Pop Star Jay Sean REVEALS The TRUTH Behind Ageism in the Music Industry

I lost myself. Even when I was behind. the mic singing it, there was no smile. on my face. It was me against everyone. else in the music industry. Next guest. is taking America by storm, clocking up. seriously huge hits. Baby, are you down, down, down, down, down? Jay Sean! I would get in my car. and just cry cuz I was so lost and so. scared. Who else gets a major record deal and. then walks away from it? I'm bringing. back. Before we jump into this episode, I'd. like to invite you to join this. community to hear more interviews that.

will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I want you to do is. click on the subscribe button. I love. your support. It's incredible to see all. your comments, and we're just getting. started. I can't wait to go on this. journey with you. Thank you so much for. subscribing. It means the world to me. The best-selling author and host. The number one health and wellness. podcast. with Jay Shetty. The first time I met you was the first. week I moved to LA. Wow. Because I met. Jeremy, who you've been working with for.

a long time. I love you, Jeremy. Yeah. And Jeremy introduced us. And this was in 2018. Mhm. And I loved how genuine you were, how down-to-earth you were. Like, it was. so easy to chat to you. Like, we we hit. it off right away, and I wish you lived. in LA still so we could hang out all the. time. I know. We keep talking about that, right? But no, it is. It's It's so. lovely to be here with you, bro. So. proud of you and what you've done. You. know what I mean? I know that you have guests on and it's.

about them, but you know, what you've. been doing, I've been watching. everything. It's. amazing. Makes me proud. And you know, obviously, we're both from England, you. know, both from What What part of London. were you from? North London. North London. Okay, so I was West. London, obviously, Hounslow. Southall, of course, first. Standard. As. cliche as it gets for any Indian. But. you know, it's not easy, right? Having these lofty dreams, you know, and. then being here in LA, which is. literally the land of of dreams. And. broken dreams, let's be honest about. that. There's people who have goals and.

but there's also broken dreams. So, to. be able to, you know, do what what. you're doing and what I'm doing is is. it's really beautiful. So, yeah, thank. you for having me, man. Yeah, man. We let's let's let's start. there because. I think. I find it really interesting. At one. point in my life, I think I had big. dreams when I was a teenager, but I. never actually believed the dreams could. be real. Because I didn't have role. models, people I could see doing those. things. Did you always have big dreams. and a belief that that your life could. go down that way? You know, um brother,

one thing about me, ever since I was a. kid, I always wanted to A, work my. hardest, try my hardest, and apply. myself. Uh I've been a very driven person ever. since I was a kid, and I think really. and so is so is my brother. I have one. brother, Naru. And I think both of us. have that we share that same quality. We're very very highly driven people. Now, that comes solely from my parents. It really does. Um my dad is a big big. dreamer. Big dreamer, bro. And I only.

found out recently like when I started. going into music and my brother went. into film, that these were also my dad's. dreams, but they were hidden. My dad. always, you know, my dad used to write. poetry, and nobody ever knew it, but he. ended up being a businessman and a very. successful businessman. Um but seeing my dad's drive, um and my. mom is super hard working as well, we. were always inspired by by that. Like, wow, like, how did dad do this? He had. three factories. He used to manufactured. denim for like, you know, Topman and. River Island, all these places. They. used to make all the jeans. And it came.

from nothing. Came from just a a vision. So, that was then, but then also they. put us into uh private school. Now, private school in England, as you know, it's it's it costs a lot of money. Now, I could have gone to a school in the. area that I lived in, Hounslow, but it wasn't the most affluent area. time. It wasn't the best school system. at the time. So, my parents wanted to be. able to put us into an education system. where they felt like we could excel. And so, they did. But, that was a. sacrifice.

They didn't get to go on holidays every. summer and go to Barbados. And that. money they invested into my me and my. brother. And I think. because I saw that sacrifice, we always. wanted to work hard. So, we we you know, we knew what they were doing was for us. Um but, the school that we went to. was I think And Latymer Upper School, I. have to shout them out because an. incredible school because not only did. you have to be smart to get in. So, you. had smart kids. But, they weren't like, "Oh, stuffy. I go to Latymer. And I.

don't do anything fun." No, it was. creative. They were fun. We had we had. so much of a laugh. And it was an. all-boys school. And the reason I'm. telling you that is we weren't getting. dressed up during the day to impress. girls. I wasn't doing my hair to impress girls. So, how did you make friends? How did. you become the popular one? Everyone was. smart. You had to have something. You. had to either be the funny guy or you. had to be the the athletic dude or you. had to be like the captain of the. football team. So, everybody excelled. But, at in a in.

a in a competitive way, but like in a. nice friendly competitive manner. So, that has always been my nature. to to do well. and to to apply myself to whatever I do. And I think I've been like that my whole. life. That's why I I always, you know, I'm always doing different stuff, picking up different projects because if. this is all we got, bro, you know, why not make the most of it? Do do the things you enjoy and try to. try to see how far you can get with. them. Yeah, definitely. What what what was it.

like having those conversations. with your parents in those early days? Yeah. Because we've talked about it a. million times. And every Indian has that. pressure. And even. you know, the other night I was at an. event and it was the same thing where. like Indian parents are talking about. this idea of just like doctor, lawyer, engineer. We've heard it a million. times, but. you were on that path, yeah? You were on. that path to make your parents the. proudest. Yeah. are coming in a doctor. And I think there are a lot of people.

who listen to this, and even if they. don't have an Indian upbringing, they. may have an upbringing where their. parents' expectations mean something. Absolutely. And their parents' expectations. are important to them because they love. their parents, and they see their. sacrifice. A lot of people who are. listening maybe thinking, "My parents. work so hard. I look ungrateful if I. follow my dreams." Mhm. What was that. like? Absolutely. Listen, that's such a good. point, Jay, because. I I of course I get asked that question. a lot, right? Like And and some people. might not know. You're right, I was on. my path to be in a doctor.

It's not just necessarily an Asian. thing. We can really break this down because as. a parent now myself, I understand what it's like to want the. best for your kids. You want them not to. struggle. You want them to have a profession. You. don't want them to be like, "Oh, yeah, you know, I have this dream. I want to. be an art or painter and this that." And. you're like, "That's great, and I love. that, but I also don't want you to. struggle for money. I don't So, you. don't have to be an Asian parent to want. your kids to do well in school job. Mhm. But the Asian thing, the reason it's a.

stereotype, I think personally, is. because we were immigrants. Mhm. So, therefore, you can't come with a dream. and you could you couldn't come on a. ship from India, come to England to go, "Hmm, I want to be a professional. gymnast." They were like, "What? Shut. up, bro. You just left the bin. You've. left the village. You need to earn. money." Yeah. So, the our grandparents. didn't get to have a lofty dream. They. just had to work hard. They had to work. two jobs sometimes, three jobs to put. food on the table. So, then therefore, that also gets passed down to the to.

their kids. Um but with my with my. particular situation, um the medicine wasn't my parents' dream. for me. It was actually mine. I was a. super nerd in school, bro. I loved. getting straight A grades. I I loved. working hard and then. seeing the fruits of my labor. So, when. I used to get those top grades, it made. me feel like I'd achieved something. And. it wasn't like, "Oh, mom and dad will be. happy." I knew they'd be happy as well, but it was like, "I'm happy for myself. I worked hard for this." Right? So, I. actually got fascinated with science. I.

still am. Completely and utterly. fascinated with the human mind and the. human body. So, before I did medicine. actually, bro, I actually No, no one. many people know this. I think you might. be the first person who knows this. I. actually did a degree in a combined. science degree in psychology and. biology. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Right. So, I did a degree in psychology and. biology, bachelor of science. Um I fully enjoyed. it. And then I was thinking I'm going to. go on to perhaps become. a a psychologist or a psychiatrist. I.

wanted to help people. I wanted to. get into That's always been my thing. Ended up. applying for medicine. And did 2 years of medicine. But like anybody, you have hobbies. My hobby was music. So, I was probably about 12 or 13 years old. when I got obsessed with hip-hop. I. couldn't give it up. I was writing raps. at the age of 13 because I was watching.

these rappers from Do you remember Yo! MTV I don't know if you remember this. Probably. Um Yo! MTV Raps, okay, used to be cuz in. England, growing up in England, we. didn't have access to A, of course, we. We didn't have access to all of these. hip-hop shows. So, we had this cable. show on MTV and it would come on and it. was called Yo! MTV Raps with Ed Lover. and Dr. Dre. I had MTV Base with Kevin. Nelson with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. And Westwood. Yeah, Westwood, all of. that. Obviously, I'm going completely. off off topic. I wanted you to. But but yeah, like.

point being, you know, that that. applying yourself and and uh working. hard and all that stuff, it was anything. I took an interest in, I would take it. to the extreme. So, science, work, academia, interested in it, want to do. well, took it to the extreme. Let's go. 1 degree. All right. No, but I want to do this, too. And in my head, there was nothing saying. you can't do that. There was nothing saying you don't need. a degree, bro. Chill now, go get a job. I was like, "No, but I'm also want to do. this.".

And I think I've always been like that. my whole life. So, there I am studying. medicine, but I also want us for some. weird reason go on stage and rap. I was. a rapper then. Yeah. I wasn't a singer. Yeah. Anyway, so I've always been juggling, bro. I've always been juggling things. I'm passionate about. What's what's been. something that you think you've taken to. the extreme more recently? Or is that. mindset still there, or has that changed. as time's gone on? So, it's not. necessarily taking things to an extreme.

recently, but I have really been. interested in being, you know, the. entrepreneur side of the entertainment. industry. And it's for a number of. reasons, okay? First of all, being an artist, this is going to like. next year is going to be 20 years. of me being an artist. That's amazing, and it's and it's cool, but it doesn't have to be everything I. do for the rest of my life. Mhm. I've been so blessed to be able to do. music. Literally, if you think about my. job, I write songs, then I sing songs.

