How People Treat You Depends on the One Idea They Have of You | Trevor Noah

We are so attached to the idea of who we. are, you know, whether it's designed by. or what our parents always said about. us. But sometimes I find I I would get. so attached to that that then I would be. afraid to let go because I don't want to. lose me. I don't want to lose me. I'm. me. I know me. If I want to lose me, do. I still love me? The best-selling author and host of the. number one health and wellness podcast. On Purpose with Jay Shetty. Everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the. world. Thanks to each and every one of.

you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now, you know that one. of my favorite ways to learn is by. learning people's stories, by diving. into their hearts, their minds, their. their souls if they're willing to share. that, and try and understand what we can. learn, what we can hear, what we don't. understand. Maybe there's a part of. their journey that we didn't know enough. about, and I found stories become a huge. compass for me in my life. And that's. why I try and share those with you here. And today's guest is someone that I've. actually wanted to talk to for a long,

long time. I would say I've been. probably trying to book this podcast for. like 2 years in the making. So, I'm. very, very excited this evening. And. just so you know, he's had a crazy busy. day. It is officially 7:45 p.m. on a. Monday night when we're recording this. in New York City. I'm talking about the. one and only, someone who needs no. introduction, Trevor Noah. Trevor, thank. you so much for doing this. Thank you. very much, Jay. I'm very grateful to have you in the in. the seat, finally. It's good. I'm I'm grateful to be. talking to you in person. Most of the. time I see you, I'm watching a clip of.

yours online. So, this is nice. No, I. really appreciate this. And my interview. with you that we did when I was out. talking about Calm was my favorite. interview from that whole experience. Because I felt that the questions you. asked me were the most reflective. They. were pushing me. They were challenging. me in a healthy way. And I was just like, oh, well, you know, I want to sit down more and have more of. those conversations with you. So, anyway, but I I want to start with you. but you know, your book Born a Crime is.

a brilliant brilliant book and I don't. want to go through the whole book. I'd. love for people to read it if they. haven't, but I guess what I'm fascinated. by is. human experiences when we were children. or early on in our lives that shaped us. today. And I know you've reflected on that a. lot, but now when you reflect on it. today, what are some of the examples of human. experiences that you had that you think. shaped who you are today? What was one. of the earliest memories, maybe? My mom. is a Bible scholar. And. she reads the Bible every day.

Not all of it, but she she moves through. it every single day. What I found fascinating is that she's. been reading the same book. for decades now. And every day. she'll send me. an email or a message about a scripture. and how it pertains to her life as she. sees it now, in this moment, how it has. been, and how she thinks it will be. And. what I found particularly fascinating. about that is.

the fact that it's the same book and yet. it keeps meaning so many different. things to her. The same story, but it. keeps meaning so many different things. And. I sometimes think about my life in that. way. Is depending on where I am, depending on the moment, depending on. where I've been and where I'm going, the same experience reveals a different. parts of me. The same experience reveals. why I am who I am or why I'm doing what.

I'm doing or why I even have an idea of. who I am or why I am. And so, recently, maybe, since you know, you're. asking me. what is one of these things, what is. something, I think back to how. not having shaped how I see the world, shaped how I move in the world. You. know, not having food sometimes, not. having money sometimes, not even having. luxury items sometimes, you know, whether it be clothing or cars, whatever.

it may be. But but recently I've I've found myself. going, man, so much of how you define yourself. is through the lens of having or not. having, particularly. because of how you grew up. And so it's it's not about having or not. having now, but it's in the small things, you know, it's like how I order food or why I. order the food that I do in the way that. I do. is partially because of having or not. having. And so I would say that's maybe.

one of the biggest experiences that I. find has. Yeah, has recently. been like just shining a light on on on. how I grew up. Yeah, that's fascinating. I've often reflected on something. similar and I've called it gifts or. gaps. The having or not having. Interesting. So certain gifts that I had growing up, I handed to me by my parents or by my. family. Oh, wow. Okay. Right? And then what were the gaps? Well, there were gaps. Like there were. things that you didn't have. So whether. that would be.

a present parent or a. I didn't have the latest Nike sneakers. or Nike shoes as we would call them Call. them Nike shoes. Say it like that. Say. it like that. Call them Nike. Say it. like that. Yeah, Nike. beat Americans, you sound like an idiot. Exactly. Nike and Adidas. As I say, Adidas not Adidas. Uh and and so those. kind of gaps and obviously those are. very crude examples, but and and do you. find yourself editing those now? Like do. you find yourself saying, "Okay, I didn't have this and therefore. I have this behavior. I did have this.

and therefore I have this behavior." Do. you feel like your behavior today wants. an upgrade because of your new lifestyle. or a downgrade or you kind of think, "No, I'm happy living with the same. beliefs and values and systems that I. had from back then." All I'm constantly. trying to do is acknowledge them. Mhm. I. try my best to eliminate good or bad. I. really do. And the reason I do that is not because. you know, I I exist in a in a spiritual. world. Although I I think we all do, but.

I'm not because of that. I think of it. more because I realize. everything and everyone is going to have. a good or bad, you know? So. I have yet to meet a person who doesn't. think some parts of their childhood were. tough. Yes. But now it's when we compare the. toughness that that people then say, "Oh, actually I didn't have a tough. You. had a tough." And and you know, like. people will say to me, "Oh man, you grew. up so poor in South Africa." And you. know, growing up in the township and. whatever. And I would say to them, "I.

didn't feel like this cuz I would see, for instance, the slums in India.". Mhm. I go like, "Man, yo." And and and. maybe I was lucky, funny enough, because. in South Africa we had news that was was. global. And because it was. it was so um I think it was so broad, I. had an awareness. So I didn't think what. I was living through was the worst. possible thing. Yes. But now relative to how many other. people live, they've put me down at the. bottom of a list. Yes. Yes. Yes. And and yeah, and so I I I often don't.

think of it as good or bad. I I just try. and go. oh, that happened, that didn't happen. Because of that, I adapted accordingly. You know, so you know, there's there's a. lot of rainfall. So then this plant will. start growing in that way. There isn't. as much rainfall, the plant will grow. another way. Is it good or is it bad? That's often times something that's. subjective because of who runs the world. or who tells us how the world should be. or isn't or you you you get what I'm. saying? Yeah, no. And and I love that you've. simplified it as awareness because that.

awareness or acknowledgement, as you. said. I try. of of keeping it that way is often quite. sacred to be able to say, "No, I'm just. observing. I'm just seeing.". Yeah. But it's hard. Yeah, it's hard. And you reminded me, I was I was 9 years. old when I first visited India. I was. born and raised in London, but my my mom. I was actually was born and raised in. Yemen, and my father was born and raised. in India. But my parents are Indian. What part of India? Uh my father was. from Mangaluru, which is like southern. India, and then my mother is from. Gujarat, which is northern India. But. she was born and raised in Yemen, so she.

moved to London when she was 16. Mhm. But when I went to India for the. first time when I was 9 years old, I. remember we were in a car, and we were. not well-off, so we weren't staying in a. fancy hotel or whatever, but we had. enough money to visit, which is. significant for the air flight. And I. remember going in this car, and you just. sparked this, and I remember like stopping at a. traffic light, and just looking out, and. I saw all these slums, and I mean, I'd. never seen something like that in. London. And I saw these little legs poking out.

of like a barrel of a trash can. And and I was just And the legs looked. little, like of someone my age, like. around And And then. slowly I saw the whole her whole body. come out, and it was this. girl, and she didn't have any hands. And she'd just been like trying to. scrape the bottom I remember being 9. years old, and she was probably like. maybe the same age, maybe a little less, like. And I remember just looking at her and. feeling like totally helpless, because I. was in a car on the other side of the.

highway, and I can't go and help her. I want to, but I also don't know what help means as. a 9-year-old. And it was one of those experiences. that, you know, and then I went back, I. remember to my hotel, and I remember. hearing like someone was arguing about. not enough menu options on the buffet. And it was just It was like as a night. It was like connecting the dots, as. you're saying, of like you know, when. you see your experience, and then you. see someone else's experience. Have Have you found that what you did go. through, that you ever needed to process.

it or heal it, or because you had that. perspective since day one, that that you never needed that, that it. was just like no this is my experience. and I'm used to it or whatever were. there moments of where you had to. revisit and I work on healing every day. Mhm. You know, I. grew up in a world where we almost. didn't have the time nor the resources. to heal. Mhm. And I think for a long. time I was very comfortable in accepting. that as just being my world. Oh, that.

happened. All right. You know, I shrug. it off and you keep on moving. Wow. Yeah, you you shrug it off. That. happened. That happened to you, you. know, domestic abuse. Okay, poverty, whatever it may be, violence in the. community or at home, whatever. Yeah, that happens. You keep it moving. You. shrug it off because it is happening. And funny enough, you can grow up and I knew I grew up in. a world where I created this narrative. in my head. that it was not bad because it was. happening to everyone. Mhm.

