The Anxiety Expert: Get Out Of A RUT! Why Comfort Is The Enemy Of Growth

Don't say, "I'm anxious." Say, "I feel. anxious because." And that allows you to. be a human having an emotion and trying. your best to figure out why. Sharing. your anxious feelings in a way that you. don't identify with them. That invites. connection. And now we can talk about. it. And once we start revealing it, that's really the first step to healing. The number one health and wellness. podcast, J Shetty. J. Shetty. The one, the only J. Sh.

You say anxiety isn't something that. needs curing. Yes. Why was that. important for people to know right at. the beginning? I think when I started. this journey, it was really about. meeting people where they're at. And I. think now that mental health is like. mental health awareness has really. become normalized, it may have gone a. little bit too far with people. identifying with certain things that. they're struggling with. And it's like. anxiety is not a problem. It's not a. disease. It's not dandruff. It's not a.

condition that we have to deal with. It's a signal. It's here to help us. And. what we need to do is re-evaluate our. relationship with it. Right now, where. we're at is we medicate, avoid, and. distract. And all of those are. understandable coping mechanisms. They. help us in the moment. They help us feel. better. But none of that in the long. term is going to help us become better. And what it is is we just have to pay. attention to what anxiety and anxious. feelings are trying to tell us. And the. big thing with that is changing our. relationship in a way that makes us not. think like, oh, because I'm having.

anxious feelings, I must be weak. Something's wrong with me. Nobody else. is dealing with this. It's like, no, you. are absolutely normal for having anxious. feelings. And to start, that's the first. idea we have to understand, treating. ourselves with grace that this is. completely normal. And then once we get. there, we can start this journey going. from managing it in healthful ways and. then also growing from it. We don't want. to just keep soothing anxiety. We want. to gain strength through paying. attention and understanding what it's. trying to tell us. One of the things me.

and you talk about a lot when we're. having our offline conversations is this. difference in the idea of east and west. So the western ideology is I had. anxiety, I don't have it anymore. So. everything's painted as this before and. after. And we know that the east, which. we both take inspiration from, is more. cyclical where it's like, well, wait a. minute, anxiety isn't going to go away. It's going to keep showing up in my life. in different ways. Now, if anxiety shows. up in the same way, it's because I'm not. learning. I'm not strengthening. I'm not.

hearing the signal as you just called. it. Absolutely. And it's going to show. up in different ways because even if I. hear the signal of anxiety here, anxiety. is going to show up in another way over. here. And so, I love that you really. make it clear off the bat that this. isn't about solving a problem. Yeah. Right. It's not about getting rid of it. Yeah. What I'm promising in the book is. I'm not promising to cure anxiety. I'm. promising to cure the despair around. anxiety. And the despair is when we feel. hopeless because we don't think we have. options. So this book is full of options. to better understand anxiety and to to.

go from managing to striving and growing. and becoming stronger from it. And. because we feel hopeless, that's where. we stop. And a lot of the tension that. we carry comes from resisting these. emotions. It's not the emotions. themselves. Anxious feelings aren't. harming us. resisting and avoiding these. anxious feelings are what's actually. doing the damage. Oh, I love that. I. love that. I I think it resonates so. strongly with me because I've been. thinking a lot about how when you're. anxious about something, you feel like. you only have two options. So, it's like.

I either overcome this and my life's. going to be better or I'm stuck with. this for the rest of my life and my. life's over. Right? We kind of get these. two extreme options. And the fact that. you're saying, "Well, wait, wait a. minute. There's a third option, there's. a fourth, and there's 50 in here.". That's actually what we all want to. feel. I remember when I was anxious. about the fact that I hated my job. My. career wasn't really going where I. wanted it to go, but then I was anxious. about leaving. I realized the problem.

was my anxiety was all based on the fact. I had limited options. I felt I either. stay somewhere I hate or I leave and. then I'm lost cuz I don't know what's. going to come. And as as soon as I. started updating my LinkedIn resume and. I saw other job offers coming in and. there were other options, I was like, "Oh, it's not as bad anymore." But it. nothing really changed apart from the. fact that I could see a few steps. further. What have you found is the best. way to open up your mind to more options. when you're in a position where you feel. imprisoned and trapped by your thinking?

So, I love the idea that curiosity is. courage in disguise. And what we realize. is is often when we have this kind of. dualistic thinking, this is good, this. is bad, this will help, this will hurt, that's us limiting our scope as as you. said, and that's us being judgmental. And the only antidote to that is to be. curious, is to ask more questions, to. explore the gray between the black and. white. And as we start doing that, more. options arise. And we also start to. realize often the fear that I'm dealing. with is related to a story that I've.

told myself that I can only do this or. I've gone so far. I've climbed this. mountain and now people would think I'm. a failure if I have to climb all the way. back down to find a new mountain. So I. realized is keeping our mind open, keeping our hearts open requires. curiosity. And that really is what. courage is. And often we think this is a. light switch. We think, you know, either. I'm confident or I'm not confident. I'm. going to fix this or I'm not. It's like. really no, it's a dimmer. And it's not. simply a failing on our part. If we. start to feel like this, we live in a.

society that really encourages us to, okay, well, if this is difficult, let's. rearrange our lives to avoid it. You. know, a personal story for example, this. book was inspired through one of our. conversations when I was reaching out to. you to come on the podcast to the last. book and I explained that I feel a lot. of anxiety around asking for help and. you know, and you said many beautiful. words to me to help soothe that, but. that didn't address the fear of. rejection I had that didn't address any. of that. And then I caught myself. saying,"Well, you know what? Maybe this. will be the last book and I'll never.

have to ask for a favor again." That is. not healing. That is me rearranging my. life so I don't have to face the thing. that is giving me anxious feelings. And. there's no growth in that. That is me. temporarily managing it because I'm. going to have to ask for help. And what. we have to realize is these challenges. are an invitation for growth. Our. triggers are an invitation for growth. There's an opportunity here for us to. not only deal with them in a healthy. way, but then also to grow through them. because all of our growth happens.

outside of our comfort. And that's a. really interesting thing where I've. realized I'm like, "Okay, I can feel. better by avoiding asking for help or I. can be better by leaning into this and. being okay with that." It's powerful. when you paint that picture because I'm. sitting there going, I'm trying to think. about all the times I've avoided things. that I didn't want to do. And I remember. at one point I just avoided working out. Like I love playing sport, but I just. didn't want to work out. I didn't enjoy. it. I'd come up with loads of excuses. I. arranged my life in a way that I didn't.

have to do it. And as I grew older and. you realized the value of getting. stronger and taking care of your body, not just aesthetically, but for the. purpose of health, like to actually live. a healthy life, a strong life, you start. going, well, wait a minute. Actually, it. was only doing the thing and turning up. when I didn't want to that has left me. feeling better and stronger. as opposed. to when I was running away from it, I. was just getting weaker and weaker. And. that's exactly how we should look at. mental health. I think right now we're. looking at mental health like it's this. very fragile crystal that we have to.

protect from the world and like, oh, I'm. going to avoid this person to protect my. mental health. No, our mental health is. a tool. It's a muscle. It's what allows. us to deal with struggle. Struggle isn't. the enemy. Struggle is the vehicle that. makes us more resilient, that makes us. more emotionally strong, that makes us. more self-aware. Every time we have a. negative experience or we get triggered, we're giving ourselves data. That data. is is a gift for our self-awareness so. we can better understand who we are. And. it's just like you said, if you want to. help me move a couch, working out at the.

gym and voluntarily lifting heavy things. will prepare you for that. It's the same. thing with our mental health. We have to. voluntarily put ourselves in. uncomfortable situations. We have to. challenge ourselves on purpose. voluntarily. So when challenges find us, we're more resilient. We're more. confident. We'll feel more safe to deal. with that stuff. Yeah. And this isn't. about making your life harder. It's. being able to make your life harder in a. controlled choice-based environment. Like it's not like just like you're not.

