How to Actually Find Love in 2025 ft. Logan Ury | Khloé In Wonder Land Ep. 10

Are we ready? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Good. We're good. Your hair looks good. Did. you chop it off? I did. Looks really. cute. Thank you. Yeah. I'll have. extensions back like longer hair like. next month. I feel like if you took the. temperature on dating right now there's. a dating crisis. And why do you think. that is? I feel like there's too many. options and people are treating each. other like they're disposable. Like I. just don't think that we're really. valuing each other. I have seen so many.

different dating coaches and not all of. them handle people the way you do. I. mean, sort of my unofficial motto is the. spark. This obsession with instant. chemistry and fireworks and I think that. that actually holds people back. So many. of the best relationships really have. this slow burn feeling where it develops. over time. I love Disney movies. I love. romcoms, but they do create this idea. that the how you met is so important. And if you're with someone for 50 years, the day that you meet is.

0.0055% of your total time together. So, who cares how you met? You can meet in. an unromantic way and have a very. romantic relationship. I love that. You're so right. Oh my gosh. Baby, let. me love you. Yeah. I want to be your. lover. [Music]. Hi, Logan. I'm so excited to have you.

on. Now, I learned about you or I was. introduced to you because I was watching. The Later Daters on Netflix, and I know you're a matchmaker on that. show, but I wouldn't label you as a. matchmaker. You do so much more. And I. love that just from the show, you were. you are um so charming and kind, but. also telling them the truth. Then I just.

loved. your just how you handle I think dating. And then when I started researching you. a little bit more and knowing that you. went to Harvard and you worked at Google. and there's so many layers to you and I. just find you so fascinating. So thank. you for coming on. I really was so. excited that you said yes. Yes. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Thank you for. the kind words and I love that you found. me through Later Daters. So yes, I. actually would call myself a dating. coach over a matchmaker. So really less. focused on connecting people and really.

focused on helping people understand. here's how you've been dating in the. past. Here's why it's not working. Let's. make a plan for how you can date. differently and then that's how you're. going to date like a scientist and get. different results. I think it's so. fascinating because I don't know if you. are so young or you look so young but. either way you look and you probably are. so young but you have so much experience. and I think is and so much wisdom. Um, but especially because the show is about.

people dating in the later chapters in. their lives and how you handle everyone. I know this isn't a plug for the show. It's more about your personality and. what really made me gravitate towards. you. And I was like, gosh, I find you so. interesting because I have seen so many. different life coaches, dating coaches, and not all of them handle people the. way you do. And I think that takes a lot. of empathy, but also self-awareness of. your own. And then when I started. looking you up and just you're so.

intelligent and you've lived so many. lives and I'm like, let's have her on. Yay. Thank you. Yes. You know, a lot of. my research has been with Gen Z and. millennial daters and then on the show. it was over 55 and I was kind of nervous. beforehand. I was like, this isn't my. typical demographic. I don't know if. everything's going to apply. But I. actually found that so much of what I. teach and all these lessons about love. are really universal because dating is a. skill and it can be taught at any age. It is. And so I didn't realize that most. of your education, I guess if you will,

your practice was for the Gen Z and. millennials. Do you think that cuz I really think. that there's even a difference in dating. from Gen Z's to millennials. What would. you what are those what are the over 55s. called? I mean, they're kind of like5. Gen X/Boomer. Okay. Yeah. Is it really. hard to like to get them out of that old. school mindset that they have? Cuz I. still feel like I have an old school. mindset. Yeah. So, there's differences.

in each generation. So, I've done a lot. of research on Jenzi. I work as the. director of relationship science at. Hinge. So, I work at that dating app and. then I get to do a lot of research. One. thing about Gen Z is a lot of them came. of age during the pandemic. I think that. that did have a big impact on people's. social skills. Like imagine if you were. in high school and like everyone in your. class was talking to each other and. flirting before class and then all of a. sudden you're all home isolated on Zoom. You do sort of miss out on some of those. essential flirting skills. You know, if.

your prom was canceled, you didn't have. that prom date and that prom first kiss. and all of that. And so I do feel like. with Jenzie, there are some differences. versus millennials. also just being. digital natives, growing up with phones, all of those things I think impacted. And then millennials are the first. generation that really had dating apps. And I think that dating is so different. now from even 10 years ago. Like it used. to be that people would meet through. family and friends or at a bar or at. work. And then since 2017, the number.

one way that people meet is online. I do. think that that's just blowing up. everything that we know about dating. Yes. And then for the older dator, a lot. of them have been married once or twice. on this show and I feel like for the. older daters, there's just a sense of. I'm afraid to put myself out there or. I'm dating the same way I always have. I. feel like women can't make the first. move. And so for those older daters, I. spent a lot of time, especially the. women, telling them to throw out that. outdated rule book and really date for. how people date now. It's just so.

intimidating cuz I know how hard it is. to change the smallest of habits. Now. you're asking people to adjust and. change in the most vulnerable of habits. And I think the older we get, the more. stubborn we get to change. And I the. fact that you're able to do that, I. mean, it's a testament to you and your. skill. And it sounds so scary. It really. is. And yeah, there's a metaphor I like. to use that like when you're in your 20s. and you meet someone, you're both like. these two unformed things that come.

together. So it's sort of like a. startup. like you and your partner come. together and you're like we're going to. build a life together and you're still. very much becoming who you're going to. become and then when you're older you're. really a complete being and so is the. other person and so unlike a startup. it's like two companies coming together. for a merger and these mergers as you. know are notoriously hard because it's. like who's going to be the CEO who's. going to be the head of HR and so for. these older folks you know some of them. have lived alone for 20 years and the. idea of combining closets combining.

fridges what time do we set the alarm in. the morning. That's really hard for. them. And so I think Oh my gosh, I. relate to that so much right now. I'm. like 20 years. If I was alone for 20. years, I don't know if I cuz I've been. single for three years. Sorry I. interrupted you, but I've been single. for three years and not dating nothing. by choice. And I get afraid now. I'm. very happy where I am right now. Not I. don't think I'm ready to date at the. moment, but I'm like, gosh, I can't even.

