Wild Courtroom Brawl Breaks Out Between Killer and Victim's Family

a routine court hearing in New Mexico. erupted into wild chaos when apparently. family members of a murder victim. charged at the accused killer sparking. an allout brawl that left Spectators. stunned security scrambling punches flew. chairs were swung it took a drawn taser. to finally restore order what triggered. this explosive courtroom Clash well I'll. tell you what I'm going to speak with. retired judge Matthew sharino to get his. take on all of this welcome to sidebar. present by law on crime I'm Jesse.

Weber a typical day in court quickly. spiraled into chaos when a brawl erupted. during a hearing out in New Mexico what. should have been a routine legal. proceeding descended into this wild. unpredictable fight between an accused. killer and the reported family members. of a victim that he is charged with. murdering leaving courtroom Spectators. stunned security scrambling to regain. control scene unfolded just before 9:30.

a.m. Mountain Time on January 31st when. two men 40-year-old Carlos Lucero and. 51-year-old Pete yasi allegedly charged. across the courtroom during a hearing. for 21-year-old murder suspect Alexander. saguro Ortiz now the reporting indicates. that lero was there because Ortiz is. accused of killing his niece Aliana. Farin who is Ortiz's ex-girlfriend now. it's interesting with the assassi. because NBC News has reported that this. might have been uh farin's stepfather we.

couldn't independently confirm that but. it appears that he might be a family. member of some sort now Lucero in fact. later told police that the murder charge. against Ortiz was the reason he went. after him that day we will get into that. a little bit more and I want to dive. into what we've seen in this footage. because it's absolutely stunning and. incredible but first I want to bring on. a special guest we have with us retired. New York City judge Matthew sharino. thank you so much for coming on it's. good to see you again likewise good to. see you Jesse now as a former judge what.

is going through your mind when you're. seeing this absolute Mayhem play out. inside the courtroom and we will do a. play- byplay of everything that goes. down but just initial Impressions about. seeing something like this happen in a. courtroom there's two. competing uh things that you have to. deal with as a judge when something like. that happens the security and my court. officers have trained us that the best. thing that we can do when an absolute. melee breaks out is to get out of the.

courtroom so that they don't have to. deal with protecting us and that they're. clear to do what they need to do uh with. the audience and the audience members. that being said the natural reaction of. most of us that that wear black robes. and that sit in the highest seat in the. courtroom is to take charge um so you do. have to uh kind of weigh those and weigh. the situation and I I have unfortunately. had uh these type of situations break. out in in my courtroom uh and and they.

they can happen although I have to say. it's very very very very rare and I'm. always amazed at how wonderful the the. court officers in in New York state. handle those situations can you. elaborate on what happened in your. courtroom by the way was it ever. directed towards you did you ever feel. any kind of. alarm what one time there there was a. person who who made the first initial. steps to kind of Rush the bench a and he. was quickly stopped by my my sergeant.

who literally jumped a table uh to get. in his way and and and to make sure that. there there that he didn't get any. closer than maybe 10 15 feet uh more. often than not it's directed to the. defense attorney uh where where there. have been attacks I there was one. headbutting incident where where a a. defendant literally all of a sudden just. turned towards his lawyer and smashed uh. his head in in into his his lawyer's.

head and then was quickly also taken. down by by by my court officers and so. most of the violence was was at the. person near nearby and that tends to be. the defense attorney unfortunate for. that defense attorney yeah actually I. think we did a whole sidebar on that. once before about attorneys getting. attacked by their clients but let me ask. you this I'm not I I'm actually. surprised that you don't see it more. often in terms of family members uh of. victims of horrific crimes when they.

look at the defendant they don't try to. do this more often I mean I remember I. remember it was a few years ago uh. during what was a a really really big. sentencing hearing it was the Larry. Nassar case when a father of one of the. women girls who was actually um I think. all of his daughters or several of his. daughters were were sexually assaulted. um by Larry Nasser he rushed towards him. it was a huge chaos that erupted into. that courtroom I'm surprised we don't. see this more not saying it should.

