The One Most Parents Think Is Best (According to Science) | Dr. Daniel Amen

You do not solve all of your children's. problems. That's the heart of love and. logic. It's you want kids to make. mistakes. And you want them to pay the. consequences. So, they learn. Before we jump into this episode, I'd. like to invite you to join this. community to hear more interviews that. will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I want you to do is. click on the subscribe button. I love. your support. It's incredible to see all. your comments and we're just getting.

started. I can't wait to go on this. journey with you. Thank you so much for. subscribing. It means the world to me. The number one health and wellness. podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one and only Jay Shetty. You talk about mentally strong kids live. by clearly defined goals. And I was thinking about that. I was. thinking, how do you set a goal for a. kid? And at what age does a goal become.

real? Well, the goal starts with parents. What kind of dad or mom do I want to be? And what kind of children do I want to. raise? So, in raising mentally strong. kids, I mean, the first principle is you. need to be mentally strong. Right? You. have to model the message. At Amen. Clinics, our first core value is. authenticity. And.

what what does that mean to be mentally. strong? Well, the first principle is. clarity. It is you want to know. So, when I was growing up, my mom was great. She was present, but there were way too. many of us. There were seven. I'm third, means irrelevant. At least that's what I thought. You know, Prince Harry's book Spare. Well, in a Lebanese family, the oldest. son is golden. And the second son's.

irrelevant. Now, there's huge upside to. irrelevance, which means I can do. anything I want. But my mom was present. and fun and playful and strict. Uh all good qualities. My dad was gone. And so when I'm thinking about what kind. of parent do I want to be is I want to. be present. Uh because that caused a lot. of bitterness in my life. And if you.

read sort of the latest neuroscience on. childbearing, attachment is so important. to prevent. mental illness or mental health. problems. And so if I want to be. present, then that leads to the second. principle, which is bonding, which is. connection. And how do you connect? And. too many parents get that wrong. And. like, oh, well, let me solve all of my.

child's problems, which creates. entitlement and disaster. But the first. one. is what do you want? And I think it's a. great question for kids when they're 6. or 7, what do you want in our relationship? Like I treat a lot of difficult kids. And one of my favorite questions to. parents, how many times out of 10 when you ask. this child to do something, will they do.

it the first time without arguing or. fighting? And. seven is the average for healthy kids. So very few kids do something every. time, right? But for the kids who see. me, it's zero or less than three. And when I asked the children about. this, 7 8 9, I'm like, "Is that your. goal to make your mother cry?" And like,

"No.". And I'm like, "Why do you do it?". "I don't know." And the fact is they. don't know because it's not will driven. It's brain driven. And that one concept all by itself, on top of which, if child doesn't do what you ask them to. do, and you ignore it, or you just repeat. it, what you're doing is teaching them. to do that. And the brain is lazy.

So, um, this is going to be a fun. conversation. How about the people that would say that. that may make children obedient, but it. doesn't make them free thinkers, or it. doesn't make them. independently thoughtful. I think we. sometimes feel like these two things. work against each other, right? Like if. we feel where like they listen. everything we say, and they do what we. say, then how do they build up their own. sense of identity? How How does that. work? Well, that's totally in the book on how. to do that. And that is you do not solve.

all of your children's problems. Uh. that's the heart of love and logic. It's. you want kids to make mistakes, and you want them to pay the. consequences. So, they learn. agency. It's such a important word in. lives. Um, so I have six children. Three. of them are adopted. And Chloe, um, who's now 20,

she's a bit of a hellion. And uh. argumentative, oppositional, and I'm a. child psychiatrist. And. Chloe was two when Tana and I met. And. I'm like, "Tana, you've done second. grade.". But they would like go at it. in a bad way for homework for like a. couple of hours. And I'm like and then. Tana got a program. Uh I co-wrote the book with Charles Fay,

who's president of the Love and Logic. Institute. So she got parenting with. Love and Logic and then took everything. they ever created. One night when it. finally clicked that I've done second. grade, she told Chloe, she'd never again ask. her to do her homework. She said, "Hey, I've done second grade. This is on you. And if you're okay with the consequences. of not doing your homework,

Mrs. Main core teacher will be mad at. you. You won't go out to recess. And if. you really decide you're not going to do. it, you'll make new friends when you repeat. second grade.". That was that. epiphany moment. Chloe got upset and. said, "I never said I wasn't going to do. my homework. I'm just not going to do it. now." She stormed off. 20 minutes later. she came back. No one ever asked her to. do her homework again. She's going to. graduate with a business degree from. Chapman University. She's bright. She's.

independent. She has agency. She's a. hard worker and a free thinker. because she couldn't push against her. mother to solve her problems. She had to figure it out with, of. course, appropriate support. And oh by. the way, to really push on this idea, if Chloe forgot her homework, there's no. way her mother would bring it to school. Cuz then she'd only forget it once. Right? If she forgot her homework and we.

brought it to school, we'd always be. bringing her homework to school. If it. was cold out and she forgot to bring a. sweater, nobody's bringing a sweater. If. she forgot her lunch, nobody's bringing. her lunch. We're teaching her probably. the most important skill of mentally. strong people. I'm responsible for my life. And if. there are consequences, I'm going to pay it. And you say you. want them to make. mistakes when the consequences are. affordable.

