BS Report on Cuba and Drones, and Why Pratt Can Win, w/ Halperin, Grim & Mills, Plus Why TDS is REAL

Hey everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome. to the Megan Kelly show and happy. Monday. It's been a busy spring for. politics with far more contested. primaries than in a usual cycle. Both. parties undergoing intraarty battles as. they try to position themselves ahead of. the midterms and the 2028 presidential. election. Mark Halperin of Next Up will. be here later to help us make sense of. what is breaking over the weekend. You. might say he's Next Up. But first, we. need to tell you about a story that's. not getting enough attention today. And. that is America's possible military.

action against Cuba. Yes, just when you. were getting tired of hearing about Iran. enter Cuba to possibly take center stage. in our foreign excursions. We told you. about it in AM update this morning, but. for those who did not get a chance to. listen or would like a more full. discussion, uh, a story by Axios over. the weekend really caught our eye. The. headline reads, "Exclusive. US eyes attack drone threat from Cuba. A.

threat from Cuba, which is basically. completely imploding and not in a. position to threaten anybody." But this. is what they're going with. The story. says the reporter got exclusive access. to US intelligence indicating Cuba has. obtained more than 300 military drones. 300 military drones. It goes on to say. that leaders of the island nation have. had discussions about attacking the US.

military base at Guantanamo Bay, US. military vessels, and maybe even Key. West, Florida. Yes. while they night. after night cannot even keep the lights. on or the in ICU units in their. hospitals powered literally losing power. on their ventilators of babies. They're. thinking about bombing us. That's that's. what Axios wants you to believe. And I'm. not blaming just Axios. It's our. government clearly leaking to Axios.

Axios time and time again has come out. with exclusives. from the US government letting us know. that the Iran war is about to settle. It's over. They've basically reached a. deal. It's being papered now. We're. about to get great news. Did it happen? I I was I was at a tennis. tournament all weekend. Did Did we. settle the Iran war? I don't I feel like. we didn't. Um, so that's unfortunate, but it's also unfortunate for Axios that. it continues to allow itself to be used. in this manner because typically as a. reporter, you have an obligation to your.

audience to maintain a healthy sense of. skepticism, especially when you are. obviously being fed a bunch of. Cuba is not about to attack us. These. are lies. Okay, there we can make we can. have a good faith debate about whether. we want to swoop in and rescue Cuba from. the conditions we've helped impose on. Cuba. Um, and be really cleareyed about. why we've done what we've done and why.

we think they need us. But let's please. do it honestly. Let's not pretend that. Cuba is about to attack us, okay? Like. this is this is an insult to our. intelligence, okay? They they literally. cannot keep the lights on down there as. they're dealing with extreme fuel. shortages because America has cut off. the oil shipments that Cuba relies upon. from Venezuela. All right, the fall of. Venezuela or its leadership was the. death nail to Cuba. When we swooped down. and we got Nicholas Maduro in a daring.

military operation back in January, that. was kind of the end of Cuba which had. been hanging by a thread. And um now. they have no oil and so they have no. power. They have no way of turning on. their lights for some 23 out of the 24. hours of the day. So there there is. Cuba's not contemplating an attack on. America. Stop. Stop. Don't insult our. intelligence. Be honest. Tell us what. we're doing. That's just. whatever. Okay. So are but are we are we.

planning an attack on them? We don't. know. We don't we're not sure. Even. Axios had the thank God like the sense. of self-preservation enough to describe. its own reporting as a possible quote. pretext to US military action. Thank. you. Thank you for that access. It's. like here's a bunch of spoonfed. we've been given. I'm going to put in. one line about what we actually think is. going on here. They're using this as a. pretext to U US US military action so.

that they can then turn around and be. like, "We said it was pretextual, right? You gave your audience absolutely no. context for all the you just. heaped upon them. You just wanted the. exclusive. You want to be patted on the. head by whatever administration official. is giving you these exclusives. You want. clicks. And therefore, you refuse to. actually offer context for your audience. so they are to know what's real and. what's not. Shame on you." Okay? It's. not just Trump's government. All the. governments try to mislead the press.

This is not a new invention. It's the. press's obligation to be skeptical, sniff through it, and protect their. audience, to protect their audience from. You don't have to make an. affirmative determination. It's. But you do have to include the. facts around the information you've been. given so that your audience can make up. its own mind. Um, there is a fair amount of evidence. that we are about to engage in some sort. of military action against Cuba. CIA. Director John Ratcliffe made a visit.

there last Thursday and warned that the. Trump administration would quote. seriously engage with the country's. government, but quote only if it makes. fundamental changes. What does that. mean? Leadership. We want regime change. before we'll swoop in to rescue them. The New York Times also reporting that. Ratcliffe demanded Cuba shut down. China's and Russia's alleged. intelligence posts on the island. Okay,

that that may very well be the case. I. mean, certainly wouldn't be surprised at. all to see these two, you know, socialist and communist nations having. some sort of a foothold on the island of. Cuba, which is communist, uh, that we. don't like some sort of intel post. Though I do think it's curious this is. we we weren't hearing about that. Didn't. hear about that from Trump or others who. are sort of slowly making the case for. some sort of interference in Cuba at. all. This seems to be an 11th hour.

possible justification because it's the. first we're really hearing them mention. Oh, the the intelligence posts from our. two main adversaries, China and Russia. You know, US has got to do something. Can't be a bunch of stooges. There are. more signs of US action against Cuba, too. in in addition to the ones that we. just went through, including reports. that the DOJ is now contemplating. indicting former Cuba leader Raul. Castro. Does this sound familiar? Does. this sound like a playbook you're. familiar with? Obviously, they could use this as.

another justification for a Maduroike. raid to take Castro into custody, even. though he's no longer in power there, but what the hell? Aren't the Castros. always in power in Cuba? Uh, if you. think I'm exaggerating things like maybe. we don't have designs on Cuba, don't. trust me. Listen to President Trump and. what he said himself. >> Cuba is ready to fall. You know, >> yes, >> it's a failed nation. You know, all my. life I've been hearing about the United. States and Cuba. When will the United.

States do it? I do believe I'll be the. honor of having the honor of taking. Cuba. I think I could do anything I want. with it. You want to know the truth? >> Cuba's finished. They have a bad regime. They have very bad and corrupt. leadership. >> and it may be a friendly takeover. It. may not be a friendly takeover. It. wouldn't matter. >> Cuba is a failed nation. Cuba also wants. to make a deal. And I think we will. pretty soon either make a deal or do. whatever we have to do. And so we're.

talking to Cuba, but we're going to do. Iran before Cuba. >> We're going to do Iran before Cuba. And. here's one of the president's favorite. foreign policy surrogates these days, Iran war cheerleader, Senator Lindsey. Graham, speaking about Cuba. Watch. >> Cuba's next. They're going to fall. This. communist dictatorship in Cuba, their. days are numbered. Cuba is on death. watch. It's just a matter of time, and I. mean a short time. To the people of.

Cuba, help is on the way. You just wait. for Cuba. Their days are numbered. You. see this hat? Free Cuba. Stay tuned. The. liberation of Cuba is upon us. It's just. a matter of time now. You see this at. Make Iran great. We're marching through. the world. We're cleaning out the bad. guys. This is Ronald Reagan. Plus, Iran. is going down and Cuba is next. >> Marching through the world and cleaning. out the bad guys. I mean, we're we're.

going to be really busy. Be super busy. There's a lot of bad guys out there. Just how many of them are we going to. get rid of? and um with what money. Joining me now for reaction is Ryan. Grim, co-host of Breaking Points, who. recently [music] visited Cuba, along. with Kurt Mills, who's executive. director of The American [music]. Conservative. Don't miss a moment. Subscribe to this. show on YouTube and follow me on Insta, Facebook, and X. Our sponsor, the. Electronic Payments Coalition, says. Washington politicians are always.

getting in your wallet and that now. they're messing with your credit card. They say your credit card and the. security it offers are under attack and. that Senators Dick Durban and Roger. Marshall want to change the nation's. payment system to benefit corporate mega. stores like Walmart and Target at the. expense of everyday Americans. Credit. cards can keep your payments secure and. provide rewards that families use to. help make everyday purchases more. affordable. The Electronic Payments. Coalition says the Durban Marshall. mandates would let corporate mega stores.

cut corners on credit card processing, routing transactions over cheaper, untested networks with weaker security. and fewer protections. Find out more at. guardyoucard.com. and consider telling Congress to guard. your card. Ryan Kurt, welcome. [music]. Great to see you both. So Ryan, I'll. start with you. As somebody who was just. recently down there, your thoughts on um. the liberation of Cuba, as Senator. Graham put it. >> Yeah, your your description is accurate. Not and not only did uh we cut off.

Venezuelan oil from getting uh to Cuba. Trump also basically told every other. country that they were not allowed to. send any oil to Cuba. They told me. Mexico and couldn't send oil for Cuba to. purchase. We're not talking about like. charitable oil tankers that were just. going to Havana. We're talking about. commercial transactions that the Cuban. government had already entered into. There was one tanker uh that Russia sent. to Cuba and as it got close kind of.

under pressure, Trump said, "Okay, this. this one can get through." So, in 5. months or so, you know, one shipment of. oil has gotten to Cuba. And because it's. been under sanctions for many decades, but very tight sanctions since 2019, which were uh implemented by Trump, but. then extended by Biden, their uh. electrical grid is trash. Like they have. they haven't been able to get the. equipment uh because they're under. sanctions to upgrade that grid. And so. even as they've actually pretty rapidly.

accelerated to uh clean energy, I think. they're at 20% renewable because they're. they they they understood like, oh, we're on an island and they're. increasingly going to choke off our. access to oil from uh from offshore, so. we need to ramp this up. With the grid. in in such disrepair, uh they have. consistent um as you said, blackouts. across the entire island. And so the. idea that they're going to launch some. preemptive attack on the United States. of America is yeah, it's barely even an.

insult to our intelligence. It almost. doesn't even ride rise to that level. >> It's it's so insulting. It's fine. The. American people people can make up their. minds about whether they're in favor of. this or not. It's not the same situation. as Iran. It's got a whole other. different list of issues around it. Um. but don't lie to us and tell us they. were about to accuse attack us. I mean, that's it's a joke, Kurt, to suggest. that Cuba lying lying there in the dark. watching its elderly and its babies die.

on ventilators that they can no longer. power is like, hm, how can we how can we. attack the world's greatest superpower. that in like 24 hours put every Iranian. ship at the bottom of the ocean? That's. that is not a thing that's happening. No. >> Yeah. I mean, look, I think we've seen. two things here. Number one, we've seen. the sort of intel uh elements of the. intel community and hawkish elements of. the administration leak to the media um. and then never apologize when they issue. a correction. We saw this with the. so-called Taliban bounty story in 2020.

