TOM HANKS Reveals The 'Countenance Theory' That CHANGED His Acting Career

Sometimes life passes in the wink of an. eye and it's like, "Wow, are we here. already?" But there's other times in. that same wink of an eye you comprehend. it all. One of the greatest and most iconic. actors of all time. He has starred in. dozens of movies over his 40-year. career. You know him, you love him. Tom Hanks. If you're just looking at the past and. saying, "Man, that was when it was. great. I wish we could go back." No, you. never want to go back. You always have. to understand that our best days are. still ahead of us. Well, as you keep.

saying, more will be revealed as well. This too shall pass and more shall be. revealed. The number one health and wellness. podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The. one, the only Jay Shetty. Tom Hanks, welcome to On Purpose. It's. truly an honor and a gift to be in your. presence, to have you here. And even the. first few moments that we've just. exchanged a few thoughts, ideas, and. stories, I'm already enjoying your. company so much and I'm so grateful that.

you took the time to do this. I can't. likewise. I. watched here, which is out on November. 1st. I have so much that I want to talk. about it through and through your lens. When I was watching it, to me the theme. of home. obviously is so strong and apparent. And. I wanted to ask you, where do you feel. most at home? Apart from home? Okay, all right, man. All right, let's. throw deep right off the bat. Because I. was so many things lined up with me at.

my age. I was the third of four. Uh my parents were very preoccupied with. all certain, you know, like the. positives and miseries of their lives. I'd like to joke that they pioneered the. marriage dissolution laws for the state. of California, you know, back They got. divorces when only like Zsa Zsa Gabor, you know, or you know, Nicky Hilton got. divorces. My home environment was fluid. in that we moved a lot and we were. suddenly living with a whole different.

set of people cuz people you know my. parents got remarried and whatnot. So. that by the time I was seven, I had. lived in eight different homes. By the. time I was 10, I had lived in 10. different homes. And it's always been like that. So um I. am not intimidated by it and I don't. think I'm damaged by it. at all. As a matter of fact, my brother. uh who I did not live with, he lived in. the same town and in one of three houses.

all his life. And. I consider myself the lucky one. You know, just just by the nature of so. much stuff that uh that I've seen and so. much stuff that I've um been able to. experience and be comfortable with. Now. uh look, I you know, I I'm 68. So I went. through I I witnessed everything. You. know, whatever drug thing that you want. to go. I I wasn't a participant in awful. lot of that because I was so um I was.

kind of like entertained by the new. rules of whatever we were and here's a. new school and here's a new apartment. complex and now we're living in a. bonafide neighborhood and I was not. intimidated by all of that stuff and I. was also comfortable. perhaps in a way that's not healthy in. some ways of being a new guy in a new. circumstance, sizing up a room sizing up. the school figuring out all right, what's what's the easiest way to get. comfortable here? Part of it is being.

open, you know, kind of like taking. over, cracking a few jokes, not not. getting in trouble. And that's different from I would say. like my older brother who was very shy. and we were connected at the hip through. through all of this stuff and it was not. great. for the other members of my family, but. there was just something about that the. roll of the dice, number three of four, right there when the parents are too. busy with all this other kind of stuff. and and uh.

my my siblings were not much older than. I was, but older than I would they were. social beings long before I was. I. didn't become a social being until I was. a like 7 years old or what not. And by. that time I had lived in very many. places. So you're long-winded. conversation. I love it. Where Where are Where Where do I feel it. Where do I feel at home? most. I'm going to say now at the age of. 68 with some collection of my immediate. family. Wherever we are, provided we are and I.

don't mean to be good at laughing. You. know, provided we are laughing at. perhaps the absurdity of it or dealing. with the cruelty of it or sometimes just. the surrealistic aspect of Can somebody. tell me how we ended up here exactly? Can someone Can someone do that right. now? So I uh uh now that's not necessarily a. strength because along with that came. dude, I travel light. And I can travel light emotionally. Like.

I'm done. There's stuff that I cannot. control. I have left many uh uh. wonderful atmosphere or a loving. atmosphere or a friendly atmosphere. and uh like Ernie Banks, the you know, the ball player for the Chicago Cubs. without ever looking back without. thinking oh, things were really. wonderful back then. I wish I was back. there. Jay, I don't think I've ever. thought that. Wow. Now, is that great? Is it facile? Or is it um so mercurial.

that maybe you. maybe you shouldn't trust me. Is it Is it Does it feel like It feels. like and sounds like a healthy. detachment. There is a type Okay, let's. talk about that because there is a. version of detachment that means that. you can navigate. say like can I say uh you know. so you can navigate and you. know I I think my experience is about. 90% of the people.

that you come across are pretty decent. folks. 5% are and I'll say 5%. are sociopaths you know. And you cannot. avoid that other 10% those two 5% and. and my the ability to to detach from. those circumstance without a doubt a. good thing. But. the habit then I think of uh choosing. isolation from the other 90% cuz what.

can I rely on at the end of the day? I. can only rely on what I can fit in. either my emotional suitcase an actual. suitcase or the back of my car. Uh and that and that lingers for a very. long time. So I I think the healthy. aspect of it has been a great aid to me. as well as the the the tendency to want. to be isolated to not need anybody. Put. it that way. To not want anybody because. that's just what I learned. Life is. easier if you don't need.

anybody and it's can be a lot easier if. you want nothing more than what's in the. back of the car. But that can be a. solitary life and a lot of times being. solitary can be confused with being. lonely. And it. lonely can being lonely can lead to. anger and resentments and stuff that you. got to work through and okay at the 68. you know a lot of those years have been. dealt with dealing with the latter and.

enjoying the former at the same time. Well I I think what you rightly said is. that there's this binary feeling of if. you're detached you're lonely or. disconnected or you might be at the. other end codependent and attached and. not have the ability to operate in a. solitary state. So, how have you. danced almost so beautifully between the. two of being able to confidently say. you've been detached in the right ways. and and then at the same time you have. this beautiful relationship with your.

wife, you have long-term friendships. with people in the industry, Ron Howard, Steven Spielberg. You have You have. People I worked with, yeah. you worked with. So, how how does that. dance work? Because I do think that the. magic is in the dance, not in the. choice. I'm going to say that I got. very, very, very lucky. uh being in the right place at the right. time and recognizing something that. was just. for me. All right, let you go back to let's just. go back to school, you know.

The people say show business is like. high school with money. Uh high school is like show business. without money, you know. Truly it was. Um and when I was when I. went Look, I just went to school and my. joke was we moved around so much that. whenever, you know, at the end of the. school year I my dad would stand me out. on the driveway and say, "Son, I your. school is somewhere in that direction. Just walk that way and when you see kids. your own age, just follow them and they. will lead you to whatever school you are.

supposed to go to.". The school was a social kind of like. place for me and every now and again. there might be a moment that landed in. my intellectual pursuit, if that makes. sense. I didn't can't say I really loved going. to school, but I certainly loved the. hang of going to school. That's a. different thing. Subject matters, that. was all there. History was great. sometimes, some reading was great, but I. was no artist, I was no, you know, I was. no mathematician, you know, I I kind of.

liked geography because you could. visualize a map and know where like Sri. Lanka was or, you know, the difference. between Cambodia and Thailand. Uh but when I was in high school and had. no idea what I was supposed to do with. my time. other than, you know, maybe go to Young. Life, you know, hang out, you know, hang. out with, you know, some sort of psych, uh. theological, you know, brothers. But, uh other than that. sign up for class,

maybe do your homework on the bus on the. way to school, and what? Run track? I. don't know. What what are you supposed. to do? But, uh the uh. there was a theater teacher. There was a. theater department at this high school. And actually, a. this guy I'd known since uh 6th grade. was playing Dracula in the in the in the. high school play. And I said, "What? Really?" And so, you. know, we went. We went up to school at. night to see him. And I'd never been in. my high school at night. Looks different.

at night, right? And then I sat there, and there was, you know, a. bunch of people in the auditorium, and. then they came out and did this this. play. And I thought, "This is school? You can do this at school? School isn't. this thing just to survive? This isn't. this thing just to fill up your time? To. leave as soon as you can and get there. at the late I don't know. I never cut. class. I didn't didn't do that because. in some ways the hang of school was too. much fun. But when I saw that there was this kind.

of discipline that um. I had already been thinking of in my. head that just changed everything. That. just When you suddenly have a reason to. go and do something, and the reason is. in a pursuit of something that you. cannot find anywhere else, right? That. my I got to say my junior and senior. years of high school, I have been living. that same exact life and excitement ever. since. I'm I'm not kidding. The idea of.

auditioning for um the first like. our great instructor our our teacher. He. wanted to do real plays because he loved. to do the scenic design for it. So we're. we did. Night of the Iguana by Tennessee. Williams. How about that? 16 year old 17 year old kids playing. Night of the Iguana. Then we did. Shakespeare and we did. they did. musicals as well. Those those were. always popular. But suddenly having this tantalizing.

thing that's like if you have an. imagination. and if you're not afraid of getting up. in front of people which I was not. Some people can't get up and. it was a bunt for me. I I did I did it. without even thinking. That that gave that gave a purpose. and a pursuit that was much much bigger. than anything else that had been been in. my life. Now I have a friend of mine. from the same era. James is his name. I met him in fifth grade and he said to.

me he was going to be a draftsman. He. was going to he was going to be an. engineer. He was going to design. buildings and he did. That's what he's. been doing all this life. I knew I knew. people that at the same age that said, "Well, I really love to cook." and they. have written cookbooks and they've run. their own catering companies. That is what that's the same sort of. thing that I that I landed upon without. really knowing it. Because my parents. were divorced. I spent a lot of time traveling to and.

from my you know where my mom lived in. the small town or where my dad lived in. in Oakland in the Bay Area. And those hours on a Greyhound bus. starting when I was seven seven or eight. years old five hours of just daydreaming. five hours of looking out the window. five hours of looking at people passing. cars. air trains going by farms and whatnot. buildings and then. the natural preponderance I had to sit. there quietly and imagine what was going.

