5 Pieces of Forensic Evidence Haunting D4vd’s Murder Case

I'm bringing back [music] on forensic. death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. to go over the latest developments in. the David murder case. Issues involving. whether 14-year-old Celeste Davis. Hernandez [music] was ever pregnant. Was. she potentially killed in Santa Barbara? Is there evidence of a cleanup? What. will the defense do to [music] fight. back against maybe cause or manner of. death? And if so, a lot of questions. leading up [music] to a major hearing on. the horizon. Welcome to Sidebar. presented by Law & Crime. I'm Jesse. Weber.

Forensics, [music] analyzing the. science, the body, the crime scene. It. is the key to so many cases that we have. covered here and I think it is going to. play a massive role in the David case. But I want to better understand it. I. want to better understand how the. potential evidence may tie to the. singer. What answers are still missing? What is her autopsy, the alleged crime. scene, the evidence tell us or not tell. us? How is the defense going to be. fighting back on this? And I'm talking.

of course about the 21-year-old romantic. homicide singer charged with. first-degree murder, continuous sexual. abuse of a child under 14, and unlawful. mutilation of human remains all in. connection with the death of 14-year-old. Celeste Davis Hernandez, who was found. dead reportedly in David's Tesla at a. Hollywood tow yard back on September 8th. of last year. He's entered a not guilty. plea. He's innocent until proven guilty. There is a preliminary hearing scheduled. for May 26th, important day because that. is when the prosecution will present not. all the evidence, but what they will say. is sufficient evidence to support these.

charges to move forward with the case. But authorities say that David stabbed. Celeste to death at his property to keep. her quiet, that he lied in wait, that he. had this alleged illegal sexual. relationship with her, that she was a. minor, killed her because she was a. witness, that she was going to expose. him, did it for financial gain, prevent. her from tanking his career which was at. its peak. But again, I want to. understand the forensics. Okay, I want. to bring on Joseph Scott Morgan, forensic death investigator from. Jacksonville State University, host of. the Body Bags podcast. Hope everybody.

can check it out. Joseph Scott like the. best voice possible. I think in general. for the podcast realm, but also. particularly for that show. Thank you so. much for taking the time. You bet, my. friend. I did a really super short. opening so I could have a lot of time. with you because I have a lot of. questions. Um, I don't know if you and I even. talked about the medical examiner's. report of the autopsy here on Sidebar. A, you know, just general impressions. about that because I do wonder. It tells. us a lot, but then there's aspects of it.

I do wonder how do investigators, how do. authorities know this? So, for example, prosecutors say in their brief, "Defendant stabbed the victim to death. multiple times and stood by while she. bled out." How do they know that? You. know, how do they know that? And I also wonder specific-. specifically, if I'm correct, they don't. have the murder weapon. No, to the best of my knowledge, they. don't. And but back to. that earlier point, how do they know. that. he. stood there?

Because. look, I got to tell you, as an old. investigator, you know where I get that. kind of information from? It's not from. the perpetrator. To say someone stands. there and watches an individual bleed. out, that comes from a witness. And. that's the one thing that's left me. scratching my head over all of this. You. know, how? Because that is a huge leap. If you're talking about an investigated. descriptor, that is such a leap to make. that affirmative statement because I can. tell you when their feet are put to the.

fire relative to any kind of trial. that's going to come about, that. question is going to be asked and it is. going to have to be answered. You said. in the report right here that he stood. there while she bled out. So, unless. they have internal cameras that bore. witness to this, unless there was. something that was caught on a Tesla, you know, that that's the only other. path I can really go down relative to. that. Unless they're just assuming this. based on the idea of look, we we can say. multiple penetrating wounds, right? I.

believe that's what they said the Yeah. >> the. cause of death was and they're saying, we're we're putting two to get two. together, right? She allegedly came to. the house at this time. We know that he. allegedly sent a text to her phone 20. minutes later. We believe a sharp. instrument was used and so we are. saying, of course, he stabbed her and if. he stabbed her, of course he just waited. for her to bleed out because he. allegedly never called 911 or. authorities and so that's what they're. assuming, but you're saying in your. experience they shouldn't or wouldn't.

