Brazilian 'Beauty' Linked to 4 Murders Could be Local Serial Killer: Cops

Law student by day, serial killer by. night? That's the accusation against a. woman in Brazil right now where. investigators in two of the nation's. largest cities are connecting her with. multiple deaths. A stabbing, poisonings, and illicit affair. We are talking with. a homicide investigator about how police. are able to piece together a case like. this and bring an alleged mass killer to. justice. Welcome to Sidebar presented by. Law & Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. [Music].

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financial loss. Well, our legal sponsors. are taking on the online gambling. industry to seek justice and potential. compensation. So, if you or a loved one. has struggled with addiction or. financial hardship or mental health. issues due to sports betting apps, then. visit gamblinglawsuits.com/sidebar. to take a short quiz and check your. eligibility to file a claim. 36-year-old. Ana Paula Velosa Fernandez, a mom, a law. student out in São Paulo, Brazil, she is. behind bars. Why? Because she is accused.

of killing four people in just 5 months. I know, this is shocking to say the. least. And now, new details are coming. out about how she allegedly targeted her. suspected victims as the chief. investigator labels her a quote. psychopath and serial killer. This is. according to multiple Latin American. news outlets. So, to talk about the. bizarre circumstances surrounding the. deaths of these four people and there's. a lot to get into. I want to bring in.

Chris McDonough who's a homicide. investigator, tons of experience in. hunting down alleged killers. Thank you. so much for taking the time. You know, Chris, before we even dive into the. specifics of this case, I have to say. when I first heard about it, when it was. first being reported, when you look at. her, her background, I don't think she fits the typical idea, the typical model of what you would. think a potential serial killer looks. like. But, I guess you know, she. wouldn't be the first time if these. allegations are true, that looks can be.

deceiving. Yeah, absolutely Jesse. I. mean, when you when you think about what. you know, a serial killer would look. like, she definitely does not fit that. mold. I mean, she's got this angelic. face. She's got this, you know, temperament about her around other. people. which is extremely disarming. And that demeanor in of itself will. allow, you know, her to have the ability. to exploit vulnerabilities within other. people.

It's a good point. I mean, you think. about Ted Bundy and situations like. that. But, I want to get into this, okay? So, once Fernandez was arrested, she allegedly confessed. This is. according to Brazilian civil police and. gave officers details about what. happened. So, let's talk about the. person that Brazilian police believe is. Fernandez's first victim. We're talking. about 51-year-old Marcelo Fonseca. According to the Daily Mail, Fonseca was. killed in Guarulhos. This is back in. January. The Sun reports that Fonseca. was Fernandez's landlord. She claims.

that they had an argument where he. allegedly threatened her family. She. told investigators, according to. reporting from The Sun, that she stabbed. him as he sat on a couch. She then put. up a sheet to block the entrance to the. room so that her son and niece wouldn't. see it. And then allegedly left. Fonseca's body to rot. Police allege she. didn't call to report the death until 5. days after the stabbing when her son. started to complain about the smell. According to The Sun's reporting, Fernandez later burned the couch to.

remove the odors. Now, Chris, lot to. break down here. First of all, you wonder is she a reliable narrator? If this idea, even if it's a claim of I. guess self-defense, maybe that's the. argument, maybe not. The fact that she. waited, the fact that she apparently. tried to cover up or destroy evidence, tried to make sure nobody saw it. I. guess it does cast doubt on her story. Yeah, absolutely. And then we have to. also take into account that, you know, this is Brazil, right? The constitution.

doesn't come into play here, nor does. Miranda or anything like that. So, the. first thing we always have to question. when we're looking at these objectively. is, you know, what pattern. of technique in terms of investiga-. interviewing were utilized. And then the. second piece of this is that particular. crime is kind of, you know, odd when in. measured against the other type of crime.

she may be responsible for. And meaning. a knife was used. So, that's kind of off. for a female serial killer. It's typical. for a male, but not for a female. That's. a very rare situation. And once these. types of situations are accomplished by. a suspect, they did they didn't. anticipate what's on the other side, i.e. a dead body. So, that's a lot of. dead weight. And maybe that's the. situation here where she leaves him.

in the apartment, people start. complaining, and now she has to figure. out, okay, how do I get out of here and. or, you know, how do I destroy this. body? And when I say get out of here meaning. what type of story am I going to make up. to show that this was potentially. self-defense. When you're interviewing a. suspect and usually, I mean, so many of. the cases we cover, they're denying that. they had involvement in something and. then they get caught up. and are contradicted by what other.

