Who Did Hollywood Side With During Depp v. Heard? (Sidebar Podcast EP. 35)

last time that it got crazy between us i. really did think i was gonna lose my. life and i thought you would do it on. accident. and i told you that. i said oh my god i thought the first. time amber i lost a fucking. finger man come on. tell the world johnny tell them johnny.

depp i joined that man i am a victim of. domestic violence. you know it's verified it seems how many. people believe or side of you. it doesn't matter if it's verified. welcome to sidebar everybody presented. by law and crime this is where we recap. the biggest moments in the day's biggest. cases i'm jesse weber we're talking. about johnny depp amber herg you know. this was the trial this was the. celebrity trial unlike i think anything.

we've ever seen there are so many. different aspects of it we talk the law. we talk the money but the celebrity the. social the cultural impact of this trial. is absolutely huge you know one of the. most interesting things to think about. is who was supporting who during the. course of this case and i don't mean. outside the courtroom i mean i was in. fairfax county virginia it was a. majority of johnny depp supporters out. there a few sprinklings of amber heard. supporters but what about hollywood what. about which celebrities were actually.

supporting johnny depp and amber heard. which is tough because it's a tough. strange case do you support johnny depp. who was accused of physical and sexual. abuse do you support amber heard was. accused of lying about him and clearly. the jury believed that i mean in the end. depp won on each of his claims the jury. found every one of her statements in the. washington post article were defamatory. about depp. that she wasn't a victim that he wasn't. that he wasn't an abuser and now i know. she won with respect to one counterclaim.

but. let's be honest here all right this was. a total win for johnny depp in the eyes. of the jury in the eyes of the court of. law. but let's talk a little bit more about. the celebrity aspect of it there's so. many different cultural underpinnings. here so. who can help talk to me about this. better. than leia it'll be who is the. entertainment reporter for media. mediaite is our sister network our. sister company uh all under the umbrella. of our founder dan abrams leia thanks.

for coming on thanks for having me i'm. excited to be here we're excited to have. you so i mean i want to ask you this was. actually when we were talking about how. we're going to have you on one of the. interesting questions and i never even. thought about it i didn't look at it. this much is who in hollywood was. supporting who during the course of the. trial maybe after it so during the. course of the trial before we knew the. verdict let's start with johnny depp who. was supporting him. well i think. um. a lot of the important support that deb. was getting was from his exes from kate. moss vanessa parody winona ryder they.

all said you know he's never acted. violently towards me kate moss even. testified. um. depp was getting support from other big. names like chris rock chris rock said. believe all women except amber heard he. tweet he said that he tweeted that i. think he may have said it live or maybe. during a show or something but. and then of course like joe rogan was. supporting depp well notably i think. howard stern was pro amber well i don't. know if he was pro heard but definitely. not pro depp called him a narcissist at. one point said like he's over acting on.

the stand by the way do you think. from a pr perspective and likelihood. perspective do you think johnny depp. would go sit with joe rogan. um i mean yeah maybe i feel like. a lot of people are painting him as this. like anti-metoo movement right victor. and you know joe rogan himself is like. someone that continuously. wins these cancel. battles and all these attempts to cancel. him and i don't know i can kind of see.

the connection there that deb would be. interested in doing an interview with. someone kind of similar in that way who. else was supporting johnny depp um. basically everyone yeah i mean was it. majority of people hi we're supporting. deb um from what i saw yeah i think was. really clear. when they released their post-verdict. statements. i think it's like more than 80 stars big. name stars liked johnny depp's statement. while like four or five liked amber. heard and one of them was jason momoa. who liked both but didn't he delete it i. read that he deleted it he liked both. and then deleted it.

he may have deleted it you see i think. that. his like was more of a. supporting that it's over right. good job both of both of you like i. don't think he was really trying to. voice any opinion. um that was another trend i noticed like. even megan mccain at one point was like. the metoo movement is over something a. lot of general like. this trial just. was horrible takes. not one side or the other kind of thing. but i say generally speaking.

depp has the majority of the support by. far before we go into the people who. have been supporting amber heard do you. think it changed during the course of. the trial like or did you see it hey you. know at the very beginning of this we're. supporting johnny depp we kept the. support throughout or as things were. coming out during the course of the. trial people were learning more about it. they switched their opinion said. i'm sticking with johnny on this well i. think that. um i'm not sure i didn't notice that so. many people kind of switched. their positions if they had already made.

