The Dark Secrets of Ed Gein Netflix Didn’t Show

Netflix just dropped Monster, the Ed. Gein story. It's the latest series from. Ryan Murphy about the real-life killer. who inspired Psycho and The Texas. Chainsaw Massacre. Here's the question. How much of it is true though? How much. of it is Hollywood horror? We're going. to talk with an expert who has written. the book on Ed Gein, literally, to. separate fact from fiction. Let's talk. about it right now. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law & Crime. Let's get to. work.

So, Netflix has dropped another. bingeable series, Monster: The Ed Gein. Story. It is the third chapter in Ryan. Murphy and Ian Brennan's true crime. anthology that previously reimagined. Jeffrey Dahmer and the Menendez. brothers. The series was already a hit. This one is now a hit, too. Because this. time the series turns the gaze towards. one of America's most disturbing. real-life figures, Ed Gein, the quiet. Wisconsin farmer whose crimes in the. 1950s. redefined horror forever. Now, here's.

the trailer for the series, which, if. you don't know, is number one on Netflix. chart right here in the United States. So, who is Ed Gein? Ed Gein is the man. who inspired Psycho's Norman Bates, The. Texas Chainsaw Massacre's Leatherface, The Silence of the Lambs Buffalo Bill. But how much of what Netflix shows is. real? How accurate is it? And how much. is pure Hollywood Hollywood nightmare. fuel? We're going to get into that.

We're going to get into that with an. expert, a true crime author who has. written books about this guy, okay? But. first, let me back up a little bit, rewind. Let's talk about it. Let's go to. Plainfield, Wisconsin. Now, I want you to picture a lonely farm. on the outskirts of a small frozen. Midwestern town in the late 1940s. The. neighbors know Ed Gein as this quiet, polite handyman. Maybe a little odd. Sometimes baby sits for local families. But behind that mild-mannered exterior.

was a man spiraling into madness. Ed Gein was born in August of 1906 to. George and Augusta Gein, a pair of. deeply religious parents who raised Ed. and his brother Henry under their. mother's iron rule. This is according to. a 1957 article in Time Magazine. Augusta. was a devout, fanatical woman who taught. her boys that women were sinful, in. particular telling them that something. similar to the Bible's Noah's Ark, that. that story would happen again to punish.

them for being immoral. She isolated. Gein from the outside world, punished. him for trying to make friends, and. filled his head with fire and brimstone. ideas about sin and sex and damnation. Experts believe that Ed Gein essentially. worshipped her and became obsessed with. her. Now, George, Ed's father, was an. alcoholic who died in 1940. And 4 years. later, Ed Gein's brother Henry died in a. fire under what was determined to be.

suspicious circumstances, though it was. officially ruled an accident. Investigators could never prove if Ed. Gein was involved, and he never. confessed. By the way, you know why. we're able to bring you stories like. this? It's not only because of the. amazing support that we get from all of. you out there, but also from our. incredible sponsor Morgan & Morgan, America's largest injury law firm, a. firm with over a thousand attorneys. You. know why they're so big? Because they. win all the time. They have recovered. over 25 billion dollars for more than. 500,000 clients in the past few months.

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can start a claim from your phone in. just eight clicks. So, if you're. injured, you can easily start a claim at. forthepeople.com/lcsidbar. by clicking the link below or scanning. the QR code on screen. And so, Gein was living alone with his. mother until her death in 1945 after two. strokes, leaving him devastated. Locals. said he sealed off her bedroom, turned. it into a shrine. And this is when. things started getting really dark. According to reporting from A&E, he.

began reading pulp horror magazines and. anatomy books and information about Nazi. medical experiments involving things as. absolutely horrific as using human skin. to make lampshades. Then, in the early. 1950s, women in this area, women around. Plainfield, started disappearing. The. horror unraveled on November 16th, 1957. when Bernice Worden, a local hardware. store owner, went missing. Police found. a receipt connected to Ed Gein in her.

store and blood on the floor. When they. arrived at his farmhouse, what they. found still defies belief. Inside, the horrors were unending. Organs in jars, human skulls used as. bowls, masks made of female faces, a. lampshade made from human skin, a corset. fashioned from a woman's torso. And in a. shed, they discovered Bernice's.

