Relationship Expert Reveals The Hidden Link Between Your Childhood & Relationship Struggles!

When you hear all the litany of reasons. remind you of why you're not worthy, right? We notice it, we pull our. attention away. Doesn't mean that I'm. going to feel worthy immediately. Does. mean though that I can show up and begin. to show up in actions of worthiness. How. might someone who is worthy treat. themselves generally or in this moment? And if we weaken that belief network by. pulling our attention away every time it. fires, and if we're now strengthening a. new belief network, now we have the. beginnings of a new network that will. over time take over where that old.

network existed. The number one health and wellness. podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The. one, the only Jay Shetty. Let's dive straight in. You start very. emphatically in the book. And the title says you create change. And I think for a lot of people that. hear that, I think a lot of us feel we don't have. the power to change things. We don't. feel we have the ability to change. things. We feel that our life is a. constant bombardment of things happening.

to us, of things that other people do. towards us. And you very boldly state. you create change. I know so many people. who feel like they don't know how to. change, they can't change, they're. stuck. What makes you so certain and conscious. that you can create change? I think too, nowhere is this the reality of being. stuck so prevalent but in our. relationships, I think. And that's. really what inspired this new work is to.

understand why is it because what I. would hear after writing my first book. how to do the work, for many individuals. on the healing journey, oh, I'm I'm. making traction. I'm starting to feel. good in my life and I'm feeling either. ready to be in a relationship or I'm in. a relationship and it's in my. relationship where I'm really stuck. And. similar to what I talked about in my. first book, so much of how we relate is. governed by our subconscious mind, meaning outside of our awareness. So, to. answer your question really simply, I. think why we don't believe we can create.

change is because of everything that's. happening beneath the iceberg, if you. will, or in our subconscious mind, within our relationships. Everything. from beliefs about ourself, as you even. shared in the intro, roles and. identities that we've learned to play, deep wounding, which contain these. moments of nervous system dysregulation. and reactivity. And ultimately, when we. have these chain of events, these. meanings, interpretations that are. subconscious mind is making to the. happenings or not happenings in our. relationship, when that is connected.

then to physiological shifts in my body, those nervous system moments of. dysregulation, and then when we tune in, typically, is either mid-reaction. or somewhere shamefully post-reaction. And until we've paid conscious attention. or simply awareness to all of the. different parts of the story that. contributed to what feels like an. instinctive reaction, I'm compelled held. to do this thing. I can't stop behaving. in this way, or the world continues to.

create the same struggles, the same. feelings, the same cycles. And I think. it then becomes really natural that we. don't feel like we have choice. And I. think how I convince us all that we do. have choice is as we become aware of. what's going on beneath the surface. As. we become aware of the beliefs and the. physiology that is driving those. changes, we can begin to create just a. little bit of space because I mean, I. could sit up here and explain to many. listeners why we don't feel in choice.

Until we embody the practice of being. able to pause before that habitual. reaction, it's going to be really hard. for me to convince us all that we can. create change. But when we have the. tools to view our internal world in a. new way, including our body and all of. the stress reaction that's housed in it, then I think we we do have that. empowered shift where I can possibly. convince you that there is choice and. change possible in your future. Absolutely. One of the things I hear a. lot from our community and our audience.

when I'm talking to people is, "Jay, I'm. just surrounded by toxic family members. I'm trying to change. I'm trying to be. better, but there's someone in my family. who'll always say something at that. dinner that triggers me. There'll be. someone who at the holiday party will. say something to me that will trigger. me. There'll be someone that I'm living. with in the house every day who sees me. meditate, who sees me trying to work. out, but has something condescending to. say. How do I navigate this toxic person. that I can't just distance myself from?

I can't run away from them. They're in. my life. What do I do? And I think an. empowering shift we can make is to even. just first ask ourselves that question, what can we do? Because I think it's. really natural to instinctively say, "Well, I shouldn't have to do anything. if this toxic person could be more. supportive of this positive habit, or if. this person could be a little less. whatever, you know, they're they're. bringing to the table, I could then feel. different." I think the shift of. empowerment happens when we say, "Let's.

assume and even expect that this person. doesn't change, that these comments. continue, the lack of support, whatever. it is." And especially when it's within. our family, I like to offer a bit of. insight. I think a lot of times we do. struggle and we'll continue to struggle, especially within our family, with these long-term relationships, there have been expectations that have. been validated over time. And so, we. really do fall into these kind of. learned dynamics. So, as we begin even.

to shift into something positive for. ourselves, for the relationship, it's. going to challenge the dynamics of the. system. Because what the person on the. other end will be experiencing. is something new. And I'm very. intentionally using that word, because. while we all can create, I mean, I just. made a case for all of the change that. we can create at any time in our life, our nervous system prefers the habitual. And even within these roles in our. relationships, people have learned to. predict that we show up in predictable.

ways. And if and when we don't, it. actually activates now a threat response. based on this new experience that. someone else is having of us. Now, I. went to that description, of course, because sometimes with that awareness, we can engage with the person sharing. that comment with us, with the person. not supporting us in that way. differently. We can have a bit of. compassion, maybe understanding where. they're coming from. We might even shift. our expectation of that person giving us.

the support or, you know, sharing with. us something positive in terms of what. it is that we're doing. If we give up. that expectation, I think a lot of us. can learn to navigate those. relationships, because what causes our. suffering, in my opinion, is the unmet. expectation. But then I of course I want. to just touch quickly on the reality, sometimes of boundary changes, of new. limits, um maybe conversations, topics. that we don't bring to this relationship. if we aren't going to get the support or.

the feedback that we need. We can. actually modify ultimately what it is. that we do or how it is that we engage. with the person. I was talking to. someone I was coaching, and they were. talking about a particular trait that. they saw in their partner. And I said, "Have you seen this trait before?" And. they said, "Yes." And I said, "How many. times have you seen it?" And they. thought about it for a second, and they. said, "Every year we've been together.". And I said, "How long have you been. together?" And they said, "30 years.". And it was really interesting, because. you addressed this at the start of the.

book, this idea that you can't we a lot. of books have told us in the past that. if we change our behavior, it will. somehow change the behavior of the other. person. That if you can mold and be. malleable and manipulate your own words, thoughts, and actions, that somehow it. will create a behavioral response from. someone else. But, I think what you're. saying right now, as well, is that. actually. even if we change our behavior, our. expectation that that is somehow going. to inspire this other individual to do a.

U-turn is actually kind of like a fool's. errand. Like, it doesn't seem to be. something that's going to to show. And I. think that's kind of a hard reality to. accept. We almost feel that we can get. people to change, and they will change. for me, and I am important enough. If. they cared enough, they would change. So, how do we let go of that. expectation? How do we build a process. and a system to actually recognize my. expectation with this individual needs. to shift because I keep seeing the same.

pattern day after day, month after. month, or year after year, but I keep. fooling myself that this will be the. year they change. This will be the month. that it all changes for me. I think a. lot of times we we set that expectation. or have that kind of fantasy for the. future. out of a a protection against the pain. and suffering that being in the. alternate reality of what is happening, the fact that this is a pattern that has. lasted 30-plus years, just to use your. your client as an example.

