SHOCKING New Texts Revealed in Cornell ‘Gang Rape’ Case

Honestly, I really liked [music] being. with you. Let's be clear that 90% of. what happened that night was not. consensual. These are some of the texts. that Jane Doe reportedly sent after. being allegedly gang [music] raped at a. Cornell University fraternity house. How. will they be analyzed by a potential. jury? What [music] do they say about. what really happened that night? Was a. crime committed? That's what I want to. analyze. these [music] text messages, these conversations, additional. investigative details that have just. emerged. And this all sheds a whole new.

light on [music] this rapidly developing. investigation. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse. Weber. One aspect of the Cornell alleged rape. story are the newly surfaced text. messages from the accuser after the. purported sexual assault. And you have. to imagine they will no doubt be so. important in both the lawsuit and the. criminal investigation because they.

raise the question, was this consensual. or not? Arguably, it's not so much a. question of did sexual activity occur, but did this accuser consent to it all? The messages are key. The context of the. messages, the timeline of the messages. are key. Now, I've been away. I haven't. had the chance to talk about this story. yet. So, let me just quickly explain the. backstory. I'll get into the text, what. they can mean for the case. So, we're. talking about an alleged incident on the.

night of October 19th, 2024 at the KiFi. fraternity house at Cornell University. And it is there where an anonymous. woman, a student, sarity sister, Jane. Doe claims that after being served. alcohol at a bar, and she was apparently. underage to drink at the time, goes to. the frat house to see a friend. This is. at around 11 p.m. And while she. initially claimed that she had a. consensual sexual episode with two men. at the house, she alleges that it became. non-consensual when she was allegedly. drugged and raped by multiple men there.

One other piece of evidence that has. come out is that beginning at around. 1:42 a.m., so now October 20th, there. was this alleged conversation on the Ki. Chapter's Snapchat group, and it was. shared with nearly 60 frat brothers that. referenced seemingly a woman being. upstairs in the house being quote free. Another message like, "Can you walk in. and whip it out, RN?" ABC News also. reporting that the Ki brother who's. accused of inviting Jane Doe over that.

night apparently sent a photo to this. group chat that appears to show her in. the bedroom. Now, before I go into the. text messages, I just want to put them. into the timeline here because I think. that's going to be really, really vital. here, really important to understand. So, based on reporting from CBS News, who reviewed Cornell's Title N. investigative documents in this case, Jane Doe woke up after this alleged gang. rape and went back to her sarity house. where she apparently talked about what.

happened with the roommates. And. apparently, a roommate claims that Jane. Doe said, quote, "Oh my goodness, isn't. that crazy that she was laughing, that. she was possibly in shock over what. allegedly happened to her?" And this is. key. The roommate says that Jane Doe. never said she was raped, never said she. was sexually assaulted. The roommate. saying, according to the report, quote, she was kind of recounting it as the. sort of crazy thing she had done. And. then as the days went on, I think she. kind of came to realize that it was. something bad and that she didn't really.

enjoy her time there. According to the. report, another roommate said that Jane. Doe told her, quote, "I wasn't. comfortable." And apparently after. speaking with her sorority big sister, Jane do allegedly said, "You may hear. some rumors about me and unfortunately. they're true." October 22nd, Jane Doe. reportedly goes to Cornell Health, which. is the university's medical clinic on. campus. This is according to her. attorney, uh, Thomas P. Ju. She went. there for UTI and was tested for STDs.

And her attorney said she allegedly told. the staff there that she had contracted. the UTI in a quote traumatic way. But. despite that, Dufer claims all his. client was told was to speak to somebody. and she wasn't referred for a rape kit. And then when she did go in for a rape. kit on November 7th, all that time. later, he claims, quote, "All of the DNA. evidence was gone." Part one. This. brings me now to the text messages. According to reporting from outlets like. ABC and CBS, we have some of these. messages from Jane Doe that was sent.

days after the alleged gang rape. And. the question becomes, does this make the. case black and white, gray? Does it help. corroborate her account or not? I want. you to keep those questions in mind. So, one of the KiFi members who allegedly. sexually assaulted her reportedly texts. her, "I just wanted to apologize for how. things went down the other night." even. reportedly said that his memory was. quote kind of fuzzy and that he. regretted being too intoxicated to shut.

