Secret Grand Jury Reportedly Convened in D4vd Death Investigation

It's being reported now that the. investigation into the death of. 14-year-old Celeste Rivas Hernandez has. taken a major step. Allegedly, a grand. jury has been impanled in this case. But. not any grand jury, a special one. We're. going to dig into whether or not this is. possible, what it could mean for. potential charges, suspects, and how. this is all centered right now on Singer. David. [music] Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse. Weber. Let me tell you something. And if you. think this story is scary, wait until. you hear what's happening with your.

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if you care about protecting yourself. online, take your privacy back with. Incogn. Use code sidebar for 60% off an. annual plan. Well, it seems the twists. and maybe confusing turns in the Celeste. Rivas Hernandez death investigation are. continuing because this time after TMZ. reported that LAPD told them that there. were no arrests that are imminent in. connection with the 14-year-old's death. and disposal of her body. Remember, her. corpse was found back on September 8th. in a Tesla reportedly registered to. singer David out in LA. Now, it's being.

reported that according to the LA Times, law enforcement sources say evidence has. been presented to a grand jury already. Now, it's an investigative grand jury to. be more precise. We're going to talk. about what that is because it's our. understanding they can't return an. indictment, right? So, we're not talking. about formal charges just yet, but an. investigative grand jury certainly plays. a key role in certain criminal cases. We'll explain it. Now, to be clear, right now, there have been no arrests in. connection with Celeste's death in any.

way. David has not officially been. implicated in any crime. There is. reporting that he is potentially a. suspect. But according to reporting from. the LA Times and LA magazine, this. prosecution team in front of this. purported grand jury is being led by. Deputy District Attorney Beth Silverman. that this is a case where they've. potentially had several witnesses who. have already testified in front of this. grand jury. That this may be a grand. jury that has been impanled since mid.

November. We don't even know, by the. way, if this is all true, if it's still. meeting. We don't even know if evidence. is still being presented and gathered in. front of this grand jury. The reason the. LA Times apparently is reporting this is. because they say they got a hold of a. court filing, which we're going to talk. about a little bit later, that makes. reference to a grand jury number. And. look, obviously neither the district. attorney's office nor the LAPD is going. to outright confirm this given the. secretive nature of grand jury. proceedings. But it's interesting when. you think about what Nathan Hawkman, the.

Los Angeles County District Attorney, said just last month. Quote, "The police. have not presented the case to our. office. So at this point, I don't. anticipate one way or another whether or. not charges will be filed, telling the. truth, did things change?" And this. comes on the heels of a lot of. developments from last week, which we. talked about on sidebar. The back and. forth in this is, I mean, you get. whiplash. It came out that sources close. to the investigation told TMZ that. Celeste's body was frozen, that it had. actually been thawing out when it was.

found in that towyard, that she had been. decapitated, that her limbs had been. severed and cut into pieces. And whether. this is complicated, knowing for sure. what had happened to her. The problem is. an LAPD captain and commanding officer. of the robbery homicide division told. People magazine, "This is not accurate. We're talking about Scott Williams said. Celeste's body was not frozen. She was. not decapitated. The whole frozen thing. doesn't even make sense. Her body was in. the car for weeks. Even if she had been. frozen solid when she was put in the. car, which there is no evidence to.

suggest she was, five or more weeks in. the trunk of a car and sweltering heat. in the middle of summer would not have. resulted in a partially frozen body. being discovered on September 8th. Basically said that she'd been dead for. at least several weeks. TMZ though. pushed back on this. They doubled down. that their source connected to the LA. County Medical Examiner's Office, insists Celeste's body was partially. frozen, and even highlighted that. there's one document from the ME's. office that apparently reads, "The. deedent was not live scanned due to.

waterlogged fingers that their sources. say the ME may not be able to officially. determine the cause or manner of death. because of the state of Celeste's body.". and TMZ explained that there's this. ongoing tension between the ME's office. and the LAPD that goes beyond just this. case. It's been problematic apparently. for years. We'll get into this as well, but something's wrong here. Something's. off. There's a miscommunication, right? I will tell you this. The robbery. homicide division released a statement a. few days ago, and we haven't talked. about this yet. said the following. quote, "The Los Angeles Police.

