Highlighting Key Witness Testimonies in Johnny Depp v Amber Heard Trial (Sidebar Podcast EP. 15)

and for Johnny you know his family has. been completely wrecked by all of this. stuff and it's not it's it's. not uh. it's not fair it's not right what. happened what she did and what happened. for so many people to get affected from. this it's I it's insane.

this is how this happened no sugar. coating that that's Isaac Baruch Johnny. Depp's friend testifying that clearly he. doesn't believe Amber heard's abuse. allegations hey everybody Welcome to. sidebar presented by law and crime where. we recap the biggest moments in the. day's biggest trials I'm Jesse Weber so. we're talking the ongoing trial of. Johnny Depp versus Amber Heard out in. Fairfax County Virginia Depp is suing. his ex-wife for 50 million dollars. claiming defamation namely that she.

falsely accused him of domestic violence. in a 2018 Washington Post op-ed piece. and that that article ruined his life. and his career now she's actually. countersuing him for 100 million dollars. saying that he defamed her when he. publicly called her a liar and that she. created a hoax about him being an abuser. now there's no court this week it's a. pre-scheduled week where court is dark. they're going to be back Monday May 16th. with Amber Heard back on the stand so we. thought we'd be it would be a good. opportunity to do something a little.

different previous episodes we played. key moments from Amber heard's testimony. Johnny Depp's testimony but what about. everybody else who's testified so far. that's why we're going to go through. some of the most important testimony of. other Witnesses and probably the best. place to start is with Dr Laurel. Anderson Johnny and Amber's marriage. counselor in in working with um Amber. and Mr death. did Amber ever report to you any.

physical violence on behalf of Mr Depp. toward Amber. yes. what type of physical violence did she. report to you. do you recall seeing photos from Amber. Heard I I have but I don't remember when. I saw them. what do you recall about the photos. her face was bruised do you recall what. where on her face you saw on Amber's. face you saw verses I think they were. around her eyes but I couldn't be. positive.

did you witness abuse by either I didn't. yes I didn't witness had you worked with. Mr death before working with Amber and. Mr doubt yeah. is it your testimony that. well Mr Deb may have said he wasn't. violent with. any of his other partners. there was violence between for Mr death. toward Amber correct yes you're right.

he had he had had been well controlled I. think for almost I don't know. 20 30 years and uh both were victims of. Youth in their homes but I thought he. had been well controlled for decades and. then with Ms heard he was triggered and. they engaged in what I saw as Mutual. abuse okay so she like many other. Witnesses we've heard from never saw.

Johnny Depp physically assault. physically abuse Amber Heard but like. we've seen in other bits of testimony. and some other evidence there appears to. be injuries to Amber Heard the separate. question of if they're real or did she. manufacture the bruises or could they. have been caused by something else other. than death this is just going to be a. major point in this case for the jury to. decide but the fact that she says there. was Mutual abuse that is not great for. Johnny Depp because if the jury finds.

just even one act of abuse whether it be. physical emotional mental verbal the. most likely Depp would lose his case. because they could say hey Amber Heard. didn't lie in the article about being a. victim however helping Johnny Depp's. case or helping the idea that heard did. in fact a lie is that when police were. called to an alleged domestic violence. incident Adept La Penthouse in 2016. heard claim that you know death attacked.

her but when police arrived listen to. what they found or maybe didn't find did. you see any swelling of any kind on her. face either do it during the first time. you saw her or the second time you saw. her that night. no did you see any marks on her face. either the first time you observed her. that night or the second time you. observed her just the redness for which. was consistent with her crying.

did you did you see any time that night. any indication of any bruising on her. face no. did you see at any time that evening any. any indication or any sign whatsoever of. any injury to her face no during your. investigation you had other reasons to. believe what was true. that was a verbal dispute. what did you have during.

the investigation. created in your mind evidence that it. was only a verbal dispute. after discussing the investigation with. my partner at the scene. the misheard. refused any medical treatment and had no. visible injuries there was no sign of. struggle and the victim or correction. the witness that was there that I spoke. with.

was uncooperative as well. anything else. at this time it's all on one hand you. have trained police officers like Tyler. Hadden who didn't observe any signs of. domestic violence just a verbal dispute. this is something that they're trained. in this is something that they have. experience in but on the other hand it. is common for victims to not report a. crime also on cross-examination these. officers were shown to not take notes. and perhaps they kind of rushed to. judgment here I shouldn't point out that.

in the UK trial where Depp was suing the. publisher of the Sun for an article that. called him a wife beater the judge in. that case who found that Johnny Depp did. abuse Amber Heard the judge took issue. with the fact that the officers didn't. take notes. now through this case Depp has been key. that he wants to not only clear his name. but reframe the entire narrative he. wants to show both in the courtroom and. for the whole world watching not only is. he not the abuser but he was the victim.

he testified that he was physically. attacked by Amber Heard and that brings. us to the testimony of Travis mcgiver. and Johnny Depp's bodyguard who unlike. other Witnesses claims he actually saw. this abuse firsthand but then there were. also moments of. uh. yelling and anger from from both of them. and at some point I witnessed Miss heard. throw a Red Bull Camp she was. agitated.