make that statement. There was no need. to make that statement unless they have. some sort of information. >> Yeah, man. It's just such a huge leap, you know, to go down that road. Um. for me and I. I'm going to tell you that that is going. to have to be revealed in court and you. know as well as anybody that you cannot. just kind of in some kind of pedestrian. manner, you know, just go by and say, "Yeah, well, this is what happened.". You're going to have to explain that. I. mean, cuz people are going to want to. know. This is arguably one of the most.

gruesome things that we've covered in. some time and I'm not saying it doesn't. matter what people think, but I think. that even court is going to want that. explained. If defense looks at this and. said, "How do How do they know that?". They can't just say, "Well, we just. know.". They're going to have to lay that down, the facts, right? >> Just like in forensic science, we like. to deal with the facts, we like to deal. with those absolutes. When you get. inside the courtroom, you have to state. the facts of the case and this is what. they're saying is a fact of the case.

So, I'm going to be fascinated to see. how this is explained because I don't. know, man. Inquiring minds want to know, right? This goes to another part and. correct me if I'm wrong and I talked to. Steve Fischer about this on my. NewsNation show. There There no cleaning supplies, right? There's no evidence that as far as I can. see in the filings that there was this. massive clean up and luminol and things. like that. And you're talking about a. very graphic alleged crime, a stabbing. and then dismemberment. >> So, the reason I'm [clears throat]. bringing this up is Steve has put.

forward this idea, a question about. whether or not this killing happened, this alleged killing, this alleged. murder happened in the house. That she. arrives 20 minutes later, he sends an. alibi text. So, this is from the. prosecution's filing and then I'll read. you what Steve said. "Despite knowing. she was dead and her family was trying. to find her, the evidence will show. defendant lied and claimed he didn't. know where she was. In fact, defendant. drove to Santa Barbara County. immediately after the victim died, attempting to dispose of her property.

and destroy evidence. At approximately. 11:30 p.m. on April 23rd, 2025, he drove. away from his home as he texted and. called the victim's phone asking where. she was. Again, these were acts. calculated and planned to set up his. defense within a very short timeline. after the victim's vicious murder. Defendant drove his Tesla north on the. 101 Freeway to San Marcos Pass Road, SR. 154, near Lake Cachuma in Santa Barbara. County. He returned home early the. following morning on April 24th, 2025. before going to a radio interview for. the release of his album that week. He. sent two additional texts to the. victim's phone that day, which obviously.

went unanswered because she was already. dead. After April 26th, 2025, defendant. never attempted to contact her again. May 8th, 2025, defendant returned to the. same area in Santa Barbara County, leaving his home at around 11:30 p.m. He. returned to the area again on May 31st, 2025. This is an isolated site off SR. 154 where the victim's identification. was subsequently discovered in January. 2026. Additionally, on July 7th, 2025, defendant ordered and subsequently. Amazon delivered a burn cage to his home. under the same fake name as part of his.

plan to incinerate evidence. Defendant's. cellular activity and communications. derived from defendant's phone and Tesla. demonstrate defendant's activities from. April 22nd to April 24th, including a a. to Santa Barbara in the middle of the. night after the victim arrived at his. Hollywood Hills home. Steve Fischer. posted, "Can't stop thinking about the. timeline of the murder of Celeste. Riveras Hernandez and put forward in the. pre-trial brief. Could the 10:30 p.m. where are you text messages actually be. real and not a staged alibi? Could. Celeste have walked away after an. argument upon arriving in the Uber? Maybe those texts from David asking.

where she was were real and after he. didn't receive a response, he went. looking for her, found her, and they. ended up driving to Santa Barbara County. where the killing actually occurred. He. could have shut her phone off when. finding her. In that scenario, her body. could have remained along SR 154 for the. roughly 12 days until the pool, body. bag, laundry bags, and chainsaws were. ordered and delivered. It is also worth. noting that the pool was ordered after. her death, meaning it would not have. contained blood from the actual killing. The DA's version of events is a very. compressed timeline. Arrival at 10:10. p.m., a fatal stabbing, and then being.

