Khloé, Jen Atkin & the Stories You’ve Never Heard | Khloé In Wonder Land

They always say like your hair stylist. is like your therapist. What are you. looking at on this side of my face? >> Well, you have one piece of hair that's. driving me nuts. Can I just say this? >> Jen, I've known you for decades at this. point. You're so talented. How did you. even know you can do the things you do? >> I studied people. So, you don't have a. license and I've let you cut my hair. Have we never talked about this? You. guys were the first to ever ever ever. shut out your glam team because no one. would even acknowledge that this is like. hours and hours of a facade. I didn't. really drink until I was much older.

Then I discovered gay men. Is this too. short? Can you see my vagina? >> Jen was one of the people who lost her. home in the Palisades fire. >> You [music] offered for us to come and. stay at your house. >> Okay. Well, that was ridiculous of me. >> You were that worried about me. Find a. friend that can just dish it and take it. because it is just the best. How long is. this? >> As long if it's good. Peace begins with. me. Peace begins with me. I love you. >> Okay. I love you. >> That's it. >> Can I go home?

>> Yeah. >> Bye. [music]. >> I hate podcast. >> Okay, >> we're rolling. >> Oh, good. >> Sorry, but I'm so happy to be here. How. fun is this? >> No, I hate podcast, but I'm so happy to. be here. How fun is this? We get to be. together. >> Well, I'm so happy to have you on Chloe. and Wonderland. Chloe, this is what it. takes to see you. >> I know. Or drunken behavior on Saturday.

night. >> Should we just make this episode about. all the things that happened at your. mom's birthday party? >> We really should. So, just so for. context, I know this is going to air in. January, but we are taking this. We're. still drunk. Our my our mom my mom's. birthday our mom's birthday was 2 days. ago. She'll adopt you. So, we're both. older and we're still paying the price. of. >> I'm going to tell you I it was okay. It. was Saturday night. We're shooting this. on Monday. I slept 10 hours yesterday. I.

had to get an IV drip. It was a night of. all nights. But you know what? Her. >> Gatsby party was her 60th. >> and you were there. >> No, but do you remember that party? Do. you remember you at that party? >> Okay. Well, lucky. >> Do you remember you on stage? >> I was [ __ ] up at that party. The I. still love the video that's online where. me and Courtney are fighting over the. cave in the background of who was. singing Charlie Wilson and Kanye and. we're fighting in the background. >> No, you just went on stage and you were.

like trying to take the mic from Charlie. Wilson. It was a time. >> Well, I was very very drunk and that's. because I was in the hospital with Lamar. for like months and it was my first. >> staff infection time. >> Yeah, that was Thank you. Wow. A lot of. gems you're dropping. >> Yeah. No, no, no. It's been a life. Well, point is, Jen Atkin, I've known. you for decades at this point. I mean, years and years. And so, thank you for. gracing us with your presence on the. pod. >> So, the first time I worked with you was.

November 1st. >> No. >> Wasn't 12. >> November. How did you. >> I found the picture last night cuz I was. just reminiscing and I was trying to. remember like all the. >> Do you remember the first time I met. you? >> I do. You were just telling me how bad. your memory is. It was on an airplane. and you were going to Miami to do Kim's. hair for a Cosmo shoot and I was on the. plane traveling too. >> Yes. And you had your glam squad with. you, right? >> I don't remember. >> I remember being in business class and. being excited about it. But then I.

remember seeing you and I I just need. everybody to understand you weren't that. famous then. You were pseudo famous. >> Okay. >> Like I knew you when you were like. broke. >> Yeah, you did. >> But I met you on that People magazine. shoot that I forgot I did. Remember I. when you guys were the single ladies. >> when Oh my god I don't remember that. >> I did court. >> Oh you did court. I don't remember that. but I remember the single ladies shoot. Why. >> the Cosmo shoot? Okay. Mortifying. Can I. finish telling the story now? >> So the Cosmo shoot I was there to do Kim.

who I didn't know. >> Yeah. >> And I felt like I don't even know what. got me there. I don't even know if I was. like I was maybe doing Sophia Vagara at. the time. And so my agent was like, "There's this cosmo shoot. You have to. like go in and out." And then we met and. I just like loved you. And I really. didn't even know you, but I was like, "This [ __ ] is funny.". >> No, you and I together. >> And we connected. >> Yeah. We. >> And then you wrote me the sweetest note. Do you remember that? >> No, >> I have it. >> No, you don't. >> But you wrote me the sweetest note and.

you were like, "I'm doing this thing. called X Factor. I'm going to be like my. first hosting job and I would be so. honored." You said something very you. were so sweet. You really are putting it. on. >> I used to be I used to be so sweet. >> and then my life, you know, got ruined. >> Yeah, it did. [laughter]. Well, speaking of your life getting. ruined. No, I do I know you've told your. story about But I do think it's. interesting to people cuz you're from. Utah. Well, you're from Hawaii, but then. you are from Utah. Really? >> How did a Mormon girl from Utah end up.

in California doing the job that you do? Okay. So, I grew up [clears throat] very. religious, but my parents were kind of. cool. Like, we'd watched SNL and South. before No. Are you kidding me? No. I. didn't really drink until I was much. older. It's crazy. Like, I didn't drink. in high school. No one partied. It was. very like Aussie and Harriet like I. don't know. Little House in the Prairie. Like, we did not party. >> Not what your photos show. [laughter]. >> Well, then, >> okay. >> I discovered gay men.