What age is that at? Is that at a. particular age or is there a time when. Like four, five, six. You know, earlier the better. And of. course, you're always putting, you know, think of bowling alley, you're putting. bumper guards up. to protect them. But. when I was a young parent, I think my self-esteem wasn't great. And. I would get self-esteem by solving my. children's problems. And what I realized.

is I was robbing them of their. self-esteem. Because where do we get. self-esteem? There's this great study. out of Harvard where they followed. 454. inner-city Boston school kids. for 70 years. I mean, think about that. I mean, one of the longest longevity studies. ever done. And they looked at what was. going, you know, with mental illness,

with addiction, with self-esteem. And the only thing that correlated with. self-esteem was whether or not you. worked as a child. Whether or not you. had responsibility at home, you had a. paper route, you had an outside job. When I was 10 years old, I went to work. cuz my dad owned grocery stores. And. work is good. But for people who are. affluent, who have help at home, and. everything is done for the child, you're.

really setting the child up for. struggles in their life because they. won't develop a sense of agency. That's so interesting hearing that. I've. always felt that I started doing I was a. paper boy when I was 14 years old. And I. remember going around the local streets. and delivering the papers and it was. raining and it was, you know, at some. time of the year in England it would. snow during the Christmas period and it. was hard as cuz I'm pulling this like, you know, this uh trolley we call it. I. don't know what you'd call it here, but. pulling this cart that has all the. newspapers stacked in it.

And then I worked in re And then I. worked in a grocery store and then I. worked in retail. And so I've been. working ever since I was 14 years old. and I couldn't agree with you more. I. learned so many interesting skills. I. developed so many amazing habits because. you had to in order to do it and that. resonates so strongly with me. How do. you get comfortable watching your child. be uncomfortable? Because I can imagine. that's the biggest challenge, right? As. a parent who loves, adores, cares for. this child, doesn't want it to be cold,

doesn't want the child to be late for. school, doesn't want the child to. perform poorly. Your ego is somewhat. attached to the child's ego and success. level. How do you get comfortable. watching your child be uncomfortable in. a non. unemotional way and not in a insensitive. way? So, you have to have the big picture in mind. and the long game in mind. What do I. want? What kind of parent do I want to. be? Effective, present.

What kind of child do I want to raise? Independent, competent, strong. Um if I. do too much, I'm robbing them of their. self-esteem, of their sense of. responsibility and agency. And that's a. disaster you just don't want. And you. need to see it a- ahead of time and. that's why, you know, the first. principle is know what you want. And. always ask your kids, "So, what's the.

goal for this year? What do you want, right? It's not you're not telling them. their goal. I mean, an example, when I. turned 18, uh it's the first time I. could vote, and my dad told me if I. voted for Senator McGovern, the country. would go to hell. So, 1972, Richard. Nixon is running for re-election. He's a. very popular president, even though. it'll turn out to be a disaster, against. Senator McGovern.

And. I'm 18, and I don't have a relationship. with my dad. I mean, we're sort of. mostly mad at each other. He's trying to. have influence on me, but because we. don't have a relationship, I'd just assume piss him off. Right now, it wasn't my conscious thought, but I'd. just assume piss him off. And I voted. for McGovern, and the country went to. hell, but it had nothing to do with. McGovern. It was all Nixon and. Watergate, and so on. But it was that. lack of relationship.

And. if people do what I talk about in the. book, you have more influence. with them. And that leads to So, the. first principle is goal setting. The. second one is bonding. It's attachment. If you want to have influence with your. children, if you want them to seriously. consider your values, you have to be connected with them.

And what does that take? Time. Like actual physical time, where you're. not on your phone, but you put the phone away, and you. spend 20 minutes a day with the child. So, there's an exercise I talk about in. the book that I love so much, that. you know, all the things I've. recommended to my patients over the last. 45 years. When I decided to be a. psychiatrist 45 years ago. Special time. It's magic. And.

20 minutes a day, do something with your. child child wants to do. that's reasonable you can do in 20. minutes so it's like not take me to. Nordstrom's. And during that time, no. commands, no. questions, no directions. It's just. time. to be together. And it's money in the relational bank. And I remember when I first figured this. out. my literary agent.

had a child later in life. We were. talking on the phone and he's like my. daughter Lara doesn't want to have. anything to do with me. And she's two. And he said that's like a girl thing, right? A mother-daughter thing. They. don't want anything. I'm like, no Carl, you're ignoring her. What? What do you. mean I'm ignoring? I'm like, you're. ignoring her. Do this. And he said that won't work. I'm like, oh great. You represent an. idiot. My own literary agent won't do. what I say.

