The Stress Expert: Your Brain is Like a Phone Battery! (9 Ways to Instantly Recharge)

61% of people feel expected to just get. over stress. Yeah. It's like just power through the. moment. CEO of Calm. author of Recharge. David Coe. Good stress could lead to resilience. You're never really going to have a. stress-free work environment. Not. everything has to be 24/7 365 because at. some point you've caused a lot of bad. stress. That's a real kind of indicator. for you to say I need to really kind of. take a hard stop and figure out how I. recharge.

The number one health and wellness. podcast Jay Shetty Jay Shetty The one, the only Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On. Purpose, the number one place you come. to become happier, healthier, and more. healed. Thank you so much for tuning in. today. Today, I'm so excited because I. talked to a really good friend, someone. that I respect so highly and admire so. deeply, and I've had the fortune of. knowing for the last couple of years.

I'm talking about David Coe, the CEO of. Calm, the leading app for meditation and. mindfulness, and a new author of his. book Recharge, that offers tips for the. best mental wellness practices in. today's digital world. The book has. interviews with rappers, rebels, and. innovators as he travels talking about. stress, burnout, and feeling drained. If. any of you are feeling stressed right. now, this episode's for you. If you're.

feeling drained from work right now, this episode's for you. And if you need. to recharge, this book and episode is. for you. Please welcome to On Purpose, the CEO of Calm, David Coe. David, it's. great to have you here. Thank you, Jay, for having me here today. I'm so. excited. Uh I'm so excited because I really feel. like ever since we met, I felt like we. hit it off. Right away. Yeah. Oh yeah, right away, right away. And I've been. fortunate enough to have you interview.

me so many times. So, I'm glad I get to. repay the favor. this time round. And I wanted to ask you. just just to just to get our blood. boiling just to start with some fun. I. wanted to ask you David, what's. something that you're not calm about? I think there's a lot of things that I'm. not calm about throughout my day. I will. tell you right now. I am in the throws of my. my oldest daughter applying to colleges. Even though I try to appear very calm in.

front of her and cool and collective, you know. And you don't want to be like. a helicopter type of parent. There are. times where I'm just like, you know, I want to get in there and say. something, but I realize almost like the. best thing for her is for her to go. through it. And I have to kind of take a. backseat. And so, it's it's kind of. going from where you take the wheel to. like you're in the passenger seat and. then you're in the backseat kind of. peering every once in a while. But I. can't help myself from like, I don't. know when she first learned to drive by.

like saying, oh, I'm I'm I'm stepping on. the brake here and there, right? But uh. that's one thing right now that is. probably a little stressful. Yeah, I. know. I can imagine. I read a study that. said we process around 72 gigabytes of. information per day. Yeah. Which the research likened to. reading Tolkien's The Hobbit. every single day. That's nearly 96,000. words. Right. Right. And you think about that. and you go, no wonder we're overwhelmed. No wonder we're burned out. No wonder.

we're stressed. And you have this really. brilliant analogy comparing the brain. and our mind to a battery. That's right. Walk us through this because I really. like this in your book, Recharge, the. way you break it down and explain it. You know, the recharge. came from a good friend of mine. And we were talking about mental health. and I just asked her. I said, you know, how's it going with your kids? And she goes, you know, I was talking to. my kids and I just said, how's your. battery? And I was like, wait, what? And she goes, well, I said, how's your.

battery? I said, why? And she said, well, if I ask them how. they're doing, I get the plain fine. And cuz they're kids, they're just like, I'm fine. But if I ask them like, how's your. battery? They're like, well, it's at like 50%. Or it's Or so you may need a snack cuz. they're little. Or it's at 75%. She. She's like, oh, you're okay. Or. sometimes they're at 25% and they just. need something, you know, to decompress. While we were talking about it, a light.

bulb just went out. And that light bulb. that went on was about like, she took. something that at times can be charged. and she took something and really. simplified in a way that I think we. would all understand, regardless of age. And I asked her, I was like, can I run. with that? And she was like, yeah, sure, whatever, right? And we still laugh. about it, Brenda, and I cuz she's like, wow, you actually took it. And I was. like, yeah, I used it as a theme. I talk about it. I go to clients, I'll. go out and it just kind of resonates. with people cuz it's simple.

and it doesn't kind of draw out any. emotions. It just says like, hey, how's. your battery? How are you feeling? And I think that sometimes that gets. lost because we all all we try to make. it bigger sometimes than it is. And it's really nice when you can kind. of just simplify it and just ask you, how you How's your battery? How are you. doing? I I love the question, how's your. battery even more than. how you doing, like you said, because. I think sometimes we. I think you also mentioned that we can. scale everything up to a 10.

That's right. So, everything can feel. like it's a 10, it's the worst. Or. everything can feel like, oh, it's just. plain old fine. That's right. And then you don't have. much to play with. Whereas when you get. a number, walk us through the different. breakdowns as you do in the book. Yeah. Because I think when you look at. zero to 100, we're very good at feeling zero and. maybe 100, right? Like if it's your. kids' wedding, chances are you'll be at. 100. If it's like your kids' birthday, like you're at 100. Like there's these.

joyful, blissful moments in life that. people experience and we go, "Yeah, that. was a 100 moment." And then we all know. what a zero moment feels like. You lost. a loved one who sadly passed away. You. got, you know, you lost your job. Like. there's these very zero moments. Walk us. through how you break down the zero to. 100. I I try to do it really simply. You. know, I I have found and I'll and I'll. talk about my own kids at times. When I ask them that question, how their. battery is, I notice that they check, like most.

people, they check their phones quite. often. And at some point it just becomes like a. reflex. And they don't even know they're. checking it. But when they do look at it and the. power's down or it goes yellow or it. goes red, they they get a little. panicked. They're like, "Oh my god, I. got to charge it.". Imagine my surprise when we're in like. airports and they're like going up to. people, "Do you Can I use a little of. your charge?" Right? And I think we've. all been there where we don't have a. charger and you're like, "I need. something. Can somebody help me out?".

Most times people are really kind and. they'll just, you know, kind of help. you, especially if you're a kid. I thought about then putting it into. zones and I put it into four zones. And. I just said, "You know, if you're at 75. to 100, you're probably fine.". And meaning that, you know, you're. you're in a zone where you're just. moving along. If you're at 50 to 75, you're probably in a place where you. might need to start to think about how. you may want to recharge. If you're in that 25 to 50,

it's time to start figuring out take a. break. You may need to take a walk. You. may need to put down the phone. You may. need to stop the litany of Zoom calls. that you're on right now, right? And if. you find yourself 0 to 25, that's a real kind of indicator for you. to say, "Hey, something's probably not. right. and I need to really kind of take a hard. stop and figure out how I recharge." And. recharge can happen in number of. different ways. And so, I'm I've I've often talked about. when I've gotten into that zone,

I just kind of almost go for a walk. Uh I sometimes go outside. I come I take. some deep breaths. I do a number of. things. Sometimes I may need to work. out. A workout really helps me to. recharge on a personal front. And everyone's a little bit different. and they'll go to different techniques. And so, in the book, I list a lot of. things in the book that you may do. You may do one, two, three, four, or all. of them. And And they're just really techniques. for you to figure out what works for. you. Mhm. Yeah, no. I And I really like.

that breakdown because. I think we're all better when we're. measuring things with numbers. That's. right. specificity there. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm one of those people. I think I think the way your phone is. charged says so much about you as a. person. So, my phone is always charged. Yeah. I'm very rarely below 30% or 40%. on my phone. And I think I try and monitor my. personal health in a similar way. Right. As soon as I feel myself going below. 50%, I know it's time for an early.

night. I know it's time to cancel. weekend plans. I canceled a dinner this. evening for that exact reason. Mhm. I got back from work yesterday. I. left I started work yesterday at like. 8:30 a.m. And I got back from a shoot at. 9:30 p.m. Mhm. And I knew I had a dinner. tonight and I just said, "I'm so sorry. I can't make it.". you. Because I knew I had a busy day today. I. was interviewing you. I was interviewing. another guest. And I was like, "I want. to be really present for that. It's. really critical stuff. And then I need. to recharge, using your word. I need to.