And I go around the world, and I travel, and I. try to make people happy when I'm. performing my my music. But that doesn't. mean I don't have other interests. It. doesn't mean that I'm like for example, I love restaurants and bars. I love. them. Anytime I go to a. a different city, first thing I do, either before or after my show, like where can we go? Where do the. locals go and eat? What's the local. cuisine here? What's Where Where should. I go and sample this city so that I can. get to say I went to Milan, and I knew. what that felt like. Yeah. So, then I.

was like, my dream was always like, I. want my own restaurant. I want my own. bar. So, then I did that, you know, we. set up an Indian restaurant called Nama. and a bar called Switch. And that was. fun cuz it allowed me to use a different. side of my brain space and all of a. sudden now I'm making entrepreneurial. decisions which I never really got to do. through music because it's a different. field. So, I like So, you know, and we. have the yoga studio that you know my. wife Tara owns and runs. So, all of. these things keep life interesting for.

me and I think that's the thing. I want. to do as much as I can. and enjoy it and and see where I can. take it, but it doesn't mean you try to. do everything because you don't want to. be a jack of, you know, I'm jack of all. trades master of none. It's just what fills me. And and so. that, you know, I think that the. recently these been the entrepreneurial. stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome. What has been like You spoke about. earlier like breaking that stereotype of. it's not only, you know, Asian families. want their kids to like, you know, be.

taken care of and do well. In the music industry, walk me through. what that was like because I think even. as a British Indian and and an Asian. South Asian person, I don't think we. necessarily know what it was like. because I think when you grow up in. England, especially in London and around. the I mean, to be honest, all across. England, Indian culture is very. accessible. Yeah, of course. It's normalized. It's everywhere. Yeah. And then coming to the US, I don't. believe when you did that it was like. that as far as I know and what did you.

feel you were working with? What were. you excited about? What did you come up. against that you were trying to make. sense of? Because I think there's a lot. of people even right now, I think. everyone in different cultures, different traditions, different. trajectories has to face some form of. resistance, some form of stereotypes, some form of opposition and I've always. appreciated your way of Mhm. navigating. these things because I don't think you. look at it as like, oh my god, everyone's against me. I don't think you. lived life that way. Walk walk us. through what's walk us through your. mind. Yeah, of course, man. So, I guess.

we should really just take it right back. to the beginning, right? So, to answer. that question, you know, I'm I'm there. I'm a student. I'm a medical student. Um. I'm obsessed with hip-hop still. I'm obsessed with music. My love for. hip-hop had also like then gone over. into R&B as well cuz they were sort of. hand in hand by then. Um. The good times. Yeah, the good times. I just saw Usher live in Vegas. Oh, did you? Yeah. Oh, man. It It's You. know, it's. Again, oh my god, bro, there's so much. that we can talk about about these. things because you say that and he took.

you back to a He literally transported. you back to a period of your life. Yeah. 16 16 And what do we What were the. stresses when we were 16? Nothing. Passing our exams. Get doing well in our. GCSEs. Everything else was childhood. It. was It was big dreams. It was You're. fearless. You can take on the world. You. want to do anything and everything and. life is just good. You had music was. great then. Just, you know, vibes were. there, right? And. And that's what I was experiencing. I. was I was listening to, you know, all of.

that same kind of stuff. Usher and and, you know, and Jagged Edge and. Blackstreet and all that stuff. And. And I used to think to myself. every time we went out and we'd go out. clubbing with my friends and stuff. It. would always be especially in London as. you know this quite a heavy. Indian demographic. Well, I should I. should say just like a you know, a an. Asian demographic. What we call Asian in. England, they call South Asian here. Yeah. Tons of us in all these clubs. We. go to concerts.

I'd go and see Fugees in concert. I'd go. and see, you know, Das EFX. I'd go and. see Lords of the Underground. All of. these people still a bunch of. of Asians there. And at that time I had. started writing and, you know, I had a. friend of mine who's a DJ and we used to. make these mixtapes, me and my cousin. And we used to make mixtapes just for. our own fun. And then our friends would. be like, "Actually, that's pretty sick. Like, can you make me a copy?" Fine, we. gave him a copy. Make And all of a sudden, it was kind of. spreading around school. And then that. chubby, nerdy Indian kid,

you know, became cool as all of a sudden. in school. And that that felt nice. But. that was just in school. It wasn't. happening on a major level anywhere. Mhm. There was no Asian mainstream. artist on stage that we could go and. watch, who would sing and or rap. the music that we love. So, we would go there and I'm like I'd. be at an Usher concert. I'm watching him. and I'm watching tons of Asians scream.

for Usher. And I'm I'm there. I'm in the. mosh pit. But I'm going, "Why isn't. one of us up there? We clearly love this. music. If we can listen to this music. and we can buy this music, why can't we. make this music? Why can't we be the one. up there on stage?". And I think when that click switched for. me, that changed everything. Because again, talking about how I just thought nothing. was impossible, I said, "Well, I'm going to do that.

Why can't I? How Okay, how do I do that? All right, I'll enter talent competitions.". So, I did. And I'm simultaneously studying. But then I'll be listening to Choice FM. At the time, it was Choice FM. I loved Choice FM. Back in the Yeah. Right? 107.1 or something like that? Uh. it's something like that, right? 96.9, I. think it was. Yeah, yeah. 96.9. I think it was that. I think it. was one of those ones, those, yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, anyway, I'll be listening to Choice FM. And there was this talent competition. And it was called Commander B's Night.

Flight. Okay? It was around about midnight. And all. you have to do, you have to pick up the. phone, spit your best verse, or sing. At the. time, I was just a rapper, right? I was. obsessed with hip-hop. So, I said, "All right. What have I got. to lose?" Picked up the phone, dropped a little rhyme. You either get flushed, you got the. toilet flush sound, or you get passed on. to the next round. I got through. Eventually, they chose the top 100 in. the country, and then that 100 was put down to was.

cut down to the final 20. Then the final 20 had to perform live in. Brixton Academy, okay? That was my first time on stage. ever. And when I looked around, Jay, I'm. not lying to you. I was the only only. non-black, non-white person in that. room. And I didn't think about it at the time. because you're not going you're not. you're not looking at it like that. You. just got the mic in your hand and you've. got an opportunity and you're going, "This is amazing. How did I even get.

here? This is so fun." It was fun. But now looking back, I was like, "I was. the only Asian kid.". And it didn't scare me. And so therefore, you know, I just did. what I loved and I did it without fear, and I ended up coming third in the whole. competition. And that's what gave me the confidence. to know that I can I think I can take. this somewhere. How did you have that. courage and guts at that age? And I. guess it's part of that extreme focus. mentality, but like I feel like today I. have so many people in my life that I.

know that are scared of posting on. TikTok or posting on Instagram or. putting out like for you to like drop. that verse on a phone call, you know. other people are going to hear it. Other. people are going to find out about it. When you're on stage, of course you're. laid bare in front of all the audience. I think so many people today get in. their heads and they're like, "Well, I. can't post that. I look stupid." or "I. can't do that. I'm not good enough." and. even people who are really talented stop. themselves from putting things out there. because they're scared of what their. friends will say. I remember when I. posted my first video, it was the people.

closest to me that criticized it or. ridiculed it. It wasn't the It wasn't. the audience. The audience actually. responded fairly well for day one, but. it was the people around me that said, "Jay, you talk too fast." Uh "Jay, that. point didn't make sense." "Jay, your. editing's not as good as it should be.". Like, that was coming from people I. knew, whereas the comments were like, "Oh, I love this. I just shared this. with a friend." And so, I feel so many. people have that block. What was it for. you that gave you that courage to say, "This is fun. I love the idea of this is. fun. I'm doing what I love, and I. actually don't care." How How did you.

have that then? I didn't care. And you're right. You know the reason. why I didn't care back then? Because in. order to find out somebody's opinion, they had to actually be in front of you. and talk to you about it in person. Yeah. Right? Now, we live in a day and. age where we've got connection with. every single human being on the planet. Mhm. We're not built like that, bro. We're our brains are not built to have. that many connections with that many. people. We're just not built like that. That's why we get anxiety. That's why we. get Because we know that I post this, it's going to go out to the world. And.

then, 99.9% of the people who react are people. I don't know. And I have to take their. criticism on board, but we weren't built. to be able to deal with that. We're just. not designed to be able to deal with. that much. Mhm. So, therefore, of course it. overwhelms us. Of course it gives us. anxiety. Of course we get depressed. because user Z Z1599. said this about me. But, we don't know. that person. So, when I was a kid, I just did what I did because I didn't.

have the opinions of too many people. around me. And even if I did, like you. said, it's And that's another That's. another great point. Often the people. who are around you may might not have. the courage to take a step out of the. comfort zone like you did or I did. So, therefore, they're just like, "Oh, no, bro." Or maybe it's love. Maybe they're. just like, "I don't want you to be sad. if someone says something about you. I. don't want you to be hurt if it doesn't. work out.". Mhm. I just loved it. Mhm. That's the only. That's the only truth of it all is when.

