Stunning Twist Derails 'Terrible Mother' Murder Case

A woman accused of starving her. 5-year-old daughter to death out in. Indiana finally [music] went to trial. this week, but it all came to a. screeching halt thanks to a juror. What does this mean? What does this mean. [music] for the case? What does this. mean for the attorneys who spent all. this time prepping? And what does it. mean for the defendant who currently. remains behind bars? We're bringing. [music] on a local criminal defense. attorney to sort it all out. Welcome to. Sidebar presented by Law & Crime. [music].

I'm Jesse Weber. By the way, as you're watching this and. you're into content creation or you're. putting things out on social media, you. might be wondering how do we get all. these clips out there so quickly? Well, we use something called Opus Clip. Opus. Clip is an all-in-one AI editor that. makes it so easy to cut, create, and. upload videos across any platform. Through AI, Opus Clip generates B-roll, it reframes footage, and it even cleans. up audio. It's really easy. You just. visit opus.pro/sidebar, you sign up, you upload, and in minutes. you'll have perfectly edited clips ready. to go for Tik Tok, shorts, reels. Opus.

Clip is really a one-stop shop, and. having a tool like Opus Clip means that. our producers can get you viral. courtroom updates instantly. This is the. most powerful tool there is to share. ideas and edit like a pro. So, go to. opus.pro/sidebar. to get a free week and then 50% off. When 5-year-old Kinsley Welty died in. April 2024, she weighed a shocking 21 lb. According. to investigators, this little girl was. consistently locked in a feces-filled.

closet inside a trailer home and. starved. Her mother, Toni McClure, grandmother, Tammy Holsclaw, McClure's. live-in boyfriend, Ryan Smith, they all. face charges related to this little. girl's death. Smith, Holsclaw, they both. took plea deals for neglect resulting in. death, got 20-year prison sentences, and. they were expected to testify against. McClure at her murder trial, which by. the way started Monday, June 22nd out in. Indianapolis. Give you a sense of what. had been happening in this trial. So, media outlet WTHR reported on the.

prosecution's just. brutal really brutal opening statement. Ann Frango, say Marion County Deputy. Prosecutor, reportedly told jurors, quote, she was killed by the systematic, prolonged, and fatal abuse at the hands. of her mother, the defendant. She was. subjected to deliberate starvation, deliberate confinement, to physical. abuse, to psychological abuse. Prosecutor continued, I am sorry for. what you're about to see and to hear,

but it is important evidence. It is. important evidence so that you know that. she intentionally killed Kinsley in the. slowest, most painful, and torturous. way, and she is absolutely guilty of the. intentional murder. of her daughter. By the way, little side note, yeah, these are some of the toughest. cases for jurors to sit on. It's one. thing to sit on a homicide case, but. when the victim is this young, when you talk about the allegations, how. she died, it's like the worst.

Now, in addition to murder, McClure was also. charged with criminal confinement. resulting in serious bodily injury, and. battery on a person younger than 14. years old. So, the state wants McClure. to be locked up for the rest of her. life, no chance of parole. McClure's defense attorney, Diana. Martin, different story. Reportedly admitted. during her opening statement that. McClure is, quote, a terrible mother. This is according to WTHR. A high school. dropout, had six children with four.

different men, but her argument was. McClure did not intentionally. kill Kinsley. So, per outlet WISH-TV, Martin told the jury, quote, a lot of. what Tony does is directly correlated. with the way she was raised and Tammy's. influence. That doesn't excuse what Tony. did. What you will have to decide, though, is did Tony do the crimes that. she's actually charged with? During that. first day of trial, the Indianapolis. Star reports that a detective with the.

Indianapolis Metropolitan Police. Department cried on the stand. This was. when describing the back bedroom closet. where Kinsley was locked up. The. forensic pathologist who supervised. Kinsley's autopsy also testified. describing the 5-year-old's body as. shocking, extremely thin, severely. malnourished, and covered with lice. Courtroom observers say that disturbing. photos showed. that Kinsley was.

quite literally. just skin and bones. When she arrived at. the hospital, she had feces in her hair, feces stains in the bottom of her feet. She was missing teeth. There was. apparently no sign that she had. permanent teeth coming in at all. Kinsley's cause of death was determined. to be complications from malnutrition. and dehydration, and the manner of death. was ruled a homicide. Now, testimony continued on Tuesday, but. you know what the problem was? It's what. happened after lunch. Shocking. announcement. The judge declared a.

