Born Into One of the Worst Cults in History ft. Daniella Mestyanek Young | Khloé In Wonder Land

When did you start realizing this isn't  normal? We were trafficked in front of. the whole world. Let's talk about cults.  I'm always knitting. Just go with it. I'm. watching the news and it's saying children of  God cult. Children of God cult. And I was like, you know, performance is really brilliant  for trafficking children. You don't think, are they getting paid? Are they being  abused? Oh, you're going to go to hell. if you don't grow up and stay in the family.  Okay, hell's going to suck. Love bombing is. how you get drawn into a cult. I've been in  a one-on-one cult. Then if you're hearing.

a story of the girl who grew up in one of the  worst cults and you're relating, that's a cult. So when I was a lieutenant, the  battle captain in charge had me. at a Kardashian update brief to the  end. You've got to be kidding. To the. end of every intelligence briefing. Oh  my god. Like, okay. Military, who knew? Okay. So, girl, I feel like we have so much to  talk about. I definitely had my mouth on the.

floor. I was on like just a bunch of different  emotions doing my research about you and it's. really inspiring that you're standing and positive  and here today and that you're so willing and open. to be on my podcast with me and to talk about your  journey. So, thank you for being here. Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me. I would love if  you can talk a little bit about your childhood.

and how you were raised. I want to sort of set the  stage for the listeners and viewers out there. So. I was born third generation into the children of  God. So my grandfather joined this cult in the 70s. and the children of God is one of these cults that  came out of the late 60s early 70s. had a lot to. do with blowback from the civil rights movement.  We just had a lot of cults popping up at that. time. So my grandfather joined in the 70s. My mom  was one of the first children born in. And by the.

time she's 14, she is pregnant by my grandfather's  boss who's the senior finance guy. Mhm. My father. is older than my grandfather. So then I was born  in the Philippines. Uh because this cult went. international in pretty much after Manson and you  know stuff started getting a bad name, right? And. so he got a revelation from God to go spread love  around the world. Got it. When I was growing up in.

the 80s and 90s, we were 10,000 people living in  communes all around the world. People is so many. people. So many. Okay. And David Berg actually was  just kind of a better cult leader than other cult. leaders. So what he did was he showed up and he  collected a bunch of other cults into his cult. Wow. And so built a giant cult very fast and the  children of God was always good at performing.

So they used music as a tool. You know, you  throw a music festival in Huntington Beach, get a bunch of interesting people. People don't  realize they're being brainwashed when they're. at a music festival, right? They believe they're  having a religious experience. And you had so many. young people that were just so passionate about  this and they did a really good job passing us. off as just this, right? A missionary group with  all these young cute children who love Jesus and. sing and perform. So sort of, you know, von trap  family singers but for for Jesus. Yes. And so I.

was born in the Philippines, lived in Japan,  Peru, and then a decade in Brazil. So like most. of what I remember is growing up in Brazil and  then Mexico as a child. And we were completely. cut off from the world in that, you know, we had  no music from the outside world. We had barely. any movies. We had no books. The only things we  were allowed to read was the King James Bible.

and the stuff that our leader wrote and that was  just our life. You know, the kids so no school, nothing. We were technically homeschooled. Okay.  But like the belief was that Jesus is coming back. every any day. So why do we need to waste our time  with school? Got it. So I would say, you know, they focused a lot on teaching us to read and  speak and perform in public because, you know,

performance is really brilliant for trafficking  children because when you see these shiny, smiley, dancing children, you don't think, you know,  are they getting paid? Are they being abused, right? Are are they happy to be there, right?  And of course, you know, unfortunately, the children of God is the cult that is famous for  sexual abuse. Mhm. You know, he started in the 70s. using the women who joined the cult as religious  prostitutes and called them flirty fishing. And it.

was, you know, a very culty thing to do was take  this verse from the Bible where he says, "I will. make you fishers of men." And he said, "Right, go  out and fish men." Wow. And then it got, you know, kind of heated up for the children of God in the  80s in Time magazine as a sex cult with this like. I call it a herum photo, you know, old dude, 13  scantily clad women and that name became very. synonymous with bad stuff and cults, right? So  they rebranded and they did a pretty good job.

