Ep 627 - No-Nog (feat. Joe Alto)

Wow. Wow. Wes. >> Fired up. >> Fired up. >> Joe Alto, how you doing, brother? >> What's up, man? >> Welcome, [ __ ] cast, dude. Joe. Alto, dude, we met online. Um, so we. met. I'll just say it. We We You. messaged me and we linked up based on. not looking at porn. >> Yeah. By the way, I have a raw question. >> Yeah. >> How crazy did you think I was when I. sent you those emails? >> Not that crazy to be fair. Okay. I. didn't think you were that crazy. It's. like um.

>> crazy messages, you just know them when you see them. You know what I mean? Like people when. crazy internet people will hit you with. it's usually kind of scattered. I saw. that and I was like, "Oh [ __ ] it's kind. of sick.". >> Okay. >> So, I wasn't I didn't know. I get crazy. vibes. Usually there's like cuz you. don't see every message, but they'll. usually'll be like 19 messages before. those ones like some in all caps and you. go, "Ah, fuck.". >> Yeah. >> Crazy guy. Yeah. But no, I just saw it. and I was like, damn, that's kind of. sick. >> Okay. >> So, >> and again, just to like, you know, I'm.

sure you've known from listening, but. it's like for me, I I have mixed views. on. the whole well, let's say like the the. approach, the online approach or, you. know, people take into real life of like. you're either a porn consumer or you're. a non- porn consumer. Porn consumer is. very simple. non-por porn consumers kind. of complex because it's like there's. like complete nofap over here which I'm. like that's just impossible. >> Sure. >> You can try it if you want. I find it to. be utterly impossible for myself.

[snorts]. >> Um and then there's like no porn at all. Then there's no masturbation. There's. like hard mode, no fap, soft, you know, all that. I'm sure you're aware of all. that stuff. So I I always for me I. always try to not take a super dogmatic. approach if that makes sense where it's. like if you if you [ __ ] do it you're. done. You're a piece of [ __ ] But but. recognizing that I'm like I really want. to get this out of my life. And I I have. thank God. >> for [sighs] now. But the uh yeah please.

please. But I know I've done a couple um. you know like hotel weekend trips by. myself are the absolute ultimate test. So, I've passed a couple of those, but. yeah. So, what tell me about So, you. have you have an app, right? You work. you work for an app. >> Yeah, I work for an app. It's called. Relay. >> What is it called again? >> Relay. >> Relay. Gotcha. >> Relay Health. Yeah. And it's a porn. addiction recovery app, right? So, [gasps]. >> yeah, the guy started it probably I. think it's been five years now we've. been up and running. >> How many people have used it? >> How many people have used it? I know.

right now we have a there's about 4,000. in the app right now. more than that. have have used it, you know, in the. history of the app, but we have a pretty. good user base and it's mostly guys. >> Yeah. And I will say this too because. you do whenever every time around the. the let's say masturbation porn. discussion whenever you're like anti or. like, "Hey, maybe not the best move.". >> You do get these guys, I'm sure you've. dealt with them, who are like, "Oh yeah, dude. Porn [ __ ] rules. You guys are. being babies." And I just want to state. for the record. >> Totally fair. You can do that if you.

want, but that is the male equivalent to. like when girls are like, "My vibrator. is kind of [ __ ] It's kind of [ __ ]. lame." Be like, "Yeah, like you my. vibrator." It's like, "Okay, like enough. of that.". >> Yeah. No, absolutely. >> Come on. We don't want to hear I want to. bring back my dad used to always be. like, "If you mentioned porn, he'd be. like, "What are you [ __ ] weirdo?". >> Same here. >> The [ __ ] wrong with you? Like it was a. genuine threat. >> No. To this day, my dad is a I I've. asked him bluntly. I go, "Dad, have you. ever. What was like your history with porn?

He's like, "Never done it. I'm a man.". [laughter]. >> Swear. I swear to God, my dad's been. like, "Never jagged off." [laughter]. That's so sick. >> Never looked at porn. >> That's so Well, to be. >> And it's [ __ ] gross cuz he's like, "I. got your mom." And I'm like, "Ew.". [laughter]. >> Oh god. Okay. >> E, >> that's the worst. >> Yeah. No, but that's like the raw like. that's the honest to God what he's told. me. >> Also though, back then there was a. barrier if you wanted porn back then. And I don't know how your My dad's like. in his 70s. >> Yeah, my dad's 65.

>> So if you if you wanted porn, he they. had to like go to like. >> stores and all. But also there was like. a bunch of guys trying to blow you the. whole time if you wanted to get porn. Like it was for real. If you want. >> porn like porn shops. >> was associated with like underground. sexual. >> hedonists. Exactly. That's that's kind. of the deal. Like if you were even. around there, it's like yo, what the. [ __ ] are you. >> dad's gonna suck your dick? >> Yeah. Like. you especially back then they didn't. have sex head like.

>> Yeah. No, mister. >> Yeah. [laughter] Exact. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. No, it was always an adventure. It's an adventure. >> It was different. It was different. I'll. never forget my dad. Um this is like. really bad, but I remember he went to. buy there's this guy who like fixed. lawnmowers and the guy happened he would. sell porn like VHS's all this stuff. He. would sell them on like Craigslist. So. my dad went there to get his lawn mower. out. We'd always be like, "Yeah, right. dude. you're buying porn. He's like, "I. swear to the [ __ ] get the [ __ ] out. I'm. buying [ __ ] porn.". >> But he was there and the guy was like,

"Yo, hold on. I got this guy. He's. buying a bunch of VHS's off me. He's. trying to [ __ ] watch him." He asked. me if he can watch him in my basement. I'm like, "Man, get the [ __ ] out of. here." The dude comes out. It was a dad. from one of the girls in our like grade. school. >> No. >> Like 23 kids in our class. It was a. small Catholic school. And I remember he. like was telling I remember all the dads. laughing. We're at like an eighth grade. dance. >> They're [snorts] all laughing. And I was. like, "What are you guys laughing at?". They're like, "Ah, forget about it. Forget it." And then later he told me. he's like, "Yeah, we saw blah blah. blah's dad [laughter]. >> trying to watch VHS's with the guy who. fixed our lawn mower." And I was like,

"Bam.". >> It's gross. >> But I And again, it's like to your. point, it's um with the app, it's it's. different for us. It's more it's. everywhere. It's we're completely tapped. into it. It's it's a it's a different. thing. We got We were basically all like. >> crack babies with porn, you know, we got. born into this. Um you know, we. [clears throat] kind of hooked in. So, how in terms of the app, what is the. what's like the guiding philosophy? >> Yeah, guiding philosophy would be you. don't have a porn problem, you have a. pain problem. >> A lot of guys have a difficult time even.

understanding what that is. Like it's. it's just difficult. Like maybe you have. some conscious moment where you do. realize that yeah, I'm using this as a. baby blanket. But. >> um that's just also like a very. difficult endeavor to deal with by. yourself. So yeah, it's like you have a. pain problem. you've associated at some. point in your history with porn. You you. start off and it's it's great. It's. innocent. You start looking at it around. whatever 11 11 or 12 years old and you. use it for. >> whatever purposes, right? Like I said,

cuz it's. >> naked chicks. It really does start as. simple as like naked chicks. >> Naked chicks. You're not going to see a. naked chick when you're 12 for quite a. long time, more than likely. >> You shouldn't. You shouldn't. [laughter]. >> You really shouldn't. >> Yeah. Knock on wood. >> Yeah. There was always that one guy. though in like the eighth grade where. you're just like, "Holy [ __ ] like you. did that." And but that's just that one. guy. I was never that guy. No, >> you probably weren't either. >> No, that guy probably also had pubes. when he was like [ __ ] [laughter]. four. So, but yeah, the uh. >> Yeah. No, but so you you start looking. at it when you're young and then at some.

time at some point in your maturation. process as a young man, whatever type of. disappointment that you go through, right, it could be in sports, it can be. with the ladies, it can be with, you. know, get a bad grade, whatever. Really. like simple [ __ ]. >> Yeah. But you just go back. Yeah. You. get an F on your paper and you feel like. [ __ ] and you know porn's going to make. you feel good. So you do it and then you. just unlock this crazy. >> circuitry in your brain that it connects. any type of like you're literally. training yourself. You're like a dog. Like you're training yourself.

