Shocking New Details Rock Mother, Son Murder Mystery

The 16-year-old suspect in a brutal. double homicide has just been charged. with murder, but in juvenile court. Could that change? Could he be charged. as an adult? What would that mean? And. we just learned new chilling alleged. details from authorities that could. change everything for this defendant. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and. Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. We have an update in a story that we've. been following since the beginning. A.

16-year-old, 16, has now been officially. charged with murder in juvenile court. for the killings of 44 year old mother. Jessica Lyman and her 8-year-old son, Eli Painter. This is out in Saratoga. Springs, Utah. This currently. unidentified teenager, because of his. age, is facing two counts of aggravated. murder, a first-degree felony, and one. count of obstruction of justice. This is. a seconddegree felony. And before we. even get into the legal ramifications, the complications of what this means,

let me just lay out for you this brutal. scenario as told by authorities. And I. will tell you, we actually have an. affidavit that is going to lay out these. alleged details. And and this is. significant. We have just learned. frightening frightening new allegations. that could change everything for this. case. And then I'm going to bring in. acclaimed Utah criminal defense. attorney, Sky Lazaro, to understand what. it means for this defendant to be. charged criminally in juvenile court.

What does this mean for a trial, an. evidence, potential sentence? Could this. go? Because I want to understand the. intricacies of Utah law. And and to be. clear, we're talking all about this and. I'm about to lay out these allegations. and these new alleged details even. though the defendant is innocent unless. proven guilty. Okay, let's talk about. it. So, we have this affidavit for a. search warrant for records and data that. are associated with a Vivven security. account for who appears to be Eli's. father. Electronic information, location.

information associated with seemingly a. device or devices. And it reads, quote, "On March 28th, 2025, at approximately. 10:11 a.m., officers with Saratoga. Springs were dispatched to the address. of. a female had called 911 and reported. that she had discovered two individuals. unconscious and covered in blood at the. above address. I have listened to the. 911 call and heard the following." The.

caller, later identified as Lyman's. daughter, Eli's sister, reported that. she entered the above residence that. morning after spending the night at her. father's home in Cedar Hills, and. discovered her mother, later identified. as Jessica Lyman, and younger brother, later identified as Eli Painter, lying. in a bed unconscious and bleeding from. their heads. She also reported that the. suspect, so then 15 years old, might. also be at the residence. And yes, this.

15-year-old, this then 15-year-old, currently 16-year-old, is Jessica's son. Horrifying. So, the affidavit goes on to say that. officers arrive. They find quote, "Jessica and Eli lying next to each. other on a bed in the master bedroom. from the foot of the bed. Jessica was. lying on the right side of the bed and. Eli was on the left. Both had blood on. and about their heads and faces and. blood was pooling on the bed below each.

one of their heads. Both appeared to. have been shot in the head with small. caliber round. Now, this is significant. A state of the bodies when they're found. gives you a timeline of when the. shooting happened. the circumstances in. which they were seemingly shot to death. in the head. You can make the argument. from prosecutors that this was. intentional, right? That this was. confined to a certain area. Now, the. affidavit goes on to say that Eli. apparently had no pulse, that he was. cold to the touch, that rigger mortise.

had set in, that Jessica's quote shorts. or pants were down around her knees, that authorities would later discover. that her underwear was pulled down. around her knees, too. They also say. that she gasped for a breath, that her. eyes rolled into the back of her head. So, one of the officers initiates CPR. EMS arrives. They initiate life-saving. measures. She's transported to the Utah. Valley Regional Medical Center, but in. the end, Eli was apparently pronounced.

dead at the scene, and Jessica died 3. days later on March 31st. The officers. start clearing the house, and that is. when they find this 15-year-old suspect. exit a bedroom door and enter the. hallway. They sit him down, and he. apparently asks what had happened. asks. multiple times, claims he was in his. room taking a nap, claims he didn't hear. anything, and when asked, this is key, when asked if any weapons were in the.

house, he apparently said he wasn't. aware of any guns inside the home. Now, that's interesting considering, you. think about the two victims here who. were shot and according to the. affidavit, no one had told him at that. point that anyone had been shot. Why is. he mentioning guns now? A defense. attorney can make the argument. You say. weapons, quick association, guns. They. search the home. They find two 22. caliber shell casings were found inside.