happen I'm surprised we don't see it. more where uh the victim's family. members try to attack a the criminal. defendant thank thankfully it does not. happen as much as as people would think. I I've certainly have had the situation. where victims will wear t-shirts that. say remember uh the name of the victim. that they'll hold up pictures of of. victims especially we would see it in. vehicular manslaughter where it was some. kind of drunk driving uh was the initial. uh reason for the the the death of their.

loved one with sexual abuse uh crimes we. would see it as well but by and large. the the victim's families were Beyond. respectful of the court and the decorum. of the court and and kept it to those. kind of Silent protest hey real quick. let me just take a sidebar from sidebar. for a minute to let you guys know about. something so Morgan and Morgan's are. incredible sponsor and partner but they. are also the official Law Firm partner. of the UFC and it makes total sense. right because fighting is in their DNA.

like the UFC fighters who bring their. everything into the Octagon Morgan and. Morgan's a thousand attorneys bring. their everything for their clients in. courtrooms Across America and get this. right now Morgan and Morgan is giving. away two tickets to the Pereira vers. Anala fight in Las Vegas plus $2,000 you. can enter for your chance to win at www. morgancc or at the link in the. description and pinned in the. comments is is is it the responsibility. of the judge to deter who is in that.

courtroom and who's not in that. courtroom in other words if you are. having a criminal defendant enter the. courtroom which they have to do um and. if it's an emotional day let's say it's. a sentencing hearing or let's say um you. know it's a first appearance does the. judge say you know what I'm concerned. about what this person is accused of. doing I'm concerned about having the. family member members there I'm. concerned about how close the family. members will be in the gallery is that. something the judge controls and should. the judge control it we we start with.

the default that it's an 100% open. courtroom and until someone gives a. reason why they should be removed from a. courtroom they have the absolute right. to be in that courtroom if it's going to. be a. particularly um for verdicts and for. sentencing a as a general rule in New. York whenever you're taking a verdict so. whenever you're getting that first. verdict extra officers will come into my. courtroom and if there is a particular. need that we feel because there maybe a.

lot of victims family members there we. will have even more uh right officers in. the courtroom and that show of force. generally is enough to keep it down um. also if there's a lot of people in the. courtroom and you know there's going to. be something generally I would say a few. words you know I I know this is going to. be difficult uh we're going to be doing. this I need you to you know just remain. calm and and and generally if you show. enough control those situations don't.

happen yeah I remember I think it was. the verdict in the Harvey Weinstein case. I was uh in court in New York and there. was more security than I had ever seen. um when that verdict or I think it was. the verdict not the sentence when it. came down it was really something to say. but now I want to go uh into what. happened here and how things got so out. of hand so we have security camera. footage that was obtained by long crime. it captures the dramatic moment as the. courtroom essentially explodes in chaos. we're going to break it down for you.

step by step now to be clear the video. doesn't have sound but you can see all. the chaos unold inide of the beralo. County District Court so Ortiz is in an. orange jumpsuit he's standing next to. his attorney at the podium and if you. look closely at the top left corner of. the screen you're going to see the. moment when everything changes because. that is when Carlos Lucero appears to. leap over the barrier appears to make a. straight beline for Ortiz the officer. standing behind Ortiz tries to stop him. but it's too late Lucero Ortiz they.

Collide you could allege that you could. basically say it appears that Lucero. seems to tackle Ortiz sends both of the. men crashing down to the floor in a heap. and just as things seem to be settling. it appears that here comes Pete yassi. allegely bursting through the barrier in. a white shirt jumping right into the mix. things just keep escalating from there. you have a third person who enters the. fry that's apparently Ortiz's father. dressed in all black walking up to the. brawl immediately throwing punches or.

appears to be and meanwhile you have. horrified family members in the gallery. rushing to try and break things up no. use the fight only intensifies I'll tell. you what you see on tape one woman what. appears to be grabbing a folding chair. starts swinging it at the direction of. both Ortiz and the officer trying to. Shield him and to make things even. crazier you can just spot the other. inmates in the courtroom who are there. for their own hearings just watching. this madness unfold and then finally an.

