Relationship Coach Matthew Hussey: "There is no such thing as right person, wrong time!"

We think that we're going to be happy by. getting a person, but you'll never be. happy by getting a person that doesn't. meet your needs. Doesn't matter how. impressive you think they are. That's. the danger, right? That's the trap. people fall into. I've fallen into it. One of the world's leading dating and. relationship coach. He has helped. millions of people find love, Matthew. Hussey. We write people off at lightning. speed. They may have a wisdom that you. never picked up on. And the reason so. many people never reach the point of. real relationship is because.

Hey everyone, I've got some huge news to. share with you. In the last 90 days, 79.4%. of our audience came from viewers and. listeners that are not subscribed to. this channel. There's research that. shows that if you want to create a. habit, make it easy to access. By. hitting the subscribe button, you're. creating a habit of learning how to be. happier, healthier, and more healed. This would also mean the absolute world. to me and help us make better, bigger,

brighter content for you and the world. Subscribe right now. The number one. health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only, Jay. Shetty. Everyone that we know, since we're. young, wants to fall in love. And we've all heard so much advice on. love that has somehow become our version. of what love is. Or we've all seen so. many love stories, whether it was a bad.

love story with our parents, whether it. was a good love story with our uncles. and aunts, whether it was. our older brother or older sister, whoever it was. Where did your earliest ideas of love. come from? And which ones do you still. agree with, and which ones do you. disagree with? I suppose on some level. some of them must have come from my. upbringing. You know, my my. talking about, you know, the the kind of. giddiness that she felt for my dad when.

they first met and, you know, the attraction, um, I'm sure so much of it was. was songs and movies. I suppose. the thing. that I think about now is. like what I value. today is. different, I think, than what I might.

have valued at. 21. I still, you know, I very much value attraction. and chemistry because I think it's going. to be a long road if you're in a. relationship that doesn't have those. things. But, the. the things that became kind of. non-negotiables for me. changed. Like, finding someone who brings me. peace. and being in a relationship that felt. peaceful.

That was something that made its. entrance later in my life. and I paid the price for it not making. its entrance sooner. You know, I. was in multiple relationships that. really robbed me of my peace. And so, I. think that probably early on I was not I. wasn't seeking peace. I was seeking. just the ride, you know, the experience. of feeling these incredible feelings for. somebody and. and also perhaps being.

heroic to that person. I think that was. probably an early idea. that, you know, I was the I I there had. to be something heroic about the way. that I. showed up or presented myself. that. And I think that for a long time. that. that prevented me from ever really being. seen. You know, I If you'd have asked me at. 25, are you vulnerable? I would have been like, yeah. I wouldn't.

have said no. I wasn't self-aware about it, but like. there was a lot that I never really. brought forward about myself. I think. that we. are very good at like, you know, we all tell the hero's journey. of our life and we love that, right? Cuz. it's a kind of here's where I was and. here's where I am now, you know, whenever you hear like a rags-to-riches. story, it's back then I was in a bad spot, now. I'm in an amazing spot. And I remember I. used to tell stories like that in my.

life. I could be dating and telling. stories like that of where I'd come from. and where I'm now and. there was nothing really vulnerable. about those stories. They were still the. story of how like how I'm awesome. Cuz it's a hero's journey, you know, but. it's a lot harder to be like, here's. what I'm struggling with right now or. that thing that you just did just made. me really jealous and insecure or you. know, I'm feeling emasculated. right now. Like tho- those things, my.

God, like that to bring that stuff. forward for me was was I didn't realize. how hard it was and how terrified I must. have been of doing that and how deeply. unworthy I felt. to be able to really show someone who I. was. and still feel like I'd be loved. afterwards. Right, you know, I'd get. like a. you know, a vulnerability hangover at. the end of And and by the way, sometimes. sometimes it did backfire. Remember,

you know, when I was trying on the whole. vulnerability thing, I remember saying. to someone. about a moment in an evening that had. made me insecure. I remember talking. about Like I I didn't want to, but I. would could tell I was being. passive-aggressive and cold. and the walls had gone up. And so I was like, I'm not being That's the hard place to. be, right? When you know you're not. being. your normal, fun, loving, happy self, but you're also not being honest about.

what you're feeling. So, you're just in. this weird no man's land of like being. unpleasant to be around. And I realized like this I can't hide. how I'm feeling right now. And. I instead of like gaslighting this. person that I'm fine and I'm not, let me. just share something that made me. insecure. And it really backfired. Like, this. person said to me, I find that This is. the literal words that were said to me.

was, I find that really unattractive. And it crushed me because I. I thought I was like in my head I was. like, I'm never doing that again. I remember living with my friend at the. time and I walked to his room and I was. like, I can't believe what just happened. Like, I'm such an And I didn't say. I didn't say, "Wow, that was really. lacking in compassion from her side.". That was like the depths of my own like. lack of compassion, self-compassion was. that instead of saying, "Wow, that was a.

really. um. that was a kind of a a mean and response. lacking compassion." Instead, I went I. I'm such an idiot. I'm I can't believe I said that out. loud. Like, why did I reveal that weakness? And. it it took me a little while to recover. from that because it kind of. it reinforced That's the That was the. dangerous part is it reinforced this. idea that I needed to be heroic at all. times. And not to have those weaknesses and and.

that it was those parts of me were. contemptible if people knew about them. That's So, that was a That was a big. That was a big thing for me, I think, thinking I had to be a hero all the time. and not realizing that a real. relationship is so much more interesting. than that. Wow, man. So powerful. So many things to. unpack. So many things to unpack. One of. the things I want to start with is what. is the difference. between a peaceful relationship and a. boring relationship? Oh. Because I think.

that. Great question. That's a great question. Because I think a lot of people think of. peaceful. as boring when we're not emotionally. mature. So I can relate to what you're. saying where you actually want a. relationship that's kind of like chaotic. and up and down and passionate and then. we love each other, we hate each other, you know, there's that kind of energy, there's something and we kind of do that. in a lot of our lives and by the way, we. do that even in marriage and. relationships where we can often invent.

drama because it's too peaceful. And. I've had friends who've reached out to. me and said, "Jay, I keep creating drama. in my life because that's what I'm used. to and I don't know what to do with this. guy or this girl because they're. actually peaceful." So people are scared. that peaceful means boring, but you've. just said you like a peaceful. relationship. I know you're not a boring. guy. So what's the difference? I you. know, so when you was just saying that, I thought to myself. I there are days where I'm on time for. something. and I will.

kind of go and do one more thing before. the meeting. that makes me late. So that I have to like make a game of. getting in the car and like finding a. way to like how can I still like uh the. GPS says I'm going to be there in like 2. minutes before, but maybe I might like. shaving off a minute. Like. I was on time. Yeah. Why did I do the. one more? Nothing was going to. nothing was going to go wrong if I.

didn't do that one more thing. Yeah. Why. did I do one more thing that made me. late? And I had I had. I had to realize at a certain point that. that was like my nervous system. I I. you know, I grew up around like my dad. was always late for everything. I learned that from him. I used to hate. it, by the way. But like I had I had. also then adopted it. I I'm not that way. anymore in my life, but like it I.

realized like I have an addiction to. this feeling. This like mini drama of am. I going to get there on time? Which creates this little mini drama in. my day for like 10 minutes. It's like an. adrenaline rush. I'm like you know, and. it's a horrible feeling, really. It. doesn't feel good. It feels like. stressful and anxiety-inducing. And now. I'm going to come across as rude and. disrespectful of someone's time. And I'm. like stressed and but it's like a my. body is used to that. I'm not used to. like getting somewhere on time and like.

have 10 minutes to just chill. And like. it's. that's a new feeling. That can feel. boring. Mhm. So, in terms of a relation I think. we do it everywhere in our lives. In. terms of a relationship. I knew when I met with my wife Audrey. that I had found peace that wasn't by. any means boring. Because I felt at home. I didn't you know, I didn't just feel. safe. We can feel safe and very bored,

right? We can feel like I'm with someone. who is very non-threatening. I feel like. I you know, this person's not going to. leave me. I feel like I'm very safe in. this situation, but. I don't really like this doesn't feel. like my person. I just feel safe. And when you haven't. felt safe for a long time, sometimes. that's a very lovely feeling on its own. Just to feel like I'm no longer in a. abusive relationship or I'm no longer in. a relationship with someone that makes. me second-guess myself all the time or.