imagine sharing my bed, my remote, my. household. Like, don't throw me off my. routine. Well, that was one of the. things I was thinking about as I was. preparing for this is like you have such. a full life. Like, I feel like you're. this amazing businesswoman, you're a. great mom, you have great friends and. family. Like, do you need someone in. your life for this romantic role? Like, is that something that you're looking. for right now? No. Like even when I I. took a quiz that you suggested, would. you say it's a personality quiz? Yeah, I. have like three dating tendencies. Um.

different types of daters. It's a. framework that I came up with. And yes, you took it and I I have your results. Okay. Well, we're going to go through. that later. I'm excited. But I know if I. wanted to date, I would right now. I. just don't feel that there's this. emptiness in my life in that regard. And. I think when you have young kids, at. least for me, it's really hard for me to. even cuz I can't go. Well, I can, but I. don't want to go out to a restaurant. with someone that I've just met because.

then I'm linked to this person and it. turns into some bigger thing. I don't. have the average person's issues, so I. know they're they're oneoffs. But and I. don't want to bring someone to my home. because my children are there and I just. don't want to introduce my kids to. someone unless I've they've been in my. life for I would say at least 6 months. or something like that. Yeah. Um and I'm. not going to their house cuz what if. they murder me? There's always that. Yes, there's always. that thought. So I'm not there yet. I.

imagine when I am I guess I'll figure it. out. That's super interesting. Like what. comes to mind for me is like you need. like a third space. Yes. between like. the out the external world, your home. I. don't know what that would be, but maybe. it's like a friend's house who's out of. town a lot and you do dates at their. house or something like that. It's so. funny. My sister and I, we always say we. need a crash pad, like a bachelorette. pad, not to, you know, hook up, but just. like a safe space like, okay, you want. to have dinner, we're going to have it. here because also if I'm like getting a. hotel room, that's really important,

right? It sends the wrong message. Well, it's interesting. I think in some ways. your dating life might must be so. different from most people's, but in. other ways it's like you're a mom with. young kids and you're dealing with the. same thing as other young moms, which is. this feeling of, well, if I'm going to. spend a night away from my kids, it. better be worth it. And then it sets the. bar really high versus I imagine if you. were dating in your 20s, you'd be like, "Oh, well, we'll see how this is." Oh, it was so much easier in my 20s and I. would go out and just like whatever and. it's not a big deal. And I don't know.

even if it would be that big of a deal. at my age if I didn't have kids. I think. the children factor is what makes. everything so different, right, for me. And probably even on the first date, you're like, how would they be around my. children? Are they ready to be around my. children? Is this somebody I want to be. around my children? It just does change. the game. It really does. Oh god. But. what like when you think about your life. like in a year or two if you found. someone like what role are they playing. in your life? Because as we said, your.

life is really full and like many of. your needs are met by your OSOs, your. other significant others. So, I am what. people probably don't think about me, I'm actually very traditional in a. relationship. Like, I like the man to be. the man, like lead. Um, I always want to. make the man feel like the man. Like, even if someone makes more money than. the other, I would never put that in. someone's face or have them feel a. certain way. I'm just not that person.

But what would that like? I don't need a. man for anything, but I want them for. companionship, I would think, and just. to live life with and create memories. with. I do want the help with my kids. Like, I want my kids to see that there's. a mommy and a daddy, even if it's not. their dad. Yeah. No, it totally makes sense. and. swords sort of like for you maybe making. the distinction between like there's an. empty spot in my bed that I eventually. want to fill but that doesn't mean I'm.

taking anything away from my ex in terms. of the kid's father right it's just. another person to love them and that's. how my mom and my stepdad did that. seamlessly like I never felt like my. stepdad was coming in and taking my. father's place my father was never. excluded from anything and my stepdad. was never he never cared if we called. him dad or Bruce or whatever. He was so. chill and fantastic about everything.

that it made us proud to have all three. of them around. And then even when my. dad would have different girlfriends, we. all really liked most of them. Yeah. That's why I'm like it's not about. replacing. It's like adding an. additional person to your life. But it. does feel like you kind of have to. decide that you want to date. And I. don't know if you're there yet. I don't. think I am there yet. It really makes me. nervous. But I also think it makes me. nervous just cuz all the stuff I've been. through. Like I'm more it's probably.

mainly yes about my kids is the number. one. But then the next thing is like gh. it's just so scary. How do you know that. that's not going to happen again? Do you. ever think about like if you weren't. famous, if you weren't who you were, like what your life would be like? Oh, all the time. And like what is that. image in your head? I think I would. because I've always loved kids. I think. I would definitely be doing something. with kids. I wanted to be um a school. teacher or some sort of educator for. kids. Not that I probably should be.

doing that um but I always wanted to do. something like that with kids and. otherwise just like be at home with my. family. I mean, it's just so interesting. because I feel like you get to have a. lot of opportunities because of who you. are, but then I imagine it does make. dating just distinctly harder. I think. so. Yes. I mean, but then I see so many. other people doing it or like they're. just so seamlessly from one relationship. to the next. I'm like, how how do they. do this? I think most people are having. a hard time. Like I feel like if you.

took the temperature on dating right. now, there's a dating crisis. And why do. you think that is? I feel like there's. too many options and people are treating. each other like they're disposable. Like, oh, I went on a date with this. girl. I didn't text her back. She got. mad. Oh, I'll just match with someone. else. Like, I just don't think that. we're really valuing each other. And I'm. also just hearing like a lot of people. that are so focused on career that I. think it's great to be focused on. career. I'm focused on career. You're. focused on career, but it's like you. also need to make time for relationships.

if that's something that you're looking. for, right? And so, yeah, you know, you. mentioned the thing around like you. didn't say exactly like this, but it's. like you'll probably make more money. than the person that you date, but then. you still want that traditional. relationship. I think a lot of people. are struggling with that right now. because the majority of college. graduates are women. Many women are. making more than the men that they're. dating. And I think that we haven't. totally caught up to that. And so, it's. like it can feel very emasculating for. the man and for the woman. They're like,

I want them to take me out, but I make. more than them. And I don't think people. have figured out how to navigate that. But I also think that there is not all. women, but I've noticed from some of my. friend groups that some women. like to hold that they are making more. as a power move. Where for me, I think I. feel like I don't like I don't want to. do that because I would hate if someone. did that to me. Yeah. And I like if we. go out like there's certain things you.

