Nancy Guthrie Ransom Note REVEALED, Savannah's Notable New Plea, & Nolan Wells Audio Misinformation

Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome. to the Megan Kelly show. Today marks six. months since the disappearance and. alleged kidnapping of Nancy Guthrie, which would go on, of course, this case. would to grip the nation. Thousands of. investigative hours by police, countless. tips, reporters chasing down every. nugget of potential new leads, and yet. what happened to her remains a mystery. Coming up, we will dig into Savannah. Guthri's new message on the case and why. some believe her message sounded like. her words are still being very carefully.

chosen. Why is that? Plus, we'll go. through new statements from the sheriff. about the DNA, an update on the FBI, and. finally, the text of that first ransom. note, the one they believed was real, is. out. [snorts] First though, we begin. with new information on another mystery. making massive headlines, and that is. the death of 18-year-old Nolan Wells out. of Mississippi. Someone close to this. investigation telling our show that. Nolan was not the only boy who went over.

with this group of kids that day to this. island celebrating the 4th of July to. stay behind when the first boat turned. back into shore. So, there was another. boy. We know his name. We're not going. to release it cuz we have no desire to. cause more trouble for this kid. They're. all being accused of murder. The more. names you put out there, the the another. boy's teenage years are ruined for. nothing. For absolutely nothing based on. no proof. We're not going to participate.

in that. But we do know this young man's. name and we know that he like Nolan also. stayed behind. This was not some crazy. decision by Nolan. Oh, they were beating. on me. They were threatening my life so. I didn't go. what you know. No, he was. reportedly talking to a girl. He wanted. to stay behind and talk to the girl. more. And one of his buddies also chose. to stay behind. This was not an unusual. event at all. And now more of Nolan's. friends are speaking out, putting the.

lies to the nonsense that's been. spreading about them online. At the same. time, speculation is running wild. regarding audio allegedly of some of. these teens on the boat. Now, in all, there were three boats that this group. was on when they went over to this. island. Okay? Um, we'll call the boat. that Nolan was on boat number one, since. that's obviously the most relevant one. Boat number one took Nolan, a a bunch of. others over to this island. And while.

they were anchored right off the island, it started to take on water. They. realized they had a problem. They did. They said the billagege pump was not. working. And they knew they needed to go. back in. They had to go back to the. mainland, which is what they did. Nolan. chose to say goodbye behind. So did this. other teen. And there's no question that. these teens on boat number one were. concerned about the fact that the boat. was taking on water as any of us would. be because they called in to the Coast. Guard. It was technically um a group.

called the Mississippi Department of. Mine Marine Resources, which is at least. um the one that had the audio recording. of the call. So, I don't know if they. dialed Coast Guard and that's where. their call was directed, but it was the. Mississippi Department of Marine. Resources that had the recording of the. call, which has been obtained by local. TV station WLX and other outlets. This. call was placed at about 400 p.m. local. time um to the private marine towing. company SeaTe. Okay, so that's how it.

came in hours before Wells was reported. missing by a friend and his mom. So, we've got the audio recording and it to. me sounds like a bunch of boys on a boat. worried about their boat sinking. Um, but if you are one of the people who's. been calling those boys a mur murderers. for weeks now, you might hear something. very different. You might imagine a. world in which you hear them talking. about Nolan being dead while they're on. the boat and perhaps panicking about.

covering up their alleged crime. You. might then run with that if you were an. irresponsible media outlet without. reporting that there is video out there. showing vote number one and Nolan not on. it. Not on it um at the time of the. call. So I mean that would be somewhat. irresponsible, would it not? And then we. learned some more facts about the woman. behind the alleged enhanced audio that.

she performed on this tape that has. people saying they can hear these boys. asking quote, "Is he dead?" And to say. this woman has a checkered past is to. understate what has been turned up by. her on her by independent journalist. Sarah Fields. So, we're going to talk. about all of this uh with Caitlyn. Becker. She's a reporter and host of the. New York Post's podcast, New York. [music] Post Cast. She's been all over.

this case from the start. Don't miss a. moment. Subscribe to this show on. YouTube and follow me on Insta, Facebook, and X. When you sign your. insurance policy, for some brokers, that's the finish line. Handshake, commission, buy. Then you may not hear. from them again until it's time for. renewal. But your business runs all. year, and so do the gaps and the risk. And that's why I want to tell you about. Supershore. If your company has more. than 25 employees, whether you're the. owner, CFO, or HR manager, it can be too. complex to just buy a policy online,

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All your policies in one place. Go to. supershure.com/megan. Paid for by Supershure Insurance Agency. LLC, a licensed insurance agency. Caitlyn, welcome back. Good to see you. >> Good to see you, Megan. >> So, [music] can you just set up this. audio tape that we're about to listen? This this broke and when it broke with. the local news, it broke, my. understanding is without any of the. salacious, you know, new details that. this one purveyor is now claiming she. uncovered. Well, the the initial audio.

came out unenhanced and anybody who has. ever listened to any sort of audio knows. that you can hear garble and mumbles and. something and there are things that can. be done to it to hear things in the. background a little bit clearer. That's. just on the the base. That's kind of. where we're going to set the stage here. So, the audio comes in from one of the. boys on the boat who calls for a tow. because they believe the boat is. sinking. It is taking on water. They. need someone to come and get them before. the boat goes down into 31 ft of water.

And you just hear chaos in the. background. And that is the audio that. was released by that group that you had. just mentioned there for the call. between the the boat and the tow. company. You don't hear the tow on the. other side of that. So, there are a. couple of gaps. And then this one audio. engineer, she took the audio, she didn't. run it through AI, but went through and. actually personally adjusted things to. see if she could pull out some of the. the background noise and make it a. little bit clearer. So, that kind of.

sets the stage here. >> Where was the boat when this phone call. was made? >> Pretty much according to the phone call, because you hear the you hear the the. kid actually say, "We're just off of. Horn Island." And he gives coordinates. So we could actually look up where, you. know, where those are. So they're just. off of Horn Island and they're trying to. get back to the mainland because the. boat is taking on water. So not far from. Horn Island. We know that they were at a. depth of 31 ft according to what the. boat said. >> Okay. Uh let's play the original audio.

before it was quote enhanced, I'm using. that term loosely, by this woman, Janetta Brantley, who we'll get to in a. minute. This is the original that came. in s one. >> [music]. >> CTO assistance Vicki speaking. How can I. help you? >> Hey, we're at the uh west tip of Horn.

and uh our village pump stopped working. We're going we're sinking. Can you all. please come? We have a membership. >> All right. Of course. How far is the. word coming up, sir? Can you give me a. >> Here is um Janetta Brantley who enters. in. She says she's an audio engineer and. she's going to fix it and so that we can. hear all the voices better. Hopefully in. this one we can hear them at all. And. here's what she released and saw too.

Hey, we're at the uh west tip of porn. and uh our village pump stopped working. We're going we're sinking. Can y'all. please come? We have a membership. >> Shut up. Shut the up.

Okay. So, she helpfully puts captions. below what she hears, including we. killed him. Oh, well, that's great. Uh, it's all on. tape because she says she's she has. enhanced it to where she can hear all of. this. And, um, then you have you have. Janette Brantley, this woman, releasing. a message saying, "Listen for yourself. This is what I believe is heard. Here's. ST three." That dialogue represents what.

I personally hear as an audio engineer. while processing and repeatedly. reviewing these sections. [snorts] I'm. pretty much providing it as a listening. reference, not as a declaration that my. interpretation is the only possible. interpretation. And that's important. I. want you to listen for yourself. Use. headphones if you have them. Listen. closely and decide with your own ears. what you believe is being said. But once. I separated the dispatcher from the boat. and started concentrating exclusively on. the background dialogue,

what I believed I was hearing became. extremely difficult for me to process. emotionally and I needed to take a. mental break. >> Okay. Just for the listening audience, what she allege alleges that she heard. this is these are her madeup. transcriptions. Can we cover it up? Yeah, I thought all about that. Oh, you. killed him. He's already dead. Is he. dead? Yeah. Yells Nolan. Oh my god.

Nolan, wake up. Inaudible but clear. Wyatt yells. Get wake up. Get the. up. Uh, damn it, Bart. And then, nos. no really dead now. That is what this. woman claims. She I mean, if that's. what's on this audio, everyone's getting. arrested. That's Everyone's getting. arrest. You killed him. He's already.

dead. Is he dead? Yes. Oh my god. Nolan, wake up. Wyatt, wake up. Get the. up. Damn it, Bart. No. No. Is really. dead now. That I mean, then that would. be an utter bombshell. But you tell me, Caitlyn, whether there is any reason to. believe other than Janette's madeup. audio that Nolan was on that boat and. these boys had expressed that they had. just killed him. >> At present, there's no evidence that we.

have certainly uncovered in our. reporting that suggested that Nolan was. on that boat at the time that this call. was made. As for the audio, she has her. own opinions. I have no reason to doubt. her sincerity when she said, "Listen, you know, this might not be the only. thing. Decide for yourself." She has her. own opinions. She's welcome to those. I. personally listened to it without. reading any of the captions, any of the. text several times. I heard some of the. same things, not all of the same things.

I heard clearly cover it up, but the. there was something wrong with the pump. So, there's a a very reasonable. explanation that perhaps they could be. trying to cover up some sort of whole. issue, whatever was taken on water. That. would make sense to me. Um, the BART, I. heard that. And we know that there was a. guy, another kid in another boat named. Bart that came to help them tow and get. the water out. Uh, get the up, I. heard as shut the up for the guy. that was on the phone. The stuff in the. middle was too garbled, even with any.

kind of enhancement for me to discern. what they said. They could very well. have been saying any of those things. that she suggested. It's probably they. didn't say any of that those things. I. didn't hear it either way. And she. enhanced the audio, but the audio is out. there. So that means anybody can enhance. the audio. And I have not heard any. version of that where I can clearly. understand what is being said in the. background. And that for me as a. journalist is the most important part. I.

don't know what's going. >> I'm I'm going to get to her credibility. problems in one second. They they do. exist. They are plain as the nose on. your face. Janetta does not come to this. with clean hands at all in my opinion. Um but let's just try to play the audio. so that the audience can hear it. unenhanced. >> [music]. [music].

>> CTO assistance Vicki speaking. How can I. help you? >> Hey, we're at the uh west tip of Horn. and uh our village pump stopped working. We're going we're sinking. Can y'all. please come? We have a membership. All. >> right. Of course. How far is the word. coming up, sir? Can you give me a. So, you can hear almost nothing. Uh, it's that music that we've all been. subjected to when we've tried to call. some place and been placed on hold is. muting everything. And we really have no.

idea what is being said. However, we do. know that the boys are in a situation. where they think their boat is sinking. and the billagege pump is dead. The. billagege pump is definitely dead. Um, which very well may have been what they. were discussing uh around that word. Okay. Um, here's what we know about this. Janetta. We know that uh this is per. Sarah Fields who is an independent. journalist who did such a good job of. covering the Carmelo Anthony case. She's. been on the show before. She says, "Meet.

Janetta Brantley, the self-proclaimed. audio engineer who took a Rawboat. distress call and quote enhanced it. until people started hearing phrases. like you killed him and Nolan wake up.". She has repeatedly accused Nolan Wells's. friends of murdering him and has. publicly called for their arrests. So, she comes into this with an agenda. Her. self-edited audio has now taken the. internet by storm and essentially become. a dog whistle for people who are already. targeting and harassing Nolan's young. friends. Janetta and her wife Ashley.

described themselves as serial. entrepreneurs, filmmakers, holistic. herbalists, social media influencers, and founders of a Houston-based. community called Audio Done Right. Public court records also show, Sarah. reports, that Janetta Brantley has her. own criminal history. What was it? Was. it something that might be relevant to. any of this? Well, you tell me. She. pleaded guilty to a class B misdemeanor. terroristic threat charge in Brazoria. County and was sentenced to 3 days in.

the county jail. Court records also show. she later entered in no low contender, meaning no contest plea, to a class B. misdemeanor theft charge involving. property valued between 50 and $500, for. which she again received another 3 days. in jail. The theft case file also. references a trespass warning issued to. her by Popeye's Fried Chicken in Alvin, [snorts]. Texas. Meanwhile, this person is this is. the person the internet has chosen to. trust while accusing grieving teenagers.

who have no criminal history that we. know of whatsoever of murder based on an. edited audio file that she created. herself. Before people continue. spreading spreading accusations, right. Sarah, that have targeted innocent young. adults, they should consider the. credibility of the person who. manufactured the audio that started this. latest wave of online harassment. Brantley did respond in a post on. Instagram and basically admits. everything that Sarah wrote. Says, "I've.

never hidden my past. I've never denied. it. The misdemeanor charges are more. than 20 years old. Uh they don't define. who I am today." So, she's not denying. any of that. Well, they also don't prove. that I committed any crime. They don't. because you were sentenced to jail in. both cases. So, like what why'd you go. to jail if you didn't commit the crimes? You you cut a bad deal, Janetta. Um, plenty of people like me are. incarcerated right now for crimes they. did not commit. She's innocent. She's. totally innocent. But the boys, they're. guilty without a cintillaa of proof. Got.

it. They're murderers. But Janetta. sentenced for theft and has a trespass. warning against her from the evil. Popeyes and also terroristic threats and. so on. She's innocent. Got it. Um, she. goes on to say, "Attempting to discredit. someone by digging up decades old. records instead of addressing the. substance of their work is a tactic I've. been expecting from the beginning." Oh, I mean I mean got it. I guess we're not. allowed to consider crimes that go to. honesty like theft in assessing whether. we should believe you. Janetta, that's.

not how it works, my dear. I'm sorry to. break it to you. Uh so in any event, she. claims her focus has always been on one. thing, justice for Nolan Wells. Also. attacking these boys over and over and. over again. So that's that's about where. we are on the audio. No one has any idea. what it actually says. Caitlyn and. Janetta's claim to understand it is. based clearly on her glasses that see. nothing but darkness when she looks at. these boys who were Nolan's best.

friends. >> I wish that she would have just released. an enhanced version of the audio with no. captions, no statements, no no nothing, no opinions. She's welcome to her. opinions, of course. You're welcome to. yours. I'm welcome to mine. Everyone. watching and listening is welcome to. theirs. That's the lovely amazing. country that we live in. You can have. your opinions. You can say them online, but if you're going to do this, if. you're going to enhance the audio, if. you're going to put it out there, and. then you're going to put your own spin. on it, knowing how incendiary this. entire case is, this entire mystery is,

how powerful everyone who says anything. about it becomes once it hits the echo. chamber of the internet. It just is, I. think, a little reckless to do that. I. the but the fact of the matter is the. audio is out there. The original audio, as you just played, is out there. So any. audio engineer out there can enhance it. themselves and listen for themselves. I. mean this isn't something that should we. get down the lines to you know a grand. jury or to any kind of charges being. filed against someone. You know.

