Did Epstein Destroy Evidence at His New Mexico Ranch?

With the allegations of sexual assault. and now possible dead bodies buried in. the area of Jeffrey Epstein's former New. Mexico ranch, [music] we have stumbled. upon a report to the FBI that Epstein. may have had very strange equipment on. the property. Equipment one could. potentially use to destroy evidence. [music] Now, with the launch of two. brand new investigations into the Zorro. ranch, are investigators going to. actually find anything if evidence was. possibly destroyed? [music]. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and.

Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. As you know, we have been focusing a lot. recently on Jeffrey Epstein's former. property, the Zorro ranch out in New. Mexico. Why? Because on top of the prior. accusations of sexual assault occurring. on that property, which we're going to. talk about, now, in the newly released. Epstein files, there are accusations of. dead bodies buried in that area. And you. have two investigations that have been. launched in New Mexico. So, first, you.

have New Mexico lawmakers who officially. launched a truth commission. In fact, to. give you an idea about this, we had. representative Andrea Romero who said. that this subcommittee will use subpoena. powers and public records and testimony. to, quote, put the whole story together. At the same time, the New Mexico. Department of Justice announced that. they would open a criminal. investigation. They released a statement. saying the following, "Upon reviewing. information recently released by the US. Department of Justice, Attorney General. Raul Torrez has ordered that the.

criminal investigation into allegations. of illegal activity at Jeffrey Epstein's. Zorro ranch be reopened. Although the. state of New Mexico's prior. investigation was closed in 2019 at the. request of the US Attorney's Office for. the Southern District of New York, which. we'll talk about, revelations outlined. in the previously sealed FBI files. warrant further examination. Special. agents and prosecutors at the New Mexico. Department of Justice will be seeking. immediate access to the complete. unredacted federal case file and intend.

to work collaboratively with our law. enforcement partners as well as the. Epstein Truth Commission recently. established by the New Mexico. legislature. As with any potential. criminal matter, we will follow the. facts wherever they lead, carefully. evaluate jurisdictional considerations, and take appropriate investigative. action including the collection and. preservation of any relevant evidence. that remains available. That's exactly. what we're talking about now. We are. moving quickly and deliberatively on. this issue and will provide updates as.

appropriate. So, with that in mind, as. we think about these investigations, we. found a very disturbing document in the. Epstein files that we need to talk. about. And this raises an allegation now. of whether Jeffrey Epstein or possibly. somebody in his employ could have. possibly destroyed evidence. What am I. talking about? We go to this FBI crisis. intake memo. Where it says that a. retired New Mexico State Police officer, so first of all, if that's true, this is.

a very different line of credibility. than if you have somebody, you know, John Smith or an unidentified person or. someone off the street, right? This is. apparently a former member of law. enforcement. Now, this person, we don't. really know the name, but this person. apparently contacted the FBI National. Threat Operations Center on July 19th, 2019. Time frame's important here. So, this is after Epstein was arrested on. federal sex trafficking of minors. charges and before he was found dead in. his jail cell, okay? Now, this is what.

the FBI crisis intake memo says, this. document, quote, "Redacted provided the. following information. Redacted lives in. the neighborhood of a property owned by. Jeffrey Epstein. The property, which is. on Zoro Ranch Road, Stanley, New Mexico, has recently had a large barn. constructed. The barn is suspicious as. there is a garage door that appears to. be a sally port and there is a chimney. Now a sally port by the way is a secured. controlled entryway. Usually you see.

these in fortifications or prisons. So. kind of odd to have it a property like. this. By the way as we're going through. this, you have to wonder with this truth. commission being set up and also with. the Department of Justice now launching. a criminal investigation, whoever this. person is, if they're still around, are. they going to come forward now? Something to think about. Quote, "Redacted is concerned the property. could potentially have an incinerator. concealed within the barn. An old 1970s. mobile home was recently put right. behind the barn which redacted believes. does not follow Santa Fe County.