They called themselves The Family International  and by the 90s they were performing twice in the. White House. No, they were not. Yeah. Okay. That's  a crazy rebrand. Yeah. And so they just sort of. switched from prostitution to performance, you  know, entertainment, right? And so, you know, it's interesting when I watched the Quiet on Set  documentary about kids growing up in Hollywood.

I was like, "Oh, we were just the poorest,  most abused end of this." O, that's really, really sad. And the weird thing about the Children  of God for being such a obvious cult was it wasn't. like with the polygamous Mormons where we  were shut away and never saw the world. We. were trafficked in front of the whole world. And  you guys were doing a lot of street performances. and that kind of thing. And this is what Walkina  River Phoenix and Rose McGawan were sort of a part.

of growing up which is street performing crazy  from what I've hear or know about cults and I. don't know if it's accurate. You are cut off from  the outside world. Like how do you manage 10,000. people from not going to say something? So I think  what people misunderstand about brainwashing the. most is all brainwashing is is getting you to  not question right is getting you to just not. go there. And so isolation doesn't have to be  completely unaccommune, never seeing the world,

right? You know, and actually I think the Mormons  taught us a lot about this where like you can. appear to be participating in the world, but  you're like insulated from it. And as a child, do you remember if you enjoyed those moments like  performing and being out of the commune? I really. did. And I, you know, I always say like the only  thing that's more theater kids than theater kids.

is evangelical performing kids. And I think that  it's because we were so controlled all of the. time. You know what I say about life growing up  in the children of God. Everyone focuses on the. sexual abuse and the the belief in pedophilia,  but what I say like was the worst abuse was just. no spontaneous moments of joy. You know, we were  essentially soldiers growing up in the army of. God, but I was a very good performer. And so when  I got on the stage, I could be larger than life.

and loud and dance and those kinds of things. So  I really enjoyed it and I feel very lucky that. I got to grow up in Latin America. Like if if I  had to be born in one of the world's worst cults, I'm glad I got to grow up in Brazil and get all of  that beautiful culture from it and not just like. Ohio or Utah. That is a beautiful perspective.  So when did you realize that okay this either.

one isn't normal? I don't know if you had the  wherewithal to know this is an exact cult, but like when did you start realizing okay  this isn't normal? Very very young. You know, I remember being 6 years old and I spent a lot  of time in like isolation's not even the correct. word, like solitary confinement just for being a  bad kid, which is to say a kid. And so in almost.

all cults, you will start to see like ironfisted  control of children because they have to. And I. always say like one of to me one of the warning  signs of kids is when you see like all the kids. in a row like that and they're just perfectly  behaved, right? You know, you see that in the. FBI's investigation of Waco. The kids, you know,  and they're like, "These kids are so well behaved, three and four year olds that sit for 4 hours in  the middle of the night. That's not normal. That's.

not normal. That's comes from abuse and fear.  That's horrible." Uh, do you wonder or or maybe. your mom did. Do you wonder why your mom didn't  have the same questioning? I mean, I wondered that. a lot as a teenager, but I just think that she  grew up in that exact same environment, you know, and I say about my mom, like she tried to teach  us the lessons she learned in a little bit of.

a kinder way, you know, and a little bit more  protective. And you know, the children of God was. extremely about corporal punishment, but she never  let us older kids discipline the younger kids, for example, you know, so she like saved me from  that specific kind of trauma, right? But also she. was just such a true believer, you know. So once  I started telling my story was when she found.

