Kyle Busch's Shocking & Tragic Death, Plus Female JP Morgan Exec COUNTERSUES, w/ Eiglarsh & Spilbor

Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome. to the Megan Kelly show. We have a. jam-packed Kelly's Court coming up later. today, but we begin with a truly sad and. shocking story out of the world of. NASCAR as the sports world mourns the. sudden shocking death of 41-year-old. NASCAR legend Kyle Bush. Details. surrounding his passing remain murky, but here is what we know. According to. the Associated Press, yesterday Bush was. using the Chevrolet simulator in. Concord, North Carolina. That's near.

Charlotte, when he became unresponsive. and was taken to a hospital. His family. initially releasing a statement that. suggested Bush would not be competing in. this week's Coca-Cola 600, writing, quote, Kyle has experienced a severe. illness resulting in hospitalization. He. is currently undergoing treatment and. will not compete in any of his scheduled. activities this weekend at Charlotte. Motor Speedway. We ask for understanding. and privacy as our family navigates this.

situation. Less than 8 hours later, NASCAR, his family, and his racing team. releasing a joint statement announcing. his death. Quote, "On behalf of the Bush. family, everyone at Richard Childress. Racing, and all of NASCAR, we are. devastated to announce the sudden and. tragic passing of Kyle Bush." The. statement read, "Our entire NASCAR. family is heartbroken by the loss of. Kyle, a future Hall of Famer. Kyle was a. rare talent, one who comes along once in.

a generation. He was fierce, he was. passionate, he was immensely skilled, and he cared deeply about the sport and. fans." His death coming 11 days after he. told his crew over the radio near the. end of a race in New York that he needed. a doctor to give him a quote shot. According to reports, he had been. suffering from sinus issues that were. aggravated by the G forces of his job. and elevation on the course. He came in.

eighth that day and was healthy enough. last weekend to go on to win the truck. series in Dover, Delaware. We're going. to get to the medical issues in one. minute. We have a team here to tell us. what they think. This is a 41-year-old. guy. How How do you drop dead of. something related to sinuses, maybe at. age 41? What What do they think went on. here? We're going to delve in in one. minute. First though, Bush is survived. by his wife Samantha and their. 11year-old son Brexton, as well as their.

four-year-old daughter Lennox. That is. just awful. a little fouryear-old and 11. year old. that's too young. You know, it's it's it's so bad on a couple of. levels because 11, what's worse? The 11year-old who will. remember him and will feel this pain. acutely or the fouryear-old who probably. won't. That's just too young to have lifelong.

memory. She may have some vague image, but I'm sure every parent has thought. about this. You know, it's like I've. thought about it a million times since. my dad died when I was 15. And I feel so. grateful that that was long enough for. him to make his imprint on me. And, you. know, for me to know him and to for me. to have a real human in my mind, in my. heart that I can remember. I think the. same will be true for their 11-year-old. boy. But the four-year-old, I don't I no, I don't think so. Oh, I. think about it with Charlie's kids all.

the time. You know, Erica and Charlie. did such a good job of videotaping their. family. And Charlie, of course, there's. reams of video. We all feel like we know. Charlie, but there's, you know, there's knowing. him as your dad and having memories of. him taking care of you. And then there's. knowing video of him, which it's not. quite the same. We all know that. And. these poor two kids and Samantha now. have to wonder what happened. Was this. preventable? And this guy was a superstar in the.

world of sports and racing. The NASCAR. community says he was truly one of their. best. Two-time Cup Series champion. He. won more races across the three National. Series than anyone else in history. Known as Rowdy, they called him or Wild. Thing because he was full of. personality. Uh he had these post-race. fights and feuds with other drivers. He. had a bunch of frenemies in the. industry. Uh he he was an unforgettable. presence on the NASCAR scene. Here's a.

flavor of him. Watch. >> Bob Hawker, ESPN. Were you surprised. that Austin could stretch it out fuel. and then I mean what mean do you think. for Austin to get his first win? >> I'm not surprised about anything. Congratulations. >> Are you okay with Joey moving forward? >> Everything's great. Really looking. forward to getting in my race car and. getting back here in Phoenix. >> Speaking of that, are you glad that this. is over and now you can get in the car. where you're comfortable and get back to.

racing. >> Everything's great. Really looking. forward to getting back into my car and. uh being here in Phoenix. >> Everything's great. Looking forward to. getting back into my car. >> If you had that 45 point buffer, do you. fall back on that? Is it really sticking. your mind at all? >> It's pathetic to have to lean on. insurance. My premiums are going to go. up. >> Very frustrating. cow bush. Understandable. >> Got to where we needed it right there at. the end and was able to lead all those. laps. And if it wasn't for lap traffic, it wouldn't even have been a race. I. don't know what y'all were whining. about. But if you don't like that kind.

of racing, don't even watch. >> Um Kyle, you overcame some adversity on. pit road to work your way back up. Can. you talk about how you made your way. back through the field? >> Pure talent. That's about it. Uh my pit. crew did absolutely nothing to help me. out tonight. My truck drove like and. these splitters are absolutely. horrendous. You can't pass in traffic. You can't race alongside anybody. You. can't get within five truck lengths of. no one. But somehow someway I was able. to get back to the front. Had a blast. >> Kyle, what was your thought about. Keslowski's little pre-race declaration?

>> Who? >> Brad Keslowski. >> Yeah, I don't know who you're talking. about. >> Okay. He drives the number 12 car. >> I saw it, but I passed it. very full of personality and just didn't. mince words and was unapologetic about. his tough personality on on the course. He didn't always get along with his. fellow drivers, but he did always show.

appreciation for his fans. Watch. >> What's up? >> OH MY GOD. OH MY GOD. IT'S freaking. >> How are you? >> I freaking love y'all. your head. >> I love y'all. You OH MY GOD. OH MY. GOD. >> I'm Oh my god. You freaking awesome.

>> Good to see you guys. Thanks. >> Oh yeah. I'm so happy you won. >> That's That's amazing. I, as you guys. know, I'm not a huge sports person, but. I know enough about NASCAR from 14 years. of Fox to know the fans are not kidding. around. There is deep commitment and. deep deep love of the sport and the and. the guys who drive the car. So, it's. it's I I feel that woman's joy. I've met. so many people who feel exactly that way. about Kyle, about NASCAR in general. Uh,

this was posted by his fellow NASCAR. driver, Carson Hassiver. He wrote, "Every day is a privilege, and today is. a truly sad reminder of that. This. little boy in this picture hated you on. Sundays, but he loved to hate you." This. is of of himself. And you made it very. difficult to hate and not become a fan. when your passion for racing showed. When you would show up to his hometown. to race at his home tracks, he'll be. forever grateful for that. From a fan to. a hater to a competitor to a teammate.

and to even maybe a friend. I share that. story because this little kid in the. picture was not anywhere near the true. number that you impacted for the better. just through racing. You will be deeply. missed both on the racetrack but. certainly off. Rest in peace. Despite. all of his success, he never took. winning for granted. There's this video. He said it before. This wasn't the only. time he said it, but it is it is pretty. ominous that he said this just last.

week. in a comment that now seems preant. >> Kyle Bush, your 69th victory in this. series, your fifth right here. Why do. these moments never get old, Kyle? >> Because you never know when the last one. is, you know. So, uh, >> did he know something? You know, he had been struggling with. this sinus thing. He did need a dock to. come see him at the end of the one race.

Did he did he have a sense of forboding? You know, does a man know when he's. about to die. on some level? Do we know? You know, and. it's not it's not like a you could you. could ask the same question if it's a. car crash or a plane crash, god forbid, or something like that. But when it's an. illness, like a sudden onset illness. that's in you, do you know at some. level? I don't know. The only thing Kyle Bush was more.

dedicated to than racing was his family. Here's his post on X from Monday. He. died on Thursday. He was wishing his son happy birthday. Happy birthday, Brexton Bush. Your mom. and I are so proud of who you're turning. out to be. You're the best kid on and. off the track. You amaze us every day. Keep doing what you're doing, and there. is no limit to what you'll accomplish. Love you, buddy. That's the last expost that Kyle wrote. and it will be the last birthday of his.

children that he will have had the. chance to celebrate. And here's Kyle and. his wife Samantha talking about Brexton. and Lennox, including how he's teaching. his young daughter how he was teaching. his young daughter how to race. >> I've seen Kyle change since becoming a. dad in many ways. There is a whole. another element when you get to bring. your child to Victory Lane, and that was. something so special. Obviously, Kyle. started with Brexen as he was little, throwing him up in the air. >> You know, being able to teach Brexton.

about racing and what I love is really, really unique and very cool to me. I. feel like there's a lot of finishing. touches that you can add to a driver and. his character and how he handles. situations. So, trying to lend that 20. years of experience to a 9-year-old. certainly going to be crucial in his. development. And, um, you know, I feel. really blessed and honored to be able to. help him with that. When Brexton won the Tulsa Shootout, he. literally like had tears in his eyes. And that was just so exciting. And it's.

amazing as his wife to just, you know, see that softer side of him. Um, and I. also love not only with Brexen, but. Lennox. She's all of two. We got her a. little cart and Kyle, same as he did. with Brexen, just at a much younger age, brought her out and was like, "Okay, Lenny." Like shown her the ropes. and it. was cute as can be. Especially sometimes. when she's driving a hot pink Barbie car. and Kyle's like jogging after her and. you're like that's just he's a great. dad. >> The video is well worth watching if. you're listening. You can check it out.

on our YouTube. Kyle and his wife. Samantha were also philanthropists. operating the Samantha and Kyle Bush. Bundle of Joy Fund which helps couples. with infertility issues after the pair. had troubles of their own in that. department. He is going to be deeply. missed, of course, by his family, but. also by the whole NASCAR community now. mourning one of the most accomplished. drivers in modern history. So, how. exactly is it that what's been reported.

to be a sinus infection or a sinus. related illness. potentially morphs into a cause of death. at 41. We don't know the cause of death. I'm just saying that that's the only. illness he was suffering from that we. know about. And 41 is supposed to be one. of those ages where no matter kind of. what you're going through when it comes. to illnesses you can contract, whether. it's a stomach bug or a cold or a flu or. a pneumonia, you're not supposed to die. Not supposed to die at 41. Joining me. now to discuss it is Bob Lita. He's a.

doctor. He's a clinical professor of. medicine at Ruters New Jersey Medical. School and a guest of yours trulies many. times back in the Fox days. and Dr. Dirk. Parrot as well. He's an emergency room. doctor and CEO of MD Health Pathways. Don't miss a moment. Subscribe to this. show on YouTube and follow me on Insta, Facebook, and X. Our sponsor, the. Electronic Payments Coalition, says. Washington Politicians are always. getting in your wallet and that now.

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routing transactions over cheaper, untested networks with weaker security. and fewer protections. Find out more at. guardyoucard.com, and consider telling Congress to guard. your card. Doctors, thank you both so. much for being here. Uh, what a what a. crazy and disturbing story. I I kind of. can't get past it. Dr. Let me start with you. Um, what do you. make of what we know so far? Just the. calling of needing a doctor for a shot.

we are told related to a sinus infection. about a week or so ago and then um being. found unresponsive yesterday. So, it. seems like he was out he was in a. simulator. You know, he wasn't like in. bed like I can't function and and. clearly had some sort of an event where. he died. It's a it's a tragic story. beyond belief and u our condolences go. to the entire family. But when you talk. about a sinus problem, the first thing. that comes to my mind is congestion.

Now, you can have congestion from a. variety of reasons. Um some of which are. cardiac. You know, a 41-year-old who. drops dead, one has to think of a. cardiac cause. So he could have been in. congestive failure, heart failure and. that may have resulted in his feeling of. congestion in his uh nasal passages. The. other thing is that I thought of when I. heard this was pulmonary embolis which. is a sudden cause of death which is a. blood clot that goes to the lungs and.

stops you from breathing. Now he had. might have had micro blood clots that. were throughout his pulmonary or lung. system. And the third thing that I. thought of was aneurysms. That was. that's the explosion of a blood vessel, a large blood vessel like an aortic uh. vessel. That's least likely. And then. when we get into the rare stuff as in my. subsp specialty, which is immunology, rheumatology, we think of vasculitis. Vasculitis can cause a chronic sinus.

infection. It's very, very rare to have. someone die from that. That's. inflammation of the blood vessels of the. nasal passages and large blood vessels. going around the heart and and a. condition called uh myocarditis which is. inflammation of the muscle would cause. congestive heart failure, heart failure. in general and a heart attack which. would result in sudden death. >> Those are the things. >> we all know about myocarditis and from. the the covid pandemic.