That would cause a lot of grief, a. reckoning almost, maybe even a new. choice point where this person would be. at a crossroads. Either I remove this. expectation and then modify in terms of. what this relationship is or means to. me, or maybe I determine I can't do. that. And now I might need to shift or. remove myself from the relationship. And. this kind of thinking, which I'm going. to call right now immature thinking, but. not as a kind of derogatory label, more. as a developmental stage. And I think.

it's really emblematic of what happens. in childhood for a lot of us. A lot of. us in childhood spend a lot of time when. we didn't have the physically present or. the emotionally attuned caregiver that. we needed in this kind of fantasy world. because the pain of being rejected, of. not feeling the support and the. attunement that we need is so great. And. I think a lot of us continue that as a. protective pattern into adulthood with.

this idea, right, that I can just. imagine imagine, create this future in. my mind that keeps me separate from the. reality of my present moment. I think a. lot of times then we hang those. expectations on our partner, right, giving them again all of our power, all. of our control even for very. well-intentioned reasons sometimes. We. want to support them. We might want to. see them create change that we know and. they know that they need in their lives.

But again, when we are putting all of. our energy on someone else in that way, not only. do we not have access to it for. ourselves, it's felt by the other. person. Even if it's not directly felt, it's indirectly felt as as a pressure. So again, I want to I want to normalize. I think the tendency to to fantasize, to. wish, even the very well-intentioned. actions that we can take sometimes. seemingly in support of someone else. Though I just acknowledge the reality of.

the many of us who have created very. difficult change in our life. It takes a. daily commitment of having new. experiences that will challenge our. nervous system and learning how to. create change anyway. So with that said, having this idea that someone else can. or will change for us is putting an. unrealistic expectation on that person. because the only person that can create. change is us and our commitment and our. showing up day in day out in action.

ultimately of that change. What are some. of the other ways that our childhood. impacts our current, present, and future. selves? Because I think obviously in. society and culture, we are talking. about this idea of what we went through. as kids shows up in who we are now, but. I think we have quite a rudimentary, basic understanding of how that actually. shows up. And I don't know if we're. always as conscious. I found the more. I've delved into this, the more subtle. my understanding became of myself. So,

for example, at one point I realized. that one of my caregivers had always. given me a lot of love, but they also. made me feel guilty when I didn't. reciprocate that love. And I found. myself replicating that in loving. relationships. It's such a subtle, hidden thing where I would overly give. love, but then express. words or behaviors that would make the. other person feel guilty if I didn't. feel like they lived up to my version of. it. And it took me a while to really. recognize that, to heal that, to remove. that from my vocabulary, my behavior.

But knowing that it wasn't something. that was bad about me or that I'd. created or that I could blame and. recognize was was so powerful, but what. are the ways in which our early. childhood experiences are affecting our. current relationships and of course. future relationships? I think this this. conversation into the subtlety of it is. is so foundationally important cuz I. know that there's a lot of us, especially, you know, as we kind of. progress through adulthood, that has. this idea that, well, childhood is. decades ago. It's actually a space that.

I don't want to go back to, right? I'm. an adult now, and it doesn't impact me. Cuz I do think we look for the kind of. more obvious signs. But there are so. many kind of ways in which from what we. were made in childhood to directly or. indirectly think about ourself, ultimately becomes those deep-rooted. beliefs that we carry and continue to. think about ourselves into adulthood. In. terms of our emotions, the way in which. we were allowed to express our emotions, the support we had in which navigating.

our emotions, simply the level of. attunement that our caregivers gave us. will directly impact our current. relationship in adulthood with our. emotions and our ability to be. responsively present to them as opposed. to reactive. And the way those. identities that you talked about. earlier, the way in which we've learned. in childhood to connect or relate, which. for a lot of us meant shoving down parts. of ourself expression, right? Not. showing certain aspects of our thoughts,

of our emotions, of our just general. self, and or amplifying. other aspects. So really simply, how at. one time we had to connect with or. relate to another individual ultimately. becomes those same roles that we play in. our current relationship. So when we. begin to truly understand not only the. individual impact, right? Do I know. myself? Do I know how to navigate my. emotions? Do I know how to give and. receive support in in a relationship? To. then relationally, who am I? So much is.

a a remnant or an artifact in my opinion. of who we once had to be, which is why. we have an epidemic in a sense of adults. who don't know themselves, who don't. have the emotional resilience that they. need to remain responsive to their. emotions and who are showing up in all. of these, you know, kind of masks, playing all of these, you know, roles, and are feeling deeply unfulfilled, even. those of us that are actively in. relationships. Yeah, I feel like there's.

this contention between a lot of us in. relationships are fighting for who we. were. Like there's a defense to this is. how I've been raised, this is what I. think is right, this is what I've been. told, these are my beliefs. And then. there's another part of us that's trying. to then cater to and sway towards, oh. no, but I know I need to take on some of. yours as well, and that kind of often. creates a bit of conflict on an identity. level because we're wondering, well, what parts of myself do I leave behind?

But then am I trading for their values? Then are their values right? How do you. kind of make sense of all of that. because it seems like you've got your. early childhood impact, the person you. have a relationship with has their early. childhood impact. You've now become. adults, now you're interacting. There's. a lot of complexity there because you. may not even be aware of your own, let. alone they may not be aware of theirs, and so you don't have any context of. theirs. So it feels like there's a lot. of unknown unknowns in a lot of.

relationships, and then you're fighting. about the dishes or the the the, you. know, the bills or you're fighting about. something that feels very current. But. would you say that actually a lot of it. is based on pre-existing. uh data? I think you beautifully just. described why relationships are so. complicated, why as I said in the. beginning, so many of us continue to. struggle wherever we are in our healing. journey within our relationships because. we do have all of these influences, many. of which that are out of out of sight.

And knowing for ourself, of course, because we can only, you know, receive. information that partners or potential. partners are sharing, but I feel like. the individual journey of awareness of. even first reckoning with the. possibility that our past is impacting. us, right? And then getting really. present to what habits and patterns we. are carrying in to our relationship. And. then once I think we get really clear in. terms of what is on our side of the.

street, then we can simply, before we. know the details of kind of what is in. the subconscious world of our potential. partners or our loved ones, we can at. least have awareness that they have that. world, right? That many of the fights. that we're having, like you're sharing, many fights I have had over dishes isn't. necessarily about dishes at all. For me. personally, I know that there was a a. lot of reactivity that I used to have. when I would get home from work and I. would come home and dishes weren't done.

in the sink. And for me again, all. beneath the iceberg what was happening. is I went through as if I was. removed or brought right back in time to. childhood where I lacked the emotionally. attuned caregiver. Though I had a. caregiver who was very the way she. expressed love, my mom, was through. daily self-care, making sure that there. was dinner on the table, making sure. that the dishes were done. Those were. not chores that I had as children. So. for me, I have this belief that those. acts of service.

communicate someone's consideration of. me, someone's love and support of me. So. now flash forward in time when those. kind of household duties aren't done, regardless of how my partner is showing. up and there were many moments where I. was welcomed home with support, with. interest, with curiosity, how was my day. going, open for me to talk and share how. my day went, yet my laser focus on the. lack of the dishes being done and the. fact that that brought me back as if I. was the child who didn't have that level.

of attunement even though it was. available in my adult moment, it was as. if my focus deleted it. I was back in. time, I was wounded and I reacted right. from that place. So just using my. example, your example, I think all of. these really beautifully give us when a. moment in time elicits a really big. reaction and this isn't to say, I want. to be really careful here, the emotion. that I was feeling in the moment of the. dishes was very real. Physiologically,

right? I had tension in my muscles, my. heart was racing, I was having an. emotion. It's not to shame ourselves in. that moment. Going back in time doesn't. negate the reality of the emotional. experience that we're having, which is. why a lot of us feel out of control, feel like we can't choose a responsive. choice, feel like we are instinctually. kind of compelled to react in that one. way, though we do have that choice. If. we can teach ourself again that.

