Elizabeth Holmes’ Secret Life Behind Bars Exposed

I've already had a lot of questions. about what convicted fraudster Elizabeth. Holmes life is like behind bars after. watching [music] You Can See Everything. But now, a new report from the Daily. Mail featuring an account of a woman who. claims she befriended Holmes while. inside, spent a [music] lot of time with. her while she was incarcerated. It is. raising even more questions. [music]. Good news is we have a prison consultant. coming on to make sense of it all. Welcome to Sidebar, [music] presented by. Law and Crime. I'm Jesse Weber.

So, with everyone talking about You. [music] Can See Everything, the. Elizabeth Holmes documentary by Nathan. Fielder and Lance Oppenheim, there is a. new issue that has just come up that we. need to talk about because the Daily. Mail is exposing Hol's apparent life. behind bars in a unique way through a. reported friend of Holmes who spent time. with her in prison. Now, we know that. Elizabeth Holmes is currently. incarcerated at the federal prison camp. in Brian, Texas. This is after the. founder and former CEO and chairman of.

the blood testing company Theronos was. convicted of conspiracy and fraud. She. was sentenced to 11 years in prison. Although that sentence has been reduced, she's now going to get out in 2030. I'll. explain a little bit more about that. But prosecutors argue that she knowingly. defrauded investors as to Therronos's. blood testing products and technology. that apparently didn't work and also the. viability of her company. And it wasn't. just defrauding people out of millions. and millions of dollars. Prosecutors. also argued that she placed people at. serious risk because they were relying.

on these products to work. So, the woman. who lived in a $15 million mansion and. appeared on the covers of major. publications like Fortune and Forbes, she's now in prison uniform. And this is. a spoiler alert for the film. You can. see everything. Her time locked away in. prison. That was part of the film. In. fact, the first part of the film is. Fielder and his crew filming her living. in California 34 days before she had to. report to FPC Bryant. The second half of. the documentary features parts about her.

life inside. And I'm actually going to. reference some of those parts from the. film and how they relate to what we're. about to discuss. I think it's. important. And by the way, we did a full. breakdown of that entire film on a. previous episode of Sidebar. So, I. encourage everybody to go check it out. on Long Crimes YouTube page if you've. seen the movie. If you don't care about. spoilers, you can see my analysis of it. and what I took away from it. But. according to the Daily Mail, this is. what we're going to talk about today. There is a woman named Cararissa Pard. who claims that after being convicted of.

fraud and tax related offenses, she. found herself locked up at FPC Brian. alongside Elizabeth Holmes. She says. Holmes actually had already been there. for two months when she got there. And. remember, Holmes turned herself in in. May of 2023. So, what does she claim she. learned about Elizabeth Holmes? Well, she says Holmes helped her, that they. discussed related issues of diet and. fitness. And by the way, that's an. interesting side note because there are. photos that have circulated of Holmes. appearing to jog in the outside section,

the courtyard section of this facility. Pard says that fitness with Holmes. consisted of jogging, yoga, generally. working out, which is interesting. because you go back to the film and at. one point in the film, Holmes's fiance, Billy Evans, remarks to Nathan Fielder. how much more physically fit Holmes is. now that she's in prison, that she has. abs. I don't know about you, but if you. saw it, my theater kind of like seemed. ticked off about that comment. considering, you know, she had just had. a baby before she went in, so making a.

comment about her appearance, people. weren't happy about it. But anyway, according to the Daily Mail, life in FBC. Brian consists of women sharing a room, how they're woken up at 5:00 a.m. They're assigned jobs where they only. receive a few cents per hour. The lights. go out at 8:30 p.m. The meals consist of. standard cuisine like burgers and. chicken. Actually, you go back to the. film, there's a part where Elizabeth. Holmes is on the phone, I think. seemingly with her attorney, and you see. her crying as it seems she's being told.

