Tim Dillon: Comedy, Power, Conspiracy Theories, and Freedom | Lex Fridman Podcast #156

the following is a conversation with tim. dillon a stand-up comedian. who is fearless in challenging the norms. of modern day's social and political. discourse. quick mention of our sponsors netsuite. business management software. athletic greens all-in-one nutrition. drink magic spoon low carb cereal. better help online therapy and rev. special tech. service so the choice is business health. sanity or transcripts choose wisely my. friends.

and if you wish click the sponsor links. below to get a discount at the support. this podcast. as a side note let me say that i will. continue talking to scientists engineers. historians mathematicians and so on. but i will also talk to the people who. jack kerouac. called the mad ones in his book on the. road. that is one of my favorite books he. wrote. the only people for me are the mad ones. the ones who are mad to live. mad to talk mad to be saved desirous of.

everything at the same time the ones who. never yawn or say a commonplace thing. but burn burn like fabulous. yellow roman candles exploding like. spiders across the stars. and in the middle you see the blue. center light pop. and everybody goes some of these. conversations will be. a bit of a gamble in that i have no idea. how they will turn out. but i'm willing to risk it for a chance. at a bit of an adventure.

and i'm happy and honored that tim this. time. wanted to take a chance as well if you. enjoy this thing subscribe on youtube. review it up a podcast follow on spotify. support it on patreon. or connect with me on twitter at lex. friedman. and now here's my conversation with tim. dillon. what would you like your tombstone to. read it's a good way to summarize. the uh essence of a human being i would. like it to say this has not been paid.

for. and i want i want my my living relatives. to. struggle to to pay for it and i think i. would like them to be hounded every day. i would like people to call and go. listen we don't want to ever excavate a. body but we will. because this has not been paid for. i i love the idea of leaving the world. like debt. leaving the world in in lots of debt. that other people have to deal with. yeah and i i know people that have done. that and i know people that have been in. families where that's happened where.

someone has to sit and and just curse. the. sky because they don't have a physical. person anymore to be angry at. and they but they still have to deal. with the decisions that person made. and that's deeply tragic but that's. always struck me as very funny well it's. the kind of immortality the debt. because you can if the debt lasts for a. long time the anger lasts for a long. time and then you're. now immortal in the minds of many you. arouse emotion in the minds of many. my mother's best friend in the town i.

grew up and her husband. shot himself in the the driveway. and my mother's friend never got a. chance to just grieve. because he owed so much money she would. come over and go i. hate him i fucking hate him. and it was just such an interesting. thing to see somebody who and her kids. ended up getting angry at her for that. because they didn't understand why she. would hate a guy who was clearly you. know. suffering and but she goes he took the. selfish way out.

he fucked us and it was always. interesting for me to. uh just remember that like you can leave. earth. and still be a problem. [Laughter]. that's kind of a special person so. that's i think what i'd like my. tombstone to read. yeah there's a there's a show called. louie with lucy canada. i'm aware of that there's this moment i. think where an. old guy's talking to louie about the. best part about love. is after you break up and it's. remembering.

that like remembering the good times and. feeling that loss the pain of that loss. the worst part about love is when you no. longer feel that pain. the pain of losing somebody. lasts longer is more intense and lasts. longer than the actual love. so his argument was like the pain is the. re. is what love really is wow in the same. way that anger. your tombstone would arouse is. will last longer and that's that's.

deeply like a human thing like why do we. attach happiness to the way we should. remember. others it could be just anger i know. so many people who will have deeply. complicated feelings when. i i you know i did drugs for many years. so and i i spent time with some wild. people. and their parents were also wild people. and some of their parents have done. crazy things to them and. you know have created situations that.

were. not uh productive for. child rearing yeah and so i know that. when those people die. it's going to be a very mixed bag like. there's going to be a lot of complex. emotions like hey. we loved that guy but also when we look. back. uh he was a horrible father a horrible. husband. but he was fun and and and we don't put. enough stock in that but that will be a. push and pull. yeah and i'll be the one kind of.

bringing up like hey he was a lot of fun. yeah he was a lot remember when he he. stuck. us you know one of the things this. particular person i'm talking about. we were we were at a bar me and my. friend were there we're having dinner. and his father who was. you know an alcoholic and a a you know a. guy that would go out every night. and didn't work you know refused to work. would lie and say he was going to work. and then go to a bar i mean just a fun. person. and uh he he we were sitting at this. bar restaurant and the bartender we see.

his father walk up to the bartender and. say. pointed us pointed our table and go and. put the thumbs up and the bartender. nodded. and then the father walked over to our. table and he said listen i just want to. let you know i just bought you dinner. and i looked at his son i said he's a. pretty good guy and then he. he climbed over the little fence down to. the water and got his little boat it was. a little cigarette boat and he just. drove away. and then about an hour later we uh we. went we said i think. uh that guy took care of the bill but. she said well go talk to the bartender.

so we. just walked to the bartender and he goes. he handed us a bill and the bill was for. like a thousand dollars. and we said wait a minute what the hell. is going on and he goes the guy that. left an hour ago said you were going to. take care of his bill he's been drinking. here all week. and we go what are you talking about and. he goes remember he pointed at you he. put the thumbs up and you guys. waved yeah you remember that and the guy. and we went yeah and i just looked at my. friends my friend and i went you know. your dad is just we're gonna remember. him for all kinds of reasons. but to you he was fun he was a lot of.

fun he wasn't my dad. but i spent a lot of time with him i was. in two boating accidents with him. you know two boating accidents all. involved drugs yes he was usually. alcohol was involved when he left his. house. um and when he was at home as well but i. was in two boating accidents and. do you know how fun someone has to be to. get in a second boating accident. do you know what a good time someone has. to be yeah. to get in a boat with them after you've. already gotten in one wreck.

never get full to get what was that line. george bush never get fooled again. right yeah so if you're getting fooled. again you know there's a reason for it. but he was he was a fun guy he did have. a death wish the second boating accident. he grabbed me and said you can't hang. out with me anymore and i said why he. goes. i'm trying to kill myself and i was like. oh and then i understood that like. oh the fun under the fun lived a very. destructive person. who not only was destructive but wanted. to die. so speaking of fun people that want to. die i i don't know if you're.

we can go hunter s thompson but uh. charles bukowski i don't know if you're. aware of the guy. i'm aware of i'm sure i've read some. stuff so his tombstone says. i just want to ask you a question about. it his uh tombstone says don't try. interesting what do you think about that. advice as a way to approach life. i i think for many people it's a good. good advice. uh because the people that are gonna try. will do anyway. and the people that need to be told. there's a whole cottage industry now.

of motivational speakers and life. coaches and. gurus uh that tell people. uh that they all have to own their own. business and be their own boss. and be a disrupter and get into. industries you know. that's incredibly unrealistic for most. people most people. are not suited for that and you know the. gary vee's in the world that tell. everybody that they should just hustle. and grind and hustle and grind. they're very light on the specifics of. what they should actually do um. yeah i think a lot of people that's not.

horrible advice to give to a lot of. people i think. i think my generation got horrible. advice from our our parents from our. teachers. and that advice was follow your dreams. uh and nobody. and that was it by the way there was no. like what are your dreams. are they realistic what happens when. they don't work out will your dreams. make you happy. are your dreams real do they exist on. earth. yeah can you follow anybody will follow. your dreams. you can be anything you want to be. horrible advice horrible advice. worst advice you could ever give a.

generation of people really. truly i mean think about think about it. if you were talking to somebody. and you were trying to make them succeed. are there any two. uh worse pieces of advice to give them. then. follow your dreams and you can be. anything you want to be. those to me are the two most destructive. pieces of information i've ever heard so. let me uh push back because oh that's. fair this is many people do. so uh yeah this is like a rigorous.

journalistic interview. larry king by the way passed away today. so i'm i'm taking over the it's very sad. i'm carrying the very sad. let's see king yeah what was i even. gonna say oh let me push back on the. follow your dream thing is i come from. an immigrant family. where i was always working. extremely hard at stuff like in in a. stupid way i would. i love there's something about me that. loves hitting my head against the wall. over and over and over until either my.

head breaks or the wall breaks. just like i love that dedication for no. purpose whatsoever it's like the. mouse that's stuck in a cage or whatever. and no. and everybody always told me my family. the people around me to sort of uh the. epitome of what i could achieve is to be. kind of a stable job. you know the the old like lawyer doctor. in my case it's like scientists. and so on but i had these dreams had. this fire you know.

about i love robots and. that nobody ever gave me permission to. pursue those dreams. i know you're supposed to grab it. yourself nobody's supposed to give you. permission. but there's something about just people. saying. you know fuck what everyone else thinks. like giving you permission a parent or. somebody like that saying. do your own thing go become an actor go. become like do the crazy thing you're. not supposed to do an artist. go build a company quit school all that.

kind of stuff. yes sure that's to push back against the. uh follow your dreams as advice. in mass if you were to look at in mass. if you were to look at statistically. how few people that works out for i'm. just no let's be very honest this is. very true. be very honest so i mean like yeah if. you're gonna go be an act hey i was. broke for 10 years before i became a. before i was making money as a comedian. i get it i didn't need gary vaynerchuk. to tell me to follow my. thing right and here's the other thing i.

was kind of funny and like. i was kind of a lot of things were. in my favor of being a comedian right i. had this kind of crazy fucked up life i. had a lot of stories. i had exhausted or i was willing to fail. i had failed. before i was broke i didn't care about. being broke i knew how to be broke. um i had i was shameless to to a degree. i was. i would get on a stage night after night. and be laughed at. i would uh i had a high threshold for. being embarrassed. i had a high threshold for people. thinking that i was a scumbag right and.

showing up at family parties and being. like yeah i still really don't have a. job and. i'm just i work at comedy clubs kind of. and i get booked when i can. um and i i i was you know suited for it. there's this idea that people can just. roam around the world injecting. themselves. into other things they have no aptitude. for at all. and will that to happen a small. percentage of people might be able to do.

that. but the vast majority of people have. something they might. key into that they're meant to do like. you loved robots you love technology and. you found a place. in that world where you thrive but i. think many people. a lot of people love robots right so a. lot of people think everything you do is. interesting. i think your shit is fascinating i i. watch you or podcast and i think it's. very interesting. i have no place in your world you know. what i mean. i have no place in that world i i don't. like.

remedial math i don't like community. college math i think it's a waste of my. time. what do you think about robot would you. ever buy a robot for your home. yes what will it do i'll be a companion. a friend. oh yeah i mean i would like to start. replacing friends and family with robots. immediately. okay i mean truly truly i mean i'm not. even kidding like. i would like to have a thanksgiving with. four robots. i'm i'm dead serious well are they. interqueuing on like.

uh do the role are the robots when do. the robots start going crazy. that's my question is like how long do. the robots live with me before they are. also a problem. and i gotta replace them you know what i. mean you're gonna indoctrinate the wrong. is my the robot's gonna call me like my. aunt does and talk about coronavirus for. an hour every morning and tell me. everyone in america who's died of. coronavirus one of the. things i enjoy in life is how terrified. uh people like you i'm a huge fan by the.

way. get a robot well i am i'm concerned. about ai. like completely getting rid of the need. for human beings because human beings i. mean you go out in the street and you go. so few of these people are necessary. even now. even now you look at people and you go. they're hanging on by a thread right. and you can just imagine how many jobs. are going to get replaced. how many industries are going to be. completely remade. with ai and the pace of change worries.

me a little bit because we do a very bad. job in this country. of mitigation when we have problems. we don't do a great job we did a not. great job with kovid right. we don't do a good job it's just. something we don't do well we kind of. we're good in booms and busts. we're good when it's good and we're. actually we kind of know how to kind of. like. hey we're bottomed out we're like we're. like a gambling addict in this country. we like. we know what it feels like to be outside. of an otb at 9am drinking coffee and. smoking cigarettes going. i'm going to build it back and we know.

what it's like to win. but tru anything in between it seems not. that great. so to me it feels like are we going to. be able to like. help people that are displaced and that. have their jobs taken by. i mean do you do you not fear sort of an. uh a world where you have a lot of. you know artificial intelligence. replacing workers and then what happens. there's a lot of fears around artificial. intelligence one of them. is yes displacement of jobs workers. that's.

technology in general that's just uh. any kind of new innovations displaced. jobs. i'm less worried about that i'm more. worried about other impacts of. artificial intelligence for example. the nature of our discourse like social. the effects of algorithms. on the way we communicate with each. other the spread of information. uh what that information looks like the. creation of silos all that kind of stuff. i think that would just make worse. the effects that the displacement of.

jobs. uh has i think ultimately. i have a hope that technology creates. more opportunities than it destroys. i hope so too so in that sense ai to me. is uh an exciting possibility but. you know the challenges this world. presents will create divisions will. create chaos and so on so i'm more. focused on. the way we deal as a society with that. chaos the way we talk to each other. that's huge creating the platform that's.

healthy for that now. as a as a comedian creator whatever you. want to call it. people that put out content uh the. gatekeepers are now algorithmic right so. they are kind of almost ai already so if. you are a. person that puts out you know youtube. videos podcasts uh. whatever you're doing um you are it used. to be a guy. in the back of the room with a cigar. saying i like you. or get him out of here now it's it's an. algorithm you barely understand.

like i talk i talk to people at youtube. but i don't know if they understand. right the algorithm they don't they. don't that's fascinating. yeah it's fascinating because i speak to. people at youtube and i go hey man. what's going on here. one of my episode titles of my podcast. was called knife fight in malibu. it was about real estate and and it was. because a realtor in malibu i was trying. to get a summer rental which i can't. really afford but. i don't i don't think that's a huge. problem you know i've followed my dreams. so i called a realtor and she said. listen she goes i don't know what the.

government's saying. yeah but she goes it's a real night. fight out here you know an old grizzled. woman real realtor. canned skin sig out the mouth driving a. porsche you know yeah it's a real knife. fight out here. you know her entire life had become real. estate her soul had been hollowed out. her kids hate her. you know no one's made her common years. but it's just she just loves heating. it's fun floors. fun yeah she's a demon from hell and we. need them truly. we're getting rid of them it's not good. yeah and she goes a real knife fight out. here so we put that in the episode title. and of course i guess some algorithm.