Wow. And so. Now, most of my life, you know, is spent. acknowledging that it was bad. And then. spending a lot of time acknowledging how. the bad. created coping mechanisms or tools that. I then use in my life every single day. and how I can accept those parts of. myself. whilst also not glorifying the things.

that happened. Mhm. Which is sometimes I. I I I fight with a lot of people when. they do this. I I I fight with all my. friends, by the way. I hate. Friends from back home? Anyone. Anyone. I fight with my friends with friends. from back I fight with anyone, Jay. Anyone. I'm never grateful for. suffering. I'm never grateful for pain. I'm never I'm not grateful for those. things. Mhm. What I work to be grateful. for is the resiliency that may exist in. my family and our ability to adapt. But. I'm not going to be grateful for a. horrible thing that happened to me or.

the people in my life. Yes. because we learned how to deal with. it. Yeah. You know, I would like to live in. a world where my child doesn't have to. develop that tool. Let them develop. another tool. Yeah, let them let their. tool be I had to figure out, uh, you. know, how to feel good about myself when. I couldn't get as many Tik Tok followers. as I wanted. Let that Fine, let that be. their tool. But I I I. And I understand the, you know, the. esoteric idea. I understand what people. are saying sometimes. But I I'm I'm. almost allergic to it because I think.

sometimes what it does is it justifies. what people are going through or it. justifies the idea that we we we don't. need to do more or people aren't going. through something bad because it it. creates the best. It makes diamonds. It. makes It can create diamonds. And I'm. like, "Yeah, but what it can also do is. pulverize a lot of people into dust.". Yeah. You know, and so diamonds are the. exception. I I'm often careful to think about, you. know, I'm sure I'm sure you understand. what I mean. Yeah, I mean, hearing you,

actually, what I find is that it. at least what I took away from that is. that it's the same thought, it's just a. deeper level of the same thought. Like. it's with more clarity. Like it's like I. think sometimes we hear that idea of be. grateful for everything or be grateful. for the suffering. And if you don't really think that. through, you can try and artificially put that. band-aid. Maybe that's Yeah. Yeah, and and you. just kind of try and like, "Oh, yeah, put the band-aid on. Like put the. band-aid on of gratitude, gratitude.". But it's like when you internalize then. you process it, that's when you can what.

you're doing, which is like clearly. sectioning it off and saying, "I'm not. grateful for the act of violence or I'm. not grateful for the suffering as you. said, but I can be grateful for the. quality that. I resilience, etc., that helped me push. through. But I think that's To me, that's just a deeper, more refined. thought out of practicing gratitude. almost. Do you think like I've always. I've always wanted to know as a like, you know, as a monk, are you forced to. just be grateful for everything.

regardless of of what it is? No, I I think what you're saying is far. more aligned with what I would think. Like as in as in I think that there's. two parts, right? One is what the. philosophy tries to share or or state, and then it's what you learn in the. practice of that philosophy. So, if you. try and be grateful, like I just had. this this literally just happened, hence. I'm talking about it. I just had a. double inguinal hernia surgery. Uh which. means that both my hernias, which are on. either side of my groin, had to had to. have incisions in my stomach and a mesh.

put in there. It's not life-threatening, but it's massively inconvenient. And I. was I didn't work for 3 weeks. This is. my first week back at work. And I'm. feeling much. The funniest is when you you try and. you have like a sneeze or a cough the. first time. Have you had this? Yeah, and then you don't You know what's. funny? The funniest when it happens. and the first time you don't realize how. painful it would be, and now your body. doesn't allow you to cough or sneeze or. But it's amaz- It's almost funny to what. we're talking about. This is what I. mean, right? It is amazing.

how quickly your body responds to trauma. or pain. Yes. It's amazing at how. quickly it works to protect you from it. Cuz if I said to you, "Don't sneeze or. don't cough for 3 weeks," it's. impossible. Yeah. But one cough and one sneeze when you've. had your hernia or any surgery that's. abdominal, your body goes, "I never want. to experience that again.". Never. And then you don't know You know. exactly what you know exactly what I. mean. I know exactly what you mean. For. the first I was scared that I was going. to pop my hernia again. So, I was. scared. Yeah.

Yeah. And so, I'm walking around with a pillow. like halfway through the day. My wife's. like, "What are you doing?" I'm like, "I. might cough." And she's laughing at me. I'm like, "You can't make me laugh. either." Like I was like I couldn't. watch comedy for 3 weeks cuz you can't. laugh. It hurts so much. But the reason. I brought that up was like, "Am I. grateful I got a hernia?" No. Like why. would I be grateful that I've been. working out? I eat healthy. I'm like, you know, I'm very I'm a mindful. individual, but I ended up with this. from whatever from working out and. everything. I'm not grateful for the. hernia, but I'm grateful for the journey.

I chose to take during the experience. that has helped me have new. appreciation. And so I I think the point. of at least I mean going to what you. suggested like how would a monk think. about gratitude? I don't think any. quality or value. was embodied by force or by prescription. without okay reflection. Okay. If that makes sense. Yeah, that does make sense. Anything without reflection is. practically.

yeah, not the right way to Right. That. makes sense. No, I I I like that. I. really do fight with a lot of people. about this. And no, and I you know, I obviously when. I say fight I mean that's how we use it. in South Africa. Funny enough in India. as well. I'm sure you know this. When I. was in India I went recently and what I. loved is how people argue about. everything. And like one of the guys who was there. is a friend of mine now and you know, we're arguing back and forth. We're. arguing and then like his friend steps. in and he's like, "Trevor, he's like, I'm so sorry, Trevor. Please whip I. apologize. You know, he's not fighting. with you. This is how we do it in.

India." And I'm like, "Oh, I was like, this is amazing. I want to live in this. country.". Yeah. Let's let's get into it. But this. is what I. argue with people about sometimes where. I say yeah, I don't have to be grateful. for it. Cuz I often say and maybe I'm maybe I'm. wrong here. It's how I see it. I have. found for myself and maybe for others. times we are so attached to the idea of. who we are, the story that we've told ourselves, the. story that we continue to tell. ourselves, who we are, who we wish to.

be, who we should be. You know, whether it's designed by our. what our parents always said about us. You're such a quiet child. You're such a. lovely person. You're so kind. You're so. polite. And you go that I am I should be. then. I you know, whatever it may be. But sometimes I find I I get so attached. to that. that then I would be afraid to let go of. the things that may be holding me back. because I don't want to lose me. Because. who is me if I don't have the pain? Who. is me if I don't have the trauma? Who is. me if I don't have the the mistrust? I.

don't want to lose me. I'm me. I know. me. What if I'm not me? I love me. And. if I want to lose me, do I still love. me? And it it I that's what I find the. thing is. And so, what I found helps me, you know, and I'll say to some of my. friends is I go. I do not need to live my life believing. that. I would not be me or I do not love me if. I wish for these things to not happen. But I rather go I would have learned. something else. So, I learned a different part of my body. I. learned how to work through pain. I.

learned how to move differently because. of a hernia. Fine. I'm grateful that I. can learn. I'm grateful that I can. recover. I'm grateful that maybe I even. learned how to rest a little bit. Take. some time off. Slow down, Jay. But. I also sit with that and go. But if I didn't have that hernia, if I. didn't have that trauma as a child. I would have had the opportunity to. learn something else. So, maybe my tool. wouldn't have been used on this, it. would have been used on something else. And that doesn't diminish me or or who I. think I am. It just allows me to almost exist.

infinitely and go well, then I can try. to be whatever me exists. You know, and you it's like skin. It's. like hair. It's like we're always losing. us I is what I think. Yeah. Yeah, I mean the cells in our. bodies are changing all the time. I'm always trying that and it's scary. That's yeah, it's scary because I think. humans look for certainty as safety and. security and stability. But I was going. to ask you that like. what you started to touch on there which. I which I'm which I love is like. identity, belonging. These are the.

things that you talk about so much in. your past as well. And what you're. basically saying is that well, if we're. open to our identity changing and we're. open to our home changing. I mean, do. you still feel attached to a sense of. home? Like what is home to you today? Like how would you how do you think. about the word home? For me, the true definition of the word. home is familiar. Mhm. Of the family. It's a repeated interaction. That's all home is to me. Mhm. You know, the reason you call it my home.

is because you go back to it every. single day. Mhm. Uh if somebody flipped. all the furniture in the house every. day, you'd find you wouldn't it you'd. say it doesn't feel like home. Yeah. But it is your home. Yes. You. know, I I I think. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. My friends are my home. The languages, you know, I speak are my home. The food. I eat in South Africa is my home. But my. home starts to grow. It starts to. change. You know, I I said this to a. friend of mine when I got back from. India. I said, "Man, it felt like home.". And he was like, "What do you India?" I.

said, "It's crazy, but it felt like. home.". Wow. You know, there were there were. parts of Delhi where I was like, "This. feels like home." You know, there were. parts of Bangalore Bengaluru where I was. like, "This feels like home." Wow. know what I mean? It's like. Yeah. And people like, "What How can it feel. like home?" I was like, "Well, maybe cuz. part of it is reminiscent, you know, it. reminds me of South Africa. We have an. Indian population. It's huge. One of the. biggest in the world. We We have Indian. culture. We But also, it's just. it's it feels familiar. It feels like. home. And so for me, that's that's what. home means is is is a sense of the.

familiar. You know, you can even experience. randomly if you travel a lot in a hotel. that you always frequent, it feels like home. Yeah. So, that's what, you know, that's. what home means for me. Yeah. It's just. that, you know, And you feel that in New. York, too, when you're here? Like you. find that you have that because of that. familiarity. Yeah. You feel like I always see you and I. always it seems to me like you're always. home. I don't know why. That's that's a. nice thing for you to say. Genuinely, it. always seems like I never feel like you.

you're uncomfortable. I never feel like. you, but I I know if that's just. what you put out. No, I I I I would it's I was going to. define it now as share it's contextually. sharing now, but I my definition of home. have has always been where I feel I'm. living my purpose. Oh. So, that's always been my purpose. So, and I genuinely feel like that where I. could wake up and be in another city or. another country or another seat. and as long as I'm this is my like I.

feel this is I'm doing my purpose. tonight with you and that's why I'm. here. I I understand. So, how would you. cuz I I I can try to understand but what. what would you say your you feel your. purpose is? So, my purpose is to help. other people find their purpose. Okay. And to me my purpose is to be a. vessel of being able to expose people to. a number of different ideas, insights, paths, stories, walks of life so that. they can find theirs. I don't think. everyone's purpose looks like mine. I.

don't think everyone's path looks like. mine because I think one of the best. things I got when I was a kid and again. it goes back to my childhood. experiences. My dad was really worried. that I didn't read enough. And I would never be interested in. reading fiction books at school. So, we'd get the fiction books like. Goosebumps and then later on Harry. Potter and all these books and I would. never read them and I wouldn't have any. interest in them. So, my dad was worried. and my mom was worried that this kid's. not going to read. And now I was about 13 going on 14 and I. still wasn't reading a lot and so my dad.

started giving me biographies and. autobiographies. And so I read like by the time I was 16. I'd read Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, I was also reading like David Beckham. and Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson because I. was a massive soccer football fan. And so I started just like collecting. all these stories and then as I told you. when I said on your show like I met a. monk when I was 18 and that was the. story that my purpose felt connected to. Got it. And so now I feel I'm like, well, someone's going to I to Trevor's.

story and feel far more connected. Interesting. And that may spark this kid out there to. say, "Hey, maybe that's the kind of. direction I want to go in." I feel like. today we're we're exposed to the same. people online and on TV and streaming. And we're also exposed to the same parts. of them. That's true. And my hope is that this podcast, even. if you're seeing someone who's famous. and popular like yourself, hopefully. people get a deeper insight into someone. famous and popular or they get to meet. someone random who's not famous and. popular, but is interesting. So, anyway,

that's that's my purpose. Okay. Wow. So, I feel like if I'm doing. that in a city in a country, I'm I'm. home. And it's because. one of the famous scholars in your time. and your mother being a scriptural. scholar and like such a avid reader, uh. I never met this scholar, but my monk. teachers would often quote him. And he said that the only place higher. than like the spiritual realm, uh and it would be poetry, but also, you. know, literal as well, that the only. place higher than being in heaven or the.

spiritual realm is a place you live your. purpose. And I And that idea always like. connected with me because then I was. like, "Oh, so I could be in the middle. of chaos, but still feel at home." And. so, it gives me a sense of comfort and. you know, that's what keeps me going. when the day is tough, when things are. going whatever they are. It's It's. something that comforts me and it works. for me. That's a really great purpose to. have because I mean, there's always. people to help. There are always. journeys waiting to be embarked upon. That's Yeah. Yeah. And And there's no.