I tell you that it was an obsession, Jay. I was obsessed. with. hip-hop and and R&B, but like not just. the culture, the technique, okay? So, if I was to. really break it down, obsessed with the. fast rappers of that time. That's what. it was. I was obsessed with Big L. I was. obsessed with Chip Fu from. Fu-Schnickens. I was obsessed with Jay-Z. with Original Flavor. And the way that. they would rhyme, it was very very fast,

and that to me was just so cool at the. age of 14. How are you rapping that. fast? So, I would emulate it, and I. would try to do what they were doing. I. was like, "Damn, how did they do that?". So, it became like this nerdy obsession. And then when it came to singers, it was. vocalists. How are you singing like. that? How are you doing those runs? How. are you doing those riffs? So, I would. study them. I would study Boyz II Men. I. would study all these guys and copy. their riffs and copy and that's how I. sort of learned how to rap and how to. sing by literally just admiring these. people who had such a great skill set.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, therefore, when I. learned how to do it for myself, of. course I wanted to just go and have a go. at it. Yeah. So, why not go up there and have a. go? And and it wasn't because the end. goal was going to be a record deal. I. didn't know that. I wasn't thinking that. far ahead. The end goal was I love doing. this. If you love football, you want to. kick a football around. You don't want. to just do it in your back garden. If. you get a chance to play on a big pitch, are you not going to go? Yeah. Right? I. love that. It the simplicity of the. answer is beautiful because I do think. that it is love that carries you. through, and I think today.

it's almost the opposite. It's the. inverse, right? So, at that time, we. didn't have a lot of role models or. people that looked like you or people. like you that had made it. And I don't. just mean that by. race and gender and back. I just mean in. general, in life, fame and success and. careers like that were reserved for a. few. There were only a finite number of. TV channels, finite number of music. artists, finite number of actors, all. very mysterious and unreachable. Mhm. And you never knew how they got. there. Mhm. Today we live in the.

opposite where it's like all your. friends are influencers, everyone has a. hundred. Yeah, yeah, everyone's doing Everyone's doing. something interesting. You know someone. in your family or network who's figured. something out. Like, people are running. businesses, there's entrepreneurs here, there's this and that, someone has a. podcast, whatever. Mhm. So, now it's almost the inverse, where. it's like, now you see it happening so. much that now you think. it has to work out that way. So, that. time you just said, "I never believe I. never even thought about record deal.". Now, when you start making music, all. you think about is a record deal,

because it does feel within reach, or it. does feel like someone else did it. And. I fully agree with you. When I put out. my first video, all I thought was, "I love sharing this. wisdom. I'm tired of just sharing it in. small rooms of five people. I think the. wisdom should reach more people, and I'm. just trying to see if it works." But, there wasn't There wasn't a goal or a. strategy or a whole approach like, "One. day it's going to be this, and we're. going to have this, and we're going to. build a media empire." Like, it wasn't. like that. It was just, "I love this,

and I actually don't know what else to. do with this Mhm. apart from trying. share it. I've always believed one thing, right? If I operate from a place of panic, desperation, just looking around, competition, it won't work. It doesn't work for me, because. it's not true. It's not organic, it's. not real, there is no actual substance. in that product. It's hollow. It's fake, and people can see it. And if. And I really believe in that. I I It's. It sounds airy-fairy, but I believe in.

it. I know for a fact I have made songs. just chasing hits. Just like, "Oh, that. song worked." I went so far down that. road, bro, of trying to chase big pop. hits. I lost myself. I lost I didn't. even even when I was behind the mic. singing it, there was no smile on my. face, because I knew you were writing. songs for this climate, and you got this. guy talking in your ear. Mhm, you need. to do a song like this, because. so-and-so had a number big Oh, we'll get. the producer who did that. Oh, we'll. write this write with the songwriter who.

did that. I'm like, but. I didn't even like that music. Yeah, but. that's all that's working right now. So, you got to do it. And there was no love in it. And guess. what? My fans could tell. They could tell. They're not stupid. They know This ain't. Jay Sean, man. What's he doing? I I see what he's. doing. It's cool. I love him, so I'll. let him do it, but this ain't Jay. This. ain't the Jay that we loved. This ain't. the Jay that we fell in love with. I see. what he's doing. There's a pressure for. him to do it. That's cool. We'll stand. by him, but we'll wait for him to come. back.

He'll find his way back. As I always do. But when it's not from a place of love. and it's not from a place of passion and. it's not real, I feel like there's a. metadata in that. that people can feel. And that's always been the story of my. life. Mhm. That's beautiful. Yeah, no, and. and it's great to have that connection. to your audience, but when you start. obviously like you said, I mean, I I. still remember when Dance with You came. out and we used to. wait for it to be played on Channel U. Mhm. And I'm trying to think of where.

else, but Channel U was my place. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember Channel U. And at the back in the day, this is. again aging. you'd have to wait for the songs you. love to come on to record them on VHS. Yep. So, you'd record it and then you'd. make your own VHS music videos. So, then. I'd have Usher, you, P. Diddy, Eminem, like whatever else it is and you're. collecting all these people and then now. whenever your mates come over, you put. this video in and then you play that. Or. you're playing Channel U in the. background anyway. But it's like I. remember when Dance with You came out.

and for anyone who doesn't know it, if. you if you didn't know Jay before the US. world like go back and see check that. video out because. I still think it's a like it it lands. even today. That's how good that song. is. Mhm. Thank you, man. And and it's like. and I can still bump it in the car and. it's it's awesome, but to me it was such. a moment for the culture because it was. actually good music and it was actually. cool, too. And I think that that's hard. to do as well. I think it's really hard. when you're like trying to do something. fresh and new, and you're trying to own a sound or.

create a sound, but to actually do that. is really challenging. So, when you're. at your best, most creative self, as you. were just describing now, walk us through the more texture of that. recipe of like when you're really. landing in that passion, that love, the. excitement, as you said, like walk us. through that when you're at your peak. creativity, when it's truly authentic, What does that creative process look. like? There's no thought. And that's. what I always tell people, making music. is not a science. There will be people.

who tell you, and listen, fine. Some people have had a very, very. long, successful career by methodically. thinking, "Hm, verse must be X amount of. syllables, and this melody works because. this chord structure works for the last. 10 years, top 10 hits, this is the chord. progression." And. cool. I'm not built that way. That's not how I. make music. Amazing. Hats off to the people who can. write hits like that. That's not how I. make music. I feel. I feel, and I smile, and I jump up and.

down in the studio when that song is. done. And if I'm feeling like that, my. the one thing, the rule I have is after. I've written a song, if I am not so excited, regardless of. what time it is, it could be 4:00 in the. morning, I could have had a 20-hour day, if I'm not excited enough to go behind. that mic, bro, and sing that song right. there, that second, it ain't it. Hm. If I can say, "Uh, I'll wait till. tomorrow," then that means my fans can. go, "Uh, I'll wait till tomorrow to hear.

it." You understand? They have options. And the thing is, I go off of that. excitement. So, when Dance With You. happened, I'd met Rishi Rich, who really, you. know, responsible for. the. just everything from the beginning of. the genesis of my career, our our work. together, he heard something in me. He. knew I rapped, he knew I. I sang. And what I had developed was a style of. blending the two. So,

I would fast rap and sing, but sing it. with a melody. So, because the rapper in. me was so alive, I didn't approach the beat the way that. I would say perhaps if I was just a. singer. So, I actually wrote it as a. rap. So, girl, what if I told you about. the girl with all of the possible. lyrical ways that I could approach you? And so, then I'd write those lyrics. down, but then I'd put a melody. Girl, what if I told you about the girl with. all of the possible lyrical ways that I. could approach you? And it was something. that I don't think many people had heard. before, but it was my style. And had there been like a suit in the. room, like an A&R, he would have gone,

"Hmm, you're way too fast. I don't know. what you're saying. Slow it down. Too. many words. This doesn't work. Who does. this? Have you seen Give me an example. of someone who's had success with a song. like this, with a verse like that?". That's exactly why you should do it. That's exactly why I did it. It's. because it's new, because it was fresh, and because it was. it was me, bro. It's me, you know? So, when that landed on that song, I think. a lot of the the Asian kids.

in England growing up, if you're growing. up in England, you're listening to, you know, probably R&B and hip hop, which is very common for us. At the. time, that was the culture, right? That. was kind of what we were into. And then your mom's watching some Indian. drama. or some Indian Shah Rukh movie. Yeah. So, you got Bollywood. So, you got like. beautiful Hindi melodies going on in the. background. And if you're Punjabi like. me, you're going to weddings and they're. playing bhangra and Punjabi music, and. it's upbeat. Those were all of my musical influences. So, when I was in that room,

it was not foreign or weird or even. contrived for Rishi and I. to have First of all, when Rishi put. that Indian flute, to me, I wasn't like, "Oh, that's. Indian." I was like, "Damn, that's sick. That's a sick sample. That sounds. amazing." over a hip-hop beat, pop R&B chords, it was something brand new. Mhm. But, it was something It was all. the music that we listened to. Mhm. Mhm. in one pot. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't like. It wasn't like we were trying to create. a new genre. We created a new genre by.

accident. Yeah. Because it was just the stuff that. we were into. So, then when we did that, um had written that song originally, kind of left it there. Uh Rishi was. working with Juggy D, um obviously a. Punjabi artist. He heard it. He was. like, "This is sick. Jump on it, bro." Yeah. He did his. thing. Before you knew it, we had a song. that no one had ever heard. And guess. what? The people, the Asian culture at that. time, had all of their favorite music on.

one song. You had Punjabi, you had. hip-hop, and you had R&B, and you had. this whole thing in on in in 3 minutes. of one song. And for the first time. ever, I think, by three at that time, young dudes. Yeah. Cuz if you were like listening to. Punjabi music, they were like uncle. ages. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, like you were listening to like. Exactly. And you were listening to like. Malkit Singh, but he's like 50. All of a. sudden, you got these young girls and. guys who were listening to people who. look like them.