feels like they're going to leave me at. any moment but eventually. we will get bored in a situation where. the only thing that's presenting as a. positive thing is the safety we feel. but. but in in this relationship I felt at. home. and I felt like. I I felt more seen than I'd ever felt. before you know I I really. was astonished to the the extent to. which this person got me. and.

that we seem to get each other and you. know the first night we met we spoke for. eight hours straight. literally like. everyone else was like partying and. doing this and we were just we talked. for eight hours the first night we met. there was an attraction there that made. us talk to each other it's not like we. started talking to each other on the in. the first second because we knew we were. such great conversationalists like we. started talking because there was a. there was a an attraction but.

but then it felt. easy felt like home somehow it took me a. minute to realize that by the way I'm. not this wasn't a love at first sight. story of like and then everything was. smooth sailing but it. it did it took me a while to realize. oh this is like this is this feels like. home I'm more of myself around this. person. and I think that's a beautiful thing to. find is someone who makes you more of. yourself. and of course I think it you know you.

can't. if someone says to me I've got zero. sexual attraction to this person there's. a problem. that's a genuine problem. you have to have some form of attraction. to the person you're with now by the way. does it need to be the greatest. attraction you've ever felt for anyone. in your life. that trips a lot of people up because I. I always say don't comparison shop for. chemistry it's one of the things I talk. about in the book because I think we. we're always comparing whatever is in.

front of us with the peak of our. chemistry that we've had with someone. that we can't seem to get over. Mhm. But you only have to take a look at What. are the situations that we find hard to. get over? Like what What was that peak of. chemistry and attraction? And it's often. in situations that were entirely. unsustainable. Mhm. It's you know, you. go. you have a holiday romance with someone. and you God, like if I. I'd love to feel that animal attraction. for someone who was good for me and who. I had a long-term relationship with. And.

it's like, well, how long did you know. that person? 2 weeks? They didn't have to do very much. Like. it's easy to create the conditions for. chemistry in that kind of a situation. The same is true of people who have a um. three-month fling. with someone where there's like it it. becomes more interesting because it's. flaming really hot and then it. disappears. You know, I had a woman who. I coached. who said. you know, this person was the one, we. had this amazing three-month thing and I.

said, "What happened?" And she was like, "Well, he went traveling and he said he. didn't want to continue the. relationship.". And for me, that's like. literal fireworks. Mhm. You know, they fireworks, we look. at them and they're really exciting. And we get we're like, "Ah, isn't this. magical?" And you look at those. fireworks. But if those fireworks. carried on for 3 hours, you'd be like, "This is I don't want to. go home now." Or you would be bored. Yes. Right? For fireworks to be. exciting, they have to end. they have to.

end. So, we have to be very careful about. comparing the like slow burn energy. of a real relationship with like that. fast-twitch muscle of. a short-term encounter or an affair that. is naturally exciting because it's an. affair. It's like, you know, mysterious. Yeah, so I I I don't think you you. should absolutely have chemistry, but um. we have to be really careful with.

comparing chemistry with previous. chemistry because that chemistry may not. have lasted either if you don't actually. got what you wanted. Yeah, and it's it. makes so much sense. The idea you just. the analogy you painted of. the fireworks is a brilliant one because. a real relationship is one that you. don't want to end. And. the chemistry-based relationship is one. that has to end, right? It has to come. to an end. And for it to feel meaningful and a real.

relationship, you never want to end and. that's why it feels meaningful. And. there that's where we're kind of stuck. in between. And the thing I hear the. most and I asked my audience and my team. a lot of questions before this interview. because I know. a lot of my audience is dating, trying. to figure it out. And one of the biggest. things, which we touched on here, but I. want to ask you about is that people. find it overwhelming with the number of. options they have today. And I've spoken. to friends who are like, "Well, this. guy's great, but maybe there's someone.

greater, right?" And we're constantly. living in this they're good, but maybe. they're 50% and maybe there's a 51, and. then maybe there's a 79, and maybe. there's a 99 cuz I can see someone else. over there has a 99. And so we keep. second-guessing even the person in front. of us even if they are fulfilling our. needs because of the overwhelming. number of options. So how when you said. you felt at home and you know, I think. that's what people want to feel. They. want to feel at home. They want to feel. more than safe.

But how do we know or what have been the. best signs and indicators that people. can look out for that they're actually. making things harder for themselves by. wishing, hoping, wanting someone else? Or is that a sign that you're not with. the right person that you feel that. there is someone who has more. It's such. a tough question cuz I think it's. sometimes. we're wanting something else because. there's. you know, the the person that's in front. of us isn't compelling enough. There.

really is something lacking in that. relationship. Mhm. But I do think we have to ask ourselves. what. what are the things I really must have. for an amazing relationship. Like I for. me when I when I was. going to ask Audrey to marry me, I. literally called up a friend and told. him. and he was like, you know, why are you. doing that? I'm just curious. Like what. He was It was almost like his way of. testing whether I was ready or not, you. know, whether I was just in some crazy. like infatuation or.

and I said, you know, I'm I'm ready to. build something in my life. I feel like. for me my my dating life was just like. hitting reset all the time. And and it was honestly at a certain. point making me anxious. Like. dating and being with different people. and. it just didn't you know, there was a. time in my life where that was really. exciting and then it started to just go. the other way. And I and I had to listen to that and.

go, this isn't. this isn't going to work. Like I this. isn't where it's at. This isn't making. me happy. This isn't bringing me peace. Um the way that I was dating was it had. almost like an addictive quality to it. that was really unhealthy. And I thought, this isn't going to be a. good look Mhm. 10 years from now. It's. not going to make me feel good. It's not. going to bring me more peace. Which is a different by the way, that. doesn't mean that you know how to give. something up when you have those.

realizations. You might realize eating. healthier would be better for you, but. it doesn't mean that you've trained. yourself. Mhm. to be able to do that. Mhm. Um. but I got to a point where I said, "I. want to build something now.". And. in with Audrey, I thought I I. in my head, I was like, "I'll never find. a better builder." And I said that to. him, like, "I'll never find a better. builder. This is. this is the builder for me. Like, we're. going to be able to do such amazing.

things together and the life we'll have. and the you know, the her level of. empathy and compassion and. you know, the person that I am with this. person, it. you know, the way she makes me feel, like, that's. that's truly special. And. I'm not a. you know, there's the one out there kind. of a person. I've never been that way. If you look Anyone looks back through my. videos and you know this cuz we've. spoken about it. Back when I was single,

you know, I've never been a. person who believes in the idea of the. one. So, I think that it's finding someone. that we've you know, we look at what's really important to. us. Not what's important on an egoic level. cuz I think a lot of the things that. make us question whether. this person is right for us are. ego-based. I don't think they're. based on how we feel around this person. We worry, is this the kind of person my. friends think that I should be with? Do.

they look the part? Are they my my normal type? Do they make the right amount of money? Yeah, like is this does has this person. come in the package that I had always. told myself they would come in? And those things can be really, really. limiting and they can have us like. constantly trying to optimize for some. version of something that we think we're. supposed to be with, which is a very dangerous way to go. about finding love. You You can't.

optimize. for human beings. You You can optimize. for a lot in life, but you're dealing. with people. And by the way, even if you. let go of this person, you're going to. find someone else who's also imperfect, and they might Okay, this person is, you. know, scores a seven in this area, and. they score a nine, but guess what? They. score a three in this other area that. you didn't even know. was great in this relationship because. you took for granted how amazing that. person was in that way. Like it it.