out that one of my main abusers um who was a very  famous person uh was also someone who had abused. her as a child. But because the rules had changed  and the rebrand had happened and we didn't do that. stuff anymore, she just never questioned it. Like  she never questioned whether her own children were. at risk. No way. Um cuz even though it's just a  rebrand, I didn't know that inside the cult that. was believable, but I would think that people  within would be like, "What a croc." I mean,

you would think, but this is I think this is the  problem for me when cults rebrand and this this. very specific type of rebrand, which we also see  with the Mormons and their belief in polygamy, which was we can't do it because of the outside  world. Right? So it wasn't the prophet was wrong, you know. So the prophet very specifically was  like when girls get their periods, which as we. were talking about is younger and younger all the  time, like that's when God intends for them to be.

sexually active and to start having babies. That's  crazy. And they quickly realized actually when I. was born that, well, if you have a bunch of 14,  15year-old, 13year-old girls running around with. babies, it's like that's proof of abuse. So we  got to be more careful. So they made the rule 16, right? But what you did back then, you know, and  my mom specifically was given this like when you.

got pregnant from an older man, that wasn't wrong  because that was allowed back then. That is so. so sad and so hard. This is where your mom was  growing up. This was her whole existence in life. I don't even understand how someone would feel  from like as a mother on the inside that war. within themselves that has to be really really  hard and you know ultimately I think she had. that war going on in her much more than even she  realized you know I think she was trying to be a.

true believer her whole life but when I at 15 you  know so I was always a a problem kid right with. within the cult which is just to say again,  outgoing, kind of noisy, creative, a normal, rambunctious child with ADHD. Yeah. Um, and so I  was always in trouble. Always in trouble. I mean, one of the reasons I think I'm always knitting  is because I just have so much terror of being.

alone with nothing to do because that was, you  know, they use solitary confinement a lot as. a punishment. Um, but you started knitting at a  really young age. Yeah, she taught me how to knit. when I was five. And that is like your soothing  mechanism. It's my Yes. is absolutely my stim. It keeps me calm. It, you know, I've knit through  my entire life through two times to war. No, it's. quite fascinating to see. You haven't looked down  one time. It's amazing. You guys know how much I.

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when I knew we were different and like I always  knew that and like at the age of six I was like, "Oh, you're gonna go to hell if you don't grow  up and stay in the family. Okay, hell's going. to suck." It was kind of my attitude. Like I just  think I was a little neurodeivergent atheist born. to religious extremists. So I was always trying  to get out. My problem was my grandparents were.

in the c, you know, like I was third generation.  So, I had no one to go to. So, I was like, "Well, I'm going to have to be 18." Um, but by the time I  was 15, I had gotten pretty desperate. It was bad. The abuse was bad. We was living with very abusive  men again and being just straight trafficked, like trafficked as a carnival clown through Mexico  and lower Texas. And I was just done. Yeah. And I. really didn't want to turn 16 in the group because  that's when you were expected to have sex with.

whoever wanted because this was still they call it  free love. I called it forced polyamory like you. were supposed to have sex with whoever wanted it  as a sign of God's love. And they didn't believe. in birth control because you know the best way for  cults to get new members is to birth their own. you know, so watching my mom who had seven kids  in 14 years, seventh child born when she was 30, and I was like, I can't do this, right? So I ended  up basically getting myself excommunicated just.

very dramatically climbing over the commune  wall to go, you know, fellowship with an. outsider. Yes. Go see a boy. Okay. And then I got  caught. So did you get caught intentionally? No, I just fell asleep and didn't wake up in time to  sneak back in. Okay, I say no like that because. I was like I I was sneaking out every single  night. So, it was bound to happen. And I wanted. like I wanted to get caught. I wanted my parents  to be so mad at me that I could just yell at them,

I want to leave the family. Cuz that's the thing  that's hard to explain, which is like, yeah, I wanted nothing to do with that life, but it's  really hard to tell your whole family you don't. care if you ever see them again and if you don't  go to heaven with them. Yeah. Just because you. want your own life. And you know, it's so funny,  too, because I wanted to leave the the children.

