When You're FEELING INSECURE, Watch This To Change EVERYTHING! | Jay Shetty

Honestly, I just want the obsessiveness. to stop. Yes, of course I want to lose. the weight and I want to be happy in my. body. I want all these different things. that are conflicting, but the obsess if. that could just. quiet like my mind could quiet and I. could just. stop thinking about it, that would be. the most ideal because there are very. dark [music] days. when. I can't get out of my head.

Hey everyone, welcome back to a very. special episode of On Purpose. This. episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. online therapy and today I'm joined by. Hesu Joe, licensed marriage and family. therapist and head of clinical. operations at BetterHelp. And in this. new monthly series, we will be serving. real listeners of the show and you'll. hear their stories, the things they. struggle with, and get to sit in on a.

real therapy session with the intention. of letting you know that you're not. alone. We're all struggling with. something even if we never show it and. our goal is to bring more awareness to. taking care of your mental health and. provide everyone the tools, resources, and encouragement they need to heal. their past for a bright future. Now, the reason that I wanted to do this. was because I saw so many family members. who were still triggered by therapy.

Therapy is still has stigma in some. cultures, some backgrounds, some places. around the world. It's not been. normalized and I started to notice that. one of the biggest reasons was because. people had never sat in a therapy. session. They were somewhat scared about. it. They were somewhat apprehensive. towards it. And we can often be like. that. We can see videos of pretty much. anything in the world today. Even if. you've never been to a country or you've. never done an activity, chances are you. can find it somewhere and watch it. But.

it's very rare to be invited into a. therapy session because they're so. personal and vulnerable. And that's why. I want to give a special thanks to our. very special guest today, Jamie, who's. been so kind enough. to allow us into this space, to allow us. to hear her story as an open book as. Asue, our incredible therapist, guides. her through this discussion. So please. give Jamie a big warm welcome. Jamie, thank you for being here. Thank you for. doing this. Asue, thank you for being.

here. Thank you for doing this. Thanks. for having me. Really grateful to both. [laughter] of you for making time. I, you know, it's been a long-term. intention of mine to want to. help people find more tools and. resources and the fact that we get to. have this on the podcast where anyone. and everyone who's listening and. watching can get to sit in on someone. else's therapy session hopefully to. find their own path is is really really. important. So Asue, I'm going to hand. over to you. We're in your trusted. hands. I'm going to be, everyone who's. listening and watching, I'm going to be.

you in this scenario. So I'm going to be. observing, listening, taking mental. notes, reflecting, and then sharing my. reflections at the end as well. So Asue, over to you. Thank you, Jamie, for. coming here and leads me to often the. very first question that most people. will hear in the therapy room. Like what. brings you to therapy today? I have for. very long time struggled with an eating. disorder. Probably since I was seven or. eight, I started to feel sort of the. repercussions of a family member, my mom.

being. the person. It's something that I've. always struggled with and I would say in. the past two years it got much worse, I. think, being in the pandemic and the. idea that we didn't see people. And so. when the world started to slowly open. up, putting on clothes got really hard, more so than, you know, what I was. wearing all day, every day. And so, that's when sort of depression set in a. lot deeper than it ever has been. And um. yeah, it's it's been a hard couple of. years. Yeah, I mean, hard several years,

right? I mean, you mentioned that this. disordered eating began at 7 years old. That's very young. Can you tell me a. little bit more about how you know that. something about the way you were eating. was different at such a young age? Yeah, I mean, you know, I think it was a lot. of comments that sort of came at me in. terms of. you shouldn't be eating this or you. should be eating this. Even at 7, I I. think I started to notice other people's. bodies and notice that I was developing.

before them. And I know that 7 years old. is a young age to notice that, but I. think I just always felt bigger in some. way. And when I I have this very visual. memory of. wearing the same outfit as one of my. close friends and wearing a top that. showed our stomachs and feeling as if I. just like I wasn't good enough within my. body. And so, it's been a struggle in. multiple ways um since then. [clears throat].

Well, early on, you were already getting. messaging. of labeling of foods. This is good. This. is bad. And if I eat a bad food, I don't know if you're getting the. messaging, but I think a lot of kids. start feeling if I'm eating bad food, I'm a bad person. And that that can. spiral into so many different things. Can you tell me a little bit more about. the actual eating habits that you have. challenges with? Like, would you say. it's under-eating, overeating? My eating. habits are more in sort of the. orthorexia.

sort of way of eating, which is more. just like I'm very cognizant of eating. healthy or what I deem healthy. Um and. the idea that certain foods are bad. And. so, I have a lot of shame around food. And so, I would say that the how many. hours awake that I am throughout the. day, there is usually. a time period in which I'm thinking. about my next meal. Should I be eating. this? I actually really want this, but. like this isn't going to help me get to.