it down and kick people out before it. got way out of hand. Listen to messages. like that. You say, "Oh my gosh, that. helps her account. That's bad for them.". Right? Then this is what Jane Doe. reportedly texted. Quote, "At the end of. the day, none of the sexual stuff was. illegal. And honestly, I really liked. being with you." And she also reportedly. acknowledged that her memory of what. happened was quote super clouded too. She even allegedly suggested they smoke. together again. Quote, "But like leave.

out the extra 5 billion men and. ketamine.". Then it's reported that two weeks later, her position seemed to drastically. change, writing him, quote, "Let's be. clear that 90% of what happened that. night was not consensual. All I remember. after that was you giving me ketamine. and the New York Times reporting that. Jane Doe wrote how she quote felt like a. sex doll worker. So why this arguable.

change in tone, right? Change in. positioning. Well, according to the New. York Times review of the Title N. investigative documents on October 23rd, she apparently texts a friend named in. her lawsuit writing, "Bro, everyone. knows." So, seemingly referring to the. KiFi encounter and how this was quote. ruining my life temporarily. And then. she texts that all she could do was. quote, "Sleep and cry all day." This. apparent friend writes back how Jane Doe. didn't have anything to be ashamed of.

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came to the realization that I had been. gang raped." It should also be noted. that a roommate claimed she heard Jane. Doe tell one of the alleged attackers, quote, "You had penetrative sex with me. I had so much ketamine my eyes were. crossed and you still had sex with me.". Jane Doe then claims that she was. disinvited from a Halloween party at the. Ki House by the fraternity's president. Again, this is according to the New York. Times. and she'd apparently been texting. with two of the KiFi brothers. And there.

was one text that was reviewed by the. outlet reportedly says, "I knew this was. going to happen. The woman will always. get the short end of the stick. You all. aren't my friends. You all are covering. your asses." And then we get into the. November 3rd not consensual text that I. mentioned before. Okay, I'm going to. discuss how these apparent messages and. timing can be used by both sides here. and how there are two competing. narratives. But just to go back to the. timeline because again putting those. messages into the order of events is so.

important. I've referenced this before, but on November 7th is when Jane Doe. reportedly goes to the hospital for that. rape examination, but like I said, her. attorney claims the evidence was gone by. that time. The next day, November 8th, that is when Jane Doe reportedly goes to. the Cornell University Police Department. to report this alleged gang rape. And at. the same time, this fraternity, Ki, this. chapter is apparently suspended. Seven. men were also suspended by the school. And by the way, Cornell said that after.

its own internal investigation, ultimately two students were expelled. Two were suspended for at least two. semesters. One already had graduated, so. they're going to be more punishment from. the university. And two were found not. to be responsible for alleged sexual. assault. November 14th, 15th, this is a. critical period, too. This is when Jane. Doe apparently sits for a police. interview. Actually, she's interviewed. by a Cornell University police. investigator, a Title N investigator, a. victim advocate, and an adviser. And. according to CBS's review of a.

transcript of this interview, Jane Doe. reportedly said, quote, "I can say with. 100% confidence, I was raped." that. while she was okay with her initial. sexual encounter, saying quote, "Yeah, as much as I can be because again, I was. super drunk when I got there, but I was. pretty okay with all of this." But then. she acknowledged how she was quote. completely and totally incapacitated, that she felt coerced, that she had to. give in when multiple men forcibly had.

sex with her. And while she couldn't. remember certain details, she did. remember this quote, "I was being hit at. the same time, physically hit very, very. hard." So in this sixpage sworn. statement that seemingly was prepared. from the substance of this interview, Jane Doe reportedly says, quote, I had. become extremely uncomfortable with how. this night was turning out. So my. thought was, if I do ketamine again, maybe I will pass out. My thought was. that if I passed out and these men have.

sex with me, then they could have been. charged with rape at this point. And she. even reportedly described how she had to. hide under the covers as men came in, how she lost consciousness at around. 5:45 a.m. And authorities memorialized. this report, saying, quote, "A female. undergraduate student reported that she. was recently raped by 8 to 10 men at the. Ki fraternity house." And it was. reported that Jane Doe then recorded a. phone call to that friend that she went. to see that night. And in the recording. that was reviewed by ABC News, she.

