7 Shocking Moments in Charlie Kirk Murder Case Showdown

And then Lance replies, "You [music]. weren't the one who did it right." And. Tyler says, "I am. I'm sorry.". >> Tyler Robinson, the young [music] man. accused of assassinating Charlie Kirk at. a Utah college, sat pretty quietly in a. courtroom this week [music] as. prosecutors laid out critical pieces of. alleged evidence against him at a very. [music] important preliminary hearing. And if this case goes to trial, he's. staring down the death penalty. I started crying a little bit and said. he wishes he hadn't done it.

>> From testimony from Robinson's alleged. lover to details about those engravings. found on bullet casings, [music]. a demand from Charlie Kirk's widow, DNA. evidence, all of this. We are going to. cover it all. We're going to analyze. some [music] of the biggest moments from. the days long's hearings and ask the. question, is it enough for this [music]. case to move forward towards trial? And. has enough been shown to dispel [music]. potential conspiracy theories? Welcome. to Sidebar, presented by Law and Crime.

I'm Jesse Weber. This is one of the most high-profile. cases in the country right now. A judge. is hearing evidence against Tyler. Robinson, the 23-year-old accused of. shooting conservative activist Charlie. Kirk in the neck, killing him. This. happened last September at Utah Valley. University where Kirk was hosting an. event for his organization Turning Point. USA. And now all this time later, months. later, we are finally getting a glimpse.

at some of the evidence against Robinson. as part of a dayslong preliminary. hearing. And this is where the judge. will decide whether there is enough. there, whether there is sufficient. evidence, whether there is probable. cause to support the charges to take. Robinson to trial. because prosecutors. have announced that he will face the. death penalty if he's convicted. And. simultaneously, there is something else. happening that I want to keep a careful. eye on. Transparency is enough being. shown to the media, to the public to.

dispel all of those conspiracy theories. out there about who killed Charlie Kirk. You know exactly what I'm talking about, what you're seeing online. Now, in a. minute, I'm going to bring on attorney. Rich Showenstein. is going to help me. break down some of the biggest moments. from this prelim. But I got to quickly. get you caught up on how we even got. here. Okay, so Charlie Kirk was sitting. underneath this white TPUA tent on. September 10th, 2025 in a large open. area of the Utah Valley campus in OR. Thousands of people had gathered to hear. him debate people in the crowd about,

you know, politics, social issues. But. during one of those questions, a gunshot. rang out. Gunshot hit Kirk, sparked. pandemonium. You know the videos. I'm. sure you've seen them. He was rushed to. a hospital. He didn't survive. He left. behind his wife, Erica Kirk, and two. children. In the panic after that shot. rang out, officers and security. personnel, they clamored to figure out. where this shot had come from, if anyone. else was injured, whether the shooter.

was still on the campus. And during this. week's preliminary hearing, a former. Utah Valley University police officer, Christopher Badley, testified about what. he saw. Um, on that day, I uh observed. Charlie going back doing some meet and. greet with some people, getting some. photos taken. Uh, he then came. underneath the Hall of Flags and went to. his tent and he was there as answering. questions and talking to individuals. that would ask him questions. >> The tent you're referring to, is that.

the tent that we see when it was set up. in the courtyard? >> Yeah, that Y square tent, >> the white top. >> Yes, you remember that. Fast forward to about about 12:20 or so. So, a little bit after noon, the noon. hour. Uh, what happened? What did you. see and what did you hear? I heard an. individual talking to Charlie and I. happened to kind of glance over the edge. of the railing about that time. Um, I. could see the right side of Charlie's. shoulder. So, not his whole body cuz I. had the he was underneath the tent. So,

I could only see probably the right side. of his body. Um, he was answering a. question. kid asked him a question and. then I heard a shot fired. >> Do you know what time that was? >> Uh, yes. >> What time was that? >> 12:23. >> What did you see. >> at that moment? I saw him lean to the. left. So I. >> When you say him, you. >> Charlie. >> Charlie. >> Charlie. So I saw him go to the left. because I could no longer see the right. side of his body. So he went further. underneath the tent to the north side of.

the tent. So left. >> Okay. [clears throat]. Um can you describe the reaction of. others that were there? >> Uh yeah. So then um everybody started. getting up and starting to run uh in. more of a chaos kind of situation. Um at. that moment I recognized it as gunfire. I uh I left my post which was right. there on the south end of the hall. flags. I went I proceeded to between. right where the fugal and the hall flags. meet. There's some outside stairs that I. was starting to run down. As I was. trying to get down to the bottom of the.

stairs, people are running up. People. are laying down on the steps. I'm trying. to jump over people to get to the bottom. of the stairs so I can help uh stop an. individual that was probably shooting. >> Um. what happened next? >> Um by the time I got to the bottom of. the stairs, we I was informed on the. radio that we had a shooter in custody. So I thought at that moment I was like, "Oh, that was kind of fast." Obviously. it was close range probably because we. had an individual in custody. Another. officer came on said we had an. individual in custody. So, I decided to.

