‘She Deserves to Die’: Accused Child Killer Tiffanie Lucas Slammed by Victim’s Stepmother

they were just they were great little. boys like I don't understand how someone. like just even knowing them could do. something like that a plea is entered. the judge rules on Bond and the reports. of a misidentified body we're talking. about the developments in the case of. Tiffany Lucas the Kentucky mother. accused of killing her two young sons. and we are discussing all of this with. the stepmother of one of these slain. boys welcome to sidebar presented by law. on crime I'm Jesse Weber.

we've covered this case extensively here. on sidebar the case of 32-year-old. Tiffany Anne Lucas who is currently. behind bars in bullet County Kentucky. after her two sons 6-year-old Maurice. Baker Jr and 9-year-old Jaden Howard. were found shot in her home a bullet. County Sheriff's detective Richard Beal. testified during a recent court. appearance that two neighbors a husband. and a wife called 911 after hearing. gunshots back on November 8th he'll.

explained that after reviewing nearby. doorbell footage you can hear four. gunshots that were fired within 30. seconds and then about five minutes. after the last shot Lucas leaves the. home yells for help even tells a. neighbor that her kids were dying that. neighbor apparently ran inside and tried. to help the boys the boys were rushed to. a children's hospital but sadly they. both died when police got there Lucas. allegely was lying in her neighbor's. driveway she told the cops that the. shooting was an accident that she said. someone had given her a gun but she said.

that she would never have done something. like this unless someone quote. manipulated her to add to that detective. Beal testified that Lucas quote made. statements that she was being. manipulated through Facebook through the. internet or through Wi-Fi Now on Monday. Luca appeared in court again this time. pleading not guilty to two counts of. capital murder and the judge also asked. her about an. attorney ma'am you are before the court. for arraignment do you have an attorney. to represent no do you wish to apply for.

appointment of an attorney sure yes yes. sir the judge upheld her $2 million Bond. and announced a trial date will be set. for early 2024 Lucas will have a status. Hearing in January to find out who. exactly from the public defenders office. will be representing her and then an. actual trial date will likely be set at. a pre-trial conference scheduled for. March all right so with all of that in. mind joining us today to talk about. these latest Court developments but more. importantly to talk a little bit more.

about Maurice and Jaden is Michelle rice. six-year-old Maurice's stepmother and. Michelle I told you this before we came. on air first of all been following the. case from the beginning I've heard what. you have to say about it I can't tell. you how much we appreciate you coming on. to talk about this case in the middle of. everything going on but I just want to. say again I am so sorry for what you. have lost I'm so sorry for what your. family is going through it's. unimaginable um and in the midst of this. to come on to talk about I know is not.

easy so we very much appreciate. it no the first thing I just want to ask. is how you doing how you doing how's the. family doing. um. we're okay um you know it's a big change. on all of us um so unexpected. um it's just I really can't put into. words you know how much it's affected us. and and things like that.

um we talk about it all the time still. we think about it all the time it's. just I don't think it'll ever kind of. change it'll be the same for us you know. from the way it is now before we even. get into any of the case or what's going. on I look at the pictures of these boys. Maurice and Jaden and they look like the. sweetest most innocent boys they look. like they were so full of life the one. thing that we haven't been able to. understand is just who they were what. they were like like so what were Maurice.

and Jaden. like they were um sorry no it's okay I. understand. um they were the sweetest little boys um. they were so polite they were happy they. both um they did both love playing the. video games and stuff like that little. Reese he loved we call him little Reese. um um he loved playing soccer and loved. playing outside and riding his bike and.

stuff like that um they were just they. were great little boys like I don't. understand how someone like just even. knowing them could do something like. that. like there's no it's so hard for me. sometimes to explain or talk cuz it's. just so not understandable like and look. it's also fresh I mean this just. happened so it's completely. understandable what was your. relationship uh like with them what did.

you guys do together how often did you. see. them um. so I saw him um I was around since he. was born we saw him as much as she led. us um it was always an issue with her it. was never normal um Tiffany you mean. Tiffany Tiffany yeah um the pickup and. drop off was never normal the times were. never consistent it just things were her. with her just they weren't normal. nothing was normal.

she kept him from so much things we used. to try to do for him birthday parties. Christmas um during those times she. would purposely keep him um we threw big. birthday parties for Christmas time she. he wouldn't get his present till valent. till around Valentine's Day um so when. we did get him we would try to keep him. you know for as long as we could before. she you know went into whatever crazy. stage she would go into you know um a.