of God so I could go to high school. That was my  I was like Yeah. Because at this point you had. no proper schooling. You had home school, but it's  done for whatever they want you to learn. Yeah. So. I was facing excommunication. And the thing about  cults is there's no sin that is worse than the sin. of leaving. So they will always accept you back in  as long as you're willing to like humble yourself. and let them break you and then like recommmit.  And so I was wavering because as much as I wanted.

to leave, I was 15 and I didn't know a thing about  the outside world. So where are you going? It was. also scary, right? And so I was like going back  and forth. Meanwhile, my mom had been when she was. 20, she'd been married off in her third arranged  marriage to a man who was 20 years older than her. Sorry if this is inappropriate, but does that mean  did she have three husbands at one time? No. When.

she was 13, she was symbolically married to the  75-year-old prophet in this really crazy marriage. ceremony where he had 14 girls ranging from three  to 14. Stop. One of them was his granddaughter, one of them was his daughter. Oh, I mean this is  why the children of God gets known as one of the. most extreme cults. Then, in order to hide who  my father was, they married her off when she was. 16 to an 18-year-old boy. That lasted about 2  years, as teen marriages do, right? And then by.

the time she was 20, they married her off to a  senior leader who and my dad was one of the big. like musicians and performers that wrote music for  the whole group. So, wow. Anyway, so he had seven. older children and so my mom and dad had arranged  for me to go live with one of my step siblings who. I did not know, by the way. But they were still in  the cult. No, they were out of the cult cuz I was.

being thrown out. So it was either my parents were  going to have to leave the cult since I was so. young unless they could find a place for me. So,  I'm wavering back and forth and my mom like takes. me on a walk outside the commune where nobody can  hear us. And this is a rare thing. Yeah. And she. just looks at me and she's like, "Just go." She's  like, "Go. You're not happy here. We have a place. for you. Just go." And you know, she's out of  the cult now. We have a great relationship.

And she had told me, she was like, "Yeah, you  were just you were so miserable all the time. I. just could not keep seeing you like that." But did  she let you go where you didn't have to stay with. your step siblings? Um, no. I went You went Yeah.  So they brought me from We were in Guadalajara, Mexico at the time, and they brought me  to Houston, Texas, and dropped me off, and the high school was 4,000 students. Oh my  gosh. So I show up I show up to enroll. I have a.

social security card and a passport and that's it.  Right? Never been in school a day in my life. But. this culture shock for you now your your parents  aren't with you. You are taken out of regardless. of how up it was. That's still everything you know  like the only world you knew. And at 15 years old. now you're taken with your step sibling that  you didn't really know. You said right. Right.

And you're now going into this high school with  4,000 people like and also culture shock because. I'd never lived in America before. Right. So it's  like so on my first day of high school, you know, I have been telling myself like, "Oh, I'm I'm  different. I'm shocked because I grew up in. Brazil, right? I grew up in Mexico." And then on  my first day, I'm like standing in the hallway and. I'm hearing these two teenagers have just like a  debate. I think they were talking about evolution.

versus whatever. And I remember being like, "Oh,  I don't I don't even know how to think like that.". Yeah. My conclusion was, "Oh, I'm not from another  country. I'm from another planet." Yeah. Did you. have to worry about money in some regard? Yes.  But you didn't have to worry about like f like. paying for the roof over your head or anything  like that. So, I didn't have to pay for the roof. over my head. I still had to find a job. Yeah.  And what do you do? You know, the thing about. the children of God is like the children were the  workers. The children were the earners. Cults are.

always about labor. So, there was never a moment  in my life that I felt like I could just rely on. my sister. Like, she's not my parent. I don't  want to cost her any money, be any trouble. Um, my problem was I was not even 16. In most places  in America, you have to be 16 to have a job. Uh, I ended up getting hired at Chick-fil-A. And it  was funny cuz I got hired to be the sample girl. in the mall and my boss would always come out and  be like, "You need to smile. We hired you because.