>> to associate pain with porn and it gets. unconscious. And then you have all these. like 35-year-old guys who have very. stressful lives, right? Like we all do. Um, and now it's so unconscious. Have a. bad day at work. Maybe it's the muscle. memory of driving home. You get into an. argument with your wife. You notice a. cavity. All the [ __ ] You just go to. porn. >> Porn time. >> Porn. Porn. Porn. Porn. >> Yeah. Well, it's funny, too, cuz it's. like, you know, your parents I remember. like, dude, if we we got caught with. porn a couple times in our house, and.

they'd be like, what the [ __ ] They were. they'd be so mad. Yeah. >> And I remember it being a kid being. like, dude, I wish they'd lax up about. this [ __ ] Like what the [ __ ] is their. problem? Cuz as a kid you're going like. no guys this [ __ ] [ __ ] rules. Like I. don't think you guys understand. Like. this is the best. >> But you'd have it we had I grew up it. was like there was uh. >> literally like 16 kids on the. properties. Me and my cousin's families. right next to each other and like a VHS. would come someone would get one and it. would [ __ ] cycle through and everyone. would be like I remember being like I.

remember knowing there was a VHS across. the street at my cousin's house and just. being like I wouldn't see it for like 5. days but I'd be like yes. thinking about. it. [ __ ]. >> amped. Yeah, exactly. >> But like you were saying, it's like that. that young during those young formative. stages, you're you're just like, you. know, you don't realize how geeked you, you know, you're an adult and you're. like you you're like, "All right, I can. calm myself now." It's like you didn't. always have that. So, it's like most. adults probably don't even still today, but it's like. >> I I I barely do myself, but it's like as. a kid when something hits you, it.

[ __ ] rocks you. You're getting so. upset. If someone's like, "You [ __ ]. loser." You're like [gasps]. like it it [ __ ] it kills you. And you. have you know you have the porn the porn. the porn. >> and [snorts] then you know finally I. remember college and it's like. >> I can download as much porn as I [ __ ]. want on my computer. this is this [ __ ]. and then you know it goes on and on and. on and yeah it just really I think you. do personally me I've hit a point where. I I remember just thinking like yeah I. just don't it would be nice to not.

>> deal with that. >> you get bored of it at some point like. yeah you start like honestly and I think. it that's part of it like I know at. least for me it was you I don't know if. it's boredom that's not might that might. not be the best word but. >> yeah you're just like what the [ __ ] am I. doing. >> well yeah it's yeah that's a good. distinction it's not necessarily boredom. it's is kind of like, oh man, how much. longer? It's just, you know, I'm giving. this to this [ __ ] thing, which again, then you like look at the porn industry. as like an apparatus and it's like. it's really sad. Like, you can say I.

don't even want to think about that. [ __ ] But it it is it's like you know. you have these mo let's just say mostly. women although the guys stories I watch. a lot of soft white underbelly so I. watch a lot of these stories of people. like in the you know porn industry and. all this stuff. >> and it's almost always very a sad origin. story where it's like a girl was. sexually abused or this or that. >> bad family life. Yeah. >> Always pretty bad. And then the guy. their count male counterparts is never. exactly great either for the most part. So it's like you have these people and.

and it's this might be a bad way to put. about this is how like my mind kind of. like you know organizes it. It's like. you have these people who are like you. know in some way have caught a very raw. deal in society. Like if imagine a. beggar who's like beggars usually are. beggars because it's just all the [ __ ]. got [ __ ] up in their lives and now. they're beggars and like and if you walk. by them and just [ __ ] jerked off on. them. It's like that's kind of how I. started feeling. It's like they're not. obviously beggars. But it's like they've.

been dejected by very important parts of. their life in a very intimate way. >> and they get fed into this machinery. that very clearly rips them apart. >> Yeah. >> Female porn stars do not age well. >> No. >> Do there's been like four and the only. reason they did is cuz they became movie. stars and they got to like get out of. the porn life. But the the the people in. there are being grinded to a pulp in. like a way that's hard to comprehend. And then I always just felt doubly. disgusting being like and just jerking. off. It was just like I got you get to a.

point where you're like dude I just. again it's not like um a powdered wig. where I'm kind of being like evil. It's. just like I get it. I totally get it. I. just man I'd love to not have that on my. conscience or just like you were saying. with like. >> masking pain problems for being like I'm. going to go [ __ ] jerk off now. >> Well yeah and I think. I don't know. No, I mean I there's. obviously still activities that I still. like to do um that I started when I was. a kid, right? Like I still like sports.

>> I still, you know, some other [ __ ] but. there's also like a lot of things I did. as a kid that I don't do anymore cuz I. realize. >> I don't know. Just you get over it. >> Not a kid. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm not a kid. Like it's simple. Yeah. Exactly. As simple as that. Not a. kid. >> Saying porn, you're in a way saying porn. is for kids. [laughter]. >> It's a kid thing. >> It's a It's a kid thing. >> Like Frosted Flakes. >> Yeah. Just like [laughter]. I know what you mean. It's baby [ __ ]. >> Yeah. Well, yeah. [laughter] And you. Yeah, you get too.

>> Porn is for babies. >> It kind of is. >> It is a It is a It's It's a juvenile. response. [laughter]. >> But the frosted flick thing was fine. I. didn't make [laughter] that joke. But. yeah, >> but it's true. But I I get what you're. saying. It's And again, the problem is. the problem is with this. It's not. It. can come off as a holier than thou thing. and it's like bro anything but. >> And that's you hear that with a lot of. the guys who are.

>> you know pretty. >> I don't know if it's like staunchly but. yeah they they'll they'll make the. religious argument. They're like no. porn's fine. Like the only reason why. you don't think porn's fine is because. yes. >> you grew up Catholic or you grew up. >> Yeah. It's all that guilt. You have. excessive guilt and blah blah blah blah. >> Yeah. And we both grew up Catholic. >> Um and you got that. You definitely got. that to some degree. >> For sure. I I remember jerking off on. Easter and being like, I'm going to. hell. >> You want to talk about dedication to the. game? We're all, if you're a porn user, >> the Lord the Lord forgave you, forgave,

you know, he died for your sins and you. just decided to. >> I didn't understand that [clears throat]. part. I was just like, the guy died, but. there's God. He's going to punish my ass. and I'm going to [ __ ] hell. >> You're [ __ ] done. >> But here's [clears throat] here's. >> You still might. >> You still might. When you when you get. to the prayer of the gates, I'm like, Matt, >> remember that one time when you jacked. off on Easter when you were 13? >> That was it. So, I would gladly say, "Take me. My bad. I'm going down.". Here's the thing. Here's the thing with. that, though. When people go, "Oh, that's just excess Catholic guilt.".

>> It's like, "Okay, I hear you." Cuz, you. know, but but but then it's like. I feel like a lot of people who would be. against that tend to, not always, but. tend to be of a more like politically. liberal kind of, you know, leaning. >> Yeah. I think that's. >> And who's more guilt? They're the. guiltiest of all. So, it's like, dude, don't come at me for my guilt. We'll. talk guilt. >> That's a good point. >> And it's like, maybe you should feel. guilt. That's as I get older. >> That's that's another thing, dude. There's. >> I I Yeah, I think we probably should.

feel more guilty about what you have. Here's the thing, too. >> When you have kids and you have a wife. there, you actually should feel guilty. about things. >> If you're in the bathroom at night. jerking off, >> that's an understandable response to go. I think I'm [ __ ] missing the mark. >> Yeah. You're you're throwing [laughter]. one in the toilet 4 hours ago. You were. literally just telling your kid to take. a [ __ ] on that toilet. It's weird. >> It is weird. >> It's a weird thing. >> And if they if they walk in, god forbid, kids can have dreams. Kids can wake up. >> You're [ __ ]. >> You've you've literally altered their. life trajectory in I would say a.

negative way. Unless you convince them. it was all just a dream, go to bed. [laughter]. >> Yeah. >> Don't ever bring this up ever again. >> Yeah. Don't tell your mom. >> I'll fuss. [laughter]. >> So, yeah. >> Yeah. No, no, no. That's always the. thing that strikes me weird is like guys. are usually. >> usually jacking off in their house, right? Married men. >> Yep. >> And you it it is weird like you. associate all these memories with your. house or you do things with your kids in. your house, right? Like I said, like you. give them a bath and then in that same. bathroom you're [ __ ] you know. Yeah,

it's weird. And you should feel guilty. about that. >> Yeah, that's fair. >> I think you should. >> That's un Yeah, it's not ideal, >> you know? I don't think you And here's. the deal. That's different than being. like you're a complete piece of [ __ ]. Like you're not a complete piece of. [ __ ]. >> You're a little piece of [ __ ] right? But yeah, a little bit. But no, no, no. And that's that's that's the thing that. a lot of, you know, guys like me and you. who grew up in that space, in the. Catholic space, um, yeah, you just think. that you're a piece of [ __ ] That's not. even I'm not going to get into like the. whole like theology of it, but that's.