separation, if we can understand that. big emotions are real, though a lot of. times do indicate something from an. earlier time, and a lot of times it. explains why our reaction can be on the. more immature, again, just developmental. side of of things. Yeah, no, I'm so glad you ended because. I think that is such a. a poignant example of how this all. works, and it's nice to take something. as simple as. a visual of a dish and then where that. comes from. What do we do with that awareness, though, Nicole? Like, what do we do with.

that awareness? Because I think. a lot of people will recognize, oh, got. it. I've just heard what Nicole said. Yeah, that's right. When my partner does. X, it reminds me of how my parent did Y. Or when my partner doesn't do. Y, it reminds me of when my parent did. X. Or whatever it may be, that version. that you have while you're listening. right now. And for everyone who's. listening and watching, I think we go, I. see that, but it's I've crossed that. bridge so many times that it's I've got. so used to feeling that it's not only is.

it real, but it's true to me. That if. someone doesn't do the dishes, they. don't care about me. Like, we've put. that meaning to it, right? We've. ascribed that very. deep self-worth. to an act, right? Because of the amount. of times that it's gone on and on and. on. Let's say we're fortunate enough to even. get that awareness, because even that. requires so much work to even be able to. admit that even though it's real, even. though I feel it, even though it feels. true,

that it necessarily isn't true. It's. just a belief that I've built over time. What do I do with that awareness because. I feel so conditioned by it? I see if I. feel so stuck in it, and guess what? My. partner still doesn't do the dishes even. when they understand this. So, where. where do I go from there? What do I do? Well, I think that first piece of. communication can go a long way. As we. get clear on ourselves, of course, when. we feel safe and secure in our in our. particular relationships, we can gift. that knowledge because that might be the.

difference between our partner then. This is I think what happens within. relationships when we kind of conflict. cycles. We have one person, right, regressing back in time, becoming. reactive, and then typically something. in their reactivity sets off the. receiving partner who then goes back in. time, and now we almost have two. children kind of like sparring, not able. to though enter their wise adult or more. grounded, if you will, mind. So, for a. lot of people, that awareness is is.

incredibly helpful, right? For a partner. in a moment to say, "Okay, this isn't. really about the dishes, even though I'm. feeling really frustrated that I'm. getting yelled at that the dishes aren't. done right now. I maybe can. compassionately breathe through." For. the person who's uncovering, there's important information in these. moments. Again, it's not to throw away. the emotion or to to shame ourselves for. having it. Those emotions carry important. information, right? So, if at the bottom. of this, for a lot of us, there is an. unmet need. Maybe it's not Maybe the.

support I need in that moment isn't. about the dishes, but maybe there is. support I'm needing in a different area. or a different type of support that I. could benefit from. So, understanding. what's driving our reactivity, I think. can give us not only the language to. communicate, it can give us clarity on. what's really going on, with which then. can give us flexibility. in other ways that we can attempt to get. that need met. Because this is where I. think it gets even more complicated.

What many of us are seeking, me, right? Even if I came home and all of the. dishes were were done, that wasn't going. to remove what I felt in the kind of. like pit of my heart and I I do it feels. like a visceral as long as I can. remember there was like a pressure. feeling on my chest. That wouldn't. remove that feeling because where that. was coming from was from a lack of. emotional attunement. So even if. everyone that I surround myself with. cleans my dishes from now until the end. of time, if they're not giving me that.

emotional attunement that I need, if I'm. not participating in that emotional. attunement that I need because I'm not. present in my own emotional body and. sharing that, right? You get the. picture, then I will just have a lot of. clean dishes for a very long time and. I'll still have that that pit in that. hole. And I think this is why a lot of. us cycle through reactivity. We maybe do. directly communicate. Maybe even. sometimes our partner does the dishes. and we still don't feel satisfied. We.

still don't feel fulfilled. We still. don't feel that connection or that. support that we're looking for because. what I think a lot of us are actually. looking for are not the actions. We're. looking for that deep level of. attunement. We're looking for that. resonance. We're looking to just feel a. little less alone even if no one is. saying anything to us because they're. just sitting in that emotional presence. or that emotional space with us. Yeah, and I think you're so right going. back to what you said earlier. We have. to. sit in that space with ourselves in.

order to invite someone to sit in it. with us because they can't just find. that space, right? It's almost like you. have a basement level in your psyche. that you have the key and access to in. the elevator and if you don't invite. someone into that because you haven't. visited it before, they're just on level. one trying to figure out where you want. them to go. And I I I'm I'm literally. visualizing Inception right now, the. movie where all of his dreams are locked. in a locked in an elevator but but I but.

I think that that feels so true to me. that. I find that even with my wife we had a. really interesting conversation. recently. So her book came out this. year. And before the book was coming out this. was like maybe a month before the book. came out and I said I really want to. understand how you'd like us to. celebrate this occasion because I don't. think I know. Now we've been together. for 11 years married for 8 years. And I just said I don't think I really. have understood.

not just how you like to celebrate. because that I know we've celebrated. great birthdays and you've had a great. time. But I don't know how you'd like to. celebrate this occasion in your life. It's different. I don't want to take it. like anything and I said my assumption. which would be wrong because it's a. projection of how I'd like to be. celebrated. Mine would be to throw you a. big party and invite all your friends. over and you know have loads of great. food and everything but I was like I. think that's wrong. Like I I I know that. So how would and she said something. really beautiful. She goes. She goes we I felt like we celebrated it. last night. I was like what do you mean?

And she was like well we had our friends. over. I cooked for them from the cookbook. I made meals for them. They all really. enjoyed the food. And I was like yeah but we didn't like. that it was it was just a I was just and. she was like that's how I like to. celebrate it because I got to cook what. I love for people I love and they. appreciated it and that was me. celebrating it. And I was like oh wow I. could have just That would have been. easier than all this. And it was just. this really interesting thing about this. communication like and I said to my wife.

I said after she I said please inform me. of things like that because I would have. no idea. Like if you don't let me in if. you don't invite me into that space of. this is how I like to be celebrated and. she goes you know what I don't think. I've thought about it until you asked me. right now. And so it was a joint. discovery and I think I I think if. people look at their relationship as not. like oh you've kept me out and you. haven't let me in and you don't tell me. it's actually more like we're actually. just figuring this out. Like both of us. on an awareness level of figuring this. out. I think that's that's such a. beautiful story. I'm smiling. I was so.

struck when I first met Lolly who I've. been with her for a little over 10 years. now. And she has such a curiosity when the. things that attracted me very early on. to her about everything. She's just so. interested in life, people, understanding them and this was. completely different than the experience. I had in in my family. I was never. necessarily asked what I thought about. certain things or how I was experiencing. certain things that more or less kind of. we operated with this kind of unified.

front in my family with a lot of. projection. If one member felt or. thought this thing, there was the. assumption that everyone thought or felt. that same way. So now flash forward. decades and I'm with Lolly who's always. curiously asking me my perspective on. things, how I'm experiencing things, what I think and I was so. shocked and at a loss if I'm honestly I. had a hard time answering a lot of her. curiosity in the beginning because. too. I didn't know. I didn't stop to.

