Devon Larratt: Arm Wrestling | Lex Fridman Podcast #265

i get so passionate about it i get so. angry you know because there's this. saying like oh can you beat him in a. hook can you be man. win. win. that's it just win and don't talk to me. about anything else you believe. the match is finished and i wonder if. that gets in the head of the other. person you see this yeah. quit. the following is a conversation with. devon larret. ben many to be one of the greatest arm.

wrestlers in history. this is a lex friedman podcast to. support it please check out our sponsors. in the description and now dear friends. here's devin. larrit. you are considered to be one of the. greatest arm wrestlers in history plus. are one of the most charismatic and uh. fun people to watch in arm wrestling but. let me first start with the ridiculous. the controversial opinion. i actually really enjoy over the top the.

movie with uh sylvester stallone where. he's a trucker. it's like a father-son movie. it's uh you know like a bunch of sports. have the definitive movies unboxing has. rocky maybe folk style collegiate. wrestling has uh vision quest. um what else is there billiards says. color of money yeah this is. uh the sort of movie for arm wrestling. so what did over the top get right what. did he get wrong about arm wrestling.

that was actually based off of a real. story a lot of people don't know that. now the over the top movie. i mean to a certain degree. that's actually real life like that. tournament over the top was real. yeah it was literally named over the top. yes yes there was a trucker division and. the guy actually won a truck for real. his name is john berzing you know who. that is right so the actual over-the-top. tournament the trucker division was won. by john who is john bozenk he he is a. lot of people talk about him.

as like a legend and uh one of if not. the greatest arm wrestlers of all time. john brzenk is. every. arm wrestler's. father to a certain degree. all of us um. the entire sport looks up to him. uh he. it's incredible what he's done i mean at. 18 he won over the top. at 57. he just competed with me a couple months. ago. still at the world level 18 that's 40.

years of being at the top of the sport. it's incredible uh he's hailed as the. greatest of all time in the sport arm. wrestling um yeah and he doesn't he's. beating some monsters oh yeah yeah and. he doesn't. i mean when you talk about like the uh. the evolution of the sport. he's responsible for so much of it like. when you talk about like a lot of times.

when you go back like 20 years 30 years. a lot of us looked at arm wrestling. i think it's i mean. as something you could kind of do. and he's the first guy who's like if you. want to get better at arm wrestling you. got arm wrestle. and it seems so simple. but. you know he answered so many questions. that all of us had about techniques in. the sport. uh back you know pre. pre-video internet. um. yeah he's everybody he's been. everybody's target for like 40 years so.

in terms of strength there's a power in. terms of skill what did he teach the. sport of arm wrestling so if you look. how did the sport change from 80s 90s to. uh the arts. you were at the top of the world for. many years you know um. i many argue you're still at the very. top of the world but like you were very. dominant both left and right hand in uh. i don't know 2008 to. 2013 something like that yeah um so how. does that sport evolve to today so.

it's hard for me to comment you know. prior to. you know when i came to the sport was. kind of mid-90s like i've been arm. wrestling my whole life but. uh i wasn't really involved in the sport. to a a major degree until probably you. know mid 90s. but i'll say that. before the mid-90s. it was really hard to get good at arm. wrestling very difficult. um everybody was doing it wrong really.

like it was really rare to find people. who were technically good arm wrestlers. it was very underground you know when i. when i got into sport it was a flyer. that came in the mail. you had to know somebody who knew. somebody who knew somebody. and then you go to a club and you can't. do anything with these people. and. and they'll and they knew how to arm. wrestle they did but real masters were. rare and. you know then internet internet helped. everybody.

communication. uh the transfer of knowledge became so. much faster. people became technically. you know invested. people started training sharing sharing. ideas. by i'd say. two thousand and. well probably around the turn of the. millennia. i'd say that professional leagues. started to slowly pick up. more organized. bigger productions started attract more.

athletes. more people took it seriously. by 2010. i'd say there was another jump. um. more serious leagues a little bit more. money. by 2015. more major media like people were. investing a lot of money like uh. you know millionaires billionaires type. of people were organizing events setting. up leagues. and uh yeah i mean the past five years. it's just blown up uh the techniques i.

mean if if i was to go back to when i. started uh you know what what took me 10. or 15 years to learn i mean new guys are. showing up and they've got it down in. like a year yeah yeah. well the thing about it the development. of the sport is it's. like i was telling you off mike. it's a battle. of. one. versus one yeah and then that can turn. into battle of nations which you know.

there is. there's canada there's the united states. there's all the eastern. europe. russia georgia all of that that. that's what makes some of the greatest. sports and olympics great like. weightlifting it's a battle of nations. not just the battle of individuals and. it's almost like these two humans. represent the two nations and i see that. very much we'll talk about your matches. coming up but there is. um that battle between north america and. that other part of the world yeah yeah.

north america is very prized. you know the north american champion is. always highly sought after because. they're typically the most famous. even still when. you know quite arguably there's always. somebody in eastern europe who's just. monstrous. uh it's typically the north american. athlete who's more recognized. by the way oh yeah we'll have a cup here. with some maple syrup cheers.

should probably show. you you just down that whole thing no no. no i'm going to sip it i'm going to sip. it you know but by all means. it's really good right. yeah. that is uh maple syrup yeah. that's a perfect july day. from canada in a bottle yeah. so you're uh on a totally uh. on a total tangent you are known for. appreciating food in all kinds of ways. but one of the things you're known for.

is pancakes. that is uh yeah that's gone to a crazy. place in the sport but yeah like where. did that originate. so. um. where that originated when it went from. like your actual love for pancakes to. the meme. yeah so so i think what happened was uh. um so. i had a match with michael todd. big match uh michael. great champion. um he's another guy who's you know he's.

never gonna get off the horse uh you. know he's uh jesus. his elbow is a complete disaster. um. probably one of the most loved and hated. guys in the sport right now. is it because of the king's move. yeah the king's move brings him a lot of. hate um not from me not from a lot of. people but. a lot of observers have a big problem. with the king's move. what's wrong with being a little bit. controversial that's fun.

you know i get so passionate about it i. get so angry you know because there's a. saying like oh can you beat him in a. hook can you be man. win yeah win that's all that matters. that's it just win and don't talk to me. about anything else. if you can win with style win will stop. but don't talk to me about anything but. winning other it's that's the priority. so you had this match with mkhitaryan. yeah. so. i was in a terrible place. um i guess it was i get so screwed up.

with years it's 2022 now right no it's. 20 30. what are you talking about yeah. that's right i think it is actually 20. 30. we're way ahead of schedule yeah oh. man that's right so when was this this. was like a decade ago or no no this is. uh like a year and a bit ago so this is. very recent very recent yeah. so. i got really sick. yeah this is the match right okay. awesome match uh. so this is this match is for the legacy. hammer so we invented this thing called.

the legacy hammer and michael took it. from me and i think 2018. and then kovid shut everything down and. michael went overseas to try and set up. because at that time. michael was a north american champion. he beat me and. he went to dubai. and he organized this great big match. with lavon. and the whole thing fell apart. organizers leagues we wouldn't let it. happen but. there was still an ability to have a. match of significance happen so.

michael's like who do you want and like. let's give devin a rematch and i'm like. yes and i was really sick at the time. uh i had dvt i had pulmonary embolism i. was. mentally in a terrible place. and i got offered the match and i just. totally turned my life around. and. i committed. really hard yeah and uh what happened in. this match by the way. oh i just totally destroyed him.

yeah i just beat the piss out of him. yeah. um. michael's a good friend of mine. but uh yeah there's a lot of camaraderie. yeah you guys talked afterwards but we. fight like like brothers you know like. so we let each other really fight hard. against each other. but so i was. i knew i mean strength and mass they go. hand in hand. and. i committed to just getting as big and. as strong as i could and literally i was.

eating pancakes every day. bacon pancakes every sloppy bit of. garbage food i could eat i was trying to. eat healthy also but if there was. garbage food i'd eat it what do you mean. bacon and pancakes isn't healthy what. are you talking about exactly ah people. should go watch there's a video where. you make like the. the canadian. meal of uh bacon with some bacon cooking. tips water that was interesting yeah and. then um and then obviously pancakes and.

maple syrup all over the whole thing. yeah. yeah you're making me very hungry. i i've caused more diabetes and then uh. you know probably gonna get in trouble. karmically for. making the world obese you should. probably write a like like a book the. pancake diet yeah devin larry yep i. think i will do that one day so you said. uh mass and strength go hand in hand. just at a big level about arm wrestling. what's more important. strength. power endurance skill strategy or mental.

toughness like what. how do these components all. come into play in arm wrestling they're. all important. you can use everything and you can. adjust your strategy based off of the. tools that you have. uh i would say if i i could pick ever. just one thing to have more of. uh. i would i would say that it would be. strength. gained. while fighting. while actually i'm wrestling not off the. off day no no so you get stronger from.

arm wrestling how do you get stronger. from armrest like in jiu jitsu and. grappling you can get good by. training with people. much uh technically worse than you so. with white belts and blue belts yeah. it's actually beneficial degree because. you get to work stuff out right. but. i wouldn't say it develops like. that intensity and power required to go. against um people at your level. so what how do you balance that do you. is it okay to go against people that are.

much weaker than you. or that you really have to go against. people at the same level. i think that a blended. strategy is probably the best. um i i'd say kind of a rule. is whatever you do you get better at. right so. you want to be kind of as precise as. possible. you don't want to get hurt. and it's just about investment. and.

the answer is not always the same things. are going to change. i am currently a big believer in what i. call tower building right so. you have to do a lot of volume. to build a great tower. you you need to have a ton. a ton of volume so so when you look at. how to best build volume. you want to do. workouts that aren't particularly. challenging to make you feel good. and do them so that when you add them.

all together. you you get the biggest number. so. many. easy workouts a day. that are specific as possible in my. opinion is the best way to lay the. foundation for an extreme peak and. precision right like. there's no more precise way to get. strong at arm wrestling than arm wrestle. so. how often can you arm wrestle what's.

your training regimen. you're talk you've talked about this. as. the climb right. what is the training process. to get great at arm wrestling well. again it's going to depend on what level. you're at. um the answer. at the beginning. might not be the same for me. a guy who's been doing it almost 30. years. i have to harvest i have to harvest. energy from clubs.

uh i call it cosmic punch. sorry to interrupt you were here in. austin texas you are in austin texas but. you were at the what was it called the. the water tank yeah he had an awesome. crowd it was great i get to watch i got. to interact with a lot of those guys. um. yes just amazing community amazing human. beings i got to talk to dimitri in. russian in. in english he's uh he's an engineer his. wife is an engineer so he's a brilliant. dude but also. uh one of the toughest i guess guys you.

faced there yeah but you faced i don't. know how many people must have been. hundreds of yeah so the bar was full. yeah and that that for me is a perfect. training scenario yeah so if i go in and. just kind of be i'm like a lightning rod. and i just absorb. everything that i can get from people. you know all their effort uh. that's perfect that's perfect but i'm. lucky because i'm in a place. that i can handle it. you know if i was losing.