mistrial. Case is over for now. The. judge had dismissed the juror, and the. defense argued that the other jurors. hadn't followed the court's. instructions. So, the judge declared a. mistrial, dismissed everyone. WTHR. reports that the juror apparently had an. inappropriate conversation with a. witness outside the courtroom, something. that is strictly forbidden. It's also. now being reported that Marion County. Prosecutor's Office charged that. allegedly offending juror with indirect. contempt of court, which is classified.

as a non-criminal charge. Prosecutor. Ryan Mears shared a statement saying it. is profoundly disappointing that this. trial has ended in a mistrial because of. inappropriate communications between a. juror and a witness. The outcome derails. months of preparations by the parties. and delays justice for Kinsley and her. loved ones. We remain committed to. presenting this case again and securing. the justice she deserves. WTHR also. reports that the juror has a court. hearing in connection with the contempt. charge that's set for July 18th. McClure's trial has now been rescheduled.

for August 24th when everything is going. to start over. They'll pick a new jury, they'll have to redeliver opening. statements, those witnesses are going to. have to get up there, have to testify. again. How difficult is that going to. be? Okay, so to help me sort through all. this, I want to welcome back on Indiana. criminal defense attorney Andrew. Baldwin. Andrew, so good to see you. Thanks for taking the time. We actually. discussed this case, I think it was last. fall. That was when Kinsley's biological. grandfather, right, Brian Welty, filed. this lawsuit against DCS, which we'll. talk about. But I got to say, I mean,

this is a big development. A juror. accused of talking to a witness? I I I. ask this question a lot on Cyber, cuz we. always cover kind of like outlier cases. I've heard of jurors speaking to other. jurors, and that could be a problem. But. a juror speaking to a witness? Have you. seen something like this? >> Uh I in 32 years, I have not seen that, and I practice in that very courthouse. where this happened. So, that makes it even more surprising if. you know the layout of the courthouse, because the jurors are shuttled away.

into the these back rooms that, you. know, we access we we lawyers don't have. access to those rooms. So, the only way. that this I think could have conceivably. happened was at the end of the day when. the jurors were released, that this particular juror ran into on. his way to his car or whatever, the. juror ran into this witness that had. apparently testified. So, no, >> Or the bathroom? The bathroom, I feel. like the bathroom something can happen. >> It It could be, but the jurors have.

their own bathrooms and stuff in the. back in these back halls that we aren't. We We even lawyers don't have access to. So, I'm I'm not really sure how what. happened, what the breakdown was if. there was one. You You don't hold these. jurors all overnight. You know, they. have to leave at some point in time. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, and a charge, too, right? Getting. charged indirect contempt of court. What. does that mean? >> Well, direct contempt of court is when. you know, this particular judge, Judge.

Snyder, very good judge, very. experienced judge, when you tell him to. go to hell or you know, make disparaging remarks about him in. front of him. >> Not advisable. Don't do it. Yeah, not. advisable. >> Not a not a good idea. Um indirect contempt is things that are. things that happen away from the. courtroom. Um so, if you are ordered, for example, I've seen this happen. before where witnesses in a trial are. not to to be talking to one another. while the trial is happening. It's. called a separation of witnesses order.

And I've had uh situations where. witnesses did talk to one another while. the case was pending. We found out about. it, and we asked for. indirect contempt. And uh that's what. happened here is there was an order you. know, jurors know don't talk to anybody. That's that's something that the judge. tells them. The judge told these. witnesses not or these jurors not to. talk to witnesses, and he did. And now. he's suffering for it. >> What What do you get for that, indirect. contempt of court? >> Well,

you could theoretically you could be. it's it's kind of a. quasi. civil, potentially criminal. The civil side of it, that costs a lot of money to redo a. trial. And so, every day those jurors. are getting I think it's $50 or $60 a. day. Um plus all the the initial jurors. during jury selection, it might be 10, 15, 20 grand, and the judge could say, "You're You're You cost the taxpayers. all this money. You owe that money. That's your sanction.".