Yeah, yeah. doing this stuff. And that. kind of I think was something that was. brand new, and it it just changed the. game, man. Yeah, no, I I agree with that. Even when. you see that in new artists, like I. remember Yeah, the first time I ever. heard a Drake song. Right. Right, like early mixtapes, like. Mhm. You were like, "Who is this guy who. can sing and rap?". And do his own thing. Now, I know that. today, like, you know, Drake's gone on. to just do hit after hit after hit and. all the rest of it. And I think. sometimes he gets a hard time where. people are like, "Oh, yeah, he just. makes go." And I'm like, "Well, if you.

think about it, when he started, he was. probably the only like real rapper that. also did that, like was able to mix the. two. And. I've always I've always loved his music, but to me as well, it was that same. thing where it's like he was putting. together two things that felt natural to. him in his own way. Like, he could sing. really high notes and then put in like a. a rap verse. And go hard on a on a beat. Yeah, exactly. He could do both. Yeah. And it was just exciting It was To. me, it's always been exciting when. people are not. kind of imprisoned and limited by a box.

And it's what you're saying about even. the entrepreneur and the musician in you. and allowing yourself. Like, I think. I think today we've become so much. better at recognizing that people are. multi-hyphenates. Like, you know that. Rihanna can have a music career and be a. fashion icon, right? You know that an. actress can also have an amazing. company. You know that Exactly. Ryan. Reynolds can also sell an alcohol or. whatever it may be. But, you know, there's there's so many different ways.

of doing that. He can own a football. team like. and then you know, but in the beginning. it was like, "No, you're an actor. Just. just be an actor. Honor that. Do that.". And sometimes oh, actually, you do this. role, you're only doing comedies. And. then an actor could be like, "Dude, Yeah. I know I'm good at comedy, but. like give me a drama, man. Like, just. give me a shot. Yeah. Let me show those skills. Right? Yeah. So, so for me, it was always like, "Okay, I'll do music, but like. don't tell me. I can only do these records. I can only. sing these kind of songs. I can only,

you know, sing. I can't bust into a rap randomly. So, I was So, that always confused me. cuz I was like, "Hold on a second. This is my artistic expression. So, surely it should just be Why do Why. aren't I just allowed to do who I am? Cuz otherwise, then it's not. Jay Sean. It's Jay Sean with other. people in his ear. Then it's not just Drake. It's Drake. with other people in his ear. So, I. think the reason why people fall in love. with an artist.

is because that person has something. unique to share with the world. Mhm. Right? You know, like if you're in. a certain mood, you're going to be like, "Man, I don't know, man. I feel like I. put on some Adele right now or. something." Why? Cuz you know what Adele. offers. You know what her music how it. makes you feel. Yeah. Yeah. As opposed. to just a random singer who's got a a. beautiful voice. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, you reminded me of. when Matthew McConaughey came on the. podcast, he talked about how he was.

known as the rom-com guy. So, he was. doing How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days. He. was doing all those types of movies, and. he was amazing at it. It was like Ghosts. of Girlfriends Past, and like he was. that guy. He was like the hot heartthrob. that, you know, that that holds those. movies. And he said he had to take a. 2-year break from making movies to shift. his brand to be able to do movies like. The Lincoln Lawyer, later on Dallas. Buyers Club, which he won the award for. And it's like he literally didn't make.

movies for 2 years, and he was getting. paid like 15 million to do a rom-com. Right. And he said for 2 years he didn't do. anything because that was his brand, and. he wanted to do more serious roles. He. wanted to do roles that he cared about. And and it took him saying no for 2. years, and that's a lot of like, you. know, It is. It's it's it's amazing to think that. people who've made pivots in their. career. have had to kind of have these very like. interesting transition periods. Yeah. What was it like for What's the biggest. difference between the UK and the US. music scene? Because I think you have.

that, you know, you have that as a. unique experience. There's a few of you, right? There's you, and then like more. recently, obviously, like people like Ed. Sheeran, Adele. Like there's there's few. people who've been able to be successful. in both. I'll tell you a funny thing, right? So, obviously, at the time, pre-2009, I was lucky enough to have garnered. myself a worldwide fan base excluding I. thought, excluding America. I just. thought, "Ah, there's no way America. knows my music." And that's because. America has, let's be honest, they have. the cream de la cream of everything. If.

you think of any of the biggest stars, they're usually American, whether. they're Hollywood stars, you know, whatever. all Canadian. Right. Now they're all. from specifically Toronto, right? So. Bieber, Drake, like But at the time, so. when we were in That's why when we were. in London. London is a small island. And so what. happens is sometimes you can get I I I. refer to it as small island syndrome. You can walk around your little place. and feel like the big shot. You know, yeah, man. I'm in Dagenham, bro. People. know me and hear me. Yeah, I'm.

Leicester, bro. People know me here. Boy, hey, though. I got Scotland, man. People know me in Scotland, bro. Okay, cool. That's amazing. And great. And if you can have a career. then you're happy with it, that's great. I always, again, going back to me being. a person who's highly driven. I would always say. take me somewhere where no one knows me. I want to win them over. Take me somewhere. Take me anywhere where nobody knows me. and let me see if I can win them over. And that has always been something.

that's very dear to me, even when it. comes to shows. Any show. Like you could. do a corporate gig, right? And they have. it and it's like people will be like, "Oh, they want you for the show." I'll. be like, "Okay, cool. What's the demographic?". "This is XYZ." I don't I don't then. think, "Okay, I'm just going to sing XYZ. Z song.". I go, "Well, how can I connect with. them? What What am I going to be able to. On what level and then win them over so. that then they they can go, 'You know. what? I didn't actually know Jay Sean. before or even like his music, but I. like the dude. Yeah. I like the guy. I.

connected with him and he was fun on. stage and he was funny and he was. endearing and then he actually rocked. the crowd. And now all of a sudden you. won them over.'" Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when it came to America, I took that. same approach. I was I remember. distinctly being at passport control. And I was going to go and sign with Cash. Money. That's why I was going over. there. And it was a big day for me and I was. super excited. I was like, "Man, I can't. believe this, man. I'm about to get a. record deal in America.". But I went knowing.

that if I don't succeed, at least I have everything else that. I've worked hard for. And if I do. succeed, man, that's only a bonus now. That's going to only be even better. But I'm excited. I'm bigged up, right? Of course, man. Lil Wayne, man. It's like It's like Oh. my gosh, yeah. Big deal. Young Money. Cash Money Records, it's like, yeah. Right. So then, I'm there at passport. control. And uh the guy goes, you know how they. are in America sometimes they're like, "What is the purpose of your visit?".

Oh gosh, I still get it every time. You. get nervous, isn't it? I get so nervous, man. I've had so many years of that. And he's like, "What is the purpose of. your visit to the United States?" I was. like, "So, here's me now, a little. slightly cocky." I go, "Be honest with you, mate. I'm about to. sign a big record deal.". And he goes, "Yeah?" He goes, "What's. your name?" And I go, "Jay Sean." And he goes, "I haven't. heard of you." So, now I know I've got. work to do. Right on my entry to this. country, the good lord has gone, "Relax, mate.

Calm your ego. There's work to be done.". And it was through that one guy, that. immigration officer, who looked me dead. in the eye and said, "So what? I haven't heard of you." And I. thought, "All right, let's do this. Let's work. Let's work." It's always the. immigration officers that don't. recognize anyone, man. I get the same. thing every time. best. It's the best. that, and bro, it you it. it humbled me in a split second. And I'm. not saying I had a big head, either. But. if I was to be cocky about my venture in.

the United States, I learned right there. and then, bro, prove yourself again. And. that's what I had to do from scratch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's such a great. mindset to have because you could have. had that interaction and gone, "Well, you should know me, right?" You You. could do that. Or you will know me. Yeah, you will know me. Yeah, cocky, right? Yeah, you will know. Yeah. And and it's just it's so interesting. because I feel like that is just never a. satisfying way to live. That's what I've. discovered. Like the the idea of. thinking you're at the top of the. mountain or that you're doing things.

it's the same thing as you said earlier. like when you're making music from love, passion, and and excitement. I feel like. if you're doing something because of. revenge, because of proving someone. wrong, because of I'll show you, because. I'll see you at the top. Like when you. do things with that energy even if and. when you make it, it never fulfills you. because that person may not have the. reaction you want them to have. And. they're like yeah, I don't listen to. your music. Or I don't like your music. Or when you go up to that guy and go.

oh wait, did you hear me now? I'm number. one Billboard and they go yeah, my. girlfriend didn't like it. Exactly. Yeah, it still doesn't it won't fill. you, bro. And it's a very very good. point and I think that. it's. it's such an important point because for. me 20 years of work. Okay, what have I. learned? What are my lessons? I've been around the world. We were calculating this. Some I've come. up to a million miles just on one. airline.