recharge this evening. And I'm always. shifting things to recharge. And I love. that idea because I think we hear the. word rest and then sometimes we we feel. guilty. We shouldn't but we feel guilty. like I don't have time to rest. Yeah. But when you think of it about. recharging, you're reframing it and. going oh, I do need to recharge because. otherwise how am I going to give my best. tomorrow? 100% 100% and you know, it's funny you. and me are the same on batteries. I keep. my battery pretty charged as well. I.

have an electric car too. I marvel at. people who can take that electric car. battery down to 5%. I can't do it. That stresses me out. I'm stressed out. when they tell me these stories. Oh, I. took the battery down to 5%. I'm like. seriously? How I mean and they're like. oh, it's fine. Yeah. You know, and for. some people it works, right? For me that. doesn't work. I'm plugging in that. battery every night and I'm going to. make sure I charge that battery up. Others will let it go pretty low. Everyone's a little bit different that. works for them. Yeah. Uh I've asked some. of my friends who charge it go really.

low and they're like well, if I charge. it too much I get stressed. Like Oh, okay. Can work the other way. Interesting. Yeah. So it's got to kind. of work for you and how you want to. recharge and different techniques that. you want to do. You're never really. going to have a stress-free work. environment. Anxiety, depression and. then starts to leads to physical. ailments cuz we know there's a linkage. Good stress could lead to resilience. It. could lead to growth. It actually could. lead to a stronger culture. I was. wondering if someone's at a zero, when.

you ask them how's your battery? Yeah. And if someone says I'm I'm at. five and I'm talking about emotionally, mentally not not their car or their. phone. What would you say to them? How how. would how would you communicate with. them some of these tools when you're at. zero? I've learned to like. take the space to give them space so we. can actually have a proper conversation. If you find someone at a really low. percentage and I may ask that person. like how are you doing? How How you.

feeling? And they and most of the time. you just want a I'm good. Because then you just want to keep. going. Mhm. And I find that often in the. business world as well. Not just in the. personal world, but in the business. world. We don't want a response. or sometimes we don't have the time to. be like if that person who you're asking. the question to says, "I'm not doing so. hot.". And I'm not doing so well. Then what do you do? So I'm very intentional when I ask some. of these questions to individuals so.

that I give I'm ready for that response. if it's I'm not doing well, like a five. percent. So I kind of want to frame it. there because I think I think sometimes. you rush through these conversations. And then when they do tell you they're a. five or a 10, I think the best things. that I have found is you have to be. present for them. You have to listen. You do such a. brilliant job at that, Jay, cuz. even in this type of environment, we. know as we have this one-to-one. conversation, if I was telling you I was. a five or a zero, you'd be all in on. this. And you would hear me out, and. then you would start to tell me, "Okay,

let's let's talk about what's causing. that.". And I've had at times where family. members have come to me and said, "Hey, I'm not I'm at a five.". And we start to break it down. And I. said, "Let me Let me put it in another. way for you.". Think about your phone. And we do checks on our phone. And there's things on your phone that. drain your battery more than other. applications. And they're like, "Yeah, it's like when you go and Apple shows. you what's draining or taking up all. your memory.". And what happens when you start to. delete some of those things?

Or what happens when you start to. recognize what's causing it? They're. like, "Oh, my battery is much more. efficient." And I'm like, "Yeah." So. it's how what's causing that in your in. your personal life right now. Yeah. And we try to create like, you know, analogies of different things. And so it. doesn't become a space where all we're. doing is talking about all the. negativity. We're trying to draw parallels to. different things in everyday life. And. so that it doesn't become such a charged. conversation, right? And that's kind of.

that recharge concept as well, where. we're like, let's talk let's talk about. your mental health. Because sometimes. some people don't want to talk about. their mental health. Mhm. But when we. bring up the battery conversation or how. to recharge, it's just a different. framing. And again, this is something I. think you just do brilliantly to bring. everyone in. And I I try to do the same thing there. as well. Yeah, I was going to ask you. that actually because I've always felt. that with you. you've always been present different. touchpoints, whether we're at dinners, events, where even when we've traveled. and seen each other when we're in New.

York for a dinner for time earlier this. year. You're you're always present too, and I. wonder how do you do that as a busy CEO? Because I think you're so right. that when we answer ask the question, "How are you doing?". we are subconsciously hoping someone. just says, "I'm good.". We are all We almost ask the question. and expect the response even before we. have a response. You're so right. Like. that really resonated with me. And the truth is sometimes life is fast. for most of us, right? Our schedules are.

back-to-back-to-back. We are running. from dropping your kid to school running. from what running to work, picking up. the laundry, doing the laundry, what. whatever, right? There's so much going. on. How do you actually create space. for these conversations? And that's part of of being a lot more. present and intentional. As leaders, and. I'd be curious now. for you as CEO as well. We're expected to have all the answers. We're expected to make many different.

types of decisions. We're expected to play roles in HR, but. also company strategy. And you know, when you take a step back, you can't make every decision. And then there's always things that. don't that are the unexpected. Take your. car analogy. So when you had your car. and you were at 30%, you were probably. with someone, but in the back of your. mind you're going, "How am I going to. get home? Where am I going to charge?". And you could do this probably better. than most, but but you still want to be. present for that individual that you're. with or your friends that you're with in.

those conversations. And what I find is like sometimes we as. leaders have to make the space. Sometimes we as leaders have to show. something that you do absolutely. brilliantly is to show a vulnerable side. to them and talk about our own stories. I find that many CEOs today aren't. vulnerable. I for one was not very good at being. vulnerable. When I wrote the book though, I was just. taken back at how many people who I met.

for the first time were so open and. honest and vulnerable with myself. And it got me thinking, "Well, if they. can do it, why can't I do it?". Right? And if I. start to show some of that vulnerability. at work, if I start to give a little bit. of space and more time for that. conversation, would that then make it just more open. for others and more safe for others to. have the conversation? Because if I if I'm not having that.

conversation and saying, "Here's my own. journey,". then they may feel that it's not okay. for them to open up as well. Right? I'd just be curious like you're a CEO, right? You're I mean, you've got all. these different businesses. How do you. do that with your own employees? Yeah, I think it's. uh. for me it comes to the balance. So, vulnerability is a great point and and I. really appreciate that because I do. agree that. if you create space to share what you're. going through with your teams, they then.

have the permission to do the same. And. I think I was mentioning when we did a. panel at Comco a month ago or so, I was. talking about a client of mine that I. was coaching who's the CEO of a very. large corporation. and we'd gone through a transformation. They were saying to me, "Jay, I'm you. know, I'm feeling good." And I was like, "Great, well, you should tell your team. about your journey." And they were like, "How can I tell them?" Right. And I. said, "What do you mean?" And they said, "Well, if I tell them, they're going to. think I'm weak." And I was like, "No, I. promise you, they're going to think. you're strong.". Mhm. And I think we're still redefining.

and reframing strength. in the world today. I think there are. some of us who still see bravado and. arrogance and chauvinism as being. strong. Mhm. And I think that's shifting, but it's. shifting very slowly. That's right. And so, it is a cultural. expectation as well, a societal. expectation of strength being this. kind of facade. But I think a lot of us. are now realizing, well, no, strength is. being able to show both sides and open.

up and be vulnerable. I think the other. thing that really comes to mind when I'm. thinking about being CEO is I think. stress can make people work harder. Mhm. But it's the right amount of stress that. makes someone work better. So true. Right? There's a spectrum of. stress. And so, if I just if I just keep. checking in with someone and go, "Have. you done it yet? Are you done yet? Why. are we not there yet? Why did the. numbers not triple this?" If I do that, they're going to feel stressed. And they. may work harder, but that doesn't mean.

they work better. That's right. And so, to me, the right. amount of stress, and I want to ask you. this as well, talk to me about the. difference between good stress and bad. stress. Yeah. And and how you've been able to. harness the right amount when you've got. it right. In the book, actually, I. interviewed Dr. Aditi Nerurkar. And you met her? Yeah, she's wonderful. Fantastic, right? And we got into this. whole conversation of good stress, bad. stress. You stress, good stress versus bad. stress, distress.