Um so I have no idea about the veracity. of this. It's very possible that one. colonel and some part of the Cuban. military is plotting, you know, something. It doesn't mean there's. actually a plan. And then secondly, um. you know, it doesn't quite say it in the. report, um but I think there is an. implicit uh uh case building to link uh. Cuba to Iran because of course, who is. the world's probably preeminent. manufacturer of drones at this point? Of. course, the Iranian Shahed drones. So. there's going to be some article, I.

would assume, coming for forthcoming. that says, you know, the Iranians are. somehow going to, you know, get around a. double blockade and ship Shahed drones. to Cuba. is it is the kind of thing that. sort of uh sets the pretext for war. Um. it doesn't really really matter. Um I. think it's pretty clear that Marco Rubio. State Department and elements of the. administration and elements of the Hill. uh Lindsey Graham as you featured there. wanted to take Cuba no matter what. Um. and so there's just a sort of fake. causes belly that's being cooked up.

>> Okay. But here's what I don't. understand. What does it mean to take. Cuba? Like. >> yeah, >> we're going to get it. It's going to be. ours. It's going to be a 51st state. I. mean, Trump Trump's not wrong what he. says. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful. island. He was saying this the other. day, like it's absolutely stunning. It's. gorgeous. People who've been there, Brian, you among them, say that it's. like time travel, you know, because. we've had the embargo on them for so. long that they still got like, >> you know, cars that you'd see on. American streets in like 1959 and the. colorful pastels of the homes and the.

cars and, you know, it's very, very. charming. But it's a mess. It's been a. mess for a long time. We definitely put. a crescendo on the mess with Venezuela. and our embargo. And so, as somebody who. doesn't know that much about Cuba, Ryan, me, >> can you explain like was the old plan to. just drive them to collapse economically. with our embargo, etc., and that they'd. then come begging us for help? Like why. now is it morphed into a as that's. starting to work? Why is it now morphed.

into oh and by the way they're about to. attack us so of course we're going to. have no chance but to attack them and. let's unleash the Maduro plan on them. and like every single thing. It's it's. an interesting question of what it means. to actually uh take Cuba because very. similarly to how the United States and. Israel have different interests when it. comes to Iran kind of Miami Cuban expat. community and the United States have. somewhat different interests when it. comes to Cuba. You know, the US has its.

own interest. They don't like having a. communist government uh in the in the. hemisphere. But the US government has. actually had no better country to. cooperate with on people might not even. realize this when it comes to like drug. interdiction in the in the Caribbean or. you know they actually have a good. relationship when it comes to um. migration and you know deporting uh. Cuban migrants back to Cuba uh what have. you. But when it comes to kind of the. the Miami Cuban set, like they they want. revenge, you know, for the revolution,

uh, and and they want to take back uh. different pieces of property that were. expropriated what, 60, 70 years ago. But. what that looks like when it comes to. governance is anybody's guess. Like, are. we talking about like another another. Haiti here? Because what's interesting. is right now there aren't there aren't. really any guns outside of the military. in Cuba. And so even as the situation. there has descended into, you know, a a.

real real dark moment like people are. genuinely suffering there as as as you. alluded to at the beginning. It isn't it. isn't that violent a place. It's not a. failed state. It and it feels like what. many in South Florida want is just a is. just a failed state. Uh, and there are. tons of guns in the United States, in. Jamaica, in Haiti. It wouldn't be that. difficult in Mexico. It wouldn't be that. difficult for all of a sudden Cuba to be. flooded with weapons. Uh, and then. you've got uh and then you've got a.

complete failed state which then becomes. a hub for narot traffickers. um which uh. has the obvious knock-on effects of you. know hundreds of you know probably. millions of migrants, hundreds of. thousands dying uh many of those dying. violently. Uh there's there's really no. alternative presented for how you know. for like how it's going to be taken and. then I guess run as a colony or. something or a 52nd 53rd state. Uh so it. is it is a really good question and it's. not one uh that's that's remotely being.

discussed. It's like, okay, you think. they're bad. They have 300 drones. Also, do you think Iran at this moment is. exporting drones? If you're Iran and. somebody's got an order for drones, I. think I think you're holding on to those. for the moment. Like, I I I cannot. imagine those are getting out. And. secondly, also in the article, the. article itself says that the US. intelligence community assesses that. Cuba is preparing to counterattack. if the US attacks them,

which is a completely different thing. than the headline and lead says. So even. the own even their own article said like. undercuts the headline. >> So what do I mean? I'm trying to think of the Trump. administration's position here, Kurt, because now that we've got it's almost. like the dog catching the bumper, right? Like we're getting what we wanted that. they're collapsing economically. and they do need help and Trump can't. allow Russia or China to be the help.

Like I I'm with him on all that. Like. it's not good for us to have uh Russia. or China swoop in and take over Cuba. We. absolutely can't have that. So it does. have to be us. But it's almost like we. didn't we didn't either think it through. or we're just not sharing with the. American public what we've thought. through. The plan would be when the. thing we worked to make happen finally. happened, which is the economic. implosion of Cuba. >> Yeah. I mean, this is where I think you. see a breakdown between the Trump.

alliance with the neocons and the hawks. Trump wants one thing, uh, which is. headlines, uh, attention, uh, big moves. Uh, recall the Venezuela episode. Nicholas Maduro, the former president or. I guess he claims to current still be. the president. President at the time, Nicholas Maduro basically gave Trump the. Godfather offer in 2025. He said, "You. could have my country. You can have my. resources." Um, and Trump still abducted. him. Um, and I think that tells you what. Trump wants is the big splashy uh vis of.

a victory. Uh, what the Grahams and. particularly the Rubio of the world uh. want is quite different. they're willing. to partner with him, but they want. ideological change in this country and. or revenge. And I think that's pretty. different. Uh and I think with Cuba, we. may see the Venezuela model kind of. collapse because in Venezuela, Rubio and. Graham actually didn't get everything. they wanted. Uh they replaced Maduro. with Mashado and the regime uh remains. intact. And even for the more. nationalist elements of Trump's. coalition, um, who, you know, uh, claim.

to say we should be kicking China or. Russia out of the region, it's not. entirely clear, particularly with China, that that even happened in Venezuela and. that this would happen here. Now, the. flip side is if they went full boore, um, then I think you could see the. catastrophe. And I think it was pretty. uh telling over the weekend that Robert. Gates, who's a pretty uh careful. establishmentarian type uh in. Washington, he signaled that he thought. there could be a refugee crisis if they. collapse Cuba. I thought that was. actually pretty extraordinary. Uh Gates.

doesn't usually, although he's a. realist, plunge into that type of. rhetoric. And that tells you that. there's probably great disqu about this. operation. Cuba is a lot closer to uh. Venezuela than the United States. And if. something goes wrong, that's our problem. in two seconds. Well, that's an interesting that's a. very interesting political problem if it. happens because traditionally what we've. seen in America is Democrats want open. borders and want as many, you know, immigrants from these southern countries.

coming across the border as possible. Republicans don't, except when it comes. to Cuba. >> Republicans are like, "Oh, actually, increasing Cuban immigration is fine. because they tend to be more. conservative. uh they're more like the. Marco Rubio types who are like sick of. what happened to Cuba, but they're. definitely conservative. They're. culturally conservative and they tend to. vote Republican. And then you get the. Democrats objecting to too much. immigration from Cuba. >> So, it would actually raise a very. interesting political question of who.

what's the position going to be? like. are Republicans going to back a flux of. immigrants or refugees. >> which they've totally been against from. any other country. except now from Cuba, you know, and I. don't know. It's going to force a lot of. people to reevaluate earlier positions. or probably not. Who am I kidding? They. don't care about consistency. Go ahead. >> One one other quick point just because I. don't think this gets discussed enough. One thing I learned while I was in Cuba. talking to interviewing top officials. there is that they are absolutely wide. open to basically whatever the United.

States wants in negotiations. Uh they're. open to, you know, they're they're open. to, you know, talking about political. reforms. They're not going to, you know, uh they're not going to say that they're. going to do it under pressure. But their. argument is if you lift the sanctions, if you normalize relations with us, we. will allow US direct investment. Well, US companies can come in here. Top. officials even said they're they're open. to exploring you. You know, the United. States is upset about nationalized. property. Let's talk about compensation. for that. We like they're they're.

they're wide open to whatever it is that. the that the US is claiming are are its. problems. And what they have. consistently said is when it comes to. political reforms with the with the kind. of boot of sanctions on their neck, there's very little room to maneuver. And if if you can get the kind of threat. of an invasion off of you, then there's. a there's actually a lot more space uh. where the United States could see if if. those were their actual objectives. But. that's where we get back to there being.

kind of twin camps here. Is it the US. that is driving the policy here or is it. this kind of Miami Cuban lobby that has. outsized power? >> This is key. I mean, listen to what Ryan. just said. the nationalist objectives. just like with Venezuela have already. been achieved. Cuba has basically. capitulated. So if that is the goal of. the United States, uh it can already be. done with soft power and you might see. you know for instance take a country. like Vietnam, China rules like that in. their region. Uh they exert sort of.

