WEIGHT LOSS EXPERT: ''If You’re Counting Calories, You’re Doing It ALL WRONG'' (Do This Instead!)

Why is it so difficult to lose weight? >> Because your brain hates it when you. lose weight. You're fighting biology. Dr. Giles Yeo, welcome. Thank you so. much. So, if calories is such a myth, how come. so many people have used it as a. strategy for weight loss? People get so. obsessed with just the number that when. they're cutting calories, they're. considering the quality of the food that. they're eating. The major issue is not. the quantity, it is the quality. So, what truly is healthy? How do we.

know what healthy actually is? >> Calories are not all equal. For every. 100 calories of protein you eat, we are. only ever able to use 70 calories. Protein counts are 30% wrong everywhere. So, if you could encourage people to. change part of their diet, what should. they be focused on? >> Those are the three numbers I would use. Deploy it to your culture, your type of. diet. If you actually focus on those. three numbers, your diet will. automatically become healthier. >> So, we have to go do some shopping, which my wife will be very mad at me. for. I've brought things into this house.

that she would never allow me to have. >> You see here berries. These are called incidental virtuous. foods. Automatically made everyone lower. their calorie estimates by 10%. If you're predisposed because of your. genetics to being overweight, are you stuck? The number one health and wellness. podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The. one, the only Jay Shetty.

Hey everyone, welcome back to On. Purpose, the place you come to become. happier, healthier, and more healed. I'm. so grateful that you tuned back in. Make. sure you subscribe if you haven't. already. And today's guest, I know, is. going to be someone who's going to. answer a lot of your questions. We've. been reading the comments. I've been. reading all of the things that you've. been asking about, posting about when. you're sharing the podcast, and this. episode is dedicated to you. Today's. guest is Giles Yeo, a geneticist,

author, and professor at the University. of Cambridge, where he studies how our. genes influence hunger and body weight. He's the author of Gene Eating and Why. Calories Don't Count. This is the book. that we're discussing today. If you're. listening and you're loving the. information, go and grab your copy. And. he's one of the leading voices in. challenging diet myths through science. We all know there's a ton of diet myths. out there right now. Today we're going. to bust them. And Giles also hosts the.

podcast Choose the Fat. Go and subscribe. if you haven't already. Please welcome. to On Purpose Giles Yeo. Giles, it's. great to have you here. Jay, thanks so. much for having me. >> Yeah, I'm so grateful for the work. you're doing and excited to be educated. and illuminated, surprised today with. everything you have to share. But the. first thing I want to ask you, that I. want to dive in with you, is. do calories actually matter? The book. obviously says why calories don't count. Um and every time I say that, people.

think I'm anti-physics. But particularly. the gym bros, the the guys who are all. counting counting calories, they think. I'm anti-physics. I'm not anti-physics. I know that 200 calories of chips is. twice the portion of 100 calories of. chips. I do understand that. But so is. 200 g of chips twice the portion of 100. g of chips. And no one is trying to. compare 200 g of chips to 200 g of. carrots. I think ultimately that is it. So we eat food. Our body then extracts. the calories. And depending on what we. eat, your body has to work more or less.

hard. to extract the calories. So when does. our body have to work more hard, and. when does it have to work less hard? Primarily, if food has more protein in. it, and if food has more fiber in it, fiber only comes from plants obviously, then your body has to work harder in. order to get, you know, to get out the. carbs, get out the fat, and get and get. everything out of there. It's if there's. less protein and less fiber, then your. body finds it far easier to actually. extract those calories. Put.

simplistically. But that's not always. good for us. No, that's not always good. for us. That's not So So, I think it. depends why you need the calories, how healthy or unhealthy you are as you. are actually eating to get the calories. It probably was good for us 50,000 years. ago. Why? You can imagine if you've. taken down the antelope, okay, and and. you're sitting there and eating raw. meat, okay? You've taken really a lot of. energy to take the antelope, and you're. eating the raw meat, and so you're. getting a certain amount of calories. from it. Until someone suddenly invented. fire, okay? And so, when you then put.

the raw meat into the fire, you suddenly. have a kebab, okay? And you eat it. The. cooking makes it easier for your body to. extract the calories. So, in that sense, for X number of energy you've taken to. chase down the antelope, you're now. getting more energy, more calories. So, in that sense, it kept us alive. In. fact, people think that at the round the. time when we had fire and then suddenly. were able to cook food, that is when our. brain began to grow more, okay? Because.

we then had time not to always think. about food, but we could then get more. energy from the food that we were. currently eating. So, at that point, excellent. Today, less good. So So, if. calories is such a myth, how come so. many of the gym bros or the people have. used it as a strategy for weight loss. for so long? You know, calorie counting. has been around around for a long time. It has been around since the early. 1900s. There was a doctor called Lulu. Hunt Peters, based here Los Angeles,

okay? Los Angeles-based clinician in 19, whatever time, all right right after. World War II, larger lady, and she began. to realize that actually she needed to. lose weight, okay? And I realized. obesity wasn't a problem at the time, but she began to say that, you know. what, you can't imagine yourself. lighter. You have to really begin to. think about about how much you're. eating. And so calories were a new. science at the time. And what she did. was she decided that. I read the book. It's a good book. It's. You look up Lulu Hunt Peters. And what.

she would say is don't think about. eating a slice of pie. Don't think about. eating bacon. Think about eating 100. calories of pie. Think about eating 100. calories of bacon. And she published. this book, New York Times bestseller for. 5 years running, okay? In. 1917 or something like that. She was the. first calorie counter. The thing about. calories is sure, okay? If you are. cutting calories in a balanced way. So. say your diet is actually fine. But. you're eating too much of the diet, hence you have obesity. Well, then if. you then take a sort of a balanced way.

of reducing your calories, it does work. The problem we have today is people get. so obsessed with just the number that. calorie 400, 500, 600 that when they're. cutting calories, they are no no longer. cutting it either evenly, but they're also not even considering. the quality of the food that they're. eating. Just thinking, okay, if I'm only. have to have 400 calories, I'm going to. have it as a shake. I'm going to have it. as a this as a as a that rather than. thinking more in terms of nutritional.

quality of the food. That is my major. issue with calories. >> Right. So it's almost like the age-old. quantity versus quality issue. Absolutely. Quantity does matter to a. degree, clearly. Of course. But I think. today the major issue to my mind is not. the quantity, it is the quality. I think. our diets on average have not improved. So in fact they've gotten worse as a. quality of diet. We we get far more. calories now. Calories have never been. cheaper. In the UK, which is which is. where where where I'm based, you can get.

um you can get 1,000 calories of chips, French fries, okay? For less than a pound, okay? Which is. what? A dollar a buck 30 or something. like that. Excuse me, really? So it is. very cheap, but are they good for you? Okay, well, are do you those calories. really, really matter? Are you getting. all the micronutrients? Are you getting. everything that you actually need? Think. about the quality of the food, the. quantity. matters, but it's a secondary concern to. me. What is different between 500 calories.

of french fries, because that's probably. what it is, right? If it's fried as well. in the oil and everything that you add. to it, versus what would you compare. that to? In our head, what what are the mistakes. people are making when they're just. calorie counting? When they're only. looking at quantity, what are they. comparing to be equal almost that isn't. really equal from a micronutrient level? Let me give you a a more. an extreme example first, okay? The same. food. Uh corn on the cob, sweet corn. Now, if you had 100 calories of corn on. the cob. and then you.

you looked in the loo the next day, it's. quite clear you haven't absorbed. anywhere close to 100 calories of sweet. corn. But, when you take sweet corn, exactly. the same corn, you desiccate it, you. know, you you sort of you turn it into a. mush, or you make a tortilla, you make. cornbread, suddenly a far greater. percentage of the calories are made. available to you, but you always started with 100 calories. of sweet corn. Okay, so that so that is. a two thing where processing gets you. more calories. Think about a steak, okay? Where you have a steak, just a. normal steak, 400 calories of a steak,

say you cook medium rare. It's going to. take 5 minutes, 8 minutes to cook. Imagine that same steak murdered, okay? So, you then mince it up, you put it. into a ragu and bolognese sauce, which. you have to cook for 2 hours. Then you. layer that into a lasagna, you cook it. again for another 3 hours. Suddenly, the. same 400 calories has been cooked for 3. hours before you eat it. You're going to. get more calories out of that. Not more. than 400 calories, you just have to work. very hard to get the 400 calories, compared to getting something which has. been cooked for 3 to 4 hours. So, it's.

not. when you take the same food and think. about how you prepared a food, then the. different calorie counts then begin to. matter. The moment you then. cross-compare food, if you're trying to. compare chips. to a steak, that is very, very difficult to to to do. because now you're talking about. there's iron in steak, you know, there's. obviously a lot of protein in steak, and. there are some fat in steak as well. All. all these things that are happening. Whereas, if you're now looking at a at. at you know, French fries,

there's a lot of fat. Obviously, there's. a lot of carbohydrates. There's nothing. wrong with carbohydrates. We need. carbohydrates. But, four to 500 calories. of each of them very, very, very. different. Mhm. And and you're saying. that most of us look at them as the same. because we're looking at quantity, we're. ultimately saying 500 calories of this. and 500 calories of this. Now, you got. to go certainly it's true in the UK as. well. I think it's true here in the US. You go to any of the big food manufac-. not manufacturers, the restaurants, okay? Big chain restaurants. And you. open it up and you see the calorie.

counts. Now, when you see the calorie. counts by the meal, you're going. No, this is 1,000 calories. I don't eat. that. Oh, wait a minute. I'm going to go. with this one. It's got 800 calories. It's 200 calories. And most people just. look at that and don't even really. consider, well, is it 800 calories of a. salad versus this? How much dressing in. the salad? No one is thinking about. these things when they're just comparing. the 800 versus the 1,000 and thinking, I'm going for 800 because that is. healthier because it's a smaller number. And a lot of us do this.