or failing this would not be optimal. but because i'm i'm strong enough i've. been doing it long enough that i can. kind of absorb it without damaging me. this is perfect this is perfect i. typically when i'm training up for a. very serious match. i'll try and do that. uh three or four times a week. and then the days in between. i will just do blood flow. rehab blood flow rehab i will never hit. a pr a record i'll never do it anymore i.

don't do it i used to a lot of things. change that's why i say like there's a. lot of ways to do it. this is currently a system that's. working very well for me. so when you say pr. you're not aggressively chasing a peak. you're just building and building a. building yeah my only peak that i care. about. is for this cycle the 25th of june. that's my only pr let's talk about the. 25th. oh yeah let's talk about lavon.

sigunishvilli. the georgian hulk. yeah uh question number one is it. possible to beat him he is widely. acknowledged as. the most powerful person. in arm wrestling today. is he beatable. and it's so how everybody's beatable. everybody's beatable lavon is incredible. he's uh he is.

what. this. modern peak of arm wrestling represents. so for people who are just listening we. we also have an overlay of a video. of lavonne going against vitali will let. in. another top three person in the world. perhaps yeah in arm wrestling. and the. lavon is the guy on the right just big. i love it and the the aggression. uh i mean actually sort of underneath it. all is it seems to be a teddy bear but.

when he turns it on yeah it's uh. it's raw power he's the full package. lavonne is uh he represents the pinnacle. um there's dennis in the background. he's like i want to be back in there. yeah. lavon has a lot of bases covered uh he's. i mean he's curling 300 pounds with one. arm i mean the strength. that he shows for arm wrestling. is.

is is so far ahead of the field it's. very very strong. um. [Music]. but. it's absolutely possible it's absolutely. possible the one thing that i'm. confident about well i'd say there's two. things. the two things i'm confident about. is that i have more experience than he. does. and. experience counts for a lot. the other thing is. my ability to. breathe and recover.

so. if ever. there's an opportunity for the tide to. turn. that's i think where he'll never get it. back so i think if i can somehow find a. hole in his game. then uh yeah. so you you want to hold off the initial. like assault of power. and that and then. wear them out. and to find the hole and then. so it's how much of that is mental how.

much of it is just the physical ability. to do. for your muscles to have the endurance. to hold off. i like to. make the sport bigger. and a lot of things that. most arm wrestlers. believe the sport is. i always try and push those boundaries. so. there is definitely a mental aspect to. it. when you're faced with something that. you've never seen before.

that's when. things like experience. comes in he can become surprised. where. what's a surprise for him is routine for. me. so my adjustments will be more precise. more accurate. that's how i get in. that's how i get in yeah i play i play a. dirty game. you know so some of it uh how important. is confidence in the whole. in the progression of the match. is there.

ups and downs of confidence like holy. shit i actually have a chance to win. this. holy shit i'm winning this you're done. there's some of my favorite moments i. don't know if those are fake or not in. terms of your expressions if faking. until you make it but whenever you shake. your head or whatever it you make it. apparent that. you believe. the match is finished. and i wonder if that gets in the head of. the other person. when you start to actually uh so i'm.

sure you're doing things in like precise. detailed things with your hands to also. indicate that you believe they're. finished but you're facially just see. this yeah. quit. oh that's right because it's 15 yet. so that's ultimate the battle is about. it's like it's you're done it's. you might as well give up. commitment is so important in anything. that you do right like um.

i always. kind of try and bring things to. a level of commitment that's uncommon i. i think that that's a lot of reasons why. i do well. is because i just get so committed in. the whole process. and by the time that i actually show up. to fight. i sometimes just wish that they would. kill me you know i wish that they would. because that's what that's how far i. want to go like people talk about like. how committed are you to the match like.

if you're committed to the match and you. lose you should be hurt like that's i'm. often unhappy. when i lose a match. and i don't have an injury i'm like damn. like what the fuck like i should have. like i feel i feel like i didn't commit. you know. um i don't know if you know dan gable is. the wrestler he oh yeah he was dawn uh. he has on the podcast yeah yeah uh. he he talked about his whole career he. dreamed of. working so hard that he gets.

he can't get off the mat. right by himself. and he was always dis he's disappointed. ultimately at the end of his career. because he was always able to get off. the mat on his own accord so he wants to. yeah leave it all. on the mat just from exhaustion. so that that's what commitment looks. like yeah what what is this process what. is this climb for. probably the toughest match of your. career. i would say the most epic match in in. arm wrestling.

history i mean it's really building up. you are. the you said north america that's a. i mean i think. uh. by a councilman you're one of the. greatest arm wrestlers ever he is one of. the scariest wrestlers ever. and so this match uh by the way where is. it happening it'll be in dubai in dubai. yeah june so what does the climb look. like. the climb for me um. what i have to change in my life always.

people talk about being a professional. i've always loved the sport i've. loved it like crazy. but to me. the path is about. simplicity. and removal of distractions. i do better and better. the more i get rid of everything. nothing else. so that my life is. just. the goal just the target and everything.

else is off the table and that's that's. where i need to get to. um where there's nothing there's nothing. between me and him and every single day. you're putting in the volume every day. all day now you said you worked out so. you yesterday you did hundreds of arm. wrestling matches and then today you. said in the morning you still worked out. so what was that workout so you you're. mixing up stuff where you're doing. weights also uh this morning you know. i try to really focus on what's.

administratively easy uh that's a big. part of me is everything i do. so i just travel with bands. yeah i got bands with me. and it's rehabilitative in nature so i'm. really focusing on blood flow. uh feeling good doing proper movements. but yeah just uh band workout in the. hotel what does a band workout look like. so are you doing the arm wrestling. movement are you oh do that see what you. did there what's that.

yeah it's you that you want to bring. them in. up. oh the up thing up up up into your. center right you think what can you. control out here. no you bring everything close. you want every just that's it don't. worry about pinning painting happens. once it's close to you yeah yeah the. pinning is. people always think about pinning you. don't think about pinning how much of. the body is a part of this too like the. uh the core the torso because it feels. like there's that almost like uh mike. tyson punch power right yep does it come.

from the hips too and the. the legs. it just gives you the body the whole. body it's definitely the whole body like. everything is working. uh you're connected to the table at. times as far as your base sometimes your. base is your feet. but a lot of times you can base off the. table so so you can base off your hips. but i'll tell you no arm wrestler cares. about doing squats. no arm wrestlers doing planks yeah okay.

it's all about the forearm and the. actions of the hand yeah that's always. the limiting factor. you look at a guy like oleg zok. okay do you know this guy oleg zak. marvelous he's a he's that total hellboy. he's my inspiration to what i call. pumpkin training. but um what's pumpkin training uh. probably we'll get into that but i only. train my right arm that's it yeah with. homework. but. back to full body. it is full body my my good friend matt.

mask. when he arm wrestled me he actually blew. his internal abductor in his in his leg. so yeah people walk away from tournament. their calves can be sore sometimes. you know it happens but. no oh there he is right there yeah oh. like he's he is a real life hell boy. he's like he's like 170 pounds there. look at his arm look at his hair it's. crazy yeah. yeah he's totally crazy. that's you doing left right there so.

that's by the way lavon you're going. right yeah. yeah. so can you say more about the the mental. side are you visualizing what it takes. to beat him are you trying to get in his. head um all of these things. so do you think it's possible to get in. a set. um. there's definitely strategies that you. can do depending on who it is you're. facing. uh it's very good to know who it is. you're fighting and choose the correct. strategy mentally.

but. i. always follow a process. when it comes to my mental preparation. when i'm far away from an event. i just always. build up my opponent. build them i build them i respect them. to a point where i almost start to fear. them and start to believe that they'll. beat me. and this is a very vital part of my. preparation and that's where i am right. now with lavon i don't. i just build them up build them up into.

this thing that scares me. and it forces me to be responsible you. know. because i don't want to lose you know i. want to win. so the greater my opponent the greater i. can build their worth in my mind. the more motivation it gives me. then there comes a point. when uh when it changes. and. then i start to degrade them. and uh yeah that's when it normally. starts to get fun.

and uh. normally by the time i face them. uh i just try and completely dominate. from every interaction from start to. finish. yeah. when uh in the actual. moment of the match like in in the. moments leading up to it what's the. feeling. is it uh. fear is it confidence. anxiety. what what's going through your mind. i love to fight.

i love it uh lo i always have i um. there's. there's every day. where you have you know the distractions. of life. and then there's really living in the. moment. right it's whatever you love to do and. that's when you can you know really be. free. uh i i'm free when i'm fighting right so. you put me in that good fight and i just. love it i don't think about the past i. don't think about the future i just. think about killing that dude in front.

of me and i enjoy that. and just being intensely in the moment. just that's it just right there just. fighting as hard as i can do you study. the opponent like do you have you for. this particular match. do you study videos of lavon i've seen. everything. i've read everything. i get opinions from other people. i watch. very closely yeah what do you make of. his evolution so so he's. he's grown in size.

but also you've talked about his um. you know evolution technically as well. well then studying him. since we're in the uh build your. opponent to be. terrifying stage uh what uh what makes. him great. he's very impressive the the greatest. thing about him. is is his strength that's the thing that. sets him apart from everyone uh his. strength.

specialized strength. exact strength for arm wrestling. i believe it's unmatched can we just uh. linger on that. word strength. what does strength mean what does it. feel like are we talking about. um bicep. like shoulder we're talking about like. whatever control right the wrist yeah is. it the. where what how does strength manifest. you know like when i touch your hand.

when we grab arms. i feel like. fuck that's true that there's control. what is that feeling where does that. come from we're in arm wrestling when. you're at the top of the world where. does that come from so. it's chains there's chains of strength. and in arm wrestling this is like. technical strength okay and we use these. technical chains to fight each other. the. the change that i'll talk about is so. you'll talk remember how we talked about.

the post this upwards drive this ability. to close this angle. this is a chain. um it can be used it's it's a technical. attack it's also an attack that can be. built with with training just the. ability to just drive upwards. uh there's a chain where you cup right. cup your wrist and cup your wrist in and. the anchor and the chain. brings you right to your heart right to. your center right this chain and this. can be done at any time. there's a pronation chain and that's. that's to turn your thumb over right.

turn your thumb over and you attack the. person's cupping chain. and there's a huge number of muscles. involved in each chain and that's why i. say it's a chain right but they're. movements. and these movements. you can develop in the gym or through. practice so you don't mean so it's easy. to sort of interpret strength to mean. the the how much you curl essentially. yeah but you mean the chain it's all. right and that's like i mean people talk. as a bicep i mean yes there's bicep for.

sure involved but i i'll always be. inaccurate if i try and tell you like. what muscles are the so i prefer to. explain it in a movement. and then everything that's involved to. do that movement. right. yeah and levon's movements for arm. wrestling. are incredibly impressive. what do you attribute to how much of. that is genetics how much of it is some. training thing he's doing. i think that.

