Ken Paxton Dominates Cornyn Ahead of Race Against RADICAL Talarico, Plus SHOCK Prince Andrew Stories

Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome. to the Megan Kelly's Show and happy. Wednesday. We have big revelations in. our second hour about Prince Andrew's. ties to Jeffrey Epstein. And it's unbelievable the new. revelations in this book. He not You. know, remember when he went on that. interview with the BBC and was like, "I. never touched Virginia Giuffre and I. don't sweat and therefore her her. account of us in that nightclub can't be. real because she said I was sweating.". Remember that whole thing? And eventually he kind of got pushed out. of the royal family as an official.

member. As a result of that and some alleged. disclosures he wasn't supposed to do. when he was the British envoy. But. according to this new book, which we. have the author of in the second hour, he. it wasn't just one 16-year-old or. 17-year-old girl. There were There's too. many to count. His practice He denies this, but his. practice was reportedly to everywhere he. went book two hotel rooms, one for where. he would sleep and one for his young.

latest tryst, and he liked them young. Again, he denies it, but we'll talk to. the author. Uh that there it was happening over and. over and over. Like, now I'm starting to. wonder whether his statements about. Virginia Giuffre were true only in so. far as like. he genuinely didn't remember her. There'd been so many. It's like they. weren't true him denying like ever. having been with her, but like I I'm not. convinced he did remember her. It she was not alone.

And we'll get into that and some other. big revelations including the massive. fight he had with Prince Harry over. Harry's terrible wife. It's a very. interesting new new book. Okay. But. first, huge news in the political world today. Last night, Ken Paxton, the Trump-backed. Attorney General of Texas, defeating. four-term incumbent Senator John Cornyn. in the Republican runoff to be the. party's nominee for US Senate. Now, it's.

not done. He's got to go to a general. election in November. We'll get to that. in 1 second, but huge win for Paxton. last night. Back in March, Senator Cornyn actually. receiving slightly more votes than. Paxton uh during the original primary, but because neither man crossed the 50%. threshold, the race moved to a runoff. And this time, thanks in part to Trump's. endorsement of Paxton last week, it was a blowout for Paxton. With over 95% of the votes counted, Paxton currently leading Cornyn by. nearly 28 points.

28. He went from like a very slight loss to. him to absolutely trouncing him. Senator Cornyn conceded last night. saying he would support the Republican. ticket and lamenting that voter turnout. was not higher. This is what happens in. these special elections, in these. midterm elections, too. People stay at. home. Some get the result they want, some don't. The ones who don't, who. didn't vote, have only themselves to. blame. Cornyn seems to feel that was his.

voters. Uh Paxton, for his part, was jubilant. and did not shy away from tying his. campaign victory to President Trump. When everyone in Washington told him to. abandon me and abandon the people of. Texas, he didn't listen. Instead, he gave his complete and total. endorsement. President Trump is the leader of our. party, and his endorsement in this most. powerful is the most powerful force in. politics. And I'm honored to have his support, and.

I look forward to working with him in. the Senate to deliver for Texas. MHM. PAXTON'S VICTORY SETS UP A contest now. between Paxton and this guy named James. Talarico. He's a member of the Texas. State House, a former middle school. teacher, who is currently a student at. Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary. with 1 year of class work remaining.

There's a news story on his. church today and what it's offering the. children. Let's just say when I went on. my little tour of other possible. Christian denominations besides. Catholicism, my husband's Presbyterian. I quickly. ruled out the Presbyterian church in our. town when I saw the pride flag flying in. front of it. Where Doug's from in the Philadelphia. area, they don't have the pride flag. It's basically just a bunch of wasps. But, uh Presbyterianism, it's hit or.

miss. Unlike Catholicism, we're usually. hardcore. Um. so this guy Talarico took academic leave. to run for Senate in a state where no. Democrat has won statewide office in. over 30 years. And yet, many serious political prognosticators. believe he could potentially be the one. to do it. Uh now, Representative Talarico's likely. to have his work cut out for him. All. right, thanks in part to his far-left.

statements about, for example, there. being six genders and also that Jesus. helped him reckon with his own. whiteness. >> [laughter]. >> Same. Yeah. Among others, watch watch this. God is both masculine. and feminine. and everything in between. God is non-binary. Modern science. obviously recognizes there are many more. than two biological sexes. In fact, there are six. For me, prophetic voices.

like Jesus have helped me reckon with my. own whiteness, my own masculinity, my. own certainty, my own ego. It's a never-ending process and it's a. painful process. Something that you love. that's not family or friends. I love I'm. just saying this cuz it's on my mind, the. trans children who showed up yesterday. at the state capitol to advocate for. their humanity. Christian. and being pro-choice are absolutely.

consistent. Because Christianity. is a feminist religion and Jesus Christ. himself was a radical feminist. And he went on to say that the Virgin. Mary was pro-choice. Memory serves. Um for Paxton, I mean, let's face it. It's. kind of obvious what you should do when. running against Talarico if you are a. Republican, especially in Texas. I think.

any of us would know exactly what to do. and Paxton absolutely does. Watch. This campaign is not about red versus. blue. It's about so much more. My opponent is the most extreme radical. the Democrats have ever nominated. He's. even running a vegan campaign, whatever. that is. He goes by a few names that you may all. have heard of. Some people know him as. Tofu Talarico. >> [laughter]. >> Some people call him six-gender Jimmy.

I've even heard some people call him. James Talarico. >> [laughter]. >> And others refer to him simply as low-T. Talarico. But no matter what you call him, let me. tell you this. James Talarico is a. threat to everything we hold dear dear. in this state and in this country. He's a threat to our security and our. safety. He wants open borders and even said a. said a welcome mat should be at our. southern border.

He's a threat to our children. He wants boys in girls sports. Gender mutilation surgery performed on. kids. And when asked what he loved outside of. his family for friends, you heard what. Brandon Gill said. His first answer was. trans trans kids. That's weird and. that's a radical guy. How's he wrong? Talarico for his part, seeking to make. the case about Paxton's character. Paxton has been previously indicted on.

securities fraud and even impeached, though he's never been convicted or. removed from office. Here's Talarico. last night. Watch. Something just happened in Texas. The. most corrupt politician in America just. became the Republican nominee for the. United States Senate. Three years ago, Ken Paxton was impeached by his own. party for using his public office to. enrich himself and his donors at the. expense of the people. That kind of.

corruption is the rot at the core of. this broken system. It's why we can't. afford anything. It's why we can't get. ahead, no matter how hard we work. Ken. Paxton has gotten away with it. They've. all gotten away with it, but that ends. this year. If we the people can come. together to defeat the most corrupt. politician in America, we can defeat. this entire corrupt system. We can start. unrigging this economy. We can start.

raising our pay, cutting our taxes, lowering our costs. We can finally get. ahead. It's time to come together. The. people versus Ken Paxton. That's clearly going to be his slogan. It's weird looking at him. It reminds. me, you know, I have a our youngest is. 12, Thatcher, and he has a little buddy. who, I mean, none of these boys has. really completed their puberty yet. They're they're all 12. And this this. boy's right, you know, he's very young, just like Thatcher. And he but he has.

the deepest voice. He has like a deep. man voice. It's actually kind of funny listening to. this, you know, kid when you're 12, you're pretty scrawny for the most part. You haven't developed any muscles yet. You know, they're they're working on it. Pretty much all of them working on it. But you're very young and you're very. fresh-faced. And yet his buddies got. this very deep voice. That's what. Talarico reminds me of. Like a little. boy with a unusually mismatched deep. voice. When you just listen to him, like. the people listening this on Sirius XM.

or on podcast, I think you would picture a much larger, more manly man. Then you see this guy and it's like. don't don't you have like to get back to. school for your PE class? Look at him. Yeah, just like. He looks like he needs to wear a tie, too. And he's one of those politicians. who should be praying that he goes. prematurely gray just to be taken a. little bit more seriously. Yeah, so this. is I just think I think Ken Paxton is. going to make mincemeat of this guy. That's my own personal I think he's just.

going to crush this kid. I do. But I could be wrong because the polls. are showing something different as of. today. They show a tight race. With Talarico leading by 1.5 points over. Paxton in the Real Clear Politics. average. Now, Paxton has been getting. hammered by Cornyn in ad after ad after. ad. That's not going to stop. They are. just going to switch to now paid and. funded by Talarico, but. question query whether all the bad.

Paxton attacks have already been. factored in. by at least Republicans. Like will they. really depress turnout for Paxton? I. don't know. I don't think so. I think. Cornyn would have depressed turnout for. Republicans. Um. But look, let's ask somebody who's. actually full-time in the business of. politics, well, sort of. His name is Tom Bevan. He's the. co-founder and president of Real Clear. Politics. >> [music]. >> and he's co-host of the show on Sirius. XM. on the Megan Kelly channel right before. this one. Don't miss a moment. Subscribe to this.

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that code Megan when you check out to. get 30% off your first subscription. order. armra.com/megan. Tom, welcome back. So, I don't know. What's What [music] does. your gut tell you? I just think that Ken. Paxton's going to wipe the floor with. this. fresh-faced, six-gender, Jesus-is-non-binary. guy. >> [laughter]. >> You know, I. I don't know that it's he's going to. wipe the floor with him, but I still. think this is an uphill battle for the.

Democrats, right? They dream of turning. Texas blue. It almost happened in 2018, Beto O'Rourke against Ted Cruz. He lost. by about 2.6 percentage points. That's. as close as they've come, as you. mentioned, in 30 years to winning a. statewide race. And and so, it's going. to be amazing if if this guy, James. Talarico, turns out to be the guy who. does turn Texas blue, because to the. points that you were just making, he. doesn't even He doesn't even code like. he's from Texas at all. Um. he talks about running a vegan campaign.

and all these things. You know, they. nominated last time around they. nominated Colin Allred who's like a big. strapping former football star from the. state, you know, I mean at least he. seemed like a a Democrat that could win. in Texas and he got destroyed. Now, both times uh you know, the last couple. races Trump has been on the top of the. ticket and that has really helped. Republicans. This is a situation where. Trump is not on the top of the ticket. and so in some ways it's a best case. scenario for Democrats. They're going to. be unified, they're going to turn out in.

full force to vote for this guy. And then the question is can Ken can Ken. Paxton. uh you know, will his troops turn out? There's going to be a slice of. Republicans who voted for John Cornyn, right? Who are not going to vote for Ken. Paxton and it's not going to be a huge. slice, but it's going to be uh you know, it's going to be a few percentage points. and all those percentage points are. going to matter. Are they going to vote. for James Talarico? I don't believe so. I think they'll just stay home and. they'll just say, "I'm I'm going to sit. this one out." Um so you combine those. things total, you know, unity on the.