think. So I'm imagining myself being. asked how I would have liked to. celebrate something and that would have. been a gift of exploration. for me to have and to consider and I. think what you're sharing I had a moment. with Jenna. So my third partner and I the other day. in one of these very similar moments. that you're describing. And we were. sitting in the car and she was very. quiet and I noticed a pattern of when. we're out typically driving in the car. and that's a lot of the time where her. and I are out doing things together. She's very quiet. And so I'm over here. conditioned from my childhood to assign.

the meaning to quiet which is danger, bad, silent treatment. So you upset. someone cuz this is the experience that. time and time happened again in my. childhood. So I'm sitting in car and. this is I mean we've been together now. for over two years Jenna and I. So for. two two now I'm driving in silent car. rides. I've not said a word, just in my. mind worried. Oh gosh, maybe we have. nothing to talk about. Like isn't this. like I have things on my mind. I would. try to engage conversation. She would. give me one word answer. So finally, just last week, I said I just want to. bring something up. I noticed that.

you're quite quiet when we are out in. the car together, you know? And it. opened up a beautiful, you know, self-awareness opportunity or. couple-awareness where she was like, "Oh, you know what? I I guess I am. I. really like to just look out the window. and look at the scenery and listen to. the music that we have on. It's really. as simple as that." Meanwhile, I spent. the better part of two years secretly. worried, right? So, I think these are. really beautiful examples of how simple. some of the the steps that we can take. are and also how complicated humans make.

it because we do project. Totally. We do. We are subjective. creatures who are projecting. all of the time. And I'm just sitting at. like I have a lot of compassion for. myself, just all of this suffering that, you know, causing ourselves without just. having the direct conversation and. communication. As a creator, my goal is. to try and make content that makes you. happier, healthier, and more healed. And. if you're a creator, an entrepreneur, or. looking to become one, one of the.

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That's k a j a b i.com/jayshetty. kajabi.com/jayshetty. Join the creators and entrepreneurs who. have made over $7 billion. We think we. know what someone is thinking, which is all based on how we think. thinking. We feel affected by that, right? Like we. think others are affected by things the. way we are. And therefore, if someone's. quiet, we believe they're quiet because.

if I was quiet, that means I'm upset. Oh, yeah. And therefore, if they're. quiet, they're upset. And what's really. interesting to me is when we. communicate, which I'm so glad you're. raising that, because it sounds basic, but it's not. Because a lot of people. when we communicate, we just say, "Well, I wish you'd talk more in the car." I I. I wish you'd just know how you want to. celebrate your birthday. I wish you'd. just tell me what you want me to do. And. that's not communication. Those are. almost demand or control mechanisms or. like. kind of uh they they're kind of orders. in one sense, like giving an order to.

someone as opposed to saying, "Hey, you know, because of how I've grown up, I feel when someone goes quiet, it means. there's something wrong. What does it. mean for you? Like what Why is that. important for you?" And I think that's. what communication is. It's a safe space. to explore and be curious. And one of. the things you brought about earlier was. this idea of how the nervous system. seeks familiarity. And what's really interesting is on the. cover you talk about finding peace.

And what's really interesting is that. all of our familiarity is chaos. Mhm. And so, when there is peace in a. relationship, when there is quote-unquote boredom in a. relationship, when there's quote-unquote. stillness in a relationship, a lot of us. who are familiar with chaos go, "Wait a. minute, what's going on?" Because we're. familiar with it. And so I I want to. clarify what familiarity means, because. I think we think familiarity means a. good thing, but we don't realize. familiarity just means what you're used. to. And so talk to me about how should.

we respond to peaceful scenarios when. we're familiar with chaos? I appreciate. this cuz I think this is such a common. experience, myself included, with a lot. of stress, overwhelming stress in the. home. There was a sense of home that I. would receive when in stressful. relationships or when interacting with. with stressful individuals. So, familiarity really simply is is. repetition. It's that which is.

predictable, right? It's kind of. thinking of the neural networks even. I. think that's very common in our in our. language. I can't think of the word I. want to use, you know, dialogue, these days. So, understanding again, familiar is repeated, right? It doesn't. mean there is no good, bad label that we. can put on it. And a lot of people who. have had chaotic early experiences will, exactly like you beautifully said, get. to those moments, even meet a person and. without that rush of chemicals, will.

assume it's not the appropriate. relationship. And one of the biggest. takeaways I hope that people get from. reading this book is kind of two-part. First being the awareness that the way. we're defining and relating to other. individuals, like I said at the. beginning, is more of an imprint or an. artifact of our past than an objective. reality about our present. And then once. we understand that, I think that could. open the door for some of us to become. aware that what we are seeking and. recreating in terms of familiarity,

repetition, is grounded more in stress, chaos, maybe. even trauma, unmet needs, than in a. grounded, secure, peaceful love. Because. that's what we're really looking to. create. And understanding that our. nervous system is playing a foundational. role in that, meaning if I'm not able as. an individual to self-soothe or to find. safe, secure others with which I can. coregulate with, if I'm not able to. create safety in myself,

then chances are I'm not going to be. able to interact with another human and. find that secure grounding. So when I. understand again the role that I'm. playing, the role that my nervous system. is playing, that my nervous system is. playing a role, right? That I can't just. wish my way into a calm, grounded. relationship. I actually have to teach. my body how to have one. And I also understand that that does not. mean that I won't experience conflict or. disagreement or disconnection. Because I.

think sometimes after we unlearn and. create the possibility of even being. safe and secure, I think sometimes. people then have the immediate. expectation that a safe, secure. relationship is one without conflict, without disagreement, right? Without. unmet needs in any given moment, because. things need to be negotiated. Right? And that is included in a safely. grounded relationship in actuality. Because anytime two individuals who are. uniquely different are trying to relate. and navigate life and make decisions for.

a future of shared interest, there are. going to be those moments of. disconnection. So the goal is not to. remove or expect those to not be. present. How can I always find my way. back to safety and security is the great. the best question. How can I repair. after these moments of explosion or. these moments of disconnection, assuming. that they will still be present? And And. can I always continue to expand that. foundation within my relationship of.

safety and security? It doesn't mean. that there won't be upsetting emotions. or moments of dysregulation, but we can. as a system return back to that peace. and that grounded state of calm. Yeah, how do how do you know on that point of. when there is love? I think we always. hear things like you know when you know. and. you know, you just feel it like no. matter what you love someone. Like I I. find that it's so interesting because. like we said, you're not familiar with. peace. So when peace comes up, you. create chaos. We're not familiar with.

love. And so how do you know if love is. there because you may not be familiar. from your childhood with what it feels. like to be loved unconditionally. or wonderfully and in whatever way that. means. How how do we then find it? How. do we then notice it because we don't. necessarily have a clear experience of. it? Yeah, that's a that's a really it's. a beautiful question even to to consider. and a a painful, I think question too to. come to the reality that we might not. have that embodied memory, if you will,

of what it actually feels like to be in. this sense of safety and security and. love. And I think maybe this. it would benefit a discussion of of of. love, maybe really generally, because I. think when people think of love and it's. not to say it's not a feeling, but the. way I define love at least is it is a. feeling in connection with an action. Right? It's a sense of of compassion, of. consideration, of let me even bring it.

