Bodies Buried on Epstein’s Ranch?

There is a new bombshell allegation in. the Epstein files [music] that dead. bodies are buried on one of the deceased. financier's famous properties. We are. going through the allegations, the. launch of a new investigation, and I'm. going to bring on a professional coroner. to discuss is this even possible? [music] Can the alleged bodies be found. and properly examined? Welcome to. Sidebar presented by Law & Crime. I'm. Jesse [music] Weber. Jeffrey Epstein has been called a lot of.

things and he has been accused of a lot. of things. But killer? Being responsible. for the cover-up of violent deaths? That. would be a new one. But I got to say, what are we supposed to make of these. new allegations coming out of the. Epstein files? Because as you may know, we've been covering as best as we can. the existing files that were released. from the Department of Justice. And. something came out that we got to talk. about. Buried in the millions and. millions of pages, there is an email. that has now stood out for a very dark.

reason. There is an email from November. 2019. It's directed to an Edward Aragon. According to KOB 4, he's a local radio. host. The other names are redacted in. this email, but this is what it says, quote, Edward, this is sensitive, so. it'll be the first and last email. depending on your discretion. You can. choose to take it or trash it, but this. comes from a person that has been there. and seen it all as a former staff at the. Zorro. The material below was taken from.

Jeffrey Epstein's home as my insurance. in case of future litigation against. Epstein. Sorry, no questions. What is. damning about Jeffrey Epstein is yet to. be written. Did you know somewhere in. the hills outside the Zorro, two foreign. girls were buried on orders of Jeffrey. and Madame G? Both died by strangulation. during rough fetish sex. And there even. appear to be links to reported sex. videos including one that says, "Sex. video with minor." And then it goes on.

to say, "Please arrange for one Bitcoin, BTC, by 6:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. today, Thursday, 11/22/19, to the BTC wallet address" that's. redacted. "The USB will be sent. anonymously to your attention by. overnight courier upon receipt of the. funds. You have my assurance this is. exclusive, never shared before, no. attorneys, no samples, no questions, please confirm ASAP." So, Zorro, by the. way, is referring to Zorro Ranch. It's. about 30 mi south of Santa Fe, New. Mexico. We've talked about this Epstein.

property before. We had found evidence. that upon Epstein's death, he wanted. this property, along with all of his. major properties, to go to Carina. Shuliac, his purported secret. girlfriend. This is in trust documents. and will documents. Now, Epstein, based. on the reporting here, apparently. purchased the 7,500-acre property from. former New Mexico Governor Bruce King in. 1993. And there were several civil. lawsuits that accused Epstein of. sexually assaulting girls at this. property. It was dubbed the Playboy.

Ranch, where Epstein, in fact, is. accused of sexually abusing a. 16-year-old girl as early as 1996. And. for example, you have this unsealed 2016. court deposition, where the Epstein. accuser, renowned Epstein accuser, Virginia Giuffre, testified that. Ghislaine Maxwell ordered her to give. the late former New Mexico Governor Bill. Richardson a massage at the ranch. Now, this radio host, Arrogant, said that he. got this message anonymously. He sent.

the email to the FBI, which is why, by. the way, it was in the Epstein files to. begin with, why it was released from the. DOJ. And he indicated that he didn't pay. this person, which, when you think about. one Bitcoin, back in the day, was. reportedly worth about $8,000 at the. time. And he indicated that while he. spoke to an FBI agent, he never heard. anything more from it, didn't know the. status of the investigation. Now, let me. be clear about something, okay? We. couldn't find more corroborating. evidence to support this claim that, you. know, there dead bodies somewhere in the.

area of this ranch or on the ranch. We. don't know if these allegations are. true, but if they are true, when would. this have happened? We don't know that. either. But, apparently, I will tell. you, this ranch, this claim, is being. taken seriously. And a little bit, I'm. going to be bringing on a professional. coroner to determine what could we. expect here? What potential evidence. could be left behind? How can you even. find a body? What will be left to. actually examine? How much can we tell. here? But, the reason that we're even. bringing a coroner on and talking about. this is because this claim is getting.

