Witness No-Show Rocks D4vd Tesla Investigation: Report

Did a witness refuse to testify in the. David Celeste Rivas Hernandez case? New. reporting suggests that a witness didn't. show up to testify in front of a. reported grand jury hearing evidence and. the prosecutor is allegedly going to. have this person detained and brought. into court. Wild new update we need to. talk [music] about and how it fits into. the overall puzzle of this story. Welcome to Sidebar presented by Law and. Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Okay, before we go any further into. this, got to talk about something. It's.

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evidence in connection with the death of. 14-year-old Celeste Rivas Hernandez, whose dead body was found in a Tesla. that was registered to the romantic. homicide singer. This was back in. September out in LA. More specifically. though, TMZ was reporting, and this is. what we talked about yesterday, that the. president of David's touring company was. questioned as part of these grand jury. proceedings, that he was questioned by a. deputy district attorney in front of. this grand jury on Monday, referring to. Robert Morgan Roth, who heads up Mogul. Vision, that's David's Record label, and.

also Zara Brothers Travel. It's the. touring company. TMZ had reported, we. talked about this, that Morgan Roth had. allegedly come out of the courtroom, was. in the hallway, was allegedly overheard. telling his lawyer that the DA, who was. questioning him, quote, "She was very. pushy on why I didn't call police." I. said, "I feel like I didn't have the. responsibility to do that, and just. wanted to continue with the tour." As we. discussed, this raises a lot of. questions about if this is true. Are we. talking about knowledge of a crime? What. crime is David involved? We know David.

was on tour when Celeste's body was. found. That tour was ultimately. cancelled. David has been basically MIA. But now, what are we talking about? New. update. TMZ is also reporting that there. may be some serious problems in the. grand jury proceeding right now that a. witness is refusing to cooperate. Now, in TMZ's report, they mentioned that. Beth Silverman, so the deputy Los. Angeles district attorney who may be. spearheading this case. We don't know. for sure, but may again, and I listed.

this out in our previous sidebar, she's. a career prosecutor who's worked on. major major murder cases. Well, TMZ. reports that Beth Silverman allegedly. went into the courtroom hallway and. started talking to attorney Evan Jennis. Jennis apparently represents Morgan. Roth. And this is where Silverman. allegedly told Jennice that she is going. to petition the judge to issue a body. attachment. So apparently a legal. mechanism to compel a witness here, an.

unidentified female to testify before. the grand jury that this person would be. taken into custody and brought into this. grand jury hearing. Why? Because. reportedly this witness just didn't show. up to testify. Now, as TMZ reports, they. don't know who this person is. They. comment that it's interesting. Uh, by. the way, they say female. So, we don't. know if we're talking a woman, a minor, we don't know, but female. But TMZ, it's. interesting. They're seemingly. suggesting that Jennice may represent. both Morgan Roth and this unidentified.

female witness. We don't know the. apparent connection between the two of. them. But obviously, this is noteworthy. if true. Now, TMZ is also reporting that. Silverman went into a courtroom with. Morgan Roth and his lawyer. that there. was a TMZ reporter that was allegedly. told by the judge to leave. And I will. also mention that TMZ has done more of a. deep dive into Morgan Roth as well. They're now reporting that he was. working for and with David daytoday as. his manager. By the way, apparently. David also has another manager, Josh.

Marshall. He was the one who apparently, according to private investigator Steve. Fischer, and Steve Fischer is looking. into this case, that Marshall had signed. the lease on the property that David was. staying at in the Hollywood Hills, which. was reportedly near where the Tesla was. found and towed. That property, by the. way, was searched by authorities. David. reportedly broke the lease, moved this. stuff out, but managers, they may have a. connection here. All of this reporting, all these alleged developments come as. there is no arrest in this case, no. charges. is David has not officially.

been implicated in any wrongdoing. While. there is reporting that indicates David. is being considered a suspect, LAPD. hasn't officially confirmed this. They. have acknowledged potential connection. to the Celeste investigation. nonetheless. And this grand jury, which. I mentioned before, we can't even. officially confirm it's going on. But if. it is, we're also not entirely sure if. it's a grand jury that returns an. indictment or what was originally. reported by outlets like the LA Times. that this is an investigative grand. jury, one that helps in producing and.

presenting evidence and recommending. charges but not issuing a formal. indictment. That may be left to a future. grand jury. Again, we don't know for. sure. But what we do know is that the. LAPD has been very tight- lipped about. this and that they successfully. petitioned the court to seal the medical. examiner's records on this case, including releasing any information on. cause and manner of death of Celeste. while this investigation continues. They. said in a statement that order was. sought only to ensure detectives from. the robbery homicide division learned of. important information surrounding her.