composed enough to send an alibi text by. 10:30 p.m. That is a 20-minute window. They also claim the trip to Santa. Barbara that evening was to start. disposing of evidence. However, the. evidence had not even been purchased. yet. The pool, chainsaw, shovel, and. other items had not even ordered at the. time of the first Santa Barbara trip. There's also the question of storing a. body at his manager Josh Marshall's. rental house for 12 days while waiting. for tools where nearby neighbors and. decomposition odors likely becoming. noticeable within a few days all while. David was out of town and having to.

trust that nobody would enter a house. that wasn't even leased to him. None of. this changes the central point that. David is responsible. He killed Celeste, that I am certain of. Like I said, the. DA is likely correct in their theory. They are working with all the evidence. #david #celesteriverashernandez. So, talk to me about that. I mean, in. the idea of. the compressed timeline, I haven't seen. evidence of this massive cleanup. Um, and it I do wonder, despite what the. prosecution's saying, do you believe. there's evidence enough evidence that. this killing, alleged killing, happened. in the house?

Uh, well, there was a sufficient amount. of time for there to been a cleanup. affected, okay? And here's the thing. that I can't get past with that and. uh I think Steve has done a fantastic. job. I've been on a number of platforms. with him, spoken with him extensively, because he's really been the only. insight that we've had, right? I mean, truly, from that perspective, because he. was eyes on and one of his big points. along the way is that he I think he I. can't remember if he Luminol'd or Blue. Star'd. He had made the statement to me,

the residents in those areas, and he can. get hit relative to anything that would. indicate that there was blood in the. garage. Again, we're going back to what. the authorities are stating here, in the. affirmative, that it took place in the. garage. Well, how do you know that? And [clears throat]. it brings me back to the thought of the. chainsaw. Um with a chainsaw.

from a utility. is very messy device to use, and it. creates a storm of things of evidentiary. value. So, where did all of that go? I. I've I've thought about was it the. backyard, perhaps? Not kind of thinking, you know, what's more reasonable that he. would go to Santa Barbara. And Santa. Barbara County, uh been there a couple. of times. Yeah, I mean, you can say that. it's right up the road, but is it really. up the road? And why would you go that. far? I don't understand that for to.

deposit evidence or any kind of ID and. things like this. I know I'm kind of. bouncing around, but the other bit of. evidence here is that why would you need. a pool? Are you going to go out there. and inflate a pool in order to. facilitate this? They also talk about in. the filings, they talk about that there. was bits of blue plastic that are. embedded into these injuries. You know, I can see that. I understand why there. would be, you know, a chainsaw moves at. 14,000, 15,000 RPM.

All right? So, it's going to chew. through just about anything. Not not. just, you know, human tissue, but if. you've got an underlying underlying. kitty pool, it's going to go through. that as well. And then the idea that it. would get embedded into the insoles and. into the injuries, it makes sense. I could see that. happening. Now, the criminalists. actually have those bits. It's not just it's that's not for the. forensic pathologist to. talk about tying things back relative to.

the forensics there. They have those. bits already. Matter of fact, there's criminalists at. the scene in in the car lot, they. actually had criminalists. um present. I think at autopsy, they. talk about at autopsy, those bits are. turned over. So, how how are you going to go about. explaining explaining that? You know, uh. what what's the utility of a kitty pool. out in some remote area? You know, why. not just do it on bare earth out there? Um and again, thinking as as a forensics.

guy, I'm trying to understand the utility of. all of this. It seems like you're really. going. using you in the in the universal sense. here. Um. you're really going a long way around. the barn here in order to facilitate, you know, the the killing and. dismemberment. Um so, I I honestly, I don't know. It's. it's it's baffling to me. Well, look, I. think the purchase history is quite.

damning for him. Look, he's innocent. until proven guilty, but the idea of. they can track the purchases and when he. allegedly made these purchases and what. the items were and when they arrived. And you know, if they're able to. allegedly track his movements and the. you know, Santa Barbara the cell phone. But I think the idea also, and I thought. this was significant, you know, the. filing says that he lied to friends, business associates, and others about. the strong smell of decay in and around. the home and the car. And TMZ published. this video and I don't know if it's. going to be a part of evidence, but I. thought it was significant that it was.