regulations. There have been a lot of. high profile people seen frequenting the. property. Redacted has heard rumors that. the property was used for recruiting. girls to visit with Epstein but he has. no factual evidence to support this. claim. Redacted heard rumors that girls. from Albuquerque and the Moriarty area. were recruited for Epstein. Redacted. controlled this area for 15 years before. he retired. The property was owned. previously by the governor of New Mexico. but the property was sold to Epstein. before the governor's passing. The. property that redacted is reporting is.

about 3 miles away from Epstein's. mansion. Redacted explained that there. was a lot of securities for the. properties including cameras, alley. ports, and other security measures. Redacted explained that redacted, the. barn that was constructed, doesn't look. like a barn you would use for ranching. Redacted wanted to report the. information to the FBI because he is. concerned evidence could be destroyed. here. Again, as I mentioned, this is. allegedly coming from a former member of. law enforcement so you have to look at.

it differently, right? You have to look. at that perspective a little. differently. But to be clear, we do not. know who this person is. We do not know. whether this tip was followed up on. I. will say it is disturbing to say the. least about a reportedly what, 7,600. acre property. And the natural question. is, was Epstein or somebody in his. employ allegedly hiding or destroying. evidence and will there be anything for. investigators to find now? By the way, this is one of the reasons why it's. frustrating to see an investigation into. this property, maybe a more thorough.

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Sun, that reported on this, too, said, quote, "Relations outlined in the. previously sealed FBI files warrant. further examination." I mentioned that, too. And it's our understanding that. investigations into the Zorro Ranch, they were closed in 2019, and it hasn't. been searched by authorities since that. time. And let's not forget, by the way, why this is really coming back in the. news. Okay, why are we talking about. this? Because in the millions and. millions of pages released as part of. the Epstein files transparency act, there is an email that is standing out.

for a very, very disturbing dark reason. We did a whole sidebar episode on this, but I'll mention it again. You have an. email from 2019, okay? And it appears to. be directed to Edward Arrogant, this. local radio host. And the other names on. the email are redacted, but it says. this, "Edward, this is sensitive, so it. will be the first and last email. depending on your discretion. You can. choose to take it or trash it, but this. comes from a person that has been there. and seen it all as a former staff at the. Zorro." Again, something to think about,

as I mentioned, the launch of these new. investigations, is this person going to. come forward? Okay. "The material below. was taken from Jeffrey Epstein's home as. my insurance in case of future. litigation against Epstein. Sorry, no. questions. What is damning about Jeffrey. Epstein is yet to be written. Did you. know somewhere in the hills outside the. Zorro two foreign girls were buried on. orders of Jeffrey and Madam G, presumably Ghislaine Maxwell. Both died. by strangulation during rough fetish. sex." And there even appears to be links.

to purported sex videos, including one. that says "sex video with a minor.". "Please arrange for one Bitcoin by 6:00. p.m. Eastern Standard Time. Thursday, 11/22/19. to the Bitcoin wallet address redacted. The USB will be sent anonymously to your. attention by overnight courier upon. receipt of the funds. You have my. assurance this is exclusive, never. shared before, no attorneys, no samples, no questions, please confirm ASAP." And. by the way, Arrogant said he got this.

message anonymously. He apparently sent. this email to the FBI, which is why it. was in the Epstein files released from. the DOJ, by the way. And he indicated. that he didn't pay this person, which. when you think of what in Bitcoin, our. understanding is it was about like. $8,000 at this time so many years ago. And he indicated that while he spoke to. an FBI agent about this, he never heard. anything more about it or the status of. the investigation. But let me be clear, we couldn't find more corroborating. evidence to support this, right? I. didn't see anything more in the files to. suggest about dead bodies being buried. on this property. I don't know if these.

