Mystery Recording Surfaces in Joseph Duggar Molestation Case

What I will say, I will just just don't. trust anyone. If there's anything I've. learned from this, do not trust anyone. That's all I can say. I'm trying to I'm. I'm boarding up my walls. >> The criminal case against Joseph Duggar. of 19 Kids [music] in Counting Fame is. moving forward. But now there is news of. a [music] mysterious recording that's. been turned over as part of Discovery. We're digging into what could be on this. secret [music] tape and the impact it. could have on his alleged child.

molestation case. Welcome [music] to. Sidebar presented by Law and Crime. I'm. Jesse Weber. Yeah, it's been a little bit since we've. talked about the case against Joseph. Duggar. But despite that, things have. been moving along in Bay County, Florida, with Duggar now back in his. home state of Arkansas. But the 19 kids. and counting star is charged, as we. remember, with lwd and lascivious. behavior involving a victim younger than. the age of 12 and lude and lascivious. behavior conducted by a person 18 or.

older. And the alleged victim, whom. Duggar had reportedly been on a family. trip with to Florida, was just 9 years. old. And get this, as it turns out, after apparently posting a $600,000. bond, Duggar has reportedly been trying. to amend his conditions so he doesn't. have to stay away from the victim's. home. Now, I'm going to get more into. that in just a moment, but first, I got. to talk to you about this bombshell news. of a secret recording which has. apparently been introduced as part of.

the discovery process. You know, where. evidence materials exchanged. So, according to Bay County criminal court. filings, prosecutors disclosed a phone. recording of some kind that would be. presented as evidence in the criminal. proceedings. Now, the private recording. was turned over to Duggar's legal team. last week. This is according to page. six, which reportedly viewed court. documents that were related to this. case. And the exact contents of that. recording, not clear, unknown. And in. another filing on the same day, Bay.

County prosecutors added a woman who's. affiliated with an Arkansas Children's. Safety Organization to the witness list. So, could she provide insight or context. of some kind? Maybe in connection with. this recording. Being from Arkansas, it. makes it seem like she might have some. connection with the Duggar's home life. Maybe. But what she could testify to, we. don't know that either. But I will tell. you that a Bay County Sheriff's Office. report kind of gives us some details. about what the victim told police.

happened back in 2020 on that family. trip or allegedly happened. So, the. teen, who's now apparently 14, sat down. with the detective to do a forensic. interview and quote, described several. incidents of sexual abuse, namely, according to the affidavit, that Duggar. would allegedly cover them both in a. blanket and then quote pull the victim's. dress up and touch the victim's thighs. and quote touch the top portions of her. thighs and would inch higher and higher. closer to the victim's waistline. and.

that he allegedly grazed the accuser's. private area while his hand was outside. of her underwear and that he later. allegedly apologized. Now, according to. the affidavit, the interview was then. shared with Bay County, Florida law. enforcement and the deputy sheriff had. the detective and the accuser's father. call Duggar. That's when, according to. this affidavit, he allegedly quote. admitted his actions, stating he touched. the victim over her clothing during the. call and then quote admitted his. intentions were not pure. And that is.

what led up to those two charges of lud. and lascivious behavior. He's entered a. not- guilty plea to all those charges, by the way. And he is innocent unless. proven guilty. But just days after his. arrest, Kendra was arrested in Arkansas, right? his wife charged with four counts. of secondderee endangering the welfare. of a minor and four counts of. secondderee false imprisonment. Now, it's been reported by sources close to. the investigation that there may have. been locks on the outside of the. children's rooms. It hasn't been. officially confirmed. Now, Kendra was.

released from custody pretty quickly and. then her husband was hit with those same. Arkansas charges. They had both entered. not guilty please. And to be clear, it. doesn't seem like those charges are. related in any way to the Florida case. But in August, a judge signed off on a. plea by order for both Kendra and. Joseph. Basically, if they abide by. certain conditions and don't get in. trouble for one year, the charges are. going to be dropped. They also have to. pay more than $1,600 in fines and court. costs. And when it comes to recordings, by the way, Duggar, who has spent. practically his entire life in the.

