Oscar-Winner Daniel Kaluuya: Why You Should Reject Others' Opinions & Bet On Yourself

I find it when you go on those journeys, there's something about the badness in. it that you have to face in yourself. And it's whether you take the lesson, and if you don't take that lesson, you will meet it again. Oscar-winning actor, writer, director, producer. Please welcome Daniel Kaluuya. Anything. I'm doing now, I've totally been told I. can't do. I've totally been told I can't. act. I was like, "Talk to some people.". And then they were like, "You're not. going to make it.". So why I think I can. Before we jump into this episode, I'd. like to invite you to join this. community to hear more interviews that.

will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I want you to do is. click on the subscribe button. I love. your support. It's incredible to see all. your comments, and we're just getting. started. I can't wait to go on this. journey with you. Thank you so much for. subscribing. It means the world to me. The number one health and wellness. podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The. one, the only, Jay Shetty. I always like starting with this. question because I think I'm intrigued. to see where you take it. Like, what.

would you say is your earliest childhood. memory that defines who you are today? There's one, yeah. There was one. I grew. up quite a fat kid, yeah. And then you used to go scouts, cubs and. scouts. You go into like, I don't know, some random place in the countryside, go. into a camping or something. And then. like there's potholes. You know about. potholes? Where you go in there, boom, boom. So I go and run through this. pothole, run through this pothole, yeah. And then like I'm doing this pothole, boom, going in. And then everyone starts. laughing cuz I'm fat. Everyone was like, "Oh, like Dan's not. going to fit. Dan's not going to fit." I.

got in there. And then halfway through, it gets narrower and narrower. And I. proper didn't fit. And they looked in. Bunch of kids were like, I must have. been. nine, eight. They were like, "He's filled up the whole thing.". They're just laughing, laughing, laughing, laughing, laughing. And then I. was like, "Right, cool. I can't really. go back.". So it was only really And I'm actually. half filled it. So then I was like, "All. right, cool." And I just found a way to. I was just like, I knew how to like. change my body and go I'm going to get. out. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do.

it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do. it. And then I realized they were. laughing and then as I was getting. closer closer to the exit, they just. stopped laughing. They stopped laughing. They stopped. laughing. And then by the end they clapped. And I think after that I was like right. there. I don't know I look back and go I. think it really changed. how I saw everything. My life I go. bro what what is what what do you to me? Like you know what I'm saying? It's like. I kind of felt had the energy of like. just push through. Just do what you're. supposed to do.

Just do what you're supposed to do and. you get to the end. And people that will. say things that will tell you say you're. weird, say you're odd. By the end of it. not that they'll clap. You can make them I don't know it. doesn't matter about them. It just. matters about you getting there. Mhm. You know what I'm saying? And I think a. few years ago before then I really cared. about the clap. I really care like you I'm going to make. you clap. I'm pissed I'm going to make you clap. I. think in that moment I saw my character. I saw what I'm actually about in that.

moment. And yeah. And then they just. respected me. Yeah. That's it. And then. it was what I gained respect. So yeah. Yeah. And you think that that still. applies today? It always. Yeah, man. Like do you know. how many people say you can't do. something? All right. Everything's made up. don't make sense. you been told that you couldn't do? Name it. No like anything I'm doing now. I've told I've been told I can't do. I've been told I couldn't act. I wouldn't be able to make a career out. of it. Connections. I was on Parkway. Like in Camden. There's No connections.

there. Yeah. Well like saying and my mom. was just stressed like if she want to. act. I got to like talk to some people and. then they were like you ain't going to. make it. I said well I think I can. And I was like I'm 15. I think I can, you know. They said no no no no. So it's all that kind of stuff like. you're consistently kind of told that. like. it won't happen. And I just didn't. believe that. So that's why I really. would keep it secret what I was doing on. my dreams and my hopes on my even hopes. like what I see. Like if I can see it,

that means I can do it. So, it's more. that like every everything everything. like you told you can't do. Even like. being a away from race even the class. that I'm from from. Like saying oh, you can't do that. What you talking about? It is nuts. Like I just I've always just. been like Yeah. But then that was very. much the mentality of my school. Like it. was very like All right, cool. You ain't. got money. All right, cool. Let's sell. chocolate bars. All right, cool. Let's. sell crisps. All right, cool. It's just. like you've got to make it work no. matter what. So, I've always come I feel. like I've come from that cloth. Yeah.

Did you find that keeping it secret. was useful? Yeah, cuz it meant that I. was able to fail in private Mhm. and. just grow at my own pace and have it. and and basically what it was I realized. in hindsight in acting and writing all. this kind of stuff. I realized I found. what it meant to me. Mhm. I found what. my definition of it is. I found my. style. I found what I liked. That was So, it was mine. It wasn't like. oh, I got it from here or I got it from.

there. It was now this is what I think. This is how I've got to this. Mhm. So, that's like. why I'm happy I did it. Cuz I felt like. in hindsight I felt I was a bit too. ahead of. people that I was around in terms of. what I was focused on. Mhm. Cuz it's. quite odd if I think about think back. Yeah. I was like yeah, man. I'm going to. do this. Oh. I'm like is that you mean it? Like no. one in my family's doing it. No one no. one's doing it. Yeah. But I just think I can. Do you. know what I'm saying? So, it's like um.

