High School Rapist Gets Big Win in Court, Again

This is a major court ruling for the. teenage victims of brutal sexual. assault. This [music] is another big. development for their rapist. The teens. had blasted the Oklahoma court for. allegedly violating victims' rights laws. by giving [music] Jesse Butler. practically no punishment. on serious felony charges like rape and. strangulation. And now the court has. handed down a ruling about whether or. not their rights have been violated and. this is definitely going to have a. reaction. Welcome to Sidebar presented.

by Law & Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. All right, real quick before we go any. further, we have a Law & Crime legal. alert we have to tell you about, okay? Roblox. Roblox is under fire for. allegedly not taking adequate safety. measures to protect children on its. platform. That's right. So, this popular. virtual universe has millions of users. who are minors. Yet the players can. apparently customize their avatars to. hide their age and gender and this is a. feature that may also be available to.

predators with bad intentions. Look, you. might not even realize the dangers that. Roblox can pose for your child, but if. your child was sexually abused or. assaulted or groomed by someone they met. on Roblox, you may qualify for potential. compensation. Children, they may not. know better, but Roblox, the argument is. they should. And our legal sponsors are. seeking justice for the families who are. affected by this alleged gross. negligence. So, visit. gamingadvocates.com. to start your free confidential case. evaluation. In Stillwater, Oklahoma,

Jesse Butler's name might as well be. mud. His case in Payne County, Oklahoma. court was thrust into the national, even. international spotlight when it was. discovered that despite pleading no. contest to heinous sexual assault. charges, his case was reclassified. allowing him to be considered a youthful. offender and seriously lessening his. punishment. Because you see, Butler was. facing years in prison after being. charged with almost a dozen felonies. The former high school baseball player.

reportedly attacked at least two. different girls that he had been dating, even putting one in the hospital, all. while outwardly appearing to be, you. know, the perfect boyfriend. But you had. these accusations of misconduct and. possibly even corruption that were. swirling around on behalf of Payne. County and it sparked blowback. Because. the question became why was he receiving. such essentially lenient punishment, lenient treatment? Was there a family. connection? I don't know. Was there a. deliberate attempt to keep Butler's.

punishment minimal? Did the district. attorney's office mislead the victims. and their families in order to give. Butler what has been called a so-called. sweetheart deal? Because that was one of the things a new. judge was looking at during a review of. this case. This was prompted by filings. from victims' rights counsel. And we're. going to dig into the judge's decision. and what happens next, but I want to. just give you a quick rundown of this. case and where we are, okay? The two. victims, known by their initials KS and. LS, eventually realized that they both.

experienced horrific treatment at the. hands of their ex. Butler's actions were. reported to police in 2024. Arrest. warrants were issued in January and. February of 2025, but they weren't. executed for weeks. Butler was finally. arrested on March 4th. And all the. while, the girls were still attending. Stillwater High School where Butler was. a senior. So, he was charged in adult. court with two counts of attempted rape. in the first degree, three counts of. rape by instrumentation, one count of. sexual battery, one count of forcible. oral sodomy, and one count domestic.

assault and battery and two counts of. domestic assault and battery by. strangulation. And Butler was also. charged with violating a protective. order that apparently one of his victims. had taken out against him. And at the. time of the crimes, Butler was 17 years. old, but he was 18 when he sentenced, okay? So, keep that in mind, the age. Now, the accusations that were laid out. in two police affidavits are terrible. LS claimed that one time after getting. ice cream, Butler drove her to a parking. lot and tried to rape her in his car.

According to the affidavit, LS reported. she yelled and told him no repeatedly. and tried to push him off of her, but. was unable to overpower him. LS reported. Butler told her he was sorry for what he. was about to do, but he had to do it. And then when ostensibly taking her back. to her own car, he allegedly warned, "You're not going until I'm finished.". The other girl, KS, claims that Butler. assaulted her, too. In the affidavit. that was related to her case, there was. an investigator that detailed what she. said happened when she was house sitting.

for a family friend. Quote, "Butler. expressed a desire to have sexual. intercourse with her at the house. KS. reported she did not want to do anything. at the house. Butler became angry, came. up behind her, put his arm around her. neck and strangled her to. unconsciousness. She could not breathe, scratched at his arms and tried to get. away, but could not free herself." KS. woke up on the floor of the living room. after losing consciousness. KS reported. there were red marks across her neck. after Butler strangled her. Approximately 15 minutes after.