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soon released. And officer Baggley. testified that when he went to the top. of this building overlooking the. amphitheater, he realized the shooting. may have actually been the work of a. sniper. To me, when I when I got up. there and I could see this disturbance. in gravel, um to me it looks like a a. sniper pad, a person that has been. laying in a prone position and you've. got markings of elbows, knees, and feet. to where somebody was in the line of. sight of where Charlie's tent was. Then.

I realized that we probably didn't have. our shooter in custody from that moment. Um I asked dispatch to get on the camera. system and to see if anybody was on top. of the Losi building during the time of. the incident. Now, like at a trial, this. is one of the advantages of a. preliminary hearing as opposed to, you. know, a grand jury, uh, which can. indict, the defense has the opportunity. to question to cross-examine the. prosecution's witnesses. And one of. Robinson's defense attorneys asked. questioned Officer Bagley about the. department's preparedness leading up to.

the turning point event. And do you know. how many uh UVU. officers you guys employ normally. >> employ? There was 15. >> And do you know how many were assigned. to cover that event that day? >> Uh that were assigned to cover it. There. was six of us that were there was patrol. one and then five others. >> that were there with the chief. >> Did you all have an idea there were. going to be thousands and thousands of. people there? Was that a surprise to. you? uh had a had a an idea.

>> and you only had five officers. >> Six. Yes. >> Six. I'm sorry. I'm counting you. I was. thinking. >> Um and of those six officers, were are. you all armed? Do you carry weapons? >> Yes. >> What type of weapons do you carry? >> Glock. Pistols. >> Okay. And was there any use on campus of I. think they're called magnetometers, but. um.

the machines you walk through at TSA on. the airport where it checks to see if. you're carrying any anything metal, what. we all had to go through to get in the. courtroom. Were there any machines like. that set up or being used on campus that. day? >> No. And as far as you know, were there any. drones that were flying above campus. that day? >> Not that I know of. >> And did anyone ever talk to you about. covering anything near or on top of or. in the low sea building? Were you ever.

signed that area before the shooting? >> No. >> Do you know who was? >> I don't. And when you got up to the roof that. afternoon, [clears throat] was anybody around? That. was law enforcement. >> No. >> Nobody on the roof? >> No. >> Nobody on the stairway? >> Nope. >> Nobody on the walkway? >> Nope. >> Okay. And in the state of Utah, are is a.

campus a gun-free zone? Are students. allowed to have guns on campus? It's an. open carry state. So, yes. >> And did you see anybody that was armed. that day other than law enforcement? >> I did not see. [clears throat]. >> Were you aware of whether Mr. Kirk had. his own security team present there with.

him? >> Yes. Did you communicate with any of. those people? >> I saw one individual that was on top of. the hall flags right next to me. Yes. >> Okay. And that was before the shooting. >> Yes. And then I saw several down in the. crowds and down by him. Yes. >> And were you aware of whether that. person was armed either? >> I was aware he was armed. >> Okay. >> Makes me wonder, are they going to say. it was such a chaotic event? Do we. really know what was going on? In the. hours after the shooting, law. enforcement allegedly found this. boltaction hunting rifle wrapped in a.

towel in a wooded area as well as these. cartridge cases that were reportedly. engraved with words that were connected. to memes in pop culture. Very, very. specific. And the FBI announced that it. was using facial recognition to try to. track down the shooter. But when that. proved to be unsuccessful, investigators. then released surveillance photos of a. person that they now claim is Tyler. Robinson. And in around 36 hours after. Kirk was killed, Robinson reportedly.

turned himself in. He was indicted on. seven counts, the most serious of which. is aggravated murder. Several of the. counts also have aggravating factors. attached, like alleged targeting and. committing a violent offense in the. presence of a child. Now, importantly, Robinson has not entered a plea. Okay. So, to talk about some of the biggest. moments of the preliminary hearing um. and what we can expect next, I want to. bring on litigator Rich Showenstein. Good friend of the show, good friend of. mine. Rich, I'm so happy to have you on.

because there's so many things I want to. talk about. Um, you know, it's not just. I I mentioned that at the stop, not just. if there's going to be enough evidence. for this case to move forward towards. trial, but also has enough been shown to. quiet dispel the conspiracy theories out. there because there have been a lot of. issues, particularly brought up by. Charlie Kirk's family, Erica Kirk, about. transparency. So, first I just want to. go into this where we sit right now. We're recording this Friday morning. There isn't a decision uh from the judge. yet. Um, I believe there's even more. testimony that's going to happen. But. having said it, if you were sitting.

right now, do you think the prosecution. has presented sufficient evidence at. this point for the case to move forward. towards trial? >> Yes. No doubt. I have I have no doubt on. that. I think 100% this case is going to. trial. >> What stands out to you? What are the. pieces of evidence that you say, "My. gosh, I mean, there is sufficient. probable cause to support these. charges." multiple alleged confessions.