Democratic side, you know, a little. depression on the Republican side and. some points that slip away and then. independents, but uh you know, you're you're right. I mean, this is. going to be it's going to Talarico is. going to try and keep it focused on the. economy and issues and and corruption, but on the Republican side this is all. going to be culture war stuff. I mean, this is all going to be this guy cannot, you know, Ken Paxton's argument is. basically going to be, "Look, I'm a. flawed guy. You may not like me, but. you can't elect him cuz he's crazy and.

he has all these radical uh ideas about. immigration and sexuality and religion. and all these things and he's just he's. too far outside of the mainstream for. Texas. And so I I agree with you, Megan. I think I think uh I don't think it's. he's going to wipe the floor with him, but I think Ken Paxton, you know, if I'm. putting money down on it, and he's still. the favorite. It's still an uphill. battle for Democrats in Texas. I just feel like okay, so Texas has. Austin. Which reminds me of my kids little state. capitals. Like Texas has Austin, then we.

go north to Massachusetts, Boston, California No, Albany, New York. Anyway, if you have young kids, you know you. have to memorize this song to get the. state capitals down. So Texas has. Austin, which is blue. But the rest of Texas is still pretty. red. I mean, I was just down there in. the fall in Sugarland and in uh Fort. Worth and in San Antonio on my tour. And I did I met thousands and thousands. of Texans. They They These people are never going.

to vote for Talarico, no matter if they. have some issue with Ken Paxton or for. that matter Trump or not. They're These. are die-hard red, white, and blue. Americans who will never vote for. someone who says there's six genders. Hell no, they're not going to. And in. fact, whatever they think about Paxton, this will make them get off their. couches and make sure that this. ridiculous person doesn't win. I I'm. going out I'm saying it on the record.

It's not going to happen. I think I. think Paxton's going to win. He's going. to win easily. Um I don't think Cook. Political Report is right to move this. race. now that Paxton's the nominee from. likely Republican to just leans. Republican with a warning that they. might be moving it to toss-up depending. on how things go. I disagree, Cook. Um. You may know political races, but I know. Texas. I just I know that state and I. know the voters down there. It's just no. way are they going to vote for. this guy. Just can't. Okay, that's just where I am.

But now he knows he's in trouble, Talarico does, because let's face it, they went with the red meat Republican. And good, like good, because I do think. he can generate enthusiasm in a way. Cornyn couldn't. With all due respect to. I think he's a good man, but. pretty swampy and I'll get to that in a. second. So, they went with a red meat uh. Republican, and already he's started. launching his attacks, Tom, on Tall. Rico, and you heard some of it there. Um. He's work- He's He's workshopping some. some nicknames, I see.

I like it. I'm into them. But, the vegan thing is interesting. because. that What do you associate What do you. think of when you think of Texas? You. think of cowboy hats, rodeos, steak, um Wrangler jeans, and their love of. their state. That's what I think of when. I think of Texas. And uh. you don't go to Texas and say, "I'm a. vegan." In the same way you don't go to. Iowa as a politician and say, "I don't. eat corn." Like, there's just certain. things are not done. But, he did it.

because he's an idiot. He's a woke. leftist dope. So, here Let me start with what he's saying. now, this Tall Rico guy. He went on with. the Midas Touch guys, that's a Democrat. podcast, and tried to claim it's not. true. We heard Trump last week being. like, "He's a vegan. He's a vegan.". Yeah, right. It's vegan. It was funny. Trump's like, "I don't even know what. that is. All I do is eat McDonald's.". And um. he tried to deny any piece of that on.

this podcast, and a new ad he's put out. tries to deny it, too. Watch. And you know, I'm an eighth-generation. Texan. I've been eating barbecue since. before Ken Paxton's first indictment. And if all they have on me is lying. about me being a vegan, I feel pretty. good about our chances this November. And you're absolutely right. You know, so many of my family members, my my. friends, my neighbors who voted for. Donald Trump in 2024, they voted for him because they thought. he was going to lower costs. They.

thought he was going to end the forever. wars. They thought he was going to. release the Epstein files and drain the. swamp. But, just 1 year later, they've. seen how he's done the exact opposite. So, there's a lot of disillusionment. And what I'm trying to do is speak. directly to those Texans who feel. disillusioned, who feel like the system. doesn't work for them, that it only. works for billionaires and puppet. politicians like Paxton and Cornyn. And. I think if we can bring those Texans. >> we get the general message. You you you. get it. And I would like to speak to.

those disaffected Texans as well. I I. too am against the war in Iran. I do. want the Epstein files disclosed without. Trump objections. I would never in a. million years vote for this lunatic. It. doesn't matter. No president is perfect. You cannot vote for that man. I like you. cannot do it. You are actually. physically endangering the children of. Texas and beyond because this is a US. role, a federal role that you're. electing this next candidate to. So, no. But there he is denying that he.

is a non-meat eater and, you know, scoffing at the vegan charge. And just. today we saw what came out in mid-March. He put out um. a picture of him. It reads, "Official. statement from James Talarico. on vegan accusations." And it shows him. in a Texas red, white, and blue shirt. eating an enormous piece of beef at a. barbecue. Okay? And and you know, you heard him. there like, I I've been eating barbecue. forever. Well, it's not true. It's This.

is not a made-up thing. In 2022 when he. was running for the Texas State House, listen to what he said. Sat 10. We have I think heard more and more. issues of animal welfare. I think not. just because it's the right thing to do. and the moral thing to do, but also it's. as all of you know, necessary to fight. climate change. It is now existential. that we try to reduce our meat. consumption and that we try to respect. animals in all aspects of society. And. so I I am proud to say that our campaign.

has officially become a non-meat. campaign. So, we. have. We are. We are only buying vegan products from. from our local vegan businesses. Some of. you may know Big Nonna's. They They were. Little Nonna's and then they opened up a. brick-and-mortar another Big Nonna's, but we just got our pizza from there. today. And so. the point is that I think all of us not. just policy makers, but but everyone has. to take personal responsibility. in this effort.

You are busted. And why are you wearing. a mask in 2022? That's a deal breaker in. and of itself. But he's so busted, Tom. It's right there on tape. He's not going. to be able to get away with this. >> No, and that's the problem with with all. these comments. I mean this is not. This is just Republicans playing his his. own words to the public. And he So he's. not going to be able to get away with. saying they're lying about me. They're. taking me stuff out of context. It's all. right there. You know, this reminds me, Megan. You.

remember white dudes for Kamala Harris? I mean you know, the idea that they're. trying to win over you know, male. voters. And so he gets accused being. vegan. What does he do? He goes and like. gets this giant, you know, piece of meat. like this turkey leg thing and tries to. pretend like he's eating. it. >> it's just it's. like like they don't know how to do it. I mean he's he clearly does not know. how to. act like an like a like a manly man. I.

mean, I don't know how else to put it. >> Yes. >> [clears throat]. >> And so that's going to be. >> That's going to be a real problem for. the campaign. And obviously the Paxton. folks are going to get as much mileage. out of that as they can. So he is in fact on record as showing. that he has been eating vegan. I mean, what. Well, what what like what could be the. possible alternative? You weren't eating. vegan in your personal life, but you. tried to tout that your campaign ate. vegan. Like were you lying then or now? Did you.

want the electorate to believe you were. a vegan cuz you you thought it would. help you then? But you were secretly. going home at night and eating that. enormous piece of beef that you're. showing us in that picture? Well, then. you were lying. You were you were being. disingenuous when you said that with. your double mask in 2022 in front of a. group, whatever it was. Uh um like you. can't have it both ways. So, now he. says, "I've been eating meat since. before he first got indicted." And he. shows the huge When did you pick it back. up? I mean, honestly, this. podcaster should have said, "When did.

you start eating meat again?" Because. you made a point out of saying you. didn't eat it in the 2022 campaign. Were. you trying to make a distinction between. your personal life and your professional. life? Isn't that a distinction without a. difference? I'm pretty sure if you're a. vegan, you're round-the-clock vegan. I'm. not It's like what when my. brother-in-law, whose wife had declared they're going. vegan, was like secretly sneaking beef. and he and we're like, "Aren't you guys. vegans now?" And he was like, "I don't. like labels.". >> [laughter].

>> Right. No, >> [clears throat]. >> it's uh. Again, he's not going to be able to get. away with it cuz it's all on tape. Excuse [clears throat] me, but even the. broader context of that clip. >> but here's the other thing the other. piece of it. Now, I'll I'll give it back. to you, but the other piece of it is. just like they do care whether you eat. beef down in Texas. I actually think. that they do care. But But um the the. lying, he's clearly lying. Already. Like. like that's the kickoff to his general. election campaign is a big fat lie on. the MidasTouch podcast. Go ahead. >> Yeah, no. I. Even the rest of the context of that.

clip, right? When he's talking about. animal welfare and climate change and. tax I mean, it's like, "Really? This is. You know, and again, he gets applause. >> Cut to. the Fred Flintstone on the bone. >> Yeah, no. And he gets applause cuz he's. cuz he's speaking to this niche group of. of far-left sort of progressives. You. mentioned Austin, but there's also, you. know, Houston, all the all the urban. areas are have gotten. uh have gotten more left-wing over time. in Texas with all these folks who've. moved in. And that's quite frankly the.