officer pulls out what appears to be a. taser in an attempt to regain control of. the situation but before things can calm. down it appears that Ortiz's father. allegedly delivers a final blow kicking. aie right in the face the moment the. weapon comes out everyone backs off. officers rushing to handcuff Ortiz. yassie and Lucero leading them out of. the courtroom and in the aftermath you. can see yassie and lucera wiping their. faces with tissues probably from. injuries that sustain they sustained. during the allw and once things settle.

down the remaining inmates are escorted. out of the courtroom and that's how the. hearing ends barely you know even. getting started so Matthew your reaction. to watching that. unfold my my my reaction is is. initially there did not seem to be. enough other officers coming in to. assist um in in in the New York State. courtrooms we have a mechanism where. basically it's it's there are. strategically located buttons within the.

courtroom that if are pressed um you. will see literally 10 15 20 officers. from all of the surrounding courtrooms. come into the courtroom that that has. the emergency to assist in making sure a. that the courtroom is cleared that. there's kind of buffer set up so that. other people can't be injured uh a and. and and firm control of that courtroom. is. taken to me it did not seem that the the.

the court officers or the. BFFs in in Albuquerque had enough of a. presence to stop everything from. happening and I I think they were very. shocked and and did not initially get. over that shock until even more came and. then it escalated and it escalated above. that so you know with with with I think. not that violence doesn't happen there. there was an incident in last week in in.

in in New York City uh Supreme Court. where there was a knifing in the hallway. and and and there are a there has been a. rise especially with with young people. and gangs of violence in the hallway as. competing gangs are waiting for their. respective cases to be called and there. have been more and more and more. incidents in the hallways of the. courtrooms in New York resulting in many. officers being being hurt and then you. have a shortage of officers which we've.

been facing for a very very long time. and and when other officers go out. because of line of injury there's even. more of a shortage so the hallways have. become very very dangerous in both the. family courts a and the New York state. courts but but I think it's that. overwhelming presence of officers that. needs to come into wherever there's that. kind of situation to take control and. that didn't seem to happen in the video. that I saw and it's alarming for. multiple reasons right you want officers. to come in to stop the cast stop the. violence make sure nobody gets hurt but.

one of the people could actually grab a. weapon off the officer and then you're. dealing with a whole different kind of. situation and talking about that in the. video in your opinion was the use or the. potential use of that taser by the. officer that was a reasonable response. to the situation um what other kind of. ways could you respond would it be. taking out a firearm of some kind uh. what are ways to deescalate that I mean. what was your take on that part yeah. generally Firearms take rers uh and.

Firearms are our last resort uh and you. don't want it to escalate to to that. point um there are batons and and and. and the along the batons that kind of. elongate that can be brought out for. such a situation to kind of uh you know. move everyone away from the area um. luckily I have never had the situation. where firearms in in in any of my. courtrooms had to be uh threatened to be. used used uh or or unholstered as a.

general rule the the officers that are. handling the prisoners uh and that that. are brought into the courtroom are they. won't have guns because you don't want. the defendant to be able to take those. guns from the officers but the other. officers in the courtroom generally do. have firearms luckily none of those ever. had to be used in my courtroom a taser I. I can I can definitely see uh being used. as you know that next escalation point.

because it's generally something that. someone who's unskilled won't be able to. use uh anyway and it's it's it's. generally only going to be used to kind. of diffuse the situation and to and to. and to kind. of end that particular person's ability. to uh escalate even more to make the. situation worse let me ask you this. where you have something like this. happening it's caught on video broadcast. wide L how would the judge how should a.

judge approach public commentary on this. and the Press inquiries regarding this. incident what do they say after. something like this as a general rule. that judge is now a witness and that's. one of the reasons why we're told to. leave the bench as soon as possible uh. you're now a witness to all of the. events that happened in the subsequent. proceedings um so you don't want to. comment at all with regards to to same. now the videos I know uh are used. and whenever these kind of situations.

