Robert Rodriguez: Sin City, Desperado, El Mariachi, Alita, and Filmmaking | Lex Fridman Podcast #465

- I write the script in December, January, Josh Hatrnett, Marley Shelton come down fly Frank in, shooting for 10 hours on my green screen, we shoot that opening sequence. - [Lex] Incredible opening sequence. - And the visual look, we've never seen that, I wanna just take this and make it move. I just want the comic to move. Any other studio would just go make it look like any gritty. crime movie and they would miss the point that it's, the visual is half of it. I want it to look just like this 'cause it would be. the boldest movie anyone's seen. 'cause that's how it reads when I read the book, it's like, if this was moving, it would be the most phenomenal movie.

Just by being around him and working with him, you get, by osmosis, you learn stuff, and it just ups your game because they're just, swing way beyond you. Jim Cameron was like that, so like when I first met him, I was trying to impress the hell out of him, 'cause I was such a big fan. I was about to go do, "Desperados" and I went, hey, I just took a three day steady cam course. because I can't afford steady cam operator, so I'm gonna operate steady cam myself on "Desperados". Now, if he was just my peer, he'd say, oh, I did the same thing, and I'm gonna do the same thing. That would be like hanging out with somebody.

of your ilk, but you don't, you want somebody who's above that. Do you know what he said? He goes, I bought a steady cam, but not to operate it, I'm gonna take it apart and design a better one. It's like us mere mortals trying to learn how to operate. the camera, he's designing all new systems. That's the guy you wanna hang out with. Not someone who's doing what you're doing. We put so much of the world around them. Like when you see the city, we put like a blue screen way in the back to just make. the city keep going, but we built the sets there, the town, we built the real set,

so everything was very tangible and real, and that way she had to fit into that world and be. as real as that because if it was all done. in CG, well then, now, you can fudge everything. But if you put her in a real environment, that's a real challenge. And just like. with our movies, you watch it all fall apart, you watch this thing blow up, you watch this thing not work. Everything just falls apart in front of your face. Then that's when you roll up your sleeves. and creatively figure out a way around it. And by the end, you have a result that's better than what you sought out. Sift through the ashes of your failure and you'll find.

the key to your next successes in there. But if you're not looking for it, you don't find it. - The following is a conversation. with Robert Rodriguez, a legendary filmmaker and creator. of "Sin City," "El Mariachi," ""Desperados"," "Spy Kids,". "Machete," "From Dusk Till Dawn," "Alita: Battle Angel,". "The Faculty," and many more. Robert inspired a generation of independent filmmakers. with his first film, "El Mariachi", that he famously made for just $7,000.

On that film and many since, he was not only. the director, he was also. the writer, producer, cinematographer, editor, visual effects supervisor, sound designer, composer, basically the full stack of filmmaking. He has shown incredible versatility across genres, including action, horror, family films and sci-fi, with some epic collaborations with Quentin Tarantino,

James Cameron, and many. other legendary actors and filmmakers. He has often operated. at the technological cutting edge, pioneering using HD filmmaking, digital backlots, and 3D Tech. And always, through all of that, he's been a champion of independent filmmaking, running his own studio here in Austin, Texas, which, in many ways, is very far away from Hollywood. He's building a new thing now called Brass Knuckle Films, where he's opening up the filmmaking process.

so that fans can be a part of it, as he creates his next four action films. I'll probably go hang out at his film studio a bunch. as this is all coming to life. His work has inspired a very large number. of people, including me, to be more creative in whatever pursuit you take. on in life and have fun doing it. This is the Lex Fridman Podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors. in the description.

And now, dear friends, here's Robert Rodriguez. Has there been a time when there was like one take. and you only have one take to get it right? - Oh, all the time where you're just like, or just you know how long it'll take to reset. and you're just, but then you know what, you gotta just work with what you got. You gotta work with your results. - You get nervous or no in that moment? - Oh yeah, you're nervous going like, just I hope it goes off because then to fix it. I'll have to go do a bunch of other steps.

which we don't have time for. But a lot of times, I've just learned that if something happens, it's just meant to be that way. And I got used to doing things in one take. and just living with it didn't bother me. One movie, even a low-budget movie, they had rigged a car to implode because I was gonna throw. a guy at it. So we needed a car to implode and then. we're gonna throw them and marry it together, right? And the car guy goes, yeah, we're gonna have three cars rigged. Three cars? Why you have to prepare...

In case one doesn't work and then. we have a second one after. We said, we don't have all night. to go shoot take after take. We're doing, just get one car and if it doesn't work, we'll figure it out. And you don't have time to do it again, sometimes, it's such a long setup. So I go, no, I'm good with just going with it. In a "Grindhouse" movie, they only had one take, so that'll make it more authentic. - When it all goes to shit, when it fails, you just, what's the next thought? - So I'll tell you two things happened. on "Dusk till Dawn". First was, okay, you know how those explosions when somebody walks away.

in slow motion from an explosion, that's become kind of, you know, that started with "Desperados". "Desperados" is the first, if you look at all the montages. - [Lex] Yeah, that's right. That's right. That is the meme. - Because it was an accident. It was just supposed to be, it was just two grenades, not a nuclear bomb. It throws them over the side. I just want to like some body parts or, you know, something to fly up, some shrapnel. So I literally said shrapnel. And my effects guy was so ragged, running so ragged. We get to there and I go, do you have any body parts and stuff we can throw up. or something you can shoot up? I didn't realize it's so high to get past that second floor.

He's like, no, I don't. I can give you a fireball. I can give you a nice, you know, fireball with propane, but it burns away really quick. Like how fast? Like that, but it'll be big and orange. Okay, we'll shoot it in slow motion so it lasts. a little longer because it just goes poof. So I told the actors, I know how big this fireball is gonna be, but just walk really fast and just look real determined. and then just keep walking. Don't stop and turn around. because you might get your eyebrows singed. So they take off and poof, it goes, and in slow motion, it looks great, right?

I remember showing it to Jim Cameron before it came out. and his hand went up like, you've never seen that before, you know? Six months later, "Dusk till Dawn" came out. So I liked how much it looked so much. that in "Dusk till Dawn", I did it again. So those movies came out within six months of each other. That's why it turned into a thing because people saw it. And so I thought, how about for the opening of George Clooney. and Quentin walking out of the gas station. that we have the whole place just blowing up. and they just keep talking like it's not happening. You know, like take it another step further.

so I'm not just doing the same thing. Okay, that one is like, okay, you're gonna walk out and it's all in one take. So we're only gonna do one take. We're gonna blow the thing up. We're gonna start with just some smaller explosions. and then when they're further away and it's safer, then we'll do the big fireballs. So we're going and you're nervous because like if one. of them trips up a line and you know the pressure's. on them, it's not just you that's nervous, you're nervous for them. They're the ones who got to walk out, do that whole speech, get in the car and drive away. What if the car doesn't start? What if, you know?

There's a lot of things that could happen. Well, guess what happens? The thing you would not expect, they go in, they come out, they start talking, shoot it, it's perfect, great, we can move on. And the camera guy comes, I don't know what happened, but just like you had a little snafu here, we have an auto focus on the steady cam, you know, we have a focus thing. It just went like this. I felt it go whack all the way out of focus and whack. for a second back, like it just reset itself.

I don't know why it did that, you know, because it's radio controlled and we can't tell. because we're shooting film, you know, so we're like, oh shit, let's watch the dailies, sure enough. Let's see if we can, maybe I can scratch the film right there. No, it goes completely out of focus and back in focus. within a second. Now we got to reshoot it. So we had to wait till we're back in that location. We rigged it for two more takes just in case. So that thing that was supposed to be the one take. is three takes. The other thing that happened was the front. of the "Dusk till Dawn" bar,

that same guy that did those explosions, he packed a bunch of explosives behind the actors. When the actors come running out of the bar at the end. of the movie and there's an explosion. through the door because all the vampires are blowing up, he didn't just... He put like 10 times the amount of stuff. It blew out. You see it in the movie, you see this huge fireball going up, and if you watch closely, you see it already start to catch the whole place on fire. The whole front of that, which is foam, is catching on fire.

And I cut just before you see that it's on fire. That was the first shot at that bar. because we weren't gonna start shooting. the other stuff till night. So the first shot is that and the set's ruined, burned to a crisp. The neon lights blew up, so we couldn't even shoot. Cheech goes, "Well, I guess I'm not doing my speech tonight.". (both laughing). But right away, this is what happens. My first AD, Doug Aarniokoski, comes over to me and I go over to him.

The guys came out with the fire hoses. The fire hoses weren't even adding any water. The thing was just scorching. The whole production design team was in tears. because they had just spent weeks building this thing. and it was up in smoke and charred. I said, let's just keep shooting. Let's just keep shooting because it looks really kind. of cool like this. Yeah, they're gonna have to come repair it. and we'll have to come back. But it's all black and charred. That's why that whole scene with George Clooney. and Cheech and the building's black, we didn't go over there and touch that up.

That's real flame that burned and it ended up looking great. So then the next week when we came back to shoot. that other shot that didn't work, we came back and they had repaired it and we shot all. the night stuff, which is the majority of the stuff. in front of it. So sometimes you gotta roll with it and then, and look at the blessing you get because of this mistake. You probably actually got a better take. by doing it later with them. And then you had this incredible look for the end. of the movie that looked apocalyptic. If it had looked just clean, you would've actually seen that it was kind of a foam set.

This made it look better. So I kind of let the universe push you. where you're supposed to go. - Just roll with it. - You gotta roll with it. because you don't know what the grand plan is. You have your plan. Just know it's probably all gonna fall apart. It's just like the movies, you come up with your plan of what you wanna accomplish. That's like your script. Then you go scout your location and figure out. what your project's gonna be. You know? And you go try to make it as bulletproof as possible. Then you go to do your project and just like. with our movies, you watch it all fall apart. You watch this thing blow up, you watch. this thing not work, everything just falls apart in front of your face.

Then that's when you roll up your sleeves. and creatively figure out a way around it. You turn chicken shit in a chicken salad. and by the end you have a result that's better. than what you sought out. But that's the process and that's life. And that's wash, rinse, repeat the rest of your life. That's what everything's gonna be like. It's just like a movie. Because when you think about it, you're writing a story for a film. and you're also writing the story of your life. at the same time. Like how are you gonna react to things? Well how do you make your character react to things? You make him kind of superhuman.

Why don't you just make yourself that way? You're writing your own story. and you start really seeing, the more you get into storytelling. that life imitates art and art imitates life, but the process is also the same. - So you write the story, the script, and then you have it collide with the chaos of reality. And in that moment when you said you see. the chicken shit, like you have to be able. to keep your eyes open... - You have to do that, you have to do that. - [Lex] Wait a minute, okay. Stuff changed. - It's discipline. - Where's the, not to be cliche about it, but where's the silver lining of this?

Where's the path. to actually make something good out of this? And that's a skill, right? - I call it... And it's one of my favorite stories. I was doing one of these talks and I said, come talk about creativity. I go, I understand, 'cause a lot. of people read my book, "Rebel without a Crew". and told me, oh, it made me be a filmmaker. But a lot of people said, it helped me start my own business because they just see. how you can go be entrepreneurial like that and go. where no one else is going. And I'm giving all this talk about this kind. of positive stuff. And this one woman goes, you're real positive. But what do I tell myself when I just wasted a year. and a half of my life doing something that didn't work?

I was like, that's a real negative way to ask that. Can you just rephrase the question. a little more positively before I even attempt to answer it? 'Cause already her point of view is exactly. what you're saying. She's not looking at all, she's just concentrating on what didn't follow her plan. and not seeing the gift of everything else that's there. So she goes, very reluctantly... It was so perfect. I wish we had filmed it. She goes, I learned a good lesson the hard way. And I said, that still sucks. And I say, when you follow your instinct,

like if you follow your own instinct to go start. a business or go make this movie or... That it wasn't someone saying go over there. and you'll make a million dollars. You know, it was your instinct and you fail, sometimes the only way across the river is to slip. on the first two rocks. You fail. You have to really sift through... It's like the silver lining, but I call it, sift through the ashes of your failure. And you'll find the key to your next successes in there. But if you're not looking for it, you don't find it. I'm gonna tell you one, and I tell 'em the "Four Rooms" story. I said I made a movie called "Four Rooms".

It didn't make any money, right? When Quentin asked me, hey, do you wanna make a movie with me and two other filmmakers? It's an anthology. It's on New Year's Eve, it's in a hotel, you have to use the bellhop. We're not gonna know what each other's making. And we make it and we put it together. My hand went up right away. Just instinctually. That sounds, yeah, I'll do that. I'll go make that with you. Now, should I ask the audience, I like to throw it to the audience and her, should I have not raised my hand that quick? Shouldn't I have done a little studying first?

Or should I just go blind instinct? Or should you do instinct with some studying? Okay, well, I could have gone and studied. and I would've found that anthologies never work. Like even when it's Coppola, Scorsese, Woody Allen, they bomb. 'Cause people can't quite wrap their head around... What is this, Twilight Zone? I don't wanna go see that. But that's not, I still said yeah, I think I should still go by instinct. So my instinct was to raise my hand. We go make that movie, because I love short films. I made like "Bedhead" and short films. and I thought, oh, here's a way, if this works,

I can make short films in anthologies and I can. have the best of both worlds. - And by the way, anthologies is when there's multiple... - More than, multiple one story. - In one movie. - Yeah, one movie. - So if you did the research, you would know that very few people ever got that to work. - Yeah. The audience can't quite wrap their head around it. It feels like the movie starting three times. So I make that movie, it bombs. Now, I could feel real bad about that, but if you really think about it, you go, well, why did I sign up for it? Did I raise my hand because I thought it.

was gonna go be this big financial success? No, I did it to work with my friends. to do something creative, to try something. But that's still not good enough. I need to really sift through the ashes. If I look through the ashes of that failure, I find two keys to my biggest successes in there. While I was on the set, they said it has to be New Year's. So I thought, I'm just gonna do like "Bedhead". I'm gonna have two little kids that are running around. in this room. And we have to use the bellhop as a babysitter. Well, it's New Year's, let's dress everybody in tuxedos. because it's New Year's, they're all gonna go out, but the parents leave without them.

When I saw Antonio and his wife, I thought, wow, they look like a really cool international spy couple. What if they were spies? These two little kids, one of them keeps falling asleep on the set, he's so young. They barely tie their shoes. They don't know parents are spies, they have to go save them. There's five of those movies now, right? The other one was, I really love making short films. I really want this anthology thing to work. What if it's three stories, like a three-act structure, not four. Same director, not four different directors.

I'm gonna try it again. Why on earth would I try it again? Well, because I had already done one and figured out. how I could do it better, and that's Sin City. Those are by far two of my biggest successes. that came directly from that failure. So I always say, follow your instinct. If it doesn't work, just go, sometimes the only way across the river is to slip. on the first two rocks. Where's the key in the ashes of the failure? Because if I had an instinct, that means I was on the right track. I didn't get the result I want. That's because the result might be something way bigger.

that I don't have the vision for and the universe. is pushing me that way. - By the way, a lot of people that look back to "Four Rooms". see a lot of creative genius in there. So you say it flopped... - It flopped financially. - Financially. But there's so many ways to measure... - Totally. But like I said, I would say, well, it was successful because even Roger, who'd said, hey, you furnished my favorite room. I was like, hey, I could take that. But now I think there's something else still there. I keep sifting and it's like, oh yeah, two big successes came from that. It's an amazing lesson.

to have because it makes you feel better about failure. Think of "The Thing" by John Carpenter. He put that movie out the same weekend as "E.T.". "The Thing" bombed. Critics were calling it pornography because of all. the weird special effects and audiences didn't go either. And he thought he made a great movie. So it makes you question your instincts. Well, 10 years later, turns out, oh, it's a classic. So sometimes it takes the audience a while. So if you have some kind of failure on something,

don't let it knock you down. Just go, maybe in 10 years they'll think it's great. I'm just gonna commit to making a body of work. A body of work. Some will succeed, some will overperform, some will underperform. It's not your job. You just wanna be a creative person. Just create... Stop thinking about movie per movie and worrying. so much about each one, or project to project, if you're a business person. Just commit to making a body of work like. an artist would do. You don't know what the masterpieces are gonna be.

or which someone's gonna come and say, oh, that one that bombed, there is some really creative stuff in there. It's not for you to decide. You just go and do it. - Sometimes I think it takes some time. to process the failure to make sense of it. Like, at least for me, don't rush making sense of what didn't work. What lessons do I take from it? How do I sift through the ashes, as you said. It takes time. You have to sleep on it a bunch of nights. - Sometimes it's right there. and then sometimes you come back, revisit it later,

because you may not have had some information you. have now that makes you look at it a lot differently. Like when I did, I just did the audio book for "Rebel without a Crew". - [Lex] Thank you for that, by the way. - I hadn't read it since I wrote it. So I didn't remember a lot of the details. - And you actually, it's voiced by you. - I voiced it. So I was reading it real-time. - Yeah. I highly recommend people because you comment, you add additional comments to it. It's great. - Most of the time I'm laughing. It's like I can't believe how crazy that story is. I forgot a lot of details.

When you're younger, when you're 21, 22, six months feels like six years. I didn't realize how short that window. was until I reread it and how impossible most of that is. But you see some places where a setup falls in my lap, and then pays off immediately in a big way like magic. over and over again. It's clear I don't know what I'm doing. It's clear the universe is just pushing you places. So you can't fight it because I remember. I was really disappointed. It says in the diary, I'm really bummed that I go home that Christmas not. having sold it to the Spanish home video market,

which was my goal. I walked home penniless and I was like, Merry Christmas, I feel like a freaking failure. Good thing I didn't sell it then. With time, you look back and you go, wow. I got an agent the next month. He wasn't gonna help me sell it. He said, if you can get 20,000 for it, take it. I chased those people down for those contracts, Spanish market, for months, and they never answered me back. And then Columbia ended up buying it. for like 10 times as much. and we made, released it and did a sequel.

and did another sequel. If you look back in time, good thing I didn't get my way. My way had this for a vision, and it needed. to do that, which you would never know. You don't know that going through. So just if you don't have the answer right away, or even in 10 years, go, maybe it's coming in 20 years. Don't let anything slow you down. Just keep plowing forward, committing to making your thing happen. Don't get shook up by something that you might not. have an answer for. - Yeah. Every aspect of your journey is super inspiring.

We'll talk about it. Let's go to the beginning. - Sure. - There's a few. technical things that are fascinating about your beginning. So you started making films when you were very young. with an old Super 8 camera, and you were editing on a VCR. - You see, I've met a lot of filmmakers who, you know, they start a certain way, but then they finish another way. They get to be big filmmakers and all that. I still do it that way. Like, I still, I like doing things that way. I have a new company called Brass Knuckle Films. where the audience can actually participate. by investing, being investors in these movies.

that are done the same way. They're action films like we did with "Mariachi", but 10 to 30 million. It doesn't take a lot of money to start. a billion dollar franchise. You know, like John Wick only cost 20 million, the first one. Second one was 40. Third one was 80. Fourth one was 100. because the audience kept growing and growing. - By the way, you say, you know, 20 million, like it's not a lot of money... - [Robert] We should mention for an action film. - Yeah, that's right. But also, we should say that "El Mariachi", the film on which the book "Rebel without a Crew".

is a $7,000 movie. So let's put it all in context. - But you know, you're gonna hire bigger actors. You can get a big actor like Keanu Reeves. for a $20 million movie. You know, I asked Jim Cameron, I said, you know, like "Terminator" cost 5 million. And he goes, "I wish we had that much,". we had less than 5 million for that. So you can start. a billion dollar franchise using these methods. And with the audience investing, they get to make money on them. And that's what I'm gonna say now about how I started. You see that DNA of how I give out, you know,

I want people to know how I did things. with "Rebel Without a Crew". or with these methods that I started with. You see, that's how we kept going. Hollywood spends way too much. And when you can make stuff for less, your profit margin is much better. So when I first started, I didn't have any money. So I still play like I don't have money. So I had Super 8, my dad had a Super 8 camera, but I couldn't afford it. I shot two rolls that you had to get to... You had to buy the film, shoot two minutes. I shot two rolls of that.

It's another same amount of money that it cost. to buy it, whatever that was, 12 bucks or whatever to develop it. You get it. There's no sound. Most of the shit's out of focus, you know? But then my dad who sold cookware had a VCR, one of the first VCRs, home VCRs for the market. that he would play his sales tapes to his salesman. And it came with a camera attached, like this cable you got coming out. Imagine if that had to go into your VCR for you. to even see what it's shooting. And this is old camera, manual focus, manual iris,

and 12-foot cable. And I would start making movies with that. Instead, now I have for $8, I have a two-hour erasable tape of sound and picture. So I got into digital basically really early. I was doing, which was really frowned upon back then. and continued to be all the way to when I was using it. for real in the early 2000s before everyone realized, oh, that's the future. - Yeah, that's fascinating. because you were rebel in that way too using digital. - Well, because of the means. and the democratizing of that...

The elite didn't like that. You could just go make a movie like that. But I started practicing and it's much easier. to practice when it doesn't cost any money. Like if you wanna be a rock star, right? If you wanna learn how to play guitar really well, you're not gonna just jump. on stage and suddenly be able to play. You have to practice till your fingers bleed. Well, the same with movies. You got to keep telling stories. and cutting them together and you just can't afford. that on film. Nobody can with a two minute roll costing as much. as a two-hour tape. So I was doing all these movies. First, I would cut in camera and that old VCR.

had a really great pause button that they stopped making. That when you hit pause, it stopped right there and it stopped with a clean cut. It didn't have all this color bars like the later ones had. So that was my... And it had an audio dump feature. where you could add another second soundtrack to it. So if I have people talking, I could hit audio dub and add sound effects. So I could have two tracks on the same one. So that was my filmmaking kit for a while until I needed. to start doing real editing.

And my dad bought a second VCR for his business. because I stole his other one. And I found that if I hooked them together, I could play on one and use that pause button on the second. And this was the limitation. This is what taught me how to edit in my head. Is that if I shot a bunch of footage, I needed to shoot very little footage so I could find it. Sometimes you shoot out of order. So when I cut it, I have to cut in linear order. because if you push pause, it's a nice clean cut, but it only holds for five minutes. You have five minutes before the machine shuts off.

So you got to find your next shot within five minutes. and do that. Otherwise, if you have to start the machine over, it added all these color bars. and it would be all screwed up. So I'd have to sit there and not move for all day. while I cut, knowing what the next shot was. And once I had it cut, I would then add some sound effects to it. Remember, because I have the audio dub function. But now if I wanna add music, I take that tape, which has two tracks now, into the first deck and put it into the VCR again,

one generation of loss. But I have a little cassette tape player with the music. and I do a Y-splitter so I can add the music and the... Right? Just like that. That's like being resourceful with what you have. I made award winning short films that way on video. There were some festivals. that would allow video, not many, but they would always win. And they were always funny. as I stumbled upon "Spy Kids" that way. Like I wanted to make these action movies in my backyard.

But when you're a teenager, you don't know anybody who can come be your action star. And if you just bring your high school buddies, well, they just look like high school kids. So I used my little brothers and sisters, because I'm one of 10, their oldest. They're just sitting around watching cartoons anyway. And I made them the action stars just to learn. And I found those things would be a winning formula. They'd win every festival I'd send them to. So "Bedhead" was my first time using a film camera. It was a wind-up film camera I got in film school. I went to film school for one semester and realized.