>> Those are the ones. >> tracking of his tracking of his. whereabouts in a manner that seems. consistent with him having uh been in. the been in the area. Uh some DNA. evidence, but really multiple alleged. confessions would get you probable. cause. >> And I want to get to that in a minute. when we talk about Lance Twigs. But the. DNA I find to be fascinating. You know, they talk about how the there is DNA. linking him on the towel on the trigger. of the boltaction rifle, right? The CA. potentially the casings. Now, you hear.

the defense fighting back about that. They say, "Well, wait a minute. You. know, it's not how do it's not. definitively him. Could it be touch. DNA?" They may have something to say, "Well, why is Lance Twig's DNA also on. the towel?" you're getting a semblance. also of what the defense may argue if. this goes to trial, right? What do you. make of those counterarguments regarding. the DNA? >> So, I think those are good arguments at. trial. If this was a DNA only case, I.

think it might be a bit of an uphill. battle. I think the defense would be in. it at trial. I still think there'd be. probable cause, but I think the defense. could have something to say about that. and cast enough reasonable doubt that. the DNA gets you there to sort of deal. with that part of the case. But then. there's the rest of the evidence. >> Yeah, there's the rest of the evidence. And again, just something to make clear, this is a much lower standard. This is a. much lower standard by which the court. has to find is there sufficient probable.

cause to move forward. It's not beyond. the reasonable doubt. It's much much. lower. Um, and I want to ask you one. other thing that I thought was. interesting. The bullet casings that. were apparently found at this crime. scene had engravings. And these were. specific messages and they have linked. it or potentially linked it to this. Dremel tool that was apparently found at. Tyler Robinson's home. It had um they. also apparently found the same kind of. ammunition at the shooting scene in his. home. I actually spoke to Joseph Scott.

Morgan about that. And he thinks that. there's going to be a specific expert to. match the engravings to handwriting, which I think is really interesting. But. that's something I don't even know if. it's getting them much attention, right? The engravings on the casings on top of, like you said, the surveillance, the. DNA, the potential confessions. I. thought that was interesting, too. >> It is interesting. and it's not quite it. doesn't have quite the oomph of the. confession or the DNA evidence, so it. doesn't get the same attention, but. certainly the the circumstantial.

evidence, if you just look at it as. circumstantial evidence, there were. engravings on the casings and then you. found in his apartment similar casings. and engraving equipment. That. circumstantial evidence that coupled. with some other evidence could get you. to probable cause. Now, if Joseph Scott. Morgan, who you and I both know and. trust is right about the evidence at. trial, maybe they can match that up even. more clearly and that would help meet. the burden of proof at trial. >> One of the big points of conversation.

from this past week is because we kind. of knew what the evidence was going to. be, but now we're seeing it in a. preliminary hearing was is the defense. really gonna is, you know, Tyler. Robinson going to want to take this to. trial, right? Like you're starting. starting to see what the defense's. arguments are. my opinion, it's like, "Oh, it was a chaotic scene. How do you. know he's definitively the shooter? They. arrested someone else at one point. The. surveillance footage looks a little. grainy. DNA is questionable." Arguments, arguments to make a trial, but are they. looking at this and are they going to.

have an honest conversation with Tyler. Robinson, listen, your best bet right. now, you plead guilty, we try to take. the death penalty off the table. Is that. what you think is going to happen after. and I don't know when the judge will. come back with the decision on uh if. this goes forward to trial. It might. actually take a little bit because I. think there's a briefing schedule too. But what do you think? >> Yeah, I think they're doing briefing and. argument in September. So, you're not. going to get a decision probably till. October. I think there's a pretty good. chance there'll be a plea negotiation. We've talked about this before. There's.

always a plea negotiation. And the. question to me is, are the prosecutors. willing to take the death penalty off. the table in exchange for a guilty plea? >> You think they are? You think they would. in this case? >> I I don't know because this case is so. politically charged. There's that whole. element of it that takes it out of the. ordinary in a case like this. This is a. single murder case by a young person. So. to me, it is the kind of case where you.