apparently tells him that she spent time. in the emergency room and that she had. spent time in therapy because quote, "There's so much damage on my body and. my brain." Do you remember how any of. these guys walked in? And he apparently. responds, "The door was just unlocked. The party was sort of like crowded. There was nowhere else to go." So, not. referencing the Snapchat group thread, right, where there seemed to be the. allegation, the argument that there was. an invitation for members to come up and. have sex with her. That's the.

allegation. Jane Doe told him, quote, "If I wanted to take this somewhere, what you all did would be classified as. gang rape. You already knew when I came. in, I was 10 shots deep." He reportedly. responds in this phone call, recorded. phone call, "You did tell me you were. sober, by the way." You did. You said. you hadn't been anywhere. When asked how. she got into a threesome, he apparently. says, "So you you you come in, say hi, we start dancing for like maybe three to. five minutes, and then I pop the. question, you say yes." Then I remember.

like we didn't know who else to bring. So I go up to Redacted, who was on the. dance floor, too, and I pop the. question, and he's like, "Yeah, or yo.". And then we go upstairs when he. seemingly claimed that it's possible. that in the end they both misremember. how many people are in the room or what. happened. Jane Doe fires back saying no. because I remember looking up and being. like that is too many people. And in the. end it's been reported she apparently. recorded phone calls with at least three. fraternity brothers that that was all. turned over to investigators. But I also.

have to mention this before we talk. about the text messages and everything. It was reported by NBC News that an. anonymous Cornell student had helped. police with leads in connection with the. alleged rape of Jane Doe. This is after. the university issued a crime safety. alert for the alleged KiFi attack. This. student apparently went to speak to. police after she herself saw the. screenshots of that Snapchat group. conversation that I mentioned before. telling NBC about the police. They seem.

fairly competent. It seemed like a. normal interview process to me, but. look, what do we know? We know no. charges were ultimately filed. And the. student added, "The thing I think we all. feel like betrayed in regards to is that. like it wasn't handled. When we got the. police report, I think we all assumed it. was being, you know, it would be like. handled properly." Yeah. And it was like. in good hands. However, police records. do seem to indicate that police spoke to. several witnesses, that they received. tips. The problem is there is reporting.

that not all of the information was sent. over to the local prosecutor, Tomkins. County District Attorney Matthew. Vanhton. He determined that the. allegations didn't support criminal. charges at the time, but he has now. reopened this case saying he never saw. Jane Doe's interview transcript. New. York Governor Kathy Hokll has appointed. Attorney General Leticia James to be the. special prosecutor to investigate this. case. Hokll saying in a statement,

"Newly released information continues to. raise serious questions about the. investigation conducted by the Cornell. Police Department and the decision by. the Tomkins County District Attorney not. to prosecute an alleged sexual assault. on Cornell University's campus." And. then you couple that with what happened. last month that started all this. Two. years later after this alleged incident. at KiFi, Jane Doe files a lawsuit. against seven KiFi brothers and Cornell. Her lawyer says she had to drop out of. school. Lawyers for two of the.

defendants, they deny the accusations. And that is what brings us to the main. question today, the text messages. How. are they going to play into the criminal. investigation and also the lawsuit? I. have the perfect guest to talk about. this. I want to bring on John Cloon. He's a civil sex abuse attorney, former. prosecutor. He is recognized as one of. the nation's top sexual abuse attorneys. He has been successfully litigating on. behalf of survivors of assault and. harassment in courts, campus proceedings.

for nearly 25 years. He's been. recognized as one of the most. experienced and well-known lawyers for. survivors of sexual abuse and. harassment. Thank you for taking the. time, sir. Really appreciate it. Um, to. start with these text messages, there. are two ways that I see these texts. could be used, two different narratives, and you tell me what you think. One is. that yes, she was raped, that she was in. shock, that she didn't appreciate what. exactly happened to her immediately. Perhaps she was confused or manipulated.

by the feelings towards she had at least. one of these men. And even though she. said it wasn't illegal in one message. and that it was fine, maybe she really. couldn't appreciate it. She really. couldn't consent. Maybe she really. didn't know. And even if she did think. that she consented to the initial. encounter didn't mean that she consented. to everything else. The other narrative. that could be used that you may see is. she consented to it all. And because. everyone found out and in order to not.

