Chris Duffin: The Mad Scientist of Strength | Lex Fridman Podcast #207

the following is a conversation with. chris duffin. the mad scientist of strength he's one. of the strongest. people in the world but is also an. engineer of some of the most. innovative strength equipment i've ever. seen check out his company. kabuki strength he is the only person. who squatted. and deadlifted 1 000 pounds for multiple. reps. and achieved many other amazing feats of. strength he has lived one hell of a life. of hardship and triumph as he writes. about in his book.

called the ego and the dragon quick. mention of our sponsors. headspace magic spoon sun basket. and ladder check them out in the. description to support this podcast. as a side note let me say that i was. always a fan of strength. both power lifting and olympic. weightlifting. both as a fan and practitioner. mostly i'm a fan of people who are. willing to put in years of hard work. towards finding out what the limits of. their body is and then.

smashing past those limits people like. chris duffin. or on the olympic weightlifting side. people like. dmitry klokov that guy's great. this is why i love watching the olympics. both the heartbreaks and the triumphs. they all reveal the incredible heights. that the human mind. and the human body can reach this is the. lex friedman podcast. and here is my conversation with chris. duffin. you've been a part of several incredible.

feats of strength. which was the hardest or maybe one. you're most proud of. definitely the one i'm most proud of is. that journey. for the the grand goals it was like a. five-year scope that i chased this. and so when you think about training it. took more than five years obviously. by that point i've been training for. over 25 years. but it makes me proud i mean there was. three distinct things that i wanted to. accomplish out of this so it was really. thought out. um and this was kind of my exit from.

being a. a competitive lifter and basically. saying hey i'm gonna be. you know an instagram lift or an uh. exhibition lift or a whatever. i've done this for 16 years i was number. one in the world for like eight years. straight all-time world records and i'm. like i'm not going to do that anymore. what i want to do. is just something deep down to me that. is really important. and there's three things that were. driving this and this is a five year. journey that i. that i went through to do this i really.

wanted to showcase. that you could do something that is well. beyond the scope of what people think is. humanly possible so. just this inspiration thing this. grand over the top like if you set your. mind to a single-minded goal you can go. so much further and i didn't even say. what the goal was up front. because it was so far out there i would. have been laughed at and that's. i i think big goals should be kept. pretty damn close uh to start with for.

that reason too. um but and then the second piece was to. to to walk the walk to show. like the principles of what i believed. in around human movement. um the ability to manage and control the. spinal mechanics and the output that can. have on the body. and so i wanted to take the two most. basic movements that. every able-bodied person should be able. to do so fundamental. movement patterns the squat which is. like in the developmental approach is. around nine months as a baby from a. developmental kinesiology. standpoint and a really basic pattern.

that. every able-bodied person should be able. to master the other one being the hip. hinge. being able to pick something up off the. ground a deadlift. and i wanted to do those two not just. one. because i wanted to show the principles. that i wasn't. uh built for one i wasn't a specialist. because of. my lever links torso links all that any. outliers. because nobody had ever done a thousand.

pound squat so this is it. is and a thousand pound deadlift. it was outside of the scope of what. anybody's there's like half a dozen. people that have done one. or the other but nobody's ever done both. and i wanted to do something unique i. wanted to do them. not only do it but do them for reps to. leave literally. no question out there and there's no. competition for that. so it was this is what i'm gonna go do. and. to pull it off i had some past issues.

with my elbows and stuff that i couldn't. work around so i had to wear. straps which was another reason i. couldn't do it in the competition. setting. so the first year i worked up and i did. a thousand and two. pound deadlift we plates were weight. afterwards it was a couple a little bit. over. and i did it for almost three reps. and that still stands as a guinness. world record the just the one rep does. is the most weight ever sumo deadlifted. and. one other person has deadlifted a. thousand for reps at this point and that. was uh thor.

bjornsson uh from game of thrones he's. done a thousand for a double as well so. then the next four years and i did a. bunch of feats of strength on the way. but it was. all about building that axial loading. capacity the strength of because now i'm. moving the weight from my hands up to my. shoulders. and so to do it for reps is like so much. harder than a single. like 5 to 10 seconds versus 30. plus seconds to be able to buffer and. manage all that. with that kind of load is just crazy so.

it's literally about the duration that. your body is carrying the load. yeah that's a big part of it yeah. because you have to. you're using the resource of the. diaphragm for stabilization. and so it it's also responsible for. respiration and all this other stuff so. even when you're not squatting you've. got to be handling those loads. just holding that weight is fascinating. it's like it's fascinating that the. human body. can do that can can maintain that. structure. just everything working together that. the biology.

the skeletal structure the the. musculature on top of that can. hold the weight it's fascinating to. watch everything is very intentful about. positioning. and how you're creating pressure and all. this sort of stuff especially for me so. when i mentioned that. half a dozen people have squatted it and. half a dozen people have deadlifted it. you understand those people all weigh. 380 to 440 pounds. i weighed 265 to 285 depending on the. where i was between the two. so there's that as well right so big big. difference. and uh over the course of that i did a.

lot of. other feats of strength that fit in that. capacity and we can skip over those but. that was hugely invested as far as you. know. what i put into being able to accomplish. that because it's it's over the top. which means. the other stuff had to shift and i had. to learn something. there's so many things that came into. place to pull that off and so yeah last. march. two days before the world shutdown i did. it it was supposed to be. at the largest equipment exhibition in. the world down in san diego.

as an event and that got shut down a. week beforehand obviously so we moved to. let's do it in my gym and invite people. and that was on a saturday and thursday. or friday they limited it to. 25 people for gatherings i did it on. saturday. and then monday everything shut down so. wow. it was kind of surreal for timing-wise. right and so if i hadn't done it it. would have never got done like because i. i'd pushed to the limit i couldn't come. back and do it it was at the total. limitation of my capabilities so.

i'm pretty i'm pretty proud of it and. the last piece was uh. every one of these feats along the way i. collaborated with a charity that i. believed in and there was a lot of those. tied to my life. story uh which we probably will get into. um so it was threefold so that. inspiration piece. inspiration motivation walking the walk. and showing. like just the these methodologies that a. guy that. had to learn to walk again can do. something like this with no back pain if.

you. if you there is a way and the third one. is is to provide awareness and. recognition around a lot of. um key charities so so. your heart was in this journey but also. your mind is just you're like a scholar. of strength a scientist of strength an. engineer of strength. for reps do a thousand pounds squat and. deadlift. let's first talk through the actual day. you did it. what does it take to lift that much.

for reps the day of is really easy. the really the lift itself other than a. few seconds. is really easy and not challenging. people always ask me. what was it like how beat up were you. after that and the deadlift and the. simple fact is it was easy. the work to get there was horrendous. so so even the psychology of the day. you weren't there was not a fear there.

was not a nervousness there was not a. doubt. in your mind uh there were certainly. doubts on that day um. from some training history so there was. some major. breaks to my confidence in the couple. months leading up. where i had issues with passing out. under the bar so completely losing. consciousness and this was. on weight less than a thousand pounds. even so. that was like all this build up in me. going. what if what if it i think i have this.

resolved. but what if i get up there and i can't. even do a rep. how embarrassing will this be that i've. been talking about this and planning for. this for so long. but outside of that i knew i could do it. in fact i wanted to do even more even up. to the. the second rep training is about you. know working. into a fatigue state so you're building. uh an amount of fatigue in your system. and then when you let off of it that's. when you get a compensation and that's.

how you stair-step training this is. periodization but leading into a big. event. you're accumulating this massive amount. of fatigue and so. i was performing at a level that i could. do it and so i knew. i was going to be able to on meet. because then you then you give yourself. that window. to be able to recover and super. compensate and be able to do a little. bit more so like that first rep when i. did it. strength wise i went i could do this for. five reps. like it went through my head i'm like. dealing i mean it was easy and it was.

fast and it felt like amazing and i'm. like i'm gonna crush this. and then set rep two uh the realization. kicked in is like. oh this is for reps with a thousand. pounds on your back. and you're fatiguing just like and then. the third one was. every last thing i could muster to just. finish that i mean. i just barely got it done because it's. the strength is. like there but like that capacity to be. able to manage. all those resources for that amount of. time because not just leg strength when. we're talking about this stuff so.

what does it take to go from the. from i don't know what like from 500 to. a thousand. that feels like a journey that's like. exponential. it's it is exponentially harder it does. in the early 2000s like i said i started. lift in 1988. um but my first meet in the early 2000s. my. my max deadlift was 523 and my first. squat was 550. so uh friends that's a heck of a journey.

it is a journey for people that like to. lift. what should they understand about the. difference between doing 500 and a. thousand. in terms of the actual lift that you. were experiencing that day. in terms of the mechanics in terms of. all the things you have to be like the. neurological adaptation you mentioned. the breathing. the core strength what like techniques. like little tricks. psychological tricks anything that kind. of stands out to you. the level of intent and the opportunity.

for. error are at a different level so. just the minutes changes of position by. quarter inch. half inch can be make or break at that. level so. these things everything gets amplified. so the ability to start with having. the pelvis just in the right orientation. to the diaphragm before we start. initiating what we call the the. eccentric loading of the abdominal. cavity. to create this intra-abdominal pressure. of working against.

this outward expansion working against. the outer sheath of. abdominal thoracic lumbar musculature. obliques. causing the co-contraction at the pelvic. floor. all this stuff and how you cue that. because you can't think about all this. stuff you need to break it down and. distill and practice to like it's. one simple cue that we now lock down. and control this torso stability because. this is what these fundamental movements. are about is being able to control. our spinal mechanics and then now be.

able to. maintain that while articulating the. joints around that through a range of. motion uh and then using. the main power drivers so in this. instance both instances. it's the you know the hip complex to. generate. that power and transfer it from how. we're rooted and connected to the floor. through to the distal end you know which. would be the barbell on the shoulder. you know there's a couple key concepts. so one is that what we just talked. through is.

how to actually maintain that stability. so if you have. either the diaphragm so which is. connected at the rib cage so out of. alignment. in any position it needs to be in. alignment. with the pelvic of the pelvis so those. two in opposition so this is simple. engineering here. because what we're going to do is. eccentrically load this we're going to. use the diaphragm just like you would in. a diaphragm pump. where it's going to press down on all. the tissue in there so we're not using. breath. so our breath was actually a lot of.

times a default pattern when people do. that because they'll bring it into their. chest. and raise their rib cage so. what we want to do is just initiate the. diaphragm air can be used as well over. the top. at the final to create just a little bit. more downward pressure. but if we have out of alignment there we. have. a pressure get leak where it's going to. be push out the front or the rear if. you're either in flexion or extension. all right and then that causes this. co-contraction and all this pressure of.

of uh the organs essentially against. outward against all those tissue for the. co-contraction as well as surrounding. the spine to be able to stabilize that. and then it puts all the muscles on both. sides of the body. in what we call the the best length. tension relationship so if you think. about a curl and we reach our arm out. at the extended length our bicep is not. as strong. and then all the way in the curl. position it's not in strong there's. somewhere in here that. this control of both and so when you're.

sitting there. arched or bent over we have muscles that. are. past either one of those ranges so. they've got a lot of tension which then. will create relaxation on the other side. right so we want to have. and all of that needs to be working and. now the next important thing is the foot. so it's actually this connection to the. ground. and how we're actually using the foot. and ankle complex. to grab and grip this connection to the. ground. and elicit uh an effect and because of. this.

and then the everything between will. naturally kind of do what it needs to do. so people like to focus on knee knee. position or how far out their hips are. or all this other stuff which is outputs. of this. so if we control the torso and the knee. the only thing that can happen from that. point. is for the squat to happen. all right um so this allows us to use. this massive. you know the hip complex for all the. muscles around that that are.

built to drive through hip extension to. complete the squat. i did actually miss one thing in there. so this torso people. often miss the lat is a spinal. stabilizer as well. so that's key in controlling function at. the the tl junction. which is um just above the the lumbar. spine so. kind of right opposite where your. sternum is and you'll see people kind of. roll over sometimes like an olympic. squad or something like that where they. lose position. and that's often because they're close. grip because you can't engage the lats. very well that way and they're pushing.

up in the bar. but you want to be able to drive and. pull the bar to your center and that's. going to create and use the lats now to. drive. and connect the shoulder into this. we're kind of compressing and tightening. all this stuff towards that center to. create. that entire torso stability that's why i. was using torso stability not just. core stability uh in my conversation. earlier. okay so there's all these like modules. yeah with the body. then connected to the grounding with. like your feet on the ground.

everything you're speaking to how do you. work each of those modules. is this over time you kind of develop. the feel that ultimately boils down to. this one simple cue that you mentioned. or do you can you like literally study. each particular module and yourself and. see how it affects the. lift so the best way and i believe it's. because i hate just like. people getting out and just doing just. movement stuff and not actually adding. load because. we only adapt when there's load maybe we.

can get some. you know some proprioception or. awareness of position and other stuff. doing some some corrective patterns and. other stuff. but this is basic physiology. is that there must be an imposed demand. for us to have adaptation and this is. mental this is emotional this is. all these areas um but. and people miss that so i prefer to be. able to. look at a person and this is our. methodology and do the assessment. in any basic loaded movement so with.

developing an eye for that you can. actually see and go. okay we've got a fault pattern right. here in the foot and use a queue or a. set of cues doesn't really matter until. we find the one that works. and bring that and now we know we want. to simplify this stuff i just walk. through that sounds really complicated. and it. it is if we try to break down and. distill it all but like let's just. find the basic stuff that gets us in the. range start working and then find the. next as we add load. now we find where's our next area that. we're starting to fault at and then go. there again next so.

this is what we do what we teach in our. educational platform so we. are the only i believe everybody wants. to do a lot of these like. assessments you know on a bench on the. table body. and and it's like no let's let's go. squat let's go deadlift if you do. strongmen in a ceo carry let's go carry. because these are basic human. fundamentals it's not powerlifting. like this is how we function this is why. we we work with. 29 of the 30 major league baseball teams. and. 90 of all professional sports out there. in north america sorry. although we do some work with tour de.

france and other stuff as well um. and uh north america i do mean hockey. too. but uh these principles like you know if. if the dodgers. won't bring us in they're not learning. how to. power lift you know we're gonna. obviously we'll probably. do we do a little bit more uh shoulder. focus than hip focus with their athletes. or their coaches we're usually working. with coaches not the athletes and so you. help them. and then the same thing on yourself and. to understand the role that these. different muscle groups have.