just creating drama in your life. That's. not the point. Definitely not drama. But. I think the name of the podcast on. purpose. When you discover your purpose, even if you devote 15 minutes to like. digging in and and and picking up as. much weight with that purpose as. possible, that's going to energize you. to a level that most of us never. experience until we figure out that. thing that matters. So, it's really not. about adding drama to our lives, but. it's really about carrying as much. weight as we can to see how strong we. can be. We can only get stronger through.

struggle. And if we voluntarily put. ourselves in stressful situations, and. it could be even like think video games. We're not going to buy a video game if. it's easy, you know? We want there to be. a challenge. We want to fall on our. face, get back up, and try again. And. it's the same thing with life. It's this. is how our batteries get charged. It. comes through choosing to do hard things. voluntarily on purpose. And that can be. anything. For some people, it could be a. specific art. It could be drawing. It. could be working out. It could be. jiu-jitsu. It could be any type of.

challenge. And and this is going to. charge our batteries so much more than a. two week vacation lying on a beach doing. absolutely nothing. Yeah. And it builds. more confidence, right? Because when. you're doing difficult things, I always. say to people, someone asked me the. other day, they said, "Jay, how do I. feel confident before I do this?" Mhm. And I said, "I never feel confident. before I do something. I feel prepared. I feel organized. And I feel practiced. I feel confident after I conquer it." So. when I'm about to give a talk, I don't. feel confident before I give a talk, but.

I know I've practiced. I know I've. prepared and I know I'm organized. Now I. give the talk and then I feel confident. because I built a new muscle, built a. new skill, whatever it may have been. And so this idea that I need to feel. confident before I do something. I need. to not feel anxiety before I do. something is actually quite unnatural. How do we get comfortable with. discomfort? How do we get comfortable. with uncertainty when we're wired to. want things to feel good and be. comfortable? I think it's recognizing. that a we're wired for a world that we.

don't live in anymore. So we are getting. way too much stimuli. We're comparing. ourselves to way too many people. We. know way too many people. You know, we're really wired to be in much smaller. communities. And bringing up this. concept of confidence, I think, is. really important because it goes back to. that idea that it's not a light switch. I like to think about reading. We didn't. not know how to read and then one day. know how to read. We started by learning. the alphabet, learning the sounds, two. little words, three little words, four. little words until we could all read big. complex novels. That was like a 14, 15.

year journey. You know, we may not have. realized that was happening because it. was in school. It was fun. We may not. have had a choice. We had to go anyways. But as adults, the thing is all of our. growth came from doing the struggling. with a book when you were reading it. Now, as we become idols, we we avoid all. these things that are struggling. And. it's really re-evaluating our. relationship with difficult things and. challenges. And it's absolutely correct. Both motivation and confidence, they. don't come before action. You can't wait. till you're motivated to do something.

Doing something will make you motivated. Doing something will make you. confidence. And and this also brings up. a really important idea that as we have. this conversation, this is really going. to hit people logically like, "Oh, that. makes so much sense. That makes so much. sense." But for the body to really. believe this, you can't make sense to. the body. You have to practice this. Yeah. You know, if I ask you to stand up. and fall backwards and I say, "I'll. catch you." Your brain might be like, "I. trust him." Your body is still going to. be a little bit nervous. Let's say I. catch you. And then I'm like, "Let's do.

it again." You'll be a little less. nervous, but you're still going to have. some nerves. We might have to do it 15. times for your body to completely trust. the process. We have to practice. Practice makes progress. And we have to. get out of this binary of like, I can't. do it or I'm perfect at it. I can't do. it or I've mastered it. We have to just. continually be on a journey and. celebrate the progress that comes from. that. And that progress is what builds. our confidence and and slowly turn up. that dial because that's the only way. it's going to happen. You say anxiety. overestimates the threat and.

underestimates our ability to deal with. it. Absolutely. What did you mean by. that? So, I heard a really interesting. quote which was anxiety is when your. intelligence grows quicker than your. courage. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And often. times when we're younger, we accomplish. amazing things and we don't know we're. supposed to be afraid of it. We don't. even know we're supposed to be afraid of. playing on the street or what have you, what the stresses are. You may have. accomplished something where the odds. were against you, but you didn't know. the odds. So, you didn't feel that. anxiety. So, when our intelligence grows. now, all of a sudden, our imagination is.

being used to invent threats, right? To. detect threats, things that may or may. not happen. And then that holds us back. from actually because it triggers our. amydala. We have a little tiny part of. our brain the size of an almond called. the amydala. In the book, I call it our. survival brain. And it's like a very. undertrained but loving bodyguard that. wants to protect you from everything. But it's definition of danger is. uncertain, unrecognizable, unfamiliar, uncomfortable. And these we know aren't.

things that are actually dangerous. Struggle isn't danger. Challenge isn't. danger. But when we come across that, we're going to speak ourselves out of. it. So, it's really important to. understand this kind of idea that we. need to feel the fear and do it anyways. Resilience doesn't feel good when you're. being resilient. When you have to be. resilient, when you have to be strong, it's not going to be a great feeling. And that's okay. Building resilience. voluntarily doing difficult things may. not be a good feeling, but that's okay. because we're not here to live a life.

without suffering. We're here to see our. own potential and see how much we can. endure. And again, it's not about. putting yourselves in uncomfortable and. dangerous situations. It's about. realizing that life is chaotic. Life is. random. Most of it is out of our. control. Let's stop tensing ourselves by. trying to hold on to everything. Let the. chips fall where they may and trust. ourselves that we can handle whatever is. coming our way. Everybody is a social. butterfly and maybe you're just in the. wrong garden. And I think that's really.

important versus the selfidentifying of. I'm socially anxious. It's like or. you're just in a room with the wrong. people. Boundaries at the end of the day. are saying I care about you so much that. I want to improve our dynamic. Teaching. people say, "Listen, this is how I. expect to be treated. I'm not telling. you what to do, but if I'm not treated. this way, I probably won't be around. here." You can't guilt a caterpillar. into becoming a butterfly. Really, what. it is is people pleasing. It's wanting.

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And then I remember when I went through. some real stuff. Yeah. And I was. like, "Oh." And at the same time, I. remember that I'd been through, like you. just said, real stuff when I was. younger, and I never gave myself credit. for it because I just assumed that. that's what life was. I didn't realize how much hardship I'd. been through in my early years because. to me it was just normal. And I think. that's true for a lot of people. And. then there's the other side of it where. it's like I may talk about these ideas,

I may hear them, but then life's going. to throw a challenge at me where I. actually have to apply what I've. learned. And you say something in the. book where you say home is where the. anxiety starts. I think a lot of us feel. that. We felt the anxiety of our. parents. We felt the anxiety of our. siblings. We felt the anxiety of the. extended family and we kind of just. ingested all of it. Yeah. And then it's. only decades later that you kind of even. realize that you might be sitting at. like a dinner table at a holiday dinner. at your parents house or you're sitting.

around with your family and you go, "Wait a minute, everyone here is. carrying anxiety and you can actually. see it." But then you realize you've. kept on to it for decades. What do you. do when you feel like you've been. carrying the baggage of anxiety that you. picked up when you were a kid and you. haven't unpacked for 20 years? I think. the first thing is be super super nice. to yourself. You know, imagine. 8-year-old you is dealing with these. complex adults with their emotions and. they grew up at a time where emotional. intelligence and being able to.

communicate an emotion wasn't a thing. So your coping mechanisms and your. survival mechanisms, your your mental. health tried its best to adapt the best. it could with your limited 8-year-old, nine-year-old brain. And then those. coping mechanisms became habits. And. then as adults, we continued those. coping mechanisms even though we have. access to more helpful ones. And instead. of looking back and being like, well, I. I'm a product of all this trauma or I'm. a product of I made all these poor. choices and now I'm stuck in this habit. loop, just be like, look, my mental.

