Mom Who Shot 4 Kids Has 5th Child Missing: Police

It is impossible to make sense of a. senseless tragedy like this, but we will. do everything we can to seek justice for. these children. >> A Texas woman is accused of gunning down. her own children in a horrific act of. violence. Now, somehow two of the four. victims survived. They're now in. recovery as their mom sits behind bars. on a $14 million bond. And as the. investigation into Oninda Romulus. widens, stranger and stranger details. are coming out about what was allegedly.

going on inside her home. Welcome to. Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm. Jesse Weber. >> Like I said, at this point, this is. still an ongoing. However, what is most. important is that our team is working on. this. We've been burning the midnight. oil on this ever since this dropped, right? So, uh, I can assure you we're. we're looking into this and there is a. lot of stuff that is not not able to be. released at this point. >> Law enforcement in two Texas counties. are trying to piece together what led to.

a mother allegedly shooting her four. children inside of a car, killing the. oldest, a 13-year-old boy, and the. youngest, a three-year-old little girl. Brazoria County authorities say. 31-year-old Oninda Ramulus herself. called 911. This was just before 5:00. a.m. on Saturday, October 4th from an. Oasis convenience store in Angleton. According to a criminal complaint that. was later filed against Romulus, quote, "Afient learned from the Brazoria County. Dispatch that a black female identified. as Oninda Romulus had shot her four.

juvenile children and was currently. located at the convenience store." So, this complaint goes on to explain the. scene that this investigator came upon. at the gas station where a white car was. parked at a gas pump with the engine. running. Okay. Quote, "A white sheet was. covering a small child's body that was. lying on the ground behind the vehicle. Afion observed a second white sheet. covering a body that was on the. passenger side of the car between the. car and the gas pump. Afen observed the.

body was positioned with its body. hanging halfway out of the front. passenger door with legs in the vehicle. and the upper torso and head on the. ground. It's absolutely horrific. Now, at a news conference, authorities said. that while they believe that this. shooting took place inside the car, they. don't know or it's unclear where the car. was when that happened. According to the. investigator, the store owner arrived, let the deputy look at the surveillance. footage. The investigator wrote that.

they were able to see a woman believed. to be Romulus, get out of the white car, walk around to the gas pump. It. reportedly appeared like she was talking. on the phone at the time, so possibly. already on the phone with 911. Not. entirely sure. Once she got gas, she was. seen walking back to the driver's side, stops to look in the rear window before. getting back into the driver's seat. Now, the first deputies on the scene, they tried to talk to Romulus, but when. she started backing away from them and. the car, that's when they detained her.

That is when they realized that there. was a male slumped over in the front. passenger seat. He was later identified. as 13-year-old Accario. They tried to. render aid, but he was dead. He was dead. from gunshot wounds. And that is when. they saw that there were three other. children in the back seat also. sustaining gunshot wounds. And despite. their best efforts, another child, three-year-old Amora, was pronounced. dead. The two others, an 8-year-old, a. 9-year-old, they were lifellighted to a. hospital. Court documents indicate.

multiple guns were found with Romulus. Whether they were on her person or in. the car wasn't specified, but according. to the complaint, deputies had already. mirandized Romulus. So, the investigator. tried to talk to her to find out what. happened here, but said she quote wasn't. making any sense. And at that point, she. was taken to jail. When the investigator. got back to the sheriff's office, Romulus was escorted to an interview. room. They wrote in the complaint that. she appeared paranoid, didn't want to. sit down, kept looking out the door of. the interview room, but the investigator.