decapitated, mutilated body hanging upside down like. a deer carcass. Now, here's the thing. Ed Gein confessed not only to killing. Bernice, but another woman, tavern owner. Mary Hogan, who had vanished 3 years. earlier. But most of the body parts in. his home, they came from the graves that he. apparently robbed, women who he. reportedly said reminded him of his. mother. He admitted to exhuming at least. nine graves, cutting out useful parts to.

make furniture and wearable items. Investigators verified many of those. details by reopening graves and finding. them disturbed and things missing. According to USA Today, Ed Gein was. later found mentally unfit to stand. trial. He spent the rest of his life in. psychiatric care. He was never really. prosecuted for the other crimes that he. admitted to. He spent the rest of his. life in psychiatric care until his death. in 1984 at the age of 77. Okay, now. let's go back to Netflix, right? Netflix. is Monster: The Ed Gein Story. It stars.

Charlie Hunnam as Ed Gein. It's produced. by Ryan Murphy and Ian Brennan. This. eight-episode series released on October. 3rd. It blends biography with horror. It. traces Ed Gein's childhood, isolation, descent into madness. But here's what's. interesting. It weaves in pop culture. threads about how his crimes later. shaped Psycho, The Texas Chainsaw. Massacre, The Silence of the Lambs. It. is slick. It is cinematic. It is deeply. unsettling. But also, in classic Ryan.

Murphy fashion, the argument is it's dramatically. embellished. So, to help us separate. fact from fiction, to really uncover the. real story of Ed Gein, I want to bring. on a special guest. I always say I have. a special guest, but this is really, really a special guest. We're so happy. to have him. Harold Schechter is joining. us. Now, who is Harold? Harold is a true. crime author of the book Deviant: The. Shocking True Story of Ed Gein, the. original psycho. Harold, thank you so. much for taking the time. Really. appreciate it.

Uh very glad to be here. Thank you. inviting me for inviting me on. You got. it. So, as our resident Ed Gein expert, let's just start here. What got you. involved in wanting to study his life, um to write the book? Let's just start. there. Well, uh. I for 42 years, my day job was as a. professor of American literature here at. Queens uh Queens College here in New. York City. And my special area uh of.

study was 19th century Gothic. literature, Edgar Allan Poe, Nathaniel. Hawthorne, and so on. So, I've always. been very interested in why we need. stories about monsters. And at some point in my researches on. another book, I came across the fact, which was not widely known at the time, I mean, I was unaware of it, that both.

Hitchcock's Psycho and Tobe Hooper's The. Texas Chainsaw Massacre had both been. inspired by the same true-life criminal. So, I began to investigate that. Thought. it might make. an intriguing subject for a book. Uh and proceeded to do a great deal of. research. into the story, traveling to Plainfield, speaking to Gein's neighbors and people. who had grown up with him. Uh and uh.

interviewing psychiatrists who had. treated him, and so on. And the result. was my book Deviant. And and and let me. say this, there is a tremendous interest. in Ed Gein. I mean, if you even if you. look at the Netflix series right now, I. think it's number one on the charts. Um. you've watched a majority of it. We're. going to get into specifics, specific. points about whether they got it right. or not. But from your opinion, two two. questions I have. One, are you. Do you think that they got his story.

right, generally speaking? We'll get. into specifics. And two, there has been. a backlash on these kind of shows that. would arguably glamorize or dramatize. a killer, you know? And we saw it in the. Menendez brothers. We're seeing it here. Do you have a concern with these kinds. of shows where you're blending horror. with entertainment? Um so, let's start. here. How much of it do you think is. actually correct? How much of it's. accurate, and do you have a concern with. a show like this?

Uh. I would say that 90% of it is. inaccurate. Uh I was actually quite taken aback. uh by the kinds of liberties. the writer, Ian Brennan, took with the. Gein story. Uh th- there's so much in the show. that's pure fabrication. and has nothing to do. with the realities of the case. I- In its broad outline, it's accurate. I mean, Gein was this.

loner, overly attached to his mother, who became a grave robber, uh and murdered two local women. But aside from a few bare facts like. that, there was pretty much nothing in all. eight episodes that seemed to me to bear. any reality to the historical facts. Th-. That's interesting that you say that. Um. and I want to dive into that. But but. you mentioned his mother, Augusta. I- I-.

