LEGO Scandal Heats Up as 'Reckless Ben' Scores MAJOR Win

Well, like I told you earlier, you're. walking a very dangerous line. >> Am I being arrested? >> I'm getting arrested right now. >> Really? >> Yep. Those were the moments that put. Reckless Ben in handcuffs out in Utah. But now, months later, something has. changed. One of the cases against him. has taken a very unexpected major turn. Prosecutors made a move that could. change the legal fight Ben has been. dealing with for months. The question is. why? What does this mean for him? We got.

the court documents and we're bringing. on attorney Rich Showenstein to help us. break it all down. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse. Weber. Major development in the Reckless Ben. case that we've been following here on. Sidebar. You remember him, right? YouTuber with more than two million. subscribers. He was arrested not once. but twice out in Utah. says he was there. to serve court papers on a man that he. believes was connected to the. disappearance of a family's $200,000. Lego collection. Am.

>> I being arrested? >> Really? >> So, our plan kind of moving forward is. we're going to book you back into the. jail. Okay. For an additional stalking. charge. >> And now, months later, Reckless Ben. appears to have emerged partially. victorious. Well, for now anyway, because prosecutors in Provo, Utah have. dismissed charges against him. There is. a little bit of a catch here. The case. was dismissed without prejudice, meaning.

prosecutors could potentially bring. those charges again. >> Well, like I told you earlier, you're. walking a very dangerous line. >> Now, to be clear, the charges in. American Fork are still pending. So, this doesn't mean that Ben's legal. problems in Utah are all over. The. question we're diving into here is why. Provo prosecutors chose to drop this. case and what this dismissal actually. means. So, we got the documents. We're. going to bring on one of our favorite. litigators, favorite attorneys, Richard. Shoenstein, to break down what this. actually means, why this may be far from. over. But before we get into Provo, I.

want to talk about what Ben's been up to. since those March arrests. Because he. certainly hasn't been quiet. Just a. month ago, on August 15th, he dropped. one of his biggest investigations yet. into Provo Canyon School. Utah youth treatment facility. And in. that video, Ben says he posed as a. 17-year-old, hired an actor to play his. father, got admitted, filmed for two. days, and then jumped the fence and ran. Salt Lake Tribune also reported on the. investigation. And then you go to August. 27th and he dropped another.

investigation involving allegations. against the company called Ideal Living, what he described as a human trafficking. ring. Now, those trafficking. allegations, however, have not been. established as facts. Let's be clear. But then you go to September 12th, so. just days before Provo dismissed the. charges, and Ben opened a Lego store in. Tucson, Arizona at a location that had. previously been a Bricks and Minifigs. franchise location. He calls it Reckless. Bricks. So that's the current Ben. We've.

interviewed him before. He is a very. interesting guy, I'll tell you that. much. He's still making undercover. operations. He's opened his own Lego. store. He's fighting a civil lawsuit. He's still facing criminal charges in. American Fork. And just to understand. how we got here, okay, what we're about. to talk about, you got to go back. You. got to go back to the Lego dispute that. brought Ben to Utah in the first place. The civil lawsuit is still in mediation, but Bricks and Minigs initially sought. at least $1.3 million against Ben and. others, alleging defamation, civil.

conspiracy, harassment, more. In this. investigation, he was apparently trying. to help a family in Oregon that had a. massive Lego Star Wars collection. allegedly worth about $200,000. The. family had apparently consigned the. collection to a Bricks and Minigs. franchise store. But after the franchise. changed hands, a dispute developed over. what happened to the collection, whether. the family had been properly. compensated. So Ben got involved. He. advocated for the family in their legal. fight. That dispute eventually reached a. settlement. Bricks and Miniigs later.

said that the family had been. compensated for their losses. But Ben's. own legal battles were just getting. started because back in June, he sat. down with us right here on Sidebar, laid. out exactly what he said he was facing. >> Uh the first one is um stalking. When we. tried to serve him court papers, the. second one is stalking. when I. uh made the GoFundMe, they couldn't get. me for the stealing the Legos because. obviously they stormed my house. There.