was finally able to build enough rapport. with her to ask a few questions. The. complaint reads, "During the interview, Afen asked Aninda Romulus why she called. 911, and she stated that she couldn't. talk about it." Afient then asked. several more questions as to why she. called 911, and she stated, "Instead of. them doing it to me, I'm going to do it. to them." Afion further asked, "Do. what?" Oninda Ramulus stated, "Kill them. all." At one point, when Romulus was. being questioned, she reportedly said. that she didn't call 911. She called,

quote, "the devil." Afion continued with. the interview and asked Oninda Ramulus. if she had any children. She stated, um, Afion further asked how many children. she has, and Oninda Ramulus replied that. she has four children, naming them and. stating their ages. Afion asked Oninda. Ramulus where her children were and she. stated they were with quote the devil. Afen then asked what she meant by that. statement and Oninda Ramulus stated. they're dead. Afion asked Aninda Romulus.

what she meant by that statement they're. dead and she stated cuz you can't take. me without me taking you. Aninda Romulus. further stated that her children were. dead to her. So authorities, they. charged her with two counts of murder, two counts of aggravated assault with a. deadly weapon, and she was booked on a. $14 million bond. It turns out though. that Ramulus' home was in Porter, Texas. in Montgomery County. So that's more. than 60 mi away from where she was. arrested. And we got our hands on the.

search warrants that were filed by. Montgomery County investigators. And I. will tell you, they provide more. information about her that we need to. talk about. All right. So, before we. dive into all these details, I want to. welcome on a new guest here on Sidebar. Dr. Tianansi Wilson, a nationally. recognized legal scholar, commentator, law degree from Howard University, doctorate from the University of Texas. at Austin, knows how to break down all. of these complex criminal matters. Thank. you so much for taking the time and. welcome to Cybar. We really uh love. having you. >> Yeah, thank you for having me. Great to.

get into this conversation. >> Yeah, this is a this is a tough case. I. mean, the information we know so far is. just chilling. It is so shocking a scene. for law enforcement to respond to. You. have four children, grizzly wounds, two. of them already dead, two who could die. if they didn't get immediate uh help. Uh. what is your initial reaction when. looking at this? And what do you say to. people? What is the the number one. priority when responding to a scene like.

this? >> Uh you know, I my number one response. was, "Oh my god, the children,". >> right? I I looked at the, you know, the. transcript and then Katis a little bit. of the video, I guess, from the scene. and I'm just thinking like, how does. someone what type of mental state must. someone be in to allegedly do this to. the children and then get out, drive to. a gas station on the phone and start. pumping gas, right, while some of the. children within the breath inch of their. life. And but in terms of the kind of. preserving the crime scene for the.

police and for law enforcement, maybe. for a defense attorney, right? The first. thing you want to do here is check the. car and see is anyone alive, >> right? Can can we get a medical expert. out here to survey this scene? How do we. get this woman to begin talking if. she'll talk at all? Right? Is she. meandized? Are we going to be able to. use what she's telling us? want to. preserve the crime scene for a. prosecution and perhaps for a defense, but also uh making sure that we can get. to the wounds and understand what has. happened to these kids because clearly. from the affidavit, it's not immediately. clear uh that the children had been.

shot, right? Or whether they're alive or. dead. So that that'd be my first couple. priorities there. >> By the way, you know why we're able to. bring you stories like this? It's not. only because of the amazing support that. we get from all of you out there, but. also from our incredible sponsor, Morgan. and Morgan, America's largest injury law. firm, a firm with over a thousand. attorneys. You know why they're so big? Because they win all the time. They have. recovered over $25 billion for more than. 500,000 clients. In the past few months, a client in Florida received $12 million.