death before the media and the public. The order was not sought to undermine. transparency. I want to talk about the. latest in this. Let me bring in uh Mark. Weaver, prosecutor, former deputy. attorney general. Uh so good to have you. on. Thank you for taking the time. Um. are you surprised how much we're. potentially potentially learning about a. grand jury? I thought traditionally we. would have no idea if a grand jury was. even being impanled, let alone who would. be testifying. Well, when I'm in a grand jury as a.

prosecutor, I take great care to make. sure that the general public doesn't. know what we're doing. But in a busy. courthouse, when a prosecutor goes out. into a hallway to talk to the lawyer for. one of the witnesses, there's going to. be people there who overhear. Perhaps. she could have been a little more. cautious. But remember, the people who. testify in front of a grand jury, the. witnesses like this tour manager you. mentioned, they [snorts] are not bound. by the grand jury secrecy rules the way. the grand jurors, the judge, the.

prosecutor, and the prosecutor's staff. are. So, some of this could be overheard. in the hallway. Some of this could be. witnesses who've appeared leaking what. happened in the grand jury. Let me just. be clear about that. You're saying grand. jury witnesses come out, go on. television, and say everything they. testified to. >> They can. They're not supposed to. We. saw that, you know, as prosecutors, we. asked them remain confidential. We don't. have the legal ability to do this. We. saw this in the case in Georgia, the.

criminal case against Donald Trump, where we actually had the four women of. the grand jury, she shouldn't have been. talking because she's a grand juror. But. the witnesses who go in front of a grand. jury, we don't have a legal mechanism in. most states to be able to stop that from. happening. Steve Fischer, the private. investigator who I mentioned before, we. talked about it yesterday. He had a long. social media post where he basically. said he was being compelled to appear in. court for a contempt hearing because of. what he testified to as a witness in a. grand jury proceeding. You wouldn't.

confirm if of course if whether or not. it was regarding Celeste or or David. But read between the lines, you can make. the argument that it was. So if he's. listening to this, he probably would. love to hear your perspective on this. He supports your perspective on this. He. said he testified. His concern was that. he he he he according to him, he was. accused of being held in contempt or. potentially held in contempt because he. spoke about the case. >> Now, the law may be different in. California uh than it is where I. practice, but typically you cannot bind.

witnesses from speaking. I'm not a. California lawyer. I do know this. When. the judge gets involved, that usually. means something has gone wrong within. the grand jury either. as you mentioned, potential witnesses talking when they. were told not to or not answering every. question, only answering some of the. questions. >> Let me ask you this. If this reporting. is true, what do you make of a potential. uncooperative witness? Does that happen? And why does that happen? >> It's rare. I've been a prosecutor um.

part-time since 2001. I've only ever had. to use a body attachment once. And. >> by the way, explain what a body. attachment is. >> Yeah, it sounds like a piercing, doesn't. it? It's just a legal term that means uh. let's get the person the body. Habius. corpus the corpus of habius corpus means. body produce the body Latin term right. and so a body attachment is an order. from a court that someone who is. unwilling to abide by normal legal. process. Normal legal process would be a. subpoena. You receive something either.

in the mail or from a process server. saying that you need to show up for a. proceeding. Could be a grand jury, could. be a deposition, could be a trial. subpoena. And when someone refuses to do. that, a a court can order a a body. attachment, which is an order to the. sheriff's deputy or some other court. officer to go get that person, keep them. in custody until they testify. Most. people don't know that you don't have to. be the defendant to go to jail in a.

criminal case. You could be a witness. who's refusing to show up. >> And um one of the things that I thought. about why this might be happening, why. would somebody not want to testify, refused to show up? Either it was. unintentional, they forgot about it, they slept late, whatever. Or if this is. so highprofile and it's already being. reported that there's names of people. who are testifying in front of the grand. jury, that person may not want to show.

up. the high-profile nature of this, the. celebrity nature of this, if that is a. legitimate concern, don't they have to. walk through the same doors as everybody. else? I mean, am I wrong that that could. be a possibility? Now, I think you're. right. No reasonable judge would issue a. body attachment for an absent-minded. witness, which any of us could be. Alarm. clock didn't go off. We forgot we had a. doctor's appointment. We're sick. This. is such a strong use of government power. to reach out and take somebody who's not. accused of a crime and yank them into.