could do. either if you have you want to. have a joint credit card or even just. like pass the credit card on to your man. before that's what I've heard that's. what I've heard my my friend is like a. personal finance guy Ramit Sati and he. was saying how like this couple that he. was coaching the woman would give the. guy she was dating her credit card. before the date because she wanted to. have that experience of him putting the. credit card out even though it was hers. and like part of me is like that's so. silly you're playing pretend and the. other part is like no you're getting. what you want but you're still covering.

ing it. And I think a mistake that. people make in modern dating is trying. to find their personality twin. And then. often times like if you're life of the. party, you don't need another life of. the party person. Like two of you in the. room, same room is too much. And I think. people really need to think about. finding your compliment. Yeah. And so I. wonder for you like what that looks. like. So the first thing I would want in. any relationship is to feel safe. I. think especi like now the older I am. I. turned 40 this year and I feel like.

I'm over like I don't want to be worried. about what you're doing and I don't know. if that's just like a forever feeling. but I don't think so. I think that most. people feel like secure in their. relationships and they're like, "No, we're good." And and also I'm so busy. like I'm not I don't have time to worry. about people except my kids. Um safe, but I love to laugh and I like to be. silly and just light-hearted and dance. around my house. Like I like someone.

that. can be a homebody but also be really. lively within the home. Like I don't. want you to be a recluse but you're some. Debbie Downer. Yeah. But I don't mind a. homebody, but like let's dance or we. could have people over. I just don't. like to be out on the town. Yeah. But. within my home, I'll do whatever you. want to do. I love that. It's like life. of the party, but the party is your. house. Yes. Exactly. That's great. You. know that feeling when you finally made. it to your hotel after a long day of.

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came from Khloe to get started and see. what you've been missing. That's. foratravel.com/cloey and let us know you. came from Khloe. I have this question I. like to ask people. Who is your. penthouse person? So a penthouse person. is like someone in your life who really. raises your energy when you walk away. from them. There's pep in your step. You. love being around them. But the opposite. sex. Um no, this can be a friend. And. then a basement person is someone like. where you walk away and you're kind of. like I feel worse about myself. Like I. don't know what it is. I feel a little.

anxious. You don't have to tell me who. your basement person is, but you can. think of someone. But can you think of. someone who's your penthouse person. where you just feel very energized by. being with them? All my siblings and my. mom. Like how do you feel when you're. around them? Well, depend I would say. 90% of the time if we're not like. feuding or something like that. But I. when I see them I get like really smiley. and excited to see them and giddy and. most of my like we're very supportive. and we're always encoura like we're each. other's cheerleaders. So like I just saw.

my sister Kylie when I walked in here. and she was like oh I'm so excited for. today for you and like we were just like. pumping each other up and that made me. feel really good. I was like, "Yes, I'm. going to hang out with Logan." Like, it's going to be great, but it felt. good. Where, you know, I don't know. She. doesn't. Nobody takes me down sibling. wise. So, let's say that Kylie is your. penthouse person. It's like in dating, I. think a lot of times people come in with. this checklist, especially as they get. older, the list gets longer. Must be. this tall, must have this job, must have.

this type of family. But instead, I. really encourage people to think about. what side of you does that person bring. out and how do you feel around them? So, if you're like Kylie or some of my other. siblings are my penthouse people, when. I'm around someone, I want them to bring. out that confident, smiley side of me. And I think that that shift really helps. people because they sort of stop paying. attention to what's on paper and their. resume and they really pay attention to. how do I feel around them. And I think. that's something that people have just.

lost sight of. Like paying attention to. how you feel in your body, I think is so. underrated. Right? Like I remember when. I was interviewing at two different. companies and it was so easy to say, "Well, this company will give me this. perks and this company will give me that. perk." But then when I actually thought. about like how I felt in those. interviews, it was so obvious which. company I should work for. I think we. have a hard time really ignoring those. shinier on paper traits and really. paying attention to what's my penthouse. person and what's my penthouse job and.

things like that. It's interesting you. say that because in terms of work, I've. done that the older I've gotten. I've. had job opportunities with certain. people and I'm like honestly that person. makes me feel so bad about myself and. not all money is good money. I just I. would rather say no and move on and I. feel like God will bless me with. something else. And normally, I would. say actually every time I've done that, I've been I don't know if the term is.

rewarded, but I've been blessed with. something better and with so much more. of an amazing person that owns that. company or whatnot. And so in that. regard, I do think I listen to myself. and I agree with you completely. But. with dating, for me at least, I think either I meet someone and I. could tell. probably in the beginning like I don't. want to hang out with this person again. or or sure but don't you think it takes.

a minute to really know how you're. feeling on the inside cuz sometimes the. honeymoon stage is oh definitely so. blissful I mean sort of my unofficial. motto is the spark and that's really. based on this idea that so many of the. people that I would coach would come to. me and say I met this guy he was great. we had a good time I'm never going to. see him again why and then I would say. why and they would I just didn't feel. the spark. And so it was like this. obsession with instant chemistry and. fireworks and feeling like I'll know it.

when I see it. And I think that that. actually holds people back. And so many. of the best relationships that I've. experienced that other people are in. really have this slow burn feeling where. it develops over time. Well, speaking of. that, isn't that similar to what you. went through with your husband? Yeah. Exactly. Yes. I definitely think that. I'm blessed with a slowburn. relationship. So, you know, it's interesting. I work. at a dating app, but my husband and I. first met in college and we just had a.

random lunch one day and then seven. years later we were both working at. Google and he said hi and then I had. this lunch for people who went to. Harvard who worked at Google and we sort. of just became friends. But at the same. time, I was chasing this other guy that. I had met at Burning Man. Have you ever. been to Burning Man? I haven't, but I. know all about it. You know all about. it? Yeah. So, it's like of course you. like fall in love at Bernie man and. everything's like so intense and so it's. like met this great guy but was not. thinking about him. I was really chasing.