not even necessarily what the church. says, right? It's like you're not. >> you're not necessarily going to hell. Not like. >> Yeah. And that's that's the thing. Yeah. We we talked about is like the a lot of. the resistance is like a good bad binary. where it's like if you do this thing. you're bad. If you do this you're good. >> Yeah. That's such a shitty way of. approaching. >> Yeah. It's it's more like here's what. I'm up to right now. It could I could be. a little bit better. Yep. >> What's some of the stuff I have to shed? And dude, I I will say it's like uh you. know, again with just like the in a.

marriage, if you're if you're a guy. who's by himself, you're young, you're. like you're trying to figure things out, it's like it's Yeah, it's not obviously. it's not the end of the world if you rub. one out so you can fall asleep. >> That's I I agree. I really I honest to. God and it's hard. >> working in this space. you get a lot of. like you were kind of listing out a. little bit ago like you have like your. purists like never do this. >> Yeah. And like there is I mean because. there obviously is a difference between. being married and being single just.

there is um. >> I think why it's good to. try to shore this up now when you're a. single guy is because you're going to so. many guys think that when they get. married well I would say like a lot I. mean especially like the religious. people I know a lot of them think when. they get married this is just going to. be like the magic pill that makes them. stop and it's like no you're just going. to do it [ __ ] more Right. Cuz being. married, you're more stressed when. you're married. You're more stressed. when you have kids. So, if anything, you're making your life more of a pain.

in the ass. >> Yep. >> The down payment on the house. >> Yeah. That's exactly right. That's. >> You're not trying to have sex. This is. [ __ ] It's not supposed to be this. way. >> Exactly. And to the toilet. [clears throat]. >> Yep. That's exactly right. 2 a.m. We're. doing it. >> Hey, she's sleeping. Monitor her. breathing. >> Yeah. That's [laughter]. That's exactly right. Yeah, man. So, like Yeah. You just introduce more Yeah, you just introduce more stress in your. life. So, I think it is good for the. guys who are single to try to get this. [ __ ] unlocked now because it's really, dude, it's the [ __ ] worst to bring.

that into a marriage. >> I did and it [ __ ] sucked. >> Oh, yeah. >> It was terrible. >> No, it's and it's bad. Well, and this is. the thing again. My my point is more so. it's like Yeah. It's not like, okay, there's this, you know, body like. looking over you being like bad, good, bad, good. Cuz I I get the urge to be. like, [ __ ] you, man. I don't I don't I. can just not subscribe to this [ __ ] at. all. And it's like for sure you can do. that. My argument is long-term you can. like I did it when I was younger being. like this stuff's [ __ ] I don't give. a [ __ ] I can do it. And then you get. older and you're like there's something. to that. I think I think it's actually.

decent. >> Well, it's just like a it's almost like. a spirit that controls you. Yeah. >> Right. It's like it's just this is. controlling me. It's taking up so much. of like my mental bandwidth. I'm. constantly thinking about it when I'm at. work, right? I'm thinking about, oh man, I can't wait till I get home. or it it's. just this like vibration throughout your. day and it really does grip you. >> and I think you know especially like in. all these like. >> I don't know kind of like lame like. modern male movements they're like I. want to be independent right I I don't.

want [ __ ] to I I want to be like. >> I I want to be above all that right like. >> and yeah those same guys though are. probably also not even realizing how. much porn controls their life. >> um or the pornographic in general, right, >> is controlling their lives. So, just. like I said, always constantly thinking. about it or, >> you know, even just like, >> you know, anytime you see a a. good-looking chick walk by, you're just.

>> [ __ ] go. You're gooned. My brother. puts it best. He's like, even if you're. not looking at porn, you can still be. gooned. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Or you're on Instagram, you're. scrolling. If you're scrolling, my my. brother claims if you're scrolling, you're gooning. >> Yeah. >> If you're sitting there and you're in. the scroll, you're gooned. You're. gooned. non orgasmic goon. >> You're just gooned. Yeah. You're. completely just like. so. >> Yeah. You're Yeah. You're mindless. Yeah. >> And and and it's like the babes are. coming. You're you know what you're. doing. You're you're in your hamster. cage and you're [ __ ] hitting your. little switch and you're going, "Oh, the. [ __ ] babes. Well, [ __ ] Who am I?". You know?

>> That's exactly right. >> So, it's like you're kind of pulling. that lever. >> And there's a lot of things, dude. Like. I see these stupid [ __ ] YouTube. videos where. like in in this like male kind of I. don't know space um where it's like porn. or like lust is like the f like if you. can get over lust you are man. It's like. no that's the [ __ ] actually like. easiest thing I think to get over as a. guy. Like for me, you know, once I got. over porn, I started and I'm still like.

trying to figure out all like the deeper. [ __ ] that makes me a piece of [ __ ] Like. my I'm [ __ ] angry all the time. I am. angry all the time. >> I'm yelling all the time. I have a lot. of like anger and wrath. >> That's much that is for me that's been. way more difficult to try to figure out. than lust, right? So for a lot of the. times these guys will spend our whole. [ __ ] lives just trying to figure out. this like porn issue, this lust issue, this whatever, right? And it's and we we.

spend our whole lives trying to get over. that and we haven't even got we're not. we're not we don't have the bandwidth to. um deal with more like guttural. >> um problems like like for guys like a. lot like the anger, the dickishness, right? You know, whatever. Well, you. don't really you don't really think. about this stuff. At least I didn't at. all till I had kids. Because then like. when you're in an apartment by yourself, if you have you have a girlfriend, like. I'm [ __ ] angry. Who gives a [ __ ] I. [ __ ] yelled. Whatever. It's not the. end of the world. Once you have kids, you're like, damn, I'm making this this.

place, this living environment hell. >> and it's me. Like, I'm doing this. >> Yes. >> And that's why again for me personally, I I would say the porn thing, the piece. of that was like, >> you know, I'm at odds with my wife. I. want sex. I'm like, [ __ ] And then I, you know, you slink off to the porn, slink off the porn. never fix the issue. Whereas, if you're like, "All right, we. got to get on the same page that we're, you know, we got to we got to be. operating. Part of a marriage is we're. obviously having sex with each other. We're communicating." Porn's such a. little like it's like a little. underground shelter you can kind of hide. out in. And then you obviously [ __ ].

just become a freak under, you know, an. underground bunker freak. But that was. the uh at least for me personally. And. it's like you start h and then it's like. you you ditch the porn safety blanket. and you're like, "All right, I have to. hash this out." And for me, it's like. that then starts at least starts to. spread out into other areas of my life. where I would be like, I don't feel like. dealing with this blah blah blah. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah. I don't know. I I I think it's. good. And I really, again, having kids. is like the big thing for me where it's. like I'm every day I'm like, "All right,

let's make my house. What can I do to. make my house chill, fun, and just like. a like a place that feels good to be. in?" And that entails when I'm feeling. like. about whatever I have to catch myself. and calm myself down and realize like. this isn't as big as the thing I'm. trying to do which is like create a. happy healthy house. >> Yeah, that's exactly right. >> But it's hard. It's very very difficult. to be like and and this is something I. had to tell myself a lot of times where. I'm like, [snorts]. >> you know, I I'm you're responsible for. how you feel inside. It's no one else's.

It's literally your responsibility and. it's like what do you have to do to make. that stuff feel good inside your body? Like how do you feel at ease? And it's. like you have to figure that out. >> Yeah, you do. And there's like well. that's a good nuance take and that's the. difficult thing that a lot of dudes just. like it takes them forever to figure out. like unless like you're super conscious. that this is going to be. >> Yeah. like a long journey, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like you're not ever gonna come to. that realization. I'm even thinking.

about just like how on edge a lot of. guys are when they're looking at porn. Like you got your phone, you got your. laptop, you're always on the high alert. because you're just like, "Oh, did I. exit out of this? >> My wife probably can't pick up my phone. Did I delete the Instagram history? >> Did the audio go to a Bluetooth device?". >> 100%, dude. [laughter]. That would be the worst. No, but you're. always on high alert. And just think. about like what that. >> that that like hyper. So you're you're. hyper alert and think about what that. does just as you in your household. How.

do you conduct yourself in your. household? If you're always on high. alert, dude, you're just going to be. more. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to you're. going to obviously. >> possibly like lash out with the kids. more or with the wife. >> and the wife's going to think that, you. know, something's up with him. She's. going to confront you and then you're. just like, "No, I'm not." Then you start. to lie. Yeah. Right. So it it just. creates this bad. >> Yeah. It's just like a bad household. culture, you know? And so I think yeah, I mean obviously.