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by clicking the link below or scanning. the QR code on screen. You mentioned mental health. The. investigator said at least twice in this. affidavit that Romulus quote wasn't. making sense, was acting paranoid. When. you read something like that, what do. you make of it? >> Well, I mean, there's a lot more that. needs to be done. So, as as a criminal. defense attorney, my first thought is. one, is she going to be competent to. stand trial in the future? Right? But.

that determination is made at the kind. of moment that we're getting ready to go. to trial, not at the crime scene. But. two, at that crime scene, is she just. speaking gibberish? Is she acting? Does. she need mental health support? Cuz a. lot of times you will have folks that. are maybe just in shock. And I can't. imagine, you know, allegedly shooting or. even just being accused of shooting four. of my children, killing two of them, that I would not be in shock, that I. would not be saying anything, right, to. an officer or to myself, to God, whoever. I believe in, to my family. I'd also be.

interested in thinking about who she was. on the phone with after she called the. police. That'd be interesting to me. But. in that moment, you know, we're going to. want to get have her have some type of. evaluation. uh because you she could be. leading you down a rabbit hole or you. know it could just be that whatever. she's saying is not helpful to the crime. scene investigation or to the. investigation of you know are there. other children which we kind of find out. later. >> There there are two things to that as I. was reading it. One you know the idea of. allegedly shooting your own children. there's got to be something there. So, so first thought I wondered, is she even.

on the phone with anybody? Right? If. you're thinking about delusion, I mean, was she even speaking to anybody? Let's. put that there. But my understanding is. in Texas, and I know this is an. incredibly tough defense. I know that. this doesn't always apply, but when. you're dealing with a situation like. this, I I immediately looked it up. Texas has the insanity defense. And if. you're talking about whether somebody. appreciated the wrongfulness of their. actions, and obviously we don't have all. of the details yet, but is that. something that may be considered by a. defense attorney when you're talking.

about such a heinous crime like this? And it may be difficult for a jury to. accept how on earth could someone shoot. children like this, um there has to be. something wrong. >> That's right. Well, I mean, I think in a. situation like this, you always consider. every defense, right? Uh because again, just to remind our viewers, what we have. right now is affidavit from the police. We have Lisa's side of the story. We. don't have her side really yet. I always. tell my when I was teaching law, I tell. my students, look, when you read an. affidavit, you read a crime scene.

report, you read a complaint, this is. the worst case scenario for the client, right? This is if all the worst things. are true, that's what we're reading. right now. So, as a defense attorney, of. course, you're going to want to consider. that insanity defense. And and it's not. the best defense you can get. It's not. the one you want to use. That's not a. get out of jail free card cuz if you use. that that does not mean you are not. going to be punished. It means right in. many cases in Texas is a strange state. I got to look a little bit closer. I. haven't been there in a minute. But it. generally means across the country that. you're going to be incarcerated uh and. well held. Let's not say incarcerate.

Detained maybe is maybe a better word. until you reach sanity, right? And then. your punishment might change. So this. isn't like you get an insanity defense. and now you're out at your house right. on medication or being checked up on. unsupervised probation. No, you're still. going to be held away from society, right? So, that's something that we have. to think about. But again, in any. defenses, were they again, were they. able to appreciate the wrongfulness of. their act at the time? And we don't know. that, right? But do they also understand. that the thing that they're doing is. criminal? That's another thing that.

we're going to think about. So, she. could say that, yeah, the devil made me. do it. That still not may not meet the. standard of insanity in Texas. So, that. that's going to be a hard defense to. make. And if I'm the defense attorney on. this case, I'm going to be looking at. other things. Does someone else shoot. these kids, right? Was she under the. influence? Was she unlawfully drugged by. someone else? Is there medication. interact? >> C Can we talk about that real quick. before we get in any further? Would it. be standard protocol to test her blood. for any alcohol, drugs, toxins? And if. they didn't, if law enforcement didn't,

is that something that a defense. attorney could bring up as a potential. issue later down the line? >> If they did not? >> Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's something I. would bring up. I mean, generally in. cases like this and any in any case, particularly in Texas where they they. love to test your blood for anything, they're probably going to do these tests. mostly for a liability issue for the. jail as well. Because now you've brought. this person in who's clearly acting. delusional, walking in circles, talking. to someone who's not there, talking to. the devil, saying her kids are with the. devil because she's not going to let. them take her out. There's something.