this guy from Bernie man. And when I. look back I have so much empathy for. that version of myself but I really was. in pain where when you really really. like someone and they don't like you. back instead of just accepting it I just. went through all these mental hoops to. try to get him to like me. And it's like. yeah I feel sad about it. It's like, how. can I convince this person that I'm. worthy? How can. I make this person fall for me instead. of the advice that I would give that.

person now, which is if they're not. choosing you, then they're not the right. person for you. I think we've all done. that though. We've all sang for our. supper, if you will. And it's sucks. Yeah, it really sucks cuz you're like, "Oh, I'm not good enough." Instead of. like, "We're not the right match." And. like, "How can I prove I'm good enough?". like this person is now the person who. can evaluate me. So then I was so upset. about this whole situation with this guy. from Burning Man. I remember like crying. on my friend's couch and then he was. like, you know, I really think you.

should see a dating coach. And then I. ended up seeing my own coach. Wow. And. so this was before I did like the kind. of work I do now. And this woman really. helped me understand what I wanted in a. relationship and how I wanted someone to. make me feel. And when I thought about. how I wanted someone to make me feel, you know, it was desired and valued and. secure, I realized I felt the opposite. with this Burning Man guy. He made me. feel insecure and not valued. But this. guy at work who had been tutoring me in.

this statistical programming language. was so funny. He made me feel those. things. And it was kind of like, how. familiar are you with the movie. Clueless? Obviously. Okay. Very. So, you. know, like towards the end of the movie, she's like walking down, I feel like. she's shopping somewhere in LA and then. she like is near um some sort of. fountain and she's like, "Oh my god, like it's him. It's been him." Like I. kind of had that moment where I was. like, "It's this guy from work. He makes. me feel these ways." And so, you know, we started hang out a little bit more.

and then eventually I was like, "Hey, I. don't have plans on Friday. You should. ask me out." Which is I asked him. out. Yeah. And then that really became. our love story. And that was 10 years. ago. And so I feel like I have been chasing. these sparky guys who were, you know, so. dynamic and charismatic and as soon as. you meet them, you want to be around. them more. But instead, I married this. slowburn guy who I feel like not. everyone else saw how special he was. But 10 years later, I'm like, I feel. like I won the lottery. And you did. And.

I'm sure everyone is like, we need the. slowburn guy, right? But I I want to. train people to look for the slow burn. because like the spark is so attractive. and I feel like there's all these myths. of the spark. Like one is that if it's. the right person, you'll feel instant. chemistry and that's just not true. Sometimes you have to get to know. someone more. I'm sure you have people. like this in your life where every time. you see them, you like them more and. more because they open up. Yes. Versus. some people are super sparky when you.

meet them and you're like, "Oh, I really. felt something with that guy." and then. your friend's like, "I really felt. something with that guy, too." It's. like, "No, that guy is just really. sparky." And it can feel confusing. And. sometimes that spark is actually anxiety. and alarm bells that we mistake for. butterflies, right? And then the third. myth is that if you have a spark at the. beginning, then it's going to be a great. long-term relationship. And that's not. true. Think about how many relationships. start with a spark and then burn out. really quickly. Yes. And a lot of people. that I've met, they stay with the wrong.

person because they met the right way. What do you mean by that? It's like. people are just so obsessed with the. love story. Got it. Like I was supposed. to get on this flight, but I missed it. and then he was in line with me at TSA. and if I had made that flight. And it's. like they love telling that story and. they're ready to tell that story in. their vows, but then they reject the. fact that like this relationship's. actually not that good. And I think. like, you know, I love Disney movies, I. love romcoms, but they do create this. idea that the how you met is so.

important. And if you're with someone. for 50 years, the day that you meet is. 0.0055% of your total time together, so. who cares how you met? You can meet in. an unromantic way and have a very. romantic relationship. Do you feel like. you're guilty of falling for the spark? Yes. Like what does it feel like for. you? Well, I I got married in 30 days of. meeting my meeting my first husband. Um,

we met and then I actually when he. proposed we got married nine days later. So, um, yes, guilty. Yeah. Take me to. jail. Um, but I agree. It's you don't. know someone. I I also wouldn't change. it. I also love that experience and it. was one of like the best experiences of. my life and I loved that but I don't. think I'll never say never but I don't. think I would ever do that again. I hope. not. Um.

because you really don't know the. person. And yes, the spark does it goes. fast. As fast as it started, it can also. dwindle just as quickly. But I feel like with. others, I've done both. I've taken some. time, but I've. also gone head first. I do feel my. history is probably more of a head first. type of gal. So, what I've done. intentionally this time is taken a break.

from dating. And I really wanted to work. on myself and focus on my kids, but also. I felt like I was way too fragile of a. person. And I lost so much of who I was. I lost my confidence and so many layers. of myself that I had years ago. And so, I really wanted to get that version of. myself back. Maybe, you know, the 4.0 0 version, whatever you want to. call it. What? Yeah. What number are we. on for my 40? That's why I was at the. 4.0 version. But I really wanted to get.

the more mature, different version, but. the better version of myself. And so. intentionally, I wasn't dating cuz it's. so easy to be an avoidant and distract. and hang out with men cuz that feeling. feels good. It does. And just to have. the love and I've been there and I've. done that, but it hasn't worked out. great for me in the past. That's why. this time I wanted to try something. different. Um, and I really like I like. where I am right now in my life. I. really do. But I do know I I believe in.

love. I believe in the hap happily ever. after. I do I'm not cynical. I do think. someone's out there for me. I just don't. know if right now is my time. And it. could be fear. It could be that I'm. avoiding getting back into that dating. pool. But it's just where I'm. comfortable right now. Well, it's so. interesting cuz I almost wonder if you. overcorrected if you're like, "All. right, 2.0 version of myself jumped head. first into relationship. So 4.0 version.

needs to really slow down, but perhaps. you've slowed down too much because if. we're allowed to talk about your quiz. results." Oh, tell me. Yeah. So you your. quiz results suggested that you are a. hesitator. Okay. And so a hesitator is. someone who's not putting themselves out. there in dating because they feel like, "Oh, I'm not 100% who I want to be yet, and I want to work on myself more and. then I'll be ready to date." And for. you, it might be, I want to just really. focus on motherhood in this time or this.

just isn't the moment. And so for the. hesitator, it's like they have an. identity of I'm not a dater right now. That's spot on. 100%. I don't put myself. out there. I haven't been on one date. like not one three years. Like I don't. Yes. Like I don't even think I'm. looking. I'm not interacting with the. opposite sex. Like unless you're already. in my life, a friend of mine, right? But. I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no. Closed. for business. Don't talk to me." If you. met a great guy and I truly don't know.

how you're meeting strangers, like would. you feel open to it? You're like danger. I know. Stranger danger. I And what's. crazy is I tell myself or my friends. when they ask me, "Are you open to it?". But I'm like, "Yes, I'm open to it, but. where am I?" Like, if I'm Yeah. really. laying it out there, I don't even go. anywhere, I think, to be open to it. Okay. So, this I was thinking before our. conversation like, "Where would you meet. people?" It's like, "You're not going to. be on an app." I don't think that So, people always ask me if I'm on Riot.