>> Some people who got COVID suffered from. it and some people who got the vaccine. >> Exactly. Uh were were killed by. myocarditis. It happened a lot with. young young men, teenage men in. particular, teenage boys. That's dark to. think about and I'm sure all all of that. would be reflected on an autopsy. >> Yes, definitely. An autopsy for a sudden. death like this in a 41year-old is. mandatory. >> Okay. Dr. Parrot, what do you think? You're an ER doc, so you you would have. been exactly the kind of doctor who.

would have had to deal with this had. they, you know, gotten him to an ER. prior to being pronounced dead. >> Well, first of all, my heart goes out to. the family. I He has two young children. I've got three daughters. I saw the. video of him riding on the uh. four-wheeler uh with his kids on the. track, and I I just know how much that. family is going to miss him. So, my my. prayers go out to him. >> I I can walk you a little bit through. how an ER doctor thinks. So we we when. you come into the ER, we're we're tasked. with thinking what is the worst thing.

that can cause this. And and like you. said, a 41y old should not die. And when. you think about what what can kill a 41y. old, it's going to either be your heart. or your brain. And uh when you think. about sinus, what can masquerade as a. sinus infection uh and ultimately be a. cause of desk death? There's a couple of. things. One's what's called CVST, central venus sinus thrombosis. very. rare condition. Probably only seen it. about five times in my career, but it. presents with sinus pain, sinus.

pressure. You think you have a really. bad sinus infection, and what's really. going on is you've got a lot of. inflammation uh kind of in your sinus. area, a bacterial infection, uh and. ultimately it causes a clot in the blood. vessels that drain the sinuses. And so. uh when that clot forms uh back behind. your sinuses uh the the blood can't. drain and ultimately put creates a lot. of pressure on the brain and ultimately. a bleed and that head bleed obviously. can cause death. So that's one one rare.

cause uh that can masquerade as like a. sinus infection. The other thing is some. people call sinus infection uh upper. respiratory infection. So if he truly. just had upper respiratory type symptoms. just like Dr. Leita said uh the cause of. death could be something like. myocarditis or a heart infection uh or a. very severe pneumonia uh leading uh to. to respiratory death. But but as an ER. doc when you come in uh to the hospital. uh and you look well and you're a.

41year-old, we we think that you. probably are well and don't think of. these rare rare instances and rare. causes. And there's very specific types. of testing to identify these these types. of conditions that aren't typically done. uh unless we have a high suspicion or. you look very ill. Dr. Barrett, let me ask you a question. Um we had friends who had to bring their. family member into the ER for a sinus. infection where their family member. started to feel like they're starting to.

black out. They thought it was just a. sinus infection, but then it was clearly. an emergency situation. So, they brought. him into the ER and it became very clear. to the ER docs that there was something. wrong with his brain. And it turned out. he needed emergency brain surgery. And. and my understanding is they believe. that this sinus infection had somehow. traveled to his brain. That might be. just be my lay person's description of. what I know, but they had to do. emergency brain surgery on him. And uh.

he would have died if they hadn't done. it was all related. So could this have. been like is there some sort of sinus. infection that can travel to the brain. and and cause death if not detected? >> Yeah, great qu uh great question, Megan. Um, so your your brain and sinuses are. very closely in proximity and so anytime. you get a sinus infection, there's a. great barrier between your sinuses in. your brain to keep your brain from. getting that same infection. However, uh. there are blood vessels that are very.

close and and in some people uh uh that. that infection can spread to the. bloodstream, can make its way into the. brain, can cause things like menitis, can cause an abscess, can cause a blood. clot. Uh. >> that's what I think it was an abscess. >> Yeah. And and those have to be. surgically addressed immediately. Uh. otherwise they could could lead to. death. >> Could Could that be consistent with what. you're hearing with like him having. symptoms and then the day of like going.

out and about like not not in bed like. maybe just thinking it's a sinus. infection. I I'm gonna function. >> When when you're a tough guy like Kyle. Bush, uh you can take a lot of pain. And. so I am certain uh a young healthy guy. like this that sits in that car and is. an athlete uh was minimizing his. symptoms. Probably a normal person would. have sought uh care more more quickly. sooner. But here's a tough guy that's. used to putting up with pain. And so by. the time he got to to medical treatment,

he was probably in a very se severe. condition. Um, and if it was an abscess, if it was a blood clot, uh, it may have. been too too late to intervene at that. time. >> I mean, before I go back to Dr. Lita, now I have everybody in the audience who. gets sinus infections worried about. whether it's going to travel to their. brain, right? So, it's like, how do you. know if it's just like a regular sinus. infection or something that could be. potentially deadly?

>> Can I answer that? You You usually. >> Oh, yeah, please. you usually in a. severe sinus infection which really uh. travels to the brain you you'd have to. have or you should have a very high. fever uh fever would denote something a. little bit more than a chronic sinusitis. which is an inflamed sinus. So a fever. that might result as a result of the. menitis that ensues after the bacteria. travel to the brain would cause a.

significant feeling of malaise, fever, weakness and inability to function. Now. the other thing is if he blew a blood. vessel or had a cerebral hemorrhage uh. that could also cause immediate death. and that would be a tremendous tragedy. This sinus that he had I'm sure Dr. Perne would agree is not something that. would be if it's traveling to the brain. is not something that would be in 24. hours. It usually has to be cooking for.

a while and then the high fever would be. noted. And I don't know what the. injection would have been that he was. seeking. That's interesting. >> Yeah. I mean, could it be like a steroid. or something to take down the. inflammation? I mean, I don't know what. kind of an injection you would get for a. sinus infection, but I can understand. how it would get worse when you're. driving so fast. You're measuring it in. G's. >> Usually an antibiotic, you would think. So, listen to this, you guys. Uh, this.

just came in. Uh, this is being reported. by TMZ, which has gotten its hands on. the 911 call that was made, we believe, by the folks at the simulator facility. after Kyle. went down uh after they determined that. he was non-responsive. And there's some. description in here of the symptoms that. they were observing. Let's listen. Uh. I've got an individual that's uh. shortness of breath, very hot, thinks.

he's going to pass out, and is uh he's. got is produced a little bit of blood, coughing up some blood. He is awake. He's awake. He's he's on the bathroom. floor right now. >> Okay. >> Um so when you come in, if you could not. make it, can you turn the sirens off? >> Yeah, the siren. when you get here and. and there's a so when you come into the. main entrance of the building, >> the closest way to get to him is if you. go to the left, like you'll come in and.

the the parking lot splits to the right. or the left. Just tell them to go to the. left. I'll be out here waiting on them. >> All right, we're just going to play it. one more time so you can focus in on on. the description at the top. We just I. just want to hear that one more time. Uh. I've got an individual that's uh. shortness of breath, very hot, thinks. he's going to pass out and is uh he's. got is has produced a little bit of. blood, coughing up some blood. He is. awake. He's awake. He's he's on the.

bathroom floor right now. >> Okay. >> Um. >> so when you come in, if you could not. make it, can you turn. >> this part? Yeah, we got it. >> Yeah. >> Uh so there's some details in there. I. mean that's exactly you know Dr. Parrot. this this is what you would get uh from. the EMTs who would have brought him into. you. What what did you glean from that. description? >> Yeah this shifts our focus to a. respiratory issue. So uh he's fever, short of breath, coughing up blood uh. highly suspicious for severe pneumonia.

uh at this point and there are a couple. of strains of pneumonia uh in young. people that can cause a rapid decline. So, so when we heard originally that he. had sinus symptoms, he may have meant. that I just have an upper respiratory. infection. I've got upper respiratory. symptoms. This paints the picture of a. young man that has severe pneumonia. Uh. things like MRSA pneumonia can cause uh. uh uh bleeding in the airway and you can. actually suffocate from that blood that.

you've produced and that bleeding in. your airway very quickly. So, I think. this shifts shifts the thought that this. may have been a a a cerebral uh issue to. a respiratory issue. >> Dr. Lita, what what did you hear in. there that that jumped out at you? >> I've heard I heard the bleeding from the. lung, the coughing up blood, which we we. know is associated with pneumonia. I do. know that right now I'm seeing a lot of. patients with what are called multif. focal areas of infection multif focal. pneumonas very severe pneumonas causing.

sepsis depending on your age now he's. only 41 so he can handle that but I have. patients who are in their 70s and 80s. who are in the hospital in shock from. septic shock which would definitely kill. a 70 or 80 year old but a 41y old uh. this is a little unusual it has to be a. pretty severe infection the Other thing. that goes back to what I'm thinking is. the pulmonary embolis. I have seen so. many people and I'm sure Dr. Perin will. agree who who die from acute pulmonary.

emblei and that is a big clot that goes. to the lung and you know if these little. clots go to the lung before the big one. they cough up a lot of blood. And the. the third thing is congestive heart. failure. One can cough up blood with. congestive heart failure and pulmonary. or lung edema. Fluid in the lungs, lots. of fluid. And the hemoptis, >> what would cause a pulmon? What would. cause the PE? I remember that from my ER. watching days. They they would dread the.

PE, you know, and even we would come to. know, oh god, it's a PE. What what would. cause that? >> Well, with with. >> with Kyle's job, >> we'll do Lita and then we'll go to you, Perry. >> Okay, good. Well, a PE would come from. we call that proco-coagulant. You can. have a deep vein uh clot in your legs uh. from sitting too long. You can have it. from having a disorder of your blood. which is called procoagulation meaning. your blood tends to clot prematurely. We. see a lot of that in in the hospital and.

so that is always a possibility. Pulmonary emblei cause a lot of sudden. deaths. You don't have to be old to get. a PE. You don't have to. You can see. pees in teens. You can see it in early. 20s and certainly in a 40-year-old. >> Oh my gosh. But there wouldn't be like. advanced notice of a PE, would there Dr. Parrot? Like are we like if we're going. with respiratory and following what you. just said, maybe it wasn't a sinus.

infection. Maybe it was something like a. pneumonia that he wrongly thought was a. sinus infection. Would would that relate. to PE? >> It can. any anytime you get an. infection, it creates an inflammatory. state in in your body. And so that's a. pro-coagulant. So, uh any type of. infection and then uh Kyle uh sits down. He's a he's a race car driver. Uh the. sitting position for prolonged periods. of time can allow you to develop clots. So it could be that he had some. infection and then uh because of that.

inflammation in his system and sitting. down in a simulator for a long period of. time uh had developed a clot in his leg. and broke loose and suddenly uh caused. an imbolism uh to the lung. Um, so, so. it's really hard to say without having. imaging, a CT scan, but if he came into, uh, my ER, uh, he he'd be getting a a CT. scan of his chest, uh, looking for both. pneumonia, both PE, uh, to try to. identify the cause. >> Are you surprised to hear the caller say.

he's awake? Uh, apparently, if you. listen to the whole thing, he says it. three times. He is awake. He's awake. He's awake. We heard the part where he. said he's awake, but he's on the floor. So he was conscious. and having symptoms and I don't know it. it feels like. I don't it's just my frustration should. have been savable should have been. savable. I like how how can can you if a. PE was the problem? Would that not be. savable? You know I mean what could it. have been that would have killed him. from the time of the simulator to the.

time he presumably was taken to the ER. on our list of suspects. Dr. Parrot. >> Yeah. So, uh, most pees, uh, it's very. rare to die, uh, at 41 of a of a QPE. The treatment that we have today, we can. give you blood thinners. We can go in. there and grab that clot. We can do an. imctomy, get get you over there and. remove the clot. Um, however, if you. filled up your your airway with fluid, um, blood, um, and and you can't. oxygenate, even if we put you on a. ventilator, and this is due to a.

pneumonia or an infection, uh, and we. can't oxygenate you because your lungs. aren't functioning, they're full of. infection, they're full of fluid, they're full of blood, that can cause. death unless you get on ECMO, which is a. way to bypass the lungs and still. oxygenate your blood. Um, that could. cause cause death. Dr. Lita, would it be a standard. practice in a case like this? Do you. think if he comes in and says, "I think. I have a sinus infection. You know, I'm. all stuffed up. I'm in pain in my face.".