the place that I want to get in terms of. the way that I want to look. My mind is. constantly thinking through that, but. food-wise it is really what I deem. healthy. I would say that like I don't. overeat and I don't under-eat. It's kind. of gone through phases and I think in. the last couple of years as like food. has become more charged in the way of. like, you know, there's always going to. be a different a diet. There's always. going to be like a different way of. eating even if they don't deem it a.

diet. I've definitely kind of come into. that especially I my background is I'm. in the beauty industry and so um. yeah, it's you know, there's always. things that I could be trying, but. ultimately that's not really good for me. as someone who is working through an. eating disorder. Right, right. So right. now wanting to learn more about the. picture of who you are here, do you. track what you eat? Like what kind of. ways do you. monitor what you consume? Currently, no,

I don't. But what I do do is I make a. list every week of. all the foods I'm going to be eating, the meals I'm going to be making. That's. something I do every single week and the. workouts that I'm going to be doing. So. that like I don't have to think twice. about something. Although that's not not. always the case. I've had done a food. diary which has been helpful in the. past, but ultimately it's really just. sticking to sort of like the regimen. that I've made sort of like my own Excel.

doc in. I'm a Virgo, so. I like to make a lot of lists. and so that really just sort of is is. yeah, that's sort of how I lay it out in. terms of the way that I function. Yeah. And you're already familiar with. orthorexia, so I imagine you've also. experienced at times like people don't. recognize that this could be disordered, right? Cuz it looks like meal prepping. I'm healthy. I'm working out. I'm. planning my life out. So, at what point. do you think you. you noticed this is beyond just like.

being healthy and mindful? I would say. it was fairly recent, especially in the. last 2 years. And I think with I'm on. social media quite a lot. For your job, I imagine. For my job, but. also I am just like I'm the person who. sits there and it's like I see something. interesting and I will click and I'll go. down that rabbit hole following. different people that I see. And also. with trying to bring up more types of. bodies right now, especially with body. positivity and, you know, just looking. at those different types of bodies, I. sort of started to see that like.

what how people were talking about their. own bodies and appreciating them. I was. like, "Wait, but this isn't like the. body that I was shown when I was, you. know, 15 and the thing that I've wanted. to emulate for so long and now other. people, you know, want this type of body. that I might not have wanted in the. past." And so I started to sort of see. that a little bit. But then I also had. an experience a couple of years ago. where I worked with someone to get off. of ADD medicine. And it wasn't the right fit for for me.

to work with this person and. it took away a lot of different foods. within that within everything that I was. eating and it sort of it got a lot. harder for the eating disorder and. Weaning off of the ADH [clears throat]. ADD medication. Yeah, not that the ADD medication anyway. sort of. made me feel different. It was more of. the idea that I was taking off grains. and all these different types of foods. essentially to not have the brain fog.

And so because I was removing all that. from my diet, I saw I was losing weight. And when I stopped working with this. person, you know, I kind of just did my. old thing. And so that really stressed. me out where I saw myself gain more. weight and the idea of that I knew that. I had such a strict regimen before that. I was like, there's something not right. here because like I've never eaten. unhealthy as I'm saying in quotes. Mhm. You know, on my terms, but ultimately. working with this person was just the. wrong fit. It worsened my eating.

disorder and the idea of the orthorexia. piece of that is just I think I came to. understand that like there was something. wrong here. So when you mentioned um it. has gotten worse in the past couple of. years, can you say more about what has gotten. worse? Like you mentioned like you're. often thinking about food, what you're. going to eat next. So when something is. so pervasive in our mind and it consumes. all of our time, that's like the one of. the first clues that it might be. problematic. Well, how else has this.

manifested in your life? Like other than. just your thoughts? You know, I. find myself, especially in the past. couple of years, sitting and moving in different ways so. that I don't have to feel the different. parts of my body that I don't like. Whether that's even going to bed and. lying on my side and feeling as if. something is touching me that I don't. want to actually feel and that I want to. change. I will manipulate my body so. that I don't have to feel that way. I.

also was wearing basically like the same. outfit every day during the pandemic and. so I think in some way that got me to a. place that I just. I couldn't put on anything else because. I didn't want to know how tight. something might be. I mean, I of course. was hoping that it would be much more. loose on on myself when I tried. something on, but the idea that it could. be tight would send me into a spiral and. could send me straight to my bed where. essentially I don't want to talk to. anyone. I could be crying. It really all.

depends on sort of the situation. And. I'll also add that I am on. antidepressants. So, if I happen to wake up the next morning. before I take that antidepressant, there. have been periods of time where I won't. go to take it immediately. And I have a. pretty short period, I've learned, from. the time that I wake up to the time that. I should be taking it where I can. essentially sort of stay in, you know, this sort of like more calm zone. And. so, I wouldn't go take my medication. immediately. And so, it would that.

chemical imbalance really showed itself. and um. made it really hard to get out of bed. And, you know, sometimes my husband. would have to pull me out of there and. tell me to take my medication, which is. exactly what I needed to do. What. medication are you taking now? So, I. take Viibryd and I also take Wellbutrin. Okay. And so, you're taking that. regularly. And do you see. um a psychiatrist for this or is it. general practitioner? Yeah, I see a psychiatrist. And how often do you see them for. check-ins, that kind of stuff? Every 3 months. Every 3 months, okay.