thought that we were showing like people. stabbing each other and wendy's. and we we got like demonetized did we. get demonetized. we lost a lot of views because we were. kicked out of whatever out like we're. just kicked out yeah and i was asking. youtube about it. they were kind of understanding it but. even the people that worked there. didn't truly seem to understand the. algorithm so can you explain to me how. that works where they barely know what's. going on. no they do not understand the full. dynamics of the. the monster or the amazing thing that.

they've created it's. the amount of content that's being. created is larger than anyone. understands. like this is huge they can't deal with. it the teams aren't large enough to deal. with it. there's like special cases so if you. fall into the category a special case so. we can maybe talk about that like a. donald trump. where you like actually have meetings. about what to do with this particular. account. but everything outside of that is all. algorithms they get uh. reported by people and they get uh. like if enough people report a.

particular video a particular tweet. it get it rises up to where humans look. over it. but the the initial step of the. reporting. and the rising up to the human. supervision. is done by algorithm and they don't. understand the dynamics of that because. we're talking about billions of tweets. we're talking about hundreds of. thousands. of hours of video uploaded. every day now the hilarity of it.

is that most of the youtube algorithm. is based on the title. that's crazy it's and the description is. a small contribution in terms of. filtering in terms of the knife fight. situation right. and that's all they can do they cannot. they don't have. algorithms at all that are able to. process the content of the video. so they try to also infer. information based on if you're watching. all these like q and on videos or. something like that.

or flat earth videos and you also watch. are really excitedly watching the whole. night fight in uh. malibu right video that says. that increases the chance that the knife. fight. uh is uh a dangerous video for society. or something interesting. wow based on their contribution people. are watching something. because i watch q and on and flat earth. videos to ridicule them. right that you know what i mean i watch. these videos and i make fun of them. on my show yeah but what's interesting.

is if i then go watch. something else i'm increasing the. likelihood that that video is going to. get looked at as potentially subversive. or dangerous exactly that's. why so they make decisions about who you. are. who you are as a human being as a. watcher the visual user based. on the clusters of videos you're in but. those clusters are not. manually determined they're they're. automatically clustered. that's so weird we have titles where. they got upset about and i don't even. understand yeah like we had a title.

that was so innocuous in my opinion and. the title of the episode was called bomb. disney world. and i was asking people to consider. bombing disney world and youtube. got angry at that so you don't know why. you can never understand. who said disney world is the bomb right. right. right say it's just rearranging that's. why i wasn't gonna do it but i was. saying let's start. thinking about yeah plans to do. like not let's do it like but let's.

let's get in the mind. let's change the conversation yeah i. think it's very interesting because as a. comedian you don't want to live in that. world of worrying about algorithms you. don't want to worry about the. platforming and shadow banning i mean. all these conversations. that i've had with other comedians about. shadow banning i mean it's hilarious we. all call each other i think i'm being. shadow band. are you being shadow band and nobody. knew what that word was. a month ago i mean a year ago but. everyone now. is convinced that everything they do. that isn't succeeding is being shadowed. yeah so it's this new paranoia. yeah this algorithmic paranoia now that.

we all kind of have. because there are genuine instances. of people being taken out of an. algorithm you know rightly or wrongly. for whatever however you want to believe. but then there are also things that just. don't perform as well for a myriad of. reasons. and and then we're all saying like well. they're against me. they're shutting me down and you don't. know if that's true or not you know. what do you think about this moment in. history which was uh really. troubling to me we could talk about.

several. troubling aspects but one is. amazon removing parlor from aws. to me that was the most clearly. troubling. it felt like it created a more dangerous. world. when the infrastructure. on which you have competing uh. medium of communications now puts its. finger on the scale. now influences who wins and who loses.

absolutely you're right and what. you're always told is like if you don't. like twitter create your own service. right or if you don't like something you. can do your own thing or if you are. uh and and and basically because you. know. tech you have to be in business with one. of five companies i think it's like. amazon facebook google. uh youtube and twitter whatever they're. like you know i mean amazon puts. everything on the cloud. you know google and youtube it's it's. all basically the seo and the. advertising and you got to get your name. out there you don't want to be buried. and. like because you have to do business.

with your it's a cartel of these. companies you understand. it better than anybody uh that you are. prevented. truly and i i think whatever you think. about parlor. whatever you think about what people are. saying on parlor whatever you think. about. uh alex jones whatever you thought about. milo yiannopoulos. the state has an interest in and has. always had an interest in. in crushing dissent this is what the. state has done this is how they. you know retain the power they have.

by eliminating dissent where they can. now because you don't have. you know three broadcast networks. anymore and a handful of newspapers that. were all. run by the way by people that had been. either compromised or happily you know. happily going. with the program and you have this wild. west. of the internet people like me people. that. make i make funny content that i hope is. funny but a lot of it is. wild and crazy yeah i say a lot of wild.

and crazy things. they're very funny i say a lot of wild. and crazy things about powerful people. yeah you mock the powerful in there by. bringing them down a notch. we'll probably talk about it but humor. is one of the tools yeah. to to uh to balance the power. in society well sure or and to make. people feel better about things and to. you know whatever the case may be right. that's my goal is to kind of like hey. people have had a shitty day. if this video or podcast makes you laugh. that's great. i think that it won't ever it was never.

going to stop at alex jones not that i. think he should have been taking off. everything the way he was but. this keeps going until we have sanitized. all of social media and they what they. really want it to be. is what instagram is kind of becoming. which is a marketplace of. you could just go and buy sneakers go. buy a sweatshirt go buy jeans. go buy this go buy that and the idea of. the free exchange of information. seems to be the old internet and it. seems the new internet seems to be.

uh you know hyper and i'm a capitalist. but this seems to be like hyper. capitalist in the sense. like they only want you consuming things. and they don't want you thinking too. much. and that seems to be worth heading i've. even seen that with instagram where it's. like everything on instagram like. buy a sweatshirt yeah you know and i'm. like. all right man hey man if i want a. sweatshirt i'll get it like relax. you know just every ad seems to be uh. encouraging consumption. but very few things seem geared towards.

hey let's have a dialogue or less and. not that instagram was ever great for. that but like. very things are geared now towards. content on instagram a lot of it seems. geared towards. shopping see i i don't know it's an. interesting point i don't know if. the consumerism that capitalism leads to. is necessarily gets in the way of. nuanced conversation i feel like you. could still sell. tim dillon sweatshirts and have a. difficult nuanced conversation. or mock the current president the.

previous president. mock the powerful all that kind of stuff. we try we try to balance that i mean we. have sweatshirts. we do would you they're not are they on. sale now business. uh we do a fake business sweatshirt with. the enron logo fake business cause i. like i do fake business all the time it. would be nice if we talk about alex. jones if you plug. the sweatshirt during that conversation. yeah we'll do that absolutely yeah um. but what i tend to worry about with uh. uh i i. see social media and technology existing.

to flatten. society it makes people very boring all. of the experiences. kids have right now are online. many of their closest friendships are. online their first relationships are. online. uh the culture is is very homogenous. and that's i think it's eliminating. characters it's eliminating interesting. people it's making people into a.i. uh all of their teachers yeah yeah yeah. yeah yeah. charles bukowski as well let's not get. crazy it's not there yet. right i mean the 75 000 dog is not doing.

anything. you know so i mean we're not there yet. listen i hate p i get why you like ai so. much i hate people too. and i'm very amenable to ai and i i i. agree with you like listen i think the. future. we got to get everyone out of here i'm. with you on that so don't think i'm i. love. people he's manipulating my mind that's. why the flash of. light in your eyes when you talked about. that dog was so much more. than any person and i get it by the way. you're right i love people but. if they're not excited if it can just.

use robots to kill. most of them i think that would be good. for society. i'm with that too but uh i i think that. social media flattens flattening the. personalities. personalities of people man and it's. just you know when's the last time like. i like the idea of like. you know and i'm you know somebody. showing up to uh. you know high school like a backpack and. taking out an old cd and being like hey. man. here's this band you've never heard of. that i love or whatever you got to get. into this. and i'm like you know when i talk to. young you know my friends that have.

younger brothers and everything. every and i know that the dominant. culture was always dominant i'm not an. idiot but like. i feel like it's harder to be unique and. original now because. so much of of what's promoted is. just this way to kind of corral people. into believing and thinking. uh a certain set of ideals that's. constantly shifting and evolving. and people are just caught up in that. and to me. it gets very boring very quickly i hate. being bored. and that's what it is i don't know what. to do with that because at the same time.

podcasts are really popular long-form. podcasts really popular and people are. people are hungry for those kinds of. conversations there's a lot of dangerous. ideas quote unquote. flowing uh being spread around through. podcasts. meaning just like debates correct you. know so that's still popular so i don't. know what to. i agree with you that gives me hope i. guess i hope so too and like i said i i. look at the negative a lot because. that's what i. usually make fun of but there's a lot of. positive stuff happening too. let's talk a bit about alex jones.

i so you've gotten a chance to talk to. him. while you were on the joe rogan. experience i've been on alex's show. i've talked i've had alex on my show. i've talked to. alex for three hours in front of i guess. it was maybe like 15 million people. right on joe's show it was a really wild. conversation i think it was one of the. coolest. moments in broadcasting that i clearly. that i've ever been a part of but i. think it goes in the lexicon of like. these are big podcasts like i think it's.

one of the biggest podcasts a week. before the election. alex jones i'm really grateful that joe. gave me the opportunity to to be there. and i it was just an amazing. conversation to watch what was the. shirt award uh it was a fun joke that no. one in tech got because we all know how. funny they are. uh but the tech writers which is mainly. do not agree with these. things mainly blue hair and people whose. you know goal in life is to find. things to give them orgasms with you. know without to dye your hair blue it's. your choice yeah i respect it and but is.

it your choice. but at the end of the day it's like you. know all the tech writers like a lot of. people just. and i'm not i'm just maligning tech. unfairly but a lot of people in that. sense of humor were like he's. advocating for human trafficking i'm. like it's clearly a joke because we're. coming off to believe. all women yes we're coming off that and. it's very funny. to just say free just lane hey man. believable women like it's just. our politics and our and our public. sphere is so schizophrenic right now. that when you point that out people are. going to be angry with you but that was.

a fun shirt to wear. but on alex you know i was one of the. people that. found him really entertaining that that. the same kind of thing as with bukowski. these kinds of personalities. that are wild crazy full of ideas. uh they don't have to be grounded in. truth at all or they can be grounded in. truth a little bit. it like he's just playing with ideas. like a jazz musician. screaming sometimes obviously he has. some demons. sometimes he's super angry for no reason.

whatsoever as some. weird thing that he's constructed in his. own head sometimes he's super loving and. peaceful. especially lately that i've heard him i. don't know if he's seen with him with. michael malus where he's doing uh. like uh malice was doing like. well telling alex jones i love you alex. you know just this. loving kind of softness and kindness. underneath it all. i don't know what to make of any of it. and then there's this huge number of. people. that tell me that alex jones is a is. dangerous for society. right so what do you do with that do you.

think he's dangerous with society do you. think he is. one of the sort of entertaining. personalities of our time that shouldn't. be suppressed. or somewhere in between i don't think. that alex per se. is dangerous for society i think the. greater danger for society comes again. from stifling. all dissent right all like anybody with. a voice. that uses it that critiques the. government and. and putting all of those people in a. category and getting rid of them is. incredibly dangerous to me.

more so i think the biggest problem that. alex has ever had. was when he questioned the sandy hook. shooting and that. really was because it really is this. identifiable. incident that you can look at where it. did get away from him. and a lot of his fans who the people. that are attracted to conspiracy stuff. and i have some of those fans. some of them are really smart people. some of them are mentally unwell. a lot of them happen to be mentally. unwell so when you have a fan base of. people where some of them are mentally. unwell. and you are questioning uh you know.

tragic events okay and alex was right. about epstein he was right about a lot. of things and he's got no credit for. that. and i understand that this he's. sometimes when you write about 10 things. and you're wrong about something. and the thing you're wrong about is so. offensive to people you're never going. to get any credit for being right even. though you were right more than when you. were. wrong the problem was a lot of his fans. who were crazy. stalked harassed these families and. accused him of being actors and accused.

them of like. faking their children's deaths it was. just horrific. experience and alex is tied to that. and and he and and and you know how much. he inspired that by what he did on his. show i don't know. because i haven't watched hours and. hours of. that particular thing like the whole. sandy hook thing um. if you listen to him he says i really. covered it i kind of covered it moved on. other people go no he spent a long time. on it but that's the real danger of.

going into that territory over and over. again. going everything is is uh everything's a. false flag or everything's fake i think. i think alex has actually been kind of. reasonable like he's resisted a lot of. the. the politics of like racial resentment. on like the alt-right for example he's. resisted that. he's resisted the anti-semitic uh. currents of a lot of that politics right. he's resisted a lot of uh the the. virulently. anti-trans or anti-gay stuff now he does. dip his tone in the water of like the. culture wars of course he does.

and but i've never really seen him. and i could be wrong about this embrace. white nationalism. or identitarianism i've never seen him. really go anti-semitic. i've never seen him take that route uh. when i grew up. and i would turn him on every now and. then he was talking about nafta the wto. he's talking about 911 he was talking. about. the the you know the world trade. organizations and a lot of these big. conferences whether it was the. bilderberg group uh. or whether it was uh bohemian grove. which he infiltrated. and he was talking about hey here are.

the most powerful people in the world. here's what they're doing. and here's how it affects you and that. was interesting to me because it was. never no one else was really talking. about it except alex jones. um occasionally art bell on on wabc. you'd listen to him at night right um. i think alex became very controversial. when he decided to back donald trump and. then he has a considerable following and. a considerable audience. that he was then able to marshal uh. in the direction of supporting donald. trump um. that was when the spotlight because then.