It's like a application only. It does. tend to attract like certain celebrities. or athletes, but it's like I just I. can't really see you with where you are. in life like being on an app. I can't. either. Yeah. And so like Okay, this. idea just like popped into my head. Okay. Okay. Imagine if you're like. two weekdays a month, I'm going to have. a dinner party in my house and I'm going. to ask friends to bring random people, guys, like men and women. Like not like.

putting pressure on it, not making it. into a dating show. And then just. putting yourself in situations where. you're meeting more people, like safe. people that someone's vouching for and. it's not a one-on-one date where you. feel like, okay, like am I going to. introduce them to my kids or this is. awkward that I have a man over, but just. exposing yourself to more new people in. a safe way where you can see how they. interact with you and other people and. then through that maybe just like. expanding your network and one of those. people you'll have a crush on. So what's. crazy is I say that all the time. Like I.

used to do taco Tuesdays like every week. and it was called Tattletree Tuesdays. cuz I was like whoever comes and if you. guys want to smooch in the corner like. nobody's like who cares. It was just. what I did before kids and um but my. friends were like when are you doing. Taco Tuesdays again? I'm like it's a. different version. But it wasn't like. anything wild. It was just fun and. everyone had their phone. Like we all. left our phones at the door and it was. just playing games. And I always say, "Let's do that." And people bring other.

people, but I never follow through. That's what I feel like you need because. you're just not going to be meeting. people out and about. Most of the things. that I would tell most people do not. apply to you. But I think that if you. can do it within your house, you feel. safe. You're create curating the. environment and then people are bringing. people to meet you both as friends and. potential partners. I think it's kind of. a way to slow roll into it. And I, as. much as I don't trust a lot of people, I.

really like talking with people. Like I. find other people fascinating. So even. just doesn't have to be on a romantic. level. I do enjoy like I find human. behavior fascinating. I really do. And I. just like to engage with other people. And imagine so, okay, like a while ago. my friend and I did these dinners called. intrigued where like imagine, well, this. is more my life than your life. You're. at a conference and you meet someone and. you want to see them again, but it's. like too forward to say, "Do you want to. get a drink?" And you're not ready to. hang out oneon-one, but then you text.

them and you say like, "I find you. intriguing. I'm going to bring you to. this intrigue dinner with other people. that we find intriguing." So, you're. already like very flattered and then you. come and you already have a good. impression of everyone cuz you're like, "They're all so intriguing." And then. you meet and you just have this. interesting conversation. I love that. like I can just see you or you and a. friend or you and a family member doing. that and it's a way to bring what we. call weak ties into your life. So it's. like you know who your own small circle. knows but who are like the next level.

who's the next layer and how can you. bring like new people and new energy. into your life in a way that feels safe. You're probably at your best in your. house not when you're like you know. worrying about paparazzi or something. It's like, how can you be the most. comfortable, authentic version of Chloe. and bring people in and see like, do. they fit in my home? Does this feel. comfortable? No, I love that. And I'm. always like, "It's getting late. Got to. go home." But when I'm at home, I'm. like, "Oh, I'm fine. I don't know what. I'm getting home, too." Like, I just.

like to be I think that's a cool way to. like ease yourself back into the waters. because for my hesitators, the people. who get that on the quiz, I'm like, you. kind of have an identity of I'm not. dating. and then it's hard to welcome. new romantic energy into your life. Whereas if you say I'm open to dating, you know, I haven't dated in a while, but I'm open to it. I do think that. energetically things change because. right now if you just think I'm not. dating, I feel like things won't change. And do you think there's anything wrong? Let's just say I do this and I'm like,

uh, I don't think I'm there yet, let's. say. Do you think there's anything wrong. with someone taking like 5 years off of. any romantic physical t like any sort of. dating let's say I don't have rules. around like do or don't take time off. It really depends what your goals are. Like if your goal is to find someone and. to have that companion then I would say. why put a false amount of time on it.

where you have to wait to date. But if. you really tell me like I just want to. focus on my kids and like I know this is. what I want. Then I would say take all. the time you need. But for hesitators I. often just like to say to them like. imagine that a year from now like you. were in this great relationship like. tell me about waking up in the morning. Tell me about drinking coffee with this. person. And they often get really. excited about that possibility. See that. doesn't make me excited right now. I get. anxious thinking of that. Like I get up. at 5. I have things to do. like you're.

freaking me out. But then but like no no. no that's good. I mean you may not want. it but it's like what are the moments. where you're like it would be great to. have somebody to tell about my day. It. would be great. to share this moment with someone. to be honest. Like cuz the evenings. everyone's going to think I'm nuts cuz. in the evenings I'm like h thank god my. kids are asleep. I have an hour on TV. and then like I just like also my quiet.

time. The moments are. when there's a vacation or if I would. like every now and again maybe to go to. like a dinner with someone or just do an. activity with somebody else. But I don't. mind being the only single one too when. people are I'm not that person that's. like I'm the third wheel. I'm like hell. yeah I'm the third wheel. Like I find. that I'm not insecure about that stuff. But then I would say when I social. media, if I'm like scrolling and I'm.