I already knew more than the film students. because they taught you a whole other outdated way. of doing it. So I thought, I'm just gonna use that film camera to make. a low-budget movie, a definitive film version. that I can send to all film festivals. of these action kids, which is a precursor to "Spy Kids". "Bedhead"'s a precursor to "Spy Kids". - And we should say that "Bedhead". was an award-winning short film that was probably. a big sort of leap for you that probably opened the door. to you to then make "El Mariachi" and so on... - It opened up your brain especially.

because those video festivals, I would win a trip to New York and a director's chair. with a video of shorts that I would put in festivals. But I knew if I could get into film festivals, I could send that all over the world. So I made that little short film, sent it, and it was winning all the festivals. And I thought, wow, I made that with a wind-up camera, film camera, filming just one take each shot, just no slates because I'm the editor... And that cost 800 bucks and it was eight minutes.

I bet I can make an 80-minute movie for $8,000. if I'd use the same method. So that movie I did... Six months later, I was making "Mariachi". because it opened up my mind that I could try it. in a feature. - Can we actually pause. on that because I think "Bedhead" has a really great, really unique story, shot in a really unique way. I think what I'm trying to say is it's very important. to write the right script, write the right story...

- Let me tell you the trick to that. And "Mariachi" is the same way. This really helped people. Even Kevin Smith from "Clerks" said, wow, Robert said when "Mariachi" was successful, I talked about how I did it, I said, I looked at everything I had. What do I have? We have a pit bull, we have a turtle, we've got a bus that Carlos' cousin owns. His brother-in-law has a bar and he owns a ranch. So the bad guy lives at the ranch, the fight scene is gonna be in the bar, he's gonna hit a bus at one point,

the girl's gonna have a dog, and a turtle is gonna cross the road. It gives you all this production value, so you write backwards. So for "Bedhead", I even did that with a camera. I'd been shooting video all this time, and one thing I wished I could do on video. and never could was slow motion, or stop motion even. So when I got. that crappy World War II camera they gave us. in film school, I mean, I was so pissed. This is the camera I've been trying to get my hands on? I could have bought this for 50 bucks at a pawn shop. Old Bill and how, wind up, you couldn't even see through the lens. You were seeing through an approximation of the lens.

But you could shoot slow motion, I could do reverse photography if I filmed upside down. I could do... 'Cause if I do a fast push into her, I'll never get the focus in right. So I started with it in focus, went back, pulled backwards on a chair, and then reversed it, flipped it, and now it looks like it stops. on a dime in focus. - The number of times. I've seen you shoot backwards is incredible. Like to achieve a certain feeling, a certain experience, a certain effect, sometimes shooting in reverse plus.

the sound effect layer, you can create this reality that's surreal. that then results in the story that you wanted. Like you have to be functioning in some kind. of different space-time continuum... - You start putting it together, right? So I've got this different camera. Well, now I go like, I don't wanna shoot the same kind of movie if I got. a camera now that can do that. I can do stop motion. So that's why there's an animated title sequence.

at the beginning is I go, wow, I'm a cartoonist. If I set the camera up here, I can slow it down enough... It's not a frame by frame, but if I get it down like two frames a second, I can just tap it and it'll maybe get one frame off. So I did 300 drawings by hand. for that opening title sequence. - [Lex] Holy shit. That was you doing it by hand? - Yeah. So you watch. that and this is a throwaway title sequence, but I really want this thing to win awards... - Okay, one second, how long did that take to draw that?

That's a lot of work. - I drew it over, I was a daily cartoonist by then, so I was pretty fast, but still, that's why it's only penciled, it's not inked, but it looks great. I mean, it's the cameras going around and all kinds. of crazy stuff, but it's just all faked by paper. It took me all night to shoot it. Because I remember I walked into the film school. the next day, you know, like all sleepy. And I told one of the fellow students, you know, wow, I was up all night doing this animated title sequence. And he went, "Why are you putting so much work in this? They're not gonna grade you any differently.".

And I was like, grades? I get an A walking in here! I'm trying to get out of this town. I'm not doing this for fucking grades. I want people to see what I can do now. And I wanna see what I can do now with this. So a lot of the story came from the limitations. or actually the freedoms of that camera. I couldn't have done that story on video. So when I saw, wow, okay, I can do reverse photography... I can do stop motion... She has to have special powers, because if she has special powers, then I can utilize,

I can really milk this camera for all I can get. There's one of my shots I love the most. is where she's standing there and the chair, she makes a chair come all the way up to her. and it goes all the way up to her face. Now, if I did it normally, where would I even put the strings for that? - [Lex] Right, to pull the chair, yeah. - So I start here with the camera upside down. I have the strings in the back. 'Cause you're not gonna be looking at the back. And as it goes back, you pull it back. And then when you reverse it, it goes...

And it looks so good. You can't spot this. If you look close, you see the strings are in the back, but your eyes... So I did stuff like that. And then just her like getting the hose. And then I just do stop motion. for the hose turning on, the faucet. That's why I gave her special powers so that... And it made the story better. So sometimes the limitations you have with equipment. or location, you can use it to make, take chicken shit, turn it into chicken salad, take this camera that everyone was like, what's this? And I go, I can do so much with this.

But I tell you today, I look at that camera... I can't believe I ever made a movie with that thing. It's so ridiculously primitive. I'm like, how did I even think. I could get anything done with this? And it even exposed... And "Mariachi" is the same way. You have to think about it. I shot "Mariachi" on film with a borrowed. 16 millimeter camera, I didn't know how to use it, I called up a place. in Dallas that rented that kind of equipment and I said, I have an Arri 16S here, two motor looking things. One has a 24 and one has a bunch of numbers.

Oh, that's a variable speed motor. That means you can do different speed. I can shoot slow motion with this? Oh wow. Do you have a torque motor? I don't know. What is that? Is there something on the side of the magazine? Like it, does it.... Yeah. Now you can just look up on YouTube and it shows you. how to use it. I was doing it by phone that way. And then I went and shot the movie right then. And I didn't know if any of it was exposing. or if the film camera was working until I finished. the whole movie. So imagine you have to go down to Mexico, shoot for two weeks, come back, send it off to the lab...

You wanna talk about being nervous. Just hoping something exposed... And when I saw it come back and the tape, they transferred it to a tape so that I could edit it. Deck to deck again. I was so relieved. Some things didn't come out, but I can cut around that. It's like, oh yeah, cause I'm doing everything. Like right here, you're doing everything. Imagine if you forgot to stop down and it's open all. the way and one shot is blown out. I'd have stuff like that because I'm moving fast. and I'm doing it on my stuff. - Wait a minute.

You shot "El Mariachi", the whole thing, without knowing if some of the footage is damaged, wrong? - Without any of it. That's why I only did one take. So my idea was this. - How gangster is that? Wow. - Well, it was a test film. - Right. Right. - I thought it was gonna be a test film. - [Lex] Yeah. - It's the only movie in history ever made. where the filmmaker did not think anyone would see it. and expect it and even set it up that way. I mean, why would I make an action movie. for the Spanish market called basically "The Guitar Player".

Promises no action. No one's gonna watch it. But I thought if someone actually picks it up. and has the balls to watch this thing, they're gonna be surprised I put a lot of action. It was just to learn from, I just needed to make it for as little as possible, see how much I could sell it for. Right? If I could double my money, great. I can make another one and just get more practice. It was just, I was so intrigued by this idea. because you've heard advice about screenwriting. I heard advice back then that I thought was ridiculous. It said, it's gonna take you a long time to be. a good screenwriter. So write three scripts and throw them away.

The fourth script will be the good one. I think, it's so hard to write a script. Who's gonna write three full. scripts knowing they throw them away? Wouldn't it be better if you write three scripts. and then shoot each one and be the camera man, be the sound guy, be everything... Because that way you're learning, not just writing, you're learning how to make a movie. So that was my idea. I'm gonna make three of these, hide it on Spanish video, but make money back. That's like my own film school, paying me, paying me to learn. So the first one I thought, let me just shoot it one take each.

because my friend Carlos lives in Mexico. If we shoot two takes, most of the cost is to film, I've just doubled my budget. So let me just shoot one take. Some of it's gonna not come out, but I'm not gonna know what. I'm not gonna shoot a safety one. That doubles my, let me see, some things might come out. I expected like 70% of it to maybe be okay, but 30% I might have to come reshoot, which is fine. I just drive back there and then. I just reshoot just those shots. Right? So I just went, let's shoot. We stop, we come back.

Then I send it off to develop. Because we're shooting two weeks consecutively... To get film shipped back and forth from Mexico to see. if it came out... You just couldn't do it. I just had to double down on it, do it. One take every... I remember one time I was telling the actor, man, I told you to run through that shot and you go... Oh, let me do it. No, one take, dude! Just think about next time. Do what I say! I didn't think anyone was gonna see it. So you, and because you don't think anyone's gonna see it, you end up doing something remarkable, which is, well, I'm just gonna make something for myself. 'Cause if I was making a movie that was gonna go.

to Sundance, I wouldn't have made that movie. I would have thought, okay, I got to get serious. But because I made this movie. that was just entertaining myself like "Bedhead", it entertained audiences. So that naivete is really important. when you're starting out or at any point in your life, be naive about what things gonna... And just do something for yourself. That taught me a very valuable lesson. because I didn't want anybody to see it. I just thought one take, one take. When I got back home, a bunch of stuff didn't come out, but I'm like, I'm not going back to Mexico.

I'll figure out a way to edit around it and make. the movie shorter. And that's just gonna be the movie. And then that's the one that went and won Sundance. - That was your first feature film. That's the one you made for $7,000. You mentioned your friend Carlos as the star. of the movie, everything, one take... And I highly recommend people go back and watch that movie. It's just an incredible movie. It's fun. And it's an action film, moves really fast. The story is really interesting. The script is really interesting. All the actors, you could tell,

they all stepped up and played their own... - They weren't actors. They were just friends of ours, which is why... And because... And this was the magic of not having a crew. They didn't feel like they were making a movie. It's like this, and we're just here... Me with my one camera. In fact, the gal, Carlos said, this one girl, I forgot she's in town. Maybe she would work. 'Cause we tried to get a soap star and she backed out. So we got this gal over and she goes,

"I don't know how to act.". And I said, here, let's watch. I wanna show you something on Mexican TV. A telenovela was on and you see someone, "eh," you know, all over acting. I said, that's acting. I don't want you to do that. I want you to just talk like you're... - No, wait, wait, wait. That, the love interest, the woman in that, that's what you're talking about? That's what you're talking about? She's amazing. - She's amazing. Because I got a video of her. I said, I want you to just do this one line, pretend like you're just talking to your boyfriend. And I showed her, I showed her the video. That was cool. 'Cause I couldn't show her the film.

because we have to develop it. But I showed her a video test of herself doing it. And she saw herself doing it. She suddenly had the confidence. We went through her closet, this red dress, you can wear that... Everyone just brought their own clothes. - She really had like a sexuality, attention, like a romantic tension that was real. It was in part a great love story that, I mean, as ridiculous as it is to say. - [Robert] Yeah. - And like a dramatic love story. - Yeah. The idea was that, you know, I thought a guitar player... You know, really usually what I wanna do. was like "Road Warrior".

I said, I want a guy with a guitar case. for the weapons going from town. to town like "Road Warrior", but I don't have enough money for the first one to do that. That'll be the second movie I do. How about we do a genesis story, how he became that guy. So let's do "Mad Max", basically, how he becomes that guy. So maybe he is a guitar player. So that you start writing it out. I'm gonna show you my writing method. I write on index cards and I carry one of these, a little packet of index cards. I keep one always in my bag and I smile. when I run across it. 'Cause I go, I've made a million dollars.

with these before, you know? It's like, this is the key to your next success cards. 'Cause you know, when you go see a therapist, you're not going to them for the answers. You're going to them for the questions. You got the answers inside, but you don't have the questions. A lot of times we ask ourselves very unempowering questions. Like, why am I such a loser? You know, I can think of 10 answers right now, but if you go, what three things can I do today. that will not just change my life, but everyone around me? Take steps to that.

Take out your cards and start writing them down. You won't come up with three. You'll come up with 15. I'm like, wow. Because you're asking yourself... And you'll see him. So when I was doing that movie, I thought, okay, he's a guitar player, for real. And he gets mixed up with a guy with a case. So how about he walks into a bar, so I write down that he walks into a bar, bar, trying to get work. Bartender looks at him. We don't hire mariachis, get the hell out of here. So he leaves.

After that whole scene explaining. who he is and what his story is, then the shooter comes. in with a guitar case full of weapons. He's also dressed in black and he shoots the place up. Now, if that was a short film, that's how you'd start a short film. But this is a feature movie. So shit, I gotta figure out how to tell a feature. I'm gonna need a few more cards before that. So I'm gonna need... Well, who's this bad guy? How about he's in jail? I'd read a story... It's a crazy story about a guy who was in jail. in Mexico, and he was running his drug business. from the jail as protection.

He could walk out at any time, but it was to have the cops be his enforcers, basically. So introduce that guy. He's in jail making phone calls, and someone puts a hit on him. So we have action right away. There's a hit on him. He kills those guys because it's his operation. He's not in jail. All the cops are working for him. And he tells that guy on the phone, the main bad guy, I'm gonna come to town, I'm gonna kill all your guys, and I'm gonna come kill you. So then he gets in his truck, and you see them bring him a guitar case full of weapons.

He passes the mariachi on the way to town, and now it's his story. The baton gets turned to mariachi. Mariachi is doing a voiceover. It's easy to shoot. We can use the voice later. We don't have to sing sound. There was even a scene when he walks into town. where we saw these coconuts, a guy cutting coconuts. And we go, oh, let's go film over there. So we filmed the guy giving him a coconut with a straw. in it, and he walks out. I'm like, shit, man, you forgot to pay the guy. Well, let's shoot that. No, it's one take.

I'll just put in the voiceover. that they give away free coconuts in this town. And for years, people in other countries would go, they really give away free coconuts? No, it's because we forgot to show in pain, you know, little happy accidents. So now look, you're already building a movie. So it's like, now he goes in the bar. Now he's mixed up, and the bad guy says, find the guy with a guitar case full of weapons. Then he goes and meets the girl. So you just start, your movie... Visually, you can start seeing your movie. And I've used this for business things, I've used this for ideas, for manifesting stuff.

- It's brilliant. Are you doing this alone usually? Or are you brainstorming? - Yeah, it's coming, and it comes so fast. It's like free association. Well, maybe I have the ending. Oh, I know I want his hand shot. He's gonna get his hand shot because he's a musician, and those ballads are always really tragic. So the girl has to die. The girl has to die because if it's gonna be. a tragic song for his songbook, each movie should be like a tragedy. That's gonna be over here. Now you got the ending, and then your brain starts filling in the rest.

because you're asking yourself these prompt questions. that you already have answers for, from a past life, from a vision you had that you don't even know were there... This prompts it. - It's kind of a puzzle that you're figuring out. What happens if you get stuck? This doesn't make sense. Like some aspect of the structure doesn't make sense. You throw out parts? - You leave all there, you won't, yeah. You just start writing in the ones you do know. Like, okay, I know at some point she's gonna betray him. or he's gonna think she does. She betrays him. Okay, that's in the middle somewhere.

The other ones will come. - Yeah, those are all like crossroads. for the story, doesn't that... How do you know she has to die? Can you change your mind about that? - I can, yeah. But for now, I felt like, if I really would... The story's telling me now what it is. I didn't know I was gonna make a genesis story. I wanted to do the Road Warrior guy, but the Road Warrior, he lost his family. So, really, to propel him to become a guy. who has a guitar case full of weapons, he has to lose everything. He needs a ghost. So this is a genesis story of a character.

Well, look, Bruce Wayne lost his parents. You could say, well, does the parents have to die? Well, no, but it's not gonna propel him, like... It's not gonna drive him like that thing. So it's just coming to me. So this is my other trick, and this is the main thing you got to learn about. If you take any way, this isn't me doing it. I totally believe. that because when you start doing this, you go, where are these answers coming from? I'm asking the right question, but how come the answers just keep coming like this?

I believe because I do so many different jobs, I've learned this over the years... When, it was in 2002, I was like, how is it that I'm the production designer, the composer, which I don't even know how to read. or write music, and I'm writing orchestral score, and I'm doing the editing, and I'm doing the cinematography... I haven't been trained for any of these. I never went to school for these specifically. Must be something about creativity. So I went on Amazon. It's 2002. I look up creative books.

Anything that has creativity in the title, I just ordered it. And I've got a bunch of books on creativity, and I was reading them through... One of them was really speaking to me, yeah, that's it. That's the process. Then it says gels and mediums, and I'm like, oh, this is a book specifically about painting. But it applies to music, editing, cinematography, writing... It's all the same. So that's when I realized that creativity is 90%. of any of those jobs.

The technical part of setting up the cameras, of writing a script in format or reading. or writing music, that's 10% of that. How many musicians don't read or write music, and they're fantastic? It's because 90% of what they do is creative. Now, I believe that that same person, even if they only do music, could literally jump from job to job creatively and do. a superior job than most technicians. - And there's also something to say there. about learning the technical aspects of an art.

You collide with the experts. What happens is, I've experienced this a lot. with using cameras and so on. I don't know shit about cameras. That you roll in, and then there's all the experts almost talking down. to you and telling you how things are supposed to be. Everything is wrong... I talked to somebody about soundproofing a room, and they said, gave me prices. They're insane. And like the amount of effort is insane. And the geometry, the dynamics of this room are all wrong.

I'm like, why can't I just fucking hang up some curtains? It seems like that kills most of the echo. I don't understand. They're like, no, this is all wrong. The corners are gonna have some... I'm like, fuck it. I'm just gonna try. I'm gonna see what it sounds like, A and B. Here's audio with curtains. Here's audio without curtains. It seems like this is fine. Let's move on to the next thing. I think that when you say creativity, some of that is being a rebel, like not listening to the experts.

- Yeah. You're going on your creativity, which is what is that? It's like... Do you consider yourself a creative person? I think you play guitar. - Yeah, guitar, piano. Yeah. - You play piano? But would you call yourself a creative person? - Yeah, I think so. - Good. - I think that's a positive. - I would just suggest to anybody is just own it. Own it and just say, like, when I do. so many different jobs, it sounds crazy when they would introduce me. Hey, Robert, he does. this blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I get tired just hearing that list. But when I think about it, there's really only one thing I do,

and I live a creative life. When you live a creative life, anything that has to do with creativity, whether it's filming, piano, guitar, sculpting, you can do it. You can take it on and do it. because it teaches you more about your main job. I become a better director by doing all those jobs. because when somebody just does one job, they barely know that job. You have to do more to learn about creativity. And this is the main thing I learned. was that I'm writing music for an orchestra. I'm like, I don't even know what I'm doing. Why is that coming out? I don't feel like I'm doing it.

I feel like I picked up the pen. I feel like I had the idea to do the cards. But then when everything just starts coming out. so quickly, that's how fast I wrote that movie. I really feel like something else has taken over. So this is what my belief is. And I hear it in different realms. Like you ask Keith Richards, how do you come up with these riffs? He goes, I don't, I don't... They're floating around the sky, and I pull them out first. You know, I ask Jimmie Vaughan, how do you play guitar? You did those solos. He goes, it's like a radio. Once you get a tune just right,

you can't even believe what's coming through. So I believe, I call it the creative spirit. There's a spirit assigned to all of us that's creative. that doesn't have hands. It needs you to pick up the pen, pull out the cards. And then when you start getting in the flow. and you're like, whoa, it's writing... That's that! And if you can have that mindset, you take your ego out of it and go, all I need to do is be a good conduit for this thing, be a good pipe, and it's gonna come through. So you don't ever have to get hung up. on that question you had. Well, what happens when you can't come up?

It wasn't me to begin with. If it's not coming out, it's because I'm blocking it. And if I were to do this and I'm flowing, and if I were to say, wow, I just wrote 10 cards. I don't know if I can write more. How did I do that? You just shut the pipe because your ego got in the way. You just clogged it because it gets pissed off. that you think it's you. It's not you. It's like, dude, just open up, let me through, pick up the fucking pen... And I learned this when I was 19. when I had a daily cartoon strip.

I had to draw a comic strip every day to get paid. And I would be like, I have to draw like one drawing, draw another drawing. And then it's like, okay, these kind of go together. It was a process. You know? And sometimes I just felt like I wish. I could just envision it, sit back... I'm gonna try that method. I went home and I would sit back and just try to get. in my sofa, try the sofa method. I'm just gonna try to picture the comic strip. And as soon as I got on that thing, it's funny, then I'll just go draw that, right? It doesn't be done in a half hour. Why waste three hours? I'd say I sit there and sit there and sit there.

My deadline will be coming up. Got like 30 minutes. I'm like, oh shit. Got to go sit and draw it out. And it's like, oh, okay. I got this drawing. Oh, this kind of goes with that. If I make another drawing, I have my strip. That's the only way to do it. If you don't get up, the creative spirit ain't gonna come visit you. if you're doing this. It needs your hands. And it's not gonna reward you. for sitting there waiting for it. You have to jump in and do it. And people, when they say, oh, well, I'm not ready. How pissed off is that spirit now? It's waiting for you to feel like you're ready.

It's not you. Just start doing the action and it's gonna come through. And the ideas will come and the answers will come. because it's not you. And if you can take your ego out of it, you'll be blessed with this never-ending flow. of ideas because don't take ownership for it and know. that if it's not coming out, it's because you're just clogging it. because this thing's got endless ideas. - And you give that same advice. for making films, which is don't plan, if you wanna be a filmmaker, don't plan the movie, don't think about making the movie. Just go in and start.

- Yeah, I would meet a lot of people. who introduce themselves as aspiring. I'm an aspiring filmmaker and I wonder. what would you tell an aspiring filmmaker? I'd say, stop aspiring. Because if you call yourself that, you are that. And you're always gonna feel like you're not ready. And you just jump in before you're ready. You don't feel like you're ready till... I didn't feel like I was ready to do "Mariachi" till. I was probably in my last few days of filming. You became ready as you went. You didn't know all that stuff. I couldn't have figured all that out in advance. When my kids worked with me on a project. that we did similar, by the end they realized,

they did an interview with my son. who after just two weeks of doing one. of those projects, you're a different person. He's suddenly waxing philosophical. about the creative processing, going, I never knew. how my dad did "Mariachi" until we did. this project together. And I realized he didn't know either. He didn't know how he was gonna do it. He figured it out day by day. And every challenge that got thrown at him, he had to figure it out. And that's the biggest lesson. Most people never start. And that's the biggest thing. Don't wait till you're ready or that'll be. on your tombstone. Here lies so-and-so. He was never ready.

And you don't wanna be that guy. Jump in. Know it's not you. You just got to be the hands. And that relieves a lot of pressure from you. because then you don't have to ever. have to do anything, really. You just have to be the hands. - So can you talk to some of the hats, some of the many hats you wore with the "El Mariachi"? That's an interesting case study and you've done. the same thing. over and over in completely different innovative ways. in all the films. But "El Mariachi" is such a radical leap for you. - That was crazy. That thing's held together with scotch tape.

and rubber bands because of the camera I borrowed. - You directed, you did cinematography, you did the sound... - It's better to just say what I didn't do. I didn't act in front of the camera. Everything else I did. Everything else, I was the whole crew. It's just like you're doing here, except you've got sound recording right. onto the cameras, right? Or do you have it to system? - Separately, but it's synced. I mean, all the modern technology... - I didn't have sync camera. So I had a camera that... - Yep.

- It was not a sync camera. And the thing was, it was so loud, I would have had to blimp the shit out of it. if I didn't have a blimp. And then I would have needed a sound guy. - Just to be clear, so if people don't understand this, you're shooting basically no sound. - Because the camera sounds like this. (imitates camera). It's like, it sounds like all your money. is going away, first of all. So I would go like this. Action. You'd start running. - Yeah. - And I shoot my edit.