serious attention. You have New Mexico's. Land Commissioner, Stephanie Garcia. Richard, who sent a letter to the New. Mexico Department of Justice and the US. Attorney's Office requesting a full. investigation. According to KOB 4, Epstein had apparently leased land. around this ranch from the State Land. Office, did it through a company called. Cypress Ink. But, Garcia Richard ended. that lease in light of what happened. with Epstein. And in a further. escalation, the Chief Deputy Attorney. General, James Grayson, said the.

Department of Justice is taking these. allegations seriously, only has so much. information right now to go forward with. because they're working to try to get. the original documents to try to verify. these accusations. Grayson saying, quote, "As we understand it, the. allegations appear to be unsubstantiated. and stem from an anonymous individual. referencing events that purportedly. occurred more than six years ago. We. will work to obtain the original. unredacted emails and any underlying. files as access to complete and. authentic materials is critical to our. assessment and planning. These.

circumstances raise significant concerns. regarding the reliability, authenticity, and credibility of the claims. Notwithstanding those concerns, we are. prepared to review and assess any. verifiable information should it be. provided through appropriate and lawful. means." Stephanie Garcia Richard saying, quote, "It is our responsibility to. manage this land, and if it was being. used for nefarious purposes, if it was. being used for criminal purposes, we. need to know." All right, before we move. on, I got to give a quick shout-out to. our partner, CyberGhost VPN. Look, have.

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risk-free with a 45-day money-back. guarantee. Click the link in the. description and start protecting your. digital life today. Now, in some latest. reporting, the New Mexico Department of. Justice apparently sent a letter to the. feds seeking the unredacted copies of. this email, and you had the New Mexico. Department of Justice Chief of Staff, Lauren Rodriguez, telling Source New. Mexico in a statement, quote, "While we. have not yet received a response to our. letter sent last Friday, we are. reviewing all appropriate avenues to.

investigate the allegations raised, as. well as any additional ones that may. emerge. We also continue to engage with. the Truth Commission leadership to. ensure coordinated communication and. meaningful participation in the ongoing. fact-finding mission. I'm going to talk. about the truth commission in a minute. Now, back to Garcia Richard. She said in. an interview, you know, while the state. land office and hundreds of pages of. Zorro Ranch leasing records to the New. Mexico attorney general in 2019, Garcia. Richard said, "I have a lot of. frustration that we are now 7 years. beyond the initial cancellation of the.

leases and to my knowledge, not one. member of law enforcement has. investigated the ranch or state land.". And in her letter to the DOJ, she added, "We are fully committed to assisting. with an investigation in any way. possible, including providing access to. state lands adjacent to the former Zorro. Ranch." So, assuming, you know, these. bodies are really buried, where exactly. are they buried? You even had US. Representative Melanie Stansbury, who. issued a video-recorded statement, spent. a fair amount of my time this morning.

looking at the files on Zorro Ranch. Um there's some dark dark stuff there. And I think it's really. um important that our colleagues um. state house representatives. Mariana Anaya and Andrea Romero are. conducting this truth commission because. the FBI never did a full forensic. investigation of the ranch property.

And it's clear that crimes were. committed there. And um people knew about it. There were. victims who went to the FBI, who went to. law enforcement, and those crimes were. never. followed up on and the ranch was sold. from the estate before. a full investigation could be done. So, there's a lot of unanswered. questions about Zorro Ranch in New.