he was talking to trump trump did his. show. alex jones just got bigger right and he. blew up that's the term right you blew. off like he. he he had the good uh he put out the. good hbo special whatever you want to. call that he had a hit song. yeah he blew up and then people started. looking at the things that you know he. was associated with. the sandy hook thing is a blemish on his. record i do believe he regrets it. but again i do see the point of the. families who are like dude fuck this guy. forever. this is the worst thing i ever went. through it's a very tough.

um i understand the people that say that. i understand and i and i understand the. people that go. when you coordinate when you have tech. companies that act in a coordinated. manner to just get rid of someone. they don't have any way to defend. themselves uh it's. it's a little terrifying when you think. about that power being abused. and how wouldn't it be do you think he. should not have been banned from all. these platforms i i don't. think i do think that if you are a.

private company. right i do think and this is where you. run into this this problem like i don't. know if these tech companies were. government utilities would. that decrease people's likelihood of. being banned i don't know. right so i'm i'm i. i understand the benefit of them being. treated like public utilities and people. thinking they have the right to a. twitter. i'm i've never i don't know i have very. little confidence i mean the. government's trying to roll out a. vaccine in california and we vaccinated. like five people. i mean in terms of what we need to do in.

the state right. so maybe if it was a government utility. i i do think. someone like alex jo like there should. be some. process so if you're gonna get rid of. someone they should have a way to defend. themselves. there should be more democratic. yeah uh process that you can go through. than just being unilaterally taken off. something but like. then you run into the you're like am i. going to say that everyone deserves no. if you're threatening or. harassing people or threatening to kill.

them publishing their private. information if you're committing crimes. on these. platforms obviously the people that own. these platforms are going to be like. we're not going to allow this to happen. so i understand. that there is a line right there is some. like people that. say there's no line aren't really. thinking like there is a line. uh i just don't that line seems to be. moving all the time. and it seems to be a very hard thing to. police but i don't think you can remove. a guy off. everything and then also bank accounts. won't give him.

debit cards or credit cards i don't know. if you talk to him about that but like. you know there were financial. institutions that were refusing to let. him. you know park his money there so i mean. it really does get. pretty terrifying pretty quickly. um probably without any transparency. from those companies. so you're right there it feels like. there should be a process. of uh just having for him to defend. himself. i think there needs to be a process for. people to defend themselves. i i every day i wake up and i go can is.

something i said in a video gonna get. taken out of context is somebody gonna. get angry is somebody gonna be. you know i say wild stuff because that's. what makes me laugh that's what makes my. friends laugh and that's what makes my. audience laugh. so i i never ever people you know. whatever. whatever political side you come down on. i think if you make your living speaking. it's always interesting to me if you are. pro. the d platforming is that's odd it's. interesting to consider. kind of a jury uh.

context to where you know there's. transparency about why your video about. bombing um. disney world might be taken down like it. it's. uh it gets taken down and then there is. uh it's almost like. creating a little court case a mini. court case and not in the legal sense. but in the. in the public sphere and then people. should be able to have. you know you pick representatives of our. current society and have a discussion. about that and make a real vote.

you know just have like jury locks. himself up in a discussion. that kind of that kind of process might. be necessary right now what happens. is twitter is completely first of all. they're just mostly not aware of. everything they're doing there's too. much stuff but the stuff they're aware. about. they make the decision in closed doors. uh the meetings. and without any transparency right to. the rest of the company actually but. also transparency to uh. the rest of the world and so and then.

all they say is we're doing we're making. decisions because the people. they use things like violence so. violence equals bad. and if this person is quote-unquote. inciting violence therefore that gives. us enough. enough reason to ban them without any. kind of process. it's i mean it's interesting i'm i'm. torn in the whole thing. if it was indeed there's no transparency. about it but. if parlor was indeed inciting violence. like if there was brewing of violence.

potential violence where you know. thousands of people. might uh die because of some kind of. riot. like the that's the scary thing about. mob. about when a lot of people get together. right. who are good people like legitimately. good people that. love this country that don't see enemies. yet. around them but if they get excited. together and there's guns involved it's. a problem and then some. cop gets nervous and shoots one person.

another person. shoots the cop and then there's a lot of. shooting involved and then it goes from. five people dying in the capital. to thousands of people dying in the. capital well in fairness too. to defend uh the people of the capital. they didn't shoot the. cop they they bludgeoned him to death. with a fire extinguisher. yes so i do i do want to just kind of. put that out. as a as a defense of them listen i'm. sure there was some wild shit going on. on parlor and i think the problem. here's the problem right there's a lot.

of people that just want. to go on these sites and say they want. to kill everyone. yeah and the problem is you know at what. point. do you shut them all down like i think a. lot of people. are just living in a world where they're. powerless they don't. have any political power they don't have. any economic power right. they can't throw their money around uh. they don't have health care. their their job security isn't great uh. they might be living in a community that. doesn't have the resources they would. like it to have uh.

they're they're not happy and thrilled. and then they have these sites where. they can go on and just say man. i'd like to fucking burn it all down and. distinguishing a guy blowing off steam. and saying wild stuff from. a genuine threat is a very hard thing to. do. you know like i i've threatened to kill. i got banned from airbnb i threatened to. kill the people um. that banned me comedically yeah. comedically this is a joke i'm not going.

to kill you yeah this is a joke because. i'm blowing off steam. and i'm angry do you know how many. people that my parent like my dad's like. i'm gonna fucking kill this guy my mom's. like i'm gonna fucking kill. and they were talking about each other. but it's. but none of it ever happened but we. should be i think you. you you have to create a space for. people to. threaten to overthrow the government as. long as they don't violently do. it yeah like i mean does that make any. sense like i mean as long as they're not. going to go.

hurt innocent people what are you going. to do like there's so many people out. there that you that's why. a lot of these things like you know. 4chan these sites a lot of people going. on there they just want to say the most. fucked up shit. because they it's the thing that gives. them they can laugh. or they can release steam and it's it is. immature it is stupid. it's not productive it's not you know. but at the end of the day. if you're not going to give people. health insurance you got to give them. something it's like when someone in this. country dies that everyone disagrees.

with right. political figure media figure a lot of. people dance on their grave. online and then everyone people goes. dude there and the other side. will always do it like if a conservative. dies and everyone goes great. conservatives goes this is grotesque. that you. and then when rbg dies they all have. parties and the conservatives go great. um you have to let people in this. country enjoy the deaths of their. enemies. yeah you do because they don't have much. else. again if you gave them other things you.

might say guy. you can go get a knee operation why. don't you. stop but if if they're working for shit. wages. and you haven't figured out a way to to. treat them. uh treat their cancer diagnosis and they. don't like. i mean life you know you know you gotta. have you gotta derive pleasure from. something. right it's an interesting point that. anger is a good valve like to. for if if your life is suffering that.

there's something. very powerful about anger but i still. have hope that it doesn't have to be i. mean that kind of channeling into anger. uh that then becomes hate led us into a. lot of troubles in human history. yeah you have to be careful uh. empowering people too much in that anger. especially. i think mike i think i understand. why people were nervous about parlor. about twitter and so on sure yeah.

because all that shit talking about. violence. was now paired with let's get together. at this location. right this was a new thing like it's not. just being on whatever platform. talking shit it's saying we're going to. in physical space meat and then. everybody got all these platforms got. nervous well what happens when all these. shit talkers. uh all these angry people that are just. steaming uh letting off steam. meet in the physical space uh and there.

was. probably overreach uh almost definitely. overreach but i can understand why they. were nervous i agree there doesn't seem. to be and this is when trump got elected. and when you have like. whatever you have right whether you have. riots in portland in seattle where you. have the antifa people doing crazy. things you have like. you know the people storming the capital. there never seems to be a ton of. uh an examination of why these ideas are. becoming popular. why are people so angry yeah what is. leading people to this yes. why are we here what about their lives.

is to the point where they need to show. up at these places and like and now. obviously there's always going to be. people on the fringe they'll always be. the mentally unwell. they'll always be people that want to. destroy society but when you look at. how popular large you know long. discredited things whether it's fascism. you know totalitarian communism all of. these things are like. why are they back why are they back in a. big way and why are why are people. so fed up with the status quo that. they're. finding you know solace.

in the most extreme uh. discredited theories of how to run and. operate societies theories that have led. to deaths a lot of people so to me i'm. like. if those people at the capitol. yes if they were going to work if. there's. you know if they were able to go out and. drink at. chili's if they were able to. get a fucking checkup right like if.

their job paid a little bit and i'm not. saying. this is all the reason right i'm sure. that there's a lot of people there that. are doing quite well. and they're still nuts but like the. anger and the rage. that's boiling to the surface of this. society. does it come from the fact that. across the board people in very. different. areas and with very different political. beliefs feel like they are being. fucked over and there's nothing they can. do about it. that's what the baseline to me.

they look at the people that run the. country and run the world whether. they're. tech titans the guys that you talk to or. whether they're people that run. the government whether they're people. that run large banks. large media companies the people that. have created. this kind of you know infrastructure. that everyone lives in. these people are incredibly powerless. and when you push people to that point. logically sadly and unfortunately. the next thing does seem to be violence.

yeah the thing that troubles me a lot. is you said nobody's asking why. these beliefs are out there but. sometimes it's not even. acknowledged that people are hurting. people are. angry just even acknowledging that. all the conspiracy theories that are out. there acknowledging that they're out. there. and then people are thinking about it. and talking about it just. because otherwise so it's not.

acknowledged in this nuanced way what. happens is you say okay 70 million. people. are white supremacists it's just. throwing. a kind of blanket statement. and of course that gets them angrier. and more makes them feel more powerless. and that ultimately that that's. what's been painful for me to see is. that. there's not an acknowledgement that most. people.

are good right it's their circumstances. where it's just you're pissed off right. because you were powerless and you must. fall in love you could fall in with a. bad crowd. that's the thing you can just fall in. yeah and it doesn't mean that you're. you don't there's not blame you know. you're obviously you're you have agency. you're a person. you know but the idea that like you. could be rehabilitated you could do. something stupid or you could fall into. the great you know a group of people. that are. and then in a few years you could go. what the fuck was i doing yeah.

you know i'm an ex-drug addict i know. what it's like to go from being one. thing to being another thing right. i'm still a drug if i would use drugs. right now or drink i would still be. addicted to them right i mean it's not. something. that i can ever change about myself but. i know what it's like to go from one. thing to another thing. so when you look at racism or whatever. ism homophobia misogyny whatever. whatever you're looking at. anti-semitism and you go that's a fixed. condition where nobody's ever going to. be able to change. nobody's ever going to be able to be. rehabilitated nobody's ever going to be.

able to. reimagine themselves in a different way. to me. you're just you're throwing away someone. and you're making them feel helpless. and worthless um and that's going to. lead to anti-social behavior that spills. out into. the violence we don't have a very. redemptive society right. that's a huge factor we don't have a. redemptive society. that's why i like o.j simpson because. o.j. yeah yes he did a bad thing supposedly. allegedly yeah but he's. very kind now on twitter and he makes.

very nice. points about how we all have to get. involved in the political process and. he's on golf courses and i like watching. people golf i don't do it. but i like watching him do it and he's. like an elder statesman. because i remember him from the naked. gun and i choose to forgive him. um you know for for for whatever. happened there which i don't know. right but um i choose to forgive him. really for i mean. obviously you know they say that what. they say is he cut his wife's head off. but i. i can look past that yeah and redeem him.

because. he's very like stable on twitter and. he's a good like i see all these people. going crazy on twitter. and i'm like there's maybe oj's lived. the full life. i think there's a benefit to that. there's a benefit to kind of living a. full life. yeah how many of us have not at least. tried to murder somebody. 100 percent listen oj's had the highs. and the lows. but he did it on his terms and there's a. reason. it's like a frank sinatra song yeah he. did it my way i mean like.

there's a benefit to that and he seems. like a very well adjusted person now. so i mean i don't know how is how is. that a fact but it is a fact and that's. an uncomfortable fact well that's a. strong case for forgiveness in the in. one of the more extreme cases. i suppose uh but yeah there's not a. process of forgiveness. it seems that people just take a single. event from your sometimes a single. statement. from your past and use that as a. categorical like capture. of the essence of this particular human.

being so murder. might be a thing that you should get a. time out for. a little while it's bad right and. let's just say that murder is not good. i'm glad you make this definitive. statement oj. oj is an interesting cat because you're. you're like he's very. stable on twitter he's very like he's. like let's take a look at it guys. like we need more of his energy that's. what i'm trying to say yeah i know like. yes it was bad he killed the.

woman and the waiter yeah i'm was not. for that yeah. i wish he didn't do that but the try the. og simpson trial was such a. fun thing yeah and like you said we need. more fun people. you might speaking of fun people you've. uh your politics have been all over the. place. i hope so i hope so i mean imagine not. imagine someone whose politics weren't. all over the place it would seem. odd right like in the 10 years that i've. been politically conscious just because. i'm you know thirty five and twenty i.

know i've probably been conscious for. over two decades but like. democrats have become republicans. republicans become democrats. i remember when ann coulter said we need. to defend george w bush when he said we. need to go out and. christianize or you know modernize the. arab world we need to democratize the. arab world and then. ann coulter uh backed donald trump and. the the all the right wing in america. believe the nation building. they believed in going out and uh. democratizing areas that might. breed radical terrorists whether it was. iraq or wherever you were going.

toppling regimes and instituting new. democratic norms in those countries that. was the right-wing point of view when i. grew up. then the wing switched to. we are going to be isolationists we're. going to take care of america. first and foremost we're not going to go. into other countries. and then the democrats who when i grew. up were doves and. and the right-wing people were more. hawkish and the democrats were like the. military solutions. aren't the way we need to have. multilateral diplomatic coalitions to.

solve all the problems. now you know rachel maddow's like let's. nuke russia every night on. msnbc the democrats are like we need we. need. strong presence in syria we need a. strong presence we need to counter putin. all over the globe. we need to get so they are more hawkish. on things so. literally i have watched two political. parties. literally flip yeah and it's crazy to. watch and in some sense. i've watched that as well because i when. i first saw barack obama.

