Horrifying Perez Hilton Video, Disturbing Ariana Grande Appearance, and Surrogate Fights For Baby

Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome. to the Megan Kelly show. Oh, we got a. lot to get to today. This is going to be. a good show. But before we get to the. news, I want to tell you about the. latest episode that we are releasing. right now on our MK membersonly section, uh, which you can join on our YouTube. channel, youtube.com/megan Kelly, if. you're on your computer. I I contacted. Steve Cracker this morning. He's our. executive producer, and I was like, Steve, I can't figure out how to join. this. How are our viewers going to. figure out how to join this? So, the. problem is I was on my phone. If you're.

on your phone, you got to go through the. YouTube app and type in Megan Kelly. That'll take you to our channel and then. you look for that join button which is. right next to the subscribe button. If. you're on your computer, you can just. type in youtube.com/megan Kelly and. you'll see the join button when you get. there. Okay? So, it's a little bit. different instructions depending on. whether you're on your phone or whether. you're on your computer, but you got to. join because we have great great content. going out there and only only for the.

members. So, giving you something a. little extra and we're going to be doing. a lot of extra over there uh for our. most loyal audience members. It we have. now episode two of our documentary about. our show, our audience, and our tour. And this documentary episode is called. Fight for Female. In it, we bring you. the full story of the gender madness in. America, including our journey, our. journey on the topic. I think yours and.

mine, cuz we've been through this. together for six years now. Uh, in this. particular video, we start back in my. time at Fox and how to be honest, I just. had it dead wrong, including with Dr. Keith Abau. Here's a trailer. >> Dr. Abau, um, I've read your piece. Do. you really believe that children are. going to turn transgender? [music]. >> Dr. Abau said it would not be a good. idea for Chaz Bono to be on this show.

It could trigger some elements of a. social contagion. And I mocked him. >> We really don't know how these behaviors. influence people when they are. mainstreamed and celebrated. >> I [music] wish I had listened to him. I. wish we all had listened to him. >> It just blew up. >> Dysphoria diagnoses increase by 1,500%. [music]. >> Hi. >> You turned around and it was everywhere. >> Tuck friendly swimsuits that allows. trans people to conceal their private.

parts. >> You've referred to people with a. capacity for pregnancy. Would that be women? >> Your line of questioning um is. transphobic. Oh my god, [music] this is. not what I thought it was. And then we just open the floodgates. [music] to learning more and more and. more and more and more. >> Men will always swim 8 to 12% [music]. faster than women. People are being. harmed and a lot of people can't speak. about it. How old were you when you got. your double mistctomy? >> I was 15. [music] It happened just after. my sophomore year ended. I still get.

emotional thinking about it. I see the. harm. I see so much of the harm. The. harm is ubiquitous. Was there any chance. of you to defend that ball? >> No. I seriously had no time. The girls. competing, they are [music] not okay. with this. >> That stuff does real damage. You had to. change in a locker room with him. >> The first time that we became aware we. would be undressing next to this 6'4, 22-year-old man, fully intact, was when. we were inches away, fully exposing. himself. >> Oh my gosh. Their inclusion means men.

get to punch women in the [music] face. for entertainment. We can see it's a. man. Stop gaslighting us. It is beyond. time to stand up to the trans lobby. That means to deprive women of their. spaces and rights. >> This is not an issue that we can be. silent on. Our children are literally. being sterilized. >> It's not about [music] empathy or being. nice or any of that anymore. It's war. It's on those people who are hurting our. kids are the enemy and we have to defeat. them.

So, you can see in that trailer that. there are brand new interviews with me, with some of our teammates, um, our. producers, and so on behind the scenes. It's the first two episodes are posted. there right now. You can join to watch. the full episode and all of our. behind-the-scenes content. YouTube.com/megan. Kelly if you're on your laptop or your. computer, but if you're on your phone, you got to go through the app, the. YouTube app, and then you'll see the. join button. Okay, let's turn to the. news. We have got updates today on Perez.

Hilton. Did you see what happened with. him the other night? I was sitting in my. house and could not believe my eyes. Could not believe the videos that were. circulating from Tik Tok of Perez in. what was obviously a mental health. breakdown. It was shocking. Tik Tok is apologizing. for not having listened. I guess it's. automated like sensor saw that this was. something deeply disturbing that should. not go out and I it looks like a human.

may have overruled the automation and. allowed it uh for far too long with. Perez Hilton who is this celebrity. blogger he's you know he he kind of. reminds me of a Joan Rivers type like. very brutal in his takedowns of these. celebrities unsparing but entertaining. you know I mean we've always had these. types in our society and they're I don't. want to say harmless because they're. not. I know a lot of people do get hurt. by this kind of commentary, but to me.

they're relatively harmless. I just kind. of think there's there there's a role. for this person in our society and if. you're a celebrity, you have to learn. how to just shrug it off and say he's. like a stirer. That's a thing we. have. Um whatever. That's a judgment for. individuals to make. But he he had. it looked like a suicide attempt on on. camera and um we'll get into the details.

of I've got a lot of thoughts on this. actually even though I don't have a lot. of thoughts on Perez Hilton himself. I. mean I've of course I know who he is. I've followed him for many years just. loosely being in the same general. business which is on on camera work for. media. um very different neighborhoods. of that of that um world, but I'm so. deeply disturbed by it. So, in any. event, we'll talk about it in just a. bit. There's also uh some growing. concern today about pop star and actress. Ariana Grande and her well-being with.

her inner circle reportedly exploring. treatment options. Now, that broke today. for the 33year-old. We'll explain. And. Jason Arde, we've been telling you about. him for two weeks now. the youngest. black professor in the history of the. University of Cambridge has now. resigned. He has resigned amid his It's not just a. plagiarism scandal now. It is a scandal. involving every single aspect of his.

biography and whether one word of it is. true. And this scandal is it's well. beyond this guy at this point. It is. about all of the people, the elite. academics at Cambridge and elsewhere, not to mention the woke upper westside. types, all white women online who just. dug in and defended him at every turn, notwithstanding the glaring red flags.

all over his resume. What is wrong with. a system that a hires a guy like this. And then B, when serious serious smoke. starts arising off of his resume, no one. will see the fire. No one will even look. to see if there's a fire. In fact, what. we're now learning is that this guy. Jason Arde was um attacking the people. who said, "Hey, I see smoke. There could. be danger. A lot of smoke." By calling.

the police on them. It's like somebody. says, "Hey, your fire, your house may be. on fire. I see smoke." and you call the. police on them, you're harassing me. You're you're being mean to me. And the. the police would say you're a lunatic if. you did that in real life. But what. happened in the UK was the police. started going after journalists who were. trying to report on the fact that this. guy seemed like he was a massive fraud. and was in the midst of defrauding. students at Cambridge. Cambridge.

administrators, though I have no empathy. for them as victims because they were. complicit. But it's crazy how the system. worked together to protect him. Let me. ask you, if you are not black and. autistic, do you think they would have. done the same for you? Now, there are. questions about whether he even is. autistic. I think he is black. I think that is a. piece of his bio that is held up and it. is the explanation for virtually every.

question I just asked. Uh, joining me. now today, the first guest in the. history of the Megan Kelly show, Glenn. Greenwald, Pulitzer Prizewinning. journalist and host of System Update on. Substack. Don't miss a moment. Subscribe to this. show on YouTube and follow me on Insta, Facebook, and X. When you sign your. insurance policy, for some brokers, that's the finish line. Handshake, commission, buy. Then you may not hear. from them again until it's time for.

renewal. That's not a real relationship. Your business runs all year, however, and so do the gaps and risk. This is why. I want to tell you about Supershore. If. your company has more than 25 employees, whether you're the owner, CFO, or HR. manager, it can be too complex to just. buy a policy online. Supershore is the. super agency built just for you. Licensed in every state for your. business insurance and employee benefits. with year-round support for you and your. team. At supershure.com, you can access. tools like fine print facts, which.

translates your current policy into. plain English so you see what's covered. and what's not. Plus, a business value. calculator so you can estimate what your. business is worth and know what actually. needs protecting. Go to. supersure.com/megan. One super agency, one powerful platform. All your policies in one place. supershure.com/megan. Paid for by supershure insurance agency. LLC, a licensed insurance agency. Glenn, great to see you, my friend. This. is great with you. Always feel like I'm. at home here. Yeah. Yeah. It is amazing.

Go ahead. >> Right. Jason Arde. Yes. You're our. godfather. Official podfather godfather. Um. >> and and and the thing about So there's a. lot about this Jason Arde that just came. out overnight. So Cambridge dug in to. the very last second. Late yesterday it. came out and said, "Okay, we've begun an. investigation." Um, we've had a few. things come up that even we now have. begun an investigation. Uh, in. particular, okay, it started off at at. 1:40 p.m. Eastern. They said, "We have.

opened an investigation following new. information about his academic. qualifications and honorary. appointments." Um they were aware of a. number of ongoing complaints about. academic misconduct which are being. handled. We're also aware that Jesus. College in Cambridge would will be. taking their own steps in relation to. some of these matters. I think that's. where he worked. That was like the. division in which he worked and then. within less than two hours later he. resigned. And I've got I've got to read.

you some of the resignation post because. it's so gling, Glenn. It is so gling. Uh, okay. Dear colleagues, it's with. profound sadness I write to resign with. immediate effect from my position at the. University of Cambridge and Jesus. College. That sounds weird. Jesus. College. Is it Jesus? Is it? I don't. Whatever. Okay. I don't know. Cambridge. To become the youngest black professor. in the university's history was. something I could scarcely have imagined. as a child growing up with a diagnosis. of autism. Uhhuh. We get it. Unable to.

speak until I was 11 years old. Um the. thousands celebrated not simply my. appointment but what it represented that. talent, perseverance and hope can. triumph over even the greatest. adversity. Well, don't don't be so. modest, Professor Ardea. Sadly, the. years since my appointment uh have also. been marked by an unrelenting level of. public scrutiny and personal attack. While criticism is an inevitable part of.

academic life, what I have experienced. has gone from has gone far beyond. scholarly disagreement. The relentless, again, there's that word, accusations, speculation, and public commentary have. taken a profound toll on me and those I. love. I have tried to continue because I. believe deeply in the values of higher. ed and rigorous scholarship, yada yada. yada. But there comes a point when the. personal cost becomes too great. I have. a family. I want to be present for them. I want to reclaim some peace, some.

privacy, some semblance of an ordinary. life. I no longer wish to feel as though. I am living under a constant spotlight. where every aspect of my life is subject. to public examination and judgment. Okay, first of all, this is not how this. goes, sir. You don't make yourself a. star by going on all these podcasts and. doing all these interviews and writing. books and doing lectures and then say, "Oh, the scrutiny of the media glare. It's too bright." Wait, he goes on. finishing up here. Um, okay. What how we should not see his.

resignation. It it should not be. mistaken for an acceptance of the. narratives that have surrounded me. It. is simply the decision of someone who. has reached the limits of what any. person should reasonably be expected to. endure. This is not the end of my work. It is simply the end of this chapter. I. need time to heal. I need time to simply. be myself again. And when that time. comes, I will return stronger, wiser,

and with the same determination that has. always defined my journey. There is so. much more work to do, and I look forward. to doing it alongside so many of you in. the years ahead. For now, however, I ask. only for understanding, for compassion, and for the space to begin again. Um. Glenn, we will be here for the next hour. discussing the many frauds that this man. has perpetrated on us. I It is not one. lie. It's not two. It's not small lies. It's massive lies on every piece of his.

origin story and biography, his books, his publications, his interviews, his. scholarly work across across the gamut. And what we get here is self-pity, no. responsibility taken, no apology, just. playing the victim. Your thoughts on the. rise and fall of quote, "Professor Jason. Arde.". >> Yeah, you know, it's when you when I had. when I learned that I was we were going.