wrong here. So, you're going to have a. medical evaluation, and that medical. evaluation team is going to decide what. test need to be done to best treat this. person. Because the other thing that. you're going to be looking for if you're. the jail or the sheriff in Texas is to. say, "Wait a minute. I don't know if. this person needs to be on suicide. watch. I don't want this liability in my. jail without having a metal team truly. evaluate what's going on with her. mentally, what's going on with her. psychotically, what's going on with her. kind of phys with herbiology here? Is. she under something?" So, those are. evaluations we're going to want to do. But, as a defense team, of course,

you're going to want that information. And if they don't have it, it's great. because now you can create more. reasonable doubt. Sometimes it's better. that they didn't do the testing. It's a. really good point. That's a really good. point. I I you Okay, so let's talk about. this. Dr. Wilson, I I want to get your. reaction to Romulus' social media. presence. Okay, so we dug into her. Instagram page. And while some moms, you. know, might be sharing photos and videos. of their children's milestones or these. really special, cherished moments. Her. page has almost no posts that feature. her children. Many of her photos and.

videos, they showcase a party lifestyle. includes her showing off stacks of cash. and luxury purchases. Although, as we. know, what's presented online isn't. always the truth, no matter who you're. talking about. We found this example, by. the way, of Romulus' parent maybe. attitude toward her children. It's from. a trip to Cancun that they took for. spring break earlier this year. And a. photo of a drink with the caption, I had. to soon as I got off the flight cuz. these kids ain't worth a damn. Then. there's a video apparently from that. same trip that shows or seems to show.

Romulus escorting a group of children to. an area with a pool. She speaks with a. more on the way down a flight of stairs. And the caption on the video reads much. needed. Smiling emoji with hearts. If f. them kids was a person face pal emoji. >> Y'all got to go. >> Peace. See y'all later. >> Peace mommy. >> Y. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I am. I'm going to.

have a great fucking time with you all. >> Bye. >> Kanye wants to go get y'all babys. >> Yes. >> Why? >> Why? Cuz you're going to get in the. pool. Cuz you're going to get in the. pool. Look, you're going to have a good. time. Yes. Come on, everybody's inside. >> And one of the last videos posted before.

this tragedy has the caption, "Mama got. to have a life, too." Dr. Wilson, is. this relevant for the case? Is this. something that investigators, prosecutors, perhaps the defense. attorneys will look at and use? >> Oh, I mean, prosecutors might try to use. it, right? I mean, they probably will. hope that a jury has seen these images. already, hope the news picks it up, but. I don't think it's directly relevant to. the state. I mean, if there's other. information that comes out, if there's. child abuse allegations, if there's. allegations tied to these specific.

events or pictures where they're kind of. like timestamped or time captured, that. could be relevant. But these are out of. court statements that don't send to have. anything to do with her quality as a. mother. I mean, these are things that, you know, I have a lot of friends that. are single mothers and a lot of them, they'll have their entire Instagram. child-free, right? This is their. fantasy. Not that they don't love their. kids, but they have a lot of stress in. taking care of these kids on their own. And Instagram is about them and bigging. themselves up and being able to look. glamorous and just have that kind of. single sexy woman moment, right? And the.

kind of f them kids statement is a thing. that's really common, at least in people. around my age, right? It's kind of just. this notion that you get to be a human. being, too. But they can be misconstrued. or they could be really deeply uh held. beliefs that no, I don't give an f about. my children at all. I do wish they were. dead. I do have resentment toward them. So, I mean, we have to be able to tie. these statements to at least a pattern. of events that underly and say that this. is her deeply held feeling and aren't. just kind of out of court hearsay type. of moments, >> right? Tie it to this kind of intent to. kill. I talked about the fact that.