i admired that he was against the war. this was. whatever uh when maybe before he was a. senator. he spoke out against the iraq war right. and. and then he you know. it doesn't feel like uh. it feels like his administration was. more hawkish than. than dovish in a sense with the with all. the drone attacks. with the sort of inability to pull back. or at least. in mass efficiently pull back from all.

the military. involvement they'll have all over the. world right so and just the language. what i think is interesting about that. what's interesting about obama because. it's a very interesting study. is that presidents are controlled in. very different ways right. you know presidents can be controlled by. different factors power factions within. washington. and you know i think one of the reasons. that uh. obama was maybe you know he had a very. close relationship with john brennan he. was a cia director. and obama was very close with john.

brennan and obama was very. you know um you know i think uh. malleable. to the extent that you know the cia and. i've had ci agents on my show john. kiriakou a guy who went to jail for. exposing. torture was saying that like you know. you get into the oval office. all of a sudden you're having the. presidential daily briefing every day. and the intelligence people come in and. they go. listen man i mean we're there's going to. be a terrorist attack on your watch if. you don't do x y and z. they go we have you know the code they. call it like blue book information which. is five levels above top secret and they.

go like. hey man a guy in uh a guy in uh iran in. a cafe. said he's blown everything up next week. and you know i mean it's the same thing. as parlor you don't know if it's true or. not. but now the president's making decision. on usually a lot of uncorroborated. intelligence that goes into a. presentation for the president where. you're just terrified every day and you. don't want a terrorist attack on your. watch. now so why are they getting all the. information because. a lot of the people in washington have. an interest in perpetual constant. ongoing warfare. and there's a lot of financial gain to.

be had from that so they're sneaking. their information. into the presentations that are going to. the president and then the president is. now behaving and going fuck i don't want. a bomb going off. we got to do what we got to do and. whatever version of that. happens that is really kind of what is. happening whereas. the presidents are being controlled by. forces that are outside. of the political sphere but very much. still in it and they have a lot of. that's what the deep state is you know. trump there's a lot of ridiculing trump.

of gone the deep state doesn't exist. but absolutely exists there's been books. about it written by liberal journalists. the deep state is only a term for. unelected. largely power factions in washington dc. that outlive any presidential. administration these are people that. might work at the state department. they might work at the defense. department uh these are people that. are not always working officially in any. government capacity. they might be private companies they.

might be. uh military contractors they might be. people of boeing or raytheon or general. dynamics. and they constitute uh a. group of people that trump kind of. called the swamp but trump had really no. interest in draining the swamp but it. was he articulated. these things and this is what it is you. have a lot of interested parties. that have budgets that they want big. budgets. everybody wants a budget in washington. whether you know what it is they want. money. um and these are the people who who.

really control press so this idea that. the president is the bln doll. has got to be smashed which is why the. horse race model of politics and being. like is it right wing is it left wing is. it. what team am i on and what color am i. wearing it's very simplistic but the. reality is. this is an empire it's past its peak. we're in trouble the united states is an. empire speaking yeah. i mean that's just his you could prove. that case in court. well let's let's go to court right now. but i do love the. the more complex idea that there's just.

human beings. who create power and seek ways to attain. that power through different ways. if you have barack obama or george bush. or donald trump there's different attack. vectors. correct different ways to obtain that. power and then you can use that to. leverage and. it probably doesn't have to be just in. washington dc. uh there's people who crave power for. all over the world. of course not in but where we are now in. los angeles these people are all good.

uh studio executive people that i from. what i understand they treat everyone. fairly and and they're nice but. i think he sees the bad guys but out. here in l.a west coast. everyone's lovely so amidst this uh. fun exploration in your mind through the. political landscape that you've done. over the past. uh uh couple day decade that you've been. conscious. politically where does donald trump fit. into this picture for you. is uh is a great question.

well he didn't right because we didn't. he wasn't political until. four years ago right he got political. very quickly before. i mean he was firing off crazy tweets. about where obama was born or whatever. yeah but. he was he got into politics like very. quickly and then he became the president. right so it was like. we didn't i knew him as donald trump. this crazy new york city character that. hosted the apprentice. um i didn't think much about him he was. just constant. you know like he was just just as.

constant figures like i don't think much. about warren buffett like i know like. trump's like. he's married to a new showgirl all the. time. and he's always opening another casino. and he's on. buffett really no trump trump like. warren buffett is the opposite right. warren buffet has like been married for. a million years yeah lives in a little. house in omaha but these are the that's. what i associate trump like i don't. think about warren buffett. i don't think about these people they're. just guys that i've known forever. that have like um you know a. uh you know uh you associate certain.

things with them. right and trump we always associate with. kind of vulgar garish. new money billionaire married a lot you. know casinos. miss universe pageants but again you. know but it makes perfect sense that he. he really um was able to. become president at the moment where we. were had we were about to have hillary. clinton versus jeb bush. and i think americans felt like this is. now the oligarchy is spinning right in. our face. you're not even making it feel like uh.

there's an appearance of. democracy we have two crime families. vowing for control of the country every. four years. and then there was this rogue kind of. upstart guy. that was really about himself you know. trump doesn't really care that much. about the. i mean really was summarized perfectly. when he left and he just said hey have a. good life. that's what he said before he got on. andrew's air force base if you watch the. speech. he goes hey have a good life that's what. he really feel like hey have a good life. i'm i'm gonna get on a plane right now.

and fly to a castle i own. in uh mar-a-lago in florida. and really i'm not going to think too. much about you people. outside of how i can get more attention. in the future. can i ask you like a therapy question. what is. your favorite and least favorite quality. of donald. trump so my least favorite quality. of donald trump i think because there's. a few of them. uh his lack.

of empathy complete and total lack of. empathy i don't feel that he cares about. human beings on any level and i feel. like that's. maybe or should be a requirement right i. mean i don't think he cares. i think it's obvious that he doesn't. care i mean he sent you know basically. he's saying like. they're in there mike pence is in there. he knows that his people. are going to get try to get into a. capital i mean those motherfuckers are. not going to have jobs. they're going to go to federal prison. and he doesn't care. he doesn't care as long as they're.

storming the capital to prove the point. that he thinks he won the election. he has no concern for these people. his followers he leads them lamps to the. slaughter right. so that that's that's not a respectable. cause my favorite quality of donald. trump is his willingness to call. bullshit. so his willingness to call bullshit out. he doesn't play the game. uh he will you know when people say. about putin putin kills people he goes. we kill a lot of people here too like. he's he's willing and able to break the.

fourth wall. and say things that no politician has. ever said he's willing to call out. hypocrisy. uh you know of course not his own but. the media uh the members of the. political establishment that's a. laudable quality it's an entertaining. quality right. we all like it i love to i'm like this. guy's saying something that a lot of. people want said. yeah uh that being said it's coupled. with no real work or action. right so it's not coupled with anything. behind it that. he just wants to we did an episode of my. podcast once where it's like essentially.

he's like criticizing the deep state he. wants a deeper state. he wants a deeper state like he hired. his daughter yeah. and her husband i mean this is not a guy. that's interested in transparency and. openness. he's a guy that would just prefer he. wants to run. the the mafia state but he shakes up. the norms of social discourse political. discourse. and that people are just hungry for that. yes but he got. banned from twitter from all the. different platforms. do you think is there an argument to be.

made for and against. baseball so his arguments be made for. everything a permanent ban seems to be. an overreaction to me. he's the president of the united states. it also rearranges the power like. whether you like him or hate him love. him hate him. he was the president we've elevated. twitter is now more powerful than the. president. it's like do you want that to be. long-term the salute that the reality. like now jack at twitter is more. powerful than the president of the. united states. is that a good paradigm going forward.

i don't know i'm not listen maybe give a. little time out for a few days. yeah i think it time now a little. spanking yeah certainly. but i don't know if a permanent ban. across the board on every social media i. mean they banned them on grindr i mean. this is how hilarious it is right. i mean across the board on everything i. don't think he could get an airbnb now. neither can i but like. i don't think he can do anything again i. just i look back and there's so many. people i have very smart intelligent. friends that go yeah but who cares yeah. but he's bad. yeah but blah blah blah yeah but i don't.

like millionaires yeah but blah blah. blah. and i'm like you have such faith you. have such. faith that it's always going to be the. people you dislike that are banned. it's always going to be the p it's never. going to be you man you have so much. faith in the government you have so much. faith in tech oligarchs you've never met. you have so much faith faith in the. security state. that they're going to always make the. right decisions and they're not going to. penalize. people that shouldn't be penalized to me. i'm like. wow i've never had that much faith in.

any human being ever including myself. i wouldn't want that power i would start. deep platforming people that i hate. i would platform my aunt you know what i. mean i would de-platform everyone i know. i mean so that it's like it's it's such. a insane power to give somebody like who. gets heard. who gets to speak yeah i'm worried about. the effect it has on people like you. actually i agree of being like. everybody's a little more nervous. in what they say correct and that that's. a big problem yes because then you're.

just. like long-term unmasked like we're. talking about it has an effect where. people just become. more bland yeah self-censorship. anxiety all of these things go into we. try to fight it. i try to fight it i think i think i. gotta still do what makes me laugh and. what makes me laugh is often fucked up. and it's often you know it's not always. fucked up in a way that you know it's. gonna get me thrown off something but. like. i think pushing certain buttons is funny. to me so i gotta keep doing that.

part of part of the problem is that so. many of the lines are blurred right so. you have. comedians that are commentators and. commentators that are comedians and. politicians. so it's like it's harder to the defense. of like hey i'm a comedian leave me. alone. right that defense becomes harder when. like all of these lines are blurring. everybody's kind of everything now so. like. people say to me you should run for. office and they're serious and i'm like. you're crazy. but they're serious like so the blurring. of everything. means that people aren't in their lanes. as much and that you go well this guy.

is dangerous because he's not just. making a joke. he's doing something else and he's using. humor. and i'm like i'm really not i'm really. just trying to make a joke that's all. that's really what i'm trying to do. but i do think that because of the. flattening. uh there's a lot of people out there. that go they take aim at humor because. they go humor is where bad ideas can. kind of. you know start and flourish but don't. you uh to put some uh responsibility on. you uh. yeah don't you think humor is a way to. uh.

that you are the modern like jordan. peterson style intellectual the humor is. actually a tool of. changing the side guys changing the. absolutely but it also cannot be. i don't think it's any one thing and i. think there's a lot of pressure. uh for a comedian you can be funny and. right you can be funny and wrong. uh if your goal is to be right you might. end up being right and not funny. uh so the reality is funny has to come. first there are brilliant people. that have been funny and and correct.

according to. people right but uh at the end of the. day people that put way too much. faith in what comedy is most of what. comedy is is people showing up to strip. malls and. and telling jokes for an hour while. people eat chicken fingers and they all. get drunk and they laugh. and they feel a little bit better about. their lives that's really the majority. of comedy then there's like 10 famous. people that are really famous. that do a version of that in an arena. but the amount of cultural power they. have has always been greatly exaggerated. my uncles loved george carlin who was.

anti-military industrial complex. anti-anti-that and then they would go. vote for ronald reagan they didn't care. it doesn't. it doesn't really it does it's not as. powerful as you think. i wish it was it feels good it feels. good for me to say. i am the new thing it really isn't. yeah it truly isn't no one is comedians. are the people that get on stage and say. we're fucked up. we're we're we're drug addicts we're sex. addicts we're. fat we're gross we can't manage our. money we can't stop eating.

we can't stop fucking doing horrible. things we're liars we're narcissists. we're scumbags. we're the people that get out and say. that only a. psychopath would look at us and go show. me the way. like it's not i disagree with you well. then i'm. then i'm a psychopath and that's that's. i mean that's. not another thing no pushback that's. another issue uh but you know what i'm. saying one i don't because. uh i mean i understand you using this as. a psychological tool for yourself to.

give yourself. freedom yes but the reality is you are. one of the rare comedians like a george. carlin who is. besides being funny yeah when i hear. things like that i'm like okay. you're being very sweet but like i agree. i understand what you're saying i do. stuff that makes hopefully makes you. think. yeah i hope that's what good comedy is. but i think i i try to do that. but i also would hate to feel shackled. to the idea of that i had to make a. point. and that point had to be correct i think.

the best comedy makes fun of everything. makes fun of both sides. and then there's a deeper truth about. human humanity revealed. but then what happens is people take. that deeper truth and go let's. politicize it. but what does he mean is it the right or. the left and i'm like i'm doing. something that i think speaks to. hopefully. people on both sides for everybody. because i'm making fun of people on the. left. and the right and in the center and. people that don't care people that do. care and i'm trying to figure out a way. to do it. but then immediately anything of value. in this culture right now is like how do. we politicize it. how do we put it in a box so yes i think.

comedy could produce a lot of inherently. valuable things reflective thoughtful. things. but then immediately can it be put in. this box. where all of those things can be used. politically no. and unfor like when they say like comedy. is a great way to speak truth to power. it is but i don't know how much. it changes things i don't know how much. a joke. can dethrone a king i know the idea is. nice.

but let's look at the practical. applications. i mean we had brilliant comics bill. hicks. george carlin richard pry we had people. talk about. so many problems in society illustrate. them. put a spotlight on them uh and we still. have them. they're worse now than they've ever ah. that's not true i think the society is. better and i so. to push back in my perspective it's very. possible that those voices. were the exact reason we have the world. today which i do believe is actually.

uh i mean i'm on the on the. boring old measures of what makes a good. world which is. uh you know the amount of violence in. the world the amount of opportunity the. all those kinds of. measures even happiness all of those. things measured things have been. improving. stephen picker gets a lot of shit for. this but he's really good at. articulating. how the data says pretty clearly that. the world is getting better and it's. arguable that the freedoms we do enjoy.