what her everyday life will be like. inside. It's a really to me it seemed. like a really vulnerable moment. But. Pard said, and I thought this was. important. Quote, "Elizabeth helped. everybody." Daily Mail cited how Holmes. is popular in a way. People like her, they trust her, that she's polite, that. she wanted to help. Pard says how Holmes. doesn't use her fame, keeps kind of a. low profile while in FPC. Brian and how. Holmes even prepares prisoners for life. on the outside once they're released,

asking prison staff to help with the. food, too. Now, again, this is her. account. We don't know for sure what's. going on. But Pard even recounts talking. with Holmes about nutrition and food. options. Pard said the women also bonded. over being away from their families as. they would spend time together, work out. together. Holmes has two young children. who apparently visit on weekends. Pard. told the Daily Mail, "We had similar. interests, similar likes, and we just. kind of bonded. It was an incredibly. vulnerable time for both of us, and we. just developed a friendship from those.

traumas. Elizabeth is one of the. kindest, most respectful, compassionate. individuals that I think I've ever met.". And when you couple that with how. Elizabeth Holmes is portrayed or what. she says in the documentary, it's. raising questions of do people look at. Elizabeth Holmes differently now? Should. they? She was convicted of harming many. people. There are those who worked with. her who after the film's release are. saying this is not someone to trust.

Okay, this is not someone to feel bad. for. But people are free to judge. Elizabeth Holmes and view Elizabeth. Holmes however they want. And now we. also know, and I mentioned this before, that Holmes is set to be transferred to. a halfway house out in Austin, Texas in. August of 2027. And this is where she's. going to spend the remainder of her. term. It's set to finish up in 2030. I. want to explore that a little bit, but I. got a lot of questions. I got a lot of. questions about this. I got a lot of. questions about what we saw in the film,

about Holmes, her time in prison. So, let's get to that. So, let me bring on. prison consultant Justin Pernie to talk. more about this. Justin, always good to. see you. And I understand you saw the. movie, too, like I did. And again, as I. said, some of those aspects, some of the. things we see in that film kind of. relate uh to her, you know, her life and. behind bars and what we're hearing uh in. this this interview. But first, let's. just set it up. What is life like behind. bars in FPC Brian from what you. understand? >> I think it depends on the day and it.

depends on the prisoner. Her friend said. it's like Groundhog Day. It can be for. some you wake up at the same time. You. go to the chow hall. You exercise. You. do your job. You visit. It could be so. monotonous. The highest value can be the. boredom. Very little violence. For some, it can be a real opportunity uh to. challenge yourself and to prepare for. the hard part, hardest part, coming. home. And when I read this letter or. this news outlet, there's an. opportunity. she still has 10 months. left to turn it from something that's.

boring and monotonous to a real. opportunity to use her platform to build. to create perhaps to talk about ethics. what advice she would give to a 19 or. 20-year-old founder. So some people find. it incredibly boring and monotonous. where they are literally watching paint. dry waiting minute to minute to mail. call. Others use it as a benefit to. improve and enrich their life to prepare. for the hardest part coming. I thought I. thought that um Miss Pard you know. saying that you could read all day, you. could crochet all day, you could sleep.

all day. Is that really the flexibility. that you have? I know that you're also. assigned jobs and but do people just. they can choose how they want to spend. their time. I mean some people just. sleep all day. >> essentially other than programming and. working and things you have to do. You. have a lot you have a lot of time to. decide what you'd like to do. And there. are incentives now in the federal prison. system to educate yourself, to document. it, to build a record because that could. compel a case manager to send you home.

more quickly. When I was in prison, it. didn't matter if you watched the. Kardashians or Sons of Anarchy all day. or wrote a book and b wrote a blog or. book all day. You weren't going to be. treated differently. So, yes, some. people are incredibly productive. building, creating, sharing. Uh others. will sleep um complain and kind of. lament about the life they once had. And. the problem with that approach is they. reach the end of the journey with a lot. of regret because they're not prepared. for the hardest part coming home with a. felony conviction. >> All right, real quick. So, look, I love. online shopping as much as the next.