Department, LAPD, is aware of the recent. stories posted by various media outlets. about the David Celeste Rivas. investigation and would like to dispel. some misinformation contained in their. reporting. The body of Celeste Rivas was. not frozen when it was discovered on. September 8th, 2025. She had not been. decapitated. We have evidence that David. traveled to the Santa Barbara area. sometime during the spring of 2025. The. reason for that trip is still under. investigation and we've drawn no. conclusions at this point about the.

relevance of the trip to this case. As. far as the court order, the LAPD sought. to seal the records of the Los Angeles. County Medical Examiner's investigation. into Celeste Riva's death. That order. was sought only to ensure detectives. from Robbery Homicide Division learned. of important information surrounding her. death before the media and the public. The order was not sought to undermine. transparency. No other information will. be provided at this time. By the way, regarding that ceiling, we talked about. this in a prior sidebar, but the ME had. received a court order sought by the. LAPD to place a security hold on any.

information being released from the ME's. office about Celeste's death. So, no. records or cause or manner of death. None of that information can be released. to the public. And as I mentioned. before, the LA Times apparently reviewed. this court petition seeking the security. hold. And it makes reference to a grand. jury number. Hence why there is now this. reporting that it's possible a grand. jury has been convened here. And before. we even get into the grand jury aspect. too, not only was there reporting that. David is being considered a suspect in.

the case, even though the LAPD hasn't. officially confirmed that, by the way, there's mixed reporting on whether he. was cooperating during this. investigation or not. But acclaimed. criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos. said on his Two Angry Men podcast that a. second suspect has been identified by. authorities, someone who was connected. to the disposal of Celeste's body, saying quote, "They've got this thing. down to a timeline that's almost down to. the minute triangulated down to the. location, its social media, cell phone, Tesla, its other GPS tracking devices.". So now we have all that, if that's true,

and now we have this reporting about a. grand jury proceeding. Time to bring in. Nema Romani, former federal prosecutor, somebody that knows the ins and outs of. the criminal justice system, particularly in California. Nema, thank. you so much for coming on. I I want to. just take a step back here and explain. to us what an investigative grand jury. is. How is that different from our. understanding of what, you know, a. typical grand jury is? >> Jesse, thanks for having me. Obviously a. sad and fascinating case and an. investigative grand jury can subpoena.

witnesses and documents, right? That's. its function. It can't return an. indictment. And I think it's important. for people to know that grand juries are. not typically used here in California, right? Obviously, look, I'm a former. federal prosecutor. We used to use them. all the time. But in state courts here, they usually proceed by a complaint and. a preliminary hearing. There's two ways. to get to a felony jury trial. a grand. jury indictment or a prelim. And DAS. here, they almost always proceed using a. complaint in a prelim. So why aren't.

they doing so in this case? That's the. question. I think the reason is they. want to lock in some of these witnesses. before the grand jury, make sure they. don't go sideways because they're going. to need some cooperators at trial in. this case. And that's why the DA's. office convened a grand jury because if. you want evidence, you can probably just. get a search warrant. That's much more. powerful than a grand jury subpoena. >> I have a lot of questions about that. So, first of all, right, a preliminary. hearing would be public. Like, I'm not. saying necessarily cameras, but.

reporters would be in there. It's open. to the public. We would know what the. evidence is against defendants. Grand. jury proceedings are secret, right? So, you you make a good point about that. Why would they want to keep it secret? Is it you mentioned before, but is it. also they don't want to tip somebody. off? They don't want the public. They. don't want potential suspects, potential. defendants to know what they may or may. not have right now. And by the way, defense attorneys wouldn't know about a. grant. They can't present evidence. They. can't present a defense argument. So, they're just waiting to see what comes. back. So, is that also one of the.