yes on the holistic yeah so it's all. about. getting the joints in the appropriate. position so that we can. that we can manage loads so that we're. not putting undue stress in the joint. we're getting the proper length tension. we're getting these basic fundamental. things with the body and so. the the largest global impact that you. will have. is through spinal mechanics i can't look. at a shoulder. if i'm not managing this because it's. your spine so for those that are just. listening like. i'm arching and then and then flexing um. that's going to affect shoulder.

extension flexion all these sorts of. things so. it could even affect things down what's. looking at dorsiflexion issues on the. foot like. and then that's why i go to the foot. next because it has the second largest. global impact. and then from there now i'm going to. look at the big energy drivers which is. the hip complex. shoulder complex and then we can start. looking at kind of the peripheral. things but usually that's some sort of. output of the other but. the knees the elbows the things like. that so it's all about. getting the stack which affects. neurology.

so let's talk engineering terms you get. in a car. modern car today and a lot of them will. have this traction control button in. there and there's a big misconception. that. you know i'm i'm out and it's it's. snowier here in austin only rainy well. probably doesn't rain much but. you're going around a corner starts. slipping it's like oh it's going to send. the powers from the wheels that are. slipping through the ones that are. gripping. and keep me from crashing and dying a. fiery death. well that's not how it works it's the. exact same we've got we've got the. we've got the tires which are our foot.

you know the connection to the ground. right we've got the power driver. which is you know the the engine the. transmission delivering. you know the power through it and we've. got the stability our suspension. and then we have the neurology. and what the neurology is doing it's. sensing. that we don't have good stability or. loss of connection somewhere. and so i need to save you from crashing. and hurting yourself. and so it goes to the engine and says. let's retard the timing.

let's reduce the shift patterns and. we're just reducing the power output. and that's straight how the human body. works so when i do this stuff. it's actually affecting that i mean i. can take somebody and do some minute. changes with the neck. position at the thoracic outlet okay and. immediately see an enhancement in power. output and i can measure it we measure. this stuff. with uh velocity uh devices and see like. a 10. boom jump and so if you think about that. what about all your training through the.

years. where you actually had additional. capacity. but you weren't using it because your. traction control was on. now you figure this out stuff and now. you start stacking it now you can see. so much greater so it's not just injury. prevention. this is performance and additive. performance. over time this is huge and people don't. really think about this stuff. but we can turn that stuff off which is. actually going to also again make us.

make us safer but what we want to do is. the performance tuned race car do they. have a traction control button. no they got some amazing tires to grip. the ground. a performance tuned suspension and that. driver is going to put what. his foot to the metal he's going to put. it to the floor. okay that's a performance vehicle that's. what we want to be. i want to continue on that line but. first i have to ask. like how did it feel to accomplish the. grand goal oh my god. okay when you just stand back oh. my thousand pounds for reps what it feel.

like. anybody can go watch the video online. um 12 film by the way got me all. like excited oh well the the movies so. we actually have the final footage of. that the good footage not posted yet so. it's literally just an instagram video. or a phone video right now the only one. online yeah. it's on your youtube channel but it's. dramatic yes it is yeah it came out just. time to the music perfectly too. which is i listened to some odd music uh.

which there's some reason behind that. okay um but um. fooling footage there's a documentary. that's. it's got a little slowed because of. kovit because it's also a backstory of. the eagle and the dragon my book about. why i do. kind of the things that i've done in my. life or that's what i'm assuming the. director is working on i don't really. have. the control of the movie right. but okay but the videos okay incredible. how did it feel how'd it feel. i started crying it was overwhelming.

to have worked so intensely and so long. and hard at something that. pushed every ounce of me to the limit. that. and and i did it i'm getting a little. emotional i did exactly what i said i. was going to fucking do. like and it was it was. overpowering i mean i was just crying. uncontrollably. um just with a mixture of i i don't.

know what th the mixture of emotions is. hard to explain. um because it was. the completion of something it was a new. phase of my. i i mean there's so many things here so. one you set an impossible goal and you. accomplished it one. two is like on the broader humanity. aspect. like how many humans in this world. accomplish. perfection in a particular direction.

required to do this so like you're. basically representing. like uh one little like like little. glimmer. of excellence of the human spirit. there's always more. so understand this this is a basic. fundamental. you can always do better there is no. such thing as perfection you could. always. there is always more so any time you. reach something. any amazing workout or accomplishment in. life. could you have put more into it could. even yes but.

here's the thing i left on my terms. i said this is it i'm going to work. towards i've been training for 30. years i'm gonna do this thing that is un. like i couldn't even. say that i was gonna do it years before. i'm gonna do it and then i'm done. and i didn't leave from an injury i. wasn't forced to i wasn't. i left on i did exactly what i said i i. went to a level that i.

i left on my terms and that's unique. because that's usually not the case. usually you kind of either taper out or. it doesn't matter. i'm talking like anything in life in. general right like. um you taper out you fail you hurt like. you look you lose it. like something you know you roll into. retirement like. you accomplished something truly great. and you walked away in your own terms. is there a sadness completing something. like that.

because it's it's in one. perspective the greatest thing you'll. ever do. and like when you accomplish such a. great height. in some sense you have to face your. mortality at that point. so good question but it is certainly not. the greatest thing that i'll ever do. it's the greatest physical there's. always dude the greatest. yes but. that was an expression of some of my. values. and the way that i want to live it was a.

way of expressing it so. understanding that is hugely fundamental. because we do see so many athletes. get to the end of a career and then they. fall into. a depressive state and struggle with. drugs. alcohol depression so on because they. lost how they identified themself and. trying to figure out where to turn what. to do but a. big central component of their identity. is lost. so i.

knew that this was one way to express. that and my grand goals. have shifted they're shifted to other. outlets that allow me to express that. like my companies. kabuki strength i'm going to change the. face of fitness. as well as all the way through with its. integration with clinical medicine and. telemedicine. and you know i got another five years. before even people see what i'm working. on five years in right now because i had. to invent. equipment i have to develop. methodologies that were talking i had to.

do this stuff that ground layer wasn't. done. to create a cohesive ecosystem of. training methodology tied to the tools. that we're using today to the. environment tied to the clinical. practice assessment tied to the. the interaction between all those and. how that actually needs to be reframed. because so much of this is broken okay. so but there is sadness. i won't deny that and the sadness comes. in. the singularity of focus.

that i had at that time the being. in the process not necessarily doing but. like. having being in this place that the rest. of the world kind of fell away for me in. those final faces to have something. so intense to have a team around me so. focused on supporting and like. it took me a couple months after that. squad i finally one day i woke up and i. was like. oh welcome back to the world like i was.

in such a mental. fog like i was it took me a while to. climb. out of that but that that space that. level of intensity and driving. and living and being in that space. i i do miss that but i also i can't. continue that i couldn't contin like. there's a point of like you push it so. hard. the level to try to go from there is not. acceptable for what you. the impacts that will have on your life. for how you want to live and it was. taking away. those final like i had to do extreme.

things and live in an extreme way to. to get there you're just a genius in. this whole space of strength and health. and by. almost like biology that uh. this strength feat is just one. representation of that. but this particular strength required. that kind of singular focus. which i think i don't know there's. something beautiful about that singular. focus there is often only. truly perfected athletics i see it with. the greatest olympic athletes as well.

the kind of singular focus required. there is incredible it's. somehow some of the most beautiful. things that humans can do and achieve. just that thing. so that's the thing it's like oh that. must be it when we say singularity focus. it's not like. here's it because it it covers a vast. array of stuff like. i was working with people you know. all well yeah all around north america i. wouldn't say anybody around the globe. but professionals coming in working on. different aspects of rehab.

and and recovery and like i mean i'm. tapping all sorts of stuff. in so many platforms from nutrition. to drugs to uh again. like you know various uh chinese. medicine. you know as far as you know but also. humans in your life just love and. and uh positivity and just inspiration. all those kinds of aspects. i mean you probably would have done much. more if you. uh went outside north america and talked. to some russians just between you and i.

some russians possibly they give you. some uh. i don't know those there's some. incredible strength athletes in eastern. europe uh. absolutely um i've got the best one uh. coming. in september uh to get fixed so what do. you mean by fixed. so i'm not sure what his particular. issues are but uh he. has held the all-time world record. repeatedly for a long time. and uh he hasn't competed for some time. and he just reached out saying. he would like to come and have me take a. look and see if i can get him fixed.

because the return. yes okay so it's more injury centric. versus like form. and uh fundamental essential combination. of everything. everybody always wants to focus on the. output how do you how do you give me the. fix for that but. it ties right back into all those other. things right. so uh but yeah the eastern the eastern. bloc. continued to be a dominant force uh in. regards to. uh athletics and strength athletes. without a doubt. some of my big rivals in my competitive. days were. who it was rivalry brings out the best.

in us. can you tell me the story of your. childhood it's definitely outside the. scope of the norm. well today maybe not 150 or 200 years. ago. but uh my parents. highly intelligent you know people. coming out of the bay area. my mom was you know going to school to. be a chemical engineer she was a top. top student athlete graduated of her. school my father was a member of mensah. my stepfather was just a genius but not.

able to really function in society. but my mom was you know she had some. demons and some other stuff and just. she just said one day she's like i just. don't want to be part of society. she still isn't uh lives out in the. desert but uh has her minds but. she wanted to figure out a way to make a. life. outside of that and so that's where we. ended up. is up in the mountains in northern. california and. a lot of that was you know them trying.

to. get into successfully growing marijuana. which. back in that you know wasn't legal back. then highly illegal. and in fact those areas where some of. the areas where lived were quite. dangerous so there's a documentary. murder mountain that came out recently. if you watch that. you'll tie into my book uh just the. understanding of. the stuff that i was talking about. dealing with serial killers. human trafficking police corruption. uh murderers like just.

how real that stuff is if it doesn't. capture you from the book. okay the book by the way is the eagle. and the dragon yeah thank you. yeah it's a great i'm a terrible sales. person like i told you so. but a good uh it's a good title i don't. know if you came up with it but uh. i did yeah so yeah we'll talk about that. anyway we're living by a stream. you know alpha meadow there's no roads. into where you have to hike in. and we've got beams lashed into the. trees up above us because that's where.

our bedding is because there's. rattlesnake dens. all around and six years old i'm being. taught. how to capture and handle live. rattlesnakes. because that's what i need to do to be. safe and you can imagine six years old. sitting there with a live rattlesnake in. your hand grabbing it you know by the. side of the head controlling so it can't. can't bite you and it's just wrapping. itself around your arm and. you're staring like it's only intent is. right then is. to kill you like that's it right um.

you want to take a bath it's filling up. the jug in the stream and setting it out. on the rockster and uh. during the sun so you dump it over your. head and you know not all the living was. that way. you know good part was similar to that. tent living. living in a 16 foot trailer with a. family of six. which is not much bigger than the space. that we're sitting here. so we're talking hard winters with feet. of snow on the ground nowhere to go. i'm living in the back of the pickup. truck in a. just a standard sleeping bag that we get.

from the salvation army not the. not the blow zero so i'm uh i'm i'm not. sleeping well. there's living in homes that were maybe. uh. condemned there's no no doors even on. them no electricity or running water or. one or the other or both. and sometimes a little bit better by the. time we got to high school. we had a mobile home so my stepfather. had won a disability payment because he. had a broken arm that whole time. from an accident a long time ago and. finally got. an award and got a down payment on this.

mobile home that. didn't have again doors on the inside it. did have running water did have. electricity didn't have a kitchen. you know the windows would crank close. and open but they wouldn't close all the. way so the. trim them in with uh plastic to be able. to try to protect from the elements. that was my environment like learning. how to forage for mushrooms i mean. there's summers i would send. and my parents would be out they were in. the drug trade earlier we got taken by. the. by the police and put into.

foster care for for a while which. ties into some of the stories with human. trafficking and honestly. it's in my book but it's really hard for. me to. talk about that stuff um. and obviously not all that's in the book. so but. they got us back we moved to oregon and. they stayed out of the drug trade from. that time. to ensure that they didn't lose us again. but quickly we kind of fell back into. the same thing so at that point it was.

learning about geology and starting to. do mining. and firewood cutting but mostly. mining because pat's broken arm chainsaw. made a little tough. if you remember just the sequence of. moments do you. um are you haunted by the the darker. moments of your childhood. do you remember moments of simple joy. and happiness outside of the. living around dangerous people and the. interactions that came from that.

we were a family like we were a cohesive. unit battling against the world together. we spent all our time together. work play i was there i was helping. raise my my siblings. where i was working with them and you. know it was a constant. like i said we were very physically. active so you know i had that in my. upbringing. plugged for my shoe company barefoot. b-e-a-r. i ran around the wilderness and bare. feet all the time you know but it was. i had a lot of great moments and i'm.

thankful for a lot of that childhood. once we take out the trauma. and the other stuff associated with it. right. and so the connection that i have with. my sisters. um is is is huge um that goes a bit. further to because i am kind of like a. little bit of a father figure because. i was home raising them and then later i. took custody of them. while i was going to school because the. environment at home deteriorated further. their stepfather like i said was.

he wasn't capable of managing life and. my mom had a mental breakdown and took. off to montana. and he descended into madness even worse. actually took my 13 year old sister and. kicked her out in the middle of winter. a couple feet of snow on the ground. because he thought she stole his. favorite cereal bowl. um type so that's when i took in and. i was going to college putting myself. through college and i started taking. custody of my sisters and raising them. so. anyway but we're still like very.

very tight family um it took there was a. few years later. in life like that the connection with my. mother was. kind of broken um i didn't speak to her. for years because. of her basically abandoning my sisters. and me having to come in but. that we've worked through that as best. we can so you. anger on your part it wasn't. there might have been some anger um did. you always love her. yes and i still do and i'm so she's.

taught me. basically everything i know about. strength and perseverance and. living life on your terms and being able. to. to create that and so much of what i am. is from that. right we've all had to learn to. be okay with the way she is because she. is just. blunt but you know she's the one that. figured out that the human trafficking. situation and.

got uh got the da involved and got all. the. she's the one that. i've learned a lot from her and uh did. you inherit some of the demons. almost certainly and i it's something. i've continued like. and my father's side of has been really. tough on that because some of it is. just based genetic as well so my my. stepfather made. i think six or seven attempts on his. life during his lifetime.

one of those in front of me uh his. mother. blew her head off with a shotgun uh her. brother jumped out a window in l.a. their father did something similar and i. don't know how far back it goes. because there is no family except for me. and my my children. you spoke about going to depression. yourself. yeah can you um talk about some of the. darker moments of that have you ever. like many in your family have you ever.