To do a lung x-ray, which is I know that. that would be the standard if you. suspected pneumonia. >> That's correct. Yes. Pneumonia, you'd. listen to the lungs carefully. You would. do a complete cardiac exam. You would. really get the picture. And I don't know. if he had a physician that was. frequently examining him. Most athletes. of his caliber are followed medically. fairly assiduously. >> Well, there was that one doctor 11 days. before he died who gave him a shot of. something and knew he was ill. He was. talking about it. You I've heard the. audio him in the car. So, clearly there.

was medical care involved in some way. >> Yeah. Now, I don't remember. Megan, did. they say he had a fever? The e the guy. that. >> they said he's very hot. >> He's going to pass out. Shortness of. breath, blood. He's coughing up blood. and is awake on the floor. Very hot. That's suggestive of an infection as Dr. Parin and I believe that suggests that. he could have had pneumonia, severe. pneumonia because you don't with a blood. clot that's a significant blood clot, a. pulmonary ambulance, you don't usually. have a high fever at the outset. I mean,

it takes the pneumonia, the infection. that's causing all of this uh to really. cause problems. And it's likely that the. doctor a couple days earlier that gave. him the shot gave him a shot of an. antibiotic um which doesn't cover it. I. mean, if he's that severely ill, he. should have been on he should have been. in the hospital on IV therapy, IV. antibiotic therapy, uh because he. probably was septic and sepsis with a. high fever coughing up blood, >> it's imminent death unless treated.

aggressively. >> That's awful. I don't know any of the. details of how far away the center where. he was doing the simulator was from an. emergency care hospital or what the. level of trauma care they were able to. give was. I all those details will come. out. And did you now did you say it's. mandatory for a 41y old? Was that just. like loosely mandatory or actually. mandatory for hospitals to to give an. autopsy to a 41y old? >> Mandatory.

>> So there will be an autopsy. >> Yes. I mean, I don't know, Dr. Parin, how is it in Texas? I know in the New. York metropolitan area, it's mandated in. a young person who dies. >> In in Texas, it's it depends on uh if. you have an explainable cause of death. So, if if the doctors were comfortable, they knew what caused this. There was no. foul play. Uh it is not mandatory, but. uh you have to have a explainable cause. of death. I feel like any spouse, you know, a.

young woman like his wife is would want. one because they have kids. You want to. know like you want to rule out was this. something genetic that we need to be. testing for in the in the next gen and. so we need to be on alert for it. Um I'm. sure she's not thinking entirely. straight, but you know, I think whenever. your spouse would die suddenly of a. medical thing, you'd be worried about. your children, too. And just just ruling. things out. It's such an awful tragedy, guys. Thanks so much for pinch hitting. on short notice and offering your. expertise to us and our viewers.

>> Absolutely. Thank you. >> Really appreciate it. Wow. Say a prayer. Say a prayer for that grieving family. It's so sudden death is just so awful. It's so awful. You know, it's like for. the person who goes, we all kind of hope. we'll go suddenly, right? It's like, you. know, I mean, for the for the rest of. the people out there, that's not going. to happen to any of us listening. Um. dying. we're just going to stick around. But for the family, it's just so. painful. There's no chance to say. goodbye. There's no chance to acclimate. yourself to the possibility of one.

going. And um when there's children. involved, just so much acute pain for. the mother to deal with their grief, being a single mom in a minute. You. know, look at this guy. He's like a. strong, tall, professional athlete, fierce. you know, the way he would. battle rhetorically and take no, you. know what, like I'm sure she's used to. being protected by him. I'm sure he was. the alpha figure in the family and now.

he's gone and she's going to need a lot. of support and I'll bet you anything. she's going to get it. The NASCAR. family's very close. Uh, and I'm sure. the fans are just wondering what they. can do. Maybe we'll start a GoFundMe um. or something to help. I'm sure I'm sure. they weren't hurting for money, but. there's got to be some way to of sending. her and the kids our love. It should. start with prayer. Thank you all uh for. tuning in and listening to that. We're.

going to move on to other news because. we do have a whole show lined up for you. on Kelly's Court. And we have just. gotten ourselves a hold of. some exclusive video in connection with. the young Scottish man we told you about. yesterday who was stabbed to death by a. man in England who said he was allowed. to carry this amazing terrifying knife.

um thanks to his religion and did in. fact, stab this 18-year-old young man. with it. The cops came. The stabber. claimed that he was the victim. He. accused the victim of shouting some sort. of racial epithet at him, of which there. is zero proof. And as this young man lay. dying, the police told him he wasn't, that he hadn't been stabbed. They didn't. know anything. And did his asalant cry.

out, "No, he has been stabbed. I'm. sorry. it was an accident or it was. self-defense, which is what he's now. claiming as that case is on trial this. minute in the UK. No, he didn't. He kept. his mouth shut. There's been almost no. photographic evidence of the alleged. perpetrator here, the defendant. Somehow. he's all been scrubbed from the. internet. Well, we've gotten our hands. exclusively on a video that shows him up. close and personal with not one but two.

knives, one of which appears to be a. sword. I mean, a long sword, like an. epi. And we're going to show it to you. next. Hey, thanks for watching today's full. episode. If you're new here, throw us a. subscribe, see what you think, stay in. touch. There's plenty more goodness. where this one came from. As always, we. really do value your feedback, so email. me, too. Megan megyn megan kelly.com or. just leave a comment down below. I do. read them. I meander over and I scroll. through and I find them very.

entertaining and really appreciate the. feedback. But in any event, join the. community by becoming a subscriber, so. you miss nothing. We value your support. We may not always agree on positions, but as you know, I'm very open-minded to. people who disagree with me. That's how. I learn. So, thanks and thanks for. trusting us to always talk about it. openly, honestly, and with provocative. conversations. Let's talk about an. uncomfortable reality. What happens. financially to our loved ones once we. are no longer here? We put off thinking.

about it for obvious reasons, but the. best thing we can do for our family is. to ensure that they are not left with a. financial burden of mortgage, tuition, medical bills, all of it. Fortunately, taking steps to financially protect your. family is easier nowadays than it used. to be. And that's where Ethos comes in. Ethos makes getting life insurance fast. and easy and 100% online. You can get a. quote in seconds, apply in minutes, and. even get sameday coverage. There's no. medical exam, and all you need to do is. just answer a few simple health.

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vary, too. We are jumping into Kelly's. court now. Uh there's a lot on the. docket today. We're going to cover uh. the latest in Murdoch. There's been a. massive update in that JP Morgan case. where that guy is accusing Lorna Hajini. of sexually harassing and even forcing. essentially sexual assault on him. Um. lots to tell you there. We've got Luigi. Manion and we're going to get into Henry. Noak in the UK in our video that we want. to show you uh with our panel. Here to. break down the hottest legal stories are.

Mark Iglar and Jonas Spilborn. They are. hosts of the brand new show positively. legal which you can find on the MK True. Crime channel wherever you get your. podcasts and on YouTube at. youtube.com/theatsign. mktrime. Mark Janna welcome back. Uh we. have a short time here before uh the end. of the hour and I just want to kick it. off with the most bizarre story on the. internet. It's not legal but you might. have thoughts. It's this mask guy, alleged mask guy. I know you've seen it.

He went on Fox News and his name is. Robert Harard. He is uh of Sentcom, formerly of Sentcom, Central Command in. the Middle East. He's a military guy. And he was speaking to my old pals Bill. Hammer and Dana Parino on my old show, America's Newsroom. And that video has. now gone super viral because if you. focus on his neck right above his shirt,

it very much looks like the bottom of a. mask that is detached from the skin. I. don't know what else this could be. There's some speculation by some online. saying maybe it's a shadow. I it doesn't look like a shadow to me, >> but it's kind of hard to swallow mask. We have other video of this man from. other hits he's done. And I will say he.

looks a little smoother in his America's. Newsroom hit than he does in some of his. other videos. So, it's like I don't. know, maybe I have no idea why he would. be in a mask. At first, I saw it and I. said, "This is some crazy conspiracy. theory. People are nuts." But it's gone. so viral with so many people who I. consider legitimate reporters, non-conspiratorial people saying, "What. in the hell is this that I we got to. talk about it?" Um, any thoughts, Mark?

I saw you shaking your head yes or. nodding your head yes. What do you make. of it? >> It's just bizarre. I I don't know what. to make of it. I mean, the first thing. is I I thought it was a given that it. was a mask and then you're raising, well, it could be a shadow. I'm like, "Oh, wait. Let's give him the Let's give. him the presumption of innocence here. Maybe it's not a mask. And if it's not a. mask, then what the hell are we doing. talking about it, right? But if it is, that's bizarre. >> Well, Viva Fry, who we love, uh he's a. lawyer, too. He's a journalist. And he. said he's he he thinks it's a shadow. He.

thinks if you watch this mark, which is. horizontal across his throat, right. exactly where a mask that you might pull. over your head would end. He thinks it's. mirroring. It's mirroring his lip. movements. And I can see what he means. there. It is kind of mirroring his lip. movements. So I don't know what that tells us, Janna. Um like it I don't know. But. Viva's theory is also that somehow it's. a reflection of the teleprompter. But.

Viva, there would be no teleprompter for. the guest. You guys have been guests on. Fox News countless times. The guest does. not get a teleprompter. At best, they. get a little camera that they look into. So, and the camera doesn't cast a shadow. on the per on the guest. So, I don't. Maybe it's his shirt causing a shadow. I. don't know. Jonno, what do you think? >> Well, I originally thought before I. realized that this wasn't Zoom. Sometimes zoom when it enhances your.

image can make things look really weird. But I actually think if it's a mask, this guy's on to something. Megan, hear. me out. I know this probably doesn't. happen to you, but it's happened to me. How many times do you wake up in the. morning one day and you're like, "Oh no, my Botox wore off, right?" And then you. got and you have TV, right? You've got. some big thing. You got a big comment, you're like, "Shoot." Okay, let me get. the mask. And until you can get to your. Botox doctor. Objection. Unrelated. >> I love it. You can't object. >> No. What is it?

>> It would be so helpful. Wait, we. actually pulled video from the internet. of somebody putting on an ultra. realistic silicone mask. Silicone, >> right? >> Amazing. Watch this. >> All right, >> the listening audience, you got to go to. the show at 44 after the hour and and. look at this. >> He's putting on his face. He's pulling. it to sort of get it on the nose. properly. He's putting the bottom neck. underneath his t-shirt. He's putting on. a cap so you can hide the weirdness. Ew, he looks very creepily real. >> Yeah.

>> Would not you would not know, >> Megan. In the interest of disclosure, I. just I wanted to say something. >> Oh god, don't freak me out. No. E, you're freaking me out. He's pretending. to pull off his mask. Let me tell you. something. So, the internet was going. nuts with this last night. Yours truly. in included. And one of the clips that. started to circulate was of the I didn't. even know there was such a person. The. former chief of disguise at the CIA.

