Colbert's Hissy Fit Farewell Tour, Xi's Ominous Comment, & Murdaugh's New Trial, w/ Glenn Greenwald

Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome. to the Megan Kelly show and happy. Friday. President Trump is on his way. back from his big summit in China and. says the trip was a major success, but. his sitdown on Fox last night delivered. some eyebrow raising comments. Plus, the. latest on the Alec Murdoch case as a. couple of jurors speak out. And Steven. Colbear's bizarre goodbye to late night. is finally almost over. Praise Jesus. My. god, it's gone on forever. But not. before he throws a hissy fit temper.

tantrum with the former host of the CBS. program. He and Letterman got together. to to just express how very very angry. they are about poor Steven Colbear's. show getting cancelled. Cry me a river. Would you take it like a man? Honestly, where are your testicles? This is so. humiliating. Like we know you got. cancelled. Be a man. Jeez Louise. This. is like pathetic. When I got canned from.

NBC, everybody was calling me a racist. They were humiliating me everywhere. Yes, I got a little little tearary the. day after because it was overwhelming. And that was it. That was it. I didn't. blubber and blubber on. I didn't ask. everybody feel so sorry for me on the. day for like days on end. Nor would I. have had they given me the opportunity. to stay on the air. Like, take it like a. man. Stop it. Stop this. Put your big. boy pants on and exit with grace. You're. humiliating yourself. Truly, you're.

humiliating mankind. I don't want my. sons to see this behavior. I like this. is so embarrassing. You didn't get. cancer. You got cancelled. It happens. Grow up. All right. We're going to bring. in our very first guest, very first. guest ever here on the MK show. That's. the podfather of our show, Glenn. Greenwald. I speak of. He's a Pulitzer. Prizewinning journalist and host of. System Update on Substack. Don't miss a moment. Subscribe to this. show on YouTube and follow me on Insta,

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this big a deal out of it. The long. goodbye. Johnny Carson had less of a a. goodbye when he announced his retirement. from the Tonight Show. And he actually. was beloved. Let me show you the latest. that he's done. Colbear with David. Letterman. They're very, very angry. Very angry that he's got to go. Watch. >> You guys will verify that this is. actually CBS property, right? >> 100%. Yes. >> Okay. Anytime you're ready, Stephen. It's all fun until somebody puts out an. eye. >> Y.

>> That'll do. >> Down we go. [cheering] Get ready. Oh my. god. >> Yes. OH. OH. OH MY GOD. YES. MY DESK CHAIR. >> All right. Well, say goodbye, my friend. >> The Late Show, 1993 to 2026. So, how. many years is that? >> No way of knowing.

>> All yours, my friend. >> Pleasure is all mine. I enjoy destroying. stuff. It's great, great fun. Thank you. for everything you've done for our. country. >> Uh feeling is mutual. Dave, thank you. Anything you'd like to say to the. audience before we go? >> Well, not necessarily to the audience, but to the folks at CBS. In the words of. the great Ed Muro, good night and good. luck, mother. Yeah, they're angry, Glenn,

because they had the. nerve to cancel his failing show. What. do you make of it? >> They're hard to watch, you know. Um, I I. grew up with Johnny Carson. Uh, and I. never really understood, you know, when. you're a teenager or whatever, the. appeal of Johnny Carson, but I actually. find myself going back and watching. Johnny Carson clips because it's just. kind of a. >> representative of that era, the way he. did interviews, the kind of humor, you. know, was he was actually kind of a a. subtle humorist. So maybe as a kid, you.

don't really understand why he's funny. He's older. He he appeals to your. parents. But the reason was was because. it was actual genuine humor and he never. took himself too seriously. Like he. thought of himself as a comedian which. is an important role in society which is. to make people laugh to sometimes. there's kind of a politicized aspect to. it and that you poke at taboss and you. delve into sensitive subjects in a way. that's unexpected. That's a big part of. humor. But these guys have all like so. many of our institutions, like so many.

in the age of Trump have convinced. themselves that they have some. transcendent role. No, they're not just. comedians. They, you know, as David. Letman said, "Thank you for what you've. done for our country." He's not, he. doesn't just mean holding hands of. people at night. He means the political. war that you've waged. And they see. themselves as martyrs, as as people who. are battling evil, by which they mean. Donald Trump. and they've completely. turned themselves into basically like a. celebrity guest version of whatever is.

on MSNBC. It really aligns perfectly and. they they've broken the whole notion of. of late night TV which is the place. where people used to be able to gather. no matter what your religion or race or. uh politics were. It was just kind of a. centralized cultural uh font that that. people really really drank at because. there was no politics to it. So that's. the first thing. And the other thing is. they do you notice like they all like. this whole thing with CBS. I have my. huge critiques about CBS. I do think. part of why they fired Co Bear is.

because uh they didn't want like very. liberal programming out because they. have a lot to do with with the Trump. administration that they need done. But. reality is it was a money making money. losing show and if you're just looking. at from a business perspective you would. you would cut it anyway. But they are. trying to now depict themselves as these. like hardcore rebels and dissident. radicals who are saying f you to the. man. These are people who have made. extreme fortunes working for large. corporations their entire lives and now.

at the very end with their bank accounts. all stuffed with billion millions and. millions of dollars from these. corporations they're now going to fain. like they're the common man giving the. middle finger to the corporation. It's. all such a fraud, like a self-important. just bloiating fraud. And it really. sickens me. >> It totally you know the the thing that's. crazy they were losing $40 million a. year. I mean $40 million. >> What show would be kept on the air. because it when it was losing $40.

million a year, that would be. professional malpractice to leave that. show on the air. But the irony of having. Letterman pretend that this wasn't. coming. When when Letterman was when he. launched his show in 1993, we pulled the. numbers, Glenn, he averaged 7.8 million. total viewers and 4.4 million in the key. 18 to 49y old demo. All right, 4.4. million in the demo. By the time he.

handed it off to Colbear, those numbers. were down to 2.8 million. and 530,000. The late night format collapsed while. David Letterman was at the helm and he. knew he was handing what was effectively. a loser to the next guy. So Cole Bear. steps in there with a program that is a. shadow of its former self. The people. had just gotten over it and Cole. Letterman wasn't what he'd been and. certainly Co Bear wasn't the answer. And.

he never got things going. In the. beginning of the Trump administration, he raised the numbers a little. He got. it up 1 million to 3.8 million. Okay? And it was 520,000 in the demo. So, he. never got the demo up. But by the time. Trump left office, he was down to 2.6. million total and 226,000 in the demo. Only now has he ticked up a little bit. from that as he does his little. farewell, you know, tour and people are. people on the left are feeling nostalgic. for it. But the the format died. It died.

as Letterman was handing it over. Colob. Bear was never able to revive it for. more than an instant during Trump 1.0. when because that's because of Trump. being so interesting. And now they want. to pretend that they had a smash success. on their hands whereas they were getting. beaten by Greg Gutfeld by the end and. they don't who makes a fraction I'm sure. of what Steven Cobear is making. >> Right. I mean, and I, you know, I do. think it is an unfortunate development.

I'm a gigantic fan of of the internet. and the advent of independent media. I. really am the byproduct of it. My my. work has been as a result of it. Probably not possible without it. So, and to this day, I continue to be a. massive fan of all the good that it's. done. But one of the things that I do. think a country needs is a kind of. gathering place where everybody goes and. kind of [snorts] feels part of the same. part of your day that is shared with. everybody else as kind of a ritual. It's. kind of like a cultural reinforcement of.

what it means to be an American or or. whatever country that you're in. And we. have lost that. Not only though because. the internet because if the internet. offered a zillion other choices, but. late night TV continued to be. compelling, you would still have people. watching late night TV. The problem is. is that the people who got put in there. and again this very much is a byproduct. of Trump where Trump took over. everything. And I've seen this happen to. so many institutions. I mean, I used to. work all the time with the ACLU as a.

civil libertarian. I was always a big. admire of the ACLU growing up. I revered. the ACLU what it did in Skoi and. overnight the ACLU turned into nothing. but a liberal wing of the Democratic. party because everything was just. anti-Trump and they made tons of money. off of it. They got rewarded for it. They grew massively in ways the ACLU. ever imagined. But every one of these. groups, organizations, even. entertainment outlets became politicized. because they thought that their mission. was to do everything possible to stop. Donald Trump. And they got good feedback.

from it. As you said, Co Bear's ratings. at first rose because it was the era of. Trump and he positioned himself as. against Trump. So, this kind of got was. like a short-term sugar high, but the. price was long-term destruction of these. institutions. They're gutting them out. of their purpose. >> I'm so humiliated, Glenn. I'm I'm. humiliated for him that he stayed on the. air all this time. He made the whole. year about the fact that he was fired. and was leaving. Um,

now on his last night, Jimmy Kimmel has. announced he won't program. He's not. going to do a fresh program. She's going. to seed the airwaves to poor Steven so. he can get as many eyeballs as possible. Really stick it to CBS. Just show him. what a hit they actually were letting. go. This is ridiculous. I mean, truly, it is bigger than Johnny Carson got. And. I was there when Johnny Carson stepped. out. I remember what happened. Like, this is absurd. Why are they pretending. that this is some sort of.

temple? That is how this feels. This. it's a damn late night show that had. complete irrelevance except for a very. small sliver of committed far-lefts. >> Yeah. I mean, well, I would say like. Democratic Partisans basically, which. isn't quite the same thing, but. basically, you know, it's the idea. It. became a politics show. It was basically. just like a late night MSNBC show. That's really what it was. And it wasn't. anything else. You would never go to see.