Mexico, what went down there, why it was. not fully investigated, why people were. not held accountable and frankly as a. New Mexican. um. you know to anyone who was hurt there. I just my heart goes out to you. Guess. what happened yesterday? New Mexico lawmakers on Monday, they. passed legislation to launch a. full-scale investigation here. You have.

a committee of both Republicans and. Democrats who are going to have subpoena. power, they're going to try to get. testimony from survivors of the alleged. abuse that happened at this ranch and. local residents to testify all at the. state capital. So, the person who maybe. sent that 2019 email, will they come. forward? I don't know. But according to. Reuters, this probe is going to cost. about two two and a half million. dollars, reportedly funded through a. settlement between the AG's office and. financial services companies for failing. to address the alleged abuses at this.

property and the idea is here, they want. to transform the law. They want to amend. the law that may have allowed Jeffrey. Epstein to allegedly operate the way he. is accused of operating at this property. and the preliminary findings are due in. July. There's a full final report that's. going to be due by year's end and you. have to wonder, is it going to include. allegations about dead bodies? Representative Andrea Romero, she said. that they're going to use subpoenas and. public records and testimonies quote to. put the whole story together and in a.

statement following the vote to launch. all this, Romero said that quote New. Mexicans deserve to know the truth about. what went on at the Zorro Ranch and who. knew about it. We have heard years of. allegations and rumors about Epstein's. activities in New Mexico, but. unfortunately federal investigators have. failed to put together an official. record. With this truth commission, we. can finally fill in the gaps by. investigating the failures that led to. the horrific allegations of abuse and. crime at Zorro Ranch so we can learn. from them and prevent such atrocities.

from taking place in our state going. forward. This is a complication, maybe a. complication. Got to mention it. So, while the 1,200 acres that were. previously leased by Epstein's company. is still public and unleased, this is. according to Garcia Richard, guess who. owns the actual ranch today? The family. of Texas businessman and politician. Donald Huffines. It was bought in 2023. by an LLC. This LLC was apparently. created just 1 month before. And. Huffines is actually running for.

statewide comptroller's office. And. according to the New Mexican, the Zorro. Ranch was renamed the San Rafael Ranch. located at San Rafael Road. By the way, what was the purchase price? Reportedly, it was listed in 2021 for over $27. million, but the sales price may have dropped to. $18 million. We don't know what it was. actually bought for. Although, I will. tell you there's a side note, the LLC. made the argument, given the ties to. Epstein along with the lower sales. price, that's why it was actually valued. at only $13.4 million in 2023 for tax.

purposes. Interesting side note. By the. way, public business filings apparently. indicated that at one point Huffine's. son, Colin, was the manager of the LLC. Then you had Alan Blakemore, spokesperson for the family, who. released the statement saying, "Four. years after Mr. Epstein's death, the. Huffines family purchased property in. New Mexico listed at public auction. whose proceeds benefited his victims. Prior to the auction listing, they had. never visited the property." Now, I will.

tell you this. The Huffines family did. indicate that they would fully cooperate. with this New Mexico investigation if. authorities wanted to search the. property. That's big. And it is being. reported that the feds haven't even. searched this ranch as of December 2019. So, one of the things that's come out is. you had the former AG Hector Balderas. wrote a letter to then US Attorney John. Anderson in October of 2019 about a. joint investigation. Quote, "My office. has been actively investigating and.

assisting other state and federal. agencies with their investigations. related to criminality perpetrated in. New Mexico by Jeffrey Epstein." And. Balderas wrote and requested that the. United States Attorney's Office quote. "explore initiating the process to seize. Epstein's New Mexico land holdings." But. now all these years later, it's coming. up again. And by the way, Zorro Ranch, it came up quite a bit in the Epstein. files. Several photographs released in. the Epstein files show women or girls, their faces apparently redacted at Zorro. Ranch. I'll give you an example. In the. files, there's a 2015 itinerary or.

that's what it appears to be, presumably. for Epstein, and it says, "Saturday, August 1st, 2015, Zorro. Sunday, August. 2nd, 2015, Zorro, San Francisco. Reminder, late into the island today. 11:18 a.m., depart Zorro. 12:18 p.m., arrive San Jose." There's a lot of. correspondence regarding the ranch, too, in the Epstein files. In fact, it. appears the ranch is mentioned over. 4,000 times. A lot of the correspondence. between 2012 and 2018, you have the. ranch as the sender or receiver in.