That's the danger of obsessing over one. individual number. So, what truly is. healthier? How do we. How do we know what healthy actually is? That is a very difficult question. because it depends. Now, clearly, if you are a child, um clearly, if you are an Olympic. athlete and exercising, or if you are an. old person um in a hospital in bed, you. know, and and you you're trying very, very difficult to to to absorb calories. Then, from that specific uh scenario,

you need a lot of energy that you can. metabolize easily. Okay? Now, if you're. Joe Schmo like me, sat on the couch, okay? Or if you're doing or you're an. office worker, well, then your needs, what is considered healthy, then becomes. very, very different to someone else. So, what is healthy really does depend. not only on who you are in terms of your. age, your ethnicity, you know, your sex, right? But it also does matter what. you're doing at the time. So, it does. depend. When did obesity start to become.

a real problem and why? It's obviously a. spectrum. I don't think suddenly one day. we woke up and said, "Ah, it's it's it's. obesity." I think people began. collecting numbers in the United States. in particular in around 1984. So, if you. go back and look, prior to 1984, there. were there was not a great deal of data. Obviously, some people were still. collecting data. There had always been. people who had obesity. This is not a. unique thing, but very few. Around 1984, and and coincidentally, that's also when. Domino's Pizza made it to um.

to to the UK. We'll leave that alone. Okay, for from um from that but 1984. appears to be the ground zero for when. people begin to collect data. And so, I think that most people accept. that the mid-80s was when we began to. see a problem, and it's only gotten. worse and worse since the mid-80s. When. was the rise of fast food? When did that. really begin? Do you know? I'm intrigued. now. So, I think the first true Well, depends what you mean by fast food, right? because the.

>> like when we just started to be able to. go buy a burger or buy a pizza in the. same way as you said. >> So, the first the first of the big fast. food manufacturers was obviously well, one of the first was McDonald's, okay? >> McDonald's, yeah. Ray Kroc McDonald's, and I think there's a movie about that, right? It's a great movie. It is a great. movie. >> how it's fine, how they worked it out. Yeah. But he didn't set out to make. unhealthy food. Right. >> He was setting out to make a consistent. uh product that people could afford and. enjoy to eat. Okay? And at the time, obesity wasn't a problem. So, trying to.

increase access to foods that at the. time were only available to people with. more money, you know, was a positive. thing. As we begin to come to value. convenience more, and also, oddly. enough, begin to value portion sizes. more. I like a big steak like anybody. else. But now, portion size has also. overwhelmingly become um you know, part. of the goodness of a meal. So, it's very. very difficult to to to to say, but I. think it went drip drip drip drip drip.

and then suddenly we're in a situation. we are now. Then boosted, I want to. point out, completely boosted by the. Deliveroos and Uber Eats of the world. Where suddenly where at least Okay, in. fact, let's back away. First of all, you. could drive through. Okay, so that was. probably the first of the true. conveniences. Oh, I I I can drive. through. Okay, you don't even get out of. your car. Then I think then we obviously. had the situation. Then there's super. size me. There's Do you know, can I. where actually was a marketing ploy. where you can add that in.

Then you have Deliveroo, Uber Eats, where now you don't have to get off your. couch. I can go beep beep beep beep and. someone will actually deliver the food. to my door. It has been ample. So, each. step has amplified it more till today. we're sat here. If we wanted to eat what. whatever, I mean, we do it 20 minutes. suddenly we'll have a whole fast food, you know, feast um um in front of us. So, I think it wasn't one single thing, but each of these each of these things. suddenly increased uh our ability and. ease of getting of getting these foods.

The foods also became cheaper. Yeah. That's the problem today. Yeah, and so. since we've started measuring. we are putting on more weight. We are. Yeah. We are we are putting on weight. >> as a whole, on the whole we're just. pretty humans are just putting on more. weight. >> We are putting more on more weight and. not in an unhealthy And exactly, and not. the good weight, you know, we're not. putting on we're not putting on muscle. Interestingly, actually if you go back. to the time when we were working more. physical jobs, none of us really worked. physical, you know what I mean, we're we.

sat on our backsides and doing things. We have dishwashers and and and stuff. like that. Actually, if you go around to. the turn of the 18th to the 19th. century, Victorian times, people were. probably eating more calories then. Actually, physically more cal but but. people were doing coal mining, they were. working in you know, in the steel mills. and and etc. etc. So, they would. probably on average, certainly in. Victorian era in um in the UK, people. were doing 3,000 average calories a day, but that's because they were coal. miners. That's because they were washing. clothes. That's That's because they were.

doing everything else. So, we on average. are probably eating fewer calories, but. where they come from have really really. changed, all right? The type of food. we're eating. See, calories are not all. equal. If you know you need to lose. weight for whatever reason, then what. you've got to do to foot the easiest. thing to do, okay? Don't go take a. genetic test anything like that. It's. free, okay? Is be honest with why you. eat when you eat. The reason these drugs. are good is because they're powerful and. they work. The reason these drugs are. bad is because they're powerful and they.

work for everybody. They make you feel. fuller, whether or not you're 300 lb. looking to lose 100, or whether or not. you are a 16-year-old girl who's 75 lb. That is the problem. It will still make. you eat less. They're not cosmetic. drugs. The marker that most predicts. your healthspan is the amount your. percent your ratio to muscle to fat. heading into your late 60s and into your. 70s. The more muscle mean lean mass you. actually have going in particular into. your 70s, the healthier you're likely to.

be. Do you want healthy, great-looking. skin without spending a ton of time on. it? If you answered yes, and let's be. honest, who wouldn't, Dove Men Plus Care. Body and Face Scrub is your ultimate. hack for effortless skin care. When I. say hack, I mean it. This scrub does it. all. Exfoliates, cleanses, and. moisturizes all in one simple step. No. extra steps, no hassle, just better. looking skin made easy. Plus, it's made. with natural essential oils. It's vegan. and free from parabens and sulfates.

Designed specifically for men's skin, so. it does exactly what you need it to. The. best part? It's easy. Your skin will. look better, feel better, and it won't. take up more than a moment of your day. Just hack your grooming routine and add. the Dove Men Plus Care scrub into your. shower. You say the body digests. obviously carbs, fats, and proteins. absolutely differently. >> Correct. Why is that important and tell. us the difference? >> Okay, the three things. So, these are. obviously fats the macronutrients, okay? So, fat, carbs, and protein are.

primarily made. In fact, fats and carbs. are only made of three atoms. Okay, so. carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen, but in. different configurations, okay? Protein, however, has carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen, but it's also full of. nitrogen. About 16% of protein is. nitrogen. So, whenever our body is. dealing with the stuff, it is far easy. easier for your body to digest. and then metabolize, which is two. different steps, right? So, digestion. means the food uh is converted fat is. converted to fatty acids, protein is. converted to amino acids, and and carbs.

are converted to sugars unless you're. eating sugars. And then it passes across. the gut wall. That is digestion. That's. what That's when that happens. Metabolism is when those individual. amino acids, fatty acids, sugars are. transported to the cell, and your cell. then converts it to energy. That's. metabolism. So, each of those two stages. takes time, takes energy, and your body. has to invest energy into it. So, protein is the most complicated. So, for. every 100 calories of protein you eat,

pure protein calories, we are only ever. able to use 70 calories, 7 0. So, protein counts are 30% wrong everywhere. because we give it off as heat as as. part of the energy we put in to sorting. out to sorting out protein. Fats is. nearly 100% available, so to speak, because because it's very very dense. Carbs, this is where the fiber comes in. So, if you have refined carbohydrates, no, if you have sugar, if you have. sugar, that's 98 99% available. Okay, so. let's not ignore sugar, but sugar is a.

very simple carbohydrate. But if we have. something starchy, now if you had white bread, so so so. polished where the fiber has been. stripped out, then it probably takes. five calories for every 100, so 5% to. deal with carbohydrates without fiber. Whereas if you put in fiber, if you have. whole meal, if what have you, then it. takes 10% of energy to deal with with. it. Don't your body is just just dealing. with it. So, calorie counts are probably. 5 to 10% wrong everywhere because of the.

amount of energy it takes to metabolize. these macronutrients. Yeah, I think you. said that you write that we absorb fewer. calories from almonds than the packaging. actually says. Yes. Far far far far far. fewer. Explain that. So, because almonds. are, you know, they're ate a whole food, you've got to bite through them, there's. obviously fiber in them, there's all. kinds of things. And so, what Okay, in. fact, let's back away. So, how do we. count calculate how many calories there.

are in a in in in a product? Okay. A guy called Atwater, and this Atwater. was a professor of biochemistry in. Connecticut um between 1880 and 1900. So, this is this is a while ago, okay? He used a technique called bomb. calorimetry. And in in in effect, what. you do is you take food, you burn it in. a sealed container, and then you measure. how much heat it gives off through a. this water and the temperature. So, how. much heat it goes up. So, one calorie is. the amount of temperature it takes to. raise 1 L of water.