Stephen Cobear if you weren't sharing. his anti-Trump politics. And this was. this this is why the show failed because. you already have tons of anti-Trump. everything. You know, it's like if you. go back to 2013 and 2014 like in the. independent digital media space, you had. all these different outlets, you know, like Vice and Vulture and the Huffington. Post and Buzzfeed. They're all gone. They're all gone. They were growing. massively. Just something interesting. They're all either gon or or just total,

you know, shells of themselves like a. three people keeping a front page up. And the reason is is because all they. were offering was the same anti-Trump. agrop that the New York Times decided it. was going to latch itself onto. And if. you have the New York Times doing it, you don't need alternative media doing. it because the New York Times is already. doing it. There's nothing alternative. about it. And that happened to every one. of these outlets. The problem is is that. Steven Gopair obviously lives in a very. tiny enclave of Los Angeles and New York. elites. All of whom are liberal, all of. whom tell him, "Oh, what you're doing is.

so important. It's so important." This. is what you get told if you're an elite. culture, and you do anything against. Trump. You got that like one time you. asked a hard question or multiple times. you asked hard questions during that. debate, the big one, and you suddenly. became beloved in in the culture that. previously hated you. They're. monoomaniacal about Trump. So if you're. opposing Trump, you become this person. in their minds that get constantly told, "Oh, what you're doing is so important.". And then they start believing their own. PR. And even though by the end that show. is worthless, it's just reinforcing very.

banal liberal political thought against. Trump, they've convinced themselves that. what they're doing. But I just have to. say too, Megan, like again, when David. Letterman was on the air, when Steven. Cobar was on the air all this time, they. were happy to collect CB CBS's news, the. the paycheck from CBS News. Only when. David Letterman left, and then only when. Steven Cobar was on his way out, did. they suddenly find their voice like, "No, we're anti-corporate guys. We're. going to really give it to the man.". These are the men. These are the people. who have who whose bank accounts are. extremely rich for serving corporate.

power. They don't really know what else. to do. >> Yeah. I mean, it it is crazy because I I. think back when I was at at NBC, the number one thing I was critical. about them on leaving NBC was how they. handled the Harvey Weinstein reporting. that was being done by Ronan Pharaoh and. how they clearly buried it. And I while. on the air at NBC, while employed by. them, went out on the air and called my. boss Andy Lack a liar. He had issued.

this ridiculous statement about how they. didn't have two sources and I knew they. did have two sources and I had seen the. script that showed Ronin had two sources. and NBC spiked it and I ripped on him on. the air that everyone around me freaked. out. Glenn, it's not that I'm some hero. I'm just saying it's possible to do it. Like if you actually do have a material. disagreement with your employer, if. they're doing something deeply wrong, you can go out on the air and say what's. real. you have a platform. Steven Cobar.

does to this moment, right? It's he's. not exposing anything about CBS. He's. only talking about himself. Um, some of. us did it and some of us, you know, well, let's just say it doesn't always. wind up great for those people. That's. fine. You leave with your integrity and. you know you've done the right thing. He. just wants us to feel sorry for him. because just like Kimmel who had his. complete meltdown when he was off the. air for five days. He can't stand the. thought of life not in front of the Cle. lights. He can't stand it. They need it,

Glenn. It's their lifeblood. >> Well, this not, you know, to continue. the comparison with Johnny Carson, who I. do think has been retrospectively kind. of revived and this sort of respect for. him in contrast to what came after him. Johnny Carson left when he was still, you know, I wouldn't say at his prime. necessarily, but still perfectly capable. of clinging to that program. He was in, you know, of good health. He had sound. mind. He was still funny. He left. voluntarily. The network did not want. him to leave. And he just kind of.

gracefully said, "You know what? I've. done this for long enough. I want to go. kind of live the last stage of my life. in peace in in in privacy." And he like. exited the stage very gracefully. Didn't. make himself the big center of. attention. They did a couple of shows. like the last week as you would expect. kind of commemorating it. These guys, it's not just that they're so desperate. for attention, although they are. It's. also that they don't want to be what. they are. They they're not they don't. want to be comedians. They're not. satisfied with that. They think they're. too important for that. And they've.

converted themselves into political. martyrs or, you know, people who are so. courageous that they are standing up to. the corpses. I'm not even saying you. have to go on air and condemn your. bosses. But if you're working inside a. corporation making a lot of money and. you do that for a long time, either. attack your corporate bosses while. you're there or if you leave, don't. suddenly at the last second when they. fire you pretend that you're some kind. of like anti-corporate radical willing. to stand up to your bosses. This whole. thing is infused with a kind of elevated.

cause that they fabricated and that. exists. In what world is Stephen is. Steven Colbear a martyr of anything? Of. anything? >> No. No. >> And they all get back to my time at Fox. News. I was there for 14 years. I left. willingly. They made me a very nice. offer to stay, but I had had enough and. I wanted to do something else and raise. my own kids. So, I'm leaving for NBC. The night I announced I was leaving, I. just said goodbye. I said, you know, thank you to everybody and I said. goodbye on the air and that was it. I. didn't make a big deal out of it.

O'Reilly, he was the number one. He was. the face of Fox News, by the way. My. show was number one in the key demo when. I left and had been for years. Um, O'Reilly had the number one show in all. of cable with the overall numbers for. many, many years. He was the face of Fox. News. After I left, they elevated him. even more. He got paid even more. And he. got fired over this whole me too. situation. Did he make a big deal out? He didn't. He left. It was it. That was. it. It was like not some big deal. It it. is not customary to martyr yourself on. the way out if you've been fired or to.

spend months celebrating yourself if you. are leaving of your own valition. This. is weird. He's he this is a brand new. format in which he's he really thinks. he's some sort of Jesus figure on the. cross like given what the the horrible. things CBS is doing to him which is. simply his show has been cancelled after. years of letting it bleed out in the red. and paying him tens of millions of. dollars making him a household name.

making him a multi multi-millionaire. funding all of his homes and cars and. kids educations and he actually wants. people to feel sorry for him. >> I know. >> Now, on his last week, oh, by the way, um not only will Jimmy Kimmel not be. doing live programming the night he goes. off uh for the last time, uh Jimmy. Fallon has also said he'll be doing just. taped programming. He's going to run a. rerun out of respect. >> My god, such sacrifices. Such the Look. at the sacrifices that these people are.

willing to make for their values. It's. so impressive. So courageous. >> Didn't you throw up in your mouth? >> Yeah. Um, you know, look, I do think, and this is, you know, have been a an. issue of mine for a long time, like you. don't want the government influencing. what's on television or being able to. use its regulatory power to get what it. wants. I think these are legitimate. questions surrounding not just Trump. administration, but administrations that. have come before it. This is something. for you allow people to talk about. You. allow questions to be raised, you.

examine it, whatever. But this is not. what's being done. What's being done is. that Steven Colbear himself has been. turned into some kind of as you said. Jesus figure. I think there was some. recent award show they gave him like an. award and they all like stood up for him. this like very prolonged sustained. Hollywood applause. Not because he's. some great comedian because he's not. I. mean, I do think he was innovative and. interesting. You know, 25 years ago when. he was on with John Stewart and was. doing, you know, they were doing some. some actually innovative things, but his.

show is is is is barely funny. It's not. really funny. And even with celebrities, it's like a very asskissing show. To say. nothing of the politics, it was because. they need to. This is why Hollywood. often like got those award shows so. often. It smuggles in political speeches. because they they don't want to feel. like they're only actors. They don't. want to feel like they're only. comedians. They want to feel like. they're more important figures in the. history of the world than just that. And. they assume this this inflated sense of.

themselves. And that's what so much of. this is about. >> Yes. Okay. So, that's the perfect setup. for the sound bite I'm about to play. Um, this is from this past week. For. some reason, first I saw Julia Louie. Disco on Coar show and tried to do this. VEP reenactment. It was so lame. It was. so not funny. I, as the kids would say, it was cringe. It was very cringey. I. felt uncomfortable watching the whole.

thing. But he's doing something where. he's kissing everyone, like actually. kissing male and female. It's a little. weird. I'm going to show you some of it. S 23. >> cuz I think you've made out with guests. on camera. >> No, I think you just wanted to make out. with me. [laughter]. >> This is all the late night. Please. [cheering] give me harm is there. >> None. What could possibly go wrong? [laughter]. [cheering].

Let's get some jewelry on the lips. People. [cheering]. [music]. tapping his lips. [cheering]. I'm sorry. This is gross. Like, like, who who kisses Julia Louie Drifus on the. mouth? Who? Like, by the way, no one. knows where any of those mouths have. been. This is weird. I like I don't kiss. my own mother on the mouth. My mom and I. kiss on the cheek. That's it. Like, this. is very strange behavior, Glenn. I I.

mean, I totally I didn't see I didn't. see that. I saw the images circulating. and I was actually I didn't, you know, I. just saw them kind of crossing my feed. and I was even wondering like, are those. real? Are those distorted? You never. know. You have to look into it and find. out. I just didn't. But I know I just. saw the video and it is. >> and what it's Yeah. Thank you so much. for doing that work for me. I was just. about to go do it because I'm so. interested. No, but uh the what it reeks. to me is of is of desperation, you know, like Julia Louise Drifus is funny. Like. she's a funny actress. She's had great.

success. I loved VEP. I thought uh. Seinfeld at the time was great. Whatever. Um but that's because she was. being a comedian. she's being like just. a comic actress now. Like if when. they're trying to become political. figures, when they're trying to what in. their mind is like elevate whatever they. do, but when reality they're just kind. of dragging it into the gutter because. it's just so uninteresting the when they. be they're not they're not interesting. political thinkers. That isn't why. they're successful. Nobody has ever. tuned in to any of this to watch hear.

their political views unless you know. you have a like-minded political. audience in which case you're going to. reduce your audience as Stephen Cobar. has done. And it just this is all but so. without being able to be funny without. really having anything relevant. culturally to contribute. It's oh let's. just start kissing on the lips because. that'll at least get people talking. about the show and I guess it works. It. was as I said circulating in my feed. I. wouldn't usually see the Col Bear show. in in there. >> and I don't know it's just it's. >> you and I could both drop trow right now.

and do a big moon in front of the camera. and we get lots of attention but like. most like most people who are doing a. show especially a political show like. Steven Colbear is doing would like to. maintain some level of dignity on camera. in front of their audiences while doing. the show that's not what he's like why. is he kissing Jimmy Fallon and and the. participation of all the other late. night hosts like he's their god like the. emasculin what's the what emasculation. that they're engaging in for what again.

so that you can I mean it's not like. Steven Colbear invented the genre right. it's like when Barbara Walters retired. that that was big I mean that was big. she was a pioneer. >> it was like an institution an. institution and like something. pioneering as you said exactly. >> he doesn't have any of that what are. they. No, but he's being distorted into some. kind of victim of Trump administration. authoritarianism. This is the this is.

the substax for everything that we live. in Trump's America. And in Trump's. America, if you criticize Donald Trump, you go to a goolog or you're put into. prison or you're shot by mass ICE agents. on the street or you [laughter] have. your corporate bosses fire you in order. to please the Trump administration. And. I'm not even saying again, I'm not. saying there aren't actual questions. there that that people like you and I. and others who, you know, engage in. politics. People talk about politics, but talking about it as politics would.

raise and debate and discuss. It's worth. examination. But that's not what this is. about. This is about creating this kind. of storyline where they're heroic. They're these central figures who have. done such important things. I don't know. what but important things and at the end. they end up getting murdered like they. are acting like they were put on the. cross and this persecution narrative. does not work for extremely rich. celebrities who have always gotten along.

very well with corporate bosses until. their show started losing money and I do. think it's such this is such an. interesting thing about the economics. >> you know the reason why is because. technology now is such that you and I. can have can be talking to to each. other. We have microphones in front of. each other, cameras in front of each. other, small staffs. You know, you can. have small staffs in a studio and still. produce like a a professional enough. show. But at networks, they have. hundreds of people employed, but not. almost more than than are people under.