Janetta's opinion is not going to be. entered into the court of law and it. that's all I keep coming back to is. everyone's opinions are so much louder. than the case itself and I think that. has become a real problem. So, um, while Janetta is calling for, let's see, um, Bart, who's mentioned on this, damn it, Bart, that's her verbate. Um, Bart,

Warren, Wyatt, Will, and Katie and her. sidekick to be called in, questioned, and quote, held accountable. Um, this poor Bart kid who's now dragged. into this has issued a statement through. his family. This is just one example of. what's being done to Nolan's best. friends. These guys were best friends. with Nolan, but they're all being tred. as murderers because he wound up dead. for nothing for we have no idea why. No. signs of foul play according to the.

sheriff and the original medical. examiner's report is still out. But the. medical examiner's report that Nolan's. family hired does not suggest signs of. foul play either. We have not seen. anything on his report that says Nolan. was attacked, shot, beaten, stabbed, anything. Yep. >> And we don't have a toxicology yet. But. here's what poor Bart's family has. released. And you can you can you can. hear their exasperation. Their son Bart. graduated from Ocean Springs High School. in 2023. He's currently a punter at the.

University of Wyoming. Um, and here is. what happened. Social media owners like. Janette, users like Janetta began. speculating about him being guilty of. murder after hearing his name mentioned. in this garbled audio. They write the. parents, the family, I'm going to read. just only part of it. It's very long. Um, Bart Jr. was among those who went to. Horn Island on July 4th. He piloted his. own boat to Horn Island. He piloted his. own boat back home. Bart Jr. uh when a. nearby boat suffered a mechanical.

malfunction, Bart Jr. gave advice and. direct aid to the distressed vessel. As. part of this, he boarded the distressed. vessel, removed its transom plug, got. back onto his boat, and towed the. distressed vessel for a short distance. While Nolan's disappearance and death. came to light, Bart Jr. freely and fully. cooperated when it did uh with law. enforcement investigating the tragedy. He sat for interviews. He answered all. the questions asked. He shared all of. his recollections from July 4th. He. compiled a list of potential witnesses, including passengers on the boat he was.

piloting to share with the. investigators. He allowed his phone to. be viewed. He shared requested. photographs and videos from that day. with law enforcement. He permitted the. inspection of his boat and GPS device. He did all of this without counsel, without requiring warrants, and without. hesitation. At no point in this process. has Bart Jr. ever been identified as a. quote suspect. But this has not stopped. people from engaging in dangerous. speculation. Nor does has it stopped. outright fabrications. With each new. name mentioned by the media or on social. media, a new mob immediately argues this. person must somehow be culpable. Facts.

are invented out of thin air. AI is used. to distort or create photographs, videos, or audio. People begin to draw. unsubstantiated conclusions, and. reckless threats follow. This week, it. has been Bar Jr.'s turn to be accused by. thousands of online strangers who do not. know him, do not know any relevant. facts, and do not care about our. community or the truth of what happened. Threats were made as recently as. yesterday on Bart Jr.'s life without. attempting to correct the record. They. say the first cease and desist and. expoliation letter is being issued.

today. That's a that's a threat saying, "Don't you get rid of a single email, text, or letter you've written since you. decided to pick on our boy." uh because. we may be suing you or ask for. defamation. uh to an online user who originated many. of the falsehoods against Bart Jr. Then. they write, "We know this moment will. pass. The truth will win out. The. reckless mob will move on to the next. big thing. But in their wake, they will. leave a grieving family, young men whose. reputations have been forever tarnished, and a community of people who used to.

smile at each other in the grocery. store, but who trust just a little less. now." Oh, and the person she's targeting. with the cease and desist, they I should. say it's the family, is not this. Janetta. It's someone named Kimbra Lee. Uh the allegation is that she referred. to Bart as one of three suspects. Um and. indeed, it appears she did that. This is. a woman who has 85,000 followers on. Instagram. She's white. She looks to be. in her late 50s. She usually posts. videos from her bed. She has a JD from.

Loyola Law School. also a comedian and. an actor from New Orleans. She wrote on. Insta after receiving the cease and. desist letter, "Sue me and you gone piss. off 31 million more people who are. already quite upset." I I'm I have the. feeling, Kimbra, they're not afraid of. you. But this is just the harassment is. out of control. >> I I agree. this particular turn in the. story. I mean, if this woman has a JD, if she went to law school, she should.

know that you don't accuse people of. crimes online or in public without any. sort of proof or backing. I mean, that's. that's something. >> and Bart Junior's not a public figure. He's not the lowest standard that's. going to be applied easy much easier. defamation. >> stand. Exactly. That's something that. you and me like journalists, we are. taught that immediately when we go into. this business or study it, how careful. you need to be with how you talk about. people when in regards to any sort of.

misdeed or crime or accusation in there. It is just it's so basic. That's. something that she she should have. learned. This one I I have been trying. to approach this case, Megan, as. objectively and impartially as I can as. a journalist because I don't want to. color my reporting in any direction. based on my own personal opinions. This. particular turn in the case to me is so. wild because the the assumption is a. random friend on another boat happened. to come over, get on this boat and.

participate in a murder and then get off. and go home. It just it doesn't make a. this does not make a lick of sense to. me. This it sounds like this kid Bart. ended up seeing a group of friends in. distress on the boat. came over. His. version of the story and the version of. the story that the kids on the boat seem. to be giving to dispatch of the toe. company is we're having this issue with. the billagege pump. He came over and. wherever it said damn it, Bart, whatever.

word it is, I don't think it was damn. it. It sounds a lot more like it was the. guy on the phone telling him what to do. with the pump so that they can stop. taking on water. That's what it sounds. like to me as objectively as I can. possibly listen to this. And people. >> trying a murder case in the public. sphere with no clear evidence of a crime. yet or maybe ever and no actual train.

Yeah. Is wild. It seems like the public. has taken sides in pro as prosecutor and. defendant in this and they are arguing. this out with absolutely no merit in in. either way. We don't know what happened. So we can't accuse people of a crime. that we don't know has been committed. That is basic. That is so so basic. That's not to say that an investigation, as you and I have talked about the last. time I you know I was on the show with.

you, the investigation from law. enforcement and even an independent. investigation if that's what the family. wants needs to happen. But people are. sitting here trying this a a homicide. case in the public sphere be thinking. that they know best and they're. completely unrelated to the case and. it's just it's so dangerous for the. people they're accusing. It's so. dangerous if we do find out down the. line something happened that all of this. will be in the public sphere making it. even more difficult to get an impartial. jury. It's just so messy. People need to.

wait for the facts. >> Yeah. I want to play this um tape. Brandon Tatum uh police officer now. former I assume because he's running. he's he's do now doing a podcast but um. he has been all over this case. He's. been doing a great job. And he obtained. video uh of the boat, the the 2B towed. boat after uh that dispatch call. And he. played it on his show. This is it. Video.

one. We're looking at it. And you cannot. see Nolan. on this boat at all. You do not see a. bunch of hugely panicked boys. You see a. bunch of boys who look like Nolan did. with their bathing suits on and no tops. and they're standing around looking at. their boat. This is It's not exciting. It's not I I I'm going to guess if. someone had just committed a murder, it. would look a little bit more chaotic on. on board that boat, but there's been.

zero evidence that that Nolan was on. that boat. And TMZ is reporting the. same. He was not on the boat. Like it's. knowable. There were witnesses who went. to help the boat who were there when the. boat got back to the mainland. Literally, no one is claiming other than. these weird internet sleuths that Nolan. was on that boat. He he was back on the. island. And we know that Nolan wound up. dead. He w his body washed up dead the. Monday after that Saturday, 4th of July,

back on the island on Horn Island. He he. was not back on the mainland. So, I. don't know why they continue to beat. this other than they they're just. throwing out empty speculation. And it's. not even like they have any evidence. like, "Oh my gosh, there is one witness. saying those boys on boat number one did. it." You know, it wouldn't make it a lot. better, but it would make it a little. better for all this rampant speculation. to be out there, but there's nothing. There's literally nothing. to have been Nolan's best friends. >> that he's been that he was on the boat. from. >> just Exactly. Right. So, now.

>> one other thing. Um, so Brandon Tatum. spoke with Warren Hudson. Um, and we. played some of that last week when you. were on. Uh, Warren had said nobody. touched Nolan's phone. Like all the guys. put their phones on board the console of. the boat. When that boat went back to. the mainland, I guess they just forgot. to give it to Nolan or he forgot to ask. But they did return to the mainland with. with Nolan's phone, among others. And. now you have Benjamin Crump speaking out.

and talking about that statement, okay, by Warren Hudson to Brandon Tatum. Listen here. ST 8. >> One of the key aspects early on here. council has been Nolan's phone uh. originally uh with why was it on the. boat? Why was he separated uh from it? There are explanations about that. Was. anything done to it? Uh one of the. friends responded to that suggestion. Let me play it for you and get your. response. >> None of us had a reason to go through no.

one's phone. I mean, there's multiple. phones on the boat. Why would we and the. and the boat was having issues. Why. would our concern be get on no one's. phone or something? I mean, I don't know. Nolan's password. None of my friends do. We had no reason ever to get on no one's. phone and look at anything. I I don't. even touch no one's phone. None of us. touched no one's phone until somebody. took it off the boat and put it in watch. truck and then no one no one touched it. until we handed it back, you know, to. the mom that was at my buddy's house. >> Council, does that square?

>> Chris Como Nolan is dead. We're going to. dot every eye. We're going to cross. every tea. We're going to look under. every rock. Uh his mother called his. phone repeatedly with no answer. That. raises questions. That's all we want to. get to is answers. If this was your. child, Chris Como, wouldn't you want to. have ask every question possible?

>> So, he refuses to deal with the the. facts as they're coming out from all of. Nolan's friends who were with Nolan all. that day. like the fact that the mother. called her son's phone and no one. answered is somehow evidence that these. guys murdered him. >> It's a big jump there. It's a pretty big. jump. And based on everything that has. been said, if the phone was on the boat, of course no one's going to answer if. your mom's calling. You're not looking. at your phone. Your phone is on the. boat. Am I of the camp that thought it.

was was strange that when he decided to. stay on the island, because I do believe. that he did, or at least the evidence. that I have reported on is found that he. did. I do find it strange that he didn't. make it a point to get his phone and put. it on another boat or bring it onto the. shore. That just struck me as weird. I. don't think it proves anything one way. or the other aside from it's an. unanswered question that I would like. answered. But yeah, the refusal to. admit, okay, sure, it's possible that.

it's totally innocent as to why that. phone was left on that boat, and it's. perfectly possible that no one touched. it. No, no one went into it. It's okay. for Nolan Wells's mother to question. everything around the death of her son. It's not okay to take those questions. and use them to accuse people of crimes. that you do not know have been. committed. And the thing that keeps. getting me back to a really frustrated. point is that we can easily answer these. questions by having the phone looked at. through an investigation. And for the.

lack of transparency from an. investigative standpoint, it's. frustrating just because I'm a reporter. and I want I want the answers. I want to. know if someone has looked through the. phone, you know, officially and said, "Yep, things were deleted. No, they. weren't." We would we would be able to. get those answers. They're easily. they're easily discovered, gone through the proper channels, done. properly. But sitting here and just. spinning, you know, a frenzy of trying. to answer these unanswerable questions. with the information that we have is.

just making it so much more difficult. for that mother to get. >> an answer to find out what happened to. her son. Cuz at the end of the day, that. is all she keeps saying is I just want. to know what happened. And that's all. that's all she wants. It seems like the. the the Ben Crump, the internet, uh Pete. Nolan's friends, even people, you know, like us talking about it. We are. discussing the, you know, what surrounds. the situation. And this poor woman just. wants to know what happened. We need the.

autopsy. I wish everyone would just take. a breath and take a step back and stop. trying to point fingers or guess the end. to the story without the information. It's not going to satisfy them. >> It's not. It's not. >> anybody. >> This is Salem. This is Salem witch hunt. territory. They the autopsy coming back. Even if it says Nolan was completely. intoxicated or maybe on something else, whatever it's going to say. They're not. going to accept that. They're going to. say somebody slipped it all to him.

Somebody took advantage of somebody, hurt him anyway. These people are out. for a witch. >> That's my concern. >> I mean, the fact that they're bringing. up EMTT Till and trying to compare this. case to EMTT Till is so outrageous, you. You know, I mean, it's like these boys. were Nolan's best friends. This was not. a an angry mob of white men grabbing a. 14-year-old boy for whistling at a white. woman with the intention of harming him. They were his best friends. They were. having a great time with Nolan. Nolan. loved them and and they loved him.

That's been the universal testimony. There there was another young man, one. of the friends, his name is Tracen. Shepard. He spoke with Brandon Tatum, too. And I don't know what his ethnic. ethnicity is, but he he looks mixed race. or he doesn't look white. And he came. out and said the following because he. said Ben Crump doesn't know what he's. talking about because he's suggesting. that Nolan was the only black kid on. Horn Island or at all in their friend. group. And this guy Tristan Shepard is. very much in their friend friend group. First of all, let me start with 11 here.

It's backstabbing from a sense of a. community that I thought I had with my. skin color. And you know, they stay so. strong together and I'm supposed to be. one of them. But I come up and I speak. and now I'm the person to blame. Now I'm. not dark enough for them. I'm not black. enough for him. >> Yeah. And then one more for you. Uh he's. talking about Ben Crump here and the. nightmare that he's injected into this.

investigation. Let's watch. >> What's your take on on. Nolan being, you know, presented as like. the only black kid in a group of all. these white boys? >> It blows my mind because it's our friend. group is not a friend group that sees. race. I've never once thought, man, they. look at me different. Man, they I'm kind. of an outcast to them. So with Crump. punching this narrative, it's wrong. >> Do you think Benjamin Crump.

being involved in this case made it. better or worse? >> 10 100,000 times% worse. We back each. other. Everybody I've seen, we back each. other. I think he's taking the grieving. parents and manipulating and turning. this and making it sound all bad. All. bad. Because nothing's like that at all. Yeah, I I I think so, too. So, where. where does that leave us, Caitlyn? Are. we are we days from getting the um the.

toxicology report back? Are we weeks? Where where do things stand? >> Typically, toxicology reports can come. back in roughly about 6 weeks. So, we. are hoping that it will be out sooner. than later. And all indications do seem. to be that we're going to get to get. those answers. I mean the concern is you. you you know you mentioned it a minute. ago and this is my main concern too that. no matter what the autopsy says even if. both autopsy the independent the state.

one say the exact same thing. If they. say homicide the people who think it was. not a homicide will not be satisfied. If. it says accidental drowning the people. who believe this poor boy was murdered. are going to not accept it. So no matter. what this is not going to go away. this. is not going to get better. Th this. family is not going to be able to grieve. his life however it shakes out. Whatever. the med the medical examiners say will.

not satisfy these two camps of people. who are screaming I want truth so long. as the truth fits the narrative that I. believe. And I think that's a problem on. >> I have to challenge you on that. I have. to challenge you on I I do not think. that there is a side demanding that. there's no homicide finding. There's. not. I think there's a side demanding. that that this be ruled a homicide and. then there's a side saying, "Let's just. follow the facts where they lead." It's. not like there's some angry mob of. whites being like, "There was no. homicide, period." Right? I think.

there's a there's a group that's not. completely driven by race essentialism. like the Ben Crumps of the world that's. saying, "Can we just wait? Let's wait to. see what the toxicology report is. Let's. let the investigation play out. >> That's I think a lot of people who are. where I am and I think where you are, >> which is there is no proof that boat one. >> left with Nolan. That Nolan does appear. to have stayed behind on Horn Island and. was alive and well when he did that and. that the boys who left on boat one.

clearly had nothing to do with Nolan's. demise. What happened to Nolan on that. island, whether it was self-inflicted or. inflicted by somebody else, is still a. mystery and must be investigated. and I. will wait and hear from the. investigators to tell me what they find. I'm sure they are interviewing Katie, the girl he allegedly was speaking to, and any other girl he was talking to. And if there was any sort of a drug or. alcohol component going on on Horn. Island, I'm sure the cops are going to. talk to every single person involved in. that to find out.