to be talking about this story, I had a. couple of points that I thought were. kind of interesting about the dynamics. that led to them, but then when you read. the letter, I feel like I have to start. with that. It is so mind-boggling that. somebody who is facing, as you said, it's not just like one charge of. plagiarism that he denies, there's a. long litany of very serious, non-trivial. questions about whether anything he has. ever said about his life story that. became such an integral part of his. academic status, about his scientific.

work, about his written work. It seems. like huge parts of it are just false and. fabricated, including things like I ran. eight marathons in 10 days. And yet he's. so incapable. And I think this is a very. broad pathology, probably one of the. worst ones plaguing, you know, >> 30 marathons in 35 days. 30 marathons in. 35 days. And by the way, I was actually. looking into it. He alleged that on the. 21st day he fell and broke his leg. but.

managed to complete the next nine. marathons on a broken leg. >> Yeah. I mean, so but so that's the thing. is it's like if you're faced with a. litany of accusations, it's highly. likely that some of them are going to be. at least somewhat true. You've made. mistakes. There isn't a peep an iota of. responsibility taken for things that he. admits that he did. Maybe he could say. they weren't as serious to justify his. dismissal. There's zero. It's just pure.

victimhood. People are persecuting me. People are after me. I can no longer. take after everything I've been through. This kind of scrutiny that means that I. want to go to my family. And I think. this is a broader pathology that large. institutions, you see it with COVID and. Fouchy and all these people who won't. accept even an isolated case of error. So that is the thing that jumps out. And. I think also in this context, so much of. what happened obviously is that he's. part of multiple victim groups. In fact,

he kind of hit the jackpot. And those. people in particular are never required. to accept responsibility or blame. because they're given victimhood status. That means whatever they did is. excusable, which is actually a very. condescending and patronizing way of. treating people for marginalized groups. But the thing is, Megan, this is what. you were you you kind of alluded to. It's not like this is just some, you. know, midlevel or low-level community. college. This is Oxford. And apparently. all of this just slipped as he oh.

Cambridge right as he you know ascended. up the ladder and. why why did that happen? And I think. obviously a reason is is that they. really were enamored of this story which. a lot of people like at first of you. know a story of somebody who comes from. very difficult circumstances and and. succeeds but in this case it has to do. with his race, it has to do with his. background. It has to do with his. immigrant status and it just becomes. handsoff like oh we're not going to. challenge him. We don't want to seem.

like we're racist or we're against. people with this biography succeeding in. our universities. So much of what's. wrong with our institutions and our. culture is evident in this story. >> Oh my gosh. It's it's really it's so. telling when you go through it all. And. I'm and we're going to get to that in a. second. I I want to talk about just a. couple just a couple of the lies. um the. free beacon which has also been doing. great a lot of people have been doing. great work on this including the free. beacon and they he's got a memoir coming. out or or a book he's got a book coming. out and um they report that an initial.

version of his book published by Simon. and Schuster and his speaker bio with. Simon and Schustster because he I guess. he he speaks for them too stated that he. has been a prolific fundraiser I told. the audience about this yesterday raised. over 5.5 million pounds for 80 national. charities ities over a 20-year period. And he says, including this is how he. did it, among other ways, including by. running 30 marathons in 35 days, nine of.

which were allegedly with a broken leg, 300 miles in 3 days, and 600 m in 6. days. Simon and Schustster quietly. edited Rday's bio at some point between. May 19th and July 24th, 2025. 2025 Glenn. to remove the exact amount of money. raised by Rday and to omit any mention. of the running feats. So this is very. interesting because somebody went to him. and said you raised over 5.5 million.

pounds for 80 charities over 20 years. Like that's that's actually quite a lot. How did you do that? And then the story. started to change to well there were a. lot of people involved and um I I can't. give you their names because everyone. signed an NDA because because people are. so protective of not letting anyone know. about their charitable work. Okay? Like. that's not a thing where somebody's like. we're all going to run for children's. cancer and we're going to raise a. million dollars. Everyone sign NDAs not.

disclosing our names. So [laughter] that. okay. So, that got removed. And then I. did look this up about the running. because I don't know anything about. running. I don't run. Um, but it sounds. completely not credible. All right. So, here's what I found. If he were able to. do 600 miles in six days, this would put. him among the world's top athletes. He. would be a household name in the running. community. These are considered elite.

ultraistance runners. And the community, as you will see if you look online, is. extremely skeptical. No one has ever. heard of this man. And it's a rather. small circle of people who can do this. and have done this. In fact, the world. record world record is 650 miles in 6. days. It was done on a flat circuit with. a large support team and medical help on. 247 standby. Um, one of the people in.

this circle quoted online said, "It. would be a miracle if this guy Arde. managed to do this in just street. races." He says he ran from one London. city to another. And that's how he said. it would be a miracle. And the the. addendum that at least one of these. publications made was to change the six. days to 12. Okay, he did 600 miles in. 12. That that also sounds like complete. and and he always seems to be.

folding in some some injury. It's not. enough for him to complete the feet like. allegedly. 30 marathons in 30 days. He's got to do. it or 35 days. He's got to do it on a. broken leg. Then yesterday we talked. about how he said he got his PhD in. under two and a half years. And when he. went to defend his dissertation, he had. just gotten over or just gotten treated. for a brain tumor and also some sort of.

embolism in his lung or lung infarction. He had multiple physical problems. And. yet he sat there, Glenn, and he defended. that dissertation and did so well that. they gave him his degree. And not only. that, okay, listen to this. Listen to. this. Um, Benjamin Ryan, who's been. doing a good job reporting on this, says, "In the scene in Jason Arde's. memoir, in which he defends his thesis, which I think would have been the. master's thesis one level down, the.

reviewers absolutely tear it to shreds, sending Arde into a panic attack. So, in. the hallway, Ard's mentor smacks him to. get him to calm down. He returns, finishes his defense, and gets his PhD.". Okay, so he doesn't mean a thesis, I. guess he means dissertation. The panel. requests some changes, but otherwise. passes him. Does anyone believe that. some mentor stood outside of the PhD. defense and smacked this black autistic. professor in the face? The lies are.

everywhere. >> Yeah. I mean, and so brazenly so, right? There's obviously something pathological. with him. He built his entire biography, his entire life story based on a series. of endless lies. And I think people who. do that get a kind of addiction. Like. every story has to be shocking and. remarkable, but this goes back to that. letter that you read that you asked me. about first, which I didn't talk about. this part. He made it seem as though all. he is is this kind of austere scholar. who just wants to delve into.

intellectual endeavors and and and and. research and study and do scholarship. and all these people because of who he. is are attacking him and scrutinizing. him and he never bargained for that and. he just wants to now escape it. The. reality is they turned him into a major. media star. They promoted him endlessly. The reason he got this book deal is. because he has become an extremely. talked about figure in the media. If. you're not somebody who wants media. scrutiny, you don't go and write a book.

and then go on a major book tour about. what it is that you're doing and saying. they marketed him aggressively. And. clearly because of who he is, because of. his demographics, and this is something. that happens in universities all the. time. That's I mean it's just such a. violation of meritocracy. They'll just pass people along because. they're afraid in left liberal culture. of investigating or scrutinizing people. who are in one of those protective. classes or in his case kind of the the.

most protected class because there's no. story more kind of heart tugging or. tragic than his even though it's all a. lie. And that's the issue. It's like he. okay he's obviously someone with with. pathological lying and mental issues. How did these universities, again, the. leading academic universities in the. world, miss all this, promote these fake. stories when obviously all the evidence. was not that hard to find because some. of it is just on its face preposterous. like those races.

>> Here's to your point how a professor at. Cambridge defended him. Professor Bascar. Vera who serves as the pro- vice. chancellor of education at the. University of Cambridge describes our. day as an exceptional scholar. Well, I. mean exceptional for all the wrong. reasons, but that's not how he meant it. Quote, "He will contribute significantly. to Cambridge's research in this area and. addressing he's talking about all of his.

writings about DEI and so on. addressing. the under reppresentation of people from. socioeconomically disadvantaged. backgrounds, especially those from. black, Asian, and other minority ethnic. communities. This is what he's touting. as what this guy will bring to. Cambridge, that he will address the. under representation of people from. socioeconomically disadvantaged. backgrounds, especially those from. black, Asian, and other minority ethnic. communities. He's saying it with a bunch. of dressed up words. He's black and we.

don't have enough blacks here. That is. what he's saying right there. Then he. goes on, quote, "His experiences. highlight the barriers faced by many. under represented groups across higher. education and especially at leading. universities. Cambridge has a. responsibility to do everything it can. to address this by creating academic. spaces where everyone feels they. belong." His experience highlights the. barriers faced by many underrepresented. groups. That's all they said it. They.

hired him because of his skin color. They didn't care about whether he was a. legitimate scholar or academic. And then. when the questions were raised, [snorts]. he and they played the race card at. every turn, trying to make all of his. critics [snorts]. look and feel and sound like bigots for. questioning the lies they were being. told. It's shocking to me. There's one. guy in particular um whose name is.

Nathan Kaufnness. He's a free speech. advocate. He was fired by Cambridge. College. And this guy wrote this. Substack post that got this started. saying, "I think this guy plagiarized. over a hundred different times in his. academic works." And the university. turned around and said, "You're racist. and you've been a racist for a long time. and therefore we dismiss everything.". Now we find out that Arday himself got.

not one but two different police. investigations started against his. critics. There were at least two. different people who raised questions. about him that he turned around and got. investigated by the cops. Um one is I. have so many so many articles in front. of me. Hold on. I will get you the. names. But they. they've now spoken out and one one was. investigated by the police. He only.

found out when the police admitted it uh. that his last name is Grove. Um when the. police admitted that they had been. conducting an investigation against him. for 4 months for the nerve of looking. into Professor Arde. Listen here to Sat. One with his This is the police. commissioner Sergeant Mark Rally. apologizing. >> Got to challenge you on this one. The. Metropolitan Police is accused of press. censorship for investigating a. journalist who tried to expose a. Cambridge professor who's alleged to. committed plagiarism. Jack Grove, reporter of the Times Higher Education,

a four month investigation. Why was that. necessary, Commissioner? >> Um, we dropped the ball on that one, Nick. Let's not sort of beat about the. bush. Um, a a report came in, I think it. was of harassment or or or some crime. like that. Um, it should have been. screened out earlier on as not requiring. investigation. >> When you say screened out, it should. have been a one phone call. >> Yeah. No, no further action. >> Nothing. nothing requiring police. action. It's sat on officers's workload. and he made a couple of phone calls. which in hindsight we shouldn't have. done that. So big organization will make. the odd mistake. >> Apology to the reporter involved. >> Yeah, we shouldn't have made that call.

to him and said that. >> No, you shouldn't. That was Jack Grove. that you investigated. Scotland Yard. investigated him trying to expose as he. was trying to expose a plagiarism uh. scandal. Told him to stop asking a. Cambridge professor questions, meaning. our day. Um, he worked for the Times. Higher Education, Thge. He was accused of harassment after. he emailed a series of questions to the. professor, Glenn. That was his sin. Mr. Grove said officers told him to stop. contacting the professor because the.

professor's mental health had been. affected by the questions that then Arda. also hired the law firm Carter Ruck. which suggested in a letter to th that. its apparent attack on Arda may be. racially motivated. And that wasn't even. the only time. He also reported a. different academic critic to the police. That guy's name was Dr. David Harris, professor ameritus at Plymouth Marjon. University and one of the first scholars.

to raise concerns about this guy Arda is. a villain. He's a villain. Glenn, uh, you know, Megan, one of the one of. the funniest things I've ever read in my. life, and I still laugh about it to this. day when I remember it, is that when. Elizabeth Warren went to was hired by. Harvard Law School, there started to be. these articles protesting the lack of. women of color or people of color on the. faculties of our best uh, law. law schools and there was this uh survey. and this law reviewview article that. said things are sort of starting to get.

better and there was a footnote saying. Harvard Law for for example recently. hired Elizabeth Warren the first ever. faculty member of Native or of Native. American origin and she got counted as a. woman of color at Harvard that showed. that the numbers were getting better. like we there was a time in like 2020. when everybody understood the absolute. insanity of wokeness and Mostly we've. kind of moved beyond the most extreme. versions, but in these academic. institutions where they came from.

basically where they were created and. disseminated, they thrive almost as. strongly. And what this basically is, it's so obvious, is that in part these. people who made him into an academic. star are now the people who are supposed. to investigate it. And they don't want. to admit that they were part of these. gross errors because it's not just him. They'd have to explain themselves. But. the much bigger part is so obvious. >> It's like the media and Fouchy by the. way. It's like the media right now. >> Exactly. Exactly. And so many other. instances as well. But the bigger part.

of it, which again I like I don't. necessarily find there any anything. wrong or it's not like ill intention if. somebody kind of finds it refreshing or. nice or interesting that somebody from a. very disadvantaged background o. overcomes all that and gets to Cambridge. because usually they're from rich. families and they have a certain path. and if someone can do that but it has to. be true right in order to be celebrated. and because it was somebody who was.

black because it was somebody from his. background. Instantly they started. ascribing to the people who were. investigating it racist motives even. though the racist motives were the. people who were defending him for no. reason other than his race. >> And that that's always the projection. You know, it's like those are the people. who are thinking this is a black person. Other people were thinking this is a. celebrated scholar who's getting more. famous but seems to have a whole history. of lies. and he would not.