emails. There's even a email signature. that says Zorro Management LLC. So, with. all that in mind, what would it take for. there to be an excavation of potential. bodies on this property? And if bodies. are found, what would it show? That's. what I want to talk about. Okay, so want. to bring on Richland County Coroner Dr. Nada Rutherford. Thank you so much for. taking the time. It's good to see you. Um okay, this is a big allegation. We. don't know if this is true. Obviously, we're talking about the fact that now an. investigation is being launched into.

this property. You know, it's about uh. sexual abuse allegations, but who knows. what else they might be able to find. during the course of this if they have. uh residents and and and, you know, survivors speak out about what they saw. What would it take for authorities to. actually go around the property and try. to excavate to find bodies. Let's start. right there. First of all, you have New Mexico. The. terrain there is going to be extremely. difficult. It's dry, it's rugged.

terrain, it's it's rough. Um so, any. excavation that's going to happen, they're going to need to have some idea. about where this could possibly take. place on this property, unless they're. going to dig up the entire property, which is not very prudent of them. So, they would need some sort of ground. penetrating um. devices that could help to to look and. see if there's some sort of grave there, if they put this person in a box, if. they um. if they buried them with something. special that's not supposed to to be in.

the ground naturally. So, they're going. to need a lot of technology first before. they just go digging around this. property. And it's a big property. It's. a big property, and this allegation. doesn't even let is not even clear about. when these, you know, these people were. allegedly buried there, which makes me. wonder it it even if you were digging, what could you potentially find? What. would be left over? You're going to have skeletal remains at. this point. The these allegations.

purport that this happened so long ago. And so, not only did they say that these. are possibly minors, so you have smaller. bodies that are potentially buried. You. have uh scavengers that are in this area. again, animals that are indigenous to. this area that are. Again, it is very hard to dig a grave. unless you have special equipment. So, and especially on that type of terrain. So, did they have special equipment? We. know that, you know, supposedly these. people have a a lot of money, they have. a lot of resources. So, if they tapped.

into those resources, they could have. done this properly. But again, that's. why the technology piece of this is. going to be so important to be able to. see where they could have possibly. buried someone. And then, the amount of. time that has passed, it's going to be. grown over. You're not going to be able. to see, you know, freshly disturbed. ground as you would for someone who has. maybe been recently buried. And so, again, this is going to take a long time. and those excavation efforts are. probably just going to reveal skeletal. remains, which then you're going to have. to extract DNA from possibly the femur.

bones. And then, who are these supposed. minors that were there? Do their. families know that they're missing? Where were they trafficked from? So, not. only are you trying to pinpoint country. of origin possibly since they say that. these minors were possibly from foreign. countries, now you're going to have to. try to track down family utilizing DNA, skeletal remains. Again, you look at the. femur bone, you're trying to gather the. DNA from there, but what else could you. do? Dental records and things, but you. must know the identity of the person in.

order to be able to do that. Can you. elaborate on that? So, even if they find. remains, you're saying it could be very, very difficult to establish a identity, but B, cause and manner of death? Absolutely. Unless that they Unless they. did something that affected the skeleton. of the person, soft tissue injuries are. not going to be are not going to be. readily apparent in someone who has been. buried, especially if they've been. buried for a really long time. That soft. tissue eventually.

becomes desiccated and and and goes. away. It goes back to the earth. And so, you're not going to see much. So, unless. unless they were blunt force trauma, you. know, stabbed, shot, something like. that, you may not see those things. You. could see broken bones potentially, but. again, how well preserved is the. skeleton? And that's going to be very. important. How quickly were these. persons supposedly buried? Again, lots. of allegations, lots of speculation, but. if you are searching for bones, then. you're going to need technology to to.

look over all of that terrain. So, in. other words, if we take these. allegations as true that you have these. girls die as a result of strangulation, it may be very difficult to actually see. that. Yes, it will. And again, how well was. the body preserved before burial? Meaning the hyoid bone, which is located. here in the neck, it's a protected bone, but usually that's what we see broken in. someone who has died from strangulation. And so, you'll see that that piece again. of the hyoid bone the hyoid bone broken.