Mr Depp was agitated. I felt it was time to get Mr Depp out of. the situation so I stepped. in between Miss heard and Mr Depp. um. telling Mr Depp that we were that we. were leaving and that it wasn't up to. him anymore. um. at that point. out of the corner of my eye I saw a fist. and an arm come.

across my right shoulder and uh. I heard and saw a. closed fist contact Mr Depp and the left. side of his face. and whose fist was that. that was misheard's fifth Amber heard's. fifth that is powerful testimony for. Johnny Depp but mcgivern he did. acknowledge that Depp has been verbally.

abusive towards Amber Heard and that in. fact he saw Johnny Depp throw all of. Amber heard's clothes down from the. racks at one point again the jury if. they believe that they could see this as. Amber Heard as the victim and believe. she didn't commit defamation this. podcast is sponsored by surf shark VPN. Safety and Security online should be. important to everybody whether you're. shopping online or clicking on something. or reading an article the amount of. times that you're tracked and traced and.

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money-back guarantee meaning there is no. risk to you you surf with your own set. of rules the link is in the description. all right so a central issue in this. case is how did the Washington Post. article the very thing that Johnny Depp. is suing Amber Heard for how did that. article harm him it's a big factor in. defamation what did you lose how are you. harmed especially important for damages. and what you can recover if you win the. case. so Johnny Depp has been calling. witnesses to suggest well because of the. Washington Post op-ed he lost Pirates of.

the Caribbean 6. he became a pariah in. Hollywood he lost his ability to star in. big budget films and in fact an economic. damages examiner Mike Spindler testified. that Johnny Depp suffered lost earnings. totaling 40 million dollars now herd. side is saying the complete opposite. that Depp wasn't harmed by The. Washington Post article that everything. he lost was due to things before the. publication of the piece things that. Johnny Depp is not and cannot Sue Amber. Heard for right now giving the example.

of that listen to Amber heard's lawyers. cross-examined Mr Spindler so you're not. looking at whether the article published. in the UK in June 2018 calling Mr Depp a. wife beater caused him the damages. correct. correct you're not looking at whether. the lawsuit that he brought in the UK. against the publisher of that article. caused him those damages right. correct you're not looking at any of the. evidence that came out in that lawsuit. about alleged instances of abuse against.

Amber correct. correct. you're not looking at whether the. consequences of Mr Depp's drug and. alcohol use have caused in the damages. you're discussing correct. correct you're not looking at whether. the worsening performance at the box. office of Mr def's movies over time has. caused him the damages that you're. testifying about correct. correct and I'm not acknowledging any of. this being accurate I'm just saying that.

that wasn't part of my calculations sure. I understand I just want to want to make. clear what you didn't look at what. you're not opining on and so to round. that out you're not considering even the. impact of Amber obtaining a restraining. order in May 2016 and whether that may. have caused some damages that's not part. of your opinion correct well since we. were taking a look at lost bookings. using 2017 as a base year any activity. that preceded that would have been baked. into those calculations that way that is.

so critical because even when Johnny. Depp was on the stand he seemed to have. trouble articulating that it was the. article specifically that caused him. harm we move on though because we have. to talk about the conflicting testimony. of two major Witnesses so first Johnny. Depp calls Dr Shannon Curry a forensic. psychologist who examined heard thank. you for many opinions with respect to Ms. heard I did what were those opinions. I uh the results of Ms heard's. evaluation supported two diagnoses.

borderline personality disorder and. histrionic personality disorder. so emotional reactivity is very common. in the diagnosis. so essentially uh like I said there's. instability and emotions people with. borderline personality disorder are. often misdiagnosed as having bipolar. disorder because they can be up and down. they can look very depressed then they. can look very elated but these changes. are happening within a matter of hours.

somebody with bipolar disorder these are. this is a clinical depression lasting. days weeks a clinical Mania where. sometimes they even need to be. hospitalized because they're so. grandiose they clear out their bank. account and go to Vegas and spend it all. they're acting in some very bizarre ways. with uh borderline personality disorder. you're having these fluctuating moods. constantly and again this. hypersensitivity to being slighted or. feeling offended really driven by the.