And you know, we talked about how. good stress could lead to resilience. It. could lead to growth. It actually could. lead to a stronger culture. You're never really going to have a. stress-free work environment. Agree. You know, we're always going to have stress at. work. We're all going to have deadlines. We're all going to have things we're. going to want to hit, but. but not everything has to be just like. you said, 24/7 365. because at some point it's going to. stack so much that you as a leader are.

realizing you're probably not being very. efficient. Your employees are probably. not working super efficiently, not. working well together, and they're. probably you've caused a lot of bad. stress to stress in their life. That's. leading to things like anxiety, depression, and then start to leads to. physical ailments cuz we know there's a. linkage between, you know, your mental. health and your physical health. And so. that becomes a very vicious cycle, especially in the workplace, and that. leads to a lot of. unproductivity. What I found with the.

two is you really have to find that. right balance and understand there will. be. just talk about it. There's a push. We're all going to make a push. We did it recently as a company. at Calm where we around the elections. And we treated the elections like our. Super Bowl moment cuz we knew and we saw. the data that people's stress was rising. every day as that day, November 5th, got. closer and closer. We saw it in the App. Store. We saw it in comments. We saw it. on social. So we really came together as a company.

to do different types of things around. that. Take a breath, a 30 seconds or 15. seconds of silence. Um we we showed. animals from the San Diego Zoo on. Instagram, and we got so many people. commenting that day that said, "Hey, thank you for the silence. Thank you for my 15 seconds in this. world where. so many things are happening." Now, people were dialing in from work cuz. they were stressed at work. Stress. doesn't just mean it's at home. It was.

like people were like during the. elections coming in from work. And so we wanted to give give a little. bit so they had a release so they could. be more productive. So, there's a lot of. things around stuff that I look at for. good stress and bad stress and recognize. there's always going to be a push-pull, but that's the part where you can't do. it alone. You got to have a good team, you got to talk about it. You do this so. well. And make sure that becomes part of your. fabric, your culture, your DNA. And. I think it's shifting. Mhm. But it's.

slow. Yeah. I think the conversation. around mental health in everyday life. it's the most approachable it's ever. been. Right? I talk about things with my own. kids today around mental health. When I was a child coming, uh you know, I'd be curious like for you like. immigrant family, we didn't talk about. our mental health in my household. Right? We talked more about powering. through things, and I can talk about. that later, but we didn't really talk. about it. My kids talk about it. They. may overuse it at times, not use it the. right way.

It's okay. They're having the. conversation, their friends are having. the conversation. I think that's great. But when you go to the workplace, it kind of stops. You know, and I go to so many places, and I'm like, "Do you talk about your. mental health at work?" And they're. like, "No.". And I'm like, "Well, let's change that. dialogue. Let's make it as approachable as it is. in everyday life. And how do we start to. do that? Let's give you the tools, and. we'll start at the top.". Yeah, you're so right. You're so right. What you're. painting a picture of for me is that I. look at.

the good stress being when we all know. what challenge we're up against. Mhm. We know what the goal is, and everyone. feels supported. And I think what often. happens is people don't know what the. goal is because you're not helping them. do that. They only see the challenge, and they don't feel supported. That's right. So, now they don't know. where they're going, and they feel if. they fall flat on their face, they've. nothing to catch them. That's right. As a leader, the goal is. to provide the goal. and the support, and then the person can.

focus on the challenge. Yeah, and be transparent. In that. journey. You know, I am I speak to many. CEOs in the valley and and over the. world and. you know, a lot of times I'll ask them, how do you prioritize things with your. employees? How transparent are you? And. I'll tell you many of them are not that. transparent. Or they'll be like, these. are the most important things. And then they'll add five more. And then. five more. All right? And I'll be like, oh, okay. What did you take away? And they're like, what are you talking. about? I mean, what did you take away?

And they're like, nothing. And I'm like, well, how do you. think that's affecting your employees? And they're like, I never really thought. about that. So, I've just compounded and stacked the. problem. as a leader. And you didn't take anything away and it. and and and it cascades down like a. megaphone. Think about what that employee is going. through and walk in their shoes for a. minute. You know, we at the top have the luxury.

of of having more control over our. schedules. But that person may not have as much. control over their schedule. They're. just ticking through things. And if you. just keep adding. and not taking certain things away and. saying, this is important, this isn't. important, here's how I think about it, here's how I'm being transparent, you're adding more stress to your. company. You know, leaders struggle with. how to be vulnerable. Is it going to be. used against me? Is someone going to. write about it and say I'm too weak? Is. the board going to think I'm weak as a.

leader? That's ultimately also a fail of. corporate stewardship because they have. to also look after your mental health. At Calm, I I love this. When I. first got introduced to Calm and started. taking calls with the teams and I took. my role of Chief Purpose Officer, I got. integrated into the culture, I loved the little things and the focus. on the little things at meetings at. Calm, whether they're on Zoom, in. person. I want to hear about these.

smaller things that are happening on a. daily basis, because I think often. companies think they need to put out a. thing that says, "We're focusing on. company mental health." And they're. doing these big things, but Calm. internally, Yeah. let alone the work they do with. other companies and workplaces, but Calm. internally had some really nice Yeah. cultural things that I noticed from the. outside in as I was being integrated. Walk us through some of those daily. things that you think create the rituals. and practices that help people. It was.

interesting for me, my first day at. Calm, I walk in and there Michael and Alex, who you know well, founders, right? love them. And they love you and they. talk about you all the time and how you. all first met. And they introduced me to the company, warm welcome, so inviting. And they started the meet the whole all. hands off with a meditation. And I wasn't really used to that. You know, and I was I was kind of. sitting there, uh, and I kind of noticed everyone and.

normally we listen to someone like. yourself, we'll turn you on or turn one. of our other kind of narrators on, they. do great. And everyone just kind of sat. there in the moment. And whether it was. sometimes it's, you know, really quick, 30 seconds, sometimes it's 5, 6 minutes, something 3 minutes. And they listened and it was and I kind. of was peeking at times, looking, I'm. like, is everyone kind of closing their. eyes, you know, around here, you know, looking there. And they were just in the. moment. It was a moment for me that. showed me how much they cared.

And I was like, wow, this company cares. This isn't forced. You don't have to be. here, you don't have to do this. And. they were there and they were present. and they were in the moment. So, that's like some of the That was one. of the ways I knew this company was. going to be different. And then I watched as the company did. things around gratitude, where we end. every all hands with gratitude. We read things that have come into us. And it's a reminder of the impact we're. having. And I think that's why sometimes I'm so.

stressed. Because I feel this weight of. responsibility. where every second of every day someone. is using the product. And I just feel like if we're not. answering them, we're not helping them in the moment, someone's not getting something that. they need. Mhm. And I feel that stress. And I feel the the res- it's really. responsibility. Yeah. And I talk about. that with the employees. And I think it's really important to. talk about that. So, we do the gratitude. piece at the end. We have Zoom free.

days, you know, where where. I talk to employees about, "Hey, if. you're in a moment where you find. yourself in five Zooms, take a beat. You don't need to do that. And if. there's meetings that don't make sense, just like you did tonight, which was. great, just say no. It's okay. You know, we'll. figure it out.". And I do that, too. And I try to be a lot more purposeful. now. because it helps me then be more present. in the meetings that I need to be in. Yeah. Right? And rather than saying,

it's not the quantity of meetings that. I'm in, it's those quality of meeting. moments that I'm in. And I think people sometimes. like misinterpret like quantity for. productivity versus like value. And I'm much more like, "Okay, I'm going to do. I'm going to focus on quality, and it. may mean less, and that doesn't have to sacrifice my. impact." I was going to ask you, how. does it impact productivity? And I do think that we've convinced. ourselves that if I'm doing more, if. there's more on my schedule, if I'm.

jumping around, we've created our. definition of value. to be around busyness. Right. Yes. And we all feel we're more important, valuable, and it's subconscious again. You just think, "Oh, yeah, if I've got a. lot to do, then I must be doing. something.". Yeah. How do we start to shift that. conversation? What have you learned. about that? I know you interviewed some. amazing people as well, as you were. saying inside the book. What did you. learn about how we can reframe what we. believe makes us valuable?