lavon is very special in terms of. his genetics like not everybody can be. levon. you know yeah there's there's not many. lavons out there. um. but. what i've encountered in the bias that i. always see like when people talk about. people like lavonne. they discount the other side so very. quickly. and the thing is lavon rarely has to. show it on the other side because he's. so far ahead you talk about the. technical application of the sport. he so rarely needs to show it.

but he's clearly incredible if you watch. his progression he came up. having very difficult technical. struggles to overcome georgia is a great. country for arm wrestling like there's. this guy gennady click vina who no one. would ever say is not technical. and. you know. it took him years to defeat him. to a point where now it's not it's not. even a discussion. yeah you talk about the progression they. had a lot of battles together over the. years yeah it's fascinating to see the.

tides turn oh yeah and once they've. turned it's like. completely completely different level. yeah i mean he's got he's got strength. he's got technique. some people. will argue that his technique is flawed. at times they've shown matches where he. hasn't shown the best technique but he's. still one. and i think sometimes he just plays with. people. you know like uh there's a famous match.

that he had with uh. they call him the bruce lee of arm. wrestling a guy called anger bayev uh. kurta gali angerbaiev he's they had a. match in the top eight. great match curtis ali is like 220 pound. guy from kazakhstan uh. brilliant technician but power wise you. know not in the same world. and curtigali. did well even though he lost six nothing. he still did well. but in my opinion.

lavon didn't care lavon was like. grabbing him low and just like whatever. like. i will show him things that he's not. seen before i will. um. he hasn't competed often in this rule. set which will be a challenge for him. but uh. yeah what can i say like lavon he's he's. everest. yeah yeah. yeah you are seen by. basically everybody is the big big. underdog but you also even even in the. eastern even uh i mean i talk to.

russians a lot. they're you uh you know that moment in. rocky when they start cheering for rocky. yeah yeah. you're kind of the they they love you. they want you to win and just you know. it's not even um. just the battle itself is inspiring and. it's it's it's like the culmination in. your career because. it's you know you're at the top for a. long time but it's like it's almost. like it should be over for you but no. you're returning it's it is like this. big.

moment yeah the big climb. i will be. the pointy end of the spear for north. america. yeah uh beautiful well let's uh thanks. for bringing that match up let's talk. about. just um. the the the match against uh dennis your. left-hand match yeah he's also. terrifying and seen as one of the. strongest probably the. uh one of if not the strongest left hand. arm wrestler yeah.

there's a lot to be said there. maybe you could talk about this match at. a high level why did you take on this. match why did you do the left hand yeah. versus the right hand what can you tell. the story. okay. dennis the plank off. there's so much about this match i love. dennis russian guy yeah russian guy. russian i used to call him dennis. chernobyl. uh. what a monster he kind of uh. led i'd say this new era.

of arm wrestling. where. the super heavyweight strength level has. just gone through the roof. i wanted the match for such a long time. we tried to get the match uh we couldn't. get it organized this is back in like. you know 2008 to 2012 couldn't get the. match couldn't get the match i've always. been more of a one-on-one puller he was. doing the uh the tournament format i was. ranked number one in the world and. towards the end it kind of was very. undecided i ended up getting surgery i.

ended up abandoning the super. heavyweight division i went down at 225s. for a few years. wal failed. temporarily. um so the 225 pound division was. scrapped and i said okay. i'm gonna go for the for the big crown. once again. and i started uh to go after super. heavyweights. the. 2018. season. was.

right hand. uh. i started to enter negotiations to have. the match with him i. we've been chasing the match for 10. years. they want to do it left hand i want to. do a right hand. i just wanted to i just wanted to do the. match i wanted to do the match with. dennis i wanted to meet dennis so people. should know that you were. the right hand has always been your. strongest it has been i mean i had. surgery in 2016. i hate to make excuses. i hate to do it.

um. dennis was better than me that day even. on my best day if you had gone back my. entire career. at no single day do i beat dennis to. plank off in 2018 i would like to think. that i could maybe do it now but at that. point there would be no version that. could have beat him i left all right uh. right hand no. i i'm curious about the right. uh but left hand so is the world. well it might still happen it might. but uh.

dennis. completely destroyed me. um. and. i learned a lot from it. i i think before. the dennis match. i think i was i don't know i i don't. know exactly what your word to use. maybe i felt like. my thinking was a little bit elitist. uh and i really learned a lot i was. really humbled that day. um. [Music].

by how far and how professional and how. prepared dennis was. and how seriously he took the sport. there's a mental. a slightly terrifying. calmness to him. which only comes with extreme. preparation i think yeah his level of. dedication. uh was extremely inspiring to me. you know. i. used to do a job.

where. it was serious enough that the the price. could be death right. and. i arm wrestled throughout that entire. period. and i always kind of. looked at uh. you know the cost. of doing an activity being death. limited to soldiering. and. i i kind of changed my mind a lot after. that match i realized that.

anything that you're in love with. once you get far enough down the road. and professional enough at it it's gonna. kill you. like doesn't matter what you're doing if. you're crazy enough about anything it's. probably gonna take your life for me in. some way. and that doesn't mean you rush towards. death it's just your level of investment. and level of risk can have some. catastrophic effects. bukowski charles bukowski i think has. the quote uh.

do what you love and let it kill you. right like that right. and. i understood. that dennis's level of professionalism. far exceeded mine. in. what we were doing at the time. and i realized that you know. i i was no longer employed. i was now in the world of professional. arm wrestling. and i realized that uh you know what was. i doing. like how serious was i.

so dennis is an incredible guy. is there moments in that match there's. there's humility there too from him. that was a fascinating. uh sort of. it seemed like you realize that you just. hit a wall and you were not ready enough. for it it was incredible. there was so many things that i remember. about the dentist match i mean i. remember. you know. seeing video of somebody and then. meeting them in person it's different. i remember in the weigh-ins sorry not. the weigh-ins and the the standoff that.

we did you know before the match i'm. looking at him like i'm close i'm. looking at his arms. and. his bicep. it looked like an ass. like it was like a freaking glute muscle. yeah like his. entire structure was so sinewy and. just so strong. i was like wow he's so physically so. impressive. and. i remember when i arm wrestled him. a certain at a certain time.

he allowed me to kind of set my position. you can very you can't really tell. because it happens very quickly. but he let me set my position which. means i kind of got my locks in where. where you can kind of really do a great. hold. and he just ripped through me. just so you you were able to get this. great position so it was tore right. through me. yeah and uh. the first time i ever thought that uh.

you know he that i had torn something i. thought like after the match i'm like. did he rip my chest right in half like. um. what. yes no i didn't i didn't actually. nothing went purple or anything but um. yeah the strength gap was very. significant with dennis uh so could he. what would it take to beat him on that. day. um. it would it would take me just being.

a little bit stronger. um. and and more healthy yeah. uh my left was not as healthy as it. should be. like i didn't have a full rounded. technical arsenal. it takes a time after surgery it really. does like i mean. you can be good but. after a surgery like what i had you know. you're probably looking at three or four. years before you're starting to hit. technical proficiency the way you should. be. and uh yeah just a bit stronger.

how do you interpret the calmness on his. face well what is that about. the z actually it's very russian it's a. russian it's a russian thing i think i. don't know i see a lot of russians like. that you know they're so like stoic and. i'm such a fan of russia i i really want. to go to moscow i've been saying it. forever you've never been not yet not. yet i i want to go i want to just go and. live there for like a month and just. train the moscow has got such a crazy. arm wrestling scene they've got from. what i understand they just have so many. clubs there's so many strong athletes.

just go and just. lightning rod. yeah are you considered doing something. of that sort it's like rocky iv again oh. yeah like oh and lead up to june i would. certainly consider it i've got. only one trip planned at the moment. administration is very important. what do you mean by administration so. like managing your time and management. yeah the management has to be very. efficient. you know when i'm a tourist when i'm a.

visitor a little bit of that goes down. you know when i'm at my home and things. are familiar. i've got a really great grasp on my time. you know everything's in place. everything's perfect you know. if i could magically transport moscow. into my hometown and just go out and. visit them. yeah so it's very difficult when you're. traveling you have to keep all the you. have to. figure out what you're eating where how. are you getting the food all the. socializing plus you're. more and more celebrity so there's.

social interaction which i don't know um. how draining that could be on you. outside of the arm wrestling table. so all you have to manage all of that. because. ultimately you have to focus on. the fight ahead. yeah. yeah a lot of my strength comes from. just being in a familiar place. doing my routine. i love to travel i love to get out there. and meet people and. new experiences. but when i just want to really prepare.

for a big match yeah home is uh. where i get strong so that loss against. dennis was one of the few losses in your. career. uh how did that feel. in the moments after in the days after. in the months after in the years after. how has it changed you. as an arm wrestler as a human being. well. it's tough to lose uh. still haunt you.

um. [Music]. i don't think so i actually was really. happy to lose to dennis. because you know sometimes when you lose. a match there's a lot of matches that. i've lost where they upset me because i. know i made a mistake. i didn't make a mistake with dennis he. was just he was just way better there's. nothing i could have done that day. i'm really at peace with it. dennis. to me was just a big inspiration i think. that me arm wrestling dennis left-handed. that day just let me touch probably one.

of the strongest human beings on the arm. wrestling table that's ever lived you. know left-handed. so so knowing that's possible. is almost like. yeah inspiration to you that i can be at. that level too yeah. yeah yeah seeing what dennis did. uh you know just trying to absorb a. little bit of his knowledge uh. planted seeds in me. yeah i mean when i look at my career. it's it's a bit like the stock market. but.

for sure i'm trending upwards. and. since. really kind of wrapping my mind around. uh some of the russian philosophies. they really changed my training systems. uh there were some base philosophies. that they talked to me about over there. that. massively impacted my training is it. possible to convert some of those. philosophies into words can you describe. some of the ideas they taught you. so never smile. right. man there's so like it takes a while to.

break the ice with a lot of these guys. uh well once you do i mean that's this. deepest bonds you can form there yeah. yeah for sure. i think that i was raised under. i believe it's a flawed it's i mean it's. not flawed because it has its value as. well. but it's best if you understand both. philosophies. uh i think a north american thing. that's just so ingrained in our fitness.

society. is no pain no gain you know and just. pushing and like sweating and going. harder and like fighting through like. and grit and toughness and. but. and then you talk to the russians and. they're like yeah never fail you never. fail never never go to failure uh always. feel good. always feel good it should always feel. good don't. um. and those two philosophies express. themselves very differently um.

and if you want to get strong. yeah don't fail. don't fail. so. that's how you they also are believers. of volume. yeah uh there's a lot of strategies but. yeah volume is a massive principle and. volume is very hard to achieve when. you're believing in no pain no gain. right right they don't really go. together no pain no gain more injuries. so the is there parallels because in in.

