Grown Woman Punched 7-Year-Old in Face in Store Parking Lot: Cops

A Tennessee woman is under arrest after. police responded to reports that she. punched a seven-year-old child in the. face in a grocery store parking lot. We. are taking a look at everything we know. about this shocking case so far and how. it could play out in a court of law and. we're going to do that with a victim. rights lawyer. Welcome to Sidebar. presented by Law and Crime. I'm Jesse. Weber. 29-year-old Lauren Why is in a lot of. trouble in Knoxville, Tennessee right. now. Authorities there say she was. detained on Friday, October 3rd. And. this all stemmed from what allegedly.

happened at a Kroger grocery store on. Chapman Highway in South Knoxville. WBIR. reviewed an arrest warrant for Whlays. out what was reported to police when. they got to that parking lot at around. 7:00 p.m. And according to the. reporting, they get this report that. someone in the lot was hitting a child. in the face with a closed fist. In fact, a second witness ended up allegedly. backing up what the first witness told. officers. Now, aside from those witness. accounts, what the officers discovered.

when they spoke with the 7-year-old as. well as wheve investigators more. ammunition for what would eventually be. a felony child abuse charge. Okay, so to. talk about this case, I want to welcome. back here on Sidebar victim's rights. lawyer John Phillips. John, good to see. you. Thanks for taking the time. So, right off the bat, it is already a. shocking story, right? You're not only. talking about physically assaulting a. child. That's the allegation. And if. these allegations are true, but to do it.

in a public place, a grocery store. parking lot. That's what's shocking to. me about this. >> Yeah. It begs question of of, you know, mental health, sobriety, you know, history of abuse. what led. this person to to make not only bad. decisions, criminal decisions, but but. ones in public, >> right? And if the allegations are true, if someone is doing this in public, imagine what may be happening behind.

closed doors, right? This can't just be. I maybe, but this seems unlikely that if. the allegations are true, this is the. first time it ever happened, >> right? typically one that uses a closed. fist on a minor, you know, as. disciplinary action isn't that evolves, right? That's not something that I think. any parent or custodian or babysitter. should or would naturally do. It it's. it's it's not discipline. It's it's it's. battery. >> So, let's talk about this. When officers. arrived at this Kroger, according to.

WBIR, they talked to the reporting. witness who said that he saw whe dragged. this child by his arm into a white car. and then hit the child twice in the face. with a closed fist. And as I mentioned. before, there is apparently a second. witness who corroborated that. Now, let's start right there. Okay. Not every. day, John, you get witnesses. Not only. Not every day, you got two. I don't know. if they were spoke if they were you know. interviewed independently if they have a.

connection to each other or not but. assuming that they have no connection. they were they have independent. recollections of that pretty strong to. say the least. >> pretty strong to say the least Jesse you. you know usually. you you really just have the victim and. here you've got a victim that's a minor. you've got a victim that was kind of. hesitant to tell the truth and then the. accused who just avoided the. conversation entirely and So that alone. would make it a case that while you. might start off with a criminal charge.

winds up fizzling out before trial here. you've got two independent witnesses. So. it's hopefully you know cons you know. hopefully they're not a husband and wife. that were standing there telling the. police the same thing right at the same. time because then you got impeachment of. that. But you know here you you got a a. case that can kind of stand on its own. >> Let's talk about that. When police spoke. with this seven-year-old boy, okay, right, the alleged victim in this, he. told the officer at first that he had a.

nose bleed. WBI reports the officer. asked the child if someone had hit him, but the boy appeared to be hesitant to. answer that. He then apparently said. that he didn't feel it right here. So, pointing to the right side of his face. John, let's start here. First of all, how do officers have a conversation? How. do investigators have a conversation. with a child who is suspected of being. abused? How do they have that talk? >> It's tough and and one would hope Knox. County has, you know, the the training.

for that. That's certainly a separate. section of the protocol, you know, interviewing and dealing with minor. victims. I'm a parent of a 7-year-old, 11year-old, and an 8-year-old. I've been. through this stage three times now, you. know, without the abuse. And there's a. red alert that kind of or yellow alert. that arises with me with the kid saying. it's a nose bleed because again the the. the truth is usually spontaneous unless. a child knows to cover for something and. here you know has this child had nose.