Do it. In fact, I'm going to put you in. my schedule for 3 weeks. I'm going to. call you. Get the party started. And so, 3 weeks go by. I call him up. Carl. Daniel. She won't leave me alone. As soon as I walk in the door, she grabs. my leg and wants her time. All she wants. to do is be with me. I'm like, that's a problem? That's what we want, right? That's what. we're after. So, actual physical time.

And now parents are so busy. they're not spending this one-on-one. alone time listening. So, that's the. second part of it. So, time, actual. physical time. and shut up. I it's so important. So, you you love. them so much, you want to pour all of. your knowledge, all of your wisdom that. you worked your whole life on. and download it into their head. Don't.

do that. Listen to them. And therapists learn. this technique called active listening. that whenever someone says something, you don't interrupt and tell them how to. think. You repeat it back. And you listen for the feelings behind. the words. So, if my son came home and said, "Dad, I want to have blue hair.". I don't know what your father would have. said, but I know what mine would have. said. No way. No. As long as you live in.

this house, you can have blue hair. But. what does that do? It just stops the conversation or it. starts a fight. Active listening teaches. you repeat back what you hear. Oh, you want to have blue hair. And then. be quiet long enough. for them to like explain what's really. going on. And he might say, "All the kids are. wearing their hair blue.". Now, I've been to his school. I know not. everybody's blue-headed.

And if I would have said that to my dad, I don't know what your dad would have. said. I don't care what anybody else is doing. As long as you live in this house, you're not going to have blue hair. If. they're going to jump off a bridge, are. you going with them? That one for sure. I've heard that. plenty of times. And. what does it do? Stops the conversation or it starts a. fight. Sounds like you want to be like the. other kids. Completely different conversation. But. that's. and he might say, "Dad, you know, sometimes I feel like I don't fit in.".

Now, my mother would have said, "What do. you mean you don't fit in? Of course you. fit in. You're a good boy. You're. good-looking boy. You're nice boy.". And that's not helpful either. What is. helpful is. so, sometimes you feel like you don't. fit in. And then give it a breath. So, they're. the ones solving their problem. Now, at. the end of a half an hour, he says, "I. still want to have blue hair." I'm going. to tell him, "No way in hell as long as. you live in my house, because.

it's not cool to look weird. I mean, if. you look weird, you're going to hang out. with weird people, right? It's okay to. have boundaries. around behavior. Some parents they have. like no boundaries. And I think some. boundaries are appropriate. What does no boundaries lead to? Like. from a neuroscience and from a. study perspective of what is what. happens if you have no boundaries? to mental health problems. So, there's a. this great study out of the University. of Oregon where they looked at 10,000.

families, and they looked at parenting. along two dimensions. Parents who were. um. firm versus permissive. And then, hostile versus loving. And if. you take those two dimensions, you end. up with four types of parents. Permissive and hostile, permissive and firm, loving and permissive,

loving and firm. And they looked at what were the. consequences or the outcome of each. parenting style. Do you have a sense what would be worse? What would be the worst one that creates. the most trouble? You would think that it's hostile and. permissive. Hostile and permissive, the worst. What. do you think is the second worst? Loving and permissive? Loving and permissive. Shocking. Wow. Because children need boundaries.

And the loving and permissive ones had. more mental health challenges than the. hostile and firm. Now, that's not. helpful, right? That creates anxiety. But, children need boundaries. I often. say God gave us parents until our. frontal lobes develop, right? The front. third of the brain, the most human part. of the brain, focus, forethought, judgment, impulse control, and that's.

why you need parents to help guide you. And. the one of the big mistakes we make as a. society is. we abdicate parenting before their. frontal lobes are developed. So, I'm. like not a big fan of sending children. away to college because you're going to. take their undeveloped prefrontal cortex. and put them in a dorm with a whole. bunch of other undeveloped prefrontal.

cortices. Bad idea. And, you know, I. learned this as child psychiatrist and. kids away to school, the incidence of. anxiety goes up, depression goes up, suicide goes up, addiction goes up, and. it's not a good thing. How were you able to go get around that. with your kids going to college as well? Well, I mean, one of my daughters wanted. to go to the University of Virginia, so. always across the state. I'm like, "No, you have to go.

to somewhere I can drive to see you in 3. hours.". Wow. Wow. So, yeah, that's. it's really interesting this limits and. rules building mental fortitude that you. talk about because. it's it's hard to know, I think, as a. parent, and it comes back to the earlier. point that you were saying that we're. just dealing with so much ourselves. Like, people are busy, they're stressed, they are on their phone just trying to. decompress after a long day. And what I. liked about what you said was 20 minutes.

of no questions, no commands, and no. directions. That, I think, is really powerful and a. special takeaway for people because. it may be really hard to give quality. time, but I love the definition of. quality time becoming no directions, no. commands, and no questions because it. seems like that's what our relationship. becomes about with children. And what do. all of those do? If your relationship is. just giving the kids commands, directions, questions, what ends up.