Yeah. And And it's And it's free, but. with you I see the one thing the thread. that I've heard in you, which I really. appreciated, is like literally three. times you've responded, you've said, "My. friends. My friends. I was talking to my. friend." Like this person talks a lot to. their friends. Which Which is really. beautiful because you're thinking, "Wow, like you're a busy person. You're. back-to-back." I mean, I remember I was. in. I think we were both speaking at at. Sharjah Book Festival. You landed one. night. I messaged you and I said, "Trevor, let's do breakfast." You're.

like, "Dude, I leave.". I was gone in. there for 8 hours, you were there for. like 6 or 4. And I was like, I thought I. was there for not enough to like I was. there for 8 hours and you were like, "Dude, I'm I'm literally leaving. tonight.". And so, you're a busy person, but in. this conversation, so many times you. said friends, friends, friends, friends, friends. Like. uh yeah, like how A, who are the. friends? What are you talking to them. about? Like, how what's your. consistency? I'm I'm fascinated by that. because So, who are the friends? Predominantly, my friends are from South. Africa. Um friends I met doing different.

things. All all organic meetings which. um. I'm a sucker for. I'm terrible at making. friends, partially because I I don't. trust people easily. I exist in a world. where I can be friendly with many. people, but you know, it takes me a while to. accept that this person is actually a. part of my life. Right. And I think for. a long time it it was because and still. is sometimes because A, I have an idea. of.

putting something on that person where I. may need them means that they may. disappoint me. And then on the other side of it, them. needing me means I could be in the. position to disappoint them. You know, and and and so. as we learn people, I find we learn what. they can and cannot do, we learn who. they are or are not, and it's always. situational for me. You know, that's that's when I'll call. you like a friend. is that I know how you are in most.

situations. Yeah, it's good definition. that that that for me is the definition. of a friend. So, you know, I can be we. use it loosely, obviously, but you know, I can be friends with you and we always. meet for lunch and always meet for but. but then I only know you in in one way. My friends, I start to be able. to. I almost almost store in a vault in my. mind. I can say for a fact if we're. friends, if Jay was here, this would. bother him. He would like that. He would.

probably say this and that's why he. would act this way. Yeah. And that's you know, that's that's. how I think of my friends. Yeah. So, they've been a a major part of. making me feel at home. You know, my my. my job, stand-up comedy is a really. lonely career. You know, and I remember. talking to a comedian. It was a few. weeks ago talking about how there was. like a period where a lot of stand-up. comedians were committing suicide, you. know, and would be you'd hear this. devastating story of a comedian that.

everyone loved. They were in a hotel. room and then they committed suicide. And I was petrified. because I. I always think it can happen to me. You. know, I I I go that if that happened to. them, why did it happen? How did If I. don't understand, then. what is it? Another comedian, another. comedian, another comedian, another. comedian. I think being a stand-up comedian is a. is a really lonely job in that we're. traveling often times alone. We don't. have a band. We don't have backup. dancers. We don't we don't we don't.

travel with Can you imagine you had your. backup dancers? And yet every night. you're going out there and you're making. people laugh. You're having fun with. them. They come with their families. They come with their friends. They come. with their loved ones. You leave alone. And and it's this constant exchange of. energy and what I learned was my my. friends became that hub. My friends. became my recharge. My friends became. the couch I could lie on and say nothing. or everything. Yeah. And.

thanks partly to technology, I've been. able to keep in touch with them. There's. no there's no catching up for us. It's literally a running we've got a. WhatsApp thread that is now I'm going to. say. 15 years old. Yeah. Like literally I can go back and. search something from maybe 10 years ago. sometimes. I can go back on the WhatsApp. there and go what happened on and I can. search it and I can find it. That's how. long we've had the same group and the. same friends and the same everything. And obviously it's grown over time.

But that core has kept me, you know? I. always think did you end up reading. Harry Potter? I didn't ever read it. I've watched all the movies. Yeah, I. never read it. Yeah, I watched all the. movies. So I know all the I'm a big fan. actually of the movies. So I feel like your friends in life. are your Horcruxes. Oh, interesting. Okay. You know? I think. as people what we do is. we break ourselves into parts. And whenever we meet people, we give. them a part of ourselves.

And some people we give more than we. give others. But we give everyone a. different part of ourselves. No one in. your life has the same part that another. person has. They may seem similar, but. they're not. Your mother and father hold different. parts of you. Your uncles, your cousins, your brothers, your sisters, your. friends, whoever it is. They all hold a. different parts of you. And the same way Voldemort could use. that to come back to life, I feel like. we can use that. Wow. back to life. Wow. what I mean? Yeah, you watched a different movie. I read the book. Yeah, you read the.

the book, my friend. That's what it is. That's what you missed in the movie. I. read the book. Yeah, and so. I always think that as I I I. man, sometimes I can be at my worst. I. can be Sometimes I can be lost. Really, Jay. There'll be times when I'll be. like, man, what am I doing? Or where am. I I'm stressed. I'm tired. I'm burnt. out. I I feel lost and I can call a. friend and no joke, they can say to me. well, the Trevor I know. you know, and and I love that they say. that. They don't say this is who you are. or not. They go the Trevor I know. found his joy here. Yeah. Hey, you know,

I've noticed that you're always happiest. when you do it this way. Yeah. Hey, I've. noticed that, you know, you stress more. when you're in this Hey, and I go. man, I. I didn't know that about myself or I. didn't hold myself that way cuz I'm. always experiencing all of me still. through my lens. But thank you. You freed me. You. encouraged me. You held me. Um. you loved me. Mhm. And what what then. happens is I start to find.

what I need to get back to my purpose, to my passion, to whatever drives me and. and that's why my friends are a big part. of that. That is That is the core of my. world. Yeah. And and it's funny my mom even used to. say that to me. when I was growing up. You know, it's at a certain age she said. to me she'd say to me, "My friend." You. know, I'd be like, "I'm not your. friend." I'd be like, "I'm You're my. mom." And my mom would say, "Just. because I'm your mom doesn't mean I'm. your friend." She said there are many. mothers out there that aren't friends.

with their child. Yeah. And she said, "I'm your mother and. I will always love you as your mother, but. you are becoming my friend.". Wow. And that stuck with me. I realized that. friendship is a choice. Every other. relation we have isn't. And so even your your relatives. can become your friends or may not be. your friends. And I think understanding. that illuminates a lot of how you. interact with people in the world. Yeah. I I I really resonate with what I mean. everything you said, but one of the.

things that stood out was. that kind of performance loneliness. Mhm. And the my my work mainly started with. coaching and working with people and I. and I work with a lot of musicians and. people who tour and travel, not. comedians, but but artists and you know, they're performing to like 100,000. people and 80,000 people and then they. would always talk to me about this. And I didn't I didn't really have a. empathetic experience of it. I I could. understand it theoretically. Yeah. And then because most of the events I. used to speak at were like corporate.

events or like a business event or. things like that. And then a few years. ago when I did my first ever event with. my audience and it was in LA people who. came because they followed my work not. because of anything else. There was only. about 2,000 people in the audience and I. finished the event and I got into the. car. and it hit me and I was like, "Oh, like. this is chemical. This is definitely. chemical cuz you just had thousands of. people shouting your name and like. loving everything you say and all this. validation and everything else." As what.

you were saying when you were coming. like the dopamine and the everything. Yes. And then all of a sudden I was like, "Wait a minute, this feels weird. Like. why do I feel like, you know, a a sense. of loneliness?" And it was really. interesting cuz I felt like that pretty. much the whole And I felt like calling. someone. Yes. And I couldn't because in. London it was too early. None of my. friends would be awake. And so they're 8. hours ahead cuz I'm in LA and I'm going, "I've got to wait another hour for my. friend to wake up, 2 hours. I'm not. going to wake him up in the middle of. the night." So I'm waiting there and. then all my friends in LA were just at.

the event so I just saw them and so. they're probably like going home and it. was a weeknight and so maybe they And. I'm like, "I don't want to. And then I get home. and my wife had organized a surprise. party for me with all my best friends, like closest friends in LA. Wow. And it was like a relief. It wasn't. even a celebration. I was like, there. was a sense of relief. I was like, "Oh, thank god cuz I don't know what I would. I don't know what I would have done. tonight, man. Like, you know, I. understand why people turn to drugs. I. understand why people turn to I. understand like it was the first time I.

was like, Because you Yeah, you need to. numb it. Yeah, you need to numb it. because you just don't know what to do. with that feeling. Mhm. And that was the first time I'd. felt that way and I can't imagine as. you're saying for someone who's on tour. and traveling every night. My drug, as I said to you, my drug was. chocolates. Oh, I love chocolate, too. That was like. my I I couldn't It's like my team knew, my people knew. It's like I'd do the. show and immediately and you probably. relate to this more because, you know, coming from the UK. In America, they. don't really do it. In South Africa, our. petrol stations, our gas petrol right?