reasons this could be secret? I mean, maybe secret. We're reporting about it. Look, I mean, grand juries are supposed. to be secret. They're leaks all the. time. Um, you know, I've been somewhat. critical of this case. Look, I live and. work in Los Angeles. I respect law. enforcement, but things have been moving. at a very slow pace in the Celeste Revas. case. And obviously, I want law. enforcement to get it right. I don't. want them to rush to judgment. That's a. common defense argument. But now, we're. coming up on 3 months since her body was.

found. And when it comes to the body, the most important thing to know is it's. been returned to the family, right? That. evidence is gone. So whether it's the. final autopsy or the toxicology or. whatever it is, those investigations and. tests should have been done by now. So I. don't know what's taken law enforcement. so long. I don't know why they went the. grand jury route because when you take a. long time, witness memories can fade. Evidence can disappear. And importantly, suspects can flee. So I don't like the.

grand jury route. But maybe the DA's. office thought, look, we have to convene. this grand jury. It's supposed to be. secret. I got to get these witnesses to. testify now because I might lose that. evidence later on. >> Explain this to me h how it works, what. an investigative grand jury does. Because look, a typical grand jury, right, would pres be presented that. would return indictment. They're. presenting kind of like a streamlined. case, maybe a few witnesses, maybe an. investigator, maybe a victim, and they. have to get a majority, right, of the. grand jurors that are convened. You. think there's probable cause for an. indictment and return an indictment.

What does an investigative grand jury. do? like what's their daytoday? How long. are they usually convened? And what's. the end result? What do they what what. do they prepare at the end? >> Yeah. So, you're right. Typically, you. go to the grand jury to get an. indictment. So, what does that mean? You. put on your witness, almost always a law. enforcement witness. Usually, it's not a. witness that has anything to do with the. case because the rules of evidence don't. apply. They can present all sorts of. hearsay evidence to the grand jury, right? You want someone that's not going. to be used as impeachment later on that.

might say something inconsistent how. they're going to testify at trial. So. you have this summary witness that talks. about all the evidence in the case. Present that to the grand jurors. And. like you said, you just need a simple. majority. Usually have 23 grand jurors. and then you only need 12 out of those. 23 to return an indictment. And the. standard is low just probable cause. Get. grand jury indictments in a matter of. minutes. That was the function of a. grand jury to charge people. So you. summarize the evidence, feed it to them. in a spoonfed way, make it easy for them. to sign that true bill or the. indictment. An investigative grand jury.

is very different. They tend to go. longer because their role is to actually. hear the evidence. So obviously a law. crime, we cover a lot of trials. Everyone's familiar with that question. and answer format. For an investigative. grand jury, it's almost like a. deposition, right? You want that witness. talking for a long time. So, there's the. prosecutor, there's a court reporter, there's a witness, and the grand jurors. That's it. There's no one else in that. grand jury room. There's certainly no. defendant, no defense attorney that's. going to cross-examine the witness. So,

you want to lock in that witness like. you would in a civil deposition. Now, some states do allow for depositions in. criminal cases, but California is not. one of them. So, think of that grand. jury proceeding more like a deposition. than actually something that's used to. return an indictment. So at the end of. the investigative grand jury, they can. make re they can make recommendations, but they cannot return an indictment. That has to go to a different grand. jury. >> So are they given at the end of day, hey, after everything you heard, do you. think there's enough to subpoena this. witness? Do you think there's enough for.

a search warrant? And at the end of. whatever their session is, they said, do. you think there's enough for us to, I. guess, present the evidence we have in. front of a different grand jury for an. indictment? Am I right about what their. what the end of the day looks like them. every day? That's absolutely right. So, they would have to go to another grand. jury to get an indictment. Again, I'm. not saying they would necessarily do. that. And normally, they would just get. a complaint, an arrest warrant, and pick. someone up and deal with the prelim. Getting a grand jury indictment in the. state court system here is rare. It does.