happening to the relationship? down. And if you're just in their space and. and. you know, as a child psychiatrist, you know, I've seen thousands of. children over the years and often. parents go, "He won't talk to you. He doesn't want to be here. He won't. talk to you." I go, "Yeah, it's really. hard to be me." And. I just sit there and I'll play games. with them, but while I'm playing a game. with them in a game they choose, they. chat. You know, they talk about what's.

going on in their dreams, what goes on. at home, what goes on. would you play with them? I mean, we'll play cards, we'll play. shoots and ladders, we'll play Monopoly, we'll play all sorts of different games. Um. and one of my favorite games is the. storytelling game where all they'll. start a story and all they'll have a. sentence, I'll have a sentence, I'll. have a sentence. And you really get to. see how their minds work. Why does that work? Why is that a great.

interaction point that allows them to. open up? Because kids, if you just say, "Tell me. your problem.". They'll have no idea and they'll freeze. If you play a game with them or you go. for a walk with them, then they begin to. open up if they know you'll listen. And. we just we're in a society that's. talking over each other. Parents are. anxious and they want to solve things. and they talk too much. So, if I can get. people to use less words and be more.

present. It's gold for them. How do you know if a child is becoming. more mentally strong or more mentally. weak? As you're practicing some of these. methods, what do you notice? What are. the habits or the core traits of a. mentally strong child and a mentally. weak child? So, mentally strong kids don't believe. everything they think. This is so. important. Before another episode, we've. talked about killing the ants, the. automatic negative thoughts. Actually, I.

have a child's book called Captain Snout. and the superpower questions, where I. wrote specifically to teach kids to. question their automatic thoughts. And. so, a vulnerable child, so maybe. wouldn't say mentally weak, let's just. say vulnerable, is you notice they have. stinking thinking. They. They mind read, they fortune tell, they. focus on what's wrong rather than on.

what's right. A strong child still have. those thoughts, but they'll question. them. They just won't attach to. um what I call the different kinds of. ants. And blame is like the worst ant, you know? It's you blame other people. for your life, you become a victim, and. you become powerless. What is it I can. do today. to solve this problem? And that's the. essence of the book, along with Love and.

Logic. What is it I can do today to. solve this problem? Yeah. Obviously, none of us are perfect, and I think every parent. is already judging themselves. in how they are a parent. I think a lot. of people carry that weight around, and. they carry that stress around of I'm not. a good parent, I wish I could have. handled that better, I shouldn't have. said that, I should have said that. What's a healthy way to repair a mistake. you've made. Maybe you've said something. you wish you didn't say, you did.

something you shouldn't have done, and. you've done it a few times. What's a. healthy way to repair that bond? Well, there's a guilt cycle that people. get into. They overreact. And then they feel bad about it. So, they don't react. And they let bad. behavior go, and they let it go, and. they let it go, and then they can't. stand it, and then they explode. And then they feel guilty. And so, they. don't react, and they don't react, and. then they don't react, and then they. overreact. And so, the trick is when.

there's behavior you don't like, deal. with it. As opposed to let it go. It's. like deal with it in the moment. And you. are going to make mistakes. Lord knows. I've made lots of mistakes. But every. day I win or I learn. Right? I'm working. with an Olympic athlete that I just love. so much, Alysha Newman. She's a Canadian. uh record holder for pole vaulting. And. um she's such a mess. When I saw her,

she did my show Scam My Brain. And now. she's so mentally strong because every. tournament she wins or she learns. And. as a parent, that's the mindset. It's, you know, we had a really great day. And. when you don't have a great day, why. didn't we have a great day? And you. think about it. In the book, there's all. sorts of brain reasons why you didn't. have a great day. You didn't sleep. You. went too long without food. Um.

there's the time change, you know. That. has more bad days just because, you. know, as a society we become jet-lagged. all at once. So, if you can just be. curious. rather than being furious, it helps you. so much. So, if we have a really great. day, it's like, "Okay, why did that. happen?" And just be thoughtful. And the. default is always firm and kind.

And the softer your voice, the more they. pay attention to it. If you're. screaming, they tune you out. And they. get mad. It's so interesting. As I'm listening to. you, I'm thinking, as you gave in the. example of the Olympic athlete, we need this for ourselves right now at. this age, because our child self didn't probably. get this kind of parenting or wasn't. exposed to this. And so, even that. statement you just said that I either.

win or I learn, I think that's a habit. that any of us listening to this right. now need to develop, because I think. just as we're harsher on children or. harsher on someone else, it's comes from. a fact that we're harsher on ourselves. Like, there's this inner critic and this. inner voice that breeds negativity, and. as you said, the guilt cycle that. continues. It seems that that then. becomes the externalized version is how. we treat the kids. And then again, we. feel guilty for doing that, because we. know it's wrong.