fear that if you're offended or slighted. if the therapist comes in two minutes. late or if somebody shows up to dinner. two minutes late that they might be. abandoning you and it's not as if the. borderline is considering themselves. abandoned in that moment but they just. know that they have this overwhelming. emotion and there are no attempts to. control that emotion there's no there. are no attempts to regulate it so if. they're in the middle of the restaurant. and they feel offended they're going to. start the fight people are going to see.

it or they might just start crying or. break down but they'll make a lot of. accusations and that reactivity is when. you're gonna just you're gonna see a lot. of this escalation the bizarre behavior. they can react violently they can react. aggressively they will often physically. prevent their partner from trying to. leave if their partner wants to get. space from all of this intense emotion. and oftentimes they will be abusive to. their Partners in these situations they.

might say that they are going to file a. restraining order or claim abuse or they. might do these things to essentially try. to keep their partner from leaving in. the moment again they're not consciously. thinking I'm going to keep my partner. from leaving right now they're just. thinking I can't stand this I hate my. partner they went from idealizing to. suddenly devaluing because it's a hurt. and they'll do anything to express that. big emotion of anger this is huge. because if the jury believes Dr Curry.

then Amber Heard is someone who's. unstable she's violent prone to. outbursts and someone who exaggerates. victimhood. her testimony lined up perfectly with. all of the other witnesses that. testified in depths came up to get. similar things about Amber Heard so in. other words the jury could say you know. what Amber Heard was not the victim of. domestic abuse as she claims she made up. these accusations against Johnny Depp. maybe to try to hold on to him in the. relationship or maybe to seek attention. I mean Dr Curry even says that Amber. Heard was faking symptoms of PTSD.

misheard did not have PTSD. and there were also pretty significant. indications that she was grossly. exaggerating symptoms of PTSD when asked. about them how did you make that latter. conclusion. so one of the strengths of this test as. I mentioned the important thing about. any test used when you're doing an. evaluation in forensics is to make sure. that the person is responding accurately. and this test does that by not just.

asking people whether they have a. symptom but asking follow-up questions. that draw out very detailed accounts of. every single symptom of PTSD and when. you're really familiar with this. disorder which you need to be to. administer this test. there are nuances in the way a person. will describe their symptoms that have. been shown repeatedly to indicate. exaggeration or faking there are also.

indications. when somebody is clearly giving you a. genuine response again this is great for. Deb. but then the first witness called by. Amber Heard side when they began their. case is their forensic psychologist Dr. Don Hughes who had a completely opposite. conclusion from Dr Curry did you arrive. at any expert opinions yes I did all. right I'm going I'd like to start with. your main expert opinions and then go. through those can you please tell the.

jury what your main opinions were. um so like I said there are opinions. embedded within them but the main. opinion is that um Miss herd's report of. intimate partner violence and the. records that I reviewed is consistent. with what we know in the field about. intimate partner violence characterized. by physical violence psychological. aggression sexual violence coercive. control and surveillance behaviors. and what was the other uh main opinion.

that you had. um the second main opinion was that. um that miss her demonstrated very clear. psychological and traumatic effects or. the exacerbation of Trauma from those. statements that Mr debt made through his. attorney there were three statements. that we evaluated to see how they. affected her emotionally and. psychologically and it was in my. determination that they did. and did you arrive at any diagnostic.

conclusions yes I did and what were. those I diagnosed misheard with. post-traumatic stress disorder Dr Curry. testified that one test showed quote. intentional exaggeration in the 98th. percentile meaning that she engaged in. extreme levels of exaggeration end of. quote do you agree with that I do not. why. because that test the scale that she is. referring to is the it's called ATR it's. the atypical response scale as I said.

that combines rare symptoms and over-end. door symptoms it's very frequently. elevated in people who have high levels. of distress and then importantly on this. test specifically it says do not use the. percentile rank it is in the manual it. is the nitalacies because the way that. this test was normed it was normed on. people who have trauma so it's what we. call negatively skewed that means it. falls on the tail end of the Continuum. it is not a normal curve where we would.

normal think we normally think of how a. percentile would work so you would not. use the percentile rank on this test. according to Dr Hughes herd doesn't have. borderline personality disorder she. isn't faking the symptoms of PTSD and in. fact hurt is showing signs of being a. victim of intimate partner violence. namely at the hands of Johnny Depp I. mean talk about a tough job for the jury. trying to sort out which professional to. believe here now it's possible and we've. kind of seen this before in other cases. the jury could say you know what I can't.

determine which of these experts to. believe I'm going to cancel both of them. out and focus just on the other evidence. in the case but really this is just a. microcosm of a lot of the conflicting. testimony that the jury is going to have. to weigh and it is definitely not an. easy job for them thanks for joining us. here on sidebar please subscribe on. Apple podcast Spotify YouTube or. wherever you get your podcast I'm Jesse. Weber speak to you next time. [Music].

thank you.