health has always been on my team. It's. always been helping me. Now we just need. to upgrade it. With family, I I do view. them as the ultimate boss in this world. of anxiety because it's like they can. push our buttons cuz they install the. buttons, right? I love that point. And. there's that. And I always think about. even in in my household where it's like. I have a lot I get along with my family. Great. Just stepping into my childhood. home brings up anxious feelings. Oh, I. can relate. It it reminds you of. versions of yourself that you don't want. to remember. And I think the idea that.

really helped me realize this was like. if you learn the lesson, you won't be. afraid of the test. So I think what. ended up happening is when we have these. feelings, again, these are signals. It's. like the smoke detector going off. Instead of pulling out the battery, ripping the smoke detector off the. ceiling, putting a piece of tape over. the light, let's look for the smoke, you. know? So when we are at home and these. these anxious feelings start coming up. this is an opportunity for us to start. exploring and figuring out what it is. and as simple as feeling the feelings.

you know and maybe in a moment it may. not be the best time for you. So do what. do whatever you do to soothe. You know, if it's if you got to go and look at. your phone, please do what you got to. do. Look at your phone. If you got to go. distract yourself, if you got to. medicate, you got to go have a. cigarette, whatever you normally do, cool. But the next day when you're well. rested, you've had a glass of water, you're hydrated, you know, you haven't. read a bad text message, a bad email. yet, you're in a good place. Voluntarily. go back into that. Maybe pull out a. journal and be like, "What is it about. my family situation that's there?" And.

now you're in a good place to peel back. these layers and voluntarily lean into a. trigger. And once we lean into it, that's the way it's actually going to. heal. And then once it heals, we'll have. room for something new to come. It's. never going to be I've healed and I live. happily ever after. We're not we don't. live this linear life. It's a cycle. And. as you said, like you thought you can. handle stuff until something new came. That's not a failing on your part. That's the next level for you to build. that strength. And then as you as you. come out of that, which I've definitely. seen you have, and you've come out much.

more wise, much more strong, much more. compassionate, much more kind to. yourself and other people, now something. new may come, a new curveball may come. And as you continue practicing your. swing, you'll be able to handle that as. well. And that's what I believe our. mental health should be. It should be. this confidence that, hey, it will be. hard, but I'm not afraid of hard. Having. a hard day does not mean I' I've. experienced trauma. Having a person that. is difficult to be with doesn't. instantly make them toxic. You know, we've we've got to this point where. mental health awareness has increased, but we may have swung the pendulum a.

little too far where now we've created. identities out of these things. Let's. not create an identity. It's okay. Things are going to be challenging and. let's train and trust ourselves to. handle it. And that's only going to come. through practice. So, in England, I. remember when I was at school, we'd have. fire drills, right? And even here, you. have a fire drill. And it's like that. fire drill may or may never come. Like. the real thing may or may never come. But you're prepared. Yes. And now you. know that even in the face of a fire. drill, you know what to do. You know.

what the exit is. You know what to take, what not to take. You know where to line. up outside school, whatever it may be. And I think that's what it is for life. It's almost like you can't fire drill. everything cuz that's where anxiety. comes from too cuz you're like, I'm. going to prepare for everything possibly. bad that could happen and that could be. an unlimited list. But at the same time, it's having the confidence that I've. built the skills to know I can deal with. certain things. And by the way, there. will be curve balls that I don't have a. clue with. I want to go back to what you. said about family. What do you do when.

the family that, as you said, installed. the buttons, when they push them, what. do you do? I think immediately in terms. of managing them, you know, before we. worry about growing through it, the. magic word is going to be boundaries. And I think what's important is we. define boundaries in a way that matters. Boundaries is teaching people how to be. with you. And your boundaries can be. universal. For example, I can have a. boundary. Listen, if you were going to. remind me of my age and that I haven't. got married and had any kids yet and.

that, you know, I'm not living out my. purpose in life, then obviously I'm not. going to call as much mom. You know, but. if anybody else does that, it's going to. be the exact same thing. It's teaching. people say, "Listen, this is how I. expect to be treated. I'm not telling. you what to do, but if I'm not treated. this way, I probably won't be around. here. And this is what my B I'm setting. a standard, and I'm really teaching you. how to be around me." And I think. boundaries at the end of the day are. saying, "I care about you so much that I.

want to improve our dynamic." And I. think that's a really important thing. when it comes to family because that's. the hardest place to set up boundaries. because everybody is so used to it. And. I'll be completely honest, when somebody. has hit me with boundaries, it was. uncomfortable for me. You're so used to. things being a certain way. Sudden. change for anybody is not going to be. comfortable. And we have to approach. this with a lot of grace. Grace for. ourselves and grace for other people. So. I think boundaries is generally the. first place. And then also having. context and just being like, look, they. really did try their best. When I worked.

with the therapist, they were always. reminding me, listen, your parents were. in survival mode. They may not have been. the most emotionally nurturing, but they. were trying to put food on the table. They were trying to make sure you were. good, you were safe. And like that's. what they were doing. That's all the. tools that they had. And I think it's. really important because what I. realized, especially in the last year, is the kinder and more gracious I am to. myself, the kinder and more gracious I. can be to other people. And vice versa. The more I put in effort to be more. understanding and kinder to other.

people, the more effort I can put to be. kinder and more gracious to myself. And. that's removing judgment, which takes us. back to courage through curiosity. And. that's the thing that even when you set. boundaries, that person's still going to. break your boundary. If you set the. boundary, which I I'm just going to use. yours as an example, if you talk to me. about getting married and having kids. and all this traditional way of living, I'm going to talk to you less. You may. find that even when you make an effort. to talk to that person, they still bring.

it up. You may find an opportunity. message anyway. I think the challenge. people have is they feel guilty for not. loving their family, not being seen as a. good person. Maybe they even feel guilty. for not delivering on the promise that. their or the expectation that their. parents had. And then that guilt and. shame which you call like anxieties BFFs. like it's really weird because you're. like now going you're breaking your. boundary to make yourself feel better.

for how you take care of that person or. because you just love them but now. you're breaking it but then they upset. you again. So it gets really messy like. how do we how do we really define it in. a way that we go yes that makes sense. now I know why I'm going to keep it that. way. Absolutely. I think it's not even. guilt. I think I've realized over time. it's peopleleasing. M it's abandoning. ourselves for somebody else. I think. true guilt is when we abandon who we are. based on our own values. You know, let's.

say you were having a bad day and you. spoke to somebody that you cared about. in a way that you don't normally do. And. then a little bit time goes by, you're. like, I really wish I didn't do that. And that's guilt. That's that that to me. that's authentic. That's a great. definition. That's that's betraying who. you authentically are. Now, the idea of. like, oh, well, I'm speaking to Jay and. he keeps bringing up these things I. don't want to talk about, but I really. don't want to let him down. I don't want. to make him upset cuz he doesn't hear. from me anymore. That's me trying to. absorb your pain. That's me thinking.

because a lot of us do that in. childhood. We absorb other people's pain. because we don't believe in their. resilience either. Like, well, I can. handle it. I'll handle their pain. I. don't want to make my mom upset. I can. handle her pain. I'm robbing you of the. resilience that's going to come from you. dealing with that challenge. and I'm. betraying myself, increasing my own. anxious feelings. So, I think what we. really need to do and and and I have a. quote in the books, you you can't guilt. a caterpillar into becoming a butterfly. You know, we can't speed any of this up. So, I really think sometimes when we use. this word guilt, it really goes around.

us romanticizing some of these things, but really what it is is peopleleasing. It's wanting people to like us at the. expense of us ever actually experiencing. any real love. Establishing boundaries. and then honoring your own boundaries. That's being your best friend. That's. protecting yourself to a level. And as I. said, this is just the beginning to. manage it. At the end of the day, the. secret here isn't to avoid these people. It's to open a dialogue, open more. vulnerability, build a connection, figure out where they're coming from, and strengthen the relationship.