positions but there were some people. that were silent throughout and then now. i've started to like. pro herd statements like ed ed norton he. hasn't said anything about the trial but. he liked a post. um i can't remember which article was. post i think either york the new yorker. one calling the verdict chilling or. maybe the new york times one but the uh. the post said. it's on men to you know. recognize what really happened here and. i think him liking that was kind of a.

men for amber heard a statement in some. way but he had remained silent. throughout the trial so. yeah i don't know if his position. switched but definitely. some more amber heard support is. trickling in like from who else besides. edward norton um i think that one of her. more vocal supporters is. julia fox she was in uncut gems and then. no no no no she wasn't no she was jams. i hope that makes the cut. [Laughter].

julia what do you think about the. verdict yeah maybe i don't know kinda. kinda well when i was a muse and uncut. gems. well she um she was pretty vocal in her. support throughout i mean she got a lot. of backlash she commented on instagram. saying this whole idea of mutual abuse. is not real like there was a power. imbalance. um. johnny depp was twice amber heard's age. and basically she said even if she even. have heard hit death it's not mutual.

abuse and. she got a lot of hate but that's. actually something that activists have. been saying for a long time me too. activists all. a lot of you know gender focused. activists are. that's not that's not news that the idea. that mutual abuse that there's a primary. aggressor. um so it is it is interesting that her. that julia fox saying that i mean i. think it's just that effort the internet. was so intensely pro-depth that any. any form of pro herd commentary or.

anti-depth commentary basically like she. can hit death and it's okay was the. statement and that did not go well but. did you see that there were witnesses. who testified on behalf of amber heard. who were getting a ton of hate right now. i mean i just saw the other day that one. of the psychiatrists uh who was kind of. controversial i mean he provided kind of. weird odd testimony. he's been getting hated he actually. wrote an article in newsmax. news week about it um have you seen that. that the people who testified are.

getting you know killed on social media. and all this definitely i think a lot of. her friends are also getting a lot of. hate online i know there was that um. reporter eve barlow yes she didn't. testify but she got kicked out of the. court exactly so she's also getting a. lot of hate on twitter i've noticed i. think it's. i wonder if that's part of the reason. that herd isn't getting as much support. as you would expect from. someone who's alleging domestic abuse in. a post-metoo world. um i think maybe on some level people.

are seeing her get completely just. wrecked online and kind of don't want to. touch it or go near it i don't know. do you think that this is going to have. a chilling effect like edward norton. said i mean in the sense that. you know. when the past few years you've had. people bring accusations against. high-profile individuals predominantly. men. and do you think that this trial is. going to have. that kind of effect. well. another person that supported heard is.

mia farrow yeah um and i think it will. be interest i'm not sure but i think. it'll be interesting to see how this. plays out in the long run in terms of. will this become a moment that we look. back on and think oh this is a woman we. failed because you know that happened. with britney spears it happened with mia. pharaoh it happened with. meghan markle janet jackson pamela. anderson so many and they're all coming. to like kind of right now at the same. time monica lewinsky all these projects. highlighting how we failed these women. i kind of wonder you know it fast.

forward 20 years are they going to make. an hbo special on how we as a society. failed amber heard it's not gonna be 20. years. 20 months right 20 days. no i the reason i ask is because i asked. this question on the long crime network. and what i've been receiving in response. from our experts is that. you can't treat this case. so much like other ones because amber. heard was in a position unlike anybody. else and she did things that the jury. didn't like that you know she was.

recording johnny depp that there were. questions about her bruises there were. questions about you know in the audio. tapes of the way she was speaking to him. the fact that she admitted to hitting. him and i don't know i mean what's your. take on it because you also have the. other side where people are like like. julia fox's there's no such thing as. mutual abuse but is that too simplistic. i think it's i think if anything it just. complicated the conversation in this. case. um yeah i think. i think i something i keep hearing is. that she wasn't the perfect victim i've.