And you're happy with the services that. you're getting there? Yeah. I have been. on an antidepressant since I was 9. So, I've changed up my antidepressants. I. felt. a lot of shame and stigma being 9 years. old and taking it and took it maybe like. a few times a week because I just didn't. feel comfortable. I didn't understand. why I took the medication. Mhm. When I was 18, I. went through something in college and. decided to take my medication and.

you know, it's it's funny because all. the things, you know, that I worry about. with my body and the eating disorder and. the things that I want to get better, my. antidepressant has become like this. light for me and is like this thing that. I appreciate so much in my life. It is. it's been a really important piece to. sort of my recovery and it's really. important. Yeah. With the medication, you mentioned you've been taking it. since you were a child. Um have you also been in therapy that. whole time or when did the therapy. journey for you begin? So I was put in.

therapy at 5, which my mom claims was. play therapy. So I don't really know. what that means, but I do have this very. strong visual of me playing with toys on. a woman in a woman's office. Mhm. But I [clears throat] was in. therapy until I was 18 and I hated it. Again, I didn't understand why I was in. it. My therapist during high school is. the last one that I I really remember. during that time period and just didn't. click with her. I didn't know what to. say and I constantly. was being I was the one who had to talk,

you know, there wasn't much of a. conversation which I know that in. therapy it's very different for everyone. and how everyone works, but it was. really uncomfortable for me and so I. kind of swore off therapy for a really. long time. Yeah, I mean that's. understandable if you did not know why. you were there. It sounds like you were. not there out of your own free will, which is like a huge component of going. into this process is like identifying. what it is that you want to work on. And. it's complicated with kids. Like kids. are going to be put into therapy because. their parents or their teachers are.

recognizing some kind of behavioral. issue. Yeah. But as you mentioned and like put. so well, a 5-year-old is going to have a. really hard time understanding like why. they're even coming here. If they can. have fun, that's great. Play therapy is. a thing, I love it. I mean, you touched on. not knowing why you were there. There's. no rationale that was provided. Can you. tell me a bit more about what else you. hated about it? That the therapy that. you hated. It's funny because my. my mom would say that they would tell me.

things that I didn't want to hear and so. that's why I hated it, which I think is. just like that's the whole gist of. therapy. That's really why I hated it. and I. I didn't want to be told the things that. I didn't even really understand about. myself. I mean, of course I understand. that now. I asked my mom a few years ago. like why was I in therapy so young? Why. did you put me on an antidepressant? And. she never really has a clear answer. And. I do want to caveat that like I am very. close with my mom and she's super. supportive. You know, she just did.

things I didn't understand and um I've. come to kind of learn that I always. really wanted attention and I think that. maybe my parents, teachers at school just like already. always sort of like saw that as like. acting out. I've always wanted attention. also for my body. I've wanted people to. praise my body, to tell me that like. wow, you've lost weight or wow, like you. look so you look so great in those. jeans, like what have you done? And I. have never really gotten that and the.

only person I did get it from was my mom. and it was the one person I never wanted. to hear it from. And I still feel that. way. Yeah, I don't even know if I. answered your question. I think I got. far from that. Yeah, I'm trying to get a sense of like. what about your past therapy experiences. that you really didn't like and moving. on from that, it's like what from these. past experiences in therapy can you. recall enjoying? Like were there pieces. and components that you did like? In um college, when I started to take my. antidepressant and sort of realized that.

I needed it, I also went to a therapist. that happened to be like part of my. college at the time. Mhm. And um I saw. this. recommended by your mom. She probably. told me to see a therapist, but she. didn't have to say in who it was. Um and I saw this woman and I remember. really. liking her and also remembering coming. back and that she couldn't be my. therapist the next semester. I think it. was because it felt more of a. conversation. She was asking me.

questions versus me constantly being. like. this is what happened today or this is. what's been going on in my life and I. don't think that I could articulate that. as a kid. I think I still want that. conversation in a therapy session. Um I don't think I would so much want, you know, it would just be me, but I. think I it would be a lot easier now. just as I've grown as a person and sort. of like know the different things about. me that obviously I didn't know then. So. now when you're entering therapy, something that is important to you is to.

