Travis Stevens: Judo, Olympics, and Mental Toughness | Lex Fridman Podcast #223

the following is a conversation with. travis stevens. 2016 olympic silver medalist in judo and. one of the greatest american judoka ever. but his story is inspiring not because. of that olympic medal but because of the. decades of injury hardship incredible. battles against the best in the world. wrapping up in close heartbreaking. losses at the 2008 and 2012 games all of. which eventually led to that very silver. medal in 2016. as we talk about in the podcast travis.

is also someone who is largely. responsible for me getting into judo for. which i will forever be grateful. he also happens to be now my judo coach. and mentor. i'll release a video of travis and i. doing some judo in a few days. to support this podcast please check out. our sponsors in the description. as a side note let me say a few words. that i've written down. about the olympic games and the. international olympics committee. i'm visiting family has the t-shirt.

but i had to pull away to write and to. say these words. because this very video was taken down. by youtube as per the request of the ioc. you know it's serious when a russian. takes time away from family food and. drink. i am heartbroken to see continued. incompetence greed and corruption on the. part of the ilc in failing to do as the. olympic charter states to quote ensure. the fullest coverage and the widest.

possible audience in the world for the. olympic games end quote. i want to give you two facts first they. do not make most of the videos of the. games available for replay anywhere that. is accessible searchable and. discoverable whether funded by ads or by. subscriptions for example on youtube or. their own service it is not available. anywhere. second in the most absurd violation of. the olympic charter they've uploaded all.

of the videos of the 2012 2016 and the. 2020 slash. olympics to youtube. and they set all of these videos to. private. this results in a situation like my. four-hour conversation that you're. watching now with travis stevens being. taken down due to us including a few. seconds of a small video overlay of. travis's epic match against ole bishop. in 2012 this is done automatically as.

per the request of the ioc. i have the video due to having screen. recorded it from 2012. here you have travis stevens. an olympic silver medalist. someone who spent his entire life. overcoming injuries losses hard weight. cuts periods of no financial. psychological support culminating in the. biggest heartbreak of his career. in this one match and this match is. available nowhere online not for free. not for one million dollars.

our showing short clips of it results in. the ioc taking it down not demonetizing. it taking it down blocking it. the ioc silences this amazing story of. travis stevens of heartbreak that. eventually led to triumph. and there are thousands of stories like. it stories that are supposed to inspire. the world. to me and to billions of others the. olympic games give a chance to celebrate. and to be inspired by the greatest. stories of human flourishing in the face.

of hardship and incredibly long odds or. dominance in the pursuit of perfection. at levels previously thought to be. impossible. the olympic games inspired kids. like me. to dream and to work hard to achieve in. our own lives the same moments of magic. and greatness. small or big that the olympic games. reveal. i believe the members of the ilc are. good people. but people who forgot the dream the fire.

that was sparked and burned in their. hearts when they first saw the olympics. as kids. they've allowed the gradual corruption. of their own human spirit and thereby. have robbed the world of this very fire. the fire of the olympic torch. the fire that ought to burn in the eyes. and hearts of kids watching the olympics. today daring to dream daring to be great. please. please do better. the world needs you the world needs the.

olympic games. this is the lex friedman podcast. and here's my conversation with travis. stevens. judo is a martial art a sport a set of. techniques ideas and philosophies can we. start by uh maybe you giving a big. picture overview of what is judo. to somebody who's like outside of the. whole spectrum of grappling sports yeah. judo was originated in japan that was. used as a police tactic for self-defense.

and. you know subduing people it's the art of. being able to throw somebody to the. ground and hold and control the. situation. um i think it's pretty much evolved. since then though you know it's. as you include like the sport aspect of. it it's. it's grown to be something more and more. dynamic. and it's kind of gotten away from that. so the basics is. people wear something called a ghee yep. which i think.

nicely mimics like outdoor clothing yep. like a jacket. and uh they start on the. feet and there's uh. they get to grip each other and the. scoring works by. the more badass the throw is the more. points you get and if. you throw the person. big. and hard. on their back. you win the match and it's over and. that's called an e-pawn yep which is. equivalent to a knockout so i guess. there's no knock-downs no judo we don't.

count those yeah they gotta hit their. back and they gotta hit it with force. and so there's a huge incentive for the. big throws. and. there's also the drama. of. somebody catching you off guard with a. surprise big throw and it's over yep. there's there's two ways of losing. really there's the. i saw this coming. right like you just. you see it but you can't stop it. and those ones tend to be the ones you.

can live with the ones that are like. really hard to live with are the ones. you never saw coming right because that. just shows that. that person has really outglassed you. right so there's like a set of a small. set of throws maybe you can go through. them that are like. you saw it coming but you couldn't do. anything about it and then there's the. set of throws that are more like. surprises so first of all the counters. or if you fake one thing and go the. other way. then that's a surprise and it's like oh. shit you off balance the person.

because they think you're going one way. and then you go the other way and. there's this oh shit moment all of a. sudden yeah your back is just slammed on. the ground one other one i mean you're. good of many throws but one of them is a. that i think reveals the beauty of judo. is the foot sweep yep. there's something about the off balance. and the timing that if you catch him. right all of a sudden it's like i had. the same feeling when i went skydiving. like all sudden the ground is not under. you anymore yeah and you just you go.

weightlessness for like a split second. and you realize you've lost like all. control of your limbs like. it's like zero gravity right like you. just you can't turn you can't rotate you. can't do much of anything and then. before you know it you've hit the floor. yeah. it's a cool feeling when you get. thrown. um because you hope to do the same thing. to another person it's like you're you. just hit the ground hard because it's. not you didn't see it coming it wasn't a. big throw that got loaded up. it's like all sudden the surprise and.

then. like. this like feeling your back just slams. and there's like the air's up. yeah and the worst is when you get hit. twice with one throw right because. sometimes like the guy throwing you. didn't expect you to leave either so you. hit. and then that guy comes down like a. second and a half later and it's like. boom boom and then the wind is just gone. from you yeah. those are the worst and then there's the. disappointment like then the the. intellectual the cognitive part comes in.

where you're like oh shit i just lost. yep and you don't have like. a connection to why. right it's almost like you've just like. you didn't literally get a concussion. like you and you understand and remember. everything but you can't figure out how. this just happened. right those are the those are the tough. ones to deal with actually have you had. moments like that yeah where you don't. understand how it happened you have to. watch footage to understand what. happened even when you watch it you're. just like. i don't get it like why wasn't i in a.

position to stop this. it makes zero sense. conceptually when you watch it you're. like i understand how to play defense i. understand. it looks like i'm in a defensive. position but at the end of the day. i still got thrown yeah you were talking. about what is it a 2008. match. you have a. non-traditional gripping style yeah. that's accurate to say but and then. you're going against another. right-handed player and then there's.

some kind of fake. that he did. and then. he caught you yep can you can you. describe the throw he caught you with he. caught me with a drop sail. but he. he kind of like we were engaged we were. looking at each other and. we were kind of at like a stalemate. right he couldn't really advance i. couldn't really advance and he kind of. just let his gaze like. wander off to the right like he was. looking at something and then i kind of. like.

what's over there and then i got thrown. and it's like so first of all uh for. people don't know uh. sayonagi drop means when you drop to. your knees and uh sanagi is one of the. fundamental throws of judo that's just. just a handful but does that actually. ever work. i always wondered that about like. boxing or judo. does the head movement of the person. work because we're still like kind of. dogs at heart if you look somewhere with. a dog the dog is gonna look that.

direction as well does that actually. work ever it does um. but on a greater sense. what you try to do is not necessarily. get like a physical reaction of a look. but a lull of security where like. they've almost like relaxed for that. split second because you've. lured them into like a sense of comfort. and then that's when you can strike. so you have this. speaking of senagi you have this. gigantic uh standing synagogue yep.

and um you have a specific grip one of. our challenges is there's a large number. of people that listen to the audio. version of this. so we're gonna have to try to describe. some of the stuff uh i'll do my best to. try to describe with words but uh you. have you grip with your left hand on the. lapel of the jacket. or like that area yep. and uh there's kind of a lean into the. person and i suppose is there a feeling. of a lull there that you're trying to. get to where you're just it feels like.

you're both calmly dancing before you. turn your hips and go in for the throw. i'm actually trying to. create. a a sense of weightlessness for my lead. leg which would be my right leg. and. a sense of resistance from my partner. so you aren't you both kind of leaning. into each other and it creates like an. a-frame. yeah but when the a-frame is held. together at the top half which would be.

my left hand and their right hand posted. on each other's chest it means our legs. are free to move and our hips are free. to move right and they're not gonna feel. your leg move because of the. weightlessness and is there a feeling. like for them is there feeling like. nothing bad can happen here we're all. relaxed everything's fine. yeah. and then they're standing off at a funny. angle and before they know it i've spun. and my back is on their chest and they. can't go anywhere yeah. yeah uh how did you first develop that. throw so for people um.

it's called ippon seinagi which means. your right hand goes under their like. armpit area. and that that's like a vice that. connects you to them yeah and then they. get go on for the ride yep the. interesting thing with the standing one. is uh as opposed to drop sanagi version. the drop saying you kind of um. drop under them and because there's the. vice they're like pulled. pulled under and like over yeah.

with the standing one i suppose there's. some similar physics but you're kind of. loading them onto your hip. and so they're in the air. while you're standing still. there's there's a there's a sense in. which they're. like you're lifting them above. where they started yes. that's how you get the really big error. yeah if obviously if. um. if everything is right so how did you. first develop that how did you first i. first learned just learning like the.

very basics of the throw you know foot. placement all that kind of stuff and. then. you know like anything the basics are. nice. um but once you get good at the basics. it's it's very easy to stop but it gives. you a good like fundamental platform to. learn off of and. to expand off of. and then i expanded when i first started. watching koga the new wind right because. he's the one that first like. introduced that split hip style sanagi.

that i do. once i. learned that one i built. about eight different variations of sayo. off that one start position. that way i could regardless of your. defense i had an answer for a throw so. why that one though why can you uh can. you describe love to me travis stevens. why did you fall in love with that throw. in particular. um it. it was really a sense of. you know one of my shortcomings as a kid.

like. i hate. leg day in the gym i hate it with a. passion i. if you ask me to do a squat i'll i'll. get it done. but i will bitch and moan every step of. the way i hate it i remember one time i. was at the gym with my trainer and he. goes okay we're gonna do front squats. and i want you to put 225 on the bar and. i was like i can't do that. and he was like what do you mean you. can't do that and i go. i physically i can't do that and he was. like. are you serious and i go yeah so he's he.

didn't believe me we put 225 on the bar. and i bottomed out. and then he was like okay let's go down. to 185 and i was like i can't do that i. just it's not happening you probably. couldn't strength wise you just refuse i. just mentally i cannot wrap my head. around like this ain't happening i'm not. doing it so i ended up your man like. principal. 95 pounds on the bar i got you with a. front squat no problem by the way body. weight squats are rough too. psychologically so yeah i just when it. comes to my legs like.

i want no part of like. leg pressing single leg squat split. squat any of that no part of it so you. think like the more traditional variance. of saying i can require you to have that. leg strength yeah that mass like when. you watch japanese judo players like. their thighs and their hips they're. thick. they got a lot of power there so you're. almost like always dropping a little bit. into a squat position for mine never no. no no not you sorry for the the. traditional ones yeah and so the split. hip.

the split hip actually allows me to keep. my legs straight yeah and the farther i. split my legs the lower my center of. gravity goes now i don't need my legs. yeah perfect love it let's do it so. that's the way you were thinking about. it okay yeah um but it's uh you know the. interesting thing about it is because. you know as i mentioned to you i've. gotten to judo after first watching you. in the uh olympics and then uh watching. koga as well and so you start imitating. the people you first see. and then you take it to judo coaches and.

they're like no no no that's the wrong. way to do it. and happens all the time it drives me. nuts drives me nuts i was in poland one. time. teaching a camp. and i had two coaches. anti-coaching. telling their kids not to do sayo the. way i do it because it never works yeah. it's crazy how do you have the fortitude. and the guts to just go on with a throw. that's not traditional a variant that's. not traditional.

if you think about it. you know from a very. basic like root of it. there's a philosophy and a mentality of. judo of how the throes work. right there's a mechanical structure. there like. this makes sense if i follow that. principle i can do anything i want. nothing else matters as long as we. follow those core principles so in the. early days even. even then you were able to think on your. own yeah and i was able to develop a.

pattern for my foot placement. based on my opponent's height. because. the number one thing any judo coach will. tell you is you need your center of. gravity below yours. well now i now i know exactly where to. put my feet because the shorter you are. the bigger the split because the lower i. need to get the taller you are the less. of a split i need. is there something you can say about. fundamental principles of judo is there. over all that time not 20 over 20 years.

that you've been doing judo. uh it's not approaching 30 is it. yeah it's it's yeah getting it's going. getting there okay. we're a couple years away let's get in. there. um. is there some like. principles that have emerged like you. said you have to have your center of. gravity below theirs yeah is there other. kind of both on the gripping side the. footwork side. leverage. anything you can speak to there's some. that. have withstood like.

time like. you have to be able to get below their. center of gravity because you have to be. able to rotate them. around their center of gravity and then. the other one is. that was always a principle when i was. growing up and i didn't change until. later on in my career was you have to be. able to pull. you need to be able to pull to get them. off balance. but when you think about that statement. as a whole it ended with they have to be. off balance. i don't need the pull to get you off.

balance i just need you off balance. and when you think about it that way it. allows you to open up the doors to. what do i need to do to get you off. balance i could push pull i could flinch. i could fake and you could put yourself. in your own off balance state. right when you think about people who. wrestle right if i fake shoot it causes. you to over lean forward which means. you're off balance. there's no pull there's no push there's. no nothing i just get a reaction that.

leaves the opportunity in the door open. for an attack. and that off balance could be very. subtle it could be very subtle and the. better you get and the more skills you. get. the less subtle it is. so we should also mention that there is. something called forward throws. where you. throw the person. you know they they're going to fly. facing forward they're going to fly. forward and then a backward throw is. they're going to fly back yep and then.

there's lateral you know they actually. go sideways over like a cartwheel almost. okay so the forward throws there's the. one we've been talking about which is uh. say nagi and there's a bunch of. different variants ippon marote seinagi. there's drop and there's standing. versions of them and that all. i don't know if there's a way to. summarize it. but that's like as clean as uh getting. your center of gravity under theirs. as it gets. and then the rest is just gripping. variations yep i guess it's all gripping.

variations on all of these throws but um. and then uh there's. uh in terms of forward throws there's. the other big one in competition is. uchimada. which is. i don't know we can try to explain that. one but it uh ends up being where. one or you're standing on just one of. your feet. and the other one is up in the air and i. don't know if you put in that same. category haragoshi like.

those kinds of throws where you're kind. of a little bit single footed yeah and. so there's two footed techniques and. then there's a single footed yeah oh. goshi where it's like. you're doing a mix between the uchimada. and. it's a hug. you you hug a person and then you turn. your hips around such that you're now. hugging facing the same direction when. it comes to forward throw there's. regardless of the name of the throw or.

the gripping variation that you're using. the whole principle is how do i get this. person to do a forward roll in midair. and land on their back. the more of a forward roll i can get the. bigger the score if i get like. a quarter of a turn where like you land. on your side and you don't go over your. back it's a half score yeah but they all. require me to get you to do that forward. rolling action so just if we think of. one person if they do this nice. leap forward and they do a roll and.

their back nicely rolls over the ground. you're trying to do the exact same thing. with you connected to them well and if. it's nice and it's smooth it's probably. not a full score it needs to have like. somewhat of a violent impact. right so if you think of a drop saying. agi if i. if i'm moving too slow. and you still roll over your shoulders. and there's no direct impact it's only a. half score right they want the force. the force the violence that's good.

okay uh so then uh. in terms of uh backward throws. the traditional ones there's stuff where. you trip them. from outside their body like osotogari. it's a trip where you hook your leg onto. their leg and you trip them but your. hook it goes outside of their legs and. then there's the trips from inside. their body there's uh one foot is called. kuchigari and then the other is ochigari.

it doesn't matter the the most important. thing is outside and inside. uh and then there's like i don't even. know how you throw them sideways except. foot sweeps and then there's the foot. sweeps where you can. sweep one of their legs from out of them. or both their legs at the same time. and like we were talking about this kind. of. is when timed perfectly it's it's. effortless for everybody involved and uh. the ending like you said is big dramatic. and violent yeah.

is there other kind of oh yeah there's. uh sacrifice techniques. there's a bunch of them. and that ultimately the variations have. to do with uh gripping but you're. basically you the attacker fall onto. your back. sticking your legs somewhere on. onto their body which is like this. fulcrum over which they fly and do that. same kind of role that you mentioned you. basically sacrifice your back to the mat. in order to throw them into that. circular pattern so they hit their back.

sometimes we use a foot sometimes we. don't and so we should probably say. it's okay for you to go on to your back. as long as you're clearly demonstrating. control over the other person's body. correct you can't go to your back in the. same direction that your opponent is. trying to put you to your back right you. have to go the other way or you have to. initiate. you going to your own back. right. uh like clearly and then um and then.

there's all the counters which almost. kind of. have a whole group of their own even. though they have. echoes of the same types of techniques. it seems like they're their own whole. thing yeah but they follow the same. principles it's just most. counters like if you wanted to counter. enuchimata for example. you're trying to throw me in a. somersault over my right shoulder. therefore i would counter you by. throwing you over your left shoulder.

it goes in the opposite shoulder. direction but in the same somersault. idea. and there used to be. i already at this point forget the years. but it might be 20 before the 2012. olympics where they banned uh you you. used to be allowed to grab legs in the. same way you do in wrestling so you have. basically all the techniques you would. have in wrestling. available to you if you would like. yeah it's just that some of the. techniques in wrestling are not that. effective for getting your opponent your.

to their back. wrestlers want to take the other person. down in any way possible and have. control judo wants to take you down like. we said in a big fashion where your back. slams on the ground yeah it has to be to. the back a lot of wrestling take downs. happen because they get behind them yeah. and then they they part tear out yeah. so uh but judo banned all touching of. the legs which is very dramatic change. at the sport but also 2012. after it was. after 20 it was in 2012 so 2008 i fought.

the games and everything was free. in 2012 we could only touch the legs as. a. defensive action or. in response to an attack so i could try. to throw you with a. normal throw and then when you try to. counter i could grab your leg. right so that there uh had to be a. secondary technique and didn't like. didn't they disqualify. on a first offense first offense was a. direct disqualification which happened.

at the 2012 games to the 57 brazilian. who won in 16 yeah she was dq'd and i. think the quarters yeah and it was like. i wouldn't say it was blatant as much as. i don't think the act. changed the outcome of the match had. they not disqualified it so that's not. that dramatic and by the way you say 57. that refers to weight divisions and. that's in kilograms and kilograms is the. measure of weight that the rest of the. world uses in the united states does not.