50 watching Steven Coar. Like the. numbers are pretty close. And the. economics staffers, Glenn, >> 200 staffers. Exactly. And he's not. producing 200 times better of a product. than anybody. than anybody. I'd ra. there's a zillion people I would rather. watch just sit in front of a camera with. a cheap microphone and talk than watch. Steven Cobear. And that is what the. internet has has permitted is it really. has rooted out the frauds like the. people who are only successful because. they had a captive audience. No one's. captive anymore to CBS except still like.

old people who watch because it's it's. their viewing habits. But other than. that, young people, they're not going to. watch CBS out of habit or just because. they have to. They're gonna only watch. if there's something compelling on and. there's not. >> It's No, it's so crazy. I like I did not. make as much as Steven Colbear is making. when I was in the prime time at Fox, but. my show made a hund00 million in ads a. year. That okay, $100 million in ads a.

year. And that's not including these. subscription fees that Fox would get. because people liked the lineup. They. liked what was in the prime time. They. liked up and down the the dial. But that. makes sense. That's why that show. worked. And we did it on a shoestring. budget. I only had 12 main producers, which is small for cable. Um, you have. to produce six segments a night. I mean, it's a lot. It's a it's a labor. intensive uh product. And it still is. over there, but Fox always did it on the. lean. This guy's got one hour of like a.

couple of guests. I don't know, maybe. three at most. He does a standup. monologue. So, I guess he needs a couple. of writers since he's clearly not. writing his own stuff anymore. I don't. even know how you get to 200 staffers. And how much was his show making, Steve? It was It took in It took in 60, but and. lost and lost 40. Well, like I don't. know that those economics.

are not sustainable. So, it took in 60. and it cost a hundred to make. It cost. $und00 million to make and it took in. 60. you know, like just so people. understand the economics, right? So then. there's my show at Fox. I don't know. what it cost, but it was some fraction. of that, teeny tiny fraction of that and. we made a hundred billion. Like that's. something that's available to anybody. who wants to be in the news or. entertainment business. And you could. easily replace Steven Colbear with an. upand cominging, hungry, you know,

excited, young, talented guy who. wouldn't require any of the star. trappings or salary that he demands and. probably get at least equal to, if not. potentially in a year, a bigger number. Like why why don't any of these other. comedians acknowledge that? Why do they. all go along with this? Well, ironically, I this is the part of it. that, you know, you could go to to. YouTube and find some young comedian who. doesn't have a huge name, but has like a. big following online, which is, you.

know, if they have a following online, it means their following tends to be a. lot younger than the average network or. or cable news viewer, which is what's. craved by advertisers and the like. So, they're more valuable. The problem is is. that the reason why they don't just take. somebody like that and pay them, you. know, 120th of what Steven Cobar is. making and give them an hour on CBS News. is because they can't control those. people. They don't trust them enough. They don't have enough of a proven track. record that they're good, malleable. people. And you know, your stint at NBC.

was very shortlived in part because you. weren't that malleable. you know, you. they couldn't just. >> hold you and into something that they. wanted you to be or that the other. people there wanted you to be. And the. fact that that you weren't is why you. were gone so so soon. So that's the. irony is Steven Colbear has lasted there. so long because he's never been. offensive. They were willing to lose. money on him because he never really did. anything. You know, basically that show. is some movie star, some actor has a new.

show, a new book, a new whatever they. want to promote. So the deal is they go. they go on those shows, they sit down. for like eight minutes, talk a few. minutes about some pre-planned story and. then the rest of the time promoting the. project. It's like the easiest thing in. the world, but that's what that show. that's what those networks want. They. don't want edgy comedy or people they. can't control and that's why they've. lost their audience. Farewell. I mean, just truly farewell. It's like I I don't know. I I feel like. I don't know what they're going to.

replace him with, but who cares? The. whole medium has become totally. irrelevant. It should just lean into. what it is, which is it's it's political. hit jobs every night after night. I. mean, it's interesting to me because. those five late night comedians, quote. unquote, just launched a podcast and. it's appearing on my podcast feed under. the news feed. Not entertainment news. >> Yeah. >> They're actually So, like they're not. that they're not entertainment and.

they're not news. I don't know what they. are. >> But also, [laughter] but also as you as. you noted and I when I tell people this. who aren't, you know, conservatives, people get shocked. The number one rated. late night talk show host in the country. is Greg Gutfeld. His audience is not. huge, but he is the number one rated uh. late night talk show. He's number one. Notice he's never included in their. little club, even though he has the. bigger audience of all five of them. because they're not. >> joining on the basis of comedy. They're. joining on the basis of politics. And.

Greg Gut Gutfeld doesn't fit in. He fits. in as a late night comedy show host. That's what he is. >> But not as the the political actors they. think they are that they've recast. themselves as. >> No. The way they talk I'm sure the way. they talk about Gutfeld and Fox is just. like, you know, the cult over there, whatever. He's not real. Those numbers. aren't real. Um, yeah. The day they. announced Colbear's cancellation, uh, his guest was Adam Schiff. I mean like. no one wants to see Adam Schiff on as a.

late night entertainment guest, you. know, is like those shows when we were. young had Tom Cruz and Julia Roberts and. A-list celebrity. >> and like Rodney Dangerfield and like uh. that that insult comic was on the Don. Rickles, you know, like it was very it. was I'm not saying it was never. political, but it was like entertainment. people who were identified as being like. entertainers. It was it was really a. show for entertainers and and it was. funny. That's what he the guests he. invited back were the ones he thought. was funny. The ones that Americans liked.

as they went to sleep. Having Adam. Schiff on. Could you imagine Johnny. Carson having someone like the Adam. Schiff equivalent on especially on the. night that you get you announced your. cancellation? That already is showing. the attempt to infuse it with this like. political importance. >> But like all liberal. >> and and Johnny Carson also was in the. business of making stars. Like if you. got the chance to appear on his show as. a comedian, you were on your way to. becoming a star. Letterman had that in. the beginning, too. None of these guys. has that ability. They can't make stars.

They don't they don't have enough star. power themselves. Speaking of star. power, we've been talking this week on. this show about the Michael Jackson. story, the new movie, and the. allegations against him, Glenn. And um. we actually I talked about the the. nature of this movie and the. controversies around it because it stops. before any of the sexual molestation. scandal came out. >> Uh and I hadn't yet seen it, but I did. go to see it with my with my family on. Wednesday night.

>> It was amazing. I have to say I highly. recommend it. It was supremely. entertaining. Both actors who play the. young Michael Jackson and the older. Michael Jackson, the older of whom is. Jafar Jackson, Germaine Jackson's son. He he's Michael Jackson's nephew. Uh did. such a great job. But the younger kid. did such a great job, too. Gosh, they. were very talented. By the way, for. those wondering, you can take the whole. family to it. The only viewer warning is. Joe Jackson was an abusive bastard. Michael's dad. And there is a scene in.

the beginning where he beats Michael. That is very jarring even to us old news. cynical bastards. Um it was upsetting. The little boy did almost too good a job. of ask acting hysterical and hurt. Other. than that, you're good. But he's been. very much in the news. And I'm not gonna. ask you about the Michael Jackson. scandal, but I am sort of it's it's it's. led to a bunch of discussions about. whether we even have celebrity like that. anymore. Like Michael Jackson. transcended everything. Doug and I were. talking about this this morning. Like he.

he transcended race. He himself was. neither black nor white really over the. course of his life. He transcended. aging, right? He never sort of grew up. He always remained a child in his, you. know, what he liked, the people he. wanted to hang out with. I I understand. the controversy with that, but I'm just. saying um he he. it was just something like he he he was. for everyone. He wasn't just for women. like the way Taylor Swift is. Um or just.

for men, you know, the way some of these. like I don't know, maybe hard rocker. bands, I don't know, but he was for. everybody. And he was universally known, universally beloved. He was just such a huge star. And I. wonder whether is it even possible to. have that today? Is there anybody who we. could use to help explain that level of. fame and notoriety to our kids? I this is something I do think is so. interesting. Uh. like Michael Jackson came to Brazil once.

and I think maybe more than once and to. this day people in Brazil talk about it. It was like a huge moment in Brazil. He. I think actually filmed a a music video. in one of the Rio fabllas. Um, and he. had extreme global fame. And like I. think it very much relates to what we. were just talking about, which is, as. you said, uh, Michael Jackson didn't do. anything that would alienate a. particular group. He wasn't trying to. plant his flag and say, "I'm this, and.

if you're not this, I'm not for you.". Um I remember actually Michael Jordan. who was by far the biggest athlete uh. certainly the biggest basketball player. but I say the biggest athlete when we. were growing up as well um was once. asked like why don't you comment on. politics and he basically said this. famous phrase which is well Republicans. buy shoes too buy tennis sneakers as. well I'm not in the field of being a. politician if I run for the Senate maybe. I'll take political stands but I'm a. basketball player I'm an entertainer I'm. in the business of selling things I. think that's a big part of what has been.

lost but also So uh. with the internet it's it's amazing. You. can go online and find people who are. quite famous by every metric. You know. people who are known by millions of. people, people who get stopped on the. street, people who have huge numbers of. fans and every and a lot of people have. no idea who they are. It's like fame has. become very diffused, very kind of. segmented and segregated in know and I. think it reflects what we were just. talking about which is that we don't. anymore have this kind of common.

cultural gathering place this kind of. common culture even almost because you. know you can if you're a streamer if. you're a YouTuber if you're an. entertainer you can appeal to a niche. global audience and make huge amounts of. money gather millions of fans and also. be completely unknown to. huge numbers of people as well. And it, you know, it's like what you were just. saying. You know, if you went on Johnny. Carson, you were there. He could make a. star because so many millions of.