1° C. at sea level. So, that's a calorie. And. so, what he did, Atwater did, was he. took almonds, celery, carrots, steak, he. burnt them and figured out how many. total calories were in there. He also knew how much fat and protein. He then fed the almonds, carrots and to. people and then he burnt their poop. Okay, for for 20 years he did this. And. from there, that is where he came up. with the Atwater general factor. So, for. all of us who've done high school. biology, four calories for a gram of.

carb, four calories for for a gram of. protein. Um and nine calories for a gram. of fat. So, that came from Atwater and. and is and and you know, and what it was. doing. The issue is obviously that when. you actually burn all of it, everything. goes away and so all the calories are. there. Whereas when you have to. metabolize it and it goes into your. body, then your body begins to. metabolize, energy has to go in in order. to extract stuff out. I'll give you. another example actually, celery.

Okay? Now, celery famously people have. said has a negative calories. That's not. quite true. >> Okay, don't make me hate celery. I don't want to hate celery. >> no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. If you cook that stick, however, you. chop it up, you put it to a stew, what. have you, suddenly cooking it, you get. 30 calories from it. The celery? The. exactly the same stick of celery. Right. You're not adding energy to it, it's. because the fiber and everything like. that is just very difficult to extract.

calories out. Whereas when you cook it. and you process it, Mhm. okay? Suddenly. it's easier for you to get that calorie. out. So, therefore an almond, which is. not a processed item, right? Because the. only thing you've done is you you taken. off the skin, okay? And then you eat it. Now, if you make almond milk, if you if. you if you actually put down and and and. and put an almond powder and do things. like that, then you begin to get more. calories out of the out of the almond. Got it. So, I have to ask you this. because every summer Mhm.

a lot of people from the States will go. to Europe and they'll say I ate pasta, I. ate I ate pizza and I lost weight. But. when I eat that in America, it's never. going to happen. Is that true? Like why is it that people feel when. they go to Europe, they can eat all the. things, they can eat bread, they can eat. pasta and they're not putting on weight, they're not feeling the same. >> I think they're probably two different. reasons for that. Okay. So I think first. of all I think they're walking more. Because because when you go when you go. to Europe and you're doing anything, you're not going to drive around Rome, right? I mean you're going to be you're.

going to be walking, you're going to be. doing this. So I think there's a walking. element here. Try and walk around here. in in LA, impossible. So I think there's. probably that as well. But everything. there is made by hand and from scratch. No, I that's not a lot I that's. obviously you can go to. fast food places as well. But if you're. going to Rome or you're going to Sicily, you're going to go to the mom and pop. shop. You're going to go to to what. they're doing. Exactly, the local. places. And so they would have cooked. the food for less, they would have used. other techniques. And so things just you.

you are going to get less calories out. because they're less processed. Processing of food, there's nothing. wrong with processed foods per se. because everything that you do to a food. is processed. So cooking is a process, fermentation is a process. Ultra processing, the super processing. of food, that's another story entirely. because obviously what then happens to. those are industrial processes. And I. think a lot of the food that we eat, 50%. of the calories, okay, that we get. certainly in the UK as well and in the. US, 50% come from pre-packaged foods,

okay, our so-called quote unquote. ultra-processed foods. This is less so. in somewhere like like like Italy. They're more likely to make the pizza. from scratch. You're more likely no. one's going to serve you a frozen pizza. You're going to get it, it's going to. come out of the oven. It's going to be. fed to you. The pasta's going to be. dried in a specific way, they're going. to be doing all kinds of things. So I. think the way they make the food does. matter, but you need to then take that. into account that if you're on holiday. in Europe, you're probably walking as. well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, because I. think it's you just hear it all the time.

and I'm like, wait, is this is this. true? And even even my wife says, I. mean, when we saw the difference in. water quality, even in England versus. here, food quality for sure. So much stuff. Bread quality. Bread. quality for sure. Is it that everything. here is being ultra-processed? Is that. your challenge? Like I just normal foods being like what. about tomatoes and they taste different? Like I remember one year I was in. when I spent more time in India, I remember the vegetables just taste. different. Like they have flavor.

Whereas here every cucumber tastes the. same. You won't you won't notice. anything different. >> Okay, so I think that flavor really. really does matter. I think. nutritionally, I mean people say that. the. the vegetables here or if you grow them. in a certain way, you get less nutrients. from them. That's probably overstating. it. I don't think that's necessary. >> Interesting. I do think, however, that. if you are if you're growing vegetables, first of all, using more natural. techniques rather than intensive. techniques, you are going to get less. pesticides and less things. So I I just. on that, that's better for you already,

right? Because you're not eating so many. chemicals. I do think that they are more intense in. flavor, okay? And does flavor mean more. minerals and more and more things? Probably a little bit of that. But. ultimately, I don't think the vegetables. here are bad for you. They just are not. as tasty and depending on what you're. eating, I think are going to be full of. pesticides and and and and other things. that we probably don't want to eat that. much of. I don't think that actually. there there fewer good things in the. vegetables here. They just don't taste. as nice. Yeah. How is it that another.

thing I hear a lot is, "Hey, I'm eating the same exact thing as this. other person over here, but they have a six-pack and I can't. even lose weight. Why is that happening?" I'm sure you. hear this, too. I do. I do hear this. I. do. So an there is an element of truth. there that we deal with calories. differently. So there are two there are. two elements um of it. So obviously. there's there's you can break down why. someone gains weight into a number of. different things. First of all, how much. do they eat? That is my expertise.

That's primarily what I study. But even. if you ate exactly the same thing, once. it gets into you, there are two. elements. There's first of all, the your. efficiency. So in other words, for every. given calorie, how many for amount of. protein, for whatever you, how efficient. are you. at at releasing the calories? That's. going to differ between you and me. That's the first thing. The second thing. is what we call nutrient partitioning. So when it comes in, how much do you. burn, how much do you store? And. crucially, when you store it, where do. you store it? And so all of those have.

genetic elements to it, which means that. they they they explain differences. between different people. And so. undoubtedly, it's going to be the case. where some people can eat more than. someone else and not actually gain as. much weight. The six-pack element to it. probably overstated. The six-pack. element would would would would be. obviously be a more of an exercise and. thing. But yes, it is true that people. can eat more and maintain the same. weight as other people. Okay. Mhm. And. what what do I do about that? Cuz that. obviously doesn't feel good when you're. like, "Hey, I'm trying to do the thing. I'm trying to I think it is not the.

reason for the obesity epidemic that. we're facing. That is down to eating. I think that the energy expenditure and. the metabolism, these things play a. small role. Um that we have nothing that that we. there's very little we can actually do. about it, right? Because the own. Interestingly, the easiest way to. increase your metabolism is to gain. weight. And people think it's. counterintuitive, right? Right, Brian? But if you take a mini as a small tiny. mini car, it is always going to have a. lower fuel consumption than a big SUV,

okay? Ultimately, that's that that's the. case. So the easiest way to increase. your energy expenditure is to gain. weight, but then that's not the aim of. the game. And the other thing is when. you lose weight, your body also reduces. its metabolism, right? So that is that. that is going to be an issue. So. the only way is to try and increase your. metabolism temporarily. There's no. There are no foods that can increase. your metabolism. Coffee probably does it. briefly, okay? Chillis don't do that, okay? It briefly. Exercise is probably. the thing that most effectively.

increases your metabolism, at least. temporarily, so when you're doing it and. then there's a tail off as you stop, so. you're continuing burning. That's the. first thing. And second is building. muscle mass because your muscle, your. lean mass, is more metabolically active. than fat mass. So you could be of the. same weight, but if you have more muscle. in your body as a as a ratio, then you. will have a higher metabolism. But your. underlying metabolism, if you divide. your metabolism by the amount of muscle. you're carrying, that cannot change.

That that won't change until you get. older. So ultimately, that's what you're. trying to do. You're trying to say, "Well, okay, I've got a lower metabolism. than you, for example." Well, then maybe. I need to make sure I gain a bit more. muscle to sort of to sort of mitigate. against that. >> Got it. Mhm. So how does someone get rid. of that stubborn belly fat? See, that's an excellent question. And. you cannot direct. where you lose fat. It's very very very. very very frustrating. So you know, you. go to classes and there's booty busting. and there's what have you and they're. woo, you know. But.