um so. and there's uh we should say the. divisions for for guys. um i don't know what the 70 i don't know. slower level 16 60 66 73 81 90 100 and. heavyweight which has no ceiling. no ceiling. station yeah it is an important. distinction um. so and you competed most of your career. at 81 kilograms all of it.

all you never did never did 73. well you. had to cut big for 81 anyway especially. towards the end of my career yeah. okay. uh. i overly grew into the division what's. uh uh i'm trying to remember is that. about 180 pounds. 178.6 i think and you have to weigh in. with the the ghee no nothing. you're not allowed to wear anything. except for your underwear weigh in sorry. confusing jiu-jitsu that's right that's. right that's right that's which is very. nice.

um okay so we would you say we covered. most of the throws or no. so the there's the forward and the. backward there's the sacrifice throws. and the counters yep and the and then. there's the leg grabs and we should say. for the leg grabs that were effective. it's like um. the big pickups where you just kind of. pick them up and try to figure out once. they're in the air what the heck to do. with their body to get them to the. ground you just kind of figure it out as. you go i think the really nice one that.

was to me heartbreaking as a fan to see. go is. i guess what's called the fireman's. carry. which is uh. you know it does lead to judo like. beautiful throws and the fact that that. was gone is is that one i missed a. little bit but then a bunch of people i. guess came up with the variance where. you don't need to grab the leg. it's definitely not as effective as. being able to grab it but i'm also on. the side of the fence having competed in.

all three. it was definitely better for the sport. to remove it. as a whole. it's probably good to cover sort of the. whole spectrum of rules of judo is uh. there's groundwork so there's uh you do. all the stuff on the feet where you're. trying to murder each other with a giant. throw but then you know if the throat. doesn't succeed you go to the ground and. you stay on the ground for some amount. of time like short amount of time you. have to move quickly you have to be. attacking and. two of the ways you can win.

is similar to people who do jiu jitsu's. you can submit them. uh chokes arm breaks all that kind of. stuff no foot locks. and uh. and you can also. pin them yep which is get around their. legs and this is very. no this is not like wrestling you have. to actually get around their legs. and uh pin them and. what indigest is called side control. mount all kinds of ways that doesn't. involve their legs yeah and then you pin. them for like whatever 20 seconds 25. seconds yeah 20 seconds now i think the.

distinction is. their back has to be facing the mat. you have to be past their legs and your. chest has to be on the same plane as. theirs yeah so it doesn't have to. necessarily be on top but it has to be. on the same plane yeah and all of this. is. i think. different sports of different versions. of this but it's like. an approximation of what dominance looks. like yeah so pin and wrestling is. dominating your opponent presumably if. you're in a street fight that position.

allows you to then do a lot of damage. obviously submissions is dominance. because you're breaking their arm or. choking them to uh. unconscious. and then obviously the throw. which is not often. talked about but like if you talk about. a street. fight situation a throw. is like the best way to murder somebody. like this could end anyone's life yes. it's terrifying actually so okay so. these are all elements of dominance.

so. going back to set of principles you're. mentioning. getting your center of mass under theirs. which i think applies for type of um. like the forward say nagi throws is. there is there other stuff. um obviously you mentioned off-balance. yep there's the off-balance one where. you can either pull to get an off. balance. or you can give way to the force. which can also lead to an off balance. um. you can amplify somebody's force to so.

for example. if you push me. you expect a certain. reaction that you're ready for. but if you push me and i pull you. now you didn't expect that much force. coming out of you therefore you're off. balance. the thing that's distinctly recognizable. about judo. is like when done at the highest level. like it's it seems effortless when the. big throw happens yeah like that's just.

it doesn't there is no other sport like. it in the combat sports where. it's like when the timing is right. everything just is perfect i think you. you get that mma and um. boxing sometimes when this is another. scout yeah perfect strike just like yeah. where they it but it's not just like a. hard hit it's like. it's almost like the with conor mcgregor. and aldo for example when you just catch. him just right that's right. and that he didn't look like he hit him. that hard yeah but he hit him just right. yeah and like you get to see this all.

the time in judo it's fascinating and so. the beginning part of that. is because there's a jacket. there's also this whole thing that. you're master of which is like which is. gripping yeah so is there something you. can say about. are there some fundamental principles of. gripping that you can speak to. like what the hell is gripping. gripping is having the ability to. hold your opponent in such a way where. you have the ability to be offensive. and also the ability to be defensive at.

the same given time. and. [Music]. it's a distinction because i can hold. you in such a way where. i might be able to feel offensive. but if you can take a purely defensive. grip and then i can't be offensive we. are no longer gripping we are holding. each other. right. right so like that would be the act of. being able to grip is to be in a. situation where you have me and i have.

you and i can play both offense and. defense at the same time where you can. only play defense. so donahue talks about like jiu jitsu. that way and not that way but maybe you. can see if there's a distinction so you. have a set of weapons the other person. has a set of weapons you want to. sort of maximize the use of your weapons. and shut down. the set of weapons that they have that. they have. you see gripping the same way on the on. the feet. i do if we want to include body. positioning with our gripping.

all right okay because i can give you. any grip you want and you still can't. throw me because i can put myself in a. position that nullifies your ability to. use those grips in a successful way. and those um would you say the hips are. critical to that or is it i think hips. shoulders chin position head position. you know the angle of your foot yeah. where you lean. wow okay and so uh and there's a bunch. of places you can grip obviously if. people like kind of think of a jacket.

like there's a bunch of places you can. grip that are interesting so you can. grip on the collar. you can grip on the sleeves you can grip. like at the elbow joint yeah and you. could do uh those bad ass like. eastern european georgian over the back. back over the opposite sides of the. heads yeah yeah the koreans that grab on. one side around the head with their. hands together yeah there's something. really nice about just those like i mean. especially george just throwing that.

hand yeah just over the person and just. it's you're not actually gripping a belt. or anything you're gripping just the. entirety of like as opposed to being all. nice so i'm gonna grab this part of the. jagger this part of the jacket you're. just like taking the whole fucking. jacket and just launching somebody for. those people that can't picture. judo think about it in like if you. understood like what a boxing match. looks like. and you thought about that as like. traditional gripping. when you throw like a russian grip over.

the back that's more like a hockey fight. like i'm just grabbing you and we're. just gonna. we're gonna be throwing punches left and. right because when we have that grip. somebody has to get thrown yeah there's. no there's no we don't walk around with. this grip it's it's go time once. somebody throws it. to me as a as a fan and sort of amateur. practitioner. there's two styles of olympic level judo. one is where you're trying not to get. thrown. and the other is where you're trying to.

throw. more specifically when you're trying not. to get thrown there's like the strategy. they're using gripping to. nullify their offense and all those. kinds of stuff you're you're being very. clever and strategic and all that you. know maybe using conditioning. and then there's people who just like. step in the pocket. and they don't almost don't care if. they're getting thrown because they have. the confidence that they're going to. throw first yep and those like there's a. clear distinction between the people. that do one or the other and i think.

both can be done extremely successfully. at the highest level it's just like. obviously you admire the people that. step in the pocket and and i think when. you look at the people who do judo. the best like if we want to talk about. like. the top 10 percent of the people who. would compete at the games. they do both. and they do both. really well but they favor one. because. if you look at a player like uh.

lutetiliani of georgia for example. there's a guy that stands in the pocket. but we can find numerous occasions where. he's hustled some people for like a. short period of time to get out of. scenarios to. elongate the match to make somebody. tired. so you want both sides of the coin. but you better pick the one that. you know eighty percent of your strategy. is going to be built around. sorry for the romantic question but i. talked to dan gable and uh.

he always looked to the russians as um. as the artists in wrestling. and uh he always wanted to be an artist. but i think he's known for being that. sort of uh guts aggression mental. toughness guy but he always was drawn to. the artistry of wrestling it's hard to. know when you just. watch you because it looks like you're. aggressive and you got the guts and the. mental toughness but there's also. obviously a mastery of technique which. would you lean towards in terms of.

what accounts for your success and just. the way you approach judo is it the. the guts the aggression the mental. toughness. and or is it the mastery of technique. the artistry. mine would be my. my aggressiveness if i'm gonna pick. those two areas. um. but i think there's a third area in. there that i would put myself in where. i'm more of a strategist. i look at all of my opponents.

and all i ever see is their faults. and the way i do judo is built around. their faults. and it's just i put myself in scenarios. where i don't even know how i'm going to. win. but what i've done in those scenarios is. i've made it very difficult for you to. win. and then i figure out the rest as i go. like how do you study an opponent. are there bins you can put them in like.

there's a lefty and a righty or yep. this kind of stuff how many bins are. there in judo in your mind that you put. your opponents in. yeah there's probably about 20. there's like certain players who you. could put in a category of like. they're only good for the first you know. two-thirds of the match. after that they turn into a different. player where they're either falling into. a sense of panic. or uncertainty and you can if you were.

to take a video clip of let's say. church's philly right they got george. and i beat in the olympic semi. he's somebody that would beat you in the. first three minutes and if you clipped. out all of his matches and you only. watched the first. three minutes of every match you would. see one style. if you found all the matches where he. got taken into the last minute. and he wasn't winning by a. a major score. you would see a completely different. fighter. and so going into like my olympic semi i.

put him into that category of like i. want to get to this guy because this guy. is beatable. the trick is how do you get there how do. you get there and by the way we're. talking about the 2016 olympics where. you won the silver medal you're part of. uh three different olympics but the. cardio. aspect of it. have you faced exhaustion often in your. matches where you have to go deep and go. like past. yeah but that's not from.

the judo side of it that's from like i. did a very bad job of making weight it's. always the way cut yeah it's always the. weight cut. and i think people really struggle. with that they blame cardio and training. and everything else but. when it really comes down to it like we. train for an hour and a half two hours. twice a day. how are you tired after five minutes. right right it becomes into a mental. struggle your anxiety your stress your. lack of belief in yourself.

or in my case sometimes it's poor. nutrition sometimes i had one too many. mcdonald's meals it just. it happens okay so let's talk about wig. cutting real quick. so. i've i've seen weight cutting. break some of the toughest. fighters wrestlers grapplers ever like. burn out break like where they makes you. want to quit the sport yep um so you. know this is what people don't often. talk about but mentally is one of the. hardest things especially when you're.

doing it kind of wrong. because it becomes a mental war. um so you competed like you said your. whole career at 81 kilograms. you walked around at. 88 89. so about 15 pounds. sometimes 20 pounds. over that give or give or take. and so what uh. what was your process like mentally and. physically first of all maybe you can. comment on when the weigh-ins are. relative to the mattress and then what.

was your process like leading like a. week ahead a day ahead. an hour ahead minutes ahead of the the. weigh-in. man everyone. varies tremendously because we're not. like. most sports because you're dropped off. in foreign countries with. who knows what right some places have. sauna some places have treadmills. i went to a place one time in china in. the middle of winter where the roads. were frozen with ice and we had to use.

our hotel rooms because. it was you couldn't sweat outside. because it was too cold right. um and every one of my olympics the. weight cut was different just given my. mass when i went to 2008 i was probably. like. 80 to 83 kilos walking around so weight. cutting wasn't a thing for me. in. london we actually weighed in the. morning of so weigh-ins were at like 6. a.m. and the olympics were always beneficial.

to me because they actually don't start. until like 10 or 11. so you actually were able to recover. where on the circuit you would weigh in. at 6am and the competition started at. 8am it's like well i was cutting weight. at 5am. and most of it for people who are not. familiar but maybe you can also correct. me. most of it you're really just getting. the water out of your system it was. water at that point yeah. like 24 hours before even like so are. you like an hour before. but yeah but like leading up to it um.

and do have you eaten the day before do. you try to minimize the amount of food. in your system my weight cutting process. was a little bit different than than. most people because. i like to eat. um. i'm not. i'm not the type of person that believes. your athletic career is determined by. your nutrition. right i don't i don't believe that i. think some sports are built that way but. when it comes to combat sports like.

you know your ability to knock somebody. out has nothing to do with whether you. had a cheeseburger or a salad. my ability to throw you is not. determined by that i may be able to. perform better because i've eaten a. certain way. but not enough to justify an entire diet. change. your body is built and my body is built. to operate with certain things that i've. had in my system for years. yeah i think. i'm with you but i also believe that. there's a.

mental aspect so if you're surrounded by. people that tell you diet matters. then if your diet is off you're going to. believe you're going to be off because. the people around you tell you your diet. should be good so yeah. i think it's like. it's the same i i've had an argument. with matthew walker who's uh. who's a sleep scientist about sleep and. it's like if you believe sleep is. essential it's essential to get eight. hours of sleep every single night. perfectly. then you're going to be very stressed. when you don't get it and then i think.

it will negatively affect the stress. will negatively affect your longevity in. all kinds of aspects of your life. if you actually just learn to truly. listen to your body become a scientist. for your own body with sleep and food it. might end up that it will be the eight. hours a night or whatever but it might. be something else and probably die here. i remember when i was meeting with the. usoc nutritionist after. london it was probably around. [Music]. 2014 i think. and. when we had our team meeting at the.

beginning of the year and i was talking. to him he was talking about the. nutrition plans that he could put us on. and i was like time out i've done the. usoc thing like i've done the couscous. i've done the lemon in my water. i go. i'm full shit the kind of goose. oh boy like there was just because. there's like a cookie cutter plan right. right and i was like. look here's what i want you to do i go. i'll listen to you. but you're going to walk into the. 7-eleven across the street from the usoc. and if you can't buy it in that 7-eleven.

it's not on my plan right. i go because i go to places where. the only thing i can eat is pringles and. a snickers bar. i've done that like i've flown to. azerbaijan stayed in a hotel where the. restaurant is closed usa judo hasn't. paid for the meal plan. and the only thing that's available is. the thing across the street so you were. eating. pringles before fighting a grand slam. event while cutting 20 pounds and and a. snickers bowl yeah. that's the visual of that that's some.

like that's some rocky shit okay build. me a nutrition plan go for it because. i'm not paying my own way. to travel with. 14 days of food. right i mean that's that's one of the. magic of your whole career and also judo. i mean i'm sorry to say of course you. want athletes to be super rich. and super well funded from an athlete. perspective and the sport to be popular. and managed in an ultra-competent way. but. that's not reality but as a fan it's fun.

to watch somebody like you who's. exceptionally driven has to suffer in. all these different interesting ways. it's only suffering if you expect the. other side right i don't expect it i. accept it for what it is which is why i. write off nutrition for athletes right. because it can be done without it as. long as you know to what you said before. like. you don't believe you need it. some people believe they need it. so the mind getting your mind right is.

the most important thing you know what i. believe i need what's that a snickers. bar when i'm tired. i want a little bit of sugar makes me. feel better. you want me to see you. uh what are you gonna do. yeah so. i just love the the the visual of you. eating his thinking but that's what it. became but that became part of my. nutrition plan. when the usoc guy wrote my nutrition. plan i was eating a burrito bowl. with brown rice white meat chicken black. beans guacamole cheese two chocolate.

chip cookies and a diet coke this is. like chipotle uh it was below co but. same concept same same concept because. chocolate chip cookies because i needed. the sugar i was. i was. 88 kilos when i stepped on the scale at. six point three percent body fat. now i got to make 81. what really yeah. and the usoc was like hey.

you know you can't you can't fight 81. anymore you have to fight 90s and i go. i'm already into the quad. i'm not changing i go. build me a plan where i can do this and. now we have to have an acceptable weight. cut like it just what do you want me to. do i'm not the ijf i can't just change. the fact that it takes two years to. qualify. i know where i'm at i know what i have. to go through and i accept the. consequences it is what it is we want. all right so what was the process i mean.

can you can you speak too so you you. wake up early in the morning the the day. of the weigh-ins a few hours before. technically my weight cut never started. until i got off a plane. and to a hotel. and how many hours three days. so it's a three day cut to three days. mentally you're thinking of it that way. yep and then you're still eating i eat. every day and then like what do you load. up on water maybe as you start and then. nope or the the water stops just it is.

what it is. [Laughter]. so use i mean it's a slow. you're not actually like. sweating all three days yeah. but then it's like torture to sleep. part of the process. are you able to sleep sometimes. it depends. so you're dehydrated further and further. dehydrated with six seven percent body. fat. trying to lose 10 pounds i even.

developed a way to drink water out of a. bottle where i don't drink anything but. i feel like i have. uh swishing it what's the no so like i. take like a bottle of water and like if. we were to like to draw a line on it i. would tip it and i would go like this. and you would draw that line but like. i've drink now water for 20 seconds or. whatever it is. and i feel like.

i get the fix yeah brain told me i got. there. no problem. that's amazing man you just. your mind's a very powerful tool and. the the problem a lot of people have is. they don't accept the reality of the. situation. they bitch about the reality of the. situation i just. of all you could always quit. right. yep so like you're not ex never missed. wait never never.

you can you can perform poorly you can't. miss wait don't miss way don't miss wait. because you you can always win. regardless of how bad the weight cut is. you can never win if you miss weight. but your brain is also really good maybe. not your brain. but. i know my brain i think most people's. brains are good at generating the more. desperate things become the better it's. generating excuses.

so what were you doing with your mind. that. resulted in you never. missing weight the plan. so. like i said like my weight cut would. never start until i got to the hotel. because. i didn't check my weight the morning of. i didn't check my weight when i got. there. i just while i'm traveling i'm doing. things at like a minimal level. but i'm never not giving myself. something i'm craving.

if i'm thirsty i'm drinking a diet coke. if i'm hungry. i'm buying a snickers bar i'm buying a. sandwich. i am. and i accept the consequences when i get. there and then when i get there. if i step on the scale and it says 88. kilos i instantaneously know exactly. what it's going to take to be 81. and. then you just follow like a robot follow. a very specific process yep. and then i mean because there's a lot of. seconds in three days.

seconds and minutes and you just i just. know exactly what it takes from my body. i know exactly what a one hour gym. workout wearing a sauna suit. is gonna take i know exactly what i'm. gonna lose on day one and i know exactly. what i'm gonna lose on day three because. they're not the same so i can instantly. look at a hotel. decide is there a bathroom sauna gym. temperature of the gym. access to the gym and when it is. access to the judo mats my training.

partners. the roads versus street lights the. weather outside i can take a look at. that environment and say this is my. weight this is weigh-ins and. instantaneously in my head there's a. plan to make weight and you have a sense. of how much sweat adds up to. to 10 pounds how much sweat plus time. yeah just and i make sure in my plan. all of my meals and how much water i. need in between is allocated to still. make weight because you have to eat or.

drink during that time. are you incorporating like mental. exhaustion into this. that doesn't exist. it doesn't no it doesn't do you like. meditators like what did the thoughts. come especially three days we're not. talking about four hours of suffering. i'll tell you this has broken some of. the toughest people in the world the. hardest weight cut i ever had yeah. hardest one. um i fought pan am games in 2015 in. edmonton canada on a wednesday.

and i won. so i i've made weight on tuesday. i fought on wednesday where i had to. weigh in five percent of my weight class. so 84 kilos. on wednesday i was 84 kilos i got on a. plane. on. that wednesday night and landed. friday morning in sochi. okay so i've traveled now. i got on the scale all my bags got lost.