When you're trying to become mentally. strong yourself, but you feel like you. don't have time, your kids need dinner. cooked, you need to do their homework. with them, like, I feel like there's a. massive loss of time, balance, the. ability to cater to this. What do people do when they're like, "Jim, I'm just surviving. Like, I'm just. putting food on the table, just about. even surviving for myself to be able to. switch on the TV in the evening after. the kids are asleep. Like, I get no time. for myself." How do we balance that. time? That's why special time is not 2 hours.

with the child. It's doable. You plan. the long game. And too often, parents love their. children so much. It's we're going to do. soccer, and we're going to do dance, and. we're going to do music, and we're going. to and it's like stop that. You need. time to spend with each other. And. you're like, well, but I have to do my. homework with the children. It's like, please don't. That's not what the. schools want you to do. They want the. children to do the homework. And if they.

don't do it, let the kids pay the. consequences. But then, what parents do. is they get into this fortune-telling. thing. It's like, well, then they won't. get into the best preschool, and they. won't get into the best school, and they. won't go to Harvard, and their life will. be terrible. And like, I went to a. junior college, a community college. I'm. actually in the Hall of Fame at Orange. Coast College. And. I actually think many people, Mark Cuban. actually said that. It's like, most.

people should go to a community college. because it's such a low cost, and it's. the same education. Right? But people. have this idea of prestige is attached. to myself-esteem. And it's And prestige is a French word, comes from a French word for deceit. Right? That I mean, I went to a. community college, my life's just. awesome. because I work hard. Right? And. ultimately, another point, you never.

want to tell a child they're smart. I. mean, parents get so proud, you're so. smart. Don't ever do that. Go, you work hard. Because if you tell them they're smart. and they can't learn something, their self-esteem drops. If you go, I really like how hard you're working. They come up with something hard, they. work harder. And you also teach kids cuz mentally. strong people ask questions. And too. often, it's like, no, I won't ask. questions so I don't want to appear. dumb. It's like, mentally strong people,

they ask questions. And so, when I was. in elementary school, I'd never ask a. question. And then I realized cuz I was. in the army, and I took 3 years between. high school and college, and I was able. to grow up, and I'm like, "Oh, you have. to ask questions, right?" I learned that. in the army. If you ask a question and. somebody says no, ask somebody else cuz. they're more likely to say yes, right? So, I learned that. Don't just accept. no. But in school, it's like, "Oh, let me. ask questions." If I don't understand.

something, odds are people don't. understand those well. What are some of those other statements. that parents say to kids that they think. they're saying the right thing, but they end up backfiring because they. make it harder for the child to live up. to that. What are some of those other. statements? It'll be okay. Like, or I'll take care of it for you. They're having problems with the another. child at school, they immediately in the. principal's office. They're not. listening to the child and going, "So, how do you think you can handle.

that?" Or what did they go and they fix. it. And that's death to their. self-esteem. Now, of course, if it's. dangerous or bullying or abuse, you have. to step in and take care of it. But for. the day-to-day stuff, "How do you think you can solve this?". As opposed to, "Well, I had that problem when you were. when I was your age, and this is what I. did, and this is what you should do.". Don't do that. because it steals their self-esteem. It.

steals their agency. "What is it you can. do? I'm rooting for you." Rather than, "Well, that's a dumb decision.". Yeah. Yeah. Wow. No, I. I'm rooting for you. so huge in our friendships. It's so huge. in marriage. It's It's huge with kids. I. think it's so easy. to just say, "This is what I did. This. is what you should do. This is the right. way to do it. This is easy." And we. think we're We're basically doing a. shortcut because we're not listening.

We're not actually bonding. We're not. connecting. And we're trying to jump to a conclusion. that hopefully we think solves the. issue. And a lot of this comes back to. what we've both mentioned in this. conversation is that there's this. subconscious. ego attachment. to the child succeeding as being a. reflection of our self-esteem, our. self-worth, our self-esteem gets wrapped. up in our child's self-worth and. self-esteem. And now, you know, subconsciously we're living. our dreams through them. That's not as. basic as saying I want my kid to be a.

doctor because I am, but there there's. other more subtle versions of that. How. do people disconnect from that ego. because it seems to be so subtle and so. hidden, but it's there and I think. everyone notices it with their parents. when their parents are acting in that. way, but almost when we become parents, we. we're completely oblivious to that ego. And it's so important. It's often so toxic if someone is living.

an unrealized life that they pour a lot. of it into their child, and it makes. these kids miserable. And it doesn't give them a sense of. agency. It constrains. them, um, and they often rebel against. it as opposed to. "What do you want to do? It'll make you a good living so I don't. have to support you.". And I.

love. my six children, but I never want to. have to live with them. Right. So, I want to create. competent people who can care for. themselves. It's like, "Oh, go live your dream whether or not. you can take care of yourself." And. that's going to set them up to be. miserable. Mhm. If you're dependent on someone else, you're miserable. Entitled people are. never happy.