seeing, you know, people that have been. married 50 years or when they're really. old, that's when I'm like, I can't be. I'm not going to be alone when I'm. really old. I my my mom always says when. my kids are gone, I'm really going to be. like, damn, I wish I had someone and. feel really alone cuz I put so much into. my kids. But I don't know. I mean, what. I'm hearing from you is that your life. is just so full that you feel really. happy most of the time with the way.

things are. There's nothing missing. And. then in fact, when you have the solo. time, it's kind of just a chance to. recharge. So, you don't see a moment. where you're like, I need a man here or. like insert another human there. The. only time I did was during the fires and. I was like, I'm evacuating and with two. kids and I had to get my daughters, two. cats and but my brother lives right down. the street and I'm like come over and. he's helping me load my car. So that's really the only time I was. like I wish I had someone even just.

because I'm you know stone cold to my. kids like oh everything's fine and I'm. acting I wish I had someone even next to. me like what the are we going to be fine. like that where I'm just doing it by. myself. um and it's more an internal I wish I. did have a partner I think when. tragedies arise but how often is that. well what I was going to say is like. you're doing great you don't need. someone else. But the thing about. relationships is I feel like a lot of. the beautiful ones are like many years.

of being together. And so it's sort of. like maybe that's something where you. want to start it now so that you can. grow together and grow old together. But. what I'm hearing you say is like you. don't need someone right now. And in. that case, I would say like maybe wait. until you feel like you really have. space for it. You know, we always talk about. relationship red flags, the things to. avoid. But what if we flipped that and. focused on green flags instead? The. signs that tell us a friendship or.

relationship is actually healthy, supportive, and worth investing in. If. you're not sure what those green flags. look like, therapy can help. It's a. great way to recognize what makes a. relationship strong. Practice those. healthy behaviors, and even embody that. green flag energy yourself. Whether. you're dating, married, strengthening. friendships, or just working on you, it's time to build relationships that. love you back. Therapy has been a. gamecher for so many people, not just. for navigating challenges, but for.

learning positive coping skills, setting. boundaries, and becoming the best. version of yourself. Therapy isn't just. for major life crisis. It's about. growth, self-awareness, and building the. life and the relationships that you. actually want. That's where Better Help. comes in. It's an affordable, fully. online therapy platform that's helped. over 5 million people worldwide connect. with licensed professionals. With a. diverse network of over 30,000. credentialed therapists, you can find. someone who truly gets you. And if it's.

not the right fit, you can switch. therapists anytime at no extra cost. So, if you're ready to start recognizing. your relationship green flags, give. BetterHel a try. Visit. betterhelp.com/clo today to get 10% off. of your first month. That's betterhelp. hp.com/clo. Take the step because the. best relationships start with a better. you. I do like your idea about having people. come over and I don't think there's any.

harm in that either way. like cuz I do. like people and I think it would add a. little more life to my I just imagine. being a celebrity can be very isolating. It is cuz everyone you meet you have to. say like what do they want from me and. like are they on the payroll and like. all this stuff and it's like if you can. create a space where academics are. coming into your life or like somebody's. really interesting artist friend just. expanding your network a little bit more. to expose yourself to new people. I. think that that's where a connection is.

going to come from. It's like that's why. you want to have this podcast, right? Because you're trying to like meet new. people and have deep conversations. It's. like you could have a partner where. they're saying to you, "Oh my goodness, let me tell you about this science. experiment that I just read about and. the crazy stuff happening with quantum. computing." And you'd be like, "Cool. I. didn't know about that." It's like I. think that right now when you imagine. relationship, you said it gave you. anxiety cuz you're like, "I wake up at. 5:00. I have things to do." It's like. think you're imagining what it would. take away from you, which maybe is like. time, freedom, things with your kids,

but I also want you to think about what. it would give to you. I know. I need to. think more positively in that aspect. I. really do. I don't want to push you if. you don't feel like you're ready for it. now, but I do think that relationships. in general, the research shows, make. people happier, make people healthier. And I think that we think about. financial fitness and we think about. mental health and we think about. physical fitness, but there's also. social fitness. And I think that there's. something about love relationships. that's really special. And I love like.

that feeling of being in love. I think. it's the most beautiful thing. And. people are always so surprised when I. say how much I believe in love and like. that I know I'm going to be married. again one day and have my happily ever. after. I don't know why people expect me. to be really cynical and like love, but. I'm not. I think it's amazing. Well, it's like maybe you're a romantic who's. just fallen head over heels a few times. and is like now I need to hold myself. back and then it's kind of like what's.

the in between that feels good for you. and 4.0. You know what I think it is? I. don't know if I trust myself anymore. Yeah. And before I don't think I. questioned my my picking. Mhm. What does. not trusting yourself mean? Well, my. track record hasn't been great, but in a. pretty volatile, traumatic Yeah. way. Not violent like that, but just it's so. Yeah. It's really crashed and burned. that I'm like, "Okay, what what did I.

not see?" There was a lot of red flags. in hindsight, but at the time I was. like, "Oh, everything looks green to me. Let's go." I think that's pretty common. Like people who stop trusting their. guts, who are like, "Those red flags. were waving in my face and I didn't. notice them." Then they pull themselves. back because they're like, "I can't. trust my instincts." But I think there's. another way to look at it or reframe, which is I'm going to get myself more. dating experience so that I get better. at it. And I think dating really is a. skill and that you can get better at it. over time. But the only way to get.

better at dating is by dating. I also. agree with what you're saying that we. are exposed to too much. And you were. saying earlier like people are more not. people think people are more disposable. And I think relationships lasted so much. longer back in the day because even if. somebody did something that was not uh. respectful in their relationship. probably you were never going to know.

about it. What you don't know doesn't. hurt you. Like think like if you were, you know how people like like someone. else's photo or like will be viewing. someone's page? That's the same thing if. a guy was like, "Oh, that waitress is. hot." But like you wouldn't know. There's truly a lot more ways to cheat. now, right? Like with texting, with. texting, with Only Fans. It's like. actually just the amount of different. ways that you could sort of be disloyal. to someone having it has to be that. severe.

and rightfully so like why are you on. that girl's page and she'll break up. with the. with his friends like oh that girl's hot. you got away with it and because that. your girlfriend or wife wouldn't know. about it so it could be that minor but. now people do discard people so easily. but if those are your boundaries they're. your boundaries but I do think social. media is a very very tricky place. And.