Cut. You know, they're still running. You know, like, I'm only using this part. When there's no slates, there's no, there's guys holding up their fingers at the beginning. of rolling, this is real seven, for just a few frames. I know which reel it is. And then the 10 minutes of film. is just one shot after another. And I use almost every frame of those shots. because I was cutting in the camera. Now, after I shoot, like, let's say, you know, tell me your name. - Lex. - What's your last name? - Fridman. - Where do you live? - Austin, Texas.

- I would do the whole scene. Now I get the sound, bring the mic in close like that. Say it again. - Lex, Fridman, Austin, Texas. - That'll probably sync. Now, if you were going on and on, there's a place where it'd go out of sync. I hate rubbery lips. So I would cut away to the dog or to the knife. or to the girl. And then I cut back when you're back in sync. And since these were non-actors, they say everything the same way each time. They'd say their line, just like they weren't, they weren't performing it to where they didn't remember.

how they performed it before. They were just talking in their own rhythm. So a lot of the times it's the... Anytime you see anyone on camera talking, they're in sync with themselves. And as soon as it cuts away, they're out of sync. And it created this really fast cutting style. that I probably wouldn't have had on such. a low budget movie, but it was the only way to keep things in sync. So when I would shoot two people talking, I would make sure I'd film a couple of shots of like. the dog or a stuffed cat or something, just so I'd have something to cut away to, to get them back in sync. - That's so brilliant. - I call that... It's just resourceful. It's just being very resourceful.

- You allow it to get maybe a little bit out. of sync sometimes? - I didn't allow it, but, oh yeah, I would let it if I just didn't have a way to cut away. And I would try to sync it as best I could. - We as the audience, like, do you understand where the threshold. is where we notice something? - Yeah. - It seems like you can get away with a lot. - You can get away with, I just don't, I'm just particular about that. I just don't like seeing a dub movie. where it just feels canned. It makes you not believe in it anymore. So I just cut away where the lips are just way off.

I just didn't want any of that. I just felt like, I wanted it to just be believable. And they could be really believable if they're in sync, but I didn't shoot two takes of film or even two takes. of audio, but just one take, we just went to the end. What's cool is that because I just had them go. through the whole scene again, so I would go ahead and record them like grabbing. the bottle or any action they did, opening the suitcase... I have all the sound effects too. I just have to sync it by hand. That's a lot of work for me, but I got great sound that way. Because if I had had a sync camera,

the mic would have been so far, we wouldn't have, we would have had to go get new sound effects, but because the camera's off, I could record everything close up. So there was some blessing to that. - You and Quentin Tarantino. had a great conversation about a lot of topics, but one of them is how to bring out the best in the actors. Like what in that "El Mariachi", how do you bring out the best in these non-actors? Then maybe what's the thread that connects. to your future work too? - What really helped for those non-actors.

was that they just look across and it's me filming. They didn't feel like... So they were being so natural. The guy who played the bad guy, I met him in the research hospital. where I was sold my body to science. He was my bunk mate. I said, dude, you look kind of like Rutger Hauer. Then it's like we saw another movie. Man, you look like James Spader. Shit, you should be the bad guy in my movie. It'd be cool to have you as the bad guy. He goes, but I don't speak Spanish. Well, that's okay. I'll teach you phonetically. You're gonna wear sunglasses. And if you look close, he's holding the lines here and he's looking. at the lines like that and just smiling.

So, I can't believe he's getting away with this. He's smiling and he's got the sunglasses on. - I read that somewhere in the pool... There's like a scene in the pool. - In the pool, he's like this. - [Lex] With the sunglasses on with an, oh man. Yeah. - But he was doing it phonetically. And I tell you what, he was so great, that guy, right? When we do "Desperados", I brought him back. Didn't even have to do any dialogue. Watch that movie. When he shows up in the opening scene, when "Desperados", he's playing the guitar. in the opening with the credits to tie it. into the first movie, he shows up again.

And all he has to do is light a cigarette and you see this. 'Cause he's so nervous because now there's a crew behind me. Now it's real. Before, it was just me and him and it didn't feel like. a real movie. So everyone gave a great performance. So how do you recreate that later on a big movie? It's just building a rapport, a safe zone for your actors. Quentin once told me, sometimes being, we're talking about directing, sometimes being a great director is just being. a great audience. You know? Being a great audience for them. because you're taking the place.

of the audience for the actor. They try something. If you're enjoying it, they know that the audience is gonna enjoy it or if you, you know, it makes you cry. You know? So sometimes you don't have to tell them a lot sometimes. And if you do have something very specific. to tell them, they usually go with it. But I always just like to see what they do. A lot of times they just. are in the zone because, again, they're getting that flow too. You create the right environment, everyone's getting this inspiration. that's all tied together that you never could have directed. It's just like you just create that space.

where we're all gonna be open to it and it's gonna drop. in our lap, I'm gonna point it out when it does. because you may not feel like you know how to play. this role yet, but I say not knowing is the other half. of the battle and the more important part. That's the part we're gonna discover. And when it happens, I'm gonna point it out and it's gonna be like magic. and we're just gonna go, okay, we're accepting it and we do it. And it gets people in that kind of headspace and then. we're all open to it, to where the character is supposed to go, what it's supposed to sound like instead. of me being very manipulative to get a certain thing.

I don't know. It's just whenever it feels good. - Yeah, there's such. an intimate connection between the actor and the director. I've seen some of the behind-the-scenes footage with you. You are just a fan enjoying the scene when it's done well. But I think there's an aspect if I were to put myself. in the headspace of the actor, they want you as the audience to earn that happiness. You know? Because when a director approves... - Yeah, when you're a performer. and there's no other, it's not like a live show where you get the approval. of the audience and you're like, oh, well, they like that joke, can we do more of it? Really, the director is it.

And a lot of times the director is way behind. a monitor somewhere. That's why I still like to operate the camera. So when I'm operating the camera, it's like this. We can have 100 people here. We wouldn't know because they go away. It's just us. They just disappear when it's the camera guy. is the director. And we're going, let's do that again. Say that again. There's a shot in, I'm lighting "Sin City". and myself, by my crew setting lights. And I have this great shot of Clive Owen. where he's holding down Benicio's head in the toilet. You know, Benicio's not there. It's the closeup of him at this point. And I'm practicing my shot.

I'm zooming in slow in his face. And people are still walking behind him. on the green screen setting lights. And I'm like, I'm rolling. We're ready to go. We're getting this. I can already tell we're already in the moment. What you're doing right now, just keep holding that look. Now, one jolt like he's starting to fight back, but you don't even flinch. Cut. Okay. Never mind. You guys can stop moving that shit. We already got a shot. - Holy shit... - It's like that. - Wow! - [Robert] Yeah, it's like that because you're so lucky. - That's a great scene, by the way. - [Robert] Great, right? And you can feel it. - Holy shit. - If I wait for these guys, this moment will be gone. And then another one was Mickey Rourke.

He had so much freaking dialogue. He had just done this whole big dialogue scene. He had another one. I said, let's go ahead and start with a wide shot, where the two actors, if I'm the camera, Mickey and Elijah are here. Let's get a two shot and we'll come around. on Mickey close up. We'll turn Mickey around for the close up. Let's start with the wide thing. Get used to the lines. And most of it's gonna be sold in a close up. We sit down. Mickey starts delivering The Take. I'm like, hold on, hold on a second. I brought my camera over. Zoom in. Just adjust that light real quick because I'm the DP.

Because if I had another director of photography, they're like, oh no, no, we have to relight and all this stuff. It's like, no, no, let's just do this. Let's go. He's doing it right now. And I go and that performance is just right then. And so you can feel that when you're, also you're operating and you're the camera guy. and you're the DP. It's like high tech guerrilla filmmaking. Yeah, we're on a green screen, but it's like all the crew needs are marching orders. Just put a light back there, hitting them harder. Like this is a 5K, make that a 10K. It's got to be stronger.

They don't need to know that I'm gonna make. that a lamppost later. They just need marching orders for the moment. So I can just kind of tell people do this, do this, do that. And then I know what I can accomplish with the actor. and then everything else falls into place later. because I'm gonna put all that in later. You know, things, once you know how to do a lot. of jobs like that, you can just move at the speed of thought, which is where the actors love being creatively. Because nobody knew what green screen was back then. They're like, what is this again? So I explained it as, well, it's kind. of like doing theater, but instead of a black curtain behind you with a prop,

it'll be a green curtain. And you might just have a cup or just a steering wheel, but it's just you and the other actors, just like this, and everything else will be painted in later. We're just talking, we're locked in. If we stay locked in, we'll look great when there's rain coming down. and we're on a ship later. But it comes down to this, right? And the more... It was so fun to do those kinds of movies. - To this day, you try to be close. to the action, connected with the actor... - Because it's like a dance. - That's so good to hear. - I remember on "Dusk till Dawn", Michael Parks.

in the opening scene, he's talking about the two guys. that are running around killing people just before. he gets shot. And I just start doing this slow zoom. I remember, it was take eight, start doing this slow zoom on him. And I'm like, I hope I get all the way up. to where it stops zooming when he finishes. that speech, because there's no set way, and I don't know how he's gonna say it, but you're just locked almost telepathically. and has these delivery. There's no edits. He's just going, yeah, they killed four Rangers.

Two hostages. It's just like, wow. And you're just so pulled in. I'm just like, oh my God. And then it stopped. It's like I ran out. of zoom right as he finished that speech. - So how can a director, because there's a lot of great directors that stay. in the back of the battlefield. - They just trust that whatever they get. from their crew, they just accept it. Just like you would get a take-. - There's so much intimacy to that connection. - I like that intimate connection. because I could not be behind a monitor. Even if I had communication with my cameraman, okay,

now start zooming in... You're not gonna know. You have to feel it. You have to be in there. It's like a dance. It's like trying to do a dance with a partner. and you're across the room. It's like, no, you got to be there up close, feeling the energy. And it's the creative spirits whispering to your both. It's not your own idea. It's you're capturing a moment that's magic. And there's true magic that happens on a set. And that's what brings you back. Because you know, I didn't direct that. And they didn't act that. That came through us and we just had the cameras rolling. and we captured a ghost.

(laughs) Just like... - Just like you said, you had the pen in hand and you were there. - It's like that. It's crazy. It's crazy. - All right. Your friendship with Tarantino is just fascinating. And just the whole timeline of the history of movies. and the two of you collided and met is just. a fascinating part of the story. You first met him in 1992 at the Toronto Film Festival. Can you just talk about meeting Tarantino? - We both had films. at the same time, first films, guys in black, action, violence.

In fact, I had seen his movie already. My first film festival was a few months before that, the Telluride Film Festival. "Reservoir Dogs" was there, but Quentin couldn't be there. He was at Sundance earlier that year. And the guy who became my agent, he saw it. and said, "Hey, you're gonna like this guy, Quentin Tarantino. I told him about you. You're gonna meet him. He's gonna be in Toronto.". Oh, cool, cool. Okay. And so I went ahead and saw his movie at Telluride. And I was like, holy shit, guys in black again, just like the "Mariachi", dressed in black and action. I said, oh, we're gonna like each other. He's gonna like me when he sees me. So then in Toronto, we met and we met first on it,

because I knew I was gonna be doing. a panel discussion with him. They asked us to do a panel discussion about violence. in movies in the '90s, even though it was only '92. (laughs) So we're on a panel together. And that's where I met him. And he's like, "Hey, Robert, your agent told me about you.". And I was like, yeah, I saw your movie "Reservoir Dogs". And he goes, "Oh, you got to come to my screen and I'm gonna come see yours.". So he came to "Mariachi" and I videotaped. the audience reactions because they were insane, insane reactions to it. But I have the first screening he saw.

of "Mariachi" sitting next to me laughing... He's laughing at everything. He was just the best audience. I have his recording of the first time he saw "Mariachi". - Oh, no, really? - Yeah, because I taped it all. He's so loud because he's right next to me. - Well, just like you, but even probably more than you. He's a fan. He watches. He just loves movies. - He loves movies. In fact, the next time I heard him laugh that way. was at his own premiere for "Kill Bill". We're watching "Kill Bill" and he's laughing like. it's somebody else's movie!

He still enjoys the movies. So he loves what all the actors did. And it's like that's the kind of energy you really love. But I tell you what, what happened. I'm not a... Very shy person, very shy. I'd have to go talk. I'm sure you probably feel like you're not an orator. or anything, you know, just have to go do it. I thought, well, man, I'm gonna have to introduce my film and talk. about it afterwards. I'm afraid of that. What am I gonna do? I don't remember talking in front of more. than five people before. So I went to see this other movie and it was good. and I was watching...

And then the director comes up at the end. and goes, yeah, well, that was my movie. And, you know, here's the writer. And it's like, I don't like the movie anymore. He's kind of a dick. So I cannot do that. I'm gonna have to go be who they imagine made that movie. So I wrote out my whole intro. It was like a 20 minute intro, because no one had ever heard of anybody making a movie. for no money, much less without a crew, much less... You know, the way I did it was just very new.

Nobody knew it was possible. So my whole intro is like, you'll see the Columbia logo slapped in front, it's probably cost more than the whole movie... And then I go through this is how I made it. with a wheelchair for a dolly, a turtle. You know, I rode around things I had. I mentioned the turtle, the pit bull, the bus, the ranch, all that stuff. Right? So then when they see the movie, in fact, I think my wife was in the audience, she said, at Sundance, people are laughing so much at your intro. They just wanted to hear a story like this so badly. I heard someone next to me say,

I'm gonna vote for his movie. They hadn't even seen the movie yet, just because the story was so good. They wanted that movie to be great. And when they see the turtle, big cheers. When they see the pit bull, big cheers. When they see the school bus, cheers. But then when they see how we use it, he slams into it and falls in it. They fucking lose their minds because they know. how I put it together. They know that the rubber bands and the popsicle sticks, I already set it up. And so that's why that audience, I just taped the reaction. They're so with it. The context is so key.

Like you can watch "Mariachi" and go, hey, this looks like a 7,000-dollar movie. But if you know the story behind it, suddenly... I was curious. I hadn't seen it in a long time. I was watching it for the 20th anniversary, we did a screening, and the first few shots come up. and I'm like, oh, yeah, well, it looks like a 7,000-dollar movie. And then it keeps going. And it's in the once we're in the jail cell. and the shooting is happening. And I realize, oh, my God, we had these blanks that only fired one shot. and it would jam. So I had to show it going, use the sound effect,

cut to the other guy, cut back to have another one go. I had to do these editing tricks to make it look like. and then repeat a few frames, so it goes, (imitates gun) so it looks like a machine gun, all these stuff that I'm starting sweating. as I'm watching it, going, I can't believe I made this movie with that freaking camera. I don't know how I did. I couldn't even see. I'm there with this long lens, pulling my own focus. When I finally had to do a real movie, I was operating the camera on my first real movie. with a crew... I get the camera. and a guy comes over and he focuses for you.

You go, that's your job? You focus? I had to do my own focusing on the last movie. It was so hard. You're trying to focus on a guy while you're filming. You don't know where you are. And it's just... I just couldn't believe how much easier it is when you. have a crew. - It's extremely valuable to know that the pain. of that, the the spectrum of creativity. that's allowed within that, even just the focusing. - [Robert] Yeah. - Like how focusing fucks up on all. the cameras and your cameras. What what are the different artifacts that come up just.

to know the battlefield... In order to be a great general you have to know how to be. a soldier on the battlefield. - Yeah. Yeah. It's good to know all that stuff. But you know, it's like the end of the day, you could shoot something on a phone. If you have a great story, no one's gonna even notice something. Oh, we shot it on the phone. I didn't notice. You know? So sometimes people get caught up on what kind. of camera should I have? It's not the camera. That's just the tool. That's just the pen. That's just like, yeah, you can have different paint brushes, but you can go... I'm gonna limit my palette. I'm only gonna use a fan brush and a detailed brush.

and I'm gonna make a painting. Do you think that painting's gonna suffer? No. It's gonna take on an identity that you wouldn't. have had if you had all the other tools. So sometimes the limitations help you. because when you can do anything, it can be crippling. When I knew I could only use those things. from "Mariachi", it's like, all right, well it's very simple now, lemme show you how cheapskate I was, like, I did not spend on anything. So when you see 'em walking around with a guitar case, it's a shitty cardboard one, you know, like I got from home. I had to get a heavier one to put the guns in.

So we borrowed one, but it had this material ripped off the top. so you could see the wood. It was just the wood on top so it didn't match. the other one 'cause it wasn't all black. And I was too cheap to paint it black. I didn't wanna spend money on paint. So you see that cardboard case, he puts it down and when he goes to open it, I cut to the other one once the wood is... - Yeah... - Watch the edits, you'll see it. Now it's a completely different case for the guns. When he goes to cut it, when he closes it, it cuts to the other one, and he goes, oh,

that's how I did that whole movie. Again, it was a practice film. I don't wanna waste any money on it. I don't know if I will be able to make five bucks from it. - Yeah, but you're one. of the few great directors where both the movie's genius. and the process of making it is creative genius. It's fun to watch both, to know of both. - You know what I believe? - Right. It's from somewhere else. You just... - I have to say, that thing is freaking, I didn't get in its way, that's basically what helps.

And people say that, don't get in your own way. This is a little bit easier to understand. It's like, keep the pipe clear. Don't block it with your ego. Don't say, you're gonna be shocked, but don't ever say, oh shit, how do I do that? I don't know if I can do that. You didn't do it to begin with. Accept that it just came through you and try. to get back into that headspace, especially when you go to make a second film, or a third film, or follow up a success. That's when artists get really crippled. Because sometimes they start tiptoeing around. as an artist going like, oh shit, now it's my second film. My first one did really well.

They might not like my second one so much. That's not the headspace you were in when you made. the first one. You weren't hesitant like that. You are just... So try to keep that very naive. And that's why I say, commit to a body of work. Because I know a lot of filmmakers get stuck. on their second one and then go further. because they get crippled by the success of the first one. Then they start asking, oh shit, how did I do that? How can I do that again? And you get deeper and deeper. in a hole you can't get out of. - I think you've spoken. about that filmmakers, especially early. on in their journey, critics and the audience can destroy them.

Meaning it creates too much of a burden, too much... Just wear them down to where they're almost scared. to be creative. Can you just speak to that, how to ignore the critic? - I'll tell you something. that I think my best advice ever got. Early on, I was so fortunate. From an unlikely place. Because he sounded like Clint Eastwood when he said it. It's funny when you said that I thought that. But I did "Desperados" and it had Antonio Banderas. I brought Antonio to be in it from Europe, big action movie.

Spielberg saw it and he said, hey, I want you to do Zorro with Antonio. So we're working on it for a while. I was working on the pre-production, got to work with Spielberg doing that. It ended up stalling because there was two studios. involved in, and was moving. It was some weird thing where, but I got to work with him. for about five months. And I started getting really nervous because it's like, oh shit, you start thinking about, even movies of his that people would say, ah,

"Temple of Doom" is not as good as "Raiders". Have you seen "Temple of Doom"? I'd kill to do that movie. If I can make Zorro as good as that one, the one that people said it, it's like people don't know how good they had it. with that guy. But I started thinking, I even said, man, I just rewatched "Temple of Doom" last night. I don't know how I'm gonna do the Zorro movie. I've just never done anything like that. You start getting afraid because you go... The second thing, he said, all right, you're gonna do fine. But then I started thinking, this guy, at that time,

you don't know the era, but this was like mid-'90s. He was making the biggest, best movies of all and people would shit all over this guy. They would throw so much, they were so jealous. Press, audience, everyone just hits at him, just throwing rocks at him for everything. - Spielberg? - Yeah. You can't imagine it now. You had to have been at that time. Now, everyone has respect for him, but they made him run a fucking gauntlet. They were like, "Jurassic Park". Yeah. You can't even imagine it now,

but you should have seen the climate. It freaked me out because I'm like, maybe I should just stay under the radar. where I've been, not poke my head out so much... Because this guy has a head out. They're... Unwarranted. You can't even fathom it now because you weren't here. at that time. It was crazy. You would never even think of him that way. I'm glad it changed, because back then, it made people not wanna be successful. It made me be worried, maybe I shouldn't be go making a movie that has his name. on it, that's gonna poke my head out.

in a whole different realm of filmmaking at a studio level. Because even if I make a great movie, if I make a great movie, he's making great movies and he's getting this dog shit. I don't know if I could take it. So I asked him, because you don't know how resilient you can be. I said, man, how do you do it? How do you... What do you do when people just throw rocks. at you all day long? He goes, "Oh, Robert, you just don't blink.".

I was like, whoa. Now I see how he got through it. Just don't blink. Just like, pah, pah, pah, you know what's coming, don't blink. To him, it's like a Clint Eastwood line. Right? But you could see he was telling the truth, and you could see that's how he did it. He just avoided all criticism by just not blinking. It's like it's designed to make you blink, and you're just not gonna blink because you're committing. to a body of work. He just keeps cranking out movies. Whatever he feels like doing, he does.

That was the most powerful, and it never bothered me again. I just always kept that in mind. I tell that to my actors, I tell the people... That story has traveled. I even had some little actors who were starting. to get up and I said, remember, tell you a couple of things. Some people have told me, you're never as good as people say you are, and you're never as bad either. George Clooney told me that. I said, remember that. Then the second one, Spielberg, don't blink. Don't blink. - But there has to be a vision for yourself,

of what you're reaching for, what you're trying to do. - Again, yeah, sort of, I think if you told me. what would be my vision for the future, just committing to a body of work, which I've just kept doing. It's about as far as you can see. - Do you have a sense, do you have a vision of the body of work you'll make. in the next 20 years? Or is it just this fog? - I wasn't sure because you don't always know. You might not have the vision yet because you don't. have the information yet. If you just commit to a body of work, you'll start figuring out more reasons to keep doing.

that body of work. So when I turned 50, I was like, I guess I could just keep making movies. I mean, I guess that's been good for me. I guess I could just make more. I've done that already, but it's always fun and it's always new. I guess I could make... But it wasn't a lot of drive. Right? It's like that's not, it's like... Well, I guess I could just keep doing the body. You know, that's not as much as, I can't wait to keep doing another season. But I didn't know how to get to that point. So I thought, you know what? I got to this job so early.

I was in the early 20s. I bet there's some other job out there that exists. that I don't even know about. I don't know other jobs. So I looked up and I didn't believe it, but I literally bought "Jobs for Dummies". - Nice. - I was just like, I don't even know what, I just have a basic job out there. Turning the page, oh yeah, don't want that job, don't want that job, don't want that job, I'm just going through. And it gets to filmmaker. There's a little icon, beside this job, this icon is a guy like this. Literally, you look it up. and it says, this is the best job ever.

