Bodies Stack Up in New England Serial Killer Conspiracy

We have been closely following updates. from the Northeast as rumors and. theories about an alleged serial killer. in New England continue to swirl online. Well, I'll tell you what, I had a chance. to sit down with a former FBI profiler. and serial killer expert, Candace Dong, to get her take on the investigation. Welcome to Sidebar, presented by Law and. Crime. I'm Jesse Weber. Right now, at least 11 people have been. found dead in the New England area over.

the past several months. That's. according to reporting from boston.com. Although, of course, there are questions. about whether they're all connected and. whether that number should be the number. that it is. But there are serious. questions right now about could there be. a serial killer stalking states like. Rhode Island, Connecticut, Massachusetts. And these questions and. these rumors and these theories are. starting to ramp up. And it seems the. more police departments try to debunk. the serial killer theory, some online.

slooh are latching on to it as the only. possible explanation. Police and. prosecutors in multiple jurisdictions. say there's no evidence that there's any. connections between any of the cases. In. fact, several sets of remains have not. yet been identified, and it's unclear if. there was any foul play at all in all. these deaths. Other investigations have. turned up answers that point away from a. serial killer. For example, police in. Grten, Connecticut, say they solved the. murder of a woman dismembered and. stuffed into a suitcase. 58-year-old.

Suzanne Worms's remains were found on. March 19th near a cemetery. Investigators say they were able to. connect the death back to a man named. Donald Kofel who'd been living with. Wormser. He reportedly told police that. he killed her. over $200 worth of. missing crack cocaine faces charges of. murder, tampering with evidence, improper disposal of a body. But some of. the most recent cases have been. uncovered in just the last few days. April 22nd, a woman was found dead near. a Springfield, Massachusetts bike path.

Police identified her as 45-year-old. Megan Meredith. While her death is being. investigated as a homicide, police say. they believe this is an isolated. incident. a woman whose remains were. found along the bank of the Connecticut. River in Rocky Hill, Connecticut, April. 27th, identified this week as. 72-year-old Mary Kolanto. She'd been. reported missing back in March. Rocky. Hill police told the Stamford Advocate. that a boater had notified officials. about the discovery when they spotted. her remains near the shoreline. Now, we.

have done a couple of episodes on this. topic, doing deep dives into what has. been discovered over the last few. months. You can check them all out on. Law and Crimes YouTube channel. But the. number of ongoing. investigations and maybe lack of. answers, it is pushing people toward. videos and social media groups that are. dedicated to a so-called New England. serial killer. Some of the Facebook. discussion boards have thousands of. members. And while focusing a lot of. attention on these cases could lead to.

credible tips and leads for sure, unfortunately we live in a day and age. where it could lead up to misinformation. and pranks. And things really reached a. fever pitch when an anonymous post in a. Facebook group originally named New. England serial killer claimed that. bodies were buried at Scarboro Beach in. Naraganit, Rhode Island, and that. sparked police efforts to search the. area with cadaavver dogs. Thing about. that is I spoke with Sergeant Brent. Kuzman of the Narroagan police about. what happened next. Over the Easter.

weekend on the 19th, we were contacted. by multiple people via email, phone. call, Facebook on its uh messenger, we. were advised of some ominous posts in. this New England serial killer uh. Facebook group and their sister Facebook. group. They were all anonymous and they. were definitely eerie, almost poetic. like, and they alluded to bodies being. buried at the northern part of Scarboro. Beach, which is known as Blackpoint.

There are ruins of a carriage house from. the Gilded Age there, known as the. Windswept Ruins, and they're alleged to. be six bodies buried vertically facing. the water. And um it was definitely. ominous. It was worrisome for multiple. people. Dozens contacted us over the. weekend. So on Monday when our unit came. in, we hit the ground running. We. contacted the administrator of the. Facebook post. We received screenshots. of every post, some of which were. deleted at the time, but she already had.

screenshots. And we begin to kind of. piece it together, read it over, and see. really what we were dealing with here. Um, as you know, anonymous Facebook. posts are never really anonymous. the. group admin could see the name of who. posted it and it appeared to be more of. a basic account with no personal. information, what some referred to as a. troll account or a a burner account. And. in the comments section of some of these. posts and other other people's posts, he.