of your smile." And I was like, "This is the same  Yeah. the same thing I used to do in the Oh, yeah. I guess you know, but to me, the hard part was  trying to fit in in high school. like work I have. always been used to like that wasn't hard you know  I wanted to go to school so bad so I loved school. how did you even love school so then you were like  I need to go to college school but I also you know.

looking back now I realize like two things is one  like when you're growing up in a cult you have to. be perfect all the time what you learn is you have  to be perfect all of the time and so I had to get. straight A's had too. I was the validictorian of  my arts and humanities program graduating college. I was working one to four jobs. And I look back  now and I was like, "Oh, I just put myself in.

another high control program so that I didn't have  to think about my trauma so that I could deal with. any of it." When I was sitting here, I was going  to say, "It sounds like you're filling up your. time with so much stuff so you don't have to think  about the horrific childhood that you had." Years. later, I was reading a book called Third Culture  Kids, and it talked about how for kids that. feel out of place, good grades can be a sign of  depression. And I never related to anything that.

hard. Wow. I was like, "Yeah, like school doesn't  fail me." And like, I can't get kids my age to. like me or not think I'm weird, but I can get my  teachers to love me if I'm their best student. Did. you have friends growing up in high school? Not  in high school at all. in college. So college was. very another isolating moment for you. So sad and  in college I So one of the things I think is that. I didn't know who I was supposed to be, right? So  the only thing I could figure out to do was like,

well, I got to try to just pass as a little white,  you know, exeangelical girl from Texas. You know, I look back now and and one of the things I  tell my audience of cult survivors is like, if you grew up being held separate from the world,  like you didn't grow up in that culture and you're. not going to pass, you know, and I kind of wish  someone had told me that. Just like when you're.

performing, right? When you're the straight A  student, nobody thinks you're at risk, right? So, I had a moment when I was 17 and there was a  murder suicide. the founders's son killed one. of his abusers and then took his own life.  And so I had this extremely surreal moment. where I'm watching the news and it's saying  children of God cult, children of God cult, children of God cult. And I was like, "Oh, I  grew up in a cult," right? You realize then,

you know, that's the cult. And literally, I was  like, "That's what's wrong with me." You know, that's crazy. In my case, that just put me further  into masking of like, you know, I really felt like. I would get kicked out if people realized I didn't  belong of your college and I actually of just the. the world I I don't even know how to explain it,  you know, but like I I used to have this dream I.

mean into my 30s where they had found out they had  found out that my high school degree diploma was. not valid and so everything else I did in my life  was invalidated and I was like back in high school. as a 30-year-old. This podcast is sponsored by  Active Skin Repair, a skin health brand that helps. your skin heal using natural, non-toxic, medical  grade ingredients. You know those products that. you end up using for one specific thing and then  suddenly you're using them for everything. That's.

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the red bag at select retailers nationwide. You  can click on the link in the description to find. a store near you. Did you go to therapy for any of  this? Definitely not until later. It's crazy that. as a young person who's essentially like you're  alone on this island. You're concealing so much. stuff and you're you're not lying, but you're just  concealing it all because you don't know what else. to do. You don't have your mom. You're with all  these people that you don't fit in with. Like,

what was your outlet? Was it really just the  knitting? It was It was knitting. You know, it has always been art, but at the time, like when  I was that young, it was, you know, I majored in. literature, so it was just reading books, writing.  And what does dating look like for you with all of. the past trauma and you not feeling like you fit  in? Was that something you were comfortable with. or were you closed off in that regard? No, I was  the opposite. I was the opposite of closed off,

which was that I was like, "Well, the one thing I  know how to do is get a man's attention and keep. a man's attention." And so, I was very I hate the  word promiscuous because I think it's made up to. critique women and it's stupid, but I would say as  a young person, I was rather judgment promiscuous. And you know, there's this other thing that I  tell young people all the time, which is when. someone tells you you're so mature for your age,  they're not complimenting you, they're targeting. you. M so like in 18 years old in college at this  chess party 26-year-old PhD D student comes over.