Death Star influence over the country. but they don't actually invade or. haven't invaded since the 70s. And so. you know what what we don't get that. with that arrangement though is for. Trump you don't get the headline and for. the neocons you don't get the ideology. andor revenge. So it's completely. unattractive to the leading cadre within. the administration right now even though. it satisfies the puditive ideological. objective of the administration. Well, Ryan, when you say that they're. willing to do that, who's they like the.

current Cuban regime? And is it really. effectively still a Castro regime, even. though not not actually a name? >> Yes. The the Cuban government has said, you know, effectively with one voice. that they're that they're wide open to. all to putting all of these things on. the table in discussions um with with. the US. And they say that they say that. on the record. Uh Castro, Raul Castro is. 95. Uh and so if they do go in and. capture him like you know they this. Delta Force is going to have to be very. careful like the 95 that's that's an old.

guy. >> Um he is still influential you know. because he's because of who he is. Um. but so but and so but he he himself is. the one that entered you know his legacy. was actually opening up normalization. with the United States in the in the. 2010s. And so he is he is very much. supportive of of that project like they. they really want to move. >> There was a period under Obama where you.

could travel to Cuba. Beyonce and Jay-Z. did it. >> and then that closed and we and Marco. Rubio was very against that. I remember. that. >> and really he was much more on board. with the no we we shouldn't be doing. anything to help Cuba right now. We. actually are doing a boot on the neck. policy for good. that I mean his strong. belief has been this is a communist. brutal uh regime that should be brought. down. We should do whatever is within. our power to bring them down so that. possibly we can get Cuba to a better. place where its people can live free and.

people who've had to flee could. potentially go back home and is there. any sort of outcome that could look like. that Ryan? Yes, but not one that. involves, you know, I guess, you know, sending in Americans to occupy it. Uh, or kind of empowering the the elements. in Miami that just want revenge like. because then it's then it's going to. lead to just bloodletting and a and a. failed state. But there there is. absolutely a place like right now under. Cuban law, anybody who has, you know,

Cuban descent living in Miami is allowed. to buy property there. like they they. are they are they are they are the they. are trying to open up. It is the United. States that is still I guess you know. simmering about the the Cold War and the. fact they couldn't assassinate Castro. all these different times. It's like it. it really it's no longer rational. It's. like. >> it's really kind of an emotional lashing. out. >> But is isn't it you tell me because I. I'm not an expert on this at all, but. isn't it more isn't it rational because.

the whole point is to cause what's. happening now. We don't want American. investment there. We don't want anything. that's going to make life better in Cuba. yet is we're playing the long game. >> Like so that's an interesting question. So could could we starve the population. of energy such that they reach um. complete collapse and catastrophe? I. think probably yes. Now it's taken. >> it's taken many decades. There are there. are protests that are that are flaring.

up right now. Uh but there there people. are genuinely also directing some of the. out some of their outrage at what is. closest to them which is which is the. government. Also in 2019 Cuba really. opened up the internet a lot and so. Cubans now have access to like Instagram. and things like that and that has. created that you know the gap between. how they're living and what they're. seeing on on social media has created a. lot of resentment. So there's there's. genuine resentment that that you know. Rubio wants to kind of drive the wedge. into. So could you could you eventually.

topple the government by causing enough. suffering among the Cuban population? Possibly. But but then what? Like who. like and to what advantage? As Kurt. said, all of the national goals that the. US has. >> are achievable by the end of this week. in negotiations with them. Anything we. want, we can have it. So what how many. more babies and elderly people and and. not just babies but people who have. diabetes uh who are otherwise healthy. and we be otherwise living normal normal. lives who are going to die so that.

enough people get upset that they topple. the government but then for what to. create a narco state 90 miles from from. Key West maybe like because who does. that like who does that serve like that. serves our security. >> there's no way the Trump administration. is going to let that happen there's I I. would never believe Trump will not let. that happened and we would we will be. there boots on the ground before we're. going to let them turn into this narco. rump state right off of uh Key West. That's how long but how long would we. occupy? It's I mean.

>> I know that now we're back to the dog. catching the bumper and what's the plan. >> and take the deal. >> when when Ryan was talking Kurt it it. sounded to me very familiar to what's. happening in Iran right now where you. know we're really hoping blockading the. Iranian ports is going to hurt the. Iranians so much and the Iranian economy. so much that they cry uncle um let's. we're kind of trying to do the same. thing to them that we've been doing to. Cuba. And in both situations, it sounds like.

certainly in Iran, uh, we had a group of people who were. willing to talk to us across a table. about striking a deal and reportedly was. prepared to give us most of the things. we're now demanding that they give us. We already had them in hand or were. about to have them in hand when we. bombed them. And according to Ryan, the. Cubans were are kind of in the same. position where they're willing to give. us a bunch of things, but is this other. faction going to win out where we just. go hardcore like balls to the wall, hardcore military, you know, blow things.

up so we have total control of them and. but in both situations leading us with. and then what because we're having. trouble like getting kids educated and. repairing roads and keeping inner cities. safe here in America and we really are. not in a position to run Venezuela, Iran, and Cuba. >> Yeah, look, I mean, the parallels are. pretty striking. Um, and the president's. desire uh to launch into foreign affairs.

and do regime change wars where he said. he wouldn't instead of sort of investing. in domestic renewal and the American. heartland. It remains striking. Um, Iran. is obviously a more formidable uh state. than the Cuban state at this point. That. being said, the externalities uh of a of. a Cuban failure again are much closer to. the United States and so you know the. risk is always there as it was with. Venezuela. Um, I think uh fundamentally. you see Trump have basically uh realist.

and uh dovish instincts or at least. that's what he expresses in public and. to the American people with the. occasional out extremely violent. outbursts accepted and but he's always. sort of turning himself or twisting. himself into a pretzel to do something. different than Barack Obama is said to. have done. And then of course he's. always afraid of offending his. constituencies. And so this is where I. think you see the sort of functional. breakdown in Trump's boss tweed style of.

political coalition management. I think. it's very very necessary for Trump to. sell himself as a neobanite. uh or anti-war candidate. I think that's. how he got elected. But but but once in. power he's got to reward all these. different constituencies. Um to an. extent what a Rubio would do as. president I think would potentially be. more honest which is you know I am Cuban. George W. Bush he wouldn't quite say. that. Um but that's the pitch and then.

you know there would be an ideological. brickby brick uh way of doing it. I. think it would be catastrophe. I don't. think it could win. I think it'll be. voted out. Um but Trump by sort of. putting this potion together is actually. potent because uh there is a group of. people that you know hold out hope. against hope that Trump will do. something different. And in fairness I. will say at least at this point maybe. Trump changes his mind. He could always. change his mind and that is uh the. sliver of hope with both the Iranian and. Cuban portfolios. And that is different.

than if Rubio was the president and that. is different than if Bush was the. president. I I really just wish, you know, the. administration would do us the courtesy. on Cuba of what they failed to do on. Iran and make the case. What? Tell me. You know, I'm a lawyer. At heart, I'm. really just a soulless lawyer who wants. to be persuaded with the best effort. Like, put it in front of me. >> and let me make up my own mind instead. of spoon feeding me a bunch of. Go ahead. >> No. You say you want to hear the case.

and then they they tell you they've got. 300 drones. >> pointed at Key West and you're not. satisfied with that. So they, you know, they can't win. >> That's crazy. >> The no case is there's yellow cake in. the. incoherence is the key though because. everybody it's a roar shock test. If. they actually like Trump like went to. Congress and like explained what he. thought, it would it would sound insane. I mean, we can see it on the true. social. And so, like, if he did his Coen. Pal moment, if he did his sort of Dick. Cheney meet the press moment, it. wouldn't make any sense. That's a key.

element here because people see what. they want to see if they want to support. Trump in these endeavors. >> You don't think I feel like, okay, Trump. is not always his most effective. spokesman. Like, he's political. instincts are second to none, but he's. not always his best spokesman. But Marco. Rubio would be like, send Marco, >> but it's different. It's different. No, but he hasn't He's overrated. He hasn't. done that much better. What what is the. first thing that Rubio did on that. Monday after the random? He said that we. did it for Israel. So I mean like the. honesty is actually not politically.

useful for Trump because he has spun up. this scheme politically. Uh and it has. to only he can keep it going frankly. >> Okay. So we've solved nothing. Um but we. are all concerned and I think we have. every right to be. Um, we'll continue to follow it. I don't. think I think this is the beginning of. another major story and not a. resolution. >> It doesn't need to be solved because it. already is solved. Like. >> it's right there for us to take. We just.

have to tell Miami, calm down. Like you. don't run the gun for me. >> Oh god. Um, on that note, talk to you guys soon. Thank you for being here. Up next, up. next, get it. Uh, we've got Mark. Halprin. I'd love to know what you guys. think about Cuba. I mean, it is in our. hemisphere. If you follow the Dawn Row. doctrine, we definitely have to pay. attention to what's happening in Cuba. In this situation, it's a little. different than Venezuela because we're. causing what's happening in Cuba. Um, but now what? Right? That's what what we.

were getting to with the guys. Now, what. is it? Does it become a territory? Does. it become a state? Are we responsible. for it? Do we have to fuel it, fund it, repair it? Who's going to be in charge. when we do that? what what happens to. the existing leaders who are, you know, communist. Um, I don't know. I haven't. heard the case made. I'm definitely not. buying any. We're going to have to go. bomb them because of their 300 drones. Uh, but I would buy the actual truth and. make a smart decision based on it. So,

hopefully we will get that [music] in. the coming days. Uh, okay. Mark Halpern. is here to weigh in next. Hey, thanks for watching today's full. episode. If you're new here, throw us a. subscribe. See what you think. Stay in. touch. There's plenty more goodness. where this one came from. As always, we. really do value your feedback. So, email. me, too. Megan megnanc kelly.com or just. leave a comment down below. I do read. them. I meander over and I scroll. through and I find them very. entertaining and really appreciate the. feedback. But in any event, join the.

community by becoming a subscriber so. you miss nothing. We value your support. We may not always agree on positions, but as you know, I'm very open-minded to. people who disagree with me. That's how. I learn. So, thanks and thanks for. trusting us to always talk about it. openly, honestly, and with provocative. conversations. If your dog is scratching. more than usual, licking their paws, or. shaking their head, it might seem like. normal dog behavior, but it turns out. those can actually be signs that your. dog has allergies. And a lot of those.

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and skin health. Plus, Better Wild uses. clinically studied veterinarian approved. ingredients. Consider giving it a try. Right now, Better Wild is offering you. up to 40% off your order at betterw. wild.com/mk. That's better wild.com/mk. for up to 40% off your order. Go to. better wild.com/mk. Today we are turning to domestic. politics now. The [music] latest on. crucial primaries in the 2026 midterms.

and some brutal new polls for the Trump. administration. Joining me now, Mark. Halprren. He's host of Next Up with Mark. Halprin. It's a podcast as part of our. MK Media podcast network. You can go and. subscribe right now wherever you get. your podcasts for free and on YouTube as. well. Mark, welcome back. Great to see. you. >> Thank you. I want to know if Cuba will. have Democratic or Republican senators. >> I mean, any idea where that one's going? >> I mean, probably Democrat since it's a.

socialist country, but um I just want to. buy a condo. That's my main focus. >> Are we going to invade Cuba? Like. >> I think they're going to settle. >> Not sure what's happening next. >> I think they'll settle. >> What's next up, Mark Albert? >> I think they'll broker a deal. I think. uh there are people in the government. who are ready to uh have some sort of. accord with the United States and give. up their ties to communist regimes and. uh see if their economy can't be saved. by being a satellite associate.