accordingly. It's not We don't want to. get to this point where anybody who. presents any type of struggle or. challenge for us, we just continually. cut them off from our lives. And because. this is just us rearranging our life to. make it easier. No, we got to lean into. the challenges, but just immediately the. boundaries got to be the first step. That's a great redefinition like that. understanding. I don't think I've ever. heard anyone say that before about that. difference between authentic guilt and. people pleasing because you're so right. That that resonated completely. That. idea that if I was if I was rude to.

someone, I would think about that the. whole day because I'd be upset because I. know that's not who I am is very. different to like, oh, I want to make. sure that that person likes me again. Absolutely. And that I hope that they. Yeah. It's such a such a great. redefinition. And one of the biggest. places we feel it as home as you say, but we also feel it with our friends. And you talk about how anxious friends. equals anxious you. The challenge today. is a lot of our friends are anxious. If we get rid of all of our anxious.

friends, we may not have any friends. left. Absolutely. So, what do we do? Because I feel like also all of our. friends have different anxieties. Someone's anxious about their career, someone's anxious about their. relationship, someone anxious about. their appearance, someone's anxious. about this. How do you deal with an. anxious friend? When we start talking. about the the specifics of like, um, I. have anxious feelings around my job, anxious feelings around my appearance. What we're still saying is, you know, this anxiety around things out of our. control, anxious feelings about things. that remind us of previous danger, uh.

anxious feelings about things that feel. unfamiliar. And I think these become the. headings that we can connect on. If I'm. vulnerable with you when I share a. vulnerable story, I'm generally going to. be nervous about it cuz I'm I'm afraid. that you're going to judge me. And I'm. sure your listeners have been in that. situation. But the vast majority of the. time that we're vulnerable with. somebody, we're inviting them to be. vulnerable with us. In the book, I talk. about this idea of my friend in Berlin. inviting me to a uh spa and I was. excited to go to this spa and I I'd hurt.

my shoulder dragging a uh a broken. suitcase and we're on we're on the way. to the spa and he goes, "I love how. open-minded you are." And I was like, "Why are you thanking me for being. open-minded?" And then I realized he. mixed up the word spa with sauna and we. are going to an all nude. sauna. And I'm about to see and this is. the the longest friendship I've ever. had. I've been his friend since we were. three. So, I'm about to see him naked. and a whole bunch of other people naked. in in Berlin. And the voices and I. realized I wasn't afraid of being naked. I was afraid of being judged and afraid.

of standing out, afraid of not. understanding a custom, how this is. going to work. I'm I'm in a different. continent. And the first thing, you. know, that helped was admitting to him. cuz he had just propped me up saying, "You're so open-minded. I love that. you're willing to do this." I didn't. want to let him down. my people pleasing. started to come up. But I'm like, look, now that you've clarified what this is, like and this is not just a a candle. light massage. I'm very nervous. And his. response was, I'm nervous, too. And and. we we strengthened the connection. And.

it wasn't the easiest experience, but we. got through it. And it was a funny. story. And you got to realize every. thing that makes us interesting is a. challenge that we've made ourselves go. through. And I think the first step. again, and I'm always going to say this. is the first step. It's not the absolute. solution. is going to be sharing your. anxious feelings in a way that you don't. identify with them. I'm encouraging. people and I got this from Mel Robbins. Don't say I'm anxious. Say, I feel. anxious because and that allows you to. be a human having an emotion and trying.

your best to figure out why. I feel. anxious because I'm about to be naked in. front of you and a whole bunch of other. people in this country and I don't and I. don't know if people are going to judge. me or what have you. And I think that. invites connection. And if you get and. someone else will be like, "I feel. anxious because I don't know if I have. job security." And now we can talk about. it. And once we start revealing it, that's really the first step to healing. You know, Jay-Z said it. He goes, "You. can't heal what you don't reveal." And.

we all know there's a value to this. because every single person has felt. super stressed in their brain about how. much things they have to do. and then. they write down a to-do list and it's. like three things and they're like, "Why. did that feel so heavy in my brain?". It's just getting it out is important. And we are again in a society that. structures a lot of individualism, a lot. of isolation. We need community. It's. not, as I said, it's not about cutting. off your friends who feel anxious. Everybody feels anxious and we probably. shouldn't label them as our anxious.

friends. However, if they decide to. cling on to the identity and they are. more interested in proving how hard life. is versus looking at it as an. opportunity to improve from it, then. that definitely is a friendship worth. reevaluating. Explain how this friend. did not know the difference between a. spa and a nude sauna. I believe it was. this friend sounds very uh you know what. it's Yeah, he I honestly believe he had. lived in Germany for eight years at that. point. born and raised in Canada across.

the street from me. Uh he's of Jamaican. descent and he had gotten married and. they both moved to Berlin together and I. guess maybe eight years of him not. speaking English every day. But it was. most definitely I I remember it vividly. I'd taken one of my parents suitcases. back then cuz this is when I just. started traveling and you know my. parents bought you know like six pieces. for like 30 bucks like cheap. Don't buy. cheap luggage. There's a reason. and the. wheel broke off and I was in London and. I was dragging it up the stairs from the. tube and I had pulled a muscle in my.

shoulder and I was so excited for a. massage and he said I remember he's like. yeah we're going to go to the spa it's. going to be great. It was definitely him. not speaking enough English for eight. years and it totally and it ended up. becoming a situation where you know now. it's a great story but all the emotions. were there and it didn't get easier the. moment I was there the longer I stayed. there the more my body was able to trust. okay this is the thing again and this is. the big thing our brains will understand. this immediately our bodies have to. catch up and the way to reinforce it.

with our bodies is through practice we. have to practice this we can't just hear. an inspirational quote once and be like, "All right, I figured it out. We have to. practice." So, you're encouraging. everyone goes to a nude spa. Definitely. go to Yeah. Go go go to a naked spot. But definitely Yeah. Do do the things. where you're like, "I can't do this.". When you voluntarily do something that. you think I can't do, it's the same as. sitting in the cold, which you did. I. mean, sitting in the cold. Definitely. one of those things and and even that. what I've realized too is like, you. know, got to go to Poland, got to train. in the cold, uh, you know, at the invite. of Louiswis House. And the irony of that.

was like, you know, sitting with Mike. Pner in the ice for 10 minutes, freestyle rapping, feeling like I'm the. most resilient person ever. Fast forward. 6 months ago, I am in a sauna with uh. Lewis and we're just chatting. He goes, "You want to take a dip in the pool?" So. this is October in LA and I went in the. pool and I couldn't stay in for 10. seconds cuz I didn't keep practicing. There's a value to the practice, but if. you don't keep practicing and in terms. of having self-compassion, that's okay. Yeah. Yeah, I used to be able to sit in.

the ice for 10 minutes. Now I can't take. a cold shower for 3 seconds, but I can. get back there through practice. My dial. just went back the other way. And I. think that's really important. We have. seasons, seasons where we can be more. resilient and build more resilience. And. then we have seasons where it's like, no, I'm just in survival mode. I can. just do the bare minimum. And I think. that's absolutely okay. I agree. Yeah. We create so much extra tension with. these expectations we have of ourselves. And it doesn't help. Especially when you. lock in a new habit, then when it. breaks, you're just beating yourself up. about not having that habit. Absolutely. So, like I've been working out.

consistently this year, probably like. four or five times a week. And I feel. great. And then last week, I was on the. road and I could I genuinely just. couldn't work out. I was in a different. city every day. I was barely in the. hotel. I would have been having to work. out like 10 p.m. or something. And I. prioritized my sleep over my workout. And there was a part of me that was just. beating myself up going, "Oh man, you. just missed four days. you didn't work. out like oh man you know you have got. the discipline whatever it is that. doesn't make you want to get back on it. that just makes you feel worse whereas.