be shamed, she claims that she was a. victim of drugging and raping. And this. seems to me, the two sides that you're. seeing online, this seems to me how both. sides would potentially use these text. messages, am I correct on how each side. would frame it? >> Yeah, I think that's right. And they're. both pretty compelling narratives. I. mean, I think there's a a pattern that. we're starting to see in this case of. explaining how, you know, disclosure is. really a it's a process, not an event. So, it can, you know, for somebody,

particularly when you have alcohol. involved, intoxication, the process of. going by the morning that you wake up. and maybe in denial, maybe wanting to. deny what happened, going from there to. a point where you're actually. comfortable with describing what. happened to you and that you were a. victim of sexual assault can take a. period of time. And these texts can be. consistent with that. We also have on. that side of the coin this young man. apologizing for how things went down. Something went down that he felt like he. needed to reach out to her and apologize. and say like this this wasn't cool. I.

know this wasn't okay. That's one side. of the coin, but you can't ignore the. other side that that you just said. I. mean, she is saying like, you know, nothing happened that was illegal and. like I was okay with what happened with. you. And, you know, you could see how a. defense attorney could really use that. in a in a strong fashion. And no matter. what, you know, no matter how we can. explain, you know, what these text. messages could mean for somebody who is. actually a survivor of sexual assault, you can't ignore the plain language of. it, a jury or a judge is going to have a.

tough time, you know, wrapping their. head around what the actual language is. in those texts. What about the timing? I. I gave our audience a whole timeline of. when she sent the text, what happened in. between the first round of text and the. second round of texts, how, you know, there was rumors, there was talk about. what happened at that KiFi house, and. that maybe changed the tone of what she. came for. But again, that goes to the. idea of, as I said, there's two. different competing narratives there. But do you think the timing of that and. what was happening in between, do you. think that matters? Well, I think one of.

the main defense themes is going to be. that um you know, she started calling it. a sexual assault because she started. getting shamed um and there was all. these rumors about her, you know, being. promiscuous or that sort of thing. And. that's when you start to see her um her. narrative change. That's a compelling. argument. I mean, I could see the other. side of this. That's like I said before, like this is part of the process of. going from that morning that you wake up. and not knowing what happened and not. wanting to believe that something awful. like a gang rape had occurred to the.

point where you actually are able to. accept what happened. Both could be, you. know, pretty compelling narratives. depending on who's who's pitching it. >> But I think for a prosecutor standpoint. or a plaintiff's attorney standpoint, you could say nothing changed. She was. consistent in both rounds, right? You. could say she liked this guy. Maybe she. wanted to have a a continued, you know, relationship with him or she. said, I you like you said, I consented. with what happened. But even in the. message where she's like, you know, to. smoke again with him, but just that that.

there's not five billion guys and I'm. not on ketamine would suggest there was. something there that she didn't like, that she wasn't comfortable with, that. she didn't consent. So, you could have. situations. I It's different, right? But. I first saw this, I think, mainstream in. the Harvey Weinstein case where somebody. could be sexually assaulted and yet. maintain a relationship or maintain. communication with the person who was. responsible for that or took part in it, you know, hid facts of it. There's. something true about that. Constant. communication and even positive messages.

towards someone is not the way we. recognize it 30 years ago. >> Yeah, absolutely. Continued association. with the offender is something that is. very common in sexual assault cases, particularly in a campus related case. like this where everybody's friends, everybody's part of the Greek system. Like you're going to continue to have. interactions with some of these people. And remember, this guy was comparatively. speaking the good guy of the group if. there was a good guy in in the group of. people that are, you know, committing a.

sexual assault. But his behavior is the. least egregious behavior out of all of. them. So her communicating like this. afterwards with him also she's probably. looking for information. Those sorts of. things are going to be very commonly uh. occurring in this type of a sexual. assault case. And a lot of times so. prosecutors will use expert witnesses. that are experts on trauma that will. explain how this kind of seemingly. counterintuitive behavior of continuing. to have contact with your offender is. actually something that's very normal. It helps victims kind of, you know,

regulate their response. it helps them, you know, kind of normalize like their. their trauma and maybe make it seem like. maybe was less egregious than it. actually was. So, not uncommon, but. still something that would definitely. need to be explained if a criminal case. ever went forward. >> And let me preface this next question as. we're having this conversation. I'm I'm. not taking aside one way or another. I'm. just trying to ask the appropriate legal. questions that will be asked in either a. civil case or a potential uh criminal. case. And let's be clear, none of these.