lot of people see the social media side. of her and that's just the so social. media side it's not really how she was. you know off the camera you know versus. how like personal relationship you would. see her really act or see the crazy side. of her so when you say that youan. because I remember like there was a. photo that she posted of her and the. kids like on Halloween right before this. you're saying that was all an act.

definitely she did things because she. wanted people to see her as a certain. way but that's not really how she was. that's just how she wanted to be seen as. you know like on social media nobody. really knew you know behind the scenes. of her like her drug issues um she never. had a job she never worked things like. that like um the boys were taken from. her.

previously um when they were when they. were smaller um do drugs things like. that um but they were giving back you. know the court we tried to reach out to. CPS they let us down um they didn't. follow up they said what we said wasn't. strong enough drugs um leaving the kids. at home by themselves things like that. um but they you know they wouldn't. follow up with things like that and. these boys were you know two three four. they're only three years apart so they.

were very young during this time that we. were reaching out to CPS things like. that they did nothing nothing has CPS. reached out to you since this has. happened because I know that's been a. big point of conversation that they. apparently didn't do enough yeah they no. they have. not do you plan on taking any kind of. legal action against them um possibly um. yeah we we're we're we probably.

will you mentioned the fact that uh. Lucas wouldn't allow the boys or. wouldn't allow Maurice um to to see you. or to hang out with you guys and to do. what was her justification did she just. not pick up the phone did she go to the. door you go to the door and she just. wouldn't answer I mean or did she say. I'm not allowing him to come out of the. house for whatever reason like what why. would she not allow him to see all of. the above there was no there I mean.

there's no reason he had I mean he had a. home here he had a room here he has. family here um he has a father he has me. he has his little brother here she. didn't want him to have a relationship. with his little brother she just she. really like tried to to take really like. as much away from reys as she could she. was very very selfish very selfish it. was never about like making Reese. happier or what um you know could have.

made reys Happy it was more about what. she was happy with or what she didn't. want him to have or what she didn't want. him to experience with us I'm going to. ask you the big question here why do you. think this happened I mean if she really. did this you talked about the drug. issues you talked about the did why. would she kill her own children I honest. I can't tell you why but I would say. just out of selfish reason she was she's. she was competent she she was very aware.

of what she did she knows what she did. even the emotions she shows no. emotions um she goes on camera she has. that's that same look is that same look. she always has that that nasty just you. know she's she's not a person you can. really get along with consistently she's. very. inconsistent um did she ever give any. indication she didn't didn't want to be. a.

mom. um she get alongs so indication not. literally saying I don't want to but. there was times where yes she um. wouldn't when maybe it was her time to. get little Reese back she wouldn't pick. up the phone or um you know she would. like I said be on drugs and be gone for. a month at a time and wouldn't pick up. the phone so there there's things that. kind of like she she had options he had.

family he had us he had you know she. just didn't want anything good for him. you know because it was about her not. not him she she's come out and said uh. through the detective who testified that. you know she allegedly said this was an. accident that someone gave her a gun. that she was in a bad spot that she was. manipulated what do you make of those. claims um excuses just something to say.

cuz to me that like an accident um like. that there's no AC how you don't there's. no accident like you can't accidentally. do that there's two two of your baby. boys that you intentionally killed you. went to the neighbors you told them that. like she was competent she knew exactly. what she did and I I believe that's what. she wanted like she knew did do you have.

any idea what she's talking about that. she was manipulated through Wi-Fi or the. internet or Facebook or whatever that. means I have no idea what that could. mean. honestly what about the fact that she. had this gun like do you know where. where she would have gotten it from or. anything because she said someone gave. it to her um I believe probably one of. those guys maybe she dealt with like I. said she didn't have a job or anything. so her ways of making money or you know.

escorting ways whatever you know maybe. something like that you know you you. know that she she was escorting to make. money yeah pretty much yeah she never. had a job I mean how else do you make. money without a job you. know um did you ever did you ever see. anything like this do did she say any to. anybody that she was doing this she yeah. she um we've seen like um um things like. that I believe she left her email up.

before um and she left her email up on a. computer she was using and and it was in. her emails and stuff like that um and. it's it's known you know like people who. know her. know things like that do she have any. mental health issues other than drug. abuse anything you know about. no and and and you've talked about the. concerns um you spoke to CPS you said. that she was abusing drugs and just to.

reiterate their response sounds. incredibly inadequate and un I mean why. what else did they need and and let me. go back you said the kids were taken. away from her at one point why were they. taken back why were they taken away and. how did she get them back they were. taken away she obviously she tested. positive for drugs um and she got them. back you there's ways you know to work. the system of course and she worked the. system them and she got them back and.