Democrats' hope. There are 18. 18.6 [clears throat]. million registered voters in Texas now, which is up from up 5% from just the. last cycle. So, it's been growing. And that's why Democrats think they have. a chance at at finally turning Texas. blue because they've got all these. imports from California and elsewhere. Mhm. Um, I'm going to give you. a little bit from Jesse Kelly, um, also a resident of the MK channel on. SiriusXM. And, uh,

he lives in Texas, in Houston, and he has been very, very clear. that Senator John Cornyn needed to lose. this race. And it's interesting to me because. the establishment, for lack of a better. term, Republicans. on Capitol Hill. did not want Paxton at all. Right. Like. there was a report last week that John. Thune, when he heard of Trump's. endorsement, was like, you know, "The. president's going to do what he thinks. is right." And the report was he then.

threw up his left arm. Which, if you. know anything about John Thune, they. were they pointed out, is it like a. dramatic statement? You know, he's a. very measured guy. But clearly he was. frustrated. And that's him being. diplomatic, but he was frustrated. And. the more moderate Republicans, and and. he's at the top of the Republican food. chain in in the Senate, and they thought Cornyn would be an. easier candidate to get across the. finish line in a general election cuz he. doesn't have this same baggage that Ken. Paxton has. Cornyn has different.

baggage. And it really is kind of. interesting on. whether this race is something about. where the Republican party is going. You know, I I get it. Like let's check. Paxton's baggage for a second cuz he. wasn't convicted either when he got. impeached cuz an impeachment is like an. indictment sort of in the. in the legislature that then you have to. be convicted on. The same way Trump was. not convicted in the Senate of his. impeachments, neither was Paxton. He did He did face an indictment. criminally that he somehow managed to.

kind of beat. He never pleaded guilty, but then he did agree to a mild. punishment. In any event, put that to the side because. the the like brash. middle finger. starting millions of fights, this guy I. love Ken Paxton because I love all the. legal fights he's chosen. Like over the. years, every single one I've been like, yes. Yes, who is this guy? This is. amazing. You know, like every single. thing he's taken so he's not afraid. And.

you know, Cornyn again doesn't seem like. a bad person, though swampy. But just. like two you you scratch my back, I'll. scratch yours. And I do wonder, I'm. going to play this soundbite, you tell. me whether this tells us something about. the mindset of Republicans in Texas and. beyond about where they'd like to see. their party go. Watch. I mean, everybody. talks about RINOs and draining the swamp. and Washington D.C. corruption. I mean, John Cornyn is the face of all that. John Cornyn as a Texas senator is an.

amnesty guy. He's talked about it. multiple times how he wants to do an. amnesty deal for illegals. After that. horrible Uvalde school shooting, John Cornyn was the one who worked with. Democrats to pass gun control. legislation. John Cornyn has screwed. over the right time and time and time. again. But John Cornyn is insanely. powerful. He's a very high-ranking. Republican and he keeps the swamp full. And John Cornyn's one of these guys who.

keeps a lot of pockets full in D.C. Of. course, it's always taxpayer money. He. finds a way to to to get money spread. around Washington D.C. like so many of. these long-established senators do. And. then miraculously, when he comes up for. re-election, instead of having a normal. war chest, John Cornyn had a hundred. million dollars to spend on the primary. alone. Why do you think they did that? Because they love his winning. personality? They did that because the. guy spent 20 plus years funneling money.

back to them and he's going to spend the. next six doing the exact same thing. It's all about money and power. It's. everything gross that grosses normal. people out about politics is this exact. race right here. Pretty good, Tom. What do you think? Yeah, there's definitely something to. it. I mean, I don't know that Cornyn was. was seen as as corrupt, but he. definitely. you know, he was seen as part of the. establishment and and that's not where. the base of the party is. I mean, this. is the lesson for for all of these. politicians and we see this on the left.

and the right, which is when you stop. responding to the the wants and desires. of your constituents, you're going to. get replaced. And that's exactly what. happened. He was he was not responding. to the MAGA base in Texas. He was still. running sort of the George W. Bush, you. know, Republican Party playbook in. Washington, D.C. And so, he was promptly. shown the door. And as you mentioned at. the top of the show, I mean, Paxton was ahead in the polls, but I. don't think anybody saw it being a. 30-point blowout, which is what it ended.

up being. And so, uh I think that was a. pretty emphatic uh answer by the by the. base of the party in in Texas that they. had had enough of this guy and they. wanted somebody new who who they feel. like is going to fight for what they. want. Yep. Jesse's show is called I'm right. and I'm I think he's feeling that way. today. Um. back to the now uh Paxton-Talarico. matchup, there was a little debate about. this on CNN between David Axelrod and.

Scott Jennings. Both, I think, doing a. pretty good job of articulating what. we're going to see over the next couple. months as this fight starts to to out. And this is a big one. This is a big. one. Democrats feel like this could be a. a Dem pick up. And um they feel like. Republicans have just helped them. So, it's interesting to hear what Axelrod is. saying and how Jennings is defending it. and you know, preview of the next few of. the summer months. Watch. The Texas economy isn't great. People have concerns about. affordability. The Hispanic vote in.

Texas, which was very strong for Donald. Trump in 2024, uh is now uh a uh you know, by double. digits in Talarico's corner in this. race. I don't think security fraud is is. mainstream in Texas or some of the other. problems that Paxton said. I don't think. paying $6 million or millions of dollars. out to whistleblowers because of the. abuse of them by Paxton Mhm. they blew.

the whistle on is mainstream. I don't. think that's what people think in Texas. >> think six genders, no meat, and calling. the American flag a complicated symbol. >> Well, well, well, those issues fight it. out. What I think at the end of the day, people are going to want someone who's. going to speak to their concerns. And. this is not their main concern. We ran. that race in '24, Trump got elected. I'm. not sure it's going to play in '26. >> learned nothing. Mhm. But you heard Axelrod try to wiggle on. those accusations by Jennings. I mean, we've already gone through them. They're.

on camera. The wiggling is not going to. fly. He's said what [clears throat] he's. said. It wasn't in the distant past. You're going to have to deal with it. He. actually is very radical, this guy. And. no amount of um ribs dripping in. barbecue sauce will save him. All that. is required to sink him is an exposure. of things he's actually said. Similar to. Kamala Harris, frankly. Uh but those are sort of the battle. lines. And Ken Paxton, you tell me, Tom, cuz we I hadn't actually.

been paying that much attention, to be. honest, to his. issues in his past. Um. but there are quite a few. He's got a. fair amount of baggage. >> Um do does any of them stick, do you. think? Do do any of them stick around. and actually gain traction now that it's. Dem versus Republican in Texas? >> Well, I I look, I think and you saw it. Tal Oberic he's going to he's going to. argue you know, corruption and that he's. corrupt and that he's part of, you know, the Republican Party from top to bottom. from Trump and his, you know, $1.8.

billion. any weaponization {slash} slush fund and. in the ballroom and all that stuff that. Ken Paxton is just a a a corrupt foot. soldier in Trump's, you know, corrupt. Republican army. Um will that have some. some. uh some sway with voters? Yeah, probably. a little bit. Certainly the economy is. still the number one issue and that that. that is going to be where I think Tal. Oberic is going to make his his best. points is that look, Trump promised all. these things, he didn't deliver. I'm. going to go and try and deliver.

uh on on behalf of of Texans. However, um and you're right, Ken Paxton has he's. got issues. He's got marital issues in. his past. I mean, all these things are. going to be sort of in the background. But Tal Oberic is just, as we've talked. about repeatedly, look, Tal Oberic has I. think he raised a earth-shattering, it. was like a record-setting $27 million in. the first quarter. They're going to spend 200, 250 million. dollars on this race when all is said. and done, both sides. It's going to be. an absolute bruising battle. And so,

both of these candidates are going to. take their hits. But eventually the. public is going to be fully informed. about both these candidates and they're. going to have to stand on stage. one-on-one and Ken Paxton is going to be. able to, you know, and Tal Oberic is. going to have to defend those. statements. And he may try and say, "Well, he's lying about me. I never said. this." But to your point, I don't think. that's going to fly if you've seen on. television for 6 months him actually. saying all of these things. So, Yeah. >> Um it's going to be it's going to be a. an absolute barnburner of a race and. obviously, you know, this is a race that.

Republicans would rather not spend all. of the time and hundreds of millions of. dollars on. They'd rather be spending it. on other races in other parts of the. country, but but we are where we are. It's It is going to be an interesting. case test case because both both bases. got what they want, right? The. Democratic base got their left-wing. darling who who they think is going to. finally turn the state blue, and. Republicans got their MAGA red meat guy. who's going to, you know, take it to. them. And so, we'll see. It's going to. be fun to watch.

Yeah. Uh that I word on the economy. For. the first time um. in recent days, the rate of inflation is. higher than the. than the uh wage growth across the. United States. So, people's wage growth. is not keeping up with the price of. inflation. Wage growth was I think 3.6, and inflation is 3.8. That's not good. That's going to become. a Democratic talking point. Yet another. reason why we need to get inflation. down, why we need to wrap up the war, why we need to like actually focus on.

economic issues if we want to continue. seeing people like Talarico get. defeated. Um I want to talk about. Paxton's past, but I just as a quick. side aside, I mentioned it in the intro. Talarico, uh he goes to the St. Andrew's. Presbyterian Church where he's working. on I'm becoming some sort of a minister. And uh The Daily Wire reporting this. morning, there the children have access. to a library stocked with banned books. that promote ideas rejected by most. Christians, including books that contain.

descriptions of anal rape, incest, and. oral sex. Um. there is. a book called Gender Queer. We've talked. about that before. All All Boys Aren't. Blue, which discusses. anal rape and incest, sorry. Other books. in the church catalog include This Book. Is Gay, Trans Kids Are Kids, Called Out: The Voices and Gifts of LGBTQ. Presbyterians, The Courage to Be Queer, Becoming Nicole, The Transformation of.

an American Family, which is about a boy. who's. trying to turn into a girl, which is not. possible. Um. This Book Is Gay has a chapter on the. ins and outs of gay sex. I mean, I think. we can figure it out. And this is being. offered in. in a church, in a Presbyterian church. that he attends and where he'd like to. become a minister. The book, The Courage. to Be Queer, claims that God is queer, which. dovetails well with his belief that God. is non-binary.

So, it's not a it's not a one-off. And this is the same church where. Tallarico delivered his sermon that. asserted our trans community needs. abortion care, too. Needs abortion care. Like, this guy, Tom, it this. this can't they I if not only would I be. excited to run against him if I were Ken. Paxton, but I'd be thrilled on the. national Republican level to to hang. this guy like an albatross around the. neck of every Democrat, same as they're.

going to do with Mom Donny. Do you agree. with that? Do you Where do you stand on. this? Do you support his candidacy? Do. you believe that there are six genders? Do you think that God is queer? Do you. think that transgender people need. abortion care? Like, That's what they should do over and over. and over. There should be 10,000 ads. almost immediately. You across the country talking about how. radical these Democrats are, how they've. learned to be a little quiet about it, but this is who they're nominating.

Yeah, it's uh. Look, [clears throat] I'll just go back. This is not California. This is not. Illinois. This is not New York. This is. Texas. And so, that story, while in in those. other blue states it might not be seen. as as big of a deal, I think this this. story is going to haunt him. Uh and and. you know, we'll see also how the the. handles him and whether they hold his. feet to the fire and they ask him tough. questions about things like this story. or they just kind of give him a pass and. that that remains to be seen cuz even.

the media in Texas. uh is you know slant to the left for the. most part. So, you know, it's. interesting too Megan. You talk about. >> [clears throat]. >> and we talked about this a little bit on. our program. cuz we talked about Grant Planter and. and you look at these candidates. I mean. it it is going to be astonishing if in a. year which which is seen as like a blue. wave year. Democrats are almost certainly going to. take the House of Representatives and. and and you know, gas is $4.5 a gallon.