They have amazing stores attached to. them. Like here, every gas station looks. like it's already been robbed. You don't. want to pour gas. I don't like it it. looks terrible. They all look abandoned. You know what. yeah, they all look like a ghost town. Whereas where we're from it's like, oh, you go and you buy a pie, you buy some. you buy a few drinks. Exactly. It's. like, oh, this is life. You can get some. groceries on the way. It's a very normal. concept. And that would be me after. every show, I would drive, there would. be the silence, I couldn't listen to. music, I couldn't my mind would just be.

like I could hear everybody, but they. were gone. And then I would go in and then I would. buy chocolate would be my thing. I it it. it immediately and then I I you know, over the years I would read and I had. started learning that like, you know, chocolate, the dopamine, the sugar, all. of these things. I was I was correcting. a chemical thing without realizing it. Correct. Because it is a it is a shock. on your body. Everyone, nothing. Yeah. It's it's so fascinating that that that. experience and and I'm sure people have. that in different ways in their life. Like you don't have to be a performer to.

thousands of people to experience that. I think people experience that in lots. of different ways. It's beautiful that. you've been able to. continue this 10-year WhatsApp chat. Like that's, you know, that's like a. brilliant achievement. How how did you. do in such a way that when you became. unrelatable to people? Like how is that. affected your friendships, your life, your relationships? Because at one point. I'm guessing. you know, when when you come to America, you crush on the Daily Show, things are. going great. You know, Times 100 most.

influential people. Like the crushing. took some time, but yeah, okay. No, no, of course. No, no, no. No, it took some. I mean, it took some time. No, it's like. it it actually goes into your goes into. your question. No, no, carry on, carry on, yeah. And. and I just think that there's an. interesting thing about being so. grounded and like I've I'm enjoying this. conversation. It's it's fun. We're like. just having a real conversation, but at. the same time to a lot of people. externally you can start becoming more. unrelatable. So, what's interesting is. the reason I the reason I put it in The. reason I say the crushing wasn't. instant. Um.

when you're on a journey, people often times will remember the. beginning of the journey, and. they will define the journey. by the way it currently is or how it. ended. Mhm. You know. You lived a good life. because of how your life ended. If. somebody is you know, really poor for 80. years, then they win the lottery at 80, and then they buy their family stuff, and they have a good People are like, "Man, it was tough but he had a good. life, you know?". Yeah. Wow. though? Did they though? It's more like, "Oh, we. remember we that that ending is is is.

what we often remember." Mhm. And. to your point of of relatable, my journey was really interesting, particularly in America, because for. many months, maybe even a year and a. bit, I was hated, you know, by many. people. Don't get me wrong, there were. many people who loved me, but it was. such a visceral, understandable, but. still visceral response to me as a. concept. Mhm. "Who are you? How dare you? You on. a show? What are we" You know, and. you're trying to establish Imagine.

trying to meet people for the first. time, but they have an idea of you, and. they've already decided what the idea of. you is. Oh, gosh. Yeah. And so, you you you can't even. relate or make yourself relatable to. them. And then overnight, all of a sudden. people go, "Oh, you're crushing it.". It's a It's a It's a really weird space. to be in, because it's. it's terrible, and then it's not, but. your brain doesn't shift that quickly. I. remember learning once. that the human brain.

and and the human body. aren't necessarily always on the same. page. If you're running from danger, if. there's if there's a threat, and you run. from the danger, even when the danger. subsides, your body's still in the. danger. Yeah. I think I think they talk about. something similar in the book of The. Body Keeps the Score, but Yeah, great. book. Your body's still there. And your mind. goes, "Ha, ha, Oh, okay, I'm done." Your. body's like, "Whoa, heart pumping, you. know, veins throbbing." Everything is. still happening. And and you know, that that was part of. my experience.

But what was interesting was. to your point of relatable, I didn't. even have a moment to exist in in. relatable. It was stranger, you know, don't like different, weird. Why do you say words the way you do? You. know, what is aluminum? All these things. coming together. And then, "Oh, yeah, our guy." You know, which I'm grateful. for. Eternally grateful for. I always. tell my my people, everyone, I go, "Yo, do not forget. Do not forget how hard. this was. Do not forget Do not take it.

for granted.". But what happens is. it's not that you don't become relatable. or you aren't relatable. It's It's It's. how people relate to you. They have one idea of of who you are. They have one idea of. of how you are. And it's understandable. because of how they interact with you. You know, I I have I have two younger. brothers. Both, in my opinion, far wiser than I'll ever be. I always I.

always. you know, I'll cuss them out and say, "You guys You guys cheated cuz you you. like took what I did and then you just. like you leapfrogged me." Yeah. You. know, and and and my youngest brother. said one of the most beautiful things. one day. We were trying to have dinner. as a family and we're taking a quiet. moment and. you know, someone came over to the table. and they're like, "Hey, can I get Can I. get a selfie?" And And this is happening. in the dinner and you know, and and and. someone who was with us said, "Oh, man, that must get annoying." And I was like, "Well, I get it." And I said, "I just. don't understand.

the familiarity and the I I don't. understand it, truly." And my brother. said one of the most interesting things. He said, "No, what you're not. understanding. is. a disconnect in your relationship, in. the relatability." He said, "You've met them and they've talked to. you and you've had a conversation with. them and so they've built up a. relationship with you but they don't. understand that you haven't been. building up the same relationship with. them and so they he said they're. reacting to you as naturally as they.

would had you been. conversating with them constantly. Wow, yeah. And so he said if anything. they're acting normally, you're acting. weird cuz they go hey Trevor and you're. like who the hell are you? And they're. like what do you mean we've been friends. for 7 years, I watch you on TV every. day. Yeah. And just through that lens he. helped me understand that. it's it's that they were misrelating. Yes. And that's sometimes what happens. to us I think as people is we're. misrelating. We have an idea of the. thing.

that isn't incorrect from our point of. view Yes. but is incorrect from the other person's. point of view and so that's what creates. the conflict. Wow, yeah. That's what creates the the. disconnect and that's what creates the. loneliness, that's what creates the. isolation, that's what creates the you. know. yeah it it it creates an environment. that doesn't lend itself to familiarity, to trust, to relaxation. I think that's where it becomes even. more important Yeah. to find your. grounding.

To find your space, to find you like my. friends know me in the group I'm. notorious as the vacation guy, I'm the. holiday guy. Really I I'm like where we going, what. are we doing, we're making this happen. I shoot out a list and everything. because I don't live back home. Yes. They all do. So I've learned they. can take for granted the fact that we'll. see each other and they might go like oh. did we plan anything for December? Oh we. didn't. Oh well. oh well we'll we'll do no I can't take. that for granted. Yes. And so they know. I go every year I'm like guys what are. we doing? And what are we doing here? Three times a year we have to be in the.

same place and it doesn't mean we're. going somewhere fancy. No, we might just. find a place, a house and we sit. together and that's what it's going to. be. Beautiful. But I make it happen. because of that relatability, because. that is where I can exist, they can. exist. I can exist, they can exist, you. know? Because sometimes. what's funny is it can go the other way. for me. Sometimes I will completely be myself. with people. and they won't know what to do with it. because they only have one idea of me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know?

Yeah. So they'll meet me and. Trevor, hey, how are you? Hey, hey. buddy, hey what and if I say something. back and they're like, hey, wait, what. was that? I. I'm like, oh, this is all of me. Yeah. They don't have a reference point, yeah. And I get that and so I yeah, it's it's. it's really interesting when you exist. in a one-dimensional space in terms of, you know, you know, I guess it would be. unidirectional. It's like, you know, it's just going in that one direction as. opposed to it coming back and going, you. know? Yeah, definitely. That's such a great. answer. I'm I'm one of those people that. like. generally if I get enough time to meet.

someone or if I know someone's going to. be in my life for an extended period of. time, I I hire a new person on my team. or something like that. I try and show. them all of me very quickly. I'm one of those people that like, okay, I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to. be as jokey as I usually am. I'm going. to expose you to how I talk to my wife. like and I do that not as a. not as a I definitely do it as a. conscious it's not like it happens. It's. a conscious attempt at trying to figure. out whether this person actually wants. to be around me or like me because I'd. rather quickly figure out whether I feel.

chemistry with someone. as opposed to wait to reveal my full. self. Yes. for them to what you said to then. let them down and then they're like, oh, George, I didn't know you were like. this. And so I I usually warn people. I'm. like, hey, I I make a lot more jokes in. person than I do on on Instagram and so. if I'm like and I banter a lot because. of Britain and so. me and my wife will banter a lot. So. most people think me and my wife are. going to get a divorce every other day. because it is like the way we talk to. each other because we're both from. England.

I I want people to be exposed to that. not because I I want them to appreciate. or like it. I just want to know quickly. whether whether you vibe with me or not. Okay, but but aren't you ever concerned going. the other way because you may go this is. me, this is all of me. Yeah. Now, depending on your position in life the. person may. be a certain way to you based on that. because they feel they can't and then. they reveal themselves, then what do you. do? When they reveal themselves in a. positive or like a challenging way? way. In a challenging way then well,

that's where I'm saying that it's people. that I I think are going to be in my. life for a longer period of time and. then if it's a if it's a team member. where we don't get along then we can. both move on and go our separate ways. I. wouldn't do it with someone that I I'm. not getting enough quality time with. fire someone? How does a monk fire? Well, I'm not a monk anymore. I'm a I'm. now. I'd love to know how does a monk fire. like you sit the person down. it is you know what? The thing about it. is so uncomfortable. Oh, it is. Okay. I. thought maybe as a monk it was like. super chill and you just come in and you. go in life.

everything is happening to you. You know, everything that seems bad. could be good. And so do not think of. this as me letting you go but rather. think of this as me setting you free. Yeah. I thought maybe it would be something. more like that. Surrender. And then you have to end it. with surrender. No, that would be. brilliant but so it is uncomfortable. Oh, it's so uncom- as in I've also been. let go so I know what it feels like. Like I've been in a position where I. think I've been let go poorly where it. hasn't been handled well where.

and I'm very clear on how like having. one skill set doesn't just naturally. apply to everything. I being a monk. doesn't make me good at recruiting. people or or letting go of people. Those. are not transferable skills. There's. certain elements of compassion and. empathy. Okay. but it doesn't make you good at. the art. Like I I think for to give you. a a very practical example, I felt. for a lot of a long time that. people needed love. Like I I felt for a.

long time that I believed that if you. love people then they'll be happy and. they'll feel good about stuff. And I used to believe that and after. trying to express love to people even in. the way they wanted so not even. unconsciously but I would try and figure. out how does this person receive love? Okay, let me give them love in the way. they want to receive love. I realized that so many people were not. even operating on that level yeah? That. what they needed was safety. Damn. Like. they just needed a base level of safety.