read that a lot of times i mean. and i agree. it's hard to grapple with two people. that are alleging abuse one is a man one. is a woman do you just believe the woman. it's definitely more nuanced than a lot. of the me too things that came up you. know harvey weinstein bill cosby kind of. countless victims. a lot of testimonies. a lot of evidence and with depp it's. kind of a he said she said on one side. but also. she did have a lot more i'm not a lawyer.

you're the lawyer here but i think that. i don't just play one of you. from what i've noticed in these type of. trials or me too accusations she seemed. to have a lot more evidence than anybody. else right i mean because there's so. many times that you say and i actually. thought this was a really compelling. argument on on her attorney's behalf of. saying. you know. you're judging her on what she didn't do. or you're judging her what she did do. and i was thinking and i made the point. earlier today on the network is that you. know she came forward with photographs.

she came forward with a video of him. smashing cabinets yeah it might not have. been attacking her but it was him. arguably being violent bruises on her. face corroborating testimony including. from her makeup artist i thought i've. said. this is a stronger case and i actually. didn't think that johnny depp legally. was going to win um i just thought. defamation cases were really tough to. prove i also thought his team did an. incredible job. so i wasn't surprised by the verdict but. i also was surprised because i thought. she put up a pretty strong case with. what she had. i agree i mean.

i think. what one of her attorneys even at one. point said what's the message you're. sending that. oh if you do have pictures of your. bruises oh they're not real but if you. don't have pictures of your bruises why. didn't you take any or if you did tell. your friends oh you're lying if you. didn't tell your friends. or whatever yeah. it's just kind of. it is a. i mean. i have also read from a lot of survivors. and activists saying how this will. affect domestic abuse allegations moving.

forward are people going to be too. scared to come forward. i i don't know but i do see this trend. of. men that have been accused of abuse. suing for defamation that's he's not the. first to do that he's not the first high. profile person to do that but i guess it. might increase now yeah now with all the. since it was so televised and it was. kind of everywhere you couldn't really. escape it. maybe he'll. yeah inspire others to do the same well. let's talk about that so what let's.

start with her i really think that there. is an incredible uphill battle for her. to get her career back i mean first of. all let's start with do you think. there's a is there are there groups in. favor of amber are there groups that. have you've seen who said hey we're. going to help you pay the money monetary. judgement i mean she owes. 10 million. 350 000. has anybody said hey i'll help stake it. for you amber or we're going to raise. money for you have you seen any kind of. support like that well. um i'm not sure about financial support.

but she has gotten support from some. groups um. reign she got a statement out of ra i. don't it wasn't necessarily so pro-heard. but it was. lamenting how this will affect domestic. abuse survivors in the future and then. women in film released a statement. saying they were disappointed by the. verdict and. i think a couple other. groups did but. not. um. i don't know not enough i think that. people are really aware of it but the. fact that women in film is one of those.

groups that took her side. i don't think she's gonna be in any. movies anytime soon you don't think so i. don't think that it's gonna happen. not anytime soon and i don't think she's. going to be in the next like big. blockbuster but if an indie. female. or. director you know who prioritizes. casting women. sees believes her and thinks like this. is our comeback story i could see that. happening i read that it was up to five.

million signatures to get her kicked off. of aquaman two where is that at and i. also read this report that has she. officially been kicked off akhman too or. is that just a rumor i i've last time i. checked it was just a rumor um but that. is a rumor that she's out somebody. somebody posted a text message exchange. an alleged text message exchange on. twitter basically saying they had a. meeting and she's all her scenes have. been cut. but that hasn't been confirmed so i'm. not sure but the fact that people. i wouldn't be surprised i mean johnny.

depp is no longer in the harry potter. fantastic beasts fantastic beasts so. he's no longer in fantastic beasts. because he lost. his um the uk sound guilty in the uk. right so on that note would they do. something similar remove amber heard. from her own franchise because she lost. i mean it kind of seems like that would. be fair considering. that was the precedent before but i'm. not sure how though well what's gonna. happen with him now see i always have. the opinion imagine the virta comes down. on a wednesday let's say he had a movie.

coming out friday night i mean. it would have been huge. definitely do you think he's gonna be. pirate six um. if it ever ends up happening and they. don't go with marco robbie i mean. honestly i think they should go with. margot robbie personally i think that. i mean she gets numbers too she people. love her movies people love to see her. but. i the thing about dep i think that his. career is probably not as tarnished as. amber heard's i think definitely not but.