You get to just be creative. with your friends, sit back, watch the money roll in across the desk. And I said, but 99% of film students don't get. this job, so give up that dream. So I was like, I guess I got the best job. But then I started working with my kids when we did, had a TV show called "Rebel Without a Crew". based on that, right? I found filmmakers who had only made a short film, they hadn't made a feature. I picked this diverse group of filmmakers. Gave them $7,000 and we documented them making.

a feature, two weeks like I did. You can bring one person like I had Carlos Gallardo, the producer and star. of "Mariachi", bring one person, it could be your cameraman, or it can be your sound guy, whatever. But it's only that for the shoot and you'd have to do. the whole thing. And I saw those guys, by the time they're like, I don't know how we're going to make this movie... By the first week of shooting, they're already talking about their next feature. They became so confident because their idea. of what impossible is drops really quick when you-. - Yeah. Anyone interested in unlocking their creativities. Not even just filmmaking. I highly recommend that show and I highly recommend.

the follow-on show, which is where you make "Red 11". - Yes, that's the one I did. Then it came time for me to do one. So I made a movie called "Red 11" based on my experiences. in the medical hospital. But I'll turn it into a sci-fi thriller just to use. that so that I can use somebody getting stabbed in the eye. I'm still going to have more elements to show. how you can do camera tricks and stuff with no money. In the old days, make it for less than $7,000, which I think were like $5,000. Mainly because it had a lot of actors I wanted to pay,

but the movie itself, can make it for nothing. But I brought my son aboard as my number one, who hadn't been working with me in a while. He wrote "Sharkboy and Lavagirl" when he was seven, but then he hadn't really been working on my crew. He didn't know how to operate the sound equipment, the separate sound system and all that. I didn't show him until the day of filming. because I knew we're documenting, it would make a better tutorial. So by getting them working on the movies together, they came to me super excited by the end of the day. I thought for sure, oh, they're gonna hate this.

Even though it's only two weeks, they've got other interests. They don't wanna be filmmakers. I thought they were gonna be like, all right, I'm out of here, after one day. But instead he came to me and his brother who acted in it... Hey, dad. The actor didn't show up after the first day. The location didn't match the script at all. We asked you how we were gonna solve the problems. and you're like, I don't know, figure it out. And we thought, dad's stumped, for once he's stumped finally? But then by the end of the day, his eyes were all wide.

We figured it out. And he went, oh, they don't realize this is the creative process. Every day is like that. And in life too. Every day you don't know your machine's gonna not work. or you're going to get a flat tire or you're fired that day. So life is very unpredictable, just like a movie set. So I realized I'm gonna make them all work. on my movies now because it's teaching them about life. I'm teaching them very little about the film-making. It's about life lessons, about how you take on something impossible, turn chicken shit to chicken salad and make it work.

And that's the strong... That's life. That's the process of life. So many people say, well, I'm not ready to make my projects. It's like you're not ready for life either. You're like this all day. You're dodging shit that's going on. How come art has to be perfect? It's like, it should be the same. Life and art should be the same. - And I think filmmaking in general is full. of unpredictable things. - And in a short little microcosm too, within one project, you've got a whole blueprint. for how you're gonna solve life. 'Cause you've just done it on a creative level. - I think of all the art forms,

of all the art mediums, like that, it just has so many different components. - A lot of components to it. - And so like, there's so many ways to fuck things up, to learn from... - But any of the disciplines, if you add those to it, like I teach my actors to paint in between takes, we'll go and I'll take a picture of them in character. I show them a canvas, I show them paint. You don't need to know how to paint. This is to show you the brush is gonna know where to go. You just got to pick it up. Pick the colors you want. Doesn't matter how crazy they are, whatever's speaking to you. You lay it down, I'll show you some of the pictures.

You're not gonna believe. the masterworks these actors did like in a day. They just start doing it. Lady Gaga had her fingernails in there. Josh Brolin's doing his thing. Then I take a picture of them in character, do a line drawing of it. We project it on top. And mostly it's the painting coming through, their line drawing with a little bit. of their eyes painted in. You're not gonna believe these things. They couldn't believe it, but it teaches them that that thing about the creativity. is gonna come through. So even though they're already acting, they're already being creative, we're already making a movie, like you said, that's already a really great creative endeavor...

When we would sneak off and paint, you could tell it's firing a whole other part. of their brain. It was funny, I think Josh Brolin's girlfriend said, Josh said, hey, my girlfriend just said, she said, his wife now, but at the time, "Are you guys doing drugs? You leave the set and you come back and you're all like...". No, we're painting, we're painting, but that makes sense that you say. that because when you get your creativity firing, it's more powerful than any drug. And we would come back, and he'd be on the set going,

is it bad that I'm still thinking about the painting? And they're like, no, I think it's good, I think it's all good. But you can tell it's opening a whole other part. of their creative brain. So you can be doing acting in a movie and the painting. is still gonna tell, it's just how much untapped. potential your creative brain has. So the more you can do, the more you're firing off. And it was so cool, like I remember. we did one with Joseph Gordon-Levitt was painting. We came in and the table was like this and they said, we have a problem. You want them to throw the cards out, the playing cards out,

but it's so slick they go sliding off the table. And we both look at it and we both got the solution. at the same time. Oh, we just, just have them, just have them throw them, wherever they go. And then we'll place them... And then digitally, it's even better that he looks like. he gets them all perfectly laid out to show. what a card shark is. But that's what we have to do. We aren't gonna... We'll be here all day if we're trying to get... If we're gonna worry about where they go, just go bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. And then we'll place the cards down. and everyone will pick them up and then we'll marry.

the two in post. You just come up with creative solutions better, easier because you were just solving crazy creative. solutions in the other one. Like what paint medium do I use? What kind of gel am I gonna use? So when you come back to your main job, which is filmmaking, you're like, oh, I can figure this out in two seconds. So it helps you create a problem solve. So that basically, working. with my kids made me realize, oh, now I know exactly what I wanna do for the next 10 years. I only wanna make movies with my kids. because I'm mentoring them, but they're teaching me shit because they were the age.

I was when I made "Mariachi" and "Desperados". And their ideas are really sharp. So the mentoring goes both ways. And it's like the greatest parenting you can do. because you're building a project together. and in the same boat together, figuring it out. And it's family time. You're like checking all the boxes. So I thought my filmmaking going forward. is gonna be checking all the boxes in life. So I'm not not spending time with my family. We're actually giving them lessons. that they can go do anything they want in life. because they're gonna have different interests. But now it's kind of like going to college.

And this college is like the best college. because it pays you to learn. You get to do these crazy skills. Like my son is, you know, conducting the orchestra, the James Bond Orchestra in London. for the Spy Kids score and the score he wrote. because I can't write at his level. because he was always our best piano player. And they get... And you get the charge out of working with them. And then... And by making a label, there's a weird phenomenon that happens. if you guys wanna take your game to another level.

I stumbled upon this idea. My son that was my counterpart on that movie, Racer, he was my sound guy, like I said, came up with "Sharkboy and Lavagirl" when he was little. He became my writer, co-writer, co-producer. He had come to me and said, I wanna do VR-type movie. And I said, oh, let me show you, as an example of creativity and manifesting, I said, let me show you how it works. Let's make a company. We'll make a company called Double R, Double R Productions because we all have double R names,

all the kids. So if anyone ever wants to do anything, we can use our company. So let's make a logo and I'll make t-shirts and notepads. and stuff because once you have a company, you now have to make things for that company. Just like the advice I gave to people, stop aspiring, make a business card. that says writer, director, cinematographer, and an editor, because then now you have to conform. to that identity. So now if I create a label like Double R, we're gonna come up with ideas. We'll call up VR companies and say, hey, we have a company, a VR company. Would you like us to make you a film for your,

sell your headsets? Yeah, they gave us a budget. They're dying for content. They gave us a budget. We shot a 20-minute action movie called "The Limit". with Michelle Rodriguez and Norman Reedus. where you're in an action movie with them. And it was killer. They made us a big Double R logo, animated logo. Later that year, we did "Red 11", same logo. That movie went to Director's Fortnight in Cannes. Festivals were paying us. to come talk about how we made that movie. That's when we were doing the cards,

throwing the cards out. because they wanted their audiences... They knew they would love that. So we could have had a whole gig just continuing. to get paid to go to the... Usually you pay to the... You don't get paid. That's what a success that was. But then we had to make "We Can Be Heroes". So we had to stop. But "We Can Be Heroes" was a Netflix movie. where they asked me to make a Spy Kids type thing. And so I thought, oh, okay, I'll just do it with superheroes. I wrote it with my kids based on some. of their personalities. It's the most watched and re-watched movie.

in Netflix history. Like nothing can touch it because kids just keep watching it. over and over, because this is kids with super powers... No one's ever done that before. And they couldn't believe it. I'd heard anecdotally, that's how the "Spy Kids", people said, oh, the kids watch it over and over on video. But you can't keep track of that. You can on Netflix, because their biggest thing is people completing the movie. A lot of people don't complete a movie. and it still counts as a view. They may watch five minutes and change the channel. So do you complete a movie? That's really where they really value. Not only would it complete,

but re-watched, re-watched, re-watched per household. so many times- - Wow... - That one has a Double R logo as well. And my kids are like, dad, that really worked. I was like, I know better than I thought. I didn't know that me manifesting that company. was gonna turn into that. And we just keep making stuff. So I wanna do that with Brass Knuckle Films now. with the audience, because it works. So I said, as soon as you have a logo and a company, your brain starts coming up with all kinds of ideas.

And it's a filter. Like I said, sometimes the freedom of limitations. is all freeing. When I had to do "Four Rooms" and it's like, we have to use one hotel room. Oh, well then there's gonna be a dead body. There's gonna be... You can do a lot with limitations. If they said you could use the whole city, it would have been harder to come up with something. But Brass Knuckle Films has a filter, only action. Action movies, 'cause that's the stuff. that there's always an appetite for. If you ask Netflix right now, what do you need more of? They'll say action, action, action. We don't have enough action.

The last regime didn't leave us enough action. We need action. They'll pay a premium for an action film that we can make. at a lower cost. A $20 million action film is very cheap. Studios don't know how to make them that cheap. That's why they'll pay for an independent to go do it. And right now that's the key is to be independent. 'Cause a lot of studios. that can't even greenlight anything, things are so expensive, they don't wanna lose. their ass, but they need action films. So let's make something that everybody needs. and let's make it at a price. And we'll make it in my studio. because I got my own studio and I can keep all. the costs down because we have all the costumes.

and props and sets from 25 years of filmmaking to keep. the cost down. And we'll have the audience gets to invest. It's not crowdfunding or Kickstarter. You're actually an investor. Anyone who puts money in can pitch their idea. for an action film to me. And I'm gonna make one of the four films in that slate. from one of those ideas. 'Cause I want the audience to win. I want the audience to win and be a part of it. 'Cause the audience is an afterthought in Hollywood. They make a movie, they show the audience the movie.

Go tell your friends now so y'all spend money on our movie. Well where's your cut of that? So I want them to be successful. So if any of the movies in the slate do well, they make money off that one and then sequels or anything. But they're all gonna do well because everyone needs. an action movie and we're gonna keep the cost down. - Can I actually ask you just to focus in on action. You've created a lot of epic action films. What makes for a great action film? - It comes down to the character. You know, like if you think. about what are the best action films?

One of your favorite films? Like, "Die Hard". He's a cop, so he's still capable, but he's not Superman. The fact that he's in over his head and you're rooting. for him, that's a great character. John Wick, he is superman, but he's retired, and now he's pissed off and he's going back into a job. It comes down. to the character really being very important, because the action will then have a character to it. - I think "Léon: The Professional". - [Robert] That's, it's like, that's a character.

- [Lex] I mean, that's all about character. - Now, that, when I say we're gonna do action movies, I mean movies that are really action-first. Like, there's some movies that are more dramas. that have action... - Where's the boundary? So "John Wick" is action. - That's more action, but it has character. in it, but it's action-driven. - What about, like, "Predator"? - "Predator" is a sci-fi action film, so that's kind of a hybrid, which I like, but sometimes it's hard for the audience to know. what they're buying into. - Got it. - Like they focused a lot on the action. in the trailer, and then they felt there. was some otherworldly thing, but you didn't really know. But it's a great movie.

- So "Die Hard" is a good example. - It was a good example where I can think of right off. where there's a character that really made the difference. And then everyone repeated that. For a while there was, like, "Under Siege". It was like, a regular guy who really actually. has some training on a ship now. And then on a bus, you've got a cop. He's a cop, but he's not super cop. So that's why you root for him. That became an element that people repeated a lot. - What about "Taken"? - That's a great one. That's a great character who is superhuman, who's also retired. There's a superhero-type character.

in an extraordinary circumstance. That's, now his daughter's taken, right? And then there's ordinary people, like "The Terminator". That's a great character. Not the Terminator, he's a villain. But Sarah Connor, who is a waitress, doesn't think her life's going anywhere. And she finds out she's the mother of the guy. who's gonna save the human race. And she's got to train him. Suddenly she has to become someone else. Those are cool movies because it's a genesis of a character. And you see a character go from waitress to revolutionary.

- They step up, yeah. What about mob movies? I mean, some of them are like "Godfather", it's really not about, it's not action. - Not an action movie. A drama that has some action. - Right. I mean, "John Wick" is a mob film in some sense. "Goodfellas". I mean, there's a lot of dynamic action, but there's really not action-first. - That's really a character-type piece. Great. Freaking amazing. And it feels like action by the way he does it. It's just like that. It's like fast pace, fast talking, fast moving. Like "Escape from New York" is one of my favorites since. I was a kid. Because every movie, you'll notice this now.

that I tell you, even like a romantic comedy, there's a timeline. Every movie has to have like a ticking clock. So the audience knows the story's not just gonna take. over a period of years. Though suddenly someone in the movie, around 20 or 30 minutes in, will say, we've got to go find. the groom before the wedding this weekend. It'll be just like that. "Escape from New York" has the best example. of a ticking time clock because he's literally got bombs. in his neck and he's got a watch that shows him. He's constantly clocking it, how little time he has,

and he gets you so like, oh my God, is he gonna make it? That's like the best use of that. And no one's ever topped that ticking time clock. All the other ones seem artificial in comparison. "Aliens", we got to get off this planet now. because this whole thing's gonna blow up. There's a timeline. It's already urgent, but now there's an extra timeline on it. This is what happens. - As you're talking, you're just making me fall in love more and more. with action films. Sometimes forget how much you love action films.

- A really good action film. - Yeah. - In fact, like "The Terminator". The original "Terminator" just came out in 4K. I've been watching it again. It looks better than most movies look today. That's a $4 million movie. It looks incredible. You can see every bead of sweat in this movie. I was watching it again with somebody, a female, and there's always a point when you're watching. that movie where she'll turn and say, I love this movie. You know what point that is? It's the point where Michael Biehn tells her,

I came across time for you, Sarah. I love you, which is, you know, I always have. And you're just like, oh my God, there's like a real emotional love story there. that he put into "Titanic", that he put into "Avatar". He figured out that thing that makes those movies work. - By the way, I should say that, I mean, there is an aspect. of "El Mariachi" that is a love story, to me. - Yeah, there was a love story. - I don't know if you see it that way, but when I just rewatched it, I was like- - It's a tragic love story. - [Lex] I was like heartbroken that she's dead.

- I got heartbroken twice. Let me tell you the second time it happened. One, you're making that and you go, okay, this is how it has to go. But then now you're invested in this person. You go, oh man, she has to die. It's gonna be really sad. In fact, the studio even, when they said they were gonna remake it, a good thing I put that ending on, that's the only reason they showed it to an audience. We were gonna remake it. They weren't gonna put that movie out. They showed... They said, we need to show this movie to an audience. because they might not like the fact that we killed. a girl before we remake it. All right, they showed it to an audience. The audience liked it the way it was.

So they said, we're gonna take this movie. to some film festivals. I was like, no, not this movie! This is my practice movie! No one's supposed to see this movie! They go, no, no, you got something. No, no, dude, if I knew anyone was gonna see this, I would have shot it completely different. Give me $2,000. I'll go reshoot half of it. Just knowing people are gonna see it, I want something. The head of the studio was really smart. He said, you don't know what you have here. This feels to be really special. Let's take it to Telluride and see what happens. Telluride, Toronto did great. Like I said, and it won Sundance.

So now we had to put it out. But I was like, I would have said, don't show that movie. But they also questioned the ending and didn't come. into play because we ended up making "Desperados". And the girl in "Desperados" doesn't die. We didn't do that. We didn't kill Salma. But that's what needed to happen to Mariachi. Quentin called me one time. People would always say, oh, "Reservoir Dogs", he borrowed from this movie, Hong Kong action film, called "City on Fire" about these guys, they're all criminals and they kill each other or whatever. And he said, hey, they're showing a double feature. called East Looks West and West Looks East.

They're showing "Reservoir Dogs" with "City on Fire", the one they say I borrowed from. And they're showing "Mariachi". with a Hong Kong film called "Run", where they ripped off "Mariachi". Like they just took the whole story. It had two Chinese actors in Mexico with the guitar cases. They just followed it beat by beat. So we were watching it and it was like scene by scene. They just remade it. without even getting the rights or anything. It was so fun to watch. So we saw "Mariachi" first, then we watched that one. And I'm like, what's this big brothel scene?

This isn't my movie. Oh, the bad guy. Oh, there's a scene in my movie where the bad guy. has two girls in bed with him and they figured. that was a whorehouse, but it was just his apartment. So they got this whorehouse built up. - They reinterpreted it. - Yeah. And they have helicopter shots and all kinds of big things. And the action was awesome. But then... The girl's really good. And then midway through the movie, I'm like, oh, shit, she's gonna die 'cause I killed her in mine. I don't want her to die. I like this actress. She's really great. And they have a really great love story. I go, I hope they change that part. No, they kill her.

So I felt bad twice because I sealed, I sealed her fate! I sealed her fate because... - Yeah. - I have a line in "Spy Kids 2", because I started thinking when you create stuff, you start thinking, I wonder if that's how our creator is? He's like, oh, shit, I just kind of threw that in a memo and now. that whole town's gonna get wiped out. - Yeah. - You know, I didn't even think about the implications of that, because there's a line... I was making a character that Steve Buscemi plays.

in "Spy Kids 2", and he's a creator. He just wanted to make a little miniature zoo for kids. And then he thought, well, what if I put some together, like a lizard with a snake and it's a slizzard or you. have a spider monkey, which is like literally spider legs and a monkey top. So he makes that. And then he thought, hey, why don't I make him a little bit bigger for kids. that have big hands? And it got out of control and they turn. into these huge creatures and now they're trying. to eat him. So he's hiding and the kids find him hiding.

And he says this one line that people keep coming, it's on the Internet a lot, this meme about this, why is this line in this movie? It's so wild. I thought, I wanted Steve to come up to the camera. and he's lost in his own creative world. And he says, I can't even go outside. because my own creations are gonna eat me. Then he comes up to the camera and he goes, do you think God hides in heaven because he too lives. in fear of what he created, here on Earth?

It's like really, just for a moment, this thing. And it's like, because you feel like that way. when you're creating stuff, like you're creating something and then now it's taking. on a life of its own. And it's like, oh no, now this character has to die. I didn't want that. This domino effect of creation. And you start thinking, well, this must be. what creation, maybe he is hiding up there. because look at, he didn't expect all this shit. to happen, giving us free will and all that. - (laughs) I mean, in this particular context, you are the creator of this story. And for some reason, it makes me feel good to know that you feel the pain.

of this character dying. - Yeah, absolutely. Because if I'm writing it, but if it's not coming. from me, I'm as surprised sometimes. And Quentin would say that. He'd say, you just get two characters talking. when I'm writing my script, and then suddenly they're just talking to each other. And I was like, what does that mean? Now I know what that means. It's like, he just gave them life, and now the dialogue's coming through him. - Let me just ask you, you're the perfect person to ask about the genius. of Quentin Tarantino. What makes him special, as a director,

as a creative mind, what do you see in him. that's beautiful, that's brilliant? - Since I met him, he was just like this brilliant ball of energy. And like if you see him, I walk around his house and I'll see a few sheets. of paper all handwritten out. I'm like, what's that? He goes, oh, that was something I was starting to write. and I'm not gonna finish it. I'm like, can I take these and go turn it into like.

a whole trilogy of films? What he throws away, all these mortal men would kill for. You meet people like that. I tell people, you know, your parents say, watch out who your peers are. When you're younger, that means one thing, but once you get older, surround yourself around people. who swing much farther than you. You know, that's just like, but that's really true. I mean, just by being around him and working with him, you get, by osmosis, you learn stuff,

and it just ups your game. because they just swing way beyond you. Jim Cameron was like that. So when I first met him, I was trying to impress the hell out of him. because I was such a big fan. I was about to go do "Desperados" and I went, hey, I just took a three-day steady cam course. because I can't afford steady cam operator, so I'm gonna operate steady cam myself on "Desperados". Now, if he was just my peer, he'd say, oh, I did the same thing. I'm gonna do the same thing. That would be like hanging out with somebody. of your ilk, but you want somebody who's above that. Do you know what he said? He goes, I bought a steady cam, but not to operate it.

I'm gonna take it apart and design a better one. Us mere mortals trying to learn how to operate. the camera, he's designing all new systems. That's the guy you wanna hang out with, not someone who's doing what you're doing. So surround yourself by those kinds of people. And that's when you learn things like, don't blink, like somebody who's really swinging for the fences. and accomplishing so much. And Quentin was like that. So I met him at the festivals. He saw "Mariachi", he loved it.

We came up, we talked and he said, you'd like my next film. I'm writing right now, "Pulp Fiction". So I thought, man, I'm gonna put this guy, he's so fun. I'm gonna write him in my "Desperados" script, which I was writing. So that was before "Pulp Fiction" and all. that when I had cast him. I didn't know he was gonna go become such a household name. I just was drawn to his energy. and I'd already written him in. And I met Steve Buscemi there and I was like, I'm writing a character for Steve Buscemi. But then I went back to the Sony lot where I was working. on "Desperados" and Quentin. and I ended up having offices right next to each other.

on the Sony lot by accident. I didn't even know that. I just met him and I go back and he just, 'cause originally "Pulp Fiction" was for TriStar. because Danny Devito was a producer. and he was gonna make it for TriStar. So he was there writing "Pulp Fiction". and I was writing "Desperados". So I'd go show him storyboards from "Desperados". and he'd come act out scenes of "Pulp Fiction". And we got to be really good friends that way. We'd go eat lunch at Versailles across the street, the Sony lot. And then Sony passed on "Pulp Fiction". It's too weird, it's too long...

Eight million dollar movie or seven million. They're like, yeah, we're gonna go make. the next Pauly Shore movie instead. We don't understand this thing. And Miramax got it and they'd just been bought by Disney. So they produced their first film was "Pulp Fiction". And then that thing went to Cannes and it was a whole thing. But what I loved about his story. is that when he made "Pulp Fiction", he had a director screening. He showed it to some directors and I wasn't able to go. But anyway, I had dinner with him once and it. was in my journal because I keep a journal. At 2:40 AM, after I dropped him off at his house, I said,

Oh wait, how did your movie come out? "Pulp Fiction", he just finished it and he went, man, it still feels like a movie Quentin would make. It doesn't feel like a real movie. And I was like, that's fine. What do you mean? It feels like one of those movies I would make, like "Reservoir Dogs". It doesn't feel like a real movie. And I was trying to be. the supportive friend going, oh man, he was so excited. about this movie and now he's bummed about it. And I was like, well, it should be different, it should be like...

He's like, wouldn't have it. Drove off. So I thought, I guess that wasn't the one. So I went home and I called some of the directors. that were at the screening and they go, yeah, this isn't the one for him. It's not. They had, none of them saw it. None of them saw it, but that, I know you're like surprised. But that happened with George Lucas too, with "Star Wars". Everybody saw that movie and was like, poor George. They showed it to all his director friends. Poor George, waste all this time with this for? Only Spielberg was the one who said, it's naive and it's gonna do really good. because it's naive and kids will like it.

But everyone else was like, what's he doing? We're artists. We're making art films. What's he doing this garbage for? Because nobody knows. It shows no one knows anything. Not even the filmmaker. When you're being groundbreaking, you don't know what groundbreaking is. Not you or anyone around you, except maybe one or two people. So he said, there's one person, like, oh yeah, who is your Spielberg? He goes, Kathryn Bigelow, without a doubt. She's the only one who said, there's something here. No one else was saying that. He said, in fact, because he remembered suddenly, he'd forgotten the story, but if it wasn't in my journal, I would have forgot it too.