wrestling some of the greatest wrestlers. of all time are russian and they they. were big um dan gable talks about it. they were big on. play right like lighter wrestling right. probably ultimately actually. it boils down to that's how you achieve. higher volume right like over the. stretch of years. the way to reduce injury. um i mean in wrestling also technique. might um. have greater value than it does in arm.

wrestling obviously technique is. extremely important in arm wrestling but. power is. like can defeat technique. it seems like yeah in wrestling you can. get away. there's a lot of ways you can really uh. uh do sneak attacks sort of use leverage. all those kinds of things so there's. even more incentive to do play and all. that kind of stuff yeah but uh. do you do you see the parallels between. the two worlds oh yeah wrestling and arm. wrestling 100. you saw what i did the other night.

right so i'm playing on the table for. hours yeah right so that's that's that's. that's my number one. training thing that i do is i go on the. table. for hours and i play. yeah. yeah when you did uh sergey can you pull. up that video it's on devin's channel. the uh the water tank one oh it's like. 180p it's like the the wi-fi in there. was so bad yeah it's great i love it but. it's uh maybe the. i don't know if it was fisheye but it. had a fisheye feels yeah crowded i mean.

so much camaraderie it was it was. amazing but maybe uh. just a brief mention of uh dimitri the. uh the russian. the russian guy what uh. uh. what in that play what are some. memorable things here like you when you. go against a bunch of different people a. bunch of strangers what are all the. differences and how do you grow from. them how do you learn from them well. everybody's a bit different so.

i love to go to new clubs because the. energy is always high like the first. time you go to a club everybody's trying. to kill you yeah yeah so there's. excitement yeah this is and so you feed. off of that yeah you do you can you can. if you're able to be strong enough to. absorb it without injury it's awesome. it's awesome um because they're giving. you everything they can yeah. yeah. yeah. right so it's it's very specific right. like i'm gonna get way stronger at arm. wrestling and what i try and do.

when i go to these places as i make an. assumption. i make an assumption that i'm the best. guy there. and so i'll arm wrestle in a way that. kind of protects them because the more i. can protect them. and kind of keep them kind of in a good. position. they can actually give me more. right so i kind of i kind of give them. little pieces that i think will put them. in a place that they can really give me. more. and so yeah that's what i'm doing and.

then when i see somebody like dimitri. yeah i pull that in a little bit right. so okay so i know dimitri's the number. one guy in texas. uh you know lots of respect to the guy i. i won't give him all the pieces until i. really kind of gauge where he's at. because i certainly in training don't. want to fail. i don't want that i don't want to. when you fail in arm wrestling it's just. imagine it's just bad technique. and you're trying and bad technique. you're going to get hurt.

yeah so you always want to be in a. strong position here what about in how. do how does endurance come into play. here and here's video yeah strapping up. with that's right. yeah how do you i mean you went for like. i don't know two hours a year yeah. so the first this first run of the video. i think was a little over an hour and. then i took a break and i probably did. another 45 minutes or so but. i mean do you. how can are you okay. with the endurance aspect of this yeah. that's probably like when you talk to.

the arm wrestling world that's probably. what i'm best known for is my endurance. so this helps build that. it does but that's not why i'm doing it. i'm doing it to get strong. in my opinion this is this is one of the. best ways to get strong especially far. away from the from a tournament uh or or. any kind of an event. i wouldn't want to do this. you know even a month or even six weeks. or even maybe even eight weeks before a. big event i'd want to already be kind of.

shrinking my volume. but. far away from an event yeah as much. volume as your body can handle and. you'll feel it you'll feel it like i. felt it at times like you know after the. hour mark i'm like okay i can feel my. blood sugar kind of diminishing i can. feel like the blood that's going through. my muscles is kind of like. it's not really pushing more good stuff. in it's start i'm starting to break down. and you don't want that. you don't want that. quick pause bathroom break i'm good okay.

i kind of need one yeah i'll maybe get a. sweater it's a bit is it cold do you. does that matter does that care for. content. i couldn't make it warmer no no. that doesn't matter. and i still love the idea of you going. to russia yeah and uh training there. yeah i'm also making a trip out to. russia oh yeah i went for differently. well it's hard with the current conflict. uh yeah the tension's there but i'm. hoping uh before your match actually so. may. for a couple of interviews with a couple. of folks.

some of which people know. maybe i could ask you about uh. to comment on some matches that stand. out to you in in your. in your career sure. is there something uh is there a. particular i have a bunch that i really. enjoy but is there something that stands. out to you as. as uh as memorable we talked about. sort of uh. defining laws perhaps the dentist. [Music].

then um you you faced michael tyler who. mentioned john. brzenk you've you've faced matt. um is there something that stands out to. you that uh technically or. psychologically you've. learned a lot from. i've i feel like i try and learn. something from every match but there is. a very special match to me. that to this day i can't explain. uh. very weird phenomena so.

i think it was 2005. uh it was my first. combat tour overseas. so. it was a. active tour. uh you know among among other things i i. got shot during that tour like we got. blown a long tour rough tour. and i trained the whole time through. knowing that at the end of this i was. gonna have a big match. so there's a champion guy called ron.

bath. uh he's kind of if there was no john. berzink there would be ron bath. okay so. extremely decorated. unbelievable arm wrestler from the. united states. and this is kind of when i was just kind. of coming up in the sports still i was. fairly well established i was definitely. the best guy in canada and i had been. for a few years. but i hadn't really expanded. internationally too much. so. i had a one-on-one match with ron bath.

and. that's the one. yeah. extremely hard-fought battle. was 3-1 i think 3-1 but every match was. really close and he won the first one. and i had to kind of like dig my way out. of the trenches and uh ended up coming. back and winning but. it was a match. that was probably it was probably one of. my closest matches ever. and.

it seems like there's frustration on you. what is that what was going through your. mind here. with these uh was it first of all going. in did you think you could beat them. what was the level of call i always. think i can win like i always do. um but you know a lot of respect to the. guy um. but yeah i mean i always think i can do. it. uh so how did what what lessons did you. take away from it uh why why is it so. meaningful to you. well it's what happened afterwards. so.

i had some kind of a release afterwards. and that was the strange thing to me so. match. ended. and i felt like. so relaxed afterwards so calm so. so you know satisfied. because it was one of those matches uh. that kind of takes everything from you. yeah but you win it. and. i was relaxing in the chair. and.

i've never had this sensation. before i've never had it afterwards. but it's like the center of my backbone. just exploded. and it was like. so weird right because i'm not really. spiritual that much or religious even. but it's like a fire just ripped through. me. and it only lasted an instant. just exploded through my whole body. out. at the top through my feet. and then i was gone that was it.

uh weirdest thing i've ever felt my. entire life um. yeah but it was it was as a result of uh. what happened in the match. and leading up to it i had some kind of. a release. um so what it does is almost. how did you interpret it psychologically. was it like uh. some kind of i mean not to be spiritual. or whatever but some kind of superpower. that was uh. like. like a lingering feeling like holy shit.

i. them you know i can't i can't explain it. and i haven't really tried hard enough. to try to. uh but something changed something. happened there yeah. something happened to me i was sore for. about three or four months afterwards. it's like it smoked out my entire body. yeah that whole summer i was kind of. sore. and uh yeah and then after that like two. or three years later that's when i won. the world championships. um. yeah i mean all the matches are you know.

you get something from people like you. know you study them. you you take something from them. people have an invisible crown. and uh he had one. and i think i took it from him. [Laughter]. maybe that was the feeling of wearing. the crown yeah maybe. what about all the trash talk how much. of that did you learn does that come. naturally to you you're you're one of. the most charismatic fun i mean there's. always like respect behind it i would.

say to me. and i'm a fan of a lot of sports you're. one of the greatest trash talkers in all. of sports that i've ever seen because. you're able to talk shit. but there's so much love and respect. behind it it's just masterful but you. also get into people's heads yeah in the. moment it's beautiful to watch because. they it really gets. it gets to some people so where does. that come from this powerful weapon. right yeah it's through your voice is a. powerful powerful weapon. and it's under utilized by so many.

athletes. because they think that it's not. sportsmanlike or. something like that but the truth is. i mean. you can be a a weak. person. but with your voice you can. influence and change any number of. things. and the same thing happens in a fight. between two people if you can just be a. never-ending you know. flow of negative encouragement to. someone or you know.

you know suggestion. uh anything can happen it's a tool. and when you're fighting a person you're. not just fighting them. you're fighting everyone who's watching. you're fighting. the crowd the referees. and. you know to get in the most ideal. positions situations you need to use. your voice. yeah yeah and there's uh. for people who haven't seen i i.

definitely recommend you watch a bunch. of arm wrestling matches because um. there's a crowd really gets into it and. it feels. it feels like there's a really intimate. connection with the crowd i suppose. because the crowd is allowed to be very. close to you yeah and says i love it. i i want the crowd like right up on me. yeah yeah. so sometimes. oh yeah. so who are you when you whenever you. talk to somebody you literally pick. somebody from the crowd yes oh yeah i'll.

i'll fuck him like i'll start fucking. off his fans and like. yeah like i'll start talking to their. wives or whatever yeah. yeah uh yeah there's jody um. she's pretty dangerous to to listen to. also but yeah one of his buddies mike. solaris who's you know. really good arm wrestler was was talking. was was cheering for him so i started go. after him yeah yeah. smiling the whole time yeah it's fun. right it's fun.

yeah fan is fun to listen to but it's. also what's fun is how much it actually. affects some of the people you're facing. they get frustrated yeah it's great to. see well you have to fight right. like a lot of people think things will. be given to them and and the thing that. you know i've always believed from the. time i was very young like uh. i i was convinced that uh. our inevitable death was gonna come from. aliens right. like some super aggressive. super violent species was gonna come and.

smoke us all. you know and i'm like. i'm i'm not like that i'm like but as. soon as one person is. then you're forced to have to accept it. as reality right. so. i like to fight. for. every single thing i like to try and be. more and more aggressive and if someone. matches me. that's when i can use my endurance and. if they don't then i have the tactical. advantage. so that's kind of my my balance point. and then by the way you also yell at the.

ref yeah i mean the games there's like. levels to this game but you know. the feeling sometimes when people get. frustrated it's like okay this person's. cheating or like. you're trying to get a good grip. uh. before they go before it goes. and. and i think some of the frustration in. combination with the trash talk is what. this person is cheating right but. everybody is like kind of trying to. achieve get an edge within the rules. yeah. so i try and just ramp it ramp it ramp.

it. but uh you know everybody's different. i've learned how to play the game. based off of the tools that i have. physically yeah and for me. this works because you know my genetic. makeup is more i'm more of a persistence. hunter right so like i need to extend. things and. that works well for me. um. you know if i was ex more explosive. i probably wouldn't have the same.

