Nick Reiner's Secret Grand Jury Note Fight Escalates!

Nick Reiner was back in court and not. only are you maybe going to be surprised. by his appearance, but a very important. issue regarding the secretive grand jury. transcripts on this case came up. We're. going to bring on our law and crime. reporter, Julia Deng, who is inside that. courtroom to tell us what happened. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and. Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Nick Reiner back in court. Got to talk. about it. The 33-year-old son of.

78-year-old Rob Reiner and his. 7-year-old mother Michelle charged with. their alleged murders. They were found. dead in their Brentwood home back on. December 14th, 2025. The LA County. Medical Examiner determined the couple. died from quote multiple sharp force. injuries. We know that Reiner was. arrested at an Exposition Park area gas. station on the same day that his. parents' bodies were found. surveillance. footage actually captured that moment of.

the arrest. This was apparently near the. UCLA campus. And to be clear, there. wasn't a preliminary hearing in this. case. There was a grand jury, right? And. so we don't know all of the evidence, all of the facts, all the details that. are going to be presented by the. prosecution. But what we do seem to. know, putting this into a time frame, is. that it was reported that Nick Reiner. had an argument with his father at Conan. O'Brien's Christmas party the night. before the alleged murders. We know that. Reiner was in fact indicted by a grand.

jury. This kind of secretive proceeding. This grand jury indictment was unsealed. in August. And it should also be noted. that while he's charged with murder, they also carry special circumstances. allegations. Lying and weight, multiple. murders, the allegation that he used a. knife. He has pleaded not guilty. He. faces life in prison without the. possibility of parole, not the death. penalty, even though this was a. potential death penalty eligible case. That was taken off the table by the Los. Angeles County District Attorney's.

Office. Now, we're going to get into. what happened today in this hearing in. court, how he appeared substantively, what happened. It it's significant, but. we also have to tell you about something. else to look out for in this story. So, it has been reported that October 23rd, there is going to be a separate probate. hearing that is very, very important. here. Why? It is this hearing where it's. been reported that Reiner is going to. try to access money to seemingly pay for. his defense. It's been reported more.

than $1.5 million this trust fund that. was set up as part of his parents'. estate planning. Actually, to be more. specific, there is a claim from him that. he is owed a $558,000. payment that was due in 2023. So, this. is well before the deaths of his. parents. According to NBC4, Riner via. court documents has made the argument. that he needs this money to rehire. defense attorney Allen Jackson. Remember. Karen Reed? You might recall Jackson.

stepped down from originally. representing Nick Reiner. There was a. report over a lack of funds if you think. about it. Not entirely surprising. because look, Alan Jackson, high-powered. attorney, okay, you're getting a certain. quality of representation, but also if. you're talking about a defense in this. kind of case and potentially a mental. health defense, all of this can get. costly, let alone the experts that you. would need to call to do examinations of. Nick Reiner. Now, the reason I bring.

this up and the reason this is. significant is there is a big issue. What complicates this is California's. slayer statute essentially saying you. can't inherit money from someone that. you killed. Makes sense. Problem here is. he's innocent unless proven guilty. And. in a petition that was filed by his. lawyer, it states, quote, they were a. commitment by Nick's parents in the most. binding way the law of trusts allows. that these resources would belong to. Nick for his use and benefit. Okay,

before we go any further, I just got to. tell you about this sponsor that helps. support today's episode of Sidebar. And. this is something that I use. I'm not. kidding you. Every night I go on it. every night. I love it. It is called. Whatnot. They're also giving away 20. Nintendo Switch twos, but more on that. later. So WhatNot is the number one live. streaming shopping app. And what you do. is you connect with people who are as. enthusiastic about the same things that. you are. There's literally something for. everyone at every age. Pokemon cards, sports cards, electronic tools, coins, toys, Lego, Funkos, fashion, snacks,

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a personal aspect to this. There is a. human aspect to this. It just came out. As you may know, there have been reports. that Nick Reiner had been suffering from. severe mental illness that he was taking. or apparently taking medications before. the deaths of his parents. Goes into. this idea of a potential mental health. defense. But we also know he has a. documented history of substance abuse. It just came out that actor Michael. Douglas apparently spoke to Rob Reiner.