Trump's approval rating is at its lowest. level in his second term in our RCP. average and Republicans are are sort of. fighting uphill battles. If Democrats. throw away three Senate races that they. could win in Texas and with Grant. Planter up in Maine and if they nominate. El Sayed in Michigan, that could be. another one that Republicans actually uh. win a seat. So, um and we've seen this. happen in the past. Republicans have. done it. They did it with Sharon Angle. when she was running against Harry Reid, Christine O'Donnell, Todd Akin. It.

happens even in good years for a party, they they. nominate someone who is so far outside. of the mainstream that they can't get. them across the finish line even with a. big tailwind and that's that might be a. situation that that Democrats find. themselves in and not just not just. Texas but other states as well. Mhm. It's a it's a very good point. The. Paxton issues. relate to his behavior. for the most part in office. He also is. accused of having a couple of affairs.

on his wife. I'm not sure Republican. voters care about that anymore. You. know, look look who our president is. Like I kind of feel like mhm. the argument. like by Heather McDonald that like you. can't regulate eros she says. Um do you remember can I just make a. a quick comment? Do you remember in the. 2000 election when the biggest story was. that George Bush had gotten a DUI like. 20 years before and that was the big. dirt that dropped the weekend before I.

mean that wouldn't even make a ripple in. today's environment. >> would Ken. >> And I agree with you that the idea of. like like you know an affair here and. there is so passe now it's it's like I. don't know that anybody cares about that. anymore. On either side. I know I'm like. okay so he has been unhappily married. got it okay. Um. But. They may care about some of these I. don't know I'll I'll tell you what it. is. So my team has done this research. and used among others ABC in Texas.

Several months after taking office as. attorney general in 2015. He was indicted on felony securities. fraud charges in Texas. And was accused of misleading investors. in a company years earlier. So securities fraud in connection with. his time in the private sector. Um. And he would he would have faced decades. in prison if convicted. The case dragged. on for nearly nine years. It ended in a. pre-trial agreement in March 2024 that. required him to complete community.

service and pay restitution but he did. not have to enter a plea under the deal. So that means he's not technically. convicted but he made this case go away. by paying some money and doing some. community service. That's an amazing. outcome. Uh uh for anybody charged with. a crime. Anybody would take that. I. don't know how he got it but good for. him cuz that's a good outcome. Along the. way he also faced a civil case based on. similar allegations brought by the SEC. but that was thrown out by the judge in. 2016.

So the SEC could not make the case. against him and clearly the um federal. securities fraud charges brought against. him in Texas. The prosecutor didn't did not have faith. in making them in court because they. wouldn't have agreed to such a. sweetheart deal for Paxton if they. believed in them. So, I've got an. asterisk on both of those. on that particular controversy about his. federal security fraud charges. I've got. an asterisk. I It's not great, but I. don't I don't think they got him. Uh then in 2020, a group of top Paxton.

deputies reported him to the FBI voicing. concern. that he was abusing his office. Now, these are Paxton deputies, so these are. going to be Republicans. These are not. Democrats doing a hit job on him. But uh they're top Paxton deputies who. reported him to the FBI voicing concerns. that he was abusing his office as the AG. to help an Austin real estate investor. and political donor by the name of Nate. Paul. Some of the Paxton employees. resigned, but four were fired, and they.

later sued Paxton under the Texas. Whistleblower Act. He fought bitterly. with the former aides in court and in. public branding them rogue and. disgruntled. And in 2025, a Travis. County District Court judge agreed that. the former aides were improperly fired. and awarded them $6.6 million. Paxton appealed, but then dropped his. appeal a few months later after. announcing his Senate campaign. So, he. abandoned his appeal, and it appears to. be acknowledged then that he owed those.

four fired alleged whistleblowers $6.6. million. The FBI investigated the whistleblower. claims against him, but the Justice Department declined to. prosecute. And you may think, "Ah, that's Trump. He endorsed him." No, it. was Joe Biden's DOJ that said, "There is. no there there. There's. whatever. This is a civil matter, if. anything." And they declined to pursue. it. Um the the the.

DOJ did not go after Paxton. The claims. by the whistleblowers were central to. the impeachment that was brought against. him in the Texas House in 2023. That was. a Republican-controlled body. that impeached him, but he was acquitted in the Senate uh on. all 16 articles of impeachment that were. brought against him, including one that. accused him of bribery and so on. So, that it's a checkered history, for sure. I guess, you know, politics, as they. say, Tom, it ain't beanball.

No, it's not. And [clears throat] And look, it's the most damning part about that is. that it was, you know, the. whistleblowers were Republicans, and he. was impeached by Republicans, because. that is something, you know, you can't. just wave away. It's like, "Oh, it was a. partisan witch hunt." Right? Um and. that's obviously what Tallarico is going. to And this And the $6 million. settlement uh is is also something that. Tallarico has already talked about, and. whether that was, you know, you know, spending taxpayer payer money.

to clean up after this corrupt guy. I. mean, he's going to continue to use that. as a as an argument. So, yeah, he's got. baggage. I mean, everybody knew about. this ahead of time. They knew about the. infidelity stuff. Uh. and so, you know, they But they But they. nominated him warts and all. And And so, this is what the Republican Party. wanted, and it's what they got. And. again, we may look back at this and say, "It was a terrible decision by Donald. Trump to wade in and endorse him. He. probably was going to win anyway." Um.

and And maybe maybe Republicans are the. ones who have nominated someone who's. outside the mainstream and will cost. them a race that they probably would. have otherwise won. I don't know. >> Oh, boy. Yeah. Well, one of these two. One of these people is going to be too. radical for Texas, and it's clearly. going to be Tallarico. Uh but anyway, the um. the This is the reason Thune threw up. his arm, you know, because Thune, of. course, thought Cornyn was going to be. easier to get across the finish line in. November. And then By the way, the. polling data didn't totally support. that, either, Megan. It was like.

Tallarico and. >> Who didn't What didn't The data the. general election match ups you know corn. was running like a point better than. then which is basically statistical. noise. I mean they were basically. Republicans were running even against. Ted Cruz I think he was leading by a. point and a half and one and a half a. point in the other or something like. that. It was it was not some dramatic. like John Cornyn is going to win this. race by 10 points and Ken Paxton is. going to lose it by five. I mean it was. basically this basically the same. Well, Thune and other top Republicans.

are reportedly also worried about the. money in the Republican coffers. saying we don't have Ken Paxton is they. say notoriously bad at raising money. and that this is going to cost the the. national GOP a hundred million dollars. which they didn't have to spend that. Cornyn would have been a shoo-in. I. don't know but that's apparently another. objection that the more establishment. Republicans have really one of the. things that this came down to though Tom. in my estimation from my corner of the. world is the Save Act.

Because. the Save Act is this federal bill that. would require voter ID everywhere on a. national level among other things. It. would just tighten up the voting. restrictions or requirements. state-to-state for these elections. and. there's no way of getting it passed. without getting rid of the filibuster or. changing the filibuster in some way. You can switch to the. you know requiring the actual verbal. filibustering where like you can't just. say we filibuster and they say okay it's. filibustered or screwed.

You could bring back the actual verbal. filibuster where you you just actually. have to have a senator filibuster and. stop the debate on this thing. >> Yeah, over and over non-stop. But or or you could actually have a vote. to eliminate the filibuster and along. with it minority rights in the Senate. and that could be done with the votes. that we have now in the Republican. Senate the Republican controlled Senate. You can be done it can be done by. majority vote. I actually looked this. up. Um okay, so this is how it would go.

You'd have to have. um. you'd have to have a rules change. You'd have to have somebody um try to. bring the SAVE Act to the floor. And then somebody would say. "Okay, well, we we filibuster the vote. or you don't have 60 votes to bring it. um. to the floor." And then they'd have to. have sort of a point of order within the. Senate. And. the the Republicans would basically have. this Republican I think maybe the.

parliamentarian would have to overrule. the uh. the filibuster. Like overrule it and. say, "We're not going to stop debate on. this. We are going to bring it to the. floor." And therefore changing the. filibuster and the minority rights in. the Senate forever. There are many, many Republicans who. want this done, Tom. Because they think. the Democrats are going to do it when. they get control. Some say, "Let's just. do it on a limited basis the way we. first got rid of it for federal court. district judges." And then Republicans. said, "We're going to pull it for. Supreme Court judges, too." They Maybe. you could do it on just election-related.

bills. Cornyn was dragging his feet on it, but. eventually said, "Okay, I'll do it." Cuz. he knew his electoral chances were. dwindling. They still don't have the votes. They. They don't have the Republican votes to. do it. They do not have 51 Republican. senators who would do it. So, where does. that leave us on the SAVE Act? This. whole thing. >> Well, you know, that was interesting. because when when. after the after the initial primary, right? Trump weighed in and was like. basically offered to endorse Cornyn if. publicly come out in favor of moving the. SAVE Act, right? And and it was almost.

like a quid pro quo for the endorsement. Yeah. >> And and that's the other thing. So, um. and by the way, I don't. Trump has been out very outspoken. He's. been hammering on the Democra- the. Republicans in the Senate to to do this, right? He. break the filibuster, get this done. Uh. cuz he knows once once this election. comes through, I mean, he's basically. going to be a lame duck and it's going. to be very hard for them to get anything. done particularly if they if they do. lose the Senate. But I also think the. Trump has it's been so weird. Like he. congratulated Ken Paxton today, but also.

was like John Cornyn's going to be a. good friend of mine for a long time. And. I mean he's been very very favorably. disposed. Normally, you know, everyone's. talking about Trump's revenge tour and. he's he's taken out all these folks that. have crossed him in some way. Bill. Cassidy here and you know, Thomas Massie. over there. John Cornyn didn't seem to. he seemed to like John Cornyn. He It's. not that John Cornyn did anything. It. was a base play. Yes. >> It was a base play. Trump needed to give. the base a bone. You know, the base is. mad about Epstein. There are a lot in. the base who don't love Iran. This is. like a no-brainer. It's for the Jesse.

Kelly's of the world who are like I'm. sick of being disappointing. >> saw the wind was blowing. He saw the. wind was blowing in in Ken Paxton's. direction and sort of jumped on the. bandwagon. He would never say that, but. that's effectively what happened. Yep. And and got his way. And Jesse. Kelly got his way, which we're happy. about, too. All right, Tom, thank you. very much. Coming up [music] next, a. bizarre and gripping royal deep dive. Don't go away. Hey, thanks for watching today's full. episode. If you're new here, throw us a. subscribe. See what you think. Stay in.

touch. There's plenty more goodness. where this one came from. As always, we. really do value your feedback. So email. me, too. Megan, m e g y n at. megynkelly.com or just leave a comment. down below. I do read them. I meander. over and I scroll through and I find. them very entertaining and really. appreciate the feedback. But in any. event, join the community by becoming a. subscriber so you miss nothing. We value. your support. We may not always agree on. positions, but as you know, I'm very. open-minded to people who disagree with. me. That's how I learn. So, thanks. And.