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$500 in whatnot credit that could get. you some really cool collectibles or. whatever you want. A winner is going to. be picked a month from today. Hope you. can enjoy. One of the other aspects, and. I mentioned this too because you see it. in the film, is exercise, right? I said. this before, Billy Evans even comments. to Nathan Fielder, well, she's got abs. now. She's in great shape. A big part of. this account from the Daily Mail is how. much exercise Elizabeth Holmes engages. in. Photos of Elizabeth Holmes uh. jogging. What is the exercise routine.

like as far as you know in FPC Brian? Because Pard Basic says there was an. outdoor recreation center. There was an. indoor recreation center. Um and talk to. me about what that's like. It. >> It's true. It's kind of like a fat farm. It's like a junior college or corporate. office park. you just can't leave. So, you leave your dorm, you see a track, you see weights, you see elliptical. It's part of the reason some people call. it a cushy country club. It's part of. the reason victims of crime call me and.

say, "I don't want this person in a camp. walking the track, playing pickle ball. or botchi ball, exercising for eight. hours a day. I want them working. I want. my money back." When they talk about the. abs, or they talk about, "I couldn't. bring in New Balance shoes." it misses. an opportunity with her global platform. to say I'm not worried about shoes and I. don't think it's real value. unfortunately as I read in the article. to tell someone who clearly cares for. her and sort of lionizes her. I don't. think there's value in saying let's look. at the commissary the Snickers bar isn't. good for you. No kidding. The real value.

could have been I have a platform in. prison. I have an opportunity to teach. rather than exercise for six or seven. hours a day if she isn't focused on abs. How can I help people develop skills? How can I help them prepare for the. hardest part coming home? If I'm. documenting my journey, other women. inside of this prison can do it. The. problem is when you focus on abs, you. rely on cliches or platitudes. She's. helping people. She's very kind. She's. compliant. There's very little evidence. of it. And even when this interview,

this woman was released in January 24, if she's indeed helped people, hundreds. of women have cycled in and out of that. prison since then. And I'd like to see. more evidence of the transformation of. what she's done to help people. But to. your point, you could walk that track. for 10 hours a day if you'd like to. >> It's interesting you say that. So in. other words, you're a bit skeptical. about this account that Elizabeth Holmes. kept her head down, low profile, didn't. use her fame, but that she wanted to. help people, that she was preparing them. for a life outside, that she befriended. this woman. I mean, we don't really know.

if it's true or not, but there's a part. of you that suggests maybe even after. seeing the film that what she's doing. behind bars and how she's being. described behind bars may not be the. whole story. >> Well, I think there's a lot of things. that are good. If she's laying low, if. she's not complaining, if she's doing. her job, if she's not speaking with. staff more than is necessary, if she. doesn't act as if she's better than. anybody else, there are things to her. routine from what I read that are very.

that are very good. Some people go to. prison, they don't do their job, they. speak to staff, they complain, they. exercise all day. So, there is no doubt. she is doing some things well. But. there's a difference between being. compliant, Jesse, and being truly. exceptional and extraordinary with her. platform. and her opportunity. She could be so. exceptional. She could be helping so. many women develop skills, values, create something, share that record with. their sentencing judge, with their.

probation officer, with their case. manager. Every minute is productive. There are some issues with timing, right? you have this movie that comes. out and it wasn't all, you know, favorable. It essentially is a character. reference letter that she wrote. I think. it's great that she did it. I'd like to. see more specifics. It's not really. independent, even arguing she can't see. the film until Billy or Elizabeth. approve. It's sort of like she comes off. as a bit of a a sickopant. I hate to say. it. Go see the film. Give us your. opinion. It's just not truly.