considered suicide yes i have. yes i have you've achieved a lot of. exceptional things in your life. can you talk about those early days of. depression. and how you overcame it yeah. so the things that i did that people. give me accolades for are the things. that i did selfishly. to save myself the things like. taking custody of my sisters being the. person.

that everybody around you know the the. important people relied on the fact that. i had to. step to the plate and be present and be. that person. because if i failed. they failed they would be like the. people that i grew up with. that are dead or in prison. or on drugs and they're either way to to. one of those. right that's where everybody ended and i.

wasn't gonna let that happen. what about saving yourself and so that's. how in those early days that's how i did. it not saying it's the best approach but. it was survivor mentality it was. i can't selfishly do that because i have. them to take care of. right and then that continued where i. would keep putting myself in these. leadership roles or other things and. this always being. this person that was. at the center at the hub that.

forced me to be there and so it's only. in the more recent you know last decade. or so that i have had to really. learn how to come and start confronting. some of those demons and you think man. why is the guy so successful like i mean. and we haven't talked about all the. stuff that i've done but like. i've seen a lot of success in both. business leadership athletics. academics uh entrepreneurship all these.

sorts of things right. but if it wasn't for you know having. kids. and the same being in the position i. wouldn't be here. if it and that's just that's the reality. of it. and i'm learning to to come. and manage those as best i can learning. to. meditate into those things and really. feel what the driver is so i can get to. those. those root understanding um and and. having some guidance doing so like.

if you've got mental health issues this. isn't something that you need to tackle. on your own. like having a professional that can help. guide you on that introspective journey. is is something like. it's not like hey i'm big tough guy i. can handle everything. you know that's fascinating that um. you saved yourself that's quite. powerful to save yourself by uh having. others depend on you and so you can't. fail you can't fuck it up and that's a.

reason to keep. moving forward but on the flip side. that's not. addressing the darkness it's not and. it's probably not a sustainable strategy. either right so i i. recognize these things i don't know and. uh. perhaps it is sustainable perhaps that's. i mean there's something beautiful about. giving yourself basically in service of. others. and thereby creating purpose.

and then like it's almost like fake it. till you make it and then you make it. eventually. that is purpose though that is purpose i. mean you have to. to me life is about. taking your cup and how you choose to. pour it out how you choose to give. what is your purpose what is that. connection with everybody around you. this is. that's that's the intent that's the life. that's that's what life is about. how are you going to help those around.

you how are you going to help the world. you know. your purposes is right here figuring out. what this is. and then how to do that but at the same. time. you can't let that run dry so you have. to make sure. right that you're filling that's the. other side that's the other side right. that's the other side yeah we'll return. to your engineering degree which. you're obviously scientifically. engineering-minded which is fascinating. your book is titled the eagle and the. dragon. uh what do the eagle and the dragon.

symbolize. they're pretty big symbols for me in. fact that covers my entire body. as a tattoo so the first one i had done. is around. 19 years old and so this is or started. at 19. uh it's an uh an eagle that covers my. entire. front you know my stomach rib cage and. and one that was on my back that covered. most of my back and there's. chained at the well at the claw i guess. and the chain wraps down around and.

attaches to to my ankle and there's a. shackle there. and so this was something that i had. done at that age because it was. to me it was a representation of. your potential your strengths your. abilities that you can fly. to whatever height that you want in this. world. the only thing holding you back at the. end of the day is yourself. and this was that's i hadn't necessarily. accomplished a whole lot that time i. mean i was. valedictorian for high school small high.

school. does that even count uh as a state level. wrestler. this was my belief and you sensed that. there was a potential in you. and the only thing that could stop you. from realizing that potential. was yourself that's right that's a heck. of a tattoo. to get by the way at 19 but. 40 hours went into that thing it shows. you got some guts. and then the next tattoo so i only have.

two uh i had done in. 2015 2016. uh when i so at this point in my life. so i had done that i had flown to. whatever heights right so i had. i had proven to myself and and maybe. done what i thought i needed to do to. show the world that. this poor kid from the sticks this. this kid growing up in the mountains. with nothing could achieve the american. dream. i was a corporate executive sought after.

that i'd come in i'd fix companies i'd. turn around and prep them for sale. i'd take a company and grow it from a. regional to a national to a global. presence i did this in the. automotive manufacturing aerospace. manufacturing high tech heavy industry. and i had a house with a white picket. fence. i was a successful athlete with all-time. world records i owned a gym on the side. where i coached people. and uh had a comfortable marriage.

that everything was hunky-dory with no. arguments at home. and uh i walked away from all of it. i left everything behind except for my. kids. i wanted. to chase what i was meant to do. and chase what i was capable of doing. i wanted to become a better version of. myself but.

very intentfully. and that's what i did i. sold i had multiple homes sold my homes. i cashed in all my retirement that i'd. earned for 20 nearly 20 years. and i lost all that i leveraged myself. millions of dollars of personal debt so. that if i. failed there was no way out even going. back to that old career that i did well. i'd be living in an apartment the rest.

of my life paying it off. people questioned people questioned me. at the time because i had a comfortable. easy marriage. and i chose to ask for a divorce. and i ended up living in an apartment. for a couple years with. no income selling off every last thing. that i had except for my two vehicles. that i built. and with my with my kids. and i've started my businesses. to help people live a better quality of.

life. to get them out of pain to help them. live better. through strength to realize that. stress demand those things that they. don't have to be the thing. that if you look back made you had the. bad back. made you have the bad ds but they do the. opposite they get you out of pain and. then i started work on my book to. to to hit on those other things the. mental the emotional. maybe even spiritual i don't touch on. that one too much in there but. it's all the same that.

things that happen around you to you. like maybe they're bad. i can't take away that but why can't you. use what you have of it. to become a stronger and better person. to become more resilient to be able to. take the things that you don't know that. are coming in the future. and so this is very intentful and that's. what the second. i'm long-winded to answer in your. question here the dragon the dragon. the dragon is an aura boris and so yeah. it is it circles my entire upper body my. shoulders my back my chest everything.

it's. right here there's this big dragon head. and its tail is right there in its mouth. that's eating itself. and that may sound a bit graphic or. whatever but it is. it's the eating of the old becoming the. new it is. the purposeful reinvention of oneself it. is the deciding. not realizing just your potential but. deciding specifically who you want to be. in this fucking world. and becoming that person can you comment.

on the the value and the power of. putting a flame to you know. your old life your old self just. destroying all of it. as you walk into the new life you know. did you have to do that. i don't recommend this by the way. because when you put yourself in no way. out. there is no way out yeah okay like. you gotta really no.

but i i can be an overconfident. individual at times and uh. i live i live through extremes i think. it's a. great way of actually finding your real. values and how you want to live honestly. to chase the having absolutely perfect. squat technique but chase putting. every freaking thing that you've got in. it which most people would say those are. those are opposite those are. diametrically opposed. i wanted a better home life.

i wanted to do more in the world through. my work. and the burning the bridges mentality is. not necessarily. you know the the best there was some. temperament. in that though because i i was not i was. slow to make the shift for a long time. because i'd been thinking about doing it. but i was thinking about doing it in a. healthcare perspective i'm gonna go back. to school to be a surgeon or a physical. therapist or cairo because that's where. like all my research and stuff was in. this this human movement. and rehab and recovery this is the.

mentors that i've been developing were. the best in the world in these things. in these disciplines those were my. friends and. and uh but i wasn't able to compromise. my family's certain quality of life i. wanted to to keep this it was. it was slow and hard for me to make that. transition but i didn't do it until. i had a platform built enough that those. first few years. i did have an income i was able to make. enough from the business until it grew. so fast. that i needed so much more needed to.

come in living in the apartment piece. and doing all that that was actually a. couple years. into uh into that process maybe like two. years. uh i'm with you on that so i'm actually. going through that very process now. i put everything i quit everything gave. away everything and starting. new and uh unfortunately or fortunately. this podcast. somehow became quite um popular. so it's getting in in the way of my. burning everything to the ground.

but in that it's a source of joy but the. main thing i'm after. is the similar project as you as. building a business. sense of joy so this this is the point i. want to drive home right now. right now because when i say burn i. learned the burning the bridges works. because. that's how i had to succeed when i was. earlier. the bridges weren't burnt they didn't. exist there was no couch to go home to. there was no there was no fallback plan. and it forced me and gave me the.

confidence to know that i can pull it. off. but i don't encourage people because. there's so much out there of this hustle. porn and other stuff going. just grind just go after it get in and. start your like. you'll get there and it's all about the. output to make money to be somebody to. do this. and i'll tell you what that is some. short-term motivation right there i feel. like dropping a few swear words but. um you're always welcome. we've already done a few so we'll uh all.

right balance it out. that is short term that is not going to. keep you going. this neat if you're going to go that. approach it needs to be because. this is your north star there's going to. be. so much hard work there's going to be. years of just. pushing through where your quest not. only is everybody around you questioning. you and your family is questioning you. you're questioning yourself going man i. don't know if i can pull this off. you're going to be stressed you're going. to be pulled to the max if somebody. comes up to me and says should i start a.

business i'm going to say no. and they'll be like oh you're supposed. to motivate me if you need me to. motivate you this is the wrong damn. approach for you. this is gonna be hard this is gonna be. harder than you expect even with me. telling you this. and so it better damn well. be worth it this better be your north. fucking star this. better live and be a way for you. to be able to articulate or realize. those values that you want to live.

this isn't something to make money this. is a way for you to live the life. and be able to share the values that you. have with the world. and that's what it is and if you don't. have that which is going to give you joy. then we can walk away yeah. this is not some way to make some money. and be known. i mean this this includes both like. simple day-to-day joy. and also deep meaning exactly the whole. thing.

and that allows you to overcome all the. all the pain along the way. but i gotta say i mean it's a difficult. thing because you run a business. i'm this podcast and a lot of things i. do research-wise. is full of joy but it's simple running a. business. is hard so. it's something that i'm very hesitant. about. in that so to almost push back a little. bit. i think if i do get the guts.

to start the business it will not be. because. i'm not choosing a more joyful life. because i'm already truly happy. the reason i'll choose is because i just. can't help it. there's this i've always had this dream. and i know it's gonna lead to suffering. and i know it's gonna. be a life that has less happiness in it. as sad as this to say. but it won't be it won't be less. happiness.

because we talk about this cup and where. you choose to pour it. and what you choose to do with it and. when you look back on things. the things that are going to give you. the most joy the most proud the things. that are going to stand out in your life. that you. really remember are going to be those. days. and your those years you struggle you're. going to look back on. 10 years later and go fuck. those were the glory days those were the. glory days. yeah and it won't feel like it at the.

time yeah. so that's what life's made of and so. this is your this is your opportunity. you feel that so right now you got this. when you think about it. you got this little thing twisting up in. your gut right it's like. it's a mixture of anxiety and fear as. well as. excitement and that is that's your. signal that this is your opportunity for. that personal growth to challenge. yourself. this is your going for a run or working. out in the heat it's. it's those things it is your opportunity.

to go. that maybe it even fails maybe it even. fails. but by turning into that you're gonna. learn so much and it's going to make you. so much better and it's the path that. you should take when you have. this stuff rolling around in there and i. don't. it could just be a hard conversation. with your partner. or your boss it could be taking on. a project that you know you know that. your boss is thrown out to the team and.

you're like i'm gonna hide in the back i. don't want that one. and i was like maybe maybe you do maybe. it's going back to school yeah maybe. it's making that career move that you. always wanted but you're just. you're just afraid of all these things. are your opportunity for you to turn. into that. it is your workout it is your practice. because if you don't. you'll get soft and who knows what's. coming and you're not going to be ready. for it. and it's going to run right over the top.

of you because you're going to be. weak you're going to be soft there's. some aspect in which choosing that hard. path. is actually the the way to arrive at the. richest kind of happiness. like the the greatest fulfillment. that's the funny thing about just the. human just make sure you're filling the. cup as you're going through it. all out so yeah that's the part to. figure out right sure. well life is short anyway um. eventually eventually the cup will be.

empty. uh this will maybe time the refilling of. the cup correctly. so you maximize the little time you got. let me talk to you about strength a. little bit first. high level what are the differences in. the different disciplines of strength so. powerlifting we talked about. maybe just to clarify for people power. lifting olympic lifting. just regular gym fitness bodybuilding. doing curls in front of the mirror for. hours like i do what's what's the.

difference between all these oh and also. strong man. every one of those as far as the. athletic uh disciplines. are different qualities so we want to. think about things as. terms of quality so there's strength. there's. power there's endurance there's. the ability to um be coordinated and. athletic there's. all these things and they're different. they're different qualities so. your training as it relates to that is.

how you cycle in the development. of those qualities what we want to think. about is. there's a lot of different frames of. thought some very uh. classical maybe not classical russian. approach because there's a lot of. different approach from the eastern. bloc but one of the ones is developing. all the qualities at once you know. focusing on. building those more of a periodization. effect would be. focusing on one quality at a time. or one quality wall maintaining other.

qualities. and then shifting that around so it's. just going to be a little different. based on. what the output is and what the desired. so like. powerlifting is actually power is the. wrong word there's actually no power in. it it's. just brute it's it's strength um. application of force uh so olympic. lifting would actually be a better. for powerlifting because that is more. explosive uh development there's. strongman is again now we're getting a. little bit more athletic it's equipment.

based on the implements and stuff that. are used how fast you can move your feet. and run mixed with more endurance but. still very. strength focused and there's some things. with strong man that is straight like. each one of these is very. also focused on different. genetic dispositions so actually if you. look at the history of sports you'll. find that they're. a lot of times based on different. populations that sounds like it's very. on pc but like. highland games they've got deep deeper. hip sockets that are shallow so you're.

going to see a lot of short hip hinge. movements like the. the caber toss and things like that muay. thai wrestling. they've got a completely different hip. joint and so strongman itself is. going to be for very large framed. individuals if you're not well over six. foot. and a large person you're probably not. going to perform well very few people. sub six foot have ever done well at. strongman just because it's it's. leverage based right um olympic lifting. we see consistently in in europe. uh the the history tells us a high.

level of hip uh and back issues. because of the depth that that hip. socket has to go in to be able to. complete that lift. and so you're going to see issues with. populations that don't have the ability. to do that so. so we've talked a little bit about. training as well as. disposition yeah so and also crossfit. instance of that that's more like strong. man but for. a wider variety of bodies i suppose yep. and definitely more metabolic. conditioning focus than the.