>> This is a factor here but it's a factor. that helped him at every turn. No one. was coming down on him because he was. black. Exactly. Right. He was promoted. because he was black and then defended. knee-jerk defense. That guy Nathan. Kaufness again he's a former Cambridge. professor who was one of the first. people to detect a fraud here. He came. out on X and said game over now that. Ardeday resigned. Now I'd like to hear. from the Cambridge University. administrators who said this was a quote. vile campaign against a worldclass.

scholar and said that Arday had been. cleared by the investigations of any. wrongdoing. They said a victim of a vile. campaign to undermine his credibility. which must stop. That's what Cambridge. said. They have lost all credibility. They have humiliated themselves. Um, I. got to get to Eli Steel, who we love. He's the son of Shelby Steele and is a. filmmaker in his own right. One of the. early guests, not quite as early as.

Glenn Greenwald, our podfather. But. >> foundation for him. >> Totally. He said, "Glenn Greenwald goes. on this show. Why wouldn't I? I mean, I'm in." Um, so Eli and his dad Shelby. are very outspoken on the issue of race. Shelby Steele has been an academic. scholar in the in the vein of Thomas. Soul. Um, very well respected and was. respected by the academy as well until. he started as a black man to write. truths about the issues we're discussing. here. And then he was kicked out of that.

polite society because he wasn't saying. the right things anymore. Glenn Lowry. has a similar story about um what's. happened to him. Um Carol Swain, she's. got an identical story to that. Glenn. wasn't kicked out of academia, but had. received blowback. Okay. Um here's what. Eli posted. He said, "Personally, I. couldn't care less about Jason Arde. If. anything, he's a kind of victim here, though one that bears tremendous. responsibility for his actions. I say. victim because his stories and the work. he did without rigorous examination that.

one would expect of a top school like. Cambridge. Um, oh, because his stories. and the work that he did went without. rigorous examination that one would. expect there. They did this because. Ard's black and to check their diversity. poster boy story story would run the. risk of them being charged with racism. The whites wanted their innocence, however false it was. And it is these. whites who claimed to care about black. excellence. And that is the cruelty. here. Now listen to this part. When. Cambridge shielded Arda from the kind of. scrutiny that nearly all professors.

face, they did not defend the remaining. integrity of academia. Instead, they. only confirmed the ugly stereotypes that. are whispered about black scholars that. they cannot do the work and that the bar. must be lowered. This is the price that. blacks who choose the path of merit must. pay for the cowardice of the weak who. play the black power white guilt coin. So good. So true. >> Yeah. And this is, you know, this is. something I think you and I have talked.

about this before. This is something. embedded in leftwing culture that. masquerades is defending marginalized. groups, but in reality has a very kind. of paternalistic view of them. I. remember 10 years ago when I was at the. Intercept, we were talking about having. journalists participate in the comment. section because it builds community. And. people came along and said, "That's easy. for you to say, but we have people of. color who are journalists and females. who are journalists, and the comment. sections can be really vitriolic, and. they shouldn't be expected to confront.

that." As though women, people of color. can't handle critical or harsh comments. on the on the internet. Only white. people can. And they didn't realize how. actually racist that is. And there's so. many examples like that where they'll. try and, you know, provide this kind of. theory that women are not really strong. enough to withstand the normal rigors of. political discourse and political. argument. And here this is exactly what. this is all based on. the idea that if.

you if you have a black. uh scholar uh academic star and somebody. starts scrutinizing their record, it. can't be because they're doing it for. the same reason academic records get. scrutinized all the time because they. might be h have errors in them. They. might have misled. There might be. plagiarism. No, it has to be racism. And. this is, as you say, this is what. demeanes the accomplishments of actual. black scholars. They are saying. basically improving all the time. We.

have black scholars climb the ladder not. because they're great scholars but. because they're black and that's what we. want. And then you have you know black. scholars and you'll hear this from black. people all the time who say the fact. that they're doing that demeans my own. accomplishments because people assume. that I too climbed the ladder of success. not because I had the merits or or. accomplishments to do it but because I. was black and it was kind of grease for. me and nobody really stood in my way. It's it's actually it it's it's I and. it's it's it's racism masquerading as.

liberal enlightenment and it's made me. sick for so long. >> Yes. Yes. Go back. I mean I guarantee. you go back and take a look at Thomas. Soul's early academic writings. You're. not going to find a bunch of plagiarism. and fraud in his bio. You're just not. you're not going to find that with Glenn. Lowry either. It's take any Supreme. Court justice and see how they did in. law school or what papers they wrote or. their their law review articles that. they wrote for their journal. They're. not going to be full of plagiarism and. like white, black, female or male. This. is not a thing for true academics. True.

academics as they're rising up the. ladder understand the rules perfectly. and follow them. That's generally how. people who are very very successful in. these fields anyway, maybe not in tech, uh get successful. That's how they do. it. They play by the rules. They work. harder. They have a need for approval. that actually they turn around in this. world and make really work for them. and. they choose industries where that that's. perfect. You know, you you can get. promoted based on pleasing others with. excellent work. You know, like there are. a lot of industries where that's still a.

thing and that's a great thing. Uh this. guy was a fraud and managed to sort of. come in sideways to this industry. because he had certain qualifications. that that women like his boss at. Cambridge who looks like a fool um. really enjoyed. Do we have this lady? She's uh Yeah, we got her. You'd play. the sound bite. Here she is talking to. him. >> Professor Jason Aldiday was diagnosed. with autism spectrum disorder at the age. of three. He couldn't speak until he was.

11 and read or write until he was 18. Therapists predicted he would need. full-time assistance throughout his. life. How wrong they were. And now Jason. is days away from achieving another. ambition. >> Here she is. >> Here's his new boss at Cambridge. Part. of his research will look at new ways to. make higher education more accessible. for everyone. >> What can we do to ensure that this isn't. a market appointment in 5 years time?

How can this become the norm? >> We've listened to the voices of our. black scholars and our black students. Um and some of it has not been easy to. hear to be honest, but we're able to. face up to some of the um structural. issues that people that people face. >> There will be those I think this is a. tokenistic appointment. What are your. thoughts on this? >> The board of electors on your um. interview day were absolutely unanimous. We are so lucky to have you. Uh you are.

the best in the world in terms of the. research that you do. Oh my god, Glenn. Her name is Professor. Hillary Kreman. C R E M I N. You can. it's just it oozing off of her. This. condescension, you know, this bootlicking, which she. would do for no she would do for no. other new professor there. He gets to. cross-examine her on how this is not. going to be seen as tokenism. It is.

tokenism. So that's how it will be seen. and and you've got professors at. Cambridge running around on the record. saying that's exactly why you were. hired. As for the it was unanimous what. an amazing exceptional scholar you are. Here's just a couple of new evidence. posts. This is from the UK Times last. night. All right, it's important to. offer the actual example so people. understand this is not just madeup. that he that he was a fraud. His stuff. is made up but our criticisms aren't. Um. this is again the UK times. They find.

their analysis of his writings find his. assertions literally impossible in. instance after instance. So this is okay. one of his papers in one of his papers. he he quotes a Latin American academic. as saying quote my understanding of. English is improving daily. Sometimes I. struggle to articulate clearly and. accurately what I would like to say to. the health care professionals provided. at university. Nice. Okay. Okay, kind of. anodine, whatever. There was just one.

issue, reports the paper. Three years. prior, he had attributed this exact same. quote to an Asian female undergraduate, not a Latin American academic. the exact. quote, Glenn. Um, we talked about this. one yesterday about how he gave a. webinar in July 2020 talking about a. paper that he was about to publish and. he referred to a participant who took. their own life reading out this person's. quote detailing the violence of these. racialized cultures in the academic. world. Then he did publish the paper. He.

used near identical quotes and weirdly. there was no reference to this person. committing suicide. That seems like kind of an important. detail where you're talking about the. violence of racialized cultures in the. academic world. Why would you not then. talk about the fact in your written. paper the man wound up taking his own. life? Seems relevant. No. And then in. one paper titled attempting to break the. chain, reimagining inclusive pedagogy. and decolonizing the curriculum within. the academy. He says he interviewed a.

sample of 17 participants, but a. breakdown of their races, genders, and. jobs adds up to 18. Well, okay. Anybody. can make a mistake like that, right? Maybe he was just off by one. Further. oddities appear. They write. He quotes. four distinct academics but says he only. only interviewed three. He quotes five. mixed heritage participants but. interviewed only four. He attributes a. quote to participant number 21 in a. study that only interviewed 17 or 18. Similar issues appear in [snorts] five. studies. Pick a paper, any paper, and you will.

find it littered with these so-called. innocent errors. Glenn. >> Yeah. And this is what I mean, Megan. You know, it they they weren't just. saying like, "Oh, look at how amazing it. is that he made it to the faculty." They. were trying to promote him as some kind. of like generationally brilliant scholar. doing the kind of scholarly work that. very few academics ever are able to. actually achieve. So in order to you. would think that if you actually were an. academic and you were heaping praise on.

somebody's scholarly work that way you. would have a very in-depth understanding. of it clearly they just looked at him. they thought it was a nice story it. probably word of mouth about how. brilliant he is and then they just went. with it and I think again if you go back. to any faculty or any any campus these. days and again I think we have passed. some of the worst you know woke. uh insanities. Nothing there has changed. If anything, it's regressed. And so this idea that.

there's some woman using that kind of. condescending tone saying, "No, you are. one of the most brilliant appointees. We. This is obviously such a fraud." And I. actually think that academic. institutions are important. I I think. having great universities is a really. important thing for society. It is so. tragic what has been done to our. universities. the way in which the. cheapest just kind of most corrupted. politics have been have contaminated. every component of hiring and rules for.

discourse and how classrooms are are. conducted. And again, I mean, if. Cambridge can shoot this guy up the. ladder despite zillions of red flags. that basically they chose not to see. because they thought it was racist to. investigate him. It's such a sad. indictment on on our major western. institutions of of universities. >> completely. Um I wanna I want to tell you that so. now I some of the people are actually. questioning now this origin story. whether he really did have autism.