>> Yes. Okay. And don't let anybody call. you a rump state. No one wants to be a. rump state. do whatever is possible to. avoid the rump designation. Totally. agree. Um, okay. So, it there's a lot. happening in the world of politics right. now. Senator Cassidy went down in the. GOP primary, Republican senator from. Louisiana. Very interesting because he'd. been in office 12 years, but he voted. against Trump on the second impeachment, the one that was based on the January. 6th riot. And since then though, like.

Trump hasn't spent the whole time. railing against Cassidy. Um, he was very. annoying. He was the he's the only. senator I've ever asked my audience to. call. I've never said that to my a we. don't really do campaigns on this show, but he was trying to block RFKJ, who we. really thought was important to the. change that we wanted to see in the. health and services department and MA. and he has been. And Kennedy did wind up. doing the right thing on RFKJ and voting.

for him. But then he went on to become a. thorn in the side and kind of a prick. and really thought he was in control. His cross-examinations of RFK have been. annoying. And then he just blocked Casey. Means from becoming the surgeon general, which like the surgeon general, I mean, to be honest, like I love Casey, but. like it's really not that important a. position. It's somewhat important, but. it's not like HHS. So, what did he do? I. mean, was it the impeachment thing? Has. Trump just been lying and wait for him. all this time? >> Yeah. I mean, the president's good at. picking his spots and um went after him.

when he could take him out and send a. message. The president likes he he. forgives people all the time, but. there's some things he can't forgive and. he does understand. No, that's a big. one. >> Yeah. And he does understand the. importance in politics and hard ball. professions of setting examples and. sending signals to folks. And the folks. around him, people like uh Chris Lassida. um and um uh the White House political. director, they're they're uh they're. tough. uh they they take no prisoners. and when they see someone cross them uh.

they write it down in a little book and. when the time comes they go after him. and Cassidy lost his job for one reason. and one reason only Donald Trump. >> Yeah. Well, I mean you hear you know. places like NPR this morning like oh my. god just like Donald Trump's hold on the. party you know after what happened with. those Indiana state lawmakers who. wouldn't change the redistricting rules. and Trump basically offered up his own. slate of people who could replace them. And the Indiana voters were like, "We.

accept." They went with Trump's. preferred uh lawmakers at the state. level because these guys crossed Trump. Trump wouldn't have it. He fought back. in Indiana. He will fight back. It. doesn't like he will he will mess with. an Indiana state representatives race. He will mess with the Senate, US Senate. He will certainly mess with a um uh. House of the House of Congress like as. we're seeing in uh Thomas Massie, Lauren. Boowbert. Trump's getting involved in. that, but they're very upset over NPR. that he's got such a hold on the party. But he has for some time. It's his party.

and there's no evidence of that. weakening, is there? >> Virtually none. Um, again, the voters. get to decide, but Trump gets Donald. Trump gets to tell the voters what he'd. like them to do. And within the confines. of Republican primaries, they generally. do what Donald Trump says. He's almost. never lost. Part of why I think he. hasn't endorsed in the Texas Senate. runoff is because he doesn't want to. blemish his record. uh because if he. tells folks to vote for John Cornin, that may not happen. So, he knows how to. pick his spots and in this case um he.

found a candidate who he thought could. be uh uh Senator Cassidy and he was. right. And I suspect it'll same thing. will happen in Kentucky tomorrow with. Thomas Massie. Uh the president has has. no use for Thomas Massie and and Chris. Lassvita, again, one of the president's. political adviserss is an open book on X. uh for a long time saying that this. guy's got to go and um they know how to. do it. they know how to do politics. I. understand why people might find it um. not um dainty or not uh not to their. liking, particularly NPR, but he but he.

has he's got a hold on the party and he. he uses it when he wants to. >> When you think Trump, you think dainty. >> Exactly. Yeah. But I mean, I don't. remember NPR being upset when Joe. Biden's people called around and. threatened members of Congress who had. to to merit to say that the president. had lost a step or two. You know, this. is what presidents do. They play hard. ball because they didn't run for the. office to be nice to everybody and let. people walk all over them. They they. play hard ball whether it's Donald Trump. or Joe Biden or anybody else I've ever. covered in the job.

>> Well, and Trump's got enough to deal. with with dissenting Democrats. He he. really can't have any defections on team. red. And that's the message he's. sending. Like you defect and you're. going to get it and these guys are in. the business of politics. So, you know, welcome to politics. Now, let's talk. about Massie because that one I think is. a lot more emotional for people. Um, I'm. not sure anybody really cares about. Senator Cassidy to be honest with all. due respect, but I think they do care. about Massie. How much have we heard. about this race?

>> Now, I'll tell you where I am on it. Um, he's a detractor of Trump's for sure. He's been he's dissented on a lot of. Trump's agenda. >> Uh, but I I've been watching and. personally I I have no problem with. that. like, okay, he's allowed to. descent from Trump, but then don't be. surprised when Trump unleashes on you. Don't be surprised when Trump tries to. primary you. Like, that's that's again. politics. But I am somewhat. turned off by the amount of like Apac. money and like the pro-Israel crowd has.

decided to make Thomas Massie suffer. because he's against any foreign. entanglements. I mean, he's really. opposed to virtually every single dollar. um that we spend on foreign aid. He's. not into it. He wants he's an America. only guy, not even an America first. [clears throat] guy. >> And for this, Israel has chosen to make. him suffer or it's like supporters here. in America. >> And I just find it such a turnoff the. amount of money that Miriam Adlesen has. dumped into this race. And so I do think. that there's a faction of.

Republican voters and probably some. Democrat voters too who don't want to. see him go down because we don't want I. don't want Apac controlling our. elections and I don't want Care. controlling our elections. You know, I I. don't want these elections determined on. what's good for Israel or what's good. for Muslims abroad. It should be about. America. So, it's annoying, but I'm not. surprised to see Trump unleashing all. the stops against him because even. before the Israel thing was taking front. and center stage. >> Trump hated him like he's been voting.

against Trump. >> Right. So you're absolutely right that. Massie is different than um Cassidy in. in the respect you said which is there. are people who are passionate about. Massie not just in his district but all. over the country because he has a. certain strand of MAGA who really likes. him who who likes to stand on foreign. interventions who likes what he's done. with Roana on the Epstein stuff. Um so. he's got a big following. Um, but and. and there's you're right that Apac's put. in a lot of money. But I'll say if. Massie loses, it'll be for the same. reason Cassidy lost. Donald Trump, the.

the money that's been put in by. pro-Israel forces, I don't think is. dispositive. I think he'll win or lose. based on what the president and his team. have mobilized. Uh, every every dollar. matters, but there's money on both sides. in this race. And Massiey's got got. support also from people who you you you. wouldn't necessarily want to quote. unquote, as you said, control. But the. control here is to the voters and the. voters get to decide if Massie gets. reelected or not. And again, I think if. he loses, and I think he probably will, it's almost entirely because Donald.

Trump wills it to be so. And the party. follows Donald Trump on most everything. >> He's making the case that it is the. Israel money. Uh this is what he said to. ABC's this week, yesterday, ST 10. Well, you and you've actually said this week. that this that your vote is a referendum. on whether Israel gets to buy seats in. Congress. What did you mean by that? >> Well, the RJC, Apac, and Miriam Adlesen. and Paul Singer, they're all part of the.

Israeli lobby, and that's where all the. money comes from. And it it will be a. referendum on foreign policy, whether. Israel gets to dictate that by, you. know, bullying members of Congress. and. I'm the one they haven't been able to. bully. So, they're putting all the brunt. force on me. But you can tell that I'm. ahead in the polls and they're. desperate. That's why they're sending. the Secretary of War to my district. tomorrow. That's why the president's. losing sleep and tweeting about this. That's why Apac has dumped another $3.

million into my race this weekend. It's. because they're panicked and they really. haven't been able to gain a lead in this. race. >> Is he wrong, Mark? Well, it's hard to. know. I mean, Bill Cassidy on the. morning of his primary was confidently. predicting he would win and he didn't. make the runoff. So, I'm not sure we can. credit him for knowing that he's he's. definitely going to win. Um, it's it's. certainly the race is either close or up. in the air enough that of course both. sides are going to work hard at the end. and put in more money. Um, so I don't I.

don't know that I don't know that he's. right about the reasons why they're. doing it. They're doing it because they. want to make sure that they beat him in. terms of in terms of who's controlling. it. Again, the president did this. This. is the president's doing. But no doubt. that people who want a more pro-Israel. policy uh are spending big money in the. race. And that is a rallying cry now. It's it's talked about a lot, but I. still don't think talked about enough or. fully understood uh both on the left and. the right in this country. Now, going.

after Apac, going after people who. support Israel uh with a lot of uh a lot. of energy um is popular in a lot of. parts of the country. And you're going. to see more of this in in the midterms. in primaries in the general election. And you're going to see more of it in. the 2028 race because this is for many. Americans. They want a they want a big. change in what was a national consensus. for a long period of time over support. for Israel. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think you have Israel to. thank for that. Here's what uh Thomas. Massie told Tucker on Apac's influence.

in our US politics when he went on his. show. It's been on a few times. This is. this was from June 7th, 2024. Well, I have Republicans who come to me. on the floor and say, "I wish I could. vote with you today. Yours is the right. vote, but I would just take too much. flack back home." And I have Republicans. who come to me and say, "That's wrong. what Apac is doing to you. Let me talk. to my Apac person." By the way, everybody but me has an Apac person.

Like, >> what's that mean, an Apac person? >> It's like your babysitter. your Apac. babysitter who uh is always talking to. you for Apac. They're probably a. constituent in your district, but they. are, you know, firmly embedded in Apac. And every member has something like. this. >> Every I don't know how it works on the. Democrat side. Um but that's how it. works on the Republican side. And when. they and when they come to DC, you go. have lunch with them and they've got.

your cell number and you have. conversations with them. So, I've had. like that's absolutely crazy. >> I've had four members of Congress say, "I'll talk to my Apac person." And like. it's literally what we call them, my AP. pack guy. I'll talk to my APEC guy and. see if I can get them to, you know, dial. those ads back. >> Why have I never heard this before? >> It doesn't benefit anybody. Why Why. would they want to tell their. constituents that they've basically got. a buddy system with somebody who's.

representing a foreign country? Does. anyone have a Putin guy that they talk. to? >> Not only do they not have a Putin guy, [laughter] look, they don't they don't. have a Britain guy. They don't have an. Australian guy. They, you know, they. don't have a Germany dude. Like, it's the only country that does this. So Mark, to me my takeaway in watching. that is, you know, all the time I was at. Fox 14 years plus absolutely zero.

downside in Republicans saying that they. are walking in lock step with Israel. It. was like nothing but good things can. come from saying that back Israel 100%. only in the past couple of years since. Israel, you know, first defended itself. in Gaza and then just went to the point. where many people were using the term. genocide and completely leveled Gaza and. now it's leveling Beirut. Have they. become far more controversial even in. Republican politics to the point where. Republicans under 50 don't support them?