than the strength aspect of it um and. and conditioning is an interesting thing. too so that quality. in my opinion can be developed a lot. faster. but kind of peaks much faster as well so. you where strength we can continue to. add and add an add over. time so it's. for me like for conditioning with any. strength athlete i don't like to spend. as much time. on that so i'll cycle the conditioning. work for our strength athletes.

and then taper that off leading into. meat so the more. metabolic work that means the more. capacity in strength training that you. can accomplish. which is the goal and recover from. but then as we lead to a competition we. want to spend more time on recovering. from that so we have to pull things out. so we'd pull out less so like. a typical approach would be like taking. a six-week cycle for conditioning. and ramping ramping up over three weeks. periods time then dropping back down. again. and ramping up and being slightly offset.

by like a week or two from your strength. peaks. so that you've actually tapered the week. prior in your conditioning work to your. strength work. right and but that way we're not hitting. conditioning hard all the time which is. a common. common uh misstep that people make is. going well i need conditioning. so they just hammer that at a base level. over the top. instead of cycling that if we talk about. power lifting. in terms of regimen. in terms of exercise yeah in terms of.

the process. the wood consistent with what is there. something to be said about. general qualities of the consistency of. the regimen required to get strong. yes so let's talk about some training. principles as a whole and this will. i think this will break the down what. you're what you're one. the more work that we can fit into a. given time. the more progress we're going to make. but that doesn't mean doing the max. amount of work.

possible at any given time. so we know that we're always to to. accomplish more we're always going to. have more. and there's a certain ceiling that. you're going to hit that you're not. going to be able to add more so. you want to start and get the most. amount of results that you can with the. least. amount of work because you're going to. have to do it. again like this stair step over and over. year decades so on so when people is a. big miss people got they look at. uh a chico program from russia or so on.

and they go. i'm gonna follow this and it's like that. was specifically written for somebody. with 20 years of experience. that's already built the capacities to. be at that level so it's all about. building that work capacity. so how much work can you give in a given. time so now we want to look at some. research. as it relates to injuries because. injuries are going to be a big driver. over time. of what holds you back so when we talk. consistency training hard for three.

years. five years it's gonna be really good but. what we find is a lot of people train. really hard for nine months. have to slow back for a month get back. into it and miss another week because. and so on they're always like this. little nagging that little nagging. and so it's pretty clear in the research. we wanna we're looking at when we're. stair stepping this stuff we're looking. at acute and chronic loading so. some fancy words for average and like. what's happening right now. so this given week would be our acute.

chronic would be what is our average. loading let's say over the last six. months. okay so the more that we can move the. chronic loading up the more work we're. getting done on. as a whole over time we're going to get. stronger the way that we build the. capacity to do that. is having spikes in acute loading okay. now as we do this the. the acute loading if it spikes more than. 10. maybe 15 percent from what the chronic.

loading. has been that accounts for. eighty percent of injuries out there. so it's not actually the movement. quality or this misstep or the other. it usually happens about four five six. weeks later it's like oh this nagging. and then it gets worse and then now you. gotta. you gotta do some rehab your training. sessions aren't as good and so on. so now we're starting to look at this. okay it's like i wanna do the. i wanna do the least amount of work. where i can still progress.

i want to be able to have spikes in my. weekly demand. that don't go above 10 to 15 percent of. what i've been averaging for the last. month but every time i do a spike my. average goes up right. boom boom boom and then that becomes. very particular also when you take. when you do take plantain time off so a. lot of people. uh training session maybe they're doing. a five-week block with a. a deload week or you go on vacation for. a week. or any of those things that were a.

downward what does that do to your. average in chronic loading. it brings it down and then what does the. person want to do when they come back. make up for it now they have a huge. spike above. five weeks later we're dealing with ah. this elbow this wrist whatever's kind of. bothering me and now you're not. performing as much so these are some. really fundamental pieces of. of of training and then now we can start. overlaying the qualities that we're. trying to develop that we were talked. about earlier so now it's. let's talk about my deadlift my thousand.

pound deadlift we'll talk about the. training cycles for both the thousand. uh deadlift and squat so backing up. a year out from the deadlift knowing i. was training at the time. heavy deadlifts once a week and usually. it was. two of those sessions a month were. really heavy and the others weren't it's. like. okay how can we get this up to where i'm. deadlifting twice a week. because that's where i want to be uh to. be able to accomplish this i need to be. loading about. that much with frequency with a certain.

volume to be able to accomplish this. goal. we're not going to go through all the. math and stuff like that and how that's. arrived but there is. there is math behind this and so instead. of just. like oh let's start dead lifting twice a. week no. so we start and we take the one session. that we've got. and we split it part of it take part of. it away and put it in the second half of. the week so the total volume is still. the same. and then we start adding some volume but. i'm doing it at a. off of block so that the actual load is.

the cumulative load is less because i. have less range of motion. okay and then we start building that. closer to the ground closer to the. ground and so on. and now we start getting to where i'm. almost doing two sessions full sessions. a week. and then we start adding a little bit of. load. and so at my level this isn't talking. about adding another set. or another day a week we're talking like. in my squat. it might be one rep instead of doing. three sets of three at one week i do two.

doubles. or two triples then two doubles to give. me one. more rep that's it and so we're doing. that from one week. to the next and that's a cycle training. cycle it might be five six weeks and. then so on. the next one and slowly bringing that. average load. up so the last phases of the squat for. example. we took the average loading every week. so my of my heavy sets. so once we developed all this stuff over. the last year to get to this point. now it is taking and going okay my.

average load this week. is eight reps at 955 pounds and then the. next week. let's get it to nine nine fifty seven. nine sixty three and this was pretty. aggressive working up to where my. average loading the final. that fit the final was 985 pounds. average load for eight to nine reps. and that's what i said this is the. intense part that was why it was the day. of was much easier. that week over week is pretty brutal. may not sound oh you're just squatting.

and now let's back up let's look at the. quality. development so a year out from the squat. obviously i've been working on. developing axial load capacity my. capacity to withstand load from top to. bottom so i like thinking about things. in movement vectors. so this vector is an axial loaded vector. is the hardest to recover from. uh so what's actual so like is deadlift. are they both they're both yep so a. horizontal. a front to back would be like a row or a.

press. why is the axial uh hard to recover from. because this entire body the entire. entire body just anything that is. that that uh taxes the the the spinal. mechanics. i i don't i could tell you my beliefs. it's studied it is okay um. we can just keep the discussion on that. but short like that so. um so we start looking at those. different vectors that we're training in. so this is why. this is important to understand so i'm. not just getting into nuance here. so hey squatting is going to make me.

make me jump further because it's legs. well squatting is an axial load vector. and. jumping is a vector this way so actually. hip thrust. would help with urine your and this is. proven in science. with your forward jumping ability uh. they're both working similar muscles the. glute extension. but they're working it in those. different platforms so it's really. important to understand because. people don't understand i'm building my. work capacity by doing. sled pushes you're not developing your.

work capacity for squatting. most movements even ones as. holistic as a as a squat require. specialization. yeah you can't get strong at the squat. by doing you're going to have some. carryover. right obviously but because taking an. untrained person that hasn't done it. it's not still not going to do as good. as somebody that's done non-specific. work but done work. so but yes for the most part to get. truly strong. you need to specialize so but not all.

the time. so now we talk about quality so and if. we specialize in the same thing too long. we stagnate because the body adapts to a. certain point and just can't make. progress. so we wanted to save the actual. squatting in the pattern with the bar. that i was doing. for the very end so starting a year out. i started doing work front squatting. like a squat. axial loaded pattern and worked on. maximizing that up. then i started shifting to doing.

transformer bar squat it's this bar i. developed that actually changed and. manipulates spinal mechanics so i. started loading in these more forward. positions. and being able again so now i'm getting. closer than a front squat but not quite. squatting and then. i would start adjusting that bar every. training cycle to closer to a squat. toaster to a squat till it finally was. right so what's the difference between a. front squat. and a regular like a back squat like in. terms of the. the stress on the body the mechanics was. there something interesting to be said.

about. like how fundamentally different are. they so what's interesting. people think about the weight in. imposition to them like oh the bar's in. front of me the bar's behind me. which is not the case the bar. is above your midfoot the load is above. your midfoot. so we're actually manipulating the spine. behind the bar. so we're causing spinal uprighting. behind the bar getting in a more erect. position. which is going to change the. relationship of the hip angle. it's going to change our ability to.

maintain the spine it's going to change. the. uh how much the the core comes in how. hard it is to. maintain that sternum to diaphragm. relationship that we talked about. all this stuff starts changing so the. bar stays in the same place the bar's. still behind you but the load. moves around so but we're actually. manipulating the spine around the load. yeah it's incredible we can tailor it to. an athlete. which is great when you've got a seven. foot plus tall baseball player or. basketball player. that's why we work with all these teams.

anyway so it's like you're taking. something and getting closer and closer. to it. at the same time we're looking at the. quality so like i needed to be able to. really hold this torso position with the. weight moving up here. now unlike the deadlift the ability to. manage this tl position. becomes much more challenging so that. was also why i was choosing the. transformer bar. because it actually challenges that more. in those big forward positions. i was also working on my back strength. tremendously. to be able to hold a maintained position. so there was a lot of like. i chose a bent over rows so bent over.

row is a mixed vector so it's a forward. to back. so it wouldn't have as much carrier but. it's also um. got some axial loading components in it. as well. so we're working on that and then as it. as we get closer and closer to. competition i'm developing those. strengths but now i need to start. tapering those out so all of my recovery. needs can now go into the more specific. that i'm actually ramping the load up so. as i'm ramping the load on the weight. i'm able to ramp it a lot faster. because i'm tapering out the other stuff.

so i can still keep my total load. high but now get it very very specific. wow so everything i've done has always. been kind of an annual training cycle. and then again this was like a this was. a five-year training cycle but we just. kind of walked through the last year of. each and you can see how these concepts. play out in reality so in the cycling. so this is both for you but also for. more recreational. strength athletes let's say. there's variety injected into the system.

you need variety yeah. yeah because you will basically stagnate. at some level right so you should. should always be kind of shifting a. little bit so um. three to four month blocks in general. for an average you know just a. gen pop fitness is pretty good um. where you're going to spend more time. maybe in a higher rep range or lower rep. range a little bit more. uh work on uh endurance capacity or. maybe some more time hey i'm playing. around with. boxing or jiu jitsu or something like. that bring that a little bit more to the.

front forefront for a while and bring. the other out but like. mixing mixing those variables up but. trying to keep the total load the same. and always kind of like. no do we add a little more again it. doesn't have to be major and it. shouldn't be major you don't want these. big jumps you don't go. oh my god let's move uh let's jump into. squatting every day. um you've got to build the capacity to. do that. it's simple what role would you say. strength has in sports that combine.

skill and strength. so for me personally maybe i'll just ask. it selfishly which is uh. grappling wrestling mma yeah. how about i start with baseball please. uh no i wouldn't okay i know the sport. okay. like baseball and golf for the two of my. favorite sports. uh no i don't you don't have to be in. shape at all to excel at those sports. well. here's the thing there so you're gonna. get this argument. well i've got a perfect example because.

this is this is why i sell so many. transformer bars into the. the major league baseball so they get. these people. uh that come in these athletes that have. been. baseball their whole life it is part of. the culture. and so they're great athletes they've. got all this skill. the only thing they have to do is. develop a little bit more resilience. so that they don't have the injury they. can push their training a little bit. more. that we can add a little bit more force. output and.

be able to recover from it so the only. thing they've got to do. is add some training but there's no. training culture there so they don't. have any experience which is why. they love the transformer bar because. they don't have to worry about teaching. the technique we can actually set the. bar on a setting that makes their squats. perfect. by queuing all the stuff with actually. not having to coach it because when. you're coaching a room full of athletes. it's really hard to teach the nuance of. all this and not sure. that all that but that's all that they. have to do with these players with. a huge level of skill so once you reach. a certain level of skill. adding strength is the the only real.

forward path. so so that's the the basic simple answer. to that. um so one of the benefits there being. like injury prevention actually. injury resilience because especially uh. fighting sports you're going to be. challenged and thrown and other things. happen to you. and the more resilient you can make your. structures the better you're gonna be. even a cyclist. mountain biking why would they need it. why would they need to do upper body. training. take a crash your shoulder's gone you're.

done. your career is over unless you've done a. little training. right so so there's value in all this. stuff but uh the resilience is like. that's that's huge and then we can. overlay strength. the people where we miss is this focus. on strength when we haven't developed. quality motor patterns first so this is. a huge thing with uh. children because people want to know. what's the appropriate training age. i'd had my daughter training before my. son because she developed.

movement patterns at a better quality. earlier there's no age because it's. going to be very. dependent on the individual there's no. point in having adaptation if we don't. have the right. thing to adapt to yet and that applies. to general movement but also. the sport you see you're saying the. skills should be developed first and the. strength applied on top of that yep. maybe you can educate me but. i actually quit lifting and powerlifting. for a long time after i started um. judo jiu jitsu grappling all this sort.

of combat sports. because i found that it was preventing. me from. relaxing my body enough to uh. load in the skill so this isn't. a problem with the uh training this is a. problem with you. yeah so this is actually really really. important. the first product i ever released was. a loadable mace a swinging mace.

and because every power lifter and body. well not every but most. serious power lifters and bodybuilders. like shoulders. mobility is pretty limited. and most of them really really struggle. with this. the problem is they've been taught to. have tension all the time. and that's not good so when we talk. about like the joint positions that we. were talking about earlier and having. those and the muscles in the right. length and tension relationship.

athleticism is the speed to relaxation. because the counter is speed to to speed. to contraction. float like a butterfly sting like a bee. right. and so what a mace can do is use that. because this is a. ties back into a developmental. kinesiology because. a lot of like reset patterns are getting. back into these basic movements but it's. as much about relaxation as it is. contraction. okay so a mace we have this weight on a.

big long lever. so i if i grab a kettlebell and be like. let's say movement is a kettlebell halo. it is the same movement but here in the. halo i'm on. the whole time with the mace at the. proper length. with the right distribution you cannot. do the movement. you could not move force your way. through it the only way that you can. accomplish that. is by relaxing and then. now we now we can contract all the. muscles related around. that shoulder girdle all at once we're.

working. on off on off on off with moving. and contracting and now so what happens. a lot of times as we. you know this stiffness and tightness. happens if we're in poor positions we. start using. stabilizer muscles to do the movement. and then that's where this stiffness. come from so it means that. in some of whatever training that you're. doing there's a deficit. in the movement quality okay or. there's a deficit in the training. program and you're not recovering from.