>> Yeah. >> And drugs. No, I'm just kidding. Um, so. I grew up kind of conservative and we. were very like when I think about the. Mormon church, I left it at 19 to come. to LA with my best friend. But when I. think about it, it gave me such strong. morals. Like I really grew up doing. volunteer service. You're constantly. working on like yourself and your goals. and you're just trying to like put good. into the world. So I do appreciate that. part of it. And I left the church. I.

left like a boyfriend I supposed to get. married to. had $300 in a Honda Civic. catchback and came to LA with my best. friend. We slept on couches and I worked. at a salon just to kind of like I knew I. wanted to do something creative and I. really like in high school would cut my. own hair and cut my friends hair and I. just didn't even know it could like. actually be a career but I was like. that's the only thing I really know how. to do. And so I started out as a. receptionist, a salon manager weirdly. like Chris McMillan was like a really.

big deal. He had done like Jennifer. Anderson's haircut. He was like the. household name. >> Yeah. >> But there were no women for me to really. like look up to. Like Sally Hersburgger. >> had a really big career and I'd like. read about her in magazines. But I came. here in 2000. So oh my god, it's so long. ago. >> That's crazy. 20 almost 26 years ago. >> Like pre social media. You'd have to go. in magazine to like see what the cool. salons were to go to, right? So I would. do that and I would walk to those salons. and try to get a job and they were like, "You're such a loser. Get out of here.

>> People don't do that anymore. >> No. >> No. >> They'll call me a loser. Yeah, >> they do. >> But I really just wanted to learn about. the business of hair. And so I worked as. a manager. I saw all these amazing. creative stylists who Oh my god. And at. the time I got to like feed B. Midler's. meter and like Winona Ryder would come. in. would come in. >> I met Jessica Alba back then and I was. like just a kid. knew no one here and I. was like, if this is all I do, I'm done.

This is amazing and I'll go back to Utah. and just live with my parents. Um, and. then I realized like so many of these. creatives were not super responsible. with their money. That was the time of. like I don't know, LA was just bustling. and it was so fun to go out. >> And so I honestly growing up I never. like knew a Jewish person. I never knew. like a black person. I never knew a gay. person. It was very very like. >> shock little bubble. >> So when I came to LA, I was like, "Oh my. god, I learned so much about just people.

and cultures and and art and music and. like I really feel like I got to like. wake up and was like in my own skin. finally. Like I got to just like lose. the judgment of other people and just. really like dive into LA. It's gone by. so fast. I remember getting booked to. like assist people in the salon and that. was like so exciting to me. I got I. couldn't afford hair school. I couldn't. afford. >> I was going to say, how did you like. you're so talented? How did you even.

know you can do the things you do? >> Well, I wasn't talented. I studied. people. I like sat there and watched. every salon like hair cutter and all the. colorists. I had to watch everybody to. see how they worked. >> So, you don't have a license and I've. let you cut my hair. >> this whole time, right? >> No. So, I you're going to love this. story. >> I'm scared. >> how we never talked about this. >> I just assumed you like went to school. >> I thought that you'd ask me any. questions about myself over 13 years, and this is the first time. >> I'm like terrified. >> So, I couldn't afford hair school, so I.

did an apprenticeship program at like an. adult occupational center uh downtown. LA. You don't know what that is, but. it's like you go there and get like a. license to be like a plumber. And they. had a cosmetology program. >> Okay. So, I would go and work in the. salon three days a week. I would go to. school the other days and then I would. work at night as a hostess at Luna Park. Right. >> What happened to you? >> So many bartenders I hooked up with. Oh. my god, it's so fun. >> Sorry. [laughter]. >> We're never going to get through this. podcast.

>> So, I would uh let's see. What did I do? I went to this this hair school, adult. occupational center, and I got my. license that way by like apprenticing. So, I did get my license. >> Oh, good. And then I started assisting. really great stylists on set. Um, and. then I got booked to do all the dancers. on Madonna's tour. And so that was my. first. >> So that's like a major first. >> Yeah, that was the first time. I was 26. and I got to go all over the world. >> But what did your parents think? Cuz. your parents are Mormon still in Utah.

And what did they think when their. daughter is now leaving to go to scary. California? >> I mean, so scared now as a mom. I can't. believe they let me go. Were they mad. that you stopped Mormonism? >> Uh, yes. I mean, it's a whole thing. Like, did you ever have Mormon friends? >> No. I've learned about being Mormon. really on Real Housewives of Salt Lake. City. I don't know much about it. No. I. mean, I [laughter] know when you would. joke about Mormon stuff and like.

>> play, but that would really be it. I. never had a lot of Mormon. >> Never did. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, this is the thing. The Mormon church. teaches you that if you're not like. obedient and and worthy of like your. temple recommend, which means like it's. a there's a lot of rules that you will. not live with your family for all time. and eternity in the celestial kingdom. >> O. >> yeah. So there's a little bit of. pressure. >> Yeah. Scary. >> Um so you know they were like scared for. sure. I think they thought I was going. to either be like a drug addict or like. a prostitute and they didn't understand.

that like the world isn't as scary as we. think it is. Mh. >> I mean, it is now, but back then it was. fun. >> No, seriously. >> Yeah. They were like I I think they were. also really proud of me. I've always had. I'm similar to you. Like our dads were. very similar and like we had to sign. contracts very young. I always joke I. was like paying a mortgage, but at the. time I was 12. Like I always had a job. I always had a purpose. >> I was always taught that, you know, the. world didn't owe me anything. That I. needed to work for the things that I. really wanted. And I hated my parents.