So, does the Apac guy continue on team. GOP or are we going to start to see. whether it's at Massiey's battle. tomorrow or the the actual midterms in. November forward a change in all that? >> Well, they they've already suffered some. losses uh in both parties uh over the. last few years and in Democratic. primaries. They've not always gotten. their way and sometimes they've. completely bollocked it up and helped. someone who was even more anti-Israel. win a primary. So, they're re-evaluating.

how they do business, but they're up. against a force bigger than just a bunch. of Washington meetings and conference. calls. They're up against a force of of. scrutiny of Israel's conduct that again. on the left and on the right has led to. a really concerted effort to say. anything APEC does is bad. No longer, you know, should it be evaluated on the. merits, anything they do is bad. And and. they they went for a long time as one of. the most arrogant and entitled lobbies. in Washington. And they're paying a. price for that now along with the strong.

feelings about Israel's behavior. And. supporters of Israel are at a loss to. know what to do. They're constantly. strategizing, but they're up against. some really, really powerful forces. that, as I said, a bunch of meetings. aren't going to solve. >> Yeah. [music] All right, Mark, stand by. We will be right back. Mark stays with. us. Uh, quick break first. Don't go. away. Ever been in a bad relationship? You know, the kind it just wears you. down. You settle in even though deep. down you know this is not how it's. supposed to be. That's what daily aches.

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seeing a potential more than ever for. the Senate to go blue in these midterms. But since then, we've had redistricting. wins on team red. And I don't think the. momentum's changed exactly. The polls. are still very bad for Republicans, especially for Trump. But has anything. changed your mind? How are you looking. at the midterms as of today? >> Well, in terms of the Senate, it's still. race by race, but if it were today, the.

Republicans would lose the Senate. because the polls, as you've said a. couple times, are just a disaster. So, a. lot of these races would fall to the. Democrats. But with a little. stabilization, uh I think it still goes. back to a big challenge for Democrats. because they have to basically run the. table, hold three races, win three, and. then win one more. Uh and right now, you. know, I I look at Michigan where. Democrats are poised to nominate someone. who I think is basically unelectable in. Maine where I think in the end Platner. will prove to be unelectable, unless I'm.

just really misreading the main. electorate. And if those two go. Republican, one one would be a. Republican hold and one would be a. Republican win, then then De Republicans. will hold the Senate. But the. environment has to change for that to. happen, but it could. On the Republican. side, redistricting has made it less. likely Democrats take majority. Uh but. they're still favored, too. And we'll. have to see how many races end up. actually being competitive. But. Republicans have to fix Yeah. in the. House. Republicans have to fix this. environment problem. The president's. approval rating, how people feel about.

the economy, the price of gas. If they. don't fix that, it doesn't matter how. much money they raise or how unpopular. Democrats are, then they'll lose control. of both chambers. >> Because even though they've gained some. 14 seats in the redistricting, you know, you could be looking at, if you look at. 2018, Republicans lost 40. >> House seats, like if the margins are. that big and the approvals are that low, >> no redistricting is going to save them. So, they actually have to start. addressing some of the concerns of the. voters. This just in, we've got a couple.

of polls. None of them is good news for. the Republicans, unfortunately. But, um, here's one from, let's see, uh, pulling it up. Brand new New York Times poll. Dan. Feifer of team Obama. biased but says for what it's worth this. poll points toward a shellacking for the. GOP driven by Trump's putrid polls and. unpopular war with Iran and anger about. his economic policies but the reality in.

the cross tabs he writes is even worse. and here's why and he goes through look. he says he has an overall approval. rating of 38% but he says it's what h. what is happening with the voters who. won him the 2024 election that is making. this particular Democrat happy. With. Latino voters, uh, he's underwater. 51 points. With voters aged 18 to 29, young voters,

he's underwater 57 points. With. independents, he's underwater 43 points. So, in other words, that's the. difference between his approval and. disapproval. The disapproval is much. higher. And those were votes that helped. deliver him the White House mark. We've. seen this now in poll after poll. We've. even seen us seen this with the white. working class. Um that's in a new poll. today showing the white working class. In yet another poll is now showing an.

overall disapproval of President Trump. The uh this is CBS poll in February of. 2025. Trump with that group, white work, white. white non-ol voters, he had an approval. rating of 68% and disapproval of 32%. So. he was plus 36 with them. In May, this. this month he has an approval rating. with this group of 46. Disapproval now. of 54. He's now underwater eight with.

them. eight, which is a 44 point swing. to the negative for Trump with the white. working class, which is without a doubt. Trump's base. >> You know, one of the things I think so. important in if you want to be on the. national town square is to not hide from. the truth. If you're a huge Trump. supporter and you think in general the. polls are fake news, you should wise up. because the the the results you just. read of one poll match private. Republican polling almost exactly in.

almost every case. Every poll is a. little bit different, but the general. numbers are the same. And that's why. again Republicans say we got to fix the. environment. We got to get our folks who. supported Trump in 2024. uh to feel better about the economy in. particular. until and unless that. happens, this will be a big wipeout. But. there's a lot of time and if if. Democrats uh if Republicans can get. things people feeling a little bit. better, then they can execute their. plan, which is to say to folks, don't.

make this a referendum on Donald Trump. Make it a choice between two sides. And. you know, the Democratic brand is is as. popular as a as a rat at a picnic. They're just not uh right now being held. account [laughter] being held. accountable for that because um because. there so much focus as is always the. case is on the incumbent and people's. very sour mood about the economy. >> Yeah. Yes. Um if you staying with the. CBS poll, listen to this. Is your income. keeping up with inflation? Yes, it is.

23%. No, it isn't. 77%. 77% of the electorate says their income. is not keeping up with inflation. That's. >> dire. >> Uh gas prices have been a financial. hardship and difficult and inconvenience. but not difficult or your finances have. not been affected. 59% say a hardship. and difficult. That's 60% of people. basically saying. >> no it's been very tough for me.

>> Yeah. >> Only 26% say inconvenient but not. difficult. and only 15 say not affected. It's not an issue for me. Um, this is. interesting. Are you getting a clear. understanding of the situation in the in. the straight of Hormuz? 69% say I have. no clue what's happening in the. street. I do not know. The answer is no. Only 31% say yes. Um, let's see. How do you feel about the. Trump administration's approach to the. economy? You've got I got to do math.

here. 40 70%. say they're either frustrated or angry. How do you feel about Trump's approach. to the economy? 70%. I am frustrated or. I'm angry. Only. 30% say they're enthusiastic or. satisfied. Breaking down to 11%. enthusiastic, 19% satisfied. And the. inflation numbers are the worst of all. Like whenever you start asking the. electorate at all about inflation, they.

all say that's the number one thing they. hate. And they're blaming Trump at this. point. You know, the old it's Joe Biden. who created it. It's not working, especially because inflation was a lot. lower when Trump took office than it is. right now. So, I don't know, Mark, if. they call you in there, and they could, because everyone respects Mark Halpern's. view on politics and America, what what. do you tell them to do to to turn this. ship around? >> Well, the 11% who aren't bothered by the. president's economic policies, I can.

tell you one thing about them. They all. use great Papon mustard. >> Um, the the people who are doing the. people who who got rich during COVID are. getting rich now. And this is not a. partisan thing. It's not an anti-Trump. thing. It's just a fact of our economy. when things go poorly like during COVID. for the middle class and the working. class, rich people get richer. We've had. it in CO, we're having it now. And. that's that's just the optics of it are. horrible, but the reality of it is. horrible. I think the big problem for. the president before he can move on to.

messaging and talking about the. Democrat's position on trans and other. issues. He's got to end the war. And I. gotta tell you, I've never seen a. situation like this where I don't see. from talking to lots of smart people. every day, I don't see the way out. unless Iran caves in. I don't see the. way out. And and that's a problem. because the clock's ticking towards the. midterms. >> That's not good. >> No, >> I agree with you, but it's I was hoping. you were going to deliver different news. because.

>> there it is. It's become like they're. in intrigent and they're not. >> they're not buckling. >> Trump keeps saying it. It's like please. stop. Okay, just please just stop. Stop. stop. Like it's like the Cuba thing. Like we can handle the truth. We can see. it's very tricky, very difficult. It's. it there's no point in undermining the. value of your own word because we do. need to trust our president by. continuously telling us they've caved, we've won, and it's over. when here we.

are weeks and months later, they haven't. caved. We haven't won. It's not over. We. would love for those things to be true, >> right? >> Um, >> well said. >> I don't know, Mark. I mean, what what do. you think? Have you heard anything about. how they feel internally in at the White. House and the Pentagon about the Iran. problem? >> Right. So, there's two uh areas that the. hopeful people site. One is the thing. the president and Scott Besson have been. talking about for weeks that Iran's. going to run out of storage capacity for. its oil and that that will cause them to.

cry uncle because at that point they're. not making money selling oil and they'll. have to shut down their oil facilities. and if you shut them down it's virtually. impossible to start them back up with. their great expense. That hasn't. happened yet but the president and Scott. Besson have been promising it for a. while. Maybe that'll happen. The other. is Iran has made a counter offer. It. still falls far short. The. administration says what would be. acceptable. But the optimistic. administration say this shows Iran knows. it's losing. Iran knows it needs to make. a deal. Uh other people in the.

administration say this shows Iran is. still playing games and that they'll. just try to run out the clock towards. the midterms by coming back with. incrementally quote unquote better. offers. Um, I I'm I'm deeply concerned. uh from talking to folks about the. prospect of more military force used by. the United States because of the. capacity Iran seems to have, may have to. hit other civilian and and and energy. and uh health targets in Israel and in.