was no Legos. And then I have So that's. that's in uh American Fork, but I'm also. getting charged in Provo for extortion. And I'm like, I literally gave the. police department the entire raw footage. of our entire interaction that there's. nothing like that in there. and they're. still charging me for that. And that. one's a felony. It's a class B felony. they're getting me for. >> Now, that was back in June. And it's. important because what Ben described. there were cases in two different.

jurisdictions. In March, Ben was in. American Fork trying to serve court. papers on Joshua Johnson, this Bricks. and Miniigs franchise owner, and within. days he was in handcuffs. >> Do you have any weapons or anything like. that on you? >> Uh, no. >> Okay. Find your back. Am. >> I being arrested? >> You're under arrest right now for. stalking. the first time I ever been. arrested. >> And then the very next day, police. raided the Airbnb where Ben and his crew. were staying. >> The doors are open. Windows are open. >> Windows are open. >> You ready on you?

>> Everybody step out. >> Police Department search warrant. >> Stand up and come outside. >> right now. Let's go. Step outside. >> Step outside. Everybody. come on. Everybody step outside.

>> Are we all going to present it? >> Just curious. >> They booked him again. This time on a. second stalking charge. So those are the. American Fork charges. Those are still. pending. The Provo case is separate. And. that's the case that just got dismissed. The details of that case though, they go. back to an earlier confrontation. involving Ben and Bricks and Minifigs in. Provo. Ben was apparently facing. criminal charges stemming from that. incident. And as he told us back in. June, he believed that the Provo case. was much more serious than the stalking. charge or charges in American Fork. But.

now prosecutors have dismissed it. Right. And when you look at the court. documents, the explanation for it is. remarkably brief. quote, "In the. interest of justice, that's it. There. isn't a detailed explanation in the. dismissal itself, laying out exactly why. prosecutors made that decision." And. because this case was dismissed without. prejudice, the dismissal doesn't. necessarily prevent prosecutors from. bringing the case again. So, was there a. defect? Was there a problem? What. happened here? Why did they decide to.

drop this case now? What is in the. interest of justice actually mean? Does. this dismissal really change Ben's. broader legal situation? And that's what. I want to get into and that's what we're. going to break down next. So to help me. do that, let me bring back in Rich. Showenstein, one of our favorite. litigators, trial attorneys. Oh my gosh, look at that blazer. Fantastic for. >> I bet you say that to all the trial. lawyers. >> I I don't know. I don't I mean that's a. that's a nice little That's a nice. outfit. I have to admit it. Okay, got to. start with this news. Um in the interest. of justice, they have dismissed these.

charges. So disorderly conduct, trespass. Why? What does that mean? interest of justice. >> That means the prosecutor has determined. not to push the charges, not to go. forward with the charges. Interest of justice is just code to the. court that we're taking these charges. off the table. I don't I don't know. exactly what it means or why they're. doing it, but they're not proceeding. Does it signify to you there's a problem.

in the case? >> Well, I don't know that there's a. problem in the case. I mean, it it was. sort of a tickytac case to begin with, right? This is it. >> And this one is about it seems. allegations of him maybe uh confronting. the CEO of Bricks and Mini Fig, >> right? So, and and that and possibly he. stepped over the line in the way he did. that. I mean, you can have an opinion. about whether or not he should show up. with a camera crew and do that kind of. confrontation. But is it a criminal act? Does it require prosecution? As long as.

you get him to leave the guy alone, I. don't know. they may have just decided. it wasn't worth continuing to prosecute. >> Do you think because of his exposure. too? I mean, he's got a massive. platform. It is bringing a lot of. attention to Utah. It's bringing a lot. of attention to law enforcement. Do you. think it weighs on prosecutors if the. stakes aren't necessarily too high, if. the charges are relatively low, they. say, "Do we want this headache? We'll. just drop it." So, it could. That would. be human nature. But I'm going to tell. you that my experience with prosecutors.

by and large and with exceptions by and. large they prosecute the cases they. think should be prosecuted. Yeah. >> They don't really cowtow public opinion. because you can't do that in a. prosecutor's office. You'd be changing. your mind all the time about any number. of things. >> Yeah. >> So I don't know that I suspect that. I. just think maybe, you know, time has. passed. He hasn't gone back there to. bother the guy. I guess he's still doing. videos, but.

