Secret Messages Surface in Utah Mom’s Murder Mystery

For nearly a year, the killings of a. Utah mother, Jessica Lyman, and her. eight-year-old son, Eli, have remained. shrouded in unanswered questions. But. now, newly unsealed search warrants are. focusing on Jessica's 15-year-old son, exposing what police say may [music]. have happened after the killings. And. this includes a digital trail, private. online conversations, [music] and a key. piece of physical evidence that police. say they found on his clothing. We are. going to break it all down with a. [music] retired police commander.

Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and. Crime. I'm [music] Jesse Weber. By the way, real quick, you know what's. disturbing? That a total stranger online. can find out anything about your private. life and maybe use it against you. Your. name, your phone number, your address, it's all out there. Which is why I want. all of the people that follow Cybar to. keep your data safe online. Our sponsor, Incogn. all those old posts and search sites. exposing your information and then they. demand its removal. Look, I was shocked. Turns out databases had all my.

information and within days, Incogn was. taking them down. The setup is simple. You just create an account and Cognney. is going to do the rest. Plus, their new. unlimited plans custom removals feature. lets you submit specific links that. their privacy experts will personally. investigate and remove. So, if you care. about staying safe, take your privacy. back with Incogn. Go to. incogn.com/sidebar. and use code sidebar for 60% off an. annual plan. We're going back to Utah. for a lot more information that was just. revealed through warrants in the. horrible case, the killings of.

44year-old Jessica Lyman and her. 8-year-old son Eli Painter, who were. found next to each other, shot to death. in their own town home. And it was. Jessica's daughter who made this. horrific discovery. Now, here's the. thing. Jessica's teenage son was inside. the home telling police he'd been. asleep, that he hadn't heard a thing. But the problem with that is there is. new evidence. The problem with that, and. that's what we're going to get into, there is more information that is coming. out. You know, one of the things that we.

have to talk about too, is there were. apparently stomach churning text. messages from this son to his mother. And now we're learning about handwritten. notes that police say they found in his. room. notes that read, "Fire testing, DNA, and quote, "This is a murder. story." And remember, there have been no. arrests. There have been no identified. suspects in this case. So, before I go. into more about what these newly. unsealed search warrants tell us, and. I'm talking an alleged secret online.

account, urgent conversations, a key. piece of physical evidence, these. specific repeated apparent demands from. the teen maybe raised red flags for. investigators. Before I get into all. that, again, no one has been charged in. this case. That is a remaining question. And police again have not named any. suspects. Apparently, they haven't even. found the gun connected to the. shootings, which we may have more. information about right now. Quick recap. before we get into everything. We're. talking about March 28th, 2025. We're in. this quiet town home in Saratoga.

Springs, Utah. This is during the. morning hours around 10:00 a.m. Jessica's daughter, so this is Eli's. sister, comes home. There's some. reporting indicating that she's a. teenager. We couldn't officially confirm. what her exact age is. Seen some. reporting that she was 17. But police. say she walks in and she finds something. that no one should ever see. Her mother. Jessica, her little brother, Eli, found. in a bedroom. They're unconscious. They're covered in blood. The teenage. girl calls 911. And on that call, she's. hysterical. She told 911 that her mom.

and brother were bleeding badly. She was. worried her brother might still be. inside. Didn't know what was going on. with him. police, the paramedics, they. rush to the scene and what they reported. finding was devastating. They find Eli. Eli is pronounced dead at the scene. Jessica was barely clinging to life. They started CPR, rushed her to the. hospital, but she died. Both appeared to. be lying next to each other in the same. bed and had been apparently shot in the. head with small caliber rounds. This is.

according to authorities. Now, while. paramedics were fighting to save. Jessica, police were back at the. family's home clearing out the house. And that is when, according to the. officer's accounts and the warrants, they find Jessica's 15-year-old teenage. son who reportedly came out of a. bedroom. Now, we're not going to. identify him for purposes of this, but. we're just going to say 15-year-old son. The officers brought him downstairs to. the living room. They sat with him, and. according to the police report cited in. the warrant, he started asking the. officer what happened. Asked repeatedly. what happened. Now, the teen, police.