strategies. yeah. by the way for people who were just. watching uh you're wearing a no limits. hoodie which is. uh one of your nicknames i uh i don't. wash this thing too much it's my. bacterial shield to uh to the world yeah. yeah. awesome so you mentioned jody she's. often in uh in your corner and. does perhaps more trash talking than. even you. so. i mean. if we could step away she's an. incredible human being is sort of as a.

fan it's fun to watch the two of you. both when you are arm wrestling and just. as people you just see so much. i don't know kindness and love radiating. from the two of you whenever you're. trash talking or talking about just uh. random things or just talking about life. it's just a beautiful thing to watch and. thank you for sharing that with the. world but. maybe. can you um she paid me to ask you this. what what are the things you love about.

jody your wife jody larry. what are the ways she's affected your. life. yeah. jody and i go way back right we were in. high school together. um. the thing that i admire most in people. is is bravery. uh it's to me it's the most admirable. quality. and. jody always.

has inspired me because she's such a. fighter. you know if if she believes that. something's true. um she'll she just she does not back. down she will she will not and you can. not to say that she's can't change her. mind cause. she can but while she is convicted. she will uh she'll not stop fighting. she's pulled me out of the fire. repeatedly. we've we've lived through so many things. i'm very lucky how has she made you a.

better arm wrestler. she's fed me. [Laughter]. yeah i could see your uh you have videos. of your house basically coming apart. when she's not there yeah. yeah. yeah without jody i'm on the street uh. living in a tent and uh yeah down by the. eating dog food yeah. yeah. um. bravery yeah what about love how's love. made you stronger now we're gonna make. uh devin uncomfortable.

love is difficult to accept. love is one of those things that um. you know a lot of times you don't feel. worthy of it. you know and so it's hard sometimes to. accept someone's love. and someone who really loves you. they'll love you even when you don't. you know. and. here you go you're gonna make me cry. alex. uh. yeah jody and i've been through so much. um.

and she's shown me. how you know. she supported me just repeatedly. repeatedly. some of that is loyalty and patience and. perseverance and all those things that's. like when love really. shows itself yeah sticking through yeah. together for years even when you're. to the the shitty times love and faith. are powerful forces in this universe you. know without them. that we can descend into darkness very.

quickly you know as a world even between. people you know when love and faith is. destroyed. then. then we fall apart. you know and i've i've been graced. by by the love that jody's given me you. know it's allowed me to continue to. build you know when you have love. between people then you build together. um i love. i love. my family i love canada i love the arm. wrestling community i have a love for.

what we're trying to achieve as a human. species you know. and uh. you know. when that when that falls apart we don't. have much. yeah. just with my boy there. yeah. yeah she um. he also mentioned your uh and uh. you once had a job where uh. your. death was a real possibility so you won. the canadian special forces. what did you take away from. that experience.

that time. it was such a. such a great life. really really loved it i honestly i. never i never wanted to leave i never. thought i would leave i thought i'd be. there my whole life. um. a real honor. to to get to serve what what did you get. to do what was the things you loved. craftsmanship wise like fun things you. get to do learn and challenge yourself. yeah and and you mentioned sort of honor. yeah in terms of the the the serving.

part yeah. yeah my favorite thing. about. serving in the special forces was. for sure the people that i worked with. that's probably the first thing i could. say uh you know i never i always felt. like. totally comfortable. and and putting my life in the other. guy's hands. i was so happy to be in a place where i. felt i could follow um. like. it didn't matter like i knew that the.

people ahead of me were were incredible. i knew the people beside me were. incredible. so just having that faith in your team. is very special and to know that they're. for there for a reason that has nothing. to do with money you know there and. that's what kind of brings everybody. together is you're there to for a higher. purpose. uh and in terms of being an adrenaline. junkie. there's nothing like it i mean there's. nothing like you know going out at night. and fighting uh and when i say fighting.

like. my whole life i wanted to fight. uh and to me. there's a lot of and look at i've said. this in the past and i think it's been a. personal failure of mine. because i've said things like. it's the highest level that you can i. don't believe that to be true anymore. but at the time. uh i thought it was the best way i could. express. um. my drives that i had you know to be a. fighter. um so oh so your sense in the past and.

maybe in part now is that. so fighting is when humans get a chance. to express themselves deeply like like. that that mix of um the bravery. the integrity. the. yeah whatever that is that makes us. human that human scary can really shine. and i don't believe that anymore i. believe that you can do that in any. field in any discipline you know if you. go hard enough it all kind of starts to. feel the same.

but at the time. uh that you know expression to me was. really really awesome i i loved i loved. close quarter battle that was my. favorite thing that's really the whole. reason i was there. uh can you describe close quarter battle. close quarter battle is. is team fighting so. and it can look a lot of different ways. but basically it's. ground troops. doing some kind of a mission.

and it's the orchestrated movement that. is the skill the orchestrated movement. and the the drills. done quickly and accurately it's it's. it's very difficult with communication. with communication yeah absolutely so. you're it's basically cooperating. together absolutely yeah there's some. strategies there's some adapting to the. changing environment and the more the. team works together the less. communication there is yeah. yeah uh and that's an amazing thing to. do to be part of a machine well machine.

a team. of people who can. fight together like that. it's i think it's. it's uh we're really designed to do it. like as good as we can fight as. individuals the thing that makes us. really good is our ability to fight as a. team yeah. yeah we're that's one of the things that. makes us really human is that collective. intelligence yeah social aspect and. uh fighting is the highest of stakes so. like that social interaction under the. highest stakes is uh.

really does bring. out something that's deeply human. um. i mean. war in general brings out something. deeply human it's just. it's. i mean obvious to say that it's tragic. that it results in so much. loss of life and well-being. uh let me if it's okay. for a brief moment to take us back to um. arm wrestling we we we did this like.

offline we talked about you gave me some. advice and about arm wrestling but maybe. do a high level overview of um. like the different styles and strategies. that we've talked about we talked about. the importance of strength and power. but is there like offensive defensive. styles is there we mentioned kings move. uh what what what would you classify. your style as it's nice for people that. don't. know maybe even zoom back out so arm.

wrestling is a sport yeah. where. two. people. have to uh when we talk about strictly. the sport put their elbow on a. particular pad means they have to keep. that elbow on that pad. and they uh. win when the back of one of their hands. crosses some kind of or basically. touches the table that's it. and uh. when you actually lock up. you do so depending on the organization.

without straps meaning there's just you. agree it's like mutual agreement that. you're going to uh. uh clasp your hands in in a way that's. fair and there's a referee that helps. ensure that it's fair but of course. there's these little games going on. and then when you actually go all out. with this battle. if there's no straps you can slip out. and so often you'll put the straps which. means you're uh it's like marriage yep. you're committed. yeah uh.

for like somebody will have to lose. essentially uh there's no pulling out. so this okay so that's sort of the. battle within that. what are the different styles that you. can speak to that people that don't know. arm wrestling. could uh could could yeah we can start. to kind of just dance around the subject. a bit. i'd say. there's a lot of different types. there's specialists. and. there's kind of blenders and people who.

are very versatile. a lot of guys win world championships on. one singular move they get just. extremely crisp at. say a hook or a top roll. and their style is very kind of focused. and you'll see it with. a lot of athletes like. kind of a talk about guy who's very. active a guy called jerry catarat okay. as soon as you think jerry caderet he's. got a very unique style he's got a flop. wrist press okay so.

most of his technique is built around. this one system flop wrist means you're. yes. what it sounds like yeah your wrist is. flopped so yeah but you're like you're. losing pushing so he is pushing from a. losing position no he will be offensive. so he will be in a press so offensively. so he'll give his hand away so that he. can get his shoulder behind it properly. so he doesn't. wow right so you can press press means. put like push push yeah uh.

without having that hook position right. which is what most people are always. looking for. and jerry's looking for it as well and. then so example there's another one. there's another specialist matt mask. yeah he's a top roller. right uh he basically that's his that's. his great moves it's top roll and his. other weapons aren't nearly as powerful. this. incredible top roll and then you have a. lot of athletes that are more blended.

okay they have a lot of good options. um i think that i probably fall more. into that category. you have people who are more speed guys. okay so they. try and do very little uh i'd call it. attrition. right so. a lot of people are very willing to. trade energy. because they have faith that their their. gas tank or their pool eventually will. tire the other person out so anytime. there's a trade they'll trade.

whereas you know a guy like travis. baijin. you know he was very very well known as. being extremely explosive right but if. the match stops. typically he's going to lose. all right so. based off of your genetics. your hand. you know there's a lot of ways to skin. it. so. i think you said something like. you're a. 22nd guy. that's right i'm the 22nd guy so what.

are we what are the seconds we're. talking about so a lot of the power. people they want to win in the first. maybe five seconds like even shorter. just that first push that first press. that absolutely and that's right. right to the pad yeah and so you're. trying to hold off that attack yeah if i. beat you in a second we're not in the. same world. yeah. when i'm with my peer group. i will typically win 20 seconds and. beyond. that's a typical win for me when i'm.

with a peer. whereas other guys when they're with. their peers they'll win in a second. right that's how they do it that's. that's the way they're built that's the. way they they train. um. yeah most guys at a higher level it all. starts to kind of it starts to get more. and more difficult to be a specialist at. the high level now. some people just have little holes in. their games. it's rare to get someone who can really. do all the moves it's very rare.

what uh where would you put lavon. uh i would not say he's a specialist i'd. say his top role is his strongest move. top roll is his strongest move yeah. uh and the interesting thing about the. specialist versus the blender. there's a counter. right every move has a move that. theoretically should be the right choice. so if you're a single move guy uh.

there's gonna be a guy out there who'll. get you. yeah it'll be very difficult for you to. beat that guy um. but. like when you come to like a tournament. typically specialists do much better in. tournament scenarios. because their singular move can get them. through a tournament very quickly and. efficiently. whereas you get a blender in a. tournament. they typically will have longer and more. difficult matches and you out right yeah.

yeah but in in super match format. typically blenders. do better. so we uh offline also talked about arm. sumo or uh freedom arm wrestling i don't. know how you want to call it i love. freedom. exactly north american way uh. so what so this is this is this idea and. i watched a few videos and it looks fun. it's basically removing the restriction. of having to keep your elbow on the pad.

and just being able to arm wrestle over. the whole table i i think you've. mentioned that the criticism that gets. is it might be injury prone or something. like that yeah so can you describe this. arm sumo freedom arm wrestling idea. right when you come to freedom arm. wrestling basically. it removes the limitation of a standard. arm wrestling table yeah right so. basically every single thing is a. freedom arm wrestling table some are. better than others all right so looking. for that nice table where we can kind of.

stand apart from each other and we're. anatomically you know in a fairly safe. position. and the rules and freedom the way you. win is like the knuckles. must either touch the tabletop. or you hold it off the edge. for for a three count. right so this is the main way to win yes. you can foul like if you lift the. eyeball up still a foul. but you have the entire playing surface. so your elbow is no longer limited to. your seven by seven or seven by nine pad. so you can move it all over the table.