currently are thanks to the comedic. voices or the people who mock. so to me it's possible that humor is the. very thing that saves the world. humor is the very thing that keeps is. the balance of. my power but i think a lot of the things. that those guys criticized whether it. was. militarism or uh the elites. the lying the corruption the bribery. that's still going on and it's always. going to go on right because that's the. nature of human beings. we call it out we point it out but we. don't have a plan.

to change it's not really our job right. and and i think that too much now. is like well comedians should have a. like i don't tell people who to vote for. like the idea that comedians went to. people who vote for us like to me is. crazy. i understand like people have strong. opinions but like i. i believe i have a job and my job is to. make you laugh or whatever maybe make. you think but like. my job is not to tell you who to vote. for i mean that's absurd but see the. thing you do. yeah by the comedy like on your twitter. that people should definitely follow.

i believe jim jay dillon i agree with. you. oh on the on this point of uh yeah i. agree with you. to follow you yeah you you give me. you give me freedom to think. meaning like you're shaking things up to. where i'm. i don't feel constrained about what i. can think about. and that's awesome that i thank you so. you're not telling me. what to think you're giving me the. freedom to think that's what great. comedy does. is you know i don't i i don't often.

agree with george carlin. he can get pretty political sometimes. but. you know just the ability to do that so. rare podcasts do that too now. like there's certain people that can. really just challenge you. to uh even when you disagree with them. to sort of be like oh it's okay to think. about this kind of stuff. yeah and i appreciate that because. that's awesome and i mean that that's. great and a guy like you is a brilliant. guy. that's great if i'm giving you the. license to think then. man the world is completely fucked but.

i'm happy about them yeah. that's. speaking about the world being uh. completely fucked uh alex jones turned. on q and on i. i know almost a very tough match they. had a rough marriage they fought it and. they fought it out for years. uh and eventually we just knew someone. was going to leave someone. uh tried to leave him a few months ago. oh so. yeah was he staying at someone else's. house the car wasn't in the driveway. um yeah well the thing about q anon that.

makes it a lot of fun. yeah is it it's kind of a make it up as. you go along i've i'm a drug addict. right. so often my lies aren't planned. they're in the moment a lot of what i do. on the podcast a lot you know it's only. in the moment i'll have an idea what i. want to talk about and i rant and i go. and i've been like stoned and i show up. at home and my parents are like. what's going on there was 50 on the. mantel now it's not there. and i'm like well. and i gotta make something up on the. spot right i've been. you know are you drinking again no i'm.

not and then you gotta have a well you. were gone for two days no one knows. where you were and somebody said you. left your car well i was. well this is i was at a sales conference. and i left my car i flew to phoenix like. yeah i understand what that is q anon is. an ever evolving conspiracy theory where. the events are happening. uh in the past in the present and in the. future it's kind of hilarious every. conspiracy theory is like kennedy. something like that there's a lot of. truth in that or all truth but. at the end of the day it's like you're. looking back from 30 000 feet analyzing.

little things that have already happened. q anon's like so i think alex is kind of. like got a little tired of. the constant evolving nature of that. conspiracy theory. so he's not a fan of like the jazz that. it's queuing on so they're not because. they're improvising. they're improvising alex is like hey man. i was on board a little bit but at the. end of the day it's getting a little. annoying because. it can turn on you eventually you become. part of the conspiracy. right still alex is controlled. opposition that's what they'll say. eventually you because q anon just eats.

things. so it's a conspiracy that just eats. things the minute you start to say hey. man maybe that's not. it'll just eat you and go you're in on. it everyone's in on it everyone's a. satanic pedophile everybody. everyone that questions it is uh eating. children and. you go wait a minute that seems. illogical and but now. there's not enough children no there's. not enough and i think q anon's over now. unfortunately uh um because for these. people but i think fortunately for them. they're gonna have to find a new hobby. but i think it's over now because even. the best q anon people now are starting.

to go hey man this might not be going. down the way we thought yeah but they've. literally gone as far as to say that. like body and trump switched faces. trump's actually still the president. except biden's yeah you have to be a. real. moron now you got to be real stupid now. it's at the end like when it was cool. like when the episode stuff happened q. and on was like it was party at queue. yeah and then when the hunter bought. laptop stuff started to happen they were. like dancing. like it's time and then.

biden wins and they're like wait. whoa and it's just like it's the day. after the par. q and on if you ever went to a party in. high school or college queuing on right. now is the day after the party you wake. up. it's it's it's 12 noon the sun is. hitting you in the face you're hungover. there's a stench of disgusting beer. and cigarettes all over the house you're. like what the fuck happened here. yeah i got to get out of here and get a. bacon egg and cheese. that's what q anon is they gotta sober. up get out of that house get a bacon egg. and cheese and go man. we were fucking whacked we were high.

dude i thought nancy pelosi was eating. children for four years. and that donald trump was gonna put her. in guantanamo bay. wow that was because i mean it's. interesting that people had to do that. after the 60s. they're like yeah i just did a bunch of. acid and i lived in a ranch in malibu. and fucked everyone i ever saw. yeah and they're like i thought that was. the way the world was going to go and i. followed some shaman guy some guru who. just wanted to fuck me and. 10 other people that were living there. and uh we did that for three years.

apparently we never created the utopia. we thought we were going to have. and now i'm back working here you know. at allstate insurance. and we have great policies and we'd love. you to come in the office so we can. break them down for you. it all ends folks all the love all the. bullshit ends. but it's fun they had so much fun q anon. was hard to get mad at because they were. this was all they had yeah. and they were fun they were quite good. at it and they were good at it and they. and and and and it was a lot of. desperate people but they were also rich.

idiots there's also like dumb rich. people and you. those are like the saddest people in. queue because it's like they should they. have the resources to do other things. yeah but they just. love queue they're like i'm just into. this i'm like you're. rich go do something how incurious are. you. go to the amazon go birdwatch i don't. know but there. you know so play golf it's sad but. they're like done now i mean. they're they're oh it's over oh so you. think this is the uh.

i think everything's ending my whole. thing is that trump's out q anon's over. the is quarantine's to end everything's. going to go back to. something that's more recognizable i. think that. are you optimistic about the 2021 and. what you want. in certain aspects i have optimism and. then i have. i have short-term optimism and long-term. pessimism okay. meaning that i think in the short term. things can get better i think long-term. because there's so many forces that are. out of our control. that are revolving in ways i barely.

understand that are carving up. society it's going to be very tough long. term to be completely. optimistic like hey it's going to be. great it's going to be good forever but. short term i think yeah this quarantine. will end. things will get better the economy will. get a little better uh the constant. trump craziness will die down a little. bit um that's my hope and people can go. back to focusing on things that matter. which is you know the things that are. near you and close to you. yeah the humans around you humans around. you not. nancy pelosi i have my i have uncles to.

talk about nancy people i'm like you've. never met her. you'll never meet or shut up yeah and i. i i have a belief that this kind of. local love and kindness that you. naturally can have for. human beings that you actually know can. be expanded. at scale through the social networks. that. we use that we build twitter is. currently. failing at that miserably that would be. great but that's if we were able to. increase the love. through the social networks that would.

be great it feels very hard too. it's a worthy challenge uh you've. tweeted. one of the underreported reasons. conspiracy theories take hold. is because some of them are true. what uh conspiracy theories do you. believe. that are sort of. important for people to think about. would you say um. kennedy was not killed by a lone gunman. with no. connections to any other situation. government you know.

i believe that jfk was removed from. office. uh by a group of people that had. very uh different interests. but the question of like deep state so. these are powerful people. that are able now to dictate uh. through basically the threat of violence. what the. president's the surface powerful people. in our society yeah i mean i've no again. i'm not i i want another investigation. into 911 not because i think that george. bush pressed a button and made 911.

happen but because we invaded the. country of iraq. and then we uh you know 15 out of 19. hijackers were from saudi arabia. uh there was tons of stuff in the 911. report that didn't make sense to anybody. uh there's tons of stuff about that day. that i feel like we just don't know. yeah that's hard to interrupt uh that's. when. i my little aunt life touched upon. conspiracy theory world and first. learned about alex jones. is when 9 11 happened it was very. frustrating to me.

how poorly the reporting and the. transparency around what exactly. happened. who knew what all that kind of basic. information that you would hope. the government would release. reveal and use as like a lesson for how. we prevent this instead it felt like a. lot of stuff was being hidden. in order to manipulate some kind of. machine that leads us to war. yeah that's that's fair to say yeah i. mean i just don't feel like we've gotten. the full story i don't know what the. full story is sorry. i can't i don't know what it is but i.

don't feel like we've gotten the full. story. um yeah there are there are groups of. powerful pedophiles. right whether they're in the catholic. church or they're in the government or. wherever they are they. are able to cover things up that they do. they're able to silence people to try to. out them in terms of like. you know disrupt their operations that's. true q anon has nuggets of truth. it just went crazy any conspiracy theory. that involves the knights templar and. also chrissy teigen. is probably wrong what's the nice. templar. well it was just this group of knights.

back in the day. you know it's that you just suppose. these secret meanings and like in every. conspiracy they talk about like. you know if you go deep enough it's like. the knights templar the raw secretions. uh you know all all of these secret. groups throughout history the illuminati. the and there's a thread that connects. all of us oh yes it connects it all to. david spade i mean it's a little much. well how do you if you're david spade. defend yourself by the way you ignore it. because it's hilarious and i know. david's. it's like hollywood's kind of boring yes. there are sex orgies i'm not invited i'm. sure there's shit going on.

kids do get abused women get abused i'll. invite you to one. please if you want with the we get we. got the 75 000 dog. yeah and then we'll get one but you know. i you know me david's big we go out to. sushi restaurants like and you sit there. and you listen to people complain. that's what a lot of it is what a lot of. hollywood is this deeply sad. tragedy that people don't understand. that it's some of it is nefarious and. dark and there are problems and there. are. real power brokers here it's a dark town. 100 percent. but they think that everybody that lives.

here is in some. wide-ranging vast conspiracy isn't true. it ignores how. humdrum boring deeply sad. most people's lives are in hollywood and. it ignores how sad fame is in general. fame's a sad thing not always but a lot. of times it's a sad thing. it's fleeting it's ephemeral it doesn't. last. it um separates you from other people. it's isolating uh it can be traumatic. depending on what's going on. obviously it's better than the.

alternative if you're trying to be. famous. it's better to be famous than not famous. right i'll say that. but it's it's it's a mixed bag to a. degree there are things about it that. aren't great. and hollywood has a deep undercurrent of. sadness of people that have. not realized their dreams and people. that have realized them. yeah both of those people like the. people that win. olympic gold medals can sometimes suffer. from depression correct. they've lost well somebody said and i. forget who said it it's a great quote. it's not mine i think it's from a book.

or it might be from a tv show. sometimes it quotes something and. they're like that's from like. charlotte's web. i'm like oh uh the two worst things oh i. think it's from the movie limitless. i'm like an idiot but anyway thanks for. having me on. tomorrow i will never i will not publish. this um. it's from the movie and i think he says. uh the worst two worst things in the. world are naka oh. you know it's not from limitless i think. it's from the mat that the movie. where nicholas cage sold weapons it was. called lord of war it's a little better. than limitless anyway it's a good movie.

it's a great movie. he said the two worst things in the. world are not getting what you want and. getting it. so the undercurrents of sadness that run. through hollywood are there two rivers. that converge. and there are people that just never had. it and people that have it and go now. what. and so it's a sad place a treasure place. and there's a lot of it's boring. that's what people don't realize is like. it's actually kind of boring well life. is kind of boring life is kind of boring. but there's also like you know so i. think q anon's this way to make. a lot of it seem like it's super. exciting and listen i don't want to. diminish the experiences of people.

who've been abused because there is a. lot of horror here. yeah but the whole q a thing was like. everybody in everything is doing and. that's not true. let's see the just to link on that a. little bit is uh. bill gates the conspiracy theories. around bill gates bother me. because this is me dumb naive. lex thinks that bill gates did a lot of. good for this world. sure first by creating a company that. empowered personal computers and second. by.

donating a ton of money for like. treating malaria. in africa and all those kinds of things. and. there's these huge amounts of. conspiracies i think based on like just. replies to whenever. right uh bill gates does anything like. to me the top replies should be about. how. inspiring that guy is to donate so much. money well i think. i think that's so sorry too and the the. thing i'm struggling with. is if i'm bill gates like.

how do you behave differently how do you. show people that you're. if you're not i don't know doing creepy. stuff that they're. saying he's doing well i think part of. it is that he he's done some. really good stuff right he's an. innovative guy he's on the vanguard of a. lot of things. but he's also the antichrist and i think. that that. is you know they're not mutually. exclusive he is the prince of darkness. as well as some no here's my thing with. bill gates he's a batman villain. billionaire meaning that he's not a. villain but he's got all this money. right. here's the thing i love mosque and all.

these guys i know you love these guys. listen when you have the kind of money. that these guys have and you have the. vision that they have. and they want society to look a certain. way and a lot of them are doing great. things. people they need to get better at the. pushback they need to get a little. better when somebody says hey man what's. going on over there. bill gates needs to be a little better. at going here's what. yeah because you know bill gates has the. money. you know i think he once he wanted to. shoot a missile of dust at the. atmosphere to help global warming and a. lot of scientists were like hey man that. might not be the way to do it.

but no one in history like so few people. in history have had the resources to. even have that thought. yeah that if you have the resources to. have that thought and you have designs. on the way you want society to look. whether it's public health policy. or vaccinations whatever you have to get. a little better. at dealing with legitimate critiques and. obviously you're not defending yourself. against people that say you're the. antichrist but like. you need to get a little better and i. feel like bill gates and some of those. people at that level are like pr. is kind of like you know they're either. terrible they're terrible they're. terrible him and zuckerberg are really.

bad at it. zuckerberg's horrible at it he seems. especially. um bad at public. yeah and it makes me feel so bad because. the problem with being a billionaire. is you lose touch with reality if you're. not careful. i think elon is good at at least so far. maintaining touch with reality no but if. you look at the name of his child you. can clearly see. liz i do like him and i do think what. he's doing with tesla you know my. producer is a tesla and he never shuts.