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first-time gold buyer rebate of up to. 10,000 bucks. Andrew Lownie is a [music] royal. biographer and investigative journalist. and he's making some explosive new. claims that must have Buckingham Palace. absolutely freaking out. Just to give. you a preview, the book talks about. Prince Andrew's hatred for King Charles, new accounts of Andrew's alleged. predatory behavior including requests. for 16-year-old blondes. 16.

And his need for two hotel rooms, writes. the author, one for sleeping and one for. entertaining sex workers. Also, Andrew's fights with Prince Harry, like physical fights, other kinds of fights with Prince. William and Meghan Markle. There's. really kind of no one he gets along with. other than his old pal. Jeffrey Epstein before he died and. Ghislaine Maxwell. So, this thing is a must-read summer. book to say the least. The book is. entitled The Rise and Fall of the House.

of York. Entitled. It's It's called. Entitled The Rise and Fall of the House. of York and it's available right now. I. think you're going to enjoy it. Andrew, welcome to the show. Lovely to be with. you. It's wonderful to see you. This I mean, my jaw was on the floor reading this. book. I don't even know where to begin. Uh a couple of highlights up front here. uh from from the notes that we took. He. um. as I said in the tease for your book at.

the top of the hour, it wasn't just. Virginia Giuffre, who was a young woman. with whom he alleged allegedly slept, the Jeffrey Epstein young woman. Uh. you say he had multiple requests. It was. kind of standard for 16-year-old blondes. while traveling as the UK envoy that he. was known for allegedly groping young. girls at parties and stewardesses on. planes and uh for example, sending. pictures, naked pictures to senior army. officers, including the chief of the.

defense staff, that it was an open. secret what a creep he was when it came. to young girls and women. Yeah, it's extraordinary. I mean, these. stories uh with people on the record. have never really emerged, and I'm just. amazed that, you know, that they haven't. uh because he was extraordinary with his. predatory behavior. Uh and um he's. finally been called out. Uh in fact, I. only used about 10% of the material I. had. I've added another 40 pages to the.

paperback. But I just had so many of these stories, again with people on the record, former. protection officers, uh policemen, members of staff, that um. uh you know, you just can't ignore them. So, it reminded me of when he went on. with the BBC when the allegations of him. and Virginia Giuffre and his connections. with Epstein and his renewal of the. friendship even after Epstein struck. that that. plea deal on under a uh solicitation of. an underage prostitute, which again is.

not a thing. But in any event, you can't. can't be prostitute if you're underage. That's that's called rape or sexual. assault. In any event, um he gave a. disastrous interview to the BBC that was. just so bad it was kind of the end of. him as a public figure. But he, of. course, was asked about the Virginia. Giuffre allegation. She's the young. blonde who was in that infamous picture. of Prince Andrew. um at an Epstein party with Ghislaine. Maxwell. And he tried to deny any. knowledge of her, but here's a bit from. that. 51B.

July of this year, Epstein was arrested. on charges of sex trafficking and. abusing dozens of underage girls. One of. Epstein's accusers, Virginia Roberts, has made allegations against you. She says she met you in 2001. She says. she dined with you, danced with you at. nightclub in London. She went on. to have sex with you in a house in. Belgravia belonging to Ghislaine. Maxwell, your friend. Your response? I have no recollection of.

ever meeting this lady. None whatsoever. You don't remember. meeting her. >> No. She says she met you in 2001. She dined. with you. She danced with you. You bought her. drinks. You were in nightclub in. London. And she went on to have sex with you in. a house in Belgravia belonging to. Ghislaine Maxwell. Didn't happen. Do you remember her? No. I I.

I have no recollection of ever meeting. her. Um. uh I'm almost, in fact, I'm convinced. um that I was never in Tramps with her. There are a number of things that are. wrong with that story. One of which is that is that I don't. know where the bar is at in um Tramps. Um. uh. I don't drink. Um. I don't think I've ever bought a drink. in Tramps. uh whenever I was there.

This is like every lie detecting skill I. have is going ah ah ah. there's like so many lies there. It's so. obvious. But the reason I raise it is. because. Andrew, there were multiple It's. possible he didn't remember her. It. actually is possible. I see the the. soundbite a little differently here. because. the there appear to have It looks like. there was a girl in every port. I mean there were certainly a lot of. girls, absolutely. I mean but the. the fact is that he ordered Virginia.

Giuffre off of a a catalog in effect. There were these books of photographs. that were circulating and he kind of. It's not by chance that she was brought. to him. We know from. some of the Epstein file releases that. he was actually discussing. Virginia Giuffre and her story as soon. as the story broke. They were looking at. ways as to how they could discredit her. A PR firm was brought in to do that. And. that continues to this day. If you've gone to Trump, you'll know. that the bar is literally on the dance. floor. You can't literally go there. without seeing the bar. I had countless.

people say that actually he does drink. And it was an extraordinary thing. He. was lying about things he didn't even. need to lie about. And that was what I. found with the book. Both he and Sarah. Ferguson every single thing they said. had to be double-checked because you. couldn't believe a single a single. thing. The book points something out that's. actually very sad and I confess maybe. view Queen Elizabeth differently. But. you suggest that he had a sexual.

experience. as young as age eight. with somebody which again would not be a. sexual experience. That that would be an. assault of some sort if it's with a. anybody who's older. And that by the. time he was 12, I think you write, he'd. had at least half a dozen sexual. partners. I mean this is horrific to me. Like what. happened to him when he was young and. really did make me start to reassess the. queen who was not just a queen but was.

his mother. Yes, absolutely. I mean, it's an. extraordinary story. I was very nervous. about putting it in. It seemed. far-fetched, but it came from a good. source. It does in some ways. present him as victim. It It does. explain the sex addiction, the inability. to sustain relationships, the constant. need for sex workers. Uh and certainly. talking that came from a good source. I. got other sources saying similar things, involvement with other members of of of. female members of staff there. I mean, he was physically quite well developed.

though emotionally kind of arrested. Uh. and I mean, these stories don't seem to. be unique. I mean, to us they seem. shocking, but I think Diana's brother. talks about a similar experience when he. was at prep school. So, um. uh. I kind of put it in there hoping it. might flush out more people and and some. people have come forward with more. stories to back it up. So, uh it does paint him in a slightly. different light and I was very keen that. this shouldn't be a hatchet job. I. should try and present him in as as. balanced way as I could. I should be as.

sympathetic as I could towards him to. try and explain his behavior. And I. think this does does does give us some. other new insights. But you're. absolutely right, the queen does not. emerge well from this book. I was. vilified when the book came out for even. suggesting that she could have put her. own family ahead of the crown, for. example, uh and that she should have behaved in. this way, but we. mothers do have blind spots and it's now. uh. in some ways it's becoming clearer and. clearer that she did. uh make all sorts of excuses for her. son. She kind of buried her head in the.

sand if anything was brought to her. about some of his activities. Uh and the. palace itself is now trying to shift the. blame onto the queen to protect the. king, King Charles. Um I mean, she certainly was involved in. paying the hush money to Virginia. Giuffre, the 12 million pounds to to to. keep her quiet. Uh and she was aware of. what was going on. She couldn't not be. aware. Uh not only was the story in the. press the whole time, but actually her. own lawyers were being written to by. various people with stories about.

Andrew's activities, and members of the. intelligence services and the foreign. office were constantly giving her. stories of his bad behavior. But just around back, are you suggesting. you you do not have that nailed down? Cuz that's quite a thing to put in your. book if you don't have it nailed down. You say according to a source close to. Andrew, he had his first sexual. experience aged eight, lost his. virginity at 11 after a friend's father. hired two escorts for the boys in a West. End hotel. I mean, is is there doubt in your mind? Because. we in fairness to Prince Andrew, that. should be really clear. Uh no, I mean.

the sources proved to be very accurate. Uh as I say, I was surprised the lawyers. let it through, but uh other things have. come to light since the book came out. that kind of reinforce that story. So, I. think that was, you know, it was. justified to to to run it. And as I say, various things were going on in that. prep school. It's not unique uh to have. boys who have their sexual experience at. that sort of early age. But I agree, it's it is it's got. >> Sorry, I mean I just I imagine if you're. a prince, it's not hard to get girls.

But like, more than a half a dozen. before age 13 is the age you put here. That is that's very damaging to a young. boy, and I it just to me it's like very. sad. I would imagine even if the Queen. isn't sitting there at prep school with. him, isn't there someone who oversees. these boys? Like these the royals in. particular make sure. that they're being brought up right, that there's adult supervision, that. they're not being. I don't just taken advantage of by. whoever allowed this to happen. You're.

you're absolutely right. I mean, there's. a duty of care to to to someone of that. age. It is it is an extraordinary story. I I stand by my source, and as I say, other other other new materials come. along since then to back it up. But it is an extraordinary story, and. And but it does in some ways, explain. his subsequent behavior. Uh you know, his as his inability to sustain. relationships. Uh and, you know, his. constant need for masseurs and sex. workers and things. Uh so, I think it it. >> Well, and and not just in the course of.

his life, but in the course of his. marriage. Because you also write, you. know, he married Fergie, and you have it. from their former driver that he had. slept with more than a dozen women. before their first anniversary. I mean, is there What is that like in these. royal marriages? Is there any real. covenant of fidelity or like is this an. Andrew thing or is this a royal thing? Well, I think it's a royal aristocratic. thing. I mean, the um. we know from Sarah's own father that she. was sort of I mean, there was a physical.

attraction to start with, but they kind. of quickly moved off in the different. directions. They both had had pretty. racy lives as bachelor and and spinster. There was a lot of pressure on both of. them to settle down. And um I mean, as I say, her father had. had had admitted that she was more in. love with the royal family than she was. with Andrew. And he was away very quickly. I mean, away for long periods either on naval. bases or on ships. Uh and she felt very. lonely. She was stuck in this sort of. gloomy Buckingham Palace with very.

little support. Uh and um I'm afraid things began to. happen on both sides. >> [clears throat]. >> Yeah, so she she also does not come up. She doesn't come off well in this book. at all. I mean, she was a spendthrift. She couldn't spend enough of the British. taxpayers' money. She seems to be a. glutton. That's the what I took away. from the book that she's a glutton for. food, for alcohol, for cigarettes, for. sexual partners. She lied about her.