He goes, in fact, one of my friends even said, I wanna sit you down and tell you all the things. that are wrong with your movie, but I'll wait till you get back. from the Cannes Film Festival. Then he goes and he wins the Palme d'Or. Then his friend's like, What the hell do I know? I've only made one movie myself, so nevermind. I guess we're all wrong. So even he didn't expect that at all. So that was a shock, even to him. So think about that. - Yeah. - That means, what do you do? Commit to a body of work. Just do that. You don't know. You don't know what's gonna be a "Pulp Fiction",

what's gonna be a "Jackie Brown", what's gonna be, you don't know. And you'd like to think they know, but they don't know either. They feel it. Like I asked Jim Cameron, I said, do you see your movie really clearly? Can you see it with hyper focus? Because it seems like that. And he goes, it's like really far, it's out of focus. And you work on it and you work on it, it starts coming... I said, okay, good. So that's normal. I thought maybe he had laser vision or something, but no, even him, he doesn't really know, but he feels that he can make decisions. and he understands what a creative drive.

is and how to just keep being relentless about it. But it's not like they have all the... Proximity is huge. Proximity will change your life. Did for me, just being around those guys, they didn't teach me, hey, I'm gonna teach you how to make a movie. Just being next to them, being in their world just ups your game. And you just, you're able to do things you weren't able. to do before, you get ideas you didn't get to do before. I'll show you one of my painting things.

You're not gonna believe this freaking thing. I had a painter friend in Germany, Sebastian Krüger. He gives a workshop once a year. I thought, I'm gonna go there and I'll learn more. about directing by watching this guy paint than I will. by watching another director. 'Cause that's just now I know how creativity works. You're gonna learn lessons outside of the box by doing that. And I tried to practice before going out there. I was doing a Danny Trejo. I'll show you the before and after. You're not gonna freaking believe what you see, but this is, it really tells a story.

of how important proximity is. So I do this painting. It's like, ah, it looks garbage. I'll show you. It looks like garbage. I can't do paintings that are just like, see, I never should say I can't, 'cause you can just cut your leg off, but I couldn't at the time paint, just paint brush into paint and then write. on the canvas like that without using some kind. of medium, which this guy, Sebastian Krüger, would do. So first I did a digital painting of Danny Trejo, like just to get the framing and all that.

- Right. How is that created? - That's just like, that's like. on a Wacom tablet, but then I did it with paint. and it's like, ah, it's all cruddy. And it's too thick, the paint... And it just looks, it looks... And I just gave up right away. I was trying to pre-practice, so I wouldn't be a total buffoon there because I was going. the next week. And I thought, he's using a different brush. Obviously. He's using a better paint. This stuff just is clogging up and it's crap. I'm sure when I get there. So I get there and he's doing a Mick Jagger. and he starts with a mid-tone.

He starts blocking in the face with a little tiny drawing. of where the face goes. He starts doing that. He starts adding some highlights. There's the photo, his reference. And I'm like, why are you concentrating so much on the cheek first? And he's like, it's different every time. And I go, why do you, what paints are you using? And he's like, it was regular acrylic paint. What brushes do you have? Regular brushes. I'm like, how come mine doesn't look like yours? Let me try what he's doing.

I mean, you start with a mid-tone. I'm gonna do that Danny again. Start with a mid-tone. I'll start adding some highlights. And I did that. And everybody kept coming over going like, did you just do that? And I was like, yeah, I don't know how, but it's very cartoony still. He's doing a very realistic Mick Jagger. Look how real that is. And you're just watching, and he doesn't teach you anything. So he just starts painting. So this is the photo he had as a reference, but then this is his painting. Right? - Yeah.

- And because I'm there, he's not teaching you how to paint. - Through osmosis you're like learning somehow. - You're seeing that there isn't a trick. - Yeah. - I thought he had a trick. and that's why I couldn't get any further. He's using the same brush and the same paint. Well, how come I can't do that? And you go, you do it. I go, I'm gonna try and do something realistic. I've never done realistic before. because I'm a cartoonist and everything was cartoony. And that was just easier for me because I thought. I would need too much training. I did another Trejo. I started doing a realistic... I finished out just one section of his face and put.

the pen down because I did that, the same day. - Nice. - I got out of my way. because seeing him get out of his own way... I think that's why sometimes people need to go to school. for stuff like that. Because then now, well, I just did four years of school. So now I must know. Now you're giving yourself permission. But you could give yourself permission right away. and it's gonna come through. - And drawing Danny Trejo of all people, it's like there's so much going on there. It's like he's so expressive. - He's so expressive. - I mean, you've worked with him a lot.

and you've, I mean, he's one of those badass humans on the screen. You've created that. Can you just talk. about what it's like creating those characters? - What was exciting about "Desperados", I went to go make it. and there were no Latin actors working in Hollywood. because no one was creating roles for them. So I thought, wow, I got to go create my own stars. We'll bring Antonio from Europe because they kind. of know his name from the Almodóvar movies. And I saw him in "Tie Me Up! Tie Me Down!". when I was in the hospital writing "Mariachi".

or watching TV while I was a patient. And there's a scene where he like headbutts Victoria Abril. He just gives her headbutt. He goes, like that. I was like, whoa, I bet that guy would wanna be in an action movie. He's got something inside. So I called him when we were doing "Desperados". and I said, would you ever consider doing an action? "Oh man, I'd love to do action movies.". So I said, I got a movie for you. I got a movie for you. It was a sequel to "Mariachi". And so Salma I found. in Mexico television, you know, doing,

she couldn't get work in the US because of the roles. - How did you find her? I mean this is one of the greatest-. - It was a crazy story. It was one of the best stories. I was really determined to hire a real Latin, especially Hispanic, and then she's Mexican, actress to be the Mexican character. That's like as authentic as you can get. And there was no one who was getting any jobs. because no one was creating any. So there was no one that had any movies. under their name because there was no one... It was a whole systemic problem, right? This was '94, '93.

So I was watching a Paul Rodriguez show on Univision. because I was trying to practice my Spanish. because I was having to do all these Spanish interviews. because "Mariachi" was in Spanish. That was the other part I didn't tell you. I didn't speak Spanish when I made that movie. We didn't grow up with it. So I never, I left that part out of the "Mariachi" story. because I thought people already didn't believe I made. the movie by myself. If they knew I made it in a language I didn't speak... I should have said it because it'd be even more inspiring. Now you have no excuse. I would, wrote the English subtitles basically.

- Holy shit! - I wrote the titles, what became the subtitles, and then we'd take it to the actors. and the actors would translate it for me. And I was like... - That is so inspiring... Holy shit! - I'd be like, I would try to speak Spanish and say, (speaking in foreign language) like let's record. And they'd be looking. at me like, that means, let's remember. (speaking in foreign language) doesn't mean record. That means (speaking in foreign language). Now I know. Back then I didn't know. So I'm watching Univision and then there's Salma as a guest. And she's a big soap star down there in Mexico.

And she comes out. She's beautiful. She's funny. Everyone's laughing. She's Salma. Everyone that we know now. And she starts talking about what I gather. from what she's saying that she's. having trouble finding any work in the US. because of her accent. And then Paul Rodriguez says, well, say something in English. And then she sounds just like she does now. And he goes, "That's great.". "I know. I know.". And I went, I think this is the girl. So I called her in my office. and I videotaped our first meeting together. So I have that somewhere. - Oh, that's awesome. - Telling me about...

- That's so awesome. - It's Salma. It's Salma. - Yeah. - It's her with her energy, with her passion and it's funny. She became instant friends with my wife. You know? Before they walked over, your wife and I are best friends. She already was like part of the family. She's a godmother to my kids. And I thought, I'm gonna help you. You're gonna help me. I need to have a Mexican actress in this. And you're gonna be phenomenal. The studio didn't see it. They were like, what? She hasn't done anything. Why don't you just hire somebody else who already. has a name?

So if we just give her one movie, then she'll be someone who's in a movie. and then you can keep casting... So I made a whole other movie with her. in English called "Roadracers". It was my second film for Showtime. Really cool little "Rebel Without a Cause"-type movie. And I gave her a role in that so we'd have an example. of her doing English. And they still were like, we need a screen test. We need to have a screen test with a bunch. of other actresses. You know? So I said, sure, let's do that. So I went over to her house the night before. the screen test and we worked on the scene,

which is the best scene, where she's operating. on his arm and they've got all this chemistry. And I was just directing her through it, like completely down to when you pick up the water. and you hand them the water, don't scream, oh, hot water! Just be like, hot water. And while he's spitting it out and it's gonna be. a big dramatic action with like a very light delivery. And so we got it down to a science. The next day we show up, Antonio does a scene where all the girls come in. He does it with her. Clearly they've got amazing chemistry.

She just nails it. He's great. He loves her too. Studios like, okay, you can hire. Reluctantly, like that. Right? But once they saw the footage come as we're shooting. and they saw it on the big screen when they're watching. the dailies, then they were like, oh, my God! And then they saw it. Then they saw what I saw when I met her. But sometimes you, like you say, what do you do when people are like, hey, how come we're using these... Just know that not everyone's gonna see it.

You may have the only vision. Just keep going. There's an instinct that tells you to keep going that way. You'll get proved right or wrong. Maybe you're slipping on the first two rocks. or whatever, but follow your instinct. because you get, everyone's gonna have an opinion. And it is not necessarily the right one. And when you're an independent filmmaker, you can make those decisions to change people's career, that changes the world. And that's why you wanna remain independent. That's why what's happening now in the industry. is great, because I have to make movies like the way. I started, which is what I've always liked to do,

which is just doing it where we create our own destiny. We go, hey, we're gonna make a movie. We're gonna make it for this budget so we can make it... And the story is gonna be so character driven and cool. We're gonna get big actors to be in it. because they're gonna wanna be in it. So Danny Trejo, you asked me about Danny Trejo. - Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. - Danny Trejo. We're doing "Desperados" now. I'm casting all kinds of people. Now I have. this character that I want to have a bunch of knives. He opens up his vest and there's a bunch of knives. So bring me all the coolest looking Latin actors. we can find. And before he even walked in, there's a picture of him.

He already looked like the guy, but he was younger. He always just played prison inmates. It was a picture of him as an inmate in a prison. I wanna give him a cool role, you know, just whoever this actor is. He walks in and I see him. It's Danny Trejo. He sits down and I had the prop knife already made. And I say, you need to have this in your hand. and look like you sleep with it. Like just practice flipping it around your hand. I gave it to him. You got the role, just start practicing with that. He gets up and walks out. He doesn't have to say anything because there's no dialogue.

He walks up. We get to the set and he kept saying, "Put me in, coach, give me a line. Give me a line.". No, no, you're such a nice guy. You're gonna blow the whole mystique. I want this guy to feel like the most evil, scary guy of all. And you're such a nice guy. I didn't let him talk till "Dusk till Dawn". But one thing I noticed was that the town. we were shot in, the Mexican town, which is the same town I shot "Mariachi", we went back there because I wanted to pay back the city. So we had this big movie there, and they didn't really know Antonio. because he was in European movies.

Salma hadn't come to the set yet. But they saw Danny Trejo there in his vest looking like. a Mexican icon... They would go like this. Everyone thought he was the star. And I just know magnetism when I see it. And I went, this guy's got something. So I went to him and I said, I got a movie we're gonna do someday. This was '94. We didn't make this movie for 15 years. Machete, you're gonna be Machete. I had an idea for "Machete" then. It wasn't the same story.

I had seen a story... Actually, "Mariachi", the guy from "Mariachi" sent me. this funny story. He said, hey, look at this story. That the USDA and FBI sometimes would hire. a Mexican Federale to come do a job for 25 grand. that they didn't want to get their own guys killed on. I said, that's Machete, the guy that they pay. But he's not doing it for the money. It turns out he has to get this guy that escaped Mexico. And that's the twist. So that was the original story. I said, we're gonna do this someday. And we talked about it for years and never did it.

Never got around to doing it. So when I did "Spy Kids", I put him in "Spy Kids" and I said, hey, let's pay tribute to that character we never got to make. And you'll be Uncle Machete. He's a gadget guy, but he's got a mysterious past. But then a few years later, Quentin and I were doing "Grindhouse". And he'd already done "Dusk till Dawn". I was building my own Latin star system. Salma showed up in a bunch of my movies. Cheech shows up in every movie. Danny shows up. I brought Cheech out of retirement, put him in my movie. I needed to create my own Latin star system.

because all my scripts, because when you write in your own voice, you're gonna write probably somebody that's Latin. So you need to have a star system that matches that, so that you don't have trouble casting and people. are like, well, you can't hire this person. So I built up my own star system. So Danny was one of my stars. So after we're doing "Grindhouse", we had to do fake trailers for "Grindhouse". And I told Quentin... I know what trailer I wanna do for the movie I never. had to make with Danny called "Machete". That'll be so fun to finally get that out of our system. and doing a trailer is so fun. It's two days of shooting.

Just still being that resourceful guy... We asked this company. that had a digital camera we wanted to use. Can you let us, send it to us for a couple of days? Screen test, I mean, camera test session. Except instead of a camera test we shot the trailer. We got a free camera, shot the trailer with him. And it's just the money shots, him opening his vest full of machetes... You know, him aiming that gun, him in a waterfall with two gals. And I just came up with this really funny trailer. and we shot it. People were screaming at the premiere. You couldn't even hear it. They just wanted that movie so badly because there.

was blaxploitation in the '70s. There was never an mexploitation. It felt like this should have existed, but it didn't. It's a Mexican superhero. They'd just never seen anything like that. You know, now you know, but like even his mom calls him Machete, like he just became this guy. And about 250 movies that he's been in, "Machete" is his most famous one. So for five years, five years, people would come up to us and say, where's "Machete"?

Why ain't you? When's that movie coming out? We're like, it's not a real movie. When it looks real, we wanna see that movie. So we finally made. the movie because people just asked for it. And I used, I was adamant about being resourceful again. All the shots that are in the trailer are really great. I got to reverse engineer the trailer into a movie. so that I can use the shot that's in the trailer. Like this girl in the waterfall. Why would this girl be in the waterfall? I thought of a really clever way that he gets the bad guy. Her hair's kind of, her face is kind of covered by his hair. We'll cast Lindsay Lohan there.

Or the Senator, we'll switch it out for Robert De Niro. Well, I just reverse engineered it so every time. there's a shot in the trailer, it's in the movie. But I shot all the footage around to lead up to it. That's another fun creative exercise, is to reverse engineer something you just did like. this on the day. You just threw a bunch of cards out basically. with that trailer. And now you got to go make a movie using all those cards. That's like a creative exercise. that I thought, so satisfying... So fun... - Yeah, that was beautiful. You're actually known in part, maybe you can correct me, but to do pretty unexpected, surprising,

kind of interesting casting. So Robert De Niro is an example of that. And that's just a great role. The second aspect of that, I heard the story that you can just get an actor. in and out in just a few days, really fast. The Robert Rodriguez experience, as they call it. How do you make that happen? Like can you just tell the story of Robert De Niro? - Well, I'm the editor, I'm the cameraman, I'm the DP. And so when I call him and say, I've got you as the villain in this whole movie,

but I swear I'm gonna shoot you on four days. You come down for four days. In fact, there's a scene where he's in the hospital. He's just smiling, he's having such a good time. because he couldn't believe I said, guess what? When you wake up from your hotel room. at the Stephen F. Austin, you just cross the hallway, that's the set. The room next to yours, we turned into the hospital set. So you're just gone come laying there in your pajamas. - Really? That's what you did? - Well, yeah, we had to save time. We only have four days. So everything had to be very thought out. to be like boom, boom, boom. Let's shoot the money, get him out of this. We don't have to spend a lot of money on him. - Book a room in a hotel,

set up to look like a hospital room? - Yeah, that's our set. It's real. You don't have to dress it and it's just right there. All you do is put a little tube there for his IV. and then you. have a couple of nurses and it looks like a hospital. - Just genius. It was Robert De Niro. - Resourceful, resourceful. - Next door. - But I said, you're gone think about me. when you're on your next "Meet the Fockers" movie. and you're on there for six months, but they have you sitting in a trailer. I don't like to do that. So, you know I gave Lady Gaga her first two movies? Because after "Machete" she said, publicly, she said,

I saw a "Machete". and my song "Americano" should have been in "Machete". I thought, she saw a "Machete"?. So I called her up and I said, hey, I'm making a sequel. and I would certainly use your music, but have you ever thought about acting. because you're an amazing performer? I think I've worked with a lot of actors. who are also musicians and they're always great. because they already know how to be a persona, be on stage, be in front of a bunch of people, which most actors can't do. And she said, actually, I studied acting before I became a singer. So, well, you'll never be able to be in a movie. because you know what? They don't know how to shoot people out. They want six months of your time and you're always on tour.

But if you come be here, I have a part for you. I can shoot you out in half a day. This whole section of a movie... And I'll shoot your movie poster. She's like, okay. So she shows up. I had all the sets, like a conveyor belt right next to each other. Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot. She's in the car. That's why she had me do her music video. for "Rain On Me" later. She said, we should just go to Austin. Robert, put me on a... I was throughout that whole movie... I don't know how we did that. It was half a day. She was there half a day. I did the same for "Sin City 2". I was like, I have a set here waiting for you.

If you're on tour in Houston, just drive into Austin. I'll shoot you out in half a day. You could be in a scene with Joseph Gordon-Levitt. Sure. She came down. - So wait, how do you take Robert De Niro, how do you take Lady Gaga and like solve the puzzle. of all the scenes that have to be in? How do we shoot them quickly, efficiently, conveniently? - You have to edit your own movie. I have this analogy, a food analogy that works really well. The script is like your grocery list. Filming is like grocery shopping,

getting the best performances, getting. the best beat, getting the best ingredients, right? Editing is like the cooking. Too much of this, not enough of that... You fuck the whole thing up. So many filmmakers do not edit. - Yeah. - And they give it to some other guy. who might look at all your ingredients and go, this is all great, but I'm gonna go make a fucking souffle. And he makes something else. So by doing that job, I mean, I've worked on some big stuff. and I realized finally after many years, because I've always edited, I realized this is why movies cost so much.

It could be 150-200 people on the crew. And I swear not one of them knows how to edit, not one. So they're getting the wrong stuff. They're having to reshoot shit. The editor is in a room somewhere useless, calling after the fact. You still need to get this closeup or you gotta reshoot. that because it doesn't match, because no one knows editing. So if you just know that, you're already miles ahead of 99% of Hollywood, but that's just how I learned, by accident. So I kind of stumbled upon it.

But I realized that's what the problem is because across. the board, I'm watching them going, that's not gonna match. You guys are just spending money, sending crews out, shooting stuff for this... It's a clusterfuck. Let me show you. And that's how, in "Sin City", Bruce Willis, nine days. Brittany Murphy's in all three stories, one day. Benicio del Toro, three days. It's just like, you're just shooting this stuff. Mickey Rourke is in a sequence with Rutger Hauer. We shot eight months apart. I didn't have Rutger Hauer.

until I was doing "Sharkboy and Lavagirl". So I just shot Mickey acting with me and then. I shot Rutger Hauer acting with me. and I just cut them together. - Wow... - What's weird is editing exercises are like, I used to do these editing exercises. where I had two of my VCRs together. and I would cut my movies, but sometimes I would just cut a music video. And I cut a music video once because I was a big fan. of Rutger Hauer and a big fan of Mickey Rourke. So I said, I wanna make it look like. they're in a movie together. So I cut this music video together. So it shows like lightning on Rutger Hauer. in "The Hitcher" and then lightning on Mickey. from "Rumble Fish". But "Rumble Fish" is black and white.

So I made the whole thing black and white. I was like 19... I was 19 years old when I did that. And then years later I'm making "Sin City". I shot Mickey not knowing who the other actor. was gonna be until I cast him eight months later and it. was Rutger Hauer. I'm cutting them together to look like. they're in the same movie and it's in black and white. I'm like, I've done this before. (Lex laughing). Oh my God, I found that whole video. It's like, Oh my God, I already made a movie that with 'em in black and white. That's weird shit, right? That's the magic of creativity. It's like sometimes when you have a vision, it's not clear, but it's coming to you from the future.

So you got to just follow the voice, no matter what anyone says about your curtains, just follow the voice you got in your head, because you don't know and you're not smart enough. to know, and you don't need to know. You just need to do. You just need to be the hands. So this is like what you can do with no time or money. when you know all those jobs. It's the benefit of knowing those jobs. Like I said, the more you know those jobs, the more you know your main job,

which is being creative, but on the day, thinking on your feet. So I'm gonna show you this test. Okay. So for "Dusk till Dawn" TV series, I would always shoot the first episode. and the last episode of like a seven. or eight episode season. There's three seasons. By the time we got to the third season, I was doing "Alita", so I couldn't do the big finale episode. And my actor who plays the George Clooney character, D.J. Cotrona, he's somebody who fucking wanted to be. a writer, was writing... He's wrote "Fight or Flight". This is a movie that's going to come out with Josh Hartnett.

That's his. He wrote it. And after doing this, he was like, man, hearing you talk, you know what I got? This is what I love about, you inspire people. The feedback loop inspires you back. He said, man, hearing your talk for "Red 11". and the cards and I've got a script. that's partially written... I'm just gonna go. I'm gonna go crank it out in three days. I'm gonna cut off the phone in three days. I'm gonna finish that thing in three fucking days. And he came back and he said, I finished the script, and I read it, and I go, what, you wrote it in three days? And he goes, I wrote something before, but I just kept thinking I wasn't ready.

And then you told me the thing about not being ready. And you said that, it really resonated. I went and I finished it in three days. I go, man, I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna go do the D.J. method. I call the D.J. method. I have a bunch of half-baked ideas. that I'm just gonna go turn off the phone and finish. the thing in three days. And I'll fix it later, but the three days, there's gonna be pure pipe. It's just gonna be coming. through because you're just gonna be picking up the pen. So anyway, he went, he came to me with this idea. He said, oh man, I was hoping you'd do the last episode. of "Dusk till Dawn" because I had this great idea. for a scene... We're in a zombie town, Western town.

We have those guns where you have to pull the trigger, the hammer back before you can fire. So I thought, what if I have a gun that's empty? And I got bullets in the other hand. And I bump into a zombie, the bullets go flying. I jump and I catch all the bullets and shoot. the guy before I hit the ground. Okay, that's kind of a real cool "Desperados" type thing, but dude, it's just a seven day shoot for these episodes. Every one of the crew will have a different idea. on how to do that. Stunt guy will put you on wires, because you have to do all that action...

The DP isn't even operating the camera. It's a camera guy. The director doesn't know how to shoot. He's not operating the camera. Your editor is in a room somewhere. VFX guys aren't there. You're not gonna be able to ask them how to do it. But I, I have my own VFX, I came up with how we did all the shots in "Sin City". and all the "Spy Kids" movies. We need one guy to come do it. I'll come do it for you. I'll come do it because I'm already gonna be there. because I have to shoot a second unit fight scene. for the other actor who wanted a cool fight scene.

So I was already doing that. When it comes to your scene, we'll switch places because it's gotta be done quick. because you've gotta shoot it in 20 minutes, because you've got a ton of other shit. you've gotta shoot and you'll just never get it. You won't even get it in a film schedule, in a regular movie schedule. It's just too crazy. You need somebody with a vision to do the whole thing. So this is what it would look like if you were on the set. I'm gonna show you. the footage and I'm gonna show you the scene. I have to show it to you a couple of times. because you're not gonna believe what you're about to see. So, if you were on the set, this is what it would look like.