spotlight in one way or another, knows. how to watch his words, right? Or you. think that he does. I mean, we got our. hands on jail phone calls between Joseph. and his wife, Kendra. Uh yeah, Travis came last night. Yeah. So, we got to talk over a bunch of stuff. and. um Okay. >> So, and then they served me those papers. that he got an email [snorts]. with the. stuff. So, anyway, they served those to.

me last night. So, I have those after he. after he came like 30 minutes later or. 40 minutes later, they they uh gave me. the they served them to me, I guess, is. what you call it. So, >> okay. >> I haven't looked at the email. He did. say he was emailing something to me. >> He's just pretty much tells what the. report was saying from people. So, anyway, you can look over it. Um. anyway, it was kind of cute what Addy. said.

So, >> oh really? Yeah. >> It tells everything that the kids said. I need to read over it. >> It It just says, "Yeah, they have like. just a written statement from. a few of them, you know.". >> Oh. Oh, I didn't realize that. I need to. read that. >> And they have your statements of like um. the, you know, the stuff with the with the. allegations there. Um your conversations. with the officers, that kind of thing.

So, >> oh, >> what did I even say? >> Well, you just said that you're going to. you're going to change stuff, but. >> Oh, okay. >> So, but yeah, it wasn't. >> it's not a big deal. It's all stuff that. we already know talked about. Um, >> okay. We'll have to read what their. statements were. >> Yeah, there's like it was almost like. there's like three copies of the same. thing. It almost seemed like to me, but. maybe they're different. I don't know. Uh but anyway,

the sergeants came and served them to me. last night. >> Um. >> Okay. Hi. >> Hey. Yeah. Know that just just know that. we can't talk about a lot here. Did. Travis get a hold of you? >> Yeah, I've been talking to Travis. >> Oh, good. Good. >> I've I've got him as my attorney right. now. >> Okay. >> Um I don't know if you know that. I I. asked him to be my attorney. >> Yeah. I didn't I didn't know who exactly. we So, let's go.

>> Well, it's not for you. It's only for. me. I mean I mean he can he can work. with you, but it's just I they said I. needed somebody um for the case that. we've got going um with the. [clears throat] kids and stuff. I I. haven't had a lot of time to process. what I need to do or what I need to tell. you cuz we're being recorded. >> Yes. >> All the time. Everything's recorded. >> Well, I know. And that was the thing is. my my brain had to slow down because it. was going too quick whenever I first got.

in here. It just it took a while for it. to calm. And then I was like, well, you. know what? I came to the realization I. was like, well, I'm I'm here. I need to. just embrace where God has me. Um, and. just serve where I where I am. You know, like Joseph, >> I read the story of Joseph, how he just. he had to be where he was and embrace. the situation and serve God. >> Yeah, that's true. Yeah. I want you to.

stay encouraged, but I don't. >> Yeah. >> I I feel like I can't be there as much. for you right now. >> No, that's fine. >> So, I know the Lord. Okay. Because I I. have my my own battles that I'm dealing. with. >> Yes. You have a you have a lot of things. you're you have a lot of things you're. doing, sweetie. >> Had to have known those were being. recorded. Joseph and Kendra Duggar, they. have four young children. After the. charges were filed in Florida, the judge. ordered that he would have to have. supervised visits with anyone under 18, including his own children and his.

youngest siblings. His defense tried to. change the judge's mind on that, but. ruling still stands. And by the way, you. can check out all of those jail phone. calls if you want a more complete. picture. You know, the calls between. Joseph, Kendra, others, it's over on the. Long Crime Plus app. That's in the case. file section if you want to check that. out. But now we got to talk about. another effort by Duggar. This effort to. get some of his bail conditions removed. or changed. I mentioned it, right? So, there's another court filing that shows. that Duggar's defense team is requesting. that the rule keeping him 500 ft or more.

away from the victim's residence, that. should be thrown out. Now, before you. say, "Oh my gosh, this is just an. attempt for him to get near the alleged. victim." Take a step back a little more. nuanced. So according to the defense, the girl and her family quote abandoned. the home. So the motion is titled. defendant's motion to amend the no. contact order so that defendant may. visit defendants's land parcels which. are within 500 ft of the alleged. victim's abandoned residence. It reads. in part, quote, "During the first. appearance, the honorable judge Tracy.