Um, another thing is, and. uh I posted this on Tik Tok and it got. like 7 million views. Um, hallmark of mental strength. Um, I don't do things for people who do not. treat me with respect. Mhm. Woah. So, you know, your child. misbehaves, you love them so much, it. doesn't matter, you you know, give them. everything they want anyways. Deaf. I don't do nice things for people who I.

feel don't treat me with respect. Mhm. That doesn't mean you don't feed them. Of course you feed them. But, you're not. taking them to the store and you're not. doing nice things for them. I mean, you. need to teach them their consequences. So, the third part, so it's. goal setting, bonding, so much there. And so many mental illnesses are. attached. to attachments that become broken.

Could you walk us through those? So, John Bowlby's sort of the famous. attachment. uh. psychologist and he said that if we're. not connected to our moms or dads, um it puts us at great risk for mental. health problems. And he's absolutely right. And often the. break in the bond between your mother or. your father or can be any primary.

caretaker caretaker creates this rage. inside of you. And then you feel guilt about the rage. And so you attack yourself. And you know. many people who live with this negative. chatter in their head and it's often. that specific dynamic. that they're furious. at their mother, their father, you know,

perhaps a divorce happened when they. were four or five, or they had a sibling. die when they were four. Something. happened. They get really angry, but that's not. appropriate because these are the people. that feed me. So, rage, guilt about the. rage, and then self-attack. And they live with that their whole. lives. I can't tell you the number of. people Um and when you're a four or five. or six, you think of yourself at the center of.

the world. And so, something good happens, you sort. of think it's cuz of you. If something. bad happens, you think it's because of. you. And you end up with this chronic. sense of being bad. And there's a. specific type of therapy I like. It's. called intensive short-term dynamic. psychotherapy. And it's often getting to. the feelings underneath, and rage and.

attachment and guilt about the rage are. often a significant piece of it. Sometimes it's hard because I feel like. a lot of people. maybe feeling like, you know, I don't understand my child. Like, they're angry, they're upset, they. you know, they they kind of want to. disconnect. What do you do in that situation? Where. do you start? Well, I think you first start with the. simple things, time.

And. look at what they're eating cuz that. matters. Um I have one patient who would go in a. rage whenever he got red dye. And. people go, "Red dye?" Yeah, red dye. number 40. Um. and so. every sweet and candy. It's Think of red vines. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's even in cough syrup for. children or hard candies, red dye number. 40. And he would go on a rage.

And when they would take away red dye, he'd be fine. But sometimes he'd get it. accidentally and he'd rage. And so I. actually scanned him, you know, that's. what I do. I look at people's brains. And so we scanned him, no red dye for a. month. and his brain was healthy. We gave him red vines that have red. dye number 40 in it and his brain went. like it exploded.

That dramatic hyperactivity in his. brain. And so. if you're really struggling with your. child and you use the principles Dr. Fay. and I talk about in this book and you're. still struggling, it's probably a good. idea to get him assessed. And on. average, it's years between the time a child. first has a symptom, anxiety, depression, OCD,

ADD, between they have a symptom and they get. assessed. And so many bright people go, "I'd never give my kids drugs.". And it's like if he's diabetic, you'd. give him drugs. If he had heart disease, you'd give him. drugs. It's like and I'm not advocating. drugs, right? I mean, I own a supplement. company. Um. but I'm not opposed. If I do the all the things I know how to. do, then I'd use medicine to do it. People.

like don't really see the brain. as an organ, right? They have to get the. progression. Your brain, physical function of your. brain, creates your mind. And if your brain's not right, your. mind's not right. And so, what are all the ways. that. a mind can be troubled? Right? So, if you have a child that's. not sleeping, that has nightmares, that.

has tantrums that won't go away. They. don't socially connect, they're. obsessive. It's like at some point you. have to go, "What's going on in their. brain?". And there's a whole section in the book. on brain health. For kids, of course, you got to model it. as as a parent, but what you feed them. Mhm. matters. How much sleep they get. matters. I have another really. fun book called Time for Bed, Sleepyhead, which is a hypnotic bedtime. story for children. I actually used to.

do it with my daughter Brienne when she. was three. I did it from three until. eight. She loved the story so much. Um. And think of your kids in four big. circles. They have a biology, so we talked about. their brain. They have a psychology, how. they think. They have a social circle, what's. their environment like, and there's a. spiritual circle, which most child. psychiatrists wouldn't touch. But it's.

sort of like, "Why do you care? You. know, why do you think you're on the. planet? What's your sense of meaning and. purpose?" Because purposeful people. are happier. Purposeful people, I mean, what am I on on purpose? Right. They they live longer. And so, nurturing. those four circles so important for the. kids. Mhm. What is it What does loving discipline. look like? Because I think it's it. sounds good. Like, we're all like, "Yeah, I would I would love to be.

disciplined, but I'd love to be loving.". And often we don't even figure out what. that means in the workplace, let alone. with kids. We're either loving or. disciplined. But we're not. it should be both. What does it look like? Well, you know, we haven't gotten to. rules. I I think family should have. them. Society has rules. Like tell the truth. Do what mom and dad say the first time. I love that rule. Because do you know your chance of. abusing the child? If you tell a child. to do something five times, your chance.

of abusing that child just went up. significantly. And so, if you have the expectation, they'll do things the first time. It's. like, "Caitlin, take you know, I want. you to take out the trash. Like in the. next half hour.". And if she doesn't, it's like, "Sweetheart, you have a choice. You can take it out now. or you can have this consequence and. then you can take it out. I don't care. It's up to you." And I love that part of. not being attached to it.