So I get there. They said, we're ready for that scene. So I get over there to the set and I go, okay, where are you coming out of? And he goes, this building. Where are you getting the bullets from? That body. Okay. Bring that body closer. Okay. Stunt guy, bring a pad over. I wanna see you just jump and start to twist. as if you're turning. I just wanna see how much airtime you can get. to get any action before you hit the pad. He starts to jump. He barely starts jumping. He's already hitting the pad. So I was like, okay, that ain't gonna work. You get out of here. D.J., you're gonna do it. I have no idea how I'm gonna do this.

I hadn't thought about it before, but now you're there. - This is so awesome... - And now the options are very limited. You're very limited. Look at the Sun. You're gonna see the Sun not move. You see, that's the point where the Sun starts getting lost. I have to shoot this in 20 minutes. You're gonna do three jumps and I'm gonna cut it. to look like one jump. All the bullets are gonna miss. Only one's gonna go in. So here, just follow. what I'm saying because we don't have time. What cameras do we have? What's on the A camera? A long lens. Oh yeah, that's my camera. I'll operate that. What's on the B camera? A steady cam. Leave it on steady cam. No chance. No time to convert it.

At one point, I went to lower it. So just flip it upside down. We'll flop it later. Give me the main camera. Okay, D.J., start running towards the bullets. and grab it and pretend like it gets shot out of your hand. I shoot it in slow motion, but I'm showing you how it would look on the set. Okay, now the bullets are flying. I'm gonna add those digitally. I'm gonna hold the bullets up to the light in each angle. so that they know what it's supposed to look like. so they can match that. Otherwise, it'll look phony. Now, first jump. I just want you to commit to just jumping out. and just look at the barrel.

Just look at the barrel on your hands. when you're jumping, because that'll look like. you're looking at the bullets. Just don't even think. about that you're gonna catch a bullet. Don't think about that you're gonna start turning. Just stretch your body out. Get a really graphic, look at how cool that looks. - [Lex] Yeah. Yeah... - Then the side view shot this at the same time. You can already tell. it's gonna look like bullets are missing, right? - [Lex] Mm-hm. - Okay, now I need this part though. I need the part where he's catching the bullet.

This little window there, how am I gonna do that? With a lens that long, it's gonna be all out of focus. It's not gonna be slow motion enough. He even knows me and he's like, what the hell am I doing? Just lay on the pad and rock up and down. And as you're coming down, that'll look like you're falling as I'm zooming. in because I'm operating the camera and I'm cutting. this in my head. - Yeah. - And I'm saying, just do it again. He's like, what is it? Rock up, and as you go down, it's gonna look like you're falling. - Well done! - Pick up the bullets... - [Lex] Well done! - Okay, now you've caught a bullet, one went in.

Now, second jump. When you do the next jump, as if we just passed those other moments, you've caught a bullet already. So now you're gonna snap it closed and start your turn. That's all you'll get before you hit the pad. Snap, turn. Right? I want the cameras to feel like they're dropping with him. That'll give you more of the sensation. So let's actually lower that steady cam shot. Flip it upside down and get a low angle. See, look at, the Sun's right there. It hasn't gone behind the building yet. That, and in my camera, I lowered my camera down...

- Good angle. - And I got that. - [Lex] Good angle. - Right, okay. Now, last jump. I bury a thin... I said just bring me a thin mattress, because I want him to do all the stunts. I don't want a stunt guy because he does this himself. He just did it in three jumps. But the audience will know, they'll just be like, we believe that this guy can do anything. I want you just to finish by turning and cocking. the hammer back and firing before you hit the ground. I'll give you two takes for that. Almost gets it there. Then we do a second take.

Oh, no, no, that other one was probably. a little better, even though you don't really see it. I've got to go do everything. I got to cut it. I got to add the sound effects myself. I got to put the music in myself. because music guys would just end up filling it. with music and ruin it. Sound effects guys would just fill it full. with sound effects and ruin it. I want all the sound to drop out. So as he's jumping, all you hear is the wind. in his jacket, the clinking of the bullets. as they're bouncing off... So you have this breathless moment, no music, cut the music. That moment, you cut it so that you're like,

I wonder if he's gonna make it, right? So I go home, I cut it. Before I even have the visual effects in, I just cut it that night because I cut my own sound effects. I cut my sound effects in. You can already tell it's going to work. You can already see, even with the bullets not there, you can tell by the sound where they're gonna be. It's gonna work. I call them up and say, dude, this is gonna work great. Then I go to the effects guys and I go, okay, there's the bullet in this frame. The next frame, it's here because I used to animate. In the next frame, it's there. Then it hits the barrel, and then it starts bouncing this way. I want it that clear so we can follow that a bullet.

was supposed to go in and that it bounced way over there. Then this bullet bounced way over there. Then they send it back and a bunch of bullets come down... No, guys, listen to what I said. I'm gonna show you again. I'm gonna draw it to you again. Just... The sound will play like there's multiple bullets flying. I don't need to see all those bullets. or the eye's not gonna know where to go. Then they got it right. - Brilliant. - And then check this out. I'm gonna show it to you twice. because you're not gonna believe it. (gun firing).

- Wow... - Changes direction. - [Lex] Wow. (gun firing). Wow. Well done. - You don't even see that in a feature film, much less a TV show. - [Lex] Well done. Just as a director. Well done. - Oh, thank you. Here, just one more time. I'll show you something you didn't notice both times.

(gun firing). (Lex laughing). - Huh, it's amazing. Just those decisions coming together perfectly, just really well done. - And like this, you got minutes... - Just moving the camera like you decided. to do, really worked really well. The bouncing of the mattress, whatever.

- And it's not like you. have this whole plan figured out ahead. You're, literally, in the moment, it's coming. through you, it's coming through you. - You're seeing it-. - I'm seeing it because I've done it enough. That's why you really wanna learn all those jobs. because it becomes a moment like. this when the shit's fucking in the fan. You got to know how to pull it out. You could have gotten all those people together. and they never would have figured that out. You had one person had to see it all the way through. - You're seeing the bullet, how it's gonna go in the result... - I've done enough times to know. that if you don't do it just right, you're gonna lose the image. You're not gonna know. where to follow and you'll miss the point.

- And also... Yeah, I love that you're thinking about where the eyes. of the audience will go. And that's, I feel like too many people might think. about some more general concept. of a scene versus like the audience... Where's their eyes? - Well, you're drawing it, you're drawing it through sound to picture. I'm gonna show you, if you notice, without the sound, you don't really see him click that thing back. - The sound is so sensory. - Watch this. You don't really... - Right. I thought I saw it.

- You think you saw it, but you hear it, and so you feel like seeing, but watch, it's actually, he's already finished. You don't really see him do it, you know? But you swear you saw it in a close up because the sound. is in a close up. I put the sound in a close up. Now here's another thing you didn't notice. He hits this ground in the first shot. Watch. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. You didn't notice it because I didn't play the sound there. So if you don't hear it, you don't see it. And if you don't see it, but you play a sound, you hear it and you see it in your mind.

Right? So check that out now with the sound. on and you'll see both. those parts play completely different now. (gun firing). Now you hear it. (laughs) Like I know you can get away. with that because I know editing and I like, if I don't play the sound, I can go ahead and milk that shot as long as I want. I'll make him be in the air longer, even though he's actually touching the ground. by not playing the sound. And that comes from, you said directing,

but it's not directing. Like people can direct and say, this is what I want, but to actually execute it, you need to be a craftsman and to be a craftsman, you have to learn all those crafts. - And not just with the visuals, but with the sound. - With the sound too. Sound is so important. Sound is half the picture. Sound is, and if you cut sound, you realize how important sound is. I would learn so much by doing those movies, like "Desperados", action movies, where you go, wow, the sound, I can add an extra sound effect. of an extra punch he didn't even throw. And it sounds like he's beating the shit out of this guy.

And you only need to see one or two hits. and you can hear five. You know... You know where you can push your limits. because you've done it, you've done it and you've got the experience. - It's so amazing that you can use sound to make. a person believe they saw something. that wasn't actually there on the screen. - [Robert] Yeah, your brain fills it in. - That's crazy. - And that's why that's so important, because if you don't know that, you'll be on the set shooting 10 takes of that. Because you're like, no, I didn't see him click it back. I didn't see him click it back. And that's really needed. I can do that with sound. Let's just go.

Let's just keep moving. - When you say sound close up, was that? - All the other sound dropped away. and all you hear (imitates gun clicking) is like the sound, like the mic's right on that thing. so that you hear it so big in your ear. that you swear it was in close up too, but just the sound was close. - How do you, sorry, just to give an insight into that process. of sound design, are you listening to the sound. and just like experiencing the feeling that creates? And then you're like, that's just right. - I'm playing in post a lot.

I have a whole library of sound effects from all my movies. So I can pull up the gun sound we created. for Bruce Willis in "Sin City" and use that and mix it. with Antonio's gun from "Desperados". I remember in "Four Rooms", there's a scene where the Bellhop goes. into the hotel room, jams his key into it and clicks it. I used all gun sounds for the sound of the key instead. of key sounds because it wasn't sound close up enough. So you listen to it, you hear (imitates clicking). you hear like all these sounds from gun. to do the key.

Is it's like that conveys the sound better. I'll use different kinds of sounds that just have impact. and put it somewhere like when he hits the ground or... So I like playing with all that in post. when I'm editing because it makes my editing job easier. Sometimes it's like, oh, the sound is covering me. I don't need to keep trying to massage this. The sound is actually selling it. And so I keep those sound effects into the final movie. It's just all part of necessary. It's like being a chef. They're cooking and you're going like, I know the recipe says this, but I think it really could use jalapenos.

and some extra pepper and maybe a little more salt. And then it needs an acid of some kind, so I'm gonna add some lemon juice. - Yeah, you made me realize, I'm not sure where I saw that, but you were talking about making sort. of almost like home films for fun. And I think you mentioned how exciting you can make. a very mundane scene by just adding sound. - Oh yeah. - I think there was like a... - A little kid in his car. He had one of those little, (imitates car). but I added a motor sound to it and it's like, wow. - It sounds realistic somehow. Like I don't think-. - And then we're playing with these little cars,

filming ourselves playing with the cars. (imitates car). But then I replaced it with real car sounds. (imitates car) And your brain creates the reality. of the real thing... - It's crazy... - You realize how unimportant the visual. is and how important the sound is actually. Sound is everything. That's what I was really lucky in "Mariachi". that my camera didn't work for sound because then. I got really good sound that I would have gotten. with a shitty mic out of frame, because that's the first telltale sign. of a low budget movie is bad sound. Bad sound right away,

you can already hear all this hiss and all this, mic was too far... And you're like, low budget movie, before your eyes even tell you, the sound gives it away. Isn't that amazing? - The audio is first. Sound is first. Really. Even though it's a visual medium. That's so crazy. Just on the, what's the plan. with the with the four action films? Like what are the next steps? - I'll probably direct more than one. because there's already several that I wanna do, but I was gonna direct at least one, but I'm producing all three, all four there at my studio.

- It does draw you in. - It draws you in and it makes you go now think. of ideas you never would have thought of before mainly. because it has a filter. Well, now I don't have to think of all these ideas. I can only... I actually have, like that, like me on that set... There's only very few things I can actually come up. with that are just action driven first when they. have a great character. You'll get to it a lot faster with a filter. That's the beauty of a filter is that now. you've just shrunk your target and now you can hit. that target and people are coming up with ideas.

because now they've got proximity and they've got. a reason to come up. with the idea and they've got a deadline. Which is the best thing you can do. is have a deadline, because when you have a deadline, you can freaking move mountains. You know, I had a "Spy Kids" in the theater every year, three years in a row, not being pre-planned. Every year there was a "Spy Kids". Now the third one was the biggest one, biggest cast, mostly green screen, video game, and the first digital 3D movie ever. So getting visual effects companies to make that, we realized, oh, I shot it with two cameras.

That means each effect shot has to be done twice. from a different angle. So I went to the studio midway. through that and said, there's not gonna be a movie in the theaters in time. You're gonna have to push the date back. And they said, okay, we've never heard you panic. We'll push the date back for you. They called back 10 minutes later. I was like, oh, thank God. Because it's really complicated. I didn't know it was gonna be this complicated, but I wanted a challenge. And they said, McDonald's will sue us for $20 million. if you move the date. You have to have a movie in the theater.

We started shooting that movie in January of 2003. It was in 3D in theaters by July. That's the fastest any effects movie has ever been done. - That's insane. - Because you had no choice. So a deadline makes you do things. and make decisions really quickly. And it was the biggest of the three. Deadlines are good. And it's hard for us to self-impose. a deadline sometimes because we know. it's a bullshit deadline and your brain knows it's bullshit. But why do deadlines work?

Because when the deadline is coming out, what do you do? - (laughs) You start to put the pen to the paper. and it starts just flowing. - You have no choice. You have to get out of the way and open the pipe. And it just comes out. And you're shocked. You're like, oh my God, I should do everything at the last minute. Well, no, you don't have to. But if you just learn how to open that pipe earlier, you wouldn't be in a rush. But you had to get out of your way because your deadline. was up and you had to come up with it. So many people are gonna come up. with all these extra great ideas at the last minute.

They're already... It looks like everyone who's already signing on, because it's cool, they don't know when the deadline is. They keep writing and saying, when is the deadline for this? And we say, well, when we close the funding in May. But we didn't say when still. So I think that gives them a sense. of a deadline like, shit, it might be May 1st or maybe May 2nd, so we better get my idea going. So I think it works in your favor. because then you come up with stuff, and you're gonna feel so enriched by doing the idea. that you're not gonna care if it gets picked or not.

You're gonna love this idea so much, it could turn. into 10 other things you never even thought about. That's the beauty of doing a project. Nothing ever goes to waste. So many ideas that were sitting around that I'd come up. with and put a lot of time in are now like, oh, I can do these now. I know how to finish it now. - I have to ask you about "Alita". So you've done so many incredibly innovative projects. This is one of them. It turned out to be this visual masterpiece. There's a bunch of complexity, beautiful complexity about it in that it started out. as a film that James Cameron was supposed to make.

- Yeah. - And then you started. to collaborate with him on it. And these two, I would say brilliant directors, but with different styles like you were talking about. And so... Plus there's the complexity of, for people who haven't seen it, you're putting this artificial creation, this beautiful photorealistic, artificial creation. of a human being into a real world. So you have to capture the performance, not just. the motion, but the performance of this actor,

put them into this, with the power of technology, into the real world. So convey all the emotion, the richness of the human face. Can you just speak. to the process of bringing that world to life? - Sure. I mean, I never would have attempted if it wasn't Jim? Because Jim has figured all this out. So just to get you, again, remember, like. I said, Hey Jim, I'm operating a steady cam. What do you think of that? Well, I'm designing a new system. That's always how it is between him and I. So when I went to show him "Desperados", when it. was done, he said, you might not wanna sit through, if you don't wanna sit.

through it while I'm watching, it's fine. Do you wanna read any of my scriptments, my treatment scripts, you know, called scriptments? I said, sure. He goes, I have "Spider-Man" and I got "Avatar". So this was in '95, he was showing me the scriptment for "Avatar", which there was no technology for that. He was already doing stuff that didn't exist. And I was reading it going like, it's a great story. He's like, I don't know how the fuck he's gonna do this. It's impossible. He doesn't even... He'd just done "Terminator 2" a few years before.

It's like that was state of the art. So "Alita" was gonna be the movie he did first. to prepare for "Avatar". And so he had already done some prep work on it. It was based on a manga. But before they did that, they just started doing some tests for "Avatar". And then as they got deeper into the test for "Avatar". to prepare for "Alita", they went, I guess we're making "Avatar" first. So "Alita" got kind of pushed to the side. and they ended up doing it, which ended up becoming such a journey to make.

that movie, to get the technology, to build it, to make it. So I remember visiting him on the set. I mean, I've known him so long. I was on the set of "Titanic". That's how long I've been around this guy. I was on the set of "Titanic". I was on the set with Sarah Connor. and Arnold Schwarzenegger and Eddie Furlong. for the 3D ride he made for Universal a few years later. So, I mean, I feel like I've been around him a lot. of his career. And to be able to visit the set of "Avatar". and remember him showing me. like artwork they did, very photorealistic.

And he goes, curious to see how photoreal it'll be. when we're finally done with this process. 'Cause you don't get to see it till it's almost done. And I was like, wow, he's just shooting blind. He's really... Talk about me shooting "Mariachi", not seeing the footage. He's making this whole movie not even knowing. what the end result's going to look like at all. 'Cause you're not gonna know till you get there. And when you get there, if you don't like it, there's not a lot you can do. So I just seen him do. that and have that success really made it easier for me.

to do "Alita". 'Cause then it's like, okay, we don't know. Again, we don't need to know. We know we'll get there, but we don't know how we're gonna do it. We're gonna start. And anything that I would come up with on this movie. and his team, 'cause he had all his Weta people working on it. He had them all working on it too. I do a fast version of his process because there's a lot. of live action. "Avatar" is mostly CG. I have live action sets. You have to come to my studio because I still. have the whole "Alita" city in my back lot. - Well, here, the Troublemaker Studios?

- Yeah. - That's where it was... - Yeah. It was shot here. So when you go see my city, I built it very resourceful. This is weird. It looks just like the town from "Mariachi". It's in my backyard. I'm like, it looks better than the town from "Mariachi". - Yeah. - 90,000... It's the biggest, largest standing set. in the country because sets are always mowed down. for the next movie, but I just kept it there. So we shoot it all the time for Mexico. or South America or Europe or whatever. It's seven streets. And we added digitally above it. The ceilings are 20 feet high. You got to come see.

You don't believe that it's here. It's unbelievable. - Where is it? IT's north of Austin? - It's where the old airport was. So it's like on 51st street. It's like really close to town. - I would love to visit. - You gotta come see. You're not gonna believe it. All my props, all my stuff from all my movies. So people who are investing in Brass Knuckle, that's why I say it's like a Willy Wonka movie. because they're gonna get to come check out all. that stuff and be in proximity and see, oh, like me with that painter. It's not a trick. He's just doing it. Then you realize, you can do it too.

But we thought, let's shoot mostly live action. and we'll just replace her. But we still have to figure her out. You have to cast the right actress. And when I saw Rosa Salazar, she was just amazing. She made me cry in audition for the first time. I was like, oh my God, this person has something. If we can capture even a fourth. of her facial expression, it'll bring so much life... And they got it one-to-one. And it really helped Jim on the next "Avatar", and Weta because they got to try out a bunch of things.

That's why "Avatar", the second "Avatar: The Way of Water". looks so much more refined than the first "Avatar". because of that middle step of doing "Alita". It was training ground for them. - Can you actually educate me on the Weta process? Is this like a performance capture technology? - Yeah, we have her. in a suit before capturing her body movements, but also facial capture. It's a performance capture of all her performance, all her emoting. And we have witness cameras around everywhere to pick up. where she is. And everything else is real. and we're just replacing her,

but with someone even smaller in size, so you have to erase everything behind her. It's like a bunch of technical things you do. But the idea is to whatever performance she gives, she's such a great actress, is to capture all of that because then this character. that doesn't even exist will feel very emotional. and you have to be tied to it. You have to feel its heart. She was the heartbeat of it. - So she's acting with all this... - Acting with all that, but it just disappeared. It's not even there. We don't notice this is here. It's like that. She just performed through it.

- What was some interesting, unique, challenging things about you directing her performance. in this, in this kinda world? - I just... I just knew she had to be her. It was gonna be just so easy with her. She's just so great. Everything was just so real and everything. was just like she's that character, she becomes that character who's seen this world. for the first time. No special effects can help you. with that if the performance isn't there. So it was all about getting the performance and casting. the right actors. That's why you get Christoph Waltz there. and you get Jennifer Connelly.

These masters are all on the set. Mahershala Ali, you've got an amazing cast of people. And that's really the heart of it, so that the technology goes away. - How hard is it to get the actors to act. when the full world is not around you? - We put so much of the world around them. Like when you see the city, we put a blue screen way in the back to just make. the city keep going. But we built the sets there, the town, we built the real set.

so everything was very tangible and real. That way she. had to fit into that world and be as real as that. Because if it was all done in CG, well then now you can fudge everything. But if you put her in a real environment, that's a real challenge. And that really helps them in "Avatar". because that whole place is created an "Avatar". You could get away with a lot, but they wanted to commit to that kind of detail, on the next "Avatar", that's why it just feels like you're really there. It's just stunning. And you get there by having something to work on like. this to take the technology to the next level.

So it was cool to be able to help, you know, knowing that you're being helpful to him in his process. and not just distracting him. But then also he liked that his artist had something else. to work on besides just "Avatar", to just work on something different to freshen up. the perspective on things and methodology. So yeah, that was a really exciting movie to work on. And we got to shoot it here, a Jim Cameron movie here in Austin. That was the best, having him here. My whole crew who's worked with me 25, 30 years,

everyone had an extra spring in their step. They're like, we're working on a Jim Cameron movie! That's just a high bar of achievement. for everybody working on it. - Since we talked about a few other directors, can you speak to the genius of James Cameron? What makes him special? You talked about some. of the difference in your approach in his... He's created some of the most special movies ever also. What's behind that? What would you say is interesting. about the way his creative mind works? - I think any of those guys, George Lucas, him, John Lasseter running a Pixar, it's a mix of...

I got really lucky. My first job was photo shop because my dad had a friend. who owned a photo shop. He said, your summer job, and I was 16, go work for my friend Mario. I go to Mario's photo shop. and I'm developing pictures or, you know, you develop photos from film. He said, here, take this camera home. Give me one of these cameras. Take this camera home and some film. I need you to learn how to use the camera. so you can help me sell the cameras. I went home and I have a bunch of siblings. Well, the stars of "Bedhead",

taking all these pictures of everybody. I take it back and he looks at the pictures... When he develops, he's like, "Whoa, these are really creative. You're a creative person.". So sometimes people tell you something that you don't, you can't unhear. He goes, that's a gift. But you need to know, now, now you need to become technical. because most creative people need technicians, technicians always need creative people. because they're not usually the same. You're born with creativity. It's against your nature to be technical, but you can learn if you apply yourself.

And if you're both technical and creative, you'll be unstoppable. And I was like, unstoppable? Wow... Here, I want you to learn zone photography. I want you to learn the technical part of it. That's why I didn't take a crew in "Mariachi". because I knew if I'm just a creative person and I need. a crew to go actually technically make the movie, I'll always need something. And when you wanna really change your life, you wanna get your. I need list down to as little as possible.

Because if you're like, well, I wanna shoot my movie, but I need a camera man or I need somebody who knows. how to light, your "I need" list keeps growing. That's further and further and further you will be. from what you need to accomplish. So I kinda went down there without any help. So that, remember that script analogy. where the guy said, throw away three scripts? I said, no, I'm gonna write three scripts. and then shoot each one so I get better at each one. of those jobs so I can learn to be technical. My technical capability was so little.

I literally called the guy on the phone, how do I use this camera? You know? That's how little I knew about it, but I knew by doing the job, I would learn. By being both, that's really the key. So Jim Cameron is like that. Jim Cameron, when you think. of those guys, George Lucas, very technical and very creative. John Lasseter, very technical, but very creative, Pixar. Jim Cameron, very technical, very creative. Putting those two things together is really. what sets you apart from other technicians. and other creative people. It's very, very powerful.