up about it most people that have. tesla's never shut up about them and. they. talk they think they're part of the. development team at spacex and i i like. that he's created a world where people. can get excited about a 37 000. car yeah and never shut the fuck up. about it to the point where i have to. threaten people with physical violence. to get them to stop telling me about. that their car drives itself. oh you shouldn't have a few less drinks. and a few a few fewer vicodin. and you can drive yourself have you. thought about getting a tesla i've never. thought about i don't. like them they're minimalist i don't. like middle i want more.

i want more i want to travel i want to. see i'm just being. my producer wants a cyber truck i want a. stage coach. old school stage coach horse thief shit. that it's going worse it's going back to. that i live in an area with a lot of. horses. it's going back to like whipping a horse. i want an animal to shriek while i go by. [Laughter]. you want more suffering in the world not. less oh i think we need it. okay but i just don't like that.

billionaire. is a bad word and it's not necessary. sure. not every billionaire is a pedophile i. know but the problem is. a lot of like it's just you know epstein. was very smart at like just getting. people at that house and taking photos. of them. nobody knew what they were doing but. it's like it was one of those things. where it's like after the most social. guy ever like. every photo he's like hey everyone. that's. ever done anything in the world has been. at that fucking island. every human being is like in a photo. it's just weird like i'm in like it's.

funny me and my friends get together. we don't ever take photos right like. last night a few people it was my. birthday yesterday i'm 17. and my my friends came over and we're. just eating dinner right. and we had a fun night just four people. that are over nobody right nobody ever. thought like let's let's. hey i want to remember it let's take. photos. i'm 36. but but everything epstein did. there's just photos. of everybody it's interesting do you. think jeffrey epstein killed himself. no i think he was killed by that guy.

that that that that guy that they put in. the cell that lunatic. uh who's that big muscled guy i think he. was just he did it for money. kept his mouth shut that's money from. whom do you think. massage mi6 cia all three. so there's a lot of pressure from a lot. of different profiles probably probably. massage cia more. i mean it seems very clear that he was. working inside of a honeypot. intelligence operation. just lane maxwell's father was an. israeli super spy.

uh justly maxwell's working for israeli. intelligence it would be odd to think. and of course the cia knows about. everything that israeli intelligence is. doing with americans. so uh i would think that it's a very. cozy relationship with those two. intelligence agencies. and uh i think if you ran it by anyone i. think if you ran up by french. intelligence they'd go. yeah no get get him i don't think there. was any intelligence service in the. world. whose job is to protect the powerful. people that live in their countries that. was against him getting whacked. but do you think it's possible that he. is just an evil person who is after.

manipulating people and also. so that there's a bigger thing so it's. factual that there's a bigger thing. evil people don't get him those are your. facts tim dillon no there's the facts of. the case. you don't get handed a 65. show me. another evil guy who was handed a 65. million dollar. uh place by les wexner show me another. evil guy that got that type of uh. handshake deal where he was basically. uh let off without anything after a. judge had made a.

very sweetheart deal for him after he. was accused of you know molesting a 14. year old. show me another evil guy that uh doesn't. have that kind of backing that has those. type of friends those connections those. type of properties. show me a you know multiple passports. all over the world. so show me a guy without anyone backing. him that's doing it. why did they you know so you think he's. just an evil guy so he's doing this. for whom it's his own just shits and. giggles he's just getting off on it. human nature yeah human nature huh it's.

human nature. 70 million dollar uh limestone. yeah is it human nature and it's like i. don't think it's human. i think it's i think i think they. manipulated human nature but i think. they i think they did it i think just. lane. i think epstein was really just a. functionary and i think just lane. was kind of a pimp and epstein was kind. of a guy that you know made the money. okay and you know hid money and things. like that and worked for a lot of. powerful people. i don't believe in lone pedophiles. anymore. i don't even believe that if you're a.

pedophile you're like in a group. you know what i mean uh you know. whoa i'm not even i'm not even going. there but staying on just laying. us so you believe there's some power in. her what do you think happens to her. no like what what are the great great. question i mean i don't. know what'll happen to her but i imagine. she'll get some type of deal. uh closed-door thing years from now when. people don't really care about the case. and she'll serve some time in a very. relaxed thing or she'll be killed i mean.

again it's like. if she was doing what she was doing. which is i believe the fact that she was. compromising powerful people. so that they could be blackmailed by uh. you know the intelligence uh services of. the us and israel. um probably i don't i don't see how she. wasn't doing that someone's black. someone's using the photos and the tapes. right. someone's using that against these. people someone wants to control these. people. well who and why that's the real.

question and i think the real question. is. you want to continue you want to exert. control over congressmen. and senators and presidents because. they have the power to make decisions to. affect the but the cia just works for. a lot of very wealthy people that's what. the cia went so how the cia started. right it was lawyers bankers they're. protecting financial interest. of multinational corporations all over. the world overthrowing democratically. elected governments. going in and doing subterfuge campaigns. encouraging terror they're doing all.

kinds of crazy stuff. i don't see why that would change i. think that's who they still represent. and i think those people want. uh certain policies and certain people. pushed forward. and i think those people are controlled. and i think one of the ways to control. people is their sexual. problems uh and and that's the way they. did it. i wish there was a way to uh because. everything you just said now. it makes a lot of sense doesn't it. i'm being indoctrinated on air no uh i.

think there's just uh. just a fun random guy who just wanted to. make home movies and presidents. um well you think i'm just some random. guy i'm just. trying to sell myself as somebody who's. friendly with the american audience i. believe you are. backed by people that want people to be. more comfortable with robot dogs. i believe that i believe you're pushed. to be the happy face of ai. which is why out. no editing joe rogan's rule no editing.

this is live. no i mean i wish there was a way to for. some of the conspiracy theories to prove. that that's not the case. like what the the cia is there is some. possibility. in my mind that institutions. like the cia different kind of. organizations. are driven less by organized. malevolence and more by just. incompetence. just bureaucracy being incompetent i. think that argument gets. less and less persuasive when you look.

at all the things they've been able to. do right. now it's it's very certain just you said. that. there's a bunch of them that have done. because there's some conspiracy theories. that are dramatic and true. the question is i wish there was a way. to prove. that some of them are not and it's very. difficult because. so much has shrouded mystery like one. you know one of the things i'm bothered. by is when people accuse other. like athletes of using steroids for. example right and it's just. yes a lot of people use steroids but it.

sucks the. that people just don't believe you like. uh there's some incredible athletes that. look shredded they look. just incredible performers and everybody. uh just says that they're on steroids. they kind of assume yeah. i mean and that and people accuse me all. the time of being on. performance-enhancing drugs and steroids. and it is. hard but what i remind them is it's what. my my my my my appearance as a result of. dedication. uh but hard work diet exercise.

dedication are you on keto. uh i'm on i'm on i'm doing a version of. your keto right yeah so i'm doing a. version of keto right now with bread. and it's do you see what i mean your. carb up sort of. and it's a very it's a good diet for i. grew up in the 90s when nobody ever lost. weight sadly because. every diet was like you can eat what you. want just be accountable. no one even knew what that man so it.

would be like my mother being like if. you have chocolate chip pancakes have a. glass of water. yeah just take a walk around the block. yeah you could go to mcdonald's three. times a day. just walk around the block it's my. parents used to say like my mother be. like just. walk around the block you're fine um. gonna have a cigarette walk 20 steps. walk 20 steps back. it's exercise so um no i. there's too many conspiracies out there. a lot of them are true a lot of them are. bitter angry people trying to justify. their own. uh uh impotence not being able to do.

anything in life and they're like the. people that have done something in life. they're all nefarious it's all that the. card just stacked against me that's 100. true. 100 it attracts usually people. that have not figured out a way to. succeed and. or haven't succeeded on the level that. they want to. but that also being true there are there. is a fair amount of fuckery. going on and provable and you know. we just have to i think separate uh.

separate know that these things are. often inflated or not true but know that. sometimes they are true. otherwise it wouldn't exist if there was. no if there was nothing to jfk. there was nothing to 9 11. if there was. if people felt like they were being. dealt with honestly. this wouldn't exist i mean this exists. because there are. real questions that people have that. don't get answered for whatever reason. and then the vacuum of the refusal to. answer those questions that that. information vacuum. is filled with people like alex jones.

who are curious and sometimes they're. right and sometimes they're. horribly wrong and sometimes they're all. over the place. good storytellers and people love. stories and yeah when there's an. absence of actual alex is a uniquely. american. person like very interesting i don't. know how many countries like how many. people make a living as a conspiracy. theorist a good living in other. countries right it's very rare right. i mean it's very interesting and he. became like i know people that knew him. when he was a kid because i go to austin. and perform a lot. and you know he was a guy that would. take a bullhorn and yell at cops because. he thought dewey checkpoints were.

unconstitutional that's what he was. doing in college. and he just went through he was hated by. the right he was hated by the bush. people he was hated by the. and he went from being this this this. guy that was considered like a. a leftist even like even though he's. never left this he was considered this. like. enemy of mainstream conservatism like he. was not and. like he considered a guy that wasn't a. patriot wasn't this wasn't that. and he just wow like he whines and. whines and ends up. just being this confidant of a.

republican president very divisive. republican president. and he becomes this populist and. everything like that it's really wild to. watch that but. i mean i do think he should retire. eventually just so we could get. you know some i don't know it seems like. a it's a lot to keep doing well i hope. this world allows for. alex jones to continue having a voice. because just like you said he's uh. i use the word fun but really he he. shakes up the norms of our discourse. i do too i do think we need to put more.

value i think entertainment. you know we need we do need to say that. like there are people that should be. allowed to have a voice for. entertainment purposes. right and that's par and that's part of. what donald trump now that he's not the. president. come on let the guy let him talk. who do you think is the best comedian of. all time. oh that's a great question greatest of. all time. you mentioned carlin your uncle's liking. carlin. well carlin is great carlin is.

really hard to argue with but. chappelle is also really great. um louis c.k is really great i don't. know that there's what joan rivers. is great i don't know you smile at that. because. i was a beast of a comic i'm not aware. of her stand up actually yeah. just of a comic ask rogue and ask any of. them um. kennison's great so what makes a great. comic do you think. in the history of comedy just like said. something.

at the moment in a way. found a way to communicate with people. in the funniest possible way. at that moment and illustrate you know. illustrated larger truths about life. in what they did and i think that guys. like louie and chappelle. and uh pryor and kinnison and hicks. people like joan rivers uh have done. that. and even you know modern people people. like maria bamford's an amazing comedian. it's just a different style of. comedy per se but she's an amazing.

community uh you know. kat williams is an amazing comedian you. know it really is. does he have any well see the one of the. things you kind of mentioned the. community as you mentioned. they were kind of fearless and saying. that difficult things that needs to be. said. kel williams is more i i don't remember. his comedy but i think it's just more. wild out there well to an extent but you. can watch it he's got stuff he talks. about stuff he talks about race. brilliantly he talks about america. brilliantly no i think there's a lot of. stuff there. and of course chris rock chris rock of.

course it's so hard you can't really. pick one. you just gotta there's a class of people. that throughout this. history of this business which is not. that long of a history it's you know. pretty much within the last century. uh you know that are have been really. influential sometimes it's style the way. they deliver things sometimes the. substance of how they. you know what they're saying or. sometimes it's just a style of what. they're saying i mean. and we're only talking about stand-up. comedians right so there's a million. great comedians i mean if we're going to. talk about jim carrey. and adam sandler and chris farley i mean.

these are brilliant. and those guys are bigger influences on. comedy i think than stand-ups really. truly. so there's there's there's so many. brilliant people in the in the business. who was for you and like influential. just the early on. hicks was influential because i'd watch. bill hicks and i'd be like this guy's. saying crazy shit on stage and this is. the only way you can get away with it is. because it's so funny. and he was calling out like you know the. military industrial complex and he was. talking about the first gulf war i. remember he said a joke. that i heard it made me sit up straight. he goes he goes he was in canada and he. said we got a war in the states he was.

talking about the first gulf war. and he said i was in the unenviable. position of being for the war but. against the troops. and to me i loved that joke it was so. funny to me and i was like oh you can't. get away with that anywhere. other than standing on a stage you could. never say that in an office really and. this was before like it was like pc. and they said the other thing i always. knew that comedians. had to say shit and have it be funny. enough that you couldn't get away with. it in polite society that was the whole. point. that was why it was a dark theater or a.

dark night club that's where people had. a few drinks that's what the art form. was and that's why. i so a guy like that was influential. because i started watching him. and of course like you know i loved snl. when i was a kid and i would watch. chris farley and i would watch um you. know people like. even john belushi going back in the day. but i'd watch adam sandler. and will farrell and all these guys i. mean the there's so many funny people. but. bill hicks was kind of funny and then. patrice o'neill was like probably my. favorite comedian who's made me laugh. more than anybody else.

um i think it was you actually that's uh. maybe on your podcast we're talking. about patrice onyeon that he was. actually. vicious to others i think he was a. little mean to other people but he was. very good to people that he liked i. guess i think he was like. not i mean he wasn't and i've never met. him i have no insight info. but from what i've heard he was like no. nonsense guy right he just said what he. wanted to say. but i think in terms of comedians i. don't know of anyone funnier than. patrice o'neill. who said in modern times that.

said more about our society than him i. mean he was just a brilliantly funny guy. on the radio he was funny on his. specials he was funny. everywhere he was funny and there's. something else to be said about. the whole medium of comedians doing. podcasts yeah because that's uh it. unlocks a weird. special new thing that changed. everything i mean. rogan started with that yeah you're. doing that. it i think that's a whole other form. of like stand-ups yeah the ones that.

have a lot to say. almost like uh we get to witness. the process of the creation of the jokes. in a way or the mind. right the the sort of the evolution of. the mind behind the jokes. which is comedians relate to social. media. comedians are commit comedy's uh. it's a performance based medium so it's. about getting up and doing it getting up. in a club getting up in a theater. getting up in a bar getting up wherever. you can get up. and comedy for years was about.