Romulus' posts tended to feature these. expensive items like purses, sunglasses, cash. The search warrants that were. filed by Montgomery County deputies, they kind of give us insight into how. she may have come by that cash. So, the. warrants have a black and white photo of. a brick home on Spear Valley Lane in. Porter, Texas. And in addition to. requesting photos and videos of the. inside and outside of the home to be put. into evidence, the warrants, they list. items that deputies wanted to get their. hands on inside. That includes all. electronics that can store data like DVR.

systems, cell phones, tablets, computers, SIM cards, hard drives, any. equipment that can be used to print, copy, scan, produce, alter any paper. item, any and all items containing. identifying information for any purpose. And we'll get to why in just a second, but Dr. Wilson, in situations like this. where a person is accused of such. horrific crimes, what are the limits on. what investigators can seek with. warrants? And what do you think might be. going on here?

>> Well, yeah. I I will tell you what. I. when I look at a murder case, I'm. generally not uh thinking I'm going to. find a mastermind criminal or fraud, right? So, these are completely. generally different types of people that. commit these two different crimes unless. a person that that does get murdered is. also involved in this kind of fraudulent. scammer activity. But when you're. looking to create a search warrant, you're looking to find evidence that is. tied to the crime that you believe has. happened, right? Couple different types.

of warrants you can get. You can get a. warrant because you believe that a crime. is a foot. You can get a warrant because. you believe a crime has already happened. and that kind of evidence itself is. going to be disappeared uh harmed. It. might perish because it could be. something that's biodegradable. We don't. know, right? But you have to list them. that weren't the things you're hoping to. find with particularity. So, it tells me. that when they have these list of items. that they're looking for, they've gotten. some information or an inkling about. these things somewhere else because what. does that have to do with shooting four. children? That is a strange attenuated.

connection. So, that tells me that. officers already had an inkling that. some other things were going on. So, I'm. wondering what did she say in the. interview? You know, what was found in. the car, in her purse, on her person, on. her phone perhaps, that she was not. represented by council and silly enough. to give her phone to the police. Where. did this inkling come from for the. police? Because it seems to me very. clearly that this woman, aside of. allegedly murdering her children, allegedly, she's really a smart criminal. businesswoman. If she's able to pull all. this off, get all this information, have.

such money, I imagine what she could. have done if she would have did these. things the right way, got an NBA, went. to school, started her own business, and. be able to really provide for her kids. So, I'm wondering, you know, what what. is behind this? How she get into it? Le. let's expand upon that a little a little. bit because we should note that the. search warrants they also indicate that. there was a dog that was quote abandoned. at the residence that's now under the. care of animal control. These warrants. also reveal that deputies were concerned. about a person that could be in this. home as well because the warrants state. at the time of unit's arrival at the.

Spear Valley Lane location, the oldest. child of Romulus, a 17-year-old was. unaccounted for as this child was not. located in the vehicle with the four. other victims. Now, eventually, deputies, they breached the door of this. home. They wanted to look inside, figure. out if this 17-year-old was inside, and. if so, was this person okay. No one was. found. I want to talk about some of the. items that were found inside that house. So, the paperwork says that during an. initial search, investigators found. evidence of a largecale.

identity fraud scheme. Okay, so this is. what we were talking about. quote, "I. observe there to be a large amount of. social security cards and other. identification documents containing. identifying information of numerous. individuals. This includes social. security cards, US treasuring checks. addressed to this location with. different names contained on the checks. The counterfeit identification documents. were in various stages of manufacture. bearing different names, states, and. photographs. These items are believed to. be connected to criminal activity but. outside the scope of the initial warrant.

for the residents. Some identification. cards had photographs of Oninda Romulus. with names of different individuals. These items were located in an office. inside the home that also contain. multiple shipping labels, phones, computers, laptops, printers, and other. devices. So, in total, investigators. gathered up a staggering amount of. potential evidence. Fox 26 Houston. reports that court documents list out. items which include 31 social security. cards, 33 ID cards, 15 credit cards, 15.