it really is. It lets And you're also. fantasizing because how we had Disney. movies, they now have you follow these. couples on Instagram and you're like, "Oh, it's this fairy tale. Look how. beautiful." And behind the scenes, they're miserable and they hate each. other. One of my favorite things about. my husband is that he doesn't use social. media at all. Like, isn't that so sexy? I love that because he doesn't need. other people to tell him his worth. Yes. and he's not keeping track of other. people and comparing and desparing. I. think if it wasn't for my job, I.

wouldn't have social media cuz I I don't. want you chiming in on something about. me or be private. It's hard to perform. I think it's like hard. Like this is. something I'm really studying with Jenzi. is like this idea of like surveillance. culture and like if you live in public. like I think back to high school and. like mistakes that I made and it's like. if somebody had been shooting an. Instagram story at the time like and I. had been in the background like who. knows what would have happened but like. I didn't think about being surveiled and.

I feel like just reading between the. lines of some of the stuff that I do. when I interview Jenz daters there's. like a sense that you're always being. watched. I think people are just more. uptight now and it's like Jenzie is. losing their virginity later. They're. not drinking as much. They're not. getting their driver's license as often. Like I think that it's really important. to take risks and to be open to. rejection. And I think the lack of. risk-taking behavior in some ways it's. great like less drinking and driving, but I'm also worried, right? And I.

didn't I know my nephew and his group of. friends I've noticed that they push off. the driver's permit. Like why? Like when. I was able to get my license actually. I'm a bad example of this cuz I was. really afraid of getting my license but. like most people that weren't me were. getting their license as soon as they. could. Oh, I was stealing cars at 14. I. needed to drive. So with your nephew, what do you think's going on? Well, I. also think because like of Ubers, those. things that are easier for them and. they're like, "Well, why do I need to.

take this test?" I do think it's that. which sort of that scares me more than. having my kid drive cuz I'm like, "Who's. this stranger driving you around?" Yeah. So, I think it's that, but it could also be like a fear of. rejection or I'm going to fail this. It's too much pressure. I don't know. But I I also notice the uh not drinking. thing, but I also noticed that younger. kids are or the Gen Z kids are so much. more into health and fitness and like.

drinking water and what's artificial and. I'm like I I've never heard of water. until like last year to I'm the same. I'm like what the hell was the sparkling. water? I'm like my daughter's six and. all of my nieces drink sparkling water. I'm like boo. I know. What are the um. results on your quiz? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I. can go through all that. Yes, I would. love to know about that. Okay. So, when. I have coached a lot of different. people, I noticed that even though. they're different people from different. walks of life, they had one thing in.

common, which was unrealistic. expectations. And so, I designed this. framework called the three dating. tendencies. So, you took that quiz and. people can take it on my website. So, the first one, and it's really easy. It's takes 10 minutes. Yeah. So, the. first one is the romanticizer, which is. actually what I thought you were going. to be. So, the romanticizer is the. person who's like, "There's a soulmate. out there for me. There's one person. When I meet them, I'll know they're very. focused on the we met." Okay? And what.

happens to romanticizers is often when. they meet someone who's not in the. package that they expected or when the. relationship hits that inevitable rough. spot, they think, "Oh, this must not be. my person because if it was my soulmate, it would be easier than this." So the. homework for the romanticizer is to. understand that of course relationships. are hard and that it doesn't matter how. you met, it matters that you met. M and. then the second type which is a lot of. what I deal with with CEOs and people in. New York in the Bay Area is maximizers.

Okay, I'm sure you know a lot of people. like this. They have unrealistic. expectations of their partner. So they. think they come to my house with. spreadsheets and they're like I want the. looks of this girl, the ambition of this. girl, the family of this girl, like find. me someone like that. And they're always. searching for the perfect person. And. they feel like, oh, I'm close, but if I. found this girl, I want to find someone. even better. Oh gosh. And so they feel. like there's someone perfect out there. instead of understanding that you could. make it work with many people. It's. about choosing someone great and.

investing in that and that really great. relationships are built. They're not. discovered. And so how can you truly. find someone great and build it versus. just trying to like trade up all the. time, right? And then the third type, which is what you were on the quiz, is. the hesitator. And they have unrealistic. expectations of themselves. So, they're. often feeling like, I'm not ready to. date yet, or I'm not exactly who I want. to be, or you know, when my kids are in. school, I'll be ready to date when I. clean up my apartment. Yeah. When I get.

a different job, when I have more time. And so, they are creating these hurdles. of I can't date until this. And then. once they kind of overcome that hurdle, they move the goalpost and it's another. one. And so for hesitators, a lot of the. work is choosing a date, choosing a. deadline, and saying, "I'm going to. start dating, having an identity around. being a dater, being open to dating, and. really just having some accountability.". So, it's like, can you bring back Taco. Tuesdays? Can one of your siblings or.

one of your friends be like, "Chloe, we're doing this. Doesn't have to be. every Tuesday, but just once a month, we're going to do Taco Tuesday. It's. going to be really fun. It's going to. feel safe." and like just creating an. environment where you're more open to. people entering your life. And I feel. like I I can commit to a once a month. taco Tuesday, right? I feel like that's. not too crazy. I mean, doesn't that. sound fun? I want to eat tacos on. Tuesdays. Like, that sounds great. And. having it be something that you're. looking forward to instead of something. with like a lot of pressure, a lot of.

sacrifices around it. It's like you're. bringing into your home people that you. love and then also a few new people. It's like sprinkling them in. Yeah. I. love that. Do you think at different. parts in someone's life they can change? Cuz I feel like I used to be the. romanticizer and now I'm the. procrastinator. I definitely think. people can change. Like there's this. concept from the Harvard psychologist. Daniel Gilbert called the end of history. illusion. So if you say to somebody.

who's 30, how much did you change in the. last 10 years? They'll say, so much. I'm. totally different. Then you say, "How. much will you change in the next 10. years?" And they'll say, "Not much. I'm. done changing." And so it's like people. actually change a lot, but their. projection is that they won't change. that much. And so I think if we just all. embrace the fact that we're growing. changing people, I think it helps us. understand each other and ourselves more. and also be excited. And so I think the. fact that you're different than you used. to be is great. And there's a lot of. growth in there. Well, now um now that.