relationship with Epstein, the book. suggests, maintaining a very close. friendship with him long after she. claimed it was over post his guilty plea. on that charge we discussed. Um. what did What do you make of her after. having studied and researched her for so. long? Well, I think she's a very. subjective and hard character and and. there are a lot of very good qualities. She's loyal, she's generous, uh she's can be very kind. She has this. great ability at empathy with with. disadvantaged children. Uh and she was seen as a breath of fresh.

air, sort of Meghan Markle character. She she'd had her own career, she'd. lived with someone before she got. married. Uh and it started off well. She was a. popular member of the royal family. Uh but quite quickly she was seen to be. taking advantage of position. Uh she was. selling stories to the papers and. photographs of of her family. Sarah. Ferguson we're talking about now. Uh this Sarah Ferguson. >> Not Markle. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and um well, I mean Meghan Markle I think has tried. to model herself in many ways on Sarah. Ferguson. Uh and.

uh. uh unfortunately, there was very little. control and I think she realized she'd. gotten into the sweetie shop when she. could take advantage. But I think she. started off with a genuine wish to to do. good. I mean, she has done a lot of good. work with various charities. But the. problem is the she gets confused between. the the the the let the lines you need. to to to leave between charitable work. and financial interests, social. ambitions, laundering your reputation, etc. Uh and. >> does she come from? Because that when I. when I read just about Sarah Ferguson,

Andrew's wife at the time and they're. divorced now, but I thought this is a. girl who like. she she is now a royal and she is going. to exploit it for everything it's worth. I mean, you write that. um. at night she would down a handful si- a. handful of sizable vodkas, then take to. the wine. Her cigarette butts littered. the house despite her desperate attempts. to give up. Um that she was putting on. weight and depressed. That she was seen.

wandering aimlessly around without. makeup. Her eyes were tired, looked like. her soul was gone. She was no longer. quite in control. That it it shed life. light on her life. at Sunninghill where they lived, I. guess, where each evening staff. each evening staff would prepare up to. 10 different types of pasta for her. Because weighed down with the cares of. coping with royal life, she could never. make up her mind what she wanted to eat. Her bills for food alone had escalated. to 40,000 pounds a year. Based on the interviews with staff.

members, her foibles included demanding. that all her knickers, bras, and tights. be ironed. Not to mention when she sat. down for breakfast in the morning, she wanted fresh squeezed orange juice. and the oranges had to be squeezed just. as she sat down. She had a staff of 17, which I'll list in a minute, but I mean. it. she was leaning in to the royal life, Andrew. Yes, exactly. No, she she loved it. I. mean, you know, um uh as I say, it was. like going to the sweetie shop. Uh and. she, you know, she's very extravagant.

She can't decide. Someone described her. as greedy and needy. Uh and I think that does sum her up. Uh. and Yes, that's not a good combo. I. know. You know, it's a very dangerous. combo, she discovered. Uh and I think that was the problem and. there was no no one there to give her. any direction. I mean, her mother had. gone. away when she was 13 with an an. Argentinian polo player. Her husband was. away. Her sister lived in Australia. Uh and the palace kind of washed their. hands a bit of her. Uh and she just was.

this she always had low self-esteem. She. had problems with her weight. Uh she was. taking lots of diet pills, which. affected her her moods. Uh and um. you know, she was a mess. Uh and she's. not an intelligent person. She was drawn. to psychics. She I think talked to three. different three or four different. psychics a day. Uh and she kind of lost direction in her. life. I mean, there is a side to her. where she can sort of pick herself up. She's when she falls right to the bottom. and through just sheer perseverance and. hard work and and self-discipline, which.

is not a word you normally associate. with her. She can do amazing things. She. was a great advert for Weight Watchers. in the States, later for Wedgwood China, uh and uh a lot of companies were very. happy to pay a large sums of money to. act as a brand ambassador. So, but you also point out on the. excesses, uh she employed the staff of. 17, including a cook, driver, maid, butler, dresser, nanny, three. secretaries, a personal assistant, lady. in waiting, accountant, accountant's. assistant, two gardeners, flower.

arranger, and dog walker. An accountant. brought in to cut costs as one member of. the staff what he did, and received the. reply, "I pick up the dog shit." "And. you?" [clears throat] he asked, pointing. to the person beside him, "I help him.". In the meantime, you report that she. treated the staff infamously poorly, that she had tantrums, that there was. high staff turnover, she was screaming. at employees, she would she would. regularly reduce the staff to wrecks,

and then she'd wonder why they were so. unhappy. Uh and on top of that, you reported that. on the charities, you give her credit. for the charities that she started, but. you point out that when she was asked by. some to go help with other charities, instead of saying, "Sure, I'll be there. and I'll foot the bill." she would go. and she would ask for two expensive. suites, and she would want a plane. ticket, even though the place is only 2. hours away, and she'd want to bring. staff.

she was exploiting. you know, when we usually when a charity. asks you to come, it's okay to get a. speaking fee, but you try to keep all. your expenses down to a minimum, or you. know, like you foot them yourself. This. was not her approach. So, she seems to. be abusive, insecure, um somewhat gluttonous, and. not that generous a person. No, I think that's the cynical nature of. her, that she used charities to to, as I. say, enhance her social ambitions, you. know, to meet stars, but also to kind of.

launder her reputation. I mean, the charities that she and indeed Andrew. and the children supported were for. trafficked women. And yet of all the. people, they they. they they seemed to be most disdainful. of them. They they, you know, were very. happy to mix with predators like Peter. Nygard and Jeffrey Epstein and and um. uh P. Diddy and others. But yeah, it's. an extraordinary uh behavior. I mean, and the repeated stories of her. insisting on security, um. cost of security, hairdressers.

uh when she did these social events. Uh. and often I approached the charities and. asked, you know, she claims she's raised. so much money, actually how much did she. raise? And they'd say, "Well, actually. we we raised nothing cuz it was all. eaten up in expenses.". Uh and several times, you know, people. had to like the case you quote, put. their own hands in their pocket just to. cover the expenses cuz they didn't feel. they could charge the charities. Just a very cynical use of charities. There's a a story which is breaking now. about one of her boyfriends who earned. quite a lot of money from government.

grants to develop an app which never. happened. And they set up a charity on. the side which never actually did any. charitable work. It's now being. investigated by the Charities. Commission. Her daughter's charity, the. Anti-Slavery Collective, is being. investigated by the Charities Commission. because it raised large sums of money. which it didn't spend. Twice as much was. spent on on staff costs as actually. given in grants. And they kind of. realized that they could exploit. charities to um to to to to enhance. their lifestyle.

Wow. Um. I should point out that. she issued. a denial. about your book calling it fabricated. nonsense. This was made directly. actually in response to the published. excerpts allowing or alleging a past. relationship between Sarah Ferguson and. P. Diddy, Sean "Diddy" Combs. You allege. in the book that she had an affair with. him? Yes, it was a as a friends with benefits. relationship. It went on for many years. I did get something wrong. I thought. they met in 2002, but in fact pictures. are now emerged of her at his birthday.

party in 1998. She liked rappers. I mean they actually. she got rappers in to perform at the. children's birthday parties. She had. these obsessions with particularly. particularly rich and well-known people. And she chased Tiger Woods for example. across America, had a thing about John. F. Kennedy Jr. Had a. passion for Kevin Costner. And um. I think one of the things that she. claimed was she'd only met P. Diddy. twice. Well, there's plenty of. photographic evidence of them meeting on. numerous occasions. I understand stories.

are about to break in the press from. from other sources, nothing to do with. me. With more detail of that. relationship, but my my source is. strong. I'm standing up by it. And We know that P. Diddy was very keen. to kind of get close to the British. royal family. And it didn't surprise me. People ex- expressed about this. relationship, but it it fits in entirely. with the way that she behaved towards. financial backers and people who were in. the public eye like her. She She liked.

bad boys and there's a whole history of. getting involved with men who were very. unsuitable. This is a picture Yeah, there's like there's bad boy like he you. know he skirts authority and drives a. Harley and. you know. thumbs his middle finger at people who. cross him on the road, but then there's. you know, P. Diddy and Jeffrey Epstein. bad boy which is a a league of its own. and and you alleged in the book And. again, for listening audience, the book. is called Entitled: The Rise and Fall of.

the House of York. You alleged that she. exposed her daughters, the Princesses. Eugenie and Beatrice to P. Diddy. Can. you explain that? >> Well, the picture you just showed is a. picture of her second daughter Eugenie. aged 16 at one of P. Diddy's yacht. parties. Beatrice was taken the older. daughter was taken to the launch of a. fragrance called Unforgivable, which was. supposedly based on on Sarah Ferguson. And Sarah Ferguson, you know, was. constantly, for example, sending. pretty young girls, her goddaughters and.

people to stay in Epstein's flats on. their own without any supervision. And she clearly didn't worry about. Epstein. The girls were taken as young. girls to visit Peter Nygard in the. Bahamas. So, there were a whole series. of people who were totally unsuitable. for these girls to mix. I mean, one of. the chief guests at Beatrice's 18th. century I'm sorry, 18th birthday party, which was an 18th century dress ball, was Harvey Weinstein, apart from from. Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

And if you look at the wedding guests, for example, for Eugenie, which was held. at St. George's Windsor, huge security. costs to the British public. It consists. consists of Chinese rapists, Libyan gun runners, a whole series of. people who you. These people should not have been mixing. with. How was any of this allowed? You know, it's like. I don't know, you watch The Crown and it. was like Queen Elizabeth's sister wasn't. even allowed to marry the guy she wanted.

to marry because he was considered. unsuitable. Now, you got these flash. forward to these two running around. associating with Epstein and Weinstein. and Diddy and Andrew with the. 16-year-old blond requests and the paid. sex workers in these hotels, which. appears to have been an open secret. Allegedly, he denies it. How How How did we go from one to the. other? Well, I think it was a reaction to to. the fact that the Queen felt guilty. about the way that Margaret had been. treated. In fact, Margaret could have.

married Peter Townsend. She chose not to. because she would have lost her title. But so, and then she kind of gone off. him in the in the the period of. separation. But I think the Queen knew. that there was very little. accountability and transparency about. these activities, there was always going. to be people who could cover it up. I. talked to a protection officer for the. royal family in fact the other night and. he said that you know they would alter. the logs of of of things that they did. in order to kind of cover up their. tracks. So they.

people like Sarah Ferguson and Andrew. knew they would never be caught, they'd. never have to pay. be held accountable for any of this and. they could behave exactly as they wanted. and that's what they did. And that's. been the story up till now that that. these people have felt invincible. because they were protected. And the. Queen didn't want to know and and and so. people kept quiet. We've seen this time. and time again. She'd push push her son. for jobs like being a trade envoy and. though people had reservations, they. basically, you know, tugged their.

forelock and said of course. And being a trade envoy is what led to. Andrew getting arrested a couple of. months ago which we'll talk about in a. minute. I should point out that. several outlets, News Nation people, The. New York Post all reached out to Andrew. and his office for comment. What they got back was Buckingham Palace. did not return emails for comment. that the Duke of York did not respond. giving a comment that Buckingham Palace. no longer comments on matters involving. Andrew and that a rep for Andrew also. did not respond for comment. So clearly.

he's not going to comment on this and. neither is the palace. Though I'm going. to just going to guess that he's denying. most salacious Yeah. Allegations. The To. be true to be fair I mean he's he's not. responded to any of the allegations. going back over 25 years. I mean even. when he was a working royal there were a. whole series of stories about. unexplained monies in his bank account. and behavior and get taking commissions. for introducing foreign businesses into. Kazakhstan. And whenever these questions were raised. with him by the police they there was. there was nothing. Occasionally.