on. That was that fueled me into. realizing that there's this thing that. there's actually a discipline and a. trade and an art and a and a what's the. word I'm looking for? And I'll just say. it again, a pursuit that is let's put on. a show, let's tell a story. That came. along and bang, that that was it and I'm. telling you it's the same exact now as. it as it was then. Did you write on. those journeys or was it mainly I wanted. to write. specifically, but I did not literally I.

did not have the I did not have the. scholastic example. I did not learn the. tools because I just wanted to fake it. You know, at at the last moment. Yeah. Now, I started writing about about. 20 years ago. by just incorporating the work that an. actor does that is not told to anybody. that is not spoken. That actually was a form of writing. that came came about and I was sort of.

like instructed on on how that come how. that comes along. But without putting it. down on paper, I had malleable cohesive. narratives in my head for all of this. stuff. And I just thought, well, isn't that. what everybody does? That's that's the. way you do this, right? Cuz it's not. just showing up on time and you know, learning your words and and doing what. you're told. It There is something. beyond that and. the beyond that was always 15 times.

greater than the actual physical showing. up. I can't I can't discount enough the. power of the hang. You want to hear a. story? Here's Here's a short Okay, here's a short story. Please, please, please. Darlene Love. You know who. Darlene Love is? Legendary singer, she. you know, singer. a fantastic fantastic um Motown artist. among other things. We were I was on the Christmas show of. uh the old David Letterman show. And.

every year he brought her along to sing. "It's Christmas", this fabulous. rendition with a big orchestra and male. choruses. I saw her there and I said, "Oh oh my I'd seen her on the David. Letterman show for like 6 or 7 years.". And I said, I met her and I said, "I Ms. Love, I I cannot believe that I am on. the show with you. You are uh you you. have been belting out, you know, so so. many moments of the soundtrack of my. life that I've I'm just I'm just. thrilled that you're here and I'm here. glad that you're still doing it." And.

she looked at me and said, "Tom, I'm. just here for the hang.". And I got I completely I completely got. that because the hang, the interaction. with everybody. Dealing. with the attractiveness of those 90%. avoiding or learning how to negotiate. around those other 5%, you know, the. jerks and the uh and the evil people. Ain't that just living, you know? Ain't. that ain't that better than being alone. in a room when you don't have a thought. in your head. You got to stick to the. plan. You got to lay your head down. You.

got to fight for it. You got to compete. Yeah, okay, there's times when, you. know, you got to do that other kind of. stuff and other times you just kind of. like got to roll over and say, "I I. surrender." Just because something has. happened doesn't mean it's going to. Just because you're in a place doesn't. mean that's where you should be. My life. used to be nothing but chopping wood and. carrying water. And now that I have. received some enlightenment, I find that. all that is necessary for me to live is.

to chop wood and carry water. Yes. And I said, "Okay. All right, man. I was wondering, you talked about luck a. lot there. Can we all become a bit more lucky?" The. fellow who ran the Great Lakes. Shakespeare Festival, Vincent Dowling, I. I worked for him for 3 years and he's. he's the the a number of people that. loved that man and worked with that man. He he touched a great many people's. lives. He said, um, it's the most unfair business in the. world. That's one aspect of it. Because. so much of it requires being in the.

right place. at the right time. by choice. and by sacrifice, you know, and that's. not easy to do. I feel that I was fortunate that from as. we talked about from that up bringing I. had no I had no qualms. about hey, let's go. I got enough money. for gas. Let's the. I drove across the country with four. other people one one one time and then. the next year I drove across the country. by myself. Did not bat an eye. No. And.

there are people that listen, they just. can't do that, you know? There is a. degree of security and fear and. intimidation that that can go along with. what? Putting yourself in the right. place. at the right time. And along with that will come all it's a. look, it's a 50/50 you can Okay, it's a. 50/50. Have you ever heard this great thing? I'm no mathematician, but when I heard. this I thought that's actually a. principle for living. Jay, if I had a quarter.

and I flipped it and it came up heads. five times in a row. What are the odds that it's going to. come up heads a seventh time a sixth. time sixth time in a row? Is it still. 50/50? It's absolute 50/50. Just because. something has happened doesn't mean it's. going to. Just because you're in a place. doesn't mean that's where you should be. So along with luck shouldn't the. shouldn't the other requirement be. faith.

or some degree of disconnected to it to. whatever the end result is going to be? You're going to have to be I was I I was. talking to a friend of mine and he said. he read somebody. I don't who it was, but someone someone wrote down. uh. you have to be all right with what's. going to happen. And I just went. Well. Okay. Yeah, thanks for that. Yeah, all right. Let's let's try to do that. So, you have. to be all right with what's going to. happen, right or wrong, disaster,

disease, you know, whatever. You have to. be You have to be all right with. what is going to happen. with some degree of faith and luck that. what happens after that. is the best thing it could possibly be. What what's helped you get closer to. that? That sounds hard. It is. Sounds. impossible almost. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going. to say that age, in all honesty, experience, you know, that thing of.

what has it not destroyed me only makes. me stronger. And look, let's not. discount the power of getting your ass. kicked. You know, and I'm not just you. know, suddenly not professionally as. well. All sorts of, you know, all sorts. of personal things go along that give. you a bloody nose. and bust your teeth and you have to go. through those metaphysically, perhaps. physically. I made this movie where I. wrote a I wrote a a scooter, a Vespa. And so, because of that, I rode a Vespa. for about 2 years until I realized that.

I had been so close to killing myself on. this thing, making a stupid thing, that. I'm going to give up this Vespa. This. was a smart This was a smart thing to do. that only came about because I learned, you know, that, you know, sometimes a. hair's breadth between, you know, cracking up or falling down or needing. that crash helmet or not. So, it is. a degree of that. the that experience and also being, I.

think, open to some of the most. basic, I don't want to say philosophical. truths, but. I have been to the Holy Land. I have. seen the sites that are. um. precious, uh divine. I was I was actually working. this a long time ago. This was before. the great many of the great problems. that were going there and I was driving. back.

being driven to Jerusalem. I was with a. guide and I said, "Hey, so uh so uh. Moshe, tell me. tell me tell me about where we are." And. he says, "Okay, I will tell you. This is. We are bound by a kibbutz. This is a. very old kibbutz. You know kibbutz? Yes. This is a very old one. It's been there. a very very long time. Very popular and. now we are coming up by the moshav. You. know what moshav is? Moshav is not like. a kibbutz. It's different more. more socialist less comfortable, but.

this is also much like that and people. live there and they work and they farm. And this is where David killed Goliath. and coming up here we're going I said, "Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. whoa whoa whoa. Back the car up. Just a little back this. up. Did you just say this is where David. killed Goliath? Yes. He says. There's a. little sign there. It said in English. and Hebrew and Arabic. He says, "Well, tell me about that.". Okay, well, okay, there you see the.

valley? Yes, okay. And on one side was. the the Philistines Philistine. Philistine They were they were there, okay. And David and the Israelites were. were here. And they sent down to the. middle there the the the the giant the. giant the giant Yes, yes, the Goliath, yes. And David goes and says, "I will fight. this man." And. he puts the stones and. he kills the man and And I said, "This.

is the place. He said, "Yeah.". So am not going to argue with that. Absolutely not going to argue with that. So moved along. and I you know you visit great. cathedrals and what not have been all. over place around around the world and. some of the great places. And we were in. we were in Japan the family and I we had. this fabulous guy that was driving us. around and he took us to some Buddhist. places some Shinto shrines. And there was a big tree at one of them.

Uh at one of the one of the temples the. shrines and people would write down. prayers on these on wooden wooden. signs and they would hang them up like. ornaments. So this this tree is just. covered with a million prayers. Beautiful kind of like sensibility. And. he wrote down something and he hung it. up and I said you know oh what did. you write? He says oh I I wrote here. I'll show you and it was in Japanese you. know the language and he says this this. this means I will never know all I need.

to know. That's all we talked about you know at. dinner later on. Did you did you know. what he said? So the the the ongoing. education we're never going to know what. we need to know. More is always going to. be revealed and. this too shall pass. That governs absolutely everything. If. you are having the greatest time in your. this too shall pass. If you are. successful being this too shall pass. If.

you are sick if you are experiencing. great tragedy and great drama great. difficulty this too shall pass. Now I. don't know if I'm still answering the. question you asked. This was educated to me over the course. of my 20s and 30s and 40s or 50s at a. time when you think that no what you. have to do is have a master plan. You. got to stick to the plan. You got to lay. your head down. You got to fight for it. You got to compete. Yeah okay, there's. times when, you know, you got to do that. other kind of stuff. And other times you.

just kind of like got to roll over and. say, I surrender, you know? Just I will. never know all I need to know and I'll. never be able to do all that I should. do. Yeah. make sense? It does make sense. It does make sense. And I And I appreciate you saying that. it comes with wisdom and age and. experience because I used to have a. mentor. who sadly passed away during the. pandemic, but he would always repeat He. would always repeat to me, there's no. substitute for maturity. And And it was.

No Yeah, no shortcut to it. Yeah. that maturity was just something that. And yeah, didn't you know somebody when. you were young. who was the same age as you Yeah. Absolutely. Oh, I I came across all sorts of people. like that. Yeah, and I just said, What. First of all, what makes you so special? And what makes you so smart? What makes. you so calm, you know? Uh. What was it? Did you ever figure it out? the vaguest idea. You know, some. combination I I would probably say of. connection, you know, a connection to a.

family, uh connection to, you know, uh. perhaps a heritage that goes along with. that. That, you know, uh um uh some. friend of mine, we were we went to their. their uh son's bar mitzvah. And um I'm not Jewish, but I said, uh. You got bar mitzvah? Oh, yeah, of course. I got bar mitzvah. And he said And he. said, Let me tell you something about. the bar mitzvah. This is what's great. about it because my 13-year-old son. would He's getting bar mitzvah, and I. told him, I said, After this, my son, your sins are your own.