Smith implemented a standard no contact. order so that the defendant must avoid. the alleged victim in this case. The. alleged victim previously resided within. 500 ft of various land parcels which are. owned and maintained by the defendant. The alleged victim and her family have. abandoned their residence no longer. residing at the previously listed. address. The defendant requests this. honorable court to amend the no contact. order so that the defendant may visit. the following parcels of land owned and. maintained by the defendant. And then. the motion goes on to list out six.

properties that Duggar allegedly. manages, as well as work that needed to. be done at those locations and. everything from mowing and landscaping. to carpet installation to sheetrock. repair. The defense says, quote, "The. continued no contact order in its. present forum is causing issues with the. defendant being able to maintain the. properties listed herein." The defendant. is not requesting contact with the. alleged victim nor to be within 500 ft. of the alleged victim as the alleged. victim abandoned the property previously. listed as the alleged victim's. residence. However, the judge denied.

that request, writing, "The defendant. continues to be permitted to send. maintenance workers onto the defendant's. land parcels," basically saying, "Anyone. else can be there, not you." So, according to the Bay County Courts in. Florida, Duggar has a pre-trial hearing. It's scheduled for November 10th. He's. also waved his right to be present for. pre-trial hearings, so likely it'll just. be his attorneys in court. But. obviously, there's a lot to talk about, including this secret recording. Okay, real quick. Today's episode of Sidebar. is brought to you by Vintage. Are you.

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game. You get it. When you hear that the. prosecution has reportedly turned over. this secret recording to the defense may. or may not be significant, but I'm. trying to understand what it potentially. could be. You know, one of the things is. the jail house recordings we got like. the jail house recordings we heard those. things are being recorded. I can't. imagine it's that. It has to be. something else, right? >> There could be something, you know, it. could be any number of things. It could. be a recording that uh happened before.

the arrest was made because remember. these allegations were almost you know. four or five years old by the time you. know he actually got uh criminally. charged with it. So the the incident. happened you know a few years before the. actual criminal charge. And so there. could have in in that window of time, maybe there was a recording that got. made of a phone call or somebody didn't. remember it and maybe one of the. survivor victim uh family had it and and. turned it over to the state and then the. state of course has to turn it over to. the defense. Um it could be uh it could.

be a law enforcement recording that we. pre previously haven't seen. We knew. that we knew that law enforcement. coordinated with the I think with the um. the survivor's dad and they had a. conversation, you know, where there were. some alleged incriminating statements. made by, you know, Mr. Duggar. And so, you know, it could be any number of. things. I like you said, it's probably. not a jail house telephone call, though. It could be because as we all know, um. all calls coming in and out of a jail. are recorded by law enforcement and they. actively go through those. And I bet,

you know, that we have AI, it makes it. even easier for uh an AI, you know, u, you know, uh, agent to listen to all the. phone calls and send a send a text to. the state attorney's office if something. interesting comes up. So, it could be. any number of things. >> Let me ask you about this conversation. So, again, I mentioned it before, I'll. mention it again. Uh, according to this. affidavit, this interview with the. alleged victim was shared with uh, Bay. County, Florida law enforcement. And the. deputy sheriff had the detective and the. accuser's father called Duggar. And.

that's when, again, according to this. affidavit, he allegedly quote admitted. his actions, stating he touched the. victim over her clothing during the call. and then admitted his intentions were. not pure. That's very specific language. Now, it makes me wonder if law. enforcement set up that call, it would. have had to been recorded, right? Unless. it's just them recollecting this is what. this is what he said or this is what he. allegedly said. >> I would be I you know I'm not going to. say weird stuff happens. That kind of. call definitely should have been.