then I gave myself grace by the end of. it and I was like look you know what I. needed some time off I also slept really. well I also didn't get sick cuz I wasn't. pushing myself and by the way I'm really. excited to get back to working out this. week when I'm home because I've had a. bit of a break and my body needed it. while I was traveling and all of a. sudden you're refreshed and so there's. so much truth in the fact that guilt. blocks growthm Mhm. You don't guilt. yourself into becoming better. It. doesn't work that way. You encourage. yourself. Like you got to talk to. yourself. I think they've done studies.

where they looked at how teachers talk. to students. And you used to be a. teacher. Teachers who just told their. students that they weren't smart or they. didn't figure it out. That never made a. student better. Student who believed. that their teacher believed in them made. a huge difference to their result in. their psychology. Absolutely. The big. lesson that we were taught when speaking. with children was address the behavior, not the student. M so if a student was. doing something that they shouldn't be. doing, you'd be like, "Hey, that choice, I'm not a fan of that choice. Can we can. we can we crumple up that choice and.

throw it in the garbage?" You you're a. great person, but I can't see how great. you are when you make that choice. And I. realiz is when we speak to ourselves, we're still speaking to a little. 8-year-old inside of us. There's an. inner child there that needs to be. spoken with love and grace. And it's not. coddling. It's actually realizing that. we have to be our own best friend. We. have to be our own biggest advocate. and. view it through the lens of is it. helpful? Are we is it really helpful. especially for folks who are like. self-employed or trying to do things. Is. it helpful to to continually guilt.

yourself to do stuff? Do you get better. results that way? Is it taking you where. you want to go? Or can we have the. conversation of like, hey, okay, you. know what? You were making a lot of. progress working out. You know, you were. seeing great things happen and now all. of a sudden you got to go on tour and. now it may be eating room service and it. may be sleeping in different time zones. and that's okay. that's what this. requires and then we'll get back to the. other stuff and that's totally good. And. for me it's always like hey maybe one. more game of FIFA before we start and. then for me the big one was like hey.

let's go back in our history you've been. you've been humble the poet. self-employed for 15 years now have you. ever played too many video games and. messed up? Did you ever mess up a. deadline? Did you ever mess up an. opportunity because you played too many. video games? No. Let's trust us. Let's. trust ourselves. go back into your own. history and let that be the support and. to speak to these words because a lot of. these voices are not ours. They sound. like us. They were ghostwritten by other. people. These these criticisms were. somebody else and they just sound like. they're our voice and we give them.

value. We don't have to believe. everything we think because those. thoughts are often there just to keep us. in stasis. It's like, well, we're going. to try to scare you, guilt you to stay. where you are because if you try. something new, we consider something new. dangerous. Yeah. And it's not. It leads. nicely onto the next thing I wanted to. pick out, which you said, don't should. all over yourself. Yes. So, I should be. more productive. I should be happier. I. should have this figured out by now. I. should work out 5 days a week, even when. I'm traveling. I should never make. mistakes. I should be in a relationship.

by now. I think we have so many shoulds. And a should, as you clearly say, doesn't create a shift. None of us do. more when we think we should do. something. And you know what? Don't you. feel this way that we all know what we. need to do? Like even when I'm given a. keynote, when I'm recording a podcast, in my head I'm thinking everyone already. knows what they need to do. Most people. unless you something specific like I'm. trying to figure out how to build a. business and I need to I don't I may not. know. But it's like most of us know what.

we need to change in our life. Like. we're actually quite aware of it. What. is the block from I know to I am. And in. the middle it's like the should is what. ruins it almost. Yeah. Right. We keep. saying I should work out four times a. week because we know we should. Yeah. But then why is the should the block? I. think the should is the language of. perfectionism. And you know it's the. idea that everything needs to be perfect. because we're afraid. And one thing that.

we do to try to counter this fear is. have control. So it should become the. language perfectionism. Perfectionism. gives us the illusion of control. But. the reality is perfectionism isn't about. making things better. It's about finding. flaws easier. So we what we start to do. is constantly look for flaws. And that. way that keeps us from having to do. stuff, right? So a lot the same way I'm. saying curiosity is courage in disguise. A lot of this is fear in disguise. You. know what it really what we're really. just addressing is the fact that we're. scared. And here's the thing. It's okay.

to be scared. And what I would encourage. anyone to look at is like maybe the step. you're trying to take is just too big. And maybe we got to break it down into. something a little bit more manageable. into baby steps. And if those baby steps. feel too big, let's do micro baby steps. Then let's do micro baby tiptoes. Let's. keep going smaller and smaller until. that next step feels manageable. Because. the only thing we have to do is know. what that next step is and try it. And I. think this goes back to having grace for. ourselves. And this is why we overthink. Again, this goes back to this idea that.

we're so afraid that we're going to. trick ourselves to think that we're. solving a problem by constantly running. it on a treadmill and going through a. loop. And now we're just inventing new. problems to solve them. And all of that. results in nothing. When it comes to. anxious feelings, you can't think your. way out of them. You have to act your. way out of them. You know, there's there. is something brilliant about Nike saying. just do it. It really is just do it. It. really is feel the fear and do it. anyways. And again, these are catchy. lines that we've heard a million times. Our body isn't going to immediately.

accept them. We have to start small and. practice that every day and say, you. know, for five minutes, I am going to. just do it. I do jiu-jitsu. And it was. really interesting cuz this actually. helped. And probably because I was in a. physical situation. I'm rolling with. somebody who has many more years ahead. of me. And we're rolling. And in the. middle of the role, he goes, "You're. thinking too much. It's okay. We all. make mistakes.". And instantly it was like, "Okay, stop. strategizing. Just trust whatever I'm. doing." Knowing that I don't have a.

chance against this guy regardless. But. what he was he was addressing was the. pauses and the avoidance that I was. doing in real time. And now when I'm. sending a text message, sending an. email, making a request, I keep hearing. his voice. It's like, stop thinking so. much. We all are going to make mistakes. The fear is the mistake. I might use I. might say the wrong thing if I ask Jay. for this favor. Uh let me reread it and. proofread it 45 times. Let me run it. through Chad JPT. Let me do all of these. things. And it's like but what we're.

just doing is ruminating to avoid the. discomfort. And what we're really saying. is this is hard. I don't want to do it. And that's okay. This is hard. I don't. want to do it. That is a normal human. feeling. But we have to go through that. in order for us to grow. We'll start by. being kind to ourselves. Like it is. hard. let's take a break, but let's. address it. And sometimes it might be. like, hey, we'll do it first thing in. the morning when we're the most fresh. That concept, swallow the frog. We'll do. that now. Or it could be like, hey, maybe this is too big of a step. Maybe.

today step one is this. And that really, and it is a reflection, it'll go back to. the people that we're around. If we're. around people that we can share this. stuff with and they speak to us with. that same level of grace, which is like, no, like you did a lot today. It really. matters. And I remember this in the. beginning of my career. I came up with. Lily Singh, you know, who we both know. And as you know, one of the hardest. workers I've ever seen. 100% 100%. And. it really signaled to me how hard I. needed to work. And it was always this.

idea that if I wasn't working hard. enough, she may think less of me. And. then fast forward during the pandemic, I. remember us having a call and she's. like, "Look, like your your only job. right now is like stay healthy and stay. in a good place. Don't try to be. productive." We've been signaled that we. need to be productive all the time. We. there's honor in suffering. There's. honor in burning out. It's a badge of. honor. And it's like it's not a badge of. honor. It's a warning sign that we're. abandoning ourselves by doing too much.