He's 13. But this is you know, and. there's studies of, you know, there's. examples of that all through all sorts. of cultures uh and all sorts of. histories. Yeah. that said, There is a time when. you will and you alone are responsible. for everything that that goes on goes on. in your life. Yeah. Um. uh I I have a. I have a friend who. is studying. with a a Buddhist monk, you know, a guy. who's name he's literally got his name.

venerable in his first name. How about. that? When I was talking to the. venerable, you know, whatever to. and I said, "Look, I know squat about. Buddhism outside of, you know, what I. you know, see on TV shows. So, what's the deal?" And he said, "Well, one of the smartest things I heard. uh from a guy who practices Buddhism is. um my life used to be nothing but. chopping wood and carrying water. And now that I have received some.

enlightenment, I find that all that is. necessary for me to live is to chop wood. and carry water.". Yes. And I said, "Okay. All right, man. That's some high country. And I don't. know if you hear that well I don't know. if I if I had heard that at the age of. 22, I would have had the slightest and. idea of of what it but at the age of 68. Yeah. uh I you know, I think I can get a. little bit closer to that uh Definitely. Yeah. I think there's two things you both. remind for me. I think one of them's.

been. when I've noticed some of the wiser. people that I've met along the way or at. a younger age as you were mentioning, it's always been people who are exposed. to more generations. And so people who were in their 20s but. new people who were 70 and spent quality. time with them or people who were in. their 50s and spent time with someone. who was 18 or 21. kind of juxtaposition of being. surrounded by people that weren't just. all your age in the same space, there. was a sense of you being able to learn.

and grow and and take and receive. I was. spending time with a couple that my wife. and I have become very close friends. with and they're both 70 and. my wife and I are in our in our mid 30s. and we were we spent a weekend with them. and it was brilliant because I got. destroyed at pickleball. by the. 70 year old a humbling experience is. always a good 4. hours a day and I can barely play for a. couple and so big inspiration but but. just the life experience and the. engagement you get from that and I think.

so much of our. going back to what we were saying about. community and even your mention of of. church there or the Holy Land, I was researching something recently. I'm writing my third book and something. that I came across and I've been playing. around with is this idea called the. third space theory. And what the third. space theory lays out is that back in. the day we would have home, we would have work and we would have. church. And church was a place you could. look back on work and home and reconcile.

and reflect and think about how. You can ponder why bad things happen to. good people and vice versa, yeah. It was. a place spent literally meant for that. This is why you come here. Exactly. And now what's happened is let. alone three spaces, we don't even we. just have one. So we work from home, we. live at home and then our third space or. the closest thing to it is a television, probably. There is there isn't a. separate space. And so it's arguing the. fact that there isn't that space almost. to have those thoughts, conversations,

ideas, insights that may arise. The. generational thing I think is wickedly. important. Whether or not, you know, like they they don't, you know, sometimes it's just the old person. that's sitting in the corner, you know. But other times it's like, you know, a. big There's some aspect of the big. family that is not for everybody, you. know, cuz God knows not everybody wants. to come to Thanksgiving sometimes cuz. they don't want to have that same fight. again. I had a I had a friend who um he had his. his grandmother was like.

in already had a nine, like she was 93. or something like that. And she was. always just there, you know, just there. And at one point he was uh. he was arguing with his parents about. not wanting to do so. I can't remember. what it was. Didn't matter. But. everybody was saying, "Why are you doing. that? Why do you What's that about? How. can you do How can you do that that that. that that blah blah blah?" And my friend. said, "Why are you Hey, man, because. life's too short." And this 90-year-old. grandmother is just sitting there and.

she said, "No, life's not short. Life is long.". Which I interpreted as being life is. long. So, if you're doing something. stupid, you know, you're spending a lot. of time relishing, you know, living. inside inside that that stupidity. Yes. And uh. my my my kids are my uh my old my. youngest kids. um essentially were raised along by us.

as well as uh. couple of people that have, you know, been uh. employee-like families for uh members of. family, but also their their. grandparents, their yiayia and pappou, as they say in Greek. People who were. never not engaged with them when they. were. babysitting. We never had to have. babysitters. We never had to have a. nanny. We didn't have anything like. that. What we had instead was two. generations removed of people speaking. Greek to them, asking them questions, "What are you doing?" from the moment. they are toddlers until they're 14 years.

old. What they got from that is so. different from. from what I got from mine. The There is. a joke in my family about how bad I am. with tools. Okay. as soon as I pick up a screwdriver or a. hammer, I start getting cold sweats. because my dad had no patience with me. about He never said, "Let me show you. how to use a Let me show you how to. scrape that off." It It was always, "Oh, come on, you knothead. Don't you know. how to sand a board? Don't you know the.

difference between a standard ratchet. socket wrench and a and a metric And And. did because nobody said, "Let me show. you how you do this." You got to learn. it. So, that you're talking about. something there that is. it's almost. it's like water on a stone, you know, it. just has an effect over time and. you know, for in many cultures you have. to look at that and say, "The more the. more generations around that table with.

regularity, you know, not just for you. know, three holiday days. holidays a year. Um the the richer the lesson is going to. be, you know, the. because you're going to pick up some. stuff just by like an like an old story. from you know, from the old country. My. my father-in-law dad. he was he was Greek but grew up in. Bulgaria and had escaped the communist. and whatnot which is a fascinating story. unto itself.

But. but what. when he told the story about being told. by his dad to take the donkey. up to this you know, up to the mountains. and get something and bring it back. knowing that there was the meanest dog. on the planet Earth up there that was. going to. try to try to bite him. He came back. oh, I think of what it was is he he. said, "Take the donkey up there." And he. didn't want to wrestle with the donkey. He just wanted to go up there and get it. back really fast. And on the way there.

this dog, you know, nearly mauled him. scared the living daylights out of him. So, when he came back down his dad said, "I told you to take the donkey.". Cuz the donkey would scare off the dog, you know, like that. So, you know, you. don't that's the kind of stuff you going. to pick up over time. But did you did. you have. multiple multiple generations in the. home as you were growing up? I I felt. that for me my my monk teachers became. that for me cuz they were older and so I.

had I had a monk teacher who was in his. probably 60s when I met him. I had. another who was in his 30s when I first. met him and so they became that. I. wasn't so close to my grandparents and. so I didn't really have that same. interaction as you were mentioning your. children did. I didn't really have that. with them. So I had my parents, I had my. uncles and aunts but then I think it was. really later on when I met those two. generations in the monastery that that. really expanded my. breath of you know human experience that. I. nice if it worked across the board but.

sometimes you know grandpas are drunk. and you know and and grandma does. nothing but smoke cigarettes and you. know and watch Wheel of Fortune. So. maybe it's not always great. No maybe it's not always great but it. can be sometimes. It can be. It can be. I don't think there's a better example. of a true sense of family and home and. connection in moments that are not. Thanksgiving or Christmas morning or a. wedding or a good. They are when you're. just sitting around on a Thursday night, you know. We don't have to live in chaos. if we choose not to.

And if we're only looking at the past in. order for some degree of oh it was so. much easier back then. No it's it's. never been easier. Sometimes life passes. in the wink of an eye. and it's like wow are we here already? But there's other times in that same. wink of an eye you comprehend it all. You were talking about your experience. with your father and and you know with. the tools and it's a funny because my. dad was the opposite. He was he was. useless at DIY and so I'm useless at. DIY. And so I have that experience. My dad. was great. My dad could fix everything.

So there was a there was a. story I was talking to my older brother. once with that he and my dad. my dad was like why why in the world. would I spend a lot of money for crying. out loud we could get it we could get. electronics kit and make our own. amplifier. We don't have to go off and. pay all this much money. We could hook. it up to a turntable and a speaker there. we have stereo system. So they got a kit. and I saw them working on it together. and I was kind of jealous and. I'm I'm honestly 40 years later I said. to him so you know when that when you. made the amplifier with Dad, I was. really jealous because oh man, I wish I.

would have done anything to trade shape. places with you. My dad was so miserable. as we're doing it always are you not. head? Don't you know, don't you know how. to solder it that it's like oh. Well, you know, it's a perspective of. everything. Yeah, definitely. Did you try to did you. try to parent differently? Like did you. try to avoid. you try to but I made every mistake, you. know, you you scar the kids somehow in. in in the same exact way and as they get. older, you know, you come back around. and said, "Hey, can I talk about what a. knothead I was with you for all those.

years?" And said, "Yeah, sure, Dad.". Yeah, I've been kind of waiting for. this. Why don't why don't you why don't. you unload? So I know that but I would. say at the same time I think there was, you know, it does it come up to be 50/50. maybe? The the attitude and the you. know, the the life that we led the the. laughs, you know, that stuff's worth its weight in you. know, gem and crusted gold. So. What's something that they've taught. you? What's something that they've inspired. you to. they all are, you know, they are not the.

same type of human being ever. My youngest. at one point said something that was. definitely true for him and I thought is. in fact true for all of my kids which. makes makes me feel good and that was. he was younger. He was like seven or. eight. I said, "Oh, you know, at at one. point let's let's go down we were in New. York. So let's go down the park and. we'll take our gloves and we'll throw it. around. We'll bat the balls. We'll just.

find a place of grass." He said, "Okay, do that." And it got away from me. Didn't happen. This called that. something happened and I realized that. oh, the sun's going down now and I said, "Oh my God. Oh my God, hey, I'm sorry. I. said we were going to go down in the. and throw the ball around. It got away. from me. Forgive me." And he said, "No, it's. okay, Dad.". And he sounded disappointed. I said, "It's okay." I said, "Well, you know, I. I feel bad. I just I just I don't I. don't want you to be bored." And he. looked at me with a look on his face and. said, "Dad, I'm never bored.".