If the judge finds out that it's a. little bit more devious or something. more. you know, wrong about what if the guy. who walks in with an attitude and says, "Hey, I'm a juror. You can't touch me.". Then the judge can say, "That's fine. You go to jail for 10 for 30 days or. something like that.". >> Is it was it the right call to declare a. mistrial? >> Oh, absolutely. You know, on a something. of this serious, you do not need that. issue hanging over your head at the. court of appeals level. You you just you. just got to you got to do it. And and.

the main reason is it's not fair to the. defendant uh potentially. And it may not. be fair to the state depending on what. the conversation was between the witness. and the juror. >> Fair. Fair. Um Kinsley's grandfather. spoke with uh WISH-TV after this. mistrial announcement and he is. worried this could have unintended. consequences down the line. Quote, "This. has been a grueling process, but I would. much rather have this come out now so. not to be part of an appeal or something.

even further down the road in this. trial. The judge gave them and everyone. very strict guidelines on this behavior. and repeated multiple times throughout. the trial. I feel sick in that someone. would be so reckless doing something. that could potentially have a huge. impact on the outcome of this trial. And. and by the way, Andrew, that goes to a. bigger point, right? I say this all the. time in the cases where people. Look, every criminal defendant is. innocent unless proven guilty. But in. those cases where you're like, this. evidence is overwhelming, they're. definitely going to be convicted. I'm. not saying it's the case here, but that.

that you know, the evidence is strong. You got to make sure that the defendant. is entitled to every right and is given. every opportunity and uh dot every I and. cross every T cuz what would happen? Imagine like Kohberger, right, went to. trial and something happened and then. all that goes on and then down the road. his his conviction's overturned and they. got a retrial. I mean, look at the. the eight-on-Phelps case, right? I mean, like that's because you could have a. situation where if this happens years.

and years down the line and then they're. in a the prosecution's in a worse place. trying to re-prosecute this case and. they might not be successful. And. somebody who committed a crime could get. off. >> Yeah. Yeah, you know, in this case I think. they're re- the re-trial date is in. August, but everything you just said is. totally accurate. If it if if it goes to. the court of appeals in years down the. road, key witnesses die or they move to. Hawaii or whatever and all of a sudden. the prosecution is scrambling to to. assemble a. case that was ready locked and loaded to.

go back in the original trial date. And. you know, the the only like like what I. would say, Jesse, that one of the the. fallouts from a short even a short. continuance is this. Um these are experienced lawyers. I've. tried murder case against one of these. prosecutors. Uh the the public defender is like these. are the the top of the top. And so they got basically a uh a. a rehearsal a dress rehearsal of the. trial. So they're going to be able to go. back, reconfigure their case, what was.

working, what wasn't working. Maybe the. the prosecution revealed some evidence. or some a theory that they were. utilizing or the defense. And so now. these people are going to it won't be. the same trial the second time around. more than likely. It's going to be. tweaked at a very minimum. >> Is there an advantage to the defense at. all? >> Oh, I think so. I mean, I. I think learning what the prosecution's. kind of theories are, their themes, how. they're going to try the case, their. approach, the the number of witnesses. that already testified. Now they're on.

record. You might be maybe their. testimony these are all state's. witnesses because they went first. Maybe. these state's witnesses testimony will. differ in trial number two. I know it's. kind of silly saying that when we. believe that the over the evidence looks. so overwhelming from what you know, media accounts are. But until you're in. that courtroom and you're watching these. people in real time testifying and. they've changed their story from this to. this. over the course of two months, that. could have impact on a case. >> Do you think that this was potentially.

leading to a conviction? Do you think. the evidence looked overwhelming? >> Well, I mean, I'm I'm a defense lawyer, so I'm always optimistic that there's. there's a way to. win a case or a way to at least I think. what um. the defense lawyer on this case was. doing having heard a little bit of her. opening statement was she was conceding. many of the counts and saying she's. she's a terrible mom. She's a you know, but she's not guilty. of murder. She just she's just a.

terrible mom. She didn't know any. better. >> No No intent. No intent. >> No intent. No intent. Just like no skill. set to know how to to properly raise a. child, something along those lines. So, I whether that murder conviction had any. legs at all to to be defeated, I don't. know. I mean, emotionally that's going. to take its toll on a jury emotionally. >> It's you know, it's just a terrible. thing for everybody to watch. Even. defense lawyers get upset looking at. that. >> And look, when you think about the. family and even the witnesses who have.

to go through this again and again and. again, you know, in a trial, it's. difficult. I mean, it's hard testifying. It's hard hearing this evidence once, but to hear it again is is even tougher. But it does make me wonder, have you. seen a case before where it's like this? It's not The victim is not an adult. The. victim is a child. Care, custody. What. it seems to me very difficult unless it. was a one-off episode and a freak thing. If you're seeing evidence of prolonged. abuse or prolonged neglect, how is that not intent?