whether it was asberers as he later. claimed it was whether he really was. nonverbal uh entirely until he was 11. Whether he didn't he couldn't read or. write one word until age 17 or 18. Of. course, there's reason to doubt all of. this because he's told way too many lies. to count. He's obviously a serial. fabulist, a pathological liar. That's. seems clear. Now, as we speak, Benjamin. Ryan, who I just mentioned, um. independent journalist, he posts the.

following online. Does Jason Ardea. actually have epilepsy? Yet another. disability he claims he's been laboring. under. In his memoir, Jason Arde claims. to have developed epilepsy after being. savagely beaten at a bus stop at age 18. He claims he wears a medical alert. bracelet that tracks his whereabouts, but I can find no evidence in any photo. that he wears such a bracelet. So, it. does make you wonder whether that too is. a lie. Yesterday, we touched on this. briefly, Glenn, but he also has been.

since this story broke and what tracks. with his resignation letter, you know, poor me. I need to find some peace. It's. too high a price. This has been. relentless. >> Spend time with my family. >> I'm leaving. >> He also seems to have been making up. stories of a harassment that he claims. have broken since this story broke, which that seems right on on brand for. him, right? Like now allegedly the evil. racists who are everywhere are getting.

even racist all over him. He claims to. have been threatened and assaulted. multiple times. A panic button was. installed in his office after he claimed. this after the alleged first encounter. with a masked asalent that weirdly was. not reflected on any of the CCTV. covering the university. Uh, and he. claims to have pushed the button, but no. one came. So Cambridge was now ignoring. the panic button calls of its favored.

black professor who had already said he. was attacked, but he pressed he pressed. the panic button and they were like, "Eh." [laughter]. Similar to how the palace told Megan. Markle when she said, "I'm about to kill. myself." That they couldn't help her and. she'd have to walk away and deal with it. on her own. >> Yeah. Go find some help. >> Um, but don't you think the same day of. the second? Yeah. Uhhuh. >> Yeah. So I'm almost done. same day of. the second attack. In quotes, he. continued with his working day and. conducted a PhD viva for a student less.

than two hours later. Not to mention the. intruder was not picked up on any campus. cameras. So, these are two alleged. incident. And then he claimed that a. severed pig's head was sent to his home. that he immediately threw it away. He. had no evidence of it, Glenn, but trust. him. someone sent a severed pig's head. to him and only told the police about it. months later, but then claimed that they. did conduct an investigation. The. Guardian um because all this is being. dis dismissed as a right-wing press. operation. The Guardian, okay, that's. basically as left as the Intercept. Um.

The Guardian went to all the butchers in. town. No one knew anything about a. severed pig's head. Didn't sell one. Didn't none of that. And went to the. police who said, "Absolutely not. We. have never investigated such a thing.". This guy watched too many episodes of. The Godfather. He believed the thing. with the horse's head in the bed. He. changed it to a pig's head outside of. his front door. But now this is a. defense mechanism and he's suggesting. like suicidal thoughts. You've the. university others have come out saying. they're worried he's going to commit. suicide. Stop. Back off. They're playing.

that card, Glenn, as though we're the. villains for looking into this. It. >> It's really the worst expression of. leftwing culture. the thing that has. alienated so many people. I mean, if you. go I was just listening to all the. different examples you cited of where he. either lied or seems to have made claims. about something that happened to him. that have no evidence. Each one of them. what they have in common is it's a form. of victimhood, right? like even the. autism, even all these diseases, he. claims he has these attacks on him.

because victimhood, this kind of. victimhood is the currency of how you. get social capital in academic circles. and academic institution and leftwing. circles. You know, I I don't know how. often you interact with people in Gen Z. My kids are are basically like kind of. on the border of Gen Z. so many of their. friends who are in Gen Z constantly have. all these ailments, you know, that that. people have never really heard of. before. It's kind of like a it's partly. a a a way of excusing your failures or.

excusing anything that's happened or. generating sympathy, but part of it is. just like victimhood is the thing that. everybody craves and is taught to crave. because that's the thing that generates. the most benefits. And it seems like. he's just in a very extreme case of. where he built his entire biography on. the most extreme victimhood possible and. the universities ate it up and so did. the media that was turning him into a. star. I think that's what is a big part. of what's happening here. I think he's only 37 years old now. And.

in that time, he wants us to believe. that he had autism asberers, um, epilepsy, non-verbal to 11, couldn't. read or write until 18, was also. dyslexic, that he suffered a brain. tumor, some sort of lung infarction, that he had a broken leg as he was. running 30 miles in 30 30 marathons in. 30 days, that he was beaten up so badly. at a bus stop, that he got epilepsy, that he was attacked on the University. of Cambridge um, and threatened multiple.

times But CCTV never caught it. And um. that now they're dumping severed pigs. heads in his yard. I mean, it's it's. beyond. [laughter]. Okay, we got to go. We're coming right. back, though. There's much more for. Glenn. Don't go away. We'll get to. Ariana Grande and Perez Hilton. A lot of. thoughts on that. Stay tuned. [music]. Hey, thanks for watching today's full. episode. If you're new here, throw us a. subscribe. See what you think. Stay in.

touch. There's plenty more goodness. where this one came from. As always, we. really do value your feedback. So, email. me, too. Meganme. kelly.com or just leave a comment down. below. I do read them. I meander over. and I scroll through and I find them. very entertaining and really appreciate. the feedback. But in any event, join the. community by becoming a subscriber, so. you miss nothing. We value your support. We may not always agree on positions, but as you know, I'm very open-minded to. people who disagree with me. That's how. I learn. So, thanks and thanks for.

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Visit burna.com to find a BurnA dealer. partner near you. That's by Yrna.com. Okay, Glenn. Um, [music] let's talk. about I guess we'll do Ariana Grande. next. Um, Ariana Grandee's people are. saying, well, there's a report that. concern is growing uh behind the scenes. about her with multiple insiders telling. um, naughty but nice, that's our friend. Rob Shooter, uh, that they are quietly.

exploring treatment options for her and. wellness facilities once she completes. her tour later this year. Rob is like. formerly of the in on the inside of. Hollywood. He represented a lot of very. like household names um people who you. know just by their first names for many. many years as their PR uh person and now. he's uh doing this Substack which is. actually very popular naughty but nice. and he's been on the show a few times. and go on Moren Callahan's the nerve. In. any event, so this is Rob reporting that.

concern behind the scenes is growing for. her. Multiple insiders telling Naughty. but nice that her inner circle is. quietly exploring treatment options when. she completes her tour. Um, Grande has. never said that she has an eating. disorder, but you take one look at her, Glenn, and you'd be crazy not to suspect. she does. Look at this picture here we. are showing where it is. She is skin and. bones. Um, I mean the clavicle, the just.

all of the bones on the torso are pro. protruding above her V-neck dress. Her. arms look skeletal. Her face has looked. skeletal for quite some time. This is. from her most recent musical music. video. And I want to show you something. We actually we started looking into this. this problem and this report. came across her latest music video. Um. it's incredible. Not only does she look.

incredibly skinny, but in this music. video she murders a panel of judgmental. talent scouts and entertainment. executives with a chainsaw. Are we Is it just VO, Deb? It's not a. Let's Yeah, let's play it. Watch.

[music]. >> My god. Omg, she is covered in blood. You can see her. with a chainsaw hacking off the heads. and the bodies of these executives. Um, and their blood is spewing. everywhere. She's got she's got problems, Glenn. Obviously, this woman's got problems. And what's really crazy about this.

report is that they um they reportedly. her people reportedly are they're not. going to rush her off to um rehab or. whatever she's going in for right now. They they want to wait. They they think. that she should be allowed to um. complete her tour and you know sort of. finish her public appearances and then. then they're going to encourage her to. go into some sort of wellness program or.

treatment program because let's face it, everyone needs to get paid off of the. juggernaut that is Ariana Grande. You know what's amazing to me is that. it'd be one thing if she just showed up. at some talk show or a word show and her. extremely emaciated. condition were noticeable. This happened. in a music video that was produced. obviously with all kinds of money and.

very well accomplished people. They. could have edited it. They could have, you know, I I don't know, covered it up. Did not did no one notice that she was. it was like it wasn't just like oh she. looks a little thin. It it was shocking. to watch. I don't she almost looked like. an olitz victim. You know when you've. seen them come out and every bone that. shouldn't be visible is visible. >> Yeah. That scene is with that d and also. they dressed her in a way that made it. visible too. So why would they do that?

>> Now obviously I don't know for sure what. the eating disorder is. Obviously people. speculate it's anorexia. could be a. different kind of health problem that. causes that kind of severe weight loss, but there's clearly something going very. wrong. And how many times have we seen. that celebrities of this stature who are. just constantly working in the public. eye, you know, put it have, as you said, so many people depend on them for all. kinds of money and profit, want to keep. them, you know, running like a workhorse. like they did with Michael Jackson. How. many of them end up in these kinds of.

debilitated conditions? It's really kind. of a sad indictment of our celebrity. industry and everything else. But at the. end of the day, she's an adult and it's. just very hard to understand how. somebody surrounded by all these. management teams and studios and. directors could have allowed it to get. to this point where not just she saw and. that and that is her condition, but the. the whole public saw. >> Yeah. You you know, um she's 33 years. old now. She was of course a former. child star. We we talked about her last. year when the whole Nickelodeon scandal.

um became D household news with with. that one executive having sexualized. every young girl Jaime Lynn Spears, Ariana Grande, many others who came on. Nickelodeon, these young sweet girls um. who he tried to turn into soft porn. stars. And of course they were so young. they didn't realize half the time what. he was having them do. Maybe they did. realize. I don't know. But either way, it was completely exploitative. And.

then, of course, there were actual. pedophiles running around Nickelodeon as. well. Actual pedophiles uh as well. And. she came up at Nickelodeon. and she was one of the girls they asked. to do very inappropriate scenes. We have. the one cut. I mean, it's it almost. requires a viewer warning. Not really, but it's from Nickelodeon. And here's a. very young Ariana Grande being. completely exploited in S 13. Sometimes. I wonder if you can get juice [music]. from a potato. [snorts and gasps].

[crying]. [screaming]. [groaning]. >> Did that air on Nickelodeon? >> Come on, give up the juice. >> Yikes. >> I'm thirsty. >> In another video, Ariana's pouring water. on herself in what seems like a [music]. very sexual manner, and people started. saying, "This feels inappropriate for. children. Oh my god. Alexa Nichols was another. one. She came on the show and told us. everything. Um, we'll get the episode. number if you guys want to go back and.

watch it, but that was a documentary. called Quiet on Set. But the this. there's a reason 99% of parents say no. to putting their child in front of the. camera at a very young age or in front. of a microphone as was done to Justin. Bieber, etc. You could not pay me enough money to put. my kids in in like especially in the. Hollywood machine given everything we. know about the just utter immorality and. the exploitation that takes place on. every last level there and has for.

decades. And all you have to do is look. at the people who became child stars in. some way or another. It's almost. inevitable that they end up, you know, in a kind of tragic adulthood. I I. remember one of the times I was on your. show, you talked about you had just seen. the Michael Jackson movie and really. liked it. I happened to watch it on a. plane. I was in the US this week, came. back and I I watched it as well and that. was the thing that again struck me is. you take these people and put them to. work at the age of 10 and 11. Their. whole family depends on their income.

Major corporations need them to to to to. perform well. That kind of pressure a. child is not ill equipped for to say. nothing of the fame that goes along with. it. How many child stars have actually. ended up doing quite well? There are. some, but most of them end up getting. out of Hollywood. And I'm sure that's. >> Jodie Foster. That's the And that's it. >> The only She's the exception that proves. the rule. Exactly. She turned out. extremely well. But even she took time. off like she went to Yale. She got out. of the business for like 15 years.