And that is uh that's curiosity. That. speaks to curiosity and drive and also. the comfort of where one is in order to. feel free, in order to explore whatever. world that is. And I can I think I could. say that maybe in varying degrees for. for all the kids. Their ability to. um. pursue their own interests. without being prodded, um without being.

forced to. Uh I I I I've learned from. that because look, there was. uh that isolation that I'm that I was. talking about. There was a time when I. was so. comfortable doing absolutely nothing or, you know, pursuing some brand of, you. know, disconnection. that wasn't good for me and uh I you. know, they everybody has it in some some. some degrees. But. you could be of a with all that you. have, with all you kids, with all your.

advantages, I do not want to hear that you're bored. And they have never they have never said. that they're bored. They've they've. always had some action thing that was. going on, whether I understood their. passion for it or not. Uh what attracted. to you that isolation and disconnection. at that moment in time? What was it that. was so appealing about I think I just. had to get used to it because I was. number three. There people ran out of. time, you know, they didn't have the. wherewithal, the interest. Because I was. so young when my parents split up and.

there were so many other factors that. had to go into. Man, there's logistics and legal thing. and time and distance and stuff like. that that I took care of myself and you. know, was was satisfied. I think it was. a reprieve for them. So, um I just got I. just got used to. occupying myself by being alone. Yeah. And that's really great. And it's can be. really detrimental. Yeah, I can relate. to so much of that as well. I felt I was. the oldest, just one of two.

And my parents uh you've used this word. previously in in other interviews of. having your parents had a fractured. relationship and so did mine. And so, there was definitely a sense of I had to. build independence, accountability, and. responsibility very early on because I. had to take care of things. And I also. look back at that as such a strength and. I'm so grateful for it in a kind of. weird way because I feel like it made me. grow up earlier. Not in a way that I.

felt I lost a childhood or I didn't have. amazing experiences, but I'm really. happy now when I look back that it gave. me strength and courage much earlier on. But as the older one, did they have some. ex- expectations of responsibility put. on you? Did Like where you going and you. have to be back by now? Were there rules. placed upon you? no rules for me. More expectations. educationally. And what was strange, which is so much. linked to what I do today, and I've I've. drawn that line fairly often for myself, is I was emotionally depended on by both.

of them. Okay. So, I became the therapist, mediator, the. wow. That's That's a burden. I'm sorry. early on. No wonder you went off for 3. years to sleep on the floor. Sleep on. the ground. Yeah, yeah. So, I I I'm grateful for it. now though because I think it gave me. the ability to listen closely, be. empathetic, understand both sides, care. for both of Like it gave me that ability. to recognize how it takes two to tango. and there's I think this I think this is. a viable study about where you are in. that pecking order. Everyone agreed.

about it because because I was last and. last by like 5 years, I had no rules. I. had no expe- They had They had spent so. much time trying to establish that with. the older, you know, my older siblings. They didn't want to bother with it. anymore. So, if I was gone for, you. know, like 2 weeks, I just didn't come. home for 2 weeks in high school, they. knew I was sleeping at somebody's house. and doing my homework and getting to. school on my own. They were thrilled. that they didn't have to, you know, they. didn't have to discipline me or punish. me. They didn't have even have to think.

about me. I just came and went by. myself, so. But, I was not the oldest, you know, I did not have somebody that. was establishing the rules and uh you. know, the the structure of the family. Yeah, that was Yeah, and that was. different for me, too. I had I had. expectations that you academically, which is normal in an Indian family, but. there weren't any rules for me, as well. So, if I was out and about and doing. whatever it was, it didn't matter. And. so, So, I'm going to Is the stereotype. of the Indian family Are they Are you.

all brilliant students? Do you all work. really hard and finish all your. homework? to. Yeah, you're You're forced to. You're forced to prioritize homework. Education is all that matters. Your. social skills, life, relationships don't. matter. I am It's all about how well you. perform. I'm glad I'm not an Indian and. there's no way I could have been. Oh, lord. Yeah, it's all about how well you. perform academically. Your whole life. revolves around that. Were your parents like high academic. achievers? Well, I think they did I I would say. they did very well for what they had. So, my dad became a chartered. accountant. He qualified in England, but.

he grew up He was raised in India. And. my mom never did any more than what. you'd study up until age 16. Okay. And then after that, also became an. entrepreneur and became a financial. advisor. So, they'd both struggled and. worked hard to. I love it. It was going It was going. right where I thought it was until you. said, "And then became an entrepreneur.". Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just Yeah, which I didn't realize. growing up that she was an entrepreneur, but. Well, that comes from somewhere of that. structure of. education and homework done. Exactly.

Even no matter the gender. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Definitely. But, I was. thinking about As we talk about your. life, I can't help but think about the. movie here that I'm so grateful I got to. watch a couple of days ago or a couple. of weeks no, a week ago now. And I. really just felt that it was a work of. art. That's kind of what I took away. from it. It was a work of art because. rarely has a film more recently had me. so fixated on. Mhm. First of all, the way it's produced.

and created is is beautiful and the way. it's a pretty deep throw. It's so deep and it's perfect for this. conversation that we're having and even. as you're reflecting on all of these. scenes in your life Yeah. to me, I can't help but project. Oh dear. Oh, but you you because because. it was the four of us, you know, Bob Bob. Zemeckis and Eric Roth and Robin and I. and everybody everybody else in it, you. know, Paul and every other actor did. We. the the scenes are very very specific of.

a moment in a family's life. Yes. And everybody was armed for bear. Everybody had a thing that had happened. to them that was like that, not. necessarily example, but the sensory. experience, the the emotional connection. to every single moment in this thing was. really quite resonant for us all. And I. had to when I people say, "What are you. working on?" Oh, I'm making a movie. called here. I say, "Not h e a r. It's h. e r e." They said, "Well, what's it.

about?". I said, "It is about how important. things are when they happen here.". You know? Yeah. Because you cannot control them and. they are if you. the film I mean the. all of the permutations with it goes, you know, we say, "Oh, the camera stands. still in space, but it moves in in time, you know?". Everybody every character in it is going. through that profound thing that happens.

in a specific moment in their life. And. it Where does it happen? It happens. right here. So, we were always talking. about presence, you know, some big. aspect of it. And also that we do not. know that we're living in a moment of. history. We don't know they know they don't know. that they they the the the first tribes, you know, the the Native Americans. They. don't know that they're Native. Americans. They're just living in in the. moment. They're not They don't know. they're living, you know, 600 years ago. Nor do the people that build the house.

that that that takes place at They don't. know that they're living in 1911. They're think they're They're just. living in the in the right now of it. Um. and that's a type of thing that really. is is so examinable examinable. in a very specific type of cinema that. that is the point of what the what the. whole movie is that, you know, that Bob. and Eric fleshed out long before uh uh. Robin and I came along. And along with that comes together the.

four of us. have a history that we can go back to. I. mean, uh. Robin's worked with Bob a couple of. times. I've worked with Bob number. times. Eric is a good friend of mine. We. We've worked on stuff all the time. And. every time we've done it, we've have a. pinpoint of the difference between here. at the moment that it happened and now. at this moment where we're talking about. establishing a whole new other place in. time. Mhm. Yeah, when I mean, when I was. watching it, I couldn't.

help but think of. every place that has been monumental in. my life. and then think about how many other. events must have taken place in that. room, in that space that I'm not even. aware of, and I might even take for. granted and not recognize the value of. both in my life and previously, and of. course, the future as well. Well, I had. to wrap my head around this thing that I. had never experienced. We lived here. I've never lived any place, you know, I.

I I you know, now now I now. now I've had I've lived I've had in the. same literally home as in. three-dimensional structure in time and. space. I've had that now for a, you. know, couple of decades here. But this. idea of someone putting so much. I don't want to say importance, but. having so much emotional centeredness. in literally this place in a room, by. these stairs, through this door, the TV.

used to be there and there it was there. Here's where mom and dad did this. Here's where I did that. I don't have. that. I I got it, you know, once we got. married and we, you know, finally I did. but I didn't get it until I was 35 years. old. And my kids have it. And sometimes I. have to ask them about their. perspectives. I moved around so much as. a kid. I looked forward to it. When we. moved out of the of the house that my. kids had been born in and lived in for.

the better part, you know, lived in for. like 14 years a piece. They were sort of. undone by it. And I didn't understand. it. I. I I literally in the back of my head, if. not verbally, said, "What's the big. deal?". You know, how's that per for for a. perspective? It is a huge deal if you're. actually there. And Richard, you know, Robin and I are our characters, you. know. I'm gro- I'm born in the house. I. grow up in the house. My kids are born. in the house. Our entire marriage and.

family is spent in that house. And is it. a solace? Or. is it a boundary that you're never able. to get get through of? That experiencing that and examining. that was Oh my lord. I can't tell you. how many how much conversation We This. whole movie was just one big ass. conversation about what it means. And. not so much about what the words are, how we move around. That's the technical. stuff that goes along. But every moment. that we were off by ourselves, it seemed.

to me we were trying to weigh this very. specific thing of what we have always. what we've all been through in our odd, you know, celebrated, goofy, stupid. individual lives. And what it meant to this the H E R E. aspect of of of this story that we were. trying to tell. And Bob particularly, I. mean Bob's and we all I think. incorporated our own approach to our art. form and and commercial life to it. Bob.

as a filmmaker. is not about to do a shot that anybody. could do, you know? And he's not about. to tell a story cinematically in ways. that have been done before. He's just. built that way. He went, "Well, hell, anybody can do that." You know, he says. stuff like that. And Eric as a as a screenwriter. he's constantly landing on this place. where only his words on paper. can translate this this thought process. And Robin and I, you know, uh Paul, everybody everybody in the.

thing is like "I know the lines. Turn me. loose. Let's go. Let's go. What are you. going to do? Are you going to try that? Let's try that. Where are you going to. go? Just take it." You know, this. ongoing game of improvisational. emotional football in which you're just. and I mean football is the international. sense. Yes. Premiership, the Champions League. It is a ball that is kind of it's a. matter of inches. It's a matter of a. curve. It's a matter of being in the. right place at the right time in order. to to receive what's given to you and. then pass on to somebody else. Yeah, it.