It's, you know, often portrayed as the. key, the key to his psyche. From your. research, was that really the root of Ed. Gein, his psychology? Was it just part. of a larger picture? Um let's start. right there. Well, it was certainly uh a major part. of his psychology. I mean, i- i- it appears that after her death, when he was living alone in this uh. ramshackle. farmhouse with no electricity or running.

water, uh he grew so lonely for her company. that he attempted to uh dig up her. corpse and bring it back home to me, but. he was unable. to reach the coffin. um primarily because the soil in that. part of Wisconsin is very sandy, and. many graves many coffins are. uh interred within concrete vaults. That. seems to have been the case with. Augusta.

So then he began to dig up the bodies. of uh middle-aged and elderly women. who might have reminded him in some way. of his mother and bring those back to. his farmhouse. Uh. uh apparently when he ran out of. suitable corpses in the local graveyard, he decided to make a couple of them. So. he murdered these two women. I would say. executed them. Uh and brought their bodies back home.

So uh. Y- Yeah, I I I a lot of the uh actions. that have made him so notorious and. really unique. in the annals of American crime had to. do with this attempt to resurrect his. mother. A- And before we get into specifics of. the show, you you raise a larger point. There are people who say there are. accounts who say he's not the. conventional serial killer as we would. know, more of a grave ro- grave robber. like you said, who crossed the line.

Would you agree with that? He's not a. traditional serial killer as we, you. know, typically think. Yeah, I've been saying that for a while. Okay. That. the new edition of my book, which you. can see over my shoulder, um. uh uh I I wrote an afterword, and and. the first thing I talk about is the fact. that Gein was not a serial killer. In fact, the phrase serial killer. doesn't even appear in my book. Uh.

th- The phrase serial killer was coined. to describe specifically. uh what used to be called lust. murderers, that is to say, psychopathic. sex killers. like John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy, uh. who derive their sick pleasure from. abducting, torturing, and then murdering victims, uh and usually having an orgasm when. they finally kill them.

Uh Gein was not a sex killer. Uh the two women he killed, as I said, he he just shot in the head. I mean, he. executed them. He wasn't interested in. torturing them. He was interested in. bringing their corpses back home so he. could mutilate them in the way he liked. to do. Um so yeah, Gein was One thing of the. show. that I had difficulty with. is that. it you know, it presents Gein as this.

sort of prototypical serial killer who. inspired all these other serial killers. Uh A, I'm sure all the. serial killers they show at the end of. the show. had no idea who Ed Gein was. >> Mhm. Again, among other things, he was a. pretty obscure figure. Uh I uh modestly. take some credit for bringing him into. the larger public awareness. Um but. yeah, but he was not a serial killer.

No, I and I appreciate you you. emphasizing that point. Um let's get. into some of the storylines in this a-. And we'll start with what you just said, uh you know, how Ed Gein would sneak. into these graveyards at night under. moonlight, dig up the coffins, harvest the skin, the bones to make. these macabre artifacts. Uh from that. depiction in the show, that aspect of. it, is it all accurate or no?

That part of it's pretty accurate from. what I saw. Um. the. most inaccurate part. is the scene in which we see Gein having. intercourse with one of the bodies. Uh. i- it's very unclear if he ever had any. sexual activities with the bodies. There's some suggestion. that he might have at one point tried or. thought of it. Um but he wasn't. particularly interested in.