you can move your body around the table. a bit too and if it's a big table your. body could largely be on the table yeah. so it basically it's like adjusting your. ring size so arm wrestling you're. fighting in a phone booth yeah right so. you get you're fighting in a field. you're fighting you know just bigger so. it just it just makes the sport bigger. yeah this is japan but even on a small. table there. even in a slightly larger phone booth. you can get a a lot more. fun and variety very interesting i love.

it i think it makes the sport bigger i. actually believe that it's the future of. the sport i really do. because it makes it more accessible like. you don't need the equipment you do it. at a bar yep all that kind of stuff yeah. yeah less less equipment requirements. uh kids most kids start freedom like. most kids are wrestling school desks. yeah yeah and like if you see a guy on. the street and like whatever like you. can wrestle anywhere you don't need to. bring your table around with you. if uh. we talked about the elite level if. somebody was.

interested in. starting in arm wrestling yeah or like. going from. just like you know i you go to the gym. you kind of lift. you've arm wrestled a few times trying. to get better at it trying to learn how. would you advise like getting better to. where you can beat your closest buddies. yeah that first step. first step. i'd say find people. find people find good people. uh volume get we'll get with the club.

get with people who know what they're. doing who can mentor you. and that's really cool i i got to me i. realized there's a club in austin yeah. i'm sure there's in a lot of places. they're everywhere we we got this. app called armbat. yeah. which is a app that helps you find other. people there yeah very easy but i mean. they're all over social networks i mean. it's kind of widespread now. but yeah find people. find people and it's just much easier to. learn with another person and you'll get.

stronger that way but i mean do this do. the lifts. if you go to the gym just start doing. the lifts uh and right away those will. technically prepare you what are what. are the lists can we describe yeah so. i'd say if you want to just keep it very. very simple let's just talk about three. there's more there's much more than. three but like when you talk about. energy allocation. these three lifts in my opinion. should be like.

ninety percent of your investment. is it's very big these three lifts. uh. and. the exact percentages can you can argue. about it but we'll we'll start off with. the cupping of the wrist. just this this is a simple thing. and do it with a cable. uh you know you can get a thicker. diameter so it kind of you know is is. more out on your fingers where an. armrest is going to attack you right. because any good armrest is going to. attack your fingers so like open hands.

no. no well i mean for health yes you could. but like if you want to be really. specific you train exactly the way you. would at a table in the position that. you actually start the match yeah and. then you're just doing uh this kind of. yes to your center your people people. one of the one of the big misconceptions. in arm wrestling is that you're aiming. for that pin pad right. no. the chest up bring it close to you. make it come close to you right you see.

like whenever i do my exercises the the. vector is always pulling straight. towards me yeah. yeah so just uh you know cupping. close to you the most dangerous thing. that a person can do to me on an arm. wrestling match is just pull me away. from my body. that that's a terrible thing for me. yeah so so that cupping. yeah that's a massive part of the sport. uh so. now when you think what does the cup do. to the other person. if i cup. they get turned over.

right. so this has to get really strong. this pronation so. so to fight the. to fight that rolling exactly yeah so. that's that's through the thumb. yeah. oh so you put uh got it you put on the. thumb and you put this motion. yeah. got it yeah. those two things those two things. together this cupping and rolling. this is what's going to make the.

person's hand bend back. and once the person's hand is bent back. they're just their whole game gets cut. to pieces. they have very little good options it's. all like nasty stuff. wow yeah so those two things that's a. that's a huge part of of your of your. investment uh. rise. always be climbing yeah exactly. yeah those three simple things. that's what i would tell anybody to. spend most their time on if you want to.

become an art wrestler so and to use. bands would be good for this bands are. great because they're easy to transport. the only problem i have with bands is. like if you like to measure you know if. you like to be precise bands just aren't. that precise right so to have growth. yeah yeah just i mean it's just like you. know you know exactly what you need the. prescription is kind of a band is kind. of like and a lot of people myself. included i like to uh i like to know. exactly my outputs so so weights.

so it would be like cables yep. cables are nice bands are great too i i. mix the two bands are. uh when i kind of don't need to. they're more like easy for me i when i. train bands. bands are dangerous because the. acceleration is so high on them like. when you screw up with band training the. acceleration is way faster than gravity. right so if you do something bad it can. can make it go really much worse yeah.

it's funny that you didn't mention. bicep curls or uh well it's a chain. it's a chain and so you're i mean the. idea if you focus on these three the. other stuff catches up like it's all. involved this whole this whole thing is. involved so. if you have an axe. right. the blade of the axe. that's that's these things right. like you need the the pointy end of all. your attacks to be awesome. right if you have a super sharp axe yeah.

you could have a shitty hand. yeah. right yeah so focus on that the point. the yeah tip of the axe yeah the tip of. the axe is so important right like if i. have an awesome bicep and i can't quite. use it what's it good for right yeah i. think a lot of the motions with the. wrist that you mentioned are uh just. thinking about jiu jitsu especially in. the ghee yeah um. there's a lot of i mean there's so much. importance to this and people don't. often work. it um explicitly yeah so many of the.

chokes require yeah ability to it's. almost like exactly like arm wrestling. very close because you're weak here. uh what's that called flop wrist yeah. and you're strong with the cup oh yeah. and so you just getting the muscle. whatever that's involved the muscle the. turning the pressure because that's. where also the choke comes that little. the thing that makes you win in arm. wrestling is also the thing that. finishes the person when you have.

them grabbed the strength is very. similar yeah it's fascinating actually. of course like you said if you want to. be very good you should be doing. the very specific exact motion yeah so. if i was going to do jiu jitsu i'd be. like working out with the ghee yeah the. problem is. you know uh it's difficult to construct. the um the exact. so you have to actually go with people. and then they don't like being choked up. right so like it's hard to i'm actually.

a big we have these kinds of debates all. the time is um. you know i'm a big. believer in drilling i love doing. something thousands of times like john. donahue or somebody. i mentioned to you about the jiu jitsu. folks here. they're less believers in drilling they. they see the value of. almost like the mind of of going live. and exploring ideas that's that play you. don't need to do the thing a thousand. times you just need to always be.

thinking about the little details that. make you uh. make you better and then in action. practicing like developing the strength. the power the explosive the agility in. action so actually rolling i don't. you know i i agree with this but i just. believe in volume more yeah so you can. accomplish it through volume you can you. can play a lot. yes exactly well that's the if you. really want to get it good is you're. talking about i mean that's why.

uh a lot of these folks are training. three times a day they're doing you know. they're putting in the hours eight hours. nine hours just just oh that's tough oh. my god well so there are a lot of them. are not doing going hard it's just being. on the mat someone is just sitting there. talking through ideas watching others or. teaching explaining stuff it's just. it's like it's not just physical it's. it's a mental too because you're keeping. in your mind and some of the greatest. that's what they talk about the.

the wrestlers i've talked. with the fighters. at the top of their career they. basically. uh george saint pierre's like this. another fellow canadian is uh. he like has stick figures in his head. they can't help yeah they're like in. there because if you train enough hours. you're. it's just going to be in your head and. they're all going to be playing around. in your head yeah and some little detail. over time it's almost like computing or. something like that and that ends up.

uh having a result even though you're. not physically doing anything it's it's. it's always in there. i do have to return to diet real quick i. know we talk about pancakes let me. quite seriously um. you are one of the. i mean strongest athletes in the world. for your sport so you have to get big. you have to get powerful you have to get. strong. what is the right diet for you for that.

like. what do you eat. how often do you. eat um. yeah from the the highest detail to the. smallest or the things that make you. happy and feel good yeah. i've experimented with every diet i've. done it all i've been a vegan uh i've. done raw i've eaten only meat. i've eaten balanced. eaten like a bodybuilder. you know.

you name it i've probably tried it. i don't believe that it's as important. in the sport of arm wrestling as it is. perhaps in other sports. uh i believe that. i mean just to be very basic i mean if. you're eating enough food you're. probably gonna be okay um. so it's just calories it's a lot i mean. it really i mean not to over complicate. it but i mean that's that's where the. conversation starts are you eating. enough food.

and it can come in any number of ways. and. i i i don't think it's as important. as a lot of other people do. i'm certainly irresponsible in a lot but. the thing is is. back to like volume right like you need. to like if if you want to be a super. heavyweight yeah. it's very different than if you want to. be a weight category guy yeah if you. want to be a weight category guy i'd say. that you need to be more responsible.

make better choices if you want to be a. super heavyweight. everything just so we're watching a. delicious looking omelette so eggs bacon. syrup so you don't care carbs or protein. so in all the things you try so i mostly. eat. meet now yeah and i landed on that. there's several. things you know obviously i'm not. but i do a lot of sport yeah and i was. very surprised how my particular very. specific body can perform. uh better with only me.

why better the sports i do the mind. matters and so for some reason my mind. is just clear yeah and i i don't think. because it feels unhealthy it just makes. me feel really good i don't think i. would recommend it to anybody else. so. it's. it's interesting that that journey. of just exploring can take you to figure. out something about your own self. one of the most interesting things that. i heard about nutrition. was i heard there was actually doritos.

yeah. yeah yeah yeah i'm an idiot. uh. now. i do i'd say over the last couple years. i've really gone into the into carbs a. lot and high glycemic carbs and you know. just to i feel like it's one of the best. things you can do if you're working out. really hard just cheers add carbs yeah. exactly. um. but. oh where was i. so good so you've had. distracted syrup i forget everything. this is distracting no the so you've.

added the high glycemic carbs into the. mix so that you those help but that's. for mass building right so. there was a study that i heard about by. somebody who's trying to identify heart. attacks they did this great big study. and at the end of it i mean didn't. matter what the people ate. the the most important thing was how. they felt about the food that they were. eating. yeah. so. if you believe in the food if you. believe that it's going to do good. things for you and if you allocate it.

the right way it's it's going to have a. positive impact. and i try and do that no matter what it. is like i have my foods that i think do. certain things. and so. you know for me i know that. actually i mean i learned about corn fed. pumps when i was overseas. uh i realized that if i i never used to. eat crap really didn't i ate super clean. all the time. and.

when i was faced with imminent death. more. i would be like okay i'm going out. tonight let's have let's have a couple. ice cream bars. you know like whatever. and. what i realized is. if i eat like an entire bag of chips or. like you know a bunch of chocolate bars. and then i go and have a workout. my workout will be incredible. it'll be incredible. um.

there's something about. easily processed carbohydrate. that will continue to quickly. get into your blood. as fast as you can burn it. and. there's something about that that uh. well it gives you incredible blood blood. flow yeah. and also your mind plugging in enjoying. that right. and then believing it works and that's. how it makes it work better exactly i. mean i i feel that way i think this is.

really not. this has been frustrating to me about. the health culture in the united states. in the studies. that are done you know you look at like. the importance of sleep the importance. of ex diet. all those kinds of things i i wish. incorporated into that would be. your mental relationship with all of. these things so for example people that. tell me well your sleep schedule is. insane. yes. perhaps. but also it's insane because i'm doing.