was uh. I know the film uses digital anti-aging. technology and you get to see yourself. uh. many years younger. What Was there any. special feeling of that? You played some. of that in the film. It was kind of great. I mean because. it's a great tool because it's been, you. know, people are aged and younged up in. movies, you know, since the since. Edison stole George Méliès' film process. back in the early 1900s. It was.

fascinating to watch because it ended up. being the tools were so much better that. it was a different completeness to it. Absolutely, yeah. Uh you know, we all. had, you know, you always had hair and. makeup. We we went through extensive. everything, you know, they did what they. At one point, I'm sitting there and. Jennifer, the. fabulous makeup artist, she's just. looking at me. She just grabbed both of. my ears. And then lifted them up and shoved them. to the into the top of my head. And I. said, "What are you doing?" She said,

"Oh, Tom, we're looking on you being 17. And as you age, your ears grow and lower. on your head. And so, I'm trying to see. if I'll be able to glue them up.". Oh, that's right. I said, "Have at it, girl." Uh so, the that all. of the tool aspect of it is standard. What was new is that we could see it in. real time. We didn't have to send it off. and wait for a long post-production.

thing because that was the deepfake. technology. that uses some form of AI just to make. it much, much faster. Yeah. and immediate. And listen, what. what it One of the things that it shows. is just how old I am. Uh because, you know, you got to have. posture and energy. Uh and if you're if. everything else about you looks like. you're 22 years old, you're going to. have to embody a 22-year-old. I'm going. to tell you right now, it's very hard to. leap off a couch and enthusiasm.

uh as a as a as a 67-year-old guy at the. time that we did it. even think of that. Now that you mention. it, yeah. what? Had a a of tea, had a lot of. protein bars, you know, got a lot of. rest, got a lot of stretching, you know, in order to in order to make that. happen. Yeah, you mentioned presence. there and that was a theme that. definitely struck me. What do you find. helps you be the most present today as. you're living? There were times that you. I think you have to be oblivious. You. have to sort of like enforce it. You.

have to. not think of things. It's crazy, but one of the most basic. things I think that I learned. probably in junior college when I. actually first Chabot Community College. when this truly did begin to study this. kind of stuff is that the words, what you are saying, has to be so. familiar to you that you don't think. about it. And that is a degree of being. oblivious to the specifics of what.

you're doing. Because if you're trying. to get through it, that means. self-consciousness. That means you are. not you are not getting out of yourself. and self-consciousness is the death of. performance. Ask any actor this thing is that if if. you have a scene. where you have to go to a deep emotional. place and the only way to do it is to go. there. Chances are. you have had the most wonderful day of. your life prior to that. Or the it is so much fun to come to work.

that day. All right, so that's one thing. that you have to do. And the other side. of it is if you have to be charming and. convivial and funny on paper on stage a. day, chances are you're going through. some personal hell, you know, off you. know, off camera that you just have to. be oblivious to somehow. And along with. that there's I I can't discount enough. the joy of the hang. I think. what I do for a living do joy does does. it promotes it. The and joy not.

necessarily being we're all having a. great time, we're all you know, singing. campfire songs, but the joy of. allying yourself with great. collaborators and trusting that they are. going to get better stuff out of you. that you could possibly bring yourself, and being open to just knowing it so. well. Everybody says, "Well, what do you. mean by What do you mean What do you. mean by learning the lines?" I mean, learning the lines like you know the. the the lyrics to the best song you ever. heard in your life. Yesterday,

all my troubles seemed so far away. Now, I need a place that's here to stay. Oh, I believe in you. You got to be able to. rattle it off that fast, that easily. It's got to be so much a part of you. that you don't have to think about it at. all. If I actually sang the right word. words to yesterday. Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And. I feel there's this. It's amazing to see your enthusiasm, excitement, joy, you know, continuing your career. when you're even what you just said now. of working with people who can get even. more out of me. And that belief that.

there's more in you always. You've. talked about imposter syndrome in the. past. Yeah. Which obviously, I'm sure. everyone when they look at you find it. hard to believe. But, I I recognize when. you've shared or I've heard you talk. about it before. It's very real. It's. It's very genuine, this feeling of like, "Oh, well, you know, walk us through that how you've been. able to constantly believe there's more. in you to give, more to do, more to. find? Somebody wanted me to do a movie. All right. And it was great. And I.

should have done it. It was going to be. a for a lot of money. You would pay in. the. go somewhere cool. You get a good per. diem, you know, all that kind of stuff. There was no reason not to do the movie. Except, there was something. that I just said, "This is not. the match for me." Because, number one, I don't have any curiosity about the. subject. Now, that's not the only reason to do it.

But, in order to translate. the theme of the movie through a. performance, there has to be some sort. of challenge and curiosity to it. And I. had none. That was one thing. But, the other part of it, too, I was. searching I was I was having a. one-on-one uh talk with the uh director. And I was just I said, "Look, I said I. don't I don't have the. I don't have the um. I don't have the countenance.". And the director said, "Countenance? The hell does that mean?" I said, "There.

is a thing that we all carry with us. We. have a countenance that comes from. everything we've said. All the work that we've done. All the. All the times that we've either. succeeded or failed, cuz they both go. together. You You. Failure teaches you a lot more than. success does. I'm talking about. commercial success. But, that idea that. you walk away from a job and you think. that we went to a new place in order to. in order to examine this theme that only. we could have done unless we all got.

together and challenged each other and. made it happen. And without that type of stretching of. one's countenance that you come into. uh that's That to me is the That's That. to me is the the big megillah. I still find myself uh completely at the. mercy of that instinctive moment of. sudden Oh my god! That's what I That's what I think, you. know? And the next thing you know, you. want to do it and you're talking talking. about it continuously. And there's.

nothing that anybody says that. detracts from that initial Yes. uh. initial experience. Uh because, you know, other other You know, that There's. There's plenty of other things that you. can do um. uh because they're fun. I mean, I When. my my uh my beginnings uh the first time. I was a professional actor, we were in. repertory theater uh at uh with my. Vincent Dowling at a place called the. Great Lakes Shakespeare Festival in.

Cleveland, Ohio. And because we were in. rep, we did everything. We did We did. Hamlet and King John and Othello at the. same time we were doing fabulous. rip-roaring comedies that everybody. everybody dug. The countenance then ex-. is exchanged bet- between them between. the two. And that's something that I I It's not a. burden at all, but it is a. uh it it is a prism through which a. decision has to be made.

Going back again to this idea of this, I. believe that Mike my countenance Look it. up. Staff, look up countenance for me. My countenance is not going to aid the. examination of this theme. And movies. work when the theme is worthy of being. examined by that movie. And so in that. case, you just have to say uh. no. There's. You need somebody that's going to come.

in there like a you know like like a. like a mad dog and and devour that bone. and I I just my countenance doesn't. match up to that. Yeah, it sounds like you've never. compromised that. Oh, I've compromised. plenty of times. But you know, making. mistakes, you know, there was a period. of time Look I Look at my IMDb. It might. be up in triple digits by now. You know, and it was a time where I just said they. are asking me to be in a movie. You. don't say no to that. And you That's. young. That's the stuff that you do in. your 20s and in your 30s. And then. sometime in there you start thinking.

about No, no, no, no, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. The. greatest decision By the way, I don't. think I've ever said no yet except by. schedule. But now it turns out to be. that's where you start shaping um. what? Your your art and the body of. work. You have to start The power is. saying no. And that's really That was. really hard to do when, you know, everybody thinks you're great, you show. up and everybody wants you to do it, and. everybody says fabulous things. But I. I've compr- I I didn't know I was.

compromising cuz I didn't know any. better, but there's a moment, I guess, when you say like, ah, you know, I don't I don't want to I. don't want to I think I'd be. compromising somewhere here. And so, the. the first time I said no to something, um it was a very it was it was. on one hand liberating and of course I. might have thought I made the biggest. mistake of my life. Uh you know, I if. you take any great take any great. magnifi- take let's just pull from the. take Faye Dunaway and Laurence Olivier.

They have very specific countenances. There is a thing that you will say, "Oh. my god, the countenance of Laurence. Olivier. really really Ossie Davis." Well, you. know, any great that wow, that. countenance matches. Yes. And that's I. guess that's what I'm that's what I'm. talking about. There was a there was. like a you know, some sort of cosmic. weight that they carry along with them. that makes sense for what they're doing. Yeah, for sure. There's a. listening to you speak about I mean,

it's so relieving to hear that you've. compromised sometimes like because. No. it it's a relief I think I've Come. by my house for a night of compromise, you know? How about that? You want to do. that? We'll bring the we'll. We'll bring the DVDs and say, "This is. the DVD of compromise.". I'm in. That'd be amazing. No, I think. because I think we're so good we we. forget that you're used to celebrating. and counting someone's wins and hits. when they've had so many and you look. over the compromises or whatever it may. have been. And so, it's a relief hearing.

that because your values of how you pick. a project, of how you work on a project. seem so so strong and defined now, and. that's obviously come with time. As as. you were making here, was there a particular scene that. reminded you of a time in your life that. you want to revisit, relive, rethink. Eugene O'Neill. wrote Ah, Wilderness. He wrote that play. as the life he would have he wanted to. have. He wished he had had. The family.

that he had wished he had. And I always read that uh Eugene O'Neill. is a big reason why I became an actor. cuz I saw a great productions of his. stuff uh back in 1975, 76. And when I finally saw Ah, Wilderness, I. was knocked out because it was as. delightful a play as it was. And I'd. always heard that he wrote that as you. know, the family that he wished he had. I thought about that when we when I was. doing here because there are moments.