be able to be involved in the. conversation, to have a voice in what. your goals are and what you're working. on. Mhm. And even just having some. structure and guidance from the. therapist to like move towards something. versus just like, "What do you want to. talk about today?". Mhm. Right now, what would you say are. your main focuses and goals? Yeah, I. mean it's really getting to a place. where I can feel good in my body and I. know that that I've always said that I. don't know if that will ever come and. there are days where that's even more.

charged than, you know, I'm saying that. now as like, "I don't know if it'll ever. come." But there are days where I'm. like, "It will actually never come." And. so I want to be able to be comfortable. in the body that I have in that moment. To not feel as if like, you know, things. feel really hard. Eating feels really. hard even though I'll I'll happily eat. and I do enjoy food and even saying that. is like hard for me to say. Um I like. get uncomfortable saying that because of.

the way that I feel about my body and. the idea that like I want to look a. certain way. And so ultimately it's just. like. being okay because the amount of space. that food and my body takes up is. is pretty terrifying. Is it ever debilitating? Yeah. Right, it's like consuming all of your mental. energy. Would you say that like thinking about. food, planning food, avoiding food, has. this gotten in the way of relationships.

or performance at work? So I would say. so I'm married and. I definitely. we have a a great relationship and um, we he's very supportive in sort of. anything that I want to do, but. ultimately, yeah, it can get in the way. and I would even say that it gets in the. way of libido. Um, granted I am on antidepressants and. I know that that libido and. antidepressants is, you know, not a. great mix or it doesn't mix, but.

ultimately, if I [clears throat] don't. feel good in my body, like I don't want. anyone to touch me. And I would say that. like I have a very hard time being. intimate in any way because I don't even. like want to feel my own body. So, being touched. is uncomfortable even though it's coming. from a supportive place. Um, and I'm working on that and it's really. hard when you have someone who. cares so much about you and loves you.

the way you are, but even if he says. that I'm beautiful or I look great, like. I can't I can't take the compliment. I. can't take it. You don't see it. yourself, you don't believe it. And you. know, we've all heard that phrase of. like, I wish I you could see yourself. the way that I see you and it sounds. like that's the way that your loving and. doting partner is. Mhm. Can you tell me about the. relationship between body image and. self-worth? Yeah, I don't feel as if I'm.

worth a lot of different things in my. life. You know, I I actually So, something that I do is and this is only. been in probably the last 6 months is on. my Instagram, I've been doing these um, stream of consciousness posts. I've. never been a a. a journaler. Um, I'm a writer, so I. don't know if that has anything to do. with it. But, um, all of a sudden I started to kind of. these certain memories sort of started. to come up. And so, when that would come. up, I would go to my notes and just like.

quickly write down a paragraph of sort. of the different things that are on my. mind in terms of my eating disorder. And. you asking about self-worth, that's why. I'm bringing this up is that I wrote a. post recently saying that if I just was. thinner, I'd have more clients. If I. just were thinner, you know, so on and. so forth. And so my self-worth is. pretty depleted because I. I rely so much on my body to do a lot of. the work in terms of making me feel.

better about what I'm doing. You have. this thing that comes up of if I achieve. a particular body type, then I just all. these negative feelings will go away. I'll feel better about myself. I'll. learn how to be happy with who I am. Like where do those. scripts come from for what is the ideal. body type? Can you say more about like. what is your prototype? Like where does. that come from? I mean, I think it comes from my mom. Um.

and I would say that's. a big part of that. Although she's told. me for a really long time that I can't. blame her anymore. I haven't lived with. her for years. But I. I don't know where else it comes from, to be honest. Um. but it's always stuck with me. Mhm. Like. I have different like visuals and sort. of memories of like. being a kid and you know, whether I'm. like trying on a friend's jeans and the. idea that they don't fit me. Mhm. So.

like little things like that. So that. would be an interesting exploration, I. think, for us to continue at some point. Mhm. You know, it's just like figuring. out where this prototype comes from. to dissect it because then once you. really understand it, I think it makes. it a little bit more achievable to start. letting it go. Mhm. To start unlearning. that so you can relearn and recompose a. different ideal body, which might be the. one that you're in right now. Mhm. I.

think it's fair to want to achieve. certain things, whether that's increased. strength, better balance, more stamina, more endurance. Having personal goals. like are important, so I think it's good. for you to think about like goals that. are separate from I want to lose 8 lb. It's not really about the weight. It's I. want to be able to go up these stairs. and not get winded. For you, it is I'm. hearing a lot about body image, not so. much about like. fitness. Is that right? Yeah, I mean, I'm I work out five to six times a week,

and so I've come to learn that like the. working out piece is the consistent. part. And also working out sometimes. I'll I can, you know, that can stress me out, too. If I see. something on my body that I don't like, that I almost I want to stop working. out. I want to quit, but I keep moving. through it. So, I'm usually working out. for I'm not I always say that like I. work out cuz I think it mentally makes. me feel better, but honestly like it.

doesn't really help with my stress. Doesn't help with like my depression. It's just something that I know I need. to do to have a better day, but. ultimately like all the other things are. still going to bother me. Yeah. But I. always think about food as being the. thing that like that is what's going to. make a difference. And that that's come. pretty recently, knowing that like the. food is going to be the thing that's. going to be the difference. It's not. that like, you know, the 30 minutes that. I worked out on Monday, I should have. done an hour. And that I had I felt that. differently in the past, but those. things have changed a little bit.