say, told them he was in his room, he. was taking a nap, said he didn't hear. anything. But here's the thing. An. officer's report notes that when asked. if there were any quote weapons in the. home, the teen specifically replied he. wasn't aware of any guns. So, seemingly. before he knew there was a shooting, before he knew what was going on, before. anybody had mentioned a gun, you could. argue that's an odd thing to say. Now, many people might say, "Hey, you talk. about a weapon, I assume you mean a. gun." But something to think about. And. as I said, no murder weapon has been.

recovered in this case as of yet, but. police still ended up finding a lot. more. They ended up finding crucial. potential evidence on this teen that. they say was from the morning of the. killings. And we're going to get more on. that in a bit. Now, in his apparent. messy bedroom, detectives reported. finding disturbing items like a. handwritten note that was listing types. of forensic evidence, DNA, firearm. testing, and there was another note that. apparently simply read, "This is a. murder story." They also apparently. found text messages between this son and.

his mother from earlier on, maybe even. months earlier that I got to just. highlight a few here. Quote, "I don't. like you. Go away. [clears throat] Do. you need to learn how to shut your. mouth? You're so bleeping mentally ill. Do you know how insignificant you really. are in my life? Very insignificant. I. wish I died in your stomach. Wouldn't. have to put up with you." And now we. have these newly unsealed documents and. they show how investigators took a. dramatic turn in this investigation. because their focus shifted sharply onto. the alleged digital behavior of this.

15-year-old and his digital life. Specifically, what they say he might. have been doing and saying online and. that is really really key. And then I. just have to highlight something else. about digital evidence. Surveillance. footage. Quote, "Officers collected. multiple videos from multiple residences. in the area of Willowbrook Lane and. Silvercrest Road between approximately 2. and 3:00 a.m. The video shows a. suspicious individual who appears to be. wearing a black and white mask, a dark. hoodie, shorts, long black socks, and.

possibly slip-on shoes or sliders. This. individual appears to be walking through. the neighborhood while clearly trying to. avoid motion activated Ring doorbell. cameras. The suspicious person is seen. walking into the breezeway immediately. north of the residence where the. incident occurred. In one of the first. videos where the suspicious person is. observed, it appears as if the. individual is wearing a backpack. And. police said that a mask resembling the. one on the surveillance video was found. inside a bedroom at the family's home.

Quote, "The mask was white and brown. It. resembles the mask that is seen on the. video recordings that neighbors. previously provided to law enforcement.". But again, this teenager has not been. charged with any crime. Police have not. publicly named him nor anyone else as a. suspect. But we're discussing the. investigative steps and the evidence. that detectives laid out in these. warrants to justify searching a digital. life here. Okay. So, to help us. understand what these warrants reveal. about maybe where this investigation is. going, will there be an arrest, I want.

to bring on a special guest. I'm joined. by Mike King, retired police commander, host of Profiling Evil, author of Wolves. and Sheep's Clothing, and something else. that I got to mention about Mike, and. this is important. So, there's something. called Gardens of Evil. It's dropping. February 3rd. The proceeds are going to. benefit Child Victim Advocacy Programs, Law Enforcement Endowment at Weber State. University. Mike, if you could tell us a. little bit more about that before we. begin, I think that's an important uh. thing you're doing. >> Oh, thanks, Jesse. Well, it's actually. built on upon my book uh deceived, an.

investigative memoir of the Zion Society. cult. We've talked about that before, but uh Gardens of Evil is actually a. seven-part episode that includes the. investigators who worked that case many. years ago. If you remember, we used 70. police officers when we raided that. compound and took those 32 children into. protective custody. It includes many of. the survivors of this case that are now. 45 and 50 year old women who were. rescued from the grips of this cult and. its leader. 12 people went to prison.

And uh when we were invited to do the. podcast, we worked out a deal where we. said, "Listen, we're happy to do it, but. we want the proceeds to go to benefit. the people who were victimized in the. first place and help law enforcement. officers know how to better investigate. these kinds of crimes because ritual. crime is just an incredibly difficult. case.". >> Yep. Um and it's one of the more. disturbing ones that you can cover. Uh. really good work that you're doing. there. It's important. Um, I want to go. to this case, which is, you know, also.