about the difficulties of having sons. with addiction issues. Douglas referring. to his son Cameron. This was revealed in. his memoir, One Hell of a Ride. Here's a. portion of the memoir. Quote, "We both. had sons with serious drug issues and we. both at times had been at the end of our. rope. It was a heartbreaking. confessional for us, but I know we gave. each other some measure of comfort. during the hard times. And when you just. think about that and you think about. family, you talk family for a second,

the personal, the human aspect of this. You know, it was reported that Nick. Riner's siblings, Jake and Romy, testified in front of the grand jury in. this case. There were reports, in fact, that Romy had been the one to find her. parents' bodies in that home. As for. Jake, he actually spoke to ABC7 in. August saying, "It's been eight months. It feels like eight years at the same. time, and it also feels like eight. minutes. Every moment that I wake up, I'm reminded of my reality." And then he.

would go on to say, "I mean, Nick is in. jail, so you know, it's it's like I. physically lost my parents and then Nick. was arrested and it's like now it's just. me and Romy." It's a heartbreaking thing. to think about. And at the same time, something actually also just came out, too. So, according to US magazine, Nick. Reiner's aunt, Martine Singer, so this. is Michelle's younger sister, told ABC7. News, quote, "I'm functioning. I went. back to work in January as best as I. could, but it's always there. It's.

always in my mind and in my heart." And. when she was asked if there was anything. that she would say to her nephew, she. replied, "I appreciate the question. I'm. not sure I can answer that. Sad. Just. really, really sad. Let's get into what. happened at the hearing today. Okay, I. want to bring back in a special guest, somebody who was in that courtroom. She. has been doing terrific reporting for us. here at Long Crime for each aspect of. the Nick Reiner case, bringing back in.

Long Crimeant, Julia Deng. Julia, so. good to see you. Thank you so much for. coming on. There's a lot I want to get. into, to be honest with you, as I'm. bringing you on. Um, I really don't know. what happened in the hearing, right? It's not permitted to have live. There's. no cameras, obviously. There's no audio. equipment. There's no live note. takingaking. So, I'm with you learning. in this moment what happened. Let me. just first start off. How did he look? How did Nick Reiner appear? Let's start. there. >> I'm glad you start there, Jesse, and.

it's great to be back with you. Short. answer to that question. Nick Reiner, the uh firstdegree murder defendant in. this case, he actually didn't look. terrible today. Um his hair was a little. bit more grown out. He walked in on his. own into that courtroom after the. bailiff opened the door. So that was. different. Uh he didn't appear to be. shackled. He was not chained or. handcuffed to his chair at the council. table. He looked okay. Um, he looked.

healthier, I would say, than last time. Last time when we were here, just over. three weeks ago, I noted that he had. lost weight. Um, he had dark circles. around his eyes. His eyes kind of looked. sunken. You know, he had that waxy look. on his face. He looked a lot healthier. today. Now, Nick Reiner didn't actually. speak during this hearing. The entire. hearing this morning, which lasted under.

20 minutes, the entire thing focused on. the sealing or unsealing of grand jury. transcripts. So, Nick didn't say a word. in open court. Um, but I noticed this, Jesse, because I was sitting directly. behind him with a clear view of the. defendant, how he was moving, how he was. looking at the action between different. attorneys. He spoke with the baiff on.

his way back out of the courtroom when. everything wrapped, he got up on his own. and started to walk out on his own. So. whatever is happening behind bars, whatever kind of medication or treatment. he might be undergoing, my takeaway. today, the short answer to that question. was that he appears to be healthier. >> Look, it's it's a question I always have. to ask when we are considering the. possibility of a mental health defense. and when his mental health has been put.

in play as part of the reporting and. substance abuse issues. We're still. trying to understand. Look, the this is. a significant issue, the grand jury. transcripts. I mentioned it before. This. would essentially be our first glimpse. into the witnesses, the actual evidence, what would be used to support the. prosecution's case. So, let's walk. through this. What actually happened? What were the arguments in terms of. sealing or unsealing the grand jury. transcripts?

So, I'm going to start just about three. weeks ago when we heard from the. district attorney, the prosecutor here, uh, DA Nathan Hawkman. He made it clear. during a press conference addressing all. media three weeks ago that he does not. actually oppose the unsealing of grand. jury transcripts. And just to recap, after secret grand jury proceedings, an. indictment was handed down. Uh that was.