for that at times because like I didn't. get the cute cars that my friends got. And you know it was hard in high school, but as an adult like I am so grateful. for it. I feel the same. All the things. that my dad was so strict about or like. the bougie things like no, we didn't. like all of our friends had like credit. cards or like allowances and my dad was. like an allowance for what? Go get a job. and that's your allowance. Like and I. didn't understand it then. I love that. he did that for us. Like we had to work.

all the time and I loved it. >> And I also think like don't you feel. like you've been working forever? >> Yeah. >> Like I have been working since I was 16, 15. >> But it teaches you so much. >> So much. And I felt like adulthood. didn't shock me. I didn't feel like. >> Yeah. I felt like, oh, this is just my. next step. This is my next purpose. This. is my next thing to do. And um I mean. but Chloe honestly we work so hard and. we've worked so hard for so long. >> that like. >> it's been a long time.

>> It's been a long time but also. >> it's the only way to like get all these. amazing like blessings in your life and. >> totally. >> Yeah. >> At the time like there weren't celebrity. lines like there weren't PE like it was. still like L'Oreal and Revlon. Do you. know what I mean? It's just like the big. powerhouse companies and then you branch. out and you have the idea. I'm going to. start my own. >> hair product line. Like what gave you. that confidence to do that? >> I think like. >> besides me. >> Well, it was you. I was the hands and.

you were the loudmouth. That's why I. have a career. >> I feel like um we were all just in this. moment of Instagram just kind of peeking. cuz I met you in 2012 and that's when. Instagram came out. That's what I mean. Like you weren't like you were famous, but you weren't like famous famous. What. year did you start the show? >> 07. >> Oh, shoot. You were more famous than I. think you were then. >> It's okay. I don't care. Well, I. >> You've never seen me for me. [laughter]. Just kidding. I've always just seen you. for you.

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today. Use code Chloe for an extra 20%. off your first month of membership. That's an extra 20% off your first month. at weightwatchers.com. with code Chloe. Offer applies to select. plans. Restrictions apply. Offer ends. May 31st, 2026. 2012, Instagram had just come out and I. feel like we were all kind of in this. moment of learning how to like use it. for business and not just. >> Well, at first it definitely was like a.

Tumblr page. No one had there was no. influencers. There was no aesthetic. pages. You just posted like your cup. You posted this. Not you. Anyone would. post the strangest of things. >> Or we would post like being at the beach. on set and office for the day like. >> like so stupid. I think that part of me. felt like, oh my god, I've always loved. marketing. Like always, I've just been. obsessed with the way that like branding. looks. I love like I'm such a pop. culture junkie that I remember like what.

Hello Kitty made me feel like. I. remember like the Gap back in the day. I. remember just like I loved branding. And. so I felt at the time like I had no idea. I was going to have a line. I mean, I. started thinking of the idea in 2014. when I was really working with you. I. don't even know if you remember this. We. were on set and we I think you were. doing interviews and I had a call with. and there that team I think like I was. pitching them the idea of a digitally.

connected hairare brand and I was so. excited about it and like it's going to. be the first of its kind where you. really are talking to your customers and. like it hadn't happened yet. Glossier. had launched that same year. >> and I was like, I just think it'd be a. really good idea. And I remember being. on the phone with him and you were. telling me to hang up because he told. me, that's a great idea. You're not. famous enough and it's not going to. work. Call us back in 5 years. >> See, you rip. And literally like we beat. them like we were on the same shelf.

within 3 years uh that they were and. like we beat them in sales in probably 5. years. But I remember you telling me you. were like, "Hang up the phone.". >> Well, yeah. I don't let people talk to. us like that. >> Yeah. >> Sorry. >> But that really put fuel. >> like in my tank. I was like, "I'm going. to prove them wrong." And I felt like we. were all in a position where I mean, you. guys I say it all the time and I won't. cry talking about it, but like you guys. were the first to ever ever shout out. your glam team. >> Yes. We always get told that because no.

one would even acknowledge like you look. this certain way and you're like so. done. But everyone wanted the perception. of I woke up like this. This is how I. just naturally were like. >> well this is like hours and hours of a. facade but it's fun. >> You know what is so crazy about that. time? >> I feel like we were the best. >> No, we were all growing our brands but. it didn't feel like it. We were just. kind of like living and having so much. fun and being on Snapchat and doing.

funny filters and just like showing our. life cuz it was just fun. It was like a. journal. >> It was. >> And it was so innocent too back then. >> And I appreciate the time it was because. now it's like influencer overload and. like everything that someone's talking. about they're being paid to talk about. where like when we were doing you. literally just did whatever you wanted. and if you were talking about something. you were just talking about it. Thank. god we all had each other because I. remember like Jess Alba was doing Honest. Company at the time. >> I remember. >> my friend Emily Weiss was doing Glossier.

and you guys were launching all of your. companies. Oh my god, how many amazing. shoots did we do? >> I mean how many but also I think it's so. important to say is cuz even close. friends of mine are like all you guys do. is all these successful things. I'm. like, do you know how many things we've. done that have failed and tanked and you. are a testament to like you've how many. shoots have we done because we've done. so much crap and it maybe had a little. momentum and then it tanked like you. have to kiss a bunch of frogs.