recorded. Um you know could it be you. know could it be that if I was a defense. lawyer? So, I'm going to like roll. reverse and say if I was a defense. lawyer in that case and I had the law. enforcement on the phone and had the. victim's father make a telephone call. kind of at the direction of law. enforcement, they're going to make a. motion to exclude that testimony perhaps. because maybe it, you know, was law. enforcement kind of in a backdoor way. questioning, you know, the accused. And. so there are some there are some issues. about notice and advisements of rights.

if there's um you know if the state if. there's state action in the securing of. the original statement. So maybe you. know maybe the defense lawyer you know. has something to think about there as. far as filing something. So maybe this. other statement that we have via you. know telephone is something that maybe. um you know kind of helps him get over. that issue if it ever comes up. Um, but. you know, it could be could be any. number of things, but just the fact that. he initially told the father and law. enforcement on the phone that he had, you know, the requisite mal bad intent,

um, it really makes the case pretty. difficult. >> Okay. So, so let's just unpack that for. a second. If this recording is this. phone call for a second, okay, um, you. raised an interesting point in terms of. how it can be excluded. You're saying. that if the father was in a position. where he became an agent of law. enforcement that he was doing the. questioning. What is the legal grounds. to exclude that? Because if one party I.

mean what's the legal ability of law. enforcement to record a call? One of the. parties has to have consent to it. Does. it that you need a warrant for it? I. mean, explain to me legally how they. might be able to record that call and. legally how a defense attorney can. potentially exclude that call because I. I agree with you. If he said what they. claim he said and that's presented to a. court that's presented to a jury, >> I mean that could be potentially game. over. So, so talk to me legally how.

they'd be able to do it and legally how. it might be excluded. >> Sure. A couple different concepts. You. have your uh you know, Florida is a. two-party state. If you have a. reasonable expectation of privacy in a. communication with somebody that's on a. telephone, if you have a reasonable. expectation of privacy, two-party state. in Florida, both um both have to um give. permission to be recorded, right? Uh. can't do it in secret. So, I can't. remember if Arkansas is a one party or a. two-party state. For instance, I know I. know Mississippi is a one party state.

So, if somebody's in Mississippi, you. can make a call. Um they it's a one. party state. only one party to the. conversation has to give consent for it. to be recorded. That's different than. Florida. So, if both parties are in. Florida and there's a reasonable. expectation of privacy, both parties. have to be notified that there's a. recording that's happening. So, that's. an issue, but it depends on where the. call originates from. Um, and so in this. case, I don't know where the call with. the father and the police officer and. the defendant originated from. I don't.

have that data, but it it so that can be. one thing. But another thing is is. imagine this. An officer wants to take. an a police officer, law enforcement. officer wants to take a statement from a. suspect or an accused. Um they know that. person has a lawyer or they know that. person's going to invoke their. constitutional rights to uh you know. remain silent or to have an attorney. before making a statement, but they say, "Hey, you know what? Um you're not a. police officer. Why don't you make the. call for me and I'll just listen in on.

the background." Um, so you make the. call that I want to make as a law. enforcement officer, but I can't do it. But you can do it because you're not law. enforcement. I'm just going to listen in. the background. There's a constitutional right to due. process um that can possibly come into. play. And if I was a defense lawyer, I. would at least be exploring that as an. option of was this a really a police. initiated conversation or interview that. was just done through the father. um and.

uh to circumvent the the Fourth. Amendment uh privileges that you know a. suspect has. Uh and so there those. there's kind of two different issues. There two-party state telephone call. versus one party state um telephone call. and then there's constitutional fourth. amendment issues. >> Let me ask you this. Depending upon what. happens next, right? What arguments made. by defense council or let's say and I'm. not saying this will happen. if they. enter some sort of guilty plate, uh, does that tell you something about that.