off, but you also see soft tissue. injury. So, if the body is not well. preserved, then you're not going to see. those things. And again, after all this. time, all of that soft tissue is going. to be gone. So, in a regular autopsy. where we suspect strangulation, you're. going to see uh particular hemorrhaging, you're going to see bleeding within the. strap muscles of the neck. You're going. to see that damage that happens from. someone being strangled. But, in. skeletons, you don't see those things. Again, unless there is severe blunt. force injury to that area. And again, small tiny bones, you have insects and.

things that are going to feed on the. body when it's buried. And so, again, you may lose a lot of that evidence. Couple of questions about that. And and. I apologize if you're repeating. yourself. I I just want to clarify. Is. there any way to determine the age, um. whether it's from, you know, an. anthropologist coming in or looking at. the like you said, maybe dental records. if it's possible or the bones. Is there. any way to determine age? Yes, absolutely. And this is where. forensic anthropologist is going to be. really important. We have two that work.

in our office, PhDs, who teach me so. much on a daily basis about just how. they make these determinations. So, femur length is going to be important. They're going to measure those bones. They're going to make sure that any part. of that skeletal remain that they find. that they try to put that body together. as anatomically correct as possible. And. then they'll start getting their. information from there. So, again, the. measurements of those bones, um not only. just the femur length, but also head. circumference and those different. things. Basing those anthropo- um.

those anthropology measurements, those. are going to be very important in terms. of assessing them and comparing them to. what someone's age could be for the for. the measurements that they find. So, again, I always refer to forensic. anthropologist on that and they're going. to need quite a few if they do get to a. point where they're going to do. excavation because you don't want to. lose any evidence. You can't just dig it. up. It has to be done very carefully, methodically, and it's a very. time-intensive process. And can you just. elaborate a little bit more on the. dental records, what may or may not be.

available there? So, whenever we look at dental records, we look at the shape of the jaw, we look. for any. fillings, any cavities, any bridge work, anything that may be present, braces, for example. They come from someplace. So, again, they're useless if we don't. know a potential identity of the person. because we would have to be able to go. to that dental office and subpoena those. records and say, "Hey, could you please. give us the dental records for this. person so that we can compare what we.

have found with these skeletal remains.". Again, I think TV sometimes. tricks us into thinking that we can just. use dental records and all of a sudden. we can find out everything we need to. know about a person, but you have to. have a a possible identity for someone. before you just go digging through. dental records. Well, let's say there's. a crown or a filling or. braces, there's no way to extract DNA. from that? Sometimes there is, but you have the. femur bone, which is going to give you a. lot more information. So, any of the.

bones you can. get DNA from them, but that femur bone. is going to have the best and that's. usually what we utilize. They cut a. little window into the bone and that's. usually what's utilized for DNA and and. those purposes. So, again, that larger. bone is going to have more information. What happens, again, we're we're. speculating here, but assuming there are. bodies here for a moment. If they're buried with items, >> [cough]. >> you know, I'm [clears throat] not saying. that they'll be ID, but if they're.

buried wearing clothing, would any of. the clothing or materials that were. buried with them, would that remain um. at that point? What have you seen in. your experience? I'm not cuz obviously. if you're dealing with somebody who's. nude, right? That's That's kind of what. we're talking about, but if they were. buried with articles of clothing um or. items, talk to me about the ability of. that to be preserved and the ability to. extract DNA or other forensic material. from it. Oh, there's [clears throat] definitely. the possibility of extracting DNA and. other items. You have to think hairs,

people often don't think about that your. hair sheds. Um other fibers get. transferred during burial process. Most. people are not experienced criminals, and that's what people fail to realize. Most people have not committed these. types of crimes before, and so they make. a lot of mistakes in the process. Again, what kind of resources they had access. to, I don't know, and again, I don't. know anything about this case. I'm. simply commenting on the possibility. that bodies are on this land. And so,

for me, for my office, when we've had. skeletal remains partially buried or. buried for a long time and we've done. the ground penetrating radar and found. what we needed to find, we've removed. those skeletal remains very carefully. So, even the area, the dirt around the. body, we're going to preserve a lot of. that as well and take samples from it. because it can sometimes give you great. information. So, there are There is the. possibility that very valuable. information can be obtained from what. was buried with that person. And usually.