if you're if you're a married man with. kids, yeah, you you got to get this [ __ ]. unlocked. You do need to get this [ __ ]. unlock even if you're single because. you're going to you're going to bring it. into the marriage and you're going to. bring it into your household at some. point. >> It is also kind of a flex as a young man. to be in a relationship and you're like, I don't even look at that crap. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's kind of nice. >> Yeah. >> Because it's like. Yeah. There's. I feel like girls have been I don't. know. I I'm trying to think of the word. Not like conditioned, but like I I feel. like it's become a bit strange for let's.

say most girls in like just like you. know modern normal society. >> to be like if she wants to watch porn. that's fine. Like almost like it's a. it's healthy. >> It's good. >> But I don't think girls like it at all. They don't. I've never met a single girl. who actually your girlfriend might say. that but the moment she becomes your. wife she's like [ __ ] this dude. Like. >> not watching that [ __ ]. >> Yeah. Why are you asking me to do this. crazy [ __ ] when we're having sex? >> That's true. Yeah. No, I I agree. >> No, they don't like it. >> At some point, I also would argue that. >> I don't give a [ __ ] I I don't think any.

guy probably wants a wife who is. legitimate. Like, you might say you do, >> but at some point down the road, I I. don't think a guy. >> Dude, if you said it 100 times, you will. actually genuinely catch your wife. puning would be devastating. >> Yeah. No, absolutely. >> Devastate. I would be like, "What the. [ __ ] are you doing?" I'd be so mad. >> Absolutely, dude. >> Like, phone in hand. >> Phone in hand. [laughter]. Bro. >> Yeah, >> you're [ __ ] good. >> Yeah, that's gross. >> I I would hate that. >> That's gross. Well, the the female porn. thing is is interesting. I don't know. I.

mean, I obviously know more about. >> the guy phenomenon jacking off, >> but no, dude. The chicks are loving like. the erotica now. >> Yeah, they love. >> that's that's just like mainstream Yeah. the novels and all that stuff. >> The novels, the vampires or whatever. they [ __ ] into. There's There's a new. bookshop. >> on my street that just opened up. porn. >> Yeah, erratica. >> Oh, no. >> Like, what the [ __ ]. >> Yeah. No, that's that's uh. >> gross. >> They're not really open to talking about. it. Whenever I I always ask I ask my.

wife if she reads she likes like fantasy. stuff, but I feel like now it's like. >> the erotic and and and it's they're not. like it's not like the like and then he. [ __ ] [ __ ] me in the ass. It's. [laughter] like it's all about the. moment two people meet. That's the. thing. They want like the the moment. they go [ __ ] it and they just kiss. That's like their erotica. >> They get whisked away. >> Yeah. They get whisked away. And I I've. learned I I listened to this female. professor lady was talking about it. She's like, "Dude, I I'm a professor and. I, you know, I just started reading. these books and I" She's like, "I got so. [ __ ] like I would put them literally.

like almost like like a cartoon like in. another book and like hide." She's like, "I would read I would read them and I". She goes, "I would reread that point. over and over and over and over where. they finally come together.". >> Gets them going. >> Gets them fired up. >> It does, dude. >> So, and and again, for me, it's like, you know, because you hear even going to. marriage, people go like, "Dude, it's. crazy. the idea of having sex with one. person or your whole it's just like a. stupid idea. It doesn't make sense. I. what I found is like it's actually. really easy especially if you're not. watching porn because then you just sit. there and if you're not especially if. you're not jerking off you just.

eventually your body's going to go. >> yeah it's time for sex and you're not. going to go my wife go [ __ ] my wife I. I'm I'm horny. >> Yeah. No, it's great. >> So. >> I've been [ __ ] my wife for a long. time. [laughter]. >> It doesn't get old. I always. >> Isn't cope. It's not like I I would tell. you. I'd be like, "Yeah, it's kind of. boring." I would say, "Guys, I'm sorry.". If I say to my wife, "Sorry, [ __ ]. boring.". >> I'm not bored. I go like, "Fuck it.". Yes. >> No, that's true. I And I think it.

actually gets phenomenally better when. you stop looking at porn. Like I. >> 100% like. >> I've been dating my wife or I started. dating my wife when I was 18. >> Yeah. >> So, I've been, >> you know, I don't know. I I've been. obviously having sex with my wife for a. long time. I'm 34. >> Um, and it has Yeah. Just hasn't gotten. old. No, it's it's it's uh but for me, I. remember dating and being a porn hound. and I I remember I would like I would. I'd be like whatever like this is cool. and all. I just don't think that you. know and I guess too and like you know. obviously luckily you marry someone you.

have like a a sexual spark with you know. sometimes that just isn't there. >> Yeah. >> But yeah, I uh I don't know. I I do. think it's uh I think it's the move. You. know, all things considered, it's like. you can come at it. Everyone comes at it. from their own angle. But I've. >> I've gone both sides of the thing. I. used to literally watch porn while I ate. breakfast when I was in college. >> That's I would just watch it. I I would. just I would just basically load it up. I'd be like, "All right, what am I going. to watch?" And I would just start I. would eat it. I remember just being. like, "This is so sick. I can watch. porn." And it's like it's literally.

you're you're on like Donkey Island with. Pinocchio. >> I had a college roommate um. [clears throat] who. >> Pop-Tarts and porn. >> Yeah. Little. Yeah. Yeah. make it a day. [laughter] I had a college roommate who. would um. who would every night get his laptop. out. He was a [ __ ] fiend. Holy [ __ ]. This is actually just coming back to me. So he was a fiend. He would open up his. laptop, peruse what he wanted to look at. in the morning, >> close his laptop, woke up, have it.

>> But he was [ __ ] Dude, he was sick. He. would He had like a flashlight that he. would Yeah. So he was in it. >> He was in it, D. >> He was [ __ ] in it, dude. Dude, um, but this is actually not, you know, it's. funny because, dude, >> we all have the, that's the thing. We. all have these stories and it just. becomes so normalized that we just think. and it is fun. Like, it is kind, it's. funny objectively, dude. It's funny. It's funny. And. >> yeah, but that's also the other thing. It's like there has to be a nuance in it. with it because it is funny, but it's. also like grow up. Like, you know what I.

mean? Going back to the. >> going back to the kids, right? Like it's. like grow up, dude. Like you can't be. just [ __ ] doing this all your life. >> It is sad cuz you are essentially having. sex with yourself and it's like jerking. off whatever. I get it. Like you know. you're Look, I always think of soldiers. on the battlefield cranking out. Obviously it's going to happen. But. >> once you get into like the the gear, the. flashlight, the oculus, it's like now. you're having sex with yourself. >> Yeah, you are. >> Weird. >> Well, dude, and then I feel I feel. really bad for the guys who [sighs].

>> and I I I'm not going to like talk about. like the science behind it because I. just don't really know. But both so like. it's this is more so anecdotal but I've. heard a lot of stories even from like. users in the app like they just make. such a relationship with their hand that. this is how you do get erectile. dysfunction. It's like the only thing. that you can. >> that's going to get you off is your. hand. And so then you're with a chick. This is super tragic. It's really sad. for. >> that does suck. you know, the 20some. year old guys, the 30some year old guys, you know, they they do finally get a.

babe and they can't get it up and. >> Yeah. >> then I mean, that's a [ __ ] cycle, right? You can't get it up, you feel. like [ __ ] So, >> and you just go back on the porn. >> Yeah. >> It's [ __ ] crazy. >> That's the one thing that I uh and I. think that's luck being lucky enough to. be born before internet porn. That does. suck for guys who are just like came. online and was just like boom, here you. go. >> How old are you? 40. >> Okay. Yeah, I'm 34. So, there's that. But that that six years actually is. Yeah. No, that's actually like a huge. distinction.

>> Um because my parents got a computer and. they had no idea what the [ __ ] was going. on. >> My parents had no idea. >> I don't even know. I didn't even know. that. They probably didn't know that. there was history, right? So, you could. just. >> They didn't I guarantee you they did. They had no idea. We I remember floppy. I was like in the floppy disc era. That. was like very initially my I remember my. brother to bring home a floppy disc, pop. it in, naked chick comes up and we're. like [ __ ] awesome. >> But yeah, that's my whole thing. I I. always try not to uh.

just like talk down to people or be like. preachy about it. It's just like dude, I'm telling you like I've run the. experiment. It's like for me personally, you could be like in some weird, you. know, you could just be like, "No, me. and my wife are poly and we watch porn.". It's like, okay, it's [ __ ]. >> Yeah. Yeah, whatever. >> Good luck with that. But it's like good. luck. But it's like for me I I would say. if you're standard meat and potatoes or. whatever, if you're like I'm a dude. trying to have a wife and kids, it's. like. >> just it's like it's one of those things. where it's like it's got to be kind of. kicked out eventually. Otherwise, you. have a porn dad. I remember porn dads. I.

don't know if you ever came across a. porn dad, but like guys who just had. Playboys. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I Yeah. >> And it's [ __ ] weird looking back on. it. I was like, dude, there was Playboys. all over that dude's house. I'm like. >> Yeah. No, it's weird. Uh, gives it still. gives me the he I remember being like, "Dude, your dad's so [ __ ] cool. He. has Playboys. I wish my [ __ ] dad had. Playboy." Yeah. >> Now I'm like, I'm so happy my dad is. very Yeah. No, my dad was not a porn. dad. >> No, >> he's not a porn dad. But no, I I know. cuz you And that's also the thing. It's. like Yeah. You grow up with it thinking. it's like a cool like novelty. >> I want to be like my dad just going to.