bleeds before and nose bleeds tend to. never have facial trauma associated with. them. I guess the question is right it's. not uncommon for you to see if these. allegations are true a victim a minor. victim to not initially want to say what. happened. >> correct particularly if they've. repeatedly been a victim you know they. they if they know to cover they'll cover. if they don't you know they wouldn't. know that that's wrong if Johnny hit. them in little Johnny hit them in the. schoolyard they're not going to say that.

was a nose bleed they're usually going. to tell their teacher it was little. Johnny now when it's a custodian or a. parent or somebody they're trying to. protect Then you start to see cover and. lies. >> How does a defense attorney, if this. goes to trial, how does a defense. attorney question the credibility of. this child? >> Delicately, right? So, so it depends on. the relationship. Um, you know, if this.

is a cousin, if it's an aunt, if it's an. a, if it's a, if it's a babysitter, that's different because you really got. to get a history of the relationship. here to kind of ask the right questions. But it's always delicate. And, you know, sometimes that's exactly how cases. fizzle out, you know, and defense. attorneys win is you've got an. uncooperating victim. >> By the way, you know why we're able to. bring you stories like this? It's not. only because of the amazing support from. you all out there, but also from our. incredible sponsor, Morgan and Morgan, America's largest injury law firm, a.

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why not start a claim and fight for what. you deserve? Morgan andorggan makes it. so simple. You can start a claim from. your phone in just eight clicks. So, if. you're injured, you can easily start a. claim at forthepeople.com/lcidebar. by clicking the link below or scanning. the QR code on screen. I wonder if it's also suggesting how. young the child is and do they say what. are you learning in school? Have you. learned this? You know, not saying that. they're that this child is lying. Not.

saying that the child is making anything. up, but saying is the child experienced. enough to know what actually happened or. they are so young their account, their. description may not be what you think it. is. I don't know if that happens. I. don't know if that works. Um because if. you ask me just and you ask a lot of. people if the seven-year-old is saying. I'll tell you what happened, you know, how do you deny that? But I imagine is. that something a defense attorney could. do. >> That's right. And and and you know, you.

got to think of it from the standpoint. of a seven-year-old, too. I don't know. that and and I again, I've had three of. them through my household. I don't know. that a seven-year-old knows that a. closed fist is wrong and a slap is right. or a slap is wrong and a correction. right to the face. They I don't think. they know the different levels of. battery and what's where the line is. Adults know a closed fist on a child is. wrong, right? There's no discipline. where an adult can punch a. seven-year-old particularly in the face.

That just doesn't exist. That's abuse. period and battery period. But you you. can get into some nuance with. questioning about intent and what. happened right before this happened. But. right now we don't know those facts. >> Well, and to be clear and something I. should have clarified, eventually this. boy told officers or apparently told. officers that Wheel. According to the arrest warrant, this.

boy had dried blood on his shorts and. his leg and his face was red. Do they do. officers document that immediately, John? Are there photographs? Could the. blood be from this? Could it be from. something else? When you're dealing with. a young child, they're running around. They're doing things. How do they prove. that is evidence of the alleged abuse at. that parking lot? >> Right. And and again, it goes back to. what did Knox County's, you know, Knoxville police, how are they trained?

because I've had similar cases where the. officer pulls out their cell phone or. the department issued camera, takes. pictures or calls a supervisor that's in. the child abuse, you know, department or. bring somebody from the Department of. Children and Families or whatever the. equivalent is there to document it. And. then you have some that are like, okay, I'm just going to note it. And it's way. easier to impeach a police notation in a. report, right? Black and white versus a. photo. And that's where cases turn. You.

know, you the more evidence the better. when you're trying to uphold a criminal. charge as law enforcement and. prosecutors. >> So, you mentioned this before. Eventually, officers have to speak with. why, right? Well, WBI reports that she. was sitting in the driver's seat of the. car, the door was open, and she was. allegedly washing her hands with water. from a water bottle. John, not a great. look. >> Not a great look. What's she cleaning?