July 12th. It was unsealed a couple. weeks later, and we found out in August. This grand jury indicted Nick on the two. first-degree murder counts uh that he. was charged with previously uh in. December after he was first arrested in. the killings of both of his parents, Rob. and Michelle Reiner. So, the indictment. has been unsealed for quite some time. now. It's a four-page grand jury. indictment. And aside from the initial.

charges, what it added was a special. circumstance, lying in weight, which. made the case eligible for the death. penalty, which we now know the DA is not. planning to pursue. But here is what is. still in question, the actual. transcripts, the wordbyword. documentation of what happened during. those grand jury proceedings, which. until now have been secret. So, the. transcripts and the exhibits, which give. us a sense of who testified and exactly.

what they said before this indictment. came down, there was a conditional. motion to seal those transcripts, those. conversations. But the judge, Sam, he. made it clear three weeks ago he was. going to give media outlets an. opportunity to oppose that motion. So, that's what was argued this morning in. court. Um, nothing actually came out of. it. No decisions were made aside from.

the setting of another date. So, we're. going to be back here on October 21st. So, in two weeks, they're going to. revisit this because the public defender. in this case, Kimberly Green, uh she. filed a motion with just a couple. internet clippings um asking the court. to seal those grand jury transcripts and. exhibits. Now, their argument is that. this could potentially prejudice a pool. of jurors here in LA County, but a media.

representative, a lawyer for a media. coalition um of journalists, of course, working to ensure transparency, she says. they plan to file a motion to oppose. that uh push to seal the transcripts. before the end of today. So essentially, it sounds like both sides need more time. and we're going to be back here in two. weeks to hear the same issue argued one. more time. >> Let let me break that down a little bit.

So first, my first question is based on. um and that was a terrific recap. It it. seems to me that the prosecution didn't. oppose this today. They, you know, they. basically took the position, I imagine, what Nathan Hawkman said, you know, you. want to release the grand jury. transcripts, release them. I imagine. that's what they said, unless they said. something else today. curious, but also. number two, did the defense explain what. the contents of the grand jury. transcripts were that they're most. concerned about? Is there something that. came out that they're more concerned.

about or they just we don't know? >> We don't know. That's a great question, Jesse. And the judge lingered on that. for quite some time, too. It actually. sounded to me like he was getting a. little bit impatient with both sides. and he asks very clearly in open court, you know, what kind of test are we going. to be looking at here? What is it that. is being argued? He put um the the. attorney for the media coalition on the. spot and asked her, you know, do you.

plan to argue that these transcripts. need to be unsealed on First Amendment. rights? And he initially couldn't get a. clear answer out of her. So, it sounds. like the two sides are clear on the. outcomes they want, but they don't yet. have clear arguments. Um, prosecutors. did not actually speak up in court. They. were sitting off to the side. They. didn't say anything until it came up. that we had to set another hearing date.

to continue this issue. So Habib Billian. and uh Jonathan Chung, they were sitting. off to the side and it was public. defender Kimberly Green who's now. representing Nick Reiner uh seated. beside the media coalition attorney at. the council table taking these questions. from the judge. I can tell you this. though, and this came out the last time. that we were here on September 15th. during another pre-trial hearing in this. case. I can tell you that the.

defendant's siblings, younger sister. Romy and older brother Jake, they've. made it clear to the district attorney, they oppose the unsealing of these grand. jury transcripts. Now, they haven't. indicated why, but it sounds like both. of them may have testified during these. grand jury proceedings. So, anything. they might have said about their. brother, um, who again is about to stand. trial for the murders of their parents,

it sounds like they believe what might. have been said, what might be in these. transcripts could do more harm, could. cause more trauma than what they're. already facing. So, even though Nathan. Hawkman made it clear he doesn't think. this is going to actually prejudice a. jury, he doesn't think this is going to. compromise the integrity of his case, he. is taking what the Riner siblings are. saying into consideration.

>> Not surprising. Not surprising. And. again, I've seen those reports as well. that they testified. We talked about it. earlier. I've talked about um you know, their roles in all this, Jake's. comments. So, it's not surprising they. wouldn't want information like that. released. that could have a traumatic. effect. And this is interesting, too. October 21st, the way that we understand. it is just two days before a separate. hearing in a probate court where Nick. Reiner is trying to get access to money.

to seemingly pay for his defense, possibly to rehire Allen Jackson. So, that's going to be that's going to be a. busy week. And it's interesting because. you have a front row seat to see how. he's currently being represented. And. you know, the idea that he wants those. funds to potentially get private. counsel, I think is interesting. >> This is an interesting twist in the. case. So, going back to when this. started in December, mid December, with. these horrific killings and then Nick's.

subsequent arrest. So, he immediately. retained a private defense attorney. I. think we're all familiar with this name, Alan Jackson. high-profile, very pricey. So, he took on the case. immediately after he got the call when. he was out in New York, but he later. withdrew. He withdrew earlier this year. I believe it was in January. And he has. stated over and over it wasn't because. of money. It wasn't directly because he.

didn't get paid. In fact, he has been. paid, but he said it was because of. circumstances out of his control and out. of the defendant's control. So, that was. when this LA County public defender, Kimberly Green, who I just chatted with. in the hallway after this hearing, that. was when she was appointed to this case, and she's been representing him since. But you're right, Jesse. There is an. upcoming probate hearing that I think. every journalist in the criminal.

courtroom this morning is planning to. attend on October 23rd. And the reason. that relates directly to this criminal. case is because Alan Jackson has. actually been standing beside the. probate attorney uh in that case, you. know, trying to argue for the defendant, Nick Reiner, to access money in a trust. fund that was set aside for him by his. parents the year that he was born. It. was reportedly created in December of.