would take the death penalty off the. table if you could get a guilty plea and. a life prison sentence. That would seem. to me to be a fair exchange. It would. save you the cost and burden and risk of. a trial. It would save the family from. having to go through all of that again. It would get finality. It would get. inadequate punishment. So to and I'm not. a death penalty person anyway. I don't. love the death penalty anyway. So, I'm a. little bit jaded by that, but to me,

that would be a fair exchange. I just. don't know because of the circumstances. of this case, because of everything. behind the scenes if that's something. the prosecutors are willing to do. If. they say no, we're going to ask the jury. for the death penalty, then I don't. think his defense team has any choice. but to try to defend. >> Yeah. And look, couple things that I. think about that. one, as much as they're as much as this um. you know, what happened to Charlie Kirk. is absolutely heinous and you can.

understand why prosecutors want to throw. the book at who they believe did this. You know, sparing the family from the. pain of this. Look, even this four or. five day preliminary hearing has been. incredibly difficult for the family. The. judge winced when seeing the shooting of. Charlie Kirk. You want to put jurors. through that and have to see all that. again? It's it's it's a consideration. Now, even if this goes forward to trial. and even if you get a death qualified. jury, it doesn't necessarily mean they. would vote in favor of the death. penalty. I always look at the the you.

know, the Parkland school shooter case. That was a jury with evidence was really. bad and they still said, you know, life. in prison. But I do want to talk about. arguably one of the most impactful parts. of this whole hearing. Thursday, the. court, the judge saw this recorded. deposition of Lance Twigs. This is. Robinson's romantic partner. Now, Twigs. reportedly confirmed to officials that. he sometimes went by the name Luna with. certain friends and associates, including Robinson. And the Utah State. Bureau of Investigation agent, Brian. Davis, testified about these two.

interviews that Twigs did with. officials. Take a look. >> Are you familiar with an individual. named Lance Twigs? >> Yes, I am. >> And who is he in in regards to this. investigation? He's the roommate of. Tyler Robinson. >> Was he interviewed as part of this. investigation? >> He was. >> How many times? >> Two times. >> When was the first time? >> The first time was the early morning.

hours of September 12th. And that. occurred at St. George Police. Department. >> Do you know if his phone was taken from. him? >> It was. >> When did that happen? >> So, it was during that interview with. FBI at St. Georgia Police Department. They conducted an interview of him um. and then he provided his phone. He did. it voluntarily also. Uh provided it um. to to those agents. >> and that would have been on September. 12th, 2025. >> Uh correct. >> You mentioned a second interview of Mr.

Twix. Okay. So, for any statements made. during the interview, they're given. immunity for that, but they're not. generally prohibited from being uh. potentially prosecuted outside of that. interview. Is that fair? That's my. understanding. Yes. >> Was Mr. Twigs given use immunity? >> Yes, he was. >> The April 20th, 2026 interview was being. taken in lie of him having to come and. testify at the preliminary hearing.

>> Yes, he was. Yes, he was. >> And there was a lot of back and forth. about whether this deposition video. would even be played, whether parts of. it would be cut out, redacted. And in. fact, members of Charlie Kirk's family. specifically requested that the full. interview be shown in open court. They. were represented by their own attorney. in this case, but Judge Tony Graph ruled. against that motion. >> I've been very hesitant to speak up at. these proceedings. We understand it's. the state, the defense, and the judge. You're all doing your job. Uh but I feel.

as if we need to. I want to be clear as. to what the Kirk's family's position is. on all of this. The Kirk family believes. strongly that if the evidence is being. admitted in this preliminary hearing, it. should be made public for the world to. see. No redactions. This court has tools. at its exposure, tools at its disposal. to make sure the defendant receives a. fair trial. You'll use them if you find. that you need to. That's it, your honor. to not be transparent here, to not be.

open, to not let the world see what. happened will create doubt and distrust. in the judicial system. And that's not. what anybody wants. That's not what any. of us believe should happen here. And. we'd ask the court to consider the. position of the family in making its. ultimate decision. part of the reason in responding to the. media and it's an important point and to. uh the representative for um victim. representative Erica Kirk is I recognize.

the importance of transparency and it is. a fine line. I'm balancing all these. competing rules, constitutional rights. as well as transparency. And sometimes. it is an an imperfect balancing act. But. I'm trying to act in the interest of. justice in making this balancing act and. for transparency to actually be. transparent. >> So the judge determined yes, the. interview would be played, but some. redactions. Rich, go back to my my other.

point. This case, this preliminary. hearing is not just about is there. enough evidence to go forward towards. trial. It is also about, and I have to. wonder if there's a court considering. this, how do you balance the. constitutional rights of the defendant. to a fair trial? Don't put too much out. there that would, you know, affect the. potential jury pool, but at the same. time, there are so many conspiracy. theories out there. There is so much. chatter. There is so much misinformation. from uh, you know, uh, Tyler Robinson.