>> Yeah, this. >> and if the toxicology report shows some. level of intoxication by something, they're going to want to find out. exactly who provided those materials and. in what quantities. All of that is. typically done in any investigation. It. didn't happen in this investigation. because of Ben Crump. It's what police. do. And I think that the only side that. won't accept the official word is the. Ben Crumps of the world who have just. determined that this has to have been a. bunch of evil white people from.

Mississippi determined to kill their. black friend for no reason whatsoever. because that serves his interests, his. pocketbook, and this bizarre agenda he's. chosen to spend his life pursuing. The. rest of us are sane people. Yeah, I think the the biggest issue for. me is that two things can can be true. All the evidence seems to point to the. fact that he was not on that boat with. these boys and they went back. That. doesn't mean something nefarious didn't. happen to him on the island. And if. everyone's only looking at one narrative.

to be the answer to that, then that is. that's a problem. It's if you're. focusing on what it's the only. possibility is that he was killed and he. was killed by these people. Removes any. other question that perhaps something. happened on the island later. But we. don't have those answers and we're not. going to get them until we know how he. died, when he died. That's the most. important part to me is the when. Because if the medical examiners come. back and say that he died between 7:00. p.m. and 11 p.m. that completely removes.

the the narrative that he could have. possibly been on that boat. It does seem. that there is one kind of kind of. nefarious crazy narrative that's being. pushed that these kids murdered him and. what dumped his dumped his body. None of. the evidence suggests that to me. It. just doesn't. It really doesn't. But I'm. not show. >> exactly. And I'm not ready. to. >> But I don't believe. they will. Hopefully. >> the medical examiners would be able to. see evidence of interference with his.

body. They'd be able to see if he had. been strangled. They'd know if he'd been. stabbed, if he'd been shot, if he'd. been, >> you know, physically attacked by these. guys. The medical examiner would know. In fact, my impression is there was. relatively little damage done to his. body in the ocean versus what we would. normally expect to see. >> Um, so we we're not even dealing with. situation where he's covered in. injuries, right, that we now have to. discern whether they were caused by the. ocean or or humans. I think the only way. these people are who are calling for the. scalp of these young boys will will will.

challenge a homicide finding is if it's. determined that somebody gave him some. massive level of drugs or gave him like. a pill that was laced with fentanyl and. that person also turns out to be black, then Ben Trump will not accept the. homicide determination. Other than that, he's it's homicide or bust and he'll. never rest. I mean, he he hasn't. admitted he was wrong about the Ferguson. case, about the Jacob Blake case. He. doesn't he doesn't admit when he's. wrong. He jins up racial hatred and then.

quietly exits and cashes his check. And. it's very unfortunate Nolan's parents. got swept up in his web. All right, we. got to leave it at that today. Great. job, Caitlyn, as always. Thanks for. joining us. We appreciate it. >> Coming up next, we turn to the latest in. the mystery of Nancy Guthrie. as this. week alone, we've gotten statements from. Savannah, from Sheriff Nanos, and we. have a update for you from the FBI as. well. Don't go away. Hey, thanks for watching today's full.

episode. If you're new here, throw us a. subscribe, see what you think, stay in. touch. There's plenty more goodness. where this one came from. As always, we. really do value your feedback, so email. me, too. Megan megnancell.com. or just leave a comment down below. I do. read them. I meander over and I scroll. through and I find them very. entertaining and really appreciate the. feedback. But in any event, join the. community by becoming a subscriber, so. you miss nothing. We value your support. We may not always agree on positions,

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and get 50% off your first order. Or you. can use code Megan at checkout. That's. 50% off your first order at. sundaysfordogs.com/megan. or just use that code Megan when you. check out. Welcome back to the Megan. Kelly show. Saturday marks 6 months. [music] since Nancy Guthrie went. missing. Authorities believe the. 84year-old with a known heart condition. was forcibly taken from her Tucson area. home in the early hours of February 1st. On February 10th, the FBI released video.

and images of a masked man at the. entrance of NY's home that were. recovered from her Nest camera. It's. amazing to me that that was 10 days. after she was taken. It when when that. broke, it felt like we'd been on this. case for a month. It's incredible like. how much happened day to day to day in. the early weeks of that investigation. Since that date, however, there have. been no major breakthroughs in this. case, at least that we know of and we. believe we know the latest. Puma County. Sheriff Chris Nanos releasing a.

statement today however that says the. quote investigation remains active and. ongoing but offering little else. He did. say that presently a task force of. investigators from the Pima County. Sheriff's Department and the FBI remains. committed to finding Nancy and then he. gets into what's happening with the DNA. and I will get into that in one second. He encouraged anyone with information. about the case to call 1800 call FBI or. 88 crime. This week, Sheriff Nanos sat.

for a 30inute interview with 17-year-old. Canadian journalist Wyatt Sharp where he. expressed hope that NY is still alive. Watch. >> It's a question that I'm asked often. Um, and I guess my answer to you would. simply be this. >> I understand why people would say she's. dead. >> Yeah, >> I get that. But where's the benefit in. my believing she's dead when there's no. pro proof of of of her death in front of.

me? I understand the investigation, all. the the the the. thoughts of her whereabouts. Everybody. has a right to have an opinion and voice. it. Um, but as as the sheriff of Puma. County, as the head of the law. enforcement here in this community, what's what is the benefit of the. sheriff saying she's dead? >> If the family believes that there's hope. that there's a that there's that there's.

some chance that she might still be with. us, why should I why should I crush that. hope? >> Right? >> There's no evidence to show it. Now, nothing against this interviewer. Um, I think he actually gets some big. big names. I'm pretty sure he's. requested me to go on there as well. But. in any event, um, yeah, he has. He's. refused the sheriff, multiple requests. by many journalists in America with very.

large platforms, including Brian Enton, who's been covering this case from the. beginning, uh, and is a very straight. shooter. He won't sit with him anymore. So, why why is that? because the people. who have been covering this case very. closely would ask very informed. questions. Again, no slight to Wyatt at. all, but there's a reason he's avoiding. people like Enton, and he's refused us. from the beginning as well. Uh NY's. daughter, who of course is Today Show. host Savannah Guthrie, releasing a new. video seemingly out of the blue on.

Instagram on Monday with a message to. the person who took her mother. Watch. >> I'm coming on today with a very specific. message. [snorts] It has been months since our. mom was taken from us. Our family is in agony. We are in a. nightmare that will not end. Nothing. about our situation has changed.

We have done our part and we will never. stop looking for her. We will always. ache for her and feel that hole in our. hearts. The world can be a cruel and unforgiving. place. And I know that you have tried to. do things the right way. So I'm asking you, begging you to do the. right thing now. Make the right choice. Help us find her. Tell us where to look.

for her. I truly believe it is never too late to. do the right thing. Help us bring this. situation to an end. for all of us. No matter where we've. been and what we've done, I believe there is always a way home. Please make the right choice. You just think about you seeing her face. talking about this reminds you of the.

loss. her her mother is gone. We believe. likely taken because of her, you know, just because of who she is and the money. she has and the success in life. and. she's got to go on camera. and beg some evil criminal stranger. to return her mom to her or her mom's. body. It's just it's beyond belief.

Think of being in that position where. your mom is gone and the only way to get. her back is to beg some deranged. stranger to tell you where she is or. what he did with her body. I mean, it's. just I believe her that they are still. in agony. I believe her that her. children are feeling that that's their. nana. They have no idea what happened to. her. that Savannah has to live with the.

the guilt, unfounded, but guilt that it. was her celebrity or money success that. led to her mother being taken. And we've. got more for you on that today. It's. just I'm glad she came back and reminded. people because as we all must do, we. must do it mentally, emotionally, and. otherwise. We move on. We We have to. move on with our lives. but she's there. to remind us that Nancy Guthrie was. taken on February 1st of this year, has.

not been found, and that someone out. there knows exactly where she is. Um, there are new clues that we can discuss. today, including the DNA and what the. sheriff said in that statement and in a. longer interview. Uh, we're going to. talk about that. Fitz and Moren are here. and we'll pick it up right after this. quick break. Welcome back to the Megan. Kelly show. Let's get to the latest now. on Nancy Guthrie. Joining me now, James. Fitzgerald, co-host of Cold Red Podcast.

and former FBI Supervisory Special Agent. and Moren Oonnell, co-host of the. podcast Big City Crime, Inside the Red. Tape, and a retired FBI special agent. Team, great to see you. Thank you so. much for being here. So, I want to start. with Sheriff Nanos um talking here on. about the DNA. All right. He's been. talking a lot, just not to anybody we. recognize. Um, but he came out and said, let's see, uh, that there is so much.

DNA. He said there's so much DNA, which. we'll play in one second from the Today. Show. And then he talked about how they. are submitting it to genetic genealogy. And that is great news, right? He says, uh, hold on, we have here Sheriff Nanos. on the DNA. This is from that same. interview, the Sharp Exchange July 28th. Hold on a second. Where is that you. guys? Uh him on with Sharp about the. DNA. Yeah, it's not 30.

>> I think what you were asking is are we a. familial. >> type of DNA, not just our genetic DNA? Are we doing something to find maybe. it's the second cousin that. >> Yeah. What I would tell you is both. we're doing all of it. And that's really. the labs are doing it all. They're. looking at genealogy, but they're also. looking at specific pieces of evidence. that they're hoping to get enough. codi to say this is who we're looking.

at. >> That's good news. I mean, I'm thrilled. to know that they're actually Moren. examining genetic genealogy because we. don't know what DNA exactly they're. examining, but they must have taken DNA. for off of various places inside the. home. And if they found at least a. profile that matches. itself, you know what I mean? They can. tell, okay, this same person, we don't. know who it was, could have been Jame. Fitzgerald, but we can see that this.

same man was here uh at the bed post, was here at the front door knob, was. here at the back door, and they but they. don't have an ID. Now, we're talking. because from that they really can do. potentially genetic genealogy to find a. name. >> It is great news, and it's news that. we've been waiting for. And it also. explains this long delay between um the. actual um abduction, kidnapping, whatever we're calling it, to where we. find ourselves right now. And this uh.

type of DNA, depending on what part of. the world this person is from, can take. 6 months or even longer, but they are I. think they're going to be getting there. And a lot of it also had to do with the. fact that the DNA um was a mixture of. DNA, which as we've learned is very. challenging to separate sometimes. >> He also said that the DNA is in labs. across the country.

>> Yes. >> Um which is I mean that's good news. He. says this in sound uh sound bite 29. Let's listen. I think every day we're closer only. because we have a lot of work ahead of. us in in terms of lab work, scientific. work with DNA, uh working with not just. our lab or the FBI lab, uh but labs. across the country. All of these labs. work together. They're sharing. information. and they're trying their. best to to find a way to get the science.

to work to to put together um a variety. of different pieces of DNA evidence to. come up with a suspect. >> All right, Fitz, can you help us. understand that? Because what does he. mean? It's not just at Quanico and it's. not just at that lab in Florida that we. know he really likes and that has been. verified as a good lab by people like. you guys, but now labs across the. country. He says we in terms of lab.

work, scientific work with DNA. labs across the country we're working. with and all of these labs work together. sharing information trying their best to. find a way to get the science to work. Well, um, he he put an S on the word. lab. So, there's at least two. We don't. know how many labs are being referenced. here by by the sheriff, but some of. these labs, they do have different. levels of expertise, different levels of. experience and and and very sort of.

niched or nuanced uh uh elements of of. the DNA analysis they go through. So, maybe they felt for and they may be. taking the same um specimens of DNA, splitting them up. I mean the lab, you. know, some labs doing this and then. sending them out to other labs and let. them work work it simultaneously. That. doesn't seem to make a whole lot of. sense to me, but at least dividing up. the different uh actual specimens of DNA. samples and sending them to these. different labs that can all handle this.

in in somewhat different ways. Some may. have an international an international. focus that other labs don't have. I. worked a case in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, a murder from 1975 as a. profiler in the early 2000s. And just a. few years ago, it was solved through. familial DNA. Uh, at least one lab was. involved here. And it actually they. traced the guy, his family back to a. small town in Italy where a lot of. people then migrated into Lancaster, Pennsylvania over the years. And um, I. was glad to be a part of that case. high.

profile wasn't far off from the guy who. actually committed the murder. But these. cases are amazing in what they can do. I. grew up in Philly. The famous boy in the. box case was finally resolved about. three years ago thanks to familial DNA. and uh and genealogical DNA, all that. related. So there may be different. experts at different labs doing this. And even some of the people who do the. actual familial work, they're not like. DNA experts in and of themselves. They. know the basic processes how it works. What they're really good at is going. through birth records and media records.

and other type of census factors and. that's how they come up with a second. cousin as was referenced earlier or. someone like that and start working it. through there winnowing through all. these people and do you have like a. funny uncle or someone in your family. that always kept to himself maybe has a. familiarity with Tucson maybe here's a. you know a little bit heavy set and they. put two and two together they make it a. hundred suspects and they can narrow it. down to five they've really accomplished. something and hopefully that's where. they're going Megan. Can I add? >> I mean, Moren, I'm now of the belief.

after after having interviewed CeCe. Moore multiple times, the the godmother. of this practice, genetic genealogy, that and she told me this, you can't you. can't have a serial killer anymore in. 2026, because this practice is just too. good at identifying the G the DNA. But. but I'm now of the belief that as long. as a person leaves any DNA at a crime. scene, they can catch you. They they can. catch you. But the the question here is. did he because the sheriff just says,

"Oh, we have we have tons of DNA. We. have so much DNA." He said that um on. the Today show um like so much DNA to. sort through. In fact, we should play. that. Can we play that sound? This is. him on the Today Show. >> The Pima County Sheriff, who's been. heading the investigation, said the case. is still very active. >> We have so much DNA to sort through. We. have so much uh in terms of video. evidence to look at. So, I'm still. positive that we're going to resolve. this case.