1993. before Nick had even turned 100 days. old. Um, so just in a nutshell, what was. supposed to happen with this trust was. that a fractional payment was supposed. to be distributed to Nick Reiner when he. turned 30 years old. Now, that didn't. happen. Um, and it's been reported the. trustee who was supposed to do that, who. was supposed to give him this fractional. payment totaling more than half a.

million dollars. Um it it should have. come out to about $558,000. They decided that he he wasn't. confident. Um Nick has been struggling. with substance abuse issues, mental. health issues. That has been well. documented. But the argument now is that. he should have had that money. He should. have had more than half a million. dollars from that trust that was set. aside for him. um and he should have had. access to it two years before these.

killings. And had that happened the way. that it was supposed to, he would have. money now um to to select and pay for. defense, which he needs. It's gotten to. a point now where that's not the only. thing on the line. They're saying he has. to ask for permission to even get $50. transferred into his commissary account. so he can purchase basic hygiene items. like shampoo. So something that's been. cited um is the California Slayer.

statute and the probate attorney who. filed a. 136page brief in this case back in June. um her name is Anita Woo. She is arguing. that doesn't actually apply here because. the slayer statute can only be applied. in the state of California to funds that. would have been paid out um after. somebody is deceased. For example, money. that's left behind in a will. And again,

that's not the case here. This trust was. supposed to have a fractional payment. for Nick as soon as he turned 30. >> Yeah. And and again, I mentioned this. before about why he might need those. funds, particularly if you're dealing. with a mental health defense and. experts. Now, before we go any further, I just have to say this is a big case. that we've been following here on. Sidebar from the very beginning. And. with these big cases, sometimes we just. can't show you every piece of material, document, evidence. That is why we got.

the case file section on the Long Crime. Plus app. So, we're opening up the. evidence vault so you can inspect things. like the raw body cam footage, the 911. calls, the crime scene photos, the full. trial tapes, all firsthand on all these. big cases. Plus, you get ad free. streaming of all your favorite Lawn. Crime and Court TV shows. And right now, we got a special offer. You use my promo. code Sidefall, you get your first three. months of Lawn Crime Plus for just $2.99. a month. That is 50% off the regular. monthly price. Hope you can check that.

out. Before I let you go, Julia, real. quick, you just said, and correct me if. I'm wrong, you had a chance to speak. with the public defender, can you tell. us the substance of that conversation at. all? >> I did. I did. So, we walked outside of. the um courtroom, and you know this. courthouse, Jesse. It's packed upstairs. It's a mad rush for the elevators and I. just happened to be in the hallway. waiting for the elevators um beside. Kimberly Green, the public defender. who's now repping Nick um and who has. been ever since Alan Jackson withdrew in.

January. Um and she was actually. chatting with the two prosecutors. leading this case um Habib and Jonathan. So they all seem well acquainted, they. all seem friendly. Um, you know, no new. information about the case itself. We. were kind of just chatting about the. judge. You know, we noted this morning. was kind of a relaxed atmosphere. Judge. Sam OT came in with his hair down. He. was rocking a side part. Um, he wasn't.

wearing a bow tie this morning. He was. wearing a tie, but he didn't even have. his robes on when he walked into the. courtroom. Um, you know, we watched him. putting the rogues on and then he heard. a separate matter before getting to the. Nick Reiner hearing, but overall, you. know, pretty relaxed atmosphere and. we're just waiting to see what happens. with this um motion to seal the grand. jury transcripts at exhibits. >> You're going to let us know. You've been.

our eyes and our ears. Excellent. reporting. You really put us there. Um, I can feel like I'm in the courtroom. I. can see what happened. Uh, thank you so. much. We value you so much. We. appreciate you so much. Julia Deng, looking forward to our next. conversation. >> That's all we have for you right now. here on Sidebar, everybody. Really. appreciate it. I'll see you next time. I'm Jesse Weber.