>> So yeah, it's it's it's kind of tragic. to watch that. >> Here is a different take. Link Lauren, who's part of our MK Media podcast. network, uh, and has a great show. Um, he has a different take and, um, I. always love checking in with Link to see. he's got his finger on the pulse when it. comes to cultural phenoms like Ariana. Here's what he has to say in SA 15. I. got a message this morning from a mom. whose daughter went to Ariana Grande's. concert and came home and said she was. so sad. She was concerned. She felt like.

Ariana's energy wasn't there. When. millions of her fans are saying, "We're. concerned. We love you. Are you okay? tell us you're okay. She says nothing, but she has her publicist go out there. and tell the public, "How dare you? How. dare you question her?" All of this. endless scrutiny. You can't play smart. and dumb at the same time. She wants to. put out a music video on a Friday, showing off how thin and skinny she is, and then two days later, her team is. going to put out a statement saying, "How dare you talk about her weight? We're the bad guys. We're the bad guys.

Don't play me for a fool." Ariana Grande. is a grown ass woman. I would bet my. bottom dollar that is not how she talks. when she's in her business meetings. She. is very shrewd. She's very strong, but. she wants to play this little petal, this little petal flower character where. she's pulled from piece to piece and. she's barely hanging on by a thread. I. think it's all propaganda. I think it's. all part of a marketing campaign. I'm. just not buying any of it. The name of that song is Pedal, but you.

know, he he may be on to something. there, Glenn. I. >> I I definitely I definitely think so. And it reminds me of the story we we. talked about first with that that. Cambridge academic. She had been saying. for several years now, stop talking. about my body. Stop talking about the. body of female celebrities. It's very. degrading. Whether you think it's good. or bad, it's just not healthy. We. shouldn't be doing it. I mean, come on. Hollywood is an industry where your. physical appearance plays an absolutely.

crucial role in pretty much everything. If you don't want people commenting on. your physical appearance, don't don't go. into Hollywood. But even if you, you. know, are kind of sympathetic to that, we shouldn't be like micromanaging. women's bodies or whatever. Sorry, but. if you stick a very well-known figure. who has millions of fans in front of a. in a m music video that everybody sees. and it's actually quite shocking and and. horrifying to see a human being that. thin who's not, you know, suffering from. some kind of terminal disease, people.

are going to talk about it. But you're. right, then they come out as Link said. and he's like, "How dare you? This is. not a matter for public uh discussion.". Actually, it really is because women. like her and the way she looks. influences huge numbers of of young. girls, especially all over the world. And that is an extremely sickly and. unhealthy look. Of course, we should be. talking about that. >> And look, I I'm sorry. I was just saying. to the team in the break, like if if you. want if you want to not have anybody. comment on your looks, there are so many.

jobs in which that will absolutely be. easy. You know, I worked as a. telemarketer before I went to law. school. I loved it. It was actually I. made a decent amount of money and I was. not bad. And um nobody commented on my. looks. Nobody had a thought on my looks. No one could even see me. It was on the. telephone. I could have kept doing. something like that. But if you're going. to put yourself on camera for a living, you have to expect that some people are. going to make comments about your looks. I think the general bargain most people.

are thinking is they either won't. comment or to the extent they do comment. the majority of comments will be nice or. neutral. >> concerned or concerned not like. malicious but like I'm I'm worried about. her not like. >> percentage won't be. >> of course welcome to the internet. >> right that's life it's not really a you. thing it's a it's a life thing and you. really especially if you're going to be. as big a star as Ariana Ariana Grande, like you're going to have to expect it.

Thin, fat. They'd be saying the same. things if she were fat. Like it. whatever. But her appearance is striking. now. It's striking. When you see. somebody's bones protruding like what's. happening with Dei Moore, you have to. comment. I mean, it's like what's I see. it. And if you don't call it out, it. does feel a little like normal helping. her normalize it, which we do definitely. do not want with a bunch of young. impressionable women who are her biggest. fans. That's what her fan base is, all. these young girls. Um, okay. So, this is.

actually a good leadin into the Perez. Hilton discussion. So, Perez Hilton two nights ago went on. TikTok. and filmed himself. It was a live stream. and he was sort of writhing. semidancing. in on camera. covered in blood. He looked like Ariana. Grande looked in that video. >> Exactly. Exactly.

>> Right. In terms of the blood coverage, >> covered everywhere. Exactly. >> Everywhere. He had one of those knives. that we all use to cut like an uncut. loaf of bread, like a long, [clears throat] you know, 10-in blade. I. did not see a serrated edge, but there. may there may have been. Before we show. you the video, I'm just going to tell. you it's disturbing. We're not showing. you the raw video. We blurred it, but. you can see enough that it's you get. what happened. And um here it is.

We took the sound out because it's it's. just extra disturbing. He's taking this. knife and he's rubbing it across his. stomach, his neck, the back of him, and. he's making sounds that sound almost. sexual uh while he does it. It doesn't. It's not exactly like cries of pain to. me. me it sounded almost sexual and I. think that's by design he's trying to. make it sound sort of titilating and the.

soundtrack on what was aired is as. follows. I'm surprised Tik Tok lets this. stay. he yells. You ugay, he means online. Then he says, "Ah," as. he's cutting himself, "Yeah, it hurts, but it feels so good, too." Then this is. the part we have to discuss. I'm a parasite loser, he says. This is what you all wanted. Then he goes on to say, 'You know, it.

would be interesting interesting to see. what happens after you die. Then he has. three people join him on on his live. stream. Maybe this is a show he does. because three other people come on and. seem absolutely shocked. They know him. They clearly work with him to see what. he's doing. They say, "Perez, what the f. are you doing?" And he says, "Committing. suicide." And they say, "No, no, no. That's not what we're doing here." And. and he says, "Yes, it is." Um and then. they called the authorities. the. authorities came were in I don't know if.

we should use the word standoff but they. were in a situation outside the house. for quite some time where they thought. it would only escalate the situation if. they went in. So they must have heard or. known something to lead them to that. conclusion and eventually did go in. after quite some time got him. He was. alive and brought him to the hospital. where he remains. His family says that. they are relieved he's talking. They. said they've he's able to communicate. which has given them hope. They say. information about his condition remains. limited. He continues to recover.

Now. to me, Glenn, this is like it's very sad. and I absolutely wish Perez well and I. feel very sad about. how he got here and what he did that he. felt that he had no other option but but. this obviously the meltdown of a human. being. But I also can't help but notice that it. is in a way the perfect period at the. end of.

not the end of a life but at the end of. a chapter a long chapter of what I hope. will be a long life. And that chapter is. life on the internet. life almost solely on the internet. where rather than touching grass and. walking through woods and swimming in. lakes, you are online. all the time. doing the the lowest thing possible for.

your spirit, which is viciously. viciously mocking random celebrities, right? It's fine. I mean, they put. themselves out there. Again, as I'm. saying, it's they're fair game, but. Perez Hilton really has made a a. business of going to the lowest places, outing various LGBT. people, um posting naked photos of like. Jennifer Lawrence that she did not bless. or sanction. He's gone after so many. huge celebs so pointedly that it's.

really impacted them. like Jennifer. Aniston called him out and she's been. the subject of non-stop tabloid coverage. and so but he he is the one who got to. her and he's he's apologized for it many. times only to then start doing it again. he's I'm not trying to demonize Perez in. any way I'm saying this is his journey. and he himself seems to have you know he. said he found God not long ago he had a. bad case of sepsis and said I found God. and it's real and he found me but then. he kind of goes back and I just think.

there's a consequence to one's mental. health in spending your life day after. day after day in a toxic industry online. where the clicks, the likes and all that. are never going to be enough for you and. the vitriol will always feel like it. outweighs the kindness. >> Yeah, I could not agree more. He was one. of the kind of OGs of the who became an. internet celebrity through this kind of. blog. You know, it was like a blog about.

uh celebrities about the entertainment. industry. Very gossipy, lots of. speculative blind items and stuff. Not. exactly rewarding or fulfilling work. And as a result, he became very. polarizing. So, he's not only been on. the internet for a long time, he's been. doing a kind of work that, as you say, it's just kind of like the. bottom of the barrel. it can't be very. uh rewarding, but then also it produces. a lot of hate from people in Hollywood, from people who think what you're doing. is kind of scummy. He's been at the. middle of a lot of internet.

controversies. And when you have a life. that is almost entirely emerged from the. internet first and then social media and. it doesn't seem like you have much else. going on. While I think the internet has. been a net plus, social media and people. who are are just always online, especially in the middle of things that. they may not handle very well, right? Like in in our profession, you get. attacks and negative uh criticism and. insults all the time that can be pretty.

vicious, but you develop a thin skin and. and it's not really the only thing. you're doing. >> Thick skin. >> Yeah, sorry. A thick skin. Uh and you. learn how to to deal with it and not. take it really personally. He just seems. to be the kind of person who was such a. child of the internet, like almost. inextricably linked with the worst parts. of it. Obviously, I don't know what else. is going on in his life. I unfortunately. saw that video before it was blurred. when it first came and it was I don't. think I can't remember the last time I'. I've seen something so viscerally. horrifying. I mean, that was a state of.

human existence that is very rare and. very difficult to get to. And I can't. help also, as you suggested, think that. there's a strong component of it that is. this social media like just the the the. the the drags of the internet in which. he's he's resided for so long. >> Yes. Yes. One must rescue oneself from. that place. As he's spoken out over over. the years about his depression and which. he has admitted has been extreme, severe.

at times. that was the time for people. around him and I understand his mother. is still in the picture and helps him. raise his three kids who he had there. his biological children who he had via. surrogate um he's a gay man um his. mother's still around like somebody. needed to go to him and say Perez. you got to find a different way to make. a living the internet is not for you you. know it's it was um. Scarlett Johansson pretty sure Scarlett.

Johansson who when asked why why don't. you have a big like Instagram or online. presence. >> said I I'm not strong enough for that. like I'm too tenderhearted. I I love that answer. I totally get that. that it's not for everyone. Th this. business that we do certainly where. you're in politics basically which is. not not beanag his business you know. celebrity commentary can get very ugly. too. these PR people are just as vicious.

as their the commentators are and they. will cut they will cut you. Um. it's not for everyone and I think. somebody needed to go to Perez earlier. and say Perez there are other ways to. make a living. you know, he just moved. from Las Vegas to Miami where I guess he. grew up and uh it's not his real name, but um I hope that's the message he. walks away with. And I hope he genuinely. just unplugs and says, you know what, the internet is a toxic stew that we are. not forced to consume.