packages of blank checks. Dr. Wilson, going back to you, if all of this is. true, you mentioned it before about how. they might have got to it. Do is this. now going to be a separate case? Are. they going to separate the the the. killings versus potential financial. fraud? >> It will probably be the same case, just. different charges, right? And you know, as you know, when you have a warrant, you're supposed to list the specific. things that you're looking for. And I. think the word we use in criminal law, I. haven't talked this part in a minute,

but it's with particularity, right? You. can't just go on a fishing expedition. But the rule also is if you go into a. home and you see evidence of another. crime, it doesn't have to be a home. office, wherever the warrant is, and you. see evidence of another crime that's in. what we call plain view, it's fair game, right? And so they went into that office. office within this building or home or. what have you looking for this young man. and they saw all this evidence of. another crime. And so that that's that's. fair game there. But yes, this is going. to be part of the same case. Uh and.

that's going to be difficult for an. attorney because a lot of us specialize. So maybe you specialize in in murder. cases and but now you have this maybe I. don't know what type of fraud or how. many different types of fraud is going. on here. I wouldn't feel equipped, right, necessarily to take on the fraud. case, but I feel more comfortable with. the murder case. And of course, some. people are best athletes and just say, "Hey, reasonable doubts, reasonable. doubt." But these are going to be the. same case probably with a with an. assorted team of attorneys if she can. afford it or hopefully her public. defender service down there uh has a. really highly qualified team. And.

>> that's a really good point. And I will. tell you the search warrants, they also. indicate that there was a Tesla with a. Georgia license plate that was parked in. the driveway when the units got there. And background records show that Romulus. previously lived in Georgia. Now, according to investigators, a. surveillance camera from across the. street apparently showed multiple people. coming out of the home just after 2:30. a.m. on Saturday, October 4th, with some. of the subjects being quote small in. stature consistent with children. They. apparently got into a car next to the.

Tesla, drove away. The warrant requested. access to the Tesla's camera system, the. storage in order to gather information. about people who might have left the. home that night. The investigator. providing details for the warrant noted. that it can take several days, maybe. even weeks to gather this much. electronic evidence. Dr. Wilson, we talk. about electronic evidence all the time. How maybe in today's day and age, it. could be a lot more difficult for. someone to hide criminal activity um or. to get away with a crime. I mean, a. Tesla in and of itself is almost like a. computer. It's a very different kind of.

operating machine. It's a very different. kind of how it can store information. I'm curious what we can expect when we. talk about electronic evidence. Well, I. mean, Teslas are really particular. I. have a Kia EV9 and I love the car. because security features are so great. and there's so many cameras. I have a. friend who recently, I believe, had. their Tesla, someone tried to steal it. and the person was on camera cuz the. Tesla was yet recording, right? So, when. these things can act as surveillance. devices in of themselves, you have a. problem here. But, of course, when we're. trying to get subpoenas for electronic.

devices with the Tesla, it might even be. as hard as kind of with a cell phone. So, do you need to get the subpoena from. to the Tesla company? Are there certain. encryption ways that you can do encrypt. your data with the with your Tesla? How. do you actually get into uh the cars? There's a lot of questions there. And. often times these companies don't want. to give you the data even though there. might be a murderer, a serial killer, or. a rapist on the loose because the way. they sell themselves is look, this is. your privacy here. And they're selling.

the notion of privacy and convenience. So if someone like Tesla, we've seen. this with Apple in the past, with the. FBI, just hands over the data, just. hands over their surveillance without. any type of real fight, it cheapens in. the eyes of a lot of consumers the. experience and the product that they're. buying. It feels like you can't even. have, you know, the so-called right to. privacy in your own home, in your own. car, or what have you. And of course, we. know with the vehicle, you have a. reduced right to privacy as well. So I I. think there are a lot of issues there, not necessarily with just a legal piece. of the subpoena and getting that.