Yes, he's innocent unless proven guilty, but they say, "Oh, he's a fall guy. He's. a pathy. This is a this was the work of. a foreign government or entity." Um, has. there been enough put So, two parts to. my question. One, what do you make of. this decision by the judge to in in. showing the Lance Twigs video? And two, do you feel from everything you've seen. so far that enough has been shown to. potentially dispel the conspiracy. theories out there? Those.

are both great questions. So, let's. start with the first one. I I was a. little surprised. This Lance Twig. interview was much more substantive than. I thought it was going to be. I thought. the purpose of this was going to be to. authenticate text messages where Tyler. Robinson allegedly confessed to the. crime. But this was substantive. This. was about their relationship. This was. about what did Tyler Robinson do this. day? This was about him allegedly. confessing. It was a very substantive.

testimony. And of course, at trial, you could never. present it like that. You could never. show a video of a witness testifying. You have to bring him in, right, and put. him on the stand, and he has to be. subject to cross-examination. And that's. what the defense said here. The defense. said, "If they want to put Lance Twig on. the stand, they ought to bring him in. and put him on the stand." And the judge. said, "No, it's only a preliminary. hearing. we're only establishing. probable cause. They can do it this way.

And I was a little uncomfortable with. that because, you know, every headline. this morning says Tyler Robinson. confessed to murder. That's what that's. what the New York Times, everybody else, those are the headlines. Now, this was. the defense's point. You let the guy go. on the stand by pre-recorded video. testimony, not subject to. cross-examination. And now it's been picked up by the world. and treated as if it is,

you know, solid evidence. We didn't even. have a chance to cross-examine the guy. >> Well, well, I mean, well, I'll also push. back because I remember the screenshots. from the video of the phone, right, where he's showing the phone of the. conversation that he purportedly had. with Tyler Robinson. And in those. messages, Tyler Robinson is allegedly. confessing. So even despite what he. testified to, despite what he said in. that interview, and I'm going to play a. bit a bit of it right now, you can look. at this and say that's the confession.

That's the confession, the text. messages. >> Yeah. I think there I think that what. the prosecution is going to argue here. is he confessed multiple times in. multiple ways. And and that's what is. really going to uh buttress the the. confessions. This is not just some off. comment he made, right? This is. something repeatedly. In fact, in the. exchange he has on Discord, he's like, "No, guys, it really was me. >> I'm sorry. >> He's arguing with them.". >> Like even when it was like a. conversation like this, you're joking, right? This is it. No, I I did it. I'm.

sorry. Tell you what, Rich, put that to. the side about the conspiracy theories. because I just want to play a little of. his test Lance's testimony. And let's. just keep this question in mind about it. whether enough has been shown to dispel. potential conspiracy theories. So, this. is some of what Tigs had to say in that. recorded interview. Take a listen. Do you know Tyler Robinson? >> Yes, I do. Or Yeah, I do. >> And this is the same Tyler Robinson. that's been charged with the shooting of. Charlie Kirk? >> Yes. >> And would you say when you first met uh.

Tyler? >> I think it was 2023. I've known him. longer than that though. That was I. think the first time I met him in. person. >> Okay. Um, and will you describe your relationship. with with Tyler uh when you first met. him? Anyway, >> um, when I first met him, I didn't know. him super well. He was just a new. roommate. So,

I knew he knew my friend group and I. knew he liked playing games, but that. that's about it when we first uh like. when he first moved in. >> Okay. And then um at some point uh your. relationship progressed to something. more than just three roommates. Is that. right? >> Mhm. >> When was that? >> Um I think we started dating 2 or 3. months after you moved in. >> Okay. What time did you get up on. September 10th? >> Probably like 12 to 1:00 p.m. >> You didn't have to work that day?

>> Uh no. >> And did you hear from Tyler? Did he call. or text you before then? >> Uh no. He sent that message in the group. chat I mentioned, but he didn't message. me directly at all that day. >> Okay. When did you first hear from him? On September 10th. >> Uh, it was at 11:00 with that like. automated message. >> Okay. 11 p.m. >> Yeah. >> He asks you here, remember how I was. engraving bullets? Was he engraving. bullets before this? >> Uh, yeah. I don't remember exactly when,

but uh he had said he was planning to go. hunting with his family. Um, and he. asked me for a if we had like a Dremel. to because he said he wanted to create. messages on bullets. Um, and I just told him where Dremel was. and. I told him to make sure he doesn't like. set off a bullet on accident in the. house. Um, but I didn't really think. about it until then. >> How long before um September 10th was. this that you he asked about the Dremel?