Right. I- You know, that. th- th- the classic the term necro-. necrophilia. was originally coined to describe uh a. 19 early 19th century French military. man. He was known as Sergeant Bertrand, who would go into corp- uh go into. graveyards at night, dig up. uh corpses until he found one. of a recently buried attractive young. woman.

and uh have sex with a corpse. You know, I always think of Gein, I know. this sounds somewhat flippant, but you. know, as a peculiarly American kind of. necrophile. Mhm. >> He didn't want to have sex with corpses. He wanted to use. their bodies as raw material for his. home improvement projects. Yeah, that's That's definitely the way. to put it. Um all right, let's talk. about this babysitter aspect. So this. claim that he was a babysitter,

the series shows several eerie scenes. where he can be sitting on the floor, telling children stories, the camera. slowly revealing the horror that is. waiting back home. Do the historical. accounts suggest A that he was a. babysitter and that he was creepy or. strange around children, or is that an. invention of the show? He was a babysitter. And the fact that. he was a babysitter says something about. the way he was perceived in the. community. You know, he was just seen as.

maybe slightly simple-minded, uh but friendly and obliging person. uh who would run errands for neighbors. and so on. So apparently he did do some. babysitting, but. uh. he he he he actually related very well. to children. When I did my research, I spoke to uh a. young man, um. I guess he was in his 40s maybe at the.

time I spoke to him, uh who had been Gein's nearest neighbor. and and had been in Gein's house, uh you know, who spoke warmly of Gein. Gein apparently related better to. children than he did to grownups. So all. that stuff about Gein terrorizing these. kids is just one of many fabrications in. the show. Talk about grownups. We mentioned her. earlier, Bernice Worden. So this. hardware store owner who was killed by. Gein, found mutilated in his shed. The.

Netflix series kind of portrays this. romantic relationship, right, between. the two of them. And in Monster, his. rel- relationship with her, uh and she's. portrayed by Leslie Manville, it's. complex, it's longing, it's elements of. resentment, it's delusion. The show. builds them into these kind of tragic. opposites, right? She's a widow trying. to move on, he's this lonely man. yearning for a maternal figure. There's. a lot of emotional tension. What is.

accurate about the relationship, what is. not? Do you think that they took. creative liberties with the romantic. aspect? Nothing is accurate about it. I mean, it's complete fabrication. You know, Bernice Worden, kind of a grandmotherly kind of person, uh who ran the local hardware store. Y- You know, Gein did seem to apparently. have some interest in her. Uh uh. he he sort of joke Well, it was hard to.

know if he was joking or not, but at. some point he asked her to go if she. would go roller skating with him. Uh roller skating was a favorite. activity of his. Um but apart from that, they they had no. relationship whatsoever. S- Uh you know, my I I somebody sent me. recently a a posting online. that the. Warden family is quite upset over how. the show depicts. their relationship that there's no truth.

to it at all. That's common. We see that in a lot of. these shows. People who are portrayed, the family members, particularly of. those who are no longer here, that they. they are quite vocal about how it's. being portrayed because for a lot of. people this is going to be a show, their. first introduction to Ed Gein. They may. take everything as true, which is why. again, Harold, I'm so happy to have you. here to to break it down and separate. fact from fiction. There are darker. subplots here. And one of the things. here is this tie with Gein to.

a real unsolved case, the 1953. disappearance of Evelyn Hartley, a. 15-year-old babysitter from La Crosse, Wisconsin. She vanished on October 24th. She was babysitting a family's. 20-month-old daughter. In the show, in. Monster, detectives suspect that Ed Gein. and he even hallucinates about Evelyn, who's. played by Addison Rae. In real life, Harold, what's the story? Were there. ever any police leads linking him to. Evelyn Hartley's disappearance?

Well, when the horrors in Gein's. farmhouse were first uncovered, all. these body parts, the immediate. assumption was that they had come from. murder victims. That Gein was in fact a serial killer, although that phrase didn't exist back. then. They probably would have called it a. mass murderer. Uh. you know, there there was no suspicion. at the time that he was a grave robber. So, after his arrest, as often happens. in such cases, all these police.

officials. descended on Plainfield hoping they. could close out these cold cases. by pinning them on Gein. Uh but there is absolutely no evidence. that Gein had anything to do with Evelyn. Hartley's disappearance. And I. am firmly of the belief that he was not. responsible for it. because again, that wasn't Gein's MO. Uh you know, he wasn't interested in. abducting and sexually.

abusing and torturing young women. He. was strictly. interested. in. somehow. both trying to resurrect his mother. Mhm. and his mother. back to live with him. While at the same time. you know, the psychologists who examined. Gein. felt, justifiably, that he had these very ambivalent.