>> Well, I think you might and I have no. idea. Dina Martin is a terrific defense. lawyer. She's. one of the top dogs over there and she's. won some She's won some cases that. nobody ever expected her to win. You. know, public defenders get a bad name. I'm a private lawyer, but I always say. there's some really terrific public the. out there. She's one of them. And I don't know it so I don't want to. say that I know what's going on with. that case. I don't. But you're asking. how would you how would you win. something like that if it's so prolonged.

over a period of time? And it could go. toward. the intelligence of the defendant. Like, you know, yeah, for for regular people. with normal intelligence you would know. that this is not the right way to do it. But if you are of a diminished capacity. in terms of intelligence, not that you. you you understand the wrongfulness of. your act, that's different. That's more. of a an insanity defense what people. might call. I'm talking about more of a. diminished capacity in terms of. intellectual capacity. You might be able.

to convince a jury like this woman just. didn't get it. She just didn't know. She. thought this was a proper way to. discipline. As crazy as that sounds. And. she didn't understand when she looked at. the child that this child was suffering. You know, I know it sounds crazy, but. sometimes you have to. >> No, no, I I hear you. I hear you. Um I. want to talk about Brian Wealthy's. lawsuit. So it was originally filed uh. on behalf of Kinsley last fall. It named. the Indiana Department of Child Services. as well as multiple individual people. that were allegedly involved in. McClure's DCS case as defendants.

Wealthy had claimed and claims that. their inaction allowed his granddaughter. to slip through the cracks and. ultimately into her grave. Because. according to Wealthy, DCS was well aware. that McClure had previously been. convicted of felony child neglect in the. past, but was allowed to keep raising. Kinsley and her siblings. And there's. been a lot of activity on the civil. docket over the last few weeks. The. group called uh state defendants filed a. motion to dismiss the lawsuit. And at.

first it looked like the judge had. agreed because Wealthy's attorneys. hadn't submitted a response by the. deadline. But then Wealthy's attorneys. filed their own motion asking for the. judge to set aside that order for at. least for now. They showed email proof. that counsel on both sides had agreed to. a time extension for Wealthy to respond. They apparently forgot to submit an. official request to the court for that. extension. The judge agreed to set aside. the motion and that gave Welty's team an. opportunity to file the response to the. dismissal request. But, in that motion, counsel didn't shy away from the.

horrifying details. It says, quote, "But, Kinsley was not hidden from the. Indiana Department of Child Services. To. the contrary, during the 5 months. preceding her death, DCS received at. least five separate reports warning that. Kinsley was being abused, neglected, and. starved. Reporters repeatedly warned that she. appeared malnourished, severely. underweight, and was not being fed. They. reported that she had been struck with a. belt, forced to stand facing a wall for.

hours, berated different Excuse me, treated differently than the other. children in the home, and that her hair. was falling out. One report specifically. alleged that food was intentionally. withheld from her by locking cabinets. and the refrigerator. Yet, despite these. escalating warnings, and despite. defendant Tony McClure's well-documented. history of substantiated abuse and. neglect involving Kinsley, including a. felony conviction for neglect of a. dependent, DCS repeatedly closed report. after report as unsubstantiated. And it.

finally goes on to say, "Uh these report. closures did not occur in a vacuum. For. years, DCS has struggled to recruit and. retain sufficient numbers of family case. managers, resulting in excessive case. loads. To address those burdens, DCS. allegedly implemented an internal policy. directing caseworkers to refer 50% of. their assessments to the SAFE Assessment. Closure Team for expedited closure. Although SAFE Act was reportedly created. to assist in promptly closing low-risk. assessments once child safety had been.

confirmed, plaintiff alleges DCS instead. used the program to rapidly reduce case. load numbers despite serious safety. concerns. Three separate reports. concerning Kinsley's abuse were. disclosed through this expedited. process, all without ever laying eyes on. Kinsley. DCS's misuse of the safe act. was an affirmative act that put Kinsley. in grave danger. Andrea, go to you. I know that there's always an argument. Look, our goal is to maintain the.