Wow. Just on one airline. Wow. So I've definitely done way more. Must. have been around the world 50 times at. least. 50? of mileage, yeah. Easily. That means. I have had experiences. after experience after experience after. experience after experience. Some amazing, some horrible. Some that can make you feel like you're. on top of the world and some that can. pull you into a dark place. and you don't even want to talk to. anyone, depressed, crying. So where's that safe place? Where's the.

place where you're just okay, man? I'm. all right with this. I'm in this industry and it can either. make me or break me or it can do neither. or I can just have a great time while. I'm here. Make people happy. Do that I love. Take care of my family. Earn a good. living. And it all comes down to exactly. what we just said. Why are you doing. this? Mhm. If I was, for the rest of my. career, only driven. to write songs and perform and record to.

beat the big monster that is down, if that was my only incentive, got to. beat down, got to beat down, got to got. to top that, I am setting myself up for failure, A, and definitely a ton of anxiety, a ton of like bad feelings, and and and. feelings that just aren't on a vibe at. all because I'm doing it all for the. wrong reasons. Mhm. If I then go, if I switch my mentality.

and go, man, how lucky. were you, how blessed were you to be. able to have written that beautiful. unicorn of a song that makes so many. people happy, that really did break a. lot of records, and change your life, gave you a life, man. Gave you a life. Put that in your back pocket, Yeah. and be grateful and say thank you. That was wicked. That was amazing. Now, let's go on. and write stuff that you enjoy, that you. love, that perhaps all your fans might. connect to, and but if I was to make the.

metric of my happiness chart positions, comments, likes, followers, I'm setting myself up for failure. because I can't control any of those. things. Mhm. at all. Mhm. The only thing I can. control is the music that I write, the. music that I record, the music I put. into this world, the way I interact with people when I'm. on stage, make them feel. Those are the. things I can control. And so therefore, my happiness, hopefully, will be in a safe place.

You know, because I'm not pinning it, I'm not rooting it in something that is. so out of my control. There's this quote. that I heard that someone said that. you know, at one point I had to stop the. being a hit machine and go back to being. an artist. And and I love that idea, but I feel. every artist goes through this series of. phases. where you start as a pure artist. You. start with pure creativity and pure. passion. Yeah, yeah. And then in the scaling of a business.

Yeah. of having team members or whatever. it is, you become a hit machine and you. kind of try and like you said you try. and like mathematically figure out the. equation. Mhm. You may kind of have some. hits, you may not have some hits, but. you have this and either way whether. you've had hits or whether you haven't. you become unfulfilled. And that's what. happens. So externally, even if this. person is having all the number ones, they're still feeling internally. fulfilled because it doesn't link back. to that pure artistry that they started. Why you started doing it in the. they try go back there. Everyone goes.

back there. Everyone wants to go back. there. Some people take 30 years. Some. people do it in 3 years. I've met people. at both ends of the spectrum who they. made stuff they hated for 30 years. Some. people gave up after 3 years and said, "You know what? I'm going back to doing. what I love.". Right. And it's normal. Like it's normal. for everyone to have that. So So true. It's so wonderful to hear you talk about. it in that way because I think that. we had Rick Rubin here a few months ago. and he was saying the same thing. He was. just like you he was saying the same.

thing you said. He was like, "We're not. music isn't made. formulaically." Like he was like, "You're not trying to think what people. are going to love and so I'm going to. make it." And you know, to to hear that. across artists and musicians, different. genres, different backgrounds. it it speaks to a lot. When was your. darkest time or when was a moment where. you felt like you'd Mhm. you were just. this is not yeah. Um it you know, it's. so true everything you're saying. Artists, we are we exist in one of two. states. We're either you You mess with.

me. I'm best. Or. I suck. Everyone hates me. I'm the worst. I. should quit. I can relate. There's no. in between. The hardest place to be is. I'm all right. I'm an all right I guess I'm an all. right artist. Who Who wants to be I'm an. all right artist? Nobody. It has to go Ah, it's all right, man. What comes? Nobody wants that. So, if you're not killing it, you're. here. You're I suck.

I should quit. Nobody likes me. People. aren't listening to my music, they're. listening to that person's music. So, of course. I've had those moments. Not only have I. had them epically in one particular. point in my life. My whole journey, man, has been like It's been like the Rocky. story. Mhm. Which is why I'm so obsessed. with Rocky. I love Rocky. Love Rocky, bro. The Sly docs out. I. haven't started watching it. I watched it. It's. Who am I? I'm also obsessed with. Sylvester Stallone. So am I. Dude, that dude, he's He's so.

smart and I watched the. I watched it and I'm not going to ruin. it for you, but I one thing I've always. known for about Sylvester Stallone is. that this guy bet on himself. That's the. story we know. He bet on himself. Didn't. get cast in movies cuz of the way he. looked, the way he spoke. So, what did he do? He wrote roles for. himself. What an amazing What a genius. thing to do. Go, "Yeah, you're not going. to cast me, fine." And he bet on himself. with Rocky. But he didn't win immediately in Rocky. But what what that story.

tells me is Here's a guy Here's a guy, a. bum. Just a dude that no one pays. attention to. But he's He's still a. human being. He He symbolizes your. average Joe. Your average Joe who the world ain't. really looking at. They don't really stop to notice him. But he has a secret dream. He has a little dream inside of him. You. know what I mean? And then when he gets that opportunity, he goes for it cuz he's got A, nothing. to lose, but B, he's all heart. He's all. heart. And he's doing it from a place of love. He doesn't necessarily need that belt.

He just loves A, the game, and B, I. can't believe I got this opportunity, man. I'm going to take this. I'm going. to take it with both my hands. I'm not. going to let go. But then the Rocky saga, the storyline. continues, the rise. and then the fall. And that's why he's. to me he's such a great writer is. because I think he was simultaneously. writing about what was going on in his. life. From nobody to becoming the biggest star. in Hollywood to then maybe getting. caught up in the game, losing your. roots. Oh, now I'm not even speaking the.

same way. I don't walk the same way, talk the same way. I don't write the. same way cuz now I'm a star and people. are looking at me expecting different. things. And my career was like that. When I started off, I just wrote from. the heart, man. I wrote it cuz Jay, Rishi Rich, and Juggy D are coming. through on a song. Who says that? Why are you calling your. own names out on a song? Most songs are. just like, "Hey, girl. So, you from the. last time we" It's a imaginary story. about something. Now that you call it. out.

Yeah, this guy thinks it's okay. on his first ever song to And it's part. of the song. It's not the intro part. It's not like that. Yo, it's Yeah, it's. not it's not that part. It's Yeah. It's the verse. Yeah. It's. the verse. Why? Young cockiness, fresh, fun, not even thinking about it, not. studying other songs, going, "Well, what. do the What kind of lyrics do they. write? What do the big hits write?". Did it and it connected and it felt. right and it worked. First album, I. mean, you you're familiar with Me. Against Myself.

I remember buying Me Against Myself on. CD cuz I was so excited to look at the. art. Yeah. And I loved the idea cuz on the. last track you had to wait like a few. minutes and fast forward it to wait for. like bonus material. I love those kind. of like hidden things. Like, yeah, massive. Yeah. Yeah, and. Yeah. So, Me Against Myself, why was it even called Me Against. Myself? It was called Me Against myself. because, bro, in all honesty, truth be. told, from the beginning of my career, I have been in this little bubble where.

I have been fighting myself the whole. time. The rapper versus the singer. The R&B guy versus the pop guy. It's always been this duality of who is. actually keeping it real and who's the. one making the money and, you know, up. on the stages and. are they the same person? Cuz the guy who's keeping it real was. the rapper. He was the guy who was like, "Yo, you sold out. You're writing these. fictional songs about hey baby girl.

this, baby girl that." And on the song. Me Against Myself, it's literally the. rapper versus the singer. And. the other. part of this whole thing was. it was me against everyone else in the. music industry. Because at the time when I started, I. didn't really know it know it and I, you. know, but now we look back, I was. really out there by myself as the only. Asian kid in a sea of I'm talking like. with the mainstream artists now. And 20.

years ago, even more so. 20 years ago, and it was only until I sort of really. started coming across. situations where I realized I am the the. odd one out. I am the fish out of water. here. I'm the one that doesn't look like. anybody else. It was very different. And. you know, for me, I felt like. at that point, the only thing that was. going to get me through all of this was. by staying true to who I am. Right? So, there's this. you know, song I wrote called Good.

Enough. So, what I would do is I would, instead. of screaming about it on interviews and. ranting on about it and complaining. about how difficult it is trying to. break through and not having the same. opportunities as other artists, I used. to disguise my songs, my love songs. I. used to dis- I used to write open. letters to the music industry and. disguise them as love songs. So, there's a song on my first album, "Me Against Myself", um called "Good. Enough". And in the lyrics, you think he's.

talking about a a girl who's not the. same race as her. So, like he's dating a. girl from a different race, but it's. actually a letter, open letter to the. music industry. And it says it says, "I've got my mother's skin. I've got my. father's eyes. That's something that I can't deny and. that's nothing that I want to hide. And. even though my roots come from the other. side, they told me that they won't mind cuz I. heard that love is blind." And then it. says, "How do I change a million minds. in this lifetime? What is it I have to. do? If I erase my history, what defines.

me? If I had to change my truth, would I be. good enough for you?". And really it was about. me talking to the music industry. Saying like, "I'm just like you. Why are. you giving me a harder time, man? Listen. to my music. Tell me if it fits in where it should. fit in." So, when all that stuff stuff. started to happen, I went in a bit of a. It was hard for me. I went in a like a. little bit of a. a dark place cuz I was like, "This ain't. This was meant to be fun. This was meant. to be my dream." And and now like I'm.

not getting the same opportunities and. and I didn't know what to do about that. You know, when my first album, when they. tried to take me on to the second album. at Virgin, I realized that these people don't. understand me. They don't understand my vision, my art. I'mma go. step out. So, any money that I had. earned off that first album and touring, I invested in myself like Sylvester like. Sylvester Stallone. Yeah. And that's. where I did the "My Own Way" album, of. course, why it's called "My Own Way". On. that album,

I remember leaving Virgin and at the. time being told, "Don't worry. You're going to get another record deal. You know, you've got all this success. You got these chart hits. Of course you're going to get signed. immediately." I was like, yeah, okay, good. I'll get signed to a label that. understands me. Didn't happen. Didn't happen. And now I'm like, well, I had like 4. years in the game, and that's it? Maybe I should have stayed with Virgin. Who else Who else gets a major record. deal and then walks away from it? And.

then I had to talk to my parents, tell them the situation. I've just given. up a chance at being a doctor. I've had one album out, toured the world a little bit. Didn't really smash it though, did I? Like. for the Indians around the world, yes, I. smashed it. Of course, they were like, first guy, our guy. But in terms of mainstream, they were kind of like, oh yeah, that. guy had a couple of songs. So, I remember being lost, really lost.