It's it's very dangerous to optimize in. that way in our love life. And. I I've come to really believe in life. that if you find a connection that has. all the right raw materials. and you both have the same level of. commitment then you can build something. extraordinary together. And actually, the extraordinary is the thing you. sculpt together. It's no different from. a career. You know, neither you nor I started by doing our.

dream version of this. It's evolved and evolved and evolved and. evolved, and every year you sculpt it a. little closer to your ideal way of doing. it all. And along the way, you do a lot. of things that you don't necessarily. you're like, "Oh my god, I couldn't do. this for a lifetime." And this part I. thought I would enjoy, and I didn't. enjoy it nearly as much as I thought I. would. I'm going to stop doing that. And. you. you know, you you sculpt it. Like dream. careers are sculpted. They're not found.

And I think that that's true of. relationships as well. Like I'm more. grateful for my relationship with Audrey. the more time goes on. Yes. Because we. keep sculpting it into something that's. better and better. What that requires. which is really hard for a lot of us, myself included for many years and this. was one of the things that I think. really hurt me was I got myself into an. incredibly indecisive state. where I was constantly second-guessing. myself.

and I. you know. when we talk when we when we think of. what's our like what are we worried. about in our love life for so many of us. is that we're going to settle. Yes. I'm going to settle for the wrong. person. Well, I think we can actually. start to. reclaim the language of settling Mhm. and. make it into a very positive thing that. what if it wasn't settling for what if. you decided to settle on? Mhm. Because. when you settle on someone there's a.

power to that. It's like you resolve to. say I'm going to settle on this. It's. like people crossing a country when a. country is you know it's like people. crossing America and deciding when to. stop. Yeah. You right where at what point did the. early settlers say this this is good. enough. I don't need to keep going like. I've found an amazing place. Mhm. And when you find that place you go. I could live here. Then you settle on it. and it's only by settling on it that you.

can make it great. It's only by putting. your attention on it like a laser that. you can see what it becomes and. I don't think that I ever really settled. on. anything in my love life in a way that. gave it a chance to see what it could. really become. And in this situation I. really gave myself that chance by saying. I'm going to. I'm going to go all in on this. Yeah. But she was smart because she also. saw that Audrey is ridiculously.

perceptive and in tune with people and. she saw in me early on like oh this is a. pattern for him and that doubt and that. what do I want you know is this right. and that she saw that early on and one. of the things. that she did was. she. she called me out firstly and she was. like look if. if you're. I'm willing to like really see what this.

could be, and. you don't seem to be Wow. in that place. where you're like actually. going all in and seeing what it could. be." Mhm. She said, "So, I don't want to continue. if you're not going all in because I I'm. not like Mhm. I'm not here for someone. half of someone's energy.". Mhm. And she And the way she phrased it was. amazing because she said to me, "Look, that doesn't mean like 6 months from now.

we could break up. Yeah. You might decide this is wrong for you. I might decide it's wrong for me. Mhm. And no one's the villain if that. happens. But, if you're not willing to go all in. right now to at least see what it could. be Mhm. and give it your real effort, then. then this has to end here for me. And what was For me, what was amazing. about that is that it lowered the stakes. for me, especially when she said because.

I I felt like. you know, in the past I had hurt Well, I. didn't feel like I had hurt people. And. I had been the villain. And I was like, "I can't do this. anymore." cuz I also suffer from. ridiculous guilt. Mhm. So, I was like, "I can't do this again. I can't I was. like avoidant because I was like, "I. don't want to get close enough to anyone. to hurt someone. If I hurt someone, I'm. going to feel sick and that's going to. haunt me and then you know, I'm just. making myself miserable and them and. So, I had all this like stuff and when.

she was like, "You're not If 6 months from now you. decide this isn't for you, that's okay. You're allowed to do that." That lowered. the stakes for me. But, by also demanding as a standard and. that's what so much of this book is. about, how to raise your standards and. what that looks like in practice cuz I. think the reason so many people never. reach the point of real relationship is. because they don't have. standards for what they expect and how. to communicate and know how to. communicate those standards. But because. she had a standard that she lowered the.

stakes, but she also had a high standard. that said, "This is the price of entry. for continuing.". That like allowed me to fully. invest. And when I fully invested, that thing started to actually realize. its potential and to we got to see what. it actually was when I was showing up. fully and she was showing up fully. Um so I I sympathize with anyone who is. struggling with. those decisions in their love life. I.

don't judge anyone for it because I. struggled in my love life with I wrote a. whole chapter of the book called never. satisfied cuz I related to that idea. that, you know, you find someone who you. chase who feels exciting to you, but. they break your heart or you know, or. you go for someone who feels safe and. you're bored, you're doubting yourself, you're doubting whether this is the. right person, and you just sort of, you. know, cycle between those two different. extremes. And it became the.

not just a goal for me to help other. people, it became a goal for myself to. go, "I need to figure out how to be happy. here because otherwise I'm going to. constantly oscillate between feeling. suffering because I'm chasing someone. who doesn't want me. or. being with someone where I feel like I'm. not I'm not fully there and that's not. fair to them and it's not fair to. myself." Like I need to figure out a way. to be happy here. So so much of this. book is.

about finding that peace and that. happiness that um I feel really, really. lucky to have been able to find in my. own life because it's. it. you know, I wrote this book. single, heartbroken, then dating, then. you know, falling in love, and then I. the last edit I did, you know, for 2. days on my honeymoon. Like, that was a. crazy arc for me. So, it wasn't. something that was created by a married. person who was just like, "Here's all. the.

answers." I was like, some of these. chapters I wrote in the worst possible. pain of of my life. You know, you talked. about standards then, and obviously. that's such a big part of what you felt. with Audrey in that moment. I think what scares us about setting. standards is that we think it's going to. scare someone away. So, Audrey saying that to you requires. so much self-. worth. in her saying, Mhm. "I may lose this guy if I say this, but I know that's where I'm at.".

You being vulnerable with that person. many years ago saying, "I'm going to. open up about my life," and them saying, "That's not very attractive. I don't. find that attractive." That was you. again trying to demonstrate and be. vulnerable, but because you were with someone who. wasn't emotionally compassionate enough. to receive that, and because you didn't. have enough self-worth, you made it a. weakness in yourself. It sounds like. when Audrey said that to you, if you. would have said, "Well, I'm not in," she.

would have been like, "Okay, cool. We're. not in then. It's not happening." It. doesn't sound like she would have been. like, "Oh my god, he doesn't like me. I'm not good enough," because she had a. certain standard. And that's what. standards were. Whereas, when you were. trying to be vulnerable, it was like. trying to be vulnerable, but it wasn't a. standard yet. Well, I would No, it wasn't a standard. Tactics are different from standards. That's what I was trying. Not that when I was being vulnerable. that was a tactic, but. but but like, we do constantly employ. faux standards.

that aren't really standards. They're. just a tactic. So, he's like, "I'm not. going to text this person back. so that I generate interest.". And then if it doesn't generate. interest, 3 days later we text them. anyway. That's because it wasn't a. standard, it was a tactic. Mhm. Well, yeah. When something is. tactic we do to try and get a result and. if it doesn't work, we go for a. different tactic. A standard is who we. are. So well said. And. we don't change it. Like if my standard. for being open and vulnerable was what I.

did in that moment with that person, I. wouldn't have stopped doing that just. because I didn't get the result that I. wanted. Yes. Which was connection. I would have. said, "Well, this is how I want to be.". And come to think of it, one of I would have said if I was in a. better place, one of my greatest standards is to find. someone who really accepts me. And if this person doesn't accept me, then my standard is going to be that. Well, maybe this relationship isn't for. me.

You know, I want to be this vulnerable. in a relationship. I want to be able to. share from the heart both the good and. the and the bad and my flaws and my. insecurities. And. if I'm not accepted, then okay, maybe. maybe it's not right. But instead, what. I did was I went down a very masochistic. rabbit hole of going, "I'm not good. enough. It's just been proven. I'm never going to reveal those. weaknesses again.". And I stayed. Mhm. Right? So, you're.

right about Audrey because I can. guarantee you. if I had not then said, "All right, I'm. going to show up differently." she would. have been out of there. And the big. difference is. we have to make the the goal our. happiness, not a person. You know, we think that we're going to. be happy by getting a person, but you'll. never be happy by getting a person that. doesn't meet your needs. Doesn't matter. how impressive you think they are. It. doesn't That's the That's the danger, right? That's the trap people fall into.