>> You know, without invading his privacy. and whatever he wants to keep secret, he. has the right to. I I do think it's. worthwhile to try and understand why. that happened because it's not just that. he did something he he was depressed or. even ended up killing himself. the state. of human existence that he was in that. you watched if you watched that video. that is something I mean genuinely. terrifying. It's like to you have to be. pushed very very far mentally to do what. he was doing. And I do think it's trying. it's worth trying to figure out whether.

there's something about social media and. the internet and the entertainment. industry that and and that the the the. kind of internet factory precincts in. which he uh resided for so long that. caused that because that was not just a. breakdown. That was something I I don't. know. I haven't seen many things like. that before. >> No, it was it was a next level [snorts]. meltdown and cry for help. Yeah. >> Uh my team sent me this Scarlett. Johansson. >> quote. Uh, I honestly am too fragile a. person to have social media. I can't. My.

ego is too fragile. My brain is too. fragile. I'm like a delicate flower. I. actually really appreciate that. >> Good for her for realizing that, you. know, for like Yeah. for for accepting. that and not needing the constant. attention of social media. I I respect. that. >> Me too. Totally. Um, I I'm sure it's he. is not a del delicate flower, but it's. one of the reasons I think Tucker no. longer goes on social media because.

though he's not a delicate flower, he. doesn't enjoy consuming all the nonsense. and the hatred. And I think he wants to. protect his brain too. He doesn't want. to be like misguided or misled. Uh, and. he wants to curate his sources of. information more. But I I just quickly I. don't think our brains are constructed. or designed or our mental health is to. >> have this endless, you know, continuous. intense receipt of extremely hateful and. critical attacks on your character, on. the things you said. I do think.

protecting yourself from that is is. important because I just don't think our. brains are designed to to handle that. well. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I get asked that. question all the time like, "How do you. take it? How do you take it?" And I say. the truth, which is I I don't enjoy it. and it's I am not immune to it. Like I. I'd love to be able to tell you like ah. it doesn't affect me at all. Whatever. No, it it does affect me. I don't like. it at all. It bothers me. But. >> that's kind of not the test in our. industry. The test is do you keep going. or not? And you do have to keep going. You must keep going. You cannot let.

people who are attacking you silence. you. That's a different story. >> Um. >> okay. So, speaking of people in our. industry, Whoopi Goldberg would like you. to know she gets a huge paycheck. Huge. [snorts] Over at The View, but she's. still just a common person who works for. a living. I'm not sure where she's going. with this, but let's listen together. Stop 23. >> What made you even want to get on that. show? Because. >> a job. >> You know what I mean? >> I needed a job. Barbara offered me a. job. She said, "We we just lost uh one.

of the people on the show. would you uh. consider coming over? And I had been. doing a radio show. >> Yeah. >> And I said, "Absolutely." Yeah. And so. she brought me over and it's like I've. been crazy glued to that chair. >> Oh my gosh. What do you love about it? Because I mean, first of all, the show. is called. >> I love the check. >> I can only imagine what that check is. >> No. No. You can't. No. Trust [laughter]. me, YOU CAN'T.

>> I LOVE IT. You would be shotless and you. would be shocked. >> Welcome to the view. I can play her, guys. [laughter]. >> Yeah, but as soon as they showed you. that check, you'd be like, "What the. >> That's incredible. I love it." Praise. God. Praise God. >> It is what it is. >> Okay. I I can't totally tell there if. she's suggesting it's incredibly large. or incredibly small. Um, but Yashar Ali, independent journalist, is reporting. that he did reporting on Whoopi not long.

ago and she was getting paid $6 million. a year. So, if she's lamenting it's too. strong, she's a fool. It's it's too it's. too low. She's a fool. And if she's. lamenting or bragging that it's too big, she's unlikable. I mean, either way, this is not a great comment. But she. actually goes on to just suggest she. understands the plight of working people. out there right now, Glenn, because of. her pay because she's just a working.

girl and she needs to work. This is the. point that she was making in this. podcast. I work for a living and. therefore I understand people who are. having a hard time. I appreciate that. people are having a hard time. Me too. I. work for a living. If I had all the. money in the world, I would not be here. Okay? So, I'm a working person, you. know. My kid has to feed her family. My. great granddaughter has to be fed by her. family. I know it's hard out there. I. don't think she does know I don't think. she knows a thing. Glenn, your thoughts.

You know, I I saw the Yasher Ali post, too, and it was based on this Hollywood. Reporter article that summarized that. interview you just showed, and it was. very definitive that she was saying, "My. salary is so incredibly abundant and. gigantic at the view that you would be. shocked if you actually saw it." Like, that was just the interpretation they. assumed she meant. And I don't who goes. around saying that like you won't. believe how much money I'm making? It. would shock you. >> I'm so rich. There was like, yeah, I'm.

so rich. I have infinite money. But the. reason why I wasn't sure that it was. that was because about a year ago or a. year and a half ago, and I I noticed. this. I I don't know why I noticed. things that are gross about the view. She was talking at that table and she. was saying, "I understand the plight of. the working of working people and the, you know, groceries and the inflation. that they're facing." And someone was. like, "How do you understand that? You. haven't had that in 50 years." And she's. like, "You're absolutely wrong. I I.

don't have make enough money here to to. retire. I have to work. I have people to. to to support." So, she was there. claiming for my stature as an Oscar. winning woman who used to be on the. A-list in Hollywood. I make very little. here to the point where I can't even. quit. Which also is quite disgusting. because she makes between six and seven. million. And I'm not saying that that is. the A-list a year for just sitting at. that table doing an hour show. I'm not. saying that is an A-list kind of salary.

like Jennifer Anderson making $30. million whatever but if you're going to. go on the air and say I make six and. seven million which makes me make part. of the working class to the point where. I understand their plight when you've. been a so I don't know which is worse. Megan was she boasting about how much. money she makes or lamenting that she. didn't make more even though it's like. so much more than anybody ever makes. >> Yeah. No, I I just watching the whole. context, it sounds like she was bitching. that it was too small. And Yashara is a. good reporter. If he's got it a couple.

years ago at $6 million a year, that's. probably about where it is. She's been. doing it for 20 years. So, I think she's. not, you know, in the in the poor house. >> I think she's doing just fine. But I. guess thinks she's entitled to more. I I. would I would beg to differ. I mean, just the ratings of that show do not. support paying her anymore. She can't No. one there can solo. It's an ensemble. cast. No one's running to offer Whoopi. her own talk show, never mind a Sunny. Host who's never been able to single in. her life. >> Um, so, you know, if you're making $6.

million a year, you're making a lot. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I just I I I just. just go back and watch that one if you. haven't seen it from 18 months ago where. she was like, I I am part of the working. class. I understand the struggles of. working people because I also have to. come into work every day to make a. paycheck. I also can't afford to retire. And it it's the most out of touch thing. you've ever heard anybody say. It's. >> so ridiculous. Except perhaps for Megan. Markle's comments about how small her. castle is, and we should feel sorry for. her. And that's what I want to do next.

So, this isn't a Meghan Markle. soundbite, but it is a a a latest. development and a story that we've been. following here on the MK show about. Megan Markle trying to make herself into. the new Martha Stewart. As you know, Moren Callahan and I did a whole parody. of her attempts to do this and her. ridiculous Netflix show With Love Megan. And in it, we made one pot pasta that. she promoted in that series. And we had.

no trouble finding the recipe because we. just went to Martha Stewart's website. and it was right there. It's one of her. most famous recipes, which Megan Markle. very clearly stole and like maybe added. one ingredient to call her own. We put. the two recipes side by side. they were. identical. I mean, it was the same. thing. So, Martha Stewart might not like. that. You know, she's like she's a tough. old bee and and I say that respectfully. And uh she got asked about Megan Markle.

by People magazine and revealed that the. two of them had just been at a dinner. together. Not like oneon-one, but they. were both invited to the same function. where there was dinner. And listen to. this. I had dinner with Megan Markle the other. night. Well, she was at the same table. Uh, so I can't say I she wasn't my. guest. I was a gu we were both guests at. a at a dinner party in in California and. she had just gotten back from the palace. and I think I didn't I didn't talk to. her really more than to say a couple.

words, but but I know she was talking. about it. If you're an actress, it's. hard to then transition to a princess. and then from a princess into a. homemaking guru on a television show. it. doesn't sort of follow. So, go from. there. >> Shots fired, Glenn. >> Totally. [laughter]. You know, my perception of Megan Markle. and my knowledge of her comes almost. exclusively from Moren Sullivan's show. because there is nobody for whom.

>> Callahan. >> Moren Sullivan was a great actress back. in. >> the day. Yeah. Yeah. She won Academy. Award, I think. I I don't know what's. going on with the brain today, but yeah, Morin Moren Callahan because there's. nobody for whom Moren has more contempt. than Megan Markle and it's just like h I. just sit there. It's so cathartic. It. just like seeps into my veins. So, it's. so I I think everybody has come to that. point where just Megan Markle for. whatever. >> subscribe to the Nerve immediately, by. the way, as we go into the weekend. It's. especially a great time in the summer to. listen to me. Listen to The Nerve. Keep. going.

>> Yeah. And it's actually it the reason. it's good to watch is because it. combines reporting with with just the. most assurbic, insightful, well. expressed, and hilarious cultural. criticism of hatred directed all the. people who most deserve it. There's. never been someone she's attacked where. I was like, I don't think she should be. attacking that person. That person seems. okay. >> No, me neither. >> And the other thing that's so great. about Marine is is she's very. intelligent. She has a great vocabulary. like she comes at it from like this. elevated level but with no gloves on.

whatsoever. So it there is something. it's like shoot it into my veins. This. is what I what I think being addicted to. heroin would feel like only very much. healthier. >> Yeah. And she's a real reporter as you. said. So it's not like she's just. ranting and raving with speculation. It's always so well researched too. So. it's actually reliable celebrity. cultural criticism. Yeah. The best show. And it definitely has turned me into a. Megan Barkley. >> before. I just couldn't resist, you. know. It just she's so persuasive. >> But don't you think I think it's. actually kind of cool that Martha.

Stewart, who's now in her 80s, she just. doesn't give an F, Glenn. She's like, I'm going to cut this and I don't. care if you if you don't like it. She's. clearly mocking her. She got back from. the palace and she was talking about it. Oh, back from the palace and how. difficult it is to try to jump from. these different roles right into m. making yourself a homemaking guru and. was telegraphing to us all. It ain't as. easy as it looks and she's failing. Like. that's really what she was saying. I.

that's my Martha Stewart decoder for. you. Yeah, I' I've seen comments from. her similar, not maybe as harsh about. Megan Markle because I don't think she. respects the fact that Megan Markle is a. worthy competitor of everything Martha. Stewart has done. And I love Martha. Stewart because she is just so direct. As you said, she's a very I mean, she. went to prison and she came out and. built this whole second career. Seemed. to do very well in it. Obviously built a. gigantic business, too. Yeah. She is not. somebody to play around with. and and.

that passive aggressive criticism of. Megan Markle there was so enjoyable and. so deserved. [laughter]. >> I wonder she might she might be a. listener to this show or or to the nerve. andor to the nerve. We got to find out. We we need to know more. Glenn, so great. to see you. Always a pleasure, my. friend. >> Always good to be with you, Megan. Talk. to you soon. >> Okay, when we come back, a powerful. legal story that you're going to want to. hear about. This woman, my next guest, is a surrogate.

pregnant with another copy, another. couple's biological baby, and they wanted to abort that [music]. baby, and she has refused. That's next. When it comes to supplements, there are. two things that matter. That it works. and that you can trust it. Rather than. just tell you about Relief Factor, we. often bring you what their real. customers, like me, have to say about. it. One customer, Jim, said he ran out. of Relief Factor twice and that both.

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everything they can to help you. And. maybe you will be sharing your story. with them soon, too. Reliefactor.com. This next story [music] is. extraordinary. McKenna West agreed to. become a surrogate for a couple that. needed her help. But at 20 weeks, the. baby she was carrying was diagnosed with. HLHS, which stands for hypoplastic left. heart syndrome, a serious condition in. which the left side of the heart does. not develop properly. The intended.

parents of this little baby wanted. McKenna to have an abortion, but she. refused, and now she is in a shocking. legal fight with this baby's biological. parents. McKenna joins us now along with. her attorney Lincoln Wilson and Llaya. Rose of Live Action, a group devoted as. Laya is to the cause of [clears throat]. life. Welcome to you all. So great to. have you here. Um Laya, great to see you.

again. So McKenna, this is I have I have. not heard a story like this. I have to. say you did you know this couple when. you agreed to be become a surrogate for. them? Um, no, we met through an agency, surrogacy agency. >> Okay. And as I understand it, you did. sign a document saying that if the. parents wanted at some point to abort. the pregnancy, they could. Is that is.

that right? >> Um, yeah. Going into this, we had talked. about it when we first met. Um, and I. asked them kind of their views on. termination. and. it was a reassuring conversation that. really they wanted a baby. Um, they. weren't exactly sure what decision they. would make if something came up, but. they ultimately just wanted to be. parents. And so I felt confident moving. forward with with them that termination. would not be their first choice.