And uh. I pretended actually to my parents that. I was off to the studio working on a new. album. And there were times where I. would get in my car, and I'd just drive around, park up. somewhere, and literally sit down in my car and go. and cry. On your own? On my own. And just cry cuz I was so lost and so. scared. Here's a guy who had all the big dreams. in the world, a guy who worked so hard. at school.

Two degrees. I had to just really just sit there and. think about. there has to be a reason. There has to. be a reason that. this gift was given to me, that this. blessing was given to me to be able to. try to fly the flag for us. What do I. do? I can't just end here. Amazingly, as the universe would have. it, about 2 weeks later, there was this. event where I was in doing like a meet. and greet, and this kid comes up to me. And uh he's about 16, 17 at the time, hands me a CD,

and he goes, "Hey, man, I'm such a big fan. I make music. Please. listen to it if you can. My contact. details are on there." I said, "Yeah, cool, man." Now look, when this happens, as you know, like sometimes we're like, "Yeah, bro, cool." But sometimes you get. 100 CDs, you don't get to listen to them. all. On the way home, put it in the car, listening to it. I'm like, like this beat is insane. And I was like, holy, I'm calling this.

guy straight away. I picked him up, picked up the phone, I. was like, "Where do you live? Where's. your studio?" He's like, "Jason?" I was. like, "Yeah." He's like, "Bro, come on.". I was like, "No.". I'm coming over now to your studio. And. he had a studio in his garden shed in. Slough. He had a studio in his garden shed in. Slough, and this is a fan of mine. And I. said, "We're going to work." He's like, "Dude, come on." I was like, "I'm serious." And. it was just me and him.

And on that day, I wrote "Right It". with this kid who had just given me a. demo CD. That's amazing. a dream. He had a lofty dream. He didn't. know that I was also in a place in my. life where I needed I needed something. He needed something and I needed. something. We both wanted to win. And that song was just sent. Bro, and it changed everything. That. song, obviously his as you know, I mean, that that was about lives on and. on. That that song has had so many lives.

and so many edits and so many like It's. insane. It's crazy, yeah. But I and without have. getting too heavy on the spiritual. about it, I think it's because there is. something special about that song. I think it's because that song, its very. genesis came from a place of where I was. at my lowest and needed so badly to be. plucked out of this dark place. And I. needed something. from up here, man. I needed something to. lift me up. And that song not only just. did that for me, it's kind of like a.

sacred song for me, You know, and it. gave this kid a life. It gave him an entire career. One song. And then. fast forward 12 years later, it goes and. gives another guy a life. Some random. dude in Lithuania who's just like done a. remix and put it on YouTube and then it. goes on TikTok. This guy's now touring. the world. Do you know what I mean? And it also. like. you know, did pretty good for me during.

the pandemic. A little nice little pocket change for. me, too. And it was like, you know, it's special. So, there you go. That was my rocky. story, right? Down, boom, down here in. the dumps. Back up. Now ride it out. Jay. Sean version two's out. Shaved head, right? The spikes are gone, the shaved. head. And all of a sudden, man, I got. another shot at it. The reason why I love hearing it is. because I remember like I remember. trying to figure out what had happened. between the two albums, too. And I. remember like as as your fans were.

following you, it was like. I can't remember. It was like Was it. Relentless or Reckless? I can't. remember. Relentless, right? It was. Relentless and it was like Yeah, you. were seeing that shift and you never. know what's going on on the other side. The best part about that story, though, is the randomness and allowing the. randomness. Because I think so often as. you become more successful, you become. more closed. And you become more Oh, you're just a little kid. What do you. have? And that ego We've we've talked. about ego a few times in this.

conversation. It just shows me again and. again and again the thing that gets in. all of our ways is our ego. Ego stops. you from being creative cuz you're. scared of what your friends will think. That's ego. Ego stops you when you start. thinking you're the man getting into. America. And if you would have acted in. that way back at that guy, but you you. were like, "No, no, no, I'm going to get. better.". I'm I need more. I need to get more people to know my. work. And then ego again could have. stopped you from going, "Ah, he's a. little kid I don't think. Like, what. does he know? I'm just one like he's. just everyone gives me CDs." And it's so.

interesting just how. we have to work against our ego. constantly. And me against myself in and. of itself is actually us against our ego. on a daily basis. That's the real. battle. The real battle is us against. our ego. It really is. It's It's so true, man. I. I think I think all of that ties in. also, bro, to just keeping not just. keeping your eyes open, right? But. keeping your mind open. And the thing is. I always look at it like this, man. Um. Uh self-awareness is obviously something.

that you of course talk about a lot. And. some people go their whole life, man. But not being self-aware. Okay, their. whole life. I think very fortunately for. myself, I I got it quite early on once I. started this career. I kind of. understood again just like standing out. as the only brown dude. I was very. self-aware. I understood also. understanding that when I came across. those problems and those obstacles, I realized very quickly that my sense of. humor was able to get me out of them. rather than it letting it destroy me. So.

rather than letting me go when someone. says something dumb or something stupid. or insensitive or culturally. inappropriate, instead of getting mad. and causing an argument, I would use wit. and intelligence to be able to get. myself out of it. Then I realized what. kind of person I was in this industry. that I'm in. And this industry, you know, as you. know, it can be It can be very very. fake. It can be very It's hard to find. connections with certain people. But if. you know who you are in that space, I. think you're going to just you'll be. okay through the highs and through the.

lows. Do you know what I mean? But yeah, I love what you I love that. you recognize that because it's it's. very true. If I wasn't open to the. randomness and I wasn't open to the. signs, You just miss out on And And I. think about that, right? Like I think we. all have to reflect on our own life and. go, "Where do we miss out on that. randomness?" Because we've started to. think that things have to be formulaic. or equations or perfectly fitting or. coming from the right source. Like.

sometimes, you know, right? Like we we. always think, "Oh, yeah, that business. person will tell me the right thing.". That individual. And it's like, "Well, no, they could be some random person in. your family or your friends group who. says one thing to you that actually. shoots you off in an amazing direction. There was I I I'm going to give a shout. Me and Jeremy had a call like this. recently. So, Jeremy said to me, he goes. to me. He said to me I just called I called him. randomly. I was on a drive and I hadn't. caught up with him while for a while. So, I called up Jeremy.

And we start having this phone call and. I had no agenda. There was no plan. It. was just catching up with your mate. And he said to me randomly, he goes, "Jay, I can't wait till you start a. school." And I was like. "Dude, what are you talking about?". And I was like, "First of all, Jeremy, I. don't have kids. So, I don't even know. what school feels like for kids. Second. of all, I feel really unqualified to. start a school. I think it's actually. very uh there needs to be a lot of. research, there needs to be a lot of. understanding. Like dealing with kids'.

minds should be dealt with extremely uh. delicately and thoughtfully. I don't. think everyone should start schools. Thirdly, like sure, it's a nice idea, but like it's so like I I wouldn't I've. never even thought of that as even a. concept in my life. But I answered all. of that and then immediately something. came to my mind. I'd love to go and. study the best schools on the planet. And I was like, "I would love to. actually go and understand." Not because. I want to start a school. But because I. would love to understand the human mind.

and what we're messing up that's. creating kids who cause issues in the. world world versus kids that get it. right. Now, there's lots of studies and. research, but I would actually love to. go and sit with parents and teachers. And I I came back to my team the next. day. I was like, "Guys, I I to go and do. this. And we have to document it and we. have to go because not because I think. there's content in it, not because I. don't even know what I'd do with it. I. just know that I would be fascinated. Yeah. if over the next 5 years I could. understand more deeply. Right. how to build more compassionate. children. Not because I want to start a.

school, Right. I think I should. wasn't even in your head until this. random conversation. conversation that my mate just said I. could be like, "What does Jeremy know?". Right. Right. I've got a content, you know, I've got. stuff going on. You know, he's nice. He thinks he wants. me to start a school, but like Yeah. But really it sparked like genuinely I. can't tell you how much that idea is. like. captivated me. Right. Because I'm like, "Yeah, you know. I'd love to know. Mhm. how we build compassionate, empowered, Mhm. confident children who change the.

world. I would love to understand that. on a very deep, intimate, and personal. level." And so I started researching. like, "Where are the best schools in the. world? And like what are the schools. that make the most creative kids? What. are the schools that make the most this. kids?" So I'm like, "Oh, I've got to go. to the school in Spain. I've got to go. to the school." And I was like, Right. Amazing. Travel now feels alive again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like I've got to jump on a. plane to do some work. It's like And. it's for a purpose and it's fun it's. something fun. And I think really what. what you're on to there, bro, is is it's. very easy to like sort of become. complacent as well. Like you go, "This. is what I do. Great. Studio at this.

time. I write a song. Great. Blah blah. blah.". When do you find out if we've got if. we're lucky enough to have another 40, 50 years on this earth, right? What's. going to light us up that whole journey? What's And I think about that. constantly. If I've already done this much, I've been lucky enough, blessed enough. to have 20 years in the music industry, what am I going to do for the rest of my. life? What's going to light me up? What? Can I just going to retire? Am I just. going to sit there and I've got a lovely. I've got I've got my kids, I've got my.

family, my wife. That's lovely. It's. beautiful, but I'm not like that. I'm I. I need something to fire me up. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Which is. like I said why I did this thing, all of. these different companies that that I. have created. But, the biggest thing now. that really lights me up, Jay, is seeing. what's happening with this new. generation of of Asian artists. I was. about to ask you about It really is. It's crazy, man. I. I am as you probably know haven't done. an album for a long time, okay?