I've fallen into it. Someone's. particularly exciting, impressive, charismatic, gorgeous. There's something. There's They have all these things that. you go this makes them a very valuable. person and then you say well my needs. don't really matter anymore. The only. thing that matters is I can get this. person because we think if I can get. this person then I'll be worthy and I'll. be happy and it will all work out. But. everyone out there I you know most. people out there have been in a. relationship where.

they thought it would be heaven to get. someone. and then they. experienced what the relationship was. actually like when. their needs weren't being met. When they. didn't feel safe, when they didn't feel. acknowledged, when they didn't receive. someone's empathy, when they felt like. they couldn't really be themselves. around that person, when they felt like. they were constantly clinging onto the. relationship because they never you know. they were in a relationship with the. person but they never really felt like. they had them. You know that there's a special kind of.

hell. to be in a relationship like that. And. at a certain point we have to come to. realize that this is. this is this relationship I keep telling. myself I'm going to die if I lose it. is worthless. if I don't get these couple of things. that are missing. Yeah. And so for me one of the greatest ways. to have a standard next time round is. not you. there's a whole you know I.

wrote two massive chapters in this book. on how to be confident but you don't. even need. confidence for standards in the. beginning. Yes. You just need to know that I can. never experience that again because it's. too painful. It's like you don't need to. if I put your hand in a flame you don't. need to standard or confidence to get. out of it. Yeah. You just you don't need. self-worth to get your hand out of the. flame. You just it's just too painful. I. can't do that again. And a lot of people especially people. who leave really abusive or difficult.

relationships, a lot of them, when they have enough. time away from it, and they start to their nervous system. calms down, and they start to experience. a different reality, Yeah. they look back, and and they're like, I. No matter how much I still may dream. about that person or fantasize about. that person or, you know, get. sentimental about that relationship, when they really think about what it was. like to be in it, and what that person. was like,

they're like, I could never go back to. being in that kind of a situation. Yes. So, the necessity is is the birthplace. of standards before you ever increase. your self-worth. Yeah, and I love that. because I think we get so locked into. like self-worth, self-confidence, self-esteem, and because that's a lifelong journey. and a lifelong pursuit, you feel you. can't have standards. But, I want to go. back to something you said because I. think this is we're really I'm really. enjoying this conversation because I. feel like we're really getting into this. kind of. subtle nuanced space of what's really.

holding people back from having love in. their life. And it's something you said. earlier, which I'm kind of connecting to. what you're saying now, this difference. between an egoic standard, in your words, and then an. emotive standard, or an emotional. standard, and maybe there's a better. word for it that that you've developed. or come across. But, I'm trying to. separate it because I think an egoic. standard is, well, yeah, that. if they ask me out, they have to pay on. the first date. So, we start getting.

lost, or like, an egoic standard is, they should message me first. Like, I. don't think those are the types of. standards that Audrey said to you, or. the kind of standard that you're. recommending. There's this great My. favorite TikTok page to follow in the. world is called Guy With the List. Have. you seen this guy? So, what he does is he'll take random. videos of girls who share their icks. And they are hilarious, right? They are. the most ridiculous things. Like it's. like I don't like guys who work out with.

their mates. All the way through to I. don't like guys with uh a big bum, right? Whatever it may be. And this guy, what he'll do is he'll take the clip of. a girl saying that, and then he'll go to. his notes page in Apple and add it to. his list of things of not to be. It's. the best page in the world. So it's just the longest list of. ridiculous. the last time I saw. And it's like a guy. with the list. It's brilliant. And and. the reason I bring it up is because I. think that's what we think standards are.

now. Yeah. And I think to your point. earlier, I think you labeled it an egoic. standard. So walk us through how we. transform our egoic standards into I'm. calling them emotional standards, whatever the right word is. How do we. transfer them over because I think we. think we're setting standards, but. they're standards like he's got to pay. on the first date. She better text me first. I won't reply. for a week, the example you gave. And I. think that's what's tripping us up.

Yeah, I think that it's almost like. there's standards that arise from ego, and there's standards arise from what's. going to make us happy. And that. the two are often completely different, right? Because. actually the the things that make us. happy can be much more subtle and less. prescriptive than the things that feed. our ego in some way. This. There's two points I want to make about. this. Please. The first one is in relation to.

the kind of inherent judgment that is in. so many of those. icks and so many of those. things. I would never want someone who's. like this. I would never want someone. who does that. I would. The we write people off at lightning. speed. And not just entirely superficial. things, but ways that people are not. like us, right? So you've got people who. are like, oh, if they're not into,

especially like, you know, your audience. is into self-development, my audience. tends to be into self-development. It's. very easy for someone who gets into. self-development to suddenly be like, I. want somebody else who's into. self-development. Right? And I get that question all the. time. Like, now that I'm doing all of. this growth work, I want someone who can. keep up. I want someone who's on my. level. And. I want to remind people like, you. weren't doing this 2 years ago. Like this is. in a way, this is like a complete. contempt you have.

for you 2 years ago. Mhm. Wow. Before like a certain mentor or. influence or something came into your. life and turned you on to something. There's also a slight arrogance about. the standards, you know, the these. things we have. Because it's. you know, someone could have lived on a. farm their whole life. And they have no idea what. self-development even is as a kind of. idea, a concept. Let alone that there's.

this entire industry around it. And they. may have a wisdom that. you never picked up on in the world that. you grew up in. And that might be one of. the greatest bits of synergy between the. two of you is the wisdom you bring and. the wisdom they bring that's different. and has come from a very different. place, a very different way of living. So you know, I I think there's a lack of. humility sometimes in thinking that. people have to be like us. Mhm. And then judging them for the ways.

that they're not like us. And a lot of the way we judge other. people arises out of a lack of. self-compassion because we haven't. really accepted ourselves. We haven't. really. you know, I know every time I got punched in the. face by life, every time like I took a. big hit, and I, you know, experienced a really. bad heartbreak, that was a big one for me, like a very. humbling experience for me.

I experienced years of chronic physical. pain, and when that happened in my life, I like truly. just hit a kind of bottom, because I. just didn't know how I would ever. I could I tried everything in the world, and I couldn't make this pain go away. And I. it it started to basically. not just ruin my life, because I felt. like I couldn't. experience joy anymore. I was just. thinking about my pain all day, every.

day. But it also robbed me of my confidence, cuz I started to feel like, "Wow, no. one's going to be attracted to this. version of me that is so frail and. fragile, and. doesn't feel like I wasn't I really. didn't identify as the heroic version of. me anymore. I was like, "This is going. to I'm going to be perceived as pathetic. Mhm. by someone who wants like a strong. person, because I feel so on the edge of. breaking the whole time, cuz anyone with.

chronic physical pain knows that you. it's so centralizing, and even doing. basic things can feel like it's too. much.". Mhm. But my point is that that. going through those things in life, it allowed me to access a level of. compassion. for other people, because. I was like, "God, how many people have I. written off in my life because, you know, they. they're this way, or they're that way,

or they're, you know, and. look at me right now. I'm. I'm like on the floor." Yeah. And I. I found that as I came to accept more of. myself and be honest about my own stuff. and not just the things going wrong in. my life, but. even just difficulties. Like if you have. a jealous moment and it makes you a. little crazy, then you're not so quick to call other. people crazy when they, you know, react. to um insecurity they have and it makes.

them do something extreme in that. moment. You know, like the well, you. she's crazy. You can't believe what she. did. Like she's so she's crazy. It's like you don't you don't throw that. around when. you know you've done your share of like. crazy because you were in pain and you. didn't know how to. how to cope with it. Yeah. You know, it. So I've I've found that the more. the more I've.

like been humbled in life. and the more I've become accepting of. myself. and compassionate towards myself, actually the more Yeah, absolutely. space for everyone else because now I. wouldn't if I was single again, I. wouldn't be writing off. people on all of those things that I. might have written people off. for eight years ago or 10 years ago. I. actually think I would have more. options, not less. Like people say, "Oh, I'm growing so much. I've got so few. options now cuz so many few people are.