strangling her, Butler initiated sexual. intercourse with her. And KS also claimed that Butler had. recorded himself choking her. Police say. they later found those images on his. phone. Now, the body cam footage shows. the moment detectives arrived at. Butler's home to arrest him and ended up. dealing with his mother, too, by the. way. Hello. Hello. Are you Jackie? Hi, Jackie. I'm Detective Bruce with the. Stillwater Police Department. Um we're. here because we have a warrant for. Jesse's arrest. I assume you know about.

that already. Okay, is he here? >> Yes. Okay. >> Told him not to answer the door till I. got home. He's scared to death, so. So, here's here's what's going to. happen. Like, we're going to take him. into custody. There his bond is 25,000. Once he gets to the jail and we get him. booked in, well, I guess on the way to. the jail, I guess, you could contact a. bondsman. Yeah. And or I mean, if you. have 25 grand lying around, you can do. that. But um if you contact a bondsman, then they can post his bond and he can. get right out today. Okay. So, um and.

>> What kind of time frame does that look. like just out of curiosity? Like, midnight tonight or. an hour? >> you can contact a bondsman and it would. be like an hour and a half or something. >> Baker. I'm sure y'all Yeah. So, >> She's the one that told me. It's a. pretty quick process. We just like have. to get him booked in and then once he's. booked in Okay. Um and just so you know, he is a juvenile, so he won't be like. with any adults. Like, we're. He can't be housed with any adults. >> Okay. Um so, there is a chance that he. may be moved over to Payne County, but. for right now, depending on how long it.

takes you to get. um get with her and get bond set up. >> back, so. Then um then he'll probably. just be at our facility at the city of. Stillwater. Okay. >> And she can come over there. >> Um it just like we can only hold him for. 6 hours. >> Oh, okay. So, if I get it done now, we're good. He's not going to be moved. >> No. Okay, perfect. Okay. He shouldn't. be. The only big hold up is if we have. somebody else in the jail cuz we can't. have them intermingle. Um so, if they're booking somebody in, it could hold us up like maybe 15, 20. minutes, something like that, but it's. not going to be a long.

thing generally. And we're ready to honestly tell our. story, too. Yeah. Yes, it's Mom. Open the door. Give me your. wallet and phone and stuff, so. Your what? They're in the closet. What. Okay, it's fine. It It's not locked or. anything, is it? Okay. So, can you tell. him what you just told me or Yeah. Um.

so, we're here. Um we're obviously going. to place you under arrest. There's a. warrant for your arrest. We're going to. take you to the jail. Um I told your mom. that she can contact a bondsman. and um you shouldn't be very there very. long. Um but there just is a process for. paperwork and stuff. Um but right now, you do have to come with us and I do. have to put you in handcuffs, so turn. around for me. You have to put him in handcuffs? I. Yeah, I would prefer to transport. somebody in custody. I love you.

You know where we live, right? It's okay. Yeah, love you. Hey, Jackie. Yeah. I'll get you out. Hear me? All right. Stay silent. Break no news. about this. Candy's on this. Dad's on. his way. We're coming to get you, okay? Stay strong, okay? Say your prayers. Okay. So, we will He's going to go right. to the city of Stillwater jail and if. you'll just contact her, then she She. knows She'll just hold the time and she.

knows what to do. Yeah. >> knows Stillwater Police Department I. County. Stillwater Police Department. The one Lewis. Yeah. Let them know that we're the ones. that picked him up. And when you say we are the ones. Stillwater PD. Stillwater PD. Yeah, okay. That way they don't think he went. like straight over and drove up to the. county. Stillwater PD. Awful experience. Are you passing out?

I'm going to pat you down. Spread your. feet for me. Nothing in your socks. Love you, Jess. Love you, Dad. So, soon after his arrest, according to. the court docket, Butler was bailed out, spent very little if any time behind. bars. You go to August of 2025,

seemingly out of the blue, the court. grants Butler youthful offender or Y O. status. So, instead of being sentenced. to prison, Butler receives probation, counseling, community service, social. media ban, a restitution payment. Now, if he fails, he could face reportedly a. 10-year prison sentence, but if he. completes it, his record sealed, it's. essentially like nothing ever happened. legally. I mean, we all know it's all. reported what happened. But according to. their attorneys, the victims in these.