reportedly from July 4th, 2025 a live. stream. So it was a again few months. after the alleged murder and according. to a prosecutor brief that was only a. few weeks later, July 29th when quote. the surveillance video and other. evidence confirm defendant was the last. person to drive the vehicle on July. 29th, 2025 before he left Los Angeles on. a concert tour. Not entirely clear, maybe someone else could have picked up. the car. But anyway, in this clip David. appears to be with Neo Langston, appears. to be with someone named Sukana, and he. apologizes for the way his bathroom.

smells, says it was because he had gone. to the bathroom 2 hours earlier. I mean, could very well be it, but if. there was potentially this smell, um it does beg the question about, you. know, where what how that factors into. this case. What. >> [clears throat]. >> My question is this, all right. What. would be the purpose of even making that. statement? Is that statement that. that someone would actually make, you.

know, about I mean, I don't know, maybe. you feel comfortable around the crowd. that you're around. Um so if that if. that's the case, okay, good on him, you. know, he's trying to explain about odor. But. was Had he ever done that before? You. know, what And and also there is a gulf. of difference between a bathroom smell. and um the smell of a child decomposing.

Uh a gulf, all right. And so it is that. an attempt to explain this this odor. away? And think about it, Jesse, is that. smell. Um people think that they have smelled. bad things, all right, and it's I guess. you can scale that out any number of. ways. If you've never been around. decomposing remains, it's a smell that. that kind of haunts you, even me, you. know, at this stage of my life, I still. recall it instantaneously. It's. something you don't forget.

And it is completely different than a. smell that would emanate from a. bathroom. It was just an odd statement. I I actually heard I heard this video. and. um. um it it it seemed kind of out of place. for me. Uh. you know, and I. anybody could read anything they want to. into that. It was very bizarre. Um and again, we're taking a random. statement out of the air. We don't know. what other statements had been made at. that period of time. But TMZ chose that.

slice and they put it out there. Now, whether or not that would make it. into. um. into court, I don't know, but I can tell. you everybody that's contained in that. video, I think is subject to be. subpoenaed. Um you know, because if. that's what was being said, um they can. just be put on the stand and say, "Did. you ever smell a foul odor in that house. in any way?". Um you know, and ask that question over. and over and over again. I don't know.

how many times they would allow allow. that, you know, what witnesses there. are. I saw that there was a young lady. in that video. I don't know who she is. Sikora. >> Um and and then you've got the other. gentleman uh who's supposed to be the. personal assistant, which, you know, if. you watch him, you know, in that clip, he never cracks a smile. He just kind of. looks up like that. I think people use. that term the. the side eye essentially is what he did.

He was kind of. expressionless when that's said. It's. intriguing. I mean, it truly is. And the. timing of it. The timing of it, like in. that time frame, I think is interesting. as well. You know, Joseph, one of the. things. >> Very much so. One of the things we. didn't get a chance to talk about um and. I have a lot more I want to get into. Sure. The the the autopsy, right? I. mean, look, from a legal point of view, the significance of that in any case, you have to establish as an element of. the crime that someone was killed. And. so, the autopsy, you know, that you're. going to have the medical examiner. testify and talk about the cause of.

death, the manner of death. Talk to me. though about how what you read may. actually tie back to David. So, there's. the significance of the report. We were. all waiting for the report. It was. sealed for months and months and months. What is the thing that stood out to you. the most about it? And also, how do you. think it may potentially be used to. actually tie back? Yeah, let's break. that down in categories. Uh first off, we'll start with with, you know, the big. piece to this.

And that's going to be, uh I think, um. the most glaring thing, and they'll see. crime scene images of this, is the level of decomposition, how. advanced she was, okay? And you can talk. about that, which it's well stated in. the autopsy report. You can talk about. in what an advantage in advanced state. of decomposition she's in, and that's really going to assault the. senses of the jury here, okay? They also. talk about liquefaction, which is.

something we haven't really, you know, heard before. um in this case, um. how the remains are partially liquefied. And that's going to be a place where I. think the defense, I'm always thinking. about what the defense could do. Um they can step in and say, "Well, you're saying the body is partially. liquefied. How can you actually. identify, you know, these insults, these. injuries?" Well, they were able to. identify that um to to great degree. Um. and so, they'll.

part one is they're going to talk about. the status of her body. And also, how. the body uh is in multiple elements, and. it's bagged separately, uh which is something that's intriguing. I'd love to go back to the body bag and. and talk about that because that on an. aside, that's a fascinating element to. me. But let's make it through the rest of. these. Um. then you get you get down to the nature. of the cause of death. And they're. saying that this is a sharp force event.