feelings towards his mother, which he. never consciously admitted to. Right. >> this is a woman who so dominated and. obviously in many ways helped destroy. his life. He both worshipped her. but on a level he was not aware of. you know, he he harbored all these. homicidal. feelings towards her. So, he was bringing back these bodies. both in an effort to as I say, resurrect. her, but also.

in a to enact these terrible mutilations. on her. But in any case, yeah, the Evelyn. Hartley thing. the part in. the show where he kills these two. hunters and dismembers them with a. chainsaw. There's so much in the show. you know, that is absolute make-believe. Right. That he helped solve the Ted. Bundy case and so on and so forth. Yeah, I wanted to get to that one. But since.

we're talking family, there's another. big part of this, this lingering mystery. about what happened to Ed Gein's. brother, Henry. Is the idea that he. killed him, right? So, remember we told. you earlier that Henry died in a fire. under what was deemed suspicious. circumstances, but Monster portrays his. death in an interesting way. In the. show, Ed Gein is seen killing his. brother during an argument about their. mother, striking him in a rage, staging. the death as a brush fire accident. That.

is one of the series' most striking. scenes. Any aspect of that that seems to. match up? Well, there is a scene in my book. that I based on something Gein must have. said in which he and Henry, you know, Henry is sort of a. warning Ed about the mother. But. there's no evidence that Ed killed. Henry.

My own feeling is again. that he did not kill Henry. That they were both fighting this brush. fire and that Henry, which was. you know, not a. necessarily uncommon thing, died from. asphyxiation or had a heart attack. And he apparently when he collapsed, he. apparently hit his head on a rock. Uh. again, after Gein's, you know, atrocities were uncovered there was all. this talk.

about his having murdered. Henry, you know, that it was a Cain and. Abel situation. Uh but as far as my own opinion goes, based on my research he did not kill. Henry. Okay. All right. Look, you mentioned Ted. Bundy. I was going to mention it later. Let's talk about it actually right now. We'll get into some more of the killings. that were portrayed in the show. Um. there is a connection in the show. Right? So, the series ends with this.

kind of surreal twist that Ed Gein, institutionalized but lucid is. consulting with a young FBI agent about. a new killer at the time named Ted. Bundy. That is a big development in the. show. My understanding is the timelines. don't even match up even if this were. true, right? I mean, this. any did he help with the investigation. to Ted Bundy at all? No, right? No. And all those scenes of the end where. you have, as I think I may have said. before. you know, these serial killers.

Richard Speck uh. you know, Brudos, I forget his first name. You. know, citing Ed as his inspiration. Uh. again, it's ridiculous. First of all, Ed was not a serial. killer. And second of all. uh it's very doubtful that any of those. figures had any idea who Gein was. at that time. So, the notion of the FBI. consulting him in their hunt for Ted.

Bundy. you know, I I I kind of admire that. level of imaginative fantasy, but but. has no basis in reality. And going back to the idea of what. killings. were actually tied to him and not and. what's complete fiction. Um there is a. part where we see. Ed Gein, years after being locked away. kills a nurse inside the psychiatric. ward. Like you know, the monster never.

really stopped, right? It's brutal. It. is shocking. It leaves you thinking that. he was still dangerous even under. supervision. Did that actually happen? No. I know apparently Gein. who was living much better in the. institution than he had ever lived. before you know, with other people and. actually. being served, you know, fairly decent meals as opposed. to. eating reheated baked beans out of the.

top of a human skull and had, you know, nice surroundings, well, relative to. where he had lived before. You know, he was just an easygoing model. prisoner. Uh very cheerful, very friendly. conducting. you know, these pen pal correspondences. that he developed warm relationships. with. So, again, yeah, made up. Made up. Okay. And you put the murders to the side.