A lot of creative people, again, it's against their nature to be technical. They don't wanna do it. Make yourself do it. Read the manuals, take the lessons. It frees you up because then you can go do, like I just showed you in that demo. You're able to now be a technical person and creative, and then you're unstoppable. He's one of the best at it. And he just knows how to craft a story. He's very analytical as well. Like we bounce off each other in a funny way. He goes, man, he came down to visit my studio before. we did "Alita". And he went, "You only surround yourself with people.

who are like you. Like you exude creativity from every pore, and so does everyone at your studio.". And I go, yeah, I didn't hire them that way on purpose. But I think if you're not that way, you don't belong there and you kinda leave. And then I went to his studio and there are a bunch. of Jim Camerons there. They're like, oh my God, they're all very technical. You can't get all kind of fuzzy with the logic or the... You can't get really creative with the physics or anything. They're like, no, that's not how it would work.

It would be like... They're just, wow, super great at what they do. Bar is sky high, and they're all like that. Because yeah, if you're not like that, you can't hang with those guys. You can't hang with him very long. - I heard a story where the guitar case being. a rocket launcher, where to you, you create this real world where everything is possible. The magic feels real. And for James Cameron, he has to know how a guitar case would work. that would actually be able to double as a rocket launcher. - When I show him the trailer for "Grindhouse".

and he sees the machine-gun lady. and all that, he just goes, "Whoa, that's unbridled filmmaking from the id.". It makes sense only the second you're watching it, not a second after, but the second you're watching and you believe it. But he's really interesting in that he's so prolific. I walked into his writing studio and it'd be, like one of the tables. Do you have those papers there? Imagine them that thick, that thick, that thick, all script, script, script. What are these? He goes, this is a whole space opera version of this movie.

We're not making that one. He's just cranking out all this stuff. Again, can I take this and go make this, please? We bounced off each other. because I loved his analytical part of his brain. I'm not that analytical. I'm just like, hey, I'm really creative feeling. I'm like, woo, I'll go this way and then woo, I'll go that way. And he likes that about me. But I like, I wanna be, because I think about things too much. You think about things like what makes a movie. a billion-dollar hit?

What are the elements that you need? And I'm gonna analyze that. and I'm gonna make sure my movie does that. He engineers a submarine that can break the world record. He engineers a movie that can break the world record. You know, he's like, he has that engineering mind, but the creative part, that's very rare. So that's very rare and he's capitalized on both. He had this submarine model like this big on his desk, the one that he broke the world record for going... And just seeing it, and knowing he'd have kids and stuff and a wife... I'm like, weren't you afraid going down there if, you know,

something had happened? "No, I wasn't afraid.". "Why not?". "Because I designed the escape vehicle." (laughs). If it was any other bozo, I'd be afraid, but he designed the escape vehicle. That kind of confidence, that's him. He just knows if some other bozo had designed. the escape vehicle, I would be afraid, but total confidence because, he did it. - The confidence of extreme competence is brilliant. - Just to get you, like, excited about how creative this stuff is.

So, "Desperados" was the only movie. on the Sony lot being edited digitally. Not only was I editing on a computer, I was editing in my house, which in 1994 was just unheard of. So, I'm there in my house and they made me cut in LA. because at first I told the studio, I wanna edit "Desperados" myself because it's important. that I edit it. And they go, no, you can't. Why not? We've never had a director edit his own movie here. So we don't wanna set a precedent. In case they thought it would give you too much power,

This is a power of precedent. I said, well, you bought "Mariachi" and I edited that. So, I said, okay, but you're gonna have to edit in LA so we can watch. because we don't think you know what you're doing. We saw the footage and the shots are really short. It's too short. I was like, shots are too short? Oh, because I was shooting my cuts. They're like... They're used to seeing footage, Antonio walks into the bar and it's gonna be. a dialogue scene. They expect the whole thing done from a wide shot. I would shoot the wide shot, he walks in, cut, move the camera. Let's get over here because I'm not gonna use it. for the rest of the scene.

I know we're gonna get into coverage. because I've already cut it. So, I was like, huh, that's interesting. So, I cut the first scene. Have you ever seen "Desperados"? The first scene is the best scene. Steve Buscemi is telling the story. He's talking about the myth of the "Mariachi". - Oh yeah, it's a great scene. - He's doing it. It's crazy. - Great scene. - So, then they come over. I say, hey, come see my first scene. So, they come over to my house. They watch it. Okay, you know what you're doing. They leave. But I was cutting "Desperados" in my house. that I rented there. And then we shot "Dusk till Dawn" at the same time. So, I was cutting "Desperados", "Four Rooms" and "Dusk till Dawn" myself. I'm the editor. I don't have an editing team other than the ones.

who imported into the machine. So, Del Toro came over. Soderbergh came over. We're gonna borrow it for "Schizopolis". No one had heard of somebody having an Avid. in their living room. Jim comes over and he goes, "Hey, you have an Avid in your living room!". Then I go, "Yeah, come check it out.". I'm just like, I roll out of bed. It's like, it sounds unremarkable. because this is what you do right now. But back in '94, it was unheard of. I'm cutting three movies at the same time myself. I roll out of bed. I come here. I can cut "Desperados". I can cut "Dusk till Dawn".

He went, that's it. I hate working with editors. You know, when I was doing "Terminator 2", they wouldn't even let me put the "Bad to the Bone" song. in "Terminator 2" because they didn't think it would work. And I had to sneak into the edit room at night. on the weekend to cut it in and then show them the next day. It's like, that's your own movie! You can't give that kind of power to people! He said, I hate working with editors. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna tear down a wall in my house. I'm gonna put it in Avid. I'm gonna cut my next movie. And he did. He got an Oscar for editing "Titanic". He had two other editors, but now no one ever took him for a ride like that again. He edits on every movie.

He has other editors, but he can go do his own cuts. When he shows me, like, footage, he's showing me himself on his own machine. It's like... Again, it gives you all those tools to be able. to really find your vision that you're looking for, because you can't always explain it to somebody. because you don't always know yourself. You kind of come up with it as you do the process. - Just a small tangent. about the different software and the technologies involved. So you mentioned Avid, this Premiere Pro... - Premiere was still in its early stages then. I think Soderbergh looked at it and it said, yeah,

I can't afford an Avid for this movie. I'm gonna go do it. I think he started cutting on Premiere, but I'm sure it's all better now. I just have always used an Avid. because I just always ran it back to the same production. I just... I don't have to buy a new one, but there's lots of good stuff. I've heard about all kinds of systems. I just use the same one. - I guess that's the question I have for you. It's just interesting for people, it's very interesting to me, just the details. You use Avid. What do you, like, multiple monitors, one monitor? - I have a couple monitors, and then one big monitor to watch it if I'm watching. the scene back because the monitors are still.

a little wacky. I mean, if I were to design my own system, I'd probably design it differently. But I've literally... I've worked on that thing since '94. I still don't know all the shortcuts and all that shit. I still use it like my tape deck, play, rewind, pause, and I can cut so fast with that. (imitates keys). I don't use the mouse for shortcuts. I'm just like, bam. - So you found your way, preferred way, the workflow of using it, and now you can sort of let go of the technical. and then be creative. - Yeah, just be creative. It's just a tool. It's just a tool. It doesn't matter what system it is.

It's like if you can get it to work for you, great. Like there's a lot of problems I have with it. that I know are probably fixed on another system, but that they'll have a whole other set of problems. It's like, well, why bother with that? You know? There's limitations I think that it has that would need. to be fixed, but not for what I'm doing. I mean, I can still do what I need. - It feels like part of the artistry. is every system has limitations and you learn. how to work around those limitations. I mean, that's, every single thing. - My first VCRs. Like those things... Those things were, I was always known.

for taking little basic equipment and milking. the shit out of it, pushing the boundaries of what it can do. And now it's flipped. Now you're working on a program. and you can spend 10 years on this thing. and you're scratching the surface of what it's capable of. It's totally flipped the other way. I'm not milking anything anymore. I'm barely getting the smallest capability of it. because I would have to spend a lot of time. to figure out all the stuff that it can possibly do. I'm sure it's all great, fantastic stuff, but what a different world than when I grew up where it.

was like, okay, let me. splice these two sound things together... It was so hard to get it to do... People would be like, you got that movie out of that equipment? Where now it's the other way around. You know, it's like all this equipment is great. So when people come to me and say, I've only got this camera... I was like, that camera's 10 times better than anything. I had for my first 15 years of filmmaking. You have no complaints. This is like you can just start now. and just start making stuff. I have a lot of friends who are huge fans of your movies.

So one of them asked me that I absolutely must ask you, do you know if there's a sequel of "Alita" coming? - We're working on it. We're definitely working on it. Jim and I both wanna make it. That's usually when we meet, we talk about it. I gave him something to read. He's a little busy with his Avatar movie, but I'm gonna see him again soon and we'll see. where it's at. But we would love to make another one. We have ideas on how to do it because it was always built. to be a trilogy. and he sees that there's a lot of love for it. It was just weird because it was a Fox movie.

and then got bought by Disney. You know? So they weren't really making Fox movies because they. had enough work with their Disney movies, but now they're starting. to make some Fox movies like they did "Deadpool". and some Fox movies are starting to get made. So the time might be right. for us to come back and do an "Alita". - Well, I hope you do soon. But it is, I mean, you do so many different kinds of movies. That's a whole different kind of puzzle, right? - Yeah. No, but it's not a bad one. It's a cool one. It's one of the few, like usually I made kids,

family kids movies or R-rated action horror movies. And that was the first time I got to do a PG-13 movie, which was kind of like it had a lot of action, but it was for families could watch it too. And it's kind of like best of all worlds. - Have to ask you about "Sin City", one of my favorite films of all time. It was a visually stunning world. What are some maybe interesting detailed aspects. about you creating that world? - This is why you just got to follow your nose. and go do something. Jim and I were both into 3D early on. Like I visited his set for the Terminator 3D ride.

"Dusk till Dawn", I wanted to be 3D. Actually, when they got to the bar, if you watch from that point on, everything's kind of set up for 3D. Everything was shooting into the camera and all this, but the cameras they had for 3D. in film were those old shitty ones that were so bad. that I went, okay, we can't do it. But I really wanted people to have to put on glasses. when they got into the bar and it was gonna turn. into a 3D, different movie. I got to do that on "Spy Kids 3D". So when I did "Spy Kids 3D", I thought, oh, if I get Jim's cameras that he's done.

for these underwater 3D documentaries, I can make the first digital 3D film for theaters. And so I did. It seemed like the easiest way was to utilize. that when you put on the glasses when you go. into a game world. So there's a green screen. We shot all the actors on a green screen for all. the game stuff. We could do a lot of 3D stuff coming at kids' faces. when they're reaching... My 3D is not the kind they have in theaters. where it's very polite. Mine's like theme park 3D, where kids. are doing like that, trying to grab...

That's why it was such a big hit. Nobody does 3D like that. But I wanted that. I want shit falling in people's laps. You know? So you remember, you would go, okay, this is why I'm wearing the glasses. Yeah, I'm wondering why. And when I went to go make my next movie, so this is how crazy this is. We shot "Spy Kids 3D". Remember actually how fast they came out? That was in the summer of 2003. A few months later, "Once Upon a Time in Mexico" came out. Two number one movies, both were finishing trilogies of mine. And each one starred Antonio, Danny Trejo, Cheech Marin.

When I was editing those. at the same time, you'd be like, whoa, one movie they're killing people. The other ones are like. with the kids going like, hey, family! So it was really fun. It was fun to... It's easier to do very different things. than to do like two action movies or two family movies. at the same time. But I was like, okay, what's my next movie gonna be? Oh shit, how crazy is this? Okay, so Antonio is on the set. I'm gonna shoot him out in half a day. for "Spy Kids 3D" because he's only in the last scene, on the green screen. Shoot him to lunch.

Okay, now go away, put on your "Desperados" outfit. because we owed some shots for "Once Upon a Time in Mexico". on the green screen. He finished two trilogies in the same day. That's gotta be a first, if ever, if anyone's ever finished two trilogies in the same day. And it's just kismet. It's just how it happened that day was just luck. or the universe or whatever. But I needed to make it something new now. So I was looking through my bookshelves of inspiration. and I picked up my "Sin City" books, which I've had. I used to be a cartoonist and I always loved. how he drew that.

Every time I'd see a different edition, I'd buy it, go home and go, oh, I already have this. I got like three copies of this already. And it would just always grab me by the throat. And I liked that he was a writer-director in a way, because he not just wrote the comic, but he drew it too. A lot of times it's a different writer. or a different comic artist. He's like a real kinship... This is someone who writes and directs his own thing. But I was looking at it and I went, oh shit, I know how to do this now. I just did it on the green screen. If I shoot this on green screen, the actors. on green screen, I can make. the backgrounds look just like. this and I can contrast up the actors and I could get.

this very graphic look, which sometimes for a window it's just a white box. So it's even got a sliding scale for budget. If I run outta money, just put the actors in black and white, just put like a white dot behind 'em for a streetlight. and that looks just like the book. So I'm gonna bring the book to life. So I'll show you. how fast we go from development at Troublemaker. It was October. "Once Upon a Time in Mexico" had come out. I was like, oh, shit. I know how to do this now.

"Sin City". I'm gonna do a test. I went to my green screen here in my studio. You'll see my green screen where I shot all these movies. And I shot my sister, myself, put it black and white. Looks just like the comic, but it's moving. So I call a comic book artist friend. of mine, Mike Allred, and I said, "Do you have Frank Miller's number?". And he goes, "Yeah, I do.". Okay, I'm gonna call him up. So I call up Frank Miller. Hey, this is Robert Rodriguez. I have a test I'm gonna show you for "Sin City". I'm gonna be in New York tomorrow. He's like, tomorrow?

Okay, yeah, sure. Come by. Meet me at this bar. Okay. Book a flight for New York. I fly up there. I have my laptop just like this. I show him. I go to the bar. I show him what looks like an image from his comic. and it starts moving. And he's like, "Wow, how did you do that?". I say, "I got my own studio and all this...". And then I started telling him, man, let's make this movie. Because no one had the rights to it. He never gave the rights to a studio. A lot of comics, oh, Warner Brothers bought this a while back. You know? Then you gotta go through the studio.

He still owned his own rights. In fact, he'd gotten burned by Hollywood so many times. as a screenwriter that he said, fuck it, I'm gonna go back and draw a comic that's so raw. that can never be made into a movie. So of course I call him, hey, let's make a great movie. So I show him how we can do it. And I go, I know you don't know me. and you're not gonna, you're gonna have to, I have to earn your trust for you to give me your baby. But we can make this right away. And he's like, he's all excited for about two seconds. And then he goes, oh no, then we got to write a script...

And then the studio is gonna have notes... All that shit he's been through before. And I went, it's not like that. I have a whole different setup. I got my own studio in Austin. This is how it's gonna be. If you like this idea, I'm gonna, you're not gonna have to take any risk. Let me take all the risk. I'm gonna go write the script myself next month. It's gonna be unremarkable. because I'm gonna write it right out of your book. I'm gonna just go to, I'm gonna edit three of the stories down. I'm gonna just take stuff out, really. I might add a few things to connect it, but I'll write the script in December of myself, no money involved. Then we'll call some actor friends of mine.

We'll have them come to my green screen. We'll shoot the opening scene as a test, but it's also the opening scene. I'll do the effects myself. I'll do the sound, do the music. I'll do fake credits. We'll watch it together. If you like what you see, we'll make the movie. You give me the rights then. If you don't like it, keep it. It's a short film to show your friends. It's gonna be really cool. He's like, all right. There's nothing on him to do. It's all on me. I write the script in December. January, Josh Hartnett, Marley Shelton come down,

fly Frank in. We're shooting for 10 hours on my green screen. We shoot that opening sequence. - Incredible opening sequence. - Record his voiceover right then. in my little voiceover booth. Marley Shelton comes up. Why did I hire him to kill me? I don't know. Let's go ask Frank. He's right here. Let's go ask Frank. I want to know myself. He tells her. He's like, I want to do this movie. He's already... I tell you, Frank, I used to be a cartoonist. It's the same thing. You're already a director. You're just using a pen instead of a camera.

The performances you get out. of your paper actors are phenomenal. The shots you do are beyond any DP has ever done. The visual look, we've never seen that. I want to just take this and make it move. I just want the comic to move. Any other studio would just go make. it look like any gritty crime movie. They would miss the point. The visual is half of it. I want it to look just like this because it would be. the boldest movie anyone's seen. because that's how it reads when I read the book. It's like, if this was moving, it would be the most phenomenal movie. In fact, I asked him, do you ever feel like directing any of these short ones?

I thought about directing "The Big Fat Kill", maybe the short films. You should come direct that one. You should direct all of them with me. because I'm really copying and writing a book. You should direct it with me. All right, let's go! So then January, okay, so remember, I met him in November. I wrote it in December. January, we shoot the test. Took me a couple weeks to do the effects. He loves it. I make a meeting with Bruce Willis, show it to Bruce Willis. What's so cool about doing that opening scene. is that any actor I show it to now, I show them. the book, which is awesome.

You'd be playing this character. But look at this test. Let me show you the book, what it looked like before I turned this test into a test. He watches it, Josh Hartnett, voiceover, music, titles come on, first name on the screen, Bruce Willis. And I go, hey, look, you're in the credits. You have to do it now. Manifesting it, right? He's like, "Shit, man, this is great. I'm in.". He's in. - Wow... - Go get everyone else from that. It was just easy to get. And we were filming the movie, so February, right?

Building the few little sets we had, like the bar. I told Frank, we don't need to build a bar, but I'm gonna go ahead and build a bar so we have a place. to go have script meetings. Everything else will be green screen. We'll build fake steps and things out of green. So we're doing that, and I'm casting the first one. We're shooting the movie by March, the beginning of March. And I remember because my son was born March 3rd. And I was in LA for his birth. because I was also recording the orchestra for the score. I wrote somehow in the past few months for "Kill Bill 2".

That's how much stuff was going on. - Yeah, yeah... - You know? That's like when you just let it flow, you're just riding the wave. You're not doing any of that. So that's what's, by staying in that urgent, there's always the deadlines are just pushing you. to create stuff. And we shot the movie so fast in record time. Now, not only that, I shot a whole other movie that year. I shot "The Adventures of Sharkboy and Lavagirl". with kids that came out two months after "Sin City".

the next year, within less than a year "Sin City" was out. - You're shooting that in parallel with "Sin City". That's hilarious. - Yeah. Sometimes we'd be shooting with the kids, and in the afternoon, Rutger Hauer would come and some of the Sin City girls. to finish shooting stuff that we needed to film. It was just insane how fast we had to move. I was doing it in my edit. I was editing. I just edited it. And then I would scan the artwork into the computer, and I would edit the storyboards with the sound effects, and I would do the voiceover. I would imitate Mickey, and I would imitate Bruce,

and lay out how fast it was gonna move. And you were like, wow, so now we have a template with the real drawings. and the lighting on how we're gonna do it. It was funny because I can do pretty good. Bruce Willis because I know his career so long. If you're doing his voiceover, and he would hear my guide voice for the timing, he'd be like, "Is that me, or that you? Can't tell." (laughs). That one was me, but just do that. It's like, "Man, it sounds like me.". - First of all, why haven't films like that been made? - Well, it's a very specific look.

because it went into that comic. The first piece of music I wrote. for that was the main title, and I called it "Descent.". I wanted the notes to descend. because it felt like you were descending. into this dark world, and you don't come out to the end of the movie. You're just in this world where all these layers. of unreality, like water doesn't photograph that way, snow doesn't, but it's there, and you're seeing it, and you're seeing the actors. So you're just really, it's like a dream world. So I was really into it, and I did tests for the most difficult shots first. How do I get his tape to glow in the dark like.

in the comics, but still in the shadow? And I realized, oh, use fluorescent tape and a fluorescent light. That way I can keep it. We can still key it. I started just doing my own visual effects like. that early on because I knew technology was changing. so fast that. I would need to just know how to do it like a magician. Shooting digital, nobody wanted to touch digital back then. DPs were all afraid of digital. They didn't wanna have to learn something new. So I had to DP it. So me photographing it, I'm like, so funny to cut. because I mean, to light,

you have to have that light out of frame right now. But I could bring the lights in right here as long. as it was, they're not crossing it... I'm just gonna take it out of the green anyways. I could have the coolest light on everybody, cool edge lights... You can have an edge light back here, an edge light back here, a fill light here. You're not even gonna erase them. I just take him out. - Can you educate me and people curious about this, like what was the power of light when you're telling. a story, when you're creating a feeling, an experience? Like, what's the artistry of that? - Well, if you look at the drawings too,

sometimes it's the absence of light. Like you would see this face, but then this would be completely black, but you would still see my eye, which is like impossible. Right? But you believe it when you see it because it's there. So things like that were a lot of the tricks. I tried first because I liked that about it. It's like you have a guy completely backlit, so there's no light on his face, but yet his glasses are glowing white. So we'd put fluorescent tape in there, hit that with a light, then we could turn it white later. The black and white really helps. And then just upping the contrast. But I mean, it's just something that you. have a feeling for, but you're able to try it.

In fact, when I took it to George Lucas, who, George Lucas said this to me early. on because we're the only guys shooting digital. He said, man, it's so good you live in Austin. That's why I'm in Marin County. Because when you live outside of this box. of LA, Hollywood, you think outside. of the box automatically. You're just gonna stumble upon innovations. And he was right. It was like, well, yeah, why aren't we shooting digital? Let's shoot digital. Why aren't we shooting digital 3D? Let's do that. Why don't we just use green screen for the background? You just start innovating because you're away.

from anyone saying, hey, you can't do it that way, which they would say if I was in LA. So we just came up with a whole other method. So I took him "Sin City" to check out, the first thing I was gonna show at Comic-Con. He said, now this will really show people what digital. is capable of. This really shows how avant garde you can get. with that shit, that you could never have done that on film. You know? And so by me versing myself in that technology early, I was able to make a movie like that, and then everyone had to play catch up. You know? So you should always just follow your...

That's why some people say don't use those curtains. That's not gonna work. Just blow past those guys. Go innovate your own thing. 'Cause sometimes not knowing is better. You know, being too naive to, like, don't you know you shouldn't have been able to make. that movie that way? People would say like that all the time, how did you make "El Mariachi" for $7,000? You know, it's impossible. It's like, why do you keep using that word? Because it can't be impossible if I did it. because I'm not that smart. And it's like saying, how did you get to the top of Mount Everest?

It's impossible. Well, I just kept walking. I didn't realize, it was kind of at a slope, I didn't really realize it was going up that high. - Yeah. You've talked about like a big part of your approach. to filmmaking to life is manifesting. Manifesting the reality you want. In fact, I should sort of comment... And I would love to ask you about manifesting. But like... You asked me at the beginning of this conversation, do you consider yourself a creative person? I should sort of reflect. on that because I was very uncomfortable answering that. - Yeah. I noticed a little bit.

And I was like, I'm gonna free you up. so that you're never uncomfortable again. - It's scary to say that about yourself. To sort allow yourself... - There's a lot of people that go, well, you're not an artist. You're not a creative person. But I'm not saying I'm an artist. I'm saying I'm a creative person. But that's an artist too, isn't it? An artist isn't necessarily a guy. with the French mustache and the funny hat. That's not necessarily what an artist is. Artists are regular people. And regular people relate to art that's imperfect. If you can make art that's perfect, no one will relate to it. So when you think about it like that, you go, well, I can make imperfect art. So yeah, I am an artist.

And if you have doubt, you're an artist. That's an artist. Real artists always wonder if they're good enough. So you are an artist. Just by the fact that you. had uncomfortable saying it, you're a real artist. - Yeah. And there's some degree, I don't know if you could speak to this, but there's a fear of creating shitty things. You know, I've created a lot of really shitty things. in my life. And it always feels like that's really important to do... - Okay. But you're judging something that you. have no business judging.