what we see in our line of work is when. people bury someone, they bury their. stuff with them. So, the DNA from their. things, um if they put something in someone's. mouth, it could possibly have saliva on. it, which again has DNA. Hair, just. because the skeletal remains are there, it doesn't mean that the hair goes away. Sometimes we find skeletons that still. have hair attached. So, again, these are. things that could be very helpful in. determining the identity of this person, but it could also give us pertinent. information about who may have buried. this person. Like you said, like hair of. someone else. So, just to be clear, hair.

can stay for quite some time even if. buried underground? Yes, it can. I mean, we've seen this. with um excavations from around the. world and looking at um people from the. supposed Neanderthal, you know, era. They have found hair. And so, again, that gives you a lot of information. And. hair retains things. It retains things. like drugs. It retains um nutritional. information sometimes. So, again, anything that's with that body, they're. going to want and they're going to want. to excavate this in the most careful way.

possible. I cannot stress this enough. that they cannot just go in there just. digging and doing it very roughly. It. needs to be layer by layer by layer. And. it is a very time-intensive process. Shout out to all of the forensic. anthropologists out there because their. work, especially on a case like this, is. going to be so vital. What would it take. for an excavation to be ordered in. something like this? In your experience, when you've seen cases, I mean, there's. one thing to have this right now. uncorroborated account. But obviously,

they're taking it seriously. They're. trying to look into it and see what they. can find. In your experience, what would. it take for them to go around the. property to excavate, to use. ground-penetrating. uh devices to try to find a body? What. would it take? Well, usually it takes that someone is. missing and they have a possible. location for this missing person. I know. here in Richland County, we receive. calls all the time, "Hey, we need help. We have a tip that this missing person. may be in this well, or they may be in. this part of this 40-acre piece of.

land." And we'll we will work with other. agencies to utilize their technology to. see if this is a possibility that. someone is there. And then we have cases. like the case of Adriana Laaster who the. they were just digging in the landfill. and and bones were found. So, again, were bones found? Is there some. sort of um suspicion that there are. missing persons on this property. So, usually it just takes someone leaving a. tip or giving information that that. could be related to a missing person for.

them to go and start digging. But again, they are going to need technology to. even begin looking through all of this. land because there's just so much of it. How do you find which section? Are they. going to go section by section and do a. grid kind of dig? I don't know, but it's. going to take a lot of logistics. And. how long would that take if they went. section by section using ground. penetrating devices? I mean, how quickly. can you get a hit? Weeks, months. Um. for for an area that is known to.

possibly have a buried person, that can. take a couple of hours. But for the. amount of land that these uh researchers. and that these uh investigators are. looking at, this could take weeks in. order to pinpoint an area. So, they may. have to have multiple devices out there. trying to find what is possibly a grave. Doctor Neda Rutherford, this is a. fascinating discussion. We are obviously. in the early preliminary stages of this, but I wanted to have you on just to give.

us something to think about as we're. trying to understand this allegation. And now that there's an investigation. into this property, how could I not talk. about it? But again, really interesting. things to think about. Um so, we'll see. what happens. But doctor, thank you for. taking the time. Really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you so much. And. that's all we have for you right now. here on Sidebar, everybody. Thank you so. much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple. Podcast, Spotify, wherever you should. get your podcast. We're also up on NBC's. Peacock [music] as well. If you want to. follow me, X, Instagram, my NewsNation. show Jesse Weber Live, Monday through.

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