I I don't remember cuz he'd been talking. about the uh hunting/camping. trip for a couple months, but I I don't remember when he was. specifically asking to in engrave the. bullets. >> When did you first see him? On September. 11th. So, this is the day after the. shoot. >> Yeah, I saw him when I woke up. Um like. I said, he was like up and around doing. a lot of stuff around the house. Um,

and then I uh I think I saw him after. that message where I said I'll come home. and say I'm doing laundry because I. didn't want him going to my parents. house right then when he said there was. probably cops outside. So I went back. home and it was just him there and I. said bye to him and then he drove off. So I just went back to my parents house. >> So he acted erratically. Um, was he. pacing? Was he just sitting down,

relaxing? >> No, he was he was uh walking around a. lot. >> And that's within the home. >> Um, and did he talk about what he had done? >> Uh, didn't go into detail. He just I. just asked him in person if what he said. was true the night before, and he said. it was. I started crying a little bit. and said he wishes he hadn't done it. and then kept going around and.

just doing stuff I think to keep himself. busy or distracted or something. Okay. Did he talk about what he was going to. do next? >> Then eventually said that he would talk. to his parents or turn himself over. >> Okay. And uh when you left, was that how. you you left understanding that he was. going to turn himself in or go to his. parents house? >> Yeah. And I didn't really want to be at. our apartment while any of that was. happening regardless of what went down. >> Um.

>> did you and he ever talk about politics? >> Um he did more than me. I. I didn't really still don't really keep. up with politics very much. Uh he'd usually talk about stuff he. heard on the radio on his drive to work. in like their work car since it sounds. like their whole crew went in the same. car most of the time. But uh I wouldn't. say super consistently because it wasn't. a topic I really contributed much on.

>> About Charlie Kirk? Did you ever talk. about Charlie Kirk? >> I I personally had never heard him talk. about Charlie Kirk before specifically. >> Okay. Um, how about um. political issues? So, did you ever talk. about gender identity issues and LGBTQ. rights? >> Uh, no, not not really. Um, uh, usually if he did talk about. politics stuff, it was uh relating to. Trump or current like policies being uh.

like issued or voted voted on. Now, according to a report from Fox News, Twigs was at one point under FBI. protection and he has since left the. state of Utah. Okay, give you an idea. He was also granted, by the way, use. immunity, Rich. So, use immunity. He. can't be prosecuted for what he said in. that interview. I guess he needed to be. granted that or protected in that way. because there was a period of time when. he didn't come forward, right, with.

information once he got it. >> Yeah, he could take the fifth. he could. take the fifth and not say anything. So. they gave him use immunity so that he. they can't use the testimony he gave, but he hasn't been given transactional. immunity. I do get the sense that the. authorities don't view him as having. been a co-conspirator or as having aided. and emedded or as having culpability. here because of the way that they've. treated this entire thing. So they.

allowed this video to be played. it was. played in open court and then you had. sort of the strange interplay where the. judge is saying some parts of it have to. remain under seal and the victim's. family is saying no we want to see the. whole thing and I understand their. feelings in that regard and I understand. this is an extremely difficult situation. for them but that's not who really gets. to make the decisions about what. evidence is shown at trial on what is.

it? >> I I have to tell you, I don't think I've. ever seen, and I'm not saying wrong or. right, I just don't think I've ever. actually seen a victim's families at. like have an attorney go in court and. make the argument, show everything, show. everything to the media, show everything. to the world. Doesn't I mean, that says. something about what they're going. through. It says something about this. case that they needed to do that. We. were saying a few minutes ago that one. of the benefits of a plea deal would be.

to spare the victim's family going. through a trial, but they seem to want. it all out there in the open. >> when maybe maybe they wanted the trial, uh, you know, which which is different. than some. But so I'll focus for a. second on your ultimate question, which. is, is this enough to dispel conspiracy. theories? And my answer is going to be no because. conspiracy theories sell. So there's. going to be some joker on the internet. who says what really happened is Charlie.

Kirk was attacked in the basement by a. dog and it's all a conspiracy to set up. this guy. There's going to be people who. still say the investigation wasn't. thorough enough. There had to be other. people involved. There are still going. to be people out there pushing those. narratives. >> 100%. But those who try to be credible, those who say, "I I'm looking at this. every day here. XYZ, I think they're the.

things missing from what I'm seeing so. far or points to an alternative suspect. or points to him uh uh falsely. confessing." Going back to this, agent. Davis read through these purported text. messages between Twigs and Robinson. after the shooting. And according to Fox. News, by the way, Erica Kirk could be. heard crying in the gallery. Let me play. that. >> If you could start, if you could read. a little more than halfway down. where it begins, Wednesday 11 p.m. Will.