back to of awareness of another. individual. and then the ability to be considerate, compassionate. not only in in thought and feeling, right? I can sit here and feel a sense. of love for you, but I believe love. extends beyond that into an action, right? Am I able to then show up in this. embodiment, whether it's just to support. you in being present with you when. you're in an in a in an emotion that's. upsetting or overwhelming, whether it's. to show up in more active or objective. support of you in whatever way that it.

is that you might need it. So, to know. if we're able to or or when in which. we're in that space, again, all of this. goes back. to the body. Because unless we're. present in our body, in our emotions, unless we're able to feel, right, to. attune emotionally, to hold space and to. sense that there is someone else that I. want to consider and to show those, you. know, levels of care, we have to be. grounded in our in our body. To connect.

with our heart, to connect with the. emotion of compassion and care, and then. to act from that embodied place. Because. again, what we're looking for is that. presence. That's a loving action in and. of itself, outside of the other ways, of. course, that we can more objectively. support someone. So, again, I think it's. if we're looking for that roller coaster. of biochemical emotions, if we're. looking for us to be like, you know, kind of hit over the head with this like. love spell, I think again, we're going. to be looking for something that might.

not necessarily exist. Because again, I. think love happens in those grounded. moments where we're able to extend space. and awareness that there is someone else. that I can and want to care about. Because when we're in a survival mode, when we're not calm and grounded and. safe and secure in our own body, we. can't even consider a perspective. outside of our own, let alone show up in. care and compassion of that perspective. or that individual and their best. interest. So again, foundationally in.

the body, I can't make a case enough for. how important it is to be in loving. action. We have to be connected to our. our body, our heart in particular, we. have to be grounded and safe in our. nervous system, and responsive in how we. choose to show up. This point about. being connected to your body is so. valuable and I've recently. discovered I felt deeply for the first. time a disconnect I had with mine and it. came from my childhood. So, I remember. when I was young, I would say.

probably pre-teens and maybe into that. my early teenage years, there was a I. used to experience. uh my heart being fast, losing my. breath, like feeling quite in physically. what would be considered like even like. pain in the heart region, like tight. chestedness, like physically. And I. would remember I would tell my mom and. my mom would take me to the doctors. And. we'd go to the doctors, they'd wire me. up with certain like technology or tools. that would measure my heart rate and. things like that and they'd tell me to.

wear it for the next 24 hours, sometimes. the next 72 hours and I'd wear it to. school or whatever would be under my. shirt, I remember. And then they'd look at the records and. they'd be like, "He's absolutely fine. Like he's fine." And I'd be like, "Um. I'm pretty sure I'm not fine. Like I. definitely feel something. I don't feel. it for 72 hours, but I do have moments. where I feel it." And my mom would be. like, "Whoa, I'm not I'm going to get. you checked again." cuz she'd always. care and my mom's always been a very. loving individual and so she'd introduce. me to more specialists and they'd always. come back and just say, "Oh, maybe he.

needs an inhaler because he has asthma.". And then I remember testing that for a. bit and that wasn't it and they were. like, "Oh no, sorry. We gave him an. inhaler, it wasn't that." And so they. wouldn't know. And I forgot about that. I think I. actually started living so disconnected. from my body because I didn't know what. that meant and so I didn't want to feel. it anymore. And so I started re-living. quite cerebrally and and mentally and I. got fascinated with mastering the mind. and and everything else that I've done. in my life. And it's so interesting that recently I.

was sitting with my wife and we were. talking about this and I was like, "I was experiencing anxiety and I was. experiencing nervousness and I was. experiencing stress. And when I was 10. years old, 26 years ago, no one was. talking about those things and doctors, no one was telling me that. And where I. grew up in England, like I didn't know. anyone who had a therapist until even. recently. So, I didn't have a therapist. that was telling me that. And I feel. like I focused to live outside of my. body for so long because I couldn't make. sense of it and because authorities and.

elders and experts in my life couldn't. validate an experience that I was having. and almost made me feel stupid for. having it when I was a kid. And now I. look back and I go, "No wonder I lost. touch with my body." And so, getting. back in touch with my body again is. looking back at something in childhood. which I lost. And now in my life today, I feel so much more closely connected. with it again where I'm like, "Oh, I can. spot stress. Oh, that is anxiety. Okay, I know what I I know what's going on." I. know breathwork now. I have my. meditation tools. I have my toolkit to.

help me, but I can now experience all of. it in my body. If I'm waking up earlier. or I'm having disrupted sleep, I know. it's because I'm stressed about. something in my daytime. So, does that. make any sense with this disconnected. with your body? shaking my head so hardly, Jay, because. that feeling that I described earlier in. my chest, very young, I remember being a. very little kid sitting there usually. laying awake at night um when a lot of. anxiety would happen for me, I now. looking back believe was anxiety. And I. was emotionally alone, so completely.

overwhelmed. And I lived then with near. constant. anxiety um up through my 20s. I had. panic attack after panic attack. And so, two things that translated to a general. disconnect from my body, so much so that. when I've been an athlete my whole life, I played softball through college and, you know, generally lived in cities, walked, things like that, try to keep. myself active. Anytime I would be doing. a more vigorous movement and my heart. rate would start to elevate and my body.

would start to mimic the panic attack. feelings, I would start to immediately. think I was going to have a panic attack. and need to avoid it. So, over time. gradually I started to even limit not. only generally how much time I spend in. my body, how much time I was moving. because certain movements would mimic. and bring me back. So, anytime I would. feel a discomfort, especially in my. heart, I'd be like, "Oh, avoid that. exercise. That's not for me." And so, over time disconnected from my body,

avoiding anything that could help me. reconnect with my body cuz it felt too. much like anxiety. Living that same. embodied way away from my emotions on my. spaceship like I call it. Yet, my number. one complaint in relationship after. relationship was how emotionally. disconnected I felt. Just like we've. been talking about, pointing at the. finger outside of myself. It must be the. person I'm picking. You're not able to. meet me on my emotional level. On to the. next relationship where, lo and behold, after couple months of honeymoon and. those, you know, chemicals wore off and. then I was back into we're disconnected.

again. Not seeing how all of this. connected back to my childhood. Overwhelmed with emotion, my body and. the emotions which were totally normal. Too much for me to handle. I created. this disconnect that I then lived in on. this spaceship and then I held everyone. responsible for that disconnection that. I was playing a part in creating. And. again, if that isn't for me was an. invitation to rebuild, and I think this. is the other side of of the the coin.

here. All that awareness was beautiful. Now, I'm still tasked with the daily. commitment of reconnecting and living in. my body. And there are a lot of moments. where I still meet, whether it's. physical discomfort, emotional. discomfort because now I have a lot of. tension that I carry, a lot of muscles. and hunched posture that I'm always. trying to stretch and, you know, work. out of my body. And that physical. discomfort makes me want to say, "You. know what? I don't want to do this. today. I'll do this tomorrow." Yet, staying committed to releasing that.

tension. Same thing emotionally. Feeling. really vulnerable and uncomfortable. being emotionally vulnerable and asking. for the support I need, but knowing that. that's what's going to create that level. of attunement that I'm looking for. So, all of this for me remains a daily. commitment because even though logically. I can stay here and on podcast after. podcast how important these things are, yet all of this wiring and this. discomfort and this vulnerability and. all of these beliefs are still present, that it is a conscious intentional. choice every day for me to say, "No, Nicole." Foundationally, your your day.