and 80. of the time that's the right answer. right but yeah that's where the. where the gap is and learning how to. relax. and the way a lot of the exercises are. taught. and have been taught for a long time. which is why there's a big gap and this. is why. both clinical rehab and all these other. components are mixed in my philosophy. and what i'm trying to do with kabuki. strength. because i'm looking at holistic movement. i'm not looking at powerlifting. bass movements are what i want to load. and be able to assess on.

but this affects all sports. all activities and strength doesn't have. to be that. i mean i i'm i'm freaking a thousand. pound squatter and dead lifter. if you watch any of my videos where i do. like complete quad fallbacks. i don't stretch at all i can usually get. close to a full split like if i want to. um what no i did not see those videos. okay. that's uh it's hard to believe wow okay. well actually i do i just did one. recently a quad fallback with my with my. mace loaded way out to the end. tortioning on both ends of the other and.

like i do a lot of i do a lot of weird. stuff. um that's awesome okay squatting doesn't. make your hips tight squatting like shit. makes. your hips tight and so. but there is no perfect world we're. always our training program isn't quite. perfect our movement isn't necessarily. perfect like so you're going to have the. needs for this stuff. but if you're always have to do some. soft tissue work to loosen up the same. one. for that exercise to be able to get a. joint in position.

there is a problem and i'm not saying. don't do it do it because i don't want. you to have a joint. like if i can't get my shoulders in a. position i can't do overhead presses. because i'm going to compromise my spine. position then i'm going to end up with. some other problems right. so go ahead and clean that up so you can. get in position. but go figure out why it is and fix it. and then maybe next you know three four. months from now they're gonna get a. little something else going on. fix it but understand the deeper root. reason of why. so i'm i believe i am the only company.

manufacturing and selling you know. fascial soft tissue tools and i'll tell. you. i don't want you to use them. because it's not helping you get to the. why why it was caused in the first place. yeah. the goal the goal the perfect state is. not having to use them. reality is you're going to have to use. them from time to time because the. world's not perfect. yeah so your discovery is 100 on point. well there's another side to combat. sports. when you're beginning a particular.

combat sport. strength can be a negative because. human psychology because you can get. away with a lot when you're strong. uh-huh yes you can. so if your mind is strong enough to. where you can just. turn off that advantage and be a. beginner. truly in a particular art that's. probably the best way to do it but you. can get away and then you don't learn. yeah yeah it's hard uh. it's hard not to use the little.

advantages you have because like jiu. jitsu. is a big hit on on the ego for. you know especially guys you know when. like a smaller. person just destroys you dominates you. when you can i don't know deadlift. whatever number of pounds. and uh it's hard not to use that. strength to then resist. the slow the ultimate destruction by. like 120 pound. but that and that's why i recommend.

developing the skill quality first. but it doesn't it doesn't mean that you. can't i can't you can still do it so. that don't take it as like. oh i can't go that direction that's fine. but understand those things and then. also understand the jiu jitsu is. additional load on the body. yeah so you have to you can't just add. it on top yeah. you've got to taper back the other. you're going to have to make a i'm sorry. you may not want to hear. it but you're not going to be able to do. as much. and add that here yeah it's a compromise.

because your total volume still has to. be there and there's not unfortunately. not really a way to measure. what the jiu-jitsu volume is with this. so you've got to. take a look at that and that's where. like measuring like heart rate. variability or other stuff. can be useful so you can see what is. happening from me from a sympathetic. versus parasympathetic nerve nervous. system standpoint yeah making sure your. body recovers sufficiently. and trying to put numbers to it you. mentioned kabuki strength. you run the kabuki strength lab.

previously called the elite performance. center in oregon. you called it the perfect gym what makes. uh for. the perfect strength training gym where. i called it the program in the video. somewhere i watched oh man. i mean that's where my testing grounds. for developing all this stuff was. through the years. and and so this is like i said i started. developing relationships with. the best developmental kinesiologist in. the in the us. the best arguably the best or most.

well-known physical therapist in the. world the best. spine biomechanist in the world i. started doing continuing education with. these clinical courses and learning this. stuff and going. but how does it work in my world right. and then i started lecturing with them. and all this other stuff but. the lab was like where do we test this. stuff right. and so let me get to a point there's. three things there's always three things. so um to be a success. to achieve success i believe there's. three things that really really come.

into place. and it's the right methodology. the right tools and the right. environment. and so it was all about building that. and so the methodologies came from a lot. of that. different that gray area interaction of. clinical with sports science right. and then the tools i had to start. creating and designing and then. the environment is having this you know. focused environment of people that want.

to do better and push each other and. having. community and culture right i end up. building. these connections this network. everything that i'm doing with my. businesses. is trying to create that into a scalable. fashion and so i'm building the. groundwork because. to have a system that like yeah i had. clinicals on site that knew. exactly what we were doing and when it's. me and a few people in a small team and. all this stuff. we're all just like easy to manage and. you can see these there's other models. around this so. i've been other areas since maybe.

whenever it was i filmed that video. that said that that they have that same. same model and it's taken. probably about a decade usually to. develop that you know and. having the right people in this. community they can create this. this network and the tool and all this. stuff right except they still don't have. the best tools because kabuki strength. didn't exist. um but uh but. and so out of that was is essentially. started building. this business and people like when did. you know how all this stuff was.

connected and i'm like. i don't know i didn't i just started. creating on the outset. the things that worked until finally i'm. like oh i'm recreating. a scalable version of this stuff here's. the methodologies and a coaching. platform that we can manage clients. around the globe and see what's working. and not based on the scientific. principles of training right. how do we create that into a database. that now we can train. new coaches and they can use those same. metrics and tools to create programs. that are tailored to fit. a person's individual needs right now.

how do we integrate that with. um assessment and clinical care. assessment and. and all these other pieces so there's a. lot of work in that. and so that's where kabuki strength is. the genesis but we have. we call our gym the kabuki strength lab. literally people find about our gym in. the neighborhood like how long have you. been here why. why do i not know about this we don't. advertise our gym at all. i feel like that makes no sense well. it's because the only reason is to have.

a testing environment. for the tools and methodology and having. enough people to have. the culture and fit and to be able to be. part of the experiment. what about the environment of the the. feel of it the actual gym. there's a i don't know a grunginess to. it. i recently became a member of planet. fitness. for for reasons that have to do more. with the heat in austin that sometimes i. need to put in time on the treadmill. uh i don't like i don't have any.

judgment honestly i don't the best. gyms i've been in are kind of dirty. you walk in and you know that work is to. be done yes there's not another reason. to do there. it is the the environment is tight. there's a big piece of that. um i know it's studied sociologically i. believe i just i just pictured that word. too. but the intensity when you start growing. a space. the intensity drops and so. i i had that experience when we grew we.

went from a 4 000 foot to a 9 000 square. foot gym at one time. and everybody's like it doesn't feel the. same like. people are complaining for years we've. shrunk it back down when we're down to 3. 500 square feet and it creates. that intensity it creates the closest. the connection with the people around. you. and then like i said the the grunginess. like you go in you know the intention. when you walk in that environment. creates that tension but when i speak. environment it's not just the. it's not the physical it's the people. but you know when the. gym is a little bit beat up yes it also.

tells a story. like there's a history to it you could. tell that not only. is there work to be done that work has. been done here. yes like battles have been fought. there's something to that where. you're just in a long line of people. you know that uh fought and won. and we could get into a whole other. space so this would be a whole other. topic but. that existing energy of a space i mean. uh we mentioned offline joe rogan he.

talks about the same with comedy clubs. there's certain there's certain clubs. that just have a history. there's an energy there you can get all. woo. but you know there is it's there it's a. real thing i think. you walk in and you can feel it and you. feel you feel it. yeah that makes me feel that somehow. all of us humans are connected in ways. that's hard to describe. even the ones who are no longer here. just the greatness that once was is. still.

in the walls in the space present there. yeah and we somehow can plug into that. energy yeah. it's we can go down and. go down a path there there's something. really powerful there you've also. mentioned. a bunch of cool equipment that you've. developed as part of. kabuki strength probably a little bit of. that has to do with your. engineering education but also just. generally with the spirit. of the uh innovator that you are what. are some cool.

maybe uh revolutionary pieces of. equipment that you're particularly proud. of or just uh. you've been obsessed with recently yeah. developing love to talk about that so. we've got some wild crazy stuff that. just came out and is coming out too. so everything that we create and release. a kabuki strength. the industry hasn't seen before. there's stuff that's basic foundational. that's been around forever because it. works.

but there's always more it could be. better. and why are we not looking at these. things these foundational things so. when people are coming up with novel. things they end up being way different. outside the perspective and i'm coming. up with. things that are way different that are. plays. on what we already know works so we. talked about the transform bar the only. bar in the world we can manipulate. spinal mechanics. we can so everything everything for me. from a design concept that we develop. is all about creating products that can.

rapidly accommodate. to the variability of an individual's. leverages mobility. and training needs okay and that's going. to also create and. distill down the size and scope of space. that we need which is. going to be continue to be an ongoing. thing check out my instagram after this. and you'll see i put an entire gym on. the bed of my truck. and went on vacation uh last week we. drove to the desert oh no. and by entire gym i mean uh squat rack. full complement of our specialty bars a.

horizontal and vertical pulley system. handheld weights shoulder like a. complete. an entire gym in product that took up. the space the size of this bed. right here that's incredible because of. the design scope of what we have. so the cool things that there's two. other bars that. fit our biomechanically sound barbell. lines we talked about the transformer. bar. the other two are built on this thing i. call playground physics. so we have these bars with handles.

that are off um off parallel. with the axis so they've been around the. market for a long time one is a. hex bar or a trap bar another one is a. it's a pressing bar with uh the handles. turned as well. and both of them suck they're horrible. any time any lifter knows if you pick it. up. it's going to break your wrist and crush. into your face and it just. it just doesn't feel good pressing but. it alleviates the strain on the wrist so.

people use it for that reason. and the the the trap bar same thing it's. always diving forward in your hand so. it's kind of limited it's also limited. in use. because you can't you could do a lot. more with it so these bars are really. cool playground physics. so as soon as the center of rotation. is on the same axis as the. center of mass and the handle. is off center you have you have a. teeter-totter.

so and a teeter-totter has a balance. point but it's infinitely perfect so. technically you can never find it it's. always going to be sitting on one side. or the other in a playground. and that's what these bars are designed. so you got in instability right here you. can't find the center the bar is always. trying to tip in your hands on the trap. bar. so you can't do carries with it because. you're doing forward momentum and it. wants to. it wants to dip on you right um the. swiss bar wants to crush your face well. what do we do we just make a swing put. center of mass below center of rotation. and what does it do oh it always finds.

center. so so the handles on the our pressing. bar. it's arced so the handles are above. center of rotation. and then and then every angle instead of. just being a certain fixed angles. each angle is based on the width the. average width of an individual so the. internal and external rotational bias is. based. of the shoulder is based on the width. leaving just a little bit left because. we talked about the lat being a. stabilizer you still need to have a. little bit of q of external rotation to. engage. that as a stabilizer boom now all of a.

sudden you have a bar and i kid you not. this is a great story. major league baseball when i presented. it every head strength coach for a major. league baseball team maybe not every but. damn near most of them have bad. shoulders they can't press they've got. shoulder surgeries so on and so we're. showing they love all our stuff and i'm. like hey i've got this cool prototype i. want to show you it's a pressing bar and. they're like oh you know. major league baseball's a little. hesitant on pressing because the dangers. for the shoulder. and i i can't i haven't been able to. take a bar to my chest i mean i'd really.

love to it's been five years since i've. i've been able to uh to xx train and i'm. like. just try it like i can't even get a bar. to my chest without pain like just try. it. that feels good now the arc makes it. actually three inches deeper. so people are automatically scared i. can't do that because that's an extra. range of motion right. like oh put a plate on there they're. doing it by the time the staff's like. they're all standing around. you see like what's going on put two. plates on you see the. just like it gets up how do you feel.

like. i feel fine no pain at all yeah i did. this. with five teams with five of the it. happening. repeatedly five times and that. they and every one of them worked up the. two plates and did the reps varied. with zero pain to a three inch range of. greater range of mass because what did. we do. we stacked all the joints and we. provided stability at the end we. balanced the internal and external. rotation. i mean just basic playground physics and. it changed the game. now we get a greater range of motion.

with a greater training effect with the. negative stresses removed. our trap bar opened up one side which. there was already something like that. out there. created um it pops up so you can pick up. take the weights on and off it's got a. built-in jack. and then created the high handle. position which already did everybody. uses the high handle on a trap bar they. just don't know why they like it. the handle that's on center we offset. just a little bit not enough to make a. difference on the range of motion lift. or even notice visibly but it still has. the same effect so both handles now have. that.

we added the option of different handle. sizes based on whatever your needs are. even the one that rolls to develop a. grip and then different widths that you. could choose from based on whether. you're training a teen athlete. or a seven foot six nba player or a nfl. lineman. um so that we can accommodate for all. these uh differences. and so and then now it becomes the most. functional all-around bar. around because now you can do carries. with it you can do split squats with it. you could do curls with it because it. goes around the body you can do overhead. presses because you don't have a thing. that gets in your way and you can flip.

it up into position. you can do bent over rows and not run. into your shins you can do seal rows off. of a bench you can do ab roll outs. you could should i go on yeah so you. could use it as like the main. the best multi-purpose bar around you. got a home gym one bar. like how do you develop totally new. equipment like this i uh. scratch it on paper maybe. maybe weld some cut up and weld up a. prototype but usually i just. hand the scratched up paper to my uh. engineering manager. and that's what he says his job is to. distill my chicken scratch into.

something real. and then that team picks it up uh but in. the old days starting out i just walk. out. i just walk out and do it i you talk. about engineering i'm actually more i. work more of an artist fashion it's in. my head and i just go create. with no plans and so they have to pick. that up and actually do the engineering. and testing and all that. and then we got two other products came. out this year freaking wild are you. familiar with uh training with a. flywheel. no no it's a flywheel maybe a flywheel. is a spinning object.

that uh creates an inertial mass yeah. and then it reverses direction. so whatever you put into it and there's. one's out there um. but ours is the first patent pending. that's all. everything all in one unit so it's a. floor based as well as a horizontal so. you can basically do any pulley movement. in the world. and now everything that you put into it. on a concentric force it whips right. back is. is centric load gosh sure so there's an. accelerating whipping motion. it just yeah basically yeah i mean okay. i have to.