You know, you've got blood on the child, dried blood. You've got a kid talking. about his nose being bloody, and you've. got witnesses saying that there was a. punch and here you you've got what could. be argued as destruction of evidence, right? >> Yeah. Right. I mean, if you're cleaning. your hands and that is evidence, I guess. I think you make a good point. You know, apparently they asked her what happened. and she just kept saying that she needed. to get her phone. This is according to. the warrant and the documents also. indicate that why never ended up giving. investigators an explanation of what. happened. John, there's a lot to make.

there, right? I mean, does it. necessarily make her guilty? Because. if she really didn't do anything, wouldn't she want to explain this. situation? This is a total. misunderstanding what's going on. To not. say anything, you know, I guess the. defense attorney could say, "Hey, listen. She was just preserving her. rights. She just wanted to have an. attorney. she didn't want to say. anything. But also, I have to imagine a. reasonable alternative would to be. saying this is I have no idea what's. going on here.

>> There there's two way. There's a right. and wrong way, you know, some would. argue to elect the fifth amendment right. to not incriminate, right? The right way. is like, look, I appreciate what you're. trying to do here, but I do have this. pesky old bill of rights, you know, that's going to protect me, right? Then. there's the wrong way, which is to lie, to to be deceptive, to deflect, because. that becomes evidence in and of itself. It's one thing to put in a report, be. asked, she elected her constitutional. right. It's another she appeared. evasive. Again, where I started, there's.

just something missing here. And is it a. history of abuse? Is it mental health? Is it alcohol? Why was there, you know, an apparent crime and inconsistent. behavior all around the same time? And. that raises that raises, you know, suspicion. >> And wanting her phone. Wanting her. phone? Insisting she wants her phone. What do you think that's about? >> I don't know. Uh. >> yeah, I don't know either. I uh that one. struck me as strange. Unless she was. trying to call somebody, which by the. way, >> yeah, that Well, if she wanted to.

request a lawyer, it's different than. just saying, you know, she she wanted. her phone. I I guess this is a part that. we haven't even talked about. Who is. she, right? What's her relation to this. child? Let's talk about it. Well, why. was arrested and booked into the Knox. County Jail. This seven-year-old was. released to his mother. Yes. So, to be. clear, why is not this child's mother. WBIR reports that Whley's relationship. to the boy is not 100% clear. However, Whley's Facebook profile indicates or.

seemingly indicates that she is married. to a Mara Whip. in their care. John, back to you. Does. Whley's relationship to the victim make. a difference here, the apparent victim? If she was the child's birth parent. versus a stepparent or a caretaker, does. it affect the analysis? Does it affect. the charge? Does it affect the. punishment in some way? I. >> I think all of the things are factors. that get added in. And and again, you've. you've got to go to the whole thing that.

we've discussed. Is this a child of abuse or is this a. child of battery? Right? And and I and I. I realize there might be a distinction. without a difference there because it's. it's charged under child abuse, but when. I'm using the word abuse, I mean kind of. a history. And again, you don't start. punching a kid in the face with a closed. fist first time. One would, you know, I. think that's a pretty safe assumption. And and so I if it's a babysitter, then.

you're worried about a bunch of other. kids. If it's a steparent, you might be. worried about a limited set of kids. if. it's a parent, you know, you got a you. got you got a different set of kids. And. and and I think all of that matters. because the relationship. the the relationship of trust, the. relationship to avoid battery and abuse, while under the black letter law doesn't. matter because it's it's abuse, right? You punch a kid in the face with a. closed fist, it's abuse. But on the. other side of it, it does matter because.

how systemic has it been? how many how. many incidents, you know, is this does. this child need to be with this person. anymore? And it's easy to remove a. custodian or babysitter. It's a little. more difficult under the law to remove a. stepparent or a parent um from from. abuse and then, you know, does the other. spouse know? And so there there's just. so much here. >> That's the point. Assuming these. allegations are true, could the child's.

birth mother have any legal culpability? >> Uh, yes. I mean, it it depends on it. depends on what's going on broader than. what happened in that in that Kroger. parking lot, >> right? Does a does a felony charge like. this automatically trigger child. protective services to get involved? So that the crazy thing about that. question is there's there's state in. comp implications and then there's. there's municipal implications.

um and then there's policy implications. and so each municipality, county, state, you know, is different. Typically, you would hope that when you. have the abuse of a child that somebody. with a state agency, particularly a a. child welfare DCF kind of place, is. alerted. You know, we've seen it though. over and over where, you know, even. parents are arrested, Baker acted, you. know, under a host of investigations and.