Buckingham Palace would deny them and if. the press wanted to pursue them, they. then found they had legal letters. And and the most famous cases is Amy. Robach at ABC Television who wanted to. run a program on Virginia Giuffre and. Andrew years before the story broke. Uh. and the palace's response was to say, "Well, if you want access to William and. Catherine in future, you'll you should. back off." And they backed off. Uh and. of course Epstein and Andrew were able. to abuse girls um you know, after that.

I'm not going to lie. I got a I got a. couple chuckles out of the book like the. following. Another acquaintance tells the story of. Andrew at a wedding asking a woman he. had not met before for a dance. When she. declined, he responded, "I suppose the. blow I suppose a blow job is out of the. question, then?". >> [laughter]. >> It's my very poor British accent. But I. I laughed. I'm not going to lie. He was. He is irreverent and kind of cheeky in a. way that could be taken as humor as.

opposed to offensive. Yeah, well, I. think that was the the feeling. You. know, he was rather dandy. He was a bit. of a cheeky chappie. Uh there's a famous. interview with uh a presenter called um. um uh I've got her name now, but but um. uh anyway, well-known presenter. And. there's a sort of clearly a rapport. there. Uh and he you can see that he could have. been very He could be very charming. Uh his other great chat-up line was when. he was dancing with a girl was to say, "How's it feel like to have a royal. up against your thigh?". Um uh Oh my god.

So, >> [laughter]. >> uh and maybe, you know, one time I don't. know it works. I I I I suspect uh no. more than that. I mean, the thing is as. you say, there were plenty of women who. were prepared to throw themselves at. him. He didn't need to try too hard. In. fact, it wasn't just the women, it was. their moms as well. So, when the uh the. the ships docked in in foreign ports, you know, they had to fight them off. Uh and this gave him a very exalted. sense of his own importance and his own. uh uh sense. uh attractions. Um because, you know, for for for models.

and actresses, it didn't do your career. harm to be associated with him. Uh and you know, there was certain. curiosity. Uh and he took advantage of that. Uh and. that was. >> Sure he did. Uh fine. Um and you know, there are plenty of well-known people I. couldn't write about uh who who've had. relations with him. Uh I mean, there were some people I had. to leave out for the lawyers. So, it's. uh it could be a lot worse. >> was smart. You write about how uh one former staff. member told you the story that he had a.

reputation among his own staff of being. creepy. Uh one nanny left because he made. unwelcome advances. And then you cite uh. Emma. Greenbaum, a 34-year-old masseuse from. the Wentworth Club, who was often booked. by Andrew for massages at Royal Lodge. I. mean, that's got Epstein vibes written. all over it. This is Epstein's thing, of. course, the the massage with the. so-called happy ending. "It's always. felt a bit sleazy and a bit odd, really," she said. "I felt he wanted. more. It was very clear." End quote. The. Duke insisted on being naked and despite.

her objections, the massage taking place. in his bedroom. He would try and hug. her, ask her to stay and watch a film, ask her about her sex life. Oh, not even. subtle, by the way. On one occasion, while she adjusted the massage table, you write, he remarked, "Hey, nice ass. Do you want to take it up the ass?" My. God, like this is. like this is a prince. This is like. which. What did Emma tell you her reaction to. this was? Well, shocked, cuz she's a serious sort. of masseur. at the Wentworth Club. But there were.

lots and lots of these masseur stories. I mean, he would actually swap notes. about masseurs with President Trump. Uh. and they would discuss according to one. diplomat, together. Uh that was. their bond. A bit of golf, a bit of. money. But I mean, plenty of stories of. of masseurs brought He liked what's. called double-handed masseurs massages, where there were two women involved. Uh. and even at Royal Lodge in recent times, he would have two women brought to him. every Sunday afternoon. out for massages to the sound of country.

music. That was his thing. But I've. talked to to one of his drivers and. >> American country music. You're not. talking about like English countryside. >> No, no, no. He liked He liked American. country music. So maybe, you know, once. you try it sometime. The uh. Save a horse, ride a cowboy? >> [laughter]. >> I'm trying to think of what his favorite. might be. Well, he was very interested. in. >> At At Royal Lodge, that's where he stood. He That's where he stayed on Royal. Palace grounds? Yes, this was on Royal Lodge, which was, you know, in a sense Crown property,

which he had at a very very attractive. rent. I mean, it wasn't offered to the. as it should have been. He had He. basically said that he would bring it up. to to to to renovate it. Uh and that. cost him about 7 million pounds, but in. return, he didn't pay rent. He had it. for about 80 years. It was a pretty good. deal. Uh and that should have been. offered more widely. You know, it's it. should have been a commercial. undertaking. And this is one of the. concerns. You know, his daughters don't. have royal duties, but they live in. subsidized accommodation in royal.

palaces, even though they've got homes. elsewhere. Uh and this is why people are. getting. >> get It's time. Get out. Get a job. Aren't they in their 30s at this point? Like why do the British taxpayers have. to pay for their lives? Well, that's the. question that's now being asked. But. because there's so little scrutiny and. people have such deference towards the. royal the royals, these questions. haven't been asked until now. I mean, what I would say is is, you know, my. book in August and Loosen the Earth. Then we had Geoffrey's own book, which. kind of humanized this scandal. And then.

we've had, of course, the Epstein files. And that's just all created the snowball. effect that, you know, people now feel. that, you know, it isn't about public. duty. It's about personal profit and. pleasure. Uh and there needs to be. proper scrutiny and accountability. Uh. and if they are to retain respect and. trust, they have to start kind of. uh improving their act. Just to uh clarify that for the. audience, so you released the book uh in. August, but you've updated it for the. paperback with a bunch of new reporting.

The book is called Entitled: The Rise. and Fall of the House of York. There's. plenty more, including the relationships. amongst the younger royals once Harry. got together with Meghan, how Andrew. reacted to that, and um. what Meghan was like inside those palace. grounds. We'll pick it up there right. after this quick break [music] as Andrew. Lownie stays with us. Okay, let's talk about an uncomfortable. reality. What happens financially to our. loved ones once we're no longer here? We.

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mkurgentcarekit.com/mk. She was very specific about that night. She described dancing with you and you. profusely sweating. and that she went on to have. possibly There's a slight problem with. with with with with the sweating. because. I I I I. have a. peculiar medical condition which is that. I don't sweat. or I didn't sweat at the time. And that. was I was in Yes, I didn't sweat at the.

time because. I. had suffered what I would describe as an. overdose of adrenaline in the Falklands. War when I was shot at. And I simply it it was it was almost. impossible for me to sweat. And it's. only because I have done a number of. things. in the recent past that I'm starting to. be able to. do that again. So I'm afraid to say that. that that that there's a medical. condition that says that I didn't do it.

>> [laughter]. >> These are such obvious lies. It's so. uncomfortable to watch, but it's all. tracking with what we're going through. today which is a new book, new updated. book. by Andrew Lownie called Entitled: The. Rise and Fall of the House of York. And. Andrew Lownie is with me still. Um. Yeah, so there he was talking about how. he couldn't sweat. And um those were. lies. What do we know about the Queen's.

knowledge about any of this? Right? Because I know you raised the question, you know, I will reevaluate the Queen. because she doesn't sound like she was a. good mother. But there's a question about whether we. should be reevaluating the Queen because. she may have helped sweep some of this. under the rug. Like how much did she. know about his antics? Oh, I I'm sure she knew everything. Um. she the head of royal security would. have reported to her. Having done a book. on the Duke of Windsor, I've kind of. seen how it all worked. Uh and, you know, she had a lot of.

intelligence people inside her. entourage. Her immediate private. secretary was next intelligence officer, former head of MI5 or domestic uh. force like at the FBI. It was was. involved in her household. So, um but I. also know that people wrote to to, for. example, her lawyers pointing out all. sorts of things. Heads of the foreign office, former. intelligence officers, all sorts of. people went to her with complaints and. were basically sent away with a flea in.

their ear. Uh at one point, Andrew was caught with. $5 million in a suitcase as a sort of. bribe in Kazakhstan. Juan Carlos of. Spain was also paid off. Uh and that was. taken to the Queen and she just didn't. want to know. Um and. you know, it was just it was just one. thing that she that was just she she. couldn't really take on board. Uh and there was no one else who who in. given her protection of Andrew, there. was nothing anyone else could do. Uh and. time and time again, he ran to his. mother. He had her sort of round his.

little finger. I mean, there's there's there's an. extent to which the end of her life, when she was quite, you know, old and. frail and confused and on drugs and ill. Then he kind of bullied her. He would go. up there often for lunch and she was. lonely. There were very few people after. Philip who who came and saw her. Uh and he was the one member of the. family who had time and and he kind of. cultivated her. But that had always been the case. So, yeah, I think we do need to reassess the. Queen's reputation. She's not quite as. pure as driven snow as everyone thought.

Yeah, I mean, it's tough cuz you it's. your child and most of us would do. anything for our children, but this is. an adult child and it's the British. taxpayer and there are real questions. about his behavior there. That's why. he's he's been arrested for this. his behavior. None of this is really. what's at issue, although they are now. investigating some some. situation with the woman. It's actually. kind of interesting to me, but he he was. indicted because as trade envoy, he. allegedly passed reports of official.

visits to countries other than his own, to Singapore, to Vietnam. And the. suggestion is that he shared stuff he. shouldn't have shared with people in. other countries and uh they're. investigating that right now. They do. say that um there's a second piece of. this that they are looking into a claim. that a woman was brought to the UK to. have sex with Andrew. This is reported. by the Daily Mail and uh they said that. the Thames Valley police confirmed this.

that there's a wider probe into him, whether he brought a woman to the UK to. have sex with him. In her 20s. Now, there's nothing wrong. with bringing a woman to the UK to have. sex with you, even if you're Prince. Andrew, unless it's against her will or. it's, you know, a paid situation, you. can argue it's sex trafficking that. crosses country lines, which I guess is. what they're looking into because they. say she's in her 20s, she was sent by. Epstein to the UK to have sex with. Andrew in 2010. Again, that's also not. illegal unless this was a sex.

trafficking situation. One guy can send. a. gal as long as she's willing and this. isn't part of some sort of forced. situation which would potentially make. it sex trafficking. Um to go have sex. with his pal. She said to have spent the. night with the then prince at Royal. Lodge before later having tea and being. given a tour of Buckingham Palace. Well, great. Detectives have spoken to lawyer. Brad Edwards for the alleged victim, they say, who has not been identified. Again, I don't know how she's a victim. unless they've got proof this person was. trafficked.