allegations are true, or if true, when. this would have happened, right? That's. can that's important, too, cuz I'll play. it in a little bit, but I did an. interview with Nita Rutherford, a. coroner, to talk about the challenges. about even if you find human remains, what is left? I mean, dental records, hair, fibers, what can they tell you. about the story, particularly if you're. dealing with strangulation, there's no. clear markings sometimes that would tell. you what happened for cause or manner of. death. But, if you want to check that. full sidebar out, you can. A little bit. later, I'm going to play you a sample of. what she had to say. But at the very.

least, I can tell you this claim is. being taken seriously, right? And also. be clear, this email has come into focus. for all nefarious reasons, because. Epstein reportedly purchased the. property from former New Mexico Governor. Bruce King in 1993. You have these. separate civil lawsuits that accuse. Epstein of sexually assaulting women and. girls at this property. It was dubbed. the Playboy Ranch, where Epstein is. accused of, by the way, sexually abusing. a 16-year-old girl as early as 1996, for. example, in an unsealed 2016 court. deposition, Epstein accuser, the late. Virginia Giuffre, testified that.

Ghislaine Maxwell told her to give the. late former New Mexico Governor Bill. Richardson a massage at the ranch. Want. to expand on that for a second. So, at. Ghislaine Maxwell's sex trafficking. trial, where we learned a lot more about. these allegations and about the evidence. against her and Epstein, you had a. number of accusers who testified, and. they talked about New Mexico. So, for. example, at her trial, there was one. accuser, Jane, who testified how she. traveled with Epstein and Maxwell to the. ranch in New Mexico. And when asked by a.

prosecutor whether someone came into her. room, this is the back and forth, quote, "I just remember someone at one point. just came into the room and said, 'Jeffrey wants to see you' and then. escorted me to see him." Question, "When. that person came into your room and told. you that he wanted to see you, how did. you feel?" The answer, "I just as usual. felt like my heart sink into my stomach, you know?" Question, "And why was your. heart sinking into your stomach?". Answer, "Because I did not want to go. see him." Question, "What's the next.

thing you remember about that?" "I just. remember being led to his bedroom and. you know, the same thing would happen.". Yet another accuser who testified, quote, "I was very aware at that time. that I was, you know, very isolated, that, you know, I was on this ranch with. these two, meaning Maxwell and Epstein, with these two people and you know, no. one's safe for a great distance. And so. I just had thought like, I just need to. get through this and then it will be. fine. And so I just, you know, I didn't. say anything." The question was asked,

"Did Epstein cuddle you?" Answer, "Yeah.". "Can you explain what happened?" "Yeah, he just, you know, as I said, he's kind. of had his arms around me and I felt. again kind of frozen. And then I thought. I have to have an excuse to get out of. this and so I just said I needed to go. to the bathroom and it was in my bedroom. area and there was a bathroom near. And. so I just made the excuse and got out of. the bed and went into the bathroom and. shut the door." Another accuser, by the. way, once alleged that at this ranch in. New Mexico, the following happened and.

this is laid out pretty detailed in a. filing in a civil lawsuit. It says, quote, "Jane Doe was taken to an. upstairs bedroom. Epstein was lying on. the bed on his back wearing only a. bathrobe. Epstein ordered Jane Doe to. stand next to the bed and give him a. massage. As she started to do so, Epstein opened the bathrobe so that his. was visible. Jane Doe sensed that. Epstein expected her to do something. sexual to him, but she did not know what. it was. Epstein seemed to get frustrated. as a result. Epstein then said in.

substance, "We're going to try something. different." Without warning, he grabbed. Jane Doe by her shoulders and laid her. down on the floor. And I'm not going to. get descriptive, but she claims that he. sexually assaulted her. And as I. mentioned, the late Virginia Giuffre. claimed she was abused at this ranch. And actually, to give you an idea about. this, she said the following in a court. document and even added photos. Quote, "To illustrate my connection to these. places, I include four photographs taken. of me in New Mexico shown below. The. first one is a museum in Santa Fe, New.