Something that I think would be. interesting for both of us is like as we. continue forward and have more. conversations, redefining goals, right? It sounds like. everything. when it comes to food, when it comes to. your exercise routine and training your. body, it's it's it's all comes back to. like how you look. So, my hope and sense. is that someday you'd like to also. incorporate goals around. health. Mhm. Yeah, and.

you know, I write about that. I mean, I. just wrote an article about metabolic. health. You know, like these are things. that I'm researching and looking into. all day long. And some of those things. are things that I might want to try, but. I also know that like these types of. things like, you know, talking about a. glucose monitor that like that would. probably be. might be dangerous for me at this point, and I might have not realized that, you. know, a couple of years ago. It might. have been something that I just sort of. like did immediately. And not to say. that a glucose monitor is dangerous. I. think.

they can be really helpful for people, but for me as someone who is already. like. looking at what thinking about what I'm. eating at all times, and the idea that. I'd have to check back into something. and be like more accountable than maybe. I. am sometimes that it's just there's. it it could be more stressful. Right. You're I mean, you're you're describing. not wanting to become more obsessive. about this thing that's already kind of. impacting in a negative way a lot of. areas of your life and. and I'm also There's like a theme.

emerging here. There's a lot of. conflicting things in your life. There's. like. Mhm. a career that's that's really like. in the world of body positivity, but you. yourself are not feeling like that. per se. Even the stuff that you're. writing for work, I think people might. have a different perception of the. person that writes this when they're. reading it, right? It's like maybe a. persona almost. It's not quite who I'm. seeing here.

It's not a first-person piece. So, they probably don't you know, they're. not necessarily focused on the person. who's writing it so much so. You know, something that you said about the. obsessiveness of sort of the eating and. also with how we were talking about how. like I like want to feel good in my. body, but I also want to like lose the. weight, you know, that type of thing. I. think honestly I just want the. obsessiveness to stop. Yes, of course I want to lose the weight. and I want to be happy in my body. I. want all these different things that are.

conflicting, but the obsessive if that. could just. quiet like my mind could quiet and I. could just. stop thinking about it, that would be. the most ideal because there are very. dark days. when I can't get out of my head. Yeah, so that's our goal. Mhm. Kind of zeroing. in on this thing that has taken over. your mind space. And then, you know, as we work on those.

kinds of things, other stuff begins to. unfold and I really, really appreciate. you being so open and answering all. these questions so honestly because I. think it helped us identify something. here, which is what you really want. first is to address the obsessiveness. Yeah. The racing thoughts, the rumination, the. dwelling, you know. Totally. And I think. as someone who's like pretty, you know, doing those Instagram posts and you. know, I actually I talk about to mental. people about their own mental health all. day as I have my own mental health.

platform. It's something that I created. with my husband because we wanted to be. able to tell other people's stories to. make them not feel so alone. And it's. funny to think that that not funny, but. it's. you know, I I struggle so much and I. think that the idea that I have these. conversations with people has helped me. to feel not so alone. But yeah, ultimately it's it's just. my I don't I don't really know how I do. all my other work because my brain is.

constantly thinking about my body. Yeah. You said not funny, probably some irony. Right. As soon as Jamie, thank you so much for. that. Jamie, thank you for being so. honest and open and. you know, really letting us in. I think. I was of course listening as all of our. listeners and viewers and. you know, hearing someone who's so. open allows me to.

have the same reflections about the. voice that's in my head. I think you. articulated so many things so. effectively and so wonderfully genuinely. that allowed me to articulate certain. experiences and emotions that I have. about some similar things that you've. raised. Mhm. That's only possible because you. were willing to go there. Uh and I'm hoping that everyone who's. been listening and watching I I can. definitely say that I think you've. helped a lot of people today. because you've just shown us the the.

breadth of the human mind where it can. go, what it can experience. and because you've been doing that work. to understand yourself. Mhm. All of us. who may not have the words or the voice. to kind of piece them together, we're. hearing that through you. I know I know. I definitely was. Um so thank you for. that personally. I I want to help unpack a little bit of. what we've done today because you've. both met for the first time today. Mhm. Uh Asu had no background on you, Jamie. Right. I and you had no background as.