independent. I just too many too many. people in prison presume being compliant. and doing their job and going to. programming is exceptional. She has an. opportunity to help people and I still. believe she can do it. >> Look, if you watch the film, there's a. part of it where, you know, I'm sure. maybe if she really does think people. should see the film and is proud of it, you know, she's still working on a new. therap 2.0. This idea of why would you. engage in trying to continue an endeavor. that got you in trouble? um well, you.

know, if she really believes this is her. mission to help people, it's interesting. to think about it. I also have to say. one of the things about the film um and. look, there's a ton of questions about. is she being genuine? Is she being. deceitful? Is she being real? Who's the. real Elizabeth Holmes? There's a part of. the film that to me showed a sense of. vulnerability when she's on the phone. and the person that she's speaking to is. preparing her for what her life is going. to be like and she breaks down. She. breaks down crying. Whether it's the. idea of waking up at 5:00 a.m. and what.

she's going to have. That idea of. preparing someone, someone who had all. this money, this wealth, this fame, resources. Even in the article, they. talk about once you get in there, it's. the great equalizer. What is that. conversation like to prepare for someone. for what their new reality is going to. be like? Because again, in the film, you. kind of see that in uh how she's. accepting it and she's breaking down. I think it depends on the prisoner and. any adversity they've had throughout.

their life, how resilient they are. Some. people use this as an opportunity to to. grow and become better. Look at the. prison sentence, like in the totality of. my life, it's a little blip. Some people. perhaps like Elizabeth Holmes or me who. have come from from privilege and. opportunity who have never had setback, surrendering to prison, going through it. can be very devastating. It's part of. the reason so many people avoid. preparing properly. So there's no way to. spin that surrendering to prison is. difficult, especially with with with. young children. But you'll learn the.

first day goes pretty quickly. And you. can find perspective inside of that. prison. People who have been there. weeks, months, decades, and in years who. have had unfathomable pain and heartache. with trauma, parents in prison who. aren't releasing to media attention, and. a spouse that can visit them every week. with children who can afford to move. there to visits. Many of those women. will go weeks and months and years. without a visit. They made you four or. five jobs inside of that prison to have. $100 a month to shop in the commissary. So, there ain't no way to spin that. It's hard. But if you're open to it and.

if you're resilient and you're willing. to learn from the experience, you'll get. there and say, "I have it better than. most. I'm grateful. I have found. perspective. And now I want to use my. platform. to educate, to help, to teach." And when. she does that, I think she can get back. on the right track. when she begins to. acknowledge, you know what, I'm still I believe I'm. innocent and I don't believe I created. victims, but in retrospect, I could have. done some things differently. Here is my. plan through Theonos 2 or elsewhere to.

repay this $452 million that I don't. agree with, but I'm an American citizen. I have an obligation. I'm going to do. it. That is an opportunity um she has. But I pray she has found that. perspective. >> Yeah. Then you're talking about the. restitution that that idea of being able. to see your family, your children every. weekend. That's a privilege as part of. FPC, Brian. I mean, assuming that you. know your family could be there like. you're talking about or relocate, but is. that that's different than other kinds. of institutions, other kinds of. facilities.

>> Federal prisons from the penitentiary. down to the camp are going to allow you. to to visit. They have schedules. Saturday, Sunday, 8:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m. In about an hour, I'm going to speak. with someone who called to say, "The. visit with my husband was awful. It was. terrible. It wasn't what I expected.". Because when people visit in prison, they get bad news from home, right? We're not making money. That the. children are struggling. We need you. here. And if a prisoner hasn't responded. properly, an 8 hour visitation can feel.

like forever. Like some people are like. after an hour like I'm I'm ready to go. home. So yes, you can visit most. Saturdays and Sundays. You check in, you. go through a metal detector, you'll the. prisoner's family will sit down, they. will take a debit or credit card, go to. the vending machine and get some. excellent vending food and machine, bean. burritos, chicken, tacos, >> which by the way is kind of reenacted in. the film in a certain way, too. But. yeah, >> it's true actually. One time a cool. guard threatened to send me to the hole. because when my mom visited with me, I. took cash and I went to buy her a.