call, the value of that call? Like be we. should be on the lookout for who files. what next after that call has been sent. over to the defense, right? >> Sure. I What some things we could expect. to see, we could expect to see a motion. to suppress or motion to exclude. evidence filed by the defense lawyer. perhaps. Um, if all of the sudden that. uh telephone call is transmitted in. discovery, uh, the defense has time to. digest it and listen to it with the. defendant. Um, and then all of a sudden.

you see uh a notice of change of plea on. the court docket where the the defendant. is saying, "Hey, you know what? I've. decided I want I don't want to go to. trial anymore. I want to, you know, enter a no contest plea or a guilty. plea." Yeah, maybe that that phone call. had some uh some uh effect. [clears throat] got to say something. real quick. For anybody who's been. supporting me over the years, supporting. the projects I've been a part of, first. of all, you guys are amazing. Thank you. so much. We have the best fan base. But. I thought, why don't we do something? Why don't we do something different? Why. don't we switch things up? Why don't you. ask me the questions for a change? Yeah.

So, what we're doing is we're giving. some fans the chance to meet with me. virtually, one-on-one, to ask me. anything. Ask me about the cases I've. covered behind the scenes at Sidebar, prime crime, really anything you've. always wanted to know. So to enter, you. sign up for Law and Crime Plus. You. click the link below. You submit your. questions for a chance to be featured in. an exclusive Just Ask Jesse special. It's the week of Thanksgiving. And right. now, by the way, you get 25% off an. annual Long Crime Plus subscription with. promo code Just Ask Jesse. It's just. $44.99 for the entire year. So hopefully.

you can join me. I'm really looking. forward to it. And I'll see you then. Why would a defendant Why would a. suspect allegedly make an admission like. this? >> I mean, if it's true, >> conscience. Yeah, guilty conscience. Um, you know, why would they make an. admission? Maybe a lack of. sophistication with the with how the. criminal justice process works, right? I. mean, as a lawyer, 99 times out of 100, we always say make. sure you don't make any statements uh. without your lawyer being present. Um, and uh, you know, a lot of times that a.

lot of times that doesn't happen. And. so, um, you know, maybe this maybe. Duggar was having a a moment of. conscience where he was having a. conversation and wanted to try to, you. know, apologize for what he had done. And, um, you know, it doesn't absolve. you of of, you know, criminal exposure. if the state decides to move forward. with the case. There's another aspect of. this story that I thought was. interesting. We talked a little bit. about it. I don't know if you saw it,

but um he tried to have his uh bail. conditions amended and basically he. wanted to be allowed to now be within. 500 ft of the alleged victim's. residence. He made the claim that she. and family moved out, that it's near. property that he manages, that he needs. to be able to go there. The judge denied. it. Judge said you can send people there. to to work on the property. Is that. common? Is that a I mean if she again. this idea of if she really did abandon. the home I don't know but like the judge. said no you can't go anywhere near.

there. Is that the right decision? >> So um it it could be the right decision. and I I didn't hear what evidence was. pres presented from both sides. Um but I. I think that judges are always going to. try to heir on the caution of protecting. a survivor or victim. And so if there's. any possibility that that that that. survivor survivor's family could be back. at that location, I can see why a judge. would be justified in saying, "Hey, you. know what? Send hire somebody. [clears throat] to go over there and do. the do the maintenance." Um, you know,

I would like to hope that judges are. going to try to heer on the side of. doing the right thing, but if it's kind. of a tie goes to the runner thing where. it's just about convenience and maybe. not a constitutional right, like it's. inconvenient that maybe he has to send. somebody over there to do maintenance on. that whatever place, you know, air on. the side of of the survivor. If it comes. down to a constitutional issue or. actually a right in court, I think, you. know, it's a different scenario. But on.

something like this, um, maybe there. wasn't sufficient evidence to show that. there was no connection with the. survivor in this piece of property in. the future down the road. Let me ask you. one more point, and this kind of maybe. is attached to the recording. I. mentioned it before, there was another. filing on the same day where the Bay. County prosecutors, they added a woman. who is apparently affiliated with an. Arkansas Children's Safety organization, added her to the witness list. So, you're wondering why, whether it's connected to the recording.