custody that a judge would not do that. for an absent-minded witness. A judge. would only do that for a recalcitrant. witness, someone who is either dodging. service, which was the case I had in a. child rape case I prosecuted where I. couldn't get the witness to take the. service, or someone who got the service. and then refused to show up. >> It could also be I mean, look what we're. talking about here. We're talking about. the disposal of a teenager's body, potentially a homicide investigation. Is. a possibility a grand jury witness could.

be scared? >> Certainly, there's lots of reasons why. someone might be recalcitrant. They. could be scared. They could be worried. about notoriety and not wanting to be. drugging that a story because they're a. private person. They might not want to. implicate someone who they love or. they're close to. You mentioned earlier. that the deputy district attorney was. speaking to the private lawyer about. this case, the private lawyer who. represented the tour manager. The fact. that that DA, that deputy DA would speak. to that lawyer, I think that's almost a.

certainty that that lawyer represents. the recalcitrant witness, which means. likely, now I'm surmising here, likely. the recalcitate witness is within the. inner circle of David the way this tour. manager is within the inner circle of. David. Are there any mechanisms the. court or the DA can put in place to. ensure someone's safety, to ensure that. their identity is not revealed? Can they. go through a back door? Can a courtroom. be changed? I mean, it was being. reported that TMZ had tried to get into. that courtroom uh and were kicked out.

Um, is there any ways creative ways to I. mean, this is not a case that you see. every day and assuming there is really a. grand jury impanled in in this. investigation. Are there mechanisms in. place to ensure that the proceedings. stay secret, that witnesses will not be. identified? Is there anything to do? >> Yes. Um, I tell witnesses for grand. jury, we can keep your information. confidential because of the criminal. rules, specifically 6E allows us to do. that. But if this witness gives us. information that helps us solve this.

crime at grand jury, I always have to. let the witness know it's entirely. possible we will need to call you at a. trial and you're not allowed to testify. under pseudonym at a trial. We have. public trials in America. We have what's. called the confrontation clause of the. constitution which requires that the. defendant be able to confront the. accuser in open court. So we have some. mechanism to protect people in the grand. jury process. But when you take the. stand in a trial, you cannot be you. might be able to keep your name separate.

from the press. That's kind of rare, but. I've seen that you cannot keep your name. separate from the defendant against whom. you're testifying. >> That raises a different point. Anybody. who testifies in front of the grand jury. necessarily would they testify in in a. trial. I've been told, right, if you. testify in front of the grand jury, you're locking in your testimony. That. is what you said. if it should change. later on at a trial, you're going to be. confronted with it, right? I imagine. that's what what we're saying. Um, but. it is it always that the people who.

testify in a grand jury are the ones who. testify uh at a trial or sometimes you. might not need to call them at a trial. >> Most commonly, people who testify in. grand juries will testify at the trial. You're right that as prosecutors, we. often want somebody to go in front of a. grand jury because we do want to lock. them into their testimony. Remember, they're under oath in grand jury. And if. they say something later in the public. setting that's different, there's a. process. It's a little complicated by. which we can impeach them with prior.

statements. Certainly, the defendant, if. they find out about the grand jury by. getting a copy of the transcript from. the judge, they could also impeach that. person. But it is not required that all. witnesses called to grand jury be called. to trial. As a prosecutor, I get to. decide whoever I want to call at trial. because I'm the one with the burden of. proof. I'm going to be very speculative. here, but assuming there is a problem. with this witness, is it a symptom of. what a prosecution could look like in. this case? And it's so difficult to say. because we don't even know who the. defendants are. We don't even know what.

charges will there be, if any. But I do. wonder if this will make it a difficult. prosecution, high-profile case, lot of. eyeballs on it. Would it be a difficult. case for Beth Silverman to try, assuming. for the moment that she's actually the. prosecutor who would go forward with the. case? And it's so speculative because we. don't even have a case yet. We don't. even know. >> That's the problem when you start with a. decomposing body and no witnesses of how. that body got there. At least not at. first. It starts out as a very difficult. case because the body might have been in.

the front trunk of that Tesla for hours. or days maybe. >> saying it was there for quite some time. They're saying there. >> and as a result evidence is degrading. and finding out who was there when it. happened is degrading. Still possible. You know, there's Ring doorbell cameras, there's security camera, there's people. who will talk, but you're starting out. with a tough case when you find a body. that's been there a while. Add to that. the scrutiny that comes with a. high-profile case. And I don't know how. much money this David has, but if he has. a lot of money, then his lawyers can.