Coca-Cola and he said, "Inmates don't. use cash." I had just gotten there. I I. didn't know. So there are rules in. visitation you can embrace at the. beginning and end of a visit, but it is. heartbreaking. I saw young children. hanging on the legs and ankles of their. father not wanting uh the the visit to. end. So um visit visitation isn't always. cracked up to be uh and I say you can. fake it on the phone, you can fake it. through email when you reach out from. the prison email. very difficult to fake. it in prison, which is why the prisoner. really needs to respond well and set the.

tone for his family because it tends to. be hardest on those that love and. support you. Ju. >> just to jump on something that you said. and we see this in the film too. How. long does she have with her family? You. said she could have hours, several hours. like in the courtyard and things like. that. >> pretty much. Yeah. You like could be. from 8:45 to 3 p.m. at bop.gov. If you. go to Brian Federal Prison Camp and they. give you the hours and you can be. together all all day on a Saturday or. Sunday. Now, you can't probably go every. weekend. Prisons have uh schedules and.

you it's probably every other week that. you can go. Uh and it can be a. wonderful, you know, experience. Sometimes it tends to get very very. full, especially on holidays and it. could be first in, first out. They can. ask you to leave. So, it's not a good. idea to intro introduce your family or. friends to other people in visitation. because you be could be getting bad. news. I made that mistake as well. But. to answer your question, they could be. together all day. There was an uh part. of the film where Billy Evans says, and. again, this is Elizabeth Holm's fiance,

basically said to Nathan Fielder, "You. can't record a phone call that you have. with her while she's in prison. If it. comes out that it's recorded, you're. recording your conversation with her on. the phone. Um, she can get in a lot of. trouble." And it's actually comes to an. interesting point where Nathan Fielder. doesn't record the conversation, but he. kind of reenacts what that conversation. was like on the phone. Um, is that true? Could she have gotten in a lot of. trouble for that? >> If she didn't know that she was call, he. didn't fully understand some of the the. prison rules. And I don't blame him. How.

how would he know? If I someone calls me. from prison and I record that phone call. and that prisoner doesn't know, how are. they going to get in trouble? They had. no idea. Where some people get into. trouble is, and I've seen people go to. the hole or segregated housing. They. make a three-way phone call. You call. home. It's like, "Hey, let me conference. in Joe or my lawyer or mom." and now. you're calling someone that isn't. approved. Even putting it on speaker. phone is fine. So, I don't believe if. the call was recorded, she would be held. accountable because how how would she.

know? She's calling from a prison phone. >> That's fair. The part where the part. where spoiler spoiler the part where. Nathan Fielder goes to actually visit. her at FPC Brian and he kind of recounts. what it was like and it's recreated. Was. that accurate in your mind the way he. described it? Yeah, it's pretty accurate. You go to. prison, you you wait a little while, and. then you get settled in, you go to the. vending machine and buy some food, you. wait for your prisoner or your loved one. to come in. Um, you embrace. They're.

lucky at Brian to have an outdoor. facility. Not every prison does, or. sometimes it's closed down. Not all. prisons have toys for children, but it. appears from what I've heard, people in. our community who have gone to Bryant. and served time there have said that. staff was very uh cordial, the. visitation was accessible for family. Jobs were plenty. You could have a job. working eight or nine days, eight or. nine hours a day if you want to or a job. that allows you to work an hour a day to. prepare, you know, for the hardest part.