evidence investigators may have. But, if. you have somebody who's allegedly. describing the details of a crime, a. killing, and going into specifics, horrifying specifics, and you wonder, are they really making this up? Could. they be making this up on the fly like. this? How do you gauge it? How do you Do you. say, I think this is pretty credible? You know, maybe the sequence of events. might be a little challenging in terms. of, you know, her being threatened. But, saying I stab or allegedly saying I. stabbed him while he's on the couch. doesn't sound good. So, you wonder, is.

this true? Yeah, so one of the things that you want. to do right away is make sure you have a. firm understanding of what that crime. scene looks like. And so, one of the. techniques that. you can utilize is take a chair once. everything has been resolved within side. of that crime scene, i.e. the victim's. been moved, the evidence has been. collected. We used to call it bagging. and tagging. And so, just what you do is you sit. there, you study those walls, you study.

the the scene in of itself. So, that. when you do get somebody who says, "Hey, I'm the person and these are the. intricate details," you're able to. correlate that back to the crime scene. based on ideas and, you know, details. that only the killer would have known. And so, that's that's one way of getting. around it. Now, Fonseca's case was. eventually closed due to a lack of. evidence. This is according to outlet. Carta Capital. But, his daughter called.

for it to be reopened after his former. tenant, right, Fernandez was later tied. to multiple alleged killings. And that's. what we're talking about. Now, in April, the alleged second victim here, a woman. named Maria Aparecida Rodrigues, was. found dead by her sister in São Paulo. CNN Brazil reports that Rodrigues had. discovered Fernandez's affair with a. married military police officer. And. I'll tell you things get a little. complicated here. But, this is what. we've gleaned from multiple Latin. American sources that Fernandez.

allegedly posed as Rodrigues sending. threatening messages to the officer's. wife. Apparently, in an attempt to make. it look like the officer himself may. have killed her as payback. However, CNN. Brazil reports that in the hours before. she died, Rodrigues was at the home. Fernandez shared with her twin sister, Roberta Cristina, having coffee and. cake. And authorities believe that that. cake was laced with some sort of. cleaning solution. Per CNN, Rodrigues. went back to her own home where she was. found dead a few hours later. Now,

Chris, when somebody's body is discovered in. typical investigations, if you're. dealing with poisoning, right, it might. not be clear on the outset that you have. foul play, right? It's different than a. shooting. It's different than a. stabbing. How do you investigate a. potential poisoning case? Well, first of. all, you have to take into consideration. right away that if there is no obvious. evidence of trauma and or, you know,

cause of death, then, you know, drugs, narcotics, poison, all. of that comes into play. And so, what you have to do is. investigate that investigate that crime. scene as if there's going to be, you. know, a one-off like this. Poisoning is. a very rare thing, especially for. females. It's more consistent for. females, about 10. 15% of cases. involve poisoning. itself. And so, what you'd want to try.

to do is look for pattern of life in. relationship to. the suspect that you're investigating. and see if there's any kind of. indication that would have let led them. this way. By the way, interesting that. you're talking about a situation of. alleged poisoning and stabbing, right? It doesn't seem to be consistent. No, it doesn't Jesse. And that's that's. really interesting because then you have. to ask yourself, did did this person. learn from the very first killing? And.

if in fact if they did, then what in. their personality changed? I.e. are they. becoming organ much more organized. offender from the very first situation. potentially being disorganized? And now. they're, you know, basically starting to. work on their craft for lack of a better. term. Mhm. Uh I want to go to this third alleged. victim. So, Brazilian police told. international news outlet Globo that. 65-year-old retiree Neo Correa de Souza.

also died in April after eating, and I. apologize if I'm mispronouncing this, a. poisoned feijoada, which is a type of. Brazilian black bean stew. According to. civil police, her friend, this is de. Souza's daughter, was allegedly involved. in this plot. Yeah, it's believed that. Michelle Paiva de Souza, a classmate. with Fernandez, paid her around 700 US. dollars to travel from Sao Paulo to Rio. de Janeiro and kill her father. So, chief inspector Halisson Ido seemingly.

told Globo that there are text messages. between the two that confirm the. investigator's suspicions. Quote, "We. managed to trace, in Neo's case, the. whole itinerary. We have proof the. conversations that it was a feijoada, the way it was done. And in view of. this, we also have the testimonials of. the people. Ana Paula herself later came. to take over confessing this crime and. reported the whole fact." And Globo's. reporting also indicates, and I'm sorry. to say this, that Fernandez admitted to.