Yeah, yeah. So, I had um so, two people. in particular. So, John Sculley, for. example, the former CEO of Apple. He talked about how in the book he was. chief listening officer. And I was like, "Really?". And he's like, "Yeah.". Like, "Steve asked that we make our own. business cards, and I wrote chief listening officer. And I sat there, and I was like, "Wow, that's. That was great. You listen. And so, cuz so often,

you know, you just start talking.". And he's like, "No, I became a lot more. purposeful. if I just listen first, said probably. less, but that impact was greater, cuz I heard. what was happening. And I thought that. was great." Yeah. I had Jack Rowe, who's. former CEO of Edna in the book. He came. over, and he said, "Sometimes you have to put yourself into. neutral.". And he's like, "And you have to give. yourself space, cuz you can't run at 100. miles an hour. And if you don't give yourself a little. bit of a break,

no matter what position you're in, you're going to find yourself uh upside. down, and you're not going to figure out. how to turn back up." Mhm. And I I. appreciated those conversations with. them, because they're a little bit more. old school in their approach. They they think we're a little bit more. in the middle now. And then there's a. younger generation, right, that's coming. up who thinks about things completely. different. It's been such a privilege to. be able to kind of talk to so many. different people Mhm. who are in that in.

that continuum, to kind of hear how. they're managing it, right? Mhm. Even like how you think about. things today, and how you manage all. that, right? It's just must be a lot. coming at you today from many different. angles, when they're like, "Jay, what do. you do?" Right? Yeah. And and I think for me, it's it is. the old cliché, but it's so true. Like, you are only as good as your team. And I do think being a leader means. taking care of your team. That's right. In one sense, I feel like that's all a. leader actually has to do is be the. coach, therapist, support system, or.

provide and bring those things in for. the team. And you almost become a coach. Right. And yes, you'll be strategic. Yes, you'll be a visionary. But a lot of it. is just. loving people and supporting people, I. find at least. I find like that's what. most of my time is taken up. 100%. doing because everyone has their. emotions. And as long as you have smart. people that you're working with, then those people are the people that. investing in them as humans.

Yeah. is allowing them to do what you. trust them to do. That's right. But the thing that's. holding them back is usually something. emotional or mental. Mhm. It's rarely professional that. people have challenges and I find it's. something they're going through in their. personal life. It's a mental block that. they have. Yeah. And if that doesn't get healed and. accessed in the workplace, that's going. to be the spanner in the works. Like, that's going to be the thing that. bottlenecks the process, creates. inefficiency, creates a lack of trust. That's right. That's the kind of stuff that gets in.

the way. Yeah. And and a lot of times, too, when. you talk to people, they have no idea. what's happening outside the workplace. Mhm. You know, but so much that happens. outside the workplace affects the. workplace. It's really important for companies, too, to have mental health support tools. for employees. So, when they need. things, people to talk to, you know, applications, whether they're Calm or. others, therapy, if they need it. If they just make those available and. known, that's another step in the. process. Yeah. So, that's why I always. tell people it's not just one thing.

It's kind of like a number of things you. have to put together because people may. take bits and pieces of each to make it. their own. But it kind of shows them when they need. it, it's there. Yeah. And a lot of times. people will go look for things on their. own. You know, they'll search and. they'll see if you got tools and what. companies. And I do find that you sometimes will. lose good people because you're not. supporting them in their journey. Yeah. And so the more you could be there for. them. and they know that. they become some of your most loyal,

most productive, most culture-bearing, you know, carrying the flag employees. Yeah. And you didn't have to tell them. to do it. They just kind of did it on. their own. Absolutely. And I feel like those often are the best. ones. And I and we have a lot of those uh and. I'm very and I just feel very privileged. that we have so many folks like that. that that they just care deeply and it's. personal for them. I am. my previous company I had started was a. caregiving company. And one thing I had noticed in that. company was that so many people that.

were caring for others. were suffering. Mhm. Right? They and. then they had to go to work. And people had no idea that they were. doing like five jobs. Caregiver, they were worrying about. their finances, they were trying to. figure out how they help people, and. then they had to go to work and and they. had a litany of things they had to go. do. And most people have no idea all. these things are going on in other. people's lives, right? Cuz sometimes we. just don't ask the question and cuz. we're so busy ourselves. Or sometimes we. don't want to ask the question cuz we're. so busy ourselves we can't take anything.

else on. But I just feel that if we are just more. aware. and we create space for employees and we. listen to what they have to say. Flexible work schedules. What are they. asking for? That's why I constantly poll. our employees as well. What do you value? And they'll tell us. And then if we have stuff that they. don't want we. put it away. I sometimes like, "Oh, all. my employees want this gym membership.". And then nobody uses it. And and they're like what I.

Just ask. Yeah. And I'm like, now I just. ask. Let's have our team go out and and. say, "Here are the top 10 things. What. do you want?" Yeah. And then we'll take. away a couple things that they don't. use, you know, and we'll try to ask that. almost every year. Totally. I I I can couldn't agree more. We I love gift giving. It's one of my. love languages, and you were so kind to. bring me a gift today, which is very. thoughtful, and very useful, and and. both of which I will use. And the reason. I'm saying that is. I love giving gifts, too.

And so, you know, over the years, when. it comes around the holidays, I love. getting gifts from my team. And for a long time, I'd always be. guessing, like what everyone wanted. And you assume that something's cool or. trending or whatever it may be, and then. you start to realize what you just said, people didn't really want that. Yeah. And then at one point, we were like, "Okay, well, then we won't give gifts. We'll just, you know, thank people." and. whatever else it was. But then we were. like, "No, but people like people like. it. Everyone enjoys it." And so it's so. funny. We've started polling over the.

last few years, like, what kind of gift. would everyone like? And the number one. answer this year was infrared masks. Like, so what you call it? Photobiomodulation. That was the number one request. Yeah, the the red light the red light. Yeah. So, that was the number one request. We're like, "Oh, easy. Now we know what. everyone wants. So, we're going to get. that because it's easier, rather than us. guessing." And and I agree that I do. think people inside of organizations. today want mental health tools. They. want meditation practices. They want. mindfulness opportunities and tools and.

apps and everything else. I do believe. there is a big demand for that. And I. think it's only growing because people. are feeling that if you don't have that, you can't have that conversation in the. workplace. I think this is the part that. I want companies and leaders to. understand. If you're not providing. tools to support people with their. mental health, they don't have a vehicle. to talk about it at work. That's right. it's available to everyone. and they see it come out in the. newsletter and the team's available and.

everyone knows about it, they can say, "Oh, yeah, did you see we're using Calm. now?" And you know, I've been doing this. one and which one have you been doing? And now it allows for connection and. conversation and community as opposed to. without it, someone may just never talk. about the fact that they've been. struggling to sleep for 7 days. 100%. Right? 100%. And And I And I find that. too amongst the younger generation. They just expect these things. Yeah. You know, and they're asking for. them. And they'll give up other things. along the way. Yeah. And so and they're. very vocal around it. Mhm. And we've.

seen it now in all industries. You know, we've seen it happen in. banking where people feel like, "Hey, you're not listening.". And. it it takes a moment where they have to. go to the press almost, right? It. shouldn't have to ever get there. Yeah. If they were listening. to those kids and listening to your. employees, then you've got a continuous feedback. loop. Yeah. More companies, the baseline. will be you have to have these services. going forward. And And I think over time then that will.

open up a dialogue. And I also think with CEOs today, I'll. tell you cuz it starts so much at the. top, if you start to have some of these. conversations and say, "Here's how I. think about it. Here's how you're being. vulnerable." That too opens up a. different conversation. Mhm. And then it that can just kind of. percolate within the company. And And then I think the whole thing. starts to move faster. Mhm. Right? And then we can start to get. more of into a conversation of like, "Okay, now how do we get you the right. care at the right time, when you need. it, however you need it?".

Cuz so much of the conversation we're. having right now is pretty basic in my. mind. And we just need to get farther along in. the conversation. Yeah, I think a lot of. people. will question listening to us going, "Well, how does mindfulness or. meditation actually help burnout? Or how. does it help stress?" So that's one. thing and I mean there's tons of signs. on that, but I think there's still So, I. want I want you to answer that. And the. second thing is, well, how does this. affect my productivity? Right? Like, how.

does it actually get people to do the. work that I need them to do? Sure. And And isn't this just a a. distraction or slows them down? Because. I know a lot of organizations just feel. like this sounds good in theory, but how. does it help? So, if we could talk about. how mindfulness and meditation, specifically the programs that exist on. Calm, how do they make sense for stress. and burnout? Then, how do they make. sense for productivity and performance? Yeah, I mean, I think I have both of. those. I'll start with the second one. first cuz it it it comes up a lot.