Coming home, my partner Michael Santos. actually spoke at Brian last fall. through prisonprofessors.org. or. Elizabeth Holmes was in the audience. She came up to him and shook his hand. and thanked him for presenting and uh. leading this nonprofit that influences. so many millions of people. And I. thought to myself, that would be a great. opportunity for her to create a profile. at prisonprofessors.org to write. biographies and book reports and journal. entries lead for other women because if. she created and did it then women. beneath her could do it as well, right? She can't others to ask others to.

prepare and document it if she herself. isn't doing it. So there's still some. opportunity she's missing. >> Yeah. The the only thing a. counterargument to that would be she. could say, you know, how are people. going to respond to this if I start. creating this profile to help people? People are going to be skeptical. They're not why would they want to. listen to me, you know, to make it look. like it's all about me. I mean, I guess. that's a counterargument to that, too, right? She that's maybe why she's. creating a low profile because if it. comes out, you know, oh, I'm I'm. creating this venture to help women and. do that. It could be like really, you.

know, she might know that could be bad. press. I would approach it I would. approach it differently. She's not going. to write about the case or the appeal. and all of that stuff. She could simply. say, "Here's what I did today in prison. I got up. >> I read a book. Here's why I read the. book. Here's what I learned from the. book. And here's here's how the book is. going to help me moving forward." I. encourage women in prison to read. deliberately. Just don't read passively. It's like watching a film. Don't read. 500 books. Perhaps you read 25. Share. those book reports with your judge, with. your case manager, with your probation.

officer. develop skills so she could be. more authentic if she were doing that. work. And maybe she's doing it and we. just haven't seen it. And I hope to God. I hope to God that I'm wrong that she. comes home with books and such a a. library of content that people like me. who question her adjustment say we were. wrong. She has helped. Here's the. evidence. I just don't like this person. was released in January of 24. In the. article she said she helped people. She. goes above and beyond. She answers.

prisoners questions. She's changing. lives. I want to see it. I'd like to see. the result of that work. Until then, it's just sort of like a character. reference letter with very vague cliched. statements. >> Hey, so I got to say this. Look, for. anybody who has supported me over the. years, supported the projects I've been. a part of for the years. I really, really appreciate it. Best fan base. Best. You guys are awesome. So, I. thought, why don't we do something. different? Why don't we switch things. up? Why don't you ask me questions for a. change? Right. So, what we're doing is. we're giving a few fans a chance to meet.

with me virtually, one-on-one to ask. about anything. Ask about the cases I've. covered behind the scenes at Sidebar, prime crime, really anything you've. always wanted to know. So, to enter, you. sign up for Long Crime Plus. You click. the link below. You submit your question. for a chance to be featured in an. exclusive Just [snorts]. Ask Jesse special. It's the week of. Thanksgiving. And by the way, right now, you can get 25% off an annual Long Crime. Plus subscription with promo code Just. Ask Jesse. It's just $44.99 for the. entire year. It's a pretty good deal. So, I hope you can join me. I'm really.

looking forward to it and I'll see you. then. The fact that the movie um films. the 34 days before she goes to report to. prison. It's a very very emotional, vulnerable time I imagine for anybody. The fact that she filmed that and. there's a big question about why she. agreed to this. It's a big theme in the. movie. People have to make a. determination for themselves. What did. you make of the fact that she exposed. herself and her family for that period. of time?

>> I liked it. I I like I think she's. vulnerable. I think she's honest and. telling her story as she sees it. She. recognizes she's a celebrity and a and a. brand. I don't believe there'll be. Theronos 2.0. I think she's going to be. a media celebrity on panel CNBC talking. about her experience, lay out a vision. of what she intends to do. So, I liked. it very much. I had no problem with. Billy Evans wanting to get paid. He's a. law-abiding citizen. It's his time. I. think she should have been paid for her.

time. I wish anything any money that. would have come in, she should have. said, "I don't agree with the conviction. of the 452 million restitution." And. even though my victims are allegedly. rich, I'm going to do what Justice. Matthew Pernney did. I'm going to take. the lion share of what I earn and I'm. going to turn it over to victims. That. was a missed opportunity. But to your. question, I was enamored by the film. I. like the film. It left me confused. I. still think there's some calculating. there. As close as they are, whether. they're married or not, to think that. she wouldn't know that he was trying to.

get a percentage of the deal, as I've. said, is like believing McDonald's. doesn't want you to buy the Big Mac this. morning. It's in it's insane. So, I. believe that she knew. And it's easier. for her to remove herself from any. financial conversation. because she owes $452 million. So, it's. best that she don't know nothing and. everything is going to go to Billy and. what he does with it is his business. Those are things that were very. calculating and I think it would have. been easier to say, "We're both getting. paid." What's her life going to be like. at this halfway house?