have trouble imagining exactly many of. the things you're describing. i i suppose have to be experienced right. yes. so it's imaginable and there's a lot of. research they've been around they're. adopted more heavily in europe quite. heavily in europe but not as much in the. us. because they sell them as a be-all. end-all tool which they're not they're. crazy for what they do. but it's not the it's another tool and. so we have. um a very high quality unit now that is. half the cost of everybody else's. because. the innovation of a movable mount point.

that you for them you have to have. two pieces of equipment we have one so. um and then a few other things better. platform to be able to do things and. that we can do what we call off platform. work which allows us to do. movements like uh punches and stand-ups. things like that. and then i've got a handheld weight. coming out next month that we can. actually play with. so varying the load with it never. leaving your hand by changing the. leverage point.

we're talking about here anything that. would be a a dumbbell or a kettlebell. movement. so it functions it does the function of. a kettlebell a dumbbell and what we call. a center mass bell. as well as provides variable loading. within a range so. how can you change like how can you. change the load. because the load well we don't actually. change the load we change the torque. on the on the joint that we're working. which is the same that's actually what. is creating the force right so if i'm. doing a front raise. it's where this this downward force is.

times the distance away right. which also then makes it no force when. i've got at the bottom of the front ways. which is why it's so easy. with this it's like a kettlebell it's. offset except it has three different. handles. but it's offset just a kettlebell you. can't do it because the offset so far it. becomes a wrist movement. so ours has three different sizes in the. offset just enough. so that you can pick if i put it in the. front raised position or curl position i. could put it in outward position. and the force is almost what it is at. the at the top but then i get the top.

and it's the same exact or the curl. so i can actually change the force curve. in the movement and then. i can just release the pressure a little. bit and let it swing into position and. keep doing a drop set with never letting. it down. yeah yeah so it's got a really nice. textured grip that allows you to hold it. in different positions. and then the load offset is just enough. that it doesn't overpower the wrist. and then you got different hand sizes so. that you can maximize this relationship. and hit. whatever joint that you're applying that. sounds incredible. it's really freaking well it's awesome. because you can because the variable. load. now i could go straight from front.

raises to side raises or rear or curl. because without like because i don't. have to put it down so now my time under. tension. goes through the roof and by the way the. same effect with a flywheel trainer. because the variable res. whatever you put into it is what it. kicks back so you have. an constant time under tension because. there's no rest points either so all. this stuff is working on maximizing time. under tension. um which anyway it it's that's cool. stuff. anyway i get i get excited uh well let. me ask you about another thing you've. already mentioned but.

i find this really interesting which is. barefoot running and. your sort of uh company barefoot. athletics. yeah b-e-a-r and the tagline is. optimizing the human. to ground interface we've talked about. this a little bit. with uh the power lifting how do you. think about. the the foot ground interface. it's interesting that we know.

that we should train all these parts of. our body to be able to be stronger. be more resilient like. but we think that the foot is different. that we need to package it and modify it. and somehow that that's the science of. making. you know it healthy where i challenge. people. think about that like first thing you do. in the morning is. roll out of bed and put your. weightlifting belt on and wrap it on. tight and wear it till you go to bed at.

night. do it with your shoulders your knees. wake up and put some knee wraps on. okay and elbow wraps and see what. happens. one you'll get weaker you'll lose. movement capacity. and you'll start affecting other areas. of the body very negatively because they. will start picking up the compensation. for those joints that are not moving. properly. this is it what shoes are for. is to protect you from the environment. from cuts and abrasions. and heat and things like that but the.

foot. let me the mind blowing is like every. other. area of the body you need to use it and. you need to strengthen it and you need. to learn to control it. that's it that's all i have to say about. the subject okay. it's that simple but somehow we have. been. sold entire industries like the. orthotics industry. it's completely false meta-analysis of. the data shows that orthotics do nothing. beyond temporary relief. from pain over a six eight week period.

of time and provide no long-term benefit. and i can't tell you how many people. i've eliminated back or knee or hip pain. from getting from working on. strengthening and controlling the foot. and ankle complex. we believe we've villainized and said a. low arch. is a condition that needs fixed. like when it really is just controlling. the foot and ankle complex and how they. relate to each other and how we use that. is it like. go put on boxing gloves in the morning. and do that for the next 20 years and.

see what happens. it's not about finding the right shoe. that fits because your foot has been. deformed. and so i'm not like some wacky goo like. oh you got to be barefoot forever do. this like no i'm just saying. go spend some time using it strengthen. it. learn to control it and you'll work. better in a shoe but. the whole running shoe movement with the. raised heel that was. the person that that suggested that that. in. to nike way back when they were trying. to figure out what to do. the reason and he says it's it's the.

worst thing that he ever did. um because we were coming from an. era of people wearing heeled shoes which. by the way came from um. stirrups way back in the day that's. where the whole heel came from is to go. into stirrup but then it went into. fashion and then. the running craze started coming around. in the. they're 70s they're starting to push. this the general mass population and. they realize that they were causing. injuries and like what are we gonna do. well that's because everybody was in. this position. and had a shortened uh shortened calf.

muscle it's like well the work around. let's just put a heel on it so we don't. injure them. that's it and now because the raised. heel you got to raise the toe and then. now with that if you go stand on. something and pull your inner toe in. and in a squat position just reach down. and do it you'll see that you have no. control. over the internal and external rotation. of your of of your leg. you don't and or your foot and you. actually have to put a support in. for the arch to be able to passively. control those structures.

it's just band-aid on top of band-aid on. top of band-aid. use it strengthen it if you want to wear. some shoes because they look good or. fancy i'm like i have no problem i mean. i got a wife my wife will put on some. high heels every now and again. like but all i'm saying is use your foot. my thousand pound squat my thousand. pound deadlift we're done barefoot i'm. not trying to sell you shoes. go do it with no shoe that's what i've. been promoting. i did that for six years and i promoted. it but people ask me like.

what do i do because my gym requires. shoes. okay where do i go and uh and then i go. well. you know you could pick up these uh. other finger shoes or whatever and they. go man. my wife won't have sex with me and i go. i know. mine either like trust me i'm not making. this up. everybody in that market markets to one. segment and they're still missing some. gaps. because they they still have a little. bit too narrow of a toe box and with. your lifting you have the opportunity. to really get that splay and start. working on this stuff better.

so i just wanted to create a shoe these. ones are odd colored because it's a. partnership with kabuki. normally we've got a black or a gray low. top high top. sticks to the ground for lifting so we. can do that and very pliable it's a. moccasin. it's a modern-day moccasin but looks. okay that you can wear it around in. other areas if you. if you so choose like you know what the. number one healthcare cost in america is. what's that diabetes. uh heart disease cancer.

low back pain. now what do you attribute low back pain. to well it's attributed to a lot of. things. um but inability to control spinal. position um which. starts happening from uh some breathing. issues uh it also happens from. the foot um so there's a lot of stuff. but everything that i do actually. focus on improving this yeah so that and. it all starts with. this is one thing like this doesn't. affect breathing but um. so it does actually affect breathing to.

some elections and spinal stabilization. so. the raised heel and toe will make you. stride further. because of just how it operates but that. over stride. is a result of opening this so we opened. the pelvis and diaphragm did we talk. about that and the impact that that has. for controlling in spine yeah i think we. touched on that yeah. um but it it's all this stuff plays. together so the gate affects that and so. the shoe affects the gate and then. so it's all connected all connected let. me be very. purposeful with some conversation here.

though we've talked about periodization. this was a big gap so people go yeah. well when people started running with. those they started having injuries. back when the finger company produced. those and didn't do the education around. this very simple concept. you do not walk into the gym if you. haven't squatted and start squatting 225. from. for max rex every week day or every day. over day. yeah and that's what people did because. they did weren't told that. you need to build the capacity to do. this. you go wear these and walk around in.

your office or wherever all day long. your feet are gonna hurt they're gonna. be sore. do it for 10 of your time yeah. do that for a month then add some that. will build the capacity. to do this and then that's going to. start having the ability to strengthen. manage the foot there's a whole lot of. other stuff i've got videos on. things that you can do buy whatever you. want or just. just spend some time out of them like. that's all that i want people to do. because it is so. simple and it has such a profound impact.

yeah it does i. what i did uh i noticed when you walked. uh when i walked in i was like oh hey. you're spending some time without the. last shoes on. uh well what i did um i think it's. already now two years ago when i was. doing a lot of running i do like a 10. mile run. i would take my shoes off for the last. like half mile and i run like that. and that was for me really helpful to. ensure that i have proper form. form that minimizes pain on the way i. run i still like shoes.

i benefit a lot from shoes the. protection they provide but. it's for running um we're referring to. especially trail lining and so on and in. the city when there's glass and all. those kinds of things. but it's really important to have. minimal sort of protection on your feet. for me at least it was to figure out. the ways that my form basic movement. and like the positioning in the foot the. impact of the foot. and everything you know the the the. lower leg.

the entirety of the torso really how. it's improperly positioned. in terms for the objective of minimizing. pain and the barefoot running really. help. uh fix that for me because i figured out. that i need to take. shorter steps uh more frequent. you know all those kinds of things and. that really helps you figure that out. like let's be realist about stuff like. um. spend some time using it strengthen it. and i've got some great ways to to do.

that and learn how to do that so. yeah what is a good diet for strength. development. i've uh just to give you some context. i've been eating mostly meat. not for strength mostly for mental. performance i just enjoy it. yes you need to have a base level of. protein. building blocks for tissue right we need. to have enough fats to be able to have. hormones work and key processes in the. body. we need to have well you don't need to. have from a performance aspect. carbohydrates necessarily because the.

other ones can convert into injury. sources but. for a performance athlete carbohydrates. can be very beneficial. as well so so i look at it as. you want you need a base level fats you. need a base level of proteins and then. you adjust. the carbohydrate intake based on the. needs i'm not anti-carbohydrate by any. means. because a lot of people will they look. at me now when they see like how lean i. am and they are they jump to a. conclusion you must be keto you must be. carnivore you must be whatever and it's.

like. so losing and gaining weight is simply. eating less. or eating more i mean it ah. and we get so complicated oh that my fat. they're like what's your fasting window. if i'm if i'm doing fasting it's just. because it works with my. my environment sometimes i do it. sometimes i don't. all that does is control how much. calories that you take. big success with keto and carnivore. diets it's hard to eat a lot. uh and and put on weight with those with.

those diets. um you know protein actually has a. thermogenic effect. and so you have to have a massive amount. of fats if you have a. only meat diet because you can literally. starve to death. there's a there's a show where they put. people out in the wilderness and this. guy. the one that won one of the ones i. looked in they threw him away like up in. the uh. past a lot you know out the way out. there there was nothing but he somehow. got a caribou and killed it. and he still lost a pound a day for 30. days with a caribou.

because his fat was stolen by a uh uh. and and he could eat all the meat he. wanted yeah and they he almost got. pulled because his weight lost right. um but that isn't actually a performance. so those type. keto and carnivore are not performance. diets so. they're not going to be as effective at. supplying. the energy needs for high capacity. training so don't get me wrong you can. do training but like. you can be a successful like elite. athlete. with a with a vegan diet but it's not.

as easy to do it with other diets so. and you're missing some base nutrients. so many nutrients in meat. i believe uh having greens in your diet. is really beneficial lots of research. but there's people in the other worlds. that argue that you don't need them but. they help. clear organs provide micronutrients all. this sort of stuff so. i eat simply a whole well-rounded diet. and i've gone from. i can go from 285 pounds squatting a ton.

of weight. to eating less and dropping all the way. down to you know seven eight percent. body fat with veins standing out. everywhere without a. tissue on me just with amazing great. tasting food. to lose weight or be healthy does not. mean that you need to eat. flavorless bland food so. that's the main thing portions it's eat. less to lose weight. eat more to gain weight yep make sure. that you've got enough protein make sure. that you've got your micronutrients. covered which is going to cover by. eating real food.

don't go low fat no fat if you want a. performance don't go no carb but if it. works any of those things. so diet approach when you look at diets. understand that they're how aggressive. they are so. like keto can make you lose a lot of. weight carnivore can make you lose a lot. of weight a lot of that up front. is actually dropping glycogen stores so. you're actually just reducing water in. your muscle and fat tissue. um so which is why it doesn't isn't as. great for a performance diet. but understand that every diet.

also has a level of discipline and does. it fit your. lifestyle so i suggest people don't find. a diet. you need to find a lifestyle because. that's what's sustainable i hate the. word. diet to begin with what behaviors. are sustainable and then do that. and then over time the things you'll get. to where you need to get. diet itself just by the name of it. is not sustainable because it it is a.

short-term. thing to get somewhere yeah. i tend to try to measure it because i. definitely have a love-hate relationship. with food. i tend to look back and say like by. following this particular. protocol lifestyle whatever what was the. level of happiness. yes so not like weight loss or. weight gain or all those kinds of things. it's the entirety of the picture. productivity. just feeling good throughout the day. socially also like yeah.

interacting with people because so much. of uh human connection like i mentioned. before is over food. and if you're going to limit yourself. well in that regard you're limiting a. certain fundamental aspect of life. a number of years ago um i did uh. like 20 to 22-hour fasts every day. and i'm like well this doesn't work i'm. i can't do business lunches and stuff. like that so when i was in my fasting. thing i went to a 16 so i could have a. light lunch. just for the social aspect of it and. perform a little perform that like.

and then that's why and that's why like. the typical bodybuilding like the eight. meal a day diet. um has never worked for me because i've. always been a very bit like trying to. fit that between meetings and other. stuff. what that diet provides is it just you. get less bloat and distension of a. larger meal. but at the end of the day you get the. same exact results pick a lifestyle. live that you can have really great. tasting food. and that to me is the same thing and. this is why i'm like really hitting this. point.

because also with the dieting and like. the approach like. oh i'm gonna do this and people pick. these chicken and broccoli. recipes and guess what you're going to. break if you do not in. if you do not enjoy it you will break. so that's it is a very important point. well i also slightly push back or maybe. to elaborate. if you don't enjoy moderation. for me particularly um i have trouble.

moderating certain things. most foods i would say so my source of. happiness comes with. foods even if they're bland the ones. that can enjoy but enjoy moderation. so there's i mean i enjoy every piece of. food so it's like it's uh if you can. enjoy. the the full lifestyle it's not just the. particular experience but like. the full journey yep does it fit your. lifestyle yeah. yeah so let me ask about uh.