well. So this has been a real genuine. interaction and conversation of real. discovery. Jamie, how long have you been going to. therapy for at the moment or as in not. since the days you didn't enjoy going, but more recently? The past 6 months. Okay. So it's been 6 months since that. time from 5 to 18 that you didn't enjoy. therapy to reconnect. There was a couple. of like short like 2-month period where. I. 2-month period long sort of therapy. I.

would try someone new and I'm like, "No, this isn't good." And then it would. might be like 4 years and I would do it. again. So I would say in between sort of. like 18 until now, there might have been. like three different therapists that I. saw for like a month or two. And now. you're in this 6-month commitment phase. it sounds like with a bit more. it sounds like a bit more regularity and. consistency. What has brought you to that now and. what benefits are you seeing from the. last 6 months? Yeah,

I what brought me to it was that uh it. was. getting harder to get out of bed. I. guess I don't even know if I know like. the quite meaning of this term because I. don't think I had suicide ideation, but. the I I would lay in bed and think that. like I don't think I need to be here. I'm so unhappy with how I feel and how I. look. Maybe I'm just not meant to be. here. And so my husband had been telling. me to go see a therapist for a while and.

I think maybe. the last time that I I thought about. sort of the idea of me not being here. was when I. I said, "Okay, I'll look for someone.". And it wasn't, you know, the next day I. went and like found someone. It was kind. of like. a little bit of a lull trying to find. someone that also could specialize in. eating disorders, which I had never had. I. I don't exactly know what my therapist. was when I was in high school, but. you know, it was kind of just talking. about like everything that was going on.

in my life. So, that's what I've been. focused on the last 6 months. Yeah, and. would you say there've been any any. skills that you've developed over that 6. months or anything you feel that. you mark as progress for yourself? Sort of talking to her in this the. person that I'm seeing in this ongoing. basis has allowed me to find a couple of. coping skills. It's not something that. like I it's it's so hard and set that. I'm like, "Okay, I I need to do" but a. lot of breathing helps. And not even. like I'm not talking breath work. I'm.

just talking about like talking to. myself saying like, "Okay, I need to. walk away from this or I have to go. finish this thing. That was something. that I had to do a lot of when I was. just on vacation a couple of weeks ago. because it was the first time I had. worn a bathing suit in a long time and. worn different things that I hadn't worn. in the past year or so and so I had I. was really scared to go on that vacation. as exciting as it was because I didn't.

want my stress and anxiety and panic to. get in the way of my husband and I. having a good time. And I was [clears throat] able to get. through that. Thank you for sharing that. and uh. Ashley as well for you like. when just to give people a bit of an. insight when you're meeting. a new prospective client or someone that. you're having a conversation with in. this situation, what what are you trying. to do? Like what is your process because. I think just for. you know, obviously here we have Jamie.

who's very happy to be open and she's. been so kind in letting us in. A lot of people who may be listening and. watching may be just like, "Well, how do. I be so open with a stranger and like I. I don't know if I feel comfortable and. just to let them in a bit to your. process, what are you trying to do? Uh. of course, I think you're you have a you. know, a wonderful skill at making. someone feel comfortable and not being. invasive. You are very protective of. someone's safety and how far they want. to go, but could you help us understand. a bit more of that? Yeah, great. question. I think um.

you know, initially the big thing for. many therapists if not most, I hope all, is to build rapport. It's like it's part. of our textbook training is like. if this person doesn't feel safe, it's. not about them trusting you as an. individual. It's do they feel safe in. this room? Do they feel an absence of. danger from you? Like these are big. things for me, so. you know, there are techniques, right? It's like about the loudness of your. voice, like mirroring your client's body.

language, um just kind of being really. in tune with how quickly they're. breathing. So, a lot of nonverbal cues. So, initially, it's very much about. listening to understand versus listening. to respond. Which is what we all do in conversation, right? We're just wanting to make sure. we're like keeping up or whatever it is, but for me, it's it's really wanting to. understand, start to paint a picture of. who you are, not just this person. sitting in front of me, but the kid that. existed that grew up into who you are.

now, and the parents that raised this. person, and all these dynamics. So, of. course, we didn't have like a full. session today, and normally in my. assessment process, when I'm first. getting to know a client, I'm trying to. get as much info about family dynamics. If you weren't raised by your biological. parents, then finding a little bit more. about like what that situation looked. like. And that's because of my approach. as a therapist. It is important for me. to kind of start poking around.