>> Well, let me ask you, if they did it. without prejudice, uh, leaving the door. open that they could ultimately refile, that signifies something, too, >> right? That could be a warning. They. could say off the record to the lawyer, we're going to we're going to take these. charges off the table as long as he. behaves and we can bring him back. Now, at some point, they'd have a statute of. limitations to confront. I mean, they. can't wait forever to bring a trespass. charge. I don't know how many years it. is, but you know, they they might say to.

them, "Stay away from the dude and we're. not going to move on these charges.". >> Do you think they want to see how the. American Fork case plays out first? >> Well, there was no need to drop the. charges to see that. You could have. simply Yeah, >> you could have simply waited to see how. the other case played out and then made. a decision about dropping it. I mean, this is a this is a partial victory for. him, though. >> Sure. Yeah. >> Sure. It takes some pressure off not to. be prosecuted. I I don't know, you know,

I don't think he was under any real. threat of going to jail. Uh it's not. that kind of case. So, I don't know how. much pressure he was under. Also, I'd. have to say from viewing a little bit of. his content, I think he used the fact. that he was being prosecuted in an. effort to build his brand and attract. followers, right? Yeah. >> So, does it help him not to be. prosecuted anymore? Maybe it hurts him. >> Well, what do you think about his most. recent online activity? I talked about. it before. He hasn't really been quiet. Um, I mean, you know, he's he's doing.

different investigations. He's really. has a huge following, but he I mean he. he opened a bricks and mini pig store. He opened I mean not a bricks and mini. he opened his own Lego store. That'd be. more accurate. >> Well, he's got so so purely from the. point of view of a guy who's in maybe, you know, criminal proceedings and civil. proceedings. The the advice to him would. be shut up, you know, don't do anything. You just got to litigate the cases. But. he makes his living online. He's he's.

building a brand. He has to communicate. So he did that one video a while ago. where he was like, "This is my final. comment.". >> Yes. >> On this and and then it wasn't. >> Well, because there were certain, you. know, he claimed the court his right to. speak, his his first amendment right was. being violated. Um there's now. conditions put in place where he's. agreed to not, you know, harass them or. or go near them. Um doesn't mean he. can't open up a Lego store. It is. interesting though. I think about this. and I wonder not only the criminal cases.

and you know how Provo and American Fork. um are connected or possibly connected. but well actually let's just start there. before I talk about the civil case. Do. you think based on what happened with. the Provo prosecutors that's going to. affect American Fork? Do you think. they're going to do something similar? Do you think they're in conversation at. all? Do you think the cases are related? Not. >> what are the charges in American Fork? >> So stalking. So stalking. I'm going to. read you actually the the actual charges. here. Um, so in Provo it was disorderly.

conduct. It's a a class C misdemeanor, criminal trespass, a class B. misdemeanor. Then in American Fork, it's. stalking, a class A misdemeanor, and. targeted residential picketing, a class. B misdemeanor. This far east of Utah, I. have no idea if these prosecutors are. acting together or have talked or have. communicated. I have no idea if the. American Fork prosecutors find the Provo. prosecutor's actions to be meaningful.

Uh I will say I also think it's a. tickytacky case in American Fork. I. mean, well, yeah, the guy's not. >> It's hard to know where to draw the line. between somebody who's. trying to do an investigation in aid of. his podcast and his YouTube channel, which people are doing. There's a lot of. people out there doing things like that. But of course, they can't be too.

intrusive. When does it become stalking, right? when does it cross the line? >> And I think if you're able to get him to. if the authorities get involved and he. leaves the guy alone, your job is done. Yeah. I I don't know what you need to. prosecute after that. The point was to. have him stop it and that part he. appears to have stopped. >> What do you make of the civil case? Because I find this really interesting. in a number of different ways, right? bricks and mini figs has basically gone. after him for defamation, conspiracy,

other uh causes of action. And as I. mentioned, as part of that, he has to. stay away from bricks and mini fig. stores. He can't seek private. confidential information from their. employees. He can't threaten the. company, harass anybody. But, you know, it makes an interesting argument about. is he making money off of what, you. know, his coverage of this and what the. claims are. And it just seems to me like. if you were representing him at this. point, what would you be advising him to.