for example, when we're just sitting. watching TV. and you know, Robin is there, the kids. are little and we're just there and we. ended up talking about what would be on. the TV, you know. And I went right back. to you know, I don't know it was a Dean. Martin show or you know, an episode or. something. Even down to some of the. commercials that we wanted to. And. um those moments were transporting for. me. but not in a home the way we were.

picturing it. I remember seeing those in an apartment. that we lived in for 2 and 1/2 years. when I was walking to school by myself. Or the first years, you know, somebody. was married to a step spouse that was. not the most benevolent human being in. the in the planet Earth, right? Sometimes I I remembered sometimes just. that that gathering around um. like-mindedly. getting the same thing out of a TV show. Like an electric fireplace, but it was.

solace. It was a togetherness. uh that belied what was really going on. in the in the house. And there's a. couple of those, was when uh um the kids. are little and Robin and I were in the. early early years of our marriages. that were sublime. Right then and there because. we're sit we're laughing. It's there. The kids are being goofy. There's a. moment that that there's a moment that. comes along. And what I don't think there's a better.

example of a true sense of family and. home and connection in moments that are. not Thanksgiving or Christmas morning or. a wedding or They are when you're just. sitting around on a Thursday night. You. know, content and and and happy and. nothing is happening except you the. sense of presence that's there. Yeah. There's a couple of them. That's funny. that that you should ask that because I. realized now that uh the amount of the. amount of suggestions we all had for how.

we would sit there. Yes. What would be. on the TV? What we had done just before? Uh was coming right out of right out of. our individual lives from Bob, from. Eric, certainly from from Robin and. myself. Yeah, it felt so real. It it feels so real. It every every. scene, every conversation, every event. feels so real. One of the things that we learned. because it's shot in this very specific, you know, aspect ratio, you know, Yeah. camera position is that everything.

works. Everything. If you're in the. scene, even if you're not talking, you. are registering in a way that warrants. attention. The the stuff that is on the. walls, I can't say enough about the TV. Here's something goofy. I walked onto. the set one day. and it was from a period from, you know, early 1960s or something like that. And. the TV was an old General Electric TV. that was the same model.

we had No. when Apollo 8 flew around the. moon. We had This was the TV we had. It. was old black and white thing with. General Electric. It had this big. channel changing knob on the side. It. was like that. And it was the same maple. cabinet. It wasn't big. It was just not. much, you know, it was on legs and it. had the cloth speakers and General. Electric and things like that. And I. immediately took a picture of it and I. sent it to my siblings. And I said, "You. recognize this?" And they all said, "Hey, that's a TV from the Johnson. house." You know, it was like that. So,

it had these kind of like talismans that. came along with it. Uh that. odd oddly enough, they were they were. both great to see and bittersweet to. remember. Does that make sense? Yeah, for sure. For sure. Do you I know. you're fascinated by space. Do you have. any desire to go to the moon? Oh, you. know, if if they were going to do a. thing where, you know, regular blokes. could just go up and go around it. I. mean, I I'd take that. That's a good. one. Oh, yeah, just just to do it. But oh, yeah, I think it would. I'm sure Elon Musk would love to take.

Oh, I'm not going with him. But he's not. going there anyway. You know, they're. just going Come on, man. But I've I've. met I've talked to the I've talked to. the crews that are in line to make the. next uh. orbit around the moon. It could happen. as early as 25, 26. Mhm. And uh man, oh man, I just say, "Hey, if you need someone just to clean. up and crack jokes, you got room in. there. Give me give me a call." I'll get. down to whatever weight requirements are. necessary because I wouldn't pass it up.

Uh but I said uh but only if all of the. windows are are clear cuz a lot of times. those they have gone up and the the. windows get kind of like messed up. because of zero gravity and the vacuum. outside and the building material. Right. Was that fascination only from. movies? Is that where it came from? No, no, that came from uh I was right. smack dab in I was that I was that. educatable generation for which it was. space travel was the embodiment of every.

discipline that we were studying. Current events, politics, physics, art, um engineering, math. It was all all. wrapped up all into one. It was on TV TV. regularly. I was I was just I was the. the uh. Of course, now you're going to think. about this, but uh the idea of being. alone in space in a space suit is kind. of it was kind of mirroring my life when. I was like 7 8 9 10 11 years old. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it's uh I don't know. if you saw that movie Fly Me to the Moon. recently. I did not, but it's you know,

it's streaming in the new movie economy, so I know it'll be there for a thousand. years. So, I'll. catch up with it. It's a little bit of a the uh conspiracy. theory really didn't happen yet. Normally, I hate that kind of stuff, but. uh this good quality people, so I'll try. to check it out. No, it was I'd love to get your thoughts. on it when you see it. Yeah. And your. other fascination is World Wars. Well, this is another thing that goes back to. um. the study of it. Let me put it Let me. put it to you this way. Um I was born in.

1956. That's 11 years after the war is done. So, essentially, everybody who is an. adult in my life. had memories of those years, whether. they went to war or not. They had. memories of the what I like to call the. emotional stasis. of the early 1940s. In which. go back again. They did not know the war. was going to end. In 1943, they had no idea.

how long. the war was who was going to live, who. was going to die, who was going to win, who was going to not who was not. Who. was going to come back. 1943, if you're. alive, they're not saying, "Hey, don't. worry about it. The war is going to be. over in just another 18 months." They. don't know that. And that was a palpable thing that was. passed on to me because um. when it came around time to get to know. the life stories of a teacher, uh a friend of my dad's, uh.

you know, parents of uh of uh of my. pals. They would talk about those years, their. youth, in three distinctive parts, three. acts of their lives, and you know, which. might have been picking up on because, you know, some sort of story sense. When. they were kids, it was before the war. When they When my dad was in high. school, it was before the war. When he. was working on a farm, listening to the. radio, and I and worried about, you. know, not being able to afford the.

dentist, it was before the war. Then, there was well, that was during. the war. It's a whole different. storytelling process, the whole. different guidelines of the narrative. Well, you have to understand, that was. during the war. That was '42, it was. during the war. And their daily life was. completely different than what it had. been. There was less of things. There. was this fear of this unseen enemy. possible to attack. There were. blackouts. They couldn't get cling. peaches. They didn't have birthday cakes.

as much. They They didn't have that It. was during the war. And also, I said, "Well, where were you?" "Oh, well, that. was during the war." "Well, where were. you?" "Well, I was in a battalion, you. know, I was I was, you know, I was My. dad was in the South Pacific. He was a. machinist. And he would never have been. in the South Pacific as a machinist were. it not for the war.". Then the rest of their lives, when we. show up, you know, and with this next. generation shows up, or their kids show. up, all this stuff happened, and again, the narrative has completely changed. We. have to understand,

that was after the war. So, on one hand, there was something to celebrate, but on. the other hand, there was, guess what? Life became one damn thing after. another, in a different way that it had. been before the war during the. And, you know, it. the people that you the people who did. it well, you know, the these. storytellers, the teachers, or even the. friends of my dad's when we're sitting. around and everybody's relaxed on a. Thursday night and they're drinking. beers, you know, and they're talking.

about when they're getting to know each. other. These The stories from any one of. those acts I thought were were. fascinating, were. uh were ponderable because. as a 7-year-old. I'm hearing my dad and my mom and other. people talk about when they were 7 years. old. With the magnifying glass and the. division of well, that was before the. war. We did not know what was coming. down the pipe. Then everything else that goes along.

with it. I still can't quite get past. the fact that. uh in 19 1964. the Beatles are on the Ed Sullivan Show. Mhm. And my dad is of the generation of. just 20 years prior. The war was not yet over. and they had no idea when they were ever. going to come home. And now these four. kids are up on there saying and yeah, yeah, yeah and playing guitars and stuff. like that and everybody's everybody's. making a big deal about it. Part of it. is never saw this coming, never would.

have would never and in a lot of ways. now us younger generation did not have. the same attention span. for what they had what they had been. through. I mean I until the you know, you could talk about Elvis Presley all. you want and rightly so. He was a He was. a massive generational force, changed. the world a lot of ways. But still. vis-à-vis. a World War II generation Mhm. the. Beatles come along at 1964 and it's.

almost as though the last vestige of. that generation carries import, you. know, has has weight that we can pay. attention to. Even though I've you know, I've I've never stopped studying it. because at the end of the day it's just. great storytelling. You want to talk. about great protagonists, antagonists, you want to talk about the irony. You. want to talk about the the the the. schizophrenia of what can happen in good. and bad. World War II is about as good. as you're going to get. And also, here's.

this other thing that's ridiculously. satisfying about it. It ended. There was a time when it was all done. And wars now go on for generations. And. they go on for decades. And there are no. there are no moments when, you know, the. swords are pounded into plowshares. Not that that happened in, you know, 100% in 1945. Yeah, it seems it seems as. though like not that it's any comparison.

with the events that took place, but our. language of this generation has become. pre-pandemic, during the pandemic, post-pandemic. you could you could probably look at it. there was a moment certainly the AIDS. crisis came along and the pandemic of. the of AIDS. That certainly altered all. of society in the same way. You could. talk about it you could talk to an awful. lot of guys who will say, "Well, you. understand, that was before AIDS, you. know." And that that means a lot. And I. yeah, you would say the same thing about. the certainly the the the COVID. pandemic. We went through something.

that I mean, my look, I got grandkids. who are now talking about their lives. and well, that was during COVID. And so. they didn't go to school or they didn't. see their friends. They were trying to. do things online. It was really. different. And now COVID is let go and. guess what? Now they're just getting on. with the rest of the tasks of growing up. with their lives. So they too. you know, might be a little young to. remember, you know, before COVID, but. they do. So yeah. So, what's going to be. next do you think? Yeah.