childhood. And always ask my clients, are you comfortable with this? Because. some clients don't want to go there. Mhm. Um and it's not necessary. You. don't have to go there to start learning. some real skills to start coping with. today's challenges. But, when my clients. do let me in there, um I'll definitely. want to go down that rabbit hole. Uh. because there's just so much stuff that. happened to us as children that we. didn't understand at the time, meaning. we probably still don't understand it. now. So, having a space now to process. it, connect it with our current emotions.

and relationship styles, the ways that. we attach with other people, that. becomes very important to me. There's. something that therapists do that I'm. sure everybody's aware of if they've. been in therapy is paraphrasing. Is. saying back to you essentially what you. just said, maybe rewording it a little. bit, and maybe adding like a little bit. of my own insight here and there. And. this creates the experience of like, she. really heard me, you know, she's not. putting her own stuff into this. She. just wants to continue hearing me and.

seeing me and that's that's definitely a. big intention of mine is I want this. person to feel validated. If you know, sometimes that might be the first time. somebody's really felt seen in that way. Um my hope always for a new client and. even more seasoned clients like more. established clients is that they know. that when they come to see me, it's. always still going to be about them. I'm not ever going to flip the. conversation to make it about me. You know, therapists sometimes use. something called self-disclosure, which.

is just like. giving you some nuggets about who I am. and you have to be really intentional. about doing that and it's very clear. even if the client can't articulate. what's going on when a therapist is like. overly using self-disclosure for. reasons that aren't very productive or. leading to. anything good for the client. Clients. know that. They can feel it. Something. about the session doesn't feel right. when they leave. They don't feel as. satisfied. So, that's like some of the initial. process. Very useful. Yeah, I think those are.

really useful insights. for people to be aware of what it feels. like, what it looks like, why someone is. doing that. Like you said, it may feel. strange in your first session. It's. like, why does this person keep. repeating what I'm saying? But there's a. reason for it, you know, there's a. reason to try and listen in. I want to. ask you both one last question and of. course happy for you to share anything. that's on your heart or mind. Jamie, for you as someone who's had, you. know, a variety of different therapy. experiences without choice, now with.

choice, uh even the idea of people often refer. to the idea of dating is like finding a. therapist. Like you're kind of like, oh, two months, okay, nope. Okay, yeah. Right? Uh what would you say are some. things that were important to you or. that if people are listening and. watching and they're in that process. that you could say, here, these are. things that worked for me or these are. things that I was looking for. If there. were three things that were very. important that helped you find someone. that you now were consistently seeing. for 6 months. Specialty was really. important and I would say that there are.

a lot It is harder to filter eating. disorders is what I've noticed in my. experience of looking for someone. So, getting as specific as possible, if. that's what you're needing therapy for, depending on where you're what you're. going what you're doing. But, um. yeah, that specialty was really. important to me. Before I found the. therapist who I'm seeing now, I I spoke. to someone else and so. and it was necessary to kind of go. through that process of talking to.

someone and realizing this isn't You. know, she was like a little too. soft-spoken for me. And sort of also. understanding what I need from like a. conversation sort of perspective is that. I need someone who will also. you know, talk back to me, give me the. advice versus say like, "What's on your. mind today?" And so, I've I kind of was. taking notes as I was going through the. process of finding a therapist that like. I really like it when. she gives me this feedback. And that was.

really important and that was something. that absolutely didn't happen from, you. know, being. a kid until I was 18 and and having. those discussions with my therapist. then. Yeah, that's great. I I find that. really useful. I even think. even making someone aware of that is so. useful. Has there Is there anything that. clients make you aware of, any questions. they ask you that you think actually. improves the relationship? If If there. are people today who are like, "Oh, wow, I need to go and find a therapist. I've. been really inspired by this.

conversation." What are some of the. things you as a therapist would say, "Hey, please ask your therapist this. question or please let your therapist. know this that actually could speed up. that opportunity to finding the right. person?". What a great question. And at some point. I did ask you, like, were there things. about your previous therapy experiences. that you liked? Cuz I was trying to get. to that. I was trying to get at what can. I take from what you've done before and. keep doing the good stuff? Like, take. the good stuff, keep doing that. So, it. is greatly appreciated, I think, by many.

therapists when clients come prepared. with those questions, like. initially, you should interview your. therapist. Like, you're hiring them and. ultimately you can also fire them. Like, that's what happens when you decide you. don't want to work with them anymore. I think uh finding a specialist is also. extremely important cuz. that was a great point. Yeah, cuz someone can be really, really. good at working with clients with. anxiety and workplace stress, but if. they have someone coming to them with. concerns around orthorexia, that's going. to be very challenging for the therapist.

because they're not well educated or. trained, yeah. You know, somebody that specializes. means they're going to additional. trainings. They may have gotten. certified in something. They've um you. know, began supervision or consultation. with like somebody that's also master in. this kind of world, which just means. they've worked in it so long that they. identify, recognize patterns of behavior. in a particular group of people. Um. and so, from there, you can start.