everything so somehow i flew from. there to here. no bags and i threw all of my stuff. in my bag i wore sandals. one pair of pants and a t-shirt on the. plane because i was like. i'm just tired i just fought like i. don't even want to carry it i don't care. what are the odds that i get there my. bags are gone yeah very low very low. sure enough it's gone i get all the way. to sochi i check into the hotel there's.

one sauna. guess what you have to reserve it. and you're only allowed to reserve it. for an x period of time guess get a. small tangent. when you found out your bags are gone. this is something i'll often think about. there's like people that are helping you. right like that there's a person airport. who goes yep oops just like that and. then the person at the hotel who tells. you that you have to reserve the sauna. and looks at you like. you're. yep. they don't care that you've been.

suffering they don't know. they don't even understand why you need. it yeah like why oh you know oh this. like uh like this little kid reserved it. for five hours or something to block it. off or so i'm sorry. um is there a frustration that gets in. there are you you just accept reality. don't don't even hinder on like the. things you can't change. because the second you get frustrated. the second. you think you can change it you'll hope. on it and that breaks most men yeah. that like little thing in the back of.

their mind thinking oh like what if. there's no what if like there's only. right here right now yeah if it doesn't. work it doesn't work let's just quickly. come up with the solution to fix the. problem by the way as another small. tangent all the greatest people i've. interacted with at the highest level. think like that they don't linger on the. no it's like the next thing yeah because. like if you want to do something great. heart stuff is gonna keep happening to. you and if you're gonna let that affect. you you're not ever going to do the.

great thing yeah it's fascinating. actually like that's the one skill you. have to learn. um elon musk is great at this constantly. dealing with emergencies okay okay this. happened what's the next step yep. except it's not that big of a deal every. problem has a solution yeah. yeah. and if i can't solve it it's not my. problem. you want me to do it yeah exactly so. what uh so. you figured it out. get this i get to the hotel. i check in. i don't even know about the sauna yet i.

go. i need to find a clothing store i'm in. the middle of russia. i open up google maps and i'm like. sports store. i find an adidas sports store in the. middle of sochi russia right. i spend like 500 on like average sweats. no plastics no nothing. and no running shoes because they don't. have any what's the temperature outside. was it cold it was kind of like. springish so it wasn't cold but it. wasn't hot yeah so you still need a lot.

of layers preferably. you would need a lot of layers just to. cut the amount of weight i'm about to. tell you i have to cut because. after i bought that stuff that next. morning and mind you it's a friday it's. a friday morning i go to the venue where. we have the mats open to train and i. step on the scale. and then sagan batara mongolia goes. oh pretty good you're almost there. and i go oh no no. no i'm not. i stepped on the scale at almost 94.

kilos. and i looked at him and i was like i'm. 81. and he went. good luck. you're almost there. yeah. for the next weight class above uh the. this is on a saturday or friday morning. no no sorry friday morning the the. competition is when. sunday sunday i weigh in sunday. okay. all right like holy crap i throw on all. my layers.

and there's one other person with me. there khalida who's my girlfriend at the. time now my wife we start doing judo. because i'm like this will be the. easiest way to knock off like three or. four kilos. well it's cold i have no ghee. and i'm working out with a female i. can't get like overly physical to like. really get my muscles going to really. break that sweat because she has to. compete in a dare to do this she's not a. training partner you can't just use this. person.

i stepped on the scale i was 91 kilos so. i went well i was a nice dent but like. workout yeah i go that's that's not. going to fly. so. sure enough the clothes are now ruined. they didn't help me lose any extra. weight. so i go back to the hotel and i start. reserving the sauna. do you know how hard it is to lose that. much weight in a sauna by yourself. so it's hard on many levels but one of. them is just mental yeah. you're sitting in heat heat and you're.

not doing anything like if there had. been a bike or like the sauna was big. enough to use a jump rope or. you could do some sort of activity. but you just sit and you stew. and you're there mentally. at one point during the weight cut i. actually had my mouth on the bottom part. of the door where there was a little gap. and my legs up on the benches and kalita. holding the door. so that it didn't open so i couldn't. open it so that i could lean against. that thing and have fresh air.

because i was like i was struggling. and we're talking about i mean how many. hours is that hours and then the thing. is is because you have to reserve the. sauna i can't even take like a 30 minute. break because the sauna's not going to. be mine in an hour. which means you have to use the sauna. and the heat. for that a lot of time period. and i hate saunas yeah that is always my. last resort i would use a bath i will. train i will run i will jump rope sauna.

is like. oh let me do that for 10 minutes after. all of my gym workouts just to keep the. sweat going while i stretch and cool. down that's never like the hey i'm gonna. do five ten minute sessions because i. need to lose two kilos that is never the. plan yeah. but i mean uh. so i've done plenty of sauna for weight. cuts to know. i can't even imagine what you went. through yeah the seconds slow down. that's one way to achieve immortality is. like the time slows down to like a stop.

and. you're left alone with your thoughts you. can't do anything just like you said you. can't there's nothing worse than sitting. in that kind of heat for 10 15 minutes. yeah and then you walk out and you're. not even sweating. yeah there's nothing worse than that and. if you like it maybe if you weigh. yourself which you should probably. shouldn't be doing because it'll break. you yep you haven't lost anything yep. and i was weighing myself every time. because. i only get breaks when i was hitting. weight allotments so if i could lose .3.

in 10 minutes i'd give myself a break. but i had to hit certain numbers. because i only have the sauna for a. certain amount of time and i remember. one time i went downstairs to get my key. to the sauna and the japanese team had. reserved it and took it from me. because the guy didn't put my name on. the list when i called down to get the. sauna so i lost an entire session that i. had to get made up towards the later. part of the day because i still have no. running shoes. and then sure enough. my bags show up 30 minutes after.

williams. great. that's like uh the universe just kind of. giving you a little wink there yeah. i think like. because so few people do this weight cut. at this high of a level people don't. often realize because people get a sense. of how hard it is to run 200 miles in. the desert. like they get because they go outside. here in texas you can run five miles oh. it's hard but like the weight cut is. really.

i can you so you just uh like how did. you do it. just fucking not refusing to you have to. make weight you have to make way and you. just that's. i am astounded when i hear like. ufc plighters like. miss weight. right like. when jaden cox missed weight at the. olympic trials i was like. at least his was understandable because.

he missed the actual weigh-ins he didn't. he wasn't like not on weight. but when ufc fighters like miss wait i'm. like. how did that happen. you clearly like gave up a long time ago. there were times where i was like. well i can't do this. there have been times where i've been. in a s in a sauna suit. wrestling with a training partner who's. probably 60 kilos who fought earlier. that day. to lose point three.

to lose point three. like are you considering your mortality. in this moment like. aren't you thinking you're gonna die. because like it's severe dehydration you. could damage your body. i do are you thinking about any of this. or no is it just. ah man. okay yes. i'm on the other level too where like. i've been in belgium right belgium there. used to be a b level tournament and the.

tournament used to go on and because i. was always on the heavier side like 81. fights on the second day which is the. heavyweight day. um weigh-ins were always at like let's. say 2pm the day before for that. tournament well there was a sauna at the. tournament i remember like being in the. sauna and like oh. i'm 80.9 kilos. weigh-ins aren't for three hours. fuck it i'm gonna have lunch. because i i mentally understand that.

what i eat right now is gonna fuel me. for tomorrow so i don't want to skip it. i have the time to put it into my system. and still lose it right. it's almost like a computer program. you're running through the process you. haven't i i get it but like that all. relies on your ability to be um. to get it back off yeah i mean but also. just like go through this process which. is painful it's like those monks who. meditate while sitting in a fire kind of. thing or something right like it that.

uh yeah it's a it's really interesting. is there other people. that are critical to this or is this all. internal to you are there people that. everybody has their own. way of doing it um some people don't cut. that much some people can't wait cut it. all. right they would rather have been like. 83 kilos fighting 90 then. you know be 83 kilos fighting 81. so why did you never move up to 90.

what's your sense. is it from your deep understanding of. your own judo and like the judo. opponents you would face at 90. and 81 because 81 is probably the. hardest if not the second hardest. division in the history of judo compared. to 73 and. 81. you know when i was a kid like. i always wanted to be like the. middleweight olympic champion like the. 81 kilo olympic champion. when i was in high school. i made a decision when i was trying to.

make weight for 73 i was like. this is i was cutting weight for 73 like. i was cutting weight at the end of my. career. right and i was like i'm just gonna bag. it. i'm gonna accept the fact that i may not. make a junior world team i may not make. this team but i'll grow into the. division so when i'm a senior player. like i'm ready to go and i'll naturally. be stronger there's an understanding of. like a growth process when you move up a. weight class. most people can't just.

oh i'm going to fight 90s and i'm going. to win because i wanted 81. the style of judo is different how you. move is different how they do things is. different there's like a learning curve. that goes into it. and because the weight cut didn't really. happen until i was getting ready for rio. i wasn't about to have my last olympic. games be at a different weight class. that i may or may not be able to grow. into. i mean this is an awesome story of you. kind of decided. that this will be your life's work in. terms of judo.

competitor is like the 81 division i'm. going to i mean i don't know if you saw. it that way but you're talking about. three olympics and it's like this. story of. i would say tragedy and triumph of just. wars and 81 kilograms with with the. usual cast of characters of the you know. top five in the world kind of thing so. you just became a scholar of that let. your body grow into it and then let your. body outgrow it and still suffer through. it to keep it in the 81 kilograms.

you never competed at like at the. highest levels at 90. i entered one. tournament at 90 kilos um and that was. because. before. rio. from 20 from the end of 2014. all the way up until rios every time i. fought i got hurt. every time. there was no time where i made weight. and got injured because my body weight. was so high my body fat was so low. that by the time i dehydrated enough to.

get down there. and you take the physicality of judo and. throw that into the mix. something broke everything. it was like nature of the beast. so the plan was before. rio. we made an agreement with usa judo that. travis you're going to fight 90 kilos. but you're not going to weigh in at 90. kilos like hey there's no like you get. to be 94 kilos and cut to 90s there's. like a you're going to step on the scale.

at 84 kilos like a little bit of a. weight cut but not a full one just so. that you feel like you get into like the. tournament because when i. around 2012 when i was talking with the. usoc nutritionist i actually got my. weight down so much that i didn't really. need to cut weight. the problem is i wasn't cutting weight i. didn't feel like i was competing got it. right there you have to go through like. that mental process. and i never really reworked that it was. easier to just cut the weight and be. ready to go.

but when i entered into the 90 kilo. division i was rushed to the hospital. the night after because my body broke. out in hives. like full body my dad they said it was. stress induced. fascinating so a month before the games. i was hospitalized and hungry. and filled with steroids to get the. hives to drop and every couple days. my body when i got back home i would end. up in the hospital because my whole body. would break out again i wonder if it's. like deviating from the process that you.

so like perfectly crafted already or it. was stressed from my mind thinking like. even though it's not. top of mind there's probably a portion. of me that like the olympics is coming. around and it could be my last. that like my body just reacted to. something chemically so i was breaking. out in hives i actually bought like a. 600u euro. hugo boss suit because when i was in the. netherlands training at the time. i thought i had bed bugs because i was.

getting bit everywhere. then i thought there was something in. the detergent at the local thing so i. threw away all my clothes. like i was paying for showers because i. was trying to get the detergent off my. body and buying new clothes at the. airport. trying to figure it out trying to figure. it out just go yeah accepting the. situation i mean but the level of stress. is exceptionally high here can we talk. about the other side. people are going to love this. but you're. um you have a long history of.

persevering through. injuries. through insane amounts of injuries. uh my ability to tolerate pain is. probably more than most people. but see injuries aren't just pain right. it's like um it's also mental like. psychological like again like the weight. cut it can make a lot of people quit yep. can you. tell your history of. injuries what are the biggest injuries. the toughest injuries in your career um.

starting from. what your early teens my early teens um. i actually got out of sports. from 11 to i say like 15 years old 16. years old because. a kid shot a double leg through my. kneecap and i partially tore all the. ligaments in my knee cartilage meniscus. the whole nine yards. and i had to learn how to walk again i. spent two years in a leg brace crutches. you know hobbling around the schoolyard.

that one was a challenge to come back. from. i've broken. most of my ribs. i won nationals with nine broken ribs. i was actually getting. novocaine shots into my chest to avoid. feeling the pain. and then wrapping them to try to. make sure i didn't pop along. i've broken my collarbone um i have five. herniated discs in my neck. i fractured my back twice.

i've broken my tailbone i tore my si. joints. i've torn my right hamstring twice my. left one once. um. [Music]. broken my ankles a few times i spun it. once in a 360 that had death surgery. fingers toes elbows shoulders. so all of these are first of all. you're um. you're tough. you're tough dude man.

so each of those have a story behind. them. so if you're talking about the. collarbone or the ankles. uh or or the back the neck. is there interesting stories here that. behind these injuries heart training. heart competing. jiu-jitsu judo. on so ground stuff like. uh sparring in the dojo or like drilling. or all that kind of stuff. if you were to sort of break it down. your understanding of this the landscape.

of injuries you went through. i've never had one in jiu jitsu. ever. i mean i might have like torn a. fingernail or like. you know gotten g burned but i've never. been like. seriously injured i know when ponza. straight ankle locked me at copapodio. that. hurt but i wasn't injured like it felt. sore. but like if i had to run like i could. run. i can now understand probably exactly.

what the injuries came from then. you're very quickly excelled at jiu. jitsu. you have achieved another level in judo. and i think that means. the intensity with which you approach. judo. to achieve that world-class level. probably is the source of the injuries. yeah because. the mentality of how i. approach judo versus jiu-jitsu. jiu-jitsu to me is. like a game that like we would play like.

if you wanted to like grab a basketball. and like go play a game of one-on-one. that's like jiu jitsu to me like i can't. take. the sport in its entirety seriously. because i feel like the community of jiu. jitsu doesn't take it seriously so just. for people who don't know just to set. some context. you're you're a black belt in jiu jitsu. but more importantly you've beaten a lot. of world-class jiu-jitsu people.

you've done very well at the highest. levels of competition yeah i wouldn't. necessarily say i've beaten them as much. as. i've trained with them. and. they understand whoever it is that. through training with me. that like i'm not just a judo guy. like i know how to do jiu jitsu. right and. if any one of them were to come to me. and like say hey you know. i want to feel what it feels like to do.

judo with me. they would quickly understand that like. the way i approach one is very different. than the way i approach the other like. we probably wouldn't be friends if they. did judo with me versus if they did jiu. jitsu with me i'm curious asking for a. friend because mostly because i'll do a. little judo with you today. so you clearly because you're a great. instructor and teacher you have a mode. where you can demonstrate a technique. do you know how to like spar where.

you're going like. 50 percent. it's hard to put like a percentage to it. because i've never in all of my jiu. jitsu ever gone 100. in jiu jitsu yeah like i had a. conversation with salo one time. where we were talking about like. jiu jitsu and training and i was like. well if i got his arm i would just break. it. and he was like. but what if he tapped i go that's not my.

responsibility. if he taps and the ref doesn't say. anything you just break it you just keep. going yeah he goes but the tap means. it's over and i said no the ref tells me. when it's over i go. i never give you the opportunity to tap. because if you have the opportunity to. tap that means you had the opportunity. to think about how to get out make a. decision that you can't. then tap i clearly operated too slowly. yeah so there's a it's either broken or. i don't have it. you're an external.

person to go against in judo like the on. the grounds like everything you did. that's that's amazing. um that's really amazing that's what. made you a really fun person to watch. because you really went to war with. these people yeah. so you know what it's like to go 100 in. judo i do because i know. what it's like to. train with somebody under the mentality. of. i'm going to do everything i want to do. you're going to do nothing you want to. do and you're going to accept that.

do you ever train in judo where where. you let people get stuff of course. all the time. now or like always. even when you're sort of building up the. four years building up to the olympics. like they're smaller guys that are. throwing you in the gym and that kind of. stuff no i never said that okay. that never came out of my mouth. i said i let people do stuff i never. said smaller people throw me oh you mean. you let him get a grip but then you'll. position yourself in such a way that.

it's it's hopeless it's like. the number one skill set that. judo is going to teach you is. the ability to give people false hope. because i can really looking forward to. the video we're gonna shoot. like i can let you take a grip yeah i. can let you think that there's. opportunity but what you don't. understand is by the position and angela. that i'm in. it's actually false hope yeah like.

as long as you don't know that it is. then now i'm free to operate and do what. i want see i competed in judo against uh. black belts where i would go in. and it looks like it should be able to. throw them and then you just hit a wall. and then i also saw you destroy those. black belts yeah so there's levels to. this yeah it's the the cliche thing. there's black belts and there's black. belts. you're unique in this there may be a. couple other. jidoka in america but you're really like.

unique i then get to see people. that really i felt like. were 10x better than me it just feels. like that sometimes i've learned that. madness that would be true. might only be. just a little better but i saw you. destroy them. and it was like holy shit. there's a thing in judo right where. you know imagine like you as like just. an adult. right. um. and i i hope people can like.

conceptualize this when they hear this. but imagine like you're a full-grown. adult even. male female doesn't matter but there's a. little kid in front of you like call him. five or six years old and he's acting. out. like do you think you have the physical. capability of with one hand grabbing. that person. or that kid and making sure that they. freeze. like they feel like they're nervous and. like they can't do anything right. when you fight a good judo player when. they grab you. that's what it feels like as an adult.

yeah. when people even i've felt that from. like certain players in japan like when. they get a grip i'm like. i've now lost the function of this one. yeah that's a really good way to put it. i think. i could potentially beat some of the. people i've. went against. but certain grips they took it made me. feel. powerless yep i was like i didn't know. this was possible that kind of power was. possible and you don't even know where. it originates from yeah because you're.

like how does one person's hand do this. where i can't use my whole arm yeah or. like i can't pick up my right foot. because he's holding on to my right. sleeve yeah it was kind of um. on a basic animalistic sense kind of. terrifying. it's uh i mean you don't want to. part of this is like ego. but you realize that there's a food. chain and you're not at the top of it. that's part of the humbling process i. think of martial arts it's like.

i think everybody. um like a lot of people. think they're much higher in the food. chain than they really are and then when. you realize this is why it's a really. healthy process for people they're not. even competing in the olympics to. practice martial arts because you. realize okay that like putting yourself. more accurately in the food chain is. really good. way to sort of place yourself in the. rest of the world it humbles you to the. reality the harshness of the world yep. it's kind of like when people look at.

like survival in the wilderness it's. like oh it's not that hard. no you'd probably die in a couple days. same thing with like judo and martial. arts like. yeah it's really not that hard. but you don't know what to do yet. and so when you find out that first time. that you don't know what to do. it's devastating to a lot of people but. those that like stick through it and. like. start to learn it's a very powerful. like feeling that now like you can take. care of yourself.

and i think i want to talk to you a few. times before. you talked about that there's like like. the top three the top five in the world. i don't know where you put them but. they're they're another. like level. here yeah. and the fact that you're i mean it's. it's so exciting to me. uh probably because i just felt all the. levels here. and i have seen you and others at that. height destroy. those i've i have seen the exponential.