>> Okay. So, that doesn't it's not as. promising necessarily as it sounds. because I'm sure they do have tons of. DNA from Nancy Guthri's home. You know, if I went through your home or you went. through my home, it' be tons of. different people's DNA. Whether the. perpetrator left behind his DNA is a. totally different matter. And I am. concerned now because they can't do. genetic genealogy without the DNA of the. perpetrator. Um, and I'm now concerned. that maybe they've got tons of DNA but. not the pers because it's been six.

months. How long does it take to to get. the DNA analyzed? Genetic genealogy can. take a while because that's research in. a library, you know, online with a. computer following this one. Like. basically, just for a quick refresher, let's say Megan Kelly is the. perpetrator, you know, it was it was me. I was on the doorstep and um you you get. a hit, but I've never committed a crime. So, my DNA is not in any database and. I've never gone to 23 and me or.

ancestry.com. So, my DNA is truly like. in none of these databases. But my. fourth cousin twice removed whatever. that person did go to ancestry DNA and. so there is it'll it'll link like if. they find one piece of my DNA, they. can't find anything in their databases. So, they say we have unknown DNA. We. don't know who it is. But if they run it. through their system and my fourth. cousin did go to ancestry or 23 and me. CC Moore would want me to say right now. Not really those two. Only the public. DNA um database that where you you.

choose to have your results uploaded for. public consumption. >> My heritage and Jed match. Yeah. He. >> Yes. So So he pops up there and now they. know they found a relative of the. abductor. And then you get everything. you can find out about that relative, their family trees, their mother's. family tree, the father, where they come. from, blah blah. And that's what gets. you closer and closer. Eventually, you. find your way over to Connecticut and. Megan Kelly. And then you find out, oh. my god, did she buy a ticket to Tucson. on that day? She did. Now you're closing. in. Now you get my DNA directly from a. discarded, you know, Coke bottle or, you.

know, tissue, whatever. And then then. you get the person. This is kind of what. happened with Brian Coberger, uh, too. But anyway, my whole point is I'm. worried with him saying so many labs and. so much DNA that this is still needle in. a haystack territory that they don't. have a DNA profile that they're linking. to the perp. >> Well, like any other investigation, you. have leads that go to the top of the. pile and leads that you work your way. down to after those leads are exhausted.

And I think in this case what he's. saying and hopefully what he means is. that there are a number of people that. they have done familial genealogy on and. they have proven found out who they were. because they have to go all the way back. to common grandparents and then work. their way back down this way to the. current generation and then they have to. work in concert with law enforcement to. go out and interview relatives of as you. mentioned earlier. So, it's law.

enforcement working with these. genealogologists, working with the DNA. labs. And the reason they have these. these numerous labs is because there is, for example, one lab in California that. specializes in getting full DNA profiles. from a single hair with an unrooted hair. before you had to have the root. Otherwise, you only get the. mitochondrial, which is the mother's. line of of that. So you you know there's. there are other ones that specialize in. touch DNA which is the one that Nano. sent the original um DNA evidence to and.

as long as it's an accredited lab they. have to jump through a ton of hoops to. get that it's almost like getting a. fourstar rating for a resort you have a. lot of work to do to get to that point. and so if these are accredited labs then. their protocols are very similar or the. same to the um to the protocols of the. FBI lab and they work in conjunction. with one another very very well. So, they're probably working down this list. and um they may have gotten very close.

to the actual perpetrator's DNA. And. it's not like there's only one team of. genealogologists, but even if there are. four or five teams of genealogologists, if they're going back to some tiny. village in Croatia and and trying to. find where everyone went, it it it takes. a long period of time and a lot of. manpower. [clears throat and cough]. But he didn't say it's with the genetic. genealogologist now, >> you know. He said it's at multiple labs. So much DNA at multiple labs. And I'll.

tell you guys what Matt Murphy told me, who you guys know and most of our. audience knows, but he's he's amazing. A. lifetime prosecutor. Now he's doing some. defense work, mostly for cops. Um, but. he's put a lot of bad serial killers in. jail and uh was tough to beat in a. courtroom. and he says this. Nanos. insisted on using a smaller lab in. Florida and refused the offer from the. FBI to use the lab at Quanico. No DNA. test should ever take 6 months. And in.

case involving a kidnap of a vulnerable. person, no DNA test should take 6 days. He says Nanos is a clown. And the DA, Laura Conover, Sorosbacked career. defense attorney who was elected in. 2020, is even worse. There's never been. an adult in that room. I mean, I. completely take him at his opinion. because it's it's a true he's a true. expert on all of this. He's somebody who. actually would have to get DNA to make. his cases. It does seem like it's too.

long, Fitz. It seems like my my gut. tells me that they they they don't have. anything. And that Thanos, you heard in. that long rambling s by like, why should. I say she's dead? What good does that. do? Okay, I get it. And we don't know. she's dead, so you shouldn't say she's. dead. But everything he does is just to. sort of make it look like he's still. juggling balls in the air where I just. don't believe him. >> Well, yeah. I mean, and and Megan, I was. on with you within two or three days of.

uh of the of the abduction itself. And. we thought, you know, days or a week. we'd have this over with. I can't. believe we're at the six-month point. I. think the sheriff somehow feels, you. know, quantity. supersedes quality, so to say. It's. multiple laboratories. Well, that makes. it sound like, wow, they're working even. harder and getting these and getting. these particular tests done. They really. just. >> That rings so true, Fitz. >> Quantity over quality uh is uh you know, a lot of people's excuses for making. themselves or whatever the hell they're.

doing look right. So, the bottom line is. uh I don't know if it's two labs, four, 10. uh you you know I think Moren and I. earlier tried to explain they do have. different levels of experience and. expertise at these labs but it's it's. really just find the one right lab and. and the multiple teams of these. genealogologist uh familial. genealogologists that can then take that. to the next step that's what we need. here and and again it this this may in. fact solve the case but we can be. talking about hundreds of separate. samples of DNA of of touch DNA.

throughout that house I'm sure they gave. it up and opened the house up within. three or four days and you know they. were kind of criticized for that and. they say yeah we better go back in and. start swabbing the entire house and. that's what they did and uh and these. are now all the samples they have and. they're hoping that they get the right. hit they want and they're also looking. at surveillance they said I'm not sure. if that means tag readers and other type. of technology such as that in the Tucson. area I'm hoping they're looking at all. that I was hoping that was done the. first 48 hours but so far um no dice as.

they say no resol So, here's another. update. We reached out to the FBI to. find out the status of the. investigation. They punted to the Pima. County Sheriff's Department saying any. update will come from them and kind of. suggested that's who's still running her. on this. It's not the FBI that's there. still in an assistance capacity, but. this is not an FBI case. And I think to. my impression is the FBI really wants us. to know that. like they're not going to.

say that on the record. Like we wish it. was us and it's not us, it's these guys. and we don't have faith in these guys. But I'll just tell you that's my. impression. Um that they they have a. frustration with the Puma County. Sheriff's Department. That's again my. opinion. >> You know contradicts that. >> But then they also did tell us that. there there's no more Nest video coming. out. that that piece of the. investigation is done because it was the. FBI that was the biggest contribution. that was made to this case by anybody. and the FBI found it working with. Google. Um because Nancy did not pay for.

a subscription to the Nest camera. services where they would hold all the. videos and not delete them. So this was. on just some random server the pictures. of the guy on the porch about to get. deleted. And thank God the FBI went to. Google and said, "Can can you search? Can you is there any way of finding. something?" And then they did on. February 10th, apparently right before. it was going to be deleted by the. automated system and and overwritten. So. in any event, the it's official. No more. Nest camera videos are coming out. And.

the official word is what they have is. the videos we saw of the guy the night. he took Nancy or we believe he took. Nancy and one still shot from 3 weeks. earlier. You remember it was he looked. very much the same but not identical. and the sky looked a little uh darker. >> And so there's one he he clearly cased. the joint three weeks earlier, Moren, and he came back on February 1st and. appears to have taken her. So that's. where things stand with the feds and. this investigation. >> Can I make one point? Um if you look at.

that latest video from Savannah on the. very last uh image is it says if you. have any information and it the phone. number and the contact info is the FBI. doesn't even say the Pima County. Sheriff, which I found very interesting. and in contradiction slightly to. >> what the FBI told you guys when you. reached out. >> Well, and I also wonder whether that's. Savannah. Like, who knows?

The only chance of solving this is to. have the FBI receiving the phone calls. and taking in the leads and not Sheriff. Nanos who told uh our friend, the. podcaster that he hasn't had contact. with Savannah in a long time. He said, you know, she's got my number and she's. got a she's got people, but like it does. not appear that they are doing even. weekly updates with one another anymore, which is probably why she did put out. that video. Now, I do have a couple. questions for you guys about that video.

Can we just watch it? Let's just watch. it again. Um, because there's a couple. of comments in there that we should. discuss. Here we go. >> I'm coming on today with a very specific. message. [snorts] It has been months since our. mom was taken from us. Our family is in agony. We are in a nightmare that will not end. Nothing about our situation has changed. We have done our part and we will never.

stop looking for her. We will always. ache for her and feel that hole in our. hearts. [snorts]. The world can be a cruel and unforgiving. place and I know that you have tried to. do things the right way. So, I'm asking you, begging you to do. the right thing now. Make the right. choice. Help us find her. Tell us where. to look for her.

I truly believe it is never too late to. do the right thing. Help us bring this. situation to an end. For all of us, no matter where we've. been and what we've done, I believe there is always a way home. Please make the right choice. >> Okay. Fitz, as our linguist, what do you. make of her message?

>> Uh, what is very clear in that message. to me is two words. You won. I think this person, this was a personal. grievance. The whole kidnapping of, I. should say, abduction of Nancy. And in. in in in so many words, they're actually. in specific words, a nightmare that will. not end. Agony, the ache for her, which. of course no one is denying is true on. the Guthrie family part, but she's. basically saying, "You've made your. point. You've done your thing. You.

showed us." Then she didn't use those. words. Didn't make it confrontational. Then then kind of backed off and said, "Look, please do the right thing.". Actually said that at least two times. There's always a way home. and and it's. clear now and know I'd like to believe. that Nancy is is is still alive and. among us too, but the odds are she is. not. And all they're asking for at this. point are some kind of of uh you know. GPS coordinates of where perhaps the. body could be found. Nothing more,

nothing less than that and and give give. the family some sort of closure. But. essentially, this is a a concession on. the family's part and it may have been. hinted at in earlier messages. And I I. do believe the FBI and probably the. profilers, some of them who I I trained. back in the day, uh uh you know, they. helped her craft this. She's smart. enough, clever enough. She can put the. words together herself, but they made. sure that you they were they were framed. in in certain context so not to offend. anyone. She basically pay him a.

compliment. You, you know, you did your. thing, but um but we're still hurting. You won. Please at least give us this. part and uh and we'll all move on from. there. meaning tell us where Nancy can. be found. >> I mean, it is interesting when you think. back to the fact that the. [clears throat] ransom notes were. addressed to Savannah, right? We've. learned that over the past couple months. that the two ransom notes or at least. one of them was addressed, Dear. Savannah. So, it does appear she was at. the heart of this crime. Um, she the.

daughter and her fame, her celebrity and. obsession, her money. Who know? We don't. know. We don't know what the motive was, but again, here she comes out and. Annie's not there. The brother's not. there. It's just Savannah on cam once. again saying, "We're in agony." It's. almost like to your point, Fitz. I want. you to know you've succeeded. I'm in. utter agony. You've succeeded in. seriously hurting me, and I remain. extremely hurt. Like, this is something.

the guy needs. This is something she and. the FBI have calculated will be helpful. for him to hear. Maybe not to have pity. on her, but as you put it, to believe. he's been victorious. You know, I don't know that he's going. to have pity on her because he stole her. mother and apparently killed her or. allowed her to die. But like if he feels. he's won, you know, if he feels like she. had rejected him by not responding to. his letters that she may or may not have.

received. I've told the audience before. when when I had my very bad erottomaniac. stalker um who got a very very serious. sentence for this case. Um he not only. was he contacting me directly, but he. was leaving letters for me all over. Washington DC like in National Cathedral. at the at the CIA HQ or you know outside. of it like and thinking I was receiving. these you know this is not ordered. thinking. So right so this guy may have.

felt rejected by Savannah because she. didn't respond to a letter he left you. know at ABC headquarters instead of NBC. Who the hell knows? Um, but I see where. what you're saying like it's her like. forgive the term but like showing the. belly like okay you know uncle I give up. you've you've beaten us just throw us a. bone now but you know the one thing. Moren and I'd love to get your thoughts. on all that too but we have to discuss. the phrase we've done our part we've. done our part what does that mean.

>> when I heard that and when I talked um. about it to the other homicide. detectives on my um podcast, Tim Murphy, one of the investigators said, "It. sounds to me like they paid the ransom, you know, because we've all talked. before about, we know that some of these. notes, we know about these notes that. were sent to TMZ and to other places, but we also knew that there was a. possibility that some notes made it to. Savannah um without being um um you. know, presented to these live outlets.

where everyone would hear about them. So, I'm wondering and I wanted to ask. Fitz actually, is there a chance that. she did receive information from the. offender and did in fact pay the part of. the ransom or pay what they asked and. now she said, "Hey, we've done our part. Step up and do what you said you were. going to do.". >> And since you're asking me, Moren, yes, of course there's a chance for that. We. have no evidence or information to us on.

the outside and Megan and Brianet and. other people have some pretty good. sources. I think that information would. have come across. Uh what what exactly. uh Savannah meant by we did our part, that is unclear, but at least. she's probably responding to one of. these communications that came in, hoping against hope that the person who. actually took her mother was the one. responsible for at least one of those. communications. I know we're calling. them notes, whatever, whether they came.

to Savannah, the media, uh, what have. you. But, uh, to me, it's still. inconclusive that they were in fact. ransom, legitimate ransom demands by the. person who we saw on the on the next. camera. Take uh, take the take Nancy. So, uh, so she's still saying she. responded and did everything that she's. supposed to do. So please quidd proquo. whoever you are whether you wrote these. letters notes communications or not tell. us where our mother is. That's all we're.

asking. >> But the the the interesting thing about. we've done our part. I agree with your. friend Moren the homicide detective. That's how I heard it too. Like did did. they pay did they did they belatedly pay. the $6 million like this week? And. that's why she pops up to say we've done. our part. And maybe the entire. everything around that those words was. window dressing. Like the whole purpose. of the message was that we've done our. part. But I do recall that. Harvey Levan and the other two local.