And you know what the the deal is? The only way to get rid of the belly fat. is to. eat less and probably exercise more as. as well. And people are going, "What I. want I'm coming onto this podcast to. hear that." It is because it's because. it's it's physics, okay? It's difficult to do, but it's physics. No, your your weight will go onto where. genetically it's going to go and will. come off from that. You know, what's the. size of your boobs? What's the size of. your bum? What's the size of your belly? People wish they could direct where they.

get the weight loss from. I want it from. my tummy. You know, for example, when I. gain weight, I know I get a bit jolly. Okay, this is where it goes on first. My. wife always tells me this. Why? No clue. No clue. And it's also it does go off. first when I begin to lose weight. >> Mhm. But so you it's very difficult to. get rid of the stubborn fat by trying to. do sit-ups. But what you have to do is. you do actually have to sort of shift. your eating patterns in order to lose. belly fat. Let's talk about the genetics. piece, because I think that's the hard. part. If you're predisposed. because of your genetics to being.

overweight, are you stuck? If you are predisposed. genetically to to to eating more because. you are more driven to to food for for a. number of different reasons, then it. will always be harder for you to lose. weight. Okay? Ultimately, that is true. There's no need to sugarcoat it. But I guess the analogy I'll use is. this. I will never ever be able to run. as fast as Usain Bolt. Okay? Because. it's my genes. But it doesn't mean that if I train, I.

won't run faster than I do now. So I. think ultimately that's it, right? None. of us here are going to become an. Olympic athlete, but if we train, we'll. get fitter, we'll get better. And so. you've got to sort of deal with the. genes. You have to You can't blame it. You can blame your parents. That's where. the genes have come from. But. ultimately, you deal with the hand of. cards you have. I wish I looked like. Brad Pitt, but there are many many. reasons why that is not going to happen, right? And so you do you deal with the. hand of cards you are dealt. But even. with a more difficult. hand of cards, so to speak, a more.

difficult set of genes when it comes to. being overweight, it doesn't mean that. you can't do anything about it. What are. you seeing in terms of gene limitations? Do you see demographics having certain. gene limitations and drawbacks compared. to others? Like I know as a South Asian. man, generally putting on weight is. easy, building muscle is hard. And a lot. of South Asian men will have that. conversation with each other and say, "Hey, it's we it's quite easy for us to. be lean and skinny, but it's easy to put. on weight around our stomach." Like you.

said you put on What What do What do you. see when you look at the genes and the. genetic research? >> So the genes telling us why people gain. weight tend to be quite universal. So, the eating too much genes. Mhm. Where. the different ethnicities come from. comes into the consequences of gaining. that weight. There Yes, there's muscle. building. There's There's You're right, right? Because Chinese people I'm. ethnically I'm Chinese. We're smaller. framed individuals. We too cannot get. that much weight gain that much weight. before we actually tilt into disease.

So, but the genes underlying why we eat. are quite universal. Okay? But, why we. get specific diseases very very. genetically driven very ethnically. driven. As you said, South Asian East. Asians, the moment we don't have to go. anywhere close to a BMI of 30 and we are. suddenly increasing our risk of a number. of different metabolic diseases. So, we. compared to white people who can always. get a bit more weight compared to. Polynesians. A colleague of mine. actually, I was in New Zealand giving a.

a lecture and I saw there's a big South. Asian diaspora in New Zealand. And so, I. saw a diabetologist a diabetes doctor. who's who is South Asian giving a talk. in which she was comparing. BMI and rates of type 2 diabetes in the. local Polynesian population versus the. South the South Asian diaspora and the. local Polynesian population could get to. something like nearly twice the BMI. before actually reaching the same risk.

of type 2 diabetes. It is down to I. guess how much muscle you can put on a. little bit. It's down to how much fat we. all can store safely. And so, that is a. crucial bit of bit of information. How. much fat can you store safely? Can I. store safely? The safest place to store fat is in your. fat cells. Okay? They're like balloons. They go bigger, they go smaller. You. don't gain fat cells. But, they get full. And the moment they. get full, that's when the fat goes into. your liver, your muscles, places that.

are not designed to store fat in higher. amount in large amounts. And that's when. you become ill. So, that very very. genetic. And it also comes with body. shape. Where you put your fat also. matters, right? Because then you can. look at different populations and. realize, "Oh my god, all these people. are completely different shapes." They. are. Because where you put your fat also. influences how much fat you can store. safely. So, that bit. very genetic. Yeah, so if you could. encourage people to change part of their. diet, what should they be focused on?

And what are the mistakes that you think. people are making right now when it. comes to what we eat, what we put into. our mouths? What are the mistakes people. are making and what would you encourage. people to think about differently if it. isn't calories? Then it is a very very. culturally specific. But I think there's. a probably some universal rules in in in. order to in order to follow. You know, like a lot of South Asians, well, I. mean, there are a lot of vegetarians in. South Asia. People in the Mediterranean. eat Mediterranean diet. Try delivering a. Mediterranean diet to Texans. That's. just not going to happen. So, culturally. it it it does make a difference. I do.

think there's some. sim- relatively simple {quote} rules. I. hate to use the word rules. I think we. need to eat enough protein, I think most. importantly. So, I think about 16% of. the energy in your diet needs to come. from protein. It is possible to eat too. much because. we have to use the protein we eat. If we. don't use it, we don't store protein, okay? All the muscles in us the all the. protein in our body is active. So, if you eat a lot of protein, but. don't use it, it gets converted to fat, Mhm. okay? And it begins to stress out.

your kidneys and stuff as well, right? And your and your and your liver. Unless you're lifting or doing some or. doing something else. So, 16% protein, okay? You need We need to eat way more. fiber. Way more fiber. We need to double. the amount of fiber we we eat. Fiber. only comes from fruit and vegetables. So, we pretty much need to double the. amount of fruit and vegetables that we. that we actually eat. And we probably. need to limit the free sugars we eat. Now, free sugars are sugars sugar. anything that's been detached from.

fiber. So, orange juice is a free sugar. Uh honey is a free sugar. Maple syrup is. is is a free sugar. We probably need to. >> stuff. All the good stuff. But, that the. sugar's all the same. It tastes nicer. for any number of different reasons. But, all the good stuff. You need. probably needs a limited limited to 5%. of energy or less. Now, if you take. those three numbers, right? 16% of. protein. uh 30 g double the amount of fiber and. keep those free sugars you you can eat. as much fruit and vegetables as you. want. But, free sugars are 5% or less.

You can deploy it to any culture. Because the protein I'm not only talking. steaks, right? I mean, this is what. people think here when I say protein. steaks. But, no. I mean, tofu, beans, vegeta- it doesn't matter the source of. the protein. Those are the three numbers. I would use. Deploy it to your culture, your type of diet you wish to you wish. to actually eat. Then, obviously, you. can tweak it. But, I think if you. actually focus on those three numbers, I. think it's your your diet will. automatically become healthier. >> So, 16% protein, 30% fiber. >> 30 g fiber.

>> 30 g. >> So, double the amount of fiber. We're at. on average on average in the United. States and North America and United. States and in the UK, we're probably. only having 15 g of fiber a day. It's. difficult. I think this is part of the problem of. of of focusing on calories is that I. What does that mean when I tell you 16%. protein and what have you? So, I. I do these things. I I speak to to to. people like you. I speak to industry. I. do this to try and push back and say, "Can we highlight different things on. your pre-packaged food?" I mean,

highlighting the calories useless, right? Whereas, if you highlight how. much protein it is, how much, you know, fiber is in it, how much free sugars. in a traffic light system or something. I think that's easier for you to. actually to actually do. Let's actually. talk about that. So, we had to go do. some shopping which my wife will be very. mad at me for because I've brought. things into this house that she would. never allow me to have in the house. And. so I'm going to make sure that I give. this out to someone else afterwards. because. >> Don't give it to me. if she thinks I've. been eating it, she'll be mad. But we. brought in some products that people are.

eating because I think partly the issue. is when you go out and you buy. something, once you're educated, so my. wife trained me in this and I want to. help pass it on and learn from you as. well in how to actually read food. labels. >> Because I used to just be like, "Yeah, that's 50 calories. I'll have that. That's 100 calories. It's easy." So I'm. going to throw you some products and. uh you know, you can tell us whether. this is actually healthy or not and just. walk us through all the packaging on the. front and the back. So a couple of. things about about this. So before. before we start, I I I think I see where.

this is going. All right. One of the things that annoys me the. most about food and advertising for food. is the health halo. All right? This is. this is what we're talking about, the. health halo. No one thinks that drinking. Coca-Cola and eating thingies is healthy. for you, but we do it because it's a. treat. We do it. But I'm not thinking. I'm having a health treat. And so most. of us take the precautions. Now if you No one thinks that when you. get a. many tortilla chip brands are available.

Let's look at this one. First of all, it's green in packaging. It has this. I am green, okay? From all the things. Okay. Tortilla style protein chips. What. the freaking hell is that? That's a. Let's see where the protein comes from. Okay, I don't know. Does it tell you. where the protein comes from? They added uh milk protein isolate whey. protein. So they're trying to increase the amount. of protein you actually get and so hence.

they're telling you that this is a. healthier option, but you're still. eating a tortilla chip, right? If you. look at the It's still fried, right? It. is. Let's have a look at the back here. I'm. not It should be fried. I mean, sometimes they bake it, I guess, but. tortillas tend to be fried. Oh, this this one says it's baked. Okay. So that does So that does make make make. make a difference. But it is still a It. is still a But they're trying to sell. this as a health food. Okay? And you. would say it's not a health food. I. don't I am not anti tortilla chips.