They weren't they couldn't even accept. or receive love. Because that was such a lofty deep idea. It's like they they didn't understand. how someone who doesn't know them very. well could express deep love for them. because they've never experienced that. before. How do you find. the correct safety to convey? And and what I mean by that is. we all have a different idea of what. safety means. Mhm. You know, going back to the your.

idea of you know, when you were saying. stability and stability earlier in the. conversation. One of the wildest. discoveries I made in therapy. was. where I was speaking to my therapist and. I realized. I am particularly comfortable in chaos. Mhm. That is where I'm most comfortable. Mhm. You know, if if you're in an airport and. you know, flights are being cancelled. and you know, everything's being delayed. you want me rolling with you. Like I'm that is me. Problem, I solve.

it. I. genuinely I find. a beautiful hum of peace that comes over. me when there is chaos. Traffic, everything, cars, not. that's where I'm comfortable. And yet the flip I also discovered was. true is that when there's calm. now I'm in chaos. Wow. You know, and so I learned that. I felt safest Mhm. where most people. didn't. Yes. And I felt the least safe Mhm.

where most people would. You know, and I. learned a lot of that came because. growing up in a home. where there was domestic abuse, you you know, this the silence meant you. didn't know. Mhm. Mhm. Anything could. happen at any moment. What's going on? What's happening? Don't know. You don't. know. But when something is happening, all you have to do is deal with it. Yeah. Wow. I mean, that's Do you Do you. get what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, I mean, but that's like. that's such a challenging, difficult.

idea Right. to grasp. And so, what you're saying is. that if I can hear gunshots, at least I. know. Well, I know where the shooting's coming. from. Correct. Yeah, yeah, exactly. where to run away to from You get what. I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, no, no, no. I fully get what. you're saying, but I'm just saying that. that is a challenging concept for people. to get around because if you've not been. brought If you've not been raised in a. space like that, like that's so much to. do with your upbringing. Yeah, and but. but that's what I mean by safety. So, that's why I'm asking. yeah, yeah. So, How do you even find. that because, you know, I understand.

what you mean by love because again, how. we process it, what our languages are, etc., are so are so specific. Yeah. But. even safety, you know, my my idea of. safety isn't the same as your idea of. safety. not. Yeah. You know, whether it'll be in. a personal relationship, in a romantic. relationship. You know, some people's. idea of safety is, "Hey, you You text me. every day and you Exactly. me to make sure I got home and you. Another person's idea of safety is, "You. leave me alone when I'm busy. That makes. me feel safe. You take care of. yourself." Makes me feel safe. You You. know what I mean? So, how do you then.

find what the person's. idea of safety is then? Well, I think. it's what you just said, that there's a. hierarchy of needs, right? And everyone. has their different, like you said, like. the the the base level, and I'm looking. at the Vedas, which is what I studied as. a monk, and it says that the base level. of anyone's motivator is fear and. anxiety, right? Like people get. motivated by fear and anxiety. So, the. lack of fear and anxiety is a sense of. safety. Okay. Right? Higher than that is someone who's. motivated by uh results or goals. So,

they feel safe when they're moving. towards something. They feel safe when. they're driving towards a deadline that. is clear and active. Another level is. tranquility and calm. And it's like. someone feels safe when they feel. clarity. Okay. Right? And so, in a similar what. you're saying, like there's some So, I. think what I realized though was that. safety was such a base need of humans. Right. That until you fulfill that need, Huh. it love just And And this is just.

experience, right? I'm I'm saying this. from experience. I just felt like. opening my heart to people or like. trying to give love to people in a very. genuine way, I just felt that it it couldn't fully be. received because I realized most people. have probably never received love even. maybe from their parents or their family. or from the people they expected to love. them. So, when someone unexpected comes. along and tries to show you love, it's. like, "What is it What does he want? Or. what is he going on?" Or, you know, "Where does this land?" And so, I was. like, "All right, like reel it back.". You know, reel it back and just figure.

out safety first. Anyway, that was at. least a personal experience, but But But. why did we get there? We got there. because. we're talking about this idea with you. of like We're talking about. relatability. Yeah. And we're And we're. moving through to, you know, safety and. love and then meeting people. And you're. talking about how you um will reveal all. of yourself early on that so that the. person I guess is in the safest space, really. Yeah. And And that's only my method. I'm. Again, I'm not saying that's right or. wrong. It's just kind of And even what. you said earlier, like you said like, "Jay, you always feel safe." I think I.

do I feel the opposite, too. I feel most. unsafe when I think I'm somewhere and I. don't have a purpose there. Okay. So, if I get invited to a place where I. don't feel I have any purpose, you will. see me just like I will last like 30. minutes and then I will leave because. I'm just like, "What am I going to do. here? I'm not just going to shoot the. breeze. So, do you practice then not doing? Being in my purpose. Yeah. Yeah, so when. I'm in a space like that, I will I will. look at I will I will be there. Of. course, I can I can have conversations. and I can talk and everything else.

You're not crying in a corner or. something. Obviously, yeah. But I'm. saying, but do you Do you think I'm What. I'm asking is do you have to work on. that? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, because. it's a discomfort. It's a discomfort. that I have to work on, which is well, I. don't know why I'm here. I don't know. what my purpose is. And then the And. then sometimes my way of talking to. myself is. you never know, there may be something. here. And you have to be open to that. If I If. I live If I sit here and I'm closed to. that, then I may never discover. anything. If I'm open to it, maybe I'll. discover something, maybe I won't. How.

do you find the balance between. knowing when to walk away and when the. opportunity may present itself? I feel. like I feel like that's the greatest. challenge in life, because sometimes you. you find yourself. at an event, whatever it may be. Be a. work event, a friend's Whatever it may. be. You go, "Oh, man, I'm not having fun. here. I'm not having a good time. I'm. not And then as you say, the one idea. may be, "Hey, stay in this discomfort, and what may come from it is something. special, which often times can happen.

The flip is true as well. I stayed there. for too long. I stayed in that. relationship for too long. I stayed at. that job for too long. I I I stayed in. that environment for too long. It was. discomfort, and I thought I was going to. get something out of it. I often hear. people saying that even you know, they'll they'll you know, friends, colleagues, strangers sometimes I'll meet, they'll. say, "Yeah, but I I've just it. I've been doing it for so long now, and. I just feel like maybe there's there's. there's something and and you know, and. then I I will say.

and I don't know if even if if I'm. right, I go, "Maybe the lesson you're. learning is when to walk away or how to. walk away." But I don't even know this. myself, first of all. You know, you may. leave the thing that that's making me. uncomfortable. Because of that you have. a certain type of this experience. Totally. And you go, oh, that's why I. left cuz this was supposed to happen. You always confirm. You always have that. confirmation bias. Absolutely. Or you stay and then something happens. and you go like, ah, I was always. supposed to stay. So, how do you how do. you how do you know or do you accept the. fact that you don't know? I think that's I think you literally. just answered you like what you got on.

our journey. Yeah, you don't Yeah, you. No, no, you're spot on. You don't know. Like you don't know, right? Like and and. you can only. you can I I think it's also a matter of. time, right? I think if I was and this. is again personal, but. there's a difference between like if we. got here on this beautiful set up that. we have that you were admiring and you. were saying you like the energy and you. know, I do too. If we got here on Friday, which was when. we first started filming here. If I didn't like it on Friday, if I. didn't like the energy and I could tell. the guest didn't like the energy, I.

would have shifted the room immediately. Because I'm not going to wait around if. I'm. clear on something or I'm I'm sensing. it. Right. I think jobs are harder because. They're tied to your survival. Exactly. And so I think when things are tied to. your survival, we tend to spend longer. in them than we probably should. Yeah. Because that safety again and. security is so tied to that. And I think. that's why relationships, as you rightly. pointed out, homes. Yes. Like I I was just talking my my uncle. and aunt like uh you know, my my.

grandparents have passed away, they've. moved on. And you know, they've been. wanting to move home, they've said for. many many years, but now they don't want. to uh they live in London and they have. a house and they want to they want to. move to a uh. a different environment, they've always. wanted, but now they're like, no, no, no, but all our memories in this house, right? And so there's that there's that. familiarity and they're like, no, I. don't want to leave even though I don't. love this house as a structure and as a. space. I don't want to leave. And I. think that's what we do with people.

But but I guess that that's a good. question for you that you've you've. obviously had to find home again and. again. You've continued to find it in. yourself. Like. how have you let go of previous. identities and personalities? And are. you because that's where we started, like. I think I've had to do that a lot of. times. Like even when you said monk and. I always say, "Well, I'm not anymore.". And the reason I say that is because I. had to let go of so many. parts of that identity that don't serve. me anymore. There are lots of parts of.

that identity that serve me massively. There are lots of parts of that identity. that don't serve me. Uh same with uh same with anything. Like. any work I've done. So, I guess today. when you're deciding who you want to be. Uh one of the things I've taken away. from this. episode for sure and talking to you and. I I've genuinely enjoyed talking to you. is. we know you're a very smart, intellectual, thoughtful person about. what's happening in the world. But what. I find really beautiful and refreshing. is that today you're doing the same. things internally on your inner world.