this was still a kind of a circus like. it was a bit. you did see him. slamming these cabinets you read these. texts that he sent his friends that were. really hard to read and. maybe he'll career his career will. bounce back but i wonder if executives. just. won't want the headache won't want to. pay what i'm guessing would be a huge. salary for depp um. i kind of like don't necessarily want. somebody that has all this baggage. representing a more serious character a.

more serious film. i kind of see him doing more. maybe some smaller roles. at first or like. um. i think that. or maybe. directors that aren't necessarily. as well known he did do a couple movies. post herds allegation and they they were. not great but i'm sure he made a lot of. money so i kind of see that continuing. but not what he was making. and here's the thing though have you. heard anything about it in the sense.

like. because i i'm i don't know how how. i also think people have short attention. spans and mind frames so i think people. are going to more remember the fact that. she lost this case versus oh you. remember that audio recording of him. saying x y and z and i think that that. is going to be a problem for her and. something beneficial for him have you. heard anybody in hollywood say i can't. wait i'm going to call johnny depp up. for the next movie or he's in talks now. he's in negotiate because i shall tell. you this camille vasquez who represents. uh johnny depp she's now getting offers.

i heard to be you know in. big law firms across the country. hollywood law firms because of her. performance so i do you anticipate that. we're going to see that in the coming. weeks about maybe big deals that he's. striking. um in the coming weeks no i think that. there's going to be a longer period of. time where. people are kind of just going to want it. hands off of the whole deaf herd. situation take a break maybe a lot of. depth on a lot of screens lately but. um i think eventually yes i think you're.

right that people's memory they have. short-term memory and. he'll. he's. bounced back from allegations before. he's never also been this perfect guy. he's had other suits i think. other accusations of violence and. people have said you know he does have. these issues with substances i don't. think that's. a secret. but um. so even that it's like do you do these. executives want to even add this whole.

other layer i think that there is a side. of him that. is hard to work with i think that was i. know he won but i do think that that was. kind of made clear that through some. text you know the text he sent to patty. smith that he's been struggling. there is some evidence that he was. struggling with substance abuse so i. have a question for you anybody that was. brought up during the course of the. trial have they talked about like for. example paul bettany became a big topic. you know johnny depp said he did drugs. with him he was sending him bad messages.

about amber heard did paul bettany say. anything about this or anybody give paul. bettany a heat for anything that. happened um paul bettany did say that he. was embarrassed that the texts had come. out but. um. i don't think he's really getting i mean. he's a marvel character yeah he had like. a massive show. come out pretty recently that did really. well on division and. yeah he's like an avenger and no one's. really giving him any yeah. and i think they just kind of don't. want to i think paul bettany.

he's not not nowhere near as big as depp. but he does have a similar. cult following him the movies he does a. knight's tale marvel movies these are. movies that kind of have cult followings. people love them. they're going to just like stick with. their guy i think yeah yeah so overall. when you look back on this case i mean. for me i think one of the other big. shocking things was. it was just incredible to kind of get. like reveal the curtain and see the. celebrity lifestyles i think a lot of. people took that as well.

the vacations the homes the assistants. the bodyguards but also really real. problems that would happen in a lot of. different relationships domestic. violence sexual violence you know these. were the allegations that were thrown. out uh alcohol abuse drug abuse what. surprised you most from the trial. looking at it i mean. just looking back on it. um. well. to your point about the whole celebrity. lifestyle versus the normal this is also. you know a regular occurrence in a.

marriage. i. i do think on some level this will hurt. hollywood in the sense that there is. this right wing talking point that. hollywood is just. completely out of touch there are these. celebrities that spend a lot of money on. for no reason whatever they're nothing. like us they're at the coastal elite i. think this trial kind of proved that in. some way i mean their fights were. all around the world right. one where there's. like 10 penthouses that they're fighting.

in you know penthouse eight penthouse. five it's kind of a ridiculous. notion that you would have so many. penthouses. but um what i guess surprised me i think. was the verb i was most surprised by the. verdict i. only because she lost every count and. they determined malicious intent. i honestly was. surprised but at the same time. i do think that there's no way. you. leave a courtroom see these herds of.