a complicated uh topic that's sometimes. a bit controversial which is steroids it. may be. a trt testosterone replacement therapy. what role does that play in strength. training all right. we're gonna uh we're gonna go there. let's go uh yeah. but it's an important discussion to have. um i think that uh it's something that i. can be. more transparent on um in my past i. wasn't. able to do to the career that i had so.

just like. covering that stuff in a you know one on. a public forum. when you're highly looked at. being an executive for recruiting and. other stuff like. it was an area i had to just kind of. pass on right now i've used steroids. i've used them since i was 33. and i basically just used trt. now after my big squat so for 10 years.

i used them and there's some interesting. uh components to this so um. one is just the the gray area of what we. call performance enhancing. supplements so uh performance was it. peds. um that the line of what defines a ped. is ever shifting and it's shifting based. on. society norms cultural norms government. bonding agencies all these sorts of.

stuff so i'm not making excuses here so. i just want to elaborate before i. actually start digging into the details. here. because performance enhancing i could. take. sodium bicarbonate and. enhance my ability to perform deadlifts. for reps. guess what i did that for my guinness. world record for deadlifts in a minute. okay people do it for rowing or other. they use high capacity uh. type stuff it is performance enhancing. it is a chemical it is baking soda.

all right um they're not able to make it. illegal because they. everybody eats bread well not everyone. and so it's a little hard to test. for no matter what you do at any level. so that's an extreme example. but other examples um you're drinking a. an energy drink in that. cup there a little while ago and in. america you can get an energy drink with. 240 milligrams of caffeine in it. in canada that's too dangerous you can.

only get 140. but you can go buy ephedra and ephedra. is illegal in america. and so these things bounce back and. forth all the time. i could take yohimbi and in europe or. australia. it is a drug and classified and america. it's. it is not it's a it's an herbal root. uh in a lot i actually haven't won one. of my supplements except for the. overseas version. anyway the point i'm getting is no. matter what you do.

at some point there's by someone's. standards. you are cheating and. because it is you're taking something. that. but you could work around these things. with nutritional ways or other ways. versus taking a chemical structure and. there's a whole lot of ways to do this. but. it's like oh no it's steroids it's not. it's injectable it's not well. somewhere there's a culture or a person. that will say you're cheating no matter. what so it's a self-defined. you need to define it for yourself.

unless you're competing in an. organization. that has testing then it's a straight. ethical. uh thing and it's either right or wrong. in my opinion. that's that's kind of the the overall. dilemma of it is. if you want to see what you're totally. capable of. you have to decide decide yourself. what's. okay or not to to that level there is no. there is no body that can say something. yes or no. yeah when there's an event like the.

olympics maybe then. you have a standard that you're all. trying to adhere to. and then it makes sense to keep a. certain like to be within there's an. ethical there's no so yeah i'm not. talking about. that i'm agreeing to compete in this by. these by these rules yeah but when. you're trying to. maximize your own performance whatever. that journey is whatever. that goal is that's a different story. and it's not it's not easy to figure. that out. you go up you're just like dancing. around the subject whatever.

well guess what i've got a i've got a. prescription for growth hormone and. testosterone. it's legal for me to take and you know. what. a lot of the people that are in front of. the camera in the media. politicians and news people and the. people that. are there saying the the no drug stuff. they're going to anti-aging clinics to. look better and they have a prescription. for growth hormone. and testosterone themselves but in their. eyes. it's okay it is a prescription from. their doctor because they have the money.

to do it so it's legal. and it's fine if i it's interesting in. oregon. anybody and i don't know what other. states over the age of 16. can without parents permission by the. way walk into a gender clinic. and as a female and get a prescription. for testosterone. but as an athlete if i've got low. testosterone. i am so low i've got depression i.

can't have sex with my wife it's. affecting my quality of life. i will have to fight tooth and nail to. get testosterone. just as a prescription and then i will. get kicked out of my organization for. competing. like so you understand how gray this. stuff gets do you think the stigma. on testosterone is the reason we're not. having like a healthy conversation about. when it's proper. like what are the proper uses of. testosterone in an athlete's life in.

just a regular human life. yeah absolutely i mean and it's just. it's like anything. it's like i said it is lines that we. pick and draw anytime you. put that out there people are going to. have different opinions where those. lines are. so now when it comes to strength here's. an interesting thing in powerlifting. there's tested federations and. non-tested federations so we can. literally look at the statistical data. and actually find out what do steroids. do. and so it's pretty clear that steroids. provide about a ten percent.

increase in strength on average over. not now that does take out the fact that. steroids will put you in. uh allow you to put on more mass so. you'll go up a weight class. a lot of times so as a whole you could. definitely lift. more probably than the 10 over time. right and then we think about steroids. as the ability to just put on muscle. and here's where things get a little. interesting even with people that use. steroids is not understanding the. neurological impacts. that steroids have because you could.

take some steroids. right now and be stronger in 10 minutes. that's clearly not done anything you. know from a physiology. standpoint to make you stronger but we. have a tapped in. neurologically to to elicit those gains. and there's a whole lot that happens. neurologically like how much science. is there in terms of all the different. ways you could take steroids. which kinds of steroids the timing the. the dose. the all of those things to develop the.

the neurological the physical the. skeleton like all. all the you know you've talked with such. depth about the science. of strength building in terms of. form uh in terms of the equipment that. you use. it seems like a component. you know the use of steroids should be. an equal. level of scientific rigor when applying. them it is. now the research is harder to to get. because of what it is um but there is a.

lot of research. that was done when they were legal so. they were legal up in. through the uh through i think the mid. 80s and so. a lot of the classical um high. high benefit to low risk steroids were. studied. and then since then there's a lot of. like designer steroids or new steroids. that have come up that. don't have a lot of research around. safety. and risk and things of that nature and. we can't do that because it's.

you know because of the legality around. these things. but some of the stuff on the. neurological function is really. just understanding how that chemical. structure uh. works and what it's doing to the. neurotransmitters what it's doing. and so some of it is is really talking. to people that have experience with it. um. and the other is understanding those. structures and what they do. the neurological component i think is. more interesting than.

than most because the most steroids act. through increasing muscle protein. synthesis that's how you add more muscle. is they have an anti-catabolic effect. and they have a muscle protein synthesis. enhancing effect so it reduces the. amount of muscle that you waste and. increases the amount of muscle that you. put on. but the neurological component. is is tremendously valuable for what it. can do. for your training workout like if i.

handle more load over time. i'm going to make more progress if i can. actually just stimulate more. neurological effects for a specific. event. it's going to have an impact right but. there's other ways that you can tap into. this too. things that you can tap into mentally. with great practice with meditation and. other stuff that. will have the same effect people. probably think i'm over speaking. especially. steroid users that are listening to this. at least i'm talking out my ass. but i'm not because i i.

i have experience with this stuff on. both ends and some of those areas a lot. of people don't have. the experience with that what i've kind. of. heard from people is the the confidence. that comes with steroids it feels like. not to call it placebo but it seems like. the psychological benefits of steroids. is huge. and that you feel like uh there's a. confidence. that seems to be uh coupled with the. actual biological and chemical effects.

i have a actually a neurological. condition um so i actually don't. feel a lot of that stuff that people. because there's certain steroids that. like people will like. you're like very extreme ones um. like that would make somebody bite. someone's ear off in a fight for example. yeah. um aggression that and. they'll literally do nothing i'm like. always just chilling and. they don't like effect. but but neurologically they're still. having those effects but i don't get.

those feels that. other people uh have from those but yes. there's that immediate boost in. aggression. and the confidence and stuff that come. with a lot of those ones that deal on. the neurological. overall a good sense of well-being just. like from being on testosterone like. it's going to affect your mood and it's. interesting so testosterone replacement. therapy. if we walk down that path now and kind. of switch gears. you know we find that men today have. declining testosterone.

over what has historically been in the. past so. right now i think a 35 year old. testosterone. is shown to be about half what it was. just 50 years ago so i don't know if. we could argue the point we don't really. have the science to validate any of it. but. it could be uh society as far as the. impact that it's having on the. mental uh health uh for. men it could be the the estrogens. floating around in the water.

from all the chemicals and birth control. and all this sort of stuff could be a. lot of things. but it is a fact that average. testosterone is significantly lower. and that is going to end up affecting. life. quality of life as well as your. longevity because it will affect those. things but on the other end. steroids and trt particularly steroids. come with a lot of negative health. benefits. not benefits a lot of negative health. ramifications. and so you know if i knew what i know.

now. i don't know that i would have gone that. path i didn't i didn't tell i was 33. which is kind of an outlier for a. strength athlete um. i was i was a four times body weight. deadlifter 800 plus pounds at. 198 and it's pretty dang strong uh. before i. went down that path uh and that's. because i wanted to see what i was. capable of but i was reaching a point. that. it was either i need to do that or not. my testosterone my natural testosterone. levels. were actually um i think below 300.

is actually the threshold so i was being. told to go on trt for the last. couple years probably just because i was. pushing so hard and the stress level was. driving my test down so it was. self-imposed. more than likely but i put it off. because i wanted to set all the. drug-free. records and i set the ones that i wanted. and then it was 33 i'm. you know entering the age category and. i'm like i'm going to go on trt. i did not feel like i should be with trt. personally my ethical standard was i. shouldn't be competing in tested events. anymore. um there are federations that will allow.

you with your you show up with your. script and you do your test and you're. below a certain level but you're still. on. which but for me i'm like that's not. over you won't come so i'm like i may as. well at this point use steroids. um but since then you know understanding. all those ramifications. uh you know i might not have gone down. that route quite so fast. and easily but i continued because i. also have a lot of resources that other. people don't in being able to assess and.

understand and put things in place to. mitigate that so you need to be. and the other thing is once you go on. it's literally a decision for life. not neces but realistically is because. your your quality of life your feeling. is going to be enhanced quite a bit. and you're not going to want to go back. and if you go back it's going to be less. than it was before. that's how the endocrine system works. there are ways to try to recover and. bring that up but it might be a while. and if you've been on for a while it. definitely is not an option.

so those are big things that people need. to understand that you're going to have. some things in there. and even trt has some potential. especially with at higher levels that. it's going to. you know increase the risk for prostate. cancer. it's going to potentially cause some. hypertrophy of the left ventricle of the. heart and some potential. plaque buildup of the some of those key. arteries around there that's going to. have an impact on. your cardiovascular health there's.

things that you can do. again but everything is like the shoe. story right where i'm anti-anti-shu. but i'm going well we can put band-aids. on this yeah um so it's. there's a quality of life that comes. with it the increase in quality of life. and if you do it correctly i think and i. think for me for me i definitely would. not live without trt even with knowing. what i know now. um it this age and the quality of life. and being able to be there have the. energy. the recovery that's a big thing where.

all this so i talked about. muscle protein synthesis and. anti-catabolism as being big drivers. but recovery is the other big aspect. that they that they offer probably as a. result of those but. um that's gonna those are gonna be the. big enhancements so. just doing steroids steroids is going to. increase all the other stuff that you do. so if you've. if you have good training you have good. diet good quality of sleep like all this. other stuff. then you can take advantage of that but.

you could shoot steroids and nobody. would know. and honestly you go down to 24-hour. fitness and you'll see a bunch of. you know late you know 19 to 21 year old. kids that are all kind of red and. 150 pounds that look like that don't. look like anything yeah. and there a bunch of them will be using. steroids. because yeah they're not like so it's. it's not the it's not going to make a. champion like you said it's not going to. at most. guess what i was already at an elite. level i was one of the best in the world.

before i started using it doesn't it. doesn't do that. it does a 10 increase at best yeah and. that's proven in the statistics which is. interesting because most people don't. know this like. it the data is right there yeah. yeah and that's why i i'm often saddened. by. maybe um the negative. view of somebody like lance armstrong. who's. one of the greatest athletes in history.

and everybody else that he was competing. against i'm sorry. yeah i hate to blow anybody's bubble but. regardless if i told you my ethical uh. pieces with. saying that you're going to be at. something at an elite level. you look at most a lot of those big. figures out there. when the their income and your life. relies on it yeah you're going to push. those limits so. maybe maybe my ethical would change if. if if i was in that position too. because here's the thing what i believe. like.

someone is i think people should avoid. steroids. um trt probably something worth taking a. look at what your levels are when you're. in the 35 to 45 range. and see what decision you decide to make. from there and that's a decision that. you make for. the rest of your life the only times. that you should be taking a look at. steroids. is if it's it's funding your life it's. creating. that it is your job and it's doing like. and honestly. it was for me like i so. was it the only thing no no.

if you want to get into neurology uh. neurotransmitters. and alcohol there's a really interesting. discussion on performance enhancement um. so when i lift heavy. um and so i always promote it like not. more than a drink or two like once or. twice a month is what all i'm talking. about when i'm. when i'm saying this so like what's the. timing of the drink over talking. it's about three to five minutes before. yes. and we're talking about beer it doesn't. matter the uh the source. so um i shots are the easiest you want.

something that is not going to have some. sort of regurgitatory effect or. bloating effect or anything like that. but you want to have the quick hit of. energy so it's a. preferential energy source moves above. ketones carbs. everything it's seven calories per gram. but then there's. some really interesting things that. happen spikes blood pressure which is. going to make weights feel lighter. so when you're in your early 20s and. you're trying to hit up you know. some attractive person at the bar and. you're with your buddies. and you're like ah you know and you got.

second guess oh should i. and they go have a shot of liquid. courage. and you have one and all of a sudden the. the second thoughts the second guessing. all that drops away like you're focused. in the moment uh. and you walk over and you actually. perform a little better like. conversation wise than you normally. would now if you have five or six and. then go over. you're gonna make a fool of yourself so. it's all about timing an amount but. there is a reason that that happens. so anyway i'm known for promoting this. whiskey and deadlift concept. um i love this but but it works like the.

eastern block bloc. that's where that's where i stole it. from because i was watching. all these russian lifters would have a. shot of vodka or something before they. go lyft and i'm like there's something. here. so i started experimenting with it and. i'm like that works and then i started. researching nobody talks about this. stuff so it takes a while to start. piecing together. all the stuff that actually happens to. make that happen but. it moves away the things that you're. going to. the concerns about the ramifications in. the future and the other stuff so the.

um but brings you into the moment and. then the. the dopamine hit in the other and then. it uh enhances whatever mood that you're. in but all of a sudden you get. in the state much. easier and so it's really really. interesting but it's. very it's a very small amount needed and. very time sensitive. but it can be so much more powerful than. like drugs people use. for this stuff it ties really together. with meditative state and other pieces. to.