Especially in a society that we live in. where there isn't the word enough. doesn't exist when it comes to our. productivity. So, it's really important. to to surround yourself around people. who are doing the same work can have the. same language. Even if you're the first. person to start these conversations, when you're kinder to someone else, it'll encourage them to be kinder to you. as well. Yeah. And I think it's hard. because I'll give an example. Like I. landed at Sunday, I would have got into. bed by like 1:00 a.m. And I knew I had a. workout at 8:00 a.m. in the morning. scheduled. And everything about me was.

like, I've been on the road. I'm tired. I've been working. It's all work. I gave. four keynotes in four days, podcasts. But what was really interesting is that. I'm at a place in my life where I've. actually realized that waking up and. working out actually sets me up to have. more energy throughout the day. So now. I'm fully convinced. Now if this was. literally 3 or 4 years ago, I would have. said, "No, I need to have grace on. myself. I'm going to let myself lie in. I'm not going to work out. Maybe I won't. even work out for 2, three days cuz I.

deserve a break." The thing is that. actually didn't make me stronger or more. resilient. It actually made me more. sluggish. It actually slowed me down. So. sometimes grace is actually choosing. something that's good for you even if it. doesn't feel good. Absolutely. And I. said it's not coddling. It can be like, hey, you don't you you don't want to go. to the gym today. You don't want to work. out with the trainer. Let's just go for. 5 minutes and if you don't like it, you. can go home. Yeah. And then once you get. in, you know, it's going to continue.

Yeah. And I'm I'm definitely like that. where, you know, I'm I'm doing all the. mental gymnastics like, oh, I ate and. it's only been 43 minutes. I can't go to. jiu-jitsu. I might throw up on somebody. I can't. You're making all these excuses. and then the the graceful voice is like, "Hey, just show up. Try it out for a. couple of minutes. If you don't feel. good, sit against the wall. We see. people doing it all the time." And the. truth is, and then I go back to my. history. You have always not wanted to. go. You have never regretted going. Yes. Exactly. Even when I've gotten hurt, I. didn't regret going. And I think that's.

the really important thing when it comes. to this grace. We're not coddling. ourselves. We're being our best friend. and we're and we're encouraging. ourselves to do it. And you're. absolutely right. Right? And this is how. I I would like us to view mental health. the same way. Let's train it. Let's. constantly pick things that are diff the. same way you're lifting a heavy weight. to tear your muscles and then have them. heal to grow bigger. Let's continually. put ourselves in challenging situations. Whether it's a cold shower, whether it's. holding a yoga pose, whether it's doing, you know, calf raises until you start. feeling the burn. Any type of movement,

any type of challenge where your mind is. like, I can't do anymore. Like, hey, let's just try to stay in a little bit. longer. let's do these things because. this will help build resilience and and. it's one of the things in addition to. creating connection in in addition to. practicing that we do and we're. realizing I don't want to do it totally. understand you don't want to do it but. try it and see how you feel afterwards. because just like working out the harder. the workout the easier the day and let's. apply that to our mental health let's. treat our mental health like a muscle. the more we work it early the easier the.

rest of the day will be I've always been. saying that there's like there's two. types of. One needs to do the easy thing first to. build confidence and get to the hard. challenge. And there's other people that. need to do the hard thing first. They. need to throw themselves into the deep. end in order to build confidence. And. it's really important to know which one. you are. Because some people, if you are. someone who needs to do the hard thing. first and you keep trying to build up. confidence through small things, you'll.

actually never ever get to the hard. thing. Or you'll feel like you'll take. on a challenge that isn't big enough. Yes. And if you're someone who's like, "Oh my god, I need baby steps and now. your friend over here is lifting like 10. times as much as you are. Now you're. pushing yourself." You won't do it. either. And that's why it's such a. individual journey. But I find so much. anxiety is around timelines. It's all. around comparison. And I was thinking. about this when you're at school, the.

one thing you don't have anxiety about. as much is people being ahead of you or. people having figured something out. because everyone goes from seventh grade. to 8th grade to 9th grade. All of a. sudden when you graduate now, someone's. getting promoted first and someone's. getting promoted last. Someone's getting. engaged first and someone's getting. engaged last. Someone got the beautiful. new apartment and someone is still. living with their parents. All of a. sudden, now there's this timeline effect.

where I'm now anxious because I'm not 30. and married and making six figures and. whatever it may be, building a family. How do you deal with that existential. anxiety? Because this anxiety is more. than the anxiety of just I'm anxious. about talking to these people. I'm. anxious about this friend. This is like. this existential anxiety that sometimes. we just don't even want to think about, but it's in the back of our mind. Crap. I'm 30 and I'm not married. I'm 40 and I. don't have kids. Right. Yeah. I think.

the first thing most definitely and and. I love how you talked about school and. how that was our world. The classroom or. maybe the size of school was our world. and that made a lot of sense for maybe. you know up until the last 20 years. Social media has expanded our world. where now we are endlessly being exposed. to people who are living lives. completely different from us and now. we're comparing ourselves to that. And. so when we hear the cliche line. comparison is the thief of joy. We're. constantly stealing our joy by spending. time on social media and comparing.

ourselves to people and we're not even. comparing ourselves to a real thing. We're comparing our behind the scenes to. this highlight reel of what we put on. social media. So the first thing I would. say is reduce the amount of exposure you. have to compare yourself to other. people. I would definitely make efforts. to reduce my social media consumption. That would make a huge thing. I think. also the more we commit to understanding. who we are, the more we start to realize. that we need to design and develop a. life for ourselves. I think currently. we're just trying to deal with life. And.

I think as we commit to a mental health. journey and and voluntarily doing. challenging things, we start to develop. life and we start to understand what. matters to us. for you, for me. As we go. through these different challenges, we're like, "Wait, this this is the shoe. that fits me. This is the one that. doesn't. Oh, I can afford the fancy. sports car, but I realize that really. isn't for me. But I definitely want to. make sure I have a great hot tub or I. want to definitely make sure I have uh, you know, I have a friend who just sold. a company and I was like, "Oh, what are. you going to do?" He goes, "I'm going to. get my mom a personal trainer so she can.

open a jar until she's 90." And it's. like, this is someone who knows his. priorities. That's the first spend with. the money. And that only comes through. self-awareness. Self-awareness comes. through paying attention to yourself and. collecting information. That's going to. come that when we have these anxious. feelings, these are revealing things. You know, triggers are a road map. They're telling us where the work can be. done. So, we have to abandon these ideas. that like, oh, trigger warning. I have. to avoid my triggers. Oh, I have to. constantly be in a safe space. That's.

just us rearranging life to never gain. And we're denying ourselves that. self-awareness. So I really think. self-awareness is going to be the first. thing. So now and again this is not. going to make it all go away. I still. get jealous when I see people on social. media. I think the other thing we have. to realize is envy helps us understand. what authentically matters to us. Let's. say for example I I watch you know I. watch your show regularly. You got a. couple of guests on. Then all of a. sudden a certain guest comes on and. let's say Rick Rubin comes on. I'm like.

oh I am so jealous. I wish I was in the. room with Jay. I wish I knew this was. happening. I wish I could have called. Jay. I wish I could have stood in the. corner when I had that. What that's. doing is that's not a bad thing to. experience. That's teaching me that, okay, something that Rick says matters. to me, so I should go deeper into that. because it teach me what's important. versus if you have another guest on, who. am I, oh that's cool, but I'm not really. excited about that. So, I think there's. something there that I think is really. important. And I think the other thing. that's really important is realizing, are we trying to catch up or are we.

trying to improve? Are we trying to keep. up with other people? And I think very. often and and going back to our. families, it really often isn't to we're. not doing things to keep our make our. family happy. We're doing things to keep. them off our back, right? And I think. there's there's definitely this when it. comes to like, you know, being out here, going to events, dressing up, all of. this is like, are we doing this to even. stand out at the party or are we doing. this to make sure we don't feel. irrelevant that we we we're falling. behind? And I think paying attention to. that will challenge us to go back to.