Tucson stations that received the. original ransom note have the Bitcoin. address. um like they had to provide how. you can pay us and they provided an. account into which she could deposit the. Bitcoin. It was going to be four million. if she paid by Thursday and it goes up. to 6 million if she did if she waited. until the following Monday uh 8 days. after Nancy was taken. And there was. that period where Harvey Levan because. he saw the Bitcoin address was updating.

us on whether anything had been paid. So, I don't understand Bitcoin, but. apparently if you just know the address. of somebody's account, you can check it. to see whether there's been activity in. it. And he was aware that remember when. the FBI had like a hundred bucks or 300. bucks deposited in in there to see if. the perpetrator would take it. He knew. We found that out because of him. So, I. feel like Harvey, you know, Harvey.

enjoys being on television breaking news. about this case. So, I feel like he. would have come out to say, "Holy. we we got a live one for you. You know, 6 million bucks was just deposited into. the Bitcoin account." It could be the. FBI said something's going to happen. Keep your mouth shut, Harvey. And they. would have had to go to the two local. Tucson stations to say that as well. Keep your mouth shut. Um, but I don't. know. Well, that's a lot of activity for. Harvey to stay entirely off cam. He.

doesn't seem to be able to help himself. to go out there and just titilate us. with something he knows that we don't. know. >> He's been very quiet lately. And he did also say during those. interviews you just referenced that he. talked to the FBI about potentially. ponying up the money himself to put some. money in there to see if they could. follow it, you know. So, it's not like. >> that's the other guy. That's in. [clears throat] response to the other. guy's demands. They're like, "I've seen. them in Mexico and I just want one. bitcoin to tell you where they are. Keep.

going.". >> But he's open to that type of um. undercover operation essentially. And. so, you know, there I I agree. And I I. think that for some reason, and Fitz. would obviously know better than I um. there just seems to be some feminine. component to that um second note in. particular, and Jim Clemeni would agree. also. We talked about it on our our. podcast best case worst case the other. day and it it just seems like there are. words and phrases in there that are.

meant to almost soothe um or calm um. Savannah. I I I it just seems the. phrases just seem more feminine and the. words like perished and um um I can't. think of the other ones. Buried in. nature. >> with nature. >> Yeah. It's it's just um that those are. my thoughts on that. I I think there's. so I think I don't I don't know. It. seems like like Savannah is trying to. mirror that type of um language back to.

to the author or whoever she's trying to. communicate with on her last uh video. >> Um I want to talk about Clemeni because. he actually said a bunch of interesting. things. Uh but can can I get you to. weigh in on that Fitz on we've done our. part. >> there there's some apparent quidd proquo. either either direct indirect that. somehow Savannah felt I'm sure the FBI. uh profilers assisting her assigned to. this case felt it was somehow important.

to put out there. In other words uh you. know the abductor knows that they went. to law enforcement. if that was ever a. demand, don't contact law enforcement. They did. Uh if there was some, you. know, $100, $60. So, there's something. in there embedded trying to create this. sort of uh you know, uh back and forth. give and take relationship. Hey, we. basically done uh everything we we could. do with these communications we're. getting, which again, Megan and Moren,

we don't know if they're legit or not. They're playing it safe, meaning uh. Savannah and her family, and they're. going that at least one or more of them. are legitimate. I really think, and I'll. just throw this in real quick, the. sixmonth anniversary, uh I really wish. that the sheriff's department, since. they're I guess in charge of this, would. release one or more of those. communications and let the rest of the. world see what they look like. I fought. on the Unibomb Task Force like 12 angry. men. I had to convince people, let's.

publish this manifesto. And they finally. did. And it took a few months, but David. the brother finally came forward said, "That's such a good point, Fitz. >> Said it early on, Megan. I said, >> so why does Savannah have to come out. and do this? Why where is Sheriff Nano's. and and not with again with all due. respect our 17-year-old friend up in. Canada?" Like, give us an actual real. nugget to get interest in the case. started again for the sake of the. family. As a forensic linguist, I've. said from day one, all we're doing is.

speculating on sound bites we're. hearing, you know, buried with nature. and all these type things. And it's so. hard and even the the feminine part that. our good friend Jim Clemente said, I. can't say no to that. But we don't. really have the exact words and the. context in which that is uh that is. listed. Even with the Ramsay case, we. did a TV show about that. We all got. sued. But, you know, I wouldn't say it. was a female author of the note, but I. said the the author had a uh clearly. maternal instinct. Certainly in the. writing style, your audience can take.

who they think may have written that. note. Uh but the bottom line is uh if. that exists, put it out there for. everyone to see. They can keep the last. line uh private. You know, only the. investigators know that. They can cut. something out that's very uh uh you. know, singular only to this. Let the. rest of the world see it. Maybe we'll. determine it's a non-native English. speaker. I'm teaching a a a course right. this week at Hofster University online. and these are all the type topics we're. talking about. I went over the Daniel. Pearl homicide uh or kidnapping in.

Pakistan. I'm sure you remember that. >> One of the darkest crimes ever committed. >> 2002 ultimately decapitated. There's. pictures of him old school holding up a. newspaper. I forget which English. language newspaper it was. uh but him. with handcuffs, his his arms shackled, a. gun to his head and uh you know he was. kidnapped not for money purposes, for. ideological purpose. They thought he was. a CIA agent. But you know that that. comes back from day one. If you're going. to do if you're even a poor kidnapper, an inexperienced kidnapper, and again. there are so few kidnappings for profit.

in this country. I mean we can go back. decades for the last legitimate one. Uh. why not make it easier? Why do you have. everyone speculating whether this was. real, whether this account or this. letter or this communication, something. should have been left at the scene, as I. said, or an old school Polaroid picture. sent of mom or a clipping of her hair, something like that. We've got her. We. want this money. Everything is. >> Wait, can I ask you quickly? I don't. want to get too far off topic, but we. just did a whole week of programming on.

John Benet Ramsey as part of our MK. confidential crime series that we're. doing this summer. You can find it on. our MK show feed. Um, and you can't. defame a dead person. So, and Paty. Ramsey has passed. Do you think Paty. Ramsey was responsible for John Benet's. death? >> Uh, Megan, my the lawyer, I was fully. indemnified for the CBS when we did a. show with Jim Clemente back in 2016 with. Dr. Henry Lee and a bunch of others. We. were sued, fully indemnified, deposed. for two days. At the very end, settled. out of court, not a penny out of my.

pocket. Lawyer said, "Fits, anything you. say afterwards, you got to hire your own. lawyers." So the CBS special will. decline. Well, I will fill in out there. >> CBS concluded in that special that it. was the son, right? That it was Burke. Ramsey. That's how the. >> And then he he's the one who filed the. massive lawsuit. And the theory by some, including the grand jury, we believe, as. it turned out, was that Burke Ramsay, her nine-year-old brother, killed her. and that Paty and or possibly um John.

Ramsay covered it up because they didn't. want anything to happen to their son. with like a fake ransom note to But. anyway, that's that's not where our. series landed. um because John Bonnet. had some stranger's DNA on her and they. they've just never been able to match it. to anybody. But there is unknown male. DNA in John Benet's underwear on the. garat uh that was used to strangle her. There's a bunch of evidence that we just.

haven't been able to through genetic. genealogy or otherwise find it. And and. um you know they're they're trying to. test that right now. They're trying to. do genetic genealogy on that tiny tiny. DNA right now. And um you know, Mr. Ramsay is fighting with the Colorado. authorities to get the last remaining. specs of it so that it can be tested. through genetic genealogy and they're. not giving it up. That was the last. update we had. Okay. Um we're going to. take a break. We're going to come back. I think we're saying goodbye to you. guys. Thank you so much for all of your.

expertise and help on this case. And we. bring back our other experts that have. been with us from the [music] beginning. right after this. Don't go away. High. prices might be here to stay. gas, groceries, insurance. If you're a. homeowner, you may have thought, "Should. I refinance to pay off this credit card. debt, which is so high?" Well, then you. second guess yourself because of that. low mortgage rate you currently have. Listen, that low rate, it may not be. saving you if you're drowning in credit. card interest at 25% or more. If you're. only making minimum payments, that debt.

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ET/MGancell. for more. Disclaimer: NMLS number. 182334NMLSconsumerac.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.327%. for well-qualified borrowers. Call for. details about credit costs and terms. Visit americananfinancing.net/megan. Kelly. Average savings based on. borrowers who save over $199.99. Welcome back to the Megan Kelly show. We're going to continue with our [music]. search for Nancy Guthrie and the and the.

latest in the case looking for her with. Chad Ayes a former SWAT team leader, Will Gettys, elite bodyguard who has. over 30 years of experience as a as a. security expert and James Hamilton, a. former FBI supervisory special agent. Gang, great to see you all together. again. The latest that we have, we were. just began discussing it with Fitz and. Meen on the ransom notes is we do now I. gotta hand it to this U Brianna Whitney. because she used to work for one of.

those two Tucson news outlets that did. get to see the ransom notes. And while. Sheriff Nanos won't release them, still. 6 months later, it's like come on, you. know, like what are you doing? Um she. now works for Crime Junkie, which is a. podcast network full of great two true. true crime shows and she's given it up. So, God bless her because it's. interesting and she's seen them. She. says she has seen them with her own two. eyes, which is credible because she was. the reporter for one of those local news. outlets that did receive both notes. And.

here she is. Earlier, we had played her. describing the second note and we. analyzed it and now she's released what. was in the first one. Uh, here it is in. SAT 22. This is how it [music] started. Hello, Savannah. We have your mother, Nancy. She is safe but scared. She will be held. for ransom and once payment is received, she will be released unharmed. We will. be holding her for a maximum of 7 days. [music]. So they go on then to demand the the.

millions of dollars and they give the. two deadlines. [music] But what is key. here I think is that the money was. demanded in USD. [music] So US dollar. typically if this is coming from. somebody here, you don't say that. You. don't say that. This is what it went on. to say. Once payment is received to the. Bitcoin address below, she will be. released within 12 hours of deposit to a. [music] safe drop off location back in. Tucson. If the payment is not received. by the last deadline on Monday the 9th.

at [music] 5:00 p.m., she will be. killed. Your mother is aware of this and. her life is in your hands. [music] It is. in the best interest of everyone to have. this completed as soon as possible. You. will not be able to contact me from here. on out. There will be no negotiation. Do. not play games. [music]. Law enforcement will not be able to help. you. It's fascinating, right? I mean, it's. fascinating to actually hear it read and. the fact that it starts with, "Hello,

Savannah. She's safe but scared. 4 million blah. blah blah." Then we see the part that. Harvey Leven had been referring to for a. while about how he believes that they. have her within the Tucson area because. he says she'll be released within 12. hours of deposit to a safe drop off. location back in Tucson if we get the. money. Basically, her life is in your. hands in the best interest of everyone. to have this completed as soon as. possible. You will not be able to. contact me. Do not play games. Law.

enforcement can't help you. So, your. impression in response to all of that? I'll start with you on it, Chad. >> I'm still not buying it. Again, the USD, uh, we talked about that early on. I. still personally believe this is some. type of organized crime ring, a scam. trying to solicit money to the family. Um, again, some of these your other. guests have a lot more expertise on like. these complex kidnapping cases. Um, but. you know, from an outsider with law.

enforcement background, I just it seems. too much of like someone just trying to. get money and take advantage of a family. going through the worst time of their. life. >> Well, you sound a little like James. James has been our skeptic on the notes. from the beginning. But wait, before I. get to James, Will, I want to talk to. you because you you actually are. somebody that we all need to call Will. God forbid somebody gets kidnapped out. We know because Will's master of the. dark arts who actually will just get. your family member home. don't ask. questions for a small fee. You'll be.

reunited [laughter] with your loved one. ideally and he has to read notes like. this and figure out whether he should. credit them or not. So now that you've. heard, you know, directly from somebody. who's seen it what's in it, what's your. takeaway? >> Okay, Megan, firstly, thank you for. having me back on the show. Um secondly, I the note itself seems reasonably well. considered and well structured and. certainly one of the the biggest. challenges uh on any kind of um. kidnapping for ransom and particularly. resolving any kind of ransom that's been.

demanded is firstly how that ransom is. delivered and secondly is where the. actual hostage is going to be released. to. Now the two parts that are well. considered. Firstly, Bitcoin uh and. secondly that she would be delivered. into the local area which which for. myself I see that as pretty convincing. and uh and well considered. The only. element we're missing here, and I would. love to sit down with that journalist. and find out whether she knows the. answers to this, is how was that ransom.

demand delivered in the first place, because that's going to tell me an awful. lot about whether this is professional. or whether I would agree with Chad. >> Well, we do know. What do you mean? We. know we know it's uploaded to TMZ's tip. line and then we know the. >> Yeah. And and also the two local. stations have tip lines, you know, like. a news organization. A lot of news. organizations have these where you can. go online and you can upload your tip. And we also now do I actually didn't. know this, but apparently you did have.

to submit an email in order to use one. or all of those tip lines. And the. person who did upload it did provide an. email. And now just in preparing for. today, um I learned that it is, this is. from CBS reporting earlier in July, that. um a Gmail address was entered as the. contact email and addressed to Savannah. Guthrie. The family worked with the FBI. to craft a response, but there was no.

email back. So clearly this is new. >> They did try to email that email and. didn't get a response. >> So that so that's really interesting. I. thought this was uh these were. potentially ransom demands which had. been made through various other. conduits. Uh certainly you know we we. discussed the TMZ ones before. So there. there are two parts to this and I think. uh James would be able to answer. certainly the the federal side in terms. of the investigation and the. relationships with say Google to be able. to interrogate the Gmail account. But. setting up a burner Gmail account that.

to me sniffs of someone that's not so. organized. Uh I don't I don't want to. give any viewers uh ideas of how to. deliver a ransom demand by a more secure. secure route, but I certainly wouldn't. be using Gmail because Gmail even if you. set up a burner account, you use various. VPNs, they are reasonably traceable even. if it is just a singular account that. they've set up for the purposes of. delivering this uh this ransom demand. >> All right. But wait, there's more to the.

first note as we all know because the. person convinced the FBI that they had. Nancy apparently. >> Yeah. >> By saying specific things about NY's. home and Brianna Whitney gets into that. too. And you know, I mean, good honor, 6. months for the love of God. Like just. tell us what was in the note. And here. she does watch. And then at the very. end, they basically give what we learned. [music] in in the press conference at. the time that there was something only. the abductor would know, [music] which.

was she had a white smartwatch that was. on the floor near her bed, like at the. foot of her bed, and then there [music]. was this flood light that was destroyed. in the backyard. So those two clues are. what gave the FBI kind of the. wherewithal to say this is not a hoax. At least they didn't think so. Or they. were investigating it as possibly. legitimate. They [music] still are, by. the way. >> Okay, >> now that's I mean, >> yeah, >> that's a tough one because broken flood. light on the outside of a house is.

something anyone going by could see. That's that is why would they choose. that? But look, you know, watch at the. foot of the bed is good. That's a good. one. Like, >> yeah, >> white Apple Watch is not that great. This is I have an Apple Watch on now. It's not that great because we have seen. pictures of Nancy wearing the white. Apple Watch. We we've documented that on. this show prior to her abduction. Um. here's one. Uh but there's multiple. shots of her wearing the Apple Watch. with the white band. So you could have.