to to get you into that flow state those. thoughts about. failure what if whatever like all that. you you get into. that zone that moment that time. um anyway so interesting and alcoholic. is promoting out you know. uh no but there's an important point. here it's not often talked about i think. it is fascinating that. because you can get into so much trouble. with alcohol when used in excess people. don't often talk about the. the positive aspects of alcohol even in.

your. college years it had. it had a lasting effect on who i am as a. person i don't think people can. give enough credit to the positive. aspect see. you could have accomplished a lot of. those same things with a little more. moderation. which i think people should talk about. more which is like. the the way to open up a personality. like the flowering of the full character. and the weirdness. and the the like the beauty of who you. are as a human being could be opened up. with alcohol. and that's really interesting to think.

about you should try some podcasts. with a with a shot and and these yeah. you know actually. with myself and guests and it will. change the conversation lubricates this. the conversation definitely not the. excess and which is what i learned. because i went all the way in because i. do everything at extremes. yeah so it was a really hard lesson that. took me a lot of time to unwind. but it is interesting and people don't. discuss those things because it's.

it's either this or this you're one of. the greatest strength. athletes of all time so it's worthwhile. to consider. how you optimize the the feast of. strength that you. reach for uh with things like steroids. it makes perfect sense and i think that. was a. from my perspective i think it was. probably the right decision you've. achieved something incredible that. inspires. a huge number of people that's it and. you've shown to yourself into the world.

but what the human body can accomplish. yep that's incredible. and no matter if i push to a less weight. and if i disclosed everything that i did. and i didn't when i wasn't using. steroids in my opinion if we went. through everything there would people. that would say. you're using performance enhancing yeah. no matter what like it is. it's straight up so you just need to be. okay with it yourself and so i had to. make the call. i want to see what the true potential is. of. ever let's throw everything out the. window that i feel unless i feel it's a.

risk. from a from a health standpoint that i'm. not willing to take on. and because that's how do i like. it's just picking and choosing yeah and. it's just picking and choosing i. here's what i want to know this is what. i want to be able to try to achieve. and so yeah yeah that's what i did and. and what you did. is incredible like it's it's just awe. inspiring and it was pretty. strong did was incredible yeah and uh. and that aced me up. and what's funny is the people that. basham are like on the media or. politicians or maybe some actors.

and guess what a ton of them are doing. the same thing. it's hypocrisy at its finest trust me. but how many. how many of those figures you're. watching in movies that love to talk. you know people you know be political. and do this and. the news and all this i'm telling you. there. there's anti-aging clinics like all. over california and everywhere else. who do you think just keeps them in. business well it's not the competitive. lifter i'll tell you that.

well that's yes and they're using. peptides and also. in psalms and all sorts of like. you're speaking to the hypocrisy i also. want to speak to the. the fact you know somebody's a friend of. mine david goggins i don't know if you. know that is. ultra marathon runner um navy seal. he gets pretty incredible person yeah. incredible human being and he gets. criticism like. you know what you're doing is um is bad. for the body you know you're you're. pushing yourself too far.

i find that the people that criticize. are often people that. haven't truly pushed themselves to the. limit. they haven't actually worked hard in. their life when you. work hard you realize how incredible it. is that a human being. can dedicate themselves so fully to an. effort. the way you did the way david goggins. does. the way the way the greatest athletes do. and. there's nothing that should be said.

beyond just sitting back in awe. that humans can achieve that and that. inspires me. to do the best whatever the hell i do to. be the the best version of that. there's something about like athletic. feats especially like. strength that just en. inspire us to do the best uh to be the. best version of ourselves i don't know. and. that's the only thing you should be. saying as opposed to. uh criticizing some little detail of. this and that.

it's just an awe inspiring that you push. yourself anybody that is at that level. and this is funny like in competitive. sports like you go online and people is. just bash bash bash. bash back back you go talk to anybody. anybody. anybody that's a high-level athlete. within that field. and nobody has a single bad thing to say. about each other. but all this chitter chatter down there. i mean i know exactly what you're saying. so if you i i would say because i have. love for. all those folks especially when you're.

younger you have a little bit of that. desire to criticize others like i think. that should be channeled. in improving your own life any time that. you feel that way. that is when you need to turn inward. yeah and it's hard to do. but there is a reason that you have. those emotions. around someone else and what they're. doing that. you have an opportunity to look at. yourself and know why you. feel that way and that guess what that's.

going to be the hard thing to do that's. going to be the thing again that's. stirring you a little bit because it's. so much easier to sit there. and uh or talk to your confidante or. whatever instead of go. why does that bother me yeah why does. what that person doing or what that. person's achieving. bother me it's like a difficult question. that i often ask others. whether it's better to work hard or work.

smart. i like to ask that question because it. helps me get a sense of the human being. and i think i. let me just say like i often. i often like people that answer that. would work hard. even though the quote unquote right. answers work smart. meaning like finding the optimal. efficient way to achieve a certain goal.

i find that people that answer work. smart. don't actually find the optimal. efficient way to achieve a goal. it seems like the people that at least. certainly early in life. strive to work their ass off even that. means. doing the inefficient the dumb thing. just to learn. the mistake the spirit behind the human. spirit behind the person that says. or a card is is the one that i connect. with but i'm. i'm torn especially in the in the war.

culture in the tech sector where people. answer work smart. what would you um what would you say. about that technician. this definitely encompasses like. i i'm the intellectual and i'm the meat. head. i'm the work around the clock yeah and. go fix the processes and make it so much. better. type person right that's that's that's. me and all that's everything that's my. life story right. busting your ass to find the easiest way. possible. to both so like.

i will i will build. a custom hydraulic cart that will lift. my plates up to the height of my. my squat so that i can minimize they. roll it over next to it and then. minimize the effort of it going on and. off. yeah to be able to lift the most amount. of weight as possible. yeah so so that i can save the energy. from here. from lifting those up and the fatigue of. my back being in bad position.

so i can nearly kill myself over here. yes right i. [Laughter]. my wife anybody will say i'm a. workaholic yeah. and the the first thing that i would do. when it would be uh doing. a company a company turnaround they'd. hire me come in. and i would be taking over for someone. that wasn't successful. but it was usually hardly ever for lack. of want or trying. so a lot of times they knew they were. unsuccessful and they were running. around. working six seven days a week 12 hour.

days. doing so much and be like well you need. to do this and they train me on like. all the reports and this and all the. things and like good luck. good luck i couldn't do it and the first. thing i would do. is nothing. i would do nothing. because then i would find what actually. keeps coming back the things that i need. to do and how much of it was filling the.

space. because so much of human nature when. you're failing. is to make yourself feel like you're. accomplishing things this is when things. go on your list. on your checklist and you start like. rolling up so. are you running around just getting shit. done yeah yeah being busy. right and so yeah so. but at the same time like find somewhere. in my career something i've done. where i haven't outworked everybody just. so much on distilling.

things down to what's important yeah and. you've got to make time to. sit back and assess and. think and be introspective you have to. make time for this. because if not you're going to waste so. much time sitting there. walking sideways when. all you got to do is move just one step. in front of the other each day just one. that's all i say because.

it's gonna add up but you could spend. six months. knocking shit out doing your routine. busting your ass. and not take that one step. so you've got to distill stuff down. you've got to really understand. like what's important to you in life and. where you're going and. when you're looking at anything in your. life the first thing that you need to do. is figure out do i need to do it and. just.

quit doing it just quit doing things in. your life. and you'll see that a lot of stuff that. you think has to be done. doesn't have to be done you'd be. surprised. and then from there this is the tech. okay then of that what can i. what can i automate what can i. not have to do in a repeated fashion and. then. the last one yeah wherever possible if. it's not something that i'm adding. tremendous value to. like my uniqueness people like oh you.

must like do the auto work on your. vehicles because you love working like. fuck that i don't they're like what that. doesn't make any sense you and i'm like. no i love creating things yeah but i. don't want to do. that stuff so you could use delegating. if you're a manager position but it's. outsourcing whatev what. uh whatever it is but there are also so. many things. this and this this ties back to your. point uh around. just doing it there's a point to like. experiencing.

all levels to really understand things. you need. to spend time at the same time doing all. those things because there could be good. huge massive gaps in there that you're. not aware of. that are key for you or key to be having. done different or so on. so um like in my company days. i was one of the few executives that. came in. that could do anything on the floor from. code. to machine run a lathe a mill weld.

do all step into engineering like. and and that added tremendous value to. me to having had spent time. being a doer and not enough people want. to be. you've got to just go do shit yeah you. need to spend time in your life chopping. wood. yeah get a lot of shit doesn't matter. you gotta have experience. trying and doing and doing all these. things that you would never. like my skill set is massive because. i want to know like you need to have.

those touch points. my job my title is chief visionary. but i've spent time doing everything. it's not about just like creating this. amazing strategy or vision and i'm just. going to be there and this person that. directs and like like. you can't be effective you cannot. connect the dots. unless you've been in the moment with. everything yeah. low-level stuff sometimes it's doing.

stupid shit that you're not. uniquely qualified to do that anybody. could do but you did it anyway. just the training environment people hit. me up at. a school or wherever like hey how do i. get into i want to grow my grow my brand. online i want to do this like where do i. where do i start i'm like. go get a job at planet fitness or 24. hour fitness they're like but. i wanna you know where how do i get you. know recognize them write articles and. be an online coach i'm like. you need to go spend a few years.

one-on-one training people yeah to learn. like the interaction how people there's. base levels you have to do. you've got to go work your way up from. the ground. yeah i truly believe it well i think. that's the hard work piece that i'm. speaking to. that i like it when people have been. humbled by the hardness of life. like how difficult it is to do stuff and. it does to me. i went and got my mba i went to mit i.

don't need to do that stuff i'm above. that. yeah yeah that that's once you've been. humble by doing those things i feel. like you can truly explore. the the optimization that you're talking. to finding the ways where you're. uniquely. capable to add value to the world and. then. and then again work your ass off to be. the best in the world at that thing. yes uh so it's always then don't waste. your time on don't. shit that's not a line yeah that's the. only so that's i guess there's a lot of.

context i put around that. um but yeah that was like a long answer. to uh. a long beautiful answer to a. unanswerable question. do you have advice outside of all this. discussion to young people today about. career about life. since you've done so many things you've. overcome a lot of things. i think high school college student. thinking about what to do in their life. do you have advice for those guys and. girls. yeah yeah first is.

you don't have it figured out so don't. worry just jump in. yeah um we talked uh you know a lot. about. understanding your values and aligning. all that stuff but. you got to have a base level of start. exploring and learning. and uh just spending the time doing like. pick something let me elaborate a little. bit no you know what a lot of people. struggle with that aspect now because. the choice there's so much choice. it's difficult to pick something but i.

think it does boil down to you should. pick something and don't worry about it. and then but within that. you can start discovering the things. that are there for you. like i i talked about i made this huge. shift i threw away a whole life. but i don't regret anything about that. i wouldn't be where i was if i didn't. walk through and learn those things and. in fact. in the course of that i learned just how. much. that inspiring people and helping them.

realize the potential far beyond what. they thought was capable and guess what. that was leadership 101 in. managing people base level floor level. right. and i got a lot out it was perfectly. aligned with what and that's what i. realized it didn't matter. um what industry i was in or any of. those other things. but i was able you can see so many. things there's so many paths that you. can go down to help you. realize what those things are and you're.

going to be able to find. a lot of those nuggets and develop those. do you think that i could have just. gone to school and got out and. started a globally recognized brand. within a few years. without having been schooled in business. while getting paid for it by others. for years and in fact that entire time i. knew that that's what i wanted to do but. i didn't go out on it.

i mentored some of my friends along the. same path. to go no they're like i'm ready i'm. ready to go do this and i'm like no. now you need to go get a job you yeah. you know engineering management design. all that stuff. go get a job as a as a manager now like. oh that's a step down i can't do that. i'm like go try it. a couple years ago oh my god that was. such a good move i didn't know what i. didn't know. and now they're an executive for. freaking a fortune 500 company. and the same thing like i sat there. knowing that i was getting a free. education.

don't stress yourself out as my that's. my advice. don't stress yourself out that you've. got to have this perfect thing. because this process of understanding. your values and the interest but that. takes time. you can get a job where you're getting. paid to learn. exactly that's a good deal before you. launch on your own. you mentioned um going back to darkness. i'm russian. so like going back to darkness you. suffered from depression. you considered suicide do you ponder.

your own death these days. do you think about your mortality are. you afraid of death. i definitely think about mortality. and am i afraid of my own death. it depends on the moment if i'm in the. middle of a project i definitely want to. finish that project man. but i don't. fear it so much i fear. leaving my kids.

or my wife um and not being able to be. there. for them that bothers me outside of that. i know that i put everything into. what i at the life that i've lived. like he said there's always more but. like i've lived hard. i've loved hard yeah i've. every moment in my life i've made.

connections and impacted people around. me. for the better and this tracks back. which is crazy when we're doing the. documentary. and they're interviewing people through. my whole life and the consistency of the. themes of anyone like. anything for duffin like just sure i'll. fly in from boston all the like these. people like all the. like it was crazy like everybody had a. story. about me giving like just over and over. and i didn't even really. it's just the way you were but i've been.

all in. i don't have like i have a lot more i. want to do. but i don't have things that. regret have not done in like i don't. fear it. i don't fear it yeah it's like the i. don't know if you know the bukowski poem. go all the way. otherwise don't even try uh it seems. like you embody that poem. and you've accomplished some incredible. things. and serve as an inspiration to a huge.

number of people chris. you're an amazing human being i'm really. honored that you would spend your. valuable time with me. thank you so much for talking with me. today it was incredible i can't wait to. check out all the cool stuff you've. engineered with kabuki strength. so i'm uh obviously i love the i love. strength i love strength training i love. the idea of strength i love the. um the equipment and the engineering. approach. you take the strength you're an. incredible human. both on the things you've accomplished.

in terms of your own. strength feats and uh the kind of. science and engineering you bring to the. field. uh that many others could use so thank. you so much for talking today. thanks for having me on that was that's. quite the. final thank you thanks for listening to. this conversation with chris duffin. and thank you to headspace magic spoon. sun basket and ladder check them out in. the description to support this podcast.

and now let me leave you with some words. from arnold schwarzenegger. strength does not come from winning your. struggles. develop your strengths when you go. through hardship. and decide not to surrender that is. strength. thank you for listening and hope to see. you next time. you.