thinking about really specific coping. skills, specific ways to help people. build those skills to help cope with. life. Because somebody that's like. really good at getting you to think. about how to cope with workplace stress. is not really going to understand, like. "But you're meal prepping. That's a good. thing, right?" You know, so, it's okay. for clients to ask all their questions. about the therapist and come to the. conclusion that they're not the right. person because that's what the therapist. wants, too. We have a code of ethics to.

keep the public safe and one of those. pieces is you are not to work with. clients that are outside of your scope. of competence, right? Like, if I have. zero training, exposure and. understanding of any eating disorders, it would be a disservice to you to try. to work with you through this thing that. I don't really know much about. Mhm. I didn't say a specific question, but clients, please feel. you know, that you have the permission, of course. You should be asking. questions and interviewing this person.

to see if they're a good fit for you. Yeah. Yeah, I I I actually think that's. a really great piece of feedback because. often people think of therapists as. their authority. Mhm. And so there's a. sense of like, oh no, no, this person's. going to tell me. But actually in the. beginning, before you being guided, there is this interview process of. making sure the person's compatible and. Yeah. and right for you. And it took me. a long time to get there. That's what I mean. Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm in my 30s now and, you know, the last time I saw someone for like 2. months at a time, I.

was in my 20s and definitely didn't ask. any question. I just was kind of like, all right, I'm just going to go in and. Yeah. I'll hear what this person has to say. But, yeah, that was a learned skill, for. sure. Yeah. Are there any final words that either of. you want to share with our community or. or audience today or each other? Uh because I'm feeling extremely. grateful for this opportunity. Jamie, you've led us in and I'm hoping that. this conversation has been. useful to you. uh in moving you forward toward your.

goals. Uh I'm obviously hoping that this. relationship continues. You know, Hasu, I think you've been so kind as well and. generous with your time. to to truly sit with Jamie and and help. guide this dis- discussion as well and. your insights towards the end there. But. any last few words from from either of. you? I would just say that, you know, like, I think the reason that I've. become because I know that it's not it's. not easy to talk to a therapist or talk. to anyone about your mental health and. what's going on and.

I while I said I've always been an open. book and really vulnerable, it's only. been the the couple of years that I've. openly talked about sort of my. antidepressant or my eating disorder and. ultimately I just want to say that I do. that because I want to help people feel. not so alone and that's also why like I. said I had started Andrew Pete with my. husband our mental health platform but. the thing is is I'm going through it as. I'm talking to all these people so. thank you and thank you for both having. me. Now you're definitely.

helping people not feel alone and your. vulnerability is definitely helping this. community so thank you so much. Thanks. All the more thank you thank you. thank you because you know therapists. for years decades have been wondering. how to solve this problem of how do we. get more people to understand that this. is something that anybody can benefit. from and it's really like this boom in. the past like 5 years or so where it's. becoming a bit more normalized to talk. about mental health. Sure. And that. conversation is only going to keep.

propelling in that direction because of. people like you because of people that. are willing to speak on these things and. be so open and vulnerable so I am very. grateful to you. You can have a whole. like thousands of therapists saying go. to therapy go to therapy but it's not as. powerful as a real life person who's not. a therapist talking about the benefits. that they've had so I really appreciate. you and your time too. Thanks. Yeah I want to thank everyone. who's been listening and watching. wherever you are in the world and. I'm hoping that this conversation this.

live therapy session that you got to. watch has encouraged you maybe taken. away some of those barriers taken away. some of those boundaries that you've. created towards therapy and made them. easier for you to cross or maybe sharing. this with a friend or family member who. may have barriers or boundaries of their. own and they can see how each and every. one of us can share our space our time. our energy and learn a bit more about. ourselves and even if that's all we.

achieve from that time how powerful it. can be in this journey of life. And so, I want to remind everyone. to keep coming back for these episodes, where we will be diving into a live. therapy session, so that you can get. that insight. And these episodes are. brought to you by BetterHelp, that are. helping millions of people by making. professional therapy more affordable and. accessible than ever. So, to see my top. reasons why you should try online. therapy, visit betterhelp.com. /jaystop3.

That's. top3. And when you do that, we're giving away. 10% off your first month of online. therapy when you sign up. So, I. encourage you all to do that, or. encourage you to recommend it to a. friend. And remember, you deserve to. invest in yourself, and BetterHelp is a. great way to start to do that. Thank. you, everyone. Thank you, Hesuan. Thank. you, Jamie, again. If you want even more. videos just like this one, make sure you.

subscribe and click on the boxes over. here. I'm also [music] excited to let. you know that you can now get my book, Think Like a Monk, from. thinklikeamonkbook.com. Check below in the description to make. sure you order today.