happen, but it's rare and it's not. typically done, especially in murder. cases. >> So, let me ask you this. Is that because. this is complex in a way? Why would it. is there are there aspects of this where. you might be dealing with a confusing. state of affairs, cause of death, manner. of death, multiple players, high profile. nature of this? Why go this alternative. route? And by the way, I don't know if. it's a murder investigation. There's. back and forth of whether or not it's a. homicide investigation. What makes this. a complex death investigation? >> I don't necessarily think it's that.

complex. Obviously, look, you have a. body that was decomposing for quite some. time. There's a lot of misinformation. out there that might not be true. Obviously, first we heard it was. dismembered, then it wasn't dismembered, then it was completely decomposed, then. it wasn't, then it was frozen, but maybe. it's not. So, LAPD is certainly one of. the most secretive when it comes to. providing information. They repeatedly. request any kind of public records act. request. Information that comes out is. usually leaked. That's just kind of how. they do things. They're not very. transparent, unfortunately, as a law. enforcement agency. Look, and maybe.

that's for the good when you're dealing. with an investigation like this. But the. reason I think this is maybe a. challenging case is you got to get into. the history between Celeste and David if. it was or someone else, right? She was. missing for a year and a half. We don't. know why she ran away. There was some. sort of romantic or sexual relationship, how she died, was she killed, was it an. accident, was it an overdose? So, there's a lot of questions that we don't. know. All those questions, Jesse, I. don't necessarily think lead us to the. grand jury route. what the grand jurors.

are going to do to answer these. questions. These are more questions for. detectives and medical examiners and. doctors and so forth. But again, I think. what the grand jury can do is bring. witnesses in, get their testimony locked. down so they don't go sideways at trial. That is the advantage of a grand jury in. a case like this. I think this case is. going to rely a lot on cooperators, right? People that. >> were in that inner circle, right? that. knew whether it was David who had access.

to the frunk of that Tesla or it was. someone else, whether they're recipient. eyewitnesses. I think that's the. evidence the grand jurors are hearing. witness testimony and the DA's office is. thinking, well, listen, I don't want to. wait till the prelim or I don't want to. wait all the way to trial. I'm not sure. how this witness will present or what. they will say or if they'll go sideways. and do a 180. I want to lock them in now. and that's why I'm convening the screen. >> That's their testimony. they can't. escape from that. The preliminary, by. the way, would be in front of a judge to. determine if there's enough probable.

cause uh to move forward. So, different. than a grand jury other than the secret. aspect. Uh, by the way, we talk about. why there might be a grand jury. This. reporting that there was a reference to. a grand jury number, if I'm reading it. right, in the LAPD's court petition to. place a security hold on the ME. Are. they right? Does that seem accurate that. there's probably a grand jury going on? >> I do think there is a grand jury, and. again, it goes back to LAPD, right? I. mean, they want to make sure everything. is secret and they put a hold on this. Typically, we've talked about it, right?

There's a presumption that government. records are public, right? Including an. Emmy's report and court filings are. public. But in this particular case, they're trying to prevent that report. from being released. That leads me to. believe that the report is complete. The. investigation should be complete or. nearly complete. and the fact that LAPD. is putting a hold on it. Again, typical. for this jurisdiction, but not typical. for how other law enforcement agencies. elsewhere handle these types of reports. And to be clear, we don't know exactly. how long, if this grand jury does exist,

how long it's been impanled for, right? There's been reporting that since mid. November, could be before that. If I. were to tell you that, you know, there. was reporting that there was a search. warrant of the house that David was. staying at back in September where. certain material was reportedly seized, this rental property, and this rental. property was near the Tesla. That. doesn't necessarily mean that search. warrant was issued by this grand jury, right? That it could have been law. enforcement. It could be separate, right? So even though there were.

developments in this case or seeming. developments, doesn't mean it was coming. from the grand jury. It means it was. maybe from law enforcement. I believe that's right, Jesse. And there. was reporting that law enforcement. executed those search warrants of the. home in September. The owner of the home. talked to the press and said that there. were cameras. So, I assume that video. information was downloaded as well. Obviously, we know Teslas have plenty of. videos, potentially treasure trove of. electronic evidence in this case, right? I mean, these are young people. I. wouldn't be surprised if there's a lot.