begins in your body, whether it's just, you know, 20 to 30 minutes of gentle. stretching and silent reflection. I'm in. my own, you know, vessel before I then. go and serve the world. And that isn't. to say that my email isn't distracting. me. I don't have all of these things I. should be doing running through my head. every morning, but I use this as an. illustration again cuz I think some. people think that, "Oh, awareness equals. Oh, I just shift and change and become, right, this new person." And especially.

if we're talking about reconnecting with. our body and developing the ability to. tolerate stress and upsetting emotions, that awareness is going to take a lot of. practice to put into place the tools and. the resources in our body so that we can. begin to contain the discomfort. Yeah, and I think that negativity you just. spoke for me this thought that that. recently I've been practicing more as. well is that that negativity we feel. externally when we don't like someone or. someone's causing us pain, we start. seeing our body in the same way. And so,

I found that often, even though I. consider myself to be quite a positive. uplifting person for myself and for the. people around me, with my body I. actually sometimes have a very different. relationship. And I found myself. critiquing my body. I found myself being. negative about it. If I've got a cold or. if I've developed over Christmas I had. a really bad. pedunculated tonsil. Like it was really. really. um, and and it was huge. You could see it if. I just opened my mouth. And I was just.

constantly like, "God, just go away. Like, I've got so much to deal with. Like, you know, I need to use my voice. for my work." And it I had this negative. cycle. And one of my friends who's who's. a healer and, you know, wonderful. teacher in his own right, he said to me, he was just like, "Jay, like, you know, you need to take the medicine and you. need" And I'd been to at this point I'd. been taking antibiotics and everything. and nothing was It wasn't going away. I. was like, "God, I've been on a course. for 2 weeks. Like, nothing's happening.". And he he he gave me some natural. remedies, but he was saying, "Obviously, you need to do the right remedy and take. the right practice." But he was like, "You need to change your relationship.

with this. Like, your relationship with. your body is your body's your best. friend. It's telling you, 'Hey, I'm not feeling so good right now. There's I'm I'm trying to warn you of. something. I'm trying to let you know. what's going on and you're telling your. body to shut up and go away and get lost. and just sort it out.'" And he was just. like, "Just think about it differently. Like, the idea that your body's actually. trying to help you. If your body is. tired because you haven't slept enough, guess what? Your body's saying, 'Take. some rest.' If your body is panicking. because you've finally done some. exercise or done something challenging,

it's your body saying, 'We're not used. to this. We need to get used to it.' And. so, your body's actually on your side. And even pain is helping you recognize. that there's something to shift, whether. it's your diet, whether it's your And. you talk about this in the book, but. whether it's your diet, whether it's. your supplements, whether it's activity, whether it's meditation, stillness. But. we look at it as a negative signal. rather than a sign of actual help. I'm. really, really relating to this coming. from a a childhood where there was a lot. of not only chronic pain, chronic.

illness. And so, for me, any sort of. physiological symptom, near immediately, my mind goes to the possibility of or. even likelihood of it being a. catastrophic even illness. And so, for. for long, I on moment, you know, at the. second I sensed a shift or a possible. symptom or sickness or something coming. on, I would go into kind of that.

fear-based, "Oh my gosh, what is this a. sign of?" kind of mentality. And at the. same time, for me, physical illness was a point of. connection with my mom. Because my mom, one of the one of the. moments in time, especially with my. older sister who suffered from a lot of. chronic illness, my mom was able to be. present when she needed to physically. care for myself or my siblings. So, now, right, I have this complicated nature,

and I would see a kind of a remnant of. this through my 20s when. I'm 20 years old, right? I have a sinus. infection. I at this point know exactly. what to take. It's the same thing I've. taken for probably the decade before for. my sinus infection, yet I have memories. of being in the drugstore in New York. calling my mom and saying, "Oh, Mom, I'm. sick again, you know, what do I need?". And she would say, "Oh, get Claritin,". which is the thing I always get, you. know. And for me, I'm understanding now. that was a moment where I was looking. for connection. So, how complicated my relationship.

became with my body, right? Where there. was a certain almost desire to be sick. Yes. because now I can have the love and. attention of my mom, right? And then. there's a fear of being sick because. that could mean something catastrophic. Then sometimes, in my mind, when upset. with someone else, I go down to exactly. what I heard in my childhood growing up, where a statement my mom used to make. is, "You'll miss me when I'm gone." So, sometimes, my mind now will fantasize to. hurt someone that has hurt me,

something that happens to me, typically, probably guess by now, where I'm sick. Oh, well, you'll be upset. Won't you be. upset if something were to really happen. to me? How will that be for you? Right? And all of this world now manufactured, created from this early experience, complicating my relationship with my. body, and is still to this day I have a. a lot of unlearning that symptoms like. you beautifully said. are just signals, not signals of a. terminal illness, just a signal. Right,

so really for me not only learning how. to connect with my body, how to unlearn. some of these more kind of catastrophic. beliefs and how to learn how to connect. with people outside of me needing. someone to physically care for me is all. still kind of really a complicated. Yeah, serious. Yeah, how do how do you. start or what are what are the. therapy based, healing based. neurological actions and habits we can. take to rewire that? Because you're so. right, like some people get ill and then. they're.

they're manifesting like I'm going to. get cancer, right? Like it's like a. feeling of like, oh no, this is the. worst. I was speaking to someone else. the other day who said to me they really. believe that their success is one day. just going to crumble because they don't. deserve it and it's something they've. always believed and so how do you. unmanifest? Like how do you almost. rewire that thought process because that. again is a repetitive thought? A belief, just kind of start there. The way I. simply define a belief, it's a repeated. thought. grounded in our lived experience. So.

kind of breaking those two kind of. sections, the way we navigate then. beliefs, right? Because we can't just. affirm our way out of them. We can't. just give ourselves a new belief, it. doesn't necessarily work though we can. acknowledge that we have repeated. certain narratives, certain beliefs in. our mind, right? Those neural networks. have fired outside of our awareness time. and time again and will continue to fire. outside of our awareness time and time. again the same every time a similar. event happens that would elicit that.

sort of interpretation. Meaning what we. do in the moment, we don't anticipate. that, oh, these beliefs aren't working. for me so I'm just going to shut the. volume off and they'll go away, absolutely not. They will occur again. the same time a similar experience. warrants them. What we can do is show up. as the empowered presence, right? The. conscious being. And we can choose how. much attention we're giving. Right? Are. we going to hook our full attention on. and keep repeating the belief once it is. kind of offered in our mind or are we.

going to say, "Oh, right. There's that. old belief again in my mind. It isn't. necessarily accurate or true or I know. it's not true. And now I can choose. somewhere else to put my attention.". That's the first half. The second half, the more powerful half, why we can't. just affirm our way our belief, is. because of what's happening in our body. Right? Like we were talking about. earlier, we've validated this. experience. We feel this. to be true. So, the only way we're going. to shift that embodied experience is if.

we begin to make new embodied choices, right? To show up in action countering. that belief. Even before I believe. otherwise. So, just to use an example, common belief I think that is at the. core of many of our relational habits is. how we're not worthy. Right? So, the. next time when you hear all the litany. of reasons reminding you of why you're. not worthy, right? We notice it, we pull. our attention away. Doesn't mean that. I'm going to feel worthy immediately. Does mean though that I can show up and. begin to show up in actions of.