Americans were watching. That doesn't. exist anymore. There is no common. cultural uh kind of gathering point that. we have any longer. It's all been so. segmented and segregated. And I maybe. you can find some benefits in that, but. I also do think that there are um some. serious harms to that as well. We want. to share things in common with one. another across lines, but everything is. so politicized. Everything is so. segmented. >> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. It was just or. actually, you know, now that you mention.

it, you know, I've uh been working on. this project about issues with with. animals like you saw this thing with. Richmond Farms and the horrific. experiments that were being done to be. >> and you know, I've known the activists. working on this for a decade. I wrote. about it a decade ago because of them. And yet all of a sudden like this this. very apolitical. trans ideological movement formed around. this issue. You had like Laura Trump and. Laura Loomer and like Fox News. personalities. You were doing it. Lots.

of Republican members of Congress as. well as liberal members of Congress and. leftwing activists completely aligned. and assembled around this common cause. that we all can relate to, which is. dogs. And the idea of industrially. abusing dogs and torturing dogs is. something that horrifies all of us. There's and the reason I noticed it is. because it so rarely happens. Whereas it. used to happen a lot more like with. Michael Jackson. Michael was Michael. Jackson on the left or the right? Neither. Neither. He didn't have that. prison at all.

>> No. Exactly right. And he he there's a. line in the movie um and again it was. made by his estate and by people who. love Michael and with the full. cooperation of his family. I think is. executive produced by his brother. Germaine. His mother is still alive and. clearly blessed it. And the actor Jafar. who plays him who's the grandson of. Michael's mother said she approved. Like. this has been blessed by the family. But. there is a line in there where Michael. said he wanted to avoid too much.

overexposure. He wanted to be like Greta. Garbo who really didn't put herself out. there that much. That he liked there. being a level of mystery. And really. Michael Jackson did live up to that when. think of your memories of Michael. Jackson. He gave a couple of massive. like interviews that were massive. because he never did them and because he. made so much news in them like with. Martin Basher. He gave one to Diane. Sawyer uh and one to Oprah. I can't. think of others off the top of my head, but like. >> the fact that I can even list the ones. he did.

>> tells a tells us a lot. and he tr he. intentionally tried to to keep his big. performances on stage or on vinyl, you. know, and it's just the opposite of the. way the stars are today where they're. everywhere. They'll go to anything and. they'll overshare, you know. I like. Charlies Theren. I just saw some video. of her on a subway being interviewed by. somebody like giving up all these sex.

secrets and she's done this before. She's talked about her sex secrets. Let. me just tell you there's one sex secret. about Charlies Theren that she's. obviously not giving up yet. And um I I. don't know why because let me tell you. Charlies, it's fine. It's fine at this. in 2026 America. you can declare what. you actually are and everybody will. still love you. That's all I'm going to. say. Um, but in any event, it's too. much, Gwen. You know, it's like Tom Cruz. gets it. He keeps himself sort of not.

all that available. Some of these old. school stars still get it, but most. don't. And it's kind of sad like I think. we lost something. >> Yeah. It's like a mystique. You know the. what makes at the end of the day we're. all human and we're all have very. ordinary aspects to us even if we excel. and are exceptional in in one particular. or two particular areas. I think this. actually like Twitter used to do this. too. you know, there'd be very, very. respected people in their fields who had. accomplished great things and then they.

would just start, you know, getting. dragged down into the Twitter mud or. commenting on everything and it would. be, you would look at them and you would. say, "Wow, they're they're actually. quite mediocre. They, you know, it would. strip them of their image." So many of. those people um like during co a lot of, you know, just certainly in the Trump. era as well because mystique and enigma. is a really are really attractive. traits. It kind of draws you to people. You want to know more. But if they're. just shoving in your face everything. about their life, they have Instagram.

pages and they're posting everything. that they're doing and thinking and. saying it every second. You realize how. ordinary they are. And I think you're. right. Like one of the things about. these big stars is you feel like, oh, they they exist. They're very ethereal. You know, like the life is like only. they they materialize on stage as you. were saying with Michael Jackson in. front of like 300,000 screaming fans or. 150,000 people in a stadium. But if you. start hearing from Michael Jackson every. day about his thoughts on like whatever. he happened to watch on CNN or whatever. and he just like goes on Tik Tok or.

Instagram and you know you're going to. be like, "Oh, that's he's zero. He's. mediocre." And that is it's like this. attention addiction in this attention. economy. I think we all have it a little. bit. You have to like fight against it. and resist it. And yeah, I think I think. you're exactly right. This overexposure. is is has killed like any of the. mystique of celebrities. become almost. todrey. >> Leon Leonardo DiCaprio, he's good that. not, you know, he doesn't give many. interviews. It's It's good. You know,

back in our day, they used to not really. put themselves out there. Every once in. a while, they might do a Barbara Walters. sitdown for one of her most fascinating. people specials. Those were always great. because they would be more profiles of. the person where you really got to know. them on their ranch. like with Clint. Eastwood, maybe she'd ask you if you'd. been involved in a scandal, a couple of. like very blunt questions, so that was. always a highlight. It was a different. way of getting to know them and they all. knew the price of admission and it. worked. But today, it's like sitting on.

the subway talking about your intimate. sex preferences is just weird and it's. too much and it's the opposite of garbo. By the way, Trump once told me that. that's Melania's approach, too, that. she's more like a garbo, you know, >> which I think is actually I think that. is very true. like we don't ever I like. barely know Melania's voice like given. her stature and her platform we barely. hear much from her or about her. Um and. it's clearly part of I think you're. absolutely right like a deliberate.

conscious effort not to to kind of be. this person that you want to know more. about, right? Like when someone has a. like a kind of wall between you and them. and it's hiding things which they should. be because you don't need to know. everything about them, it kind of makes. them more interesting. Like you want to. know more. Whereas if she were just. sounding off every day about everything, you'd be like, "Oh, just please go. away." She really I think that's a. really good point. >> Jill. >> Yeah. Like after the um latest. assassination attempt at the Hinckley. Hilton in Washington, you know, Melania.

was right next to Trump for that one. It. wasn't like Butler. She where she was. not even there. She was there and she. would have been potentially in the line. of fire. And uh Trump held that press. her immediately after back at the White. House and she was there and he said do. you somebody asked about Melania and he. was like do you want to you know come up. and she declined. She ne like it's. that's why when she came out and did the. little bit on Ebstein and like stop the. lies we're not we weren't friends. It. was so extraordinary. It's like oh my. god she's speaking. She never speaks. She never covetss the camera the.

microphone. and she did her little. documentary on her life which was. controlled and that what she that's what. she was comfortable with but she rarely. feels the need for us to see her or to. put her voice or her opinions on camera. It's a 180 from the last first lady and. it's delightful because if ever there. was a woman who the camera loved, it's. Melania Trump. She just doesn't feel the. need for that kind of attention, which. is probably good for them because in. that in that marriage there there can. only be one who who needs attention.

>> Imagine wanting to having to compete. with Trump when it comes to media. attention. That would be very fatal to. any kind of connection. >> No, exactly. You've got a seed here. And. back back to you and that works for both. of them. >> Um, okay. Wait, speaking of loving the. camera though, Kla Harris is back. She. she's gotten a little taste of it, Glenn, and she she's enjoying it. She's. back and she's got a lot of predictions. or forecasts or pieces of advice, I. guess we should say, for how the. Democrats um should combat what they see.

as the gutting of the Voting Rights Act, the reason the Voting Rights Act has. over the past 70 years been rolled back. bit by bit to the point where it's. really no longer doing anything is. because we've grown. We've grown as a. society. we are no longer meeting blacks. at the polling stations with rabid dogs. um and you know citizenship tests and uh. the Supreme Court has evolved on the on.

its juristp prudence around it too. Now. they're pretending that we've gone right. back to Jim Crow because of the Supreme. Court's latest ruling on how you can't. draw these districts such that they like. empower only black people in the in the. state of Louisiana and um you know not. whites and so on. It's like just draw. them the way you want to draw them. Anyway, there's been a lot of extreme. reactions to this decision and Kla. Harris has decided to weigh in. She went. to a group that's for black women.

uh to give them her her sort of thoughts. on it. The name of this group is Win. with Black Women. It was an emergency. virtual meeting meeting. Uh their. website describes them as a collective. of intergenerational intersectional. black women leaders throughout the. nation. They come together to stand. united in support of black women. So. here is what she said to that group in. terms of how to fight this thing. I think that we need an expanded.

playbook. This is a moment where there. are no bad ideas, a no bad idea. brainstorm is what I'd like to call it. And in that no bad ideas brainstorm, we. talk about what we need to do and think. about doing around the electoral. college. We talk about the idea of Supreme Court. reform, which includes expanding the. Supreme Court. We invite a conversation. about multimemembers districts. We talk. about look that that if we win the.

Senate, which we should and we will, then the Senate Judiciary Committee. should have rules that they put in. place. So when these people come before. as nominees to the Supreme Court and lie. that they are held to account and. consequence, let's talk about statehood. for Puerto Rico and DC. These are the things I think that we've. got to do. We've got to neutralize these. red states from cheating,

including blue states expanding their. maps. Look, we got to fight fire with. fire. These folks are playing to win. We. got to play to win, too. She slips into her little accent there. at the end. Um, I think she means it. What's scary to me is she means it. And. a lot of the stuff she wants to do there. that's extremely radical can be done. with Democrat control of the White House. and a simple majority in both bodies of. Congress. >> I don't know that she means anything. That's the thing about com. There are. people who mean that like everything.

about her is such a fraud. And we were. talking before about like the lack of. mystique. You know, she's was the vice. president of the United States. There. comes like a certain grandeur of that. office. And when she's just there on a. Zoom with her like background blurred. and saying this stuff in this fake. accent that she's not hers, trying to. put on a persona that's clearly not. hers, trying to blackify herself because. in the last election a lot of black. people even said, "I don't even think. she's black." You just realize the fraud. of her. But yeah, I mean the Democratic. party believes like the Republican party.

believes by the way that the other side. cheats and goes to any length and that. they have to too. She's just echo. She's. the last thing she is as a radical. She's like a very. like kind of like. a a coar like pretending to be this. anti-system radical but in reality she's. a byproduct of the system in the. establishment. This is just kind of a. well blackface if you will um in order. to create a new personality. >> It is an interesting preview though. because we've heard James Carville say.

this, we've heard her say this. Most. Dems are saying this behind the scenes. When we come back, I'm just going to lay. out for the audience exactly how all. that could [music] could in fact happen. if everything goes blue next election. cycle. Stand by. Glenn's with us [music]. for the show. Hey, thanks for watching today's full. episode. If you're new here, throw us a. subscribe. See what you think. Stay in. touch. There's plenty more goodness. where this one came from. As always, we. really do value your feedback. So, email. me, too. Megan megnancell.com.

or just leave a comment down below. I do. read them. I meander over and I scroll. through and I find them very. entertaining and really appreciate the. feedback. But in any event, join the. community by becoming a subscriber, so. you miss nothing. We value your support. We may not always agree on positions, but as you know, I'm very open-minded to. people who disagree with me. That's how. I learn. So, thanks and thanks for. trusting us to always talk about it. openly, honestly, and with provocative. conversations. When there are supply. constraints on commodities, prices.