of text messages and the like. So, I'm. sure we're going to see a lot of. evidence in electronic format in a case. like this. >> Now, can two things be true at once? Can. I say, "Hey, there's an investigative. grand jury being impanled with the idea. of potentially another grand jury being. impanled that would indict someone in. connection with Celeste death or. disposal of her body." And at the same. time, LAPD allegedly telling TMZ that. there's no arrest that's imminent. >> That's all potentially true. True. And.

again, LAPD first said that David wasn't. a suspect, then that he was a suspect. And again, this is all reporting to TMZ. and local media outlets, >> and they haven't come out LAPD and. officially said he's a suspect. Right. >> I think what you want about TMZ, they. really have their pulse on things here. in Los Angeles. I can give you some. inside baseball. Look, you know me, I do. a lot of TV. I do TMZ all the time. And. sometimes I'll file documents in court. here in LA County and TMZ will get a. copy of it before I get my own conformed. copy back. I mean, that's how on top of. it they are. And we do, you know,

celebrity filings and the like. So, they've broken huge news here. Kobe. Bryant's death. They were the first to. report that information. So, I wouldn't. necessarily think, hey, TMZ is reporting. it. It's not true. It may very well be. true. They have a lot of sources here in. LA. So, I wouldn't be surprised if. they're reporting that David is a. suspect is true. >> By the way, what is going on with this. relationship between the ME and the. LAPD? this back and forth about whether. or not Celeste's body was frozen or.

decapitated. I said this when I first. was reporting TMZ's reporting. I feel. terrible for the family that they have. to hear these details whether they're. true or not. But this idea of this. tension between it seems there's. something going on here. In your. experience, is there a strained. relationship? Does it explain why we're. seeing, I don't know, miscommunication, two different ideas about what happened. to her? Yeah, I mean it is an issue. Just so folks understand, LAPD obviously. they are employed by the city of Los.

Angeles. The ME that is a county. employee also Los Angeles as well. So. they don't necessarily work for the same. government agency. I don't know if the. relationship is necessarily strained, but I could tell you living here there's. a lot of pressure. Look, people think. that Los Angeles it's a violent city. Criminals run a muck. And the fact that. you have this young girl that was. missing for so long, then her body was. found in a vehicle and no arrest has.

been made. It seems like at a minimum, right, someone tampered with the body, right? There were an accessory after the. fact or there was some sort of crime. committed with respect to her body, even. if the death was accidental. And of. course, there's all sorts of potential. other crimes. We don't know if. kidnapping, there's statutory rape, there's sex trafficking, obviously. murder. Again, I'm not accusing anyone, but it's surprising that now 2 and 1/2. almost 3 months have passed and not a. single person has been arrested for this.

young girl's death. And a lot of people. that are watching, a lot of people that. are living here, they're upset and they. think that law enforcement, whether. they're overwhelmed, they're just not. getting the job done. So, I think there. is that political pressure on this case, both with respect to LAPD and the ME as. well. People want answers and. justifiably so, especially the victim's. family in this case. >> 100%. And to go back to something that. you mentioned as well, this shouldn't. put undue pressure on law enforcement. They want to they have to get it right. They have to get it right in every case.

But I mean, particularly a high-profile. case like this where there are a lot of. eyeballs on a lot of expectations, but. this security hold that was that LAPD. got on the Em's office. I'm curious your. thoughts on this too. I mentioned. before, but I didn't read the release. that came out from the Emy's office when. this sealing issue happened. So, according to a release from authorities, it says, quote, "At 10:54 a.m. on. Friday, November 21st, the County of Los. Angeles Department of Medical Examiner. Department received a court order. initiated by the Los Angeles Police. Department to place a security hold on.