Um. they didn't say, which is not unusual, I. don't think that they alluded to whether. this is a single edge or double edged uh. weapon. Um. assuming, which is. dangerous to do, is a single edged. weapon. Um and if our friends that are listening. will just understand where these. two insults are, I think that's. important for folks to understand. You. know, that. Jesse, you and I've. talked so many times uh over the past.

decade, you know, about multiple. injuries. And when you hear multiple, most of the time and how many times have. you and I talked about overkill, right? This doesn't fit in that category. They're talking about two lethal. injuries here. And I question the. lethality of one of these injuries. I. know specifically the other one is very. lethal. But let's start on the on the. left aspect where she uh. Celeste had sustained sharp force injury. in between her her ribs, all right? And.

that's what's called the intercostal. space. There's muscles, if you've ever. worked out, folks have ever worked out. and you've pulled an intercostal muscle, it's one of the most painful things you. can ever injure. It's that space between. your ribs and that is muscle. Well, it. passes through there and it doesn't. really affect the lung. Um. and it's hard to tell because she's in. such an advanced state. I don't know if. the lung was. uh collapsed as a result of natural. decompositional process or if it may.

have been collapsed, but they don't even. talk about, you know, that the that this. sharp instrument nicked the lung. What. they do talk about, and this is very. important from a forensic standpoint, is that that blade um. actually passes over the cortex, or the. outer the outer layer of the rib. Now, what can we draw from that? Well, you. can get a tool mark after off of that. And I'm hoping that they that they. retain that sample because the. pathologist goes into some.

uh some explanation about that that. piece of rib, all right? And that's. something that is commonly done in. forensics labs, where once that bit of. tissue, that rib, that bone is cleaned. up, it would go to a tool mark examiner, and they'll do a gross examination. That. means they're looking at with the. unaided eye. They'll put it on a. magnification scope, look at it there. Um and what they're going to look for is. any kind of specific impression that. goes that goes across that rib, and they.

can actually classify the the edge that. would have created that. Now, onto the. lethal injury. If folks will find the bottom of the. right aspect of your rib cage, your. liver is right there. So, you find your. the last rib on the right side, and. press in where the tissue is soft, that's your liver, all right? And you. got to get through the dome of the. diaphragm essentially right there, but. the liver is underlying this injury is, I think, and I'm just doing this off the. top of my head, so forgive me, I think.

it's 2 in approximately. uh approximately in depth, but it's. enough to nick the liver. When And this goes back to the earlier. statement we talked about with the. bleeding out, um the liver, next to the. brain, is the most vascular organ in the. body. I've had tons of liver injuries. over the course of my career, gunshot. wounds, stab wounds, motor vehicle. accidents. Um. and it is not a quick death. Just so everybody understands this. This. is not like a gunshot wound to the head,

or even a bludgeoning or even a. strangulation. Okay? So, if someone is stabbed in this area. in the liver, you don't die instantly. This would have. been. um a very protracted event if that's the. only injury that there was that had a. level of lethality. Now, did they miss. anything, and which is possible, >> [gasps]. >> um because of the level of. decomposition, okay? Right now, I'm not.

thinking so. So, that's that's an important part of. this, and this goes back to the. watching, doesn't it, Jessie? You know, we're you know, this is an observable. event. Uh watched her bleed out. And again, that's that's a very affirmative. statement, you know, that they're. making, and it it fits with for me, it. does, with this liver insult, because. that is uh a location. uh where it would take a protracted.