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[music] Harris uh comments. She seems to. want to talk about getting rid of the. electoral college, something that has. been tried 700 times before, literally, and would require a constitutional. amendment, which is not going to happen. So, that's pie in the sky Um. packing the court, she doesn't say. packing the court there. She says, "Let's try to hold the Supreme Court. justices who make us promises during. their confirmation hearings to account. if they don't live up to their promises. later." That's never going to fly. That. will be a separation of powers.

violation. Um there's been fierce legal. debates over this for many, many years. And those who believe Congress cannot. control the Supreme Court, a co-equal. branch of government in this way will. win that. So that's another pie in the. sky. However, and I don't know what she. means about multi-members districts. We're going to look at multimembers. district. I have no idea what she's. talking about. Is that redistricting? They're doing that now. the Democrats. are on the losing end of that effort. thanks to the court rulings across the. nation. Um, but when she talks about.

statehood for Puerto Rico and DC and. when other Democrats talk about packing. the court, adding additional justices, all of that can be done if the Democrats. simply win control of the White House, win control of the House, and win. control of the Senate. They actually can. do that. And this is what many people. fear is that they will get rid of the. filibuster because you would need a. filib a filibuster proof majority in. order to get a vote on these things. But. if you get rid of the filibuster in the. Senate, you'll you can do that. And all. you need is a simple majority. I mean, I.

think a lot of people don't realize that. if you want to make Washington DC a. state or Puerto Rico a state or even. Trump right now is casually referencing. Venezuela becoming a state, which we. don't want, um, all it requires is a. majority vote in the House, Senate, and. for the president to sign it into law. Same for adding seats to the US Supreme. Court. So we truly could be one election. away, not the midterms, but the one. after from having the kind of rule that. truly could radicalize the country,

Glenn, and more and more Democrats are. speaking openly about wanting to do it. But would they? >> Here's the thing. I think a lot of this. is about the political realities, which. is, and I'm not endorsing this or. defending it in any way. am simply. describing that there's this widespread. view among Democratic voters the kind of. party base that the Republican party. basically treats politics as a war is.

willing to do anything and anything to. gain power and the Democratic party is. always this meek little ethical club. that feels compelled to abide by the. rules. Now, I know Republicans think the. same thing that their party is always. body bying the rules and the Democrats. are these, you know, power- hungry. monsters who will do anything. Probably. some truth to each of those things. But. because Democrats perceive that and then. also perceive that Trump is this a this. historical evil, this existential threat. to American democracy we've never.

confronted before. because they think. those things. They've lost patience with. any politician who seems to be too uh. constrained by conventions or the. constitution or the law or tradition, >> the pesky matter of the US constitution, >> these little annoying technicalities uh. like the constitution and separation of. powers. And that's why Chuck Schumer, for example, has become so extremely. unpopular among Democratic voters.

because there's a perception that he. sticks to these old rules. And this is. what one of the reasons why AOC has. become so popular. It's not really an. ideological shift at all. Like maybe on. Israel there's an ideological shift. Maybe on foreign policy a little bit. It's not really about that. It's about. this idea that you're supposed to be. combative. You're supposed to get down. in the dirt with the Republicans and. show the Republicans that the Democratic. party will cross lines too like the. Republicans are doing. That was the. whole thing with the Virginia. redistricting battle was to prove that. the Democrats are going to steal seats. through redistricting as well. And all.

of this stuff is is necessary. No, it. did not. It's necessary for Kla Harris. to have some kind of credibility because. she wants to run for president again in. 2028 among Democratic party voters. She's now trying to show, hey, I'm out. here with my black accent that I never. had before and I'm gonna speak in that. because that's really combative. It's a. very very condescending but also um. these ideas Kla Harris is an. institutionalist. She's worked her way. up the political system by being as far.

from a radical as you can be. She was a. prosecutor is how she started. It's. always been at the center of the party, but now they feel like they can't have. viability. You're going to get depicted. as being Chuck Schumer or Hakeim Jeff. who they also hate if you're too wedded. to traditional rules. So this idea of. expanding the court statehood for DC and. and and Puerto Rico obviously would. become too high over extremely. democratic states. This is stuff that I. don't believe Kla Harris believes. But. if and we've seen this before when you. have politicians kind of pandering to.

voters with ideas that they have even. though the DC class doesn't have them. you can push the Overton window far. enough that it does become the position. of the Democratic party. And I do think. it becomes something that's of course. not going to happen to something that. will actually if if they get enough. political power which they might Trump. is unpopular the wars made them. unpopular gas prices economy epste that. has given not the Democratic party a. popularity boost but the Republicans a. big albatross certainly in 2026 and.

maybe into 2028 then it is possible and. and I do think that kind of talk. warrants attention. Yeah, it's scary to me because you hate. I mean you genuinely hate to see Trump's. approval ratings where they are because. that's that's how we get to Democrats. controlling both houses of Congress and. god forbid the White House too. I mean. that to me that's genuinely scary. Um. the you the problem is the numbers are. going in one direction and it's not.

great. Uh this is the latest from Harry. Anon who took a look at Trump's approval. ratings this morning. Trump's net. approval rating hits a new low. You. could see it right here, 20 points. underwater. And what you just see on. your screen right here is it's been a. steady climb downward. You know, you go. back to January of 2025. At the. beginning was plus 6, then -6. By May. 2025, - 9, -14, -15. But over the last. few months, as the Iran war has taken. shape, as those gas prices have jumped.

through the roof, Trump has hit a new. low. He's at minus 20 points, which is. the lowest point of his second term. Have there been any polls recently in. which Trump has not had a negative net. approval rating? Every poll since March. 29, 2025, that is over a year ago, you. can't find a single poll in which he has. anything but a net negative approval. rating. And you just look right at this. and you say the net effect on your. personal finances. The best of the group. is the tax law, right? That's 16 points.

underwater. How about tariffs? 49 points. underwater. How about the Iran war? That. effect on your finances. 67 points. underwater. No wonder Trump is. underwater in every single poll. No. wonder he's hitting new lows in the. aggregate. >> Oh, that is depressing stuff. But we're. six months out from the midterms and. maybe there's some some time to stop the. bleeding. Um, the problem is he doesn't really seem to.

recognize those numbers as real, Glenn, because when given the chance to show. even fake empathy for people's economic. situation at home, he doesn't. It's I. mean, to his credit, it's really not on. brand for Trump to do so, and he's. sticking with his authentic self. But. it's like as a supporter of generally. more Republicans than Democrats, I'd. certainly like to see at least an. attempt at it because people are hurting. and clearly they're angry.

>> Yeah. I mean, I think the only thing I. like on CNN, by the way, is Harry Eden. because it's kind of like polling data. in the form of like Catkill or the Borch. Belt comedian kind of delivery. It's. like very weird mix. [laughter] It. actually makes it interesting. >> Yes. Like a dirty dancing. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's bizarre. Nothing. is interesting to see the NPC except. that. And also, by the way, he's pretty. straightforward about things like he's. talked before about the Democrats. difficulty, about Trump's popularity. He's not really a partisan hack. He. tries to really stick to what shows.

>> Yeah. Um, I think on the one hand, Trump's insolerity on this question is. understandable because both times that. he ran when he won, the poll showed him. losing by a significant margin and and. it damaged the credibility of polling. There was that poll ridiculous poll from. Anne Celtzer in Iowa, the gold standard. that made everyone think Trump was not. going to just lose but lose big and then. he of course won uh uh uh Iowa easily. Um, so I understand that on the one.

hand, but on the other, I think a lot of. this is that Trump is so surrounded by. sick fans. It really has become the. culture of the White House that they. constantly are just showing him anything. positive. Like he constantly goes back. to this one MGA poll that for. selfidentified ma people at the. beginning of the Iran war that he's. like, I'm at 100%. It's become like I'm. at 100% with everybody. And you see. there the unpopularity of the Iran war, which of course is going to be. unpopular. He ran on a promise not to. engage the country in this these kind of. wars. And if there weren't any. implications at home that there weren't,

you know, there aren't uh thankfully. huge numbers of of troops being killed, but there already are disruptions at the. gas at the gas pipe. And I think a big. part of that is this message that has. been conveyed to from DC for so long. We're not we don't really care about. your suffering. We're interested in. these fun little adventures over here, these wars over here, these big meetings. over here. And you know, Trump ran on a. basic promise to represent what he. called the forgotten men and women, the. working class of the United States, the. de-industrialized rust belt. And the. focus of the administration has been not.

on that. Has been in many ways the. opposite. This war is extremely. unpopular. And I think the problem is um. with this war is that there's really no. way out for for Trump. I can't you know, it's kind of like the war in Ukraine and. and Russia. I always from the beginning. said if NATO defines victory as every. Russian troop out of every inch of. Ukrainian soil including Crimea that is. never going to happen. And since NATO. defined it that way, there could never. be an end to the war because that was.

never going to happen. And either they. would accept an ending of the war that. wasn't that admit defeat to Russia, which they couldn't do, or the war would. just go on forever, which it seems like. it is. Same with this war. The Iranians. aren't going to give Trump the things he. said he needs because they don't feel. threatened enough. they feel like. they're in a good position. And the. longer it goes on, even though it's not. active combat, prices are going to rise. Oil is going to rise. There's huge. disruptions in the energy market. globally, but all sorts of other. secondary uh implications as well. People are feeling it where they care. most, which is at the pocketbook.