the Middle East in the the Gulf States. So again, I I've covered a lot of. presidents and a lot of sticky wickets, a lot of pickles, a lot of problems, a. lot of challenges. I've never seen one. like this because he can't walk. People. say, "Oh, just declare a victory and go. home." The straight would still be. closed. They can't they can't walk away. They can't say, "Well, we destroyed the. nuclear program." Because they have to. open. >> it though. Can I ask this? >> Won't China step in to open it? Like I. know it's not their problem they didn't.

create this, but like they they don't. want the straight closed and they're. friends. So don't they have a better a. higher likelihood of getting the. straight open than we do? >> Well, I think my just from observation. and reporting in the short term, I think. China's fine with the straight being. closed because it embarrasses the United. States. The president may say Mr. Xi is. a great friend of his, but I think China. loves seeing the United States uh. brought to its knees to some extent by. another another country. Um, and then. and again, I I always want to make.

clear, I'm rooting for the United. States. I hope the president figures. this out. I hope the Iranian people get. regime change, but we can't put our head. in the sand and ignore what we see right. in front of us. >> I think the Chinese can work it out. >> We're going to get regime change if. we're not careful. >> I think the Chinese uh will figure out a. way to get oil. They're already figuring. out some ways to get it. The president's. going to sell him some. and they could. the Iranians could say we'll open the. straight to Chinese oil but not to not. to other other countries and oil going. to China and and if the United States.

tries to blockade it uh there could be a. confrontation. So in the long term yes. China can't go forever with the straight. being closed but I suspect they can go. through the midterms with the straight. being closed. >> How do we think that the meeting with. the Chinese president went last week? I. thought it was amazing. In no in nothing. I read, no no newspaper article, no. evening news report did they talk about. the two leaders digging in on AI and the.

threat it poses to all of our children. to to our future, to our kids' future. forget the existential threat of like. the AI becomes super intelligent and. drops a bomb on us pesky humans, which. actually is a risk that's being. seriously flagged by AI experts. But. let's just check that for now because we. mere mortals can't quite understand that. one. Um. the elimination of all of our children's. livelihoods like. >> every white collar job in America and a.

lot of the blueco collar ones too. >> didn't even seem to come up Mark. So who. who's mining that shop? >> Well I think our boys need to go into. the HVAC business because I don't think. AI can replace that. So. >> get them get them off the co get them. off the college track. Get them into. trade school. >> Um. >> I think there'll still be jobs in. journalism. Yeah, I do too. >> Not many, but some. >> probably some. Um, well, on our side, there are lots of people, David Sachs, Scott Bess, and others are very on top.

of this. The problem is the Chinese. don't seem to have anybody who wants to. take the lead negotiating. It was. discussed. Remember, they have three. more meetings. Part of why I think this. meeting was for many kind of. anticlimactic and and uh and is that all. there is uh reaction to it is they have. three more meetings in the next 6. months. And so, I think this was meant. to be kind of phase one. If the goal of. the summit was to make she feel like his. country is equal to the United States, I. think the president pulled that off over. the week. Over the weekend, they.

announced a few other things. I'm. amazed. You talk about the. transformation we did earlier in how. Americans think about Israel. The change. in China uh is quite something because. Donald Trump is going over there and. saying what a great guy she is and how. wonderful China is. I don't think you. could have gotten away with that five. years ago, six years ago. In fact, Donald Trump ran for president in 2016. saying very different things about. China. Um, but if the goal was to get. >> they didn't say it about us. >> No, no, it was totally they didn't say. it about him.

>> It was totally unequal and the president. said it repeatedly. So, I think that. again there's no other conclusion one. can draw, but that that was one of the. primary goals to give she what he. wanted, which is to feel that the United. States treats him like an equal. The. problem is I don't think she gives. anything back in return. He negotiates. over what's mine is mine and what your. yours will negotiate over. And he wants. he wants what he wants and and I don't. think praising him. He's a very shrewd. guy. I don't think praising him impacts. him. It makes him feel good because he.

can sell to his own people that well the. United States treats us as an equal. But. in terms of actually changing his. behavior on controversial areas, I don't. see it. And the two countries must. cooperate on AI because they're the two. international leaders on the matter. and. and every every one of our children is. impacted unless the government can get. this right. >> So, two things. One, everything you just. said is exactly right and applies to. what Trump has done with Putin, too. He. >> he thinks because he can be, you know,

manipulated by flattery that that'll. work on others. And it clearly it's. served Trump well in politics and in. real estate, but it's not working when. it comes to international diplomacy at. all. It it's it failed with Putin who we. also put on an equal scale to us when he. came over and Trump met him at the. airport. Did the Chinese president meet. Trump at the airport? He did not. He. sent the number two guy. Uh we went to. him and we flattered him. We said all. these nice things about him, about. China. Did he say any of those things.

about Trump or the United States? Not at. all. So it's just it's not working. Trump calculates that this thing that he. has used effectively will work and it's. it's not. That particular thing is not. working. Um, I'm going to show you. something somewhat profane but very. entertaining from Tim Dylan about how he. views the United States and China, having watched the news out of that. summit. Uh, brace yourself. Here we go. This is very clear that there's no. option. We're not telling China to.

off. We're done with that. Let me help. everybody. We're done with that. We're. not the high school bully anymore. We're. not. We're the weird kid who may have a. gun. [laughter]. We are not the high school bully. anymore. We're the weird kid that may. have a gun. and is not hot but is not terribly ugly. Like, you might them. That's who we. are. We're the weird kid that knows how.

to get drugs, who may have a gun, and. you could see yourself We're. not the bully. We are not the jock. We. are not the quarterback. The the. American quarterback century is over. This is not Top Gun. We are not Tom. Cruz. You need to wake the up. There's a new Chinese kid in school and. he's kind of Americanl looking. He's. kind of ripped, but he's also Chinese. and he's hot and people want to. him. [laughter]. >> It's an imperfect metaphor. Megan.

>> Imperfect. >> So funny. Is he wrong? I don't know. [laughter]. I mean, >> he's persuading me. >> He's partially wrong. I mean, we still. have a lot of uh advantages over China. The problem is they're they're an evil. empire and and I've said for a long. time, the goal, the job of the American. president on foreign policy and national. security is to figure out how to get. leverage over China, Russia, and Iran. And as you said about China and Russia, it's also true about Iran. Remember for. a while the president was saying, "Oh,

the Iranians are such good negotiators. uh you know they're they're the the new. the new group is reasonable. Um these. these three these three regimes are just. interested in pocketing wins over the. United States. Uh they're not interested. in helping Donald Trump out of the mess. he's in. So again, I hope he can figure. it out. I hope he can end both wars. I. hope he can topple the Iranian regime. I. hope he can uh uh uh get every advantage. over China on economics and national. security. But right now, it looks to be.

playing a hand that involves flattery as. a way to get leverage over these three. governments. And I just don't see an. evidence of it. >> No, you're right, too. Yeah, the Iranian. example is a good one. It's worked a. little better with North Korea. >> Yeah. Yes, it has. >> You know, as Trump said the other day, he goes, "They're quiet.". >> Uh, so that's good. That's one we can. put in his although they still have. missiles and nukes, so it's not it's not. over. It's just they're they're not. rattling sabers immediately.

We'll take quiet. That's great. That. That's a win. It's a win temporarily. Um. >> Okay. Spencer Pratt remains in the. headlines. And now there's a question. about whether Trump is going to endorse. him. Reportedly, the White House is. considering it. Since it's California. and LA, you do have to ask the question, would that be helpful? Right? It's like, uh, not sure. I'm sure they're weighing. that. They they're aware of that. dynamic, too. I want to show you. something. he just released because he's.

been doing such a good job at the ad. game, you know, whether it's him or his. surrogates or he retweets something that. somebody did via AI, but he's clearly. got a good eye for communication. What. works, what doesn't. Here's his latest. ad he just released uh with a Fresh. Prince of Bair theme. [music] Now, this is a story all about. how my life got turned upside down and. [music] I had to take a minute to run. for mayor. I'll tell you how I became. the prince of a town called Bair.

in West Los [music] Angeles. Palisades. in my backyard is where I spent most of. my days. Feeding hummingbirds, relaxing. all [music] cool, avoiding all the bums. outside of the school. When a couple. politicians, the world to no good, started making trouble in my. neighborhood. I got in one little fire. My mom got scared and said, "YOU'RE. MOVING IN WITH HARVEY Leven in Belair.

I pulled out from my lot about seven or. [music] eight and I yelled to the. rubble, "Yo ho, smell you later." I. moved to my kingdom. I was finally there. to sit on my throne as a prince of Bair. He's in his trailer in Belair at the. end. For the listening audience, it's. very clever given that whether he.

actually lives in his trailer on the. spot where his house burned was all over. the news last week. Harvey Levan. actually cross-examined him on TMZ. saying, "Isn't it true that you're at. the Hotel Bair? you're not in your. trailer on your lot and so you've moved. to Bair, this snoody community. And he. just kept saying, "My home is still a. burned lot where my trailer is. I've. been getting death threats." So, yeah,

we we're in a hotel now, but my home is. burned and where it always was. And they. just kept having this sort of. meaningless back and forth. So, there. seems to be a jab at Harvey Leven in a. clever, I think, new ad. What do you. think, Mark? Well, a lot of focus on. whether he'll win and a lot of focus on. the ads and the ads are spectacular and. and they teach a lot about what. effective communication is in politics. and in general. To me, the biggest issue. here whether he wins or loses and I. think he has a good chance to win. I. predicted a little bit tongue and cheek.

that I think he would that he will win. but I don't feel strongly about it but I. think he could. The biggest issue is we. have let down families and children in. big cities around the country for. decades now. almost all run by. Democrats. The case of of of the mayor. of of LA, Karen Bass, is an extreme one. because she also allowed the fires to. burn down. But separate from that, drugs, crime, failing schools, all the. things that exist in in in our big. cities um run by Democrats and the.