>> Well, a lot of people get to the halfway. house. Do you know the first thing they. say, "Jesse, >> I'd like to be back in prison." So, a. lot of these halfway. >> really. >> Yeah. That I went to the halfway house. in Hollywood for three months and wow. uh if they don't approve your job, you're scrubbing toilets and showers in. the halfway house. You're going to work. for the colonel at KFC because your job. isn't approved and you have an. obligation to work. So, I was fortunate. that I had a plan built where my very. cool probation officer Isaiah Muro. approved my work. So, if she doesn't.

have a plan and if it's not documented. what she intends to do, the halfway. house can be very difficult. It can be. filthy, small, like a rundown moach. roachinfested motel. you are. You could. be in a room with 10, 12 people. Right. now, she may be in a pod with four. women. Could have 12, 15 people in this. room sharing one uh restroom, one. toilet. You're also in with all sorts of. prisoners from the penitentiary all the. way down to the camp. Sex offenders, male and female. My bunky, for example, served 40 years in the penitentiary for.

robbing banks in the halfway house. So, it is certainly a quasi freedom. You. will begin to get some passes. two hours. to go to the DMV, four hours to visit. with with uh your family, a 12 and then. 24-hour pass, probably on lockdown for a. week. People frequently get into. trouble. The marshals will come, they'll. arrest you, and they won't take you back. to the camp. They're going to take you. to the detention center because you have. so little time left on your sentence. So, the halfway house for most people. isn't what they expected, especially if. they didn't plan. And many of them have.

this regret. I wasted my prison term. I. don't want to work for the colonel. She. has an interest in getting her job. approved and then eventually that will. help her get to home confinement which. where you will certainly feel free maybe. the last 10% or so of her sentence. she'll serve on home confinement. >> Oh so but so before 2030 there's a. possibility she could be on home. confinement. >> presuming she has her release plan. built. She lays out a vision of what she. intends to do. She's doing it. She's. compliant. She's working. At some point. the Bureau of Prisons, the case managers.

are going to deduce she is eligible to. go to home confinement. You aren't. really free. Um, this is upsetting to. some people. I know because I have so. many people reach out through the videos. I film on her. Some people, I can't. believe she's leaving prison early. Look, how long do we need to warehouse. someone? It's very expensive. The. collateral consequences of a conviction, Jesse, are lifelong. At some point, enough is enough. But you're not free. till you're done. There are. inconveniences in in the halfway house. They're calling you back. There are drug. tests. If you work for someone, they're.

going to call that employer four or five. times a day. Is Elizabeth here? You. didn't call me back in 15 minutes to. confirm her work. We're going to revoke. the job. She's scrubbing toilets. So, at. some point, we need to get her out. She. needs to be productive and she will move. to home confinement. But even then, you. can get a call at they'll call you at 2. 2 a.m. every night or 12:00 p.m. just. calling. You have to have a separate. landline. You are not free until you. start probation. And even then, probation is a is a whole different, you. know, avenue for for three years. She's.

going to want to travel and build her. business. And you're going to have a. probation officer that's going to say, "What is your plan to pay back $452. million?" So, she has years ahead of. government in, you know, supervision. And it would be in her interest to lay. out a plan that shows how she's going to. overcome it. >> Justin Pernie, thank you so much for. taking the time. Appreciate it. >> It's good to see you. >> And that's all we have for you right now. here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so. much for joining us. I'm Jesse [music]. Weber. I'll speak to you next time.