performance and then on the higher end. it was about movies and tv shows. but we were very slow to get on youtube. we're very slow to adapt to technology. we're very slow to monetize anything we. did on the internet. so podcasting was a way for comics and. funny people. to kind of get into that space start. earning money. and now because the pandemic has really. become essential. and it helps you and even without the. pandemic it was where people.

were it was how you were building a fan. base and that's like. you know but comics were very reticent. to embrace social media at all because. they thought it was cheap. and they didn't like it and they thought. the people on it were idiots and were. unfunny and it was just a blatant. you know whatever it was whether it was. a money grab or it was just too. commercial and. in in a sense where they're like hey. look at me like it was just goofy right. um and then comics i think got. displaced because all the youtubers came. in. and all the social media stars came in.

and they really knocked. comics off because now people are much. more like if you ask anyone under 30 who. their famous favorite comedian is they. say david dobrik. and there's nothing wrong with that. david's a funny guy but like what you. you know i don't not especially to me a. ton but that's okay i don't you know. but he makes people laugh so he's funny. um but. he's what people you know that's a. comedian now so comics. got beat by other people coming into a. digital space.

before they did laying the groundwork. and. taking it over and now comics are just. trying to stay alive. like even my podcast which is people. really like it thank god and i. i love doing it the tim dillon show well. thank you. uh i was late you know i mean i was i. just. you know it i've been podcasting for a. long time but really dedicating myself. and putting the resources behind it i. was late to it like i was like hey i'm. i'm telling jokes on stage which is. great but i should have been allocating. more time to building an infrastructure.

online. and i wasn't doing it and a lot of. comics weren't doing it funny comics. weren't doing. comics that should be doing it and i. think when the pandemic ends a lot of. comics will just keep doing. live stand-up but i will keep obviously. i'm going to go back on the road and do. live standard but i will keep doing this. podcast and building digitally too. you're also exploring. ideas you're doing like short videos yes. and so on you're. you're trying to look for different. mediums of uh. everywhere i want to be funny everywhere. i love making things too my producer ben.

avery is like a brilliant. editor and comedic mind even though he's. not a stand-up. he's able to on he understands funny he. understands what makes me funny we're. able to make. these really i mean some of those videos. they're just brilliant little videos. even though they're tiny little videos. they're fucking as funny as anything. and it's not me it's me working with. somebody else to make something really. great. and if and and it's that relationship. that's very important. um in some sense the uh the medium of a. short video is a challenge just like the.

medium of a short tweet. of course how to say something i mean. whatever the flavor is. uh of what's in your heart what's your. mind how to say it whether it's the goal. is funny. right or something or just an expressing. idea i think it's. the whole thing that's important to us. is that it's an extension of really like. an extension of your friendship in a way. like are you guys laughing at it. right are you guys making each other. laugh about this idea. yeah and if that's the case other people. are going to laugh at it.

you know i think so much of the old. medium was like everything was top down. okay pitch me this idea i pitch it to. the show runner they pitch it to the. network they pitch to this. that you know standards and practices. sales and. we got to go through everything now it's. just like our me and a few buddies. or even just one buddy laughing at this. idea. does it captivate us and do we see it. visually. and also a great line from roseanne. a guy not roseanne but a guy that worked.

on roseanne uh. the old roseanne the great one he said. is it funny with the sound off. right that's what we try to do that's. brilliant is it funny with the sound off. when you see me and the dumb things or. me and the mega mccain yeah or me and. the thing. is it funny with the sound off and if. you're funny with the sound off you have. a good starting point. that's hilarious because uh you i would. say you're one of the people. because most people are not funny with. this honor most comedians like you. you will ferrell is another example of. that there's something about when i.

click on one of your videos it's funny. just like the first. thing i see yeah just your face we well. thank you that's very sweet. but i mean thank god i mean that's what. we try to do right we're trying to be. funny yeah so we're trying to be funny. can you talk about love a little bit. sure. so you came out of the closet. as being gay when you were 25. yeah it's. a lot it's late. very late very late before today's. standards. during and after how has your.

view on love evolve. interesting it's so hard to say because. like i would i. i'd like to make a very like disney fine. statement about like that you can't be. in love. uh secretively you should be honest love. should all be about honesty but that's. not true. right there's people that are in love. that are lying to everyone else. but they're deeply in love yeah um i. would love to say something like. honesty's of ingredient for love. you know but i don't know maybe honestly.

with each other. but i mean i know i i think there's a. lot of people in the world that aren't. honest. my view on love is super important uh i. think that. it's we a lot of society in america is. all about. love we don't tend to focus on other. uh things in terms of like you know. uh friendship or sustainability of that. because i think that a lot i know a lot. of people in relationships where it's. like. i don't know they're not they are they.

love each other but like. it's also a rock-solid couple because. they are. they're very compatible in many other. ways right so i think they're like. friends. they have right i see friendship and. love is the same thing right. there's parts of it that are right so. it's like i look at it as like. there is there needs to be more than. just like that. like amazing like chemistry or physical. attraction. that is this chemical thing that happens. there should be like some underlying.

i mean again that's from what i that's. what i've. observed as really long lasting. successful relationships well. is there something about coming out that. that was uh that you took away that you. remember as. yes profound and insightful it was i. that i. it wasn't society it was me so there. were kids that were out in my high. school. that i waited years later to do it that. was no one's fault but my own.

so i was taking a cowardly way out and a. lot of people so i could blame. society or like oh i lived in a. conservative area and i grew up. you should take responsibility for your. own decisions and if you're being. cowardly admit that you're being. cowardly. so that's what i took out of it is it. it's not society's fault. that you chose to be a coward society. will never be perfect. you have to be honest when you're ready. to be honest or however you want to be. honest. but it's not somebody too much now is. it's everyone else's fault. that you didn't take make a hard choice.

or a hard decision so that's kind of. what i took out of it. so now in retrospect you see yourself as. were. being afraid do you right do you think. at the time. well i wanted people to like me which is. that it was just the disease of. humanity right is that we want to be. liked and what happens is if you. want people to like you and love you. even you want uh people to feel. comfortable with you. and those were people like your family. friends more. my family i would always you know could. always throw in the street but. my i'm kidding i mean but i am not yeah.

uh. but my friends my circle of friends. which i were my family at the time when. you're a. senior when you're 10th 11th grade in. high school your fa your friends are. your fam. you know what i mean like that's your so. you don't want to do anything that puts. you. on the outside of the circle this is. thinking back to that fear is there. things you're afraid of. now are there not doing you're afraid to. do. i'm afraid of all kinds of things i'm. afraid of. not being good at my job not being funny. letting people down. uh not putting out products that are.

good. you know whether it's the podcast every. week or stand up or the videos like i'm. afraid of like there's a ton of people. that really enjoy what we do. so when you're in that position you're. nervous that. you're gonna start doing things that. they don't like so the new things you. want to do the. evolution you want to do you want to. make sure you're evolving in the right. way. you know you want to make sure that. you're doing things that are consistent. with why people liked you. but also you don't want to put yourself. in a box and limit. what you can be going forward so like i.

had a talk with the ceo of nbc universal. once. i was doing some internal sketch for. them and. i was playing like a cab driver and he. was a and he's not the current ceo but. he's a former ceo and i said what's the. hardest part of. running a corporation of this size and. he said something very interesting. uh he said the hardest part is. maximizing the current. profit model of what you have at the. same time. getting ready getting ready getting the. company ready for where it's going to be. in five years. he said those are often at odds and. that's the toughest thing he goes.

because i could just. bang out everything i got to do right. now and we're going to make a lot of. money doing this. but am i devoting enough resources into. digital so that in five years when. that's where everything lives are we. competitive. in that space so it's funny as i am now. hopefully to people and. a lot of the things that i want to do. now i'm going what am i what groundwork. am i not laying. for three to five years down the road so. that i can be adapting. to the trends that are important then. in terms of not so much comedic trends. but like the.

technological trends like what is the. what is it you know i should have done. podcasting earlier what should i. should i have a bigger presence on tick. tock should i have a bigger presence. here should i have a business or should. i be on twitch. should i be doing this should i be doing. that what am i not doing that i should. be doing that i'll regret not doing. and those are those are the. conversations i think i have in my own. head all the time and i guess there's. parallels to coming out as gay or just. parallels in in like career paths you're. taking. all that that's ultimately just fear. it's fear.

yeah it's the fear of you know the the. best thing that happened in my career. was that i came to la. i didn't have an idea of what was gonna. happen. i met somebody who was really uh. committed to making funny things. that we just wanted to be funny no one. would let us be funny we didn't have. comedy central letting us be funny we. didn't have hbo we didn't have netflix. we just had a garage. and a phone in the beginning and then a. camera and then a thing.

and we just wanted to be funny and that. was the greatest risk really i took. because i was like well. i don't know what else is going to. happen right now but i just want to be. funny. and funny saved my life right i mean. funny got me out of drugs funny probably. got me out of the closet funny was. the thing that i was able to do that. made everything okay in my own head so i. was like as long as i'm being funny. something good will happen so we did. that. and then something really cool happened. that we were able to do a lot of cool. things. but you know that's what it is it's fear. that keeps you from being the better. version of yourself. your mom i mean you have so many.

complicated. fascinating parts of your story but. thank you your mom. uh as you were growing up suffering yeah. well for mental illness yes. schizophrenia. can you tell her story and how that. relationship has changed over the years. yeah well she was always uh eccentric. and always you know the terms for. schizophrenia in an irish catholic. household where we didn't talk about. anything were. eccentric fun she's fun there's a. theme to this unpredictable she's.

uh a while she was a live wire. any of the words you would use to. describe somebody who's a fucking. lunatic. but you wouldn't say that um. right she she started experiencing uh. symptoms probably early on in her life. but she also like i think. started really manifesting them when i. was in my. mid teens so like 14. 13 14 area and she got.

really really bad and then i think she. was institutionalized about 10 years ago. a little over 10 years ago. and she could really no longer live on. her own she was unable to. go to work she was unable to function so. i visit her when i can obviously i'm not. new york whenever i go to new york i. visit her. she's aware of what i do my career and. everything like that you know she has. good days and bad days but. you know mental illness is a thing it's. very tough we don't talk about it as a. society people with mental problems. don't. get that much attention we tend to think. that they did something wrong. uh or that they deserve it or that they.

are. you know to be ignored and we don't. devote a lot of resources into it which. is unfortunate because. then you have the junk gurus come in and. go like let's diagnose your mental. illness. off instagram and it's like that's not. the move um. yeah do you uh do you love her i do. i do i love her but i also remember. her that isn't her now and when someone. has mental illness that's severe you. make. peace with their death before they die.

oh yeah. because the part of them that you love. and remember. a lot of cases is is is not. evident or obvious now my mother's still. a loving person that i love. but the fun her ability to. be present in the moment and to not you. know. that is lost with the progression of. realness. so that you still love her and i mean. again you know your parents. you know the time horizons you have with.

your parents are unknown people don't. know you could you know i have friends. that. their parents are in their lives for. their entire life and i have friends. whose parents were in their life but my. mother was a very. she knew what i was when i was a little. kid i was an actor when i was like six. to 12. my mother knew that i was a performer. she knew what i was and what i'd. ultimately do. she recognized that in me and when i. said to her i want to audition for shows. i want to be on stage i want to be on. this i want to do this. she let me do it because she knew who i. was. and she didn't want to get in the way of. me being a human being. a fully realized person at six.

so that's probably the best thing a. parent can do for a kid is let them be. who they. are and my mother did that so that i. mean that's good. we we ate too much fast food there were. negatives but she did let me be. well that's why you want to throw them. out into the street yes sometimes. uh but coming uh coming to accept uh. mortality of her. i guess identity as you remember it from. childhood.

do you uh ponder your own mortality. are you afraid of death i'm afraid of. death i don't like the idea of death but. i know what's happening. you know i know it's gonna happen. eventually i don't think about it. i think about i want to do some good. stuff that people can look back at and i. think i'm proud i'm proud of the show. where if people look back at the show i. don't know how comedy ages or whatever. but like. i think i put out a lot of stuff and i. want to continue to put out stuff and i. want to put out a few specials that. people can look back at and go. oh this guy was really funny in this. really crazy you know he lived in the.

the latter part of this century when all. the shit was going on and he kind of. made. fun of it and he did something to make. uh people's lives a little better just. by. having you know a few laughs you know. what do you think about. this is something like in the podcast. context. do you think you'll have just one or two. or three. shows out of thousands maybe that are. like the truly special ones. that's probably the case or do you think. it's the entirety of the body.

of work i think people will take. 10-minute clips from. all different shows and put them. together and it's a highlight yeah like. a highlight reel of just like these are. like the the best things that he's ever. done or the best the rants he's ever had. the best things whatever. so the legacy would be that this was an. important voice in a. very weird time i would hope i would. hope that. that's part of it and i hope that i. continue to be you know. what you say important i say funny but. hopefully. i continue to be a voice and that's what. i think when i think about death i think.

about like. what did people what did people come on. earth to do and i think i came i think. my main purpose on this planet other. than to experience. whatever love or you know worthiness or. whatever. is to make to entertain people and. there's a lot of people in comedy right. now that are not entertainers and that's. really the problem. uh but and they got into comedy sort of. the way that you know. uh you can walk into the wrong store in. a mall and then not realize you're in. the wrong store and try on a bunch of. clothes and then go fuck i wasted my. whole afternoon.

but i think i've always kind of been an. entertainer and that's what i want to do. there's uh unfortunately sadly a lot of. people that look up to you. that is a horrible thing but life is a. nightmare. yeah uh if you were to give them advice. young folks people in college maybe even. high school. but people in their 20s about what to do. with their life. uh whether it's career whether it's just. life in general what would you say. ignore everyone make a few good friends.

truly have honest conversations with. yourself about. your what when do you feel the most. alive. figure that out when and how do you feel. the most. alive yeah figure that out. try to figure out a job or a career that. can replicate that feeling. um don't listen to anyone don't listen. to your parents. don't listen to the gurus on the.