exert a lot of pressure and and do what. they can to roll marbles under the feet. of the prosecution in a way that someone. who doesn't have significant resources. simply can't. >> What do you make of Morgan Roth? Why. would they want him to testify? And what. do you make of these alleged comments. that he made uh about being grilled by. the deputy DA on why he didn't contact. police or stop the tour? >> Yeah. I mean, I've been accused of being. a little tough in my examination and. grand jury, I suppose, as well as jury. I'm I'm trying to get to the truth. I've. got I've got a burden. I've got to make.

my burden any way I can legally and. ethically. And so I imagine this deputy. DA wants to know where was David on. certain days when this body could have. been put there. Where was he? Allegedly. he's on tour, but since we don't know. the exact dates, we need more. information. Who was he talking to. immediately before we think this child. died and after? And if you are the. manager of somebody, your source of. income or at least a large source of. your income comes from this artist. And. if this artist is accused of murder and.

eventually convicted of murder, your. source of income is shut off. >> This feels extensive. If we're talking. about a grand jury potentially that's. been impanled for a while, in your. experience, if that's true, and you have. a witness testifying over several days, and let's say certain media reporting is. accurate, that this has been going on, I. don't know, a month, maybe longer. Is. that a sign that this is an. investigative grand jury? helps with. subpoening uh issuing subpoenas of. witnesses and production of documents. and maybe recommending charges versus a.

grand jury whose sole responsibility is. to indict someone or or several people. Do you think this is an investigative. grand jury or a a grand jury that can. indict? >> It's unusual. I've been in a lot of. grand juries over my years and it's. always the same grand jury that hears. the evidence that votes on the. indictment. Certainly any grand juror. who wants who's going to vote on an. indictment must have access to that. information. So it's possible that the. term of the first grand jury is going to.

end before they're going to seek. indictments. Typically then you would. bring in a detective or somebody else. who could summarize the testimony or the. evidence that was gathered before the. original grand jury. But let's recall. grand juries even in big cities like LA. are busy. They have lots of cases to. look at. And we typically don't get the. grand jurors for 40 hours a week for a. long period of time because these are. everyday citizens who are called down to. jury duty. Not the regular jury duty. duty we're all accustomed to, but rather.

grand jury duty and they almost always. have other cases they have to consider. as well. Mhm. Um and that can get. complicated when they're hearing. multiple cases and um you know they have. to consider like okay remember what we. you heard last Thursday as there were. you heard cases in between um but you. remember you don't need a unanimous. decision there you just need a majority. uh to return back an indictment. Okay. What does this say about the timeline. then? Everybody's listening to this and. everybody's wondering is someone going.

to get arrested? Is someone going to get. charged? I know it's really difficult. based on such limited information. Do. you have an idea about the timeline what. we might be looking at? >> Well, we don't have a statute of. limitations problem for murder. That's. something prosecutors always thinking. about statute of limitations because we. can't bring a case if the statute is. run. So, that's not a problem on a. murder case. And you do want to go as. quickly as you can because witnesses. begin forgetting, witnesses begin. moving. You know, maybe they move to. another state, they're less available,

whatever. And so you want to move. quickly, but not so quickly that you. miss something or create a procedural. defect. We saw this with the Alec. Baldwin prosecution in the Rust shooting. in New Mexico. He didn't win that case. because he wasn't guilty. He won that. case because of an alleged procedural. defect in the way the special. prosecutors handled that. So prosecutors. have to think about the procedure. They. have to think about the due process. rights of the people involved and they. have to think about acquiring evidence. before it degrades or witnesses forget.

or leave the jurisdiction. This has been. a kind of a tough job for me because I. don't have a lot of information about. this case. We're we're basing it a lot. on reporting and um sources tell X Y and. Z. I wonder the fact that LAPD is so. tight-lipped on this and that they got. the court to agree to a petition to seal. the ME records. Is that unusual in your. opinion? Judges don't mind sealing.

things if you can give them a basis for. doing it. Either because they're worried. about pre-trial publicity affecting the. jury pool in a way that might taint. their outcome or because they think that. somehow this information is so shocking. or so invasive of someone's privacy that. it ought to be sealed. It's the former. example I gave you that's the much more. common reason. Only occasionally will. you see a privacy interest being. asserted in in a reason for a sealing. All right, let's see what happens next. Keeping a very, very careful eye out in.

LA. Uh Mark Weaver, thank you so much. for taking the time, sir. Appreciate it. >> Thank you, Jesse. >> And that's all we have for you right now. here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so. much for joining us. And as always, [music] please subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you. should get your podcast. You can follow. me on X or Instagram. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time.