then there was no followup which I don't. understand either because if they they. would have then I'm sure they would have. found something their living conditions. inside the house were crazy I never. would have thought that it looked like. that. honestly um but it looked horrible it. looked really. bad did Reese or Jaden ever say anything. to you that they're concerned about. their mom they're worried about where. they're living anything that they talked.

about their mom in any way or no so when. little Reese was little you know as as a. young child you don't really know what. not to say so he was the one that was. letting us know like he was being left. at home with just his brother or um. being left alone in the car um with his. brother and Mom locks the car you know. things like that so um. we we were aware of things you know then.

things she was into and things like that. so it was it's not like oh this we kind. of know her background we not kind of we. know her background and stuff like that. so did you ever have the chance to. confront her about what's been going. on. no um you I I understand you were in. court um this past week uh when she was. brought in um what did you make of her. demeanor careless to me she looks like.

like yeah I did it and like you know she. has that eyebrows raised you know. selfish look on her face and that look. has since I used to pick up and drop off. with little Reese that's her that's her. look always very nasty she it was. never easy you know dealing with her or. anything like that ever so Michelle as. I'm sure you know um she's charged with.

two counts of capital murder she could. be eligible for the death penalty if. she's convicted is that something that. you would want most definitely anything. less would be a slap on the. wrist most. definitely. and it's it's you know this this trial. if it goes to trial it's going to be a. process it's going to be a long process. unless she sometime somehow takes a deal. if a deal was offered uh for life in. prison um but you know that it doesn't.

go to trial would that be something that. you would accept or you would tell the. prosecutors this is you know not. something that we're okay with no we we. want the death penalty that's that's. what we want she deserves to die like. definitely Michelle I I have to ask you. about this other aspect um as if this. case you know wasn't heartbreaking. enough we're hearing that there was some. sort of mixup between the Children's. Hospital in the coroner's office.

regarding ree's body can you talk to us. what happened here so for some reason um. Reese's little Reese um side of the. family wasn't given the opportunity to. identify the. bodies and so when we had private. arrangements for little. Reese when we went in it was. jayen laying there. and little Reese's you know attire and.

casket and and everything like that and. um we called the coroner um and for. somewhere which we're not getting. information back and forth back and. forth we're not getting good information. on this um we don't know you know who. identified them first off and why they. were tagged. you know what information was put on.

them why it happened that way yeah. because nobody can identify them but the. family I mean nobody else would know. them you know yeah so so the way I. understand is the coroner's office told. local media wave news that it's on. children's hospital Norton Children's. Hospital it's their responsibility to. tag the boys correctly before they go to. the coroner the hospital told wave that. they didn't know how this happened and. they're looking into it what do you make. of that it doesn't make sense because I. don't understand why we weren't given a.

chance to identify his body because. there's the mistake so whatever process. there is for the family to identify the. body it was skipped it was it wasn't it. wasn't taken seriously they just I don't. know how how do you just say this is him. and this is him without no you don't. know them. like you can't just identify a a person. and you don't know.

them the steps weren't taken. properly have you eventually had the. opportunity to see. Reese yes yeah so that day they did take. care of that and we did um handle get. them getting them switched. back just another again I'm so sorry you. had to go through that as well um look. Michelle I don't want to take too much. more of your time this is incredibly. difficult to talk about um what what do. you want everyone to know um as this.

case progresses um and clearly talking. about Ree and talking about Jaden as a. way to keep their memory alive and I. like the opportunity to talk more about. them and who they were um but what would. you like people to know uh as this story. continues I just want everyone to know. that they were sweet little boys they. didn't deserve it and that she deserves. the death penalty for this because. there's no reason behind um them not. being able to be here and celebrate.

Christmas today with us and you know go. to school and live their life now. Michelle my understanding is there's. something that you're doing in Reese's. memory. right yeah so for his kindergarten class. we're um getting the boys and girls some. Christmas gifts and we're giving um. throwing like um we're calling it a. Reiss day for him um because we know. like how much he loved going to school. and he loved his friends and things like.

that so um we're going to do a day for. them and give them Christmas gifts and. stuff like that that's amazing that's. amazing yeah um it's uh always an. incredibly difficult thing but. especially now during the holidays. coming up I can only imagine how. difficult it is for you and the families. um Michelle rice thank you so much for. coming on talking more about this and I. just want you to know that I am sending. my best wishes to all of you right now. um as you uh go through with this but. thank you so much much no problem thank.

you and that is all we have for you. right now here on sidebar everybody. thank you so much for joining us please. subscribe on Apple podcast Spotify. YouTube wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber speak to you next. [Music]. time.