on my level." I'm like, "If you're. really growing, I actually think it. makes space for more people because you. become more compassionate and more. accepting um and you see the soul of. that person underneath those behaviors. and the way they are, which kind of. brings me on to my my other point, which. was. when, you know, the person says. they didn't pay on the day they invited. me and then, you know, they didn't pay for the whole. check or whatever. I think we're. we're not always good at getting behind.

why someone is the way they are. Like. what's really. driving. the way they are. Does this person have the same values as. me? They might do something different on. the surface, Mhm. but underneath that might be the same. value. Mhm. We just have arrived at different. points. Like my wife's a a vegetarian. I eat meat. Like we both love animals. And sincerely, I love animals. She makes.

jokes about me you know how much you. know how I am with animals is one of her. favorite things in the world, but I eat. them and she doesn't. Like we have we've arrived at different. places, but. underneath it all is like the same. beating heart. And I think that's the thing we're quick. to write off when we make those really. quick judgments about people. And that's. not to say like there are certain, you. know, red flags that might come up with. someone where you go, "You know what? Not worth finding out what's behind this.

because it's just too severe and I don't. I really don't like this and it has been. a major warning sign for me in the. past.". But I think that's that's different. Yeah. than taking something like, you. know, someone. someone didn't pay. half the bill or someone didn't pay the. whole bill and like I I know that I used. to think to myself, "I really enjoy. paying the bill." Mhm. But if someone didn't offer, Yeah. I've. for me I would be like.

it and this is even my judgment, right? Because that for them it might just be. conditioning and it might be I even. there were times where I even spoke up. about it where I found myself paying. constantly and I. got brave enough to say, "Hey, it makes. me feel. kind of taken for granted that you don't. ever offer to pay." You know, I've been. in situations like that in the past. And. sometimes if you said that to someone. they'd be like, "Oh my god, I feel. awful." Like they're they're so. embarrassed and they're like.

they will then feel shame about it and. be like, "God, I you know, they look at. themselves and they're like oh, I. slipped into a pattern there that I. don't like. Especially if I expressed. that it's not that I hate it's not that. I don't like paying, it's that I don't. feel like we're a team. Yes. You know, that might make someone. go well, I value being part of a team as. well. And I actually don't like that you don't. feel like I'm a great teammate. That's. the last thing in the world I'd ever. want to be. Yeah. So now like you can actually come. together because of a. a moment where you say something like.

that. But I know if I was on a date when I was. single and someone didn't even offer. And by the way, I would still pay. Yeah. I still wouldn't let them. Yeah, yeah. But if someone didn't offer, it. it would be there would be a little. piece of me that would be like. it doesn't that doesn't feel like. Yes. teamwork. Yeah. And maybe, you know, maybe fine if. someone invites you on a date and and. they let you pay half, okay, maybe you. say I don't I didn't love that. Yeah, yeah. But maybe you see like maybe.

that needs to play out once or twice. more before you decide everything that. means about the person. Yeah. Well, I I. think you just hit the nail on the head. It's like actually having and I know. this isn't sexy and it's not popular, but it is what you're trying to say that. having the clarifying conversation. around why someone behaves the way they. do is far more useful as to whether this. relationship has a future than what they. do. So the fact that you're paying or. someone's not paying.

actually doesn't show anything unless. you had a conversation about why that's. the case and actually how they deal with. that conversation and how they respond. to it is going to give you all the notes. you need as to whether this relationship. has a future or not because what ends up. happening that's with a very tangible. thing with paying. There could be. something that person does that annoys. you and you let it go for the first. month. You let it go for the first three. months. Now you move in and it triggers. you and you're like God, can you just. stop doing that? You've been doing it. for 9 months now. And they're like, "Well, wait a minute. Why didn't you. just tell me that?" And it's like,

"Well, if we actually talked about it on. month one." I know Radha and I have had. so many conversations like that. And it. is true that as you spend more time. together, A, you discover more things. you disagree on. And B, you discover. more things you're grateful for. They're. both happening at the same time. And the. disagreement doesn't turn into a. disconnect because you have the skills. to say, "I know how this person deals. with challenging conversations because. we've had them for so long. We're not. waiting for 3 years to hit to have our.

first challenging conversation because. we've already had them about less. important things. And now that we're. growing up together, like, you know, I. think a lot of people aren't having the. early conversations. So, when it comes. to like, how do we want to raise kids? Where do we want to live? What do you. want to All these are harder. conversations if you haven't talked. about who should pay for the bill. because these are much more bigger, emotional, conditioned decisions where. people have far more stuff to pull from. as to how they make it. There's so Yeah, so much to say about.

all of that. Go on. Yeah, go go go. I I You're. absolutely right. And Christopher. Hitchens used to say it's more important. how someone thinks than what they think. Mhm. And I think that we never. when we're being too judgmental or. assumptive, we don't necessarily learn. how someone thinks, we learn what they. think. And then we discard them based on. what they think or what they do. Mhm. You're absolutely right that by having. the conversation, you see how they deal. with the conversation itself, which. should by the way, for anyone wanting a.

serious relationship, it should That. should be like one of your baseline. needs is that I need someone who. is willing to have real conversations. with me. where we can acknowledge things cuz. someone who can't acknowledge things. can't grow. Right? It's like one of the. key features of of narcissism is the. inability to admit wrongdoing. Mhm. and that breeds incompetence by the. way because if you can't admit. wrongdoing and take ownership, you can't. get better. Mhm. at something. So, you know, whether.

you're dealing with narcissism or just. someone who can't see themselves clearly. or can't acknowledge the way you feel or. the way something they've done has made. you feel, if you're in that situation, it's going. to it's going to be a rough. relationship. So, how soon do you want. to find out the way the two of you. engage on that level? But it's also engaging on that level is. a form This is I think what we've what. we forget is that Well, let me make two. points about this. The.

I wrote an entire chapter in this book. on hard conversations, not just because. we tend to avoid them at all costs cuz. we don't like them. Like it's like you. know, in Fight Club where the you know, he he says like most men will do. anything to avoid a fight. Like it's. like most people will do anything to. avoid a hard conversation cuz we just. hate It's awkward. It's embarrassing. You know, probably many of us grew up. not being good at confrontation or not. being taught how to have healthy. confrontation. And so, we we avoid it.

hold on to it. We hold on to it and we're afraid what. will happen if we speak up about our. needs. I know that one thing I I did a. disservice to to people that I had in my. love life. uh in previous times of my life because. the times where I might have really. needed some time to myself, I didn't express it. And then by not. expressing it because I was afraid, I then became. like resentful and avoidant and started.

to push that person away because I had. just decided my needs couldn't be met in. this relationship. Yeah. without giving them a chance to. even see that part of me and show up for. me in that way. So, we do that all the. way to the beginning of dating. You. know, we do that when we see, you know, that I I joke in the book about red. flags because I'm like. if we listen to every single piece of. advice on the internet about what's a. red flag, not only would everyone be. undatable, so would we. Right? Like I'd be excluded from the.

dating pool because I for sure have some. of those red flags or have had at some. point in my life. So, you know, we and that's I don't want to. be hypocritical. I've been a contributor. to the advice on red flags, but like. when you start adding them all up, you're like, "Oh my god, is there any. room for mistakes? Is there any room for. someone to do something that you know, isn't them on their best day?" Now, Robert Greene, I've heard him say,

"You know, if someone does something, pay attention to that because nobody. ever does anything once. If they did it. once, it's a pattern.". I think that's an amazing like if I was. creating a survival guide for life, that. would go in it because it's great. advice. But I also know that there's things I've. done in my life or my relationship that. I did once, especially after a hard. conversation, I felt bad about and. and decided I don't want to be that.

person or I don't want to do that again. So, we do want to reserve some space in. life for the fact that. we can learn, we can adapt, we can. progress. What I know for sure is that. people don't progress without the hard. conversations. What we ignore, we. tacitly approve. And what we point out bravely, albeit. there are elegant ways to do it and I. show people elegant ways to do it. In. the book, yeah. Yeah. That to me is then you you're looking.