worthiness. How might someone who is. worthy treat themselves generally or in. this moment? And then consistently over. time make those choices even before you. believe you're worthy. And knowing somewhere down the line if. we weaken that belief network by pulling. our attention away every time it fires. And if we're now strengthening a new. belief network by in action embodying a. new choice that will allow us to feel. differently. And maybe affirming a new. thought. Now we have the beginnings of a.

new network that will over time take. over where that old network existed. Yes. Yes. Yes. I I I. remember kind of discovering this. through the studies I did when I was a. monk. And one of the practices that I. developed, and this was to develop. qualities that were. recommended for people of spiritual. culture to have and to reduce the effect.

of qualities that were not seen as. aspirational. And so. I remember. writing down my top three to five most. repeated thoughts around a particular. thing. And I'd put a line down the middle of a. piece of paper and I'd write down the. script of what my mind currently says in. that trigger, in that response, in that. moment. And then for each point I would. write an alternative script. And the key.

was the alternative script was not about. being positive or not about being the. opposite. I think that's what I've often. seen. So, for example, if we took if we. took the basic premise of I'm not enough. or I'm not worthy as you just said, and. on the other side if you just wrote I'm. the best thing in the world, like that. doesn't work. Like it it needs to be. more comprehensive and thoughtful than. that. It needs to be more valuable than. that. It may be I'm worthy as I am. Uh I. have always been worthy. There's not a.

moment of becoming worthy. Like And And. what I found is the more that I. researched those, the more that I read. books like this and created paragraphs. to support it, and the more I rehearsed. it like an actor, like a script, you. started realizing your script just. changed. And all that you ever did was. memorize an old script and learn a new. one and trade it. That's all it was. anyway. It was never that one was true. and one was false. It was just that you. had a script that you learned from your. caregiver since the beginning and from.

the people that loved you first. And all. of a sudden you have a new script now. And it's so interesting to me that we so. deeply define ourselves by thinking we. are our thoughts. And and how much our. thoughts are seen as non-different from. ourselves, but actually they're they're. scripts. They're just scripts. And which. script you've read the most and. practiced the most and rehearsed the. most is your reality. Yeah, and I think. what we are missing is the foundational. role that our and other people's body.

sensations played at the creation and. repetition, right, of those scripts. And. I've been talking a lot about a good old. Descartes, I think therefore I am. And a. lot of us do have and embody that belief. that all of the power, right, is in the. mind and the mind carries this reality. And that's just so simply not true. All. of the power actually lives in our body, in our instinctual body. And what. participated in creating those those. scripts again was what was happening in.

our body. And all of the other bodies that were. navigating those moments. around us. And then that continues to be. the case. We pay most attention to. what's going on in our mind, not. becoming aware that even in the current. moment what was happening in our mind. was usually activated by the shifts in. our body, by the fact that our nervous. system outside of our awareness is. always assessing and looking for. possible threat based on what was once. threatening to us.

Right, so all of these physiological. shifts that you and I keep focusing on. and talking about are initiating for a. lot of us the thoughts that we then. become present to. in our minds. So, until we understand. again the foundational role that the. body continues even to play in shaping. our thoughts, ultimately in shaping our. beliefs, and then creating the. opportunity to change both of those. categories of thinking and believing, right, we're not going to be able to to. create the shifts ultimately that we. want. And when we do, that's when I.

think we can create incredible. transformation. One of the things I love. doing on the show is really clearly. defining terms that I think are starting. to become very mainstream or viral on. TikTok or, you know, these terms that I. think often all to get thrown around. And so, I wanted you to please define. for us, what is a trauma bond? Because I. feel like that's a term that is gaining. popularity and gaining traction, but. often we're not really sure of what it. means. What is a trauma bond? I think a. trauma bond is a relationship in which.

dysfunctional habits exist. And I'm. giving a very intentionally giving a. very expanded definition, cuz I know. clinically in the field for a very long. time, uh trauma bond, I forget who it is. that coined the term years ago now, Carnes, I'm forgetting his exact name, but around a relationship in which there. was abuse, usually active physical or. sexual abuse, and um a kind of felt. connection or commitment within that. relationship. And I actually think this. kind of mirrors my own expansion of.

definition such as trauma include it to. I think categorize the many other. versions of of trauma bond patterning of. breaking cycles as I I share in the. subtitle that exist within. relationships. So again, really simply, it's the relational pattern that a lot. of us learned that was adaptive in early. childhood in those earliest. relationships that we then rely on. because it's predictable, it includes. our identity, it includes the. predictable identities of all of those. that were relating to, and we rely on.

that kind of dynamic, the felt security. in that dynamic. Let me say it that way, as our home base. So, a trauma bond I. think applies to a lot of us. I think. there's a lot of dysfunctional habits. that many of us are carrying in, particularly around emotions and how we. relate to and navigate emotions in. relationships. that many of us are still experiencing. and to answer a question that maybe.

listeners are having cuz sometimes I do. then get asked well can you change a. trauma bond is a trauma bond doomed and. you know I will be the first to say that. when I began my relationship with Lolly. it was absolutely had a lot of trauma. bond patterning it's what attracted us. to each other on some level and through. dedicated action on both of our parts um. I absolutely believe and I've seen. obviously many other instances where. trauma bond just like attachment. patterns I think this is another very. common language in my opinion at least.

they are not be all end all categories. that are you know kind of for a lifetime. or a terminal sentence if you will so. trauma bond again dysfunctional habits. that exist in our relationships. typically habits that were once adaptive. or protective at one time they get. repeated that can absolutely be changed. That's so interesting though what you. said that. they were once protective. and what's really interesting that you. said was that now they become.

in the relationship oh that you're even. attracted to each other because of those. like it can even be the foundation of. why you get together with someone. which is even harder to lose because. that was what brought together so you. almost feel like there's so much value. to it so how do you break that cycle. then when it's almost like I'm attracted. to you because of this trauma bond and. we're starting to have that dependence. on each other. how does one then break that apart when. it feels like that's the reason you came.

together? This is kind of I think going. down another rabbit hole in a sense of. attraction. because I think attraction is another. word you know like we're talking about. earlier in terms of familiarity and. habitual right a lot of times that which. we think we're attracted to. is really that which is familiar to us. like it's kind of like attraction based. on the familiarity principle, if you. will. So, I think when we're considering. that aspect, what yes does feel familiar. and therefore attracts, quote unquote, us to many of the partners that we.

choose are. the habits that we are used to, right? Not necessarily what we want to. consciously choose to create. So, when. we, again, become aware of what we're. carrying in, what those early dynamics. are, then I think we could get a bit. clearer in terms of whether or not we're. attracted to familiarity. or whether or not this is someone that. we want to pursue a future with. And. regardless, again, because like I said, we can become attracted to familiar.

and then create a future that's not. familiar at all for the two of us, you. know, walking in a direction that we are. intentionally choosing. What empowers. that shift is intentionality, in my. opinion, conscious awareness. Each. separately or together as partners. showing up and saying, I'm. understanding, right, these dynamics. about myself. These are the changes that. I want to make, right? This is how I see. us going together in the future. So, I. think when we have the awareness and.

then have the communication, we can create the opportunity, right, to not only get clearer in terms. of even if we were attracted to. something that was familiar, doesn't. mean that it's not workable for us to. keep both of our best interests in mind. and create a future that works for both. of us. Mhm. What is What is real Another. Another term or another practice that I. think has also gained, again, mass. attention more recently is inner child. work. And I feel like. it's it's really interesting because we.