But I know why they've done the the. packaging as they've done here. So. people will go and says, "Oh, these are. the terrible tortilla chips. I'm going. to buy this one because these are going. to be tortilla chips that are going to. be better for me because it's in a green. packaging and because it says high. protein high protein for it." So. I don't know. You know, it's still a. tortilla chip. >> Yeah. >> And and and ultimately So this is the. kind of thing What is the difference. between baked and fried? Because I don't. I speak to a lot of people about this. and I don't think they people even think.

to think about that. >> So baked would mean that you use less. oil. Okay? And because things like tortilla. chips and potato chips and and all the. kinds of things you you you you get are. very porous. So in other words, they. absorb a lot of fat to crisp up. Okay? A. fried tortilla will taste better than a. baked tortilla. So undoubtedly they'll. have they'll have more more more fat. I'm not saying that this isn't slightly. better for you. It's still not a health. food though. So that's the difference. The difference is that when you fry. something, it more of the fat gets.

absorbed into it. Whereas you bake it, you sort of you do put oil in it. You. have to because otherwise It's like. using an air fryer. Why do you use an. air fryer? You use an air fryer because. you put in a little bit of oil. It then. heats up the oil and then mists the oil. So so that what you're doing is you're. frying with less oil. That's why you're. getting You're getting less of the fats. that that that that are actually. out there. Got it. Okay. I'm going to. pull out some more. We got a lot of bags. of chips in here, but let me let this. one out. Oh. All right. So this is.

shredded wheat. Okay, let's have a look at this. actually. Now they're always Oh, wait a. minute. This is. So if you look at So a couple of things. before we go to the back. Whenever you. look at a cereal, you see here, for. example, in the front, berries. All right? >> No one ever does that. >> No one ever does it. I mean, I have. shredded wheat. I'm not I'm not against. this, but I eat it. Do you know what. these things are called within the. within the field of of sort of food. science? These are called. incidental virtuous foods. Okay? So,

someone did an experiment where what. they did was they asked a few thousand. people, all right? And they put a. burger, just a normal standard burger. And they asked everyone to sort of. estimate how many calories are in the. burger. And you know, obviously you get. people getting it right, people getting. it completely wrong. Then, they took the. burger and they put a stick of celery. next to the burger. That stick of. celery, same burger, that stick of. celery. automatically made everyone lower, on.

average, their calorie estimates by 10%. Just the presence of it. Now, if you In. fact, we'll go back to that. We'll go back to the chip. Okay? So, here is a tortilla chip, and obviously. there there is lime, there's chili. I. appreciate they probably flavored it for. summer. Nevertheless, but here, cereal. is is one of these things. That's why. the berries. are there. Go into your favorite. supermarket, look anything you buy. Once. again, this is not anti-shredded wheat, okay? Anything you buy, they'll always.

have these things because it. automatically makes it a virtuous food. Why do people, when you watch a an. advert or or something, why is there a. little bit of coriander, watercress, you. know, over the steak? Like, really? It is incidental virtuous. foods. Okay. So, so that that's the. first thing to to to know. >> really great now. Now, if you didn't. look in the back, uh let's look at the. sugar. I mean, this may be perfectly. healthy. I'm not entirely sure. Okay, so. this this has no added sugar, which is. fine, which is good. Um so, I I do think.

that that's the one thing you want to. you want to look at. >> So, that's when When reading a label. >> When you're reading a label, what do you. want to focus on? Now clearly this is. shredded wheat. I'm not eating this for. protein. Okay, so you can look at the. back of the protein, but the amount of. protein on here. uh where does it say polyunsaturated. mono. Where's the protein? I bet you there's no Oh no, there is. protein here. So 7 g of 7 g of protein, so that's quite high. Surprisingly high. for for the amount of stuff that is. here. What you want to do however on. this is not worry too much about the. protein because you're eating a shredded.

wheat, is to look at the sugar. Because oh my god, I mean if you. actually look at some of the cereals, including some varieties of shredded. wheat, you may as well be eating a. chocolate bar as far as I can gather. The amount of sugar The amount of sugar. that that that's in there. So this you. would look at it and broadly speaking is. probably a relatively healthy thing to. eat. Mhm. Got it. >> Okay, except for the incidental virtuous. foods. All right, very good. Well, you spoke. about this earlier, so let's take a look. at it. We might as well. Okay, OJ.

Now. what makes it light? Very interesting. So let me Yeah, what does it say on it? Tell us. It's an orange juice which That. tells us it's. >> 50% less sugars and calories than OJ. Then how did they make it? Cuz OJ is OJ. should be OJ. You should take juice, you. squeeze it out, maybe you put some heat. in it to to make sure it lasts longer. What have they done to it to reduce the. amount of sugar and calories. Ah, so. what they've done here to first of all. is they have concentrated the orange.

juice. So in other words, they have just. This is in effect orange juice mixed. with water. So can I say something? Can I please say something? Save your. cash. Buy an actual bottle of If you want to. drink orange juice, buy an actual bottle. of orange juice and dilute it with. water. Same effect. Because it says here. the first thing on here is filtered. water. First ingredient ingredient list. It's fine, okay, but now you're buying. half the amount of orange juice for the. same amount of cash, whereas you could. buy exactly the same amount of orange. juice and use water. Now, what else is. there? Okay, now let's have a look.

No pulp. Why is this a good thing? So, here's. here's the issue with OJ, right? So, OJ, the full concentrated OJ, has the same in fact let's we'll read it. out just to make sure. So, total. carbohydrates here are 10% okay? So, so. 5% so it has 5% because it's half. Coca-Cola has a sugar content about 11%. okay? In a in a can of Coca-Cola. So, OJ. actually has the same amount of sugar as. Coca-Cola. This is diluted we've already. established this.

And it's the same sugar. It's not. because it's natural sugar it's. healthier for you. You squeeze it out of. the you squeeze it out of the orange. So, the pulp was the only good thing about. this. And there's probably vitamin C and. stuff. But this the pulp was the only. good thing because that was the fiber. So, what this has said is that we have. made extra sure there is no fiber in. this orange juice. That's what this is. selling you okay? I I have no problems with with OJ as a. as a small thing. But people think it's. a health food and people would then. drink a ton of this. And you have to treat it like you're.

drinking a high sugar drink. Eat the orange. Because when you eat the. orange you're chewing it there's fiber. your body takes longer to release the. sugar. Exactly the same amount of sugar. because orange juice actually comes from. comes from there. You get a lot more. goodness out of eating the orange. If. you have to drink orange juice, drink. you know, do it in moderation. This is a waste of money because as it. says in the back it's diluted orange. juice. For Pete's sake. So, so, so. This is good analysis. This is useful.

This is useful. All right. All right, this is fun. All right, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is fun. Let's do this. I love to do this one cuz this. These are great. Where did you get these. from? This is a These are all from I. won't say who they are. Now, no Yeah. Just can I please say dried apricots? The these are wonderful for you okay? Because obviously uh full of fiber. And. yeah, you might say, "Well, aren't they.

high in sugar?" Yeah, but then they're. all tied up in the fiber. They're And. how much are you are you really going to. eat anyway? Wonderful for you. Okay? You. shouldn't need. to enhance it with any probiotic. apricots. Now, what have they made it so. So, probiotic. means there's prebiotic and there's. probiotic. And prebiotic is adding. fiber, probiotic is taking the bugs. Cuz. this is what confused me when I was. looking at this. So, this is probiotic. because they've taken normal apricots, which has full of fiber, and added. bacteria. Now, this sounds a bit dodgy.

because they're telling me that the the. bugs cannot be alive. I don't think because they're in this. thing. What is the shelf life of this? It looks. >> Okay, March 2026. It's sterile, right, in here. So, they say they put the bugs. in, but the bugs cannot be alive. So, it. is not going to be probiotic. if the bugs are dead. And they have to. be dead because this thing is not going. to rot. in a sealed container. and it's good till March 2026.

So, this, the bugs have got to be alive. When you're eating yogurt, a yogurt, if. you're eating, you know, kombucha, the. bugs are alive. That is why they work. because they pass You need You need. those actually to to to survive the gut. and go in in order to survive. These are. dead bugs. They won't be as Interesting. Wow. Wow. I love how shocked you are right now. All right, let's do this. This is the. last one cuz I've done all the other. versions of this, but.

Okay, let's let me just let me see I. want to let me let me see what the back. is. Preserving, so 65 g. Holy cow. All. right. So, this is a bar. Now, I know. what this is. This is what a gym bar is, right? But But if you actually look at. the First of all, it tells you the. amount of protein. So, they're selling. this as a health food bar by its very. definition because we're not we're not. dealing with it. But if you actually. look at the at the back, yes, there's. more protein in it, okay, for that, but. it's 22% sugar. It's 22% sugar, okay, 14% fat, of which.

13% is saturated fat, okay, and the. protein amount. is 13% protein. So actually, I'm saying we need 16% is. already below the actual what you should. be eating in your in your total diet. anyway. I don't understand this bar. I. do understand it if you are take taking. it as a recovery bar. Fair, okay, if. you've just done a workout, or if you're. maybe a cycling, you're trying to do. that. I can dig that. The problem is if it's there in a. supermarket shelf and you're coming in.

thinking this is going to be healthy for. me, but you're not working out, you're. not doing any buying eat it, this is far. worse for you than eating a chocolate. bar, unless you're exercising at the. same time. >> Yeah, I mean the sugar in that's high. 22? >> It's really high, yeah. It's high. Oh my. god, is this even edible? I mean, it's. only I I used to So I used to eat those. nearly every day until I looked at the. back. No, no, no, until I looked at the. back. >> Then you went, "Dude.". >> Yeah, and I realized even when I am. working out, I don't need that. >> No, you don't need 22% sugar. I mean, yeah, you you want you want more protein. probably actually than that. >> to one that does only 1 g of sugar now.