Republican party. I say all the time, the only thing bigger failure than the. Democratic governance in the cities is. the failure of Republicans to win these. races by saying, "Are you sick of the. failure? Let's try something different. This guy is may not be an orthodox. candidate, but like Donald Trump, I. think that's what's given him a chance. He's highlighting the failures of. governance. That's what this should be. about. All these families I live in a. big city. You used to all these families. and children who are who are failed who. have been who have been failed by failed.

governance deserve a competition of. ideas. And although he's not been very. specific what his solutions are in most. cases, he's been very effective and and. on point in criticizing critiquing the. failure of governance by Democrats in. Los Angeles. So whether he wins or not, I hope every conservative in the country. who lives in a big city or cares about a. big city learns from him to say not just. make cute effective funny ads, but point. out the failure and offer something. better because again our big cities need.

to be saved. >> No. As they say in AA, the first step is. admitting you have a problem. >> And. >> how can you reelect Karen Bass who. doesn't admit she has a problem or her, you know, other Democrat running mate. who they they seem to think, oh, whatever problems there are have nothing. to do with the real problems. They won't. identify the actual problems that. they've helped create. So, yeah, makes. sense to me. Speaking of Harvey Lean, >> he had an extraordinary moment in he.

does a podcast once a week. Is it with. Garagos? I think it's with Gyaragos. Yeah, it's with our friend M. Mark. Geragos, who we love. And um really kind. of let the guard down. Like Harvey, I. don't really know Harvey's politics to. be honest, but he seems more leftleaning. to me. He's been very Trump skeptical. Um he definitely gave Spencer Pratt the. business last week over that trailer. But then there was this remarkable. moment in the podcast he does with. Garagos. Listen to SAT 18. Not I'm not.

only a uh born and raised Los Angelino, but I'm second generation. My dad was. born and raised in LA. And so this is my. life. And I have seen this city just. fall apart. You know, over the last, I. don't know, eight, nine years, but. especially the last four years that, you. know, the homeless problem is out of. control in this city. I've been chased. by people. a guy with a hammer uh. walking out of my gym. He chased me with. a hammer. Um I had a mentally ill woman,

a homeless woman take a a um a boulder. and trash my car and I caught her doing. it and I realized there is nothing I can. do. What am I going to do? Get her. arrested? I mean, what is that going to. do? Am I going to sue her? So, I. literally looked at my car, watched her. walk away, and said, "I live in Los. Angeles." And you know, the fires have. been an absolute outrage in this city. This city operated in an appalling way. during the fires. I've got a friend, his. name is Dan Brun. He's an amazing.

architect. He put together a plan with a. hundred architects to offer their. services free of charge to rebuild. Aladena and Pacific Palisades. I. actually contacted Gavin Newsome. They. were all in and they brought it down to. the city which they had to do and it. died a slow death in the city of Los. Angeles. So this city is not working. H really powerful stuff. What do you. make of it? >> Sounds like every one of my liberal. friends who lives in LA, this is why I. think Spencer Pratt might win because.

because that point of view, if you own a. home and or have kids and you live in. LA, I don't know how you have any other. point of view. It's manifestly failing. And uh as uh as popular expression goes, insanity definition of insanity is doing. the same thing over and over and. expecting a different result. How could. how could anyone want to consign. themselves to four more years four more. years of Karen Bass's policies? I don't. get it. So, um I I just I listen to that. and it's just it's like my inbox with.

all my liberal LA friends who say to me, I I'm not going to vote for Karen Bass. I don't really love Spencer Pratt. I. think he's kind of a joke. This is them. talking. But they're all voting for. Spencer Pratt. Every one of them. >> Trey, he should pull the Trump line out. What the hell do you have to lose? >> Exactly. >> What Trump said to black voters. >> 100%. >> What do you have to lose? >> Yeah, >> that's what Spencer Pratt needs to say. He's He's got something. There's He's. got the it factor. Y. >> and uh so I agree with you. Don't don't. rule him out just because of these polls.

right now. >> We'll see. Fingers crossed that our. friends in Los Angeles rescue. themselves. Mark Halpern, a pleasure, my. friend. Thank you for being here. >> Great to see you, Megan. Thanks. >> All right. Uh, coming up next, a. first-time guest on this show out with. an important new book [music] on the. dangers of too much therapy. Are you feeling sluggish, bloated, not. quite like yourself? Life constantly. bombards us with silent threats, processed foods, artificial light, non-stop stress, all of which can.

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or just enter that code Megan when. you're checking out. Modern therapy [music]. culture has made its way out of the. therapist's office and seeped into. everyday American life today. It's. everywhere in our politics, our. workplaces, our social media feeds. Well, our next guest wrote the book on. how this happened. He's psychotherapist. Jonathan Alpert and he is the author of. the brand new book Therapy Nation: How. America Got Hooked on Therapy and Why.

It's Left Us More Anxious and Divided. out Tomorrow. Jonathan, welcome to the. show. Great to see you. >> Megan, thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate it. >> Oh, the pleasure is all mine. So, tell. me why you felt it was important to. write this book. Well, like you said, therapy is just everywhere and it really. should stay confined to the therapist. office, but it's not. And uh back in. 2012, I wrote an opinion piece for the. New York Times called In Therapy Forever. Enough already. And in that piece, I.

argued that therapy is actually hurting. people in most cases, not helping. people. And then fast forward to a few. years ago when I started writing Therapy. Nation, and I saw that this is a much. bigger problem than I thought. It's. dividing families. There's estrangement. Uh it's affecting relationships. It's. affecting dating. Uh it's made its way. into politics. Uh so really therapy is. just everywhere. And that's why the book. is called Therapy Nation. It's in many. ways ruining this country. So I thought. it was important to get that message out.

there. >> So it used to be in the country, you. know, stiff upper lip, you know, you're. fine, you're fine. And then we kind of. realized, well, that doesn't work for. everybody. Some people actually do need. to talk about their problems. And we had. more psychotherapists pop up and more. counseling pop up and people started to. use them. And how did we get from that. to everyone is overly therapized and has. got their prescriptions for their.

boundaries, their me time, their safe. spaces to where you can't even talk to. some of these young people because. they're so obsessed with their latest. disorder or how something you've done. has crossed some imaginary line that. they've created in order to foster their. own happiness. >> Well, and you're spot on with that. Everything's a disorder. We have. therapists that are uh pathizing. everything. Had a bad day at work? Well, you must have a toxic work environment. Your boss is a jerk? Well, he must be a. narcissist if he's if he's demanding. Or.

your boyfriend's not acting the way that. you want him to. Well, he must be a. narcissist as well. So, we have. therapists. >> Every one of my friends who has an. ex-boyfriend thinks he's a narcissist. Like, it's very funny. It's a common. theme. >> Well, and it's an overdone theme. And uh. my profession is to blame for that. We. have therapists who are using these. clinical terms so loosely and then it's. migrated and found its way into social. media. So we have uh you know you name. it, your favorite influencers out there.

just spewing absolute nonsense and. labeling everyone as ADHD or toxic or. narcissist or bipolar or borderline. Uh. so it's a huge problem in our in our. society. I have patients that come in to. see me for the first time and they say, "I think I'm bipolar," or, "I think my. girlfriend is borderline." And I said, "Well, why do you think that?" Well, uh, my influencer that I follow, uh, said. that. And they put out these checklists, five signs that you might be ADHD or.

five signs that your boyfriend's a. narcissist. So, again, this starts in my. profession. I have colleagues that are. putting this nonsense out there. How do you It's funny because I've told. the audience many times that I I've had. the same therapist for 14 15 years now. 15 years. And but I So I'm like why does. that work for me? The truth is we don't. really do therapy. He's more like a life. coach. You know, he more gives me. helpful tips for how to think about.

things in a different way. He never asks. me questions about my childhood or my. mother. You know, it's not like that. It's like he's very practical and he's. he likes cognitive behavioral therapy. where you're really just giving somebody. a tool for different ways of looking at. things. For me, that's been very. effective. But often times it is more of. a blame session with these therapists. who want to throw your parents. Like I. have a dear friend who's been through. multiple therapists and like if I had a. nickel for each one that tried to. alienate her from her mother and she.

loves her mother. She actually didn't. seem to have a bunch of problems with. her mother until the therapist started. to create some. >> Yeah, exactly. And Megan, it sounds like. you've got a great therapist and there. should be more therapists like that. But. so many people have come to me and. they've talked about their previous. therapy and how they just sat there and. talked about their putty training days. for for years and years. And if you. think about the time commitment, if. you're going in weekly and spending a. fortune on this, it's a complete utter. waste of time. And I think we don't need.

to look too much further than uh Woody. Allen. He's the poster boy for lifelong. old school psychoanalysis. It simply. does not work. Uh and the the approach. that you mentioned, cognitive behavioral. therapy, is much more about setting. concrete goals and coming up with a plan. to to reach them. And that's the that's. the way that I practice as well. And. that's most effective. that's how you're. going to help with anxiety issues, depression, relationship problems, career performance issues. Uh but to sit.

around and vent with your therapist in. the moment, it feels good. Uh and that's. why people go keep going back for more. But if you're not learning practical. skills or gaining uh true insight or or. tools, then it's a complete waste of. time. >> Yes. Yes. They're doing this to. children, too. Again, we're speaking. with Jonathan Alper and the book is. Therapy Nation: How America Got Hooked. on Therapy and Why It's Left Us More. Anxious and Divided. More anxious. That's they're both addressed the.

division as well. But on the anxiety. front, the children go through this too. The children show up at school and now. the big thing is for these teachers to. make them talk about the worst thing. that's ever happened to them. That's. what the college essays are supposed to. be about. something terrible that. happened to you and just the mere act of. spending all your time thinking about. that or trying to kick off your day at. school talking about that is not. helpful. >> Yeah. No, it's not helpful at all. And.

if we're so focused on all the things. that are wrong with ourselves or. society, how are we possibly going to. move forward? Uh when I work with. people, I want them to tap into their. strengths and what they're good at, not. sit there and talk to me endlessly about. all the things that are problematic in. their life. Let's talk about what's good. and how to build on that. Uh but you're. right, we see it in schools after the. most recent election of of Donald Trump, Georgetown University held emergency. sessions to help their students cope. with the loss. And you know, I have to.

wonder if Camala Harris had won, would. we have seen those same uh faculty and. and therapists uh providing help, mental. health help for th for students? I. highly doubt it. >> Oh yeah. >> But you know, academia is a is a huge. huge problem in our in my profession. I. mean, we have Colombia University that. teaches their grad students a model of. well, you're either oppressed or you're. the oppressor. Uh, I'm sorry. That just.

does not work. You're creating a monster. when you do that. If you're training a. therapist to look at every patient as. either oppressed or or the oppressor, that's not going to move our society to. a healthier place. >> I mean, I think I'm pretty sure this is. years ago when I was on Fox, but I think. it was Columbia Law School, too, that. canceled exams. Um, if you were upset. over was it the Ferguson riot, whatever. like you have upset, you don't have to. take exams because you're too upset, which of course is not how real life. works. When you're an actual lawyer, you.