What's going to be that next three-act. structure to our uh. to our collective history? Well, as you. keep saying more will be revealed as. well. There's uh This yes, this too. shall pass and more shall be revealed. and we will never all know of everything. that we need to know. Yeah, and uh. you've been seen as the um or even in a. poll voted the most trusted man in. America. That's something there's an anomaly in. the vote-taking process there. How does. After all the times I've lied to. everybody, "Oh no, this is a great. movie. Yeah, by all means come see this.

movie." That that was a lie sometimes. How does How do you How do you deal with. that kind of a Oh, you know, I don't. know. There's there's a. um. Yeah, yeah, okay, you know, I get it. That's good. I I guess that comes around. to. perhaps the thing that I was talking. about uh countenance-wise, you know? If. you were going to take somebody who is. who is an artist and say, "Uh who's the scariest person alive?".

You know, uh the you'll you'll come off. with, you know, I don't know, you know, Vincent Price, you know, what whatever. I'm an artist, I'm a storyteller and I. think I'll take that as as um. a testament to I guess the veracity that. I brought to my craft, my my choice. I'd. like to think that, you know, you go all. in on on a story, on and say, "Hey, sit. down. I I want You might be interested. in hearing this." Is that your your this. an honest exchange Mhm. uh between.

myself and the audience. And if it's an. honest exchange, then you could come to. trust them, you know? That's not a bad. thing. That's not a bad thing. Absolutely. And and it's it's quite. magical actually. I mean, trust in that. way. of course, you know, Hollywood success. You've spoken about it so many times, which is why we haven't dived into it. And then, you know, a happy healthy. marriage. And how did you know Rita was. the one? Like that's you know, how how. how did you know? Uh divine providence,

you know, uh. Maybe it's kind of like the same thing. that happened when I was in school, uh. and in high school. And I said, "This can be school?". Um there was a thing with uh with uh. with Rita where I just thought, "Wait, it could be like this? It could be like just sitting around? That's how It could be like a a carefree. union? I didn't know that. How about. that? I had Honestly, I had not. truly experienced that.

somehow. And when it's there, you just kind of go, "Oh." I I you know, I I I you know, I'd like to say and then. you know, and then we met and I said, "And you. know, and then that was that." Okay, yeah, that's pretty much it. Then then. you get on with it. And uh you know, years later, um no small amount of. no small amount amount of me saying. things like, "Oh, let me get this. straight." You know, there's a lot of. plenty of plenty of examples of that. going on, you know. With so much so that.

oh, here goes Dad. Oh, here goes Dad. with a let me get this straight. Why. would it work for me argument? I pull it. out I pull it out all the time. And you. know, we we we do she does too. And. that's the exchange. Yes. Uh and it's it remains glorious. And and. ear and you you can't create it anywhere. else. Can't fake that. Yeah, there's. that beautiful uh acceptance speech that. you have in 2020 when you talk about how. a man is blessed with this beautiful. family that he has in front of him where.

you were in tears and That you know, you. can't I'm for Number one, I am a sap. Number two, you I you don't expect You. think you're going to be able to get up. and you know, get away with it. So you. think, "Oh, and I'm going to get it. I'll be some straight shooting. I'll see. some great stuff." But then I just you. look down and you know, there's my wife. and there's you know, there's you know, a combination of all my kids. Sometimes. four, five, you know, they're all just. there. And what do you see? I see little. babies, you know. Um and I you You I you know, I see uh I.

I see this uh this woman that uh has put. up with so much stuff. And you just life. flashes before your eyes a little bit. And there's that there's that moment of. surrealism where it's like, "Can. somebody explain to me how this. happened? I'm not I'm not quite sure.". And here does the same thing, the movie. Here, h e r e. Yeah. There's a sense of you're watching your. life flash back. It What I really loved. Okay, this I guess we have to be careful.

about spoiler alerts cuz yeah, so we we. we don't we don't. we don't want to go there. But I think. that. it ends up examining this truth that. sometimes life passes in the wink of an. eye. And it's like, "Wow, are we here. already?". But there's other times in that same. week of an eye, you comprehend it all. And I think that's what the. that's what the the movie works towards,

if I can be so bold. And in many ways, that was the theme that we were all. working towards. And even in the the the. perfectness of just the word, it. happened here. This is where that. happened. Have you been Have you ever. like been in like a really super. historic place? Yes, a few times, yeah. Where something went down. Now, maybe. it's something from thousands of years. ago, or maybe it's something that you. witnessed on TV yourself. You go to Like. you go to like Washington D.C. Mhm.

And uh. stood on the you know, Look, I made a. movie in front of the Lincoln Memorial. I couldn't believe that was happening. And then years later, I'm going back And. there is there is a plaque at the top of. the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, which. is where Martin Luther King stood. Mhm. And I have since gone back and read. about that extraordinary day that did. not happen by accident. In fact, it was. originally going to be a protest. It was. going to be a sit-in. And the powers. that be all got together and said, "Rather than make it a protest of a.

sit-in, make it a march.". And suddenly also things happen like. there were plenty of bathrooms lined up. There were sandwiches that was made for. people. There were social services. There were cops. There were army men. standing by ready in case it was going. to be a riot. At a 1964 or '63, a riot was definitely a a possibility. Would have been a massive amount of.

civil unrest. And instead, it was all of. these speakers. Marlon Brando was there for Charlton. Heston was there along with everybody. else. And um Martin Luther King was Everybody. could only speak for 7 minutes cuz they. did not want it to run over and become. unruly. So every Everybody who spoke. spoke for 7 minutes. And that includes. the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King. And there's a reason that plaque is that. that plaque is there in order to in. order to place it. And to be there and. say to then just envision everything.

It's powerful place. Powerful powerful spiritual. Yeah. Are there other places you've been. to like that or revisited multiple times. to decode and discover and. Uh oh yeah. Um. I'll tell you I'll tell you one. Uh. who cares what I said on other podcasts? Um. when we when we were doing um believe it. or not when we were in Philadelphia cuz. I was making Philadelphia. Kids were you. know I. uh our only had three kids there and. some of them were with us and we were We.

did It was a freezing cold day. We had a. day off. So we went and saw the sights. Including um. Independence Hall. You know Liberty. Bell. You know whole bit. What are you. going to do in Philadelphia? You're. going to go do that. You're going to see. the Liberty Bell. You're going to go. like that. And Independence Hall being a famous. place and it's still in the same joint. and it still holds the same you know. dimensional structure to it you know. Maybe a lot of everything it might have. been you know, recreated but nonetheless. there it is. And we were up in the Senate building. and um. the Senate room, you know, cuz it had.

Congress, the Supreme Court, and the. Senate right there. And uh we were there and the the the. it's a national park and the ranger said. uh. if you look at all of this stuff is. reproductions except that chair, you. know, which is the original chair. I. said, "Wow, it looked the same." It. looked like a chair to me. So, he said, "That chair, that's an original chair.". And it looked exactly like the same. He. said all this other stuff had been. recreated to to the best of its. authenticity. And that's a riser there. And he said, "That spot.

in front of in front of the that uh the. dais. John Adams was sworn in as the second. president of the United States. taking the place of George Washington. It was the first time in recorded. history. when the rule of a sovereign nation. was passed to another. without bloodshed. and him not being a relation. He said something like that. And the. head my I said.

we are in holy ground. Nobody died. The king is dead, long live the king. No. one was murdered, butchered. The hordes. didn't come in and take away. No one was. passing it on to his son in order to go. on. There was no relation between John Adams. and George Washington. The only thing. that happened was this modicum of a. thing they call democracy, which wasn't. really democracy. I mean, women couldn't. vote. If you were a slave, you were only. 3/5 of a human being. The only people. that actually voted were a bunch of. white men, property owners,

uh who originally didn't want to pay. their taxes to the to the crown. But look what look what look what. happened there. I mean, I I you know, I I've been you. know, plenty of cool joints in there, but there there the this idea, not. unlike the the place where Martin Luther. King stood. The idea that was. communicated right there was tantamount. to being in, you know, some version of. the holiest of holies, of, you know, a. precious shrine, a place of great faith. and hope. Mhm. I mean, speaking to that.

impact, you received a honorary Greek. citizenship. Oh, yeah. Uh for for your. for your amazing work there. Well, yeah. Yeah, look, we just love you. know, we love Greece and you know, it is. the home country to to my wife's family. and. it Well, you can do a. This is something that that we do and. that I do in Greece. You know, you go. off to some other island, you're. swimming somewhere, you're on a boat.

And you can kind of like. pivot. and all you see is land, sea, and sky. There's no sign of humanity. And you go like, "This is exactly what what it's looked. like. for 110,000 years. You know, this is. exactly what this island was here in. this exact same form." And by the way, there's a port right there, which was, you know, a place of antiquity or that. But to be able to look at something that. is unscathed exactly as it was is like.

looking at primordial force. It's like. going back in time and you see this. aspect of the sky and the wind and the. aridness of it, but the power of, you. know, a ship in order to get there. I I've done that, you know, any number. of places, you know, great historical. places like that. And it ends up It. makes you feel really, really teeny tiny. sometimes. It's like, "Who are we?" But, you know, specs in the course of all of this. It's. like standing under, you know, a big. massive sky and finally seeing on a.

really super dark night the, you know, our galaxy or the. Milky Way, our solar system and you go. like, "Wow, I I been out of town for a. while. I forgot how big that sky is and. uh that that's a part of this. Is there. It's important to go through that. sometimes. So important. Have you ever seen a solar. eclipse? I I'm sure I've kind of but not. I not yeah. Not the last one but the one. prior to it. We made sure that we were.

in the path of totality and we saw it. And oh my. god. It. You I cannot talk. No special effect in. any movie has ever had the same impact. or effect on anybody who takes a look at. what that is. You feel as though you are. witnessing. God the you know the clockworks of God. and it's they can predict it. They know. what it's going to be and every step of.

it is you cannot fathom what you are. seeing. And I it made me feel on one. hand it made us feel all feel on one. hand really super tiny but at the other. hand magnificent because we're a race. that knew when it was coming and could. predict it could make sure we're there. watching. It was really marvelous. Where was that? When you read it there. was like these paths you know you can. look at it on a map and we just made. sure that we were up in the panhandle of. Idaho in order to in order to take a. look at it. Wow. People were just parking their cars. you willy-nilly everywhere in order to. be. They were they were driving from you.

know hundreds of miles on either side of. it in order to get to this very specific. path of totality. And it is man. It is. it is a totally immersive experience. Don't miss it if you can. Okay next one. Tom it is been such a joy spending time. with you today. I feel so grateful to. have been able to hear stories be taken. on adventures and learn life's lessons. through. been it's just been a delightful. conversation. I've I've I've learned.

loved hearing about your history you. know how you got there. For for the oldest boy of the what is it. A a fractured marriage between Indian. yeah. Indian mom and dad? You've uh. uh I think you've done well in your in. your pursuit. Uh thank you. I'm very. grateful. We end every On Purpose. episode with a final five. These have to. be answered in one word to one sentence. maximum. One word to one sentence. maximum. Okay. I will probably I will probably break. the rules, so don't worry if you do. Okay. but uh Tom Hanks, these are your final.

five. The first question is, what is the. best advice you ever had or received? Throw deep, baby. And why? If you're going to do it, do it. If you have the chance, do it. Don't pause. There there Instinct, man. If you got an. instinct, go at it. Throw deep. I love that. Uh second question, what is. the worst life advice you ever had or. received?