what i love and i don't see it as a. problem right and i. i think that's really important to. understand if if you if you're. if you sleeping crazy hours uh. is not affecting your stress and it's. actually making you happy or you're. drawing some kind of source of. happiness and pleasure and satisfaction. like being awake when others aren't it's. like the. mike tyson thing or something like. training when you you've convinced. yourself everybody's sleeping and.

therefore you're somehow training much. better right that's powerful even if you. look statistically. six hours maybe worse than eight hours. or four hours maybe worse than six hours. so the mind is a powerful thing super. powerful. but if you want to be a super. heavyweight eat. you gotta eat like stupid amounts. all the time yeah you have to test your. digestive system what's your favorite. meal by the way just if you have to you. know ah. meal i am.

uh i do oh geez i like so much food. that's tough but i'd say the food that i. rely on a lot when i'm uh getting ready. to compete is sushi just because it. normally comes in an all-you-can-eat. format. you know uh. so you know i love to go and just binge. all you can eat just all you can eat. buffets sushi is just super convenient. yeah. if i was a sushi all-you-can-eat buffet. place i'll be terrified when i saw you. uh. have you had barbecue at texas i yeah i.

love it i love it yeah. so you uh just a small tangent on this. you you uh face the mountain. uh you have for uh uh bjorn well first. of all you arm wrestle them yeah it's. interesting to ask um so this is the. mountain from the game of thrones. uh a strong man one of the strongest. people in the world for tom the. strongest person in the world what was. it like i know sort of you guys maybe. weren't going 1 000. but what's it like well he probably. wasn't going a thousand percent.

yeah but like what it's interesting to. think. what does that strength feel like so. it's a it's a specialized strength in. another sport yeah what did it feel like. what how strong. was he what are some kind of. deep insights he drawn from that battle. i feel like if we were to go back. a thousand years. and if you give him armor. and a two-handed sword.

he will just. rip across the landscape. and no one will stop him so this is the. boxing match you tune into but there's. also a video of them arm wrestling. yeah what a titan though what a titan uh. you know a guy like that. tall yeah strong fit disciplined. i mean he is uh he's quite a warrior 119. pounds oh yeah yeah he's. he's incredibly impressive uh i really.

like happ thor and i like eddie hall too. and i was just so i'm just so caught up. with the drama. okay so. so eddie hall and half thor burnsen yes. two of the strongest legendary strong. strongmen that we have. uh. at you know and they were the coolest. they were the top when strongman was. really super cool. uh. i don't know all the details. but they legit hit each other. like legit so i think it kind of stems i.

don't know like like i say i'm not right. there with them but. uh. eddie won. the the world's strongest man event or. something one year and like and the. thing it was one of those victories. where. hapthor you know was not accepting of. his defeat. okay and there was a little bit of back. and forth basically from what i. understand they were gonna fight like. the knight of the world's strongest man. and they got kind of got pulled apart. and this uh this heat between them got.

translated into a potential boxing match. so it's very real. it's a very real fight so you have the. two strongest dudes on the planet. are going to fight each other. so so i've been like you know because. arm wrestling is strong man it's it's. kind of similar communities uh. who who do you got. if you if you're giving me financial. advice oh jesus i am so bad i always. call it wrong they're very different uh. i i see uh.

hap thor's being you know more eddie. hall is slimming down is that what yeah. wow i see hapthor is a bit more. regimented. um but i see eddie hall as like way more. barbaric and like a little i think he's. a little bit more athletic. but app thor's bigger and uh and you. know they've chosen slightly different. paths to prepare for the match but but. what happened was like they were about. to fight. and eddie hall blew his bicep.

so me i was getting ready for lavonne in. december we were supposed to arm us in. december but. he's got his movie. and so i was like okay i can kind of get. away from the sport just a little bit. broaden my base. that happened and i was like. oh an opportunity you stepped in an. opportunity to fight i'm like i'll do it. so how much training you uh you you. trained a little bit so can you tell. about your own decision to do that what. was the training like what was it yes. like oh it was so much fun it was so.

much fun. uh so basically. i made a funny video and i sent it to. the organizers of core sports that i. would do it i'm like i'll do it i'm sure. they got a thousand people who wanted to. do it uh but i'm like i'm like listen. i'm like i i'm an old man like i'm. gimped up like everywhere outside the. arm wrestling lanes. uh i said but but i will 100 like if you. let me fight him i'll i'll give it my. all. and uh. and whatever they didn't get back to me. they're like whatever okay so then so.

then they call me on a friday like five. weeks before the event. and they're like hey devin were you. serious. and i'm like oh shit. and i'm like yes i was serious yeah i'll. do it and they're like okay. um. they're like it's down to you and like. two other people uh we'll get back to. you in a day or two but you would do it. i'm like okay so they got back to me on. sunday.

like so right away i'm like skipping. rope and i'm like and i'm so i only arm. wrestle legs that's all i do so what was. your you did some yeah. striking training yeah so i went to um. this guy that he was he was awesome zach. ben bushida there uh that was it from. from tristar do you know for us the. hobby. uh and that's and yes people in the. comments i will interview him on this. podcast people. he's brilliant. right he's an incredible guy so right.

away like i had no idea about the fight. community across canada really. and i got like. by the fifth message that said you must. train with ferraz uh i was like okay. called him up he was incredible right. away he's like yeah you can come and. we'll just work with you. so. i got i got the call i called him on. like monday. at two o'clock. by like seven o'clock i had my things. packed and i went to montreal. and i spent four weeks. in in the fighter dorms just humbling.

yourself yeah every day just getting. punched in the face. you know uh. over and over uh. going for runs with all like they're all. like olympians and pro fighters living. in the dorms super cool dudes they were. so good to me yeah there's a good video. of you and uh for us uh just talking. yeah i don't i don't remember which. stage this was but this is early but. you're already beginning to get humbled. oh man i knew i mean i knew what i was. getting into like i knew it was i knew.

it was gonna be a losing battle but i. felt like the opportunity to fight thor. like how cool is that like i had i i had. to say i had to do it. um. i love the process and i learned a lot. from doing it. like the dorms i want to do something. like that with arm wrestling i think. we're big enough now that we can have. these kind of uh you know dorms frat. houses whatever you want to call it. what's the dorm like so you're basically. staying there yeah food is there yeah so.

you can you can you mentioned uh what. was the word use administration yeah. exactly that's it so it removes all of. that makes it so simple you can just. focus you know the gym is here. you live here yeah. you know that your life becomes simple. yeah. so there's a guy named jimmy pedro here. in america he's a famous uh coach. there's a place up in boston he has kind. of a dorm like that too yeah and it that. becomes essential. when the community is small but you're. trying to do epic things right like.

winning olympic gold so you have to. really put the people together. in these kind of minimalist conditions. when they just focus on the training. focus focus focus yes um. yeah it wasn't enough time i mean i. trained for about yes three or four. weeks. uh but i loved the journey and. what are some of the fun things you. enjoy so you did mostly striking did you. uh yeah i guess it was yeah it was. boxing it was straight up box boxing. yeah. what what are some things that were. transferable what are some cool things.

you learned from that. so from the world of armor have you. taken anything back like some. training regimens ideas about training. even just. even movements. because for us is a. unique mind as well for training. yeah i i don't know i mean i've gone. very far down the path of arm wrestling. uh boxing and arm wrestling are very. different they're they're very different. sports uh.

the the physicality required is very. different uh you know the mentality i. mean it's fighting so it's another form. of fighting which is cool the the big. things that i took back from it. the things that i loved about it was i. had to run again. you know. so really work on endurance yeah. yeah i was going for runs with guys in. the dorms and they'd. they would just destroy me just like it. was. so bad.

uh. did you uh. like how did you feel in the actual. boxing in terms of endurance. were you able to no. it's just torture it was it was terrible. and and the thing is is it was so crazy. for me because. i really was good once upon a time yeah. i really was like physically like i had. incredible full-body endurance you know. um but you know being so specialized i. realized how much i had slipped.

and. yeah it was it was fun to try and regain. i think it's affected my body. composition i think since that training. i've become much more lean. uh i think was a very healthy thing for. me to do like health-wise like i always. think that you know when you're far away. from competition it's really good to. kind of spread out really good so i. think that in that way also for your. mind yeah yeah just like mm-hmm. yeah. yeah it's just something about clearing. your.

i i think you've talked about this it's. like uh. you're basically taking steps back. before you take steps forward is i. forget how you call yeah the wave yeah. yeah under. you know you have to go under you gotta. you know if you want to go above the. line you have to spend some time beneath. it. and yeah i was definitely beneath the. line for a long time yeah uh but. mountain i mean. like the interesting thing was as. incredible as he is. uh you know.

like what a monster and i think if you. hadn't had. him. training in boxing you know for a long. time and like from his youth i think he. you know the guy could be world champion. but. you know to be so specialized and then. to switch you're at a disadvantage yeah. and and also like i know. from just fighting guys in the gym. in tristar. some of those guys were way scarier. for real like as scary as thor is.

like there's guys in that tristar gym. that don't look like anything. that would murder me. much worse. much worse. yeah but also you know that's the. difference between being in the gym and. under the lights too i mean uh gsb is an. example of george st pierre as an. example somebody that maybe doesn't look. yeah terrifying is that a tristar yep. he's he trains a tristar but he's quite. he's super nice. super uh. humble but is terrifying when he's.

fighting right it's dominating people. you mentioned. death yeah and your canadian. special forces. and in general thinking about mortality. yeah do you think about your death do. you. do you contemplate the the end that this. thing that this ride ends. all the time yeah from uh i've thought. about death from a young age are you. afraid of it. yeah i hate it yeah i don't want to die. yeah definitely definitely don't want to.

die. but there's times when i can rid myself. of it yeah but for sure i mean i i'm not. uh. i'm not happy that. you know death is inevitable. and i'm not happy that potentially it's. inevitable for all of us. um. but uh it does. you know i like to to fight against it. does it yeah that's true if you if you. could be immortal would you. that's my only wish.

oh see but here's the thing that's but. the point is to have that wish. it's uh it's like the all-you-can-eat. buffet at uh sushi. it's that sushi's more delicious if you. have. a limit do you have a song well. i don't know. i mean i don't think i get sick of stuff. i'm very simple. yeah i don't think i would get tired of. it i really don't um i mean if someone. would pose it to you do you want to live. forever you would choose no. yeah i would just no choose no well my.

answer is probably yes. uh like. no i would uh it's more like the snooze. button. do you want to do do you want to go to. sleep. but it's very difficult in the moment to. go to sleep but if if. i'm uh allowed to live forever. i'm going to. uh delay. all the crazy. like um all the ambitious goals all the. all the things because ah there's always.

time that's fine but there is tomorrow. then but there is tomorrow but see i. think that takes away from the richness. of like. the richness of the lived experience of. just each moment i think the richness of. each moment comes from saying like i. could die tonight. like that that it tastes delicious. because you're going to die i'm a i'm. afraid if you're not i'm afraid all that. goes away all that magic goes away if. you can live forever. i don't know.