>> and then you find your prince and that's. okay. >> Yeah, >> we just do it on a larger scale where. >> I mean no I'm going to shout you out. I'm interrupting you and shouting you. out for this because I was there with. you for a good like seven years. >> of you not only navigating like your. personal life that was complicated, helping everybody with all of their. things, making sure everyone in your. life was taken care of and you were. traveling the world. like we went all. over the world together and you would.

just no matter what was going on in your. personal life would show up with such. light and grace and. >> it was cuckoo. I was like how is this. girl doing this? Like. >> we were just young. >> I mean Chloe the energy we had. But. speaking about that, we got to go to the. best craziest places and I feel like. even though we were working, Jen and I. have such a good relationship like we. would It's before kids. before any of. that. So, we had different energy, but. we had so much fun in every place that.

we went. And we've literally gone. >> everywhere. >> Australia, Dubai, >> London, Amsterdam, Costa Rica. >> Yes. Oh my god. >> New York a million times. Everywhere. >> Yeah, we had the best time. But. >> I really feel like I got to see so many. versions of you. And what's interesting. is, you know, I would get a lot of to be. honest about being friends with my. clients. Like it was looked down upon. that like I was being friends with my. clients and I'm like I.

>> am with we have spent so much time. together Chloe and it's so intimate you. know being in someone's house and like. outsiders. >> Yeah. Like people. Yeah. >> because how much and when you get your. glam done whether like even if for. someone to relate if you're just at the. salon getting your nails done or your. hair done they always say like your hair. stylist is like your therapist. When I'm. seeing you, it's the most vulnerable. time. You're in your home. It's like. 5:00 a.m. You might have had a long.

night. Your baby's been crying. Your. husband did something. Whatever. You're. the first person I see. >> Yes. I'm going to word vomit all this. stuff to you. >> I had a transponder to your gate. >> To my gate. But it's. >> that's the connection and it's so deep. that of course you like fall in love. with your glam teams and you guys be. like people become such good friends. So, I think people don't know cuz. they're not in those intimate moments. But also, we're traveling together. We're jetlagged together. It's. everything.

>> Yeah. I think the relatable thing to. everybody though is like no matter what. you're doing and who you're working. with, be a good person and don't be a. user and just like show up and protect. the people you work with and don't be. catty and don't be dramatic and don't. put your whatever's going on with your. especially as a hair stylist. I have to. say I used to get so mad when people. would come in and just dump on you. >> Yeah. And you know, you had to be so. like front-facing, forward facing, and.

then you have to go and meet people. I. mean, at the time you were I don't know. how you did it, but like you were. meeting thousands of people and having. one-on-one conversations and making. every person feel seen and heard, and I. was exhausted just watching you do it. And. >> it was a different time. >> But like when I when glam people would. like not be like. >> professional. >> professional. Well, speaking of. professionalism, it's always something. like totally get you. There's evolutions.

and we all evolve and grow into. different phases. When Jen worked with. me, Jen was with me literally every day. for like seven years. Then she wanted to. go and start way. And I'll never forget. how you handled this. You were like, I'm. going to leave and start way. You talked. to me about it and you said, I'm going. to train someone and leave you with. someone. I'm not going to leave until I. know you're comfortable. And I have. never been treated with such respect and. I will say professionalism although you.

and I were so close. >> and you did exactly that. Like I've been. told from people, >> oh, I'll make sure I do all this. delicately or there'll be a smooth. transition and it's nevering happened. And with you, I've always used you as. been like, Jen, you set me up for. success. I want you to go and be. successful and do your thing and I'm. supportive of you, but like also can. this be like a win-win? I don't want to. be left high and dry as silly as that. is, but I still have to work too. and. you did it. Like if anyone could teach a.

class in that and I don't get why more. people don't do that cuz it only makes. that person like cheer you on more and. be like yes like I don't know they make. it's makes you feel that you're not. being used and it wasn't just a stepping. stone and I will always respect you for. how you handled that situation. >> How I handled our breakup. >> Yeah. It wasn't a breakup conscious. uncoupling. >> Yes. >> Before it existed. >> Yes. You know what? It wasn't even a. breakup. It was just. >> moment. Like my business was starting to.

like take off and I was like, "Oh my. god, I need to I can't do it all. I'm. Michelle myself." Pre-kids, by the way. >> And I remember being like feeling so. guilty. I felt so much guilt for like. leaving this profession full-time that. had like brought me so many blessings. And I was like, "How am I going to do. this?" And the crazy thing is Chloe, like it was the perfect time for me to. step in and like really nurture the. brand to get it to where and I had at. the time 30 people who relied on me to.

not screw up and get cancelled. And like. they're working really hard every day on. this brand. And I was like, I've got to. do this. And I just felt in my heart it. was just the perfect timing. And like. you and I both have now collectively. changed so many people's lives. And. you've seen these girls go from. assistants to now like amazing hair. stylists in their have amazing careers. and they'll have amazing things. happening in their life. >> But you've definitely paved the way for. so many people. So Jen was tragically. one of the people who lost her Malibu.

home in the Palisades fire and how did. that experience shape you? I remember. speaking to you when it was happening. >> You offered for us to come and stay at. your house. >> Okay. Well, that was ridiculous of me. [laughter] you were that worried about. me. >> I don't think I meant that. >> That experience goes in just the file of. hard things that people go through that. you know my dad dying. You know how. horrible that is. >> Yeah. >> I had a dog that we lost to a coyote. tragically in front of me and that was.