levels to this game. it's incredible that you're. didn't quit. didn't doubt yourself and just. persevered through three olympics. to get to that highest always fighting. at that like very highest of levels but. just like. you know from the top 10 to the top five. like really breaking in through that. i don't know um. what would you say it took to get to. that highest of levels like if you when.

you look back to all the weight cuts to. just the insane amount of injuries. believe it or not i didn't really think. i was there until. 2013 i thought i was recognized as one. of the best. because i was able to fight for. oppensburg which was the professional. bundesliga team for germany which is one. of the top clubs in all of europe. um when they asked me to i felt like. europe had like accepted me as like. oh.

i'm a top level judo player. but i don't necessarily think that when. i signed on to compete for them that. the division or the world of judo saw me. as a top level judo player. right there's. there's a. mental shift that happens along that. point. and for me. my mental shift really came into play in. december of 2015. before rio that was like. when i lost in japan that's when i.

realized like the world. respects my abilities and they compete. against them. they don't compete against me as a. person. they compete against. the idea or. the. the persona that i've been able to. establish over the years of competing in. the division wow so you're the. they probably have a nickname for you. you're the system. of ideas and thought that they study but.

they're studying. me as a conceptual whole. not me as the human. is your style relatively unique. in the 81 kilogram division it was. relatively unique for kayla i and jimmy. up until 2016. now since 2016 you can see a lot of what. we used to do. throughout most of europe and even asia. like you're starting to see some of. those techniques that you didn't see.

before. starting to get implemented. because. when i was. when i was gearing up for 2015 i had. such a slew of injuries. that entire calendar year that i never. should have made it to rio i should have. called it quits at the end of 2015. because. i suffered that major concussion in. february i stepped on a mat in may for. the first time i lost five straight. tournaments i left the national team.

went to japan. won pan am games got a bacterial. infection at the worlds almost had my. leg cut off. tore my si joint later on that year and. then took fifth in japan. and when you look at like the calendar. year as a whole. like the world should have treated me. like i was washed up like this guy. hasn't been training he hasn't been. doing anything but i took fifth in japan. now how does a guy that hasn't trained. all year.

take fifth at one of the hardest. tournaments in the world on two weeks of. training. because they were fighting the guy i. used to be. not the guy i was at the tournament. which means they were competing under. the idea of like. what is he really capable of. not what have i brought to the table. today. and that just gave you the confidence. and that told me that like. well if i can take fifth and i'm this. bad at judo right now.

wait until i'm healthy and i'm back in. shape. then they're not gonna know what hit. them. one of the essential components of being. the number one in the world or up in. that. place is that confidence the self-belief. and the rest of the world believing it. you can have all the confidence in the. world but if the rest of the room. doesn't buy it. it's nothing. that's funny it's like there's certain. people right with tyson. uh mike all understand he could not. train and they're still scared yeah. right like he doesn't have to work out.

that hard anymore there's several judo. you know this way better but from a. spectator perspective like iliociliatis. is like that he's one of them. it's like he. he's portrayed over the years everyone's. so scared of that guy. it's interesting yep i people were. scared of you too people just gave a. certain level of respect to my skill set. and whether i had a bad weight cut or. didn't have a bad weight cut or not. trained for the last three months which.

never happened i'm just saying. they were gonna fight the persona. and it's an important distinction when. you're looking at the top five because. everybody coming up. they're training against the persona. not who you are even i did that at a. younger age. that's why i would always go to people's. hometowns because like i don't i don't. care about the persona i want to know. what you do day in and day out. when i couldn't beat a russian i told. jimmy send me to russia i need to i need.

to understand and see it with my own. eyes. what they do outperform so that i can. believe. that i can beat them. casca and this is a small tangent so. uh dagestan has produced some incredible. wrestlers i don't know what the story. where judo is where. the source of source of greatness in. russia is for judo but what do you make. of dagestan why. what is it in the culture of their or. russia broadly that produces greatness.

specifically in the combat sports. i don't know yeah specifically in the. combat sports sorry uh but i don't know. if you want to draw a distinction. between wrestling and judah i'm almost. curious do you understand the. differences there in the culture. still a combat sport to them they're. still in that same like. realm of their taking young kids. and. that that's what they do. so khabib speaks very highly of judo yep. like it's funny khabib vladimir putin.

people don't get it but like judo is. like. one of the premier sports in the world. but we just don't understand it it's not. just popularity so definitely popularity. but also like this respect. and. there's a certain thing. which is why i really value judo. internationally you don't get this in. the united states but internationally. there's an understanding. like later in life when you're a. scientist meeting a businessman. when you both have done judo there's.

this like nod of respect yeah it's so. interesting uh just very few sports like. that you know basketball doesn't have. any i don't know almost any sport like. that and it's fascinating wrestling has. that in the u.s yet it's the us only the. rest of the world doesn't do that. there's a few like you could see that in. like iran or something like that yeah. they'll respect wrestling in that kind. of way. yeah it's um but judo on like a global. scale is probably that only one.

due to its like. physicality and the hardships that you. have to go through. to reach that upper level so why do you. think dagestan why do you think khabib. is as good as he is is there is this. just the raw genetics of the human or is. there something about the system the. system. it all has to do with the system. so they um. they grow up around fighting in all. forms yep. um they're also i mean their technique. is exceptionally good because they they.

grow up in it they grow up and they. don't they don't understand. anything else so you don't have to it's. almost like you with the weight cutting. it's not like a big dramatic thing for. them to fight it's like it's just part. of life yes and. when you're i don't want to say bread. into it but when you've done it. for. you know i want to say like 90 of your. life by the time like khabib probably. has. right from the time he could crawl he's.

probably been grappling in some fashion. thereof right. um. you know when you. as grapplers like you can look at a. wrestler. and having never seen this person before. and go. you wrestled. yeah. why is that it's because he's probably. wrestled since he was like six so the. way he carries himself the way his body. is built the way he grew into it was. framed around wrestling.

right so the people in that culture are. framed around. fighting and grappling you're right it's. like. first of all philosophically. psychologically but also just like the. way you move your body yes that means. like when you're young the people you. admire move their body in a certain. certain way and then genetically. it it just as they keep doing that. they're just going to get better and. better every generation yeah. it's just going to keep improving. because they just keep building into. that system of turning them out.

and part of it there's like cultural. stuff where. i mean it's such an interesting approach. to wrestling i really want to travel to. dagestan and just talk to them because i. happen to be able to speak russian. because. because there's uh less value for. this kind of materialistic success. that i think sometimes can get in the. way of uh greatness it seems like it. makes coaching more difficult it makes. like following orders as an athlete more. difficult i don't struggle with that in.

usa judo yeah because you want more. money. but then more money if not applied. correctly can corrupt the system somehow. can split people up it's just it's same. thing with the prestige around certain. metals over others because athletes. start. chasing. fame. instead of development. yeah. yeah that's i mean uh the satire. brothers are famous for this like. ignoring. ignoring fame ignoring all of this like.

focus on the art itself not even not so. it's not even the medals exactly like. you're saying just the purity of like. when you're in it yeah and let everybody. else figure out their stupid medals and. money and all that because it comes it. comes right exactly it's a result yeah. exactly like it's not that you don't. appreciate it but you know that it comes. if you focus on the art there's a. distinction when you're talking about. your athletic career or really any. endeavor right. the problem with goal setting is nobody.

teaches the athletes or the people. how to transition from the goal to. reality. right so. when you look at my career as a whole. like when i was getting ready for 2008 i. actually forgot to train for it. i was so happy at such a young age that. i became an olympian that that in and of. itself was a goal that i thought. had to be admired had to be celebrated. that. you know the games are right around the. corner i i didn't really come down off.

that high. you're you're the local optima of of uh. just winning the trials. yeah that was it's a big thing it's a. huge thing but then you're just focusing. on the accomplishment not the correct. but at some point right when i. when i went into london. i actually went into london going with. i'm gonna prove i'm the best in the. world because i believe i'm the best in. the world and i believe it from like the. bottom of my soul that i'm winning this.

and then you're almost like trying to. tell the universe like i'm accomplishing. this thing because it's a goal. but when i went into rio. i just accepted the fact that i was. winning. it's not a goal like this is happening. you visualize it but i felt it you felt. it right like this is no longer a goal. anymore. like. i anticipating i i can see this coming. down the path because.

i'm anticipating that the games is. happening and i'm gonna win it's not a. goal. it's an anticipation and there's a. distinct distinction there. between the two. okay so for people who are just watching. the video of this there should be an. overlay. of uh. young travis this is uh you still had to. make 81. is this still a tough cut here. no this one was relatively easy this is. going all the way back to 2008 so this.

is the summer before the games this. probably happened in. june i would say. so this is the. olympic trials so in the united states. you have to. i mean similar to like wrestling you. have to win the trials to qualify for. that particular division to represent. the united states so this is you said. june before an august olympics yep. so here i just wanted to show this match. because. uh what was there there's another one i.

think you do a pin you do some there's. groundwork in the other one. but in this one. fighting a teammate. finding a teammate for me former. teammate oh there's an old school double. leg i forgot about that and it's weird. to see. so you so there. um the travis's opponent and he's travis. is setting up here that sanagi. posting his. left arm and getting it done that's a. big that's a big throw.

you have too many of those big throws on. uh. on video. because like you often on video you're. going against the best people in the. world it's tough to get like that much. air. and a lot of times the the ones that we. do see and you know the part that a lot. of people don't. experience is. a lot of those times right through. people with that throw. it was in training camps. so by the time i got to the competition. with these guys. they were playing a hundred percent.

defense to never let me do that yeah. so you do this. um here are you kind of pulling him down. no he's i'm trying to get him to come up. to come up but are you pulling him down. to get to fake him off i'm not doing. anything with my left hand. uh so here the the opponent's so what. i'm doing right now is his head is like. in my chest. i'm pressing him to get his head to lift. with my chest. so i'm pressing his hand down so i can.

use my chest to like pinch my scaps and. roll his head up so he wants to pick it. up. and. and then he i mean doesn't he know. what's coming here. oh no he might not. oh no he knew he was a former teammate. he knew exactly what i was trying to do. and that was a really big step with your. right foot it covers uh about four feet. so you use the distance. and your left. um.

catches up in like perfect position yeah. you back it up a little bit. keep going. keep going. right there that's this is like an. important distinction between mine and. everybody else's is. because i split his hip um i actually. once i'm able to split i no longer need. his center of gravity below mine. right and when you say split you mean. you put your foot in between. why do that split that four foot split.

yes and then when i get my feet back. together it doesn't matter that i'm. under his center gravity or not yeah. that's why my chest is right around his. like. sternum height. for me. yeah so so the there i mean how does he. get uh for people just listening to this. travis steps is like that's a big. huge step gets. like my hip is probably right around his. nipple because he's he's sprawled back. so much yeah that's right so like so.

you're how does the physics of this work. you're violating the principle of. your center of mass being under oh i. guess somehow it is. i don't know but he has nowhere to go. he's screwed yes that's the kicker is. the way my. mind works is. in order for him to play an effective. defense. he needs to have his feet firmly planted. on the ground with friction. yeah otherwise he can't press into me to. stop it so when i get him to sprawl back.

when i split his legs. he effectively loses that contact with. the floor even though his feet are on. the floor. they're not in a position where he can. drive from them yeah therefore when i. flip he flips so there's a. so there's a natural. like flailing here so he's not falling. forward. you're falling forward yeah he's just. attached to you so like. you can keep him up there and their like. legs would be just flailing yep one of. my one of my golden rules when i'm.

training and i get really tired. one of the like mantras i would always. tell myself is i'm gonna put my back on. your chest and then i'm gonna put my. back on the floor. yeah because then you'll be underneath. me that's a good principle to very. simple and it regardless of like all the. chaos and how quickly things are. happening it's something i can just dumb. everything down to and focus on. regardless of the gripping situation the. footwork all of that get my back to your. chest and then put my back on the floor. so this step of getting your back to.

their chest. like for for people who are sort of more. like for example for people like me. who are just like amateur judo people. like there's all kinds of ways to. prevent this turn from happening the. gripping and just everything. how difficult is it at the highest level. to get. into this position i mean you make it. look effortless often but like to get to. the position where you're from facing. them to. your backs to them. is that like strategy is that timing is.

that timing. it's timing. it's like anything like if i wanted to. punch you in the face like how hard is. it to really do that if you know you can. just play defense and block it yeah the. trick is to get them to play defense to. something that never happened. and then you go through like another way. and then you just go through what would. technically be your first plan if you. planned on them playing defense. so i set the stage from the very.

beginning for this to work. so then this you're uh you're. celebrating here it's a huge. sort of uh once a big accomplishment big. relief to qualify for the olympics. and then you go into the olympics and. this is where i first saw judo. and. i kind of thought of them as the same as. judo jiu-jitsu. and i was really impressed by your. performance in that olympics. the footage nowhere to be found these. days but uh um at that time i think you.

could still you could watch it live on. nbc olympics or somewhere like that and. i remember watching several of your. matches. one of them was the match against ollie. bischoff the german. and i remember being. it'd be nice if you can talk to that. match because i don't remember it all i. remember. is being frustrated. yep. uh by. him. not letting you play judo yeah. so um obviously you faced him again four.

years later and there's a lot of. frustration there as well but i remember. being extra frustrated in 2008. what was that match like so he might. have been number one in the world at the. time or up there he was up there for. sure um especially going into 2008. he was really high up there yeah and did. he win. gold at that olympics. yes yeah because he's silvered in london. it was the same olympic. final both in 2008 and london yeah.

okay so you're facing. him there. were you intimidated what was the. strategy can you talk to that match. because it kind of sets the stage for. the rematch in 2012. yeah he was. somebody that i had trained with in the. past and for some reason when it comes. to him and. i. when we train together. it's more of a physical altercation than. a judo training session.

you know like it's just like the coaches. have had to break us up a few times like. you guys get almost like angry too. a little bit it it always goes you know. farther than it should for. we're friends like we say hello to each. other but for some reason when we train. together there's something about like. him and me that just. oil and water i don't know what it is it. could be also the gripping because he's. a great gripping strategist yeah it does. he frustrates you with certain kinds of. grips and then you get pissed off and. then you frustrate him and then he gets. pissed off and then before you know it.

somebody's kicked somebody or punched. somebody in the mouth or done something. yeah so one of the only evidences we. have online of you fighting him is you. your foot in his. groin area is the only thing we have. from that olympics from 2008 from 2008. yeah and to answer everybody's question. yes it was deliberate. now you can say this yeah but yeah i. remember there being a lot of. frustration. uh you go you're actually going for a. lot of stuff like sacrifice those i mean.

maybe you're not going for the high. scoring epons but you're just trying to. shake things up if i remember correctly. yeah because when he i was so young then. that and he was you know in his prime. really at that time right he was must. have been. 24 25. 26 you know. world medalist european champion at the. time. and when he would grab me. i would i had that sense of feeling. stuck. like i was strong enough if i used all. my strength to.

not let him do anything but then you. can't be offensive when you're using all. your strength to. hold on to the situation. so i was getting really aggravated. because i couldn't i couldn't generate. any offense with every time i felt like. i gained an advantage in the gripping. scenario. he would take some obscure grip. somewhere that was like. well now i've got to go address this. thing give up what i gained and i have. to go back and. it if i were to think about watching the. match now it probably looked like a lot.

of flailing because we're just trying to. generate. enough to not get a penalty but also. not enough to where he could counter it. did you think you were you could beat. him like when you were walking into the. match. until i gripped him for the first time. like. because i had trained with him before he. felt stronger and more in shape than. i've ever felt him. that day. at that olympics. which begs a whole nother question but.

[Laughter]. i remember i remember when i. when he grabbed me for that first time i. went. this is different. and i there was a sense of panic at the. time because i was like. holy crap where did this come from this. is not the guy. that i've trained with that i expected. because it was a definite like. level change in like his ability. strength speed and stamina. like looking back at that can you. explain that is it just you being more.

uh less confident because of the. olympics it was. is there some kind of routine that he. followed to like really level up in. intensity for this particular event i've. been told that. he only gets to like his prime. for. like really big events yeah like he. doesn't train like year-round like i. would train but when it comes to like. the games he doesn't. do social media he doesn't work he lives. breathes eats.

his training for the games which could. you know institute that level. what about you is there uh like dan. gable famously said like the one loss he. had in college he was doing a lot of. media and stuff back back then there was. no social media that was a huge mistake. for him. do you do social media do you do like at. that at this point well at that time i. was like aol i don't know what's up i. didn't even have a facebook page uh. myspace nothing at this point yeah i got. my first facebook page from the usoc in.