Cuz you do need some sugar. You need. some carbs, obviously you do. But not that, yeah, not that. Good. analysis. So So walk us through two. questions I have. One is how can people. read food labels better? What were you. doing that was making it effective for. you to figure it out that quickly? Because the challenge is we have little. time, we look at the back, there's like. 50 ingredients. Okay, the the the major. problem I have with this is this isn't a. lack of information problem, because all. the information is there. But you need. bright lights, I need to have my reading.

glasses with me, but what you would do, I I I think ultimately, in order to. better do it, the industry needs to. change what they label, but I don't have. the power to do that. So I think what I. would do is I would focus on first of. all, the amount of depending on what. you're eating, the amount of protein, the amount of fiber, do they put fiber? They do put fiber. The amount of fiber. that's actually in there and the amount. of sugars. Protein, fiber, sugar. >> Protein, fiber, sugar. Protein, fiber, sugar. And what you don't want is to see. an equal balance of all three. You want. to try and see the percentages you said.

earlier. >> Exactly. Yeah. That's what I would do. Yeah. And of course it won't be you're. not expecting to get all your protein. from a bar anyway. >> No. So I think what you want to do as. well is not concerned Okay, not obsess. about one item of food. What you should. do is be thinking about your diet over a. a week. A week's a good period because. there are work days, there are weekend. days. You may have a birthday, you go to. the restaurant for your friends and. you've eating on the run or what have. you. So over a week how much protein, fiber, and things have you been eating? That's better because then that allows.

you to go to the pub, the restaurants, your child's birthday. And then they. say, "Well, I had my child's birthday. party last night, so I'm going to do. something else." So you need to consider. that, but over the context of a full. week rather than obsessing over one. individual bar would be what I would. say. And what are the three hidden. ingredients that you think people should. watch out for on food labels? I I think. sugar is probably the big the biggest. thing to look for because they My wife. sent me to the supermarket to buy She. goes, "Can you get me some beetroot? I. want to make a salad." Okay. And so I.

went into a supermarket chain in the UK. and I bought their finest because I'm a. mug, okay? I bought their finest item. and I brought it back and she yelled at. me. She goes, "Did you see the amount of. sugar on here? Why didn't you get the. one made with vinegar? Why did you get. made one?" And so sugar is the thing. that they shuffle in the most because. it's so it improves the flavor so. quickly and they put it into beetroot. It's a beetroot. Why do you have to boil. it in sugar? It's completely ridiculous. Sugar is probably the big it's the.

easiest thing to shovel in. So to watch. that. How addictive is sugar? I don't. think sugar is addictive. I don't think. there is such a thing as food addiction. If you speak to addiction biologists, they do hijack certain pathways, okay? Because So so the the the part of the. brain that makes things feel nice, your. rewarding part of the brain, is the same. part of the brain for everything. It. doesn't matter if we're talking about. food, sex, or drugs, or alcohol. Okay? It hits the same place. The roots to it. are different, but it's the same it's. the same part of the brain. And so I. think that clearly sugar tickles the.

nice part of the brain, because why why. would it not? But it is not crack. cocaine. People say it's worse for you. than crack, but it isn't. Okay? Because. you clearly get used to it, you like it, there are addictive behaviors, but sugar. in of itself is not addictive. If I took. sugar away from you, you're not going to. go into Kentucky. Okay? You're not. You. might think, "Uh, I want to eat that.". And and and what have you? You're not. So it's not addictive, but we need to. eat less of it, and clearly there is an. addictive behavior of getting used to. eating sugars as well. Is healthier food.

more expensive to produce? Or is it What. is the reason that healthy food has. become expensive? >> So I think there's a marketing element. to it, so therefore healthy food they. they they can make money from it. But. then, what then happens is there are. cultural differences as well, right? Because then what happens is people say. lentils are cheap, which is true. But. that's a culturally specific thing. If. you go to India, you go to South. Everyone knows how to cook lentils, so. lentils are cheap, because everyone can. do it. But other things are are are not. Here, okay? Here or in the UK for that. matter, first of all, do people know how.

to cook lentils who are not South Asian, for example? That's the first thing. The. second is it will always require half an. hour on the electricity or gas. And it's. always cheaper to stick a pre-meal into. the microwave and put 2 minutes. And and in order to do it. So you have. to take the whole life cycle of the. food, and also the amount of time and. effort and education you actually have. about that specific food. So it's a. holistic view of how expensive something. is. >> Yeah, it could be expensive in terms of. time as well. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> people don't some people don't have the.

time. And culturally it does make a. difference, because like lentils are. cheap, Yeah. >> obviously, and and you go to some. countries that they Exactly. Those are. those are but if you buy them from. scratch you need to know how to soak. them overnight. You need to then boil. them for a certain time and if this is. part of your culture and you always have. a you always have beans pre-ready to. cook and everything is ready, perfect. And you have the spice mix ready, perfect. But for a lot of us that's not. the case. Great answers. That was fun. I'm glad we did that. That was really. cool. I wanted to ask about this idea of. you say that weight is biology not.

laziness. >> Mhm. Let's talk about that. >> Okay. I think weight is more biology. than people think. How about that? Okay. So if we actually look at the genetics, heritability. Okay. So what percentage. does genetics actually play into body. weight and we can use that by looking at. twins, identical twins and non-identical. twins. Then actually the heritability of. fat mass of weight is around 40 to 70%. So if that was let's take the average. 50/50. So 50% is going to be driven by. biology.

and 50% by non-biology. And in that. non-biology it could be socio-economic. status, how rich or poor you are. It. could be your culture. It could be any. number of different things. So weight is. probably about 50%. Now within that 50%. it does play a pretty powerful role. And. I guess the one example I'll give is. this. We do not gain or lose weight. overnight. We just we just don't. Any. meal no matter how big is not going to. perceptibly change your body weight. Okay. Your body weight is a function of. thousands of feeding. events that have happened over the past.

couple of years. Okay. That's Okay. Now. imagine however if because of your. genetic hand of cards that you've been. given you were slightly less likely to. say no. 5%. That's kind of scale we're. looking at. So one out of every 20 times. you say hang it I'm going to have the. extra slice of pizza or what have you. 5% over thousands of feeding events is. hundreds of thousands of calories. So. over the period of time that food intake. does begin to influence your body weight. it is not a choice. In in in casino. terms the house will always win if the. die is weighted a certain way. In that.

sense there is a lot of biology, but. clearly, if you take the top 20%. socioeconomically versus the bottom 20%, the bottom 20% are more than twice as. likely to have obesity and most. diseases, to be fair, as the top 20%. There's no genetic difference between. rich and poor people. It's an accident. of birth. And so, there, your. environment really, really, really does. matter. So, even with a same the same. genes, your same genetic burden and drive, if I.

live in a leafy Cambridge village, which. I live so far out that Deliveroo won't. deliver to my village, and so this is a. true story, okay? Then if I'm hungry, um and I just I don't have a corner. shop, I have to drive to the next. village. If I'm hungry on a Sunday. night, well, either I have to to get in. my car and drive somewhere, or I have to. open my fridge and eat the carrots or. whatever else is in my fridge, right? Whereas if I lived in a city, if I live. above a chicken shop, if I live above. then exactly the same genetic drive will.

make me go and I'll I'll make different. decisions. Different things will be. made. So, there's a huge genetic drive, undoubtedly, but the environment also. matters. How much is willpower involved? >> What is willpower? What is it? I think. willpower is an interesting term. I. think that if we're talking about food. intake, which means to say that, "Oh, I'm not going to eat the chocolate bar. or pizza or something today." I think. willpower is simply the physiological. manifestation of how much you want that. item of food and whether or not you say. yes or no. So, willpower is simply part.

of the biology that drives you. or stops you from eating from eating it. So, that's what I think is willpower. So, if that plays a role, yes, willpower. plays a role because it's part of your. biology. It's almost like a sense of I I. like the word discipline more. Mhm. So, as someone who grew up eating. and I've spoken about this on the show. before, I literally grew up eating every. day a chocolate bar, a chocolate. biscuit, a chocolate yogurt, and a. chocolate ice cream every day. Okay. Because that's how I was raised in my. house. And I was overweight growing up. and then in my teens I started playing a.

lot of sports, I lost lots of weight. And but then still even when I was at. university, I drank a sugary soda every. single day and had a chocolate bar every. day. And because of my genetics or my. metabolism, I was lean throughout. college and and all the rest of it, but. I wasn't doing anything healthy. And what I found was that I had to. create discipline at one point in my. life because my natural instinct is to. want sugar to solve my fatigue or energy. or whatever it may be because that's.

what I've been taught or at least. trained to believe is that sugar will. solve my lack of energy right now. Not. realizing that actually I could get that. from a healthier place. I mean, I guess. discipline is one is one way. I mean, I. don't like the term lifestyle. A lot of. people go to this is a lifestyle problem. because lifestyle. makes means choice. But I do think that. many of us need to make behavioral. changes. So that's. that's the terminology I like I I'd like. to use because ultimately this is this. is the issue. It doesn't matter whether. or not the genetic drives makes it. easier or less easy for you to lose.

weight. It doesn't matter. Ultimately. because if you carry too much fat, you're the one that's going to suffer, right? So I think life's unfair, okay? And sometimes biologically unfair and. and and what have you. So I think what. we've got to do is for a lot of us, we. do need to think about behavioral. changes. And you're absolutely right. We. need to be more educated about some. things. We need to just this. conversation we've had, right? I mean, just look look looking at these things. And if you then begin to notice, so even. just what I've said, if you notice a. couple of these little things and you.