the master bedroom. The technicians find. what is believed to be seinal fluid on. the bed. During the initial search, they. also find apparently sex toys and. fishnet stockings both in Jessica's room. and this then 15year-old's room. They. also apparently find panties in his. room. Authorities also located in his. room quote an empty pillzner can in a. dresser drawer, two BB pistols, plate. carriers and magazine pouches, and a. quote handwritten note referencing.

several forms of forensic evidence. Specifically, the note mentioned. corology, DNA, and firearm testing. Additionally, detectives located a note. where this 15-year-old indicated that he. wanted to kill himself. KUTV2 reported that this note said, quote, "This is a murder story." You. could see why this would be significant. for prosecutors. I also don't want to. get too graphic here, but apparently. authorities also found what could be.

evidence of sexual contact on Jessica. Let's put it that way. So, authorities. take this teen to the police department. And this is where when according to. them, he kept asking for his cell phone. Even to the point where his father who. was there snapped at him and said, "Stop. worrying about your phone." And this led. authorities to believe that the phone. could tell them when he was awake or the. timeline of the shootings. Right? Because the phone could tell if.

someone's been active on it. Later on in. the affidavit, it explains how officers. collected multiple videos from nearby. residences between 2 and 3:00 a.m. Okay. The video shows a suspicious individual. who appears to be wearing a black and. white mask, a dark hoodie, shorts, long. black socks, and possibly slip-on shoes. or sliders. This individual appears to. be walking through the neighborhood. while clearly trying to avoid motion. activated Ring doorbell cameras. The. suspicious person is seen walking into.

the breezeway immediately north of the. residence where the incident occurred. In one of the first videos where the. suspicious person is observed, it. appears as if the individual is wearing. a backpack. Why is that significant? Well, later on on April 13th, 2025, according to the affidavit, a couple. that was walking their dog in the area. find a backpack. They call police. Quote, "Officer Sorenson found the. backpack was located in reads a few feet. from a walkway through a riverfront park.

area that is accessible to the public. Officer Sorenson did not observe anyone. who appeared to be looking for the. backpack while she was there and. suspected that the backpack was. abandoned or had been discarded there. Looking inside the backpack, Officer. Sorenson saw what she thought was a dark. hoodie and rubber gardening gloves. Officer Sorenson noted a red dried. substance on the gloves that she. believed could possibly be dried blood. Detective Morgan also observed a red. rustcoled dried substance on the rubber. gardening gloves that could possibly be.

dried blood. He observed that there was. also a black beanie style hat, a small. flashlight, a headlamp, and a black neck. gator style face mask that had a partial. white skull jaw printed on it. Upon more. closely inspecting the contents of the. backpack as well as the backpack itself, he noticed that appeared to have a large. amount of animal hair throughout the. backpack and on many of the items. This. animal hair was similar to the cat and. dog hair that was found throughout the.

residence where the homicide occurred. Furthermore, the black beanie style hat. also contained what appeared to be human. hair on the inside of the hat. The mask. also appears consistent with and or. looks similar to the mask worn by the. suspicious male seen on Ring doorbell. videos walking through the neighborhood. on the morning of March 28th, 2025. On. April 23rd, 2025, detectives served an. additional search warrant at the. residence where the homicides occurred. and found and seized several pieces of. evidence. One piece of evidence was a.

single right-footed black Nike slide. slipper. Detectives have observed the. 15-year-old wearing these shoes in. multiple pictures found on his phone, and they appear similar to the shoes. worn by the mass suspect seen walking. through the neighborhood on various. doorbell cameras. Detectives believe. that the 15-year-old and or a family. member might have removed the matching. left shoe. Going back to the suspect, the affidavit states, quote, "Through. search warrants obtained for his Discord.

activity, we have learned that he has. access to an old Samsung tablet that he. is using to communicate with friends. through the Discord app." Furthermore, detectives have learned that he has. communicated with friends and discussed. the homicides with his online friends. Detectives also found several. photographs taken by him of him holding. a black Glock 9mm handgun in his bedroom. at Mike's house. I think this is the. father's house during the period of time. when he was living at Mike's house. Detectives believe that this clearly.

shows that he had access to firearms. Now, something else. It is being. reported by ABC4 that the suspect, now. 16 years old, was examined by police. that they determined he had scratches on. his right shoulder, that his DNA was. found under one of the victim's. fingernails. Now, a defense attorney can. say, "Hey, they live together. It's not. unusual." But also, the outlet is. reporting that his DNA was also. allegedly found on the shorts that. Jessica Lyman was wearing. We've talked.