and you know becomes my first boyfriend and it's  so hard because precocious maturity comes from. trauma generally right comes from growing up out  of order. Yes. And so it's hard to not hear it as. a compliment because it's true. I was so mature  for my age. I couldn't get along with kids my age.

cuz I didn't know how to be a kid, but I could  get along with adults. I would talk about the. background more openly with people that I dated.  I was never the person that could just totally. be closed off, right? And so those were some of  like the only people that because I'm also sure it. affected you intimately. And it also Yeah. Right.  I would imagine I I have a lot of trauma related. to sex and so that was always something that came  up and and was really difficult. You're married.

and you have a daughter. Mhm. Are you honest with  your daughter about all the things you've been. through? Yes. Um so one thing that's interesting  is it's actually I've been married twice cuz I got. married in college and it was very much what  we call a one- one cult just like an abusive. controlling relationship. That is part of why I  joined the army and part of why I was able to get. away from him was because I was in the army. Okay.  But I had a lot of my trauma triggered when I.

deployed back to, you know, I get to Afghanistan,  I'm on another compound surrounded by dangerous. men, our men in this case, and a lot of that stuff  came back up for me. And so I started I think. dealing with it when I was 24 25. While you were  deployed. While I was deployed and fortunately had. therapy and had people that understood it because  you know I was so kind of suicidal and and dealing.

with a lot of stuff. So I was able to see our  trauma therapists in the military. Um, and I. just got so lucky that the random person assigned  to my unit had done their internship with women. and children from cults. And so she sort of Oh,  that's sort of had this idea of how she could help. me. Cosmic. Yeah. But my husband was the first  person that I that I met just as a friend and I.

had decided to start talking about my background.  So my current husband. So that was like it's such. a different relationship from like first let me  you know get to know you and make sure you like. me and then after a while probably cuz I'm having  some drama with sex I'm going to explain to you a. little bit about the background but I was just  completely open with him about it and I have. been also with my daughter but obviously at an age  appropriate level you know so it's it's a constant.

conversation you know so right now she's And  and the way she explains my life to her friends. is she says, "Well, my mom just didn't have a  good childhood." But then she goes, "So, she's. made me the best childhood ever." A well, doesn't  that make you feel good? Yeah. I mean, there's a. very interesting part of being a parent that was  re-triggering, but also healing, you know? So,

it was actually when my daughter was about 1 years  old that I was like, "Oh, I need I need to do. more. I need to tell this story cuz I need all of  this pain in my life to I was like, I need to make. my pain matter for some reason. Maybe it can help  other people cuz otherwise I'm not going to stay. around and I have to cuz I have a kid." Yeah, you  have to stay around. Well, I was going to ask. So. now, because you were so private about everything  you went through and you did feel at one point,

okay, I'm going to get kicked out of the world.  Do you think your daughter was the catalyst to. you being like, you know what, this is my story.  I need to do something good with all of this bad. stuff. Like, what made you now be so comfortable?  And I don't know if you're that comfortable. talking about this, but how it seems that you're  comfortable sharing this cuz it it is really. beautiful what you are doing. I mean, I think it  started even before my daughter and it started.

with my husband who just unconditionally loves  me and I don't think I'd ever really experienced. that before. You know, don't have to perform,  don't have to do anything. You know, recently. I had got off my anxiety meds for a little bit  and I was like understood, you know, it's when. you have an anxiety disorder, you don't know that  until you get on meds and then you realize, right,

what it was. Yeah. So, I had these two weeks where  I was off waiting for the new prescription. And I. was like, "Oh my gosh, how do you all live with  me? Like, I'm so anxious." He just looks at me. and he goes, "Babe, we'll take you any way we can  get you." A, we love him. So, I had, you know, fortunately that I found a very good partner and  but yeah, you know, having my kid, I mean, my my.