you have a baby, Yeah. Uh, how old is. she? She's 14 months. 14 months. Do you. think because you had a challenging end. of your pregnancy that you have even so. much more gratitude that you get to hold. her and snuggle her every day? Yeah. I. mean, I think when I look about when I. look around and see the stories about. motherhood, like this is what I'd say. I'd say pregnancy and labor are harder. than people talk about. Maybe women.

don't want to freak other women out, but. I think it actually is like a scary. thing. Like women are still dying in. childbirth. And so I kind of feel like. many moms that I've talked to are like, "Yeah, that was way more real than I. expected." But I think motherhood is so. much greater than people talk about. I. had an easy pregnancy. Like I I don't. know how most people feel, but I. actually liked being pregnant. I felt. like it kind of like I don't even know. how like evened me out. like like not.

getting my period. I shot my TV show. when I was pregnant. Like I I happened. to really like it. And then like one day. I just noticed like oh my hands are. swelling and I called the doctor and I. you know I spoke to the nurse and she. was like here are the signs of. preeacclampsia. It's like you know. swelling in your extremities, headaches, some blurriness or floaters in your eyes. like pain like above your stomach like. under your rib cage. and I was like, "Okay, well, I don't really have those.".

And then like a week later, I just. wasn't feeling well and I was in the. shower and I started going through the. symptoms and it was kind of like. everything was flashing before my eyes. because I was like, "Wait, I do have. floaters right now. I do have this pain. in my stomach." And like as I was in the. shower, I started like saying this thing. over and over my head, which was like, "I'm going to get out of the shower and. say to my husband like, "I don't mean to. freak you out, but I think we have to. call the nurse's hotline." Wow. like and. then you know I got out of a shower I. told him they said take your blood.

pressure and it was like through the. roof and we were supposed to go to the. ballet that night and he was like oh I. don't want to cross like the bridge to. San Francisco like where I was supposed. to give birth like let's just go to the. local Berkeley hospital so we're like. okay fine so we just went there and then. like all of a sudden like everything. moved so quickly they were like you have. severe preeacclampsia you're admitted to. this hospital you're not allowed to. leave like you are now a patient of this. hospital and like you will be and how. far along were I was 32 weeks. Oh my. gosh. Yeah. So they were like, "You're.

not going to leave this hospital. Like. you the latest that you would give birth. is in 2 weeks." So then just like. everything started happening really fast. and this is like such like a 2023 like. tech moment. My husband works in tech, but like I didn't really know how bad. things were until my husband went home. to get some stuff and he was like, "Send. me the master password for your one. password." Like basically for my. password manager. And I was like, "Am I. going to die?" like why do you need my. master password? Oh my god, I love him. Yeah, he's really funny. And so yeah,

basically like, you know, then things. started to look better, but they woke me. up. So I went to the hospital at 400. p.m. And then they woke me up the next. morning at 3:00 a.m. and they're like, "Your body is shutting down. You now. have help syndrome. Like the only cure. for this is syndrome." It's basically. like a worse version of preeacclampsia. It's like Yeah. It's very dangerous. And. so they were like, "You need to give. birth right now." So, like I had an. emergency C-section at 32 weeks and it. was so hard and she was in the NICU for.

6 weeks and I felt like my husband just. like was my brain for 2 months. Like I. was a body that would move from my bed. to the hospital to visit my daughter, but I wasn't making decisions. I the the. doctors would come talk to us and it was. like I couldn't even understand what. they were saying. And like he just. handled all the decisions. And it's like. when people are looking for someone to. be with, I think they say like who's fun. like who am I attracted to? Like who do. my friends like? It's like these are the. times. Yes. It's like who is going to.

talk to the doctor on your behalf when. you don't have a brain and your child is. in the NICU, right? I agree. That's such. a beautiful story and thank you so much. for sharing that. My sister Kim had. preeclampsia and I remember at the none. of us I think ever heard of it before. My mom had six somewhat easy pregnancies. and so did Courtney. Um, and I just. remember like what I flash back to is. like this was like the craze of tabloids. and everyone making fun of my sister for.

like her swollen big feet in high heels. and her hands. And she's like, "I'm. pregnant. Isn't this normal?" But she. really, none of us knew. She did have pretty fat feet, but like. we thought that was what happens in. pregnancy. We didn't know any different. But just like literally I can Google it. now and you'll see all these post and. you're like what? And the doctor tell. her like that's what's so hard is I'm. like I am an educated person. I have. access to great medical care. But like I.

barely knew what preeacclampsia was. I. had not read a single book about. pregnancy, about having a kid. I was. like, that's what January is for and. like she came in December. So like how. did I not know what preeacclampsia was? And that's one of those things where I'm. just like I do hope that people see this. and like know what those symptoms are. Like get a blood pressure machine to. check it at home. Like that was one. thing that was helpful for us. And I. wish I checked my blood pressure before. No, but like you said, you didn't know.

about it. And if it weren't for Kim's. experience, I don't think I would have. known about it probably until this. conversation. I don't think people talk. about it enough. Um, that was one thing. that I had my son via surrogate and I do. speak about my experience. It's not all. daisies and rainbows with him. And you. know, I sometimes I fight myself with. that because I don't ever want to make. him feel bad the older he gets. But I. also feel like people should hear this.

side cuz you only hear one really great. side. And I remember I felt like a. really bad human being because I was not. feeling the way that I would only read. about or hear about. Yeah. I wish there. was like more education about some of. this stuff. Well, you're doing that. right now. You really are. Just people. will listen or watch and they will hear. your story and I hope nobody has that, but if they have any of these symptoms, at least go get it checked. It never.

hurts to get things checked. Well, Logan, I can sit and chat with you all. day. This was so nice. I'm definitely. going to start my Taco Tuesdays monthly. once a month. But baby steps are still. steps. And yeah, just thank you for. chatting with me. I really think this is. going to be so helpful for so many. people. Thank you. Yes. Thank you for. the opportunity to chat and to get to. know you and to share some of these. messages with more people. Thank you, Logan.