poisoning 10 dogs to see how this poison. worked, the dosage that she would need. In fact, when officers raided her home, they apparently found this banned. pesticide that's similar to rat poison. This is according to the Daily Mail. So, Chris, let's start there. Have you ever seen a case before where. someone is seemingly practicing on. animals in anticipation of a crime on. humans? I've not had a case involving a. poisoning of animals. However, I have. had many cases where long before, um you.

know, humans uh life is taken, that. animals have taken. There's there's what. they call a homicidal triad. There are. three indicators. I mean, your races, fire starting, and animal cruelty. Those. are the that's the triad in of itself. And if you have all three of those. mixing into a personality type uh. through what we call a pattern of life, then those are going to be pretty, you. know, significant once you start seeing.

that type of problem on a crime scene. The fact that she was able to test. 10 uh shepherd dogs, uh as it's being. reported, gives us a little indication. into the fact that she's learning uh. from the very first homicide to the now. potentially the third homicide here, and. that the poisoning of itself separates. her from the crime scene. And that's. consistent with a lot of female uh.

killers. They don't like the blood and. the guts for lack of a better term, i.e. the first stabbing, okay? And so, she's. adapted her method uh in relationship to. her organization of becoming a better. killer. A- And by the way, if these. allegations are true, aside from the. fact that they may have credible. evidence and concrete evidence of the. conversations between them, I I find it. very strange and chilling. Again, if. these allegations are true, that. you have this person that essentially.

hired her, and what you knew what she was capable. of? I mean, that Think about it's not. like a one-off, right? She's Now we're. talking about her being implicated in. the deaths of multiple people, and she. just so happens to be hired for a. contract killing. Doesn't that strike. you as strange? Yeah, it does, Josh, and but interesting. at the same time, right? Because that. means the person hiring her also is. aware of the sadistic nature that this.

personality may have. Uh and so, that really does raise a lot. of red flags. Uh but simultaneously, it's interesting cuz the investigators. are learning as well, right? From the. very first one to the second to the. third, and and they're looking at a. common denominator here, this individual. uh that we're talking about, this. female. So, uh they're going to do what we call a. like pattern of life, right? They're. going to really go into the weeds with. her and kind of figure out, okay, what.

brought her to this particular. particular uh circumstance? Is it power? Is it financial gain? What's her social. economics? Uh what do those things those. circumstances look like? And I want to. talk about now Fernandez's fourth. alleged victim. So, we're talking about. Haider Mahaer, young man from Tunisia. This is per Globo. Fernandez reportedly. met him on a dating app. They had. apparently been in a relationship. His. family told Globo that Fernandez had.

faked a pregnancy to try to get money. from them. He died in his apartment in. May. Carta Capital reports that it is. believed Fernandez gave him a poisoned. milkshake. His body was taken back to. Tunisia to be buried. And I will tell. you, the bodies of Fonseca, Rodriguez, de Souza, they were reportedly exhumed. so medical examiners could determine. their exact causes of death and whether. something like poison was in fact. involved. Chris, is that common to. exhume bodies? And what is the process. in exhuming bodies in a criminal. investigation? Um the process would be.

it's almost like an archaeological dig, right? I mean, you if if they're buried. obviously in a in a coffin or something. to that effect, it's much easier. But if. it's just in Brazil, you know, we don't. know if they're just thrown into an open. grave, you know, with something wrapped. around them. Uh however, once they get. the body, they're sent back down to the. medical examiner's office. Uh the. medical examiner's office is able to go. through some tissue uh if it's available. and or through bone uh and draw some.

type of uh you know, bone marrow out. Uh. if it's a heavy-duty poisoning, uh. there's what they would have called. blunt markers. uh within side of either the tissue and. or the bone. And you're able to identify. the particular poison. uh really specifically. Uh it's an. amazing science, but uh the toxicology. reports will be able to tell you. hypothetically, you know, how many doses. of particular poison, how much narcotics.

if it was a narcotics situation that the. individual uh had into their system. And. um it's a fascinating science, but it it. can definitely be done. Now, here's a question. How did. Fernandez even get on police's radar, right? Well, apparently, she informed. police that she may have been the victim. of an attempted poisoning in April. So, according to the news outlet Folha de. Sao Paulo, Fernandez reported to police. that a cake with a note saying something.