just painful. I'm such a dog person. >> I know I wasn't but I am. >> She wasn't at all. >> And losing the house has given me just. like crazy empathy. The only thing that. I've gained from it is just empathy. Like I realized in that moment, you. know, it's been nine months and I feel. like I'm just starting to like feel my. own loss and our own loss of like our. home because it's been just such a heavy. loss for everybody. I also in that. moment felt so held by our friends and.

our community and our neighbors and we. all were checking on one another and my. husband stayed behind with some of our. neighbors to help evacuate um elderly. people in our community. And you know, we never thought I I went to work that. day, texted Mike and said, "Hey, there's. some smoke near Tanga 10:00 a.m. Never. thought 8:00 p.m. our house would be. gone.". >> Right? And I think if anything, I feel. like the best thing you could do and the. best thing I could do is tell people to.

be prepared. Like I had a firebox. We. had a fire scare 2 months prior. So 3:00. a.m. our power went out. Mike and I went. around the house and gathered the letter. from my dad, my grandma's jewelry. Anything that mattered to us, we put in. this big box. And so we had it ready to. go. >> Something that I know I'm really. spiritual. I never know where you stand. on that because you always go up and. down. But when you went So Jen also has. now it's her main home, but at the time. it was her second home. Um she moved to.

Seattle and I remember seeing you on. social and you were going through. belongings and you thought your. grandma's jewelry got burned in the fire. and then you found it later in one of. those boxes. >> I know. Does that. ignite your spirituality at all? Does. that make you be like, "Oh my gosh, like. these are signs. She made sure this was with me.". >> Cuz when I saw that, I got chills.

>> I know. It was so crazy. I, you know, you're in such fight or flight and then. as a mom, you're like, "Okay, my kids. have nothing right now. I need to like. get supplies." And then people I had. like so many people sending us just like. toys and food and it was just very. overwhelming. And I remember maybe 2. months later I was like, "Oh my god, my. grandma's I had like this other stack of. jewelry." And I remember just being. like, "I didn't grab it." And I didn't. think Mike was calling me and saying, "Babe, what else can I grab? Is there. anything else?" And I did not think we.

were going to lose our house. >> I was like, "There's no way at 2 p.m. when you're evacuating that we're going. to lose this house.". >> Yeah. So anyways, I went to the garage. in Seattle. We were we got all of our. things. Um we had like one garage in. Malibu that made it. It was like random. things in there, but there was a couple. of boxes. So we were kind of going. through and cleaning out all of the. stuff and there was a sunglass case and. I opened it up and my grandma's jewelry. was in it. >> How is that a coincidence? Like how you. have to believe and there's a deeper.

meaning. >> My god, Chloe. like you know we all I. know it's so cliche to be like after. someone dies and there's your little. thing that you remember you know when I. see a rainbow is so basic but I grew up. in Hawaii and my dad loved rainbows but. like you know there is so many moments. like that where I fully feel like in the. afterlife and you have to understand the. guilt I had leaving the Mormon church. thinking I'll never be with my family. ever again is so strong. >> but I've completely worked through all. of that and I understand like I I do.

feel like whether it's like You're just. like a part of a universe when you pass. Nobody knows, right? None of us know, but I do feel like. >> my family's energy. >> protecting us all the time. I think. about it a lot. Yeah, >> I love that. I'm such a faith-based. person. >> And I don't know. I just I don't know. how I would survive my days without just. having that faith or that spirituality. to lean on. >> I mean, who's the first person that. tells you to keep posting your Bible.

quotes? >> You. I know. I love them. It makes me. feel like and I need you to do it more. because. >> honestly, Chloe, like I think the more. information that we're given through. just our phones all day, every day. >> I just feel like the best thing we can. do is show up and be a light. We need. more of it. We need more people just. like taking care of each other and like. I will tell you the fire taught me know. your neighbors, right? >> Get to know them on a personal level. Like I'd never had that in LA until we. lived in Malibu. M. >> and it's just something that's so.

important to like we like send little. baskets for holidays to all of our. neighbors just to like so they know our. phone number so they know our kids what. our dog looks like you know it's just. really important to like rely on your. neighbors. >> tip it really is especially. >> I think in places like LA where so many. people don't do that I do think it is. important to do that. >> I've been thinking a lot about how much. modern life quietly takes a toll on us. even when I'm doing all the right things. I still notice where I feel bloated low. energy or just not quite myself. That's.

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to give them the best. Thanks so much to. Ali for sponsoring this episode. What do you raise cuz Mike is Jewish. What do you raise your children with any. belief system? >> So my husband uh is Jewish and I was. raised Mormon. So neither of us are like. super practicing. He doesn't go to. temple. Um I don't think that our kids. to be honest. I'm going to take him the. church of Dr. Becky. Like I feel like. we're going to navigate this and the way. that we're breaking emotional and.

generational trauma as what we're not. gentle parenting, right? But we're like. breaking a lot of the things that maybe. we wish we wouldn't had passed on to us. And I think with religion, I kind of. feel the same way. I want my kids to. have a new version and a new form of. spirituality. And I was just thinking. about this last night. >> I actually grew up praying with my. grandparents. Like they prayed together. every night on their knees every night. and just like prayed for family members, prayed for if they read in the news that. there was like a fire or if there was.

like, you know, earthquake. >> And I remember growing up around that. and feeling so protected by that. >> ritual. And I think I want to start. doing that with the kids. And if it's. not to like a certain God, it's even. just to the universe and like saying a. prayer for people. And I think it'll. teach them that like, you know, we're. we're all just little ants on this. planet. And. >> I love that. I think that's a beautiful. first step. I am spiritual. >> in you being saved. Just [laughter]. kidding. [gasps]. >> But it is a beautiful. >> I'm really proud of us for getting.