>> Okay. So the the contract said they had. the right to do it, but you based on. your conversations didn't foresee them. actually doing it. And then the baby was. it a 20we amnneoentesis? Is that what. happened? >> Um there was no amnocentesis. It was an. ultrasound that the cardiac defect was. identified um a couple days after 20. weeks. So then they said they wanted to abort. their child, but you are pro-life. And.

so what did that bring up for you? It brought up a lot of fear. Um, and. I just. didn't know. what to do. I felt very trapped um due. to this contract and felt like I had no. voice. But I knew in my soul, in my heart that. I wanted to protect this little boy. Um,

and. thankfully my brother was. um, it was put on his heart to to call. me and just speak hope and courage into. me. Um, and he and his wife even offered. to adopt this baby if it meant me not. having to go through this late term. abortion. Wow. Right. Because at this point, the. baby's almost five months in uterero and.

this is, you know, you start to feel the. baby moving. It's like this is a very. special time for a mother and. >> I can't imagine what it would be like to. be told. that you must abort the baby, like that. you must. >> Yeah. >> So, you didn't. >> Um, which is extraordinary. And it must. have taken a lot of a lot of prayers and. courage on your part. And now it's. devolved into a legal battle. So let me. bring in uh Lincoln at this point, your. lawyer. So Lincoln, the the was the.

legal battle did did the parents try to. force the abortion? Has it has a court. ruled on that? Because McKenna did not. abort the baby. She is pregnant right. now. >> No, they didn't try to force an abortion. in court. What really happened was that. after McKenna had resisted and they had. put on essentially a pressure campaign. to force her to abort, they even. enlisted her own prior council to serve. her with a demand of of $250,000 with a. process server um in the in the middle.

of the night. And when they were. unsuccessful in doing that, what they. did was they pivoted to California and. they filed a lawsuit in California even. though the contract requires any. litigation in Alaska where McKenna. lives. They said, "We're filing suit in. California and we want an expedited. judgment of parentage." And our basic. understanding is that what they want to. do is if they're declared the parents, and unfortunately the California court. did declare them to be the parents, then. they can make the decision about medical. care and they can decide when this.

baby's born that they won't give him any. care and he'll be dead in a matter of. days without it. Um, McKenna is. unequivocally willing to fight for his. life, though. >> Oh my god, Laya. We see this all the. time in these cases where there's some. sort of medical deformity quote defect. I'm using air quotes around those words. with an unborn child where you know. parents choose to abort their child. But. this this is a much trickier situation.

and McKenna held the line. What do you. make of it? And what do you say to the. the people out there who aren't that. tuned in to choice, life, all that issue. who say, "Well, the poor child wasn't. going to have any life anyway, so the. parents are doing something humane. here.". >> Well, first of all, Megan, thank you for. covering this. McKenna is a hero. Huge. shout out to Lincoln for ADF's support. of this incredibly important case and. this baby. I mean, this is a life at. stake. And the reality is, I mean, the. hospital that does deal with cases like.

this little boy's heart condition can. get up to an 80% success rate with a. life-saving surgery that can give this. boy's boy decades of life of a wonderful. life ahead of him. Medical technology is. amazing. We have ways to care for life, to help life, and medicine should never. be used to destroy life. But because we. have abortion on demand in America. through all nine months, we have this. search and destroy miss. these search. and destroy missions that happen Megan. in health care where they look for a. defect. They look for any problem with. the baby, a genetic condition like uh.

you know tricome 18 down syndrome and. then they say well we should terminate. So we can we we throw away life that is. seen as inconvenient or not perfect. which is eugenics by the way. Eugenics. is trying to create the perfect race the. perfect uh genetic code and this is. what's happening here. It's no he's not. perfect so we should let him die or. otherwise destroy him. So, I'm really. proud of McKenna. I think this case is. so important. And I think that the fact. that surrogacy contracts are basically.

slavery contracts today. Like, I I own. your body now. I can do with it as I. please. And the baby you're pregnant. with is basically my property, too, and. I can kill that baby at will. It's. completely unethical, and we shouldn't. be allowing this any longer. Oh, I mean as for this particular. condition, uh our understanding is there. there have been cases of children who. have lived with this condition. You have. to have at least three operations when. you're very young on your heart. But we. found the case of Ben um who was treated.

at CHOP Children's Hospital of. Philadelphia. This is from February of. 2015. He's about four in this video. Let's watch. We went for the routine. ultrasound [music] and they checked. everything. They said we see a heart. defect. [music] They said his condition. was hypoplastic left heart syndrome. And. it was really a [music] very bleak. picture that they painted for us. A part. of me gave up hope that I would have a. baby to bring home. Benjamin's diagnosis.

is hypoplastic left heart syndrome. [music]. It's essentially a condition where the. heart that normally has two pumping. chambers, one to send blood to the lungs. and one [music] to send blood to the. rest of the body um only has one chamber. which is the right side of the heart. [music] Our main goal is to convert that. pumping chamber so it really serves to. pump blood to the entire body. So. [music] we're talking about a very. complex surgery. you have one chance to. do it right and um after that hopefully.

[music] you have two more operations to. get this child to a healthy and. productive childhood. I'd like to think. that although I don't have my own. children, I have hundreds [music] of. them and Benjamin is one of them. It's amazing [music] to see him as just. a normal kid. You would never guess he. has heart disease. People will tell us, you know, if we. didn't know that he had [music] a a. heart condition, we would never believe. it. >> [laughter]. >> He's he's very active, very very normal.

[music] and um you know he he's very. bright, very has a great sense of humor. and just an amazing kid. >> McKenna, have you talked about cases. like that with the birth parents or. someone representing the birth parents. or not not the whatever the biological. parents? >> Yes. Um, after the diagnosis was made, I. spent that weekend watching videos like. that on YouTube. Um, I personally know. somebody, she'll be 16 in a couple of.

months, um, with the same diagnosis. And. it's not this hopeless diagnosis. whatsoever. And that's part of why I. want to fight so hard for this little. guy is, yes, the the beginning isn't going to be. easy. There's surgeries. Um there's, you. know, it's complicated, but he. absolutely can go on to live a full life. and he deserves that opportunity. >> And have you spoken with them? Like did.

they respond to you directly or did you. hear their justification? >> Everything once the diagnosis was made. started going through the agency. liaison. though I have not spoken to. them directly since um April 17th. Um or. that weekend. Um. but. >> but you just got word. Did you get word. from the surrogacy agency that they. wanted you to abort? >> Yes. there. The liaison is who called um.

to tell me and. their fears are that he's going to have. a horrible quality of life and just be. born into pain and suffering which I do. not agree with at all. >> And now now we're in a fight, Lincoln, about. because she's having the baby now that. that decision has been made. >> Yeah. Um, now we're in a fight over. where the will the baby be born because. this may have direct effects on whether.

he gets care and who will have the. decision-making power once he is born. And then there's the question of who. will raise this baby if he does live um. after birth as a result of medical. interventions or otherwise. We're going. to pick it up there after we take a. quick break. More with McKenna Lincoln. and Llaya Rose right after this. What a. story. We will be right back. And before. we go to break, just want to remind you. it's youtube.com/megan. Kelly. You can hit join. Uh you can get.

exclusive content there. And today we. will be dropping our second installment. [music] or our behind the scenes tour. documentary. Be right back. Every season change seems to come with. the same realization. A closet full of. clothes and absolutely nothing to wear. Right? Haven't you been there? Between. work, travel, family commitments, and. everything else, you might not have the. time or frankly the desire to spend. hours and hours shopping. That is why. I'm so excited to tell you about Daily.

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Look. Head to dailylook.com to take your. style quiz and use the code Megan for. 50% off your first order. Once again, that's dailyook.com for 50% off. and. make sure you use our promo code Megan. so they know we sent you. On May 22nd, 2002, more than a year after Shandra Levy. disappeared, a man named Philip Palmer walks his dog. in Rock Creek Park. Palmer is a.

furniture maker who has collected. antlers and animal bones since he was a. boy. So, he thinks nothing of leaving. the trail and working his way down a. slope. That morning, he sees a scrap of. red fabric, then something pale and. rounded in the leaves about the size of. a silver dollar. He brushes the leaves. away. What he finds is a human skull. Welcome back to the Megan Kelly show. That was a clip from our MK Confidential. series airing this week on Shandra Levy.

of the moment her remains were finally. found. And that was an important moment. in that investigation. A lot of people. don't remember that aspect as the story. disappeared on 911 2001. She went. missing May 1st, 2001. We dive into what. happened next in the investigation. tonight and tomorrow, an arrest and a. conviction. But that was not the end of. the story. This is part of a new series. that we have launched called MK.

Confidential where we take on one case. per week. Um, we started with John Bené. Ramsey, we did Claus Von Bulo, and now. we are in the middle of Shandra Levy. You can join us for this coverage uh. already this week. Each episode is only. about 30 minutes long, so it's easy to. catch up if you're not there yet. And uh. we will see out Shandra Levy over the. next few nights and then start another. case on Monday. You can check it uh on. our Megan Kelly show podcast feeds and. on our YouTube channel every weekn night. this summer. Uh okay, back with me now.

McKenna West, her attorney Lincoln. Wilson, who is with the Great Alliance. Defending Freedom, and Llaya Rose of. Live Action. So before we went to break. Lincoln, we were wondering what the. legal posture of this case is now. because obviously McKenna is having the. baby. So now they're fighting over where. where she delivers the baby and then. what who who controls the care that he. gets when he's born or where the care. will be provided. So there have been.

fights over where the care will be. provided, but now it seems that it it's. likely that it's going to be happening. in Texas where McKenna is now at a. hospital that has a 100% success rate in. providing the surgery. The big fight now. is who's going to control that care and. the other side obtained a judgment in. California that says they are the. parents and that they get to make those. decisions and that judgment will become. effective on the child's birth. Um, we. are fighting to overturn that judgment. and then also to say that while the.

court is working out those questions. really the surgery needs to happen and. McKenna needs to be making these. decisions because if the the baby dies. and then she wins on an appeal, you. know, you can't put the the toothpaste. back in the tube. You can't ring unring. the bell at that point. Um, it's it's. really like the biggest case of. irreparable harm that you could ever. see. >> Yeah. But now, does that mean undoing. that California judgment or what how are. you going to get a ruling that allows. McKenna to make those decisions in the. way you just outlined?

>> That's part of it. Um part of it is. undoing the judgment and we have appeals. that are working our way through the. California courts and up to the US. Supreme Court that raised some important. questions about due process. for one, the attempt to to bring McKenna into. California court on two days notice and. finding that she actually consented to. jurisdiction and also the fact that the. California courts are deciding what they. admit are life and death questions for. this child and this child has no. representation in the proceedings. We. think that's a due process problem.