Mexico. We had gone sightseeing for the. day. Epstein took this picture of me. I. was approximately 17 at the time judging. from the looks of it. At the end of the. day, we returned to Epstein's Zorro. Ranch. The second picture is me on one. of Epstein's horses on the ranch in New. Mexico. The following two are from. wintertime in New Mexico. And as I. mentioned, Giuffre alleged that Epstein. trafficked her to the late Governor Bill. Richardson, who died in 2023 by the way. And his spokesperson had previously. denied the allegation saying that he. quote had limited interactions with Mr. Epstein, that he never saw him in the.

presence of young or underage girls. I'll also tell you as we talk about the. New Mexico property, there was a. disturbing New York Times article from. back in 2019 called Epstein hoped to. seed human race with his DNA, which. alleged that Epstein told people that he. wanted to impregnate women and have them. give birth to his babies on Zorro Ranch. Actually by the way, this article was. included in the Epstein files release. I. mean, I even found this email that was.

sent to Epstein in 2010 from a redacted, so we don't know who it's from. But I. just want to read it to you. You've been. on my mind a lot today. Just gave a talk. in Philadelphia. Hung out with Barnaby. and we had a mutual admiration moment. about you. We also talked about genius. dot dot dot and eugenics. In one. document about Epstein, it says that it. was reported in August 2019 that Epstein. had planned to quote seed the human race. with his DNA by impregnating up to 20. women at a time using his New Mexico. compound as a baby ranch where mothers.

would give birth to his offspring. He. was an advocate of cryonics and his own. idiosyncratic version of transhumanism. and it's said that he intended to have. his. and head frozen. Now, I got to call this. out, too. Apparently, the FBI at one. point had interviewed the Zorro ranch. manager, the manager of Epstein's Zorro. ranch. And I want you to just listen to. this, quote, "Redacted and his wife. redacted have been managing the Zorro. ranch for Jeffrey Epstein for. approximately 4 years. There are five to.

six full-time staff at the ranch as well. as some seasonal employees. Epstein. spends approximately 50 days a year at. the ranch during his downtime, mostly in. the summer. In the summer, Epstein. generally spends two to three weeks at a. time at the ranch and is shuttled around. by helicopter. The last time Epstein was. at the ranch was Thanksgiving 2006. Epstein normally flies into either. Albuquerque or Santa Fe and is driven to. the ranch. Very little notice is given. before Epstein flies to the ranch, usually 24 to 48 hours. Epstein usually. brings his personal assistant, redacted,

his bodyguard, friends, personal. trainer, and sometimes his masseuses. The masseuses are not normally flown to. the ranch, but are hired by redacted and. redacted. Redacted keeps the financial. records and usually arranges the. massages. The names of the masseuses are. obtained from 10,000 Waves Day Spa or by. referrals. Redacted said that the. masseuses are all checked out and that. they are professionals who are licensed. massage therapists. There have been. approximately five different therapists. used in the past. Redacted said redacted.

could provide the names of the. therapists used and the amounts paid to. them, but that we needed to go to the. office to meet with her. Upon arriving. at the office and greeting redacted, redacted received a phone call from the. quote main office that told him they. were no longer allowed to speak with us. The interview was immediately ended. Talk about suspicious, right? There's. one thing to say, "Look, anytime an. employee, you know, talks to law. enforcement about an investigation of.

some kind, you want them to lawyer up.". But, I got to say, given these. allegations about the New Mexico ranch, isn't that weird? Feels weird, right? Now, here's something interesting if. we're talking about evidence and the. allegations of hiding or destroying. evidence or what new information that. investigators can find. Remember when I. said nothing really came from that 2019. investigation? So, there is this email. from an Assistant United States. Attorney. It appears to be Maureen Comey. in September of 2019. And it says, quote, "As a preview in response to. redacted email, we spoke with the New. Mexico Attorney General's Office back in.