through this, by the way, and not just. completely tearing each other apart. We're the kind of friends, by the way, that like we're sisters at this point. where I can just say the worst thing to. you and it makes you laugh. >> Something about my mom's party. Oh my. god. Jen and I were both like really up. and Jen was like, "The hate you." And. I'm like, "I hate you.". >> Oh, we would be on set all the time and. people would look like, "Do they hate. each other?". >> Yes. love. >> Find a friend that can just dish it and.

take it because it is. >> we are just verbally assaulting one. another but we need to let it out. somewhere and like we we know it's safe. We're not canceling each other but we. will be. >> I've never gotten offended either one of. us. We'll be like you're so literally. like you're acting so adopted. >> Well, it's true sometimes. >> Do you remember your app? Like you would. make me do the craziest things for that. app. >> Well, once you start working a lot, you. don't have a lot of friends. So that. >> you were one of my besties on your.

channel, by the way, cuz I really love. your podcast. I'm not just saying it. I. really do. And I don't like podcasts, but I like yours. >> I know you've told me four times. Why. the am I doing a podcast? >> I was looking at like videos that you've. posted, and you have a thumbnail of you. and I, and it says, "Who's guess who's. the best liar with my face next to it?". >> Well, it's you. You are a great liar. Which era do you think had the best. hair? I don't need like a big spiel. about it. the 70s because everyone had. really big hair, really sexy dresses, like everyone was just like selling sex.

in a really glamorous way and also. everyone was on quaudes. So that's my. favorite era. >> Win-win. >> Yeah. I don't know why when I thought. '7s, I was thinking '8s cuz '8s would. suck. >> Studio 54, Jerry Hall, like just really. gorgeousness. >> How many Barbies do you have? >> My god, >> I'm going all over. >> Something happened. Okay, you know that. I My first child was Barbie Birkin. >> Barbie Birkin. I love that Barbie. >> No, this Barbie. So, Jen had this. Barbie, Barbie Burke, her own Instagram. account, everything. And no one knew who.

ran the Instagram account at the time. >> It was like, what was that one that was. Nory's Black Book? It was like that. >> And but you don't want to pull back the. curtain. Like, I don't want to know who. the wizard is in the Wizard. [clears throat] of Oz. >> Did you ever find out who that is? >> Yes, we had a lunch with her on Keeping. Up and it's sort of like. >> there's nobody we know. >> No, we thought it was me for a minute. >> We thought we called you and asked if it. was you. We thought it was like Jonathan. or Joyce. We had so many people. I mean, you're witty enough for it to be. >> Well, thank you. >> You are.

>> You know, I have probably over 50. Barbies now, but in co I really like. fell into a deep dark place. I I told. you I loved branding. Okay. Barbie was. the first like thing I got. >> kind of like hooked on. I'm going to say. a few things to you really quick. We. have to switch gears. The Barbies. We're. going to talk about Ivar. >> Yeah. We're gonna talk about Hyde. We're. gonna talk about Nia. >> We're gonna talk about the Mandrean. >> We're gonna talk about. >> No. What? >> Cherry. Was that on Highland?

>> No. L. There was like club cherry. >> I don't know. >> You know this club cuz Paris used to go. all the time. Anyways, we just we were. living in a LAX. >> Lax. >> Joseph. It was Joseph's. >> Wait, can I just say we needed to go off. on the comments right now because I need. all the millennials who are watching. your podcast to know or listening to it. We need to know like who's bringing club. culture back to like the millennial moms. and dads who like. >> Yes. Well, at a much earlier time.

>> It needs to start at 6:00. We're home by. 9:00. >> But I will put my phone at the door and. I will throw down so hard. >> I'll be the if it does start at 600, I'll be the first one there. >> We need club culture back. I know it's. not the same. It was so fun, but also. there was no phones. >> But even your mom's party, by the way, I. came to your mom's party. Really? Because you said you were taking phones. at the door. >> Yeah. Do you know how many people. actually came because of that? So, so my. mom had every name you could imagine in. the phone book was at my mom's party.

>> Literally. >> Literally. But so many people came. because they knew there were no phones. and people felt safe. They could put. their guards down. And even just how. connected people were cuz they weren't. that awkwardly texting when it got a. little quiet, >> showing pictures or just Yes, it was so. nice. People were making eye contact and. having so much fun. >> So nice. >> Um, but we need club culture back and I. think you and I are the ones to do it. >> So you want us to open up a club? >> It's going to be called club le don't. >> Okay. >> And it's going to start at 6.