but i'll tell you every time i have a. near-death experience or think i'm gonna. die i definitely live better afterwards. yeah. like uh it's always been that way but. yeah no um that's why the stoics you. know they really preach. contemplating your mortality often it. kind of. reminds you it could this whole thing. could just end any moment and it makes. you really appreciate. yeah i don't know. i don't know. certainly improving the quality of life.

is important. but um. part of me thinks that immortality. is is not as fun as um. would like to imagine. do you think that maybe. you're uh. in what you're building potentially is. immortal well that's what i definitely. think about with robots. if they were to have a human-like. experience. and be able to interact with humans in a.

deep meaningful way. i think they too have to be mortal in. some fundamental way that means mortal. like their ride has to end as well. because. they won't be able to interact with. humans deeply unless that's the case. um like to have. to have fear. to have. love. the ability to suffer. the ability to miss somebody. i think.

scarcity is important you have to be. able to. truly lose somebody. you have to be to to fear things you. have to truly have. the risk of destroying yourself. and to have a sense of what it means to. be a self. you have to be able to lose it. so if you're immortal. you're just going to be i feel like. you're going to be like a toaster an. intelligent toaster that just serves.

such a negative perspective on it and. then mortality yeah just think well now. you just you can get all those things. done that you want to do i hope you're. right i hope you're right yeah i i mean. potentially you could invest even harder. because you're like wow i'm actually. gonna be able to get all this stuff done. i i think about this a lot i hope you're. right but i. i fear that the drive to create i can. even do more all of that dissipates. disappears. if you have all the time in the world i.

just know how lazy i am. and if i have all the time in the world. i'm just gonna sit there. and just like watch. the stupidest youtube videos for the. rest of all eternity. ah now eternity's a long time eat. doritos. cheetos and just get. fatter and fatter i can get in shape. later there's always time. that's like a long period of. contemplation yeah. so for the first thousand years it'll be. the dorito period of the lex life and.

then yeah. if you could you could be like jabba the. hutt for a thousand years you mentioned. aliens very important topic do you. actually think about. about this has been an increased. interest. and there's been increased ufo sightings. and encounters all that kind of stuff. the u.s government at least releasing. data. release releasing videos of. uh pilots. uh pilot observations and from airplanes. of ufos do you think about this kind of.

stuff because you met you mentioned in. the following context you mentioned like. our simas will get our shit together. when the aliens eventually come. yeah um. what do you make of all the sightings is. that something you think about. i thought about it a lot when i was. younger um and i've just i made my. conclusions and. yeah i i don't think that there's a. possibility that there aren't aliens i. would think it would be impossible for. them not to be aliens uh they're you. know.

um you know i feel like this is pretty. good real estate so. you know yeah you'd probably want it but. we already might be. well i don't even think might i mean. it's probably quite likely that we are. to some degree aliens i mean all life is. probably to some degree alien i like the. real estate so the resources but we're. also kind of interesting. yeah whatever this ant colony. of living organisms that we've created. it's kind of interesting to study. i i tend to believe that the alien. civilizations that are.

going to reach us or have reached us. are far more intelligent. just orders of magnitude more. intelligent than us and so it's going to. be very difficult both ways actually for. us to understand them and for them. to dumb themselves down enough to. understand us yeah probably so. they might even just. miss our existence all together just. because it because. i tend to believe i don't know what you. think that we're not that special. in terms of all the life forms in the.

universe there's a lot of cool stuff out. there and has to be. has to be but to us we're special yeah. well that's all that matters right yeah. even the human species is the most. special to us humans that could be much. more special species here on earth they. were just totally oblivious to like. trees. on a scale of thousands of years maybe. they're like they're on to something. lex you know um.

i think that. so much of what makes a person special. is what they pass on your kids but but i. think that you are quite special. because. you're part of this thing that's. potentially giving birth to the next. thing. the robots the robots i should say the. funny thing is while talking to devon. during this podcast i i would a doorbell. ring had to go downstairs and there was. a big. box.

menacing box with a new legged robot. so um. the hilarity of you saying that is. because that that that robot. is actually going to likely be the main. robot that i show to the to the world. in the coming months because that has. the. that's the highest compute level in that. robot so i've been playing a lot with. legged robots the um. four legs so like a like a dog. um. i like all of robots.

but there's something about when a robot. has legs it's able to communicate. it's able to connect with humans in some. kind of deep way in the way a dog can. just show affection something about like. step step step step. and then and then the robot realizes. you're here and then it steps and then. notices you and the way the dog does and. raises its head. um it makes me feel. noticed and hurt in the same way i do. when a dog notices me that excitement.

that stupid excitement of like yes. uh fellow living organism and. what excites me about legged robots is. that. holy shit is possible to engineer this. it's possible to create that feeling and. i wonder where that can go there's a lot. of negative possible trajectories. but i have a sense that there's positive. ones too you you have more love they'll. take us with them. yeah i think so because i i so.

there's this fear of robots. that they become super intelligent and. run away from us humans and basically. become so intelligent and then they. almost. just not giving a damn will destroy us. but i think in order for for robots to. become intelligence they have to. integrate themselves with society. so. they they by the very nature of of how. they become intelligent have to bring us. along. so.

it's not that there will be this. separate thing they have to. like we'll have robots in the home. they'll be interacting with us you have. human kids and you have a bunch of. robots you have robot friends you have. human friends and they the robots make. your human-to-human relationships much. more meaningful and richer they bring. more love to the world but they it's. integrated it's not like they'll. be developing smarter and smarter. um. as like um. sentient beings by themselves i think.

that's very difficult to do you have to. be doing that together with humans and. so we'll come for the ride there's. technical things. like we might merge like cyborgs. more and more well we already saw our. cyborgs right with the phones and so on. but more and more so with elon and. neuralink. deeper integration of. robots and ai into. like. increasing the bandwidth at which they. can communicate right so if we do. implants in the brain.

i think. again a lot of people are really nervous. about this. as am i but i think there's a lot of. trajectories that are positive there. and that to me is excited and also i. just don't think it's possible to stop. this development so we should uh steer. it yeah. yeah. oh good did you i mean you must have. watched the movie terminator right yeah. of course i love turbinator yeah. much worse than my favorite movie of all. time. yeah. yeah i mean that's that's the big fear.

right. yeah what's the conclusion with. terminator isn't ultimately humanity. wins. i think they're at like terminator 8 now. yeah you know i don't know. uh. yeah the. so there and it's interesting actually i. was going to bring this up as you were. talking about it but. uh. but china and the united states actually. don't know where canada is on this but. they both have agreed. that they're not going to put limits on.

autonomous weapon. uh system development so not going to. they're not going to so because china. said we're not going to now us. officially announced that. we're not we can't well you can't it's. like it's. you never could right as soon as it. exists and it's better. people will use it well but you um. there's been a global ban on bio weapons. so you were able to come to an agreement. there that we're not going to use. biological weapons in war.

so it was it's a lot of people are. really upset that in the case of. ai driven weapons. the world said nope that's okay. and so now you have this. potential for. greater and greater automation in drones. for example in picking uh bombing. locations. and. so the area at which they attack and so. you get. some of that stuff that you mentioned. that. that drew you.

to the military. is that teamwork between humans that. decision making so their strategy but. built into that team. is a. deep humanity. like. yeah even when there's an enemy there's. lines. that you are aware of of what is ethical. what is not what is just and what is not. and it's so easy for a machine. uh to uh. to miss all of that plow through it and.

do. deeply inhumane acts commit atrocities. that that's something that. worries a lot of people yeah. because uh yeah an ai based war is just. is it it's terrifying especially with. cyber security which is becoming more. and more of an issue which is hacking. yeah. sort of uh. people that look a lot like me. being the warriors of the future yeah. which is meaning people behind a.

a keyboard versus uh right. versus the traditional warriors. probably inevitable. yeah. and terrifying it is it is but i think. if you believe that it's possible it's. certainly going to happen like at some. point it's just when. right when does it happen anyway so that. i mean to me i'm optimally. ultimately optimistic about the future. and to me i'm excited about the world.

with ai i'm even excited about uh. the metaverse and all these kinds of. things. living more and more in the digital. space in the virtual reality. i think. so it's a part of me that grew up in the. non-internet world non-computer world. you know it says all kids these days. with their video games you know there's. part of me that's like that. um but. i think what's it. when technology at his best can bring. out the best. of humanity. and so i think virtual reality.

all of these things over time will. figure out how to. how to fix it to bring out the humanity. social networks the the first generation. social networks now facebook twitter and. so on they have so many problems they're. bringing out the worst in people. but i think we're learning from that and. i think the next generation of social. networks will be better and better and. better. and. so i'm optimistic but of course you know. one reason we may have not seen aliens.

yet obviously like in a way that's. obvious. is because once you get clever and smart. and have all this cool technology you. destroy yourself and we sure as humans. are pretty close to that. yeah yeah there might be that limit that. is hard to get right i'm hoping we get. all our aggression between nations out. through arm wrestling. competition right. wouldn't that be great if that was if it. was that simple. yeah do you know if there's another.

over-the-top type movie to be made oh. yeah yeah there's always stuff in the. works um there's actually a there's a. there's a tournament called over the top. in australia that's a couple months away. i think they're doing all the over top. scene but uh there are arm wrestling. movies that are being made right now. actually i'm there's a documentary. that's filming me for this whole avon. thing but. yeah we're probably due for another big. one. yeah but you're also just with your. youtube channel you're doing a lot for. the sport that's really cool to see just. being genuine but just being.

like. uh looking not like you're looking today. but just like yeah yeah the beard yeah. yeah yeah normally it's like sleepy. you know and just putting yourself out. there completely as you are that's a. beautiful thing the best thing about the. sport is it brings people together. that's it yeah the community the folks i. got to interact with just so awesome so. excited so full of kindness i'm. definitely going to find the club here. and uh. and start working on my. uh on my arm wrestling game uh devon.

this is such a huge honor that you would. uh. spend your valuable time you'd come down. to austin. you would um. hang out with me and uh do this kind of. super cool stocky lex yeah as i. mentioned uh in case people you know. people i'm sure will tell me. so i hang out with joe rogan all the. time he's a friend i told him that he. should talk to devin he's going through. some stuff currently. you know uh but i'm sure i hope the.

conversation between you devin and joe. happens eventually. he's uh that would be epic as well. because he's a. um yeah he's fighting he loves fighting. he loves wrestling he loves strength. and i think all of those are um. like so perfectly encapsulated in the. sport of arm wrestling so thank you so. much for talking today thanks so much. lex. thanks for listening to this. conversation with devon larritt to. support this podcast please check out.

our sponsors in the description. and now let me leave you with some words. from miyamoto musashi. the only reason a warrior is alive is to. fight. and the only reason a warrior fights. is to win. thank you for listening and hope to see. you. next time. you.