period of time to die. Right. You know, I go back to something that you said. before is, you know, they'll make. question, the defense may question, how. can you definitively determine cause of. death given the level of dismemberment. and decomposition? What do you What kind. of expert do you think the defense would. call to negate this? You know, they've. been very. >> They're going to have to have a forensic. pathologist. >> Yeah, and and how would that How would. that person dispute the official. findings? Because again, the defense. says he's not the cause of her death. There seems to be a dispute here. What.

room is there going to be for a forensic. expert to disagree with the official. >> I think that the one thing about it is. you're going to have to have a forensic. pathologist that has a very strong. background, most do, all right, in. decomposed bodies. But, you're going to. have to have a defense pathologist. that can at least insert. that seed for reasonable doubt. relative to the level of decomposition. I think that that's really the only. intellectual underpinning that you have. You know, if you're trying to make that.

argument that you guys do in court, right? Um that's where you're going to go. They're going to have to lean into the. decomposition. I know that sounds so. bizarre, but for me, there's so much. other evidence, digital evidence, circumstantial evidence, um. testimonial stuff that's going on, you. know, in addition to the physical. evidence that they have. This is a mountain. >> [clears throat]. >> I mean, it's a mountain. I I've seen, you know, cases with much less forensic.

evidence. um that have. not gone well for the defendant. Decomposition though is going to be the. big factor here, I think, and you're. going to hear a lot about it. I think. you're going to hear a lot um about. entomology in this case because this. goes back to I talked to Steve about. this, too. Um. the entomology element here is going to. be a a big part because. and for and forgive me, uh and and certainly our listeners, too. I don't I don't mean to be insulting or.

uh be ghastly here. Um. but with entomology, flies have a life. cycle, okay? And I can I promise you, dollars to. donuts, all right? Within that period of time that she. died, I'd say probably within. 5 hours, okay? You Flies are already aware. So, and there it begins, and flies. always find a way. There's nothing you. can do. >> [gasps]. >> to keep away flies, period, end of. paragraph. So, what they'll do is that they.

lay that that little clutch of eggs that. they all start off with, and that's. where this timeline begins to tick. because. uh. um. maggots and flies. both have cycles that they run through, and they're kind of set in stone, and. that goes to timing, right? So you can. have a body. where you will have multiple generations.

of fly The longer you go out, all right? And the longer there is viable tissue. for them to, you know, consume, you're going to have flies. And so what. they'll do is the entomologist, and I. hope they did this both at the car. Remember in that statement that was. released in that. um that earlier document dump, when they. opened the trunk, they observed insect. activity there in the trunk, okay? My. question is, are there any maggot husk or anything.

indicative of that body being placed. somewhere on that property? Okay, in the Hollywood Hills. I in. you know, uh with an entomologist, that's an easy lift for them because. they would go out and inspect that area. They would see the husk there there. That's going to be a big part to that as. well. You're also going to see tool mark. evidence. The pathologist makes note. They allude, and I'm paraphrasing here, they allude to kind of how cleanly these. marks were made. Pathologist can kind of.

testify to that, but you really want a. heavy hitter to come in in a tool mark. area. I'm just building up the team. >> they said multiple linear cuts when it. came to the pool, you know? They talked. about. >> Yeah, and and then we talked about the. dismembering of the body. You marry that. up with that, and these edges are very. clean, as clean as they can be. And so. that I've always felt as though when I. heard that and before I heard the. chainsaw that they used, you know, they. said this was a chainsaw. I knew that. this was going to have to be a.

mechanical. device that was that was utilized here. This is not, you know, going out to the. shed and grabbing your dad's, you know, old old carpenter saw. Well, there's one. more thing I want to get to with you, but the you know, the idea that you have. this then 20-year-old singer, murder her, by the tools, dismember her, and then seemingly, you know, all by. himself because no one else has been. implicated, no one else has been. arrested, no one else has been charged. It's just it's quite a thing to be. thinking about and it goes to this final.

point, pregnancy. So, this is a big. issue that's come up. And the reason. that this has come up is because in the. prosecution's pre-trial brief, they. wrote, "Text exchanges between the. victim and defendant contain references. to sex, pregnancy, abortion, and use of. the Plan B emergency contraceptive. There are also explicit photographs. documenting and corroborating their. sexual relationship. In November 2024, defendant and the victim broke up, although they continued to communicate. and text messages suggest they also. continued to have sexual relations." And. then just a few days ago, well, actually. now maybe a little bit longer, remember.