very disturbing. Um, particularly in. light of the new information that's out. of the search warrant, so we're going to. go through a lot of it. Are you. surprised there hasn't been an arrest? Are you surprised that there hasn't been. a named suspect as of yet? >> Yes, I really am. And I I guess I'm also. a little bit surprised that they haven't. released more information about a few of. the people involved in this story, particularly the 15-year-old son. Is he. being held in protective custody. somewhere? Is he under the care of a. family member that is making sure that.

everything's going on? Is he in mental. health counseling? All of that has got. me a little bit disturbed. But in the. same light, law enforcement's only going. to have one dip at this thing. And so, they've got to get all their ducks in a. row and make sure they have a case that. they can move forward with. But I. suspect from that from the very. beginning, they had a pretty strong. indication of where the case was going. to go. >> Now, there's a lot that they went. through. They go through apparently uh. this son's chat GPT history, which we're. going to get into. They even tried to do.

a credit report. Um so I want to go into. the new warrants, look at the apparent. digital trail the police say they. uncovered. And the affidavit's claim. that this teen, this son, created. allegedly a secret new Discord account. to talk to an online love interest of. some kind and that was frustrated that. this person hadn't researched the. murders, researched the killings. He. then allegedly discussed case details. Mike, just real quick, what is the. investigative value of that? I mean, in. today's day and age, chat GPT, uh,

Discord messages, online messages, how. important are that to building a case? Well, you know, we've talked about this. before in the past about the idea that. before a crime is physically acted out, it's kind of mentally created or. spiritually created or fantasized is my. favorite way of kind of referring to. these kinds of things that somebody has. replayed how this crime is going to. occur over and again in their mind. They've worked through it. Maybe they've.

socialized a little bit with this. private Discord account or they've. tested the water with people of how. would you feel about something like. this, but there's a fantasy process. And. the amazing thing about fantasy is that. reality. never is as cool as fantasy is. And so. when somebody finally acts it out, that's where we see people kind of go. into crime scenes organized and thinking. clearly. But then as the crime starts to. unfold, we see things falling apart cuz. it's just not matching what the fantasy.

was all along. So I'm really interested. in these kinds of documents, this. digital trail to see if it somehow. places or or pre uh pre-delivers what. the what the crime is going to be. Let's. go into that so we can see the specific. steps that investigators laid out here. because the warrant explains that. through looking at the teen's activity. on Discord or this alleged activity, detectives discovered that this person, this teen had some sort of online. romantic relationship with someone using. the username spazzy lol spazzyl spazzyl.

l. And after the killings, police say. that he was desperate to regain contact. The warrant reads, quote, "The. 15-year-old repeatedly told police CJC. case workers and family that he wanted. his phone to speak with his friends. regarding the homicide on March 28th, 2025. Detectives have learned that the. 15-year-old is extremely invested in his. friendships with online friends. His. communication with his friends, specifically Spazzy, will help. detectives to better understand what.

occurred. Now, police say he did. reconnect using a new account and the. warrant includes what they call a. critical exchange from April 28th. So, this is the month after the killings. Kana, I guess that's the best way to. explain it. Canai, who police believe is. the 15-year-old team, messages Spazzy. and shares his frustration that Spazzy. has not bothered to research what. happened on March 28th, 2025. Spazzy. then quickly agrees to research the. incident. Spazzy then continues to. discuss what he has learned about the.

case with Kenny. At one point, Kenny. questions whether one of the details. presented by Spazzy is true. At the very. least, Kenny expresses knowledge of the. case details and seems to question. details that may not be true. Mike, that. is so unclear. And again, I have to be. honest, a lot of these warrants don't. have the full picture. There's only so. much information they were able to. obtain. What is the value of a. conversation like that? Does that. provide any clues to you? Well, again, to me, what it does is it. starts to lay some groundwork of the.

possibility that there was some online. grooming going on. And again, we don't. know if Spazzy is male or female, 50year-old or 15year-old. What we do. know is that these conversations were. going on. And to the extent of. understanding where we are today versus. where we might be when this thing goes. to trial, I hope what we discover is. that there's something that suggests. that there's a buildup to this homicide. that there there's conversation that. says, "I don't think you dare do this or.

that.". >> But the idea that this teenager was. concerned that his friend wasn't looking. into the case and talking about the. case, you know, it's not I don't really know. Again, I'm confused as to what that. might mean. Does that mean like he could. be completely innocent, right? Have. nothing to do with this and say, "You. didn't even bother to look what happened. to my mother and brother, or is it. something more suspicious?" Again, I'm. just a little confused as to what it. could mean. >> Yeah, boy. I don't know, Jesse. I don't. have any real opinion on it other than. what it might point to is that someone.