[ __ ] start. >> jacking off. I don't know. It It's. weird. It It's It's very [ __ ] weird. Um, >> also mechan I I remember going around to. like mechanics shops when I was younger. with my dad. Plastered in porn every. mechanic shop's bathroom and then I was. literally just the other day I was like. dudes jerking off in there. >> They might have. >> I'm pretty sure they were. >> They might have. >> I guarantee it cuz it's like otherwise. what the [ __ ]. >> Yeah. >> Well, you're just around and guys are. only so [ __ ] strong, you know? So if. you're just around like. >> somebody dude I remember just be a.

collage of just naked ladies in there. and I'd be like. >> I remember being little and being like. whoa. my dad would be like, "Close your. eyes, go to the bathroom, come out of. there." And I remember just like. >> we were me and my uh my oldest is four. and there's like up the street. He's not. a mechanic anymore, but he he has an old. garage and like we would walk past it. and we said hello one time and he was. like, "Oh, come over into the den." We. came over into the den and it was just. like like the classic like 1970s, 1980s.

like tits. And I'm like, "Fuck, dude. Close your eye. I I I pulled my boy. away. I was like, "Don't [ __ ] look at. this." [laughter]. I was so scared. I was like, "Dude, [ __ ] I just [ __ ] up my kid's life. forever." So. >> now that's young enough. He probably. forgot. >> I hope. Dude. >> Nah. >> I hope I remember I saw a naked lady the. first time cut out of a magazine on. literally it's a classic on the woods. just in the woods like ground of the. woods crumpled up and it was just a. naked lady. I was I was probably for. real like six years old. >> Yeah. >> I remember just being like, "What is.

that?" And someone's like, "It's a naked. lady." I remember just being in the. woods. It was outside of the Kacong Swim. Club. Just being like, "What the fuck?". And just I remember just like as a kid. just being like, "Okay." And just like. walking about my way. >> Yeah. Well, hopefully that was him or. hopefully that's my my boy. I'm hoping. that he's not [ __ ] up. >> I think he's fine. It's when you get 10, someone's like, "Yo, my brother, same. thing. They were just like, "Check this. out. Naked lady. >> on a on a thing." And I was just like, >> older brother. >> Older brother. >> Yeah. Older brother. >> There same exact story. They have their. buddies. They have the VHS and they're.

like, "Check this." Cuz I used to have. to guard. I would stand. They make me. stand like this down by the [ __ ] door. from when my parents came back and I. have to run up and be like, "They're. here. They're here.". >> So, in order to do that, they had to let. me They let me watch a little bit of it. And I was like, "This is so [ __ ]. sick.". >> That is the So, that's another issue. though, too, because it is such a part. And again, it you say these things and. it's not like it's not bad. Like, I. you kind of like this sounds [ __ ]. weird, but like it is like a fond. memory. Like that's funny, right? That. memory is funny.

>> Or when your friends. >> all get together, which by the way, women never think this is real, but it's. like, yeah, like a guy. >> in in your class had a DVD or VHS or. whatever, and then you all go to [ __ ]. his house and you're all like just. jerking off in the. >> Well, cuz you're also so young. You're. like, "Oh, you do that, too?" Yes. It's. like your drinking buddies. >> Yeah. And they're like, "What is that? That's gay." And it's like, "No, it. wasn't gay." Like, we weren't jacking. each other off. [laughter]. >> We were just We were just jacking off. with our thighs touching. Like that's. not gay. That's not gay.

>> Also, also it was really like you need. you were like like how like heroin. addicts all go to like a shooting. gallery. >> Yeah. >> You were just like, "Yo, we got it. Let's go. You essentially have heroin. and you're like, "Let's do heroin. Start. doing." So there's. >> And I I look back at that and I like. laugh. And I do think like to some. degree it's. >> Well, and this is this is the difficult. part. This is my whole deal. It's like. >> that's funny. I'm not here to like. [ __ ] moralize you, right? Yeah. But I. don't know a lot of guys who are able to.

have a relationship with porn and not. get addicted or just have like a pretty, you know, dependent relationship with. it, you know, >> for sure. >> It's like if you could smoke a. cigarettes. with you a couple days ago and it's. like, okay, I'm not going to smoke a. cigarette again. Yeah. Right. >> But I have that relationship with. cigarettes. I can do that. But um yeah, with porn, if like I'm going to look if. I'm looking at porn once, even to this. day, I'm probably on the [ __ ] I'm I'm. off my rocker. I'm good.

>> I am going to look at it every single. day, >> dude. And then then there's the issue of. like what um a porn it's, you know, and. again, me and my brother talk about this. a lot, but like in being in a porn hole. is another thing, too, where it's like. you're you're you're using porn, whatever. Some guys go so deep into it. where it's like now we're calling hooker. ads, now we're doing this. And then you. come out of the whole thing where you're. just like, "What the [ __ ] did I do?" I I. I used to read like uh I would read. about this all the time and you get you. go on like Reddit and you porn. addiction, this and that. And there's a. guy who's like,

>> "Yeah, I was watching porn one day. I. kind of spazzed called hookers. [snorts]. I end up having like unprotected sex. with it." And you're just like, "Jesus.". >> Yeah. That's like the worst type of. stories. >> Yeah. But there is a porn hole. You can. be like when you're in porn brain and. you're gooner brain, it's like. >> you might think you're thinking. normally, but you're kind of not. You're. gooned. You're at a place you're being. like like if you see like a chick, you're just instantly being like [ __ ]. And it's just like. >> there's a point of it where you're like, dude, like. >> Yeah. No, like I said, it goes back to. that like spirit energy. Like it like. just grips you and you can't It's like a.

[ __ ] succubus almost. You know what I. mean? Like it's like the sexist actually. like exists. >> and it's just like ruling your life and. you have that attached to your back. Um. yeah, man. It makes you Yeah, you could. do wild [ __ ] like porn. Just got done. looking at it for three hours. You feel. bad about yourself. >> It could even be like, "Yeah, I'm going. to [ __ ] buy this new pair of Nikes. that I can't afford." You know what I. mean? Like you just do stupid [ __ ]. >> Um yeah. And there's and even like uh. like on like a societal perspective,

it's I don't know what the. I'm not going to say cuz I don't want to. look like a [ __ ] idiot, but there's. like a percentage of divorce is. happening because of porn or infidel. infidelity, right, in general, right? So. like that's a that's a percentage of. like whatever the 52% divorce rate is. >> It's like that's just going to cost you. a lot of [ __ ] money, dude. So like. you were looking at porn, now you got to. pay alimony. >> Like now you got to pay child support. Yeah. >> It's like [ __ ] that, dude. Like that's. >> Well, and and it's like again and then.

that that is. >> then you [ __ ] up your kid's life. Like I. don't care like if you and that's you. know whatever but like you know you get. a divorce. >> I don't care like if it's even like a. positive reason like why you got. divorced. Like there are some. relationships out there, right, that. shouldn't necessarily exist. You get a. divorce, you're still throwing a [ __ ]. nuclear bomb into your family. Like the. kid's going to be [ __ ] Like the kids. going to have some type of and it's like. a spectrum. >> Be fond of it. Yeah. I was unless you're. a sick ticket like me. I remember my. parents stay together. I wish they got. divor when I was younger. I used to wish.

they got divorced so bad just because it. was like I would always hear about. people having two Christmases. >> Oh yeah. [laughter] Excited. >> I was like a little sick like dude that. sounds so sick. But then it's like. obviously I was on the outside looking. in. I'd probably be very sad. >> We also had we had I was one of six. So. my parents would laugh and be like, "Dude, we literally can't get like we. can't we could we could, but it'd be so. >> Yeah. >> He's like I remember my dad is always. laugh at me and like it's just it's it's. just not I don't even know how to even. go about that.". >> Yeah.