happen the the the the court officers. and and and the security uh teams that. that deal with security in cour houses. throughout the country they all watch. other's videos when these kind of things. happen as an example of listen you know. be wary of this kind of thing happening. uh so that you're better able to handle. it so let me just lay out what happened. here in the end so you have Lucero and. yasi they were both arrested at the. scene both men were charged with battery. on a p officer and assault on a jail.

respectively and despite the severity of. those charges they were both released on. their own recognizance meaning they. don't have to post bail but they're. going to have to return for future Court. appearances lucera though didn't come. away from the fight unscathed if you. look at his mugshot chose a swollen. black and blue ey scratches on his face. likely a result of the chaotic. altercation and yasi kind of looks. untouched in the booking photo both men. along with Ortiz's father were taken to. a hospital hospital for treatment but. Ortiz's father he wasn't charged in this.

incident and this is despite allegedly. getting involved in the scuffle and even. kicking yassie I was surprised by that. Matthew that Ortiz's father was in. charge why do you think that is I think. I like why is I'm surprised because. initially you're going to almost charge. everyone and and a lot of those cases I. think are going to go away um I can. almost guarantee that there'll be a. civil lawsuit between uh the defendant a. a and the family that the victim's. family uh if for nothing else it it'll.

be something for him to do if he's. convicted and a a day out of uh of jail. to to deal with the civil lawsuit but. there'll be civil lawsuits against the. state for not protecting him. sufficiently there'll be um civil law. suits against Albuquerque uh as well for. not protecting him uh but I I I think. because the father was the third person. kind of into the meley and seemed to be. trying to defend uh his son I I think.

the prosecutors felt that uh there was. really not a case there because it was. it was more of a a clear defensive. person type of case and and I have a. feeling that the cas is uh even e even. the most because clearly you know he was. he was injured but it will still be a. very hard case for a prosecutor to be. able to get a jury that's. unsympathetic uh towards the victim's. family so while I don't see the cases.

necessarily going away instantaneously. it it might at a grand jury proceeding. uh but I I do down the road have a. feeling that you know after the the. trial of the defendant is done and and. depending if he's convicted or acquitted. then a decision will be made whether to. pursue the case against the the victim's. family that jumped the rail so here's. the question right what happened who. provoked this right well it likely. wasn't just some random Outburst because.

Carlos Lucero reportedly told deputies. he killed my niece like a coward it was. worth every moment now Matthew couple. things here does this even go to trial. with these charges that these men are. facing it's caught on tape there's a lot. of witnesses I don't know what the. defense is or is there some sort of. legal defense like you can understand. the emotion of this I understand it. doesn't mean he should do it but I can. understand is that work to a defense. he's not deny that he did it um right.

but it makes you wonder where does this. case go with them um and do they have. any sort of justification whatsoever for. what happened here yeah I I think. clearly you know this wasn't it did not. appear to be a Spur the- moment type of. decision so I'm going to think that the. the victim's family kind of. knew what he was doing when when he when. he did the attack and had planned to do. something along those lines I don't. necessarily see um this going to to.

trial it would be either in my mind a a. a plea at most. probation um and and and more than. likely after the defendants trial if. he's acquitted or if he's uh convicted. um I you really don't have a defense but. but it still will be a a one of those. type of cases where I'm a defense. attorney I'm basically aru arguing for.

some kind of jury nullification uh and. and although that's something that uh. you know courts won't necessarily. recognize it is something that would. happen in this type of case I think now. let me just lay out a little bit more. about Ortiz and all this so as we. mentioned earlier Lucero was there. because of his niece Aliana farfan and. she was allegedly murdered by Ortiz in. January of 2024 according to a criminal. complaint Ortiz gunned down Aliana. inside her apartment on January 11th. 2024 that's the allegation and after the.

shooting Ortiz reportedly fled through. her bedroom window wearing a ski mask. and a black hoodie the officer describes. in the criminal complaint hearing the. recording of a 911 phone call that was. made where a woman can be heard saying. he killed her his name he goes by Draco. he just came inside and ran he shot my. cousin please come by please now police. learned that Draco was apparently a. nickname for Alexander Ortiz and when. officers arrived on scene they find this. broken window in the bedroom they saw.