Mhm. And what I often tell people is. when I'll just use Calm as an example, more than half the people that use Calm. today come to us for sleep. And they're. having moments where they just can't. fall asleep. Most of that comes, as we. know, because they're sleeping next to. their their devices. The devices are. constantly beeping. They don't shut them. off. I talk about like it's hard, but, you know, I keep my phone outside my. bedroom. Not everyone does that. When I. travel, I don't do that. And sometimes it leads to, you know, not.

a. a good sleep. And we know when you have a number of. those days that start to compound, it could lead to irritability. It could. lead to not being as productive the next. day when you go to work cuz you're just. tired. Right? You couple that at times with. potentially bad eating habits or some. people drinking habits or other types of. habits that aren't And that doesn't. create And it creates kind of like what. I call negative behavior. I had that.

when I was younger cuz I didn't. understand some of these tools. And I just wish I had some of these. tools when I was younger cuz I didn't I. didn't do those things that created. positive behavior change. Mhm. Um when I was in banking, for. example, I And when I got stressed, I turned to smoking. And I was just a. kid and I was like smoking in the. stairwell of Solomon Brothers. I shouldn't have been smoking in the. stairwell. That's number one. I talked about this with our employees. saying, "Hey, I didn't have apps like.

Calm or tools to help me in the moment. I wish I did. I probably would have. turned to other things and understood. that's positive behavior that I could. turn to, not negative behavior.". Mhm. And if I have enough of that, then. it starts to kind of change the. pendulum. Because I then ended up on a. very slippery slope. You know, you're. smoking, you start to drink a little bit. more, then I'm eating more at odd hours, and then I try to go to sleep. And you. just know if you're trying to eat. Chinese food at 11:30 and you want to go.

to bed at 12:00 or 12:30, you're not. going to sleep well cuz there's just a. lot of stuff just sitting there, right? Keeping you awake. And so for me, it's. been this continuous kind of learning. And we talk about some of these things. and you know, I think in the work before. it's it's a little no different. I mean, cuz people got to shuttle the kids off. to school in the morning and you're. going to make breakfast, you got to do. all these things. So you you kind of. need good sleep at night. And it starts, I think, a lot there. And then during. the day, we need breaks.

People think and it's in the book that. you. that our brain has endless capacity. It's just not true. We don't have. endless capacity. You know, our brain, like everything else, needs to recharge. And if you can find ways to recharge, whether it's listening to you every day, uh congratulations on over 600 episodes. We were talking about 50 million streams. as our chief purpose officer, which I so.

grateful for because. there are times where. those 7 minutes for me where I listen to. you, whether it's in the car driving my. kids Uh, school, takes 10 minutes, uh some days it takes 30 with traffic. There There moments that I just cherish. or when I'm driving back alone. And it's it just helps me then as I. start to recenter myself to be more. productive during the day. Or during the. day, I take a short break and I know how. to recharge now, whether it's going.

outside, walking or others, and it makes. me so much more productive. Because what. I find is if I. work in a manner and I find myself. falling below 50%, 25% of my battery and. I just keep trying to power through, my. work gets It's not very good. Yeah. It's. embarrassingly bad, I would say, at. times. And no amount of AI is going to. make it better. Yeah. You know? It's. just not. Yeah. And so, I then have to kind of take a. step back.

and be like, "Okay, you're trending in. the wrong direction. Take a break." And I talk about this at. a company and with many other companies. that are out there today. And I know so. many employees I talk to resonate around. this. Yeah. Right? Cuz they just feel. it's an endless hamster wheel. For sure. For sure. Yeah, I was As you. were speaking, I was thinking about how. if you have a still mind, you actually. make quicker, better decisions. And if you have a stressed mind, you. actually make slower, worse decisions.

Yeah. And we think, "Oh, well, if I take. time out to be still, I'll lose time.". But actually, if you take time out to be. still, you'll gain. Yeah. because you make better decisions, they'll be more long-term, they won't be. rushed and haphazard, and they'll. actually be You'll be a better. communicator. I know for a fact that if. I'm stressed, I don't communicate as. clearly. Yeah. I can I can be a bit more like rushed. and, you know, kind of like let's hurry. this up and short.

Whereas if I'm rested and I'm still, then actually I'm able to formulate. ideas, I can be more tolerant, I can be. more patient, which are all the skills. you need. And so, taking out 7 minutes a. day doesn't make you slower, it actually. makes you faster and better. And And. something I pulled from your book, these. these stats were really fascinating for. me to read. So, 61% of people feel. expected to just get over stress. Yeah. That's unbelievable that 61% of.

people. feel like they're expected to just get. over stress. Yeah. It's just Why is that? When I was younger. and I didn't understand this. uh. when I was 14 years old and I think it. was much younger. I wrote about it in. the book that it was 14. I actually. think it happened when I was younger. I. just didn't I just don't recollect those. times. Mhm. When I got really stressed or nervous. and most of the time they're around like.

tests or speaking stuff or in front of. the class. I just started to get a tightness in my. chest. I would I would get shortness of. breath at times. I would sweat in my. hands. And I didn't really understand what was. happening. And I talked to my mom, you. know, and like a very traditional Korean. mother, she'd be like, "Just power. through it." And I'm like, "Okay, I'm. just going to power through it, right?". But she didn't know either what was. happening. And I don't blame her around. that. She just didn't understand in the. moment. You know, the reality is when. you think about your mental health.

it's not about you do, you know, and. it's not about powering through the. moment. It's For me, it's about powering up. You know, and it's And that's where the. battery analogy keeps coming back in. Yeah. And And I didn't understand some of. that. And then you cup And then I didn't. have the vocabulary. It wasn't really until I started getting. into health care that I started to. understand, "Oh, wow, this is what you. were going through. You've been able to kind of manage it. and through some unhealthy behaviors at. times. And now you are doing it through.

healthy behaviors. But the vocabulary has changed, right? And you have a better command of. that vocabulary. So, you know how to. talk about it now, where I didn't know. how to talk about it then. Yeah. And so, I do think so much of the the population. today is about powering through it. And. I do think a lot of the population and I. would say more in countries like Korea. or Asia, even though mental health is the most. approachable it's ever been, like in the. States, it's not really approachable there. Mhm.

You know, and and that does make me sad. at times when I go back home. My parents. moved back to Korea, they live there. I. want to talk about these things with. them and it's just not it's not easy for. them to talk about, right? I don't know. how it was for you. Did you talk about. this when you were a kid with your. so interesting what you were saying. about your experiences of stress growing. up. Mine were the same and they didn't. know what it was either. So, I would. It's the same things. Exams, anything. high performance related. I'd feel like. my chest got tighter, my heart felt like.

it wasn't beating the same. I'd get, you. know, sweaty palms. And I remember going. to the doctors and they'd wire me up. with these monitors, like old school. monitors with like these big things. I'd. have to wear it for 24 hours and I'd go. back and they'd be like, "Oh, he's. fine.". And I'd be like, "But Mom, I'm not fine. Like there's something I'm feeling." And. there was no word for it. So, I I can. very much relate. And again, my mom. didn't know what it was either. And she. was trying her best to help. But we couldn't figure it out. And so, I. got on with it and and I always have.