A lot of people are like, "Yo, man, when. are you going to do another album?" And. you know what my answer always was? This is what I said, honestly, this is. what I used to say. Nobody cares about. an album anymore. They just want music. Mhm. Content. If you Let's say your. favorite artist, let's just say Drake, for example. Let's just say you're. waiting for a Drake album. And he's. like, "All right, guys, I'm going to be. back in 3 years. I'm going to just work. really hard on this." In this day and. age that we're in with our attention. spans, ain't no one waiting 3 years, bro. No one's waiting Which is why he. can churn one out a year, clearly, but.

that's Drake. Yeah. Um but people don't. want to wait around. So, I used to just. say, I said, "Forget album. That model. is old. It's an old notion. I'll just keep giving you music. I'll. just keep putting putting it up. It's on. my Spotify. It's on my Apple Music.". And I did that consistently for years. And through doing that, I sort of like, you know, just spend a. lot of time on these streaming. platforms, I started discovering. all this music which to me was.

reminiscent of what me, Rishi, and Juggy. were doing 20 years ago. So, all of a sudden, you had these kids. from India. singing in Punjabi, but they're singing. over like a drill beat. Mhm. And there's like an English vocal on. there from some. random artist. And I was like, "This. fusion stuff is happening again, except. this time it's happening with these. 20-year-old kids who are living in. India, who have basically grown up with. access to the internet. From the moment. they're born, they got this device. So, yeah, of course they're listening to.

Bollywood and they're listening to all. this stuff, but they're also listening. to Travis Scott, and they're listening. to, you know, M&M, Rihanna, whatever it. is. So, that was us 20 years ago. And I, when I tell you something happened. inside me, it just started bubbling. I. was like, I need to get in front of. these kids. I need to soak up their. energy. It's that youthful energy, that. excitement. Cuz they're not jaded. Yeah, yeah. They're not They haven't. even stepped into the industry yet. They're just kids having fun. That's who.

I was 20 years ago. And it lit me up. And I said to Jeremy, and of course it. was the best news he ever heard. I was. like, Jeremy, that's it. Decided, man. He was like, you're you're what? An album. I was like, yep. And we're. going to India. That's where we're doing. it. He's like, great. I've never never. been to India. I was like, oh, this is. going to be fun for you, bro. So, what we did, we went to India this. year. And I recorded three quarters of. my album. in India. with these guys, these immensely. talented kids, whose faces were just.

lit up from music. There was no. journey. They hadn't even been on a. journey yet. There were no obstacles. There was no problems. There were no. highs and lows. It was just love for. music. And this album for me now, bro, I'm so excited about it because again, it came from a place of joy and. excitement. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's so it's so. interesting how like even that with the. going back to your Rocky story example,

there's Rocky V. where he trains Tommy Gunn. Yeah. And it's like that whole feeling. of he gets his enthusiasm back. Mhm. because he's back in there, he's. with a young guy who reminds him of. himself and like again, there's such a. need for us to always go. Mhm. and be with the beginner again and. go to the source again. And we miss out. on that in life because the higher you. get, again, less randomness means you. spend time with the same people, you're. not spending time with the person who's. at the grassroots, who's who's got their.

finger on the pulse. And all of a sudden. again you're disconnected. Yeah, you're disconnected. Yeah, completely disconnected. And that's so right, man. I felt myself. going I felt like through through my. journey and through 20 years, you know. what's really interesting is that it's. very easy to age yourself out the game. Right? It is. And and you know. I think it's funny right I don't know if. you've ever if any of the other artists. who you've had on your podcast have ever. talked about this. Um ageism is a funny thing in the music.

Yeah, I don't think we have. In the. music industry is weird, right? Like if. you're an actor, it's brilliant. You just get to play. older roles. Yeah. And sometimes they become even better. cuz they've been acting for so many. years and now, right? Well, now I feel. like most like the main actors like in. movies are 50 years old. Like that's. like the standard age if you had you. check their ages. Yeah, it's really interesting. So in a. way the more time you spend there, the. more years you put into that craft, will. actually pay off. I mean let's say if I was a doctor right. now, I'll be a probably be a consultant. within a few years. The more years you.

put in, you step up the ladder. And. whereas in music, it's like the more. years you put in, it's like you're. ending you're you're you're going closer. towards the finish line and they're like. come on mate, enough now. Get off stage. No one wants to see a 50-year-old. dancing around, right? And it's a very. weird thing. If again, if I didn't have. my a sense of humor about that, I could. be like who are you to tell me when to. stop working? Who are you to tell me I'm too old to be. on that stage? Who are you to tell me. that I have not done anything great.

since that song or this song? But I do. understand. I do understand. It's kind. of awkward and cringeworthy at some. point if you see some people who aren't. self-aware enough to understand that. bro, maybe you shouldn't be dancing right. now. Go and sit on a stool. Make the song acoustic. And let's just. get that audience. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Being able to. let go of a former identity that worked, yeah. That's right. That's so. interesting. And the thing is.

quite often we're frozen in time. Yeah. I'm frozen in time. Mhm. On those. plaques in my house and in Jeremy's. house, there's a baby face Jason. Yeah. And I look at him and I see that young. boy and I see what he's achieved and I'm. proud of him. But I'm also very aware that maybe I. don't want to keep doing this 10 years. down the line. Who knows? I mean, truth be told, I'm. sure Snoop and all these guys said that. they wouldn't be rapping. I I feel like your favorite artists.

redoing songs that are either nostalgic. Like I think nostalgia is such a big. part of music, right? Of course it is. You listen to music to feel that way. again. Yeah, exactly. For me with Usher, too, I. don't think Usher's made a lot of new. music in recent years. But it's like to. me when he did You Remind Me, obviously, and there was this scene in the You. Remind Me video where the song shuts. off, but he's on that silhouette of that. You know which one I'm talking about, Of. course. the sun's in the background. And. he did that on stage. And for me, I was. just like, that's all I want to see. because to me it's like that is exactly.

where I was at 16. I remember trying to. do the moves and failing. Exactly. And and and and I still fail at. this day. Yeah, why do you think I don't. dance, mate? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it. But it that's the thing and it's like if. Eminem picks up a mic ever, I will be. there. I will just sit and watch. I. mean, I mean, watching Beckham in his. documentary take free kicks, I'd happily. watch David Beckham play football any. day of the week because there's there's. a feeling there that you'll never get. because nostalgia is built that way. Nostalgia will never change. Like if you. had a positive experience watching.

Rocky, I can still watch Rocky cuz me. and my dad used to watch Rocky together. So it will never Rocky will never ever. be old or boring for me because, you. know, I've watched Rocky a million. times, right? Bro, same. I know every word of all of. them. Even Rocky 5, even though they say. it's the bad one, I still love it. Right? But bro, you you bring up such a. good point. It's such a true point. Yeah, which is why I mean if you go to. Vegas, why why all of the biggest acts. are nostalgia acts. But they put you in a place where you.

just feel they transport you back in. time. What can ever transport you back. in time as you as as well as music does? Totally nothing. You know where you were, what you were. wearing, what girl you were dating, you. know all of that stuff. You know when. you listen to a song, you know where you. were and it's it's a beautiful thing. But it's really funny you reminded me of. of something when you said about the the. Rocky thing, right? And you were saying. again just to go to go back to that the. other day when I was watching a docu you. know his documentary then I'm not it's. not going to spoil anything for you. Mhm. There's some of the scenes are in.

his house in LA. You probably been to. his house I think. I haven't. I haven't. I've only met him once and he was. amazing. Dude, I was. Yeah, I've only met him once and he's. amazing but I wasn't at his house. I hope I'm so glad he lived up to what. you wanted him to be. was awesome, yeah. But here's a guy who's been acting for. what 50 years now? 50. 50 years in the. game. And what was his biggest. breakthrough hit? Rocky. Rocky one. Biggest breakthrough hit. But then 50. years of more films. Now if Sylvester. Stallone is walking down Sunset.

Boulevard and me and my mates or whoever. was there and they saw him like "Oh my. god!" Or just any person sees him, what. do you think he hears every day of his. life? Yo, Adrian! Yo, Rocky! Right? That's what we do. Now. he could take that in one of two ways, couldn't he? Yeah. He could either go. "Oh, shut up! I've done like 100 films. Why do you keep going back to Rocky?". Yeah. Or he could go "Yo, Yeah. I get. it. Cuz I love Rocky, too. Yeah. And Rocky.

for me changed my life and I know you. guys love Rocky. Totally. And he took Rocky, his baby. that changed his whole life and instead. of rejecting it and going "You remind me. of the fact that maybe I've never topped. you." Instead of doing that, he's like. "Come here. I'll put a massive statue of. myself as Rocky in my swimming pool, in. my house, and I will have all the Rocky. memorabilia all around my house, and I. will embrace you, and I'll be grateful. for you.".