what are our unique values? What are the. things that we actually care about? And. the more we discover that, the more we. can share that with people. And and for. me, that also brings me into the thought. of the gap between fitting in and. belonging. We create so much stress. trying to fit in. And we have to wear. masks to fit in. And that is definitely. going to feed anxious feelings. Instead, if we have a better understanding of who. we are, if we're constantly exploring. this universe inside of us, we know who. we are and we can find people that we.

feel comfortable being around where we. belong. To the quote in the book that I. say, everybody is a social butterfly and. maybe you're just in the wrong garden. And I think that's really important. versus the self-identifying of I'm. socially anxious. It's like or you're. just in a room with the wrong people. That's so good. You know, if you really. enjoy Dungeons and Dragons, go in a room. full of people who play that game. All. of a sudden, there won't be as much. social anxiety as you may feel if you're.

in a room full of people who work in. finance or full of uh Hollywood stars. And I think that's a really important. thing is like go where you belong. Focus. on where you authentically belong. And. that requires a depth because it may not. just be like, "Oh, well, I'm South. Asian. I should be around South Asians.". It's like, no, who am I? You know, I. enjoy art. I should be around more folks. who love art. I enjoy MMA. I should be. around more folks that love MMA. I enjoy. playing certain video games. I should be. around people who play those games. It's. it's the deeper you understand yourself,

the more you can share. And it's really. important because we want to be seen. We. want to be heard. But the only way we. can authentically be seen and heard is. if we show people who we authentically. are. And you can't be yourself if you. don't know yourself. I love that. I. mean, that is such a big one because I. hear that so often and I think you're so. right. Most people are going to events. that they don't even want to go to. They're hanging around people that they. don't want to hang around. And then. we're wondering why we're socially. anxious. And we also say that person's. an introvert or they feel like an.

introvert. And someone who knows them. goes they're not an introvert. They're. really loud around their people. Like. that person is wild around their people. Absolutely. It's just right now they're. not around their people. And you have. this beautiful quote in here. You say. the only way people can accept the real. you is if you show them the real you. And I think that's what it is. Is that. sometimes we don't even know the people. that are around us because if that's not. their vibe, if that's not their crew of. people, they're never showing the real. them. And I know that for me, even in a.

crowd full of people, I'll try and find. the person who wants to have a deep. spiritual conversation. The amount of. time me and you and Jeremy are good. friends. end up together at parties, right? So, when we're at a party and I. know Humble and Jeremy are going to be. there, I know we're going to find a. little corner to have like a. conversation, a discussion, a debate, a. a thought pro, like that's what's going. to happen. And that's why I don't feel. out of place at the party. But if you. expected me to just kind of have two.

second conversations with lots of people. and just hang around, that that's not my. that's not how I like to spend my time. Absolutely. And I've got to look for I. can still be at a big party. and look. for my community. And I think again it. goes back to what you're saying is. knowing yourself where people just go, "Oh no, I just don't like big parties.". It's like, "No, no, no." But there's a. way in every space, in every world. It's. kind of like people who have judgments. about New York or LA or London or. whatever it is. Like we can have these. broadstrokes judgments and it's like,

"No, you can create what you want here. It does exist. It just depends on if it. exists in the way you want to create it. and how it works for you. But let's not. sit around here and go, "I'm just not. going to it's not possible in this. place." Cuz that's like saying one day. you're going to get to the point where. you go, "This is no one no one's my type. on planet Earth." Right. And it's like. that's not a healthy mindset to have. Absolutely. And it goes back to that. idea of judging again. We we we start to. judge, which is a language of fear, and. we start to limit. We like, "Oh, no. I'. I've met three people at this party.

This isn't my crowd." And also for folks. listening who are thinking, well, what. about, you know, I'm at work or I have. to wear a certain mask to to survive. those places. I completely understand, right? And the best way to counter that. is when you're done with that, go to a. place you belong. We all have to be in. places and we all have to play the game. to fit in. Sometimes it's not, you know, we have to survive and that might be. part of the game, but then to counteract. that, to avoid burning out by doing. that, go ahead and be in a situation. where you belong. Be with your people.

be with your tribe. And again, it still. starts internally by figuring out who. you authentically are. Well said. There's one quote that I picked out here. just because I loved it. You said, "A. broken heart is an open heart." And that. said so much to me because I felt that. if my heart's ever been broken, it's. only led me to more compassion, more. context. But I wanted to hear what why. you were inspired to write our broken. heart is an open heart. I think for me.

specifically it's it's this idea that. when you know the idea in your head. doesn't match the idea in front of you. like our expectations of life don't. match the reality. That's kind of when. we what we define as unhappiness. And I. think that's an opportunity to a you. know on a lower vibration feel sorry for. ourselves and and and reaffirm that life. is so challenging, life is so difficult. But there's also an opportunity to grow. You know, when once we let go of that. idea, I'm like, well, there's something. to grow from here. So, when our heart is.

broken, when everything that we thought. was is no longer the case, whether it's. a broken relationship, whether it's. losing something you care about, losing. an identity, losing money, whatever it. may be, there's an opportunity to grow. in there. It's almost like a broken. heart is an open mind. Like that idea. that now I can actually allow for life. It's like now you're oh now we're paying. attention. All of a sudden things aren't. moving according to plan and now we're. actually focused and we're present and.

we're paying attention to things and. there's a lot of opportunity there. versus just assuming everything was. going to be on autopilot. This idea of. the happily ever after, you know, these. linear ideas. It's like no, we're going. to continually be in these cycles and. anticipate things happening. And. everybody listening knows how. transformative that first heartbreak. was, whatever it may be. And how much. resilience can come from the moment it. happens, you're like, I can't I can't be. here anymore. I can't deal with this. And then as time goes by, we start. building resilience from it. And then.

all of a sudden, we are a much more. rounded three-dimensional version of. ourselves because of it. These hard. times that form us and formulate us as. people. And and this is why it's the. idea of like look, obviously I don't. want to have super heavy days every. single day, but I got to be able to. trust myself to to deal with them or at. least try my best to deal with them and. at the very least not sabotage myself by. not sleeping enough, not eating the.

right food, not drinking enough water, not hanging out with people that that. give me energy. And I think that there's. something important there. So, I always. look at it, especially as as my life has. progressed where it's like the things. that are breaking my heart right now are. absolutely out of control. The people. that I care about who have health. issues, there's nothing I can do. I. catch myself avoiding messages, getting. updates on some of these folks cuz it. just it breaks my heart to think about. and it's like this is me avoiding. because it's so overwhelming. But I. speak to myself with grace and say, "Look, it's overwhelming. Let's get you.

back to where you got to get to. Let's. feel better and then we're going to lean. into this. we have to lean into this. because there's going to be some growth. that comes from it. The fact that this. impacts you so much, it's a sign that. you care and that's beautiful because we. need to care about more things in this. life. I think the anxiety around aging. and death for ourselves and the people. we love is without a doubt the anxiety. we avoid the most. Right? The anxiety of. oh my god, I'm getting older. Oh my god,

someone in my life is unwell, diseased. God, someone just died. like there's. such an anxiety around that. What have. you found to be helpful at that time as. you're going through it? What would you. wish you would have been told or what do. you wish people would hear in order to. help soothe that anxiety? There was. something beautiful I heard from a. scientist on Instagram and I don't. remember her name. She said, you know, life is not beginning and ending. Life.

began once, you know, and we're all a. part of it. We don't have a life. We are. life. We're a drop in this ocean. And I. think there's something really beautiful. about that, which is, you know, this is. depending on your beliefs, this can be a. vacation from not existing. And we can. choose this existence to be whatever we. want it to be. And I think for me, it's. been realizing and actually have a. tattoo on my chest inverted so I can. read it in the mirror. It says, "At any. moment you're dust." And it was inspired.

by a friend who had said it, but another. friend, and I specifically remember. where I was when he said, he goes, "Our. problems are only real because we forget. we're going to die." And when we think. about all these things, we're zooming in. so much into our lives, but it's like, we've heard the cliche, will this matter. in 5 years, 10 years? Will it matter in. 90 years? Will it matter in 200 years? You know, are any of us making it out of. this alive? And I think there's. something really beautiful about that. where it's like we can only enjoy a. movie because we know it's going to end.