basically told them we were, you know, there's no crime explicitly stated. We. were I'm being metaphorical. I'm a. storyteller. He alluded to working on a. novel, but the people in the group would. not have known that because it was an. anonymous original post. So, Monday we. hit the ground running. We did a quick. search of the area that day. It is a. large area with being beach, trails, and. woods. So, we felt it would be best to.

get cadaavver dogs to search the area as. well. So, we coordinated with the Rhode. Island State Police for a Wednesday. search of the area. I had my three. detectives go down with their two dogs. They independently searched the area one. by one. They came to the conclusion that. there was no indication from either of. the canines of any remains in the area. But um so what we basically had was. maybe a half cockeyed confession but. with no bodies. So, we didn't believe it. was credible information, but it was. definitely worrisome and there was a lot.

of community concern about this. To have. potentially six bodies buried in town. would be a shocking, horrifying. discovery. So, it's something we wanted. to get out there and kind of make sure. it wasn't anything. Um, I'd rather do. something and go over the board with the. search not do enough and it be. something. So, to get further insight. into these kinds of investigations and. maybe what's happening here, I want to. bring on a very special guest for all of. you true crime fans, you will know this.

person very well. Former FBI profiler, true crime docuer host, host of the. Killer Psyche Show, Candace Dong. Candace, so good to see you. Thanks so. much for coming here on Cybar. Appreciate it. Oh, thanks a lot, Jesse. Happy to be here. So, I got to ask you, you know, in your professional opinion, do you think any of these cases are. connected? Do you think we have a serial. killer amongst us? Unlikely. And there's. no evidence of the uh there's no.

evidence of it whatsoever. That may turn. out to be the case. Some of them are. connected, but there's no evidence now. some of the bodies, but at least one of. the bodies was so decomposed when it was. reported, they couldn't even tell not. only the cause of death, whether it was. a homicide, natural accident, they. couldn't even tell what gender it was. until they did more investigation. So, I.

think um the internet rumors are fun, but they're uh a little too early. Hey, so I know you all might be true crime. fans, but are you also in a business? If. so, let me tell you about our sponsor, ODO. ODU is an incredible all-in-one. business management software that. provides you with a range of. applications like their sales tool, the. Cananban Pipeline. Game changer. Whether. you're working with leads or full-blown. opportunities, you can visually track. every stage of your sales process. You. just drag and drop to move deals.

forward. It's fast and honestly kind of. satisfying. When it's time to send a. quote, it's literally a couple of clicks. and the reporting super clear. You get a. live view of your pipeline, conversions, what's working, so you can focus on. closing and not guessing. Right now, you. can get a free 15-day trial of ODO's. all-in-one business solution and see how. it can make your life a little bit. easier. Check it out at. odo.com/sidebar CRM. Unfortunately in. this country there are homicides, there. are deaths everywhere all the time. Why. do you think we are seeing in this.

geographical area uh why the focus on. this particular region these particular. deaths? Why do you think we're seeing. this chatter about possible connections. and a possible similarity and a possible. pattern and a possible killer who's. responsible or killers responsible for. all this? Why do you think we're seeing. that? Well, um, the tri-state area, Connecticut, Rhode. Island, and. Massachusetts, the population, I did. some math, the population over 20 years.

old, is about 10 million people in that. tri-state area. And those combined. states have about 300 homicides a year. Now that includes domestic violence, homicides committed in the home, premeditated spousal murder, um school. shootings, all everything is is in that. 300 a year. What we're looking at here. is.

nine potentially potentially nine. homicides. And I'm they're really not. even sure they're all homicides. I. haven't figured it out. But if you take. another population in a particular g. geographic area of 10 million people. over 20 years old, and I only say over. 20 because all of the victims were over. 20. Um, it might be the very same thing. or not too much, not exactly the same, but not too much different. 300 murders.

per 10 million people annually of people. over 20 years old. That I don't know the. answer to. What I do know is that's. what's happening in this tri-state area. And I don't know why this has caught the. attention of the internet sleuths. Thousands of people, thousands of people. part of these groups thinking there. could be something here. I mean, let's. just play devil's advocate for a second. Let's just hypothetically, let's say. there, what would be certain signs you.

would be looking for to say, you know. what, wait a minute. I think there might. be a serial killer foot. What would be. some characteristics? What would be some. things that you would be looking at. saying, "Wait a minute. I think we have. to take a second look. These might be. connected. We might have a serial killer. in our midst.". Well, there's a few things that would uh. make me sit up straight in my chair. And. that would be uh how were the bodies all. determined to be. homicide? And what was the cause of.