>> Coolest job ever. Who doesn't want that. job? >> Her name is Janna Menddees. >> And she went on, you know, the singer. Jennifer Hudson. She had a talk show for. a while. And this woman went on, I mean, like so random. what the former CIA. chief of disguise was speaking to. Jennifer Hudson and talked about how. this is absolutely something they do at. CIA, a full head mask that you put on.

over that that has like the neck ending. and they used it and she talked about. when she revealed it to a former. president in the Oval Office. Watch. this. >> What's the most memorable moment from. being in disguise for you? Um, there were a number of them, but the. one I mean one that has to stand out, I. went to the White House. >> and I briefed George HW Bush, the. president at the time, while I was.

wearing a full face mask. So, we're sitting like this close. together, and I'm telling him that I'm. going to show him the best disguise that. we have, and he's looking for a bag. like, "Where where is it?" I said, "Well, I'm wearing it and I'm going to. take it off." And I reached to start. taking it off and he said, "Stop." And. he got up and he walked and he looked. and he looked at it. He couldn't. He. didn't know it was a mask. He wasn't. sure what I was wearing. He sat back. down. He said, "Okay." So, I took it off.

and I was holding it up in the air so he. could see it. Uh, my whole head. It had. hair and a face and a neck. >> So, you could walk around as someone. else. >> Absolutely. And that would be the. disguise. >> Absolutely. That was a great disguise. >> Go Jennifer. But. >> go a couple years ago. >> Wow. That was. >> so random. You can't make it up. >> But there for the listening audience, there she there's a picture of her.

behind her talking of her holding her. little mask up like a like almost like a. severed head. >> sitting in the oval. And it look it's it. is not impossible at all that this guy. for some reason was wearing an actual. mask. We just don't know why. Now if. this guy's former CIA talking on. America's newsroom I I think I'd be. confu convinced Mark but he's former. scentcom. >> Right. What's his motive? >> And he doesn't Right. >> Yeah. He doesn't have the He's bald. He. doesn't need to worry about the hair the.

the wrinkles. >> Maybe he's not bald. >> What? Yeah. What? And also well unless. this isn't him. Like I think that's the. theory by some. So here's an earlier. shot of him on a different appearance. where he does look a little bit more. rugged and less smooth than in this. other one on America's Newsroom. But I. think the the question is guys, was it. actually this man uh Robert Harard on. America's Newsroom? Because, you know, I. I've listened to the audience that many.

of them thought that Joe Biden had a. lookalike or sort of a standin who wore. a Joe Biden mask many many times and. there there would be videos on the. internet they'd cut where like you could. see the height differential. We had tons. of video of Joe Biden next to Jill Biden. and in a couple of videos, you know, and. he was infirm, you'd see him much. shorter, like almost her height and. people would be like, whoa, what. happened? you don't shrink, you know, by. six inches. So, can we rule it out or.

are we just getting pulled into the. madness that's in the ether right now. with all the aliens coming out and like. all the things we were told were. are true, >> right? Bigfoot is alive. We we we know. that now. >> It's real. >> We did a segment on that on America's. Newsroom one time, too. >> No. No. >> In the doldrums of summer, Iglars, it's. hard. It's hard to fill the two hours of. your time. God, can't we just talk about. a murder? >> I know. Something simple to solve. All. right, so we don't have answers. Is that.

Is that basically where who. >> What's your vote? If you have to vote. what was it a mask or not? What do you. say, Janna? >> It kind of looks like a mask. But if. you're that sophisticated where you're. going to put on somebody else's face, wouldn't it be a little bit longer? Wouldn't you wear a scarf like a Austin. Power? Do something to cover that up. >> Like an ascot. I'm going with shadow. There's much to do about nothing. Nothing. >> No. >> I I don't know if you really You don't.

know. >> It It moves just like the bottom of a. mask. It really does. I guess I'll go. with shadow because, you know, AAM's. razor. Simplest explanation is usually. the best. And again, why would this guy. be wearing a mask? And his voice sounds. just like the voice of the actual Robert. Harard in other hits. So, I don't. believe it was a different person. Um, but will we ever know? He's gonna have. to put out a statement. I guarantee you. we are tminus like two hours from him.

putting out a statement or doing a hit. He's going to show up and we'll update. the audience with that video when it. happens. All right, stand by guys. because we've got so many medical or. sorry, legal uh cases to get to and. there there's some some good ones today. While I have you, it is Friday and that. means it is the one day of the week we. send you an email. If you are on our. list, we don't sell our list like so. many others so we can make money off of. you. We just send you one email a week. And in it, we give you all the news of. the week in 60 seconds or less. If you.

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said perfect, and that's good. You. didn't totally mislead me. He's not. perfect, and I don't think he's ever. going to be. But we always put an update. on Strudwick in there. And um. fortunately or unfortunately to quote. our president, he always gives me an. update. If you are heading into summer. without a medical emergency kit, you're. taking a risk most people don't think. about until it's too late. Summer colds. linger and can turn into sinus. infections that last for weeks. I can I.

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Back with me now are the hosts of. Positively Legal on our MK True Crime. channel. That's a that's a podcast. that's called MK True Crime. You can go. over there and subscribe and listen to. Positively Legal and enjoy. These are. our Kelly's Court OGs, Mark Iglar and. Jonas Spilbore. Check out mktrime.com to. find out all the platforms that they are. on and how to subscribe. By the way, new. episodes of Positively Legal drop every. Wednesday. We call it positively legal. because these two happen to be like.

these crushing killer lawyers who are. actually always affable and can always. find the positive in a situation. And. it's a fun show. Here's just a little. We pulled the sound bite just so people. can get a flavor of what they might find. on positively legal here in S 20. You. know that you are so busy and stressed. when you get a text from your Botox. doctor checking on your wellbeing. Which. I did, by the way. My Botox doctor's. like, "Hey, everything okay?" Like, he.

literally did a welfare check cuz I. haven't been there. Why? Because we're. so busy. I'm busy. You're busy. And um. >> I have mixed feelings about a Botox. doctor. Really? A Botox doctor? I mean, he's not your heart doctor. He wants to. put more stuff in your face. Okay. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. And anywhere else that I'll let him. put it. So, I miss him. >> Mark, you don't know. Not everybody.

wakes up gorgeous like you. >> Stop it. >> The rest of us have to fight for it. John, I support you in having the Botox. doctor on speed dial. >> I'm going to turn Mark. You know, men. are doing it too, Mark. >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> I get accused, but they are. You'd be. surprised. >> No, I ain't going to do it. >> Now, I I will never get Doug to do it, but I do know some people in television. and even in government who are getting. the Botox. And I speak of men. I mean, women, it's like not a shock, but but.

even men. And if they get it done right, you don't even notice. You just think. that they look great. You you can't. tell. But if their like smile ends here. when you know like they can their eyes. never then you know that's where a lot. of guys get it. Uh and of course the. famous 11s that's where people. >> are pickle ball. >> I didn't I'm glad that statement ended. where it did. Um okay I want to kick. this off with this horrific Henry Noak.

case. So, he's a Scott and he's he was. going to college in Great Britain in the. English city of Southampton. He was. walking home after a night out with. friends. Yesterday, we said this. happened in 2023. I'd like to correct. that. It was 2025. It was December of. 2025. He was walking home, first year college. student studying accounting uh from a. night out with friends. He had been. drinking but not much. He was not. legally drunk. and a man approached him.

uh named Vikram Digua who is seek and. dresses in traditional seek garb and. carries knives as part of that chosen. garb. You're not allowed to carry. certain knives in Great Britain, but. there is an exception if it's for your. religion. So, for example, he carried an. 8-inch long shastar, which is a knife, as well as a seek kurp, a ceremonial.

blade. All right. So, we're we're. showing a picture of it now and of this. particular guy. Uh, in the UK, seeks are. legally permitted to carry a keron knife. in public as it's protected under. religious exemption laws. Okay. So, um. this they the two men had an encounter. in which Vicram and Henry exchanged. words of some sort and the next thing we. know Henry gets stabbed four times by.

Vicram. Those facts are not in dispute. That that is what happened. What words. were said, whether the stabbing was in. self-defense as Vicram is now claiming. in court, we don't know. But that's. basically what the arguments are. Unfortunately, Henry is not here to. testify in his own defense because he. died from those injuries. And the police. behavior around his dying moments is. absolutely outrageous. And one of the. things I believe that made this an.

international scandal because it turned. out as he lay dying and handcuffed. because his asalant was saying he called. me a racist name. He he was he said. shouted something racist at me and the. cops believed him slapping cuffs on. Henry. Henry was bleeding out and about. to the reports are basically drown on. his own blood that was filling up his. lungs where he had been stabbed by. Vicram.

>> um and said I've been stabbed to the. police who said I don't believe you have. mate. >> and this poor 18-year-old kid is now. dead. So, his accused asalent is on. trial in Great Britain and is acting the. choir boy. Uh, it was self-defense. He. called me a racist name. >> I was worried he was going to stab me. with my weird knives. And weirdly, it's. actually there's precious little.

photography or other pictures of this. guy, Vicram Digua, on the internet. We've looked, but we were passed a video. by a source that shows the defendant in. his seek gear, and he's got the one. knife across him. There's this one sort. of I don't know how you describe it, but. like a. it's it's a knife that sort of cuts in. half. It's like has a 90 degree angle on. it. I mean, it's absolutely lethal.

looking. And in this particular in this. particular video, I think you'll see. that knife or at least a strap to it on. his chest along with. a sword, the kind of sword that college. kids use when they're doing sword. fighting. You know, I think they call it. an epi. um in his h in his other hand. I. mean a full sword walking around the. streets of England. And what's. interesting to me is you will hear him. they are they object in the beginning of. the video I'm about to show you to him.

being recorded which is another thing. that allegedly happened during his. confrontation with Henry. Henry took out. his phone and started videotaping this. guy. He reportedly didn't like that. And. through one act or another, Vicram, the. defendant, wound up with Henry's phone. on him. >> And his mother is accused of helping him. hide some of that evidence. Now, if. Vicram did nothing wrong, you would. think he'd say, "Hey, police, here's my.

phone and here's Henry's phone." You. know, you're going to hear a racial. epithet on there. That's not what. happened. He didn't tell people. They. found the phone on him. But listen here. carefully and you will also hear him. objecting to the recording or his. friend. Listen. >> recording him recording him. Come on man. You got big problem. Not nice.

Nice. Now, let me tell you something else. My. source tells me that this man victim was. known to police and this this wasn't his. first brush with them. I find that easy.

to believe. If he's walking around the. streets of England with an actual sword. out, it's not sheathed. It's in his. hand. He's having yet another angry. confrontation with somebody to the point. where that person felt they ought to. take out their camera and record what. this guy was doing. Doesn't mean he. didn't kill Henry in self-defense, but. it doesn't doesn't look good. Um, so let. me start with you on it, Janna. What do. you make of this trial? Because it's. underway right now.

And unfortunately, our friends in the UK. have lost their minds when it comes to. race, free speech, and even the. possibility of a racist thought or word. Here in America, it's not illegal to be. a racist or even to say racist things. And believe it or not, that's a good. thing, my friends. It's not like we all. want to be racist and run around saying. racist things, but we don't want to. criminalize even the most the most. controversial behaviors or statements. that it crosses over into unlawful if.

you act on it in the employment context. and that's your motivation for a. decision, etc. But over in the UK, you. actually can get arrested for like being. a racist. Having a racist thought or. behavior or statement could actually get. you arrested over there. And I do. believe that's why Henry wound up with. the cuffs on him because they took this. guy's word for it. Your thoughts? >> Well, it's disgusting. And over here, that would not happen because over here, if police happen upon a scene and one.

guy is brandishing or has weapons on his. body and another guy is laying in the. street bleeding out, the person with the. weapons is going to get subdued first, not the victim. So, that's number one. Number two, so many facts about this, Megan, really rub me the wrong way. And. for example, I don't care how drunk any. college student gets. Do you think that. person is going to approach somebody. who's wearing knives? I just it wouldn't. happen that way. So, who really was the.

aggressor here? Who really was the one. making the first move? Who would who set. out to possibly stab somebody and make. this what could be a false claim of. self-defense? I have a lot of questions. in this case. Megan Mark the umgan the. police say. >> there's something major we're leaving. out this to me this is everything and. I'm so glad that both of you didn't say. it so I get to say it. I don't know what. the facts are but I do know that there. are stab wounds to the kid's legs, his.

hind legs which would indicate that he. was turned away from this guy. End of. story on self-defense. Yes, because police say that Digua, the. defendant, was quote aggressively. pursuing Henry, aggressively pursuing. him, leaving a trail of blood. After the. first attack, Henry tried to flee, but. was pursued and further assaulted, being. stabbed four times. Mark, so you're.

right. It's a great point. But he's he's. in court right now claiming, and of. course Henry's not there, claiming Henry. called him a racial slur and that he was. worried Henry was going to grab his gun. Sorry, his knife. I'm focused on. America, his knife, and stab him with it. because Henry was drunk and verbally. aggressive and I guess in this guy's. story in the mood to commit an assault. on this poor innocent seek. Okay, it is.

so predictable and maybe it's because. Jon and I do this work all the time. You. start with a guy who's not going to say, "Okay, you got me. I stabbed the college. kid because I'm aggressive and I've got. issues and I didn't like the way he was. looking at me or maybe something that he. said." He's not going to say that. He. knows he's going to the pokey for years. if he does. So, hm, let's go to the. playbook. Let's add in something that's. the worst you could say about someone, especially in that country, apparently.