July of 2019. In essence, they agreed to. cease any investigation into sex. trafficking and share whatever they had. gathered to date regarding sex. trafficking activity with our office. We. agreed that they were free to proceed. with whatever other investigations. unrelated to sex trafficking they may. have concerning Epstein and told them. that at the conclusion of our case, we. would pass along any information we may. have gathered about state crimes that. were committed in their jurisdiction. We. have not communicated with anyone from. the New Mexico AG's office since that. conversation in July 2019." You also.

have a December 2019 email where a. prosecutor says they have, quote, "not. searched the New Mexico property." Goes. back to my concerns and reservations I. had before this. So, look, it does. become a question of what investigators, lawmakers could or would find now. And. back in September of 2019, you had. Commissioner Stephanie Garcia Richard. who sent a cancellation letter to. Epstein's company Cypress Inc., which. was listed as the owner of the Zorro. ranch. And I just want to read you a. part of it. It says, quote, "The.

Attorney General has concluded that. Cypress may have obtained the leases. through illegitimate means for purposes. other than ranching or agriculture.". Now, I mentioned State Representative. Andrea Romero before. In a statement, she said also that {quote} New Mexicans. deserve to know the truth about what. went on at the Zora Ranch and who knew. about it. We have heard years of. allegations and rumors about Epstein's. activities in New Mexico, but. unfortunately, federal investigators. have failed to put together an official.

record. With this truth commission, we. can finally fill in the gaps by. investigating the failures that led to. the horrific allegations of abuse and. crime at Zora Ranch. We can learn from. them and prevent such atrocities from. taking place in our state going forward. Now, I mentioned this before. I want to. play you a portion of it. I did a whole. interview with Coroner Anita Rutherford, Dr. Anita Rutherford, on what happens if. they found human remains. Can they. identify the cause and manner of death? It's up on our Law & Crime YouTube page. if you want to check the whole thing. out. But, here's a sample of what she. had to say regarding how they could even. go about searching the property. So,

they would need some sort of ground. penetrating um. devices that could help to to look and. see if there's some sort of grave there, if they put this person in a box, if. they um. if they buried them with something. special that's not supposed to to be in. the ground naturally. So, they're going. to need a lot of technology first before. they just go digging around this. property. And it's a big property. It's. a big property and this allegation is. not even clear about when these, you.

know, these people were allegedly buried. there, which makes me wonder even if you. were digging, what could you potentially. find? What would be left over? You're going to have skeletal remains at. this point. The these allegations. purport that this happened so long ago. And so, not only did they say that these. are possibly minors, so you have smaller. bodies that are potentially buried. You. have scavengers that are in this area. again, animals that are indigenous to. this area. But again, it is very hard to.

dig a grave unless you have special. equipment and especially on that type of. terrain. So, did they have special. equipment? We know that supposedly these. people have a lot of money, they have a. lot of resources, so if they tapped into. those resources, they could have done. this properly. But again, that's why the. technology piece of this is going to be. so important to be able to see where. they could have possibly buried someone. And then the amount of time that has. passed, it's going to be grown over, you're not going to be able to see, you. know, freshly disturbed ground as you. would for someone who has maybe been. recently buried. And so again, this is.

going to take a long time and those. excavation efforts are probably just. going to reveal skeletal remains, which. then you're going to have to extract DNA. from possibly the femur bones. And then. who are these supposed minors that were. there? Do their families know that. they're missing? Where were they. trafficked from? So not only are you. trying to pinpoint country of origin. possibly since they said that these. minors were possibly from foreign. countries, now you're going to have to. try to track down family utilizing DNA. Skeletal remains, again, you look at the.

femur bone, you're trying to gather the. DNA from there, but what else could you. do? Dental records and things, but you. must know the identity of the person in. order to be able to do that. All right, lot to think about. That's all we have. for you right now here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so much for joining. us and as always, please subscribe on. YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you should get your podcast. You can also check us out on NBC's. Peacock. We have our episodes up there. as well. If you want to follow me, >> [music]. >> X, Instagram, my NewsNation show, Jesse. Weber Live, Monday through Friday, 11:00. p.m. Eastern.

>> [music]. >> I'll see you next time, everybody.