>> But and it's it's one of those things I. get it where you go, "Well, if I look at. porn when I get divorced, it's like no, not necessarily, but you're probably. more likely. I I really would imagine. >> you're likely to do more stupid [ __ ] or. you're likely to. >> be more of a dictator. Like all your bad. qualities are going to come out because. of porn." Like even like going back to. the whole like surveillance thing or. you're hypervigilant or whatever, all of. your worst qualities are going to be. highlighted because you're looking at. all. >> that's a cool way to put it there. It's. like it's a kind of a node in this like. network of thinking and being that's. probably not the best.

>> Yep. Yep. Exactly. And so yeah, you're I. don't know there's just a lot of ill. effects. And what's cool is that I do. think more than ever now people are at. least like more privy to this. Mhm. >> Even like 5 years ago, >> you couldn't really talk about, >> you know, people like you weren't. necessarily talking about porn. addiction, you know, or porn. >> Be surprised. >> Be surprised. [laughter] I haven't I've. been droning on about it for like 10. years. But. >> yeah, >> but but I know what you mean. It was. very uh I remember the nofap thing. coming out and being like,

>> whoa. Yeah. >> All right, guys. Please, please, please, I beg of you. I'll be doing standup uh. August 7th and August 8th, San Jose, California. Come on, guys. Ticket sales, boy. Now, every everywhere else is. looking decent, but San Jose, California, I get it. It's not great. It's summertime. Um, but if. [clears throat] you want to come, come. August 13th and 14th, Spokane, Washington. Then I'll be in Portland, Maine, Boston, Massachusetts, Royal Oak, Michigan, Milwaukee, Wisconsin,

Charlotte, Jacksonville, Atlanta, Chattanoo Chattanooga, Fort Lauderdale, Tampa, Orlando, and a bunch of other. places. Guys, go to mattcusker.com. to get tickets. I'll be touring all. through December. The so in terms of the. app there's the there's like the. recognizing that. >> yeah they first have to recognize the. pain [ __ ] and the fact. >> like horniness horniness is a real. thing. There is just horniness but then. there's a pain component and like kind. of tang untangle. >> You got to untangle that. You got to. realize like I said going back that. you've [ __ ] it's like you it's like. almost like if you only worked out your.

right bicep your whole life. It's going. to be [ __ ] huge and the rest of your. body is going to. >> it's actually a pretty appropriate. [ __ ]. >> look like [laughter] [ __ ] Yeah, your. forearm is just [ __ ]. >> So, and what what are the other two kind. of points of it? So, there's that and. there's. >> there's a community feature, right? So, like there is. >> just like how you have a band of. brothers when you're a kid jacking off. with each other, right? You have to that. that is true that you do have to get. into community with one another. Um, and. there is like there it is shown that. some accountability is is very positive.

in this, right? So, the fact that you. can go to someone for like, "Hey, my. wife just blew up on me or I'm. struggling today," right? Those are like. pretty easy examples. Just the fact that. you realize that your situation is. actually not that unique. That's another. thing, guys. Like, we think we just get. into this headsp space. We get into this. tunnel vision. It's like, I'm the only. one dealing with this [ __ ] It's like my. wife's only reacting like this or. whatever. and then you open it up and. it's like no everyone's [ __ ] life is. is very similar to what your experience.

is. >> So there's a community feature to it. Um. and then there's a there's another. feature is which is good for you know. for some people there is like a. psychoeducational piece right you you do. need to have some understanding of how. this is actually affecting your brain. and. >> how how yeah what is do you know that. stuff as well? >> Yeah like what do you want to know? >> How does it affect your brain? What does. it do in the in like the squishy stuff. in there? >> Yeah. [clears throat] So, well, there a. lot, right? I mean, first of all, it. does, you know, everyone is always going.

to say like it overrides your, you know, your your dopamine, you know, receptors, right? So, it does like flood it. So, you are more and again, well, it's hard. because it's very nuanced. You don't. realize it's to to some degree you don't. realize it, but it is like, you know, the greens aren't as green or something. like that. You know what I mean? And so. like you're going throughout these. experiences in your life and because. you're flooding yourself with like this. with these dope with this dopamine all. the time. Yeah. You are a little more. sluggish towards life, right? >> That's that's the way I've heard it.

It's like it's a uh. >> someone was saying it's like a. neurologically expensive event. Every. time you have look at porn jerk off. >> Yeah. >> Your brain, you know, you only have it's. like shooting out little, you know, sparks and particles of [ __ ]. >> It's like it's a lot. It's like every. time like naked lady orgasms like your. brain's going this is it and it just. fires so much to your point where you. start starts to kind of dull like the. greens aren't as green. You're just kind. of you just don't have the juice pretty. much. >> And then like you know you start making.

relationships with the porn you start. making relationships with the hand. You. start you know what I mean? Like your. your brain will pick up on this. So. again like going back to that whole ED. point that's real. Like if you're really. just only able to get off to your hand, it's because you created a relationship. with your hand. >> Um, >> and your body recognizes that, well, no, this isn't a vagina. Like, I can't get. hard to this. Yeah, this is it's going. to always be a tighter grip. >> So, there's that, you know, and. kills your it honestly does crush even.

things like productivity, right? >> So, your output on that. Um, and I'm I'm. I'm very grateful because again, people. are more apt to talk about this [ __ ]. now. There's tons of research going on. um getting into the weeds of how this is. actually like affecting men's brains, right? Um, so I think the and I think. for a certain guy that's always good, but that can't be the only piece, right? Like you're not going to deal with this. just through psycho education, right? You have to I you have to have the.

cocktail of the metacognitive the. brotherhood accountability space and the. psycho education. I think that's like. the greatest route to overcome this. >> I agree. Yeah. It's Yeah, it's it's more. so part of like. consciously authoring your life in a way. where you're like, "All right, I'm just. going to really start every single thing. I do asking myself, is this a good. thing?" You know, should I be doing. this? What would it look like if I. didn't? >> And just experimenting. That's what the. one thing I' I've always been lucky. with. I I am a big self-experimentter. I.

love just like doing weird experiments. and like like last last month I I did a. thing where I just try to work out every. day for 30 days. I did 32 days just like. really hard. >> No breaks. >> No breaks just to see like do I really. need rest time? Like I you hear about. all the time like what if I didn't? >> You do. I got very tired. But the um but. you you kind of like you know I don't. know. I I think it especially as you get. older because people fall into this rut. of just like I guess I go to work every. day and it's like you can always be like. giving yourself challenges,

self-experiments and do you know I I. think that's like one of the best. possible things you can do and it's like. and again I. >> for me the I was one of the most. staunchly like. >> [ __ ] dude if people tell you that's bad. like there that's just some arcane old. [ __ ] like you're dumb for listening. to that and I was like porn rules do. whatever you want all it's like the. classic tale. Then you get older and. you're like. damn it now, you know, it's like you're. kind of like I've made my bed and that. wow it would be Imagine being way more.

conscious about this stuff when I was in. my early 20s. I could have made my life. infinitely easier kind of thing. >> Well, no, exactly. Like I think that's a. good principle like you want your life. to be. >> like you like Yeah, like easier, right? Yeah. Pleasant would be nice. >> Pleasant would be nice. I would like not. to not get into a [ __ ] argument with. my wife. [clears throat]. >> And it's really like, you know, you. really there's something to that if. you're gooned when you're younger and. you're select, you're like out looking. for, you know, wife, girlfriend,

whatever. >> You're you're so you don't even realize, and maybe this is like without the goon. or with it, I don't know to be fair. >> But it's like if you're just like used. to being like naked chick, tits, blah. blah blah ass, awesome. But then you. learn like, oh, I have to like relate to. this person as a human being. And that's. like maybe that's just the fate of all. men no matter what. >> But it's like that's that's like a tough. one, man. Because it's like you just. you're so gooned out. You're like, I'm. going to [ __ ] this [ __ ]. >> Yeah. You're just going to Yeah. >> And you have to build a life with it.

You're like, "Fuck, I didn't think about. that part." So. >> yeah, that's a huge part. Also, like. even going to that point though, like. Yeah. You spend your whole life I've. even seen this where it's like, >> you know, you think you develop how much. of our taste for women has actually been. influenced by porn, right? Right. So, it's like, oh, I just like, you know, a. [ __ ] big tit brunette chick. It's. like, well, maybe it's maybe that's. actually not necessarily Well, >> I don't know who wouldn't like a. [laughter]. chick, right? But. >> no, it's I, you know what I mean? There's something to be said for that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, well, how. much of your taste has actually been. affected by pornography? >> You just can't give any spec any. specifics like, yeah, that's. >> Yeah. Well, it's like, yeah, that's. awesome. That's awesome. That's awesome. >> Do you really like a short Asian lady? [laughter]. >> He's very slim. like, "Yeah, okay. Maybe. I do it, too." Yeah. But I I get your. point. It's like. >> it does it uh and it also like, you. know, again, just like you whether you. can say, "I know porn's all fake," but. if you're just watching that over and. over and over and over again, you start. to be like, "This is how it should. look.". >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly right.