You know, if it if it was going on. forever, if it was one of those TV shows. that go on forever, we may not. appreciate it as much. It's the. finiteism of it. And I think that has to. do with life as well. In the book, I. make a lot of jokes and one of the big. jokes is the secret pill to get rid of. anxiety. I make up a joke about it, but. at the end, I'm like, the actual magic. pill is remember you're going to die. when you're in these moments that just. feel completely overwhelming, if you can. remember, not just with your brain, but. with your body that you were going to.

die. And we have so many examples of. that in history with people who have. experienced near-death experiences and. then have thrived because they realized, I'm here for a deeper purpose. I'm here. for a bigger purpose. I survive, you. know, 50 Cent survived nine shots and. all of a sudden thrived in his career. It's like that's the worst it can get. me not existing. So, let's let's go. It's not no longer fear of. embarrassment, fear of rejection, fear. of not being seen because some of these. are the things that we just forget. We're living creatures that won't be.

here forever. And I think reminding. yourself that is really important. And. and there's a, you know, a Buddhist and. Eastern philosophy around make it your. goal to remember your mortality five. times a day and watch the quality of. your life improve. Allow that. Make that part of the. mantra. Make that part of the daily. affirmations that I won't be here. forever. Pick the year that you know. like in the year 2235 neither of us will. be here. Okay, let's remember that when.

we're worried about sending a text. message and not getting a reply or when. we worried about putting ourselves out. there and potentially getting rejected. or when we worried about anything else. And I think that's really important. This isn't to minimize anybody's. problems. It's to minimize the. unnecessary stress that we may come with. that. And then we can realize that the. stress isn't holding us back. The stress. can actually stretch us to reveal our. potential of who we can actually be. Pressure builds diamonds. We can really. become something beautiful and massive.

from this. When we no longer view. challenges as an attack on our. existence, but instead an opportunity. for us to grow, for us to thrive, for us. to increase our capacity, to not only be. amazing to ourselves, but to be amazed. to other people. And there's a reason. why stoicism has mmentoto mori. There's. a reason why Buddhism has the statement. you shared. There's a reason why these. wisdom traditions will remind us of that. impermanence and and insignificance to.

some degree. And again, I loved what you. said. It's not in a negative way. It's. not in a morbid way. It's actually to. free yourself of the pressure and stress. you put on yourself. Absolutely. And and. I think cuz even now like we have these. we have these concepts of like legacy, you know what I mean? Like there's. there's also this stretch of like, oh, I. want to be alive after I'm not alive. And it's like these are stories that. we're being told that that we think are. important. And I remember seeing an. interview with Alex Ramoszi where he. spoke about like when's the last time. you thought about the Queen of England, you know, she was really popular and.

then she passed away and and we're not. thinking about her on a we don't need to. have legacy, you know, let's enjoy what. we have while we have the only thing we. have is the present. Especially when we. speak about Eastern philosophy, especially for people listening here, it. really is us having to unlearn a lot of. the stories that we were told. We were. told these linear stories. Do this, do. this, do this, get over this hump, and. then everything will be smooth sailing. It will be happily ever after. You can. ride off into the sunset. Everything. will be great. And it's like, no, there's always a day after happily ever. after. And instead of wishing for an.

easier life, let's work towards being. able to hold more weight because the. weight's going to keep coming. And just. as you're working out, 15 years from. now, the amount of effort you put. working out will have to increase just. for you to maintain where you're at. So, it's the same thing with our mental. health. Right now, our avoiding, our. distracting, our medicating is us. maintaining. And by all means, maintain, but at some point, we want to get to the. point where we're actually growing from. it. And that's going to require us. leaning into things being more.

difficult, having more difficult. conversations, acknowledging difficult. realities like our death. Homo the poet. The book is called Unanxious: 50 Simple. Truths to help overthinkers feel less. stress and more calm. As always, I love. your books, Humble, because the way you. divide up these 50 lessons are so. beautiful and it's so easy to digest, easy to understand. There's highlighted. statements, there's quotes. Each section. of the 50 is like, you know, two, three. pages. Thank you for always making.

complex, big, difficult topics simple, easy, and accessible for everyone to. understand. Congratulations. Thank you, man. I just want to thank you like you. this is also a moment of like closing. the loop for me cuz it's you know you. you gave me a beautiful blurb on the. book but it was because I was. brainstorming the ideas to you over. dinner and you were having authentic. reactions to them and it was like this. journey for the last two and a half. years writing this book there's also. just these moments of you coming to.

visit in New York us having a meal us. having playing a lot of FIFA and um and. just for the record I want everyone want. to know Jay is the most frustrating. person to play FIFA with because. whenever you score on him, he'll. congratulate you. He'll be like, "Great. job. That was an awesome goal. He'll. still beat you, but he'll do that." So, it's like you can't even like talk crap. to him. It's so frustrating to like play. somebody who beats you, but doesn't hold. space for crap talk. Instead, he'll just. like he'll, "Oh, let's watch the replay. of that goal you got on me. That was so.

good." And then he'll score five more. goals on me. And it's so it's extremely. frustrating. And but one thing that you. said the last time we played is I had. music playing. I had the volume down and. then you're like this feels different. If we turn the music off and we put the. the volume on the game, you're like, "Oh, I like this. This gives you the. right type of anxiety." Yeah. What I. realized is while writing this book, I. just have all these milestones of having. all these different hangouts with you. and and running these ideas with you. And then I feel like today having this.

conversation with you, having the book. in in your hand right now, it's this. full circle moment. it kind of closes. the loop. And I think it's that journey. It really is that journey that matters. less than, oh, I have a book out now and. I have to worry about how the book does. It's like, no, I got to have so much fun. doing this with some of my favorite. people. And you definitely are one of. those people. So, I deeply appreciate. you for being endlessly supportive of. this and all my projects, man. No, man. It was it was fun. It was it was a the. best thing is hearing about your friends. working on stuff and working on it with.

them. and you do the same for me and. just I think that is the joy of it like. and you were right that is the best part. about it and the fact that now people. can dive into it it's beautiful and yeah. I wrote on the front cover three pages. in you'll feel £,000 lighter and I. really feel that way it's it's just made. so simple it's made so easy and. digestible and I think that's what we. all need right now the world's complex. enough you talk about that in the book. family life it's all complex enough we. don't need growth to be complex Yes,

especially now with change, it's just. please remember the change isn't the. enemy. Us resisting this change is is. what's going to give us more anxious. feelings. The change is going to happen. regardless. Change is a promise. It's a. constant wherever you are in the world. We're all experiencing a lot of change. and that's okay. And if it gets. overwhelming, that's also okay. But. please, the more we resist, the tighter. we hold against it, the more that we're. just doing damage to ourselves. It's not. going to be helpful. So, let's embrace. the change that's happening. Be curious.

about the change because that's where. our courage can be. Well said. And grab. a copy of the book Unxious. It's. available right now. Make sure you. follow Humble across social media if you. don't already. And Humble, I hope you. come back many, many more times to have. more of these conversations. And I can't. wait to hang this weekend and and chat. more as well, my friend. So, thank you, brother. Thank you so much. Super proud. of you and really grateful for what. you're doing in the world and excited. for people to read this. Thank you, man. Thank you, brother. If this is the year.

that you're trying to get creative, you're trying to build more, I need you. to listen to this episode with Rick. Rubin on how to break into your most. creative self, how to use unconventional. methods that lead to success, and the. secret to genuinely loving what you do. If you're trying to find your passion. and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is. the one for you. Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value. Like as. an artist, if you like it, that's all of. the value.