the co-parent never finds out um until. down the road. And it it's there's so. many flaws in that system. Now, why was. charged with felony child abuse, and. it's unclear if she's been released from. jail or when she's going to be next in. court, but let's talk about the law. because under Tennessee law, a person. can be charged with child abuse if they. knowingly treat a child under 18 years. of age in such a manner as to inflict. injury or if they knowingly abuse or. neglect a child under 18 so as to.

adversely affect the child's health and. welfare. Now, in the first instance, which involves knowingly inflicting. injury, it is a class D felony, which. it's our understanding carries a. punishment of between 2 and 12 years. behind bars and a fine of no more than. $5,000. The second, abusing or. neglecting a child in a way that affects. their welfare. That's a class E felony, which under Tennessee's criminal code. carries a sentence of between one and. six years plus a $3,000 fine. John, both. of these feel very broad, feel very. broad in a way that helps prosecutors.

It can encompass a lot of conduct here, right? >> One person's broad is another person's. child protection, right? The law was. written to ultimately protect minors who. otherwise may not be able to protect. themselves. And then it's up to really. juries and judges to figure out which. one's more appropriate. And and I'd. rather see that than have, you know, abusers get by on a on a participle or a.

phrase, right? and so or word even and. and you know there's there's a little. bit of of feature there but on the same. token it's it's you know whether it's 1. to 10 or 2 to 12 we're in a pretty. similar ballpark. um you know between. D and and E or E and F whichever it was. >> right it it is interesting to note that. Tennessee law has recently updated it so. that injury to Any child under the age.

of 18 is charged as a felony. That's a. big deal because previously in the. state, a felony designation was given to. all cases involving a child age 8 or. younger. So while abuse against the. child nine or older could be designated. as a misdemeanor depending on the. allegations. Now there's a change. The. change went into effect July 1st of this. year. That's significant. John, are you. are you seeing that more? Um does it. make sense to you to do that? >> Yes. Yes, the former criminal defense.

more active criminal defense lawyer in. me, you know, does does worry about the. exceptions to the rule, right? Again, as. a parent to three rambunctious boys, I. was raised being spanked and belted. And. my first born, I spanked some. Then I. kind of realized spanking doesn't work. And I'll threaten the spanking every now. and again, but I just don't hit my kids. anymore. I I I they're old enough that. we can kind of reason and do push-ups, right? There's things they can do that. alternatives. But if there's a parent. that still chooses to spank, where's the.

line between spank and like belt? Right? I I do get worried about the possibility. of kind of overprotecting children when. it's discipline related. But the core. issue is is that that line between. misdemeanor and felony, the the less. than one year or over one year. And you. know, while I I like that there's there. used to be a difference when it comes to. abuse of children, you know, we really.

do need to take it seriously and so. felony, you know, felonies should. probably be the general rule. >> And let me give you a little bit more. context of that. So, one of the state. representatives who supported. legislation to update the criminal code. was Jake McCelman told the Tennessee. conservative in February, "Crimes. against kids have become something I've. become passionate about up here. I. learned last year in looking up. different pieces of code that without. this law in place, if you go and you. steal a Louis Vuitton bag, that's a. class E felony. You could do up to five. years in prison. If you put a 9-year-old. in the hospital and you're convicted,

the most time you'll spend is 11 months. and 29 days. So essentially a year in. jail. Now, John, going back to this. case, what do you expect here? Is it too. early to know? Is it too early to have. conversations about a plea deal? Um, talk to me about this. the the question. that I would have as far as going. forward is does this does the person. charged have a criminal history, right? Because that'll kind of determine the. process through through the criminal the. criminal justice system. If if there's.

no history and DCF pokes around and. says, "All right, this seems to have. been an isolated incident." That's one. path. It could be plea bargained, probation, you know, just keep an eye out on this. situation. If this person has a history. or there's broader concerns at home, if. they have a day-to-day relationship with. his child, I think the criminal justice. system needs to be a little bit more. aggressive and and see what's going on. There's an obligation to protect those.

that can't protect themselves. >> No, John, that's a really good point and. um again, it's an unfortunate another. case of alleged child abuse that we're. covering here. Um but let's see which. way this progresses. John Phillips, thank you so much for taking the time. Appreciate it. Reggie. >> And that is all we have for you right. now here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank. you so much for joining us and as. always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you. should get your podcasts. You can follow. me on X or Instagram. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next time.

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