death? Was it blunt force trauma? Was it. stabbing? Was it shooting? uh that kind. of. thing. Also, I would perk up if the uh. what we call a dump site if the bodies. were. all disposed of in a in a certain. geographic area, smaller, tighter area. Now, there are some serial killers that. travel uh a lot and they kill all along.

the way. Maybe they're cross-country. truckers or drifters. I do understand. that, but for the most part with serial. killers, that is not the case. Also, if. there were any kind of connection. whatsoever uh between the victims, for. example, if all of the victims were sex. workers who. uh solicited clients in a particular.

part of. town and um street walking sex workers. are at very high risk to be victimized. by a killer or a serial killer. and that. has not been determined. But if those. things. were determined, then I would say, "Okay, we need to look at this." And by. the way, Jesse, um, in any serial killer. case, there may be bodies that were. found that have nothing to do with the.

serial killer, but are initially lumped. into the mix, like Gilgo. Like Gilgo. Yes. Right. Yes. And that raises an. interesting question because some people. online have pointed out that if there's. not a serial killer, it's almost worse. because aside putting aside the cases. where you might have an accident or the. manner of death might be something else, it's almost worse because people are.

saying and what are we dealing with. multiple killers out there? And that. actually made me think certain of these. areas where remains are found could be. situations where that might just be an. advantageous area to dispose of a body. Unfortunately, I mean, we've seen that. happen before. So, you look at people. online who say this could actually be. worse because you multiple different. unrelated crimes and killers. That's a. concerning aspect too, right?

Well, like I said, for that particular. tight geographic area, the tri in that. tri-state, uh, 300 homicides a year. Yeah. We're talking about somewhere. between 9 and 11. And one of the one of. the ones that have been lumped in has. already been determined was a homicide. It was the suitcase outside or inside. the cemetery. And it was determined that. was a domestic violence homicide. and.

there's been an arrest. So, take that. one out of the mix. Um, it never. belonged in it anyway. It was only the. only body found in a suitcase. Some. serial killers do not repeat the same. murder behavior over and over and over. with with as as they kill. They may not. stab all their victims or shoot them or. tie them up or dispose of their body in. the woods. They may do different things, but that is unusual because serial.

killers. are living out a fantasy. They're. they're what they do to another person. is. fantasydriven based on a fantasy they've. been having since they were a kid uh. early adolescent and now as an adult. they're acting it out. And that is the. reason why we see a repetition of the. MMO over and over and over again. The.

fantasy doesn't change. For example, one. serial killer may prefer to go into a. victim's home and kill them there. Others may prefer to lure the victim to. go with them in their car. Um various. things. And then once they have them. alone, they do what they do. But it's. usually the same thing over and over. And there so far has not been a. connection like that found with these.

bodies because wouldn't it be that you. have a killer who commits a crime, they. see it works. They might not be caught. immediately. They say, "Oh my gosh, you. know, aside from what the proclivities. are or their MO, if something works, I'm. going to keep on doing it in the same. manner." Right? That's you're applying logic and. reasoning to uh something that's very. hard to understand. Fair that fantasy. Yeah, of course, every time they get. away with it, it emboldens them to do it. again and to do it again in the same.

way. But whatever fantasy they've been. nursing for, in some cases more than a. decade or two, uh, is going to take. precedent over everything else they do. By the way, Candace, when does the FBI. come in? When do they come in to help. investigate these kinds of cases? Well, um, homicide is a, um, state, an offense. of the state, the state of Connecticut,

Rhode Island, Massachusetts. So, unless it happens on. a murder happens on federal land, then. it's immediately the FBI's, but the FBI. has to be invited in by the law. enforcement department working the case. Now, the behavioral science unit um or. now I believe they call it something. different, critical incident or. behavioral analysis or something like. that. Um they're always available for.

consultation on things like this, but. they have to get a phone call. They. don't just run in and take over the. case. That makes sense. And obviously, they have different resources than local. jurisdictions. Um, by the way, if if if. any of the viewers have watched police. dramas or true crime documentaries, they've probably heard of something. called and and correct me if I'm. mispronouncing it, uh, VCAP or VCAP. Um, I don't know if I'm pronouncing it, VCAP. Um, can you tell us a little bit.