individuals have been, you know, criminally charged. they are innocent. unless proven guilty. If they are. charged, um there has been no, you know, finding from a lawsuit in terms of. liability. There's a separate. conversation about the university's. investigation, but consent can be can be. clicked on and off. In other words, someone in a sexual encounter can. consent to one thing, but then they. cannot consent to another. And I think. that's a really important distinction. because to me, and I was off last week, but I was reading about it and I was,

you know, reading people's comments. online. There seems to be this idea that. if she consented to, let's say, a. threesome, oh, she must have consented. to everything, whereas it can be a. little bit it could be more nuanced and. complicated. >> Yeah. I mean, you you at any point. during a sexual encounter, you know, man. or woman can say like, I'm I'm done. I. don't want any more of this. Um, so. consent can be, you know, determined at. any single point. And one thing that we. see in these kind of gang rape cases,

I've done a number of them at the. university level, is you have some sort. of interaction with somebody who is. somebody you're interested in, maybe it. starts off consensual and as that is. going along, maybe somebody else comes. in and it's almost it's a little. uncomfortable, but maybe you engage in. it, maybe you don't speak up, you don't. say anything. Then a third person comes. in and you don't know the third person. very well. And now it's like there's. three guys on this this one woman. That's when a lot of times like the. female starts to feel a little trapped, like they're not sure if they're safe.

anymore. Fourth guy comes in and now you. have this this room of of people that. are gang raping this young woman. It's. something that happens time and time. again in these college gang rape cases. >> How important are the recordings? I. don't know if you saw that came out. today. ABC News was reporting about it, these recordings where she recorded her. conversation uh with I believe the. person who uh and invited her there and. was part of at least one of these sexual. encounters and he um you know basically. says you told me you were sober um later.

through exactly how this parent. threesome happened said you know in. terms of other people coming oh the door. was unlocked and it was crowded didn't. seemingly reference the Snapchat group. thread um but she wrote and she was you. know really forcibly coming back at this. and saying, you know, basically I didn't. consent to all this. You know, all these. men coming in, I didn't know about this. Um, how important do you think those. recordings come when you when you couple. them also with the text messages that we. just talked about?

>> Yeah. know anything that is kind of more. tangible evidence is going to be. significant in a case because you know. the the the human mind doesn't love just. kind of like the and I hate this term. but he said she said mentality of it. where you have to kind of just weigh. people's credibility anything they could. actually latch on to so that the. Snapchat a screenshot is significant the. text messages are significant and then. these recorded conversations these are. things that a judge or a jury is going. to feel like okay here's something like. a substance that I can actually focus.

focus on. So I think that they they are. going to be significant but what the. motivation is behind them will certainly. be be questioned. >> Does it m in a typical case if all you. had were two people, one is saying one. thing, one saying the other. There's no. videos, there's no photos, there's no. DNA evidence, it's all about the. testimony, it's all about the. credibility. This one feels a little bit. more complicated because you have her. allegedly telling people immediately. after what happened. apparently of the. Snapchat communications, text messages, uh there's now video of the frat house.

Um. but also, it seems multiple witness. accounts, but there's a part of their te. their text conversations where they both. seemingly say there's a little fuzzy the. little fuzzy on the memories. There's. what she does remember, what she doesn't. remember. Also, that was enumerated that. that was really articulated, illustrated. in her uh police interview. How much is. that going to play a role in this? Yeah, I mean it plays a role in every, you know, college sexual assault case. I. mean, the the likelihood that you have. these cases where there's not fuzzy. memories in alcohol or drug consumption.

or that sort of thing is um it's a very. rare scenario where that's not a big. part of of what um what transpired. But. so it's significant, but there, you. know, depending on the facts of the. case, there's there's ways to deal with. it. In this case, there are I mean, in. in in many ways, it's more complex. because of the some of the things that. transpired afterwards, but also you have. more witnesses that that can give. information in this kind of a case than. the average. So, it's a bit of a wash. >> Let me ask you, generally speaking,

you've been following this case. We talk. about these text messages today. We talk. about the uh phone calls. Is this a gray. case? Is this black and white or is this. gray at this point? Because we're. wondering whether or not criminal. charges are going to be filed. We want. to know if this advances to a a a. fullblown civil trial, you know, would. the would anybody be found liable? Where. do you see it? >> I mean, it's it's a hard case. Um I. don't know that it's harder than any. other case of similar facts that that. I've worked on, but these are all hard.