cases, the victims and their families. were stunned by this development saying. they never would have supported a plea. deal that meant no jail time for Butler. So, what did they do? The victims went on the offensive. Rachel Busset, who we've had on this. program before, an attorney for one of. the victims' mothers, submitted a filing. titled "A Verified Motion to Enforce. Victims' Constitutional Rights for. Corrective Hearing and for Modification. of Youthful Disposition in Compliance. with Marsy's Law." Now, Marsy's Law is. essentially a nationwide effort to not.

only protect victims' privacy, but also. make sure that they're aware of all the. steps in the legal process and that. their rights are considered. Understandably, you want to protect. victims' rights in criminal cases. Now, according to Busset's motion, the. victims had apparently not been kept in. the loop about what was happening behind. the scenes with this case. According to. the motion, KS was having surgery for a. broken leg on June 12th and she and her. family had no idea such an order was. being entered. On July 23rd, 2025, KS. had a meeting with the District Attorney. in preparation for the July 24th.

hearing. KS was a minor and did not have. a a parent present or her attorney. present. KS was told they weren't going. to practice because there was a plea. deal. The DA told KS not to tell her. mother. Around 12:00 p.m., the DA called. KS's mother and advised her that she'd. agreed to a plea deal where Butler would. plead guilty and serve time in a. juvenile facility in exchange for a YOA. sentence. The family was not provided. any other specifics of the deal for the. YOA certification. Goes on to say, "The District Attorney.

did not advise or confirm with KS, her. parents, or the LS family before. entering into plea negotiations or. agreeing to the plea deal or the YOA. certification. On August 22nd, 2025, the. District Attorney advised KS and her. family and LS family that there was no. guilty plea. The DA further advised that. Butler's attorney had stated he was. never going to advise his client to. plead guilty. This directly contradicted. what they were previously told about why. the DA agreed to the YOA certification. KS and her parents expressly objected. and did not consent to any plea that did.

not include imprisonment. The DA told. LS's family that they could start all. over at the beginning. The District. Attorney stated she would continue plea. negotiations and follow up with them. over the weekend. District Attorney. stated to KS's mother, Yvonne Sweeney, that "We're supposed to include the. families in discussions about these. things. Sometimes that is a mistake." KS. and her mother understood this to mean. the state thought including the family. in the discussion was a mistake. Okay, so there you go. Those were their. claims, their allegations, their. narrative. Busset.

made the argument that Butler's crimes, this is massive. This is massive. Now, attorney Busset argued, quote, "The. defendant's conduct was not a single. youthful indiscretion, but a pattern of. escalating violence over approximately. 11 separate incidents during a 7- to. 8-month period." And so, KS's mother. gave a victim impact statement in court. and objected to the case's outcome. But. here's the deal. Butler, he was able to. plead no contest, so no allocution, no.

admission of guilt, got no jail time. And with the pressure mounting to ensure. that the victims in this case got. justice, Judge Michael Cullin held a. multi-day hearing earlier this year to. hear from the prosecution, to hear from. the victims' attorneys cuz he was. looking to determine if in fact the. victims' rights were violated during. this process. Something I have to keep. in mind, by the way, Judge Cullin is not. the same judge who accepted Butler's. plea deal. No, that was Judge Susan. Worthington. And by the way, back in.

January, The Oklahoman reported that the. Council on Judicial Complaints released. findings of an investigation into Judge. Worthington. And the council reportedly. determined that there was no evidence. supporting any allegations of. misconduct. By the way, typically the. council wouldn't even release its. findings into confidential. investigations, but the administrative. director, uh Taylor Henderson Henderson, told The Oklahoman, quote, "The. misinformation surrounding this case. really just took on a life of its own. and would not stop. And the council felt. that without stepping in and assuring.

the public that there's no wrongdoing. here, that it was going to continue." I. mean, this is the case for transparency. Makes sense. And The Oklahoman reports. that activists and protesters believe. that Worthington should have recused. herself from the case because apparently. she had graduated from Oklahoma State. University, so that was the same school. where Butler's father had been head of. the football team. But the council. found, again, that there was no. connection between their two families, so no conflict. And the council's. report, according to The Oklahoman, also. pointed out that Butler was never.

actually facing decades in prison as had. been reported. Yeah, so if all of his. felony sentences were served. consecutively, yes, it would have been. about 78 years, but The Oklahoman. reports that state law says they would. have been served concurrently, so he. would have spent 10 years behind bars. And the council also reportedly spoke. with eight witnesses who had direct. knowledge of Worthington's involvement. in Butler's case and none of the. witnesses reported any misconduct. So, going back to Judge Cullin, okay? So, for his part, Judge Cullin offered a new.