along the lines of, "For the 4D law. class, a cake to sweeten your morning,". that was left in a classroom. She told. police that the note was signed with the. name of her military police lover's. wife. So, the outlet reports that. Fernandez claimed that she hadn't known. the officer was married, that this wife. had threatened her before. Chief. inspector Halisson Ido told Globo, quote, "Ana Paula Veloso came to our. police station because of an alleged. poisoned cake inside a college. She. planted this alleged poison cake to try. to frame a third person. Through this.

investigation, we concluded that Ana. Paula was not the victim in this case, but rather a serial killer." According. to police, this may have been another. attempt by her to frame her military. police lover or his wife with a crime. But an article from Folha de Sao Paulo. says the police spoke with this wife, confirmed she was hundreds of miles away. on the day that the cake showed up at. the law school, said actually she was. the one who was getting threats from. Fernandez on social media, not the other.

way around. And inspector Ido also told. local news outlets that Fernandez tried. to use what she learned in law school to. cover her tracks. What made our. investigation very difficult at first. was the fact that most of the victims. were buried as if they had died from. natural causes. So, we had to do all. this to show to the judiciary, show the. prosecutor of the case that we were. facing a serious thing and be able to. ask for the exhumation of the body and. build the technical evidence, which is. this phase that we find ourselves in at. the moment. He also told the Globo.

newspaper, "It is a cold, unremorseful. person who seems to take pleasure in. manipulating. The fact that she kept. close after the crimes demonstrates the. level of control she sought to exercise. over everything." Chris, your reaction. to all that? You know, it's interesting. because the investigators are obviously. using uh her intellectual arrogance uh. against her. And what they've been able. to do is reverse engineer that into uh. the fact that she's, quote, not.

ordinary, uh I would say, right? And so, what. they're showing is her manipulative. uh personality type, uh which puts her. in a different category. uh above, you know, somebody who would. just spontaneously take uh you know, somebody's life through, you know, passion or greed or whatever, you know, a motive. But in this particular. circumstance, it sounds like she's uh. again, an organized offender who is.

learning from each particular case. And. the fact now that she's taking it even. further, i.e. she's manipulating uh. other people, uh not just killing them, but manipulating the narrative and. pulling other investigators in to really. kind of think through this, puts her at. a very high risk to the community. Uh. and I'm kind of glad they got her off. the street, to be honest with you, based. on what I'm hearing. Yeah, if these. allegations are true. And I'll tell you, you and I had spoken earlier about. something that I thought was interesting.

where uh you you had made the point that. killers, you know, it doesn't when they. commit a crime, they commit a killing, they commit a murder, it doesn't always. turn out the way that they envisioned. it. And you and I talked about how Bryan. Kohberger, right, this PhD criminology. grad student probably thought he was. going to commit the perfect crime and. left more evidence in that case on I've. seen in quite some cases and he's. exactly where he belongs right now. And. you wonder if these allegations are true. and she's a law student and right, you. hear authorities saying she used her law.

her her law teachings to try to to game. the system. Sometimes they leave the. biggest trail of crumbs. more than anyone. Yeah, absolutely, just because they. overthink it, number one, and they don't. anticipate. But remember, a lot of this. stuff is driven. by this thought-based fantasy, right? Okay, these are the things that are. going to happen. This is how I'm going. to handle it, etc. And these offenders. go into these crimes anticipating that. all of those dots are going to be.

connected during the commission of the. crime. What they don't anticipate is. once the victim. has been killed, is now they're stuck. They're stuck with this, you know, potential, you know, 150-lb, 200-lb bag of. concrete, for lack of a better term. And now they have to figure out, okay, what do I do with the concrete? If they. haven't anticipated what to do with. that, they're they really have to go into a.

disorganized. type of you know, disposal process. And. that's why poisoning is so interesting. in this particular case, because like we. talked about in the very first one, a. knife was very brutal, very personal. However, poisoning gives the offender a. distance between the death and having to. remove that particular body and and. overcome that problem. Yeah. And right now, Ana Paula. Fernandes, her twin sister, Rob Roberta.

Cristina, the daughter of one of the. victims, Michelle Pêva da Silva, who we. talked about before, they're all behind. bars right now and under investigation. Why? According to reporting from. Metrópoles, Roberta Cristina allegedly. gave her sister advice on how much money. her twin should charge to kill someone. and how to stay under the radar. Unbelievable. Chris McDonough, thank you. so much for taking the time. Really. appreciate it. Thank you. And that is. all we have for you right now here on. Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so much. for joining us. And as always, please. subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcast,

Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. You can follow me on X or Instagram. I'm. Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next. time. [Music].