internet don't listen to me. don't listen to anyone figure out. you know where you feel the most alive. where do you feel excited. where do you where does your pulse. quicken what do you feel. matters when you're in a situation do. you feel like it matters. uh what situation was that what got you. excited. what thing did you walk into where you. looked around. and were taken back and you're like wow. this is amazing and i'm filled with awe. if you can figure out a life where you.

you you can. excite yourself you might not use drugs. or. alcohol or a sex addiction or gambling. or irresponsibility you might not have. to get your fucking. kicks in very destructive places. if you can get them in a productive. place we got a. you had a pretty weaving life. that's full of uh mistakes and so on. many mistakes is that.

are mistakes a bugger feature like do. you recommend. uh embrace the mistakes like make a. bunch of them depends what they are. right so well you you've had the full. spectrum i've had a lot but a lot of. mine could have sunk me. right like they sound like fun when i. talk about them but they actually could. have. sunk me and they were all part of what. made me. funny but i don't know i would never. tell anyone else. to just light their life on fire and. hope it works out on the other end it. would be pretty irresponsible.

but hey at the end of the day it's like. you're gonna we get there's you know. i think one of my themes is that there's. too much we give the power. we think we have to the power of choice. has been elevated on our society to uh. an unhealthy degree. i think people are i think you could you. could get really good at something but. you're born with a certain. aptitude it might be to be a deal maker. it might be to be an. athlete it might be to be an artist it. might be to be a romantic just fall in.

and out of love in and out of love in. and out love it might be to be like a. world traveler like. but whatever you are i think you are i. think that there's something about you. that makes you. something and if you can figure it out. and then refine you're not going to be. good at it per se. but if you're if you're an athlete it. might not mean that you're going to be a. great athlete in the history but it. might mean you're the best coach. anyone's ever had or you're. the person that you know builds a local. scene for young athletes or whatever if. you are. a really good deal maker it doesn't mean.

you're going to be warren buffett but it. might mean you're somebody who enjoys. making deals all the time and things. like that like. if you're an entertainer it might mean. that you are. an entertainer it might mean that you. are in the world of entertainment. because you. love it so much that if you lack the. skill set to really pursue it. on a degree you just want to be like. there's there's a there's a thing. inside of you that makes you what you. are. i think i look at certain people and i. go you were born to be that thing. you know my whole purpose is to find it.

i was a juror on that murder trial on a. murder trial in long island and the. the woman who's a d.a i'm like you were. born to do this you were born to. put murderers away and this guy killed. the mother of his children and he was a. bad guy but like i was like you are. really good at what you do. she has a strong belief in whatever her. moral code is and what her. justice and ethics are and she wants to. communicate that to people. she was very good at at doing what she. did i don't know the facts of the case i. didn't really listen he seemed guilty so. i just voted guilty. but she i didn't really listen to her.

but i heard the shape of her mouth was. very bovine like a cow and. it conferred a certain level of. expertise that i. enjoyed well it's funny i mean you could. see. you're half joking yeah you can often. see. that people just this they found their. place they found their roles found their. thing. they found their thing and that's kind. of the the purpose of life and once you. are in the in the place that seems. sticky like. the place that seems right you know. that's one of the problems with the.

generation that you're speaking to. is there's always a feeling like i. should keep exploring keep exploring. but it's okay to stay in a place that. you follow that works yeah and. listen sometimes the best place you'll. find is like one point people are like. when did you feel really excited and. alive it's like doing nothing right. yeah you know like that's the other. thing it's like some people are gonna be. like i feel really excited and alive and. i'm laying in my backyard in a hammock. yeah and i just wanted the simplest life. and not have to do much and i don't like. doing anything.

and i love laying around and going wow. this guy looks good today. yeah bill gates goes this sky looks good. today let's shoot a missile into it he. wants to do shit right so it's like. in between that and nothing is you can. find something. but in that process for you personally. i mean for me and for others i think. there's a struggle. when you look in when tim and dylan. looks in the mirror do you. love yourself or do you hate yourself. well a lot of times i think i'm amy. schumer so i'm confused. i don't i'm a dayton to myself all the.

time i don't love myself or hate myself. addicts have a very uh bad uh. problem where you can't just fall in. love with yourself and you can't hate. yourself. both of them lead you to a negative. place you try to stay kind of even. keel i don't go like hey man you put out. a video i got all these views things are. great you sold a bunch of tickets let's. fucking go out like maybe let's. hey man let's have that drink that. you've been waiting for for 11 years. and i don't look at myself and go you. ate a burger yesterday you're a piece. of shit you're horrible you'll never.

you know get into the shape you want. like i try not to get too low or too. high. both of them are not good for my. particular mind. okay i i gotta ask we were kind of spoke. about 2021. and you being potentially hopeful. hopeful short-term. cynical long-term yeah so let me ask. i forgot to ask are you moving to austin. i don't know i mean i don't think so. immediately you know. i love joe i love what he's trying to do. down there i'm i'm appreciative of.

everything that he's done for not only. me but for comedy in general. and i think as things happen in austin. and unfold it's such a political answer. but as things unfold i will consider it. more and more but i mean. i think i got another year in l.a so you. uh. you've spoken so nicely about this. magical place that is los angeles. so you're very funny you think there's a. place for comedy in l.a. oh yeah there'll be a place for comedy. in l.a so it's going to be a place for. comedy in new york. i mean the question is how thriving of a.

comedy scene is austin going to be. and the joe can probably make it one but. as of right now it isn't. so that would be him doing that but the. question there's a lot of people. escaping. los angeles but i know better about new. york there's a lot of. really brilliant let them go there's. there's other people this is the thing. it's like this is the fear thing it's. like no but all the brilliant people are. leaving. there'll be other people and they'll. fill their shoes the way that they've. done throughout history. and i think that new york and la listen. maybe in five to ten years they're not.

the two cities. it would be real rough in five years. when this pandemic's over. for people in australia to go dude you. gotta go to america you gotta visit. charleston and austin. yeah stop let's see adults here let's be. adults. it's still gonna be new york in l.a for. a while uh la's is is it absolute. hellscape but i don't think. you're gonna replace california with. another place yeah and also everyone's. making decisions now.

because we're literally in the midst of. a pandemic we've never had before right. we've never had this before joe loved. california up until the pandemic he had. problems with it. like we all have problems with it. there's a lot of benefits to being here. i think a lot of us made pretty bad. decisions in 2020. because we're all locked up and stuck. with their own thoughts. but so it's funny there's parallels. because i don't necessarily. you know i'm obviously a fan of comedy. but i don't care where. comics move sure but there's a parallel.

move that's happening instead of. decisions which. do influence my decision making which is. where to start a business. that's tech centered and that's more. about. the uh san francisco silicon valley and. there is. a lot of people leaving there that's. everyone in austin. there well austin there's a i think. there's there's a bunch of different. places phoenix there's denver. austin will probably be a massive tech. hub. elon's there it seems like it's all. everything about austin says that it's.

going to be a massive tech hub. i just don't know if that means it'll be. a massive comedy hub yeah it might. i don't know if those two can actually. coexist it's interesting because. yeah i don't i think you know comedy. suffered in new york in l.a when. everyone got super rich. like you know it just wasn't as cool. it's still much more fun on the road. it's still more fun to perform for. people that want and need to laugh. in strip malls than it is to perform for. hedge fund managers on. and with their dates and uh you know. instagram models in la it's just what it. is comedy on the road is much more fun.

so maybe in the spirit of that austin. becomes but you know. you know if austin is just colonized by. tech bros and stuff like yeah i mean. sure it'll be fun and it'll be great i. think joe's. made a l.a scene so if anyone's going to. make austin a scene it's joe. yeah and i like the on the elon side. which is what i'm. much more familiar with the promise of. the possibility of. what that could become because there's a. lot of problems in silicon valley and of. course it might be. naive to think that just because it's.

like the grass is greener thing which is. just because the place where you come. from has a lot of problems doesn't mean. you can just create a new place that's. not going to have those yeah there's. homelessness in austin there are. problems in austin i mean i i think that. with by the way. with the influx of very rich people to. an area. sometimes that helps things but. sometimes it just makes things more. polarizing and it spots puts a spotlight. on those problems and makes those. problems. even bigger right so i mean i don't know. that it's necessarily it's hard to. predict. i just know the la right now is funny.

it's funny that there's 15 year old tick. tockers making millions of dollars. dancing in a house. while the world burns that is very funny. well it's for your. for for your style of humor yeah yes the. absurdity. it's funny that it is no one cares about. hollywood starlets and actresses and. actors and everyone goes hey fuck you. even though they've won. three academy awards they're all being. replaced by just mediocre. dancer 15 year olds i mean it's like. there's something hilarious about this. city and it will burn in hell but so. will everything so what are we talking.

about. uh yeah eventually the the sun will die. out and we will all be gone unless we. colonize outside of our solar system but. you know. i i stand i just sit here you know i'm. struggling with this because. boston i'm currently at mit boston. doesn't feel like the right place to. start. a business uh in the tech sector. and so i'm choosing i'm looking at san. francisco the way it is and i'm looking. at austin. austin clearly so it seems clear.

but it's it's such a difficult thing to. uh to predict what a place will look. like in 10 years in 15. years or 20 years and it's so hard to. participate you'll like it or not until. you're there. and you know this is speaking to risk um. there's not really a good reason for me. to move anywhere. well there's not a good reason to do. anything in life. part of me wants to uh just fucking do. it. and whatever and see what happens like. boston do you like other things about. boston besides the. tech thing mit that's the problem and.

but do you like you like like the food. in boston do you eat food i haven't been. i. haven't eaten food or been outside for. years and i mean that. that's probably the better version but. you're keto forever. you've been keto for a long time yeah. keto fasting. for a long time uh 15 years fasting. uh eating once or twice a day. i'm not having uh no sugar ever no like. no sugar and no pasta ever no.

no bread ever no pasta no bread no. except like uh so my source you could. kind of live anywhere because like. going out is such a big part of what. city you live in and like. you like the food there do you like the. restaurants can you meet people whatever. but it's like you really can just kind. of. yeah so not married no kids right you. have freedom i'm me too i have freedom. yeah and that that's we we have the. curse of too many choices. right that's the thing we have too many. choices we don't have somebody else. going what about like we don't have to. justify our decisions to anyone yeah.

so we can just kind of like let our. minds go run wild so you just gotta. hone the instinct of just what feels. right and just. fucking do it and that's austin with joe. down there and elon down there austin. seems like a real. no-brainer move right for you to try you. know why the hell not. why not why not and then i think i. should go to mit. like i mean i mean i think i should give. those nerds a piece of my mind yeah you. should go to. i was in an uber pool once with a kid.

from mit and i was eating uh. this thing from bova's bakery i forget. what it was it was like a uh. it's so good i don't know you don't know. bova's bakery right yeah i was in boston. it's famous. i was eating a thing i was like covered. in chocolate this kid like this little. nerd like this little like you know. usb drive with feet was just staring at. me and they just dropped him off at mit. and he like scurried away. yeah but that's a big school that. doesn't the nsa recruit out of there. heavy like at mit. places like that i can't i can't speak. to that.

but what this is ridiculous. question i sometimes ask myself when i'm. alone what is the meaning of life. do you think about the big existential. kind of. why the hell we're here it's a cosmic. kind of joke kind of in a weird way. right i mean. joe said it the other day on maybe it. was you. saying that like he was just like you. know by the time you figure out what it. is you're out of here. you know it's kind of interesting or you. even start to figure out what it is. you're out of here it's like it's like. that's kind of funny it's like you don't.

get enough time. to truly i think the meaning of life is. just like. at the end of the day do you feel it was. time well spent. was it time well spent that's. that's really what it is if you look. back do you go hey. it was time well spent like a pretty. good ride it was pretty good ride i did. i did it did a lot. i did a lot of things i i doing what you. say. is a part of it i think if you say.

you're gonna do something maybe doing it. uh that seems to be extrapolating the. meaning of life question to like. you know what did you come here to do i. think it goes down deep. like who are you and what do you want. and you know what are you suited to do. and what. it does seem that like the people who. are most enlightened. that i've ever met or read books by. they ultimately land on humor like they. don't take shit seriously. they embrace the absurdity of it all and.

just kind of laugh i. laugh at it in this kind of simple way. so it does seem that humor. is like one of the fundamental truths of. the scene yes. we're in and somehow it's love. humor humor can be love right people. laughing that that. sound is kind of like carolyn knapp who. wrote a book called drinking a love. story which is a really good. book about not drinking drinking and. then not drinking. and um she said the lat you could.

understand things as love that you i. think one of the last lines in the thing. is like. people talking about their experiences. in life that that could be love like you. know laughter is love like i feel like. love and and finding it wherever you can. find it is. why we're here that's that connection. and laughter can be love and. you know figuring out you know something. that makes life better for a lot of. people can be loved. you know whether it's a vaccine or a a.

technological advancement or whatever. like. you know all of those things i think can. be that feeling and i think that's. what's. important it connects you to a larger. frequency. you know i don't think there's a better. way to end it tim i hope. you're one of the voices i truly believe. that your legacy would be one of the. most important voices of our time. because you're fearless and challenging. all the absurdity of uh the nonsense. that. of our social and political discourse so. i hope you keep doing it.

i'm a fan i'm still a big star struck so. oh stop it listen. i i your job i thought it was your. intellectual capacity. enjoying anything i do only underscores. how truly fucked we are. but thank you very much yeah uh. thank you for talking today thank you. brother thanks for listening to this. conversation with tim dillon. and thank you to our sponsors netsuite. business management software. athletic greens all-in-one nutrition. drink magic spoon low carb cereal.

better help online therapy and rev. specia tech service. so the choice is business health sanity. or transcripts choose wisely my friends. and if you wish click the sponsor links. below to get a discount and to support. this podcast. and now let me leave you some words from. george carlin. scratch any cynic and you will find a. disappointed. idealist thank you for listening and.

hope to see you. next time. you.