medical examiner case number 2025 14252, Celeste Reva Hernandez. No records or. details associated with the case, including the cause and manner of death. and medical examiner report, can be. released or posted on the website until. further notice. The department's mission. is to have full transparency with the. community by providing information about. our cases to empower people to make. changes that save lives. Since becoming. the department head, I've worked on. eradicating the practice of placing. security holds on medical examiner cases. simply by law enforcement request. The. practice of security holds is virtually.

unheard of in other counties and has not. been proven to improve outcomes in the. legal system. We are dedicated to. serving our community with full. transparency. However, the law precludes. us from doing so while the court order. remains in this case. The department. previously received a request for. security hold from the LAPD on this case. on September 15th, 2025. So that's 7. days by the way after Celeste body was. found, which was denied due to. insufficient justification to warrant. the hold. The department understands the. public's interest in this case and.

remains committed to transparency when. possible. Information will be made. available once the court order is. lifted. For questions about the order, the court order timeline, and the law. enforcement investigation into this. death, you can contact the LAPD. Now, I. talked about that statement on a. previous sidebar, Nema, but I didn't. speak to you about it. your your. analysis, your experience in terms of uh. uh these court orders, these security. holds, them being petitioned for, them. being granted, and why you might see. something like this.

>> Yeah. Again, this is part for the course. for LAPD. And again, I used to work for. the city of Los Angeles. In addition to. being a former federal prosecutor, I was. the enforcement director at the LA city. ethics commission at the top two floors. of city hall. And we oversaw all the. employees of the city of LA from the. mayor on down. And when it comes to. different types of here in California, it's a public records act request. Obviously, the federal system is a FOYA. request. LAPD is very aggressive when. asserting the law enforcement privilege, right? So, there is a presumption that.

these documents are public, but it can. be the Epstein files. It can be the. Celeste Brieas case. If it's an active. investigation, we've all heard that term. active investigation. That is an. exception to a public records act. request. And that's what the LAPD is. asserting to try to keep that report. confidential. Now, certainly the county. and the Emmy, they feel differently. They feel that the documents should be. made public. That's typically how it's. done in other jurisdictions, right? We. regularly get these autopsy reports.

Sometimes the family will file different. motions to keep it secret. We saw it in. the, for instance, the Bob Saget case. and other cases where it's the victim's. family that's trying to preserve their. privacy. But here, it's LAPD. It's law. enforcement that's doing it and it's. pretty typical for how they do business. >> Now, Nemo, before I let you go, I got to. ask you the fact that LAPD made mention. of this Santa Barbara trip. TMZ had. reported this, this apparent trip that. David took. You know, they reported that. it was in the spring. People have.

speculated, okay, was that the timeline. when maybe Celeste died or her body was. disposed? We don't know for sure. the. fact the LAPD has now mentioned the. Santa Barbara trip confirming something. of interest to them. They didn't have to. say it. They mentioned it. Thoughts? >> Yeah, I mean it's important, right? Obviously, Celestrius was not from Santa. Barbara. Santa Barbara is in the. complete opposite direction for folks. that don't know Southern California. It's a couple hours away from Los.

Angeles where David lived and apparently. where Celeste Rivas was. So, look, it's. important. I don't know. Sometimes you. throw that out there hoping that people. will come forward. Maybe they saw them. There's a lot of people who are. watching. A lot of social media. detectives in a case like this since the. very beginning. Um people have seen them. together. So I wouldn't be surprised. that that there's a specific law. enforcement reason why they put it out. there hoping witnesses come forward with. either video or other eyewitness. testimony. Maybe seeing those two. together. Maybe, just maybe, that's the.

last time she was alive. Nema, I I. really can't tell you how much I. appreciate you coming on and trying to. explain this to us. Um because this can. get complicated. This can get confusing. There is this mixed information trying. to make sense of it. We're lucky to have. you. Uh Nema Romani, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. >> Of course, Jesse, thanks for having me. Hopefully Celeste Rivas and her family. get the justice they deserve very soon. >> Absolutely. And that's all we have for. you right now here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so much for joining. us. And as always, please subscribe on. YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify,

wherever you should get your podcast. [music] You can follow me on X or. Instagram. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak. to you next time.