are starting to gain this language. around how we have an inner child at all. times and a lot of our inner child's. needs are unmet. You talk about. authentic needs in the book and now we. spend our adult life. in some way trying to fulfill those. unmet inner child needs, but often in. our adult life we it can take us in so. many different directions and keep us. lost. What are some of the mistakes we. make in trying to meet an inner child's. needs and what are some of the healthier.

ways we could choose to meet our inner. child's needs? And even if they're. needed. Yeah. Understanding I think even just. this concept of inner child I think this. is another one of them that we could. upon hearing it right an inner child, well I'm an adult that's right this. doesn't apply to me and I think what it. what kind of an inner child how we can. define that is the subconscious space of. our mind as I've been describing. throughout right that houses a lot of. this patterned way of being that was. created at that time, right? That was.

the adaptation in terms of how we had to. shift and change and what needs were. getting met or not getting met and what. emotions that we had to or aspects of. our self-expression like I described. earlier that weren't appropriate or that. we were shamed right for having so that. ultimately all of this now is beneath. the surface. It's still for a lot of us. so driving a lot of our reactivity. Even. those moments that I've been sharing. with the dishes, right? I'm becoming. emotional, right? That was a moment. where my inner child was very alive,

right? I was feeling the feelings back. in time of that unmet need of not having. that attunement. So when we I think the. first shift is understanding that that. exists inside of us that we are kind of. compelled and wired and we do have needs. and beginning then to explore how how we. are showing up in service of our needs. Is there space in our general day? Is. there space in our relational day to. make sure that I'm caring for my. physical self? Is there room and space.

for my emotions and my giving and. receiving the support that I'm that. relationships allow for and do I feel. safe to be who I am, right? And chances. are if you're not kind of overwhelmingly. saying, "Yeah, I'm feeling pretty calm, grounded. I can take care of my needs. I. can share my emotions. We can, you know, negotiate for future. I'm able to be. myself." Then a lot of what probably is. happening are the habits of of our inner. child. So, becoming then clear how it is.

and creating space to break those. patterns first, right? Kind of shifting. out of those habitual ways of being and. creating an opportunity to show up. newly. And for a lot of us, that means. even bringing it full circle, learning a. new relationship with our body. Really. simplifying it, looking into our sleep. habits, looking into our nutritional. habits, looking at how we navigate. stress and the impact that it has on us. And then creating new habits that can. better care for our nervous system, so. that ultimately we can be more attuned.

to our emotions and more able to share. those with somebody else. Yeah, one of. the things you talk about in the book, which I really resonated with, was the. seven conditioned selves: caretaker, overachiever, underachiever, rescuer, protector, life of the party, yes. person, and hero worshiper. And I was thinking about this a lot. because I found that a lot of people. naturally the way we see it, they're. still playing that role. That role that. allowed them to feel safe, protected, in.

control when they were younger. They're. still demonstrating that role, and often. that role today can actually lead them. to becoming extremely successful, extremely accomplished, extremely. adored, famous, rich, what everything. else. Like it can it can do so much. But. then they almost get exhausted of. playing that role, or you just recognize. it's a role and it was a role that you. took on and but it was never you. It. wasn't the you you wanted to be. It was. the you you had to be. How do you reconcile that? How does. someone reconcile.

whether they're externally. quote-unquote successful or not. Just. they've recognized now they're like, "I've been playing this role. Maybe I. was the peacekeeper. Maybe I was the. comedian. Maybe I was the mediator since. I was young. But actually I don't like that role. I. don't want to be that role. But now not. only has that role been protective of me. for so long, how do I give it up? Who. would I be without it? And and can I. construct another self?" Yeah. I mean, you're.

beautifully giving language to not only. the questions, though to the process of I think. reconciliation. So, once we become aware. that there is a role we're playing, which for a lot of us is very shame. relieving because I know for me, very. much identifying with the overachiever, very much being validated by society. that celebrated many of my achievements, I carried a ton of shame as I started to. feel really disconnected and unfulfilled.

with this life that was supposedly. created to make me feel validated and. happy and fulfilled. And so, when I. didn't immediately feel that way, I. started to worry and wonder what was. what was wrong with me. Right? So, without the language to have kind of. zoomed back and say, "Oh, well, it's. understandable you don't feel. disconnected to your life, Nicole, because you're not authentically living. it, right? You achieved all of these. things in service of seeking your mom's. attention, seeking your mom's love, seeking the sense of worthiness in.

action. And in reality, it doesn't. represent who you authentically are. because in many moments you're not even. sharing who you authentically are with. anyone. So, that awareness piece I think. for a lot of us can be hugely shame. relieving though it doesn't shift us. into maybe the embodied self or the. self-expression or authentic expression. that we want and need to create, right? We have to break the habit of being this. person, of playing this role, of wearing.

this mask, and create a new habit of. showing up in our authenticity, which. for a lot of us is very destabilizing. We've wrapped these identities, some of. us even prided ourselves, some of us. like myself created a whole life around. this identity that now we're. questioning. Right, we could feel. shameful because we're older now. We. should know who we are and what we want. So, that could feel, you know, overwhelming. We might need to shed, right, some of the actual identity in.

service, like how we are showing up. Now. we are making like strategically new. choices, so we're shedding identity. For. a lot of us it means mourning and. grieving the circumstances that created. the need for me to play that role, right, the unmet needs, the aspects of. myself that I was taught was too. unworthy to be expressed. So, for a lot. of us it's getting curious, it's. questioning, it's creating the space to. grieve and be with our pain, and the.

resilience to begin to make new choices. because again all of that is still. governed by our body. Because now we're. going to show up against the expectation. of a lot of people. We're going to be. challenging a lot of people other. people's perception of us. We're going. to be challenging the dynamic like we. talked about earlier that was repeated. and validated over time, and now we're. showing up not playing this role that. we've already played. And so, the stress. that we're going to create in all of the. systems outside of us. is going to create the scenario where we.

feel now overwhelmed, and before we know. it we're right back in. those old habits. Mhm. So, above where. everyone the book is called How to Be. the Love You Seek, Break Cycles, Find. Peace, and Heal Your Relationships. Dr. Nicole LePera, the holistic psychologist. on Instagram. If you don't follow. already, Dr. Nicole Nicole, thank Thank. so much uh for giving us a master class. on on this. And like I said, we've. dived into. 1% of what's inside the book. There is. so much more inside this book. I highly.

recommend it. Uh and I was very grateful. that you included my testimonial on the. back, which uh I very deeply in heart. felt very deeply in my heart to share. with you, but I'm so grateful for. everything you've shared today, all the. insights. So, thank you for going there. with me on on so many different. pathways. I wanted to make sure, Dr. Nicole, is there anything that I didn't. ask you that you'd love to share or. anything that's on your heart right now. that you feel compelled to share with. the community? Well, I appreciate you. asking. I appreciate as always your. support. Um I I did appreciate the. opportunity to kind of go into a lot of.

aspects of of my own journey in this. conversation. So, I I'm hoping it was of. service, of course, to everyone out. there listening. And I thank you all for. tuning in. Absolutely. Thank you, Dr. Nicole. If you loved this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr. Gabor. Maté on understanding your trauma and. how to heal emotional wounds to start. moving on from the past. Everything in. nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So, a tree doesn't grow where it's hard. and thick, does it? It grows where it's. soft and green and vulnerable.