for progress. Like is when I've mentioned it, is does. it bring us closer together cuz in the. right situation, communicating should. actually bring you closer together. It. shouldn't then you shouldn't feel. gaslit, you shouldn't feel like you're. called crazy or difficult or that should. actually bring you together. And then our standard has to be that. by having that conversation, I need to. see progress in that area. And if I. don't see progress in that area, I'm not. going to ignore the fact that there's.

been no progress in that area. But if. there's no progress, now it has become a kind of a delusional. thing to expect that they're going to. change. But I can't stress this enough, we in. our love lives today, everyone is. really, really good at. and rightly so, I'm not This is. What they're talking about is real, but. we're really good at complaining about. what dating is like today. and how hard it is. And it is. Like it it is hard. Finding.

love is hard. It is the wild west. It There is so much. bad behavior. There's so many. So many ways to just God, there's just. so many ways for it to be bad. Mhm. And. unfortunately for us, our love life is. an area we can influence, but we we. can't control it to the level of. precision that we can other areas of our. lives. If we want to lose weight, we can. eat better and we can work out and our. body will change. May not get to our. perfect weight, but it will change.

reliably. In your love life, you can go on a date. every day for the next year and still. not find love. Or you can find love and. 6 months later that person cheats on you. and leaves you and you're back to square. one. It's an maddening area in many ways. because we deeply want to find love. It. is one of the most human of desires is. to find love and. it panics us. Mhm. At first it frustrates us and it makes. us angry and but at some point for many.

people it panics them because they're. worried I'm never going to meet anyone. Mhm. We can't just. decide I'm going to find love in the. next 3 months and make it happen. But. what we have to start taking ownership. of and where we have to start taking our. power back is that. you can go into your dating life from a. place of leadership. And so many people I think go in with a. state of following like what's the level.

right now of people's effort? What's the. level of men's chivalry? What's the. level of. whether people pick up the phone or not. instead of relentlessly texting? What's. the level of communication between dates. or the. what I can expect from someone in terms. of. assurances that we're just seeing each. other. Like. there's. all this rhetoric about where things are. and people don't try anymore and no one. wants to commit and so on. But if you're.

not careful you can get into a really. passive state about all of that. Mitch Albom said if you don't like the. culture, you have to be brave enough to. create your own. And. by the way, that's what we do in. business, right? That's what you've done. in your business is that you've created. a culture that you love. that is right for you. And that's what. you. you know, in a the most positive way. infect your team with is that beautiful. culture and that amazing way that you. see the world and the way that you do. things and it makes your organization.

unlike any other in the world. It's got. your thumbprint on it. That's the beauty in a way of starting a. business is that you get to do it your. way. And. our love life can be the same. We can. decide what's the culture. that I want to have. Instead of. commenting on culture, what's the culture I want to create in. my love life? If someone. you know, if I'm sick of this whole. constant texting thing, well, why don't. I be the one to leave someone a voice. note today? Like why.

if someone's just sent me the 50th text, why don't I send them back when they ask. me how am I doing today? Why don't I. like. just say it maybe it's too scary to call. them, but maybe I just leave a voice. note and say, "Hey, how you doing? I thought I'd. you know, I thought I'd leave you a. voice note. I'm out with my sister right. now. We're in IKEA. We're trying to find. furniture for this thing. I'll send you. a picture because I am dreading getting. home and having to actually make this. Tell me about your day. Like, how you.

doing? Blah blah blah." Like, you know. you can inject a different level of. energy and and enthusiasm or sexiness or. flirtatiousness or whatever it may be. A. little laugh here that's endearing. You can do all of that in a voice note. in a way that when someone listens to. it, now it's not just another text on. their phone. You're like attacking a. different sense. Yeah. And that will. increase the level of intimacy even just. by 1%, 2%. And that might just make you Like,

that's leadership you're not just We we. spend so much time mirroring people. Like, I'm going to mirror how someone. else is. what someone else is giving me and this. this person I'm seeing. But, we have to. start modeling more. Like, it it Don't. get me wrong. If you model behavior that. you want to see. by being the one who picks up the phone. first or leaves the voice note and then. they they don't meet you there, then you can say, "Okay, I'm going to. start to Mhm. mirror their lack of. investment. I'm going to start to back.

off." But, you can't just be in a state. of mirroring all the time. Like, this It. works on every level, man. I was I was. at my coffee shop this morning and. there's a guy there that really like we. always have like a really nice like. 3-minute conversation. And this morning. like it never goes further than that, but this morning as he was going to. really like we always have like a really. nice like 3-minute conversation. And this morning like it never goes. further than that, but this morning as. he was going to the coffee bar, he said, "Can I get you a coffee?". Now, like I remember in that moment I. thought that was like a little moment of.

like vulnerability and leadership. that was like. had the potential to upgrade the. relationship. Do you know what I mean? Like, this is just another guy in a. coffee shop, but it was like, oh, we. might here. you offered me a coffee, I say yes, and. now like. our relationship is one where you got me. a coffee. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now we might sit. for 10 minutes on That's how things. move, but they can't move if you're in. this like fearful, protectionist, I. don't want to get hurt, I don't want to. give more than the other person, I don't.

want to That's not a good standard to. have. A great standard to have is lead. and model the kind of culture you want. to see. And if someone doesn't meet you. there, that's where the standard comes. in. Yes. That's where you Of course, the. standard is modeling, but the the. counter standard, if they don't meet you. there, is to say, this isn't someone I'm. going to continue modeling that kind of. investment for because they're not. meeting me there. Yeah. That is Oh, man, that is so well put, and I'm so glad.

that you. made that so clear because. I couldn't agree with you more. I feel. like. we're limiting ourselves so much. And we're actually creating, what you. just ended on there, is a really. powerful point. We're actually creating. a culture that even if this relationship. lasts, it'll be set at the wrong level. So, the culture of that relationship now. is we sometimes text, we rarely call. And now, even if the relationship lasts. and we do like each other a little bit, it's never going to change from that.

So, you're way better off setting the. standard and the culture from day one. and seeing if it develops and grows. And. I find what most people do, and I think. we've all experienced this, is for 3 to. 6 months we try and not disrupt the. culture, and then 6 months later we're. like, no, no, no, but I always wanted. this and I thought we were going to get. there. And the person's like, no, no, no, but this is what we are. And I. remember that Radey, who's the only person I've ever been. with since I left the monastery, like it. was like she was the person that I was. fully clear with about who I was, what.

are my expectations were, where we were. And thankfully, she was that back, too. And we had some really hard. conversations early on about some big. things that were important to her, not. important to me, important to me, not. important to her. And what I loved was. how we talked about those things and how. how we kind of navigated those things. And it's not that we're perfect and we. don't have issues. We have so many. challenges, you know, we've been. together for 11 years now. There's so. many things that have come up over the. years that have given us different. challenges.

But the difference is we set a culture. of how to deal with difficult things. early on. And I think what I hear time. and time again, and I know you hear this. probably 10x the amount I hear this, it all comes down to the fact that we. want people. to like us so bad. that we're willing to act unlike. ourselves in order for them to like us. Because if they can like a version of. us, then that's good enough for us. And.

so if the version is I never bother you, I never text, I never call you, we will. be that person for you because that. makes you like me. We all love to be. referred to as that person who's like, "Oh yeah, they're low maintenance." And. we love that label. We're like, "Yeah, yeah, I'm low maintenance." And inside. we're like, "Yeah, I mean, I've got way. more needs than this, but guess what? I've set the culture of being low. maintenance. Now a year later, they're. like, 'Wait a minute, you were low. maintenance a year ago. Why are you high. maintenance?'" Yeah, and there there's.

two problems with that. One is that it. can actually make it so that someone. can't even really read us or our. intentions. It's a bit like when someone. is like wants to be cool and. indifferent. Well, if I I There's a story I tell in. the book of a friend of mine who was. dating someone and then went on a trip. and he didn't really reach out to her on. that trip. And by the time he got home after a few. days, she said to him it on the phone, "It the fact that you were away and you.

didn't really speak to me made me feel. funny. Like it made me feel like you. might have been sharing your bed with. someone else.". Mhm. And they hadn't been on like this. isn't two people who had been dating for. 6 months. They'd been on a couple of. dates. But. that was the moment when he said to me, "I think I like this person.". Mhm. Because there was an intentionality. to it. She didn't go, "I'm being high. maintenance by saying this.". She just communicated what she was.