do or not do? >> Well, I'd want to know the answer to the. question you just asked. I mean, presumably he's making some money off of. it because he has a YouTube Yes. >> platform that I assume is monetized at. his level of subscriptions and viewers, right? And so he's put out content about. this that probably literally has made. him money. Yes. >> Because of views of that content. So if. I was advising him, I would say, "Ben, uh, how much are you making? How.

important is this to you?" Right? Let's. try to figure out the extent to which. you need to continue this because I. assume one of his options is to make a. deal with bricks and what miniigs. >> Minigs that he'll stop. >> and then the litigation can go away. But. what is the financial cost to him of. stopping? What is the reputational cost. to him of stopping? How important is it. that he continues to do that? I would. want to know that in order to try to.

negotiate a resolution. I assume that. civil litigation will be resolved at. some point. I don't expect a trial in. that case. >> But when you listen to him and when I. interviewed him, this means something to. him. He's really bothered by what. happened with this family, this Menel. family, trying to get their Lego. collection back and and feeling jipped. And to me, it doesn't seem like he wants. to drop it. To me, it seems like he. might want to take this to trial to not. only defend himself, but tell his sort. of narrative, whether it's in the. criminal case or even the civil case.

And so, it it does present an. interesting perspective for him, right? I mean, he doesn't seem like he wants to. be backing down. They settle with the. family, >> right? But that takes the wind out of. his sales a little bit. >> They they've ended the fundamental. controversy that started all of this. They've settled. I assume that means. have paid some money to the family and. that's been resolved. So, does he still need to tell the. story? I accept your premise. Your. premise is he's not just making content. to make money. He also has feelings.

about this particular case. I accept. that premise. I think from what I've. seen, that sounds right to me. >> Um, but is that a fight that he needs to. continue. where they've settled with the ultimate. victims? >> Yeah. No, that that's fair. And look, I. think it's interesting that he's doing. these side investigations that are. unrelated to this whatsoever. Because if. he's making a lot of money off of that, maybe it goes to the legal bills, maybe. because Let me ask you this. In a in a. civil case, if he were to lose, would.

they be entitled to what he's earned on. YouTube from this? >> Well, they could they they could. conceptualize damages in that way. Really, the damages there's a defamation. case at its core. So the damage would be. the harm to the reputation of bricks and. mini figs. They could show that by. demonstrating, for example, they could. show a sales trend. If their sales. suddenly dived at the time of his. defamatory statements, they could make a. case that he caused that. The the damage.

should be based on the harm to them. But. they can make an argument. You do make. an argument sometimes in civil cases. that damages can be assessed by the. benefit or the unjust enrichment of the. defendant. So they could I'm sure they. would take discovery on and use whatever. he's making posting these videos. >> I think this is a fascinating. conversation. I think it's a fascinating. legal conversation. I think it's. fascinating um the story behind it. I.

didn't know anything about the Lego. community. Yeah, I didn't know anything. about bricks and mini figs. I have. learned a lot and I've learned a lot. about Reckless Ben. >> Well, you know why? You know why? But. you know why it's so interesting? Be. because he's an interesting dude and the. underlying story is interesting. I agree. with all that. But there are at last. count 10 million reckless bends on the. internet investigating all kinds of. things and the ground rules for who can.

do what in aid of a a podcast. Everybody in America has a podcast. I. have a podcast, right? Anybody can have. one. That's how I know that. So all. these people are running around doing. this thing and setting the rules of the. road in a case like this of some. notoriety. That's what's interesting. about it. When is it when is it legit. >> broadcasting and when is it stalking. >> and when does it cross the line? So this. will be maybe an interesting. determination since there's a lot of.

eyeballs on it. Uh Rich Shenstein, good. seeing you. Thanks for taking the time. >> My pleasure. And that's all we have for. you right now here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so much for joining. us. Like and subscribe. I'm Jesse Weber. See you next time.