gleaned that as [snorts] somebody posing. as the kidnapper just trying to get. money from the family. But if they said. it was at the foot of the bed on the. floor and it was even you James, you got. that would that would get your. attention. >> Sure. Hey, good to see you. it it would. get my attention. >> Good to see you, too. >> Um, it again, you made the great point. about the flood light and anyone could. have seen that. Um, again, if I going to. go through all this trouble to kidnap. this lady and try to get paid, I'm.

certainly not going to send a email to a. local news outlet or TMZ in the hope in. big [clears throat] H that they're going. to get it somehow to Savannah and. Savannah's actually going to believe me, you know, with all the other fake uh. ransom emails that are coming in. Um, I'm not going to do that. I'm gonna. reach out to her directly and I'm gonna. tell her what I want and how to get her. mom back. U, I like the note. I thought. it was pretty good. It was pretty. ruthless. Um, gave no kind of, you know, way to go back and forth. I thought that. was pretty good. But again, there are a.

lot of great writers out there. Um, I. don't know. It's It's interesting. I I. don't know. I mean, I think it's okay. that the bureau. >> Okay. Well, that's okay. Now, you're. raising something very interesting that. I hadn't even given any thought to. Was. the first note written by the same. person as the second note? Because there. is uh the way you say that pretty good, pretty ruthless as you know the greats. are supposed to be. Um the the second. note totally different totally like soft.

and sorry. Here's Brianna describing. that one. Same thing on the Crime Junkie. podcast. We heard her do this in June. and we all came on and analyzed it. because she was she just posted. something on Instagram revealing it for. the first time. But here she is laying. it out in a little bit more detail and. in on Instagram in June. Let's watch. >> I have spent months and months covering. the Nancy Guthrie case, boots on the. ground. And in my former role before I. came to Crime Junkie, I was made aware. of what these ransom notes said as I was. reporting on the case. I've seen them. with my own eyes. So I want to actually.

provide more context as to what that. second note said. The way that this note. was written, it's written as we like we. didn't know this as if it was some sort. of team or whoever was involved in this. It said, "We did not fully grasp the. seriousness of her physical condition.". It went on to say that they never. intended to hurt her during all of this. They continued and said she perished. shortly after she was taken. They. believe that it was heart related. And. then what the reports were confirming.

earlier today that she was buried with. nature. And maybe the most important. part of the second ransom note, it said, "Nothing you could have done could have. changed the outcome. We are truly. sorry.". Now, that matches exactly what. NewsNation is reporting. NewsNation is. reporting, quote, "We did not fully. grasp the seriousness of her physical. conditions, plural. We never intended to hurt her. Period. This was not our intention.

Which is redundant. It's kind of. interesting. We never intended to hurt. her. This was not our intention. She. perished shortly after she was taken. Perished. Odd. We believe it was heart. related. They're speculating as to the. cause. She is buried in nature. Not with. nature as Brianna reports, but they they. report she is buried in nature now. Nothing you could have done could have. changed the outcome. Like comforting. Again, not ruthless. It wasn't your. fault. Well, you couldn't have done. anything. We are truly sorry. We are.

truly sorry. There's been a debate about. whether there was an apology. News. Nation reporting that there was. Now, I. got to hold you guys over because we got. 10 seconds in this hour of SiriusXM. It's coming to an end, but we will pick. it up right after this quick break. Don't go away. We will tackle this note. versus the first [clears throat] 6. months after Nancy was taken. We wouldn't be celebrating America 250. if it weren't for a strong foundation. set by the framers. Hamilton built. America's financial foundation on the. principle of sound, stable money, a. principle later embodied by the gold.

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build your foundation with gold, the. gold standard. Text MK to the number. 989898 today. Welcome back to the Megan. Kelly show. We're back now with Chad. Ays, Will Gettis, and James Hamilton. James, sticking with you for now. So, how do we go from she will be killed. Her life is in your hands. Do not play. games. Law enforcement will not be able. to help you to. it never intended to hurt her. It wasn't. our intention. She perished. We believe.

it was heartrelated. She's buried in. nature. We're truly sorry. Nothing you. could have done could have changed the. outcome. >> Well, I think Chad's right. It sounds. like you have a, you know, a man and a. woman writing these letters. You could. have had the man write the first letter. and the woman. It sound we we said this. last time. It sounds like a woman is. writing this second letter with just, you know, the maternal kind of apologies. and the sadness, what have you, which is. far different than this this first. letter, which is very business-like and. very direct. I I would just like to say. real quick that when you were reading.

that, I was kind of laughing when he. said, or you know, I think it's a he, uh, she will be deposited within 12. hours. And 12 hours is some, you know, oh, well, that tells us something. Do do. you know how far 12 hours is from. Tucson? That's Sinaloa, Mexico, or Salt. Lake City, Utah. So, it really doesn't. tell us an awful lot. Okay. Like, big. deal. Okay. 12 hours. He could be. anywhere or she could be anywhere. Uh, that's my thought on it. >> Go ahead, Chad. >> Yeah, I I still go back on. They're so.

totally differently written. I think. they were, like we've all said, I think. they were written by two totally. different individuals. Um, and if it was. completely serious, um, why, you know, and if we thought. there was more to it, I don't understand. why the Puma County Sheriff's Office at. this point, 6 months in, why are they. not the ones releasing this? Why are we. having some re, you know, a phenomenal. reporter being the one that's happened. to release this? the more you know.

without jeopardizing this investigation, the more the people in that area and. surrounding areas can know it may. trigger that one next tip that is. holding this investigation back. >> Yeah, it's up to him to spur interest in. the case. I mean, that's typically the. role of the lead investigator who will. think of like what can I give the public. to get it's not just to get news. coverage. It's it's to get tips. It's to. get something that actually might help. solve it. Will can we talk about the the.

pronoun issue in the letters because in. this first letter. >> uh the the ransom demand we have your. mother Nancy um we will be holding her. for a maximum of seven days uh. if the payment's not released uh she. will be killed she's aware her life is. in your hands then he says you will not. be able to contact me from here on out. So we we and then the second note, we.

didn't fully grasp the seriousness. We. never intended to hurt her. This is not. our intention. We believe it was heart. related. We are truly sorry. But there. was that one slip. You will not be able. to contact me from here on out. What do. you make of that? >> Well, I'm going to draw from that uh a. couple of different things. And I'm also. going to draw from what James and also. Chadger said, which is I believe that I. agree with them that it was a male and a. female who wrote both separate notes.

that the the use of the generality of we. is a standard. You know, nobody if it's. an individual that's kidnapped Nancy, they're never going to want to indicate. it's necessarily them. The second thing. is the tonal difference between the. [clears throat] two notes. And the third. thing which is really interesting. because I'm seeing current ransom. demands being sent through and these. quite often are put through AI. So. they're cleaned up, they're tidied up, they're improved to make sure that. grammatically and spelling wise they're.

they're they're formulated in a better. way. This would appear to me to indicate. potentially an age category for the. kidnappers as well and perhaps. individuals that wouldn't be so offay. with using for example uh AI to clean up. that ransom demand to try and remove any. identifiers or anything else that would. potentially highlight who they might be. or where they may be coming from. So. there there are some interesting aspects. here. They're they're wellformed. the.

the 12-hour distance or time delay in. terms of returning Nancy. Well, yes, of. course, they they're never going to want. to give any kind of geographic position. of where they may be bringing her from. and delivering her to. So, yes, they're. going to use the the widest uh potential. circumference from Tucson uh to to. actually return her, but I think the. notes in themselves tell an awful lot. more than just what the content is. I mean, is there any chance, James, that. this actually is just one guy? It's.

Porch Man. And, you know, notwithstanding the fact that he propped. open the back door of NY's house, which. many of us believe he did to allow a an. accomplice to come in. I shouldn't have. said us. I don't know what happened. I. don't have a belief on that, but a lot. of people believe that he propped open. the back door of NY's house so that an. accomplice could come in. Um cuz we. believe he entered through the back door. after not succeeding to get in that. front door. But we do know from leaked. reporting that the back door was propped.

open with like a planter or something. And that's weird because he exited with. Nancy out the front door. We know that. from NY's blood all over the front. stoop. So in any event, why would you. prop open the back door? Like why would. you do that other than to allow a buddy. to come, etc.? In any event, is it. possible that notwithstanding that this. is one guy and he just slipped there by. saying me, whereas every other pronoun. was we to sound more ominous, more. threatening, like more serious, like. somebody she's going to have to bargain. with or Savannah and her siblings are.

going to have to bargain with. >> Sure. Yeah. You know, it's possible. Uh, like I was saying the other day to. somebody on these theories, you know, as. an investigator, you know, certainly you. can have a theory and I think we all do. here, but I, you know, have to be very. focused on what the evidence is saying. to me. It's not you people because what. what can happen is you can fall in love. with your theory. You can fall in love. with what you believe. It's your. narrative, your painting in your head. And as an investigator, that's terribly. difficult to do. And you shouldn't do. that, by the way. You should let the.

evidence, you know, take you to, you. know, the subject. And I think that's. the challenge with all this is that we. are, you know, theorizing and we don't. have all the information. Um, sure it. could be the guy on the porch writing. these letters. It could be his. girlfriend, his wife. You know, I think. that that's certainly reasonable. One of the biggest mysteries around. these notes, if we believe they're real, these two ransom notes, is what. incentive does a kidnapper have before. the ransom has been paid? And even.

before the ransom deadlines have expired. because Nancy was taken on a Sunday in. the wee hours of Saturday into Sunday, the ransom note came on Monday. They. said, "You've got till Thursday and. we'll give for 4 million we'll give her. back. But if you miss that deadline," it. was very weird. If you miss that. deadline, we'll give her back as of Monday if you. pay 6 million. So, you got four million. on Thursday. The price goes up to 6. million if you wait till Monday. This. this note, this first ransom note came.

after the expiration of the first. deadline, but before the expiration of. the second deadline, saying. she's dead. Like, sorry, guess what? She. died. What would the incentive be by the. actual kidnapper or frankly by anyone. else to say that. >> before [clears throat] the deadlines are. expired? You're still hoping you're. about to get $6 million. You've since. your initial communication. You've been. your threatening, you know, self. I.

don't get that. Does anybody have a. thought on that? >> I do. [laughter]. >> Go ahead, Will. I mean, my my my feeling. on it is it's again another indicator of. [clears throat] a kidnapper who doesn't. do this as a business. This is not a a. an industry that this individual's been. involved in or these these people have. been involved in before. Uh there's a. certain degree of professionalism, but. to be honest, there's a lot of. amateur-ish approach. And and one of the. things which is absolutely key is.

there's so many different factors that. can influence even a willing. satisfaction of a ransom. And to put. such a defined deadline usually is an. indicator of someone who is fearful is. frightened of potentially getting caught. or discovered uh or captured in some. shape or form. So you know them putting. in a defined deadline of you don't. deliver by this date then the hostage is. going to be dead. there is a possibility. they may have opened up channels to say. yes okay uh we have to extend it because.

more often than not when we're. negotiating a kidnapping the first thing. that one will use is referral and. referral will be that we need to try and. get hold of the money uh we need to. aggregate that money together to be able. to pay it particularly when it's a very. large ransom and one of the reasons why. many ransoms are settled Megan at a far. lesser figure than the original demand. is because of the availability of the. cash and being able to do. So, uh, you. know, from our point of view, unlike the. other chaps here, you know, my job is is.

not to capture or apprehend the. kidnapper. It's to get the hostage back. So, you know, I I don't care about who. they are. I just want to get the hostage. back and I will pay the ransom by. whatever means possible. But because of. the publicity that this garnished, I. think these two were absolutely. terrified. and whether unfortunately. Nancy expired, which I I I have a. horrible feeling that unfortunately that. is the case and I think we all do. Um I. think the fact is that they were. panicked into trying to get this done as. quickly as possible, not knowing.

necessarily her health conditions until. that she was actually in their care. There was there was at least one. intervening event between the original. ransom demand and the. she perished uh note and it was the. family's response. Right. I'm I'm trying. to make sure it was 47. In 47 47 we have. Savannah in her first video talking. about the potential about the ransom. note. We believe and I think this was.

after number one. and before number two because after. number two we got we got the we rece the. super sad video where she was like we. received your message we understand. we want to celebrate with our mother we. will pay remember she she had said that. I I think this is the first response we. got in 47 is it Steve? Yeah, let's watch. 47, which was before the expiration of. the second deadline and we believe.

before the second ransom note came in. We too have heard the reports about a. ransom letter in the media. As a family, we are doing everything. that we can. We are ready to talk. However, we live in a world where voices. and [snorts and clears throat] images. are easily manipulated. We need to know.

without a doubt that she is alive and. that you have her. We want to hear from you and we are. ready to listen. Please reach out to us. >> Okay. that. Yeah. James Hamilton's shaking his. head. No, because. now that if you're a fraudster. and you hear that, you're like, I don't.

have a body. I don't actually have. Nancy. Um, I think I need to come up. with why I can't produce the thing. they're demanding before giving me the. millions. Like, whoops, she died. So, sorry. But I'd still like to get paid. Like then it would start to make sense. to me. James, >> yeah, you you you actually answered it. when you when you initiated the question. to Will when you said, "Who does that? Why would you do that? That doesn't make.

any sense, right?" Yeah. You're Well, the people that do that are fraudsters. That's what they do. And it always is. urgency. It always starts with urgency. And the first letter was, you know, there's nothing you can do. You must do. this now. It's all on you. if you know. if when she dies, it's all on you. Okay, that's all fraud tactic 101. You got to. make it about it's urgent. It's all on. you. You got to get and law enforcement. can't help you. Every fraud starts that. way. It has to be done right now and. don't you dare tell law enforcement. And.

then here we are. You nailed it. They. are saying something. They're probably. responding to this first note. And now. that that people are saying, "Oh crap, we don't have the body, but let's get. something out of it." And then they come. with, hey, you know, that first. expiration date, we were just kind of. kidding about that. Now, here's another. one. And that's fraud 101. They're. trying to get 10 bucks. If 10 if they. get 10 bucks, that's better than what. they had when they started, right? Which. was nothing. And and the last thing I. would say is I I I didn't recall this. the first time I saw that video, but. Savannah is saying, you know, we've seen.

the reports in the media of the ransom. demand, you know, and Will Will's been. doing a lot of these as I have with. these kidnapping. I've never worked a. kidnapping where the family learns about. the kidnapping ransom concerns through. the media. It never works that way, right? The kidnapper contacts the family. or the person who is eligible to pay. And certainly it's going to be Savannah. named in the note because she's the rich. one. I mean, that's doesn't take a. genius to figure that out. If they had,

you know, named the brother or the. sister, people like that's weird, you. know, but naming Savannah, that's an. easy one. My kid could figure that one. out. >> 100% agree. Okay. But how did they know. where NY's Apple Watch was in the room. >> the morning after she was taken? >> Yeah, that's a great question. If if I. had confidence that this, you know, crime scene was 100% secured, that these. cops, no one talked, that whoever was. involved and had, you know, information. that no one has said a word to anybody,

I'd feel better about, you know, okay, there might be some credibility here. But, uh, I I'm not. And the white watch. again, do we know for a fact that it. said, you know, by the foot of her bed? Or is there some video out there? Or is. there someone who wouldn't have known. that the watch slipped off? Or maybe. they just took a guess and got right. That could be again. >> Or maybe maybe I forgive me, but like. maybe it's a cop. Maybe the person. writing the letters. >> well.