And then I was thankful enough to learn. mindfulness and meditation many years. later that have been my core practices. And now, it's not that I don't get. nervous before I'm going on stage or a. podcast. I still do, but I know what to. do. And so, I have my breath work. I. know what I have to lock into. It's not. that I don't experience those emotions. anymore. But I agree, even in a South. Asian family, like I don't think that. vulnerability was normal from parents. It wasn't common for uncles and aunts to.

be that way. And so it created a culture. of always putting your best foot. forward, always somewhat being. performative. That's right. And I think I never subscribed to that. So I started very early on rebelling and. just. Good for you. being myself. And I wish I'd done that. Yeah, and I was just I'm just I started. breaking the rules early on that. And. I'm grateful that I did, but now I. realize it wasn't that I was breaking. the rules. I was just expressing my. discomfort with having to put up a face.

or a mask on when everything wasn't. okay. Yeah. And and I think that's hard for. people to do today where I read another. stat that said 33% of people feel too. overwhelmed by daily stress to think. ahead. Yeah. Like when you think about that, it's like, gosh, like, you know, that's. what people are under. Mhm. What are some of the. get that, right? that. You just forget it. I mean, you. think about those numbers, that's. whether it's 2/3 or 1/3 of all people.

feeling this way. And you start to realize, well, that's. heavy, you know? And if you were in a. room and three out of 10 or six out of. 10 are feeling a certain way, you start. to realize there's more That's just why. with corporations, I think it's so. important that they can take leadership. positions. Mhm. Again, I always go back to the top on. some of these things because. if we're not comfortable being. vulnerable. And if we're not comfortable making sure. their HR teams have the tools to talk.

about this with employees, that we don't. support some of these initiatives. We're kind of in a place where we're. saying, "Oh, we don't believe some of. those stats." But the stats are there. and growing. Mhm. Right? And And yes, there's you know, there's life things. that are happening, but technology is. moving so fast on the other side. Mhm. Right? I mean, we are definitely in an. era right now where kids have grown up. with their smartphones. They act. differently than uh you know, when I. grew up or when you grew up. It's just.

different. We and they grew up with this. technology. They're very comfortable. with it. The speed of it which is is. coming. And so and then there's the weight of. what's happening just in life around. them. And so some of these things even at the. company level which are interesting and. you don't do this is like and I found. this a little bit with myself. I'll just. tell you on a personal front. front. we're taught to play it very safe. And I think that's an important thing, too. I'll tell you a lot of people miss. is that you know, you don't want to say. the wrong thing. So, you're not going to.

talk about your own vulnerability. because that's not playing it down the. fairway. Mhm. You kind of want to be boring. I'll. be frank with you for a lot of leaders. Not all leaders which we know. There's a. couple of them that are quite uh but for. most leaders when you go out there. they're media trained to be right down. the fairway. And what I love when I listen and watch. your podcast it's so authentic. It's so. real. It's so safe for all the people. that listen. And then and it just shows, right? With.

how many people are tuning in every day, right? And listening to you and doing. what I did. It's like I'll listen to. somebody and then I'll go back to that. I'll be like, oh, I remember that. I'm. going to go back to that. And it's just because. we just play it safe in a lot of places. today. And you don't want to say the. wrong thing. Yeah. And I think it's okay. You know, like even if I was here with you today. and maybe something and I didn't say the. right thing today. I'm in a space where I feel so safe with. you right now. I just want to be myself. and not everything's going to be.

perfect. Absolutely. Right? And and that's kind of part of. life and I've started to accept that. And I've become and a much more. vulnerable with my own employees to be. like, hey, this is okay. And because of that in the last couple. of years, we're stronger. Mhm. We're. stronger as a company. We just had a board meeting and they're. like, "Wow, this is great." Everyone's. like, "Yes, we're doing much better.". But I think because we're developing and. and really building on the right. culture, we're asking the right. questions or and we want to lead by.

example. Yeah. Right? What was something. you shared with them that you feel was. challenging, uncomfortable, that that. led to that breakthrough? Yeah, I um in. the last one that you were at, I I did. talk about my smoking as a kid. Mhm. I. talked about me being overweight as a. child, dealing with that, that. insecurity. Um I've always had a struggle with food. I love french fries. I'm just going to. Yeah. I I guess I'm telling all I love.

ice cream. And I think sometimes and I have a. really, no matter what I try to do diet. wise, I if you put some fries in front of me, I'm going to eat them. Uh if I if you put some ice cream in. front of me and someone my kids are. having I'm I'm going to eat some of. that, too. And my kids are like, "Dad, I. thought you're like full." I was like, "I was.". All right. So, I struggle with that. I. know when I'm a little bit stressed, I'm. a little bit of a binge eater as well. I.

try to obviously develop a lot of. healthy habits also around how to be. healthier. And so, I do I do exercise a. lot more. But some of those things are hard just. to get rid of. You know, it's it's more. like you're going to have to live with. it and it's how you live with it. That's. like that comment about stress. You're. never going to have a stress-free. workplace. Yeah. But you got to figure out how you just. have more healthy stress, right? How you. stress rather than distress. Yeah. What's what's the most common thing you. hear from leaders that they're. struggling with in their organizations.

when it comes to stress and teams'. mental health? I I think a lot of. leaders today struggle with. as I spoke to you about vulnerability. and how you gave the story about. vulnerability. That story plays over over and over. again. Wow. You know, leaders struggle. with how to be vulnerable. And I think it's I think it's. generational on a personal level. I. think the new leaders that are going to. rise, the ones in their 20s, are going. to have no problem. All right? Because when you look at.

social media today and a lot of the. younger generation, they talk about. their mental stress and they talk about. their mental health. and they're very open about it. Now, again, they may overuse it or, you. know, but at least they're having a. conversation around it. I think, you know, with other leaders. today, when I talk to them, they're just like, "Hey, is it a sign of. weakness like you brought up? And is it going to be used against me? Yeah. Is someone going to write about it. and say I'm too weak? Is the board going. to think I'm weak as a leader?".

And I think that is the That's. ultimately also a fail of corporate. stewardship because they have to also. look after your mental health, Mhm. you. know? And so, when I'm, you know, I'm. fortunate to be on the board of Calm. today, but if I wasn't CEO, I would be asking that CEO, "Hey, how. are you doing? How are you holding up? Let's not talk. about the numbers today.". You know, I find it really effective. when I meet with CEOs and they ask for. some coaching,

we don't talk about any numbers. We don't talk about the metrics. We just talk about life. And we'll eventually go to that later, but I think when we start with more of a. trusting place where we can understand. what's happening around you, then I can be much more thoughtful in. the type of advice I give. But this also means I have to create the. space and the time to do it. So, not. everyone has that, right? And that's where I think it's just. really important to be really. intentional, right? Be really purposeful. in these conversations. Yeah, I think.

one of the reasons why we. struggle to recharge is because when. your phone's running out of battery, there's only one type of Well, we're. also bad at this. There's only meant to. be one type of charger. Now, I've seen. people charge their phone with their Mac. charger. Right, right, right. You're destroying. your phone. Right? You'd see it being. charged with the iPad charger. Like, but. the point is there's one charger. Yeah. And I think when it comes to life, sleep is a charger,

meditation and mindfulness. 100%. food is a charger, working out is. a charger, and people you love, being. around good relationships, are a. charger. And if everyone, while you're listening. to this, if you could figure out the. most common times you feel. at 1%, 5%, 10%, 20%, and figure out. what's the charge you need for that. Well said. Right? Like, that's what I. think we need to do. Like, I'll give an. example. I I went to an event the other. day, and I had to fly out of town and.

come back into town. I got back at like. 4:00 a.m. Oh. And I worked out the next day, and I. felt so weak. because I hadn't slept well. And I hadn't. eaten well. And so, at that point, I'm. glad I still worked out because I needed. it, but I told told my trainer I had to. get a bit of a easier workout because I. didn't want to push myself when I felt. weak. But it's like it takes little. adjustments. of figuring out what charge you need. right now. Like, now, I've had a busy. week, had a busy weekend. This weekend,

I know that recharge means I need no. social plans. Like, that's what's going. to recharge me. And so, I wish everyone. could just write down while you're. listening to this and while you're. reading David's book, Recharge, you. write down what are the most common. experiences you feel when you feel. drained, when you feel overwhelmed, when. you feel burnt out, and what is your. charger? So that you don't have to think. about it in the moment, cuz when you're. trying to figure it out in the moment, that's when you get more overwhelmed. Like, I know before I go on stage, I. always practice breath work. If I've had. a couple of late nights, I know sleep is.

the only chance that's going to solve. it. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Speaking of that cuz you've talked. about, you know, certain rituals. Are. there certain things that you do every. day like religion every day that you. just do? Yeah, I I kind of do what I. call like what I feel is like a good. 80/20. So like I know 5 days out of the. 7 days a week I'm working out. Mhm. 5 days out of 7 I'm meditating. before 9:00 a.m. And then the other two would be. meditating after 9:00 a.m. And I like.