family. Our goal is not to remove a. child or get involved unless we. absolutely have to. But if I'm listening to this, and yes, these are allegations, but if I'm. listening to this. feels like it puts the government in a. tough spot. >> Yeah, I mean, this. you. this lawsuit is essentially um bringing. uh truth to power. I mean, you're you're. trying to get the government to change. the way that it does things. I it's bigger than the lawsuit itself in. a way. Like, you know, lawsuits are.

about money. That's what That's how you. get That's how you get compensated. There's It's money. I don't It doesn't. It doesn't seem as if that is really. what is going on in this lawsuit. It is, we want structural change. We want to. bring truth and and shine a light on uh. problems that have existed for decades. in Indiana in the in the DCS or. Department of Child Services. uh arena. And these people, by the way, the DCS employees, they are overworked, they are underpaid, there is not enough. of them, and I'm not trying to to to.

take, you know, but but the leadership, you know, that's who this is really. going toward is the leadership who puts. these practices in place. And uh the. legislature has looked into this, and. they're and they're they are trying to. figure out what they can do about it. But this is a big, big deal. >> To be clear, that's not a legal defense. Like, we don't have the resources to be. able to do it. Like, that's not a legal. defense, right? >> No. I that's I I'm not a civil lawyer, but there's no way I think that that. stands. Right. I'm just saying, you.

know, DCS employees, they get a bad rap, too. But it it you know, they do. And. but some of them it's deserved and um. but really it's the leadership of the. department and that's who's who's being. put on trial in that in that civil case. >> There's an interesting question about. qualified immunity. I just want your. thoughts. So the defendants have argued. that they're. they're. protected from litigation. They're. insulated from litigation. They can't be. sued. The plaintiffs argue that not. every single action undertaken by a. government agency is automatically.

protected. Quote, "Plaintiff does not. allege that DCS failed to provide police. protection, failed to apprehend a. criminal suspect, or failed to prevent. crime generally. Rather, plaintiff. alleges that DCS failed to perform its. own child protection functions after. receiving repeated reports that Kinsley. was being abused, neglected, starved, and malnourished." Andrew, any thoughts. on that? >> Well, I I'm not a civil lawyer, so I don't. want to pretend that I am, but you know, I I think there's always where there's a. will, there's a way. There's always some.

uh carve out that and it sounds like. they that's the carve out there is what. you just read. And yeah, immunity is I. did do civil work many years ago and. it's always like, "Oh my gosh, I can't. believe we're not able to sue this guy. over that." And because they're. protected by this immunity clause or. whatever, but there was always there was. always a potential at least if the if. the. behavior was so outrageous, so out of. the norm that you could actually. overcome and pierce that that veil of.

of immunity. And that sounds to me like. if if this isn't the case for piercing. the veil of immunity, I don't know what. case that what case exists that would. >> Right. Um going back to the criminal. case. So McLaurin's expected to be back. in an Indianapolis retrial in July or. August. We're going to be keeping a a. careful eye on that. How tough is jury. selection going to be now because you. know, after everything that just. happened? >> I think it's. it was already difficult. I mean, this.

case got a lot of. a lot of press, but it just even the. facts themselves. Even if you don't know. about the case, once you as as a a. defense lawyer, you have to get out. ahead of what they are about to witness. and see, but so you got to talk about. you're going to see terrible. photographs. Are you able to to overcome. that? You're going to hear these. terrible facts. But now you have another. layer of problem, and that is. did anybody hear about the. the juror that came out and talked to a. witness? And now you've got a.

I think jury selection probably got. added to maybe at least a few hours if. if not a day. just because of the the new spotlight on. this case, you know, locally. It's. getting I can tell you from living in. Indianapolis, it is getting a huge amount of press. And the case itself, it got some good. press back in the day. That was 2 years. ago. Now it's now it's back on the. spotlight. >> We'll follow it. We'll see what happens. It's a big development. Andrew, thanks for taking the time. >> Thank you, Jesse. Good to Good to see.

you. >> And that's all we have for you right now. here on Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so. much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple. Podcast, Spotify, wherever you should. get your podcast. [music] You can also. check us out on NBC's Peacock as well. If you want to follow me, X, Instagram, my NewsNation show, Jesse Weber Live, Monday through Friday [music] at 11:00. p.m. Eastern. See you next time, everybody.