Already midterms are hard for an. incumbent president. When you add on. economic difficulties, a very unpopular. war that's hung around Trump's neck that. he talks about all the time because he. has to, I think it's very very grim. >> I mean, the best thing the Republicans. have going for them is the Democrats. They've got that that's a that's and. that is not nothing, you know, like you. look at your crazy ass opponent, it's. like you're still in it no matter how. low Trump's approval ratings are. He did. speak with uh Sean Hannity over in. Beijing where he's been for a couple of.

days this week in this bilateral summit. with Xiinping. Some interesting things happened before. I get to the sound bite. This this one. jumped out at me and I'll I'll explain. why. Um late Thursday. Okay, let me jump. back a little earlier. Um she gave a. speech. It was his opening remarks at. the bilateral meeting and in it in those. remarks he questioned if the two nations. could overcome the uh now forgive me.

because this is tough for me but it's uh. the thusidities trap the susid. thusidities thusidities. trap and that's a theory suggesting that. when a rising power threatens to. displace an established one a war could. result. So the Chinese president raised that in. his opening remarks addressing the. American president which is extremely.

provocative. I mean that is not. diplomacy. That is we're the rising. power. They've been open about their. plan to be the world's greatest. superpower by 2050. Um and they they can wait. And the. reason it jumped out at me is because I. actually happen to be reading this book. right here that my husband recommended. to me called Destined for War by Graham. Allison. And it the the subtitle is Can. America and China escape Thusidities. Trap? And it's all about that exact. thing. It's very interesting book and.

it's not that dense, you know, you can. you can read it even though it has the. word Thusidities in the in the front. Um, and it's all about how China is well. positioned to win this conflict between. the two countries because it has never. ending patience and it is the rising. power and that we are the declining. power. At least we're behaving like it. We have active decisions that that. project that and that it they're like. it's it's Sparta and Athens. um and the.

declining power eventually will lash out. and that there will be armed conflict. between the two. So he gets up there, the Chinese president raises this. question right in front of us. Rude. And. Trump decides to pretend that it was all. about Joe Biden. He he came out with. this long true social post um and. invoked Joe Biden suggesting, "Oh, that. was all about Crazy Joe and how he. really did have our nation in decline.". But he praised several things that I've. done, you know, to bring the country.

back. That's not how she wait uh worded. it at all. He did not limit it to Joe. Biden. This was an insult. And uh you. know, Trump, who was behaving more. diplomatically, chose to ignore it and. deafly put it on an earlier president so. they could still get along, which I have. to say was a good move by Trump. But one. has to hope that Trump recognizes in. fact what it was and behaves accordingly. because he doesn't sound like he's. getting ready to do that. Glenn, instead. he said the following. Um, let me start.

with ST five, which seems to be making. excuses for some rather offensive. intrusions the Chinese are about to make. into our country, which will only. accelerate their rise and you could. argue accelerate our decline. Here it. is. S five. I would assume I'm in. Beijing if I wanted to buy property near. one of their military installations. >> I don't think President would I don't. look it's not that I love it. You want.

to see farm prices drop. You want to see. farmers lose a lot of money. Just take. that out of the market. But they've. had a lot of land for a long time. Obama. did nothing about it. They bought a lot. of it during the Obama administration. He did nothing about it. As far as the. students, it's 500,000 students. They. come, good students. Uh, >> wow. >> I could tell them, I don't want any students. Is a very.

insulting thing to say to a country, they would then immediately go out and. start building universities all over. China. I frankly think that it's good. that people come from other countries. and they learn our culture and many of. them want to stay here. >> Glenn, who wants that? Literally, what American. wants? It was 300,000 Chinese students. like two months ago. Now it's 500,000.

And he goes on to say, "Many of them. will stay here. We don't want that. either. We don't want them taking up our. university slots at our most prestigious. universities." And we definitely don't. want them staying, nor do we want them. buying up American farmland. >> Well, there are some Americans who. actually do want that. Particularly Wall. Street and the corporate community, they. love the rel they're in bed with the. Chinese and always have been. I think if. you look at, you know, this kind of. theory about declining and rising powers. that uh you were mentioning, the Chinese.

president raised that that book uh. addresses. I read parts of that book, I. think I don't know, a couple years ago. Um and uh the the the big difference to. me in terms of the US China relationship. aside from the fact that both sides have. nuclear weapons and so a war could mean. instantaneous. extinction of the planet and the species. which I think adds a pretty pretty big. component is that generally when the. United States goes to war with a country. Iran or Iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam.

or whatever all the power centers are. united in the idea that that's an enemy. country. The business community has. always depended on China. Look at how. many American firms, crucial American. firms, Tesla and Apple and on and on. Use China and related markets for very. [clears throat] cheap labor for very. cheap production costs and then ship. those products back to United States in. order to be priced competitively. And. there's all I mean Elon Musk and all. those CEOs went to China because China. is crucial to their business model. And.

Trump is very much of this class. He you. know he's a nivist. He's anti-immigrant. on the one hand, but if you look at how. China how the how Trump has talked about. China and especially President Xi. President like Trump has this admiration. for people he thinks are like strong. tough leaders even if they're. dictatorial even if they're he this is. something that he respects on a personal. level. people are like tough and strong. and have an iron grip on power and. President Xi and the Chinese merit.

respect in that if you if that's your. worldview and he's always talked about. she in very respectable terms and he. wants a friendship with shei. >> and. >> but he's not getting it that that's one. of the interesting things sorry to. interrupt you but just quickly he kept. complimenting she he kept over and over. kept complimenting him and and they. weren't the compliments were not. returned that's not how the Chinese. behave it was it was not great that that. piece of the dynamic keep going. >> I know But I think that, you know, like. we grew up with this framework that the. Republicans are really strong on foreign.

policy, the Democrats are weak. It's. kind of something that you like just. wind people up and everybody thinks. But. if you look, for example, you know, like. when President Obama was was in office, the John McCain and Lindsey Graham used. to attack him for being too soft on. Russia. And then Trump comes in and it's. the Democrats who demand more. involvement of the war in Ukraine, more. confrontation with Russia in Syria. Uh. that was a big Hillary Clinton thing. Nancy Pelosi flew to Taiwan and treated. the Taiwanese like they were their own. separate sovereign state. A very. anti-China provocative move. And Trump.

has always been very kind of talked. about China the way Wall Street does, like in these very respectful terms, like we need China. We can't separate. from China. Even this thing like yeah, I. want Chinese students there. They're. great people. They they contribute a lot. to society. And I think you see these. conflicting impulses. And look, on the one hand, I don't think. we should want people pursuing a war. with China and the United States. Um, but on the other hand, they are. definitely a competitor and you could.

even say an adversary that wants to. supplant the United States and influence. all throughout the world and people. responsible for the United States and. for its government should think about. China in that way. And I think on some. level, Trump doesn't. He looks at. President Xi, sees like a strong equal. businessman and wants to do deals with. him and and has a respect for him that, as you say, I don't think the Chinese. return for Trump or the United States. >> No, no, they they did not return it and. I don't think they'd return it for any. American leader. It was to me offensive.

that he raised that in his opening. remarks and just the hassle they gave to. our Secret Service and having guns and. entering rooms that that came out. reportedly that they were very conf. confrontational with Secret Service that. because they were armed. Yes. Hello. They're with a president who they've. tried to assassinate four times here in. the country. Yeah. They're they're going. to have their armed weapons. Like stop. harassing us. And apparently somebody. from the admin made the point to them, we would never do this to you in our. country. Like knock it off. So, I don't. It was annoying. They They're annoying.

And we don't need 500,000 of them in our. universities, never mind staying here. and buying up our farmland. And Trump's. only excuse on the farmland was like, "Oh, the prices of farms are going to go. down, suggesting the competition for. them is going to go away." Well, I who. how do we know that there there actually. might be American buyers for these. farms? But why do we want the Chinese to. own all our farmland? They already are. They already owned some significant. portion of it. like Smithfield, they. have Smithfield Farms. Yeah. I mean, >> I was just going to say ask any beef or.

pork producer. >> Yeah. And I I think like we've seen this. conflict before in Trump, you know, that. whole controversy, remember, with the. H-1Bs with the Vakama Swami and Elon. Musk saying, "You guys are insane if you. don't want more people here on on H-1Bs. because obviously Silicon Valley and. Wall Street love H-1Bs because these. people come and they work for less than. Americans do and they're basically. indentured servants because their. ability to stay in the United States. depends on their keeping their job. Employers love that kind of dependency, that kind of power and leverage they. have over. But the anti-immigrant wing.

of of Trump's movement, the American. first wing is like, "Wait, now we're. trying to bring more foreigners into the. United States." I thought the idea was. we wanted to get rid of them. And you've. seen this, you know, in other. immigration contexts as well, like these. mass immigrations. when Trump started. when the when I started, you know, trying to deport farm workers or hotel. workers, you know, big corporate chains. of hotel owners and and big farming. interests went to the White House and. said, "You can't. These are our workers. Yeah, they're they're undocumented. They're illegal, but they work for less. We need them." And that's when you saw. Trump say, "We're not going to.

necessarily Trump has hotels, too." And. he said, "Yeah, we're not going to. necessarily target illegal uh legals who. are working in in these industries. because we don't want to harm our. industries." you. This conflict is very. real. Trump is not really Appuchanan. He's not a nivist in this pure sense. It's a strain of his politics that he. picked up on that he knew could be. beneficial. I think Trump's idea is. basically let's keep out the bad ones. like the ones from the bad countries, the ones whose culture they just come. and stay on welfare or whatever, but the.

good ones like the Indians, the Chinese. that we want them working for Silicon. Valley, we that's I think Trump's. mindset. It's very much the Wall Street. Silicon Valley mindset. Of course, Trump. is very tied to both sectors. >> Well, they'll be the only Asians who get. into Harvard, uh, given the way they do. their admissions now, not. outwithstanding the Supreme Court. decision. So, good luck with that. Um, welcome to our world. Um, one other. thing on Trump, I mean, I think I think. in the president's defense, I think he's. thinking it would be very nice to get. along with China, right? We do not want. a world war with China. We don't. I.

agree. >> And we are dependent on them buying some. of our materials, too. It's not just one. way. like he he said soybeans he. mentioned he said they're going to buy. 200 Boeing jets which is very good for. Boeing. So he's trying to sort of okay. these are areas we can cooperate on we. can be friends and Trump he does have a. sense of optimism. which is to his credit but not always. valid in the political context right in. dealing with China I think we need a a. hefty dose of cynicism and suspicion um.

so I don't know you know the president I. do think he understands that there are. risk and he's trying to play the long. game but it's frustrating to hear talk. of half a million Chinese students. coming and staying to America. No, thank you. Um, okay, one more. There. was an admission on the Iran war, which. jumped out at me and it might to you, too. Here it is in ST 7. We're doing it to help Israel and to. help Saudi Arabia and to help uh Qatar. and UAE and, you know, Kuwait and other.

countries, Bahrain. >> It also helps China. And we're actually. I told him today I said you know we're. helping you and we're helping you in. another way because I don't think they. want I don't think China wants Iran to. have a nuclear weapon either. I said. this don't go crazy. You don't need them. having a nuclear weapon either. >> What did he say? What did he say? >> Well, he's not going to respond to much. He's pretty cool guy. He's not going to. say, "Oh, gee, that's a good point.". >> I think he might.