Aliana lying face up live ammunition was. also discovered along with what appeared. to be a bloody handprint aliana's cousin. who was staying with her at the time. heard or allegedly heard Ortiz and. Aliana arguing the dispute reportedly. centered around a test that Ortiz had. taken at a health clinic he then heard a. gunshot went into aliana's room noticing. the bedroom window was open and Ortiz. was nowhere to be found a friend of. aliana's cousin told police that she. heard the gunshot saw Aliana inside the. bedroom bleeding from her nose and eyes.

and investigators believe that Ortiz had. this abusive relationship with Aliana. and that he was angry with her the day. that he allegedly killed her according. to a City of Albuquerque news release. Aliana allowed friends to stay with her. in the apartment because she feared. being alone a neighbor of alanas told. police that on the day of the incident. he heard a man yelling a woman screaming. for help saying that the man was. threatening to choker he also told. police that the apartment's management. company had to replace the windows of. aliana's apartment three to four times. now an arrest warrant was served and.

Ortiz was charged with the murder of. Aliana faren on January 27th 2024 but. this doesn't end there why because. detectives still hadn't located Ortiz. after he allegedly took off from the. apartment and they wouldn't find him for. almost another month but while police. were searching for him detectives. identified him as a suspect in the. murder of another woman Nicole Maldonado. who was killed at a grocery store on. January 17th so that's almost a week. after aliana's murder police were able. to review surveillance footage which.

reportedly showed Ortiz firing shots. into a car outside the store according. to reporting from kob4 Nicole was in the. backseat of that car and later died from. her injuries the city of alberquerque. reported that police finally located. Ortiz on February 21st 2024 H up in a. residence near the grocery store after. barricading Ortiz inside the residence. police were able to take him into. custody but at the time of his arrest he. was only facing the murder charge for. Alana's death while police were still.

investigating the supermarket shooting. and when detectives searched the. residents they apparently found parts of. a 40 caliber handgun an extended. magazine a 50 round drum magazine Glock. ammunition these parts were later linked. to the shooting outside the grocery. store so in addition to the murder. charge that he's facing for aliana's. death he is now facing a laundry list of. charges in connection with Nicole's. death murder attempted murder conspiracy. to commit murder aggravated assault with. a deadly weapon tampering with EV. Matthew those are two big criminal cases.

and charges against him just your. overall thoughts on what he's facing. right now as we uh put a bow on this. case yeah I I don't see him seeing the. light of day in Albuquerque um for. for ever in in all honesty with with the. um the justice system out in in in that. area of the world so I I I think he he. probably will be in prison for the rest. of his life Assuming he's convicted on. both of these matters which is why I say.

I think he'll be suing uh civil uh. Albuquerque and and and the others. because this will be his you know days. out of the uh jail system in order to. participate in his civil uh cases well. look you know he is presumed innocent. and right now in the courtroom episode. he's actually a victim of what happened. so he he is and and and and and another. reason why I don't think that there will. necessarily be a a case against the.

victim's father that stands up because. as a a victim he's not going to be the. greatest witness uh that that has taken. the stand yeah and look uh these are. very serious charges they appear to have. a lot of evidence against him right now. um but we'll see where that case. progresses as well but following the. courtroom brawl I'll tell you this. Ortiz's rescheduled hearing is now set. for Friday and hopefully nothing like we. just saw will happen again be guaranteed. that there'll be a lot more office in. that courtroom oh I I imagine so I.

imagine so uh Matthew Sharina thank you. so much for coming on appreciate you. taking the time thank you Jesse and. that's all we have for you right now. here on sidebar everybody thank you so. much for joining us and as always please. subscribe on YouTube Apple podcast. Spotify wherever you should get your. podcast I'm Jesse Weber I'll speak to. you next time. [Music].