about that before, too, that the seinal. fluid found on the bed, which we. mentioned before, allegedly contained. this suspect's DNA. The outlet also. reports that gunshot residue, GSR, was. found on multiple items of clothing. associated with the suspect. And then. there's this, according to the outlet, that home surveillance footage from a. nearby home captures an argument or. altercation on March 27th with a woman. potentially consistent with Lyman's. voice screaming this 16-year-old's name.

and saying, "What are you doing?" And. that less than 2 minutes later, you can. hear three gunshots. Authorities believe. that the person in that video that I. mentioned before matches the make and. build of the suspect. court documents. saying, quote, "Based on the path of. travel in the surveillance video, as. well as time periods where the mass. figure is not visible, the 16-year-old. could have disposed of the murder weapon. in several locations, including the.

Jordan River, which is only a few. minutes walk from the home." ABC4 News. reporting that the suspect admitted to. police he had an argument with Jessica. Lyman that night. And then I got to talk. about the text messages. On April 2nd, police apparently got some critical. evidence from a forensic download of. Jessica's phone, and they found a text. message exchange or exchanges between. Jessica and her teenage son from the. summer before, so July 2024. Many of.

these messages are just too vulgar to. repeat here, but I'll give you an idea. Here are a few. Quote, "I don't like. you. Go away. Do you need to learn how. to shut your mouth? You're so bleeping. mentally ill. Do you know how. insignificant you really are to my life? Very insignificant. I wish I died in. your stomach. Wouldn't have to put up. with you. And this teenage suspect was. ultimately arrested on August 14th. And. now we have this development that I. mentioned at the top regarding the. charges. However, I will tell you.

according to the New York Post, the. prosecutors in this case say that it is. quote the state's intention in filing. this criminal information to bind the. defendant over to the adult district. court. So, let me bring in Utah criminal. defense attorney Sky Lazaro to talk. about this. Sky, thank you so much for. taking the time. This is an awful, awful. case. Um there's a lot of components on. it, but I want to start with what this. whole juvenile adult court uh issue. because I think it's pretty significant. So, how does it work in Utah whether.

this case will remain in juvenile court. or adult court? >> First of all, good morning, Jesse. This. this is a terrible, terrible case. Uh. Utah has a separate juvenile court for. minors who commit even very serious. offenses. As of right now, this kid is. charged in juvenile court uh with murder. and and a number of other charges. Uh. it's really up to the district. attorney's office uh whether or not they.

want to try to certify that to a. district court. Uh we do have a statute. here in Utah that allows prosecutors to. certain uh apply for a certification. uh in in really probably the most. terrible of juvenile cases to try those. people as adults. Uh there's a number of. factors that go into it. Uh the district. attorney's office here has said they. anticipate doing that, although I'm not.

sure if those filings have uh been. submitted to the court yet. What would be um the rationale from a. defense attorney or the court to say, you know what, I I hear what you want. prosecutors. I know you want to certify. this to district court. And we'll talk. about why they may want that, but what. would be the reasons they would say no, this this needs to remain in juvenile. court. >> There's a number of things I think his. defense team is going to lean on and a. court will consider as to whether or not. this case should remain in juvenile.

court or be certified over. One of those. is age. Uh if if the closer a person. gets an age to 18, the more likely it is. that something on a very serious nature. will get certified. The other thing. they're going to look at is mental. health issues. uh whether or not um or. developmental issues. um kind of where this kid is at. developmentally uh both mentally, education, those types of things because.

you don't juvenile court has has a way. of um really it's geared towards. rehabilitation more than it is geared. towards being punitive, especially here. in Utah. Uh and so once we get into. state court with charges like these, you. know, these are potential life in prison. uh if he's convicted of the any of these. uh first-degree felonies. So I would. think what we're going to see is a lot. of information or a lot of filings. probably under seal and if they're in.

juvenile court, we won't see them at. all. uh dealing with his uh mental. abilities, uh developmental abilities, uh anything sort of pointing towards. those types of mitigating factors. >> Yeah, let let's just focus on the. second. What is the difference between. adult court and juvenile court? Let's. start in terms of the punishment. You. talked being more rehabilitative. Are. you saying somebody who could be charged. with murder in juvenile court? Is there. a possibility that they wouldn't spend.