actually have to go into court and argue. no matter what's happening in the news, no matter what's happening in your. private life. And certainly if if you. cannot function in the face of being. upset, you're not going to make a very. good lawyer. It's a very contentious. profession. like you actually do need to. learn how to function under duress and. when things are on fire around you. But. this that little microcosm could be. expanded to our our society right now. with parents creating the safe spaces.

then the academic environments create. the safe spaces and then they get out. into the world and they think the safe. spaces are an entitlement. >> Yeah. No, we have an accommodation. culture that's running rampant. We have. therapists who are writing notes for. everything. Had a bad day while you need. extra time uh on your test, on your exam. at school. Uh therapists are. accommodating. And you can even extend. this into uh you know other issues where.

therapists will just validate uh. everything. If if a if a young boy. thinks he might be a girl or vice versa, they'll just validate and affirm that. And we've all seen the dangerous path. that that can go down. Uh so it's time. that therapists tap the brakes on all. this and start to teach resilience and. not just cater to every every weakness. or uh fragile aspect that they think. their patient has. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. This is like I just feel.

like parents have totally misunderstood. their job in some ways because when your. kid is home from 0 to 18 or whatever. they're going off to leave you, that's. your opportunity when they have problems. to work with them so that they can learn. how to solve them. you're in the backup. supportive role so that they can learn. that skill as opposed to a chance for. you to exercise your super savvy problem. solving skills for them. It's like at.

some point they're not going to live. with you. At some point they need to do. it on their own. Wouldn't you rather. they practice while still with you while. you can be of help if it falls apart or. while they might want some input but not. somebody else to do it? And it's just. you can I can see lots of people doing. this. They totally misunderstand it and. it's to their child's detriment. It's. actually sad. You also write, as I point. out in the book, Therapy Nation, it's. called by Jonathan Albert, how America. got hooked on therapy and why it's left. us more anxious and divided about the.

division and how, for example, TDS, >> Trump derangement syndrome, is a real. thing and it's like you really are sick. like it this thing could possibly wind. up in the DSM5. It it might actually. have a place to go in there. >> Yeah, Megan, my favorite topic TDS and. uh I did write a piece in the Wall. Street Journal about that and I made it. very clear that this does not exist. right now. It's not in the DSM and I I. can't imagine that we'll ever see it in. the DSM. But the pathology that I'm.

seeing in patients resembles a lot of. other disorders. There's a hyperfixation. on Trump. they can't sleep because. they're they're thinking about Trump. I've even had patients who can't. possibly take a vacation that they'll. say, "Well, how can I take a vacation. knowing that Trump's in office?" So, it's just absolutely ridiculous. I've. seen relationships broken up because of. uh because of Trump. Uh I recall one. person, he posted that iconic photo of.

of Trump getting up after after being. shot in Butler. And then his significant. other uh saw that picture that he posted. and then they went to their their. couple's therapist and the couple's. therapist said, "Well, what are you. going to do about posting that picture? You have to do something about that. You. can't possibly put such a picture up. there." And you know, my patient was. like, "Well, what do you mean? It's just. an iconic photo. I'm not a very. political person. I just happen to like. the photo." And uh the therapist made.

him feel like there was something wrong. with him. So, we have therapists that. are acting as social justice warriors. rather than clinicians. It's absolutely. absurd what's going on. >> TDS seems I mean it seems like a very. very bad affliction truly. Like I I'd. rather I think have OCD. I'd rather have. ticks. I just feel like because once you. have the TDS it ruins and runs your. life. Everything is put through the. prism of Trump. How how does how is.

Trump to blame? What am I going to do. about Trump? And it's very unhealthy to. spend that much time thinking about your. president. >> It is. And you know, just to look at the. other side, I've had plenty of patients. who hated, disliked Joe Biden or Camala. Harris, but they didn't sit up at night. thinking about him. They certainly never. wanted him those people to be killed. And the difference is on the left I have. patients whether they're in their 20s, 50s, 60s, and even older who actually.

want Trump to be killed. And you know, that's just to me sick pathologic. thinking. Uh you should never want a a. president to be shot. And you know, all. you have to do is look at our history. and the unrest that this could cause if. it ever happened. But they're not. looking at it like that. They're just. their hatred towards Trump is so intense. like that they can't see the bigger. picture. >> Is it something about him that's doing. that to them like he's just too.

combative and he's too strong or is it. something about them that's doing that. to them? >> Well, that's a very good question and I. think it's probably both. One of the. things that I think it is they just they. still all these years later just cannot. believe that Trump is the president. Trump the entertainer, Trump the the. businessman, and they question, well, how could someone like that become. president? And they just they don't. understand it. They they just haven't. accepted it. And I've after Trump was. elected the first time, I had patients.

who were telling me they were going to. flee the country, uh withdraw their. investments, the world is ending, the. country's ending. Of course, none of. them left the country. And then that. mentality, those beliefs became. hardened. And then fast forward to the. the second election and it's even worse. because now they want they want Trump. dead. And look, I don't care. Like you. should never hope for the president to. be shot whether it's Biden or Trump or. or any president. And if you look back.

>> what what do you think? I was just going. to say uh just again we're speaking with. Jonathan Alpert. His new book is Therapy. Nation. I I don't understand though, like as somebody who's had multiple. tussles with President Trump when he's. president, when he wasn't, I never got. the TDS. And I look at the people who. get the TDS and it almost seems like. Ebola, you know, like if it strikes, it's really unfortunate. Once you get. it, it's very deadly. It's very tough to.

get rid of it. The secret is not to get. it, but it's not going to strike. everybody. Why? Why are there so many. people out there who can talk about. Donald Trump by saying this is something. he's doing that's good. This is. something I think that's bad and now I'm. going to go on with my life. Here's the. rest of the news, etc. And there are. others who he takes over like Rosie. O'Donnell. [laughter] She blames her. herpes on Donald Trump. She moved out of. the country. Ellen Degenerous moved out.

of the country. like they get a Bruce. Springsteen, Robert Dairo, like it's. taken over their art, their personality, their lives. It's truly it's like what. how can some still function in this. world and and even people like I just. had, you know, some some things I don't. like about him and things I do like. about him. But there's there are people. who really can't stand him who still. don't have TDS. They don't think about. him all the time. They don't make their. life decisions about it. So what is it. like is genuinely do you think these. people are slightly untethered to begin.

with? >> Oh absolutely. Uh you know so many. people on the left they they love to. have a villain. They need someone to. hate. And you know look at Luigi Manion. I mean he's probably the poster boy for. for this grievance culture. But yeah. many people need someone to hate. I. would argue that a lot of people on the. left that are so consumed by Trump, the. figure, maybe they just don't have. enough going on in their life outside of. that. Yes. >> You know, whether it's a career, family,

friends, hobbies, religion, whatever it. is, there are so many things that are. much more important. >> uh than than Trump. And friends and. family should absolutely. uh come before uh before Trump. And. unfortunately, we have we have mental. health experts on national TV. uh saying if you don't like the way that. your friends or family voted, just cut. them out. You don't need to attend their. Thanksgiving dinner. And that's the. advice that we have on shows like MSNBC.

and and the like. Uh they're dividing. our country. That's my subtitle, how. they're dividing this country. And. that's not the advice I would ever give. I would say, look, you should rise above. politics. Like, where do you connect? Uh, if only we could get back to the. days of maybe when Reagan w was in. office. Neighbors could still get along. despite having different uh signs on. their front yard for whether it's Reagan. or or someone else. Uh, but we're not.

We're so so divided. And again, a lot of. this I talk about in in my book, how my. profession is responsible for that. I. actually know therapists who refuse to. treat someone if they voted for Trump. >> Can you Can you imagine. >> Oh my gosh. >> No kidding. Can you imagine going into. the ER. >> uh maybe wearing a MAGA hat and the. doctor turning you down? >> Oh, that's disgusting. I mean, that's. truly a violation of the Hypocratic. oath.

>> Um, again, the book is Therapy Nation. Well worth your time. The author is. Jonathan Alpert, my guest. Now, this. discussion reminds me of this woman we. featured on the show a couple of years. ago. Speaking of the young people, like. signing on to every disorder, which. somehow makes them feel good about. themselves as opposed to bad about. themselves. This was April 2023. It was. in New Mexico. A woman was pulled over. for driving on the wrong side of the. road. She was clearly intoxicated and. accused of such and she played every.

victim card in the book. Look at this. sound bite. have like really bad social anxiety. incess. >> Right back here, please. Miss Perry, am. I. >> Well, I'm non-binary, so. >> Okay. What do you go by? >> Kai. >> How can I refer to you tonight, Kai? >> Okay. Hey, I'm smelling alcohol. >> I know. >> How much have you consumed tonight? >> Like probably three drinks.

>> I need to run you through some tests. right now. Stand facing me, please. But. I just want you to know that I also have. very bad social anxiety. >> You and me both. >> Okay. >> Okay. Any recent head trauma, traumatic. brain injuries, anything I need to know. about? >> Uh mental. Yes. >> Focus on my finger, please. >> I am. You're just like trying to. intimidate me. >> I don't know how I'm trying to do that. This is the test. As you know, as an. indigenous person and there's a bunch of. going around,

[snorts] I'm sorry, but it's just for me. to be on my toes. >> I get you. >> Can you remember that I told you that. [snorts] I'm non-binary? >> Yeah, I'll try my hardest. I'll refer to. you as Kai, right? >> Yes. >> Perfect. I need to know if you have any. injuries or anything that would prevent. you from doing a standard walk or turn. tonight. >> Mental health. Um, >> any physical injuries? >> Mentally? Yeah. >> Can you not call me ma'am, please? >> I'm trying my hardest.

>> Okay. Well, >> okay. >> It means a lot to me. >> I'm trying my hardest. >> I don't feel like it means. >> Okay, we get we get it. She goes on to. say she suffers from generational. trauma. Jonathan Albert, we've got lots. of these people. >> Well, yes. Go to Trader Joe's. Go to. your local coffee shop. They're. everywhere. Um, look, first of all, the. cop was very respectful of her dozens of. disorders, so good for the cop. But. being non-binary, having social anxiety,

being a hot mess, or whatever else she. stated, it uh does not give you uh a. pass on driving drunk. So, >> yes, they'll try anything. Well, I mean, it just puts the lie too to these fake. disorders, as does the book Therapy. Nation. Check it out. How America Got. Hooked on Therapy and Why It's Left Us. More Divided by Jonathan Albert. Thank. you so much. Back tomorrow. >> Thank you so much.