incrementally make a better you buy a. better bar, you buy a better, you know, bag of chips or anything like that. But. then that's a positive thing. These are. behavioral changes, but we need to sort. of get the word out there, right? Where. it's not always that's the obvious. things, but the not obvious things also. matter. I think for me one One. behavioral changes that has helped so. much is out of sight, out of mind. What. you just said, like when you walk in and. look at your refrigerator and there's. only carrots and hummus. Like I said,

like I bought this bag in today for this. episode, but we wouldn't have this. available. So, do I want those chips? Of. course I want tortilla chips. I would. rather eat tortilla chips than any whole. foods because that's what I'm. conditioned to want. But when they're. not available in our snack drawer, you. know, then I have to think, "I've got to. wait 20 minutes." So, so now that is. very true, right? So, I think we have to. control the environment we have control. over, which broadly speaking is our. household. And so, same for me, my wife. bans me from buying. So, she loves. chocolate. And she I mean, me.

me chocolate, I I like chocolate, but if. it if there was a chocolate bar there. for example, I would eat a piece and. then I'll continue talking to you. Yeah, I couldn't do that. I'd eat the whole. thing. >> So, my wife says, "Please don't buy. chocolate in the house." So, if we go to. a restaurant, we go to a meal, that's. different, right? Because we're outside, but within our house, like you said, there are no and I love crisps, so I. don't buy crisps in the house because I. know that if it's down and I hear a. rustling, I'll eat it. Out of sight, out. of mind is a is a good way of handling. it. >> Yeah, that's been one big thing for me. and the other one that's really helped. me is having a plan for when that.

craving comes. Strategies. Yeah, strategies, right? Like rather than. feeling like, "Oh, you know, I'm in a. good discipline mode. I'm not going to. have the craving today." It's like, "No, I know that at 8:00 p.m. at night, I'm. going to get a craving. And so, let me. have a plan B option available that is. healthier, better, more natural than. putting myself into the grabbing one of. the. ultra-processed foods. >> So, whenever I talk to people and and. then someone come up to me and whatever. their genetic drive, they says, "Oh, you. know, I need to lose weight. How would.

you do it?" I said, "Look, if you know. you need to lose weight for whatever. reason, then what you've got to do the. the easiest thing to do, okay? Don't go. take a genetic test, anything like that. It's free, okay? It's be honest with why. you eat when you eat. And some people. eat when they get stressed, other people. don't. Some people have a craving for. chocolate at 8:00. Understand this, and. the moment you understand that, put a. strategy in place to kind of mitigate. against against that. And that is your. way into dealing with your biology. Don't worry about the fact that well,

when I go to my friend's house, anything. like that. That's fine, cuz you live in. your house. So, fix your house first. Then everything else you can kind of you. can kind of take it day by day. Fix what. you have in your house. Absolutely. Those two things have helped me. Out of. sight, out of mind. And making sure that. I have a plan for the things I know are. going to happen, not hoping that they. don't happen. >> Yeah, exactly. Don't lie to yourself. Do. not lie to yourself. >> Yeah, exactly. Because yeah, it's I've. lied to myself too many times and then. ended up overeating or over sugaring or.

whatever it may be because I didn't have. a plan. And so I fell to my devices. I. was intrigued to something you write. about is why is it so difficult to lose. weight? Because your brain hates it when. you lose weight. So, it thinks I'm. losing weight, this is lowering my. chances of survival in a world where. there's not enough food. This is not. true now, but in a caveman brain that is. actually dealing with is thinking, I'm. losing weight, I need to put the weight. back on. And so your brain does. everything in its power. It does two. things. It makes you hungrier.

As you know, when anyone who's dieting. you feel hungry. And more insidiously, because this you don't know, it lowers. your metabolism. Okay? So, imagine if I were I'm an 80 kilo. human being, okay? Imagine if I used to. be 90 kg and I've lost so I've lost 10%. of my body weight, okay? The previously. the me who lost 10% of the weight versus. me never been 90 kilos, he has to eat. less than me to maintain the same weight. as me, okay? 80 and 80, but he used to. be because he's lost that weight and the.

brain is trying to drag him back kicking. and screaming back up to to the weight. he was before. Your brain hates it when. you lose weight and it puts into. homeostatic measures as well to make. sure you gain the weight back again. So, that's why It's very depressing. I know. it's very depressing, but it's Yeah, you're fighting you're fighting biology. Yeah. And as we get older, we're putting on. more weight naturally. You do for a. couple of different reasons. I think I. would have given you a different answer. 5 years ago. But new work has come has. has shown that actually you don't begin.

to drop your metabolism per gram of. muscle in you, all right, just to be. clear. So, in other words, how much. muscle you're carrying really till your. mid-60s. So, people thought it happened. earlier, it doesn't. Okay? The problem. is when you get into middle age, okay, is this. First of all, we tend to get. richer, not rich, but richer. We're sat on our. backsides, we have more money. We have. more money, we don't we eat richer food, we're not going to eat less. Right? We're moving less, we tend to. exercise less. I'm sorry, that's true, which means that your muscle mass begins.

to begins to lower. So, a mix of all. that, you have more money, you eat. better food, you exercise less, okay, and that is the toxic mix that then ends. up with you gaining weight, middle age. spread, um etc. etc. How do we stop. that? I think the most important thing, if we if we're dealing with actually. zeroing in, and clearly we can say we. need to improve our diets and things. This is all true. The most important thing about. healthspan, rather than longevity, right? People Who the hell wants to live. forever, you know, with tubes in you you. just don't, okay? But people want to.

live healthy for longer. The marker that most predicts your. healthspan is the amount your percent. your ratio to muscle to fat heading into. your late 60s and into your 70s. Okay? It doesn't matter very many. clearly how heavy you are matters, okay, but more importantly, how much muscle. are you taking into the period of time. The more muscle mean lean mass you. actually have going in particular into. your 70s, the healthier you're likely to. be. So, do not neglect do not neglect.

moving and keeping your muscles in. shape, particularly as you get older. And that. is the way to fight um all the the bad. things that can happen. Yeah, what's. what's really interesting is that as a. society, I feel like we've been. struggling with weight loss for so long, and that's why we've obviously seen the. rise of weight loss drugs, and. especially more recently with Ozempic, and it's becomes commonplace now, it. seems at least. I don't know in the UK, but definitely in the States, and people. are open about their usage. There's a.

debate over whether it's good or bad, and people have different views on it. for different reasons, but there has. been this almost pressure that we've. placed on people, not always from a. health point, but from a vanity point, to lose weight. >> Yes. Whereas, what we're talking about. today is a healthy Yeah. We're talking. about health, and and and I think look, there is nothing wrong with these drugs, as long as the right people get them. I. think ultimately that's true. Now, if. you have a lot of fat, you you have you. know, you have severe obesity, then the.

drug is for you, because you're ill. You. are getting diabetes, the drug is for. you. The drugs are not a cosmetic drugs. So, so these drugs are modified gut. hormones. They're they're modified. versions of natural hormones that we. actually have. So, in one way of looking. at things, we could say that well, I've. only tweaked one hormone in your body, and suddenly you eat less. Then you can. argue that a lot of people with obesity. probably just have a hormonal deficiency. that you're trying to fix. However, the reason these drugs are good. is because they're powerful and they. work. The reason these drugs are bad is.

because they're powerful and they work. for everybody. They make you feel. fuller, whether or not you're 300 lb. looking to lose 100, or whether or not. you are a 16-year-old girl who's 75 lb. That is the problem. It will still make. you eat less. So, they're not cosmetic. drugs. They're powerful drugs. They should be. used as drugs, not as a red carpet tool. So, you're saying that there are a group. of people who it's healthier for them to. use it, and there's a group of people. that shouldn't be using it. >> Correct, because I I think everyone who. needs the drug should get the drug, and. these are people who in fact, there's.

more nuance about this. At the moment, certainly in the in the UK, there are. rules where about how what your BMI, what your weight should be before you're. allowed the drug. And it's above a. certain amount, etc., etc. We've already. discussed, for example, that South. Asians and East Asians, we can't get. that much weight before we get risk of. disease. So, we need to be more nuanced. about who gets the drug. And the person. The people that get the drug need to be. closing in on a on their disease state.

Okay? They should get the drug. Okay? So, in other words, you could be a. little bit heavier, but actually be. perfectly healthy. Do you need the drug? Right? Whereas, maybe a South Asian man. whose BMI 27, but actually is already. close to being type 2 diabetic, maybe he should get it. So, I think at. the moment, people draw a line in the. sand about your BMI. I think we need to be more In fact, just. talking about obesity in general, we. need to be more nuanced. Yeah, it's. really hard because people will say, "Well, I feel more confident now that.

I've taken it, and you know, I feel. better about myself now that I've taken. it.". >> I I mean, okay, as a as a game, if we. game it in our head, do I see if these drugs were shown to be. fully fully fully fully safe over a long. period of time, and broadly speaking, we. know the right people would get it, can I or do I think that if I can walk. into a drugstore, because at the moment, for example, we go in and buy Tylenol, okay? We buy We give it to our kids, right? Now, we also know that if I had a. whole bottle of Tylenol, I may endanger.

my liver. Okay, so there, right? It's It. can be toxic as well, but now, society. has accepted that this is something that. we can choose to self-medicate with. without a prescription. If we can get to that level of safeness. for these weight loss drugs, why not, I guess. Please, I am not saying we will get. there, and I'm not saying it's possible. to get there for the reasons which I've. told you. But I think as a principle, I. don't mind doing that as long as it's. safe and only the right people get it.