So, he made some of these racial remarks. about me. Aha. Let's shift it over and. make him the criminal. And we'll also. say he's unarmed, but uh uh he was going. to use my weapon and harm me. Aha. Okay. And it worked so effectively. This guy. played law enforcement like a fiddle. because to to this guy who's got. injuries, he's dying. He's bleeding out. They put handcuffs on him. If that. happened here, people would be looking. for a new job for sure and maybe would. find themselves in the pokey.

>> Yeah. And they didn't they didn't put. handcuffs on on Vicram, the defendant, Janna. That's what's it's so outrageous. They took his word for it that a racial. slur had been uttered. >> They put handcuffs on the man who was. stabbed and down. They clearly didn't. identify or examine him to see whether. his claims of having been stabbed were. true because they they were true and. they were telling him that they weren't. A postmortem reports News Nation found. that he suffered four stab wounds and a.

cut to his jaw with two of the wounds, as Mark points out, to the back of his. legs. Now, I can see how maybe they. wouldn't find the back of the legs if if. it hadn't bled through, if it whatever, but like you do a cursory examination. before you decide whether the man needs. medical help or not. Mhm. >> And they weren't interested at all. So. like Elon Musk is threatening right now. or offering right now to fund the. wrongful death lawsuit by Henry's family. against the UK police. I mean, separate.

apart from the legal liability or the. the guilt or innocence of Vicram, there. may be something there in the civil. courts. >> There very well may because it's. absolutely ridiculous that you're. handcuffing somebody who's bleeding out. and dying. And what did the police do? I'm wondering, when they approached the. scene, did they just say to the. defendant, "Hey, you know what? Can you. just uh put that knife in your back. pocket for me? Can you not wear it. around your neck while we're processing. this poor guy who's about to die?" Like, how? I don't understand how that works. And maybe because I'm not familiar with. how they do things over in the UK, but.

it would never happen here. NYPD walks. up to somebody who's wearing a couple of. knives around his neck. That guy is. going down. That he might not get back. until they figure it out. And and by the way, by the way, Megan, >> he got a full sword. That's crazy. I. don't know if he had it that night, but. like he clearly walked around with it. Go ahead, Mark. >> I'm putting myself in the shoes of this. this guy, the victim. If I see a man. walking down the street holding a knife. outward, one that could kill.

>> I might be taking photos. I might be. videoing because that would look to me. so. unusual that I would think something's. about to go down. That's all I'm saying. Call me a racist. Maybe I just don't. understand that you're you're that that. that that's a religious thing. Okay. Kill me, you know, for that. But I would. probably think, "Oh my, >> don't say that.". >> Right. Something's about to happen and. I'm going to pull out my phone and keep. an eye on him. >> No. You know what I would do? >> He was reportedly Henry. >> Henry was.

>> Henry was reportedly uh speaking to. friends on Snapchat. >> Um that's why he had the phone. I don't. I guess that it was like a FaceTime kind. of situation when he came across Digua. They did exchange words. Noak is heard. saying in it bad man. What bad man? You're a bad man. Say you're a bad man. Go on. Digua responds I am a bad man. And Noak replies are you a and this is. the only way I've seen it reported. B. dot dot dot before the footage cuts off.

And I don't know what that what that. means. I have no idea what B stands for. or what he was asking and I haven't seen. it fully reported. Um, police were. called to the scene. >> maybe, but that like no one's printing. out the word you know, like. >> I I think it they might just be able to. tell that he said some word beginning. with B. I have no idea idea. But police. were called. They arrested Noak and Diga. claimed he'd been racially abused. Um, his brother, Digua's brother, says,

"We've just been attacked by someone. racially. We got attacked racially by. some white person." The brother says, "He physically attacked my brother. We're seeks. We wear turbans and he. attacked my brother." The police body. cam footage was shown in court. Noak. repeatedly told officers, "I've been. stabbed. I can't breathe." They put. handcuffs on Noak, who was lying on his. side. He was saying, "I'm stabbed." The. other officer, the officer told Noak he. was under arrest for suspicion of. assault. He said, "I've been stabbed." A. male voice says, "I don't think you.

have, mate." Digua, the prosecutor says, did not seek help for Noak. Uh, instead, he accused him of being a racist and. being drunk. After he collapsed, police. started rendering aid. Diga now wants. you to believe this was all. self-defense. If it were self-defense, wouldn't he have said that in the. moment, Janna? Wouldn't he have said, "I. stabbed him because he was going to stab. me." Wouldn't he have said while the guy. was lying there dying and his assault.

charge was turning into a murder charge? He has been stabbed. He He has been. stabbed. The guy's in handcuffs that he. knows he's not going to get away with. this. >> So, like he behaved like a man who had. consciousness of guilt. >> He led with, you know, he made a racial. slur. He he led with, you know, he made. a comment about my turban. It, you know, it reminds me a lot of that's the. buzzword that he knew he needed to say. like hands up don't shoot. Like that. kind kind of stuff was going on and he.

just spewed it out and the police bought. it hookline and sinker and now we have a. dead kid. So yeah, it's really it's. disgusting. >> He says to the police, "He came at me. He barged into me. I was racially and. physically abused by Henry Noak. I was. petrified as he pulled out his phone to. record his attack. But you know what's. not in evidence, Mark? Any video of. Henry Noak saying anything racial. whatsoever or or friends who had been.

listening to him prior on Snapchat. taking the witness stand to say, "Yeah, I did hear him use a racial epithet in. referring to these two seek guys." None. of that. There's been no evidence other. than the defendant who's worried about. going to prison. Yeah, I suspect that. that might not be true. But putting it. aside, let's just say, as you said. earlier, let's say because even a, you. know, a prostitute can be raped and even. even someone who is a racist. hypothetically, and we're not saying he. is, can be, you know, uh can walk in on.

the street and not have issues, right? And and doesn't deserve to be stabbed. But I keep focusing on, okay, one guy. had the knife, the guy who's walking. down the street, the the alleged. perpetrator is walking down the street. How does he fear that the victim is. going to get a hold of his knife? Because that's what we're talking about. The moment before stabbing, did the. perpetrator reasonably reasonably. believe death or great bodily harm? And. you can say, "Yeah, I believed he was. going to get my knife." How though? How.

was he going to get it? You had it. It's. not like he was grabbing at it and he. took it. Be detailed. How was he going. to do that? Not just in theory he could. get my knife, so I just stabbed him. And. I think that that's at at best what the. guy's claiming. >> Well, there's more to the story because. there are some key videos. They're not. It's not like our Florida courts, God. bless you, Mark, where we have the. sunshine law and then we get to see. everything that happens. Over in the UK, you see nothing. So, they're not. releasing even the evidence publicly, at. least for now. So, I only have.

descriptions of the videos that they're. showing to the jury. But apparently. there was a video shown to the jury of. Noak scrambling over a fence to try to. escape Digua after he was stabbed. And a. separate video shows Digua and his. brother accused Noak of racially and. verbally attacking Digua. And Noak can. be heard denying that. They're like, "You you called us a racial epithet or. whatever." And Noak in his dying. declaration denies it. Digua is heard.

saying, "No one stabbed you, bro. you're. something up. I presume effed up. You're. drunk. Meanwhile, he knows full well he. stabbed him. That's not even in. contention in the court case. But in the. moment, he's trying to tell the man he. stabbed that he didn't stab him. And the. dying man is saying, "I'm stabbed and I. did not call you anything racial." Um, another video was played to the court in. which Dwa's father was there. I like he. was traveling around, I guess, with his. whole family saying he's pretending a.

minute ago he was talking to you guys. Now he's trying to get up and going to. leave. Throughout the video, Noah can be. seen lying on the floor as Digua's. family and neighbors tell him to sit up. And listen to this. 2 days after the. murder, reports the Southampton Times, police covertly recorded a conversation. that took place between Vicram Digua and. his brother Gerrit. And a conversation, a transcript of it. was read to the jury. At one point, the. defendant's brother tells him, quote, "You should say it was self-defense.

I mean, this seems open and shut to me, and I'd be willing to go that far, Mark, if it weren't for the crazy. attitudes about race in the UK. Agreed. Where they've truly gone nuts. >> But it's how the prosecutors handle it. They need to say there's no evidence of. him using any racial slurs, but let's. just say he did. That's not what we're. here for. He's not being prosecuted for. that. The issue is whether it's.

self-defense. And when you've got stab. wounds to the back of his legs, they. can't justifiably say that that. occurred. There's just no way. He's now claiming Vicram, the the. defendant, that that Henry punched him. and pulled his hair, and that's why he. believed that he was quote going to stab. me. I I thought I had to do something. because I was afraid he was going to. stab me with my own care.

>> Right. >> He told the court he was walking to. fetch some curried chips from a car when. he met Noak coming. >> the other way like he was drunk. Barged. into me, >> turned around and said to me, >> "You could have moved up a little bit. more.". >> Said he then used a racially offensive. term before adding, "Do you think you're. a bad man? I'm from Essex. You don't. know what people from Essex are on. that." Noak started to videotape the. defendant. Uh I went to block the phone.

I grabbed it as well. This is when he. punched me. He pulled my turban. All of. this would be on camera. It would be on. the video recording. The the jury would. have seen or heard some of that. And. John, not only do we have the brother. saying, "Say it was self-defense." And. the father being like, "You're fine. He. nothing happened to you." As his son has. just stabbed somebody four times. But. the mother is also on trial because. she's accused of hiding the knife. She. allegedly hid the murder weapon for her.

son, which I'm gonna guess ne never. tried a criminal case, but I'm going to. guess probably had some blood on it. Yeah. Yeah. This is a a family that. wants to lie together to avoid being. found guilty in this case. You know, another I want to go back to the point. that Mark made earlier with the knife. wounds on the back of the victim's legs. Here's why. Because first of all, if. this defendant is so much of a little. that he thought pulling hair would. be would justify lethal force, then he's.

got another problem. But this is. different than somebody who shoots. someone as they're running away. Now, you know, if you shoot someone as. they're running away, the threat is. probably over and you too will be. prosecuted for that. But if you stab. somebody on their backside, you have to. physically be pursuing that person if. they're running away. You don't just get. to stand. >> And there's video, >> right? So this. >> there's video of him running over trying. to get over this fence with this guy.

continuing pursuit. >> This defendant could not have been in. fear at that point or and I'm going to. guess at any point, but he could not. have been in fear of bodily harm at that. point. If somebody's running away and. you have the knife and you have to go. after the person who you say you were in. fear of. >> Yeah. That they do the right thing. >> Those stabs to the legs. >> further evidences anger, not fear. >> The guy was angry. >> He didn't get.

>> in the civil suit that's inevitably. coming. I'm sure. I don't know UK civil. law when it comes to wrongful death. suits, but assuming theirs is like ours, and you can bring one. The cops are. going to have to answer for whether they. did know this guy, Vict Vicram Digua, whether he was known to law enforcement, and whether there'd been other incidents. like the one I just showed you that we. got our hands on, showing him angry on. the street with multiple knives, including a sword in his hand. a sword,

a long sword in his hand, unshathed. Um, and why, if that's so, when they. approached this scene, they didn't give. the victim the benefit of the doubt. Why. did they jump to accept this guy's word. uh and not that of the man who was lying. on the ground bleeding? And the re the. answer, of course, is skin color. It's. very obvious the UK has got a pattern. now of this. the the way this case turns. out matters and we're all going to be. keeping a very close eye on it. Okay,

let's move on. Something a little. lighter, not for the poor woman being. accused of this stuff, but for us, this. poor woman at JP Morgan Chase, uh, Lorna. Hajini has had her reputation ruined by. what I think is some sort of wacko. psycho. That's my opinion. Um, we've. been covering the story, so the audience. has a working familiarity with it, I. think. But just for those who don't. know, these two worked at JP Morgan. Chase together. Um they're high up. bankers getting well paid I think. And.

this guy is he is Indian as well of. Asian descent and she's white and he. alleges that she engaged in sexual abuse. and racial bigotry and that she was his. supervisor. She denies every single part. of that racial abuse, sexual abuse, and. that she was his supervisor. It's a true. he said, she said. His tale is so. bizarre and detailed and crazy that if.

it's true, she's a psychopath who should. never be employed by anybody again. Her response is every word of it is a. complete lie, a malicious lie. We never. had anything approaching a sexual. encounter. I've never even been to half. of the places he mentions in his. complaint. I wasn't his supervisor and. there's something seriously wrong with. this man. And now she has fought back.