information, but the kind of battle with. the company that is looking also at. their bottom line, their brand, their. reputation. >> I'm glad you mentioned that cuz we. talked so much about chat GPT and how. there's what you put in there can be. potentially used in a criminal case and. and how technology advances and we talk. about privacy. But I will mention this, there is another strange twist to this. case. So, while deputies at a news. conference wouldn't discuss any custody. issues surrounding Romulus' children,

Romulus herself was featured on an. episode of the TV show Paternity Court. Yes. So, according to the Daily Mail, the question of who the father of an. 18-month-old child, who that father was, was posed in a 2013 episode. Now, it's. unclear if that child was one of the. victims in the case. I will say the ages. do line up for it to be 13-year-old. Aario. When it comes to other details. from Romulus' background, Fox 26 Houston. reports that the Fiatt County Sheriff's. Office in Georgia confirmed to them that.

Romulus was arrested in 2022, charged. with misdemeanor DUI of drugs, failure. to maintain her lane, possession of less. than 1 ounce of marijuana. The outlet. reports that it appears she entered a. guilty plea to the DUI charge. The. prosecution dropped uh the other two. charges. Dr. Wilson, before I let you. go, any way that could play into the. case? You know, we talk about prior bad. acts, prior history, anything like that. we should be considering in this. investigation or this potential legal. case. >> Well, I I would think not necessarily. the marijuana possession or, you know,

driving while under the influence of. weed. No offense to my friends in. Atlanta, but I think you could throw a. rock in Atlanta and probably hit someone. driving under the influence of weed. Uh. but but in terms of you know that that. TV show is really interesting to me. because it makes me wonder is this. person is in in conjunction with the. Instagram. Is this someone who is. looking for notoriety? Is this someone. who's trying to become kind of reality. TV type of we know those paternity case. court TV shows are all about getting. your name out there. A lot of it's. fabricated. So I'm wondering is she.

trying to create a bigger image, a. larger than life image for herself with. both that and this tax issue. Is this a. motive? this is why she needs to get rid. of the kids potentially uh so she can be. by herself, be a celebrity, live her. best life. I mean, that's something to. look into. It's not dispositive of that. It's not evidence, but it's a theme, right? It's something to keep in the. back of your head. But yeah, the. marijuana, I wouldn't I wouldn't as much. worry about that. It doesn't really have. a connection to many things. uh besides. maybe you know being a single mother and. trying to de-stress and making some bad.

decisions. But I would wonder what is. the motive here and does this connection. with Instagram and the bags and the cash. and the TV shows and and and perhaps. Atlanta itself does that portend a kind. of desire right to be free of these. children to have a kind of celebrity. profile to live an alternative life. right. >> yeah and going back to the human aspect. of this let's just end on this point. >> it is so tragic it is so sad because you. think what becomes of the two surviving. children right who are expected to. recover well for now it's not clear.

who's going to take custody of them when. they are released from the hospital. Uh. this is according to Fox 26 Houston. A. spokesperson for the Texas Department of. Family and Protective Services, Melissa. Lanford, told the outlet, "Child. Protective Services is investigating. this case, making sure that the safety. and well-being of the surviving children. is our first priority." Mr. Ramulus has. had contact with CPS on one other. occasion. Details of that interaction. are confidential, but will be included. in a public child fatality report when. our investigation is complete. Dr.

Wilson. Such a pleasure to have you on. Um, thank you so much for breaking down. the legal intricacies of this. complicated, sad, disturbing case and uh I look. forward to having you back here on. Sidebar. >> Yeah, thank you so much. I just say one. last thing. Tony Morrison was asked. about survival and she said, you know, sometimes we don't survive in whole. We. only survive in part. And that is my. fear uh for these kids, the parts of. them that survive. Thank you for having. me. This was a great uh but also very. serious and sad conversation. And that. is all we have for you right now here on. Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so much.

for joining us. And as always, please. subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you should get your. podcast. You can follow me on X or. Instagram. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll see you. next time. [Music].