Has that always been a habit? You even. said to today when you walked in before. we even started recording, you were. like, "Jay, well, I've been on all day. I need to just reflect and decompress. and think about stuff.". Has that always been a habit? Is there a. method you use? Is there a Is there an. approach? Or is it just something you. naturally just go into that inner world? Although I'm not particularly religious, I would have to say growing up religious. instilled within me the idea that I. could have conversations with myself and.

they were necessary. in order for me to process. what I was going through. You know, that's that's what prayer is. in my opinion. It's a conversation that. you are having multiple times a day. You. are remembering, you are thinking, you. are discussing, you are exposing your. vulnerabilities, you are whatever it may. be. You are You are doing. In In doing that as a little child, you. know, getting on my knees and praying, one of my. favorite lessons.

that my mom taught me was. that your relationship with God is your. relationship with God. You know, she if. I was in trouble. she wouldn't say to me, "Pray in front. of me. Let me hear you pray." No, she'd. be like, "You go and go and pray.". And so, what I am grateful for in that. experience was that my relationship with. God was then always my relationship with. God. It was my conversation. Wasn't. performative. It It wasn't I remember as a little kid. just like asking random questions, you.

know, I'd go to bed and I'd be like, "Oh. God. man, why do I break things all the time? It's like, why? I don't know what it is. Like. I mean, you were there with me. I don't. know why. Why don't you stop me. sometimes? Like, you know, you never. stop me. And then then I'll just be. there as a kid and I would I don't want. to break things, but then I broke it. And I knew it was going to break. And. now mom's angry and. please try and make her not as angry. And but I'd have these conversations and. I would feel different afterwards. I. would feel better. I'd feel like I'd. processed something.

And there's an element of prayer that I. think a lot of people take for granted. Is that processing of the information. that's often times just running away in. your head. Like just really running away. in your head. In that I I just try and ask questions. I. I just tell people, you know, I could. like I don't know if I I don't think I'm. smart. I think I'm. I think I I'm. more and more confident in being an. idiot to be honest with you.

You know, I. I have friends who I consider smart. because I can ask them about anything, you know, I have friends who know about. you know, quantum. gravity and whatever it is. I'm just. face books. I always go like, "You're. reading face books again." I have. friends who know about, you know, the. the deepest trenches of of football. history. I know friends who they. they're smart in my opinion. But I'm proud to say I'm an idiot. And. so, when you let go of that sometimes,

what I find is I then enjoy asking. questions. Yeah, yeah. You know, I. in most of my work, that's what I'm. doing is I'm asking questions. As a. comedian, I'm asking questions of how we. live in society. Why do we accept. certain things the way we do? And I. think it's funny that we do. And have. you ever noticed how And And that's what. a lot of comedians do. They're asking a. question about something that everybody. accepts as the norm. You know, I do it in in my job on The. Daily Show. I ask questions about how. people see politics and why they see. politics and you know, whatever it may. be. I ask questions, you know?

I remember one day someone said to me, some random person said to me, he's. like, "Oh, it's crazy, you know, you. came to this country and you know, as a. Democrat, you probably I said, "Whoa, wait, what do you mean as a Democrat? In. my country, we don't have that." Yeah. And many political parties, we're not. forced into a binary system. That's. already You didn't ask a question, you. made an assumption. Mhm. You know, and. so, even that has helped me where I come. from, there is not just this or that. Yeah. America's It has like a very very. player hating vibe to it. It's like,

"Look what that party's doing and look. what that party's like, "Yeah, but what. You know what I mean? If you're voting. for these things, shouldn't you be. concerned about what you're going for? Wow. Wow. It's your party. Yeah. You. know? And so, but as a comedian, I'm. going like, "Where are the jokes? I'll. follow the jokes, I'll tell you that. much cuz that's what my purpose is in. that moment.". Um. And this goes to everything I do in. life, you know, I've been lucky enough. to work on different projects like. yourself, you know, I work in tech. I. work with Microsoft on things. Funny, the I remember the. president of the company one day cuz he. said like, "We're going to call you the. chief questions officer That's so good.

Yeah, cuz I've been lucky and you know, Yeah. I love tech. And a lot of tech is. asking questions. Mhm. A lot of what I do in life is. enjoying asking questions. and becoming less afraid of how stupid. you may seem or feel asking the. question. Yeah. That's often times what. I I see with kids. The reason they learn as quickly as they. do, it's not just because of their. brains. Yeah. But I feel like it's. because they they don't have an idea of. who they are or aren't supposed to be, and so they ask questions. And they ask.

questions, and they ask questions, and. they ask questions, and they ask. questions, and they ask questions. And. so what happens is. A, they get answers, but B, they discover that the people they're. asking the questions of sometimes don't. even have the answer. They just assumed. an idea or a way, you know, the way the. world was. And I I often remind myself. that if I if I become too tied to the. idea of being smart. or being informed or knowing, then I'm trapped. I I would rather say I. try to be smart, I try to be informed,

but if there's one thing I know I am, well, it's an idiot, and there's nothing. wrong with that, and I enjoy it, you. know, because then I can be the smartest. idiot you've ever met, and I can be the. most informed idiot you've ever met, and. I'm fine with that, cuz I'm just trying. to be the most natural me. That's that's. a that's a good identity. One thing I've noticed about the way you. ask questions in our interview, when you. interviewed me, but also today, and. something I appreciate and there is it's. it's rare as I think most people, when. you were saying like someone assumed you.

were a Democrat, I think most people ask. questions in order to either agree or. disagree with what comes out the other. person's mouth. Yeah. But we ask our best questions when we. simply ask to learn and infer. And so. now it's not asking to see whether we're. on the same page. You're just asking to. know. Because I think what we often do. is we ask a question, and even if the. base answer kind of sounds similar, we. go, "Oh, we're on the same page." Like,

"Oh, me and you, you know, we like we. have the same values." And it's like, "Well, no, we don't. We just haven't dug. deep enough." And I think we're often. not patient, and I think that's why in. so many relationships in our lives and. everywhere, what you said, you said a. friend is someone who I know how they'd. be in most situations. And I think when you quickly go, "Oh, yeah, yeah, we have the same values. We. have the same belief system.". That That's often incorrect because we. just haven't asked enough questions to. infer because we really want to feel. Does that Does that hit a nerve? Yeah. No, it does actually. I feel like.

that when you ask questions. And so, I'm. I'm throwing that back at you saying. when when you ask questions, I'm like. So, going back to what we were talking. about or being an outsider, being an. insider, where do I find home, where do. I find familiar familiarity? You are familiar with this to a certain. degree because of moving out of the UK, going to India, you know, going on that. journey, and then moving from there, and. then coming to America. It's another. What One thing that happens to you when. you leave home. is that you have to then either find.

home. or you have to understand why this is. home, or you have to become comfortable. in a new space so that it will be your. new your new home. And the best way to do that is by. understanding, is what I find. Often times, you aren't forced to. understand. if you are in the majority. If If the. norm is your world, you're fine. Yeah. If everyone has your accent, well, then. you don't need to understand another.

accent. Yes. If everybody is your skin color, you. don't need to understand another skin. color. Everybody's your culture. If. everybody's your language. If. everybody's your you know, socioeconomic. class, whatever it may be, then you don't need to understand. Mhm. And so, what I've grown up with because I grew. up with a black woman, Xhosa woman, being my mother, white man, Swiss man, being my father, family mixed, country broken up, separated because of class, because of.

race predominantly, I I found myself often having to. understand. whatever it was, language, culture, music, food. I did I have to understand. And what I found. is that is often the fastest path to. home. is just understanding. You know, a hammock is a terrible bed. unless you understand how to sleep in. it. And I think the same goes for everyone.

and everything. A foreign country doesn't feel like home. until you understand the language. And then all of a sudden things start to. work. Yeah. You know, so when I ask a. question of you as Jay, I genuinely do. it to understand, you know, because. if you know, with you I I agree and I'm. genuinely trying to understand more. because the things I may disagree with. funny enough more is like how I'm living. my life and I'm trying to understand. more about like how you see and then how. do I, you know, it's not to agree or. disagree but more it's like, "Oh, I need. to understand this more.". Yeah. And then sometimes it'll be with. people who I don't agree with them. So,

I want to understand. I see the world. and it seems so clear to me. Can you. explain why you don't see what I'm. seeing? Yeah. You know? That's That's. often times what plagues me as as a. person is I think we live in a world now. where. there are fewer and fewer experiences. that we all relate to or that we've all. gone through. And so. while that's great for individualism and. it's great for us, you know, living in. our own niche, it has robbed us of a.

collective understanding. And so whether. it's in politics or whether it's in. society, whatever it is, you know, I think it's healthy to. disagree. You know, to say like, you. know, Jay, oh, I don't. but it's another thing to say, you know, oh, that's my parking. No, that's my. parking versus that's my parking, what. parking? Wait, you don't see a parking? Well, now we're in a bigger and I that's. why I feel like society's moving towards. as. as everything entertainment, social. media, all these things become more. niche, I think we're losing that.

collective space to be in and so. because I've always been outside Yes. because I've never been part of. I've always been forced to understand. Mhm. Why do you do that? Why do you say that? How do you eat this? You know, so. when I'm in India and I'm eating and I. go, "Okay, can you help me? Help me. understand why you use your hand the way. you do. What are you trying to Okay, great. Chopsticks for the first time I. have to. All these things as opposed to assuming. or even not being willing to.". And so maybe that's why I ask a question.

the way I do Yeah. is because I just. don't understand why you see the world. the way you do. And once I do, I now get. to hold two truths. Like I get to see how you see the world. I get to know how I see the world. And I. may. augment my way of seeing it or I'll be. able to help you understand why I see it. the way I do because I now understand. yours. Yeah. I don't think I can do that. if I if I don't ask, you know. Absolutely. That That's exactly what I'm. trying to say is that when I was saying. learn, that's what I mean, understand.

Like you're asking to learn, you're. asking to understand. You're There's not. an asking to say, "Yes, we're the same.". or "No, we're not the same.". And and I I read somewhere when when I. was looking at this interview about how. you were saying like because you've. never felt. of something, you've always felt. outside, you've always been able to see. the full picture. And I was literally just saying this. today that I grew up in a home where my. parents really agreed on anything. Mhm. And I was always the mediator. Interesting.