>> is law enforcement. Again, like we were. saying at break, you you don't really. until you get the the human body back. and we have some clarity. We don't want. to rule out anything, okay? Anyone, anybody, anything. So, we we definitely. want to keep our options open and keep. our eyes open, right? Um I that's why I. didn't like that that they cleared a lot. of people in the beginning because I. unless I have Miss Guthrie back, a body. or the live body, I I can't be ruling. people out right now.

I think that's what's like if you if. we're going Chad on if we if we go down. the perpetrator like somebody took Nancy. that that's real that we know. >> but we don't know that that's the same. person as wrote these ransom notes and. if we go down the lane of these are two. different people the person who took. Nancy never wrote the note for whatever. reason she died he panicked who knows. but someone decided to write a note and. take advantage of this situation.

You can't rule out law enforcement who. would have been in the room. I mean, I. don't think it was a cop. I doubt it, but I'm just saying we're keeping our. open minds. You can't rule out family. Like somebody, it would have to be. somebody, I think, who was in the room. Like if that if that location of that. watch was good enough to convince the. FBI the person had been in the room post. abduction, then it would have to have. been somebody who had access to the room. either right before the abduction and. they just noticed the watch was there or.

right after the abduction. And that. would narrow the pool considerably to. the people who could have written that. note. >> Well, one, do we know if the both of. these notes came from that same Gmail. address? Has that been confirmed? >> Yes. That well, we know that both of the. notes had the same Bitcoin. deposit numbers. So, whoever they they. do believe it was the same person. because that's a very individualized. thing to know like what the Bitcoin. address is. Well, I almost interrupted.

earlier because for the first time I. picked up on something on that still. footage and that was that the. perpetrator had put the flashlight in. their mouth, right? And I know we'd. mentioned it, but like the thought of. just somebody with no experience. whatsoever thinking to put the. flashlight in their mouth to hold it to. to try to conceal that Ring doorbell is. odd. But you're exactly right. I mean a. small type of flashlight like that. I. mean this is something that not a lot of.

people like obviously um will being in. the executive production space, James. working EP stuff, myself uh working EP. like we keep small flashlights on us at. all times right with our client getting. in and out of cars. So, could this I. mean, this is the first time and I don't. think we've ever discussed the potential. of this possibly being. someone affiliated with the case, but. [clears throat] nothing's off the table. here, guys. I mean, nothing none of this. is off the table. We do know, we were.

talking on break, >> a lot of people moved off the. possibility if it was ever out there. when they saw how he had his gun, right? Because most of you guys who have. carried a gun for a living. >> kind of laughed at how he had that gun. on him. Yeah, >> which is again, could that be something. to throw throw somebody off? I don't. know. None none of these theories are. out of the question. We were talking on. break going back to, you know, Tomaso. and them and all the family passing. their, you know, I reported that uh from.

a federal source out there that they. passed with flying colors. Listen, I. know plenty of people who can pass. polygraph exams. After they were. cleared, the FBI was back at Annie and. Tomaso's house taking photographs and. conducting an investigation in there. Um, why after they cleared with cleared. them with flying colors, were they back. in there still taking photographs? I mean, it would be such a bombshell if.

the family like if someone in the family. were extorting. Savannah for a ransom demand and had. nothing to do with the kidnapping that I. mean that would be so mind-blowing. Will. >> um I think Pandora's box is already. open, Megan, so we might as well look. into the contents of it. You know, the. chaps and I were discussing during the. break uh a number of different factors. and particularly how this case had been. managed by the local sheriff's. department uh how the crime scene had.

been opened and released way too early. Uh the fact that there have been so many. people discounted as potential suspects. And I think as James said, I completely. concur uh that until you actually have a. body, you can't discount anybody. Now. let's throw into the mix and maybe into. the forum for discussion uh a couple of. factors. Firstly looking at those ransom. de demands um and that the tonal. difference between one that we would. perceive to be in more of a male voice.

and the other one in a more female. voice. Uh let's also add into the mix uh. the old mantra in our industry which. I've I've certainly seen in practice. over the last 30 years Megan of the 70%. rule which I've mentioned to you before. which is in 70% of kidnappings there is. someone connected to the hostage uh in. some shape or form whether it be a. family member or whether it be an. associate a friend but someone who knows. uh the victim or the hostage and then. very lastly uh there have been and I.

again I discussed with the guys in the. break. Uh there have been cases where. you have one successful sibling who's. done immensely well and exceptionally. well financially and monetarily. Uh and. there is another sibling that hasn't. done so well and is perhaps uh a little. bit embittered about it and has chosen. to kidnap another family member uh to. basically uh then try and extort from. that other family member. Uh I wouldn't. discount anything right now. That's for.

sure. You know, I wanted to I wanted to pick. up on the discussion we were having. about the fraudster injects urgency. right from the top. And um I've made. mention of this before, but we had uh a. whole week of specials in June of 2024. We called it fraud week. And we told. various people's fraud stories where. they were actually defrauded or an. attempted fraud occurred. and we. culminated that week in my own attempted.

fraud against me and my family. Um, it. was really perpetrated. Patient zero was. my mother-in-law, my husband's uh, elderly mom, who got a phone call from. what she thought was her hysterical. daughter, Doug's sister, >> saying, "Mom, I've been in a terrible. car accident, and I'm I've been arrested. because we were arrested for DWI, and my. partner, Brad, that's her, you know, basically her spouse, has been arrested. because he punched a cop." and we're in.

the prison right now, the jail, and we. need we need bail, and this is the. number of my lawyer. Please call. >> All right. So, we get a call from Doug's. mom saying, "I spoke to Diane. She's in. jail." DWI. They don't even drink, but. you know, you never know. It was COVID. It was like a Everybody was doing weird. things. And we're like, "Holy she. you know, this is the mother who said, "I talked to my own daughter." We didn't. even think to question whether that was. in fact Diane. And we were well down the.

lane of paying the money to bail them. out, $17,000. before it dawned on one of our cabal to. go buy Brad and Dian's house. And there. they were sitting there totally. oblivious that the whole family had been. running around trying to bail them out. of jail because of this alleged. incident. It was all a lie, but it was. an elaborate lie. And that, you know, it. started with the urgency. They had an. actor, a female actor who pretended to. be Diane and convinced Diane's mother.

that she was talking to her own. daughter. She said she had broken her. nose in the car crash and so she sounded. a little and she was hysterical. She was. hysterical crying and she's dealing with. an 86-year-old mom at this point. Anyway, there's that on the urgency and. then there's then there's this which we. again we think this is a separate. person, but we don't know. the the. second round of emails to Harvey Levan. from the person saying, "I'm not the. kidnapper, but I know him. I've seen. him." And I do think this is very.

telling. So, this this person chimed in. with I I know where they are. Um the. TMZ, this was reported by um by Harvey. saying, "We received a note just before. 5:00 a.m. Pacific time. The sender. claims they've unsuccessfully tried to. reach Savannah Guthy's brother Cameron. and her sister Annie by email and text. If they want the name of the individual. involved, then I want one bitcoin to the. following wallet. Time is more than. relevant. They include a legitimate.

Bitcoin address and it's a different. address from the one that was in the. original two notes. Then they say, um, okay. So, so then they say, uh, time is. more than relevant. Then they get a. second letter from the friend. Um they. say TMZ, okay, received a second email. from the same person who complained, "I'm not being taken seriously." He. says, "Uh, one thing he makes clear, the situation. has changed from Wednesday to Thursday.". He he says he will need money to lay low.

after identifying the kidnapper for fear. of retaliation. And he also worries he. might be incriminated like that Carlos. guy, the delivery man who was detained. and released. He ends this the second. note to Harvey by saying this is his. final attempt to help. This is it. I. want my one Bitcoin and you won't be. hearing from me again. Well, what. happens? That was February 12th, Thursday. What happens on Friday, February 13th, and you guys all know. exactly what happened. We hear from him.

again. As it turns out, it wasn't the. final. A third email from the guy and. now he's upped his price. He says he's. contacting TMZ because he doesn't trust. law enforcement. He says, uh, "You don't. trust me and I don't trust you to. authorities." He suggests the reward. being doubled by the FBI to $100,000 was. a move designed to discredit me. He says. when he gets the initial payment, he'll. give up the name of the main individual, referring to the main individual. suggesting that there are accompllices. Uh he refers to the current state of.

Nancy Guthrie, but won't be specific. This email does not or does warn. authorities if they cooperate with the. sender, they should be prepared to go. international. Okay, but he's still in touch. He hasn't. cut off touch. And then comes one on. Sunday, February 15th. Wait a minute. What happened to This is it. You won't. hear from me again. Here we are back on. Sunday, February 15th. A fourth email. Same Bitcoin account as the other other. three notes. I know what I saw 5 days. ago south of the border and I was told. to shut up. So, I know who he is. And.

that was definitely Nancy with them. upping the ante about what he's seen. And the second reference he's made to. being there uh and that there or to. there being more than one person. involved, he says now he has a burglary. on his record from 10 years ago. So, he's scared to come forward. And then. Friday, March, oh, sorry, Friday, June. 26th, yet another email comes in. allegedly from this person. Now, this. person says he has video of the main guy.

and Nancy on the day she died. The point. being, the urgency is there, the lies. become apparent, and it's like the ark of a fraudster. Mhm. >> And if we look back at just those first. two ransom notes, I take your point, James, they have a similar arc where. it's like urgency and tough and like or. else. And then like, oh, she perished.

It's not your fault, you know, but still. possibly keeping the family on the line. >> Yeah. and and think about just think. about all of the resources, the time. like we've spent just talking about. these notes. You know, we've spent a lot. of time on these shows talking about. these notes. Well, there are. investigators behind the scenes who are. having to work through this also and. they're dealing with the family. They're. trying to figure out this is real or. not. I mean, it's very, very difficult. hard work. And if these are fraudsters,

you know, they're going to have to say. in their report, "Hey, we're moving away. because this guy's clearly a fraudster.". and they better be right, right? Because. they're going to be asked about it and. judged later if they were wrong. Um, but. you know, we need other investigators. who are working other buckets of this. case. And you see how much time this has. taken just us. And if they don't have a. lot of resources, which again, I'd like. to know exactly how many people are. working on this thing. Um, there's a lot. of bodies getting chewed up with. nonsense, right? And that's that's part. of what's going on and that's why we're.

sitting here six months later and. there's nothing, right? We have nothing. But these things can, you know, tend to. take us down these rabbit trails. U and. if we don't have a lot of resources and. a lot of bodies working, it makes this. very very difficult. >> Okay. What? Go ahead, Chad. You were. going to say something. >> Uh and [clears throat]. we may get there, but it's it's almost. the way she's talking in those videos. Um does the bureau feel like some of. this could be legit? because the way she.

speaks in her recent video a few days. ago, um, some of her verbiage in there. makes me believe that, you know, if. these, you know, behavioral analysis and. and agents with the bureau are talking. to her that they do somewhat feel like. there is some type of communication. still going on behind the scenes. >> That that is exactly. >> I don't know if there's still. communication, but she definitely told. Hoda that she thinks those first two. notes are real. And I think she probably. got that from the FBI because Savannah's. a sophisticated customer. She wouldn't.

be deviating from what federal law. enforcement had told her. Will, >> you know, I mean, I do agree with Chad. I I think certainly from her last um. release, her last video that it does. appear to be some kind of communication. channel that is open, which which does. um. it conversely works against those other. notes, which are more definitive that. there there were no channels of. communication. And certainly one of the. things that maybe Savannah is looking to. try and achieve and again I've done this. is where unfortunately the hostage has.

perished. It is trying to retrieve. obviously the the deceased family member. or friend or whoever it might be that's. been taken hostage. So it may be her. beseeching some sort of communication. The problem is with a lot of these. frauds, like James was saying, um there. the you when you have a case which is. well publicized, everybody's going to. come out the woodwork to try and uh and. jump on the wagon and make a few bucks. here and there. We saw it with the the. infamous case over here for Maline.

McCann, the small child that went. missing. And there are still frauds to. this day who are trying to claim that. they have witness evidence and they have. information that could lead to her. whereabouts. So you know the the the big. challenge as James was saying for the. bureau is to try and differentiate and. try and move one to the other. Whether. there is a current line of communication. I don't know but certainly I would see. her beseeching obviously whoever did. have her to say where is she so we can.

get her back. Hey, Megan. >> We just we just covered I was saying. earlier that we have this series that. we're doing for the summer called MK. Confidential and it's it's a series on. crimes, infamous crimes that we're. releasing on our same podcast feed. In. the first week, we did John Bené Ramsey. And in that case, not only okay, we we. never found out, you know, who killed. her. We never found out who wrote the. ransom note, but we did have more than. one guy claiming he did it. M. >> like there was this one guy in.

particular who claimed he did it and. like confessed the whole thing. He. wanted quote credit for it. He he did. had nothing to do with it. It was like. his weird fantasy. So, like the FBI's. got to deal with that possibility, too, that there are people glomming onto. this, like wanting. for their own, I don't know, weird. psychological benefit to to convince. people that they're the perpetrator or. that they have a connection to the. perpetrator just just to get off on it. Never even never mind even the Bitcoin.