out in cyberland was grooming multiple. people. Maybe not even keeping it and. may not have actually known this. particular suspect as well as he thought. that they might know him. It may have. been one of many and he's just having a. hard time keeping things together. But. but I'm with you. I it's just leaving. too much question. I think this is a. really important piece of evidence, physical evidence that anchors much of. this digital search or digital data. It. comes from a lab report, okay? And it. has to do with some evidence suggesting.

that a gun was fired. So, according to. the warrant affidavit, it says, quote, "Detectives have previously sent the. clothing that the teen had been wearing. when originally contacted by law. enforcement on the day of the homicides. The lab report received from Microtrace. Lab indicates that gunshot residue or. GSR was present on his clothing. It. should be mentioned that during the. searches of the residence, no ammunition. and or firearms were located in the. residence and investigators still have. not located the weapon that was used in.

the homicides. Detectives are unaware of. any possible reason or explanation of. why GSR would have been present on the. teen's clothing. Now, Mike, you couple. that with what I mentioned earlier that. apparently the first conversation this. teen had with investigators when they. said, "Is there any weapons in the. house?" indicated there was no gun. So, you know, it's a weird thing to say gun. because he didn't really maybe he claims. he didn't know what was going on. So, why would you say gun? You didn't even. know a shooting occurred. Maybe it was. just he thought weapons and equated it. with gun. So, by coupling all that.

together, that feels pretty compelling. evidence. >> I would have to agree. and and I've. tried to lean on the side of caution by. thinking that okay maybe weapon does. equate to a gun but but again in this. circumstance that's really intriguing. because of the gunshot residue on the. clothing the fact that spent casings are. recovered inside the room and most. importantly that the victims died of. gunshot wounds all of those are really. interesting but I think there also are.

some other digital searches that support. this same kind of a a focus on the. weapon. >> how long Can GSR remain on someone's. clothes? For example, if it was not from. that shooting, but let's say he gone I'm. not suggesting he did this, but if he. went to a shooting range or he fired a. weapon somehow weeks earlier, months. earlier, I mean, if the clothes aren't. clean, let's say, uh, because there was. allegations that the room was quite. dirty, how long can GSR stay on. clothing? You know, you know, I don't. know, Jesse, but I I do know that what.

they're doing is recovering particles, and if it's gunpowder particles, I would. assume that that could last an awfully. long time and would be the perfect. defense to say, "I was out on the range. a week earlier.". >> Again, I'm not saying that he was on a. range. I'm just I'm curious just. thinking about that. Now, I will also. say, okay, so what happened to the gun? Right. Well, detectives, they look at. this teenager's phone. They see that he. allegedly subscribed to Telegram, which. is, you know, has been considered to be. kind of like a secure communication. service. This is according to the uh. Warren affidavit. And this leads to a.

specific digital lead because this is. where they saw apparent messages about. someone, can't say it's the team for. sure, but someone offering quote a dirty. gun for sale. Now, Mike, if that's the. case, is there any way that they would. ever be able to find that gun again or, you know, talk to me about what you. think about that? Cuz again, they. haven't been able to recover that, but. is there a way that you could sell the. gun and it would never be able to be. recovered by law enforcement? >> Well, well, yes. I mean, we have.

evidence that law enforcement was. searching the nearby Jordan River, which. is just kind of a meandering, slowmoving. river through the Salt Lake Valley. That. would suggest to me that they wonder or. they're appining or they might even have. evidence that suggests that he threw the. weapon into the river and recovering a. small piece of metal in the bottom of. that murky river would be very. difficult. So I think they have to take. that into account. a a dirty gun also. kind of points towards some of the. staging in my mind that might have been.

going on by purchasing a dirty gun, which would in essence mean maybe a. weapon that's been used in a crime. somewhere else before is stolen, has. serial numbers rubbed off of it or. grinded off of it. A dirty gun could. then be tied to other kinds of crimes. which would take the investigation away. from someone on the inside, a more. intimate type murderer than uh somebody. on the outside breaking into the home. So, I think it also helps with the. entire staging of this crime.