Yeah. And that I. really love that because I think the. problem as artists is that sometimes we. want to When we do a show, right? People. are waiting, man. You go see Michael. Jackson, it's Michael Jackson. He has. some of the biggest, best songs on. planet Earth, one of the biggest that. ever lived. What are people waiting for? And you want to see him do his dance and. moonwalk. Yeah. And he's probably like, "I'm Michael. Jackson. And that's what you're waiting.

for, Billie Jean?" Oh, great. Yeah. Of course they are. Yeah. Cuz. that's why they fell in love with him, and that's why they fell in love with. Rocky. And there are people who, for me, in America, man, they fell in love with. Don. So, when I do my shows and stuff. like that, whatever it is, even if I've. got new songs, I'm not turning my concert into me. I'm. not turning it into, "Hey guys, I know. that you loads of songs that you guys. want to hear, but I'm actually going to. spend the next 45 minutes singing my. brand new album." I'm not doing it. They. don't care cuz they don't know it. The.

show's for them. Yeah. Right? It's such. a good point, and I love this idea of, you know, every We all and whether it's. age, whether it's. time, whether it's changes in life, there is a part of your identity where. you have to shed, you have to let go. Like, everyone has to do that. And. what's amazing is I actually saw what. you just said you don't do happen. recently. I won't name the artist. I'll. tell you afterwards. I'll tell you. afterwards. Right. So, he comes on. stage, and. we're waiting for this song, right? Waiting, and he's he's the he's the.

first act before the main stage, but. it's still an artist I love. And I'm. waiting for the song. The beat comes on, and we're all there, and yes, we're. like, me and Raddy and our friends that. we went with really excited. And then 10 seconds into the they cut. the beat and he goes, "You think I'm. going to do that here?" He goes, "You. think I'm going to give you the whole. song?" He goes, "I got 30 years of songs. to give you." And then he goes and plays. all these songs that we didn't. recognize. And he actually did that and. it was like I was like, "You just took. away my moment, bro. Like I wanted you. to do that song. Not because I'm.

limiting you, not because I think you. have no other hits. You. You actually are really talented. But that song is so special and iconic. that I need to hear it. And and I felt like 10 seconds of it was. all he gave us and then and then he. never went back to it. And I thought, "Oh, maybe he'll give it 10 seconds, he'll go back." Set finished, didn't get. it, you know. And and that's exactly. that feeling of like it's our own stuff. But you're saying we're dealing with. that. We're all dealing with that. We. all have a trapped identity somewhere. Yeah. All of us have what you're saying.

somewhere. And somehow we're actually. mad at it and we're annoyed by it rather. than welcoming and embracing it. And I think about that. It's been 10. years since I left the monastery. I'm a. very different. externally a very different person. today. I'm married, I have businesses, we have, you know, media, we changed. where we live, like so many things. But. at my heart I'm the same person. I'm a. very I'm different externally. My life. has different things. Of course I've. changed. People change. There's parts of. me that have changed. But I embrace that.

experience. It's a massive part of me. But I found that whether you embrace or. reject people always have an issue with. it because it doesn't make sense to. them. If it doesn't fit into their. version of how they perceive you, it's. complicated and I think for me I've I've. learned to accept that I need to give. myself permission to be who I am today, to be who I was 10 years ago, and who I. will be 10 years from now. And I promise. you it won't be the same. And I need to. give myself permission to allow that.

And I think we when you see like you. said, when you see Sylvester Stallone. give himself permission, I was we had. Arnold Schwarzenegger on the podcast. recently. He's the same. He has He has. the original Terminator outfit in his. place. He has Alien. He has like He has. everything. And he loves it. Like he. really loves it. And I love him for it. because I'm like, "Yeah, bro. You do you. do Yeah, you should of course." Like. crushed it. And you're not trying He's. not trying to be the Terminator anymore. He's not trying to be But he loves it. He loves doing We one uh my social media.

manager asked him a question on the way. out and they said, "Do you have any last. words?" And he like, "I'll be back." And. we're like, I'm like, he loves it. And I love And I. love it. And Right. He said, "Give them. what they want.". Yeah, and I love him for it. And he's. not He's not disingenuous. He's not. inauthentic. He's not stuck in the past. He's a really Right. He was great to. chat to. And so, yeah, man. All these. people we're talking about. But Jay, I. could talk to you for hours. I know. I think we have been. Yeah, we. have been. Uh I could genuinely talk to. you for hours. And I love this. And I. think we've What I love about this. conversation genuinely is I feel like.

we've drawn like You You pulled out. Rocky. Yeah. And I think because we have. that, we we've drawn this really nice. arc and narrative for people. And I hope. everyone who's listening and watching. this, I really hope that you find your. own Rocky journey. Like genuinely. In. your own way. As you've seen mirrored in. your life that you've shared so. wonderfully today. Uh but Jay, we end. every episode with a final five or the. fast five. Jay, Sean, these are your. fast five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever. heard or received? Um spend so much time. on self-improvement that you have no.

time to criticize others. Love it. That. is great advice. And no one's ever said. it on the show. Uh second question, what. is the worst advice you've ever heard or. received? It sounds so stupid, but it's. like when you get the the big money, um. nobody told me how to spend it or invest. it. It's a great point. Right? And nobody told me. any about that. Go buy some houses. instead of like, you know, wasting on. stuff like that. So, I wish I actually. got some some advice on on that. How to. manage money. Yeah, that's good. That's good. I hope. that I hope all the Yeah, I hope.

everyone who's coming into new money is. hearing that. Question number three, what has been the gift of parenting that. you didn't expect? Cuz I know you're a. great dad and That is no longer the. world is no longer about me. My job is. no longer about me. My life is no longer. about me. It's all about It's all for my. kids. All of this now is for my kids. And it's the most beautiful thing is. there's nothing more that grounding. than, you know, than when you can be a. pop star and famous around the world but.

you come home and you're just daddy. And. it really is the cutest. Yeah. Question number four, what is the thing. that surprised you most about the music. industry in 20 years? How much how much. of a change technology would have on it. It's literally. flipped it on its head. It is a totally. different animal. There's 120,000. new songs that come out every day now. Every day? Every day 120,000. new songs come out. So you imagine. trying to put get yours is just a needle. in a haystack. And so many people can be.

independent. You could do whatever you. want. Don't need that big record deal. anymore. Although I do have a record. company that I've started. for South Asian talent. That That's my. way of giving back. I'm so excited about. that, by the way. And that's what I want. to use all of my 20 years for, bro. All. of my experience is to now pass it on to. the next generation. So I have. experienced it. I know all about it now. So now it's my turn to be able to help. other people through it. I love that you're doing that as well. because I think there's there's such a. need for that support. I I was probably.

the two. you know, I was the guy watching jump. off but too scared to go on. Right. Well, that's it, bro. I know you love. rapping. I might have to sign you, mate. No, I think the age thing, bro, I'm like. But but no, that idea of like there's. just I think there's any I'm so happy. that you're doing that. Honestly, when I. heard about that, that was amazing. And. I'm so sad I couldn't come to the event. I was on a plane. I was I was out of. town. Fifth and final question, if you could. create one law that everyone in the. world had to follow, what would it be? The obvious thing for me.

to think that that the world is missing. right now is kindness. Mhm. So, what if there was a law that every. person that you meet. you had to do a kind act. What if there. was a law that you had to do one random. act of kindness a day? And I think that. could go on to to to make the world a. better place. Yeah, that would be beautiful. so. I love it. Even if you didn't want to do it, if you. knew it was a law and you knew you had. to do a random act of kindness for. somebody, that could have a knock-on. effect. Yeah, cuz it would make you do it even. end of the day, like you have to figure.

it out. I love it. Jay Sean, everyone. I'm so grateful, Jay. Thank you so much. for coming on. Thank you, brother. Thank you for having. me. Yeah, no, this was so much fun and. You're right. I knew it would be. I knew. we'd be yapping on for hours. I don't. even know how long. I don't know, yeah. I'll have to ask these guys, but no, that was awesome, man, and I'm so. excited for people to continue to listen. to your new album on Spotify and every. Where do you Where do you like as in. actually, that's a great question. As a. musician, where do you like people to. discover your work now? Well, the. streaming, obviously the streaming. platforms is where it's all at, right? So, everybody knows that whatever they. have a favorite streaming platform,

Apple, whatever, whatever you like, it. will obviously be up on there. But. really also, I love being on TikTok, man. I know you do, yeah. You know, TikTok for me is actually a really. cathartic tool, cuz it allows me to my. my silly goofy sense of humor, I allow. allows me to just be a human being. rather than just an artist. So, yeah, if. you guys want to just follow me on. TikTok, it's just @JaySean and all of. all of the usual stuff. It's very easy. It's just @JaySean everywhere. So. Say thank you to everyone. Brother, thank you. That was so much fun, man. My man. If you love this episode, you'll.

really enjoy my episode with Selena. Gomez on befriending your inner critic. and how to speak to yourself with more. compassion. My fears are only going to. continue to show me what I'm capable of. The more that I face my fears, the more. that I feel I'm gaining strength, I'm. gaining wisdom, and I just want to keep. doing that.