One of the questions we were wondering. is like if somebody just think about it. if somebody who was in your company or. your law firm made the craziest ass. allegations about you like that you. committed rape on them and like were. this lunatic at every turn trying to. sexually harass them and coers them into. sexual acts against their will. You. would you'd sue them for defamation. You'd be like this is so effed up. The. problem is generally you can't sue for. defamation when the allegations are. simply made in an HR complaint or in a.

legal complaint that gets filed with a. court. And that appears to be the case. here. But she's she's filed a defamation. lawsuit now anyway. And she's said some. of these things. This is these are all. lies. All of them. And they're malicious. lies. They were told with malice, which. you tell me, Mark, but my understanding. is that's how you get around the general. rule that you can't sue somebody for. their legal pleading because if you can. allege they did it with actual malice, then you can.

>> That's the lane. And hopefully that's a. lane that you can pursue. I am not as. confident as you. I I don't know. It. sounds to me like it's been made up. The. story is absolutely bizarre, but I don't. know. So I go to what can be proven. She. in her answer and I I I read through. that very carefully. She's saying things. like I was never even in his apartment. when he claims certain things occurred. Okay, we got cameras everywhere now.

Does it corroborate what he's saying? Does it support what she's saying? If. it's just he said, she said, then. there's something wrong. It's more. likely that it didn't occur. If there's. not a single witness, a text, an email, a person, a busload, a nuns, somebody. who can support what the guy's claiming, >> well, I mean, it would be wrong to say. there's no one because now he's. submitted two third party witness. affidavit to the court. uh one third. party who says it was my apartment where.

some of these events occurred and I saw. some stuff and one who says I was. present on the night in September of. 2024 when a sexual assault allegedly. took place. They say um. well I don't have the details in front. of me but basically he's got two. witnesses now. One says uh witness one. whose apartment it was that Hajini. invited herself in there and that uh the. plainif rejected Hajini's sexual.

advances saying I'm not interested and. uh I guess both of these. >> What do you make of that. >> witnesses claimed that they were. eyewitnesses to this? >> Are we dismissing those two? >> I don't know because I don't know who. they were. >> Yeah, I am. I am because I don't know. who they are. I don't know what kind of. credibility they have and this guy seems. like a psychopath to me. I'm happy to. come out and say I'm wrong if it turns. out I'm wrong. Uh, you know what, like. you, I don't know. What do I know? >> I want to know what Jonathan, Janna, what do you think? I'm eager to hear. what you have to say. >> What do you think? >> I smell I smell her. So, a couple of.

things. We don't know the relationship. of these two uh friends who gave. affidavit. We don't know the. relationship to the original plaintiff. You know, the the woman is now counter. suing. So, is it plausible that these. people are like, "Hey, if you win, you. cut me in. Here's what I'm going to say. No one's ever going to be able to prove. otherwise. That bothers me number one. Number two, the thing that bothers me is. here's a person who invited the these. two parties up into their apartment.

where the alleged plaintiff male and. then the woman were in this other. person's bedroom and then fooling around. apparently and then the woman came out. and said, "Uh, you why don't you join. us?" It doesn't make sense. It's like if. you if it's your apartment and you're. inviting two friends in, I guess, and to. what you know, excuse me, I'm going to. go make some popcorn. You go you guys. just use my bedroom. Do whatever you. want. I'll be out here. It doesn't it. that part doesn't add up. She is. categorically think never been in that.

apartment. None of this ever happened. She I read through her her um uh her. complaint where she says, she's never. touched a guy. Like I thought this was. going to be all right. Is this another. issue of consent? We were in a. relationship, but it was all consensual. She's saying, "Nope. Never never touched. him. Never had a relationship with this. guy.". >> What do we know about her lawyer? >> Let's not forget JP Morgan. JP Morgan. says they conducted an internal. investigation because this guy did bring. a complaint to HR. So, I mean, I'm sure.

JP Morgan took this as seriously as a. heart attack. Like, this is one of their. top executives. They seem to really like. her. And so, they wouldn't have messed. around with this. they would have made. sure she hadn't done this or if she had. that they found out. They say she. cooperated fully with the investigation. and he didn't. They say she turned over. her cell phone, said, "I'm an open book. Like, go look through my emails. Look. through anything you want." And he. didn't. So, why didn't his alleged. witnesses come forward.

>> to the hearing? Why didn't he say, "Speak to these two people?" M maybe he. did and JP Morgan's lying, but I feel. like they they might have mentioned. that. Where why didn't if he had all. these like harassing text messages from. her, where are they? Why wouldn't he. submit those to JP Morgan and to HR? >> So that's that's what I want to know. about like his lawyer. Who is his. lawyer? Do we know anything about him? Is this guy an ambulance chaser who just. wants his 15 minutes or is he from a.

reputable firm who we would think would. have vetted this case particularly. because it's probably out of. contingency. So he thinks that he's. going to get a percentage of whatever is. recovered here. So he has to believe in. the case unless it's again he's being. paid by the hour but typically. contingency. I don't know. But I I what. I do know is that a year earlier he was. on it wasn't Legal Zoom, but that's a. similar website to the one he used where. you go on there and you can get a legal. document and you can actually get a. referral for legal advice. He went on,

again, it's not Legal Zoom, it's some. equivalent website. >> And he started typing in I've been the. victim of harassment. He said it there. by a he, not a she, and at a different. bank. He named a different bank. >> Um, and it was Morgan Stanley, which is. not the same as JP Morgan Chase. Um, he. said, "I I'm at Morgan Stanley," which I. understand he actually did work at. I'll. correct myself if wrong, but I believe.

he actually did work there. So, he's. saying it was a guy I was harassed at. Morgan Stanley. how do I like file a. lawsuit? And then they give you a. referral and I think he he found a. lawyer off of that website. Now, that. could be one of two things because she's. claiming he made these exact allegations. before in her defamation case. She's. saying he's a serial liar like or or at. least a serial complaintist. allegations. >> Unlucky fella in the world. Everywhere. he goes, the women and men both just.

throw themselves at him. >> Can't resist. >> Do oral. If you've seen a picture of. this guy, >> challenge. I don't believe it. Um, but. yeah, so she's she's claiming that he. he's made these allegations against. somebody else at a different bank. before. >> That could be true based on that online. complaint or it could have been him. testing his allegations, like putting. his allegations against her in disguise. onto this onto this website because I I.

have to go back and see. It was like I. think he filled it out while he was. already in the employee of JP Morgan. Chase but was ju fresh off of an. employee at the other place. Um oh okay. wait now this just in. >> we're this is like this this day we're. getting breaking news on all of her. stories in the middle of our stories. Okay now Laura Hudini reporting from the. Daily Mail has revealed the sickening. messages she received after this guy. accused her of making him a sex slave. Her attorneys have entered three emails.

that she recently received into the. docket as exhibits to further illustrate. the havoc that this guy Rana's claims. are having on her life. In one sickening. message received on April 30th, a sender. whose name is redacted wished vicious. harm on her and urged her to commit. suicide. I hope you get gang raped to. the point you want to kill yourself um. after you realize what a worthless. you are. >> You effing piece of s kill yourself. I. sincerely hope your family all die slow, painful deaths from aggressive cancers.

Wow, it's lovely. I mean, honestly, that's a day in the life here on the MK. show, but I understand for civilians. that that would be awful. Two other. emailers propositioned her for sex. One. from May 1st. Your new toy. It reads, "My name is redacted and if you are in. need of a slave, I've been searching for. a master. That Arab guy is an effing. pword, lol. If all I had to do was f you. and do it real good, I'd be the. president of Chase. Lol. Every man in. America wants to f you now. Hope I get a. turn. Another writes, "New slave. Omg,

you bad girl. Fly me out. Damn. You got. hips. I want to behind you over the. desk." And Okay, you get the you get the. gist. >> So, this is what this woman's been. dealing with. And why is that in there, Janna? To show us what that's evidence. I mean, it's not evidence time in her. case, but why is her lawyer submitting. that? >> That she's been damaged. That this. caused damage to her reputation. It. ruined her personal life. it ruined her. professional life. How much longer is. she going to have to endure texts and. emails like that from random strangers.

um because this case is has really gone. viral. And if this guy is in fact lying, that's criminal. That's just not. something subject in my opinion, not. just something subject to, you know, him. having to write her a check or somebody. having to write her a check for these. kind of damages if he can ever restore. >> What is it? Harassment. Is it criminal. harassment? I'd say at the very least. it's criminal harassment and you well. because defamation cannot be criminal. but damn you know maybe it ought to be.

in a case like this because her. reputation is completely ruined. No, but. let's talk about it. If this guy, and. this is her theory, and to your point, Mark, it's a good caution. We don't. know. I'm me backing her is just what my. gut tells me, having read his. allegations, but I've been wrong before. I've been wrong many times, so I could. be wrong here. But I if if her theory of. the case is right, he has made up the. most absurd, vicious lies. I mean, I. just I just pulled a couple of the. highlights from his complaint that she.

said, "If you don't f me soon, I'm going. to ruin you. Never forget I effing own. you. If you don't f my brains out. tonight, I'm going to sabotage your. promotion that she called him her little. Asian appetizer. My curry in a hurry. Little brown boy. Fall in line, brownie. I own you, brownie. I own your life, you. goo. Um, brown boy boy terrorist smelly. Indian curry man that the entire team. would call him. Um, you know, she. allegedly said, "I'm still your boss and. what I say here goes. Trust me, I own. you. If you don't f me soon, I'll ruin.

you. Never forget. I effing own you.". Um, she doesn't. hand she wasn't his boss anyway. >> before rubbing his neck and head. I. mean, this is vile stuff. You want this. executive director life? You want to get. paid like me? You're going to need to. earn it. My little Arab boy toy that she. proposition for oral sex in the office. Birthday BJ for the brown boy. My little. brown boy. Don't forget I own you. Don't. fight it. You smell so good. She. allegedly said two days later. I really. want to suck your long black you know. what right now. This could be you one.

day. referencing senior leaders as long. as you start pleasing me. It it's so. vile. It's so x-rated. And then actually. includes an allegation that she gave him. rohypnol and Viagra. >> so that she could knock him out but get. his unit to work. We actually promised. the the audience an answer to whether or. not that's medically possible. >> It turns out it might be. I don't. believe she did it, but it turns out it.

might be. We reached out to Dr. Zade uh. Fadul, a Harvard trained physician, US. Air Force flight surgeon, chief medical. officer at Woundare 360 and uh said all. of this would be extremely dangerous and. create cardio cardiovascular and. neurological uh risks, but said um. erectile function drugs can still work. despite severe sedation or. incapacitation. And this is a crucial. medical and forensic point. He says. erections come from two pathways. psychoggenic dri driven by conscious.

arousal in the brain and reflexogenic a. spinal reflex at the S2S S4 level that. works with conscious input. Rohypnol. knocks out the conscious uh psychoggenic. pathway but the spinal reflex arc is. reflectively protected from that top. down shutdown. So reflex erections could. still happen in a sedated or unconscious. person. Again an outrageous allegation. if untrue, even more outrageous if true, frankly. So why wouldn't there be a. criminal charge against him, Mark, if. all that stuff I just read to you is.

made up at a whole clutch just to ruin a. woman? >> Yeah, in theory there should be. I don't. know if there's anything on the books. where, you know, there there is some. criminal offense being committed. If he. reported this to law enforcement, then. there would be and and it's not true, then there would be a crime. What I'm. thinking of, though, is Jesse Smlette, right? The details were so extraordinary. and so outrageous. Initially, most. jumped on the bandwagon and said this, well, it has to be true. I mean, and and.

it totally wasn't. And the problem that. I have with it is not just what it did. in that moment, but what it does for. future victims. They have their word. questioned more so because of people. like this assuming this guy is lying. So, I agree with Janna. anything you can. do to harm this man in a lawful way is. coming his way and is justified based. upon the horrific actions that he's. taking assuming he's lying.