last week? >> Yeah, yeah. Her death certificate was. amended to suggest it was. [clears throat] unclear if she was. pregnant when she was killed. In other. words, it was changed from not pregnant. to unknown. Now, you and I spoke on my. NewsNation show, Jesse Weber LIVE, and. you believe, right? The idea is because. of the investigative findings, they have. no choice but to make it unknown, right? Because here's the thing, and we'll talk. more a little bit more about this about. what the autopsy report says, but if. prosecutors believe she was pregnant, I. have to imagine they would have included.

it in their filings because in you're. talking special circumstances. allegations, what better way to prove. that? What better way to prove motive, prove he silenced the witness, killed. her for financial gain, than if she were. pregnant? If she's pregnant with his. child, you would include that. You would. say this is definitive proof. I mean, how compelling would that be? They don't. include that. So, talk to me about what. what we're missing here because, you. know, if the report is now saying. unknown, and yet have you seen any. evidence to suggest that she was. pregnant? No, and as a matter of fact, I'm.

scrolling through the autopsy report. right now for me, and this is something. I'm so glad you asked me this, so thank. you because I am if I'm disappointed in. anything in this particular. uh case and with the autopsy and kind of. what's being explained and what's not. being explained. For my money, here's the troubling bit. When doctors, and I think probably even. attorneys, but specifically doctors,

when doctors do a dictation, okay, of. their reports, all right? Just follow. what I'm saying. Give me a little bit of. rope here. Just for sure. So, when. they're dictating, there are certain. things in law and medicine that. if you're going to cite something or if. you're going. and it's it's not necessarily. significant, but it is significant, they will say to the person that's on. the other end, if they're just taping. this, they'll say standard dictation. insert, standard dictation insert.

Jesse, my friend, if you'll go back and. you'll look at this autopsy, um as a matter of fact, if you wish, I. can actually read it for you right now. because I got to tell you, when I'm. seeing this, it looks like when it comes. to the part of the autopsy report, I. think. that they went with standard dictation. And this is this is how the header is. The header is female reproductive tract. Uterus present, not enlarged, without. intrametrial lesions and hemorrhage.

Ovaries, fallopian tubes appropriate for. age without lesions. Breast tissue. without lesions. Other reproductive. tract findings. That's what you're. giving me? We're talking about a case. where you got a child who has been. engaged in allegedly sexual congress. with a grown man. I think that one of. the big questions here, I need more. detailed information. You've been able. to do this assessment on the uterus and. say it's not enlarged, but that requires. a deeper dive. When you look at this.

document, there's no like, we have. dissected the uterus, we've gone through. layer by layer, and these are our. findings. Okay? It's just like pow, it's. just like it's striking, you know, when. you see it. I really hate if this is the. truth, because as it turns out, this is. going to be one of the big things that. this whole investigation, this whole. future trial, when and if it happens, it's going to come down to. Because as. you stated, this is motivation, right? >> Yeah. That's a central key. And granted,

I know we don't have to prove motive, but you if you're trying to understand. something, I find that section itself wanting. Well, it's important again to prove the. special circumstances. >> I mean, that is kind of the why. It's. right the law. >> You're on the money. It's the financial. gain. It's killing a witness. So, there. is an aspect of that they do have to. prove. Look, Joseph, I appreciate you. being so generous with your time. >> Sure. On this and laying all this out. Thank you so much. I really wanted to. have a discussion with you about this, cuz we didn't have a full in-depth. breakdown of this the way that it needs.

to be conducted. So, thank you so much. Good seeing you, my friend, and hope. everybody can check out Body Bags. Thank. you. And that's all we have for you. right now here on Sidebar. Everybody, thank you so much for joining us, and as. always, please subscribe on YouTube, [music] Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever. you should get your podcast. You can. also check us out on NBC's Peacock as. well. [music] If you want to follow me, X, Instagram, my NewsNation show, Jesse. Watters Primetime, Monday through. Friday, 11:00 p.m. [music] Eastern. See. you next time, everybody.

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