that balance that I have. Uh gratitude. is something I'm practicing every single. day. But yeah, it's such an important one I. think. We do something with my team that. I love. Every Friday we'll do a weekly. win. Mhm. And everyone's encouraged to. share what they believe is their win. And sometimes what's amazing about this. activity is you feel it will always be. like, "Oh, we had so-and-so on the. podcast." Or we won so-and-so award or. and it isn't. It's actually these little.

things that people are doing behind the. scenes. Yeah. that are not like these grand wins. externally. Yeah. And they believe that. that's been their success. And I think. it's a really great way to actually get. to know each other because you get to. see what people value as success. Yeah, 100%. And you get to understand what people. see as value in the work they do. Whereas we just assume that of course if. there's a big quarter then everyone. should be excited and it's like, "Well, maybe not." Because that's not what they. equate as their personal success and.

contribution. And so doing the weekly. wins on Fridays one of my favorite. things to do with my team. I love that. like 30 minutes to do. And everyone just. goes around my core team and just shares. what was their weekly win. It's huge. love that. I am I sometimes start my. beginning of the week staff meetings. with like, "How was your weekend? Just. tell us something that happened. personal.". You know, I also find sometimes we we. get into all the details without getting. to know one another. Yeah. You know, and I find a lot. a lot of times teams don't work well. They can work better together when.

they're a little bit more personal with. one another. And it may it doesn't have. to be deep. It could just be like, "Hey, what what did you do?" Some people will. say, "I went on a hike. I, you know, went to my kids game or, you know, I. went I traveled somewhere. or binge-watched a show." And we're all. like, "What show? What's your favorite. show?" or something. And we just get to. learn something a little bit more. personal about the individual. And then. it's less about "Oh, did you hand in. that PRD?" It's not that, right? It's. just it's more personal. Yeah. And I think and by you just doing. your wins every week, you know, how I.

just I love that. Yeah. I I think about. it is very simple. I think about it like. this. Like, you're going to spend a. third of your life at work. Yeah. Learn to get along with your. colleagues. Yeah. Learn to build relationships with. the people you spend 9 hours a day with. You're going to spend a third of your. life with these people. You should. actually really get to know them. Yeah. You should be able to laugh with them. It would be wonderful if you could open. your heart with them. When we kind of. go, "Well, work's this thing over here.

and I save all of that for home." you're. basically saying that 30% of your life. you'll never experience joy, you'll. never experience connection. And I don't. think that's the world we want anymore. I think we need a world where work can. be meaningful and thoughtful and. purposeful. And again, going back to. what you said, it's not that it'll ever. be stress-free. That's right. It's not that it's ever going to be. perfect or this utopia or this beautiful. place where everything's amazing. But I. think one of the things we don't realize. is that a lack of productivity stems.

from a lack of trust. Yeah. When you have trust and you have. interpersonal connection, things move. faster. People are not gatekeeping, no. one's trying to be a bottleneck, no. one's looking out for how they can be. top dog. There's this feeling of we're. all going to win together. And I think. if leaders can start to figure out what. that culture is, then people will achieve so much more. and they'll be happier. I think, you. know, one of my I would hate to. be at the top of a hill with the team.

and three people like gave up along the. way, two people told me they never want. to come back. Like. It's an I I was I was going to ask you, you've had so much business success. before Calm, you know, at Calm. Like, walk us through how your views have. changed of. recharging and recharging your team. It's It's It's actually interesting. I. used to be one of the youngest execs in. the room and now I'm the oldest person. in the room. Uh. I think when I was younger, I felt that I had to be in every. decision process. Mhm.

And that's a little bit of like, oh, I'm. productive cuz I got my hands in. everything. And it was probably the opposite. I was. probably causing more stress and less. productivity on a person and I realized. that later. that it's it's not the number of. meetings or decisions you're making. It's not the quantity, it's the quality. of those decisions and I keep going. back, always the quality of. decision-making. What is a quality. decision? Let's Let's define that. Yeah, that's that's great. Yeah. So, like, it's it's things that you feel.

that where you sit can move the for me, can move the business forward in the. most meaningful manner. So, sometimes it. could be helping teams unlock a product. decision. Sometimes could be helping. teams with things that partnerships that. may move it forward. Other times it may. mean things around culture or HR. But, it's really being intentional in. terms of the types of decisions you're. making and where you're spending your. time. It's not being in every decision with. everybody because ultimately, they have. to make decisions, too. One thing we've.

been doing now that I feel that has. really brought the company closer. together. is uh we did this retreat where it. wasn't just the leadership team. We. brought many different people together. and I said, you guys come up with the. company strategy. And they were like, and this woman and they were like, what? And I'm like, they're like, don't you have it? My. younger self would have been like, here. it is. I was like, no, you do it. And I'll tell you, it was so much better.

than what I was thinking. And it just reminded me again, you hire all these smart people, you. take all these time vetting them, doing. reference checks, let them do their job. Give them a chance. If it was a sports. analogy to shoot the ball, give them a. chance to play. You know? Don't feel. like you're keeping them on the bench. the whole time and you have to do. everything. And give them a shot. And I I do that a. lot more now. I'm much more intentional.

with it now. It was great. We rolled it. out to the company at that offsite you. were at. People came away and said it. was the most inspiring offsite. And they. were like, you know, that was great. I. said, I didn't do it. They did it. It. came from the team. And I think it felt so much more. meaningful to to them because it came. from them. Mhm. And it was so much more. spot on. And we and and really what it. was around was. we've talked about trying to make the. world healthier and happier. We've tried. we've talked about as a company trying. to be with you every step of the way in.

your mental journey. And this was really around how to become. how do we become the most impactful. consumer mental health company in the. world. And. when I sat back and said, that's what we. want to become, and the team had kind of. been the one synthesizing it, then everyone started mobilizing against. it on their own. And I and I and they had thought about. things that I never even thought about. Because I'm just too far sometimes away. from the details.

And then now I I've seen us accelerate. And I know that motion and muscle can be. repeated. Mhm. Right? And you can bring. it to other companies regardless of. size. And I think sometimes as companies get. larger, and I've had the fortune of. starting my own company where it's like. three of us and then it grows to 30. whatever 300. and then to thousands. And then I've had the fortune of of. joining companies later where it's. thousands and it becomes hundreds of. thousands. Ultimately that culture is your bedrock. You know, whether or not how many people.

you stack on top of it, what you start. to set as your foundation will percolate. amongst the entire company. And if you don't do that the right way. and if you're not thought, then you may. not get the results that you're happy. with, right? And you may create more. stressful environments that you just. unintentionally didn't think about. Mhm. And that's where I I really. appreciate about when leaders come. around, they talk about being more. thoughtful in their decision-making. process, being more vulnerable, being. more open, really thinking about. employees' mental health,

but then not just talking about it, but. then really acting upon it. Totally. And if you can do that a little. bit year after year, right? You can really create a special. special culture and I think they'll do. special things. Absolutely. David, it's been such a joy talking to. you today. I really enjoyed our dialogue. around recharging and you know, I'm so. grateful for the work you're doing at. Calm because I remember being a. analyst at Accenture and I was tasked.

were really good. I was I was okay. I. was tasked with teaching meditation in. my spare time and mindfulness in my. spare time at the company and I would. travel around and I would do lunch time. and after work sessions and I couldn't. scale myself. But now thanks to Calm, uh not only am I able to scale myself to. more people, but we're able to introduce. people to so many amazing hosts and. narrators that we have on Calm. And I. think inside an organization. you no longer need someone running.

around the organization physically. trying to serve lots of people. You. actually have the ability for everyone. to tune in. And we we end every On Purpose episode. with a final five. These questions have. to be answered in one word to one. sentence maximum. So, David Code, these. are your final five. The first question. is, what is the best recharge advice. you've ever heard in your life? To be more present. Mhm. I I recognize. at times that I've been there, but not.

really. And so, you are you do so good at this. where you're just so present. Whether. it's one person or hundreds or. thousands, I've seen it. I've been in. your auditoriums where you've tried and. everyone feels your presence. And so, presence. I like that answer. Not the part about me, you're very kind, but the because I don't think we realize. how draining it is when you're not. present. And you gave that great analogy. earlier when you have lots of tabs and. apps open. Yeah. That's when we drain. our battery. That's right. And so, so many of us are.

draining our battery by thinking, "Oh, I'm here right now with David, but. actually my mind's over there, I'll get. more done." And you're actually. depleting your battery. So, it's a great. answer. Uh second question, what is the. worst advice you've ever heard about. recharging yourself? Sorry, Mom, cuz she's going to be. listening and watching. Uh and my mom I love my mom, so I'm. going to start with that. And she's. given me lots of great advice. But this probably was the worst advice. she gave me as a child, which was to. power through.