I love her. I'm really clear. And she's getting that consequence if. she doesn't move. Like um. stop. threatening them and then not following. through. Because you teach them. that you have to tell them and get angry. and be a bit crazy in order for them to. do what you ask them. to do. And I I I I like the rules and rhythms. and routines. I remember in my home. after dinner, me and my sister would.

clean up and we had a little rotor of. who washed up that day and who cleaned. the table that day. And it was just. something that went around every day. We. take it in turns. And my sister was four. years younger than me and we'd just do. it together and it became this thing. that we just did and it became natural. It became a habit and it made us. accountable and responsible to each. other as well as well as our parents. And it was a really neat way of kind of. giving us that rules and you know, I. think sometimes we think of rules as. like strict rules and guidelines, but. actually it can be just a rhythm and a.

routine. in. And it builds in competence and skill. And you're part of the family rather. than you're entitled. Mhm. to live in that family. Yeah, yeah. And the earlier you start, the the. better it is. for kids. I mean, it's it's hard if you. not spend any time with children by the. time they're 14, their friends are more. important than you are. And that's the. heartbreaking thing I've learned is.

if you're not spending time with them, their friends will take your place. And. they may not have the the advice they. may not have the right ear. Mhm. for you. And it makes them more. vulnerable to all the scary stuff that's. on social media. Well, I was going to ask you about that. I think a lot of challenges that parents. have today are, "My child is addicted to. social media. They're addicted to their. phone. Forget spending time with them. I.

can't even get them to look up and make. eye contact." What have you seen? What. have you experienced? There's a whole section on technology. Is you can have technology. And I. recommend you delay it as long as. humanly possible because it's not in. their best interest. But you can have. technology as long as it's not creating. a problem in the family. And if we're. not connecting, that's a problem in the. family. If you're at dinner, uh now, you.

can't be on your phone all dinner and. tell your your child they can't be on. theirs, right? So, probably everybody. should put their phones away so you can. connect, right? Modeling mentally strong. parents ultimately raise mentally strong. kids. But the problem with social media. and you're on social media, I'm on. social media. It creates this toxic level of.

self-absorption. You know, who's looking at me, who am I. looking at, who's following me. Um, and self-absorbed people are never. never happy. But that's become such a challenge now, right? That. it's it's the thing everyone's addicted. to, it's the thing everyone wants. It's. like you said, parents are on their. phones, they're not going to stop. straight away. What do you see being the. silver lining or the light at at the end. of the tunnel that's going to have that.

breakthrough with a child? Like what. what do you think that would be? Well, you know, I'd go back to delay it as. long as you can. Even, you know, if the. child's like, "Everybody's doing it.". Cuz everybody's not doing it, but it's. it's like, "I love you so much, I'm. going to protect you." All the studies, all of them, say that it makes kids more. vulnerable to bad things. Um, and then when. What's it doing to our brain? What's.

social media doing to our brain? Well, addicting, man. Um, there's a a book I love called. Thrilled to Death. Uh, it's continually. pressing on your nucleus accumbens that. produces dopamine. Continually pressing. on the pleasure centers in your brain. But the problem with that is the more. you press on them, they begin to become. numb, and you need more and more.

excitement, more and more stimulation in. order to feel anything at all. And, you know, I see it with the. wonderful famous people I've been able. blessed to see. I see it in kids who are. addict- I mean, there actually programs. sent and I've sent a number of kids away. to video game internet addiction. program. Mhm. And when they get away from it,

they become sweet again. I had one kid. who parents took away video games, he. broke up all the furniture in his room. And I'm like, needs a program. What we decided to do, take away all the. gadgets, good. And I scanned him a month later. And. then I scanned him while he was playing. one of the violent video games he was. addicted to, and it deactivated his. frontal lobes and his left temporal. lobe, which is an area is often involved.

in violence. Like, that's a good thing. What What about parents that uh. you know, parents that are going through. a divorce, going through a difficult. time. What's the healthiest way to communicate. that to your to your child? I know I. know couples that are. staying together for the children, they. don't want to get divorced even though. they don't have a healthy relationship. I know others who are had the divorce, but they're so scared about how that. impacts the child. What have you seen. through the neuroscience and research.

around. when you're staying together or breaking. up? So, it's not good. Divorce is not good. for the child. But staying in a chronically unhappy, conflicted, negative relationship is worse. So, neither is good. I often say. to the people I see, the best thing you. can do for your child is love your. spouse. The best thing you can do model. a healthy relationship. But you know,

there's no education in school on how to. have a healthy. relationship. Right? So, there should. be. That would be helpful. Um. when you go through a divorce, be really. careful not to talk bad about the other. person. Because that child is half you. and half them. If you're talking bad about their. mother, they feel bad about themselves. Plus, it increases cortisol in their.

body and makes them much more likely to. be sick. So, bad thing. Often, if you're going to get divorced, go to. counseling together and figure out how. we are going to parent together. Raising. mentally strong kids is great. It's. like, we're going to parent this way. You know, we have goals, we have time. together, we have rules. One thing we. didn't talk about yet is notice what you. like more than what you don't, right?