daughter was born and she didn't breathe for seven  minutes. Oh my gosh. And I remember lying there. in the bed, you know, they're huge emergency,  they're working on her, and my thought was like, "Of course, of course I don't get to marry the  prince and just live happily ever after. Like, of course I'm going to lose my child." Um,  and that was, yeah, a moment that kind of.

like really stuck with me and made me realize  like, yeah, I need to I need to heal. I need. to do something. And I didn't even realize how  much until I wrote my memoir and I was like, I'm. going to tell my story. I have to start talking  about this otherwise it's going to kill me. um, you know, had struggled with suicidal ideology for  a decade and your family freaks out when you write. a memoir. So, you have to, you know, really be  strong about wanting to do it. Yes. But, you know,

I had told myself for so many years, I'm fine.  I'm fine. I'm fine. It wasn't that bad. I'm fine. Okay. It was that bad, but I'm fine. And then I  I read my own book and I was like, "Wow, that's. so much." Yeah. Okay. This lady needs therapy. It  is so much. That is when I signed up for regular. all the time therapy, which has definitely been  a huge huge factor. What does freedom mean to.

you now? Whether it be from the cult or I know you  said so much was triggered uh joining the military. for you. Do you have like what does life mean  to you now in this current stage that you're in? You know, there was an interesting moment that  I had and it was after I wrote my first book, I finished my master's degree and I I did a whole  semester studying situational identity theory, which is basically group identity. And I realized  I was like, "Oh, I never got to form a personal.

identity." And as soon as I was able to put  that into words, I was like, "Oh, cool.". you know, and I had a kid, so I'm watching a child  like from the ages of 1 to six, that's your job is. to develop a personal identity. And then again,  as a teenager, you're supposed to be developing. an individual identity separate from your family.  Um, and you have to go through that process. And.

it's called delayed adolescence when we have  to do it after cults. And it's very hard. And. people in your life will call you a narcissist,  but it is like, you know, I just had to be like, okay, what do I like? What do I want to do with  my life? You know, it's a funny question how you. phrased it with freedom because when I got my book  deal, which was like came with a nice advance. So,

it was the okay, I'm going to get to do this  for five more years. And my first thought was, I'm gonna wear whatever I want for the rest of my  life. And actually the, you know, the knitting has. really come full circle. I started designing my  own clothes. I make these necklaces. Nice. I call. them love bomb collars and I take like junk from  thrift stores or people send them to me and then. I just add extra stuff to it. Um, and I when I  sell people the pattern, it also comes with a.

fact sheet on what love bombing is and how people  can get you. And I have made you one. Thank you. Oh my gosh. Thank you. Can I open it now? That's  what these nails are for. Oh my gosh, this is so. beautiful. These colors and the dragonfly.  A dragonfly is a symbol of starting over. So, what does love bombing mean in your details?  Because I I know love bombing is how you get Yeah.

how you get drawn into a cult. And I've been in  it also one-on-one cults then. One-on-one cults. It happens in single family cults, but you are  overwhelmed, you know? So, the children of God, right? They would have all these beautiful young  teenagers out on Huntington Beach and just walk. up to you smiling and laughing and pull you  in, you know. So, my grandfather joins the. cult because one night he had a bad LSD trip  where he met Satan. And so, the next day he's.

here in a park in LA with his head in his hands  and wondering what to do with his life, I guess, as one does after they meet Satan. I wouldn't.  And up come these four bouncing, happy, smiling, guitar playing young people that just want to  tell him how much Jesus loves him and they love. him. And off he goes. And that's how it started.  And that's how it starts. And the important part. about lovebombing is there's a bait and switch,  right? And even in the military, they do this.