Um. uh. do Fantasy Island. I didn't take it, but uh there was no. reason to do Fantasy Island. That's. great. Uh question number three, how. would you define your current purpose? Uh to be present. Mhm. Wherever one is, whoever is one around, be present. Be right there. Show up. Be present. Why? Because that will teach you then, I.

think, how. the difference between telling the truth. to the best of your understanding. and being all right with what happens. next. If you can't do that, your. life is going to be a wasted. opportunity. If that makes sense. Uh question number four. Mhm. Are you making these up as you go. along or is it No. No. No. No. These are. all No. No. No. These are all No. No. No. Yeah. Every single question I've. asked you today. Um.

what's something you believe you're. learning and evolving into right now? Or. something that you're tinkering with. right now personally? There is. an addictive quality. to examining the past. that can be counterproductive. If you're only doing it in order to. wallow in a nostalgia of how easy things. were back then. I fancy myself a lay historian. I.

Vanity of vanity all is vanity, there's. nothing new under the sun. Okay, so this. stuff has been going on forever. If you are not looking if well if I am. not looking for examples of the. frailties of the human condition, if I. am only looking at the past in a version. of there was an antagonist and there was. a protagonist and the protagonist won. Missing the point of how. uh. miraculous the human condition is. Um.

if you're going to. I went to Egypt. And I saw all the stuff that tourists. see when they see Egypt, right? And if you're going to Egypt in order to. come up with some Oh, this is the home. of great spirituality and there is a. cosmic power here and this is where the. Okay, fine. Go ahead. I'm not going to. tell you that's not what's going on. But. if you're not also seeing this ongoing. freaking mystery. of what humankind has figured out.

on its own. You're missing out, you. know? There's. There is Yes, they call them the great. pyramids. They weren't necessarily built. for great reasons. Sometimes they're just built in order to. maintain the status quo of of the haves. and the have-nots. Yeah. And when I heard a guy say the Sphinx, you know, the Great Sphinx? Mhm. You could have been alive. 2,000 years after the Great Sphinx was. built.

and you're still. in Pharaonic Egypt. It's still before. the common era began and guess what? You. and nobody else has any idea. who built the Sphinx. That's how old it is and that it's built. as well as it and if you don't take that. and understand like, man, there's. mystery there. Who did it? How they did it? That. stuff's always interesting. The why they did it? That's interesting, too. But also that incredible impact of.

that the Sphinx will never be explained. If you're just there for the nostalgia. and you know, you want to, you know, ride the camel and get your picture. You. can do all that stuff and and that's a. blast. But there's some there's. something to the past that if you allow. yourself just to be soothed by it. Um. you're missing out on a great life. lesson. Something that is important as. physics or poetry. So powerful. Why why do you think we do. that? I I think because we're looking.

for um. a. Well, we we want to feel good about going to. sleep at night, you know? We want to. feel as though that there is this uh. that there is this this uh. purpose. that outside uh I think um. outside of the cosmic understanding that. hey, you know what? You know, the. universe is uh indifferent. But the human condition is not. That's what separates us from, you know, um. you know, the chaos theory. We don't.

have to live in chaos if we choose not. to. And if we're only looking at the past in. order for some degree of oh, it was so. much easier back then. No, it's it's. never been easier. As I said before, you. know, no one no one knows that they're. living they're living in the 1400s. They. were just alive back then. And uh. it it might be highfalutin, but what it. says is Well, I'll tell you this. What. it says is. our best days are yet to come. We are going to progress from here. And.

if you're just looking at the past and. saying, "Man, that was when it was. great. I wish we could go back." No, you. never want to go back. You always have. to understand that our best days are. still ahead of us. Otherwise, what's that say of us if we. don't move forward? It says we gave up. or got lazy. Or ended up putting. too much too much power in. in maintaining a status quo. that ends up being a division between. the haves and the have-nots. Absolutely.

Well said. Fifth and final question, we. ask this to every guest who's ever been. on the show. If you could create one law that. everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Man, you spring this on me? You Really? I'm looking at a wall of. shame of people that you Polaroids of. people that have been They all came up. with something for that? They did. One law. that everybody had to follow. A law.

meaning you could be punished if you. don't obey this law? Sure. Well, it can't be like a philosophical. thing like be kind, you know? Being kind is in the eye of the. both the kinder and the kindee. I would. pass a law. that says. no one. is allowed. to infringe upon the right. in regards to.

what somebody else. reads. That is, no matter how disagreement, whatever that disagreement is, to be free. is to think. And the the. physical manifestation of thought is in. the choose choosing of what you read. Mhm. So, I would say that. no one is allowed to infringe upon the. right. to determine. infringe or. figure out what the legal No one is.

allowed to infringe upon the right of an. individual to read what they choose to. read. Mhm. That would be my That would. be the law. Now, take a look at all the societies. Yeah. I'm fascinated by I'm fascinated by. communism, man, cuz those those guys. were idiots, you know, they truly were. And then the idea that in East Berlin. you cannot read Mhm. You can You cannot read um.

To Kill a Mockingbird or or, you know, any any or Doctor Zhivago, for crying. out loud. The idea that you can maintain. order in society by preventing somebody. from reading what they want to read. This is madness. Mhm. This is tyranny in. its. This is This is This is draconian What's. the word I'm looking at? That's That's. despotism at its absolute height Mhm. that you you can do that. And I think on. the opposite of that, absolute freedom. to read what you want to read, and along. with that, create what you want to.

create as well. That should be. the default position of the human. condition. And isn't it amazing that. it's not? So, that would be the law I. would pass. Powerful, unique, and. completely original answer, sir. Worth. waiting for. Well, as an author, you. know, as a guy who writes I'll I'll I'll bow. to that. Well, Tom, thank you so much again. was magnificent. Thank you so much. No, oh, it's great. Such a pleasure, and I. can't wait for everyone to go and watch. here on November 1st. All right, yeah, we'll pay that. Oh, yes, go ahead. Now, by the way, you can.

only see it in a theater. We Okay, here's the thing. This is why This is. why I crack staff is so petrified. There. is no streaming deal for this movie. You. know, you you you're not going to be. able to, you know, log on, enter your pass code, you know, share it with your friends and all that. The only way you're going to You're. going to have to drive to a place and. buy a ticket at a certain time and sit. in a room with a bunch of strangers I. love it. and watch this movie. It's all. almost unheard of. And of course, everybody is petrified that that's going. to be the requirements of seeing a.

movie. But that's the way it's going to. be. Yeah, I love it. Theaters are still. one of my favorite experiences. Oh, yeah. It's the You know, uh not to. continue along with that, but this this. is thing that we talk about all the time. right now. And I actually believe that. podcasts is can be an example of it. It. is the experiential economy. Meaning that. it is one thing Look, everything is a. one-on-one. You listen to a record, you. see a band. But the experience of being. with others as opposed to being in your. house or being on your headphones or.

being like that. Being with others. has a value to it. that in some cases is worth money. Okay, that's commerce. But in other cases is. to be sought after. My wife and I went. to see a play in New York. It was a. revival of Into the Woods. Mhm. And it was more or less right after the. pandemic. Theaters were back open again. People. were People were essentially living. their lives again. They they'd been. enough, you know, uh everybody gotten.

enough vaccines and what have you. And. uh COVID wasn't killing as many people. as it had. And so we went to the theater cuz uh we. had we knew some people in it. And uh it. was Here's this thing happened. You know, it's a theater. Uh mumble. everybody's blah blah blah. Sold out. Big hit. And mumble mumble mumble. And when the. house lights. went to half for the first act, there was a standing ovation. People stood up before a word before a.

note had been sung. Nothing had happened. on the What was happening was the show. is about to start and it was a standing. ovation and I I literally said that's. the that's the experience. People are. reacting to the experience of being with. strangers or a handful of friends with. strangers in a room and nothing. what is going to happen in this room. will never be repeated. The only people. that will participate in this is the. folks that are here right now. And.

movies often times can have that same. experience cuz I can remember going to. see 2001 or Jaws or Close Encounters of. the Aliens or you know, or Full Metal. Jacket. I can remember the specifics of. all the things and it's the same. experiential experience and maybe it's. maybe it's part of the economy or maybe. it's just part of the the great human. purchase that we all want to we want to. participate in. For sure. Thank you, Tom. Thank you. Great great time. It was amazing.

enjoyed it. If you love this episode, you'll love my. interview with Will Smith on owning your. truth and unlocking the power of. manifestation. Anybody who hasn't spoken. to their parents or their brother, call. them right now. Don't think you're going. to have a chance to call them tomorrow. or next week. That opportunity with my. father changed every relationship in my. life.