Chad, >> well, think how many years that. narcissistic sociopath Joran Vanderloot. in the Natalie Holloway case was. dropping little hints and teasing things. along the lines, but would never It took. Yeah, of course. But it took forever for. him to come back out and say something. But in this last video, Savannah, I'm. going to read what she says when she. says, "The world can be a cruel and. unforgiving place, and I know that you. have tried to do things the right way.". I picked up on that and it's almost like.

um she feels like she's talking to the. same person and I I'm I'm just going. back. I feel like there is other. communication that we do not know about. >> Yeah, >> Megan, let me jump in real quick. Chad. had asked me a question and I think um I. want to I want to be very direct on. that. I think you're right, Chad. I. think there is somebody from the bureau. talking to her about what to say. Okay. And that's fine. And I think that's. great. I I think my concern here, and I. don't know if anyone's picking up on.

this, but this might be all they have. Okay? Meaning they're they have nothing. other than these very strange ransom. notes to the media that and that's where. they're going. It's almost like this. Hail Mary pass at the end of the game. So, what I'm gleaning from this that we. don't have anything. We don't have. fingerprints. We don't have DNA. We. don't have cell phone activity. We don't. have the normal evidence that you would. find in a kidnapping. Okay. And this is. it. We're gonna we need to reach out to.

maybe a fraudster to see if if maybe. they can give us something. And that's. scary as hell to me. >> Yeah. Totally agree. Totally agree. >> Sheriff Nano says, we play this sound by. in our first hour. He says, "We have DNA. at multiple labs, not just FBI. We have. mult multiple labs. have so much DNA, but we don't have any idea whether they. have. >> DNA of someone they think is the. perpetrator, you know, as opposed to. like there's DNA on the inside the. refrigerator at NY's house, too. But do. we have any idea whether it's from the. person who abducted her? Well,

>> no, exactly. I I I think again that's. that's just casting the net as wide and. as far as possible, which is probably. the only options that they've got right. now. But I I'd certainly agree with both. Chad and James with what they've just. said. I think certainly in terms of Chad. saying that there there is possibly. another line of communication James. certainly in terms of the the bureau. guiding uh Savannah as to what to. actually say and that's standard framing. as we would call it which we do in what. we call the contact preparation. So when. a a demand comes through it's generally.

will be a family member or a partner uh. or spouse who will be the person that. will be necessarily communicating. it. it's not uh necessarily an official. that's picking up the thing particular. picking up the phone or the. communication uh because ultimately. again it's not about capture it's about. retrieval. So I I think. >> do you think will she deposited the. money with that line? We we've done our. part. Do you think there's any chance. she deposited $6 million? >> I I certainly hope not. No, I mean you I. mean the golden rule is you never pay.

make any kind of down payment uh and you. never make any sort of gesture of. payment. You know, proof of funds comes. against proof of life, and that's the. one thing which has really held this. whole thing up. There's been zero proof. of life on Nancy, which unfortunately. again leads me to suspect that she. perished pretty quickly after the. capture. >> Can I bring up one thing? J. >> James Fitz Fitzgerald was saying, "Yeah, go ahead, Chad.". >> Sorry. I I think Will might have just. mentioned this or James, I apologize. uh.

which one, but it I we did have an. recent news article that came out, I. think on CBS where an anonymous, you. know, FBI source stated, "We are no. closer today at 6 months than we were, you know, when this happens." And. remember, Megan, the last time that we. communicated, I discussed my federal. source that told me that there are no. solid suspects in this case. And that. was what, four months ago, probably four. or five months ago, when we last had. that communication. And now six months.

later, CBS is reporting almost verbatim. the exact same thing. >> Although Moren told us the last time she. was on, she has reason to believe that. they're zeroing in on Porch Man. Um that. it hasn't come to fruition yet. And my. impression in in dealing with my own. sources is the FBI is trying to distance. itself from this case and from Sheriff. Nanos that they want it really clear. that this is his investigation, not. theirs. And that does not exactly smell.

like success to me, you know, like. they're getting ready to say, "Oh, it's. a joint effort and we got the guy." It. sounds more like, "Oh we've got. nothing. This Nimrod out there." Because. uh what I can say, separate apart from. my own impression is Nanos and Patel. have been kind of waring. Patel went on. Hannity and made some statements that. were basically along these lines, you. know, that we weren't brought in until. late. Um, you know, Sheriff Nanos, uh, kind of kept the FBI out of this. He.

said local officials kept FBI. Do we. have that? Do we have that sound bite, you guys? I think we do. Cut. Anyway, >> it was four days. >> Here it is. This is from May 5th. This. is on. >> I knew from my sources. >> They were trying to keep you guys out. >> They did. >> And for 4 days, we were kept out of the. investigation. And [snorts] when we were. finally let in, Sean, look what we did. We went in and got the Ring doorbell and. we said, "Hey, is anyone talking to. Google?" I called the leadership at. Google. That's why you have that image.

because the FBI worked with Google to. put that image out. >> Why did they send the DNA to a lab in. Florida, not Quantico? >> Again, we were saying, "We'll process. it." I we I launched hundreds of agents. and intel staff to Phoenix in Tucson. just for this case, just to be on stand, just to do the canvasing. And we said, "We'll take the DNA." And again, it's a. state and local matter. So, it's their. call on where to send the DNA. We have. Quantico, best lab in the world. I had a. I had a fixed wing aircraft on the. ground ready to move it immediately. through the night. And they said, "We're.

sending it to Florida." And we would. have analyzed it within days and maybe. gotten better information or more. information. Our labs just better than. any other private lab out there. And we. didn't get a chance. >> All right. Let me tell you what's really. interesting about that soundbite. There. is zero chance those two did not discuss. how it was going to go before the. interview. And Hannity's questions are. just as telling as as Cash Patel's. answers. Hannity's disdain, right, his. contempt for Sheriff Nanos was evident. there. Like they they why didn't they. call you in 4 days as though that's like.

four months. I mean, I granted it's it's. like it would have been better if they'd. been there day one, but Sheriff Nanos's. answer is they actually were there. They. weren't there day one, but they were. there day two. Um that that uh Sheriff. Nano says Cash Patel is wrong. uh that. they were brought in within I think 48. hours and they were but but the point is. Hannity is telegraphing the FBI is not. to blame. Cash Patel is telegraphing.

The FBI is not to blame. Now let's be. honest, it it would have been better if. the FBI had been there day one. I think. we can all agree on that. But like they. were there. They were there within 48. hours 72 at the absolute outside. We saw. that presser, the first presser was. Sheriff Nanos, but then right after. that, we had an FBI agent who briefed us. from Tucson. So, they were definitely. brought in by February 3rd. That's 48. hours. She was taken on February 1st.

So, all of this is to say this is about. covering your ass. That's what's. obvious. Cash Patel's like, "We had a. fixed wing aircraft." Okay, I'm not. blaming him. I'm just And the FBI, he's. like, "Well, we we're the ones who found. the image." Yes. Good for you. That's. great. >> But let's be honest, the FBI has not. been able to solve this case any more. than the Pima County Sheriff has. >> Well, I I think if I could, as the FBI. person here, um, when we say the FBI was.

there, we got to be real careful what. we're saying. Okay. some agent from the. Tucson field office who just rolls over. there in his field jacket saying, "Hey, I'm here to help in any way we can to me. does not meet the definition of the FBI. is, you know, got its resources on the. ground and they're, you know, they're. working this thing." That is not what. I'm feeling at all. And what I hear and. I don't know Mr. Patel at all. But what. I'm hearing from him is it sounds like. the real resources, you know, the lab, the ERT, the cell phone analysis unit,

all of this, you know, big resource. stuff, which is on the East Coast, by. the way, that wasn't allowed in until 4. days after she was taken. That is. significant. That's not that might as. well be four years when you're dealing. with a kidnapping. So, it is significant. that they weren't brought in. immediately. Now Nanos can say it's. because you know the FBI blah blah blah. but I I kind of tend to understand what. Patel is saying and I think we need to. be real clear when we say yeah they were. there. In what capacity is the better.

question? [clears throat]. >> Well that's a very fair point because I. think the FBI's complaint from the. beginning has been they have not been. allowed to run herd on this that you got. Sheriff Nanos running herd and that he. doesn't know what he's doing. >> Right. And that and that's the challenge. with this case as we kind of said the. first episode. They don't have primacy, you know, they can't just roll in there. FBI style in the movies and say, "Hey, we're taking over." They can't do that. on a on a kidnapping. And so, they are. really at the behest of the, you know, the locals. And and and thank God, you.

know, there are media outlets like you. keeping pressure on this Nanos because. that's it there. He's not a city, you. know, police chief like in Seattle that. can get fired. you know, he's a sheriff. and the only way he can really get. removed is some type of, you know, election change or some type of ballot. initiative by the, you know, citizens of. of Pima County, which I don't see. happening. But there's got to be. pressure put on this guy, you know, to. be more forth with. I saw Fitz talking. earlier about, you know, start to. release some things, and he's right. But, you know, we're not getting. anything from this guy other than, you. know, quick snippets at his white.

Corvette on his way to the gym. Mhm. No, that's why I applaud this uh. Brianna Whitney, this journalist from. the local Tucson outlet who's now with. Crime Junkie who's like, I'm going to. tell you what's in the two notes. Like, good for her. What What could possibly. be compromised at this point if that's. really what's in those two notes in her. revealing that, right? It's like, but. why does she have to do that? Why does. Savannah have to go and do the, you. know, we're in agony video? Where is. Sheriff Nanos? sitting down with a.

17-year-old podcaster from Canada. saying, "Oh, we we're all over the DNA.". [laughter]. H it would be laughable if it weren't so. frustrating. I want to We pulled a sound. bite, you guys. Just just just for. kicks. >> When the whole fraud on us, my family, >> came out, when we realized Diane and. Brad were fine and they were at home and. we had spoken with them, we realized, "Oh my god, we're in the midst of. somebody trying to defraud us." We kept. it going. The fraudster did not know we.

found out and so we kept it rolling for. a little while longer and it was super. fun. You would have been so it would. have been so fun to have you guys. involved in this at the time. But I I. had a phone call with him and he was. trying to get me to pay the money and it. was 17 grand and he wanted Bitcoin and. uh we cut just a little excerpt of my. final conversation with him before the. jig was up. Here it is. >> Are you soul practitioner or what are. you? I'm a public defendant. I work for the.

state bar here in Massachusetts. >> In Massachusetts. Okay. Where'd you. where'd you go to law school? I'm a. lawyer, too. >> I went to school in New York. John J. Law. >> Oh, really? What year did you graduate? >> I'm sorry. 70 73. >> You graduated law school in 73? You. don't sound that old. >> Oh, yeah. I am. >> [laughter].

>> And then he I asked him where we could. pick up Diane and Brad after we, you. know, made the payment. And he's telling. me that they're in Massachusetts in Cape. Cod, you know, at some jail. And he. gives me an address in Connecticut. I'm. like, Connecticut? They're in they're in. Massachusetts. And oh, oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so busy. And the and the way it. finally ended was I finally was like, you know, $17,000 is a lot of money. We're not really even that close with. Diane. [laughter] And he hung up. It was.

like the big reveal. He gave it up. He. hung up. He realized we were on to him. But it was like kind of shocking that he. gave it up, you know, like he went to. such lengths. He hired the actress. He. was playing the lawyer, her Dian's. lawyer. He had somebody at at the quote. courthouse, again in air quotes, to pick. up the phone and give me the case number. and give me an update on like their. status. He definitely had at least three. players in all this and three different.

numbers. Like these guys are not kidding. around. Just as elaborate as you think. you know they wouldn't be, they they. will. So like [clears throat] I don't. know. I don't know how they would have. figured out that there was the watch at. the end of the bed, but I'm starting to. come around to the to the belief, James, that. >> the whole thing's a fraud other than the. guy who took her. Go ahead. You were. going to say something, Will. >> Yeah, I was just going to say, Megan, you you'd be surprised how common those. kind of frauds that were perpetr was. attempted against you uh actually are.

occurring all over the world. And. certainly with the advent of AI, there's. an ability that even to capture a small. amount of of someone's voice from a. telephone call or being stood next to. them, you can then duplicate that voice. You can create whatever script you want. And so you can make it terribly. convincing that you are speaking to. someone that you recognize the voice of. and believe is that genuine person. >> Yes. >> I mean, you had a pretty amateur one. there. >> It is possible. it it's possible that's what was done to.

my mother-in-law. We we have just. assumed all this time that it was an. actress. >> pretending that she was Diane, but we. don't know that. And of course, if you. talk to any elderly person, they'll tell. you that, you know, the person's like, "Your your granddaughter has been. arrested and you know, like she needs. you." And then they're like, "Which. granddaughter?" You know, the. grandmother's always like, "Which. granddaughter?" And then the fraudster. will be like, "Which one do you think it. is?" you know, to to get you to say the. names of your granddaughter. It's that.

one. It's that. Yes, it's little Rachel. Whatever. >> So, it's they're they're very. sophisticated and they tend to target, you know, elderly people, but in this. case, they they targeted a famous woman. and her siblings and anybody would. become instantaneously vulnerable and. manipulatable if if you had their. parent, if they believed you had their. parent. So, I guess it's extremely. likely that some fraudster somehow found.

out about that watch, Chad, and used it. to get the money because let's face it, the thing about the flood light is not. persuasive at all. Broken flood light on. the outside. If you actually had Nancy, would wouldn't you look at it the other. way? Wouldn't you have better than this. is where the watch was? >> I'm going to go through a lot more. details that's going to trigger the one. that they want. Savannah to say they. know they, you know, whether it is a a a.

diamond pendant necklace that is a. family heirloom, something that is going. to truly give that uh absolute, you. know, we have her and also that true. proof of life like all these gentlemen. have talked about who work these, you. know, complex cases like this. Um, you. know, it's just not normal to not give a. true proof of life in a situation like. that. But do we know was did did Nanos. or the bureau ever confirm yes there was. the watch or has that ever been.

released? >> No, never been confirmed at all. Just. that there were details in the first. note that led them to believe this was. the actual kidnapper. So, in the time we. have left, it's just a minute or so, uh, final theories on what happened to Nancy. Guthrie. Chad, you want to go first? >> Yeah. So, I think uh here we are at the. six month mark, Megan, and I am going to. go with uh kidnapped for ransom gone. bad. Um and I think that Nancy passed.

away uh if not that evening shortly. after. I think initially this was going. to be a true kidnap for ransom. Um and. it went bad. >> Go ahead, Will. >> Agree with Chad. Yes. And always. believed it to be the case right from. the get-go that this was a kidnap for. ransom. I don't think it's a. professional group. I think it's. amateurs. I think there is some. connectivity to Nancy in some shape or. form. Who that might be, we don't know.

But I think unfortunately Nancy has. perished by now. And I think it is a. case of uh there not necessarily being. an open line of communication, but. sufficient enough for Savannah to try. and beseech or plead to whoever may have. uh Nancy to try and retrieve obviously. uh NY's remains. James, >> again, I'm open to being wrong, which is. fine, but I have to go with what we. don't have. And what we don't have in. this case is we don't have fingerprints,

we don't have DNA, we don't have cell. phone activity, we don't have, you know, anything of that we would usually have. in these cases. It speaks speaks to me. to this South American theft group. I. think they got in there. I think. something happened. I think they. panicked and I think for some stupid. reason they took that body. But that's. the only thing that explains to me why. we don't have anything. We have nothing. definitive. These people were not. amateurs. They had to have known what. they were doing. And uh that's that's. the theory I'm working off of.

>> There to steal, but not to steal Nancy. >> Yeah. I think they were in there to do a. burglary and then I think something. happened. They panicked. They said the. hell with the you know taking anything. We got to get her out of here to buy. time so that you know we have because. she won't be found till the morning type. of deal. But if we take her Got it, >> we got some time. Thank you all gentlemen so much for. today and all the times you've helped us. to be continued. Uh don't forget. everybody we have the final two episodes. of MK Confidential coming up tonight and. tomorrow on the trials of Klaus von.

Bulo. It's about to get really good. Enjoy. We'll see you Monday.