A wo- a woman of age who willingly goes. to have sex with a prince is not a. victim. So, I don't know, we'll see. about that one, but. what do you make of this special envoy. stuff and and the likelihood of Andrew. actually going to jail if he gets. convicted? Well, I mean, just just the dealing with. the Brad Edwards um uh uh. client. I mean, she has uh refused to. actually make a formal complaint to the. police. I think she's worried about the. publicity. So, I don't think that's. going to go anywhere as a story, but uh. our former Prime Minister Gordon Brown. has delineated a whole series of women.

who were trafficked into Britain. illegally uh underage uh and against. their will uh and I think eight of This. woman was in her 20s. >> This woman was in her 20s. That's I I. think we discard that story, but there. were other women and that's I think is. what the police are looking at. They're. trying to bring a charge as a sex. trafficking because they feel the. misconduct in public office won't hold. Um. we have. >> The gloves are off for him now. Sorry? The gloves are off. Yes, absolutely. I. think that, you know, the Metropolitan. Police are are seem to be taking this. seriously. I mean, they've they've.

called out women to come forward. I. think they're they're struggling to find. people who are prepared to give. testimony. It's always the case with. these sort of um uh cases. Um but, we. have plenty of evidence of him as a. trade envoy giving away confidential. secrets either a dip- diplomatic or. commercial. I mean, they're in the in. the email correspondence. So, uh. literally within minutes of receiving. emails, he would be passing them on to. other businesses such as like David. Rowlands or Jeffrey Epstein, people who. were actually paying off his or his.

ex-wife's debts. And this is a breach of the official. secrets There is a question about. whether he was doing that to seek. investment. I mean, Jeffrey Epstein was. at the time believed to be this storied. investor, and whether he did it to, you. know, get good guidance for the UK on. what to do about this move or the other. I mean, he's got a potential defense. there. No, I don't think he has a defense. I. mean, for example, he was leaking. commercially sensitive information about. the Royal Bank of Scotland, which had. been taken into ownership. during the banking crisis in 2008, and. he was sharing that information with.

people who were trying to buy off some. of the assets, David Rowlands. With the Icelandic banking crisis, he was sharing confidential information. he had actually requested specifically. from the Treasury and passing it to the. Rowlands who were buying up an Icelandic. bank. This is commercially sensitive. information. So, it's not about That's. not great. And if we had hundreds of. British troops killed in Helmand. province in Afghanistan. working against the Taliban, and he saw. that as a business opportunity and.

wanted to cut of the action, which. doesn't look very good. So, I think. there are plenty of occasions where he. was sharing information that was. privileged information that should not. be shared with anyone else, with people. from who were not British citizens and. were not authorized to see this. information. And that is a breach Well, would this be a judge or a jury trial? Sorry? And do you think a British jury. would actually potentially convict. Andrew? And send him to jail? >> I think he he would be in trouble if it. was a jury trial, but you're absolutely. right. I don't think this will will lead.

to to charges being brought. The last. thing the royal family want is their. dirty linen washed in public. They've. managed to shut down the Paul Burrell. trial in 2002 for that reason. And I think we're already getting the. mood music to prepare us that, you know, there wasn't there wasn't a case under. misconduct in public office, he wouldn't. get a fair trial, Uh, wasn't a proper. public servant, he was just a. uh a member of the royal family kind of. pushed into this job. He wasn't paid. So, I I think it's going to be quite.

difficult on those grounds to to bring a. case. Though, I have interviewed lawyers. and policemen involved in these cases. who say it's pretty clear if officials. have acted uh against the interests of. the public uh who held public positions, which he did, uh then that that that. there would be a case here. Uh but the. story is widening. I think the police. are looking for any way that they can. perhaps get them. And if they can find. people to come forward and give. testimony about uh being underage or. being trafficked to him, uh I mean, we have plenty of evidence.

that there were these books of. photographs, most of them naked, of. girls uh who were uh basically ordered. by these men, including Andrew, uh and. sent, you know, like ordering a pizza. Uh but, you know, the From Epstein and. Ghislaine, you're saying who who had the. catalog of women. >> books and and and and others were. producing them. Uh and that's how it. worked. But, I think Gordon Brown's. intervention is good. He's He's got an. uh a sister-in-law who's investigative. journalist, and she's produced a lot of. new information about these um.

these women who were brought. Problem is. they were. uh anonymous. They weren't registered in. the flight logs. We don't know who they. are. Uh they now may have returned to. their countries and not know about this. They may now be respectful married women. with children and not want to go through. the publicity of going public. So, uh. there are a lot of a lot of um. fences to jump before, I suppose, charges can be brought, but I just. cannot see uh this being allowed to. happen.

Well, clearly, there's no love lost. between King Charles and his brother. Andrew. And And I think you make that. clear as well that those two they're not. particularly close, and Charles is not. protecting Andrew, at least at this. point. And you write in the book that. Andrew really didn't get along with many. people. He didn't He loved his mother or. at least she loved him. Um but he didn't. get along with Harry. He doesn't get. along with William. And of all the things that he's said and. done as documented by this book, I will.

I have to give him the warning that he. gave Harry. when he got together with Meghan. He was. not in favor of it and he saw a disaster. written all over it. Yes, I mean, you know, I think they all. saw this. When I was writing my book on. the about buttons in in 2000 and. I don't know 16, uh the the the all the. gossip in the royal household was about. how unsuitable Meghan was and it would. all end in tears. Uh and clearly uh Edward Andrew was one. of the people who was saying that. I. mean, so was William. Uh everyone could.

see this was a disaster waiting to. happen. Uh [clears throat] but I think. Andrew was a little bit more vocal about. it than some of the others and that. upset Harry. Uh there were fisticuffs. I. mean, both of them have resorted to to. their fists on numerous occasions. There's a story uh which actually has. come out in Robert Hardman's book about. the Queen which actually I allude to in. mine of a fight with the head of the. household to Tony Johnson-Burt. Uh. but yes, there were fights with Harry. There were fights with the um. uh. with with with others. Um.

uh and because and and and William was. was cross with Andrew because uh. basically Andrew didn't think that Kate. was a suitable bride. She wasn't posh. enough. Uh and even as a child William. found him a bit of a creep. So, there's. no there's a huge personal animus there. as well as that William's concern about. the reputational damage to the family. And he's the guy who's got to pick up. the pieces. Uh in some ways, the. likelihood is that Charles is just going. to pass the baton on to William and let. him solve the problem in the way the.

Queen has done it with Charles. Yeah, you write that um. not a great relationship with William. He He resents that Andrew was rude about. Kate and William has long worked behind. the scenes to evict his uncle Andrew. from Royal Lodge. William refers to Andy. as a tosser. Perhaps that's not as bad. as the vile names his brother Harry. uses. Harry has refers to Andy as a. poofta, an and a twit. Um and then you say that uh yeah, he. told Harry that this marriage is not.

going to last more than a month when he. got together with Meghan. He accused him. of going bonkers and not doing any due. diligence on her past. Um and Harry. later told William you write that he was. planning to kill his uncle Andrew. He. hated him that much. Prince Harry denies. that these events occurred. So, what do you know about the the status, if anything, cuz you since you're a. royal biographer, of the Harry and. Meghan pair out in Montecito? And is. there any hope of them going back to be. your problem instead of ours?

Well, I mean I can't really comment. because uh I've focused as a historian. on the story of Andrew and Sarah. Ferguson. So, I can only. uh go from what I've kind of read. But I. think the feeling generally in Britain. is the marriage isn't going to last. Uh. Harry will, I'm afraid, still remain. with you because uh his children are. there. Uh and actually that is exactly. what Wallace Simpson did with with the. Edward the VIII. She kind of got him. away from his friends and his relations. into another country and she could. control him then. They didn't have. children at least. But uh he was kind of.

stuck with her. And I think that's. that's seems to be the. the feeling here with with Harry. He he. wants to build some bridges. I think his. father is keen to uh reignite with him. to see his grandchildren. William. clearly is against it. The king is. caught between the two brothers and and. uh. whatever he does, he's going to upset. one of them. Uh and it's a bit of a mess. What. happened with the the Duke of Windsor is. he did every so often come back and see. his family as long as his wife didn't. come with him and that we're going to.

see more of that. We have a sign that. Harry may be able to come back and and. have uh her. paid for by the taxpayer here, uh which will make him feel safer. Uh. but it's interesting that when there. have been occasions where the king could. have met Harry, I mean not least in his. recent visit to the states, that that. didn't happen. And I think there's. always a suspicion that Harry will leak. uh any encounter they have, uh and um. the the story will be sold to the. newspapers. So, it's it's it is a bit of.

a mess. No one wants a dysfunctional. family like that, but I'm afraid that is. the story of the royal family. They they. can't seem to get on with each other. You well, the the similarities you point. out between Meghan Markle and yes, Wallis Simpson, but also uh Sarah. Ferguson are pretty stark. And the story. this was actually just broke from Rob. Shuter, who we love. He he goes on The. Nerve with Maureen all the time, and he. this is his exclusive that Fergie was in. talks with two NBC executives to do a. daytime talk show in America. They flew.

over there to meet with her and talk to. her about it in London. The next thing. they knew, she had left the NBC. executives alone with her daughters. Beatrice and Eugenie, and uh vanished. for nearly 2 days. And they. they found themselves acting like royal. babysitters, eventually pieced out of. the UK and said, "Yeah, this is not for. us." So, lots of similarities there when. it comes to work ethic and being an. alleged grifter. Uh everyone check out. the book. Thank you so much, Andrew, for.

coming on and give us so much time. Andrew Lownie, and the book is entitled. The Rise and Fall of the House of York. All the best to you, and good luck. Thank you very much. Lovely to speak to. you. Thank you so much, and good luck to all. of you. Uh and until I speak with you. tomorrow, where [music] we have a. special program for you coming.