the rest of their life incarcerated? How. does it work in terms of the potential. punishments? >> So, juvenile court only has jurisdiction. over an individual until they turn 21. There are certain instances where they. can keep them a little longer or certain. cases where then they may be transferred. over to uh like a state prison system. But for the most part, um most people. aren't incarcerated in juvenile court. Even on even in serious cases, they they.

may do some time in some sort of secure. care facility, but it's really geared. towards uh being driven by juvenile. probation, providing services to kids, services to families, education, treatment, those types of things to help. get kids back on track. Uh so that's why. these cases where someone's charged with. murder and they're a juvenile are so. difficult is the juvenile court only has. jurisdiction for so long uh over an.

individual and then you know they really. could only keep them in secure care you. know up until I think it's 25 and then. they have to release them. >> So so now you're seeing for our audience. why it's so significant whether it's. juvenile or adult court. Um qu second. question, are the trials different? If a. trial happens in juvenile court, is it. different than an adult court? Is there. a jury when it comes to juvenile court? Is it only in front of the judge? Is the. evidence different with how it could be. presented? Are they two completely.

separate criminal pro um proceedings? >> And they are completely separate and. completely different. Juvenile court is. uh a bench trial before a judge. uh they. still have the same burden of proof. Uh. but actually they don't make guilt. findings. They they just call them, you. know, findings essentially uh of what. happened versus and and you don't have. the option of having a jury trial in. juvenile court. Uh it's a closed.

proceeding. It's not open to the public. Uh everything is sealed. Like nothing is. available to the public essentially. uh. that happens in juvenile court versus. when we look at adult criminal court. You know, we're seeing, you know, these. trials that are being livereamed as. they're happening. Uh everything is open. to the public. You have a jury uh or you. can elect a jury or a bench trial. So, they're very very different. The rules. of evidence uh are largely the same, but.

the juvenile court has its own body of. administrative governance as well. So, there's rules that apply in juvenile. court proceedings that may not apply or. apply differently in adult court. proceedings. >> Now, if this does get certified and goes. to adult court, what exactly could be. the punishment here? I I saw 25 years to. life in prison. Correct me if I'm wrong. on that with these charges, but also is. the death penalty a possibility here?

>> He is charged with aggravated murder. So, yes. Um, but the state has not. elected to seek that yet. We're not. quite to that point. So, I guess. procedurally what needs to happen is. they need to decide whether or not. they're going to stay in juvenile court. or adult court. If they stay in juvenile. court, the juvenile court uh guidelines. uh will decide what the sentence can be. and it won't be 25 years to life. If it.

gets certified to the district court, he's going to have uh this individual's. has the right to have a preliminary. hearing. And after that preliminary. hearing, which is our probable cause. hearing because we don't have grand. juries in Utah in state court, then the. prosecution can elect whether or not. they intend to seek the death penalty in. this case. So, it's not off the table. I. think it's highly unlikely, especially. somebody of this age, uh, for the state. to do that, but it is a possibility. So.

now let me ask you before we get into. the evidence and how you would. potentially defend a case like this. In. your experience looking at what you see. so far, do you think it's likely this is. going to be certified and moved to adult. court? >> Given what we know, which is very very. limited right now, I think there's a. possibility or a pretty good possibility. that this case could get certified to. the district court. Like I said, you.

know, we're not privy to this kid's. mental health records or what was going. on in the home or or other mitigating. factors that would, you know, lead a. court to want to keep this in the. juvenile court proceedings for those. types of reasons. Uh but but given. what's been put out there and and what. information we have, I I could see this. being certified. >> Okay. So, now let me ask you about a. defense here. He is innocent unless. proven guilty.

>> But I just laid out in my intro all the. alleged evidence that we seem to that. they seem to have right now against him. and gunshot residue, notes in the room, text messages, surveillance footage, um. uh forensic uh material, alleged. communications, uh eyewitness testimony. It feels like a. lot. If you were defending this case, where do you begin? Does the first thing. you try to do is to make sure some.

evidence doesn't even get into trial in. the first place? And what evidence would. that be? What arguments would you even. make? >> I think with every case, you start. there. You take a really close look at. the procedural ana analysis of all the. evidence collected in the case. How was. it collected? How was it stored? How was. it tested? you know, all of the things. that you can pick apart. from a just a pure procedural. They. didn't follow the rules standard. You.

know, they didn't follow the rules on a. search warrant. Uh things like that. So, there's always arguments to be made. there. Uh assuming, and that takes some. time. Do we need to retest things? You. know, are there other things that need. to happen in this case? assuming all of. that is not problematic. uh and it's coming in. You know, I think. this is probably one of those cases. where you start looking at a mitigation.