>> What's he going to do? What a wonderful. point. >> You think he agreed? >> Yeah, I think that was the impression. I. don't think he wants him to have No, he. would like to see it end, but he's been good about it, you know. >> So, there it is. I mean, lest there was. any doubt, it's the first thing in the. answer. We did it to help Israel. We're. doing it to help Isra other countries. He has said the world can't have Iran. having a nuclear weapon. But just to say. that is so controversial that we're. doing it to help Israel. We know. We.

know that. We've said that many times. Then you get called an anti-semite. That's not anti-Semitic. It is a fact. You heard it from the president of the. United States himself. He thinks it's. also helping some of the Gulf Arab. states. Fine. That that's not. controversial. You can say that. But. prior to the president saying it himself. explicitly, you weren't allowed to say. that other piece of it or you were. called an anti-semite. >> I thought this was a movement that was. calling itself America first. And then. you have Trump saying, "Oh yeah, this.

will work." Yeah. Like it's kind of. helping us. We don't want them to have a. nuclear weapon. you know, yeah, we're. helping Israel get rid of their big. enemy. And also, when we talk about. these Persian Gulf states, what we mean. are Persian Gulf dictatorships, Arab. dictatorships. that have extreme levels of human rights. abuses that we claim to be so offended. when they appear in Iran? You think. protesters fare any better in Dubai or. in Riyad or in uh Doha or in any in. Bahrain or Kuwait? No, they or than.

Iran. No, they don't. And this idea, you. know, we're and also the straight of. Hormuz. Trump himself said at the. beginning out of frustration, look, if. you're not willing to go to a war with. Iran to open the Straight of Hormuz, we. don't have to do it. We don't need the. Straight of Hormuz, which is true. We. don't get oil from the Straight of. Hormuz. China does, and the Gulf States. need the Straight of Hormuz to sell oil, but the it Trump is in bed with these. Persian Gulf dictators. He loves them, too. They're extremely rich. They have a. kind of shared aesthetic with this very.

ostentatious gold laden kind of, you. know, uh, wealth expression. He loves. them. His his family's in bed with the. with with the Persian Gulf States and. he's very close to them. He listens to. them and obviously to Israel. And I. don't think these are good things for. our country. Why are we why are we. prosecuting a war that's harming. Americans for the benefit of Israel or. these Persian Gulf dictators? And on the. question of China, yeah, I mean opening. up the straight of Hormuz is far more in. China's interest than ours. The problem.

is is that the only reason the Straight. of Hormuz is closed is because Israel is. because the United States joined Israel. and attacking Iran. It was perfectly. open. The Straight of Hormuz was prior. to this war for forever. It's only. closed now because it was a response to. the attack on on Iran. And I think the. rest of the world is like, you caused. this problem. It's your responsibility. to fix it. And I think it's a reasonable. view for most countries to have. It does make you wonder though, if we. did just pack up and go home, would. China swoop in and just make them open. it? You know, like what if we really did.

just say, "Yeah, sorry, but we're out. We did break the thing at Pottery Barn. and we're not going to pay for it. We're. just going to walk out of the store. Good luck getting us." I mean, it would. be kind of interesting and I don't I'm. so in favor of just wrapping it up for. so many reasons. That's very tempting to. me. Um probably the Chinese are much. better positioned to make the Iranians. open it than we are since they're a big. customer. I don't know. It seems like something we. should have on the table. >> Well, I think what would happen is Iran. would just say China is more than.

welcome to uh use this trade for moves. because of the power relationship. because they buy so much oil from Iran. from that area. Um and the Chinese do. have a lot of power and leverage with. Iran, but they could charge for pretty. much everybody else and they could do it. on a country bycountry basis. Remember. the Iran is not closing the straight of. Hormuz. Iran is closing the straight of. Hormuz for the United States for people. they don't want using the straight of. Hormuz and charging for the rest. The. United States is the one that has a. blockade on any ships going to or from.

Iran. So it's the United States that's. blockading the straight of Hormuz from. the Chinese perspective, not the. Iranians. So if the Americans went home. tomorrow, like you said, which I think. we should do because there's no benefit. in continuing this war, anything else, it's only harming Americans. The Chinese. would be fine. They they do a lot of. business with Iran. Iran would perfectly. allow them to use the straight of Hormuz. under whatever commercial terms the. Chinese are comfortable with. This war. is serving nobody's interest other than. Israel's. And yes, there's animosity now in Saudi.

Arabia and and and the Amir and the. Amiradis and and and the the the the uh. in Bahrain and and with the with the. Qataris because Iran attacked those. countries and they attacked those. countries because the US used military. bases in them to attack Iran. They would. work that out. They would they they. don't want regional conflict. They don't. want to go to war with Iran. Iran's a. huge country. So everybody would be fine. if he left tomorrow except one country. and that country's name is Israel. That's the reason why Trump can't get. out. >> Yes. Correct. And that's the reason why.

Trump got in and it's the reason why he. can't get out. And it's one of the. reasons why Americans are more. disapproving of Israel now than ever. Uh. and that's not anti-semitism. That's. something called policy. Benjamin. Netanyahu and time after time in which. they've pulled us into um their fight, I. mean just the most recently twice in the. last year, June and now again [music]. with this war. Uh okay, we have to take. a break. We're going to be right back.

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rates. Glenn, um, this week it came out that. the Alec Murdo. conviction for killing his wife and son. Paul had been overturned. Uh, and he's. been granted a new trial by the Supreme. Court of South Carolina. Very. interesting case. I think they 100% made. the right decision even though I think. he's guilty because there was a clerk of. court named Becky Hill who clearly. interfered with the jury who there was.

testimony. She was explicitly telling. them watch his body language when he was. taking the stand. Another juror who. would ultimately be dismissed, the. so-called egg juror, because she left. her eggs in the jury room. And when she. got dismissed, said, "Can I go get my. eggs, my my dozen eggs in the jury room, testified that Becky Hill explicitly. said to her, you know, oh, he's. basically he's guilty. I mean, like she. really just explicit manipulation. This. woman was very manipulative and Alec.

Murdoch, just like the rest of us, deserves a trial free from interference. by the court clerk." Now, um, one of the. jurors, now keep in mind, only three of. the jurors said they even had any. interaction with Becky Hill in which she. said anything to them beyond there's the. bathroom and here's your lunch. And so. NBC appears to have booked one of the. ones who had nothing to do with Becky. Hill. And that person is named Amy. Williams. And this is what she had to. say in S 25.

Some jurors tonight in disbelief at the. court's decision, undoing their verdict. >> And I was like, what? Why? The evidence. was overwhelming. He was guilty. >> Now, we also get Alec Murdoch's reaction. to the news breaking in the New York. Times. He reportedly said, quote, "I. still don't believe it. I don't believe. it." per his lawyers. Uh they say he. told he told them that in prison uh he. did not believe that they he they've.

denied so many of his motions. He just. didn't think he'd get one. They are. going to move for a change of venue if. and when the new prosecution is filed. either by the current AG or when his. term ends. All those running for the AG. spot have all said they want to retry. him too. And we debated on this show the. other day about whether they'd move for. a change of venue, which is his. hometown, and he might like it there. and they are saying indeed they will try. to seek a change of venue for this case. Um the jurors let's see uh the state.

supreme court said the judge uh who. oversaw the first trial had allowed. prosecutors to go too far too long and. far too deep into his financial. wrongdoings. So if and when they do. retry him, they will not be able to go. deep on what a financial crook he was. which was the motive for the crimes. That's why he killed them. He wanted. sympathy um as both his law firm and the. plaintiffs in this other case were. zeroing in on his finances and uh that's. why he murdered his own family. Um now.

meantime he's already been convicted for. the financial crimes in a separate. proceeding and sentenced to 27year state. prison sentence and a 40-year federal. sentence. They're running concurrently. and even if he receives credit for good. behavior, the most likely outcome is. that he'll be in prison until his late. 80s. So what's the point of all this, Glenn? And what is the point, while I. have you, of potentially retrying Harvey. Weinstein because the jury in his latest.

New York City criminal trial just. returned hopelessly deadlocked and a. mistrial was declared there, too. After. he was found guilty, that case went up. and it was argued to the New York State. highest court by our friend Arthur Idala. who convinced that court they had let in. a bunch of female testimonials against. him that had nothing to do with the. charges and it was too much undue. prejudice. They agreed. They sent it. back down. This was the retrial which. has now ended in ruination because they. couldn't convince a jury to convict him.