2012. yeah when i went through the media. thing the lady was like. you have to have it i go i don't want it. i don't like people i want to deal with. the people. what am i supposed to do you know like. the social part of the social media no. okay um i i have to bring this up. because uh and then you went on to face. diego camilo uh you lost that match but. he went on to win bronze that's also an. interesting one but we can skip ahead i. just remember being really impressed. both by your ground work.

um that was a match i should have won. yeah i should have won that i was. if you don't know judo. you would visually watch that and be. like i'm winning but he was technically. winning on the scoreboard so it is what. it is but the point that he got that. solidified his win. yes it was a point back in those days so. i can't say anything but like. my shoulder nicked the ground so it's. like i don't know yeah a lot of the. stories of your olympic career is like.

from a fan perspective it seems like. you should have won or you very close to. could have won yes and there was a lot. of frustration you and your game being. like shut down in certain ways and. but like. the thing that immediately grabbed me in. 2008. was how much something about the way you. approached judo. how much you wanted to win. because i was young then. i was. when i was at this at this time in my. career.

i was out to like. win like there was no like i'm gonna. grab you i'm gonna throw you and if not. you're gonna go through a battle yeah. you're gonna make sure you earned it. it so happened that you competing in. 2008. i was uh i became a fan of yours uh at. that moment and since then. i uh i kind of knew about judo my. university had a judo club and i kind of. knew about jiu jitsu from.

martial arts. and uh obviously i wrestled for many. years before and i love wrestling. but there's something about you. competing that made me. well there's no other way to say but it. like changed the direction of my life. because it forced me. to say you know what i'm going to start. judo in jiu jitsu. and first of all for that i'm really. grateful but it's fascinating to think. because this kid is 22 years old i'm. sure i'm not the only one. that you've influenced like you've. changed the direction of my life and.

there could be. a huge number of others like that i mean. that's the power of. you as an individual at the on the. olympic stage. you ever think about the pressure of. that did you did you think it's a 22. year old there's a bunch of people. like i know i'm not the only one who. changed i just happened to have. like a microphone recently. you know what i mean like is that. it's fascinating to think about right. like you perhaps you didn't think about. this it's just. just a judo match but you're like you.

influenced. hundreds of thousands of people if not. millions is that interesting. it's. it's not something that really. hit me until. um. 2012 when i lost. because that's when like. i would say like the world felt bad for. me. at that point and that's when you knew. that like. people were watching.

and people were inspired by the loss. because of how much went into that match. yeah. because you know that 99 of us who. watched it thought i won. except for the one percent of the people. who were considered judges at that day. in the event. so. but i mean that's the the winner lose. that that was a really inspiring match. and that's when that's when it dinged. that like. because i don't i don't watch something.

and really get inspired by like the. person and the act. it's like a it's an accumulative thing. but for a lot of people like. when they watch how much goes into it. and then when i broke down on the match. like the amount of suffering. that happens when you lose a match like. that and then. you know really coming back and. winning in rio. there's a trend of people who were. inspired. that knew about london and then when.

they found out i won in rio that's when. like people like. in droves felt like they could overcome. their own personal obstacles to still. achieve something because they've. witnessed somebody who's fallen. and gotten back up. yeah but it's not something that. you think about like on the day. it's when you look back and you go oh. cause and effect. i wonder if you can comment on that i'm. trying to. realize and live up to.

the fact that there's like young people. that come up to me. and i'm starting to realize like. certain words i say will have a long. lasting impact on them yep because you. say it as like. you don't even doesn't just yeah the. whim some of them might come back 30. years later and a word i said was the. reason they quit a thing and started the. new thing that led them to become their. true self like to find success all that. kind of stuff like on the flip side.

though some people based on the actions. that we do today even with this cast. will alter the course of their lives. forever i had a guy one time. was it after london. it must have been after london. he actually found me on instagram. wrote me what seemed to be like a. dissertation on instagram about how. much he i disrespected him. 14 years earlier because.

i didn't step on a podium to take a. picture after winning a tournament where. he bronzed. yeah and i'm thinking to myself like. at the time like. having dinner with my family because i. had to leave the next morning was more. important to me as a person. not thinking about. who you potentially will become. and. the. actions of whatever you do today. if you do become quote unquote famous or.

somebody in a spotlight that that could. come back to bite you. to me i don't know about you that that's. that's super motivating. like. not to be. a lesser version of myself. ever. yeah just be on top of your game. whatever that game is be on top of your. game when you're interacting with people. and when you're just in your own private. life i'm trying to make sure that i'm. the exact same person privately as i am. publicly. and like making sure i'm on point i see.

like just hanging out with uh joe rogan. a lot i see how he's first of all the. exact same person. and second he he like walks around and. there's like a huge number of fans and. you'll just take pictures and like it's. very cool and it's very cognizant of. like certain words he says especially. young people like they're going to take. that and that's going to be a memory for. them for a couple years yeah that might. be influential for the rest of their. life so yeah. i don't know that's a cool. responsibility. not to fuck it up hey but but anyway i i.

bring all that up to just say. thank you. so even if you like were frustrated that. you didn't win a medal at least at least. uh. you influenced one. silly russian kid. to get into the martial arts and what. happens when you get into martial arts. it alters the direction of your life. yeah mine from for for the better okay. so let's go to uh. london 2012 olympics.

uh one of the most dramatic. battles. of all time. rematch. yep so you've reached the semifinals. once again to face the german holy. bischoff. do you mind if we step through that. match a little bit. by all means. i've only ever watched the entire thing. one time just because. fucking. so uh for context for the listener um.

travis first of all you don't like. losing. i think that's fair to say you know. the the hard part with this match is. because i went into this olympics. thinking. i'm not fucking win the olympics i'm the. best in the world. i never in my right mind thought. oh i'm gonna win a medal like that never. that never crossed my mind.

so it's like. i would have rather him just fucking. beat me. yeah because then i lost. so here. the referees as as many people thought. robbed you of a victory but it was also. a really close battle again with. many of the elements of frustration as. 2008 in terms of strategically and. gripping wise and it was just a. fascinating battle that went to overtime. uh so. can you set the context so.

what what did the bracket look like who. were the players here. um who did you beat leading up to this. match. myself as you walk onto the mat what. happened the day before the the hours. before as you're standing there but how. bad is this is it when just two people. are standing like this. and yes fucking that fucking guy man. but this this bracket. um was really interesting if you look at. like the backstory of 81 kilos like.

leading up to the olympics right. because. at this point in time you know. i was inside the top 10 at all times you. know eight seven five four. you know sixes i fell out of there. sometimes due to injuries but i always. climb back in. there was another guy. um. from azerbaijan. that was the olympic champion at 73. kilos in 2008. and. the entire division got rocked.

by match one. because his first match was with antoine. vallis fortier of canada. and everybody who saw the draw come out. was like yarza bijani is going to win it. he's the former olympic champion. he's pretty much one of most of the. major events including at 90 kilos. because he just had smooth judo. and. you know match one rolls around.

match two rolls around antoine's in the. shoot and he's looking around and he's. like. the azerbaijani is not here. well where is he. no joke he runs into the venue. a match before. throws his gui on and runs onto the. olympic platform. loses to the canadian in like a. three-minute golden score battle. so do you think he warmed up. didn't he ran he literally.

ran into the venue threw his gui on and. ran out didn't know judo. and there you see antoine. losing in the quarters. so how good was antoine. at this point in time this is i believe. his first international medal was the. olympic games. so i don't think he'd ever meddled in. paris um he went into this bracket. unranked. beating the ranked guy. first round because he.

i don't know if he missed the bus. i don't know if he was off his cycle and. planned on losing because he didn't want. to test positive i don't know. there's a lot of like. questionable things out there that could. have potentially caused him to. you know. run onto the olympic platform for match. one. but. you know. it. it catapulted antoine into like a belief. that like. i beat the seated guy i'm i'm ready and.

that was like a turning point in the. canadians career just as a whole. right that's that everybody has a. defining moment. like mine was when i beat bishop. in dusseldorf at the grand prix for. germany. after 2008. right i beat the olympic champion in on. his home soil to go win the entire. tournament so we all have like those. moments it's just when it happens at the. games it throws the bracket like into a.

tailspin because typically you'd know. like who's going to beat who where it's. going to happen. and when you look at my quarter final. against the brazilian. what most people don't know is i was i. was so thankful i had that match most. people would never in a million years be. like. i want to fight the world number one at. the olympic games that's what i want to. do i want to be the eighth seed fighting. the world number one because i'm gonna. win. i was pissed off at him i was so angry.

because. we. we were at the pan am's i think the year. before. and there was a team tournament and i. wanted to fight him i had lost. the. quarters to a cuban i think in like the. first gripping exchange he threw me with. a drop sale out of nowhere i was pissed. so i wanted my hands on the brazilian in. the team match. well the brazilian team's warming up. so i walk up to him no joke i walked up. to him and i go.

you're fighting and he goes. not today. and i went are you fucking kidding me i. warmed up i taped up you're the only. fucking guy i want to fight and you're. gonna fucking sit in the stands and read. a goddamn book. i was so angry i carried that anger. because i never fought him until this. day. i was fucking pissed i was ready to beat. him that's right i remember i forgot he. was uh the world number one yeah how did. he um because i remember like being. really excited at that match how did you. beat him i threw him with two hands on.

the same side collar yeah like dropped. sail i cross gripped i yanked him behind. me and i threw him deep on wasari and. then the match ended. 30 seconds later yeah. i was pumped i was i thought i think. okay if i'm remembering correctly i. thought okay this guy might actually win. gold. that's that's what made for me as a. spectator remembering now. the next match that much more like. painful and then the fans of judo that.

really followed the sport. the stats when you look at the games and. my draws i had the worst possible draw. as you ever could have imagined. at both london and rio i fought the. world number one. to get to the final or into the semis or. past the semis. and everybody i fought in the draw. either beat me the last time we fought. or i had never fought before. so i always held a loss going on to the. mat at the olympic games how'd you feel.

about that by the way like what were. your feelings about facing the brazilian. first i was so excited this well that. was match. three. in london i fought the slovenian guy. first round who beat me. um where'd he beat me was it the worlds. might have been the world's and then. church's philly i fought in the second. round who threw me for. wasari in japan. and then. leandro who i don't think i ever fought. who was world number one that avoided.

fighting me. at the team tournament but i mean every. single olympics you've fought you really. stepped up the only tournament i've ever. prepped for. mentally and physically and just the. whole thing yeah we never trained. through this tournament like we did for. the others or. i would go into it injured all right. well let's talk about you're standing. there next to that uh. to the german. he looks he looked always smaller than. you but you said like strong yeah. um so what are you feeling now jimmy.

pedro behind you i was fucking ready to. take his head off. did you have an idea of what you're. gonna do did you try do you're thinking. of winning by epon were you thinking. like going for big throws take or take. him in deep waters i'll grip him what. were you thinking we were about to have. a battle. and. i wasn't going to throw him until he. broke mentally. okay that was. there was no like oh this is going to be.

a clean throw that was never. that was never the thought process. so. so here. you know there's going to be a lot of. gripping so we're seeing a shit ton of. gripping. and right here he throws it bang. close-fisted. you got a lot of adrenaline you seem. calm i'm pissed you're pissed like you. don't look serious you just look like. i'm looking at the ref like because he. keeps telling me to get up i'm like i. have blood running down my face.

i go. okay. here see blood see he's like oh yeah go. fix it and that's on your eyebrow. somewhere yeah he split it just. underneath it so you split your eyebrow. and so in judo they don't they're. allergic to blood. probably for a good reason but they. so now you have to try to figure out. how to uh tape that up yeah. which already sets up one of the most. badass. looks in judo history.

first 15 seconds yeah busted my eye open. was that getting in the way of your. eyesight at all or no no. damn he looks good at gripping how. difficult is it to get a grip on that. guy very. like i'm struggling just to get my hand. in the collar and he wasn't even. blocking it is he being caged yeah. remember like. is he interested in offense nope he's a. very cagey. you know methodical player. like he he never opens himself up yeah.

there you go you grab the leg as part of. a combination yep. and people have told me that he's. actually very good at throwing people he. just doesn't. so but he just doesn't show it at these. no because he. he doesn't care how he wins he cares. that he wins yeah which makes him very. difficult to beat. because he knows when you've strategized. to do that. where you look at the rule set and you. develop a plan to to get through the. matches then.

you've really got to figure out a way to. get that person off that game plan. you know whether you get a head by a. penalty or something. right there. like. he wouldn't give me the sleeve so i. grabbed all of his fingers oh nice in. which i just opened. like to like this way or i grabbed them. the other way and i started lifting them. uh yeah i started nice first playing. mercy like this. yeah. is great because he wouldn't give me the.

sleeve and i needed an attack. and i'm like okay i can't hold on to. this forever because that judge is going. to see it so let me just do a quick. throw here while i'm using the fingers. and then you're just holding on yeah. and then i just. and then yeah he goes to get up and i go. to get on top and right here. nice that elbow you get him oh you got. him yeah it looks like i elbow him. did you do it kind of no i didn't even i. at the time i never knew this happened.

yeah until after i watched this like. three or four years later. didn't even know i didn't even feel it. look at that so he's legitimately angry. here yeah he's angry. and of course you can't you can't move. why would you get this look at this this. moment right there is gold if you're not. watching this on video you're missing. out you do you never get this in judo no. i don't know if that's ever happened. that little face-off especially on a. stage like this the reference and then.

he brings us in to like talk to us and. he's like hey we're good right like you. guys aren't about to do what i think. you're about to do. ah you put up like hey shake hands again. because the first time we did it that. wasn't good enough well you got to do it. again. the heartbreaking part about this and. why the ijf switched it to an unlimited. golden score. because we fought five minutes um. through the entire. normal part of the match and then we did. the entire. overtime period of three minutes not one.

penalty was given. no gripping infractions zero false. attacks like no stalls that's great. there was that nobody was really backing. up yep i mean it was you know so what. was jimmy telling you here. how was he was he talking to you at all. he's not allowed to talk during medical. things and my nose is now broken but. he's also oh the nose is broken from. what um i caught an elbow from him. glad his face is clean that's fun.

and right here like i was pissed i was. so angry at the medic because he's. fumbling around and i'm like my whole. plan is to break the german mentally. yeah you got to hurry up with the tape. man like. he's supposed to be tired like he's not. supposed to be resting. is jimmy yelling here he can't. no not here not here but during the. match yeah and you can see i just take. it from him and i'm like give it to me. i'm going to do it myself get out of. here. how scared is the medic.

it's like this guy's going to can't even. tear the tape. look how nervous he is. [Laughter]. we made fun of him for this yes so much. throughout the years. still due to this day all right here we. go oh you look great. can't really see don't care. was there some outcome in your mind that. you could possibly beat him on the. ground with a submission or a pin you. knew you're gonna have to throw him i. knew i was gonna have to if i was gonna. throw him or armbar him or pin him. whatever the case may be.

it was going to be his mental like. i'm just tired of this yeah right he's. too cagey of a player he's too. experienced. you know he has to mentally make that. choice to give that inch. and then you just have to be ready to. take it. so i was just waiting for it. and so now this is four minutes in one. minute left yep. oh. um is that in your game plan two. potential likes assuming engage like. these sacrifice throws to him.

because the whole point of that that. technique and the sacrifice throws. wasn't because i thought i was gonna. throw him. but. it disrupts the pattern enough to like. get him to make a potential mistake yeah. like see he should have gotten a cheeto. there. hands in the face. but again that's just part of judo yeah. he poked me in the eyeball. this is a rough match. does he act at all or no like was he. acting frustrated or anything like that. was all.

like he's like acting for the ref you. know what i mean like oh that all that. kind of stuff you're just going in yeah. hard non-stop. like angry aggressive. feeling cardio here at all like i don't. i'm not tired during this. and then just always pressing forward. time runs out. now we're into golden score 12 minutes. and 38 seconds later. yeah you think about every judo exchange. right every time we grip up every time. we attack sometimes it can take longer.

to get back to the line than the entire. exchange yeah. so the the more aggression the more. exchanges you have the. the the longer the time stretches. then here the six seconds left and. golden score. your tape. is uh. is now. yellow and red yeah. with sweat and blood literally and time. is out now what are you thinking here do. you think you won the match. i i thought i won the match a minute ago.

i remember thinking to myself like if. this goes to the flags. i won. no doubt in my mind. because. i felt like the whole time like i was. going to him. yeah right he was never coming at me. yeah that's the way it felt. i think like. that's the way it felt body. language-wise just the intensity how. fast you're moving towards him you're. constantly going for throws.

now if you want to rewind that we can. talk about the whole because it's a part. of this clip so wait wait a minute uh. they all went blue they did so in judo. there's three referees two on the side. one in the center and they all vote and. now let's pause it right there now the. way this is supposed to work they raise. their flags they do like a one two count. and then on three they all raise it. together yeah now as a little pretext to. this entire match. up until this point. not one match at the olympic games has.

ever been a split decision. meaning out of three people. not one of them voted against the other. group members. so they were all unified blue or all. unified white yeah right which is um. statistically difficult to imagine yes. it's almost like the they had a referee. meeting and said um it's better for the. olympics to never have a split yeah. okay.

so the question becomes. if you click that frame by frame. right. so right now we have all the refs with. their flags out. and then click that so the middle middle. guy is. he is all the way up all the way up the. other side judges haven't moved. we now have one side raft all the way up. then we have a third side ref. all the way up. yeah so there there's a the time point.

when the middle guy has the flag all the. way up if not 80 90 of the way there. yeah then the other one does. and then the third one goes. uh so now the question becomes who. really. like did the outside refs really have an. opinion. or were they told. to wait for the center one to start. and then. lift whatever flag the center ref picked. yeah this is very unfortunate because.

it's very honestly it's very possible. that they had this meeting. um. this this is the problem with. the. the olympics they sometimes. it's also the problem in the soviet. union with communism you think the the. committee. knows what's good for the people and so. on so they decide. universally as opposed to letting the. magic of the olympics. be what it is but nevertheless. the in this case the center ref decided. blue.

like what do you think. do you think it's just a shitty call or. like. he has the right to pick but yeah the. problem is is. the other two i don't think did. yeah so. and then so when you do this frame by. frame again. right. like i can see from my own perspective. two of the refs and i see them both blue. right so when you fast forward that a. little bit to get to like all the flags.

i see the two go blue and i go. i look over and i look at the other guy. and i'm like. really. yeah all three. i fought for eight minutes and i can't. even get a vote i didn't even get a. penalty. i can't even get a vote. and that's when i broke. i like oh. i couldn't believe it. and i'm not going to lie. he looks shocked.

and here you're on your knees. you're crying literally you're right. this is it yeah. but i think it's the end amazing match. that was such a war. i mean both people can't believe what. happened i know that's the and like. honestly i wish we had the rules that we. do today as far as the unlimited golden. score. because. i would have loved to have seen what. would have happened what was jimmy. saying here to you i mean i guess.

there's nothing to say. yeah he. he was kind of apologizing for the way. the. the scores went because he knows how. badly you want it he saw the match and. he felt i deserved to win it yeah based. on like you know what happened but he. probably with all his experience knows. that this is what the olympics are about. the refs sometimes yep i mean that's the. magic of it man well and at the same. time we're at.

we're in the olympic semi-final. in a sport that's dominated by certain. continents. and when you look at the three refs on. the mat. they're all european. yeah you're telling me there couldn't. have been one pan am one african one. oceana. you know different. like why'd they all have to be european. but to be fair. it's a back to your sauna story. you've dealt with this stuff before and. and you've won over this stuff before.

and that's why like i was broken and you. thought you won here those. and when i hindered on that for. a year and a half like i couldn't even. stand i was done. but i'm pretty sure there's a. slow-motion replay on this when i watch. that he's all excited that fucking guy. and he's all happy he's released. hey hi guys. i did it. yeah so here's like. slow motion.

replay of the flags being raised the. heart being broken travis just spending. over right here watch watch his reaction. like. he like you could see his mouth like. open and ah like yeah really yeah and. he's looking at two refs just like i am. he didn't celebrate until he looked at. the third one and said oh all three. so you think he knew i think in his head. like. i don't think he really believed he was. winning he did it enough to win yeah. yeah. because when his mouth dropped like.

oh yeah hey all three like that's not. really the reaction you would give. yeah i mean that was uh that's one of. the greatest matches i've ever seen i. mean obviously it's painful for you but. that pain. first of all sets the stage for uh 2016. but even without that. i think it was just a beautiful story at. the olympics you've still did incredible. job at that olympics you stood. toe-to-toe.

i think. in in hindsight having. lost that match did more for me and more. for the sport. yeah. as a whole me losing that match yeah. i mean stories aren't about. winning stories are about the fighting. so and that made one hell of a story but. it it also has to do with. you know. treachery is probably not the right word. to use it's probably the.

wrong word entirely to use but. because of the conflict in the match. and because of how the refs. handled the match there at the end. it created controversy that was spoken. about for. months on world media. right i remember articles being written. about the olympics and. you know the reffing and how it was. corrupt and that match was. one of them there was another one in. fencing where like something happened. with the timer where one of the fencers.

i guess what happens in fencing the. timer. resets up a second. if it's down so the fencer got one. second played out i think like 27 or 28. times. and then one on like 30. so like there. was like clock fixing for fencing there. was this match. that i think just got publicity good or. bad publicity is publicity for judo. and then you came back.