And it's not about powering through, it's really about powering up. Mhm. And. she didn't know, you know, but you know, Mom, I think it was not about powering. through. Question number three, what's your three. favorite ways to power up? So, I have. rituals like you. And my rituals in the morning, uh when I. wake up, I don't look at my phone right. away. I actually go downstairs, I start the. coffee. I open the window. And uh I walk outside and I take three. breaths.

And it's been something I've been very. intentional about doing. If I'm. traveling, I try to open the window, you. know, wherever it may be, if you're in. apartment or something. That process starts to center me. The second I I do is I do a lot of. walking meetings. And so, I'm a big fan of like trying to break. things up that help me recharge. So, people give me energy. I would say going. outside, breathing, people give me. energy. And then lastly, I think similar. to yourself, I love to exercise as well, and I've.

become a lot better at keeping a steady. schedule around it. And even. someone said this to me the other day, they said, "Do something every day.". Right? And and I'm like, great. I'm. going to do something every day. And I'm going to be really intentional. about it and just keep at it. Uh some. days I'll go to the gym, some days I'll. do something at home, it'll be really. quick. Um but exercise as well. I love. that. Question number four, what are. your three favorite ways to power down? I turn. everything off, meaning the following.

So, it won't be just putting my phone. and turning it over, cuz I don't think. sometimes that's enough. I'll just be like, you know what? I'm. kind of done. I wanted to ask you earlier, cuz I'm. curious, if you had a day and you didn't use your. phone, social media, what does that day. look like for you? Those are the best. days. Doesn't happen very often. I've definitely tried really hard. One. thing I've really focused on is when me. and my wife are together in the evening. for dinner, and then if we're watching a. show or something, is not bringing the.

phone to those two things. Because I. found myself a lot of the time like. finishing off last emails, messaging. while we're having dinner. And then when. you're watching a show, you're. distracted. And then you watch your your. partner get distracted. And then you're. like mad at them for getting distracted. But then when they put their phone down, you've got yours up and they're mad at. you for getting distracted. I was like, what are we doing here? Yeah. And I was. starting to notice just my attention. span just dropping. I've I've noticed. that a lot in the last 12 months more. than any time before and I've realized.

so much of it is because of just the. speed of consumption. So now it's not. even that we're consuming a lot, we're. consuming a lot at a really fast rate. And so you're just making it easier for. your mind to get two seconds of. everything. And so for me, I try make my. weekends very phone-free because. weekdays I am on my phone. I've also found that even when I'm with. my team, if I can have my laptop in the. room but my laptop's not connected to. messaging apps and then my phone's not.

in the room, I actually find I'm better. with my team. So I can still do email, I. can still do work on my laptop but it's. not wired up to WhatsApp, it's not wired. up to text message. I don't need it. And. so I've been trying to leave my phone. actually out of my hand when I'm not. traveling. If I'm going out for work or. driving, of course I need my phone but. if I'm in the office, I don't need my phone on me in meetings. or in between meetings actually. And all of this is stuff I'm still. working on too because I find myself go.

through ups and downs with it. There are times when I'm brilliant at. it. I also follow you, I don't keep my. phone in my bedroom, don't look at it. first thing in the morning. But I also have days where I break that. completely when I'm traveling and so. I don't want to make anyone feel like. I've got it down or perfect cuz I. haven't. And I think it's almost like. peaks and troughs. There's always a a. good day and a bad week and a good week. and a bad day. That's brilliant. That's brilliant. Uh fifth and final question to David. Coe, if you could create one law that.

everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Kids have to go to gym five days and. they know there's physical exercise and. it's just kind of like it's just. understood. Why can't we take some of that time for. children to also better understand their. own mental health. and to teach them about their mental. health because we know so much of this. starts early just like it started with. myself at 14. If I had that vocabulary. at 14, I probably would have developed. better kind of healthy behaviors at 14.

and did that as I turned into a young. adult. So, I would love to take a little. bit of time. Doesn't have to be all the. time. Could be a carve outs, maybe once, twice, three times a week. where we educate our children and check. up on them on their mental health or. their battery and ask them the question. I love that. What a great little that. would that would have a big impact on. the world. The book is called recharge. Got interviews with everyone from. Randall Park to Macklemore. It's. a brilliant book, so fascinating. I love. it. I love the format. I love the. format. The format's fantastic. Like you.

sat down with experts, with rappers, with rebels, innovators, thought leaders. and you put together this beautiful book. called recharge. David, I'm so grateful. that you put it together. I'm so. grateful we connected. Yeah, and I'm and thank you for taking. the time having me here. Thank you for. talking about the book. It's it's it's. something I'm so proud of. Uh I hope. people people get some you know, really. get something out of it. We talked to a. lot of different folks. Like you said, uh like Randall who's you. know, you know as well and many other.

folks there. Delilah. And they just talked about so many. amazing things. And I um I was really. touched by talking to each and every one. of them. I was honored to hear their. stories. And it just made me a better person. It. also has helped me in my mental health. journey and I hope it helps some other. people as well. David, thank you so. much. Is there anything I didn't ask you. that you really want to touch on? Something that's on your heart or mind. that's calling for you to share? I'd. love for you to share it. You never. asked me how my battery is. How's your battery?

I I would tell you my battery is at 100. over 100% cuz I got to spend time with. you. And you're too kind. No, no. And. and I'll tell you. conversations like this just recharge. and energize me. I I love the fact that we got to sit I. I've loved the fact that I got to know. you personally and professionally. I'm. so grateful for our friendship, your. mentorship, your words of wisdom. I know how many millions of people you. affect every day. I mean, over 50. million people on Calm, the entire. employee base of Calm,

uh. really just uh I can't tell you the. impact you've made both uh on us on a. personal and professional front. So, thank you. I want to ask you, how's your battery? Do you know what? I and I'm not just. saying this cuz you're here and I and I. really do mean it. You recharged my. battery, too. Like this conversation is. I'd say before you came in today, I was probably at like a 60. Yeah. I've. had a lot of social events in the past. couple of weeks. Just we had Diwali, which is our. Yes. beautiful festival every year. We had.

There was just so much going on and all. good stuff. All stuff I wanted to go to. Yeah. But I'm very disciplined about my. sleep all year round. And at this time. of year, I kind of let go a little bit. because there are so many wonderful. events that I get invited. And so I've been feeling a bit And as. soon as you came in, you took me from a. 60 to a 95 easily. And honestly, it's this conversation. because it felt so real, so authentic, so genuine. I felt like again, you were. really present. And I think that's what.

we don't realize. When you're present. with someone, you're charging them up. Yeah. while you're being charged. And. that's such a superpower that often we. think, oh, if I'm charging someone else. up, I'm losing energy. Mhm. But that's not true. If you're. charging someone else else up by being. present, you're getting charged up and. so are they. And we've both felt that. today. And I and I genuinely felt that. today. And honestly, Calm has just been. such a brilliant partner. It's the team. I love working with every day, whether.

it's the content team, the team that we work with in the. studio, the team that I get to see once. a year, the leadership. Everyone walks. the talk there and it's it's so. impressive to me Thank you. because I felt it from the moment I. started doing zooms and meetings with. everyone at Calm and it's it's. remarkable what you're all doing and I I. can't wait to be a part of the future. So, congratulations and it's just the. beginning. I think we're just we're just. getting started. So, I appreciate it. Thank you, Jay. David. Thanks for having me on again. so much. If this year you're trying to live.

longer, live happier, live healthier, go. and check out my conversation with the. world's biggest longevity doctor, Peter. Attia, on how to slow down aging and why. your emotional health is directly. impacting your physical health. Acknowledge that there is surprisingly. little known about the relationship. between nutrition and health and people. are going to be shocked to hear that cuz. I think most people think the exact. opposite.