Those are the two critical things. What. are the dangers of. weight loss drugs like Ozempic? Like. what are the actual ramifications? The. ramifications are the wrong people. getting it. I mean, very rarely, I think. there are there there certain things. that could happen extremely extremely. rarely. The biggest danger is the people. who are taking it for cosmetic reasons. and uh don't have a lot of fat to lose. and take too much of it and then what. then happens is they then lose too much. weight. What are they damaging? What are. the consequences? >> Because what these drugs do because they. make you feel fuller, then the drugs in.

itself would don't do a great, you know, that positive effects of the drugs. They. just make you eat less. So, if you are. already skinny and take it, you are in. effect starving yourself. That's the one. thing. Starvation is not a good thing, okay, for that. Now, equally, if you. take the drug and don't improve your. diet, because these drugs also don't. improve your diet. They just make you. feel full. So, if your diet was crap to. begin with and you were eating chips and. Oreos all all the time, what these drugs. will do is to make you eat less chips. and Oreos. And so, actually, what.

happens is you could end up. malnourished. So, even yes, you're. losing weight because you're now eating. calorie-wise less food. So, I'm losing. weight. Look at me, I'm I'm good. But. then, if that's all you're eating, you're you're not doing your fiber, your. protein and all that jazz, right, and. micronutrients, then you're going to be. skinny and malnourished at the same time. on the drug. So, the drug is a. silver bullet for the feeling fuller. bit. It doesn't improve your behavior. It doesn't improve your diet. It doesn't. stop people from not taking it who. shouldn't be taking it. So, I'm pro-drug.

for the people who need it. Got it. Really appreciate that. I wanted to ask you this question cuz I. think you've alluded to it, but. if you could put a warning label on one. part of the diet industry, what would it. be? I Can I have two things? Yeah, of. course you can. So, so I I think I think. that that we've really alluded to it. I. think two two things. The first, which. is most important, is don't obsess over. one item of food. Because look, sometimes life demands a chocolate bar. Sometimes life demands a banana. It. depends what you're doing. Okay? Can you make a healthier chocolate bar?

And actually over a period of time, we. don't eat chocolate. We shouldn't eat. chocolate bars every day. So that's the. first thing. We shouldn't We shouldn't. eat chocolate bars every Well, we. shouldn't. Why should we It's like. saying that we shouldn't eat burgers. every day as well. >> though that people do that, right? That's common. But we shouldn't. >> It is common though, right? It is I. think that it is quite common. Is it? >> I don't I assume so. >> Well, I maybe you're right. I mean they. do sell a lot of them. They grow They. grow They grow. They grow They grow So so I think what. you've got to do is. >> I did up until I was 21.

Every day. So that's what you've got to. do. What you've got to do is there's. nothing wrong with a chocolate bar. You've got to think about your whole. your whole diet with those numbers that. are right. So that's the the the second. are those numbers that were that I was. actually telling you about. That the. numbers that just focusing on the. calories. I I really wish. that if they they make it in small. numbers, I think maybe the genie's out. of the bottle and we can't get those. calories. I think obsessing over the. calories is the wrong thing to obsess. about because it doesn't improve the. quality of our diet. To me, the big. thing that I think I really want people. to take away is this idea of look at the.

protein, look at the fiber, and look at the. >> sugar sugars. >> Yes. Because that solves it. Right? Like I'm. thinking of right now if someone's. feeling overwhelmed if right now they're. listening to. >> so much there's so They're just thinking. right now like Charles, I want to do. this, but I I don't even know how to. have time to do Where would you suggest. they start? Is that where you suggest. they start? Yes. >> Yes. Yes, me too. I think that's a. really clear way of looking at is think. about your diet as protein intake, fiber. intake, and sugar intake in the.

percentages that Charles broke down. 16%. of protein, 30 g of. fiber, and. 5% sugar or less. And all of a sudden, now you're hopefully going to feel. healthier, have more energy, and. naturally eat less Or eat less. Eat less crap. >> Yeah. You're going to eat better and you. might say that well, wait a minute, they. don't label fruits and vegetables and. they don't label meats because they. don't need to. Ultimately, if you get if. you're actually eating a piece of meat.

and some fruits and vegetables in which. there's no labeling and it's just how do. I know? How do I know? If you're eating that, you don't need to. know. That is the point. Because if. you're cooking a steak and you're having. broccoli and you're you're you're doing. the things and you're peeling the potato. and boiling it, and you're then. concerned about well, I don't know how. much sugar they put in it. Well, it's. because you have to add sugar if you. want to do it and and you want to do So, the moment you're cooking from scratch, not everybody can cook from scratch, which is what Mr. Subpar So, but if you. were eating foods with no labels, then. they tend to be fresh stuff, then That's.

a great point. >> Right? That the foods that don't have. labels. >> Correct. is because they don't need them. Correct. That I've never even thought. about it like that. It sounds so simple, but that's a really good point. And if you're eating that way, then. generally you're going to be healthier, safer, more secure. >> Yes, there's still danger of eating too. much and what have you, of course, but. as a general rule and we're looking at a. general rule, I think that's going to be. Amazing. Charles, it's been so great. talking to you today. We end every On. Purpose episode with a final five. These. questions have to be answered in one.

word or one sentence maximum. So, Charles, yo? Yo. You look prepared. Uh here's your final five. The first. question is what is the best health. advice you've ever heard, received, or. given? You know what? Move more. That's a great one. Uh question number. two, what is the worst health advice. you've ever heard or received? >> Count calories. Uh question number three, something you. used to believe was true about health. but now you know it's not true. I used. to think that the moment you hit your. 40s or 50s, your metabolism dropped. And.

that's not that's not true. It's only. because your muscle mass dropped. So, I. think this metabolism thing, your. metabolism stays stable through your. life. That was a very long answer. I'm. so sorry. But that but that but I used. to think that 5 years ago, and now I. don't think that anymore. What's the. most recent study or research that. you've read about the work that you do. that blew your mind or fascinated you or. something that made you really curious. and interested? When I first learned. that this. lowering of metabolism when you lose.

weight is pretty much permanent. Right? And so, in other words, this is. why it's so difficult for you to lose. weight. This is probably I It's probably. 10 years old, so it's not new. It's part. of the reason why your brain hates it. when you lose weight by or why it's so. difficult to actually lose weight. So, once again, let's just So, I'm 80 kilos. If I used and I'm not I've always been, okay? So, but imagine if exactly the. same you my twin got to 90 kilos and. then came back down to 80 kilos. Then, from a physics perspective, you think, "Well, this is an 80-kilo gentleman. I'm. an 80-kilo gentleman. We should be able.

to eat exactly the same thing." We. can't. He will always have to eat less than me. to maintain the same body weight because. he has a brain that used to be 90 kilos. and is dragging back up. And I remember. seeing the very, very first time seeing. those studies. I was going, "This is depressing." But, but then then. you think, "Well, how do we mitigate. against these things?" And how do you do. it? I mean, the drugs do a job for that, for example. People who exercise So, exercise is terrible for weight loss. because we don't exercise enough, but. very good for weight maintenance for. that very reason, right? Where when you.

exercise, you have your expenditure goes. up and it mitigates against this loss of. metabolism. So, this is not brand new. study, but I I found it very. interesting. Is there a way to trick. your brain? There is a way to trick your. your brain in the bad way. So, in other. words, if you gain weight. and stay there for long enough time, your brain begins to defend that higher. weight. Okay? Whereas, if you lose. weight, your brain, from what we know so. far, never defends that lower weight. because evolutionarily, there was no. reason to do that, right? Because this. is less likely of survival. So, your.

brain can train in the other direction. Vicious cycle? Not not in losing weight. And fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever. been on the show, if you could create. one law that everyone in the world had. to follow, what would it be? I think. that. healthy food should always be the. cheaper option wherever you go. At the. moment, that's not true. It's very. uneven. Where at the moment unhealthy. food is cheaper, and so if we want to. cure diseases and obesity.

equitably across the world, regardless. of how rich or poor you are, then by. default the food that you eat must be. healthy. Giles, thank you so much for. your time and energy. So grateful to. connect with you today and. learn so many things from you. You blew. my mind multiple times and everyone. who's been listening or watching, go and. grab the book Why Calories Don't Count, How We Got the Science of Weight Loss. Wrong. Follow Giles across his podcast. and social media if you don't already, and make sure you tag us on TikTok and.

Instagram and let us know what you're. connecting with, what you're. experimenting with, and what you're. trying. I love to see how you're putting. all of this insight into action. Thank. you so much again, Giles. Such a. pleasure. Grateful to meet you. Thanks. for having me. If this year you're. trying to live longer, live happier, live healthier, go and check out my. conversation with the world's biggest. longevity doctor, Peter Attia, on how to. slow down aging and why your emotional. health is directly impacting your.

physical health. Acknowledge that there. is surprisingly little known about the. relationship between nutrition and. health, and people are going to be. shocked to hear that, cuz I think most. people think the exact opposite.