to uh i mean this is the hard thing. after this hard break to step up and. continue fighting right. i really really struggled. like unbelievably struggled from 2012 to. like 2014. i almost quit numerous times. i was so angry. i mean at one point. i got so mad at the ijf feeling like. they were fucking me every step of the. way i threw a water bottle at a referee. after a match. i cussed out a referee one time on a mat.

i got suspended from the sport because. i was just so angry at that point in. time and uh igf is the international. judo federation and they're are they the. people that supply the referees. basically like the they're kind of. getting run the sport they're on global. scale. so. uh. you sent a few emails 2014 15. uh basically quitting one of them said. i'm mentally and physically broken. another said with a subject line i'm. done.

yep the weight cuts didn't break you no. [Laughter]. so if this broke you you were really. going through a hard time. i was like you know what. we're just gonna like dumb it down a. little bit and get some wins under our. belt i'm gonna go to a world cup which. is like three stages down or four stages. down from like. the olympic games like this should be. like a cake walk like making the final. of a world cup should be a walk in the. park. i show up.

i barely beat a 16 year old kid. barely. then i got smoked in the second round i. got thrown three times. i was like i'm fucking done they changed. all the fucking rules they fucked me out. of the olympics like. what am i supposed to do. and it was at that moment when i wrote. the email. where. i remember sitting at a bar i don't. drink by the way but i was sitting at a. bar. um at the hotel sending this email.

and i got a response back from jimmy and. he goes well just. just stay for the training camp go to. germany and then whatever happens don't. worry about it we'll talk when you get. home. i was like fuck that fuck these people. fuck the rules i don't fucking care. anymore i'm just going to do judo the. way i want to do judo if i fucking get. shit out fuck them. that was my response. can you become an olympic champion. can you become an olympic medalist with. that kind of thinking you think or no. was that.

that's counterproductive yeah okay. just checking because. maybe that's also liberating. the expectation was no longer that. travis is going to win this tournament. the expectation was travis is going to. come home and be fucking pissed off. we're going to have to figure out how to. manage. a pissed off person that's trying to. quit that shouldn't be quitting. and the people still believe that you. can be a medalist again yeah like who. believed that jimmy believed it the team. managers believed it some of my. teammates still believed it.

my training partner still did but. they're not the ones that are. cutting the weight. flying around. feeling like. you know all of your judo is now null. and void right because at this point. they took away leg grabs entirely. you couldn't break a grip with two hands. right the meta of judo has changed again. right so. i got fucked out of it they took away. how i did judo again and now it just got. more difficult.

so. when i'm sitting in the hotel and i'm. sending this email. i remember being at the training camp. like. i was like i don't even fucking care. what the rules are i'm just gonna. fucking throw people i don't even care. if i'm cheating it doesn't matter to me. i'll just play stupid yeah. right. so i just started going back and doing. judo without the leg grabs but with all. the same gripping that i was doing. beforehand. and then when i got to germany i was. like. i don't fucking care i was like if i. gotta cheat to win then i gotta fucking.

cheat to win if i get cheetoed out like. then i get cheetoed out and i won. germany. uh which event in germany the german. grand prix which is grand prix yeah a. week after losing the world cup because. i was trying to do judo around the new. rule set. i wasn't just trying to do judo. right because when you get to the. highest level. your game tends to morph around.

you know what can you can or cannot get. away with. i was more focused on trying to figure. out what i can and can't get away with. and i stopped actively doing judo. once i said fuck whatever the rule. changes are i'm just going to keep doing. judo the way i know how to do judo and. if i get a penalty then so be it. and so that that win. that started the road back it wrote back. yeah. because now it's like i don't care if. you penalize me or not because. i'm going to throw that guy anyways i'm.

going to beat him anyways. and if i get a shito for doing something. wrong. then i'll just stop doing that one thing. and just keep doing all the other things. that they told me i probably shouldn't. be doing but they're not calling me on. it so i'm just going to keep doing it. well. you uh. you found yourself at the 2016 olympics. was that ever a doubt by the way after. this after 2014 in germany. i had a lot of doubt after the. concussion in 2015.

i remember. when i first came back after four months. of. nothingness that like. even trying to like train. the room would start to like tilt the. world on me. and then when i finally got over that. and i could start doing things again i. stepped on the mat. for the pan ams and i was like. drowning's not the right word but like. everything was being done in such a slow. motion like i had sandbags everywhere. that like i just couldn't keep up.

like mental fog. yeah like i remember fighting the. brazilian for. in the semi-final of pan ams. i was halfway through this match i'm. just like. my eyes roll up i'm like i'm just gonna. fucking wing it i just fucking winged it. and i got countered and thrown free pawn. and i was like i don't even know what to. do and i couldn't even think clearly. and that's when i was like. i may not come back. yeah you don't have control over how to. come back from this it's like it's just.

your mind it's not just not operating. i can like oh my right hand's not. working because it's fractured let me. figure out a way i cannot use that like. when your mind's not working like. it's the one thing you need yeah like. you gotta have it so i can work through. anything else i needed that though and. so how did you come back from that time. that's when i wrote another email and i. was like i'm fucking off team usa i'm. not fucking i'm not done with usa judo. i'm done with the tour i was like i quit. i'm gonna go do my own thing.

they were like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. can't quit now the olympics is in like a. year like let's talk about this again. because it's the second time i've tried. to quit in like two years. right. so then we sit down in jimmy's office. and he's like whoa whoa whoa you can't. quit you're gonna kick yourself if you. don't go to rio i'm telling you right. now don't do that to yourself. let's figure out a way of like doing. this and i was like. because when we trained before we did it. as a unit. right we all went to the same. tournaments we all went to the same.

training camps and i'm like you guys are. treating me like i'm the same player i. used to be i go i don't. i'm not operating at the level you think. i'm operating at i go i can't do that. and he goes well what do you want to do. and i'll tell you what jimmy you know. i'm being serious because my answer is. something you'd never would have. expected i go i want you to send me to. japan for three weeks. and he was like. really i hated japan i refused to go. there up until this point. but i was like i have to get to a point.

where i can get so tired. and get through it. that like my judo will come back and my. body will learn again. and when you say japan you meet the. kodokan like what. tokai that is that the highest level of. judo. it's one of the top colleges in the. world yeah and that's so you can go with. the best people in the world you can go. to war with them top level like strong. players yeah there's a lot of very. strong players there's a lot of middle. class players and there's a lot of.

volume of rounds. so you value all of it the middle class. too like that because when you're tired. like you can't just train in areas where. you're. you're battling for every inch at some. point you have to be successful. right so you still under duress and. under strain and. through exhaustion you still have to. have the ability to score yeah well if. you're training with the best people in. the world all the time you're not always. going to be able to score so you still. need those b level players in order to.

really develop again. what is it like if you can comment. briefly on. training in japan what's it like to go. into a different place. you probably don't speak the language. that well. um like is there an isolation aspect to. it is it like purely about judo now. i really wanted to be isolated no. training partners no coaches. i wanted to get back to my roots and. just learn how to fight again.

i don't want to figure out how to beat. the german i don't want to figure out. how i can develop a new entry into my. sail against. you know. whoever it may be it's not you're just. i'm going to fight hard. let me get back to fighting let me get. back to like. the root of who i am what were those. sessions like what we were talking about. five-minute rounds like what what how. many six six minute rounds 30-minute. breaks 14 rounds of session. sorry what's the 30-minute break 30 30.

seconds break 30 seconds 30-second break. sorry what 14 14 rounds 14 rounds every. day. every day. five five days a week and then 11 or 12. rounds on saturday. plus weightlifting plus running. plus weightlifting plus running so that. those are hard rounds yeah what's it. feel like to go through that so you have. a bunch of uh just a sea of black belts. japan.

um i'm sure they're hunting you a little. bit. depending on who you are i was hunted a. little bit like i didn't really struggle. because of who i am. them as college athletes. they want to show to their coaches and. their you know higher players like. oh look i can throw the world number. whoever. but if you're just a guy who shows up. like. them beating you doesn't provide any. value or raise their status no but your. your status raising yes.

so i was actually like. in a situation where nobody was watching. me. and i was free to just battle at my own. will okay. which is what it was about for me. and you just pushed yourself because i. knew how to do that i know how to push. myself. are you uh when you're doing these 14. rounds is every single one. a standalone thing for you yep so you're. not trying to pace yourself nope it's. just each one as to as much exhaustion. as i can get but then there must be ones.

that were like it's like ground nine. where you're got nothing left better. figure out how to score. it's all you got to do. you got to survive you gotta score. what's your memories of that of those. three weeks what's like what stands out. to you. it seems like um. because that's the place where you found. the silver medal yep. because it's the place most people don't. want to be. everybody's comfortable. i would rather.

i would rather find out who i am and. what i'm made of and find those. those endpoints and if i can't find them. then. that means everybody else has given up. before me. were there a few people that just kind. of you returned to battle over and over. in those times and then it was just. yep no social media. no none of that it's just like to. lock yourself in your room you come back.

you've thought about it. and you come back with a game plan for. that day. against some players here or there and i. would. i would develop a hit list. like i would be like oh that that. motherfucker grabbed me at like 13 and i. watched him sit fucking four rounds and. then come try to kick the shot at me i'm. gonna fucking grab that guy early and. i'm gonna beat the shit at him. and you just developed that list there's. probably some epic battles in that room. right yeah. uh what's it look like like how crowded. is it very.

and so you're just like. yeah it's a sea of people see a people. and you're trying to are you doing. groundwork at all just throws just. throws your throws no transitions no. nothing but if i get pissed off and like. you keep dropping or like not let me do. what i want to do i'll rip a choke right. across your face yeah just to let you. know that like. yeah and if i wanted to you have a. really nice style of just like. respectfully. bullying the shit out of people because. some people call me a bully and i have. to remind them that like.

a bully enjoys like. beating up the weak right i want to beat. the person that fights back. right exactly it's not fun for me if you. don't fight back right. some of the greatest people i've seen. like do this they they basically. you have this in the iowa wrestling. rooms they'll push each other into the. wall like they get there's like anger. but it's ultimately underneath it all. it's like a deep respect i was training. with colton brown one time and i went to. san jose state because i was in. california for something.

and he kept like he kept circling to the. edge. they had like a cupboard that had like. when you opened it it had like all the. tape and like medical supplies i was. like we'll fucking put you right through. that and he kind of lit he kind of. giggled and then he went by that edge. and i fucking ran them right through it. yeah see to me that's an ultimate sign. of respect that both you and colton will. remember well and we're still friends we. still talk it's just i told him i was. going to do it he knew i meant it too. yeah i did it anyways. that was just testing me.

uh. yeah. listen that's and that same attitude was. that's that was in japan just day after. day after day after day yep 14 rounds. that's that's rough. uh and you didn't sit out rounds and i. did it all with a broken hand. uh how. wow. how did you do it with a broken hand you. show up every day you show up okay i. actually went left to right my right. okay so that's okay so you can then. focus on gripping with your left.

it's always the way. there's always a way but that means you. can't i guess you don't have to grip or. you're right sometimes because i would. palm it with my thumb just like hanging. out like this just like this so you can. do something so you could do like a. ghost because you have a. um. because what were your main throws it. was sanagi koshigoroma. okay. sumi uchimata. but you have this big uh. um like a goshi type of thing like a. yeah but not from like around the waist.

it's from over the shoulder over the. shoulder and i can do it with just the. one hand. oh as i wish one hand the right one i. don't need the sleeve hand you don't. need a sleeve hand but you couldn't do. with the broken hand i could. because i can just put my hand in the. key so it can't come off. and then you just. because what happened was. three days before i was leaving for. japan a guy. my hand was rested like this on a mat. and the guy. boom took my whole thumb off and tore.

all the tendons in the palm yeah so when. i went to the doctor he was like. you know do we have to put a cast on and. i go i'm leaving in three days so you're. not putting a cast on it and i go this. is what i want you to do just like this. i said i want you to build a cast that. holds it. that velcros around. so that when i'm not training i can wear. it yeah but then when i'm training i'll. take it off and then i'll put the tape. on it and then whatever happens happens. whatever happens.

happens all right so that's epic and. that led you to the 2016 olympics in rio. well that led me to winning pan am gold. when i got back from japan and then. almost getting my leg cut off in 2015. that was like. maybe a month or two later. i was hospitalized for seven days. the leg being cut off for what i had. three different types of bacterial. infections in my right leg my whole leg. swelled. and it was in my blood skin and in my.

bone in my right leg. um. so i got stuck at mgh in a hospital for. seven days until they figured out. what the bacteria source was. where was the source of the infection as. in in my knee in the knee yeah. okay so obviously there's a danger of. like that's life-threatening yep so when. i went into the emergency room when i. got back from the worlds the lady was. like hey.

you need to call you're gonna call. because you may lose your leg tonight. yeah and then they put me in the. hospital. what do you think in this whole time. are you still thinking about olympics. they put me into the room like four. hours later the doctor came in. um. i was at mgh in boston. and he was like. you have a serious infection in your leg. i go he's like we have to keep you. hospitalized until we can figure out. what it is and i was like. buddy. i have the olympic games in less than a.

year i go i don't give a fuck what it is. i go just fucking take it out and let me. get on with my day he goes we can't do. that. i'm like i don't understand i go you. told me it's infected just cut away that. part of the tissue. drain it do whatever you got to do and. then send me on my way he's like it. doesn't work like that he said until we. figure out what it is we can't figure. out how to stop it from growing or how. far it spread so it took him seven days. to figure out what it was. then once they figured out what it was i. went in for surgery to remove it.

then i spent i think it was eight weeks. in in-home care with a picc line. and then i came back from that. in the first week and a half of judo i. tore my si joint. trying to throw a guy. and then i came back from that about a. month. later and then. fifth at the kano cup and then the game. six months later how quickly do doctors. understand who they're dealing with. like is that is that difficult for you. to explain who travis stevens is when.

you go to visit a doctor i don't think. they understand. you know. their role. is to get me to do my job to the best of. their ability as a doctor right meaning. it's going to be less than what they. want. and they and they struggle conceptually. with like. the textbook tells me this. and i go but i'm not a textbook. right like when you go to physical. therapy the first thing they do is they.

pull out that binder that says day one. we do this exercise. i go. but i have my own goals yeah your job is. to help me meet my goal. let's let's work a plan to do that or i. got to go find somebody else. did uh the doctors in general people. outside of your close-knit group step up. if they didn't i found somebody else. and typically i could find a person who. knew the right person. i always wonder with people like because.

i'm i'm constantly surrounded by. one of the biggest problems in my life. has been there's a lot of people in my. life who love me very much. but who want me to the equivalent of. that situation um. you know definitely don't go to the. olympics and definitely like like it. seems like the world is full of people. that want you to be. average and happy. which is great which is fine i mean i. perhaps that's the way it should be. like you know my parents people close to. this that's what love. how love manifests itself often in.

people but then like i think the. ultimate manifestation of love is. understanding who this person is here's. a madman who's driven towards a. particular thing and the best thing for. you to do is not to say. like. rest is to say. work harder. like. fuck your infection yeah you should be. training yeah. have you ever met anybody as crazy as. you that can help you most of us who.

get to this point get there because. we're all a little unstable yeah even my. wife khalida right like. when she was getting ready for 2016. um or when she was getting ready for. 2020 because she moved to boston. to be a coach she. had a. neck problem. right. and. at that at some point in time it's like. what's really important. day-to-day life.

or judo. and believe it or not. the doctor in canada was like. i am never under any circumstances doing. an mri of your neck again. that's what she told her she goes if you. have me do an mri yeah you're not doing. judo again so just know if you hurt your. neck and it requires an mri. you're done with judo forever. yeah so decide if you want to do judo or. not that was a conversation we actually. had to have that's a cool thing for a.

doctor to say. i mean it depends how badass they sound. when they say it. so that's a tough conversation judo won. what's what's this with your wife what's. that relationship like so you're both a. little crazy. a little bit. in a good sense. or from my perspective in a good sense. yeah it's just we've. we understand that when it. when you set a goal to do something. you're not signing on for the good. yeah you're signing on for the bad.

and i don't think a lot of people. understand that. that's like a valentine's day card from. travis stevens. you have to like accept everything. negative that could possibly happen and. until you do you're never gonna make it. because you'll always sell yourself. short yeah you'll never go far enough. and if you sign up for the whole thing. then the negative is just like oh great. i expected that if you're experiencing. the negative they're also experienced. the negative. and if you overcome it maybe they'll get.

knocked out from yep maybe they won't. deal with it maybe they won't train. through it. right when i had my five herniated disc. and i was in a neck brace i was still in. the gym at 7 am. doing whatever it is i could do because. my job is to be at the gym. david goggins i don't know if you know. the guy he's he's gone he's damaged lots. of parts of his body like you. trying to achieve things so you know. unlike you. his achievements are like. your achievements come with a medal.

he's just running in the darkness in the. middle of nowhere by himself it's like i. mean it's the same probably as with you. if you're able to be introspective about. it is he's just battling his own inner. demons and. working through those and he's breaking. up breaking his body doing so. are you. cognizant of the trade-off of the fact. that you know you're damaging. your body. to get to these levels of achievements. of this level of excellence of this. level of greatness i mean i guess that.

depends on what you consider damage. really because. i don't really see that i have damaged. my body if anything i think i've. strengthened it. my body can go through more than yours. can yeah whose is weaker yeah. right it's just like. it's just like the thai boxers right. yeah in order to strengthen their shins. they got to break it a few times yeah. it's just nature of the beast you just. uh had to break a bunch of stuff to find. where the weak points are and then made. them stronger yep of course strengthen.

the areas around it to strengthen it by. you know the sheer relation to it but. the problem is like you may not be able. to do judo. like for until you're 70. why not. i may not be able to do judo to the. level i used to yeah don't get me wrong. but i can still do judo because and i. think a lot of people struggle with. they want to keep doing it like they. used to be able to do it i don't try to. do judo like i used to like you're. seeing here yeah i'm not that guy.

anymore. i accept that i don't even try to be. that guy anymore. i'm a completely different player today. than i am when i was winning olympic. medals. and so i guess when you're looking at. like my journey and the trade-off is. i never sacrificed anything. the people around me sacrificed for. me and i never had a downturn after the. olympics because i never identified as.

an olympian. you know a lot of olympians suffer from. depression because they identify as it. now they don't have who they are. where was your personal. moment of greatness. like. or do you not experience life that way. where you were truly proud to be. yourself like every day i wake up. you wake up and you're not proud of who. you are then. you've really got to seek out some like.

help. so that's first of all okay i'll i'll do. that because um i definitely am not. proud. of who i am i just wonder. if you didn't identify with the olympics. was there times. maybe in the training room maybe in. japan. like where you're all. you just kind of felt like. i get more of an emotional. i guess trigger right where like i feel. proud of what i've done. when. i've.

set to a task and i've done it. so almost any task and the more. challenging the task to more reward. you fought up a lot of amazing uh. battles in 2016 olympics. so you got. you beat the. let's see the world number four in the. quarterfinals. it's like a replay every single olympics. you're. all the people i got terrible draws. insane terrible draws and then you're. facing this is where i was like watching.