>> So, you have potential GSR on him, no. gun found, potential evidence he was. looking at a marketplace for an illegal. firearm. Odd statement about saying. there was no gun in the house. And then. I also have to just mention, Mike, going. back to something uh from before, the. mother and son were in the bed together, shot in the head. I mean, that seems to. be very targeted, very execution style, right? >> Yeah. Unless that child just happened to. be there at the wrong place at the wrong. time, and the focus point was the. mother. Of course, we're now learning.

through that same affidavit of body. fluid that's being recovered and other. things that are really suggestive of. where the focus is. that tied back to. some of the messages between the two in. text message that were reported earlier. are all pretty disturbing. So, I'm. wondering if that little boy happened to. be in the wrong place at the wrong time. or if it's showing more of the anger. toward an individual. >> Investigations have changed now because. of AI, specifically chat GPT. I think a. lot of people don't realize um that what. you search in that platform can.

potentially be used against you. So, I. want to talk about the warrant that. targeted his chat GPT history because. the affidavit states that investigators. found that he used it extensively. They. believe the logs could provide some sort. of critical insight here. According to. the Warren affidavit, it states, quote, "The 15year-old appears to use chat GPT. extensively for a variety of uses from. things like crafting, authoring text. messages to friends, and even navigating. relationships by asking for advice. His.

cell phone even has evidence that he. used chat GPT to address conflict. between himself, his mother, and Eli, as. well as other people close to him. And. now we should also note that some of. these digital avenues did lead to dead. ends because the returns on these. warrants show Chat GPT was quote unable. to locate provide any of the data. requested. By the way, his credit report. from Equifax also came back. There were. no records found. And I'll talk about a. geoence warrant in a minute, but talk to. me about that, Mike. I mean, if they. weren't able to locate anything, but.

they say that he was maybe searching. things about how to have conversations. or navigate difficult relationships. I. don't know how incriminating that is, per se. Um, but is it this is a new. avenue about trying to locate chat GPT. history that can be used to understand a. suspect or person of interest's uh. mindset? And I'm not saying that this. teen is a suspect because that hasn't. been identified yet, but talk to me. about your what you're taking away from. that. I think it's again a reminder that a.

good criminal case isn't built on a. single form of evidence that and here I. am talking to the lawyer but but the. idea is that you can't just go in and. say hey chat GPT said tell me how to. kill somebody thus this guy killed. somebody but it becomes part of the. totality of the evidence that shows hey. let's look at the behavior a little bit. the anger the things expressed in text. messages let's look at the fact that. there's some physical evidence gunshot. residue. There's admissions, maybe. statements. We don't have a gun in the.

house. And now we have these chat GPT. discussions where they're saying, "Hey, help me understand how somebody would. get away with firing a gun in the house. and then getting rid of the weapon or. anything like that." I think it becomes. circumstantial in nature and it it. becomes part of that totality of. evidence that could be an incredibly. difficult mountain for somebody like a. defendant to climb over and and get an. acquitt out of. I thought this was. interesting. The earlier geoence warrant. for the phone location data from the.

around the home the night of the. killings also came up empty, but you had. investigators who noted, you know what, that could maybe just s suggest somebody. intentionally left their phone behind. We said the same kind of thing in the. Brian Coberger case. So even if you. don't have the data, that can. potentially be a point of evidence for. prosecutors to say, "Yeah, there's a. reason we don't." What do you think. about that? I think it's it's actually a. gold mine because if you can show that. every day when he leaves home, he never. leaves home without his device. He never. goes anywhere. But that particular.

moment in time, that device is frozen in. one location. It could absolutely become. behaviorally and circumstantially part. of that totality of evidence. So I think. it actually is really much more valuable. than it might have an appearance of at. the face. >> Let me ask you about this. There's this. detail uh according to police that just. hours after the killings while he was at. the police station, the affidavit states. at approximately 4:10 p.m. the teen was. transported back to the Saratoga Springs. Police Department. During this time, the.

teen repeatedly asked for his cell. phone. So much so that at one point his. father snapped at him, told him to quote. stop worrying about his cell phone and. that getting his cell phone back quote. wasn't important right now. Mike, he's a. teenager. I don't know. You tell me. Well, again, I think it goes back to the. previous question of of what's the. behavior normally, and the way that. father's responding might be just that. he's he's distraught. His his uh ex-wife. is now uh deceased. He's trying to.

figure out what on earth this kid's. thinking about. The father may even have. an inclination that that child had. something to do with all of this. And he. goes right to the phone. just forget. about the phone, which is another. indication of how important that phone. is tethered to that individual. >> And by the way, going to the phone for a. second. Um, so we mentioned that the. geoence warrant came up empty, but the. detectives affidavit explains why that's. not a dead end. It's a clue. I mentioned. it before, but it states directly.