And so I would sit and listen to my mom. and I would understand how how she felt. Interesting. And then I'd sit and listen to my dad. and I always had a equal level of love. and respect for them from their. individual relationship with me even. though collectively they didn't they. didn't have it together. And I found. that when I read that about you, I I I. was wanting to ask you about it because. I was like. that's where I I feel happier learning. about people and trying to understand. people because I could see both my mom. and dad were right in so many ways. Like.

I would sit with my mom and be like, "How does dad not see that? Right. And. I'll sit with dad and be like, how does. mom not see that? Like how are we. missing this part of the picture? And I. failed miserably at trying to help the. situation. But I think that's partly why. I do what I do today because so much of. me was exposed to different opinions. So, I when I when I read that about you, I was like So, before. Go on. Yeah, go on. I'd love to know, how did you deal with that feeling? Like. how did you deal with the idea and I. know you you you're saying it flippantly.

in conversation, but like how did you. deal with the pressure and the idea that. you failed to reconcile what was. happening between the two of them? I. think it took me years to accept that. and to to feel that way because I think. when you're a kid, it's what you said, you just accept that this is normality. So, when I was a kid, I didn't even. think of it. I was like, this is normal. Parents don't get along. I want to help. my mom out. I'm a good son. I want to. help my dad out. You know, we're. figuring it out. And I'd probably say I. spent a good part of like. at least my adult life, so say from.

well, maybe not even adult, maybe since. I was 10. Maybe from 10 to 21, like. probably 11 years trying to fix that and. trying to think I could fix that or that. we could improve it. And while things got better, Sorry, just. to interrupt you. To your point because you were trying to. create the safety because as a child, I. feel like there are few things that make. you feel less safe than your two. parental figures, you know? Sorry, but. carry on. No, no, no, please. No, I'm just saying going back to the. safety that you're saying. You were. trying to. make your world safe. Because love didn't work. It didn't It.

didn't matter how many Valentine's Days. there were. It didn't matter how many. romantic gestures. It didn't matter if. saying I love you or a love letter. But. it was safety, yeah. And so, I was. trying that probably for a good 11 years. and then I think. when I went off to the monastery, it was. still there in my heart. And then I. think while I was there, I was like, okay, I have to let go of this because. it's not my. responsibility. It's not my ability. I. don't have the powers to fix this. And that's okay. And that if I'm able to. let go of this,

then not only will things improve there, I can help people who want to be helped. as well. And I think that was a whole. like probably like a 15-year journey to. to get to that because otherwise you. hold it as your Right. like your like. responsibility, like this is my job. almost. Yeah, and I think that's what many of us. have done is. Yeah. we have. been burdened with. and often times subconsciously a job or. a role that our parents didn't realize. they were burdening us with. Wow. You.

know, often times I I find it so. interesting how. the loudest parents who aren't good at. reading a room will have the the most. shy child. Yes. You know, and and then the parents. who aren't good at being outgoing and. what they'll have kids who are running. and screaming and greeting everybody and. talking to them because there's this. interesting thing that happens in nature. where I feel like. you know, the child tries to correct for. what the parent may be lacking. Wow. You know, So true. and and it's it's. really fascinating that you say that.

Yeah, because what happens is over time. you get to an age where then you have to. take off, you know, that armor, take off. that cape, take off that that. designation. That designation, yes, that's right. that now you've lived that, you've. gained the tools from it, it's become a. lot of who you are today, but you have to let it go. And that that. I find is terrifying. because the only thing scarier than. accepting. who we are. is accepting that we don't know who we.

are going to be when we let go of the. things that have made us who we are. today. Yeah. And that's that not knowing. as simple as leaving a party early, it's. that same feeling of discomfort of like. did I make the right choice? If I stayed. here, would it have If I kept that role, would it have. And yeah, I was talking to a client the. other day, and she said something really. interesting. She was saying, "I just. never grew up with an opinion." She. goes, "I've I've just never really had. an opinion.".

And I've known her for some time, so it. was a fairly uh it was a it was a. progressed conversation. It wasn't the. first time. And and we were talking about that. She. was saying, "Well, I've never really had. an opinion on this or that. And so, when. when people ask me what I want to do, or. when my partner asks me what I want to. do, I I kind of like go along with it. But now I'm starting to question like, am I living my life or someone else's?". Right. And it was really interesting because we. we were really getting into it, and. I I started talking to her about her. parents and family dynamic.

And she said something really phenomenal. to me. She said that. "My brother and my dad always used to. argue. And I was the peacemaker.". Mhm. And she goes, "When I felt pain, I never. shared it because it would create more. complexity. Right. And so, I accept that she came to. the conclusion that the reason I don't. have an opinion is because it disturbs. the peace. And when I don't have an opinion, the. peace is kept." And I would you know,

those are the kind of things that we're. saying, like we take the designation of. peacemaker, you take the role in the. designation of whatever I was Yes. Sometimes the comedians take on the role. of being a comedian because you you kind. of get on the laugh, and everyone, you. know. And so, I think these roles that you're. talking about are really it's a really. beautiful way that you said it, that we. we adopt this job and this role and this. designation. I I think I think we do. And I often. think sometimes it is. necessary. Of course. I think it may be.

evolutionary. I Whatever it is, you know, again, that's why I don't go. to it's bad, it's good. I go it is. It. just is. And and in understanding it, I realize there's nothing wrong with it. being as long as you know when to let it. go. Mhm. You know, I I often think of. that about seat belts. When I'm in a car. or on a plane, sometimes. I forget that I'm wearing the seat belt. I love wearing my seat belts, especially. on a plane. I I buckle it long before. they tell I'm like in strapped. I don't.

know what it is. I love it. Buckle and. fly even when you see it go off. You. still. You know You know when they'll turn seat. belt like on? I'm like, "What do you. mean on?" The whole flight I will be. wearing the seat belt. Thank you very. much. And what will happen sometimes I'm so. comfortable feeling that whole time. When we land, we we chill. I don't rush. to get my bags, any of that. And then I'll stand and the seat belt. will pull me And it's always like a I. laugh to myself. It always happens cuz. it's cuz it's really down. and it just, you know, as I jump I was. like, "Huh." Pulls me back down. And I. always giggle and I I I unbuckle it.

And I I I found myself thinking the one. day I was like, "It's amazing how this. this device is is is brilliant. It saves. your life, you know, you know, car. crash, you know, you you know, plane. crash on a runway or whatever. I don't. know how much it'll save you in a big. one, but still, you know, but this thing. is it it holds you. Wow." Mhm. It's. helping you stay intact. It's helping. you stay in the place you need to be in, but. if you don't know how to let it go when. you need to, now you're trapped. Yeah. And and so that's what I'm. constantly trying to work on, which is.

so hard. Yeah, it's like man, I go like, "Okay, all right, my safe my safety. belt, my seat belt, all right. It might. be my personality. It might be the way I. see the world. It might be how I've. learned to interact with others. It. might be anything, how I eat, how I. think, what I do, what I don't, what I. love, what I All these things. And and I get that and I I'm always just. trying to ask myself. I go, "Okay, all. right, is this still your seat belt. or has it now become a trapping?".

And I always just have to ask myself. that question. It's extremely difficult. I've been, you know, You just go around. and around and stuff. Sometimes I do. You know, a lot of the time I'll I'll. I'll be chill, but sometimes, woof. I. don't think I can watch Harry Potter the. same again. I don't think I don't think. I don't think I don't think I can be on. a plane the same again. Like I I. yeah, I love how you think. I I think. it's so refreshing. to to hear that and I I one of the. biggest thing I'm taking about this is. just this ability to really question our. lives, question things. I think I think.

that is the the purpose of life is is to. start asking questions. And what I loved. about at least at least the scriptures I. study in the Eastern side, they're all. Q&As. Like they're all cute question and. answers. None of them are like talking. or lecturing or. lecturing or. and I think that was a big part of how. we were trained to believe that all. inquiry was the birth of wisdom. Like it. had to be an inquiry, it had to be a. conversation. It couldn't be a a lecture.

or a seminar. And and you know, I I. think when I sit with you and whenever. I've sat with you and whenever I've. watched you, which I've admired you for. so long, I think the the quality of. questioning is really what we should be. more focused on than than the result and. the answers as you were saying earlier. that if we asked questions we were. actually interested in knowing the. answer to, we'd actually listen to the. answer. But Trevor, we end the show with. two segments. These are fast segments. You've been more than generous with your. time. So the first segment is called.

the many sides to us. And so these you have to answer in one. word. And there's five questions. So are you. ready? I'm ready. Okay. What is one word to describe what. someone would say about you meeting you. for the first time? Friendly. Friendly. Okay, yeah. Friends. and friendly, two different things, but. friendly. Okay. Question number two. What is one word to describe what. someone would say about you that knows. you extremely well? Consistent. Nice. Okay. Question number three.

What is one word you'd use to describe. yourself? Mercurial. Okay. All right, now I'm going to have. to ask you to expand, like that that I. was not expecting that word. That is a. very Yeah, tell me why that word, like. you can now go off one word, like. I'm. consistent. in the fact that I'm also mercurial. Part of it, funny enough, I I I think. was. not created by, but as as somebody who. has ADHD, Mhm. it took me a long time to. learn in life what that did to my brain, how that affected how I process time, an.

idea, a thought, a an object, any any. inquiry that I would have could be in. some way, shape, or form affected by. that. And I think, funny enough, there's. a there's a huge misunderstanding. Sometimes I actually, you know, hate how. we've created a lot of the conversations. around the mind is the best way to put. it, you know, because. that some of the some of the terms have. have become so rote, and some of the. ideas have become so simple when they're. not.