this i'm like yeah he's screwed you face. the world number one the georgian and. by the way for people who don't know. he beat me. five times to my beating him once and. the one time i beat him was in london. and all other times he beat me he beat. me by phone. and not by like a little throw like. he threw me on my head. at one point we were in georgia. i'm fighting him in the final i go to my. teammate and i go guess what make sure. you watch this fight somebody's getting.

thrown free pawn this matching and the. same magical distance and about a minute. in i tried to take his head off with a. big koshigoromo which was like a head. and arm. he caught me and then threw me on my. head and ended the match. so first of all we're watching the video. of you again standing next to the to the. guy leading up to your semi-final match. so here if you uh if you win this you're. guaranteed a medal yep uh but the. chances of you winning from my fan. perspective i was like god.

uh you damn. the rest of the world except for me. except for you wha wha what are you. saying you're talking to yourself here. what are you saying my name is travis. stevens i'm olympic champion i will not. be denied. the georgia is probably like what the. hell is this guy saying. was he talking to himself. so he was probably ultra confident yeah. had to be. the difference is. is i understood the last five times he. beat me. i was purposely trying to throw him not.

beat him. i wanted to find out if i could. turns out i can't. but i don't need to throw him to beat. him. i need to know how to not lose. but you were still going for stuff here. but all of my attacks drag him to the. ground. they're never standing on my feet. which is a complete which is a. distinction that we talked about at the. very beginning right you have throws. where you're standing and throws where.

you're dropping every time i try to. throw him standing. he throws me free pony he picks me up. and he throws me on my head literally. so what i did is i just needed to get to. that last one minute mark which is what. he does mentally in his own judo where. he changes into a panic and just tries. to like do things that are. uncharacteristic. so you knew he's going to start. panicking here as you get as the match. cl draw still close and you both have a. paschito and actually. did we pass the point where i went for.

broke and i broke my rule. which one. i went for a crazy foot sweep. um like epone switch. thing i can't remember what it's called. because it's not used that often. and he actually landed on top of me and. some people wanted it to be called. hippone. but he had actually. let go of the ghee and was looking for. the mat so he didn't have any control so. they didn't award him a point. yeah and here we go now we're getting.

down into the see like he's getting. frustrated great yeah i love it. perfect second penalty no big deal we. just got to get to the one minute mark. that's all we got to do. so there's no panic here for you you're. not this i'm right where i need to be. and look it. now if you go back into this match uh. i would love for somebody to go back and. see how many times he did a drop. right ippon say an augie.

probably never yeah so why is he doing. it now. because he panics and he changes his. judo at that one minute. so look out look how much i kept that. grip yeah you kept. you have that grip this whole time yeah. of your left hand locking him down. walking him down. the he he you keep the grip as he's. throwing yeah which. do were you thinking choke as he drops. or no it's just kind of natural instinct.

yeah because we drilled it i spent two. years drilling this transition and then. very so for people that don't do judo. jiu-jitsu. it's like really nice you keep. everything is nicely controlled to where. you're keeping that ghee under his chin. like it's really tight control like it's. very like you're cog i guess is drilling. but you're cognizant of the position of. your wrist the whole time and you can. tell based on like. just years of doing it whether it's. under or it's not right you can just. feel the difference and it's probably.

even if you wanted to stop that it's. very difficult because your whole time. it's like once it's under it's almost. impossible to stop. for people who practice jiu jitsu don't. practice judo one of the very annoying. things about. judo is in order to do. ghee chokes they have to be under the. chin yes. even though the kind of intense jokes. you do work just fine yeah over the chin. but. and the the kicker here and why we. practiced this choke. was because when you go back and watch.

all of the other matches he always does. this tripod when i try to do arm locks. yeah which is typically what i would do. yeah and when i do that he ends up. sliding out and i end up falling off. right. so you step up here with the choke he. does a tripod where he sticks his button. to the air. and you. uh. dude what's the name of this choke. bow and arrow. no but okay i mean when you do from like. from that posit. is is there a way this entry into the.

bow and arrow i guess because you're. doing we we referred to in judo as a. british strangle which when they when. they're in that turtle position and you. do that rolling. cool. and here. when you go into that you can fall off. of him like you said if you're going for. an arm bar but here literally. because you have it under the chin. really well there's just a nice control. and i've already planned on it being on. his chin that's why i've hooked the arm. yeah right it's already starting to go. straight probably this choke in the.

early stages like a few frames before. feels like. it uh. like you're safe it's fine. like like the head will slip out or. something like that yeah and that's why. my left knee is up by his shoulder. to keep that pressure down so that he. can't posture it up. when did you know you have this oh i. work right here. i. i actually panicked.

um. right about here. was maybe his head could come out. my hand i tore the muscle in my palm. because i was pulling so hard that i'm. like. he may not tap. yeah like is he is my hand just gonna. give out. beforehand and there he is we're right. on this edge right. yeah so like if we roll a little bit. outside and i still don't have it like. that ref could stop it yeah and then i.

felt him tapping and. oh the that. he is um he's heartbroken i felt. surprised. there it is. the relief olympic olympic final. and he knew. he knew he lost an olympic medal right. there. because he already knew. that the japanese guy was going to be. his bronze. that he never beats. see the.

but also he probably in his head. was confident that he would be in the. final correct and so like this he almost. is surprised. yeah. it's not supposed to happen this way and. it's the second time it's happened. and that's how you became an olympic. medalist man that must be a great. feeling. that must be a great feeling right here.

just like all the years of injuries. all of it. as as fans that watch this too it's like. holy shit he actually did it it's a. packed stadium too. not one empty seat. oh man. so uh. i mean what were you thinking here. i'm just focused on the next match yeah. it took me maybe. like a minute or so to like.

decompress. and then like get back to like my normal. state for the final. so the the final. is against the uh. the russian here what can you say about. your mindset. you're saying the exact same same thing. travis stevens olympic champion. i will not be denied. because i had felt like in london and. throughout the years i felt like.

i kept getting robbed so i made sure in. my mantra to have that little bit at the. end to reassure myself that like. they are not going to control the. outcome of today. i'm going to control the outcome what. did you know about the russian. everything. um. and i i honestly i thought i'd win the. olympics right now and i still do think. that today just like. mentally when you think about it that. i've won like.

yeah he threw me. but it was like a one in a million. chance that that worked for him. like come on so. so it's not like you feel lucky to be in. the final it's like. you you can't remember i'm. i'm anticipating the goal like i'm i'm. past that. there's a confidence in the way you're. moving and the way you're yeah like i. have his sleeve he's not breaking it. like still walking him down still going. forward like. um.

i knew exactly how i was gonna beat him. and i developed the plan because when i. was getting ready for. rio we brought in. a lot of the top japanese players that. weren't invited to the camp for the. national team. to boston so i had four people three of. them were on the national team one of. them had won. the universities in japan all at 81. kilos. i only got thrown once during camp for a. month wow. like i was. i was ready.

i just. i fucking slipped. where does it happen. right when he threw me so if you let. this play out really quick. there's a point right here where i'm. going to come around his back. and i'm kind of going to just. yokosoteme which means like a lateral. drop and i'm just going to bring him. down to the floor which isn't a throw. right here yeah it's more of like a a. take down right i'm trying to get him to. the ground because i want to burn him he. doesn't do nawaza yeah so i'm just going. to keep burning him and you can see that.

like. i get really close here. he just went a little too far. to his side during this exchange. and like he's running. oh my god he. he's very wiry for an 81kg player yeah. there's not much like muscle on him. but he uses his length and his leverage. very well and you can see like i'm. really burning the clock here like. i'm owning these exchanges more than i'm.

owning the tachiwaza ones the ones on. our feet so you weren't trying to. necessarily like submit him here or. like really hard or like. pin him you're trying to break him a bit. i'm doing both um i'm being overly. physical. um. [Music]. and to a lot of the bjj people who are. watching this like. they're like oh well i would have done. this i would have done that you've got. to think like. if that referee who's reffing the judo. side of it looks at it for a couple.

seconds and it's like. uh he's not really moving yeah they'll. stop it. yeah so you're uh like you understand. judo yeah what's called nawaz or. groundwork like what you because you're. really showing it to the ref yes you. have to show movement and progression. that hurt the forehead like see i threw. that hand in there kind of hard. ripping it across his face just because. the i gotta i gotta tell you there's a.

calm well no he does look a little a. little broken. but. the the russians have like this calmness. they're pretty good at well don't forget. they've competed like this for a long. time yeah it's all he knows. and this is where i lose it see how my. knee hit the ground yeah my knee wasn't. supposed to touch the ground yeah. i was supposed to sit to my hip to bring. him down. something happened where my knee touched. yeah and. it didn't happen in the first one it.

just happened there. it's like that. we never should have been in that. predicament yeah. and that's that's one of the things. where when you're looking at. you know sports for anybody who's trying. to improve. you have to when you're when you're. trying to improve you've really got to. ignore. the ends of the spectrums right the the. oopsies. and the they got lucky. and you only focus on the middle like.

the technique i was doing was perfectly. sound. but it just happened that the one oopsy. happened on the stage it shouldn't have. happened on and there's no. there's no amount of drilling that will. ever. like. prevent that from happening and that's. just the the that's sports that sports. especially olympics especially judo when. it's like one yeah. oopsie can just be your that's it. that's it you know it really requires.

and you have to wrap your head around. the idea of like if you want the ability. to beat these people and throw these. people like you got to be willing to get. thrown yourself yeah. like this isn't boxing there's no like. i'm going to stand in a place where he. can't hit me and i can hit him. because we have the ghee and because. they can grab it they have just as much. ability to throw you as you them. so how'd you feel here. how long was the duration of you feeling. upset that you didn't get the gold. versus never felt it never felt it.

just. because he didn't beat me right right. it's an important distinction because. when i'm training and when i'm competing. like i understand that i take risks. and i accept those consequences that's. why i take them. that's a consequence that's not him. being the better judo player that. dominated a match and i didn't have an. answer and then he threw me. then i would be a little upset. like when you're tired and somebody's. coming at you and like you can't do.

anything about it that's a shitty. feeling yeah. you know and that wasn't this one and. that wasn't this. like i accept. losing when it's. when it's my fault. well that was a hell of a story man so. from 2008. 2012. just the sheer number of injuries the. weight cuts. all of that the wanting to quit. the the doubts. uh i'm sure you did not get like the.

fans probably started disappearing. somewhere between the second and the. third olympics like the support. from it did judo within the united. states and just everybody you know just. the usoc tried to cut all my funding in. 2015. and say nah you're too old. yeah. so through all of that to win the medal. i mean. that's what the olympics is about is is. there some like when you look back does. that seem like another person is this. like another lifetime ago or like that's.

a hell of an accomplishment how do you. feel about the whole thing. it's a it's an interesting kind of. predicament because there's like those. cookie cutter answers about how proud. you are and how grateful you are but. at the end of the day it's not who you. are. so that that skill set and that. mentality that. you know it took to accomplish that. that's who you are. and so.

this was just a stepping stone in in who. i am. so it's in the past to me. like there's no shrine in my house that. has like an olympic medal in it i can't. remember last time i looked at it. so you're saying like the the. all the stories the skills along the way. that's like you right now sitting here. is the shrine. yeah the who you become along the. journey is really what the prize is. right like when you think about.

any of them most of the people that. you know go through that depression. after the games it's because. that is their shrine like that is who. they've identified as that is who. they've told the world the community. their friends their family that's how. they've identified. i've identified as the person who. perseveres overcomes. and accepts challenges. so like i all those things are just like.

you know putting a suitcase off to the. side and i'm on to the next great. chapter thing that i'm trying to do. and it's. it's both sad and cool that um. very few people in the world get to to. experience what it's like to be you i. mean this level. of having gone through that yeah journey. everyone has the opportunity to. yeah. yeah. i mean i've done a few.

uh. difficult things in my life but i got to. tell you weight cuts and sauna. um. and i would tell people right now who. are listening like don't go through that. and i think a lot of wrestlers a lot of. young. judo players a lot of long young like. just combat sports people where. weight classes are a thing. they almost take a sense of pride like. when i hear them talking about like oh. how much weight do you have to cut if. you have to cut a pound more it's like.

you've accomplished more like you're. tougher yeah like you're not. like there's no there's no trophies for. that. you whatever the reason had a job to do. and you got it done and that. that is truly inspiring no matter how. hard that there's a big deep lesson to. learn from that. then you start getting to the specifics. of whether you should wake up or not but. if we don't then most of the great. things we have in this world we wouldn't. have the reason we have many other great.

things is because people did that weight. cut. the equivalent of the way cut for. whatever the discipline man. there's a difference between. having to do it because you have to and. you get through it yeah then setting. yourself up to do that because you think. it's the cool thing or the thing you're. supposed to be doing in order to be. successful yeah there are plenty of like. two-time olympic medalists i probably. could have been a two-time olympic. medalist had i not. cut that much weight i probably would.

have multiple world medals had i not cut. that much weight because my body. wouldn't have been that broken yeah. there's always the other side of it so. just when you're looking at it. like i just hear it in like young kids. even some of my own like when you hear. them talk about like where their weights. at. they almost take a sense of pride on how. much they have to lose because they hear. stories like this. and it's like. that's not the takeaway i did it because. i had to i was put in a situation where.

like. i may not have gone to this game that i. moved up to 90 kilos because i wouldn't. have had time to grow into the division. and then you get the job done and then. you get the job done you're right. there's a. it's a very important difference yeah. also with sleep uh that's what people. talk to me about there should not be any. glorification of not sleeping yes there. should not be a glorification of cutting. weight but if that's. on the way. to your whatever. is that fire inside you that you know.

needs to get done like the job at hand. if. you need to sacrifice in some of those. ways you get the job done yes yeah and. uh the wake up is an interesting one. because it's different i mean you you. you could speak to this. there's different sports in which the. weight is more important than others and. there's different levels to this game i. think at the level you operated in that. was probably essential yeah like those. huge games change completely from 81 kg.

to 90 kg it's a huge weight jump it's. it's first of all it's weight but then. the strategy it's like so much changes. the height and all those kinds of things. the physical like people don't. understand it but the physical size of a. 90 kilo judo player versus the physical. size of an 81 kilo cheater player it's. like putting a human in a human like. there's enough space that's not like. you know you could stand next to your. friend who's 180 pounds and you could be. 160 and you guys could look identical. yeah it is different when both the 90. kilo 100 kilo and 81 kilo both have six.

percent body fat. and they're cutting into the class. it almost feels like there's more. variety at 90 kilo because some of them. are linking tall yeah and some short and. stocky stocky it's like 81 is more. uniform which. but then the you know the flip side of. that is the this is why i like in jiu. jitsu again amateur. uh competing against bigger guys like i. love that more i like i like cutting. weight just so i'm slim like that's when. i feel the best with the same thing that. you mentioned but like i love going.

against. 200 220 that because in jiu jitsu. the weight doesn't get amplified in the. sport like the weight is just the weight. right if you can. if you can leg press 220 and you can. bench 220 then. yeah you can train with a guy who's 220. that's that's easy they're not going to. hurt you and i mean there's there is a. truth that. you know lightweights and middleweights. in jiu jitsu and the same is true for. judo it's just like a lot more of them.

that means if you want to be. is. you're just competing at a higher level. so like. there's much more variety of games the. level is much higher so you're taking on. a bigger challenge even if you're like. um have a weight advantage so those are. all decisions you have to kind of make. and certainly jiu jitsu people that are. way cutting are silly i mean that's. that's the natural beginner thing to do. is to. feel um the way the nervousness about. competition expresses itself.

is through the desire to be. as light as possible which is the. totally wrong desire to have right like. when you. when you look at me now i'm probably. like. 230. right. but i probably have the strength of a 70. kilo. judo player yeah right the weight. doesn't really. do much yeah. i mean you have the same thing with. wrestling yeah the skinny the skinny. guys the skinny you that we're looking.

at there just the amount of power in. that person yeah it's fascinating. because it doesn't look like you have. some muscle but it doesn't look but i. felt the power of some of those people. yeah uh it's scary yeah. it's different that's the best way i can. describe it it's like scary it's like oh. shit again it's the food chain you're. not at the top of the future yeah. that's the that's the natural feeling. when you're going with some judo people. um. what's your sense about this recent. olympics what uh stands out to you.

as uh so like uh teddy renair who was on. a big run for a long time. man he considered to be one of the. greatest judo players of all time. two-time. olympic gold medalist and uh. two-time olympic bronze medalist the. four-legged clothes yeah uh not counting. like team stuff just doing individual. and then like yeah i'm not 10 times. world champ yeah i'm not sure they're. going to catalog that team event like. are they all technically olympic. champions or is france an olympic.

champion no they're all technically. olympic champions but i'm going to. ignore that. is that how they're gonna classify it. now according oh sorry according to. wikipedia like according to the internet. i don't know according to igf or. whatever because you know some of those. players never. you know want a match they just filled a. spot. oh that's even a starker example oh. that's sad. you know they lost in the individual and. then they also lost in the team. and so. well it's interesting because in in the.

case of uh teddy. uh. he was a you know important to the win. against japan in this olympics so like. in the team event so like if you. i feel like you should put that in the. equation and say who won gold right it. it does feel like he won gold in the. team. because he carried the team well you. have like namura at 60 kilos from japan. three-time olympic gold medalist no team. event. yeah.

yeah are you gonna weigh teddy's team. event no no we're not we're not arguing. this of course no i'm just wondering how. like the ijf like when you look at a. player's stat yeah is it gonna be like. team gold medal for the olympics versus. like their own personal gold medal. yeah i think in sports we have to be. brutally honest. and i think i. hopefully this doesn't piss off people i. hope it does but judo is an individual. sport. it's honestly just that one athlete.

maybe the athlete and coach. right if you look at the big big picture. but there's no there's no team in judo. that's the beauty of combat sports. that's the honesty of it that's the the. brutality of losing to another human. being in a combat sport that's why it's. so damn embarrassing when you get. slammed is because it's like you there's. no team. to uh uh. to like carry some of that. responsibility it's all on you and you. suck that's what you lost there's that.

weight and that's why it's like magical. it's not it's not like soccer it's not. uh it's not like basketball yeah i. couldn't play team sports because if one. of my teammates. wasn't doing their job correctly i would. go play their position. i'm going to do it better than you yeah. but that you know some of the greatest. leaders of teams also do that michael. jordan is like that right i mean it's. like. with your actions. you raise the the level for everybody. like excellence is expected and. therefore everybody needs to step up so.

some some of the greatest uh i would say. uh team leaders are. individualists at heart but so okay so. teddy i think ten time world champion. not team. regu regular uh. it's a big number but i think he has. some like open weight categories in. there open weight right right i mean you. can count those right i mean that that's. interesting. it's the same division twice it's the. same division twice that's right one day. after another yeah that's right i don't. know if i want to. count that yeah well i mean that's one. of the the reasons people don't usually.

put heavy weights in judo as like the. greatest of all time. because the level of competition is. lower yes. uh but anyway he did lose in this match. to um. to a young russian yep uh tamerlan. besheath. match also not on the internet thank you. olympics i am definitely going to go on. some rants on the internet. because uh. as a fan of um olympics i feel like this.

definitely needs to change. moving forward. the like every single major olympic. event i also like i also like random. sports like weightlifting even though i. don't do olympic weightlifting it's fun. just to watch fun to watch such high. level. of excellence and the fact that we can't. just freaking watch the full. like each nicely categorized event is. really heartbreaking in judo in olympic. weightlifting and track and gymnastics. all of that. anyway uh.

so teddy. lost i mean that does that stand out to. you if you were to like recap the things. that you remember from this olympics i. picked him losing already like in my. predictions. lose which where that match or just in. general somewhere in the final in the. final you thought yeah final or was it. semi when i looked at his draw because. he decided not to compete throughout the. squad and do like the bare minimum to go. because of his age i didn't think. he would have enough energy to battle.

his way through yeah the draw that he. had and sure enough he didn't he he felt. earlier than i thought but. he just he's not the young athletic. person he used to be. and when they changed the rules to judo. they allowed people to take people into. really really deep waters. which you saw at this olympics which. you know. it didn't ruin the sport or did it not. like. i'm not sure but it was definitely.

difficult to watch. would you put him at the greatest of all. time or asked another way like who do. you think is the greatest judo player of. all time. he's definitely not the greatest judo. player. but he's definitely the best competitor. what's the difference between judo. player and competitor there's an ability. to like. do the act of judo of like throwing. pinning arm locking. versus. can you win a judo match.

right like when you look at somebody. like nomura who like. threw everyone he fought through three. olympics. multiple world championships multiple. things like. that's a pure judo player in the essence. of judo he can throw pin or arm lock. just about anybody he steps on the mat. with during his time. teddy tended to. when you look at his judo. because of his size. again it's just because he's in the. heavyweight category.

he was so much bigger so much stronger. people just couldn't handle it and you. would see really good judo players just. break. yeah like they could hang in there for a. little bit but eventually his size like. you can't control that weight. weight moves weight and when you have to. use all your strength to keep him. upright and off of you your muscles just. give out because you don't have somebody. of that stature. and that skill like to train with to. train those muscles so what you're. thinking more like those uh.