Detectives have been unable to identify. any suspicious obfuscated account. activity within the defined area and. times. Detectives believe that this. could possibly indicate that the suspect. and or person responsible intentionally. did not bring their phones with them. when committing the homicides. Now, one. other part that I have to mention about. this digital detective work, it. highlights a major hurdle here. So, the. warrants also state the detectives up. until this point, they haven't been. allowed to speak with or interview the. teen. Now, Mike, that's interesting.

because I don't know the circumstances. surrounding that. Does that seem strange. to you? Yeah, maybe the teen's father. said, "Hey, we're going to get a lawyer. You're not going to be able to talk to. anybody about this." Maybe the teen. doing all these other searches also. figured out if I'm approached, I've got. to now say, "Hey, I need to talk to a. lawyer." If the family had a lawyer or. if the teen was quick enough in getting. a lawyer, then obviously they're going. to be stopped from talking to law. enforcement. >> By the way, I have to ask you about real. quick um some other pieces of evidence.

You know, the idea of the surveillance. footage where they see somebody who. might be suspicious uh wearing uh a dark. hoodie, white a black and white mask, shorts, long black socks, and then it. says that uh police said a mask. resembling the one on the surveillance. video was found inside a bedroom at the. family's home. The mask was white and. brown. It resembles the mask that is. seen on the video recordings that. neighbors previously provided to law. enforcement. To me, again, we learned.

all these new details from the search. warrant. You couple it with that. I. mentioned earlier some of the very, very. problematic and disturbing messages. between the teenager and his mother. What do you think's going to happen next. year? >> Well, I think we're going to see. criminal charges. And I I think part of. the challenge right now is trying to. figure out whether they would charge. this young man as an adult if he is. actually the focus of the investigation. and if they go forward with a. premeditated death penalty case, which. Utah has that ability to do. I think.

that there's also a huge piece of. evidence that's not being talked about a. lot, and that's the DNA recovered from. the mother at the hospital, the DNA. recovered on the sheets in the bed. And. if those match the alleged perpetrator. or focus of this case, boy, I think it. could possibly end up as a at least a. life without parole. And and I'm trying. to remember, I can't even remember in. Utah if a juvenile, even though. certified as adult, can be executed, but.

uh I think there's a lot of a lot of uh. thinking going on right now about what. they do next as far as charges. >> I looked that up really quickly and I. believe that if you were a minor when. you committed a crime, not only are you. not subject to the death penalty, but I. don't even think you're subject to a. sentence of life in prison without. parole. could be wrong about that, but. that's that's what I saw. But look, it's. interesting. And again, just to be. clear, this teenager has not been. charged, okay? He has not been arrested. I don't even have to say he's innocent. until proven guilty because there's no. even criminal case against him. It's.

just weird. It's just very weird. And. now with the release of this additional. information, do you wonder with the. release of this information, Mike, someone else may come out with. something? I mean, if if more details. are um given to the public, do you think. that this will cause other people to. come forward? if they have information. >> Well, I would I would hope so. And we. don't know that there aren't other. people that could be charged in this. thing as conspiratory based on some of. those searches that were going on, what. encouragement might be going on.

beforehand. So, yeah, I mean, this this. one really is an intriguing case and I. guess part of the reason why law and. crime pursues it and talks about it. because this thing has a lot of. tentacles and it could go a lot of. different directions. >> Mike King, thank you so much for taking. the time. I appreciate it. Thanks, Jesse. >> And that's all we have for you right now. here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so. much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple. Podcast, Spotify, wherever you should. get your podcast. You can also check us. out on NBC's Peacock. We got Sidebar.

episodes up there, too. If you want to. follow me, X Instagram. I have my. NewsNation show, Jesse Weber Live, Monday through Friday, [music] 11 p.m. Eastern. I'll catch you next time, everybody.