You know, John Adam Corolla was on the. air with me when this first broke and he. made a great point which is if she did. this stuff, there's going to be more. That is not the behavior of a one-timer, >> you know, who just unleashed that. torrent of alleged harassment and abuse, including an an alleged rape. >> just on one guy just, you know, he was. the first one. No way. There there. should be a line of guys who claim me.

too if this is real. But listen to this. more breaking news. Um, RA, the. plaintiff, now the defendant in the defamation. case, the man claiming he was harassed, just gave an interview to some paper. called The Juggernaut, which is a New. York-based news website that focuses on. South Asian news, and says, and I quote, "The biggest thing here is if you call. this fake, it's just gender inequality.". >> Says if the roles were reversed, what do.

you think would happen? So he's claiming. the reason we don't believe him is he's. a man. And I'm I will cop to that in. part. Chiru Rana is his name. Chiru. I. will cop to that in part because I. believe it is obvious that as. he writes in this complaint, >> she went down on him and gave him a. against his will. >> And instead of like getting out of. there, whatever, he just stood there. crying. That's his allegation. Time.

after time, he was drugged or he was. made to cryingly submit his penis for a. >> by her threats that he wouldn't make it. at JP Morgan Chase unless he did this. He's right. I don't believe that. And. there is a a gender dynamic at play. And. that's what but but that's where the. gender dynamic comes in. And I don't. mean to sound crass, but it's plumbing. Okay? She's not going to be able to. force herself on him. I if listen, if.

that were happening and he wasn't into. it, that would be quite quite obvious. And what was she doing? Throwing Viagra. and Rahypnol down his throat and and. rubbing his, you know, Adam's apple like. you're giving a pills to a dog. Like, how was he consuming those? Like, I. don't understand. Why is she going. >> Good, good question. >> Why is she going to some stranger's. apartment? Why is she throwing herself. on a man who clearly doesn't want to. just sits there and and cries through uh. fellatio apparently? Why? And and and to.

Adam's point, since we don't have men. coming out of the woodwork saying, "Yeah, this crazy did it to me. too." Don't you think if she were so. abnormal, friends, people in her world would be. like, "Oh, it was just a matter of time. We knew this was going to happen." Like, she seems like a perfectly uh. respectable person. She's had no issues. at this job for she's been there for 11. years. Like, you know, this kind of. thing would leave clues that just don't. seem to be there.

>> Yes, I agree with everything you said. And I think, look, I don't think this. case gets dismissed on the paper, right? Like on the on the pleadings, >> unfortunately for her, because she'd. love to see it dismissed, like for a. judge to read his complaint and say, "Absolutely not." But it's exactly the. wrong kind of case for that. He's he if. taken the way you judge a motion to. dismiss is the judge takes the. allegations as true. >> and says if I accept all of them as true. has this person's pled pleaded a case.

pled and pleaded are both correct I just. like pleaded better um the answer would. clearly be yes right. >> if everything he wrote is true. >> question of. >> JP Morgan should have to pay and a lot. right and a lot and so this will get. past the motion to dismiss phase it will. go into discovery meaning both both of. them are going to have to give def. depositions. His two witnesses will have. to go on the record and have their. credibility tested. All of his phone. records will be turned over. He cannot. keep those secret. We're going to see.

them all. Meta data, all the location. services showing where he was, where she. was on the various days in question. That's all discoverable. Even like car. data. Most people in New York don't. drive, but it's possible they have car. data that will be discoverable and will. show locations. like we're going to. learn. There are ways of kind of. learning the truth in modern day America. and I think we are going to learn it. So, you know, put a put a pin in that. case for now. Um, let's keep going. Can. you guys stay over a little bit today or.

do you have to scram? >> I'll hang with you, Meg. >> Yeah, I have to. >> Okay, I'll try not to abuse your your. time, but we we haven't gotten to a. couple of cases and we should. Um, there's Alec Murdoch. So, Alec Murdoch. gets a new trial. He's convicted of. double murder for killing his wife and. his son Paul, 19 years old and uh or no. the sorry there's there's yeah Paul was. 19 and Buster's older and um called a. family annihilator. He did it to.

generate sympathy for himself as his. financial world was falling apart. He. had embezzled from his law firm. He. didn't have the money uh in like the. firm accounts that he was supposed to. because he'd been spending it allegedly. on a drug habit. the news was tightening. around him on these financial crimes and. in order to make himself look. sympathetic. This is the prosecution's. theory. We don't know for sure why he. did it. He killed his wife and his son. It's very vile, awful story, but he was. convicted and then it just got. overturned because it turned out the.

clerk of court, this lunatic Becky Hill, decided to make it chitchat time with. the jurors practically every time they. walked by her as the trial was wrapping. up. She's so sweet. Look how like. matronly she looks with her little like. doily sweater, whatever. She looks She's. a liar. She's like a pathological liar. in my view. She manipulated the jury. The theory was she did it because she. was hawking a book. She had a ghost. writer who was writing it with her and. she thought she'd make more money. There. was actual testimony to this if the jury. found him guilty. She's a psycho. If.

like that's that was the testimony. So, okay, he got a new trial, which I agreed. with. is you had a juror testify. She. did say manipulative things to me about. his guilt and that was one of the. reasons I found him guilty. Ball game. That's it. Ball game. I don't have to. convince my two defense attorney friends. here with that. But now he Alec Murdoch. has filed a civil claim against her. saying you deprived me of my.

constitutional constitutional right to a. fair trial by an impartial jury. and he. wants her to pay up, saying if he gets. paid, the money is not going to go into. his pocket. It's going to go into a f a. defense fund that's paying out to his. victims. But he does want Becky Hill or. I guess maybe her state insurer, I don't. know, to have to pay. How do you like. this lawsuit, Mark? >> Okay, first of all, this was my rant on. the last positively legal. Um, it's. available on the MK True Crime Network.

Uh, you want to check it out. I can't. stand this Becky Hill. Okay. She knew. what she was doing. She She went in. there and and numerous times, it wasn't. just one comment. Numerous times said. things to jurors that tainted. >> this this fundamental due process that. we're supposed to have and turned it. into crap. So, anything you can do to. her to harm her further than the three. years she got, and by the way, three. years probation,

wrong P word. Okay. I really do believe. that she should have gone to jail for. her misconduct, for her perjury, all the. things that she did wrong. The lawsuit. against her, I don't know about that. I. think he should tattoo her name on his. shoulder prominently because she gave. him a get out of jail free card. Not. really, cuz he's stuck in there for the. federal thing. But now we have to say. allegedly wondering like. >> allegedly, >> were they were they possibly in. collusion? You know, was it possible.

like this was a deal? Johnny, your. thoughts? Oh, that would be verying very. interesting theory. I don't think so. I. think Becky Hill was really in it for. herself. Some of the stuff that came out. that she's having private meetings and, you know, private bathrooms with the the. four person on the jury and she was. literally telling them how to vote, don't listen to like that's insane. And. this person has a very big role in a. court because she's basically the right. hand of the judge. You know, you think. that she's, you know, mirroring whatever. the judge is probably thinking. It was.

horrible what she did. He deserves a new. trial. Will there be a different outcome. in the future? That's yet to be seen, but he absolutely deserved a new trial. because of her. Solely because of her. >> Okay. All right. We we carry over just a. bit on the opposite side of this break. Mark will be here. We'll find out about. Janna. I don't She might she may or may. not. Don't get too attached. Uh don't go. away. We have more. >> When there are supply constraints on. commodities, prices surge. You see it. with fuel prices with everything.

happening in the straight of Hormuz. And. you know what else is a limited. commodity? Gold. They mine it out of the. ground and when it's gone, it's gone. Governments cannot just print more of. it. And that's why everyone from central. banks to savvy savers consider. diversifying with gold. If you've been. thinking about it for years, but have. still never moved some of your savings. into physical gold, consider Birch Gold. Group. Now through May 29th, Birch Gold. is giving first-time gold buyers a. rebate of up to $10,000 on qualifying.

purchases. For details and a free. information kit on diversifying into. gold, text MK to the number 989898. Bridge Gold can help you convert an. existing IRA or 401k into a tax. sheltered IRA in physical gold. Text MK. to the number 989898 to see if you. qualify for a firsttime gold buyer. rebate of up to $10,000. Mark Igelar is the co-host of Positively. Legal and he's back with me now. Go and. subscribe. Wherever you get a podcast,

you can get this one. Just type in MK. True Crime and it will pop up or you can. type in Positively Legal if that's your. thing. Um, all the places you can get it. are listed if you just type in. mktrime.com as well. All right, Mark, great to see you again. Sorry that we. lost Janna, but she had some important. court stuff to do. Um, next case I. wanted to get to is what happened in the. Tyler Robinson prosecution this week. He. is the man accused of murdering our. friend Charlie Kirk. And they are having.

a lot of contention in advance of this. trial. It has not gone smoothly. It's a. it's a really fierce battle between the. prosecution and the defense on virtually. every issue. And this week was no. difference different. The prosecution. has decided that it wants to conduct a. it's chosen a preliminary hearing to. prove to the court that it has enough. evidence to go forward with the charges. against Robinson. And that's scheduled, but in advance of it, the defense uh. made a motion. And this is where I want.

to start. They want the press kept out. They didn't want the press to be able to. have access to the court house through. uh cameras when the actual trial goes. down. They didn't want cameras in the. courtroom and they lost that motion. The. judge said, "We're going to have. cameras. Well, we'll limit how they're. used, but we are going to have a. camera." Then they said, "All right, at. the preliminary hearing where the. prosecution has to show its cards and. say, "This is the case that we have. against him." And the judge makes a. decision about whether there's probable. cause to hold this guy over for trial.

he's going to um they said we want the. media out for most of that and the. prosecution said why they they don't get. kicked out like the press is there to. represent the people why would we kick. them out and the argument was that it's. necessary to protect Tyler Robinson's. right to a fair trial and to avoid. contaminating the jury pool in this. already high-profile case according to. the court filings and the arguments last. week they argued the media has already.

created prejuditial and misleading. coverage that some of the evidence. expected at the hearing may ultimately. turn out to be inadmissible at the trial. and so they don't want the media hearing. about it and reporting on it. Um, and. then I guess specifically they want us. not to have access to alleged discord. and text messages. That's a forum that. Tyler Robinson and his trans furry lover. Lance Twigs communicated on a lot.

Discord, it's like a gaming type social. media app where you can talk. Alleged. discord and text messages, purported. confession evidence, Tyler Robinson. alleged to have confessed, surveillance. and shooting videos, witness statements, and other forensic evidence. Um, so what. do you think is going to happen? And. I'll just start with that because it's. not unusual to have the media at a. preliminary hearing in a high-profile.

case. So, do they have a leg to stand. on? >> No. And let me just say this, this is. coming from someone who has been on the. receiving end of all the things they. complain about. Um, I can think of one. high-profile case in particular. My. client was getting killed in the media. and I'm referring to Scott Peterson, not. the one who killed his wife, but is the. other one that was accused of not. running in to kill the the killer at the. Parkland Marjorie Stoman Douglas. shooting. And everything. that they were printing seemed to be. against us. A lot of it was false. And.

there's no way to stop it. I mean, if. media wants to run with a story, they. can run with a story. This judge could. take some type of action. I don't think. the judge is going to just because the. defense is asking for it. And by the. way, every time the defense files a. motion, as much as we want justice, don't roll your eyes, people. That's. what you want. You don't want this case. being tried twice. So the defense needs. to do all those things on the checklist. to make sure to the appellet court.

they've rendered effective assistance of. counsel so that not if but when this. creep is convicted this won't come back. on appeal. >> The thing is it's always the case that. the evidentiary standard used at a. preliminary hearing is very different. from the one used at the trial. Like of. course more evidence is going to be. presented because the standards are. different and easier at the preliminary. hearing and the media always hears that.

and the way it's always handled is the. media is trusted to write in their. pieces. This is just a preliminary. hearing. This is just a preliminary. showing of what they might try to. introduce. It's not the final final. And. the media I mean and the and the public. probably disregards that. We don't know. But this this is handable. >> Yeah. >> I mean it's handled in every case. not. saying that the defense's argument is. meritless. In fact, like most legal. theories, the court's balance. So, on.

one side, the information that is. getting out there could potentially make. it more difficult to find fair and. impartial jurors. On the other side is. our right to have access to the truth, our right to see what's going on in our. court system. And when you balance that, knowing the history of high-profile. cases, how look at OJ, you know, look at. look at we can go on and on there. they're there's still there are still. people who can say in spite of what.