73 81 90 kg people that just stand in. the pocket and just give yeah everything. like what comes to my mind is like a. koga. koga you know a namura who's a 60 kilo. guy but again like his dynamics. and how long he was dominant for. like it. just do you put value to like. epic throws like singular moments of. greatness. if it's against. um a noteworthy player in a noteworthy.

position. there are a lot of highlights of people. that are good judo players but their. highlights are of. you know scrubs yeah on the ijf circuit. but it's like great the japanese guy. threw the guy from. you know. senegal free pwn. great we kind of expected that you took. the world number one against the 330th. person in the world. what did you think was gonna happen like. when i see those highlights like thrown.

around like social media i'm like that's. not a highlight. they might as well have just been at the. dojo like practice and throws if you. look at the like top 10 list for judo. kano always comes up you know as um but. he's not somebody that i don't think his. results are there but you don't really. know how he. got there. so it's hard for me to like i can't see. his judo yeah so i'm not sure kano by. the way is the founder of judo for. people who don't or considered to be the.

founder of judo yeah. the sport evolves yeah the players that. are like if you took champions from the. past and you fought them against the. players of today. they're. it's not happening and that goes with. anything right. so every time you think of like who's. the best of all time. it's probably somebody within a. generation or two of today yeah if i'm. gonna pick my. my top three let's say top three and i. would go. generationally speaking. i would pick ono for today.

probably illiadus for like. my time frame like the. from a developmental standpoint and then. i'd probably go koga and then before. koga i'd probably go nomura. as like the person of that generation. that people like. as a whole in judo respected. yeah well in the case of uh i wonder if. people feared koga. yeah yeah. like here that that little guy's gonna.

get under you and you're gonna go for a. ride you know he was 78 kilos when he. took second at the all japans which is. an open weight class yeah. you know like he. he could throw down with anybody any. weight class and still win he was one of. the early people that planted the seed. uh of judo love of judonia like yeah. and when i looked at him like. that was how like i wanted my judo to be. portrayed that style. yeah. and then elias iliadus you just like i.

mean you have a similar attitude with. him mm-hmm so you just like the way he. cares that's why we get along. [Laughter]. you guys hang out anyway i'd love to see. that conversation i remember when we. were talking about like his coaching i. was like. why didn't you take this team or like. why'd you pick this team and he's like i. can't work with those people like those. people are weak they're children. like they don't know how to train hard. i love that guy. uh what about ono because he was. competing in this olympics he got he got.

gold in this olympics right uh. yeah yeah he lost in the team tournament. though i think he just didn't care yeah. he just really wanted to throw that guy. he like throws everybody yeah. so he's he represents the thing you're. mentioning. i signed up to the judo fanatics best of. uh ono is there something that stands. out to you about him that's especially. you find beautiful like or powerful. about his technique. um. his adaptability to the situations and.

understanding of. like what needs to happen in order to. throw these people. i specifically watched a match. with his and i was going to do a. breakdown video on it because. is there a match do you remember what it. is it's him versus. garvey of. hungary um is he good at gripping so. we're watching the match against hungary. uh so the one minute comes right here. coming up i've heard he's freakishly. strong i've never had the ability to to.

train with him so i'm not. obviously looks super skinny. but but when you see him without his key. jacket on like. he's a jack dude. which is. uncharacteristic of a japanese player. from back in the day. in a way changed all that he was like. we're gonna get physical to compete with. the europeans that's another one of the. greats right and yeah he doesn't get. mentioned enough.

and he's a righty here yeah. okay. and this is where he starts setting it. up it's like you can see he was standing. in like a left-handed stance and then he. changes. [Laughter]. so he grips almost like a double uh. uh double sleeve not a double sleeve. tricep the tricep and the the front. sleeve standing like a lefty. and no body grip just correct tricep and. sleeve and it was like the the biggest. whip and twist of a of a new chamada.

yeah he doesn't actually lift him off. the floor yeah and. if you look at it in like slow motion. almost. um. yeah let's yeah there we go. um. the hungarian player was like a hundred. percent defense and he still did this. right so. right here like press pause. this this is like. and identify if you're trying to like. learn judo and figure out how to set it.

up. because knowing how to get to the point. right before you pull the trigger is. probably the most important. so when we watch this play out what ono. ono's going to do is he's going to pivot. off his right leg right here. he's going to back step with his left. and it's going to pull um garvey's front. leg all the way forward into what we. would call like a neutral square stance. so he plants hard. and look at there's an interesting pull. with the track oh no it's not try so he. almost like if he starts with the tricep.

and he like collects the gear or. something like that but it's still above. the elbow because you can see the bend. right and right here see how he never. put back it up a little bit. that. this is kind of like one of those things. yeah pause it right there. so when he puts his right foot down he's. pulling so hard with his back. that when ono goes to put his left foot. down it never touches the mat. but by putting his left foot back. it actually pulls him garvey's foot. forward.

and so he's able to speed up his throw. by just continuing that motion back yeah. which what was supposed to have been a. step. turned out to just. in the middle of the action he makes a. split second decision before putting the. foot down to just continue yeah because. he recognizes that feel in his hands. yeah and so it's like it never it's a. swing like he never touches the guard. but it never it never started as like a. big swing to a back step yeah he changed. his mind part way through so it's right. there. right yeah and then he goes nope he's.

bringing that foot forward i'm just. gonna go for it and wait is he full like. full air. look at that. boom boom and look at if you go a few. more steps forward right there his hip. is the same height as um garvey's. shoulder yeah. because he's leaning so far into the. throw with his body weight. and he's allowing that tricep grip to. rotate that's going to draw and garvey. forward. and now when you pause it right here.

you think about the sheer physics to. like get your body into this position. jimmy and i were so like when we saw. this for the first time we tried to just. stand like that and we couldn't do it. his. left foot is pointing straight ahead. his chest is perpendicular to that foot. or parallel with it right and his head. is by his foot yeah is that only. possible in the midst of a throw do you. think he works on making like i think. he's done. this particular throw not this style of.

it but uchimada so much yeah that his. body has adapted. to be able to do this so when people are. trying to learn and like break down. videos yeah they don't understand like. the power he has and what we call end. range motion. yeah look at that so like look at the. full range of motion he takes right yeah. that left foot swings all the way around. and the torso starts. like at three o'clock and it goes all.

the way around. like almost back to the three o'clock. yeah like like like that what it and he. never lifts his leg above his hip. and the crazy part is he never fell over. during any of it yeah look at that. stayed on his feet. what's he doing. is that is that a matter of pride or. just. i think that's just habit. the way the forces work like he can just. stay up.

i that's one of the most beautiful. throws i've ever seen. there's so much wrong with it. but it worked it worked because when you. think about remember what we talked. about the very beginning like he's got. to get his center of gravity under his. wow well here's one of the top players. in the world throwing another top player. in the world with his hip at that guy's. shoulder height and it's still working. it's. okay so he this generation he could be. the great yeah and like he switched a.

lot of those. details of the throw in the middle in. the middle and that that only is that. means he's probably what like a hundred. thousand times that throws happen yeah. i saw you were into chess recently so. you're like me. a bit of a beginner in chess. you're. part of launching the website effective. chess. so i got to ask maybe it's a personal. question but uh do you have advice to. yourself and to other beginners in. exploring chess. of how to one have fun and to.

start getting good it's nice to see like. olympic caliber athlete. take on. a difficult. task with a beginner's mind so like. what's that process like i'm a huge fan. of just. learning new things in general. right like. when i left judo like i took a job as. you know marketing for fuji sports. and. i was getting frustrated with designers. so. i learned photoshop.

i also got angry with a photographer so. now i take all the photos too. just because i don't mind learning you. know i've spent my entire judo career. learning. all the time like adding new techniques. finding new ways practicing developing. and so when it comes to. chess i treat it just like i do anything. else i just stick to one plan. and i learn all the ins and outs of that. one plan. and then i develop another plan right. like i might practice.

like a london opening for example and. just i don't even care if i win or lose. i just want to figure out how i'm going. to lose. and then figure out how i'm going to win. and once i know. that position is now done then i start. with another position. and then once i've figured out how i'm. going to lose and how i'm going to win. the next thing i do is i don't go to a. third i figure out the bridge between. the two. like at what point during my openings. can i transition back into this opening. right so like you.

have like some basic openings and you. want to see how they go wrong how they. go right all the different ways and then. that starts to solidify. a higher level concept of that. particular opening and you start to. stitch together the concept the concepts. together because being able to go from. one to another and then back and forth. is. part of the reasons why like i was. successful at judo is just because. everything i do. at some point it touches that spider web. of like being able to get from one area. to another.

we refer to it as like a toolbox right. you need more tools in your toolbox. but if you're always grabbing the wrong. tool for the right for that job then. you're just not going to have success. i actually forgot to ask you mentioned. a few greatest chess players of all time. and i noticed he didn't mention vladimir. putin i gotta ask you about. um. his judo do you by chance know much. about his judo what do you think about. you know. a president of a major nation being a. judo black belt and i think from.

what i've seen. pretty good at it. i think it shows you know if he. if he actually got it like let's let's. go with that premise of like he earned. it. right. that just shows like a level of like. physical persistence. and. mental fortitude to be able to like. you know take those. beatings and just keep showing up until. you've overcome yeah and can now give.

those beatings as you know in japan and. russia you get it by just like. when you're young it's easier to get a. black belt when you're like just go. through a bunch of beatings. for like 10 years in your in your. teenage years uh but there's also from. it. um. springs like a camaraderie like there's. a definitely a brotherhood. and and sisterhood in terms of judo. to where you're you're connected. forever because of that yeah for many. people it's their childhood connection. you sort of leave judo.

you know in your 20s and your 30s but. that's always there and the same is true. with wrestling so it's it's interesting. to see him uh pay respect to that. like by going. uh with the. with the russian national judo team and. i think he did obviously they they have. to get thrown right but just you can. tell. and you probably can tell even better. but you can tell when a person moves. in a way where you're like okay you've. had. like 10 years of beatings. you can tell yeah the way they pull the.

way they move yeah but i also like in. contrast to the us national team. or. the i don't even think there's a. national team for us right. it's the pedro judo center right. that there is some. it's really cool when there's a. camaraderie like that amongst the. highest level olympic caliber athletes. in russia i suppose japan might have. similar kind of thing and and then you. have. then you can have the system. of people together and then you can have.

a strong coaching staff not just like a. coach but a coaching staff and you can. have the nation backing that stuff i. mean yeah and then the result is like. you have some incredible level of judo. emerge. um. is there something you could say we did. we didn't talk much about jimmy i mean. he was a critical part of your just. like. of your perseverance through all the. all that you had to go through um what. did you learn from jimmy. what are some impacts that he had on.

your life. both on the mat and off the mat. you know. if we had to like. put it down to like a very simple thing. he taught me how to win. right it wasn't necessarily. like. the technical side of judo like we went. over gripping we went over this we. adapted that. but the real strength to jimmy was like. he knows how to win. and most people think.

well if i get really good at this. technique i'll be able to throw people. with it not win. that is not how the world of sports. works. right like. i. remember in one of my youtube videos i. was doing a breakdown of a match. from the cuba grand prix where i was. fighting a mongolian guy he's kicking. the shit at me not gonna lie. four minutes in like. he was just. throwing me like left and right he was. so fast i felt like i just couldn't get. to him.

in the last 30 seconds. he changed he started protecting his. lead. instead of continuing the fight the way. the entire match was going in his favor. he made a mental shift and when he made. that mental shift i beat him yeah. because he didn't know how. to win the fight. he can win exchanges but he can't win. the fight. so the last thing you want to do is have. to. win every exchange in a match. you want to know how to.

kick it into sixth gear. like when to step off the gas. when to focus on gripping when to attack. how often to attack all those things. like. and you've had those conversations with. jimmy like this is not like how to stop. trying to win every exchange that kind. of thing yeah and instead because i was. a brawler before i was like if i threw. you once i'm throwing you again yeah and. sometimes you get caught yeah why would. i do that. i'm already winning. what about like the mental side of the.

game the preparation all those things. one of the biggest things jimmy brought. to the forefront when it came to like. the mental side was the visualization. right. and when i started visualizing myself. winning i started seeing more success. but once i started seeing more success. with the visualization also came. self-doubt. because as i'm starting to. picture myself like. i would picture myself before fighting.

church's philly. i'm going to throw him with koshigoroma. and i can see it and if i stand in the. chute for too long. you start to like. but what if he counters. then you go well if he counters with. this i'm gonna counter with that but you. already let that doubt in. and then you start playing this like. five step scenario but you still come. out on top but all that doubt has like. seeped into your mind. right and a lot of people don't. understand that.

that's a bad thing you're still winning. in your mind but you're also doubting. yourself in your mind yeah once you let. the. like that little sleep in itself. destructive yeah. and so i remember i was at the world. championships i can't remember what year. it was. but i was ready like i was healthy. i was ready to go and we all thought. like this is the year travis wins the. worlds. i go out there in the first round. i'm in the shoot for like 45 minutes.

like the match went into golden score. then the next match went into golden. score and the fucking next match went. into golden score then the referee came. and told me you can't weigh your ghee. then big jim goes why can't he wear his. key any gui that has his name on it. we're not going to let him wear he has. to wear a different key so then i go. fuck you i'm leaving and i walked out. there and i fought i lost in golden. score because i did a cochi and they. called it a false attack and i went. great i'm out of the fucking worlds. but when i was in the shoot. i struggled because.

i started allowing the like hungarian. guy that i was gonna face. to do things to me. that i would have to play defense to and. then counter it's like great but now i'm. doubting my own ability so i went to a. sports psychologist and the big game. changer for me was. i focus more on the. emotional physical response that happens. in matches. rather than the actual. you know quote unquote like instagram.

picture that would have happened yeah so. when i was getting ready for 2016. you think about. like. how do you feel like standing in the. chute like what does your body feel like. is your heart racing how's your breath. is your mouth dry. and then you think about like okay the. ref just started the match what happens. like how was the atmosphere like how do. you emotionally respond to these things. more so than. me trying to beat a specific judo player. right like oh the ref just gave you a. penalty at a minute 30 like how do you.

feel. and then you start thinking about the. physical responses and when you do that. really well. you can actually get the pins and. needles and your body will start to. sweat and your heart will start to race. as if you're in it. because it's not about the technique. it's more about the physical like what. does it feel like to have your fingers. ripped out of a ghee in the first. exchange now my hands can feel that. that's fascinating and then on a. cellular level. like i fought the olympic games so many.

times to the point where like it is no. longer a goal it's an anticipation right. so down to the experience of the grip. break the just the sweat the. the heart beating the yeah. does it feel to have your head smashed. into a mat and driven across the mat. with a map burn yeah and then getting. about that yeah and getting back up. yeah like with a bit of a burn all that. kind of stuff the actual sensations in. this case the actual sensation of what. it takes to fight it you don't matter. it's not a strategy like but the actual.

sensations the experience that's. fascinating. because then your body's gonna fight. hundreds of matches without the physical. damage and you could probably get really. far with that and not also in just judo. but basically anything. you can simulate yeah if you learn how. to simulate well. you've lived a very uh. a hell of a life. is there a device you can give to young. people. instead of high school.

college. you know thinking about their career. thinking about life. how to live one they're proud of. i think the the number one thing. [Music]. i can tell people is and how i've lived. my life is. you've really got to like forget. everybody in your life right now your. mother your father your grandparents. your girlfriend your boyfriend whoever. it is and really decide like. what is gonna make you happy.

right at some point in my career. the act of pushing my body to the limit. made me happier. than winning a grand slam medal. pushing my body to the limit didn't make. me happier than winning an olympic medal. right there was a there's a balance. there. and i think a lot of people struggle. with living their life where they're. happy and they make other people happy.

or take in their. their feelings into the considerations. of what they need to do in their life. and i think if they can cut those. strings. sooner. and it'll allow you to get over it. quicker and get to a happier place. sooner. and then as long as you're focusing on. what's making you happy. the things you do that make you happy. will attract other people who do those. things that will in turn build stronger. better relationships. and then you will also.

realize the. the best form of yourself and inspire. many others like yeah you've. inspired me. to uh for whatever the hell i've done uh. at least to do a slightly better job. than i otherwise would have by doing. martial arts but taking that uh journey. and i think becoming a better person. because of it so travis i have been i. continue to be. one of your biggest fans i love your. whole career in the way you pursued.

happiness i love what you and jimmy have. done i love the support of judo as. represented by you so i deeply. appreciate what you've done man and i'm. honored that you would uh spend your. time with me today thanks for talking. man thank you. thanks for listening to this. conversation with travis stevens to. support this podcast please check out. our sponsors in the description. and now let me leave you with some words. from napoleon bonaparte. never interrupt your enemy when he's. making a mistake.

thank you for listening and hope to see. you next time. you.