>> Tell me the last time you did something. selfish just for fun. >> What a question. What have I done that's. selfish? Ooh, I was in Paris recently. This never happens. I was by myself in. Paris for way. We did this huge. activation. It was a dream come true. And I got like 4 hours to myself and I. was supposed to do some work, but I was. like, you know, LA's asleep. I'm going. to go. And I went shopping and I just. took myself on a little shopping spree. and I went to the row and I bought a bag.

and I like had just like a fabulous. afternoon. It was the best. >> Okay. Kendall Jenner sheep. >> I know. Will Kendall let me wear the. robe? Am I allowed? >> Yes, you're allowed. What is the most. surprising note in your notes app right. now? >> The most surprising? Honey, >> I am scared of your notes. >> Pictures of you. >> Oh my god. Wow. >> I was preparing for today and I was like. trying to remember just all the things. we've been through. >> Jen is someone who's the most prepared. Even when it could be from going to. work, she will show people if you're.

like, I'm going to do an updo. She'll. have like 20 different updo images and. she'll show you and like you pick one. and Jen can actually recreate it, which. is awesome. But you are the most. prepared in whatever you do. Even. >> with brands, with like all of the stuff. you do, if it's someone else's brand, you're still like, "Wait, it should look. like this." And you have photos. It's. wild. I love it. >> I'm such a nerd. Chloe, you know about. me. I love Google Docs. I love the notes. app. I love Figma. I love like I just. love being organized and prepared. If. you think I know what Figma is, you're.

crazy. What is your can't live without. glam product? >> I mean, here's the thing. I do like I. don't really do hair anymore. >> For yourself? >> Oh, for myself, I would say Okay, I will. tell you two things I can't live. without. I just launched this amazing. dry shampoo foam that's called Fresh. Fluff, and it's like a mousse, but you. work it into your hair, and it makes. your hair so clean and soft and amazing. >> I'm obsessed. Why did you send that to. me? >> I gave you something that's coming out. very soon. The double brush.

>> The double brush. >> It's a travel brush. That is like my new. obsession. So in my drawer hiding cuz. God forbid I show it like please. Do you. ever miss the chaos of early glam years. or you have. >> And there's two And there's two. [laughter]. >> God. This is why I'm good at what I do. >> Holy. >> And there's two scents we came out with. with Weey. We came out with the Beza and. Santorini and I'm obsessed. We've worked. on it for two years. >> No. Which is the one I love. >> We're taking you on vacation, baby. You. love St. Barts. >> I love St. Barts. Like Santorini is to.

die for. >> I love. Santorini. >> In the St. Barts is what you love. >> I No, but I. >> Oh, yeah. You love Santorini. I know you. love Santorini. You've been obsessed. with it. >> It's insane. You keep asking me for. more. >> Didn't you go to Santorini with us for. filming? >> No. >> Oh, >> that wasn't me. >> Sorry, wrong person. Do you ever miss. the chaos of Early Glam, or do are you. happy it slowed down? >> Of early glam? What do you mean being. there early? >> No. Do I miss the commute to your house. and being at your house cuz you like to.

glam at 6 a.m. >> The real thing is that Jen stopped. working with me because Kendall got old. enough. >> and had her own house in Beverly Hills. So Jen was like, I'm going to lie and. say I quit, but I'm really just going to. move on with Kendall. But that's a whole. other thing is this. I was I I hung up. my scissors and then Kendall moved to. the city and she's like my little sister. and I had to take care of her getting. your scissors out. And then Kylie just. got so famous that I couldn't ignore. her. >> Exactly. >> You know what I mean? Like she had this.

brand. It was really taking off. >> Right. You had to do it. >> So I could drive out here from her. [laughter]. >> But I'd wave at you when I passed your. house. >> You would. You know what? It's fine. What is a song that takes you back to. the early 2000s? >> Oo. >> Oh my god. Wait, that came to you so. quickly? >> Cuz I was just dancing to it at your. mom's party. >> Oh my god. Wow. Or. >> you're such a good singer. >> What hair trend do you never want to.

come back? You putting. >> crown braids crown braids. >> because literally I did an Olsson. inspired crown braid on this girl in. 2012. >> and it was so cute with your floral. dress and the [ __ ] wouldn't stop. talking about it for 5 years. >> No, how much I hated it. >> You were so mad. >> Well, first of all, I wish I was as cool. as the Olsen sisters. I was also much. chubbier. This person, this girl in. front of me gives me a crown. >> It was boho chic. >> I'm not boho. I am was like on steroids.

at the time. >> You doing boho braids for me for life. Okay. So, I wanted to never come back so. we never have to talk about it again. >> Jen thought she was like so innovative. and riveting. She [laughter] put this. Rita Hison. >> in my defense. >> spray paint in the part of my hair which. we'll plop up a picture. >> I'll show you all the photos. It's a. blue line and it was like a you took a. Sharpie and drew down my part and I. thought it was great too cuz I wore it. and then in hindsight.

>> we were just trying things. >> Babe, do you understand how much. pressure was on me? We had what was that. website? Hollywood lifewood. >> and we lived to be on it. >> and Hollywood Life would always shout. out our glam. So we had pressure to. bring something we were on it and it was. like you could like vote. We were just. like oh we've made it. That was like. Vogue. >> Yeah. And Pink is a new blog. If we were. on that, we made it. >> What are you staring at over here? >> That one piece is driving me. [laughter]. >> What is it? >> Can you see me staring at.