Going back to romance, there's another. part that we got to talk about where we. meet Adeline Watkins. I believe this is she's played by. Susanna Son. She's this waitress, this. aspiring singer who supposedly falls for. him. And she visits him in secret after. his mother dies. And for a few episodes. it's almost like this tragic love story, her trying to save him, him wanting. connection being too far gone. You know, you could say it's tender, it's it's.

unsettling. It gives the show this. weird emotional break in the middle of. all of the horror, in the middle of all. everything we're seeing. Any aspect of that that's real? I mean, what do we know about her? Well, there was an Adeline Watkins. Um. First of all, short answer, no, none of. that is real. Okay. Um. So, Adeline Watkins did live in. Plainfield. Uh. if you see photographs of her, and I. don't mean to be cruel but you know, she.

bears a striking resemblance to Margaret. Hamilton in The Wizard of Oz. The Wicked. Witch of the West. She apparently, I. mean, she and she might have gone roller. skating once with Gein. It's a little. unclear. But evidently. she was a something of a publicity. hound. And when the media descended on. Plainfield after the discovery of Gein's.

crimes she. put herself forward. as Ed Gein's girlfriend. She actually. later retracted all that. But they barely had any kind of. relationship. And as I say, she was by. no means. uh. you know. resembled the actress who plays her in. the show. Mhm. Mhm. I want to circle back to something that. you mentioned before, the legacy.

of Ed Gein. You talked about whether or. not anyone was inspired by what he did. And you're seeing Hollywood, whether it. was Psycho or whether it was The Texas. Chainsaw Massacre. Um and the show kind of makes or or you. know, Silence of the Lambs, Buffalo. Bill. You know, the woman suit. It seems there was an inspiration from. this or maybe maybe not. I mean, I think. Netflix series plays with that idea in. the series. They weave in little nods to.

these directors. Um how much of that connection is real? And I guess how much has Ed Gein shaped. Hollywood horror the way that Netflix. suggests? And it goes back to a larger. theme, right? If people are watching. this and people are trying to understand. what they should take away from this. story. What should they? I mean, what is his. inspiration? What is his connection? Why. should people What should people look. for in the series and what should they. not look for?

Well, in. where the where the series goes wrong, again, is suggesting that Ed's main legacy was. you know, as this pioneering serial. killer. Ed does have an important legacy. He. actually is an important cultural. figure. And the reason for that is, you know, I. always tell people I'm a baby boomer and. I grew up in the 1950s and I spent or.

misspent. a really. wild childhood, you know, watching all. these horror movies and stuff. And. before Psycho, all the monsters. in popular culture came from other. places. You know, Dracula comes from Transylvania and. there's the Wolfman of London and the. mummy from Egypt or Martian Invaders. What Psycho did in the character of. Norman Bates was create the first really.

all-American monster. Uh and also. was really the precursor of the later. slasher movie genre. And insofar as Ed stands behind Norman. Bates, which he does, you know, most people know Psycho. justifiably through Hitchcock's. masterpiece, but. uh Psycho is based on a book by the. horror writer Robert Bloch.

And in the book, when Norman is. arrested, he compares himself to Ed. Gein. So, Gein is the direct inspiration for. Psycho. And insofar as Psycho again Americanized. the genre of horror, uh you can say that Ed uh did have this. major major cultural impact. And and when we go back to this Netflix. show, I'm assuming you would say take. everything with a grain of salt, listen. to this episode of Sidebar where we.

correct fact from fiction, but I think. you would agree the title monster, that. would be accurate to describe Ed Gein. I would say you should take it with a. whole salt shaker full of salt. Fair enough. And uh but yes, but you know, there's no. question that. Gein was a monster, although many people. who have read my book and I also did a. graphic novel with the great comic book. artist named Eric Powell called Did You.

Hear What Ed Gein Done? People have read. that. You know, it's possible to feel, given the horrendous conditions he lived. under and the kinds of abuse he suffered. at the hands of his mother, possible to. feel. a small degree of sympathy for Gein, which of course it's not possible to. feel, you know, for John Wayne Gacy or Ted. Bundy. You know, those people were pure evil. You know, Gein was not evil in that way. Mhm. Well, I encourage everybody to. check out your work on this, including.

that graphic novel, including the book. Deviant, the shocking true story of Ed. Gein, the regional psycho. Thank you so much. for taking the time, Howard Schacter. Really, really appreciate it. Glad to be here. Thank you for inviting. me on. That is all we have for you right. now here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank. you so much for joining us. And as. always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you get. your podcast. You can follow me on X or. Instagram. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll see you. next time. [Music].