with recruit. When you go to a recruiter, it's all  about you. It's all about what the army can do for. you and how you're going to have this great career  and it's going to be so great. Blah blah blah. You. can do anything you want. And then the first thing  they tell you in basic training is we don't care. what your recruiter told you. You're ours now. Oh  my gosh. you know, and all of a sudden it's now. needs of the army and you're not an individual  anymore and you have to do what's good for the. group. But because of the love bombing, you  have this knowledge that it can be that good,

that you can have that love and that perfection  and that passion. It's really crazy all of it how. convoluted it all is. Were you in contact with  your mom at all when you were out of the cult? like would you still speak with her? One of the  things that my mom did was refused to shun me a. you know and so she always let me call and talk  and was never like mean or bad about it. That's.

beautiful. Um, and then she ended up leaving about  a decade after me. And it was because one of her. children was very, very, very sick. And cults  don't like medical care. You know, they don't. want you being in the establishment. First of all,  it's too individual, right? And second of all, medical providers tend to wake people up from  abusive relationships, right, sometimes. And so. my mom just took her kid, got they were still  in Mexico, got on a plane to Houston and took.

her child to the hospital and then called my dad  who had the other five kids and was like, "I'm not. coming back. Bring the kids." Wow. And so it's  now been probably almost 20 years even for her, maybe 15 years. Wow. I think like she and I did  our deconstruction together just talking about, you know, reading all these books about cults.  And one of the things about cults is they're all. the same. So if you read like somebody else's cult  story, you'll be able to notice the same patterns.

Like human beings control other human beings in  the same way. One of the things I've realized that. my like purpose in life is to help us develop the  language for the experience of growing up in cults. and being in cults and what that's like. Is your  mom so so proud of you? My mom's pretty proud of. me. How could she not be? And I always say I don't  know if she's prouder that I got a master's degree. from Harvard, was a captain in the army, or that I  built myself a business just knitting and talking.

to the internet. I think she's equally proud of  all three things. Yeah. How could she not be? I mean, you are teflon. like you are crazy that  this could all happen and you have such poise and. grace and I know it's not easy but the way that  you're able to share your story with the world. It's it helps so so many people and even people  that aren't in a cult. I think just from abuse.

standoint, love bombing standpoint, one-on-one  cult as you say. I the guidance, the perspective, the light you're shining on that and the way that  you perceive it. And I'm like like going off in my. head. I'm like, "Yeah, you're right." Like so  many things. It's so so so courageous of you. Well, you know, it's been interesting to me ever  since I left the cult and started meeting other. Americans because it was very clear to me  that many Americans had experienced coercive.

control in one way or the other, but it just  hadn't been named or identified. And you know, I always say I have the benefit of the extreme  story. Like, nobody argues that Children of. God was a bad cult. M so I don't have to define  cults or defend or anything and so I just tell. my stories and then let other people you know I  always say like if you're hearing a story of the. girl who grew up in one of the worst cults and  you're relating Yes. right? You know, let's dig.

into that. And it doesn't have to be always that  extreme, you know, but like I call us, there's a. generation of kids in America who weren't allowed  to watch Harry Potter because we were in some. kind of religion generally that our parents  thought it was evil. And so there's this one. piece of the culture that you weren't allowed to  participate in. And like that experience of being.

held separate from your peers, that experience is  the same regardless of like how extreme it was or. like what the reasoning was. And that's the part I  think that really fascinates me is like how we can. all have these different experience. And I mean  coercive control doesn't just happen in cults. That's just the most extreme version that gets  our attention, right? And so my most recent book, The Cultting of America, what I did was I was  like, "Okay, I've built this 10-part definition.

of cult, and I'm going to show it to you in real  cults." Oh, I saw. And then in the military, and then in regular society. Well, I am so so  grateful that you came and you were so vulnerable, so open, so transparent about everything. Thank  you for being here. Yeah. Thanks for having me.