or not, how it's connected to the case. being from Arkansas, does it make like. she might have some connection with. Duggar's home life? What did you make of. that? Any idea about what her value may. be uh as a witness or potential witness? because you could be added to witness. list and not actually be called as a. witness. >> Sure. Um, so I did see that and what I. thought immediately is was they, you. know, he and his wife, Duggar and his. wife had their own case up in Arkansas. completely separate from this one about. child endangerment, right? that case. from what I can tell from looking at the. at what I have seen um in the reporting.

is that that case has been kind of put. in a pre-trial diversion or deferred. prosecution kind of situation where as. long the children have been. >> um allowed to have contact with the. parents. the case has been stayed, it. looks like, for about a yearish, and. that at the end of that period of time, if they don't get in any new trouble or. have any type of new violations, it. sounds like that case in Arkansas. against both mom and dad Duggar might be.

dismissed. So, I wonder if the. investigator. uh in Bay County, Florida, found out. that there may have been some. investigation into what kind of parents. they are, whether there's been any other. prior allegations of inappropriate. contact with children, whether there's. been any other allegations of abuse of. children, and maybe that person that has. recently been listed as a witness that. looks to be from perhaps from Arkansas. um may have some information that may. may bear on something uh relevant to.

prior conduct. >> So in other words, even though the. charges that they were facing in. Arkansas are unrelated to the. allegations that he's facing out in. Florida, through that investigation, through potential witnesses in that. case, there could be some sort of. connection, some sort of value to. Florida prosecutors. So it seems like. the Florida prosecutors might have been. paying attention to what was going on in. Arkansas. >> or maybe somebody in Arkansas called up. Bay County and said, "Hey, you guys. really need to know this about our. investigation. We found out that this.

guy has people sitting on his lap all. the time, that he's touched other kids. up in Arkansas, >> which we don't know, by the way. We. don't know if that's true. Yeah. >> That so when Yeah. Just to be sure, those are that is hypothesis of why. there may be contact. I mean, there's no. there's no been al there's been no. allegation that I'm aware of. I'm. speaking just hypothetically, >> right? Yeah. No, that that's true. And I. find that interesting that that person's. been uh now put on the witness list. Um. again, kind of one of those unknowns. So, I mentioned this before. He has a. pre-trial hearing. It's scheduled for. November 10th. He's also waved his right.

to be present for pre-trial hearings. A, why do you think he decided to do that? And B, um, what can we expect from a. pre-trial hearing? >> Sure. Quite frequently in um, and and I. practice in these counties kind of along. the panhandle coast. Uh, frequently. those type of hearings are to talk about. things like logistics, like what day are. we going to pick a jury? What day are we. going to hear motions pre-trial? what. day are we going to talk about jury. instructions pre-trial and so it's not.

uncommon at all for a lawyer to wave. their client's presence especially if. they're out of state because there's not. anything that is super critical as far. as a determination of constitutional. rights that that happens at those types. of hearings frequently it's just. logistics so I would expect it to be a. hearing about logistics uh when's the. trial happening how many jurors are. going to be picked or how many jurors. are going to be in the pool what are. jury instructions going to be what. pre-trial motions are there to here if. there are pre-trial motions where um a.

constitutional right is implicated. generally that's called you know a. critical point um and a client has a. right to be there and I would always. want my clients to be there. >> so should we expect any discussion about. this recording at November 10th. >> if the defense files a motion um if they. don't file a motion ahead of time then. uh judge probably won't pick it up so. keep an eye on the docket see if there's. a motion to exclude or motion to. suppress u that that pops up.

>> Chris Clutz, thanks so much. Always. appreciate you. >> Always good to see you. Have a great. weekend. [music]. >> That's all we have for you right now. here on Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so. much for joining us. I'm Jesse Weber. We'll speak to you next time.