Uh so he is he headed for a third trial. when he's going to be in jail for pretty. much forever on the LA conviction. is. Alec Murdoch even though he's going to. be in jail pretty much forever based on. the financial convictions. >> I think both cases, but especially this. Murdoch case are is so interesting in in. so many ways has a lot of really. important lessons about how we think of. the justice system. OB I mean I can. understand why even if you're going to. spend the rest of your life in jail, you. would prefer not to have it reflected. that you murdered your own wife and son.

for the most sociopathic of reasons. So. I can understand why he would pursue. that. even if he were going to remain in jail. no matter what on these financial. claims, which as you say, he would. Um, that makes sense to me. But, you know, I. I'll just uh there there's always been. this this idea that has been part of our. political discourse for so long about. our criminal justice system that if. somebody's guilty, they shouldn't be let. off on what people often refer to as a. technicality. Like, oh, this woman made. a few comments she shouldn't have made,

but everyone knows he's guilty. Why. should we undo his conviction when as. that juror said, it's so clear that he's. guilty. And I remember uh in my first I. in my first year of law school, I had. this British professor who taught. criminal procedure and he was very. British but he lived in the United. States for 30 years. who was an American. citizen and he was he once said uh that. he remembers when he came to United. States and he started hearing it was. very common in the 80s and 90s when. people would say why did they let this. person off on a technicality and he said. I've never heard of a country that.

refers to its own constitution as a. technicality before like it matters like. you need a fair trial putting someone in. prison you know like Benjamin Franklin. and Thomas Jefferson said it's better to. let you know 10 guilty people go than to. punish one innocent person like these. rules really matter or putting people in. a cage for life, you want to make sure. the rules are are really abided by. before we let the state do that. And. even if he is undoubtedly guilty, and I. haven't studied the case in depth, but. from what I've seen, I think the.

evidence is overwhelming. I think a a. retrial is appropriate when you have an. officer of the court influencing the. jury, even if she didn't influence it, tried to in ways that clearly if you. were a defendant or if it was your. family member who was the defendant. facing many years in prison on on a. horrible crime, you would feel like that. was totally a contaminated procedure. And I think it's an important thing. because also what you're talking about. here is, you know, he comes as I'm sure. you've talked about many times covering. the story from like one of the most. powerful families in South Carolina. You. know, generations of prosecutors and,

you know, lead uh law enforcement. officers, very wealthy, very politically. powerful, kind of an aristocratic South. Carolina family. I think was so. important to demonstrate that even. somebody like that in South Carolina is. going to be held accountable under the. law. And and and they really done a very. good job of doing so. So, I think it's. also appropriate to retry him. Um, but. also like the Harvey Weinstein case, I. think also has such an important lesson. about our our criminal justice system. I'll just tell you quickly in Brazil, there was this case uh where there was.

this dog that got murdered. Um, and it. was like a beloved community dog. It. lived on the street, but the whole. community took care of the dog. It was. like their dog even though he was. technically homeless. And the story was. that four teenage boys came and just. tortured this dog, beat it, and then. killed it. >> I can't hear it. >> Yeah. No, as But anyway, as it turned. out, >> like that because they were teenagers, no media outlet would report their their. identity and so the internet found out. their identities, put their home.

addresses all over the internet. I. actually wrote a column saying this kind. of mob justice is very disturbing. because people can seem guilty based on. what you know but the trial is a really. important thing to actually determine. guilt or innocence. They've exume they. exumed the body of the dog. Turns out um. they can't really find any signs that. they were tortured. The kids have always. denied it, but their lives are ruined. because of this internet mob justice. I. think in the Harvey Weinstein case, I'm. not going to compare him to to them and. suggest that he he's not guilty. He's a.

horrible person. But I do think the Me. Too excess has produced a lot of. hysteria where they changed laws about. how long you can you have to bring. cases. That's why Eugene Carol was able. to sue Donald Trump. And I think it's so. important that we not let the media, social media, political impulses dictate. outcomes of who we decided are guilty. and innocent. the the laws and the rules. that we have even though they seem. legalistic have been developed over.

centuries. You know, going back to. British law and European enlightenment. concepts, these were designed by our. founders enshrined in the constitution. These are really important and I think. it's very uh good to have these kind of. cases that illustrate there. Even though. it seems like it's an annoying. bureaucratic process that often impedes. justice, at the end of the day, it is. the the system that high has the highest. potential of producing justice. Yes, I totally agree to agree with. everything you said and that was one of. the big things we weren't getting was.

trial by jury uh when we had our. revolution and demanded a new way and. that's why it's in the constitution as a. right we all have to a trial by jury of. our peers and that jury must be. impartial or as practically impartial as. we can get uh in today's day and age and. he he did not have that because of Becky. Hill so that's we got to do it all right. um this is a left field story but I love. these stories So, I've decided to bring. this to you, Glenn. Uh, we have another. pretendian in the news. What is a. pretendian, you ask? It is someone.

pretending to be an Indian for cultural. status, fake degrees, you know, honorary. degrees. Of course, we must pay homage. to the original pretend. Uh, and that. would be Elizabeth Warren, who, for our. younger viewers who don't remember this, she pretended to be an Indian for many. years, was listed on the Harvard Law. School faculty um, roster as a Native. American. Um, tried to write a cookbook. based on her Native American heritage, which was fake. She has no Native.

American heritage whatsoever, but she. got away for years by claiming she was. And this is how she explained her lies. when it came out that she wasn't. SAT. 32B. >> I still have a picture on my mantle at. home and it's a picture my mother had. before that. A picture of my grandfather. and my aunt be has walked by that. picture at least a thousand times. Remarked that he that her father, my. papa, had high cheekbones like all of.

the Indians do because that's how she. saw it. and she said, "And your mother. got those same great cheekbones." And I. didn't. She thought this was the bad. deal she had gotten in life. Being. Native American has been part of my. story, I guess, since the day I was. born. Uh, okay. It was part of her story. All. right. It was a fake part of her story. It was totally made up. These are lies.

she was telling. Um, yeah, she was. advertised as Harvard's first Native. American law professor. Uh, in any. event, we like the stories about the. pretends. And here is another one. She. has just, her name is Buffy St. Marie. She was awarded an honorary doctorate of. law degree from the University of. Toronto in 2019. At the time, they said. she was being recognized for her work in. music and the arts, as well as for her. advocacy for the rights and dignity of. all people. But on Wednesday, the.

university voted to resend her honorary. degree uh because she was lying about. her identity. She is not an Indian. She. pretended that she was Glenn. Um and it. came out in 2023 per the CBC, that's the. Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, that. um even though Buffy St. Marie had. appeared on Sesame Street in the 1970s. She'd won numerous awards including an. Oscar in 1983 for co-writing the song Up.

Where We Belong. She became considered. the first indigenous person to ever win. the award. Uh she appeared on a Canadian. stamp, but it turned out that she faked. her indigenous ancestry. And here is how. the CBC reported that in 23. >> Her niece Heidi St. Marie says her. aunt's ancestry story is an elaborate. fabrication. >> I mean, she's clearly born in the United. States. She's clearly not indigenous or.

Native American. >> The fifth estate obtained St. Mary's. birth certificate, which indicates she. was born in Stoneham, Massachusetts to. white parents, Albert [snorts] and. Wifford Santa Maria, the very people St. Marie claims adopted her. Her lawyer. says that document may not be authentic, but the Stonehamtown clerk says that's. not possible. >> I can say absolutely with 100% certainty. that this is the original birth. certificate. She was not born in Canada.

>> So, we're thrilled. We are thrilled that. yet another pretend Indian, pretendian. is outed and is losing the fake honors. she obtained through lying. I mean, this. must happen and then they must be shamed. in order to stop this from continuing. Glenn, >> there are always really hilarious. aspects to each one of these incidents. and then also some interesting and. important lessons. But just on Elizabeth.

Warren, um I once read a law law review. article when this all emerged and I was. looking into it that was about the. failure of Harvard to h or Ivy League. schools to hire professors, women of. color as professors. And then there was. a footnote saying there are some. exceptions like this woman got hired at. Yale, this black woman is at at at at. Princeton and then Elizabeth Warren was. hired the first Harvard made the first. was hired the first Native American. Elizabeth Warren was referred to as a.

woman of color and she all those years. she [laughter] knew this. I mean, she of. course understood that that's how she. she's like the whitest woman on the. planet and also I always just thought. like Trump as we know is actually funny. and the media gets confused by that and. he would this was always such an. inversion of the truth he would refer to. uh Elizabeth Warren as Pocahontas. He. even did it once when he was meeting. Native American tribe leaders in the. White House and the media was always. like that's racist against Native. Americans. He was never mocking Native. Americans. He was mocking Elizabeth.

Warren, who's not Native American, for. pretending to be Native American. And. they just still to this day insist that. the Pocahontas nicknamed for Elizabeth. Warren, which is perfect, is somehow. raced against Native Americans. And I do. think the interesting thing in the story. is like we're constantly told that white. people have all the advantages that. marginalized groups are treated so. poorly are excluded and denied. opportunities. Why is it that there are. so many of these stories like Rachel. Dozel, who is that white woman who. worked for the NAACP and pretend to be. black, braided her hair?

>> Yeah. Dozel. Um why why are there so. many of these stories where white people. are pretending to be members of. marginalized groups? Like you would. think a marginalized groups were treated. so terribly. Nobody you you would have. it in the other direction like, oh, I'm. going to pretend to be white because. that's the way you get treated well in. society. That's the way you get No, but. it's always these reverse stories. And. look at how many honors she got. Look at. how respectfully she was treated. almost. woripped as this like indigenous woman. when and she lied about her own parents. like because of course she has the.

whitest name ever and those parents have. the whitest names ever. >> and you see that all this she didn't do. anything other than identify falsely as. an indigenous woman and all these honors. and liberal culture is so effed up when. it comes to what it values and what it. prioritizes. >> little I didn't even know this um maybe. I knew it I forgot it but that such. little feather Heather who accepted. Marlon Brando's um Oscar for the. Godfather. She showed up at the Oscar. and she delivered a speech and it was.

about the treatment of Native Americans. and how bad it is. She was a pretendian. She was not Native American. >> Yeah, she was put feathers in their. hair. They put feathers in their hair. Like again, it's always so. condescending. [laughter]. It's like, yeah, I remember that she. showed up and Marlon Brando rejected his. Oscar to protest the treatment of Native. Americans and sent her as his symbol of. the the mistreatment of And she was. fake. She was just a white girl. >> Yes. Her family after she died in 2022. came forward and said she had been lying.

about her background. This is in the San. Francisco Chronicle. Uh they said their. sisters claimed to have Apachi and. Yakqui antress ancestry through her. father was quote a lie and a fantasy. It's you gotta love it. Accountability, Glenn. Appreciate it. Thank you for. helping walk me through it and uh have a. wonderful weekend, my dear. >> Always great to see you, Megan. Talk to. you [music] soon. >> You too.