perspective on this controversial case. And we got our hands on the ruling, quote, "Movants assert two primary bases. for relief. One, that they were not. treated with fairness and dignity, and. two, that they were not adequately. informed of plea negotiations nor. afforded a meaningful opportunity to. confer with the state. Both Article 2, Section 34 of the Oklahoma Constitution. and Title 21, uh OS 142A provides. victims the right to be informed of. proceedings, including plea. negotiations, and the right to confer. with the attorney for the state. However, neither provision confers upon.

victims the authority to direct, control, or veto prosecutorial. decision-making. The absence of such. language is significant. Movants contend. they were not treated with fairness and. dignity during the prosecution of the. case. The evidentiary record reflects. that representatives of the District. Attorney's Office met with movants on. multiple occasions, provided updates. regarding the status of the case, discussed plea negotiations, and engaged. the assistance of a victim advocate to. support movants throughout the process. The state also welcomed participation by.

movants' retained counsel. The court. acknowledges that certain. communications, particularly those. addressing the evidentiary strengths and. weaknesses of the case prior to the. filing of charges, were by their nature. difficult and at times distressing. However, candid and direct discussion of. such matters is an inherent and. necessary aspect of prosecutorial. evaluation and does not, without more, constitute a failure to treat victims. with fairness and dignity. So, the court. found that the victims were notified of. Butler's original plea deal as well as.

his attempt to change his plea and plead. no contest. And quote, "Based upon the. totality of the evidence, the court. finds that movants were informed of plea. negotiations and were afforded the. opportunity to confer with the attorney. for the state. While movants clearly. disagreed with the outcome of those. negotiations, dissatisfaction with the. result does not equate to a denial of. rights guaranteed under Oklahoma law.". So, to talk about the decision, to talk. about what could possibly happen next, I. want to bring in practice professor of. law and former child abuse prosecutor.

Marion Bracha. Thank you so much for. taking the time. Um are you surprised by. this decision? Unfortunately, I'm not. surprised. Uh there is a a particularly. high burden to show that constitutional. rights were violated for the victims. Um. even though the standard is a. preponderance of evidence standard, which is more likely than not, it is. it's not surprising that there wasn't. evidentiary lacking, that there wasn't. enough evidence to show that that their. constitutional rights had been violated. What would have been, from a law school.

example, what would be a clear-cut. very simple fact pattern where you say, "My gosh, in this situation, uh victims, victims' family members, their rights. were violated when it came to uh plea. negotiations of a defendant or defendant. taking a deal or something of that. nature." What would be a clear-cut. example in your mind? Well, you know, I unfortunately, I'm not. sure that there is a clear-cut example. because all of these cases are so. fact-based and and have to be considered.

on a case-by-case basis. One of my. favorite judges in Pennsylvania often. says, "Everyone has a right to due. process. They don't necessarily have a. right to due result." So, while the. victims are are certainly and perhaps. understandably frustrated by the result. and were frustrated at the adjudication. of the original case and how it was. resolved, um unfortunately, they don't. have the authority No victim or witness. in in any criminal case has the. authority to dictate the result or how.

the prosecution handled it handles um. any case, which is within their. discretion to handle. So, I don't know. A clear-cut example might be if um uh. the victims were told they were not. permitted to speak at a sentencing or. were not permitted to give a victim. impact statement or were never notified. about the status of the proceedings. I- if there had been a showing that the. prosecutor had good and valid contact. information and then willfully chose to.

um exclude the victims from the. proceedings, but I think those are. pretty extreme examples and certainly. not examples that were present in the. instant case. What happens if a. prosecutor lied to a family? Well, if anybody if anybody lies, I. mean, they have any any um any attorney, as you know, has a duty of candor. So, if there is um. uh any proof of of. deceit or um. um dishonesty is shown either to the.

court or to the victims, that would be a. problem. That could be a disciplinary. issue for the prosecutor involved in the. case. Of course, that would also require. an evidentiary hearing. There would have. to be some proof on the record that the. prosecutor um as an officer of the court. presented false testimony or false. information. And again, that would if it. was under oath, that could be. potentially a perjury charge. At a. minimum, that would be a disciplinary. complaint to that um state board. And to. be clear, I'm not saying that happened.

in this case. I was just trying to. understand like what the standard is, what would be a clear violation of. someone of a victim or victim's families. rights. Let me ask you this. Generally speaking, the standard, what. is the role of Marcy's Law? What is a. victim's rights? What is a victim's. family members rights? What are they. entitled to exactly? Well, in many states, and we're talking. about Oklahoma in this case, and and in. Pennsylvania where I live and practice, um the the rights of the victim are. codified in uh the Constitution, in the.