>> That's that's what I was going to ask. you next. Does he have any rights? Does. this baby boy have any rights at all? >> I I should hope so. Um, and California. law actually says that a a child, an. unborn child is a person under. California law if that child is going to. be born. We think the answer is the same. under the 14th Amendment to the United. States Constitution. And we're going to. be taking that issue up to the US. Supreme Court if we have to. But right. now, we're in the California courts. And. in the meantime, we're hoping that we. can get relief that ensures that he gets.

the care that he needs when he's born so. that he stays alive. um and that there's. not an opportunity to leave him to die. um just minutes after he comes into the. world. >> Has anyone indicated to your side, you, McKenna, um or anybody else on your. side, Lincoln or anybody else, that what. they intend to do with the baby's. healthcare once he's born? >> They've been very koi about it. They've. actually told us that we're not entitled. to know what their decision-m is, but.

there's enough clues. For one, they. immediately sought an abortion. They. aggressively sought an abortion. Um, for. another, they have kept asking questions. about paliotative care, which is. basically no care, just let the child. die, even though there's a 100% success. rate in giving this surgery. And last, they're still suing McKenna in Alaska, demanding that she be held liable for. hundreds of thousands of dollars in. damages because she refused to get an. abortion. They're saying because she. breached their contractual requirement.

to get an abortion, she should have to. pay them. We don't think that this shows. a commitment to actually letting this. child live. >> And that now they're going to be saddled. with this defective child. Is that. basically the argument? >> Yeah. I think there's a tendency in this. situation to treat children as a. product. Um, you know, you paid to get. something, it was defective, it wasn't. what you wanted, so send it back. Give. me a new one. Um, we think that's. repugnant. We think it's offensive to um. California law. We think it's offensive.

to to federal law and we don't want to. see it stand. >> Is there an issue about healthcare. insurance? Like if there if the baby's. born in Texas with McKenna Lincoln and. the parents say, "Well, we don't have we. don't have the insurance to cover all. these surgeries." Is that is that an. argument or no? Because would the state. provide those surgeries? >> I I don't think there's any question. that there are the resources out there. to get this child the care that he. needs. Um, I can speak from my own. personal experience. Our child was born.

uh with a cardiac condition and ended up. in the NICU for three months and we had. to get surgery and we got unbelievable. care and unbelievable resources to. support that and it was absolutely worth. it and that's why it's very personal for. me to be engaged in this fight um going. after the same thing here and I know. there's abundant resources that Laya and. her team have provided and would provide. to save this child's life. >> Well, that's the thing, Laya. There's. there's literally not someone in the. country who fights more for life than. you. So, you must know people or have.

donors who would help McKenna with these. surgeries or help her get this baby. through those first challenging Well, it. looks like it could be a couple of. years, but as we saw with Ben's story, it really is survivable. >> Yes. Yes. And there are thousands of. pro-life advocates who want to help. McKenna. There are thousands more who. want to even adopt. I mean, the waiting. lists right now to adopt are long, including families that are willing to. adopt children, newborns that have. special needs or special uh care is.

needed for them. And as McKenna even. said, her brother has stepped up. heroically to say, "I want to even adopt. and help this baby." So, the problem is. not that people don't want to help. There are tons of people in line to help. right now. The problem is that there is. a couple who believe that this baby is. their property and that they can kill. this baby or order this baby to be left. to die without care because this baby in. their eyes is defected and unwanted to. them and they don't want another family. to care for this baby and provide care. for and help this baby live. That's the.

issue and that violates this baby's. fundamental human rights which is why. I'm so grateful for the hard work of. Lincoln and the team at ADF because this. case deserves to go to the Supreme Court. and to be won decisively in favor of. this baby's right to life and McKenna. >> So So what would be the ideal ruling. then Lincoln? Like what your what's your. plan? What what court are you going to. go into and what are you going to ask. for specifically? Because the the baby's. due soon, right? >> Yeah, we're fighting in three different. courts right now. Um, there's the.

California proceeding that the other. side filed. There's an Alaska case that. McKenna filed. And we've just learned. that the other side has now filed a case. in Texas again in violation of the. contract um, seeking to get a decision. for them. >> Your due date is September 2nd, >> McKenna, right? So that's I mean that's. coming up. It is. >> And what's your ideal I'll ask you to. phrase it not legally, but what is your. ideal ruling that you would get? >> Want this little boy to be able to get. surgery. um cuz that's what he needs to.

have a chance. >> So you want him to get the care that he. needs. >> And if you if you had your way, would. you then have your brother adopt this. baby? >> Um really just any loving household. loving parents. Um whether that were me, my brother and my sister-in-law, or. another family that, you know, I'm not. aware of right now. I just want him to. have parents fighting in his corner. Have you found out like are the parents.

at all. um entertaining that idea that somebody. you know clearly they didn't want this. baby when they found out about the heart. defect. So this is a solution that's. it's not the one they wanted but they. they don't have to have anything to do. with this baby but they're not. interested in that. >> Not from what I understand at all which. is really unfortunate. >> This is so this is just so fraught. I'm. sure this is keeping you awake day and. night. Are you How are you feeling, McKenna? Are you This is must have been.

very stressful for you. >> Um yeah, physically I feel I feel, you. know, pretty good, but it is. it is stressful, especially as I am in. my final month now of pregnancy and. there's still so much happening and. developing. Um, but I just I genuinely. believe that. God has orchestrated this and um this. little guy is going to get what he needs. and what he deserves, which is a chance.

at life. We've done too much. We've come. too far for another outcome. So, I just. that's really what I'm praying for. Laya, the um I was just online before we. got started today and I was on Instagram. and I saw my old friend and colleague. from Fox News, Brett Bear, with the. following post. Let's watch it. >> Hey everybody. Uh thanks for the. birthday wishes. I appreciate it. Big 56.

today. Uh and I am off. I am um taking. my son to Ireland to play in a. father-son golf tournament. It's kind of. the last harrah before uh he heads to. college uh in a few weeks. >> Happy birthday to Brett Bear, by the. way. But the reason I play that, as you. might know, is Paul Bear, who was born. in June of 2007, and I was very close to. Brett at the time, had multiple heart.

defects. He has a condition um that's. that's the the the short form is um hold. on a second. Let me give you the actual. name of it. It's called dansransposition. of the great arteries or dtga in which. the heart's two main arteries are. reversed which causes oxygen poor blood. to circulate through the body instead of. being sent to the lungs for oxygen. Paul. was also born so so he had that that was. his primary defect but he had a total of. five complex congenital heart defects.

He was also born with two holes in his. heart an interrupted aortic arch and an. abdominal coroner coral uh artery. So. Paul had multiple serious very serious. complex heart defects. And this this. heart problem uh can be is usually fatal. in the first few days, weeks or months. of life because of that oxygen poor. blood that circulates throughout the. body. Babies do require emergency.

emergency medical treatment soon after. birth. And I remember when Paul was. born, uh, Brett sent out an email and that the. subject was not what we expected. >> And we were all stunned and scared and. we all thought that Brett and Amy might. lose their baby. And they didn't lose. their baby. That that baby is the son. that Paul. getting emotional. is that that baby is. the son that Brett and Amy are.

delivering off to college um before next. month. So, and he hasn't had it easy. He's had at least 12 surgeries. I think. more than 12 surgeries. He had an. emergency surgery not long ago that was. very scary. that family not for one second would. regret Paul being born into this world. and all the moments they have had with. Paul through thick and thin through the. difficult surgeries and the scary times. and the great times on the golf course.

and otherwise. I just think Laya too. many people feel overwhelmed by these. scary diagnosis. and we also have a media that refuses to. highlight stories like that of little. Ben and Paul Bear. You're so right, Megan. I mean, life is worth fighting. for and a child's life is worth fighting. for the most. This is a this is a. innocent, defenseless little one that's. entrusted to adults. And what's the. responsibility of adults? You know, how.

can we build a civilization that's. strong and healthy? You got to care. about kids and you've got to put their. needs first. And sometimes that requires. sacrifice, but there's often a way. And. that's the power of medical technology. and coming alongside families. And it's. amazing what we've been able to. accomplish with new medical. technologies. But regardless of the. ability of medical technologies, a. life's always worth fighting for. You. know, one way or another, you never. leave someone to just die, especially a. baby. You never go and kill a child in. utero. And I will say, Megan, the only.

reason we're in this predicament that. McKenna is in this extremely unjust and. abusive situation. I mean, it's legal. abuse that they're threatening with her. with, I think it's physical abuse to try. to demand her to have a late term. abortion. The reason this is happening. is because abortion on demand is legal. still in our country. I mean, there's. some states that protect life, but we. have the majority of states now that. permit abortion. And what is abortion? It's the direct and intentional killing. of an innocent human life. And under no. circumstance is it acceptable to kill an.

innocent human life. But that's what. many laws in our states permit. And that. is the crux of the problem here. And. that's why McKenna is in this. predicament. That's why this little. boy's life is at risk. So, we need to. change our legal system. We need to. shift our culture here. And I'm really. proud of McKenna and the work of ADF and. the work of live action because that's. what we're working here to do together. >> I mean, there's no there's no question. that abortion is the killing of a life. And if like you can debate, I always say. this, you know, you can say that you are.

pro-choice and you're in favor of the. mother making that decision and all that. stuff. You we cannot have the debate. unless you admit that. Like, you have to. admit that. That's obviously a life. Then you then you can make your argument. about I I should be allowed to end it. I'm the mother. I I created we can have. that debate. We've been having that. debate for a long long time. But there's. just no debate that that's a life. There's just there isn't that is a life. that you are ending if you have an. abortion. Um so McKenna, what what. happens now? What if what if you don't.

get the legal relief that you're looking. for? What if you have to what if you get. a judgment saying you have to have this. baby in California? Is that a. possibility that you'd have to that you. might not be able to have the baby at. the Texas facility with all the. life-saving measures that are available. there? >> Not at this point. Um traveling after 36. weeks is really never recommended by. OBGYNS. Um. >> Okay. >> And so. >> good. So you you're staying in Texas. >> I'm here in Texas. Yeah.

And what if the a ruling comes down that. what happens to this boy when he's born. is up entirely to these parents and he. is born and he is not on your chest. He's not bonding with you. He's not. having the skin-to-skin. Instead, he's. being given paliotative care as he dies. I pray that if they um are the ones who.

make the decision once he's born that. simply seeing him and realizing just how. real this baby boy is. You know, I've. been feeling him for months now. He's. very, very real to me. Um I just pray. that their hearts would soften. they're. the ones making that decision when they. see this little guy and um that they. want to fight as hard as as I am and. other people would absolutely be willing. to fight for him.

>> Yes. I I'm I'm praying for those parents. right right now tonight. I think we. should all pray for those parents to see. to see it this way, to see him born, to. feel the connection, and to understand. that getting him the help he needs is. the right thing to do. And that there. will be a ton of people who will help. I'm sure Elila Rose, you would help. them, too, if they said that they that. they that they want to be the ones to. shepherd him through these surgeries and. so on, and this can still have a happy. ending. Um, praying God that it happens.

McKenna, please keep us updated. Please. stay well and take care of yourself. Laya, thanks for the story and for all. the great work you do. >> Thank you so much, Megan. >> Thank you, Megan. >> Wow. Wow. That's like that's heavy. That is a heavy story. These, you know, the the parents, it's. like you clearly they've they. desperately wanted a child. You don't go. to a surrogate unless you desperately. want a child.

And I understand there are a lot of. families. I don't know what their. financial situation is, but there are a. lot of families who who don't have the. financial means to take on a massive. health care battle. That's a whole other. problem in this country that deserves. discussion. But in this particular case, it sounds like they will be helped and. will be provided with the resources to. get this little boy through. Um, so. maybe that will soften them on this. I. don't know. They're they're anonymous. I. don't know their names. I don't know. really more than I've told you about. their end of the story. They have a.

contract that's on their side. and they. wish to enforce it. I'm sure they're. angry that it won't be enforced, but. they brought another person into this. decision and um there's a written. contract and then there's your contract. with God. Um and there are the rights of. this child whether a court is willing to. recognize them or not. This is a viable. baby at this point. should tell you we. got a statement from the lawyer for the. parents uh whose name is Victoria. Ferrara and she writes as follows. The.

team at Worldwide Surrogacy Specialists. LLC is saddened by the turn to. litigation in this matter. The team. supports and has always supported the. gestational carrier's right to make. medical decisions for herself and for. her bodily autonomy. The team also. supports the right of the intended. parents to legal parentage of the child. after his birth. The owner of Worldwide. Surrogacy, Attorney Ferrara, submits. that this matter should have been. referred to mediation where all parties.

would have been urged to consider the. best interests of the child who will. face severe hardship upon his birth and. to reach a settlement so that upon his. birth the child would be surrounded by. love, not lawyers and litigation. That's where it stands for now. I'd love. to know your thoughts on it. Please. email me. It's Megan Kelly.com. Thank. you all so much for listening [music]. and for watching and we will see you. next episode.