type defense. You know, how how do I get. my client through this if I can't keep. any of this evidence out? because the. evidence, the way they've stacked it up, at least in the probable cause uh. statements they filed, which I mean, we. all know those are all of their greatest. hits. They're not going to put anything. in there that's detrimental to their. case. It's going to be their strongest. evidence, right, that they have right. now. So, assuming that all of that is. true and you can't challenge it or you. can't keep it out, I really think this.

becomes a mitigation case. we really. have to start looking at this kid and. and what can you do to get him through. this process and still come out the. other side without spending the rest of. his life in prison. >> Do you mean mitigation. making it from murder to a lesser charge. like a manslaughter charges? Do you mean. a mental health defense in some way? >> Probably that's a possibility. You know, like I said, we don't know a lot about. this kid. Uh but I, you know, if I were.

defending this kid that while I was. looking at all the other uh procedural. aspects of the forensic part of the. investigation, you know, I'd start doing. a deep dive on him, you know, getting. his history, his mental health records, probably having new assessments done, hiring experts to take a look at him, uh. to see if there was something else going. on because, you know, this type of. behavior is it's not normal, right? despite for whatever reason it happened.

assume I mean and I'm assum we're we're. saying assuming it's him you know he is. presumed innocent but assuming it's him. the type of behavior displayed is is not. normal where you know he's just hanging. out in the house with it that's you know. that's not typical behavior of a of a. kid even a kid who gets themselves in. trouble or does something terrible so I. think there's probably a lot to look out. there in terms of a mental health. defense. this kid was probably struggling. We, you know, they provided a snapshot of.

some text message conversations between. him and his mom, uh, that were highly. charged. So, there was, I think, a lot. going on there that you could dig into. to try to maybe get either these charges. reduced or some sort of reduction on a. sentence. I I I think the two things. that stand out to me um since the last. time we talked about it because you know. we could talk about what he what he was. found in the house and the gsr but I the. notes in the room the text messages but.

I think that this new revelation about. this audio right the surveillance. footage capturing this audio of a woman. who you know arguably could be Miss. Lyman saying what are you doing saying. his name and then the gunshots right. after um you couple that with some of. this forensic material uh that has uh. been linked back to him. Um I I think. that this is why I think it's a it's a. strong case from the prosecution. But. you know um I don't know to me that.

seems the part that there's one aspect. to say well how do you know that's. really him and the surveillance footage. make and build the same the backpack. they tried to link the backpack back to. the room but I think it's that audio. that is going to be really really strong. for the prosecution. Do you agree? >> I do. I think the audio is going to be. hard to overcome, especially like you you highlighted. where she says his name. It it's clearly. there's something going on at that time. and then we hear the gunshot shortly.

thereafter. That's going to be, you. know, some of this is circumstantial. evidence that the surveillance video and. and what juries want to make of that. But anytime you have uh a video or an. audio captured in real time of what's. happening and you have the defendant. identified on the video, you're you hear. their voice or they say something or. somebody says something to them or calls. them by name. That's usually really. strong evidence and it's really hard uh.

to combat that evidence and and to. counter it or to come up with some sort. of other explanation because he said he. you know in his statement he said he was. sleeping uh and he didn't hear anything. and so you know his mom yelling at. somebody else you know I there's. arguments to be made there uh but it. seems at least the way it's presented. that I think that is probably fairly. strong evidence for the And I'm sure the. defense would say, "How do you know. that's really her voice? How do you know.

it's about that?" I also thought the the. comment from a responding officer that. when they asked him or allegedly asked. him, "Are there any weapons in the. house?" He goes, "There's no guns." And. they didn't even know, they didn't say. anything that there were gunshots, wounds, or anything like that. You could. see a building. So, look, this is we're. going to follow this one. We've already. been following it. This is a significant. development. Uh Skylazaro, thank you so. much for taking the time. It's always. good seeing you and I always appreciate. your insight on these cases. >> Thanks, Jesse. >> And that's all we have for you right now.

here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so. much for joining us and as always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple. Podcast, Spotify, wherever you should. get your podcast. You can also check us. out on NBC's Peacock as well. If you. want to follow me, X, Instagram, my. NewsNation Show, Jesse Weber Live, Monday through Friday, 11 p.m. Eastern. See you next time, everybody.