Like how it should look. >> You don't The jackhammer is not You. don't You don't need to just bust out. the jackhammer on a Wednesday night. >> Yeah. >> 8:00 p.m. It's like [laughter] a real. thing. >> That's exactly right. It's not really like that. >> No. Well, yeah. And then it isolates you. because then you come to you know what. what's the the [snorts] goon caves? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Have you ever heard about this or read. about it or. >> I Yeah, there was an article I saw and I. only like half. >> from the Harpers. >> Yes. >> Yeah. My brother sent me I think you. sent me that as well. Did you? >> I sent you had three people send me.

that. >> I think I sent you that. I sent you. Monks in the Casino. >> I got to check that. No, I didn't read. that yet. >> That's good. >> Is it good? It's all about like the vice. economy and how, you know, uh, it's it's. the porn plus the gambling, which is, man, [ __ ] dude. The gambling is Do you. gamble? Do you sports gamble? Me either. I'm a big gambler. >> I am the only Do you sports gamble? >> No, I've never done. >> I'm not allowed to anymore. [laughter]. >> Your wife, your girlfriend, >> my wife. >> Hell yeah. >> Yeah. >> She [ __ ] put a stop to it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Good. >> I was never. >> That sounded bad. You probably had a You.

probably had a problem. I don't want to. talk. [laughter]. >> Yeah. Never mind. We'll We won't We can. delve into that the next time. But yeah, I've never been a big gambler, man. I I. never um I get it. I've done it a couple. times. Like this is fun, but I I get so. sick when I lose money cuz especially. >> casino. I've never done it. I've never. I've never I'm not trying to I just. never have been interested in it. >> I' I've uh Yeah, it it doesn't it. doesn't do it for me. And I also don't. follow sports enough to like even. pretend I have like a winning. You know, a lot of guys watch enough like I'm kind. of keyed in. I think that's where it. gets guys who are like, "No, I'm seeing.

something no one sees." And that's like. the. >> I'm not seeing anything. I'm literally. take it's roulette for me. I I would be. being like, "Yeah, those guys.". >> Yeah. And that's this article and I. haven't read it since I think it came. out in November. Monks in the Casino. I. forget who wrote it. Um I think it was. just like a Substack publication, but. yeah, that's his whole thing. It's like. we there's these we're living a monastic. life in the sense where all these guys. are like isolated and alone. >> and we're in this like cell and the only.

you know type of interaction we get is. with. not real people right so it's like. you're not actually like interacting. with the people when you g like you're. not actually like interacting with. [ __ ]. >> you know Bryce Harper or anything like. that like you're just betting on him and. you're not interacting with the chick. that you're jacking off to. >> Yeah. So you're just living a very. cloistered life. >> Even Only Fans, I've learned you're not. even talking to her. It's like four. Romanian dudes just around the clock. just typing back. >> Romanians. >> pretty much. Yeah, [laughter] pretty. much. It's just like four. No, really,

it is like Eastern European guys and. they're they're around the clock. >> Yeah. >> And the lady recorded this [ __ ] like. four years ago and now she's just. chilling. It was like when you I I saw. this in an interview with someone. And. they were saying um if [snorts] you only. fans now so this person really did. whoever the model is really if they have. like they all usually they have managers. if it's a bigger like uh porn star lady. she has management all this stuff so. they take you in they're like dude. you're going to do a new piece of. content every day for like a year or two. once you have let's say like a hundred.

something videos when a new you just. stop you're like I'm done I'm not record. you can record if you want but you can. also stop and then that person gets. dripfed your old content from years ago. from you you quote unquote, but it's. just a team of typers being like, "Oh, hey." And like, you know, it kind of. gets like fed out and dripped out and. then it's just like you're you're just. like watching an old curated collection. while this lady does whatever the [ __ ]. they do. But like it's not you're not. even with Only Fans, like at least you. get to talk to the person like you're. not even talking to the person. >> That's [ __ ] crazy. >> Yeah. Sucks. >> That is wild. And there again, you take.

like a 30, you know, thousand foot view. on that. Like that is pathetic, right? It's sad. Like it's sad. >> It's sad. again could have got me. honestly if my wife didn't have all my. credit cards. >> I would have for sure signed up for one. of those. But it's like she's got I. literally I literally can't I don't do. any of the financial [ __ ] So I don't. like. >> Same here. >> I hate I also hate [ __ ] doing it. So. it's like which is sweet. I don't have. to do that. But it's. >> I don't even I never know how much money. we have. >> I don't know either. I genu I ask her. like every like twice a year I'll be. like.

>> how are we doing? >> How is everything? >> Yeah. Yeah. Are we good? Like we're. going to afford the house. Well, I read. a long time ago that samurai held it. down like that. That a samurai would be. like. >> a samurai would take care of Oh, no. >> No. It would be like I'm a samurai. All. this other stuff is dealt with. I'm not. even looking or thinking about this, which I try to do. I'm like, I'm not I'm. if I can help it. I'm not even going to. just. >> let me know if [ __ ] gets [ __ ] up, basically. >> Yeah. >> That's how we roll. >> I stuck to that, but apparently it's not. the case. A lot of talk a lot of guys. are like, what? They're like, no, I do. every I do all of our stuff like that.

And it's like, what the [ __ ]. >> No, I don't I don't [ __ ] with the. finances. I don't touch him. >> That's a very That's a. >> Is that like old world? Like classical. >> Yeah, ancient Greeks. We're just being. like we're just being like the Greeks, dude. >> The word economy comes from household. management. >> World economy comes from household. management. [laughter]. >> We were just talking about this. >> or economia. >> It is the economia. [laughter]. >> Yeah, good point. I'm going to Yeah, fair point. >> We're just Yeah, we're just living that. ancient Greek life. >> I've said it before. Money's for girls.

[laughter] Yeah, >> money is literally for girls, dude. >> Yeah, >> I think so. Money is for real. We. invented money for girls, right? Here's. [ __ ] Here's your thing. >> Shut up. Here's a [ __ ] Absolutely. >> Here's a piece of paper we [ __ ] made. up. Quiet. >> That's another thing. I don't even know. how these guys I mean, you have to be. taking out like private credit card. You're a really ballsy guy. If you're, you know, with a chick and you're. >> prepaid card. Thought about it. But it's. like it's like as soon as you think. about one administrative task, you're. like, "Yeah, I don't want to do that.". >> No, dude. Yeah. I know you're a bully. guy if you're [ __ ] putting your Only. Fan subscriptions on your regular like,

you know, >> wild debit card. >> It's wild. Dudes get busted. I mean, again, you're in a port hole. >> Well, then again, yeah, you start. thinking dumb. You think you can get. away or it's not even like I can It's. not even like that. >> It's not even that um like articulate. It's like I can get away with this. It's. just like, no, I'm going to do it. >> Yeah, I'm doing this. >> You're always going to get caught. I. also think like this is this is. completely just my own thought. I do. think that the fruit of a good marriage. is that or a good relationship is that. like yeah, this shit's going to come out.

eventually. Like you can only suppress. it for so long. It's going to come out. Yeah. Um and maybe it's that or maybe. it's just that guys are really [ __ ]. dumb and. >> you're in a bustorn brain. No, women. have detective brains, first of all. They're all they're on the beat. They're. tied into Yeah. to a level you can't. even comprehend in terms of like reading. like micro expressions and all this. stuff. I. >> I learned that a long time. It's like a. long time ago. It's like 100% honesty is. the only path. Otherwise, you're just. going to get busted. It's a matter of. when. >> Yeah. >> You're going to get busted.

>> And I And even going back to your point, like I what you were saying, like you. just like try [ __ ]. >> and see if you can do it. >> Yeah. I mean, that's another thing like. I don't think that guys have to be like. in the depths of despair to just try. this out. It's. >> like just [ __ ] try it out. See if you. can do it. And there's tools out there. >> Mhm. >> Why don't you, you know, leverage that? Like if there's a tool out there that. could and if you really think that you. don't have an issue with it, why don't. you just [ __ ] try it out? >> Yeah. >> See if you can do it. And if you can't,

okay, well then I'm a [ __ ] idiot and. the guys I work with are [ __ ] idiots. and we're all [ __ ] stupid. Just prove. it. Like it's like to prove us wrong. Like you know, like. >> that's I and I also I find it to be a. pretty useful bargaining chip in terms. of like just sex and marriage. I I. remember the day I was just like, "Bro, I don't even look at that [ __ ] to my. wife." A, it felt good. And B, yeah, >> I'll be like, well, just so you know, it's like, you're all I got, babe. They. love that [ __ ] too. I know. There's. nothing. There's literally nothing else. So, it's like, you know, just you let me.

know. We don't have to do it right now, but. >> and you want to give them like security. and you know, you do. >> It's it's it's the ultimate like just. keep me in mind. That's all I'm asking. Just just think about it. >> Absolutely, dude. >> Tracked days with me. That's all. [laughter]. >> Are you Are you a track were were you a. guy to like do streaks? I never I never. like a streak like I haven't looked at. porn in like 85 days. >> No, I stopped doing that. >> I'm not I was never a streaker. There's. actually. >> I used to for sure, but then I'm just. still thinking about porn all the time. So I just go like I just don't do it. anymore. >> Yeah. And I'm not. >> God forbid I fall. I'll get right back.