There's all my whole penguin story is in. there, which I think I probably told. here before, but. I'd love that. Notice what you like. Every day, you're shaping your child by. what you notice. You're shaping your. partner. You're shaping your employees. You're shaping everybody by what you pay. attention to. And so, notice what you. like more than what you don't. And that. really solidifies the kind part of.

effective parenting. I've also been thinking a lot about I. was sharing with some. families over last week when I was doing. some events, this idea around how. mindfulness and meditation can look very. different for children. And so, I don't. think all kids need to be forced to sit. in one place and close their eyes. I. also think that mindfulness can be an. activity of, "Hey, when you're outside. today, see if you can find as many red. things as possible." When you go outdoor. today, come back and give me a list of.

things that you found that were red. Or, can you find as many leaves that look. like stars or any stones that look like. stars today when you're out and about? And I think mindfulness can actually. become alive when we're actually living. it and breathing it when they're out and. about, as opposed to this feeling of. kids need to learn it in a certain way. What have you seen with. Well, and they don't sit well. Yes, yes, exactly. That's my point. mean they have ADHD. It may mean their. nervous system isn't fully myelinated, right? It's not fully myelinated. For.

people that don't know what that means, when you're born, you actually don't. have much myelin in your brain. Um. as we develop, our neurons get wrapped. with a white fatty substance called. myelin. And a myelinated. neuron works 10 to 100 times faster than. an unmyelinated one. And our. when we're 2 months old, our occipital. lobes in the back vision become.

myelinated. And so when you look at a. baby and smile, they smile back. They. don't do it as newborns because their. visual cortex isn't working fast. And. then slowly, myelination goes from the. back and comes to the front when. finishes about when we're 25. And so. expecting a child to act like an adult, bad, bad, bad. But you can teach them. self-soothing. techniques from the age of four. I think.

take a big breath. Really slow. Slow as you can. Breathe it. out as slow as you can. And that'll calm. when they get anxious. So, you know. Yeah, what I'm hearing from you today is. that. Right. it's really helping them. develop the tools that they're going to. need long-term. The challenge is we need. to know what those tools are ourselves. for ourselves. for ourselves to really believe in them, because otherwise we, like you said, we. rush to solve their problems. We try and.

make up for their losses. They never get. to become independent, resilient. individuals. And talk to us about where love fits. into all of this. Like, what does love. look like with your child beyond time. and beyond certain things you've said. today? What does love really look like? What does love mean? Because I think. when you think about what parents. ultimately want, they want to be loving. parents. That's what everyone wants to. They want to love their child. But love. overcomes is overcompensating. Love.

often translates as over-solving, over-fixing, over-doing, and. overwhelming, and forcing them to be. overachievers. And so, even though we love them, we end up. doing all these things that cause them. pain. So, love is when you want to bring their. homework to school. It's not. Because you love them, and you want the. best for them, which is becoming. mentally strong. That's love. Love is putting away your.

phone and spending time with them. Love is when they go and when they're 10. and go, "All my friends have a phone. What if a school shooter comes and I. can't get a hold of you?" Children are. manipulative. Quite frankly, all of us. are manipulative. And it's like, you. know, there's just too many risks with. that. That's love. It's. setting boundaries in a kind, consistent.

way. And ultimately, love is you. developing these tools so you can be. firm and kind at the same time. Beautiful. Dr. Daniel Amen, everyone. The book is. called Raising Mentally Strong Kids. How. to combine the power of neuroscience. with love and logic to grow confident, kind, responsible, and resilient. children and young adults. If you don't. have a copy already, go and grab yours. right now. Dr. Daniel Amen, what a gift. to talk to you again about this subject.

Uh like we've said, you've come on many, many times. First time that we've really. dove in to kids and raising them. Uh and. I'm so grateful that you put this book. together for everyone else to read and. share and I hope that parents will. develop book clubs around it, communities around it because I think. this conversation. of raising. mentally strong kids needs to be at the. center of our schools, our homes, our. families because it's going to set them. up and set our society and world up for.

so much success. So, thank you so much. for doing this, honestly. Thank you, my friend. Thank you. If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr. Gabor. Maté on understanding your trauma and. how to heal emotional wounds to start. moving on from the past. Everything in nature grows only where. it's vulnerable. So, a tree doesn't grow. where it's hard and thick, does it? It. grows where it's soft and green and. vulnerable.