you start reading underneath that? >> Yes. Um, so this would have been uh from. from Tyler says, "Drop what you're. doing. Look under your keyboard.". >> And I I apologize. Let me stop you. there. How do you know that this that. message would have been from Tyler. Robinson? >> Uh that's just so any of the messages in. gray would be from Tyler and message in. blue would be from uh from Lance. It's. just way the iPhone. distinguishes the messages. And also. Lance, Lance in his interview also. acknowledges that um who was saying.

what. >> And up at the top, who do we see that. this thread is is between? >> Uh Tyler. >> All right. Sorry to interrupt you. Uh so. so read that again starting from look. under the keyboard. >> Uh so so. uh after that then Lance responds. He. says what? And then he says you're. joking, right? And then Tyler says I. tried to delete that. >> We could scroll down to page two.

and if you can continue reading. along. >> Okay. Uh, and Tyler says, "I'm still. okay, my love, but I'm stuck in Orm for. a little while longer yet. Shouldn't be. long until I can come home, but got to. grab my rifle still." To be honest, I. had hoped to keep this secret till I. died of old age. I am sorry to involve. you. And then Lance replies, "You weren't the. one who did it, right?" And Tyler says,

"I am. I'm sorry." Lance says, "I. thought they caught the person.". And then Tyler says, "No, they grabbed. some crazy old dude, then interrogated. someone in similar clothing. I had. planned to grab my rifle from the drop. point shortly after, but most of that. side got side of town got locked down. It's quiet almost enough to get out, but. there's one vehicle lingering.". >> We could scroll down to page three, continue reading. >> Uh, Lance says, "Why?" And Tyler says,

"Why did I do it?" And Lance says, "Yeah. Tyler says, "I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out. If. I'm able to gra to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to. attempt to retrieve it again. Hopefully, they have moved on. I haven't seen. anything in the news about them finding. it. We'll update you shortly or Charlie. We'll update you by midnight." And then. Lance says, "All right, stay safe. How.

long have you been planning this?". >> Scroll down a little bit, please, Kimberly. And Tyler replies, "A bit over a week, I. believe. I can get close to it, but. there is a squad car parked right by it. I think they already swept that spot, but I don't want to chance it.". >> We can scroll down to page four and. continue. reading uh about halfway down. I'll I'll. stop you about halfway down. >> Uh this is while they were spot, but I. don't want to chance it. While they were.

parked there. If they had found it, I. imagine there would be more commotion. Again, I'm sorry for roping you into all. of this. You shouldn't have to worry. about this. And Lance replies, "Does anyone else. know?" Tyler says, "Not to my. knowledge.". >> All right, I'll stop it there. >> Okay, so Lance says, "Was your change of. clothes there or was that also gone or. did you bring those with you originally? Anyway, you could replace the gun or. would he notice?".

Then Tyler says, "Only thing I left was. the rifle wrapped in a towel. I'll bet. that K9 sniffed it out. Uh, little. snitching. We replace it. Unlikely. I. don't fully know what the gun was cuz it. was old and Gramps did some modifying. There was a four-digit serial serial on. it. God only knows who it's registered. to. Hopefully some dead guy who gave it. to grandpa.". And he continues, "Remember how I was. engraving bullets? The messages are.

mostly a big meme. If I see notices, uh, Bulge UW on Fox News, I might have a. stroke. >> And then continue. I'll I'll stop you in. a moment. >> Says, "All right, I'm going to have to. leave it. That really sucks.". >> Let me stop you there. And then if we. could go on to the next page, page nine. And do you see the the first blue. message we see on page nine? Uh, can you. start there? >> Yes. Uh, so Lance says, "Do you need it.

for hunting?" And Tyler says, "No, my. dad wanted to use it to use a high. caliber for the rifle hunt." Judging. from today, I say Graham's gun does just. fine IDK. I think that was a two a 2K. scope. Uh, Lance says, "Geez.". And then Tyler says, "OMW home, uh, 3.5. hours." Lance says, "Drive safe." And.

then Tyler says, "Delete this exchange.". >> And I'll stop you right there, >> Rich. Okay. Full picture here. You You. said, "Of course there'll be jokers who. capitalize it." Of course, 100%. But is. there anything from what you're seeing. that someone can make a legitimate, reasonable argument, wait a minute, there's something missing here? There's. something a little shady here. There's. something I'm not seeing here. There's. some I I think, you know, there's. evidence someone else did it. There's. someone else directing Robinson. He's. falsely confessing. He doesn't mean what.

he's purportedly saying. Again, I go, he's innocent unless proven guilty. But. tell me, you're looking at the evidence. like me. I tell you, the only thing that. gives me any sort of pause. would be some of the testimony from the. roommate. You know, I think he testified that they. never talked about Charlie Kirk, >> right? >> That seems odd given the theory of the. case.