state Constitution. Um very basically. speaking, without going through each of. the subsections, basically a victim. [clears throat] has a right to. participate in the prosecution. A victim. has a right to know the status. [clears throat] of the case. They have a. right to know. when the case is going to be listed for. various proceedings, even if uh the. victim's testimony isn't needed at those. proceedings. They have a right to be uh. notified of how the case will be. resolved, meaning that if the.

prosecution or the the DA's office is. going to offer um uh any kind of offer. for non-trial disposition, meaning offer. the defense an opportunity to plead. guilty on some lesser charge or for some. lesser term of of incarceration or even. supervision, um the the victims have a. right to be notified to that. And here's. here's kind of the the catchphrase, have. a right Does the victims have a right to. provide prior comment? That means they. have a right to participate and say,

"Gee, I don't feel great about that." or. "I don't think that is the best way to. carry out justice in this case. Now, again, does that carry the day? Will. that ultimately sway a prosecutor to. proceed or not to proceed in a. particular way?" Not necessarily, but. that input should be considered by the. prosecution and should be considered by. the court if we're at a sentencing phase. and the victims are providing victim. impact uh testimony, but again, it.

doesn't have authoritative direction. The victims in the case don't have the. authority to say, "No, I disapprove of. offering this person an opportunity to. plead guilty." or "I disapprove or I. won't go along with offering this person. probation." or a juvenile um uh. adjudication. So so while they have an. opportunity to be heard and to weigh in, they don't have the ultimate say. Before. I get into what they could do next, uh. which I want to explore, um someone. might look at this and say, "I don't I. don't get it. Isn't all that matters the.

victim in this case? So isn't all that. matters the victim's family in this. case? Shouldn't they dictate what. happens to a criminal defendant? I mean, but at the end of the day, right? Prosecutors don't necessarily represent. the victim. They don't represent the. victim's family. Can you explain that. distinction and why, although it might. be frustrating for many people watching. this, why under the law that's. necessary? Absolutely, and that is a very important. distinction, and unfortunately, I do.

think that there is a very common. misconception about that. Prosecutors in. the courtroom, prosecutors in any state, in any jurisdiction in the United States. of America, do not represent the victim. They are not their personal attorneys. The prosecution is there to ensure that. justice is pursued. That even means. making sure that the rights of the. defendants are protected. That means. that if there is something happening. with defense counsel, if there is. ineffective counsel happening uh.

throughout the trial proceeding, it is. still the responsibility of the. prosecutor to bring that to the court's. attention and to ensure that even the. defendant, to ensure that all members of. the community have access to justice. So. they are not the personal. representatives of the victims. It's not. like you're at a civil case where it's. plaintiff suing defendant and they are. there solely um with with with their one. client's interest at. at stake. Um so when a prosecutor is in. a courtroom, they are thinking about the.

entirety of the community they. represent. That's why when they stand up. in the morning and and introduce. themselves to the court and to the court. members, they say what I used to say, "Marion Bracho on behalf of the. Commonwealth." or "Marion Bracho for the. people of the Commonwealth." It's not. just for this one individual person. who's involved in the case. And by the way, talking about uh Marion. Bracho, th- this is is so this is prosecutor. dependent, right? It's what they their. discretion on how or what they want to.

do here. The reason I ask is in in your. experience. uh as a prosecutor, how involved were. you with victims? How involved were you. with victims' family members? What did. you feel was necessary or appropriate? I Thank you for asking that. Um in the. kind of work that I did, all the cases. that I handled were very civilian heavy, meaning that it was all members of the. community who were the unfortunately the. victims or the complaining witnesses on. the cases. So it was it was day in and. day out all day speaking with members of.

the community who'd been affected by. crime in some way. Um there are other. kinds of cases that are expert heavy, that you're dealing with engineers, you're dealing with medical doctors, you're dealing with other kinds of of. expert witnesses. There are certainly. cases that are much more um. uh dependent upon police um or forensic. testimony, like drug cases that that. have to present um recovering officers. or lab testimony. Um the cases that I.

was handling, which is which were. largely domestic violence cases, intimate partner violence, and child. abuse cases, all involved and and. necessarily required the testimony and. the involvement of of civilian members. of our community. Um so it is very time. and and labor and emotion intensive um. because you become very. um um wrapped up in the lives of. individuals whose whose lives have been. really adversely impacted by some. unfortunate things. Um but again, you.