Um I remember when I was young and I was. diagnosed with ADHD, they made they made. it seem like. you can't pay attention, when in fact, it's the fact that you can't choose what. to pay pay attention to. Mhm. Very good. at paying attention, you know? And so. Wow, wow, wow, yes. It's a very nuanced, subtle. yeah, it makes a big difference. makes a big difference, even though it's. a tiny thing, yeah. And so, what what. what's been wonderful for me in life is. learning again how to be grateful for. how I've dealt with something,

not even looking at it through the lens. of good or bad, but just going it is, Mhm. and then understanding it like that, you. know? And And that's what I mean by I. think we've really hurt ourselves in. society with with how we've had some. conversations because. we've made it seem bad or good as. opposed to understanding Yeah. because. it may not be the same as the norm, you. know? So, is a short person good or bad? No, they they're just short. And the. reason we say short is because they're. short relative to the general.

population, the same way someone who's. tall is tall relative to the general. population. Now, if you are tall, you. may be bumping your head a lot more than. other people. If you're short, you may. not be reaching the things that people. have put at an average height. I think. the same thing goes for the mind. If you are blessed enough to have a mind. or a mentality that is of the norm, most. things will work for you and most things. will make sense in life. If your mind isn't, that's why they use. divergent, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong, but you you you need to understand how.

your mind will react to a world that has. been designed in a certain way. And so, that is why I've I've learned to. understand and accept. I go, "I'm. mercurial." Again, was a friend who. taught me that and I I loved it once I. understood. At first I was I was like, "No, I'm not I'm not." He's like, "You. He's like, yeah, you're mercurial." And. I was like, "First of all, explain the. word.". Yeah, yeah, yeah. he explained it to me. I was like, "I'm. not that. I'm the". And then I realized I could could I. could be two things. Yeah. I'm extremely. consistent. Anyone who needs me knows me. They know.

where to find me. They know how I'll be. But I'm also mercurial in that how I. feel about this on a day and how I feel. about that on a day. may be more extreme than somebody else's. range. And so, in that, again, just the. understanding and asking the questions. of myself, I then I then exist in a. space where I understand. So, what would. be funny is sometimes I'll meet people. and they'll get distracted and be like, "Oh, sorry, that's my ADHD." And I'm. like, "That's not. what it is, but Yeah, very right. Whatever. You know, that like people. have done this with everything. "Oh, I'm.

sorry, I'm OCD." It's like, I don't. Okay. Yeah, that's not what it Yeah, and. so we have these very limited. understandings of these words. caricatures Yes, caricatures exactly. be. And we've also created an idea. of them being a bad Correct. good, whatever. It's like, "No, it's. just understanding." The same thing we. did with glasses at some point. Nearsighted, farsighted, I wear glasses. And now and then at At point it was just. that's what it is. Yeah. I think we have a long way to go. in the conversations we have around the.

mind. Yes. In getting us to the same place. where when you meet someone. they can say that to you and you now. understand that the Oh, I wear glasses. Okay, great. Yes. You know, whereas I'm sure there. was a point where it was like I wear. glasses, so you're blind? Now people are. just like Oh, you do you wear glasses or. you wear or you wear contacts? Okay, cool. That's that's who you are. Yeah, and I and I think that's what it is that. our vocabulary around the mind and our. psychology is very limited and and. you're spot on and one thing that you. just said that really struck a chord was. the idea that if the world is designed. for the average.

Yeah. then the challenge is that anyone. outside of it feels broken. Mhm. And and that's where I think we've. gone wrong where it's like there's a. weakness or a broken and it's like no, the world if the world was designed for. Right. those people Right. then we'd. feel broken. And it's just that the. world's been designed for these few. people. If you created a new planet that. was for only people who had a certain. certain uh. disposition. Yeah. then it would be a very different. case. Yeah, I know. I I I love that. That's a That's a great That's another. whole two-hour That's another We'll save.

that. Yeah, we'll save it. All right, question. number four. Uh what is one word uh that. if someone didn't agree with you or like. you, how would they what would they say. about you? Not like I'm not talking. about like an internet troll or. something like that. Stubborn. Stubborn, right? Okay, yeah. There you go, that's a good word. Yeah, yeah, that's good. That makes sense. I. like that. All right, question number. five. What is a word that you're trying. to embody right now? Is there like a a. focus, a presence with a particular. characteristic or value or belief? Mindful. Mhm. Great. All right, that's a. great That's a fantastic. Most people. struggle with this, so you did You you.

hit it out of the park. All right, these. are the final five. These are easy, one. word to one sentence. What's the best. advice you've ever received? Never assume. It's a great piece of. advice. Second question, what is the. worst piece of advice you've ever heard? Always be yourself. That's really All right, uh question. times Yeah. to be your Don't just be. yourself. People say though. relax. Just be yourself. Relax. Yeah. Yeah. You know when to be yourself is a better. piece of advice someone can give you. That's good. Uh question number three.

What is something you used to value that. you no longer value? Fame. So, there was. a time when it was important and. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I think I. I thought that it would give me. something. that I searched for my whole life and. that was a certain sense of belonging. You know, because there's a there's a. familiarity you have with people when. you see them. I never cared for it. through the lens of like I'm better or. No, but I was like, "Oh, man. Everyone. knows that person. Everyone likes that. person." And you know, here I was this. kid and I grew up alone for so long. I.

was like, "Oh, I I'll be familiar." And. the word fame, you know, when you look. at the root. I was like, "Oh, that that thing. I'll. be familiar." And then ironically, as I. said, it jumps straight to your. unfamiliar. And so, then I realized I. was like, "Oh, man. You don't think that. it will come from something. but rather understand what you're trying. to achieve and then, you know, figure. out how you're trying to get there. That's beautiful. I love that. Question. number four. How would you define your. current purpose? As being a fertilizer.

For? Everything and everyone I come into. contact with. I would hope to be. somebody who enriches the soil that I. touch. I would hope to be somebody who improves. somebody's life in the slightest of. ways. Whether it's helping you solve a. problem, whether it's giving you. directions in the streets in New York, whether it's. uh making you laugh at a show, you know, talking about politics, whatever it may. be. I would hope to do what a good. fertilizer does in that.

it enables the soil to be richer. It. enables the plant to grow taller. It. it it brings all of the pieces together. You know, it it becomes it becomes a. food. It becomes it becomes a food that. creates more food. You You it it's not it's not a zero-sum. game. And so, I would say that that would. probably be what I'd like to focus on. most right now, even for myself, cuz. fertilizer even makes itself bigger. Yeah. It grows itself. Yeah. You add. more mulch to it and it keeps on going. And so, I think I think even for me.

Yeah. um you know, I I I look to try and. fertilize as much as I can. I love that. That is one of my favorite answers to. that question we've ever had. All right, uh fifth and final question of the whole. interview. If you could create one law. that everyone in the world had to. follow, what would it be? Everyone in. the world, right? I'd create a law that. said. everyone everywhere in the world. randomly randomly randomly. could be. given. the lowest person's bank account.

Like that it could be like it that would. be the law is that we we do this weird. system where every. whatever it may be, every year randomly. the lowest person's bank account can. just go out and become everybody's bank. account. Wow. The reason I would do that is because I. think. if we lived in a society. where more people felt like their fate. was tied. to the least of us. they would have a little more compassion.

and. think a little more. about how those people may or may not be. existing. Mhm. And that's why I say I wouldn't say. anyone can't be rich. I'm not saying. that. I wouldn't say anyone can make as. much money as they want. Oh, no, go. ahead. You know, we should all be doing. that. Enjoy it. Go for it. But I would just want us all to know. that the lowest bank balance, the lowest. amount that someone has. could randomly go out. And it wouldn't. be to everyone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get. you. just have it it would be like 10% of the.

population. That's what's going to. happen. It's the law. Yeah. Every year. 10% of the population, your bank balance. becomes what the person with the least. amount has in that in that in in the in. the world. Mhm. I just wonder how we. would live. Yeah. I genuinely would. because. Yeah, I I think sometimes. I understand that you know, capitalism, hyper capitalism, you know, this thing. we've been tricked into and believing. that in order for you to have I cannot. have as if trading didn't exist long. before it. All of that has tricked us into a world.

of believing. that mine is only mine and yours cannot. come with it. Mhm. So, I wonder what. would happen in that space. I think even. myself everyone would pay a lot more. attention to like, "Yo, how much do you. have? Yo, we need to get your balance. up.". Yeah, yeah. Cuz. I'm I'm trying to keep my life as. comfortable as it is. Yeah, and the. feeling of it could be any of us. Mhm. That. Yeah, that mindset is a. People take it for granted, Jay. Like it. could it could always be any of us. Totally. 100% yeah. Luck is the most. random. Yeah. You can work as hard as you want.

Luck is a huge factor. You can be the. best, luck is a factor. You can be the. worst, luck is a factor. So, you know, it really could be any one of. us. And so, I don't take for granted. that I'm lucky. I work hard. I try and. you know, I try and shape as much of the. the environment that my luck will exist. within, but I never take for granted. that I'm lucky. Trevor, there's a new. thing I learned about you today that you. don't just ask good questions, but you. really. honor answering questions. And that's a.

it when people don't, by the way. Yeah. Oh, you want to talk about one of my pet. peeves. Thank you. Thank you. Trevor, that is so special. Everyone has been listening or watching. wherever you are in the world. Uh I I. hope you appreciated that conversation. as much as I did. I hope you could see. that we're genuinely just having a good. time and getting to know each other and. and learning and going back and forth, but I think there were so many great. insights in this conversation and I'd. love to see what you took away. So, please do share them wherever you're. sharing, whether it's Instagram or. TikTok or Twitter or wherever it is. I'd. love to hear what you learned, what you.

took away, what you. gathered from this conversation, what. you collected, what you questioned, right? I think that's the biggest thing. What did you What is a question that. you're asking that you never asked. before today? Uh and uh want to give a big thank you. to Trevor for showing up and thank you. giving all this time I I I I will admit. though I I didn't do this just out of. the goodness of my heart. I came because I remember seeing a a. clip of yours many many many many years. ago and you talked about how we don't. know how to breathe.

I remember that. I remember even. watching it I was like. sitting at home. It's like I don't know how to breathe. And since then it it's it's stuck with. me. I was like one day I'm going to meet. this guy and I'm going to ask him to. teach me how to breathe. Oh, we'll have to do that. No, no. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you Jay. Thank you for. this man. No, thank you honestly. No, thank you man. Thank you. You're the. best. This was awesome. If you want even. more videos just like this one, make. sure you subscribe and click on the. boxes over here. I'm also excited to let. you know that you can now get my book.

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