>> What do you mean? I'm not Stevie Wonder. Of course. I've never seen anything like. this. >> So, sorry. It's just distracting to me. I need it to be like It's better now. You had one little hair that was. literally Chloe. It's like Let me show. you what it feels like to me. You're. talking, but the hair is just doing that. and it's so destructive. Well, my next. question is, are you type A or type B? But I think we know that answer, >> honey. >> Anyways, >> I'm close CD is what I am. >> What's your favorite main product? I. feel like. >> Oh, hot round brush for sure. One is.

sold every 7 seconds. >> Shut up. >> Swear to God. >> The one that I tried to. >> That was like a tool I wanted to make. for the moms. The moms that are rushed. that like are just starting to look at. themselves again in the mirror. >> So, you're like rich rich, >> honey. >> That's amazing for you. >> That's not true. I'm invested. Let's. just say that. >> I love it. Yeah. >> Wow. You're well beat. >> The hot round brush, baby. >> You could buy me dinner. >> You can get it at Sephora. Sephora. >> No, it is a great brush because if I am.

literally. >> Oh my god. >> not able to use even like I can't brush. my hair properly. >> Talk about me trying to show you how to. do your hair a million times. >> Yeah, we have a video. We need to give. them that video. So, I was dating. someone in Houston, and I remember. saying to Jen, "I can't bring glam, but. like, who's going to teach me how to. curl my hair?" Jen's like, "Oh my god, let's film it." And when you're in. Houston, watch the video back. >> It is the most train wreck of a video. >> But what's crazy is I've done that. I.

did it for Courtney and her bangs like. two weeks ago. I've done it with. Kendall. She's facetimed me a million. times to ask how to do. They pick up on. these things and they do it. >> I can't. No, I student that just. >> just mentally. >> doesn't want to leave the nest. >> No, I can't. And it's curling like it's. not that. >> like Chloe. You know how many people. know how to like curl their hair now? How many Tik Tok videos there are? It's. just. >> And I don't I've literally tried to. watch YouTube. I'm like, maybe it's a. gen problem and you don't know how to. teach. Well, no, it's not. I've gone on. YouTube. I've.

>> I mean, I've taught you a million times. >> It No, I just can't compute it. And then. to know that you do it a different way. each side. I'm like, >> remember I always teach you keep the. butt of the cord facing up and just. change hands and you just. >> handle it. >> Well, you look beautiful. >> Well, I didn't do my hair. >> Thank god you've got a lot of people on. speed dial. >> At least it's job security. >> Yeah. Remember when you used to wear. pink latex? >> I loved that. Fun story. Yeah. >> That was my finger. My knuckles are all.

bloody because I punched Lamar. minutes. Well, probably hours before. lying. >> That's when. >> in this pap shot. >> Yes. Because that was Scott Dix's. birthday in Vegas. >> Yeah. >> And I remember right before is when I. went to say goodbye to what I thought. was Lamar that didn't have a phone and. he's recovering from his overdose and I. walk in on him doing naughty things. And. so I swung on him and I punched him. >> Do you know what's crazy? I can't even. watch the episode where you like see.

him. >> Oh, it's wild. >> I can't I'll never watch it. It's just. too hard. >> I blacked out. >> Oh, that was your main exposure. >> I'm going to say about this part. >> The best I've ever looked. >> Chloe, mother effing Kardashian has. always been the most supportive human. being on the face of the planet and the. reason I'm here today. >> Oh, >> but like you did my very first Main. Addicts before Maine the Tools was Main. Addicts, which is a digital platform. magazine about hair. And you did our. very first like digital cover. >> Yep. And my took a picture of your lips.

>> in my home, >> which then Kylie copied. >> Thank you. >> And became the Kylie lip kit lip. >> What do the young kids do? This. >> I don't know. >> All of it. Nope. But we did. We did the. shoot at my house. Mary did my makeup. You did my hair. Mike shot it. >> Yeah. >> At Grandioso. We just went to different. white walls. I did my own styling. I. mean, look at the hat, obviously. >> Oh my god. But it was so fun. >> It was so fun. And we made it. >> So, how cute are you? Did you point? No, >> we had so much fun and time.

>> I wouldn't be doing this extra [ __ ] if I. had kids. >> Can we just say a PSA for any. kids? Any girl out there who thinks that. you've got it rough. Please sleep in. Please just go and hook up with as many. people as possible. >> As many people. >> and honestly, just like your ass life. and yes, >> travel when we have fun. I have no. regrets. Look at this. >> Oh my god, that was on such a [ __ ] That. was Rupaul's Drag Race when I first of.

all biggest fan obsessed with Rue. >> No one asked me to dress in a character. I'm willingly like I'm going to be a. sailor. >> Wait, how did that come to be? I don't. know why I chose to be a sailor. No, I. look amazing. But the balls I had I'm a. sailor one. I was like a leopard in the. second episode. I don't know why I. thought I needed to dress like Campy. >> because we were just at the time it was. like campy. That's what you do if you.

show up to Rupaul's Drag Race. Can we. discuss something? >> I guess. >> you're kind of annoying because you're. so you're always like you've always got. an aesthetic. I was just going through. these pictures of like your old house. You always had like an aesthetic and a. vibe. >> which was what? >> But like I don't understand how you have. your together. >> I don't either. Like truly, how have you just always had your. together? You never fall apart. >> What? I fall apart all the time. >> No, you don't. >> I have days. I don't have like.

>> grumpy is still like not as bad as like. most people. >> You're pretty like in the light. >> It's annoying. It's not a compliment. It's annoying. >> When True is upset, she goes, >> "Peace begins with me. Peace begins with. >> Who taught her that?". >> I don't know. Oh, she'll just do that if. she feels frustrated cuz like. >> she'll do something that she's like sits. away. She goes, "Peace begins with me.". And I was like, I'm stealing that. >> Jen, thank you so much for coming on. I. know how much you hate podcasts and you.

hate me, but I really appreciate you. coming on. >> I am so happy to be here and I'm so. proud of you and all the things that you. do and all of the amazing light you put. into the world. And the podcast is just. another outlet for you. >> And even though you're still drunk, you. did a great job. You really did. struggle. You're so drunk. [laughter].