people for johnny depp and go. you can't really go online without. seeing. the whole deaf pro-dep um. movement and. i wonder if yeah i wonder if herd had a. point in saying. i was completely disparaged after i came. forward. i mean. it's ironic you saw it happening in real. time and then this jury determines that. she's guilty on all counts and does it. have to do with this hate she was.

getting at the same time i don't know. it's it's funny you should say that i. mentioned that point that ironically the. reason she wrote the washington post op. ed the reason she says is to point out. the fact of what happened to her after. she came out publicly against an a-list. star and look what happened to her. during the course of the trial now i. will say the jury came back you have to. respect their verdict you have to. respect the evidence that they they. sided with and um ultimately their. decision it's funny because you know. amber heard's attorneys are making the. mediator elaine brederhoff is making the. media tour and basically saying how. could these jurors not have been.

influenced like you said problem is. she's gonna have to show that you know. she's gonna have to show that they were. influenced that uh somehow that affected. them it's easier said than done but then. again policemen are trying. they know who johnny depp is they. probably didn't know who amber heard was. they. probably loved pirates of the caribbean. as much as everyone else did. i we were talking about this when i. interviewed you and you mentioned you. they didn't know amber heard so this. revelation that she did hit johnny depp. was kind of new also yeah which may have. also.

continued to spark the hate towards her. this they kind of already came to terms. with allegations against step and then. these new allegations against herd came. to light one quick question before i let. you go is the the there was a big talk. during the course of the trial is how. much the washington post article hurt. his career versus bad movies he did the. drug problems showing up late and then. her how much did the statements from him. and his attorney adam waldman which made. up the counter claims how much did that. hurt her career and create a whole. negative backlash online and you know.

people hated her even before the trial. started what's your take on that i mean. how much do you think the actions of. amber heard or the actions of johnny. depp really. hurt both of them. um. i think. i think for sure the washington post. article hurt depp yep but. i think it's also right to say that his. movies. were. declining his skills i mean i don't know. about his skills but the type of movies.

that he was doing weren't as good and. you weren't seeing him as much and then. he scored this a couple big blockbusters. and um. but. it was probably a combination if there. were hollywood insiders that testified. saying he did show up. drunk he forgot lines whatever. but i feel like that's probably the case. with a lot of actors um and they. continue to have careers. bruce willis. is kind of an example of that that he. has a medical issue that's. that kind of should be prohibiting him.

from doing movies or it should have yet. he was still churning out all these. movies not i mean they were not straight. yeah exactly but. that was out of his work that was out of. his control. yeah totally out of his control but i. just mean if he was able to do it with a. true medical condition and then i mean i. think dep. i don't think he would have. stopped doing movies completely if the. the post article hadn't come out in. terms of hurt heard um.

yeah maybe the daily mail article hurt. her. and definitely defamed her but. i think a large i think most of the. defamation was coming from people online. i actually was surprised that. time's up. the hollywood movement. for workplace harassment focuses on. workplace harassment. they didn't say anything well she first. was being represented by one of their. attorneys roberta kaplan but then she. stepped out she withdrew and after she. withdrew she was she resigned from times.

up because of connections to andrew. cuomo and that whole mess but. aside from that and her initial. statement which was that she believes. heard time's up didn't really say. anything throughout the trial she still. er waldman was still found guilty of. defaming somebody who alleged abuse i. think regardless of her guilty verdict. it was surprising to me that liable man. yeah yeah sorry it's the lawyer in me no. no fair enough. but yeah regardless of that she.

nobody said anything about. the fact that. she proved defamation on some level and. she alleged abuse and was defamed and. you would think time's up would have. something to say about that. that anybody who comes forward doesn't. deserve this complete wave of like. destruction well unlike the movies. sometimes real life just doesn't. there's too much gray it's not black and. white it's just there's too much it's a. really complicated case it's not an easy. case and people have strong opinions on. it either way and i'm sure people are.

gonna have strong opinions on it. as time goes on and we all reflect on it. um so we'll say we'll see what happens. it'll be entertainment reporter for. mediaite thanks for coming on appreciate. it thank you all right everybody so if. you want to continue to support us here. at sidebar please make sure to subscribe. on apple podcast spotify youtube. wherever you get your podcast i'm jesse. weber speak to you next time. [Music].