more about these databases, why they're. beneficial, what kind of information can. be entered, searched by who, things like. that? VCAP stands for violent criminal. apprehension program and it was. developed in the early 80s. It is the. brainchild of a homic homicide. detective. And what it is. uh homicide detectives and it's not just. homicide there's but for this particular.

one um can use this database. They need. to input information from their case. For example, uh a body of a. 15-year-old female was found in the. woods, manual strangulation, no. criminals, no sexual assault, um all the. details. Was she found naked? Was she. were her clothes there? Anything about. it? and that. information put in the computer and the.

computer or the the system the. platform let's say there's a serial. killer who or the the Rhode Island. murder we're talking about or the Rhode. Island body and it's the same killer. that did something in Massachusetts or. Connecticut and those detectives feed. all the information they have minute. details. uh into the VCAP system. The VCAP system.

is going to kick it out the FBI and say, "Hey, we've got a series of. similar types of behaviors that resulted. in someone's murder or disposal site or. something." And so then the FBI contacts. all of those departments and says, "Hey, Connecticut, you need to talk to this. detective over here in Rhode Island. He. has an extremely similar case." Now,

this was. developed before DNA was uh became what. it is today. Today, DNA left at crime. scenes. Um, so now of course if there. were DNA, there's another system, database system, COTUS, which is the DNA. system. And. um, I think it's been 40 years now since. VCAP got started. So there's a lot of. information in there and it and it has.

is my understanding resulted. in. many. multi-jurisdictional issues, murderers, those detectives being all put in touch. with each other and working the case to. fruition. I mean that's great and that's great. And that's why, you know, circling back. to this idea about connections and the. public's help. Look, you are a a a. profiler. you were somebody who studied. human behavior. Just to circle back to.

this when we're thinking about people. trying to see if there was a serial. killer or connections here. Why do you. think so many people will latch on to a. theory like a crime spree, a serial. killer? You mentioned before that it. seems I think you the word used was fun. Um is it exciting? Talk to us about why. we're seeing this. What 65,000 people in. a group thinking there could be a New. England serial killer or at least. engaging in that conversation. Why do. you think that is? And by the way, does. it help or hurt an investigation? It can.

hurt an. investigation if people um Okay, let's. go back to the Idaho, Moscow, Idaho. murder of the four students. Sure. A. couple November ago. Yep. There was a. lot of online sleuththing and it became. a problem when they were identifying. people that they thought were. responsible. Yeah. Uh that can have. disastrous. consequences. It really can.

Um I think the. reasons there's that people do this are. multiaceted. First, it is fun to be a. part of a group trying to solve a. problem. That's fun. Uh another thing is. there's they get reinforcement from each. other. They can share ideas. and I don't need to tell you Jesse how. unbelievably popular true crime has. become in the last five years. It is the.

biggest single I think genre. um uh a particular genre dominating. television and podcasting. And I frequently get. asked, people will come up and say, "Candi, Candace, I'm fascinated by this stuff. Is there something wrong with me?" To. which my response is, "No, there's. something right with you. If someone is. being was murdered in your community or.

a little kid was snatched or this is. something human to human and you're a. human in that community, you need to. know what's going on." And there's. something to be learned from every. single incident, every single homicide, to keep yourself. safe. So, I think that's all a part of. it. And when I say there's something to. be learned to keep yourself safe, let me. give you an. example regarding the case we're talking.

about of of these bodies being found. A. number of them were found in the woods. When I was an FBI agent in Chicago, Chicago, of course, huge, huge city. And. they have these things in Chicago. They're not called parks. They're called. uh forest preserves. They're like a huge. park. You can I used to ride my bike, you know, 13 miles back and forth. through one of them on a bike path. I.

lost count of the number of cases I had. being brought to me by detectives in the. greater Chicago area. of women that were. murdered in forest preserves. All right, now back to the case we're talking. about. Some of these bodies were found. in densely forested areas. Here's my. safety tip. Ladies, especially ladies and teenage. girls, do not walk in uh the forest or.

the woods by yourself. And I wouldn't. even do it with a girlfriend. It's just. not safe. That is incredibly important advice. Um. and I unfortunately I've seen exactly. what you're saying and I couldn't agree. more. Um Candace Dong, thank you so. much. Appreciate it. Happy to be here, Jesse. Anytime. And that's all we have. for you right now here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so much for joining. us. And as always, please subscribe on.

YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you should get your podcasts. I'm Jesse Weber. I'll speak to you next. time. [Music].