cases. Um you know, you don't have you. don't have admissions. You have text. messages that can be interpreted. multiple ways. I mean, it's not that. it's not a winnable case, but it would. be it would be a difficult case to to. prosecute successfully. >> And is it significant to you that she. went to law enforcement and said, "I'm. 100% confident this happened to me.". >> It is. Yeah. I mean, she'll she'll be. questioned about when she went to law. enforcement and, you know, what happened. in between the original assault and.

going to law enforcement, but you know, it is significant. I mean, it's a it's a. it's a large step for somebody to take. to go to the police and accuse somebody. of sexual assault if you weren't. actually sexually assaulted or at least. you don't believe that you were actually. sexually assaulted. So, there is a. little bit of credibility that comes. from making that report. But again, it's. the, you know, defense attorney's job to. question that. >> Between the local DA and now the special. prosecutor, Leticia James, you think. criminal charges gonna be filed? I'd be. surprised if criminal charges were. filed,

>> even given the public pressure and. what's going on. >> I think so. I I mean, I think that what. I would hope happens is there is a a. solid and deeper investigation into what. transpired and then Leticia James makes. a a meaningful and thoughtful decision. that the public in general can feel like. um this really was given a fair shake. regardless of what the ultimate filing. decision was. But it we'll see what. happens. But I'd be surprised if the. case actually is filed. And it doesn't. mean there isn't benefit to her doing.

the review and doing further. investigation before making that. determination. >> And a couple things, I mean, they would. come out and basically say, you know, we've looked at everything and we do not. believe, this is what I imagine they. say, we do not believe that the uh. evidence currently supports criminal. charges. So, we wouldn't have a. successful prosecution. We do not. believe we can prove this case beyond a. reasonable doubt. Having said that, how. does this affect the civil case, the. text messages, everything? That's a. whole different animal, right? That's a. lower burden of proof. It's a different. kind of process. So, I imagine that case.

is going to progress. Do you think that. this would be a case where it would go. to a jury and there would be finding of. liability for the students, for the. university. >> So, you know, more so than criminal. cases, civil cases rarely go to trial. So, the likelihood is there's some. resolution of this civil case. Uh maybe. not soon, but um but down the road, but. it certainly is a much lower burden of. proof on a civil case. It's the same. burden of proof that Cornell used where. they actually made findings finding a. number of these young men responsible. for some or all of the the alleged.

behavior. So, it's certainly something. that is winnable on uh the civil level. The interesting thing about the um about. the the prosecution um you know what. they can do what Leticia can do in her. review is you know we had we had this. similar case maybe as 20 over 20 years. ago here in Boulder against the. University of Colorado and the. prosecuted a special prosecutor was. appointed and that special prosecutor. came forward and said we're still not. going to file charges but I'll tell you. like we don't have any concerns about.

the credibility of the victim and it was. a very healing process for both the. victim and a lot of people in the. community to go through that process. So. even if charges aren't filed, you know, there are could be some good things that. come out of this further investigation. >> You mean like a change in the law, the. change in what it means? >> It seems like in the state of New York, it would be helpful to get a little more. clarity. I'm putting that politely, a. little more clarity in when you're going. to be able to prosecute people for that. engage in voluntary intoxication. There. could be some changes that that have a.

long-term benefit as a result of this. case blowing up the way it has. Well, I'll tell you, I think uh in our comment. section on this case, when we talk about. these text messages specifically, I I. have a feeling there's going to be a. divide. There's going to be a divide in. people who either say this is this was. consensual or it was not consensual, this is real, it's not real. And I'm. curious to read them. I'm curious to see. because there's been a lot of debate and. public discourse over this and these. messages are only going to add to it in. a number of different ways. So, John. Cloon, thanks for taking the time. Really appreciate it, sir.

>> Bye, Jesse. Thanks. >> And that's all we have for you right now. here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so. much for joining us. Please like and. [music] subscribe. I'm Jesse Weber. Speak to you next time.