feeling and by doing that, instead of. being cool, indifferent girl, like. like chill, I'm chill, like I don't care. that you didn't text me while you were. away. She went, "No, no, no, no. It made. me feel funny. Yeah. because it would it did suck text. is it would hurt me it to know like. maybe we haven't known each other that. long, but it would still make me feel. something to know that you'd shared your. bed with someone else while you were. away. That's a that's a very powerful thing to. do. Because if he's seeing multiple people.

in that moment, all of them playing cool, indifferent, whatever, he now sees someone who is. actually telegraphing the kind of person. she is, that she's a three-dimensional. person. with real feelings. and that she wants something more. She. is not the kind of person to date if you. don't want something more. Mhm. And by the way, even the first time. someone gets like it just a little bit. jealous of something can be a moment of.

intentionality in a relationship cuz you. the moment you see someone's a little. bit like they convey a little bit of. even if it's playful jealousy, they're. all I don't like it that made me feel. funny. You're not allowed to text that. but whatever. You can go you can almost can make you. like that person more cuz you can go. oh that's like. it's almost like you've telegraphed that. we've gone to an a new level where. jealousy is even possible. Yeah. Because. at the beginning jealousy wasn't even. possible. Now it is you must like me. I.

think I like you too. You know it's like. there's a we we're so afraid of of. saying these things that actually. telegraph intentionality. Mhm. Which is a really really powerful. thing. Yeah, but we're but it all comes. down back to the root of we're so. scared. Because we're scared that that person. will leave and often they will because. their friends saying to them oh yeah man. they're psycho or they're obsessive. leave right? And so we don't want these. extreme labels.

And I think often so we're scared of. looking unattractive. We're scared of. being unwanted. We're scared of being. rejected, right? That's the reason we. don't say any of this because we're like. if I say that they're going to think I'm. psycho, crazy, obsessed and I don't want. to come across that way. And so I won't. say anything until one year on which by. the way they're going to think the same. exact thing when it's a full surprise. So I want to talk to you about that. And. then the other idea that I see a lot of. that people get stuck on is when they.

say something they say it as a demand. or a command where it's like well I. expect you to do this and that's where I. think it's unhealthy. Because I like. someone being honest with me but I also. don't want that to be my progress report. because I may have a really good thing. to say back. And so if I'm going to say. back if someone was like if someone said. that to me like you didn't contact me. I'll be like yeah you know what when I. travel I do really struggle to stay in. touch with anyone because I'm really. trying to be present I'm really trying. to immerse. But now that I know that's a.

value for you next time I go away let's. talk about how often we can both keep in. touch realistically because I'm also not. going to promise I'm going to call you. every single day, even if I'm really. excited about you, because I'm also. going to set my standard back. And I. think often people don't want to hear. that either. They want to hear someone. say, "Oh, of course, I I understand. everything you're saying, and I'm going. to call you every day when I go away. again." And so, one side is you're. scared of getting fully rejected, and. the other side is you're scared of not. getting exactly what you want. And I. don't think both those expectations are.

useful because. you might get rejected, and you're never. going to get exactly what you want in an. authentic way. No, and I I I think. that's why we, if we're the one who. wants something, we have to zoom out enough to look at. whether this person and what they bring. to our life and what this relationship. is like holistically. is enough for us. Because we may say, "I want this person.

to call me every day," but that may. genuinely not be their style. Right? It's They're not someone who enjoys. sitting on the phone as much as you do. Yeah. Um they might pick up the phone. and call you every couple of days, but. in the meantime, they will text you or. you have to It's like you have to zoom. out and go, "How much of this. relationship, not these moments whether. they call or not, how much of this. relationship. Correct. meets my needs? You know, what what are the fundamental.

things? Well, I need to feel safe with. someone. Like I need to feel like they. actually want me. And that I'm not kind of investing under. a misapprehension about what this is. I. need to know at a certain point that. regardless of our differences, we're. giving this a go and we're exclusive. Right? So, that might be one thing. Another thing is I need to feel like. whether it's on the exact platform I. might have hoped, I need to feel like I. get enough communication,

you know, holistically in this. relationship to feel like. I'm actually connected to this person. You know, if someone very rarely travels. and then they go away and you don't hear. from them a lot when they travel, that. may not be a big deal. If they're on the. road half the year and then they're not. really connecting with you while they're. traveling, that's going to have a much. bigger impact on your life. It doesn't. make them wrong, but it might not be enough for you. Yeah. And that's where we have to start. getting really honest with ourselves. We.

get so caught up in who's right and. wrong and we don't spend enough time. just asking, is it right for me? Is it. Is this Does this person work well with. me? Are we compatible? And And compatibility is is everything, you know, you can't I talk about four. levels of importance in any relationship. or any person any dynamic you have with. a person. The first one is admiration. That's just you admiring someone. It.

doesn't mean very much. They may not. even know you exist. The second one is. mutual attraction. That's when you. actually know you like each other. The. third one is commitment. That's when you. don't just like each other, but you're. actually saying yes to the relationship. And the fourth one is compatibility. because actually love isn't all you. need. Mhm. You need two people who actually. work well together. You know, is it's. not Is this person. you know, am I good at handling them and. are they good at handling me?

Mhm. Like that's a pretty I think that's. a pretty good barometer of a. relationship. We I came to this. one. Yeah, because you're going to come. with your stuff. This nonsense of like. we have to come to a relationship fully. healed. Who does? No one. Who? Like it's an it's a it's this idea. that gets talked about that no one. actually does. No one comes to a I'm. going to make myself whole and healed. and everything before a relationship. Good luck. And by the way, half the. people who say that stuff who have been.

married 10 years, they weren't that way. when they met their partner. Totally. So, we find imperfect people. You know, you you the. we are damaged vessels that somehow. still work. And that's beautiful. And. we're trying to find another. damaged vessel that we go, "Oh, I. understand the. I understand the fabric of their. challenges and what they struggle with. or at least I it makes sense to me when.

I hear it. And you know, I have. compassion for it and I have empathy for. it and I have affection for it even. Um. and vice versa. And so, now when we go. through our inevitable things, we're. just good at handling each other. So, it's when we when we have a standard, we may not end up exactly where we want. to be, but. the ultimate standard of holistically, are you getting what you need from this.

relationship? That's a really important question that. not enough people ask. And as a result, they suffer in unhappy. relationships. Yeah. It's so interesting. to get into that kind of. you know, to go beyond that superficial. conversation of make a list of what you. want and like, you know, try and find it. out and you know, that that kind of. egocentric list that we get. Let's let's. talk a bit about breakups because. I think the challenge is that everyone. in their life goes through at least one.

or two, maybe more, really painful breakups. Whether it's infidelity, whether it's. out it feels out of the blue, someone. just goes, "Yep, not working out for me. anymore." Whether it's different goals. and different plans and priorities that. emerge over time. And I think everyone. who goes through a breakup. blames it on themselves often, thinks. that this is the end. There'll never be. another person. And it feels like a. really dark, dark, dark, empty road and.

a lonely road. And. I think it's really interesting because. there's so many, you know, piece of. advice and everything about like how to. get over a breakup. And I And I've. talked about that as well myself, but I. just find that it seems to be a path. that you have to walk and have to take. And there's no real acceleration. or there's not As you said, there's not. like I'm going to get over this breakup. in 3 months, right? There's no timeline. or deadline that you can set on it. But it's just uncomfortable and it's. almost like sitting in discomfort.

What do we do when we're sitting in that. discomfort? Well, when you're in the. depths of it, cuz there's different. phases, right? Like there's a certainly. a phase of any heartbreak when it's. genuine, deep heartbreak, where you are just questioning your. existence, where you are like. I this you know, I remember having my. own heart broken and sitting on the door. the the doorstep of my house with a. friend of mine.

And just with tears in my eyes saying to. him, I just feel like I'm not good. enough. Like. that was my deep sense. was that I am not good enough. And if I. was good enough, I would have been able to make this. work. And. and that's a that's a horrible place to. be. And you you know, we have to have. compassion for ourselves in those times. because. it's brutally difficult.