>> I don't think that that's like. necessarily like a bad way of. approaching it. I've actually seen guys. in the app who and we we do like street. like there there are like street counts. Um, so cuz I think in some way like it. can be good to see your progress like. it's kind of cool like you're looking in. the mirror like after you work out, right? Like you know that's kind of. cool. Um, >> yeah. But for me it was I think that's. probably how [ __ ]. >> dependent I was on it. It was like the. streak made me think. >> Yeah. >> of the porn and then that.

>> I Yep. I remember I had this one app I. think it was called Brain Buddy where I. would like and my little tree would grow. every day. Yeah, >> I remember the day my tree fell down, but I was like, it just it's like. deflating. Whereas for me, >> yeah, your tree grows and then you think. of the phallic nature of the growth. tree. >> I remember like, well, if that's hard, >> but I I lost my tree and I was like, god. damn it. And but for me, and I think. this is true with like just sobriety, like drugs in general, >> the guys who are like white knuckling it. like, [ __ ] dude, I've been sober for. six months. I think about it every day. >> You could do that, I guess. or it's like.

you have to find a deeper level of like. no it's actually. it doesn't even register as. >> a worth it or b like even pleasant in a. way where it's like and people do that. with drugs all the time. They find just. a. >> like a bigger thing that they're like. yeah like if that leads to me losing. this it this becomes more unattract. drugs becomes more unattractive. >> Yeah. No, absolutely. >> To the point where it's like it's almost. repul not like repulsive like I'm. disgusted but you're just like nah I'm. genuinely good on that rather than being. like I will do so [ __ ] bad. I wish I.

could but I can't. It's like a very. different thing. >> Yeah. No, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I I've never got into that either. Um. but like I said, you know, I guess it. could work. >> First of whatever the [ __ ] you got to do. if you get pumped on the 30day streak. But it's that's my thing. It's like I. >> Well, that's why like the surveillance. [ __ ] I think. >> Covenant Eyes. >> Yeah. Like I think here's the deal. at. first, do whatever the [ __ ] you can to. if you really don't want to look at it, just do whatever you can at first, right? >> Um, but yeah, no, I think they're like. the sober addict type of thing. Like I.

do think there's, you know, if it's just. like a. >> if you're just like living out of like. fear, I don't think that's like a. healthy way to ever get over something. >> That's true. >> But I and again it's for me it's like, you know, do you, man. Run your own. experiment. I ran the experiment. >> I was like, "Yeah, this is genuinely not. the move." And it took me like years, dude, to like and I remember just. hitting a point where I was like, "Yeah, I think I'm good off this, man." Like I. really And and you know, since then, I've just been like, "Yeah, I just don't. There's times where I'm like, damn, that.

would be sick." But I'm like, "I know. where that goes.". >> Was it before you were married or after? >> After. Well, after. And I remember I remember. like trying trying trying and then. eventually just being like, [snorts]. "Yeah, I just don't need I don't need to. do it, you It's just like I could. obviously, but it's just it's just not. it's just something I want to just kind. of like move ahead, move without, you. know. >> Did she Was it because she caught you or. was it. >> No, she caught me like five [laughter]. times. I was shameless. She would catch. me and like got me. >> Yeah, >> I really did. I really was. That's the. thing. I didn't have like that much sh I. remember being like, "Damn, this sucks.

I got caught. This is embarrassing.". >> Yeah. >> But no, I not even that. But it was just. And she never even really pressured me. She would have kind of be like, "Yeah, it's not like I'm not like stoked about. it." And I wouldn't lie. That was a big. thing. She'd be like, "Did you watch. porn?" I'd be like, "Yeah.". >> Yeah. So I always like lying to me felt. just like like no. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. I just got to the point. I'm not going to lie. >> But the Yeah. I remember it got to the. point where I was like I just for myself. I'm like I just don't want to. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Just weird. It just feels weird. It's. just like it just comes to the point. where it's like I just know if I never.

kicked it being like 70 putting the. phone down it I would have I would. eventually have jumped off a bridge. >> Yeah. No, there is a lot of guys, dude, who. >> just like 70 years old. >> Like [ __ ] guys in the app are 70. years old. It's crazy. It Well, no. It's. crazy. It's crazy because. >> so sad fear if like if death is like a. is like I'm thinking about death and. this simultaneously. One of them's I. can't have both. >> It's going to be weird with. >> the advent of the AI porn now cuz I.

wonder like if guys are going to be. like, "Well, it's not a [ __ ] woman.". Actually, >> it'll creep me. I AI people kind of. creep me out. Like when I see them, I'm. always kind of like it gives me like a. weird. >> It's gonna get to the point though. there's I think it's gonna be. indistinguishable. >> Yeah. And again, even even that it's. like what is the point of this? What is. it, sir? And if it's just to be like I'm. just trying to [ __ ] come. It's like. >> okay, you you can do this. You can you. know, but I don't know. It's it's tough. It is it's tough because again for for. myself it's like and it's like it's kind. of almost a curse. I have a high libido.

I'm like I I would like always tell my. wife like I need to [ __ ] go and like. I I genuinely get to the point where. I'll. >> I like will have trouble sleeping like. for like and it's purely physiological. like I can't [ __ ] sleep and I know. exactly what it is. >> So I get that and there's like you know. but for me it's like you know and that's. >> just however you want to play it you. know it's like. >> I don't know you got you just got to. figure out it's not like if you do this. your life will be ruined but it's like. if you weigh heavy on one side versus. weighing heavy on another. It's like. personally I feel like just abstaining.

from it in general. >> Yeah. I mean there's a lot of guys who. are looking at porn who have on this. like you know you look at that guy's. life you're like that guy has a great. life. >> He's chilling. >> He's a and I'm sure he's here's the. thing. He is a good husband and he is a. good father. >> Um. >> I would be a fool to condemn a porn. Yeah. Like you're that's like trust me. Yeah. >> No, but there's again but there's like. we talked about like there are like. levels to this. Like you could level up. You could like you'll probably be a. better husband and a better father if.

you. >> I agree. I think that's a fair way to. >> you can kick it. >> Well, dude, let's uh let's munch. Let's. get some lunch. >> Let's do it. >> All right. Adios, everybody. Anything. else you want to. >> Oh, yeah. Uh join relay.app. Can I plug. it? >> Yeah, please. >> do it. Do it. Um like I said, to the. guys who actually are, you know, [ __ ]. in it, who need, you know, some help or. the guys who are just like, "This isn't. [ __ ] real." Um I don't know. Just try. it out. Um, yeah. I'm also going to. start this Beehive uh newsletter where.

I'm not going to actually talk about. porn, but I'm going to talk about other. ways to improve your life. >> Nice. >> Um, >> I thought you were talking about the. Beyonce fan base. [laughter]. >> What the [ __ ] Oh, is that what I Dude, I do not. Is that real? >> Yeah. >> Oh, that's funny. >> Is that true? >> Yeah, the Beehive. >> The Beehive is the Beyonce fan. >> Well, yeah. So, I'm starting a Beehive. newsletter about Beyonce and all of her. [laughter]. happenings and what she's doing. No. Um, yeah, I'm going to probably call it Take.

It or Leave It. Um, there you go. >> Yeah, take it or leave it. >> Um, so yeah, even and I don't know. [ __ ] [ __ ] but I do know. >> like what I [ __ ] up at, so there you. go. >> Yeah. So, yeah, but join relay.app. Um, I think the guys, what is it? Um, MSSP. That's a little promo code you can. use that I. >> Oh, nice. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, put that. We'll. give you a free trial. If you don't like. it, you don't think it [ __ ] does. anything, we'll give you your money. back. So,

>> beautiful. >> Yeah, man. Thanks for having me. >> Of course. Cool. >> Thank you. >> Watch new episodes of Matt and Shane. Secret podcast on Spotify. >> Do it.