have to keep your. your your your head in the game and. remember what your priority is. And your. priority is making sure that justice is. served to the community at large and and. unfortunately not just for the person. who's sitting across the table from you. I appreciate you making that distinction. because on one hand, you are invested, you care, you understand the. ramifications of someone who's harmed, someone who's killed, right? Like you. understand the impact that that has. It. makes you drive this case forward. It. makes you want to seek justice against a. criminal defendant. But like you said,

you can't forget who your obligations to. are, what your duties are, and that's. where it can get kind of tricky. Um. which now I just want to circle back to. now what these families do, what these. victims do. This judge said, "No.". Um can they appeal this decision? Uh they they could appeal the decision. I I think that the decision of the the. trial judge who received the um. the evidence, who heard the testimony at. the hearing. And remember, there there. even at these proceedings, there was a.

hearing granted and the victims had an. opportunity to present their own. testimony through their own privately. retained counsel. So again, they weren't. doing this um what's what's called pro. se. They weren't doing this on their. own. Um they they had counsel who were. representing their individual. particularized interest to the court. And so the court did hear their. testimony. If this were to go up on. appeal to an intermediate court in. Oklahoma, um there is um a a high level. of deference that's given to uh the.

judge below because that is the judge. who heard the live testimony and. considered the case and considered um. the credibility of the witnesses before. him or her. So um the likelihood of this. being overturned on appeal, again, um. absent a showing of abuse of the judge's. discretion below, that likelihood is. pretty low. Now, somebody's listening this and say, "You know what? File a lawsuit. Intentional infliction of emotional. distress. Look what I Look what we have. to go through here. Uh this This is how. we're going to get justice is we're. going to file a lawsuit." Talk to me.

about the challenges of filing a lawsuit. either against a a DA, a court, how. there are certain protections put in. place. Uh walk me walk us through that. Yeah, that's a whole that's a whole. separate area of the law. So I I. actually thought you were going to ask a. different question. So I'll I'll I'll. I'll show. >> Like what did you think I was going to. ask? That was probably a better question. I should have asked. I was just trying. >> no, no. I'll I'll address both. So um. you know, if if you think back to. perhaps one of the most famous. prosecutions in in the history of this. country, right? The O.J. Simpson case.

Um the O.J. Simpson murder trial against. against um Nicole Brown Simpson. He was. acquitted of that case. criminally, found not guilty in the. criminal trial. However, the victim's. family, um Nicole Brown's family, represented by by her survivors, sued. O.J. Simpson in a civil proceeding and. were able to get a significant recovery. against him at a civil trial for. wrongful death. Different standard of. proof, right? In civil cases, the case.

has to be proven by by just a. featherweight to one side in favor of. the plaintiff. More likely than not, it's a preponderance of the evidence. It. tips the scale ever so slightly in favor. of the plaintiff. So could the victims. in this case. sue civilly uh the defendant who who. pled guilty or was adjudicated as a. juvenile? Absolutely, they could. If. they're within the statute of. limitations, that is an available option. to them because there is still civil. justice protected by the 7th Amendment. in this country. In order to sue the.

municipalities, the DA's office, um. uh the court system, that is a. completely separate area of law that's. covered in federal court under a section. called 1983. And that is again a very. high showing, um a high standard of. proof to show that there is a policy in. place that continually deprives people. um like these victims in the position. that they were in, deprives them of. their right to due process. Um is it is. it possible to prevail on those actions?

Absolutely. And and a lot of prisoner. rights cases have prevailed um under. Section 1983. Again, it's a it's a very. high standard to meet to show that there. is a continuing um policy within that. particular DA's office to violate the. substantive and and procedural due. process rights of the victims in their. community. Okay. Well, there you go. Um. interesting another chapter of this. story. Um. look, I can only imagine what uh the. victims and the victims' family members.

are going through uh after this, but uh. you know, look, I think you perfectly. explained this is the law, this is the. result, what we can expect happening. next. Uh Professor Miriam Barshak, always love having you on. Thank you so. much. Thanks, Jeff. And that's all we have for you right now. here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so. much for joining us. As always, please. subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you should get your. podcast. You can also check us out on. NBC's Peacock as well. If you want to. follow me, X, Instagram, my NewsNation. show, Jesse Weber Live, Monday through. Friday, 11:00 p.m. Eastern. I'll see you.

next time, everybody.