>> or or LGBTQ rights. They never talked. about apparently, >> right? that. So that that sort of raised. an eyebrow, but other than that, I. didn't see anything. Those those Discord. chats back and forth don't point to. culpability of anybody else. And you. better believe the investigators have. been through those chats, you know, with. a fine tooth comb, uh, looking at. everything, looking at every person. involved. Uh, there's certainly no. evidence that his family was involved. There's no credible evidence I've seen.

of anybody else being involved. The only. question would be Lance Twix. >> Look, I the argument that I would make. for against that would be how many times. do we cover cases where somebody commits. a heinous crime came out of nowhere. This is somebody who never mentioned. anything, somebody who didn't have a. criminal history. Like, did anybody have. any idea that Brian Cobberger was going. to brutally kill four complete. strangers? Right? I mean, and it goes.

back, everybody's different. Uh, Gilgo, I mean, you know, this guy was living a. whole separate life. But I do want to. talk about something else. There was. this letter that was apparently found. underneath this keyboard. And Robinson. had allegedly taken a photo of that note. before it was eventually burned. And. while the letter itself wasn't shown to. the court, it was detailed in this. search warrant according to Utah outlet. KSL TV. And according to the warrant, the letter says, quote, "Luna, if you're.

reading this per my text, then I am so. sorry. I left the house this morning on. a mission and sent an auto text. I am. likely dead or facing a lengthy prison. sentence. I had the opportunity to take. out Charlie Kirk and I took it." Now, KSL TV also reports that Robinson. allegedly sent a message to this group. chat on the Discord app, which Rich and. I have been talking about reportedly. saying, "Hey guys, I have bad news for. you all. It was me at UVU yesterday. I'm. sorry for all this. I'm surrendering.

through a sheriff friend in a few. moments. Thanks for all the good times. and laughs. You've all been so amazing. Thank you all for everything." And after. sitting in court and seeing all the. evidence that one could argue is piling. up against him, now it becomes a. question. What is Robinson going to do? But I just go back to this. Um, you. know, I'm sure people out there would. make the argument, well, isn't it. convenient he's con, you know, confessing so thoroughly and so detailed. when he doesn't have to? But it also. doesn't strike me as odd that he would.

have done this, right? Seems like if I'm. listening to the prosecution's. narrative, very troubled person. Maybe. he was, you know, you listen to Lance. Twig's testimony, he was conflicted. after doing this, although he doesn't. appear to be showing much emotion uh in. court right now. But it wouldn't be so. strange that someone would take. ownership over doing something like this. and making a statement like this. It's. kind of guys Luigi Manion vibes again. He's innocent unless proven guilty, but. I wouldn't be surprised if he confessed.

No. >> Yeah, I could see it happening. I Right. It's It's hard. I can't ever wrap my. head around the thought process of. somebody who would commit a crime like. this. Why they would do it in the first. place? How they could do it? I don't. understand. >> So, when you get into the details of it. of, you know, would he leave a note like. that? Sure. Because I don't understand. what he's doing in the first place, he. could leave. The the thing about the.

note that stood out to me goes back to. what I was saying before. He says, "I. have an opportunity to take out Charlie. Kirk and I did it." And Twig says, "They. never talked about Charlie Kirk before.". That's what makes the note a little odd. to me. >> Yeah. >> Because then it just totally comes from. nowhere. Why are you taking out what? Why are you doing that? That's not. something we've ever discussed. That is. a little bit odd. But the whole thing, the whole crime, if it happened as.

alleged, is so disconnected from. anything that I can rationalize that I. can't imagine it happening that way. >> So, look, right now, we're recording. this um before the preliminary hearing. wraps up. It's supposed to wrap up. today, one more day of evidence, but. this decision from Judge Graph, it's. probably not going to come down right. away. There's more arguments, there's. briefing, as we talked about. Those are. scheduled for September. Uh we can get. an answer after that. But look, my legal. opinion, Rich's legal opinion, I I it.

seems this case is gonna move forward. towards trial. Does become a question. What does Robinson decide to do next? Rich Shoenstein, thank you so much. Really appreciate you taking the time. >> My pleasure. See you later. >> And that's all we have for you right now. here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so. much for joining us. And as always, please subscribe on YouTube, Apple. Podcast, Spotify, wherever you get your. podcasts. You can also check us out on. NBC's [music] Peacock as well. If you. want to follow me, ex Instagram, my. NewsNation show, Jesse Weber live, Monday through [music] Friday, 11 p.m. Eastern. See you next time, everybody.