It's a time where we just need. love and we need to. celebrate the fact that we got through. another day and that we got and managed. to get out of bed today. And. you know, it was a act of it was a. heroic act for me to just get out of. bed. We then have to. you know, I always think that all of. these moments give us gears that we. wouldn't have had otherwise.

And the worst pain of my life has given. me. access to gears that I didn't know I. had. And as much as no one wants to hear it. when they're in it, those gears turn out to be really. valuable. They they really do. I mean, we all choose suffering in our lives. Like we we choose to go to the gym. That's choosing suffering. We choose. like to write a book. That's choosing a. form of suffering. We choose to make a.

podcast or we choose to climb a literal. mountain or like we choose pain. in our lives regularly because we know. that it gives us there are benefits to. be had. I have to argue that the benefit. I have gotten from the pain that I. didn't choose. has been no less valuable than the. benefit I've gotten from the pain I did. choose. In fact, actually I think the most valuable pain. I've ever had is the pain I didn't. choose. And when you realize that,

you can kind of almost, I think, look at. some of the worst moments of your life. as like a menu of pain. And beside the item on the menu is the. very specific unique benefits that can. only come from this kind of pain. And. you can kind of imagine yourself. choosing. like retroactively choosing that pain. Which is a very valuable thing to do. because there's I was told by a.

psychologist about an experiment on rats. where uh. one rat was on a wheel and was just. given. you know, like the free rein to just run. whenever it wanted to run. There was another rat, this was rat A, rat B was connected to that wheel. He. was on another wheel. that was connected to rat A's wheel. And anytime rat A chose to run, rat B had to run.

Right? So, both doing the same amount of. exercising. But at the end of the experiment, rat A. shows all the positive markers of. exercise, and rat B shows all the. negative markers of stress. Oh, wow. Same amount of exercise was the. difference. Well, rat A chose to run. Rat B didn't. And that there's something profound. about that. to me because if we can take a situation. that we didn't choose, who would choose.

to be heartbroken, right? It's the. worst. It's terrible pain. But But what. if. in that pain you did realize like there. is something. here. that I'm going to gain from this. experience. that I couldn't have any other way. That if I look on that menu of pain, this one has some really good benefits. Like this one has some really amazing. stuff. Who I'm going to have to become. to get through this, what I'm going to. have to learn, the way I'm going to have.

to get comfort even just to get through. a weekend. right now on my own. is. it it is going to be this unbelievable. feat. And to get comfortable in my own company. and to sit in this pain and. it there are such profound benefits from. that. What if I did actually look at. those benefits and say they're so. powerful. that I'm going to choose this pain so. that I can experience those benefits. And so you you turn yourself from rat B.

to rat A, and all of a sudden you're not. a victim of of pain anymore. You're. you're the beneficiary. of. these exquisite gifts that you could. only get this way. And that. that's only there's one tool I've used. to get through some of the worst worst. pain of my life. And then on a practical. on a psychological level with. heartbreak, what I always remind people is that. if.

anyone who doesn't choose you cannot be. for you. They if they don't see you, like what is a relationship? It's. someone sees you, they accept you, and they want that. That's that's the most beautiful part of. a relationship. So if someone doesn't. see you and accept you and want what. they see, then this relationship is missing the. most beautiful part of any relationship. It shouldn't even be you know, it. shouldn't be desirable at that stage.

because it's not. it has failed the fundamental test of. what makes a relationship worth having. We're not talking about a person who, you know, in in at least the case I feel. we're talking about, the person who was. taken from us by life. We're talking about a person who's just. walking around somewhere, still existing. on the planet, but choosing not to be. with us. That should lose its romance to us. It you know, and and to say, "Well, if.

that's the other game we play is if it. was a different time in life, if they. were a bit older, they would have been. ready to commit, if they had been in a. different phase where they weren't so. busy with their work, they might have. had the space to really give to this. relationship, but they said their work. isn't allowing them to." If it is like. we go through all these scenarios where. it it forces us into this sad love song. of right person wrong time. And that's a really like.

pernicious story. You that's a very dangerous story. Because it. it takes. what belongs in the realm of science. fiction. and brings it into our reality. Like. when we're thinking about an ex from. like 5 years ago. and we're like, I miss them. I don't. know what I You know, like you don't. even know who they are anymore. That was 5 years ago. They're a. different person now in many ways. You're a different person now in any. way. If you got together now, you'd be. getting together as different people.

You miss a ghost. Person doesn't exist anymore in the way. that you think they do. You know, and when you're saying, "Oh, if only we met 5 years from now, it. would have worked.". In what parallel universe? It's a This. is science fiction. Like it's not It didn't happen in this. universe. So, it's. it's like it is wishing. for. a parallel universe where everything all. the dominoes unfolded in a different. way. It's not this universe.

So, we just we have to get out of this. mindset because it gets us bought into. a a science fiction story that doesn't. really exist. I don't believe in the. right person at the wrong time. It's The right person is right in their. personality, they're ready, and their life is compatible with yours. If you're missing one of those three. things, then it's not the right person.

The right person has to be more than. someone who you have a great time with. and you like who they are and have great. conversation and and and great intimacy. That can't That's not the only criteria. for someone who's right. So, we have to. stop telling ourselves the story. that someone who, you know, broke up with us or it was bad. timing or whatever, is the right person. for us. That is a That is just a story. It is not reality. The right person is the person it. happens with.

Matthew Hussey, book's called Love Life. That was That hit right there, man. That. That resonated so deeply. If you haven't. already gone and ordered this while. you're listening or watching, please. please please go and grab this book. As. you can tell, Matthew's just woven. beautifully his own experiences, his own. challenges mixed in with insights, lessons, research, practical steps. I. mean, it's all in the book. And today. we've just given you a little tip of the. iceberg of. And And this was genuinely just a real. conversation of me and Matthew going.

back and forth, which we need to do a. lot more of. Uh but But just sitting. here with you today, Matthew, I've I've. gained so much. So much, honestly. And And as someone. who's written a book about love, too, there was so much today that I feel like. we uncovered and unpacked. And so, I. can't wait for people to dive into Love. Life, How to Raise Your Standards, Find. Your Person, and Live Happily No Matter. What. Grab your copy now. Matthew, thank. you again. Uh everyone who's been listening and. watching, share and tag your greatest. insights with me and Matthew on. Instagram, on TikTok. I know you guys. are cutting up all these amazing clips.

Keep them coming. Let us know what. resonated with you, what you're trying. out, what you're practicing, what you're. implementing, what's working for you. And something that you're struggling. with, as well. Let us know so that we. can try to create more conversations and. more content that can support you on. your journey. Uh Matthew, thank you. Any. Any last words? You got anything you. want to share? No, I I would just say, um if people go to lovelifebook.com, not. only can you get the book there from any. retailer you want, um but I'm doing an. event on May 4th called Find Your. Person. It's designed to be this It's a.

virtual event, so you could do it from. wherever you are in the world, wherever. you buy the book from. Um but we're all going to get together, and I'm going to take everything that. you learn from the book and apply it to. a year plan with you. I love that. For. anyone who is like, "Finding my person. is a real priority for for me in my. life. It's what I deeply want. I'm not. ashamed of it. I want that for myself.". Um this is going to take all of the. knowledge and the awareness and the. ideas you have from the book and. actually put you on a path in this live.

event to getting that over the course of. the next year of your life. So. Yeah, if you go to lovelifebook.com, you. can not only get the book, you can use. your receipt from the book to get a free. ticket to this event. It's not a you. know, it's not a paid for event. No one. can come just by buying their way onto. it. It's literally something that's just. reserved for everyone who's getting a. copy of the book. So. that. Beautiful idea, man. Well, yeah, lovelifebook.com everyone. That's the. place to go. If you loved this episode, you're going to love my conversation. with Matthew Hussey on how to get over. your ex and find true love in your.

relationships. People should be. compassionate to themselves, but extend. that compassion to your future self. because truly extending your compassion. to your future self is doing something. that gives him or her a shot at a happy. and a peaceful life.