- Right. - Like I have. so many people... That's why I like making movies on purpose. that have less money and less time. On purpose. Like the biggest movie I said of all time on Netflix. is "We Can Be Heroes". I told them I don't want to spend more than $50 million. I know you all wanna give me 80. But I wanna be a hero and come in at 50 because one, it'll make it better. And then two, you'll make three of them instead of just one. I don't wanna just go spend the farm. And not many filmmakers will do that. Don't try to get as much money as they can. But when you're spending less, it's a win-win situation. And you have more creative freedom.

because they're gonna leave you alone. You can do whatever you want. So I like the creative limitations that come. from less money. That's why I like Brass Knuckle Films. We're gonna make them for less so that they are better. Not to make them shitty. So many people have come up to me and said, you know what part I love in your movie? And they'll tell me some scene. And I'm like, oh, well that's because we ran out of sun. And we had to do that jump with just him jumping. on a pad three times or whatever it is. It's something that you fumbled together. And that's what they're drawn to.

They're drawn to that imperfect thing. And so I wouldn't judge it because somebody's, you know, if you called your movie shitty, that's like John Carpenter saying, yeah, nobody liked "The Thing", and it's a shitty movie and everyone hated it. so it must not be good. And then 10 years later, it's a masterpiece. So don't judge it because words we use on ourselves. are very powerful. So if you say, well, I'm kind of an artist sometimes. I make a lot of shitty stuff. Well, that's gonna be your lot in life.

I'm in pretty good shape for a director. It's not because I'm operating the camera, because I work out. Right? But I always hated working out. I was not into sports. I was a filmmaker. I was a cartoonist. In high school I was really tall. They would say, come be in our team. We need... It's a small school. We need you. And I don't know how to play any of these things. I'm an artist. There's a line in the faculty that was my line. to my coaches. When they would say, you gotta come run with everybody. I would say, I don't think. a person should run unless he's being chased.

I gave that to the... - That's a good line. - To the Elijah Wood character, because that's the guy I identified with. He's there with his camera. And that was me. So I hated it. And then because I was a cartoonist, you know, drawing like this for hours, four hours, my back would go out, like out for a month. It would just go out from being so tall and crunched over. And then when I started making movies, operating the camera and doing steady cam, every year would go out. to where I would need cortisone shots to get up again. if I'm filming or just be out for a month. And on "Spy Kids 2", Ricardo Montalbán had bad back surgery that went wrong.

and he was in a wheelchair. So he's in a wheelchair and I'm in a walker. And he's like, I'm 84. What's your excuse? And I was like, I don't know. I just was operating steady... He goes, "You have to work out, Robert. You have to work out.". And I was like, yeah, okay. I know, I know. And so then I thought, okay, next year I'm working. with Stallone, ask Stallone, ask Stallone. How do you get in shape? Because I need to get in shape. My back's always going out. He goes, get the trainer. Anyone who you ever saw in Hollywood got in shape,

they had a trainer. I say, even you? Anybody. Oh, I need a trainer. He has a trainer. He's like, oh no, I need a trainer. I can't train. It's like, well, shit, if you can't even train. on your own, then what do us mortal men have? So I got a trainer, and guess what happened? Hated it. I would feel sick when he's coming. over because I hate working out. And then some years of doing that, I just, I can't stand it. But I know it's good for my health. So the desire's there. So if you can't accomplish something in your life, it's not a lack of desire. Like if you wanna be more creative, it's not a lack of desire.

It's lack of identity. Like the fact that you were comfortable. about saying creative, it's because there's a lack. of identity there. You have lots of desire. You got to get the identity up and then suddenly. you're making shit. So a friend of mine from Mexico, she comes over, "I have to stop smoking. My doctor said I have to stop smoking for my health. So I'm not smoking right now.". So... "I've been smoking since I was eight years old.". I said, well, you're gonna go back to smoking, 'cause you just told me your identity is a smoker. So right now you're a smoker who's not smoking.

What's gonna happen eventually? You have to say I'm a non-smoker. You know, like just that lesson I've forgotten. You have to say I'm a non-smoker. I'm a non-smoker. What does a non-smoker do? If you believe you're a non-smoker, you hate smoke. Start choking at the smell of smoke. "Okay. I'll try that.". She walks off and I go, shit, I forgot about my own... I wonder where in my life I could apply that. Working out. Of course. My God, I hate working out. No wonder I am so miserable. I'll tell my trainer and anyone who will listen,

I can't stand working out. I don't understand sports. So that day I said, I'm an athlete. I'm an athlete. That's the last thing I would ever call myself all. through my entire life. This was 2012. I'm an athlete. By the next day, not only did my life completely change, and it's easier if it's opposite day. Like if you're just doing it by degrees, that's bullshit. You've got to go complete opposite. Because if there's like a donut, you know, if you say, well, I'm gonna eat only half of it,

you've got to go, no, I'm gonna get an apple. Opposite day is much easier. Not only did I change my life working out, I never needed a trainer. I have not had a trainer since all those years. Because I'm an athlete. I'll just do it. What does an athlete do? An athlete loves working out. An athlete will make time to work out and they'll eat right. I would never be the person that would call themselves. an athlete, but that's how much it can change your life. by changing your identity. So if you wanna be more creative,

you've already got that in your, that desire. You've got enough of that. You don't need more desire. You need more identity. So you got to say, I'm a creative person, with a straight face. - With a straight face. - So when I say, hey, are you gonna be, are you a creative person? You go, yeah. Because then if you say that, what do you do? You're gonna do more creative stuff. Because that's what a creative person does. - It doesn't make sense to me. how manifesting works, but it does seem to work. Like basically visualizing, visualizing a path towards. a certain kind of future. I guess everything around you, everything within you kind of makes way for that,

makes way for the possibility of that. It's weird. - It's weird, but it kind of, it's a kind of a nice to know that you can do that, but you have to just have that conviction and just say... Start with a label. - Yeah. The R, yeah. - The Double R. or the label you just gave yourself. Like I changed my label. My label was, I hate working out. - I'm an athlete. - I'm an athlete. I'm not a non-athlete anymore. I'm changing my label. And you get so inspired because now you know. what to do because you can't help but conform. to your identity. You're always gonna conform to your identity.

So just change your identity and you'll change your life. But, and it's not that hard. I didn't have to go get hypnotized or anything. It was literally, I just told myself, if I could do that, go from a guy. who doesn't wanna work out, hates it, hates it. I had the desire. I was already hiring the guy. I lacked the identity. As soon as I changed my identity, boom. - Well, one of the things for me like. that is probably music, just playing guitar. - Are you a musician? - Yeah, I'm a... (laughs). - Look at you stop. He paused. - I would definitely not... I mean, I'm going along with it now,

but if we're, honestly, if we're just in the-. - [Robert] You wouldn't have said that? - I wouldn't have said that. - But I heard you rip on fucking guitar. - And I've heard you play it kinda amazing. in all different kinds of contexts. - Oh, but I should be like freaking Santana. by now because I've had a guitar in my hands since. I was a kid. But since I'm not a full-time musician, I don't get to play it that often. So I'm not as good as I should be. But, you know, when you apply yourself. to just rehearse for, you know, a couple of shows, you book some shows... Look at this... This is me just like playing our first arena show opening.

for George Lopez. That was crazy to be on the stages where your heroes. that you saw them, now you're seeing what their point of view was. It blows your mind. You need to get on stage. You get on stage once and you'll see that it's not as bad. as you think. - You're not like terrified, because you're playing pretty complicated things. I've seen you play live. - Yeah. And I mess up a bunch of times, but you don't wanna focus on that. And you just go like, okay, I got it through it. Because when you're up there, it's not that you're like screaming nervous, but your hands just won't work anymore. Something will happen. But that happens to everybody.

If you really watch even the best. in their live performances, watch really close. And you see they screw up a couple things, but you just won't notice. They just go right through it. It's about the live performance, and that's how you know it's real. So I think if you can really just lean into it more, really work on the identity part, because you've got the desire. You wanna play guitar. But as soon as you say, yeah, but I can't play live, you just chopped off your leg at the start of the race. You say, I don't know, you just chopped off your leg...

You're doing this to yourself. You're literally doing this to yourself. I mean, not just you. I mean, anybody who just like, who pauses, who hesitates, you don't have to have doubts. Why would you have a doubt? Because you know the process now. It's like, if I don't know how to do something, I know how to figure it out. I didn't know how I was gonna do that scene. with him jumping and flipping. I didn't know that, but do I have doubt that I'm gonna go in there. and be able to do it? If you say that you do, now you're a doubtful person. That's how powerful that is.

But if you say, no, I don't have any doubt because I know. I'm gonna figure it out when I get there, somehow it'll fall in my lap. I trust the process. You don't have to... You don't have to know. So if you trust the process, then you'll figure it out. - But here's the thing, sometimes you fail and there's audience... - Yeah. Then you get "Four Rooms". Yeah. - Yeah. - And then what happens? And then what happens? - Right. Don't blink. - Don't blink. And then you go sift through the failure... - Yeah, exactly. - And you go, wait a minute, what did I get out of that? - [Lex] I've done that a bunch. It was great. - What's the worst that can happen? You go on a stage and you bomb.

It's not gonna be the first stage. And it's one of those you can talk. about so that when you do the next one, and it all... Sometimes they all go right. I've had a couple of shows. We did a couple of shows. where we had video cameras set up for the second day. Listen, let's not film the first day. because we're gonna be just finding our feet. Let's film the second day. First day, it was fucking flawless. Flawless because no cameras... It's like you just go. Second day, we were into it as we had just done it. It felt like the second take, you know,

just didn't have the magic. And that's the one that's recorded. And we're like, oh, kicking ourselves we didn't film both nights. We should have filmed both nights. - I love how much of a mess. this human existence life is. - Yeah. - You've talked about the importance. of journaling because living is reliving. - Reliving. - I love that phrase. - I came up with that because it's like, wow, I see so many people who get it after you for like filming. a concert and they go, live in the moment! I'm like, dude, it's counter intuitive.

The moment goes by like this. We're not gonna remember any of this. The fact that we taped it, thank God, because later on, it's gonna be a file photo of me remembering you. Three pound me computer. All I'm gonna have is a file photo of you maybe. in a suit and you picturing me in maybe a black t-shirt. and the metadata narrative is gonna say, had a great talk about, if we remember, creativity, you know, like the brain doesn't remember. But when I pull up old home movies, like show my kids that I just found and they're like,

they don't remember it... I don't remember filming it. And it's like new adventures of... It becomes iconic and it sticks in her head. And all their jokes are based on old things that we used. to do and say, so relive, living is reliving. So keeping a journal is very important because I found. that anything that passed 15 years on, it's like I'm reading someone else's journal. I'm like, I didn't even know that's where I got that guitar. I thought I bought that guitar. It was given to me? It's like a $10,000 Santana. It was given to me my birthday by the studio. that I made that movie? How could I not remember that? It's like crazy what you don't remember.

And it's the brain is very, it's not a very reliable computer. It's made out of fucking butter. - That's a really profound idea that so much. of our life is lived through replaying our memories. And then watching stuff is one of the ways to sort. of refresh, give some more texture and details... - It makes it iconic. It makes it iconic in your life and part of your life. Otherwise it just went by. It went by. Like I'll ask people, we just had a really...

What did we do last week? What did we do last Wednesday? And they're like, oh, blah, blah, blah. I can tell you because I wrote it down, but I'm not gonna remember. And then when you see, when you go. through your journal, like I go back and I find, wow, life changing thing happened Friday. Another life changing thing, I didn't know. at the time, until now I know. that that really sent me on, happened Saturday and another big. freaking thing happened on Sunday. Like they come in threes sometimes... You start being able to predict the future a little bit. 'Cause you see the patterns and it's pretty wild.

to do that. And I swear. I've talked to people, big group of people, 500 people. How many people here journal? Two hands, three hands. I couldn't believe it. It's like, man, you guys, if there's anything I'm gonna impart on you is journaling. Your life is way more interesting than you think, because it's not going to feel like anything. while it's going by. But in retrospect, you look back... Like I can just go through, I keep a journal one file per year. So I started a new one in 2025. If I'm gonna look up, like I'm gonna do a director's chair episode.

I look up Michael Mann, Michael Mann, Michael Mann, all the conversations we had since '94 that I wrote down. that I felt, and it's like, Oh my God, I can't believe we said that. That's how I knew about that thing with Quentin. I had forgotten about that story. with Quentin saying, ah, "Pulp Fiction". I'd forgotten that because from the moment I asked him. that question to the success at Cannes was very quick. So it was a lost moment in time. where I had it recorded down to the time, down to the hour, when I asked him that question, he thought it wasn't, he didn't think that was the one for him.

- Yeah and there's a, I don't know, when it's private journaling, there's an honesty, there's an innocence that about like the dreams you. have about the future, the conceptions you have about the future. I mean, that's what... This thing is journaling. It's a journal. - [Robert] It's just a journal. It's like... - But the profundity comes out of it. - It's crazy. Yeah. So much I figured out, then I'm talking like a professor by the end of that. People come up to me. and they're asking me all these questions about stuff. I wrote in there. And I'm like, I wrote that in that book? Shit, I was smart back then. What happened? (laughs) I don't remember half of that.

But I think it's the same thing, when you go to teach someone, your mouth opens and stuff comes out. I'm always taping myself when I go to give a talk. because that's also the pipe working. Someone else is talking to you sometimes. So the act of sharing, that's why I've always liked to share information. because the feedback loop is insane. Like me inspiring D.J. to go write, he writes the script. in three days, comes back, tells me, now I'm doing that method. And it's like, wow, people come back with their version.

And I love telling my kids stuff that I learned. that I wish I could tell myself, but I can't take a time machine. Closest thing is telling your kid. because then they can take that information and process it. So many times they've come back and said, wow, dad, that lesson you taught us about this, it's really become big in our minds. Yeah, what was that? And they tell me, I'm like, I never told you that. They say, yeah, you told us. Well, I told you maybe 10% of that. All the rest you added. Oh yeah, well, we embellished it over. They turned it into something else.

And it's like, wow, that's so cool. But yeah, that thing about reliving, like that was one of my favorite ones is just, yeah, my mom turning 75 and not wanting to do anything. for her 75th birthday. I said, why not? She goes, the whole family's gonna, we have 10 kids. They're all gonna want to do something. for their 75th birthday. Nothing can top my 65th. It was like, what are we doing your 65th? I didn't remember even. I'm the one who orchestrated it at all. She goes, "Oh, you flew everyone in from all. over the country. You gave me a car...". I gotta have a journal of that.

So I'm sure I have video. I go back 10 years. I see what tape I had it on, find the tape, pop. the tape in, forgot about all this stuff. So I cut together a 10 minute version of it, showed it at her 75th birthday, just watching the old one. Everybody was like, oh my God, look how young everybody was like, how small the nieces and nephew were... She starts bawling as soon as she gets the key, the gift of the key in the video, because she realizes now what it's gonna mean, that she's gonna get this car.

So it's like, wow, let's just play the old tapes. We don't even have to do anything anymore. We banked so much amazing stuff. that we've all forgotten. that my kids just love watching their old home movies. They hardly remember any of it, but even a VHS to them is virtual reality. because compared to our memories, it is virtual reality. They're leaning into the screen to see what's around. the corner and they're remembering the place. and the sounds... And they say, oh, we left the living room.

It's like, we're there. It's like, wow. I was always afraid they would see this old footage. and go, ah, dog shit. What kind of camera was that? It's the limitations of, you put up one of those files on your screen, it's like this big on your laptop now. That's how low res shit was back then. But that didn't matter. It's like, compared to our memories, that stuff, living is reliving. Pull up that, shoot as much as you can, take as many pictures, but write the journal because you'll have a picture, you're not gonna know what it's from. Even 10 years from now,

you wanna know what that picture is from. You read the diary, you go, oh, that's what that is. Oh my God, you can piece together all these things. that are important to you or that become more important. with time, actually. And you know what's important later compared. to what's happening at the time. - To add on top of that, so journaling is the kind of raw or like home films. is a raw projection of what's going on in the moment. I think it's also really powerful because I've done that. Is to do a high effort description of where your life. is for you, just for yourself. So sometimes journaling is like low effort.

- Yeah. Sometimes it's just, I just wanna mark. that we had this conversation, I had to go do something at five. I did that, met somebody that I know, last night, I met somebody that's gonna be life changing. I'm gonna write a little bit more on that, 'cause I could just, now I know, but I'm gonna just record it so later if I look it up... - So one of the cool things you could do is, you know, like for example, somebody, Jamie, Mr. Beast does these videos, which are great. I think it's a great exercise to do. for yourself, which is a video he records for himself. that he doesn't look at.

to be published 20 years from now. This is a message to myself 20 years from now, here's where I hope you end up. You're basically a younger version of yourself speaking. to an older version. - Yeah. - And then you get, you know, time flies and like you get to a point. where it's like, holy shit, it has been 10 years, it has been 20 years. You get to listen to a younger version of yourself. Like you, it would've been hilarious. if you shot videos like that to yourself, 'cause of just like the incredible journey your career. has been on. And just to think about that, like the delta, the difference.

between what your dreams were, where you ended up... Usually you outdo yourself in many ways. Sometimes your life goes in a totally different trajectory. And the result is kind of funny. It's a nice illustration of the nonlinearity of life. - I would film stuff I got with my kids. I couldn't do it, but I would film my kids saying, hey, turn to the camera now and say, hey, Rebel, it's me, Rebel. I'm gonna be Rebel in the future.

- So you have shots like that? - Yeah. And then they show them like that 10 years later. and they're like, whoa. To see it talking to them and saying... And I would do this thing. where I would film them watching it and then pan off. So that 10 years later I could get, hey, Rebel, him reacting, pan off to the new Rebel watching it. It's just like keeps going. So I have one like that where it just keeps panning. and they're watching themselves within the movie, within the movie, within the movie. It's like an ongoing project.

It's just so fun to just play with memory. and make you realize how fast time moves and to go... They go like, I kind of remember that, but I don't remember being that tiny when I had that memory. It's like wild how time moves. And it makes them feel much more precious. about how quick time moves. and how important every little moment is because you see. the fragility of it too. You know? - Does it make you sad? Does it break your heart that the number of memories.

we get to create is finite? That this life ends? Eventually the story is over? - I had this theory, I'm gonna put this in a movie, I don't think I've ever seen this before. because I woke up from a dream and it was like trying. to remember it. You're like, God, it's so real. If you don't write it down right away, it kind of fades away. But while you're dreaming it, it's really real. It's like, I almost see the walls... By the time I went to go tell somebody, it's like, shit,

I forgot most of it. But I wonder if that's what it's like when you wake up. in your consciousness after you die. You wake up in your next consciousness, getting ready to move into whatever your next body is. You're like, wow, I was a filmmaker, had five kids? And... Oh well, I'm gonna be a fish now. It's like... It's like a dream. It's like that, gone that quick. That's what past lives are. They're like distant memories, like a dream that's faded away. That's why you barely feel remnants of it.

Do I feel sad about it? When I tell people, they flip out when I tell them that. Like I say, I want a character to be like that. Like he's dying. He's like, I don't wanna forget this dream. Don't let me wake up! Don't let me wake up! - But you forget, especially the moment you try to tell somebody. You tell the next fish over. - Yeah, the next fish. It'll be a fish next. But yeah, yeah, it'd be like, it feels like I'm almost sad about it, but then it just makes you even more double down. to be precious about the life you're in now. And record it, record it. - What do you think is the meaning.

of this whole thing, of life? Why are we here? - I mean, I really feel like... My kids and I were just talking about this last night. We were just blown away. We did this Asterian Astrology thing, which is the oldest form of astrology. It just nails each person. And it's like... I dunno. 'Cause when you have a kid, you realize right away, this isn't my kid, this is not my... I'm just in charge of him. It's a completely different soul. He's a different soul that ended up in my hands. It's not...

There's physical characteristics that get passed. on because of just how biology works. Even sometimes posture and movement is the same, but the actual person is somebody else. All my kids, I have five kids and I have nine brothers. and sisters, they're all different. And you realize, we made a pact in a past life. to gather together. 'Cause every time it's like so good you were born. in this family because you were given free reign. to go find who you're really supposed to be. and you find out everyone is doing.

what they were supposed to be doing. It's cool. Almost like this clarity you get by just saying it. They now know that they were always supposed to be like. this creative person. Now they can double down on it because they know. that's who they were supposed to be. They don't have to have any doubt anymore. Don't have to wonder, well, am I supposed to be more business-minded. or can I be creative? Isn't that some kind of frivolous? Is that a real job? Can I do that? Now they realize, no, you're supposed to be doing that for these, these, these reasons and now they can double down. You can skip all that and just decide,

I feel like I wanna be that person. so I'm just gonna declare I am that person. As soon as you say it, you are that. And tomorrow your activities will conform to that. That's how powerful that decision is. So when you walk out of here, it's gonna be with a complete commitment, I'm a technical and creative person, like my first boss. I'm unstoppable. Because my boss told me that and he was right. (laughs).

I became technical and creative and you're just unstoppable. You can just keep going and just go, I'm unstoppable. That doesn't mean you're gonna use your powers for bad, but you've just changed your life by just declaring that. And I'm also a creative person. who lives his life creatively. I'm gonna find creative ways to use that technology. If somebody says, you're not the same kind of artist. I was expecting, that's their own opinion. Don't blink. Just keep going. You know? All these things that you've learned. that people were supposed to tell you along the way,

they're telling you for a reason. Anytime you got pushed, like if you go back to your life. at your really critical moments in your life. where you went that way instead of that way, there was probably somebody there who said something. to you that kind of pushed you. There was one guy, when I was in high school, it was like senior year, I wrote a paper. And I wasn't a great writer at all. I wrote a paper for a Latin American studies class, gave it to the teacher. And he said, wow, you're gonna be rich and famous in four years,

based on what I read. I was like, really? It's like I'm 17 or 18. Four years later, I'd done "Mariachi" and I went. to him later at a reunion and I said, you called it. You said I was gonna be... Why did you say that? And he's like, "I said that? I never said that.". He looked like he would never say that to somebody. You think he would own it and say, oh yeah, I knew and I told you, no, he was like, he looked like he didn't even know who I was. I feel like he never would have said. that in a million years.

So again, sometimes things come out of our mouth. that's not us, that comes through us. So if you think of it that way, why are we here? We're here for a reason. We're gonna get nudged along, listen to the signs, own who you're supposed to be because you are that person. Don't let your human doubt get in the way. That's like the guy closing the pipe. I don't know if I'm really creative. I don't know if I'm really a businessman. And you're just closing the pipe. You're not gonna let it flow. Just be a good pipe. Just say, I just wanna be a good pipe. Clean, open. And then that's when the magic happens.

- And no matter what, don't blink. - Don't blink. No matter how many... That dude was getting so much shit thrown at him, I wish you knew that time period. because then you would go like, yeah, that's right. It was unbelievable. I can't even convey. There was no internet and stuff back then. This was like literal press, reviews, public... It was like, why are they targeting this guy? They just did not like, he just had unprecedented success. and was a really great guy and was making amazing shit. So it was the triple threat of make people jealous.

You know? (laughs). - Well, he's one of the great artists of all time. So are you. It's a huge honor to talk to you. Thank you for everything you're doing in the world, for creating the world and for inspiring millions. of people to also be creators in the world. and for your new project that's bringing people in. Robert, as I told you, I'm a huge fan. - I appreciate that. - It's a huge honor. to talk to you. - So great talking with you. Great questions. You're gonna change your life. - Thank you, Robert. Million dollars. - [Robert] Yeah, right there.

- Thank you for listening. to this conversation with Robert Rodriguez. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now let me leave you with some words. from Alfred Hitchcock. In feature films, the director is God. In documentary films, God is the director. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.