we've seen on TV, we can give the. defendant a fair trial and that's the. only standard. So yes, I think that it. favors showing people what really is. going. >> Oh, sure. case. Was there ever a case. talked more about than Casey Anthony? There might have been some equal, but I. wouldn't I don't think more. Maybe OJ, which was just the biggest of all time, but his is another good case. It was. discussed non-stop in the media. Both of. those two people were acquitted. >> That's correct. >> So, it is very possible to get acquitted.

notwithstanding ubiquitous media. coverage. I don't think the defense is. on to something here. I don't think the. judge is going to allow this, but you. know, it's a very high-profile, very. sensitive case, so I don't know. Here's. the second thing. They argued that the. prosecutors worsened the problem of. misinformation. in the media by giving an interview to. Fox News in response to a defense. submission.

that the prosecution felt was. misleading. And so this is reference to. the bullet casing and the autopsy which. went everywhere. Long story short, the. defense filed a motion seeking like the. underlying or additional ATF reporting. um on the bullet fragments and the. autopsy that was done on our friend. And. in the defense motion, they had language. that led a fair, you know, person to.

conclude the bullet fragment that was. found in the body did not match the gun. that Tyler Robinson had that day, that. it was a non-match, the way they worded. it. And this went everywhere. I remember. where I was when I read it. Like, holy. what? It was the headline on the. Daily Mail and before it could get like. revised at all, it it had already gone. everywhere and it really very much.

seemed like it was confirmation that. that guy's gun, that 306 gun from his. grandpa was definitively not the murder. weapon. So, the prosecution says that is why we. went out and spoke with very limited. media. And here is the one example that. is being objected to by the defendants. They gave a taped interview uh to a. reporter who put it in her package for. Fox News. And here it is. >> The examiners were not able to find. enough detail on the fragments to be.

able to make a determination as to. whether or not um they can tie the. bullet to the rifle. >> So, that's just a small snippet. out of. context doesn't make sense, but it was. the prosecution trying to say the fact. that they couldn't have an affirmative. match with what was left of the bullet. does not mean this bullet didn't come. from Tyler Robinson. >> Like saying that there's no fingerprint. evidence available doesn't mean he. didn't touch a weapon, let's just say.

So, they're just saying we can't we. don't have anything of value to present. to the jury to establish the bullet. coming from that gun, but we're not. saying it's inconsistent with that gun. Well, the defense is purporting to be. hopping and mad that the prosecution. went out and spoke to the press saying, "If you didn't like what we wrote in our. motion, you should have filed your own. motion. You should have objected to the. court. You could have called an. emergency a request for emergency. hearing. You could have handled it. inside this courtroom. But instead, you. ran to the media.".

>> And not only was that inappropriate, but. it violated rules of professional. conduct and the gag order in this case. So we pulled the rules of professional. conduct Mark. >> and this is what they say. Uh the gag. order itself says as follows reads as. follows. Lawyers. in this case uh shall strictly abide by. rule 3.6 of the Utah professional rules. of conduct. What does rule 3.6 say? It.

reads as follows. Rule 3.6 Six prohibits. a lawyer from making quote an. extrajudicial statement meaning out. meaning out of court that the lawyer. knows or reasonably should know will be. disseminated by means of public. communication will be you know public. >> so far that's what this is. >> and will check check so far. >> and will have yeah I agree so far. they've got them. >> and will have a substantial likelihood. of materially prejudicing an. adjudicative proceeding in the matter.

>> so did this have a substantial. likelihood of materially. prejudicing. this trial in any way? >> I don't believe materially. >> I don't believe so, but I would. certainly make the argument if I'm the. defense lawyer. Point is, stay off the. media. Why are you trying your case in. the media at all? If the defense didn't. raise this in the media if, and I don't. know all the facts, but let's just say. what you said is true. They the defense. filed pleadings, documents with the.

court. They didn't go on Fox News. They. didn't go out there and do a media tour. on their points. They filed something in. writing. The prosecution then should. just file something in writing and we. keep it in court. Them running to Fox. News, I think it's a fair argument that. they're, you know, going outside the the. rules of 3.6. >> It's not a bad argument actually now. that I think about it because. >> Yeah, that would be typically when. there's a gag order saying don't don't. talk about this case outside of this.

courthouse. >> Yeah. Um, and then you see an outrageous. motion and you as a prosecutor are. pissed. You're like, everyone now. believes that the gun definitively did. not match the bullet that was recovered. and I've got to stop this. I've got to. correct the record on this. Yeah. I. mean, typically what you would do is you. would file your own motion expressing. your outrage, >> right? Like you can be as pissed off as. you want in your pleading. >> and then the Daily Mail would have. gotten that too. They would have had a. day two headline, >> right? But instead, he spoke to the med.

So, you're right. He he actually could. have his hand slapped. I don't think. it's going to do much. Do you? Like, what would be the consequence? >> No. And they have their own PR people. You know, the question is, well, are. they going to pick it up the same way. they picked up the defenses thing? And. and you never know. So, just make sure. you got good PR people and you have. great relations with the media. Say, can. you make sure that this runs, you know, you do that behind the scenes and then. it runs and they're picking up from the. pleadings, not because you're going out. there and spewing your truth.

The prosecution's arguing they had a. right to speak to reporters to correct. misinformation about an inconclusive. preliminary finding by ballistic experts. saying here we were representing the. true nature of that report. We did not. make a statement of opinion about guilt. We'll see. Um okay. Meanwhile, they did. reveal this, Mark, that at the. preliminary hearing, the prosecution is. going to present not the actual trans. furry lover of Tyler Robinson, whose.

testimony is going to be very important. in this case. He's the one who allegedly. received the the confession from Tyler. Robinson, who was on the receiving end. of those texts and an alleged note. confessing. This guy's going to be. critical. >> I mean, if they believe this person, we're done. That's it. That's it. Yeah. >> Yep. he's he he's critical. So, but at. the preliminary hearing, they they've. revealed now that they're only going to. be presenting a video statement by this. guy. Um that clip will be the the first. public statement from Lance Twigs 22 uh.

since the murder. Now, they say he's. fled Utah. He's lying low in Texas. What. do you make of that? Is that a normal or. abnormal to take a key witness and just. show a video of him? completely normal. because you're talking about a judge and. the standard is much lower. If you're. talking about a jury, you get that. person in the jury box, you pay for them. to fly in, you put them up at a hotel, which is all lawful and totally normal. and typical, and you put them there so. they can look directly at the jurors. when you ask the questions so they can.

be believed and credible. This is just a. hearing in front of a judge. It's. typical. I a lot of these hearings, they. don't even do a video. They'll just say, "Here, judge. Here's a sworn statement. the detective took." And a judge who's. smart can just read it and accept it as. fact. You don't need to bring that. person in. >> Makes sense. All so illuminating. Thank. you as always, my friend. You are. positively legal. >> I'm trying, Megan. It's tough. It's. tough. Nobody's paying me to come in.

second place, Megan. It's rough to. defend people. Come on. >> You know, >> in the law and the news, it is. It is. tough to remain positive, but I I feel. like we've both we've both done a good. job of it. Generally generally speaking. >> Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate you. >> Lots of love. All right. Check out. Positively Legal wherever you get your. podcast. It's free. Um and I want to. tell you two things. This just breaking. here uh as we get ready to close out the. show. H sad news. Tulsi Gabbard is okay,

but she is stepping down. Tulsi Gabbard. producing the following statement. I am. deeply grateful for the trust President. Trump placed in me and for the. opportunity to lead uh the office of the. director of national intelligence for. the last year and a half. Unfortunately, I must submit my resignation effective. June 30th. My husband Abraham has. recently been diagnosed with an. extremely rare form of bone cancer. He. faces major challenges in the coming.

weeks and months. At this time, I must. step away from public service to be by. his side and fully support him through. this battle. Oh, that is just. devastating news on so many fronts. I am. so sorry to hear this about Abraham. They have a wonderful relationship and. it doesn't surprise me at all that with. that kind of diagnosis, she would step. away to go be with him. God bless her. and him as they take on this battle. that's daunting and dwarfs everything. On a separate note, I'm so sorry for us.

because we need her in that job. We. really need her in that job. You know, it just I'm so sad about it. because it feels like. this great sort of bipartisan. coalition that President Trump put. together is falling off as he rounds. into the year and a half mark of his. presidency. You know, Marty McCary was. pushed out at FDA.

RFKJ has had his wings clipped. repeatedly. by people who do not support the MA. agenda. Um, and Telsey Gabbard was, you. know, a great example of a Democrat, former Democrat, who went onto the Trump. team because we wanted to do things. differently. So was Joe Kent. he wasn't. a Democrat, but I'm just saying he was. more non-interventionalist and in an. important role and he stepped down from. the National Counterterrorism Center. after the Iran war. And Tulsi, who's. also non-interventionalist,

um, and is a is in a really important. role and has been very brave in it, I. must say. We It just sucks to lose her. There's not another Tulsi. That's the. problem. You can get another person to. run. Of course. Of course. There's lots. of people want to serve in President. Trump's administration, but there's only. one Tulsi Gabbard. This is an important. role. This is the person who oversees. all of the intelligence agencies and. like it's her job to come up with that. presidential daily brief and make sure. President Trump really knows what's what.

when it comes to the intel that these. agencies are putting together. My god, it's a huge job, especially with some of. these agencies that we do not trust. How. they try to manipulate a president into. pushing their own agenda. And those. agencies had to go through Tulsa. Gabbard, who's not easily manipulated. and is smart and had a background in. intelligence and in public service, having served in the House for many. years. And it's going to be tough. prayers for her, prayers for Abraham, thanks from a grateful nation, and uh.

prayers for President Trump that he. chooses somebody great and I don't know. if I can say just as great as Tulsa, but. just as interesting, unconventional, unique, and strong as Tulsi Gabbard has. been. Lots of love to all of you. I want. to tell you before we go that our. Memorial Day show is on Monday. We. feature war hero Allan Cmack. I can't wait for you to hear this. interview or watch it on YouTube. We sat.

down together right here in the red. studio and he was incredibly composed. He was stunningly impressive. and then we got to the story about him. planning. He's a helicopter pilot like. the if one of if not the most storied. helic helicopter pilot in the war uh in. Afghanistan. And we got to the story of. how when Marcus Latrell was missing. after his unit was killed, his three.

brothers in arms were killed and he was. missing and the entire military was. trying to find him, not knowing whether. he was dead or alive. His story featured. in the movie Lone Survivor. Um they. figured out that that they thought he. was alive and being sheltered by a. Taliban, not by a by an Afghani fighter. who was working with the US. Only problem was this is in the middle. of a village that was covered by. Taliban. And someone had to plan the.

mission, the highly daring, dangerous. mission of getting into this town, getting into this house, and seeing if. Marcus Latrell, a Navy Seal, was being. sheltered in there, was being hidden in. there by an Afghany. And that man was. Alan C. Mmac, who said, "I know exactly. how we need to do it with the decoys and. the explosions over here to divert and. what how the helicopter pilots would. have to get in and get out and what we. should do." And when I played for him.

the soundbite of Marcus and his. identical twin brother Morgan on the MK. show a couple years ago where we talked. at length about the lone survivor story. and these are two very close brothers. both became Navy Seals. um. one missing and as it would turn out, yes, being harbored by an Afghani fight. uh fighter and one with his family in. Texas, not knowing whether his identical. twin brother was dead or alive, but.

praying non-stop with his mom and his. dad and all of their family got the. call. And that moment where we play Morgan. Latrell. telling the story of what happened when. the call came in, the call that was made. possible by the planning that Alan Cmack. had done a world away. is a moment you are not going to want to. miss when you see Allan's reaction. I'm. still thinking about it. I've teared up. many times over the past couple of days.

since it's happened. He is a special. guy. And uh you know these war stories, they're important that we listen to. them. It's just a reminder of what our. guys have sacrificed, who they are, how. much it took. And uh you know, you can. do it on Veterans Day, you can do it on. Memorial Day, you can do it any old day, but it's especially important as we. remember the fallen on Memorial Day to. take a moment and talk to the ones who. survived about the ones who didn't and. the sacrifice that was made by those who. did live and those who paid the ultimate.

sacrifice along with their families. Lots of love to all of you. We hope you. get some good time with your families. and uh we will be back. We'll have that. episode air on Monday as a new episode. and then we will be back live on. Tuesday. See you then.