So, I think it's it's that. Yeah. Yeah, where did that belief come from at that. age at 15 to go I can even though no. one's saying it? Like where where did. that inspiration come from? Was it was it from what you were. watching or. Prince. Yeah. I was watching. Wayans brothers. I was watching it. I don't know. Sponge No, SpongeBob was a. bit past my um bedtime. Simpsons maybe? Simpsons, Ed, Edd n. Eddy. Like I was watching like Laugh. Ed, Edd n Eddy. Yeah, I was watching Laugh. Like do you. know what I'm saying? I wasn't really. like. I don't know. I just believed. I don't know. I just kind of was like.

No, I don't believe you. Yeah. I don't. know you. Like I back in the day I was. like like say I don't remember John. Major, yeah? Prime Minister all that. I. was like they said he told you to do. something. I'm like, but I don't know. him. I can't even. How can someone I don't know tell me. what to do? Yeah. Kind of nuts. If I know someone like you know what I. mean? It's like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's why I was. like I just always. You know, I realized I think I just I'm. blessed I have faith. Mhm. And I think I just have faith. And I.

realized I wrote something the other day. and I think the difference between. faith and delusion is God. And I'm not. saying like oh God. It's just like I just have faith. Like I. just had faith. I just. just believed. And I think maybe I saw. my family. doing amazing things. Like not amazing. things in the sense that like. making something work or going on for a. holiday or they just didn't accept. the right outcome than like say someone. said to act all right, cool. You can't. afford that, but we can do this. Mhm. They just pushed on. They didn't They. didn't let the.

environment or the boundaries define. what. they thought was possible in their mind. Mhm. So I think it was that really bit. Yeah, I love that. I love hearing that. your parents were saying yes and. Like it wasn't like no but it was yes. and, right? And so you just keep. like, yo, what like how are you going to. like how are you going to do this? She. would challenge me. Always challenge me. And then I said, all right, this is this. is this. But I realized she was just. like going trying to test me if I really. believed in it. Mhm. And then and then. again like I probably.

needed that. I did need that cuz I. needed to know it for my I was aware of. it. Mhm. So then I was like all right, cool. This is what's going to happen. And then she looked at it and I was. like, okay, I believe you. All right, cool. Let's go. Like this is the way. I know this is the. way. I know I can make it work. So, I. think it was just like. I just put I just believed. I don't know. where it come from. I think it's just a. gift, isn't it? I just I just try and. honor it and try and do good with it. I. don't try and like. I intellectualize it. Do you know what. I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, I get that, man. I get that. That makes sense. And. obviously like I I heard I was watching.

your Hot Ones, which I loved. Yeah. And uh on there you talked about how. like you wrote your first piece when you. were 9 years old. And I was thinking it's amazing now. because with the work that you're doing. now, with the kitchen and like. production and writing, like you're kind. of almost doing this full circle piece. Why was writing where you started? Because I don't think a lot of people. know that. Like, I didn't know that as. well. Like, I've discovered you as an. actor and and loved your work, but like. what was it about writing that drew it. drew you to it at 9 years old? And tell. us about that piece, too. I know I know.

I know um I don't know. I was at school. one time. It's before this play competition, which. is what I won at 9. I was at school one. time, and they said the teacher told me. to write something. And in my. in my heart I knew I could do this sick. I know I could do this sick, and I wrote. something. I thought it was amazing. Yeah. And the. teacher gave me a rubbish grade, and I'm. like, "You're wrong.". I think you're wrong. Like, I really. like this. And then like that that that. competition it was just basically like. it was a playwriting course. They come.

to your school in Camden. Roy Williams, who's a really big play. right now, was a teacher then. And then. like a teacher shamed me and was like, "Oh, like like Daniel, you're messing. about." I was I was mischievous. Like, "You're messing about." I'm like I'm. like I'm like no. I'm like, "I don't. like this one." And then so I was like, "All right, cool." And I was like, "All. right, cool. I'll show you. I'll show. you." Then I wrote this play. It's based. on Kenan & Kel, about these guys that. work in a shop. I love Kenan & And they just had a. friendship. And then like I got to the. next round. It was a couple of us in the. next round. And then I would just write.

And then the those guys, Jonathan Siddle. and Roy, were like. they were I knew I at that time they. knew and they I feel like they knew I. had something cuz I just felt the energy. in them. I was like, "Yeah, I just this. is what I think." Cuz I had to think of. it. I don't know. And then like then I. won it. Then my whole school year came to. Hampstead Theatre to watch it. So my. Arsenal top I got a picture now. I'm. just flexing. And then like. and then yeah, I mean they told me like. keep going, keep going. I'm like, "Bro, I'm going to play out. I'm not going to. write.".

And then I I did a play for a William. Shakespeare play like 121. And then he. told me after it, yeah. He was like, "Yeah, do you know that like the. teachers didn't want to pick you?". They were like, "Don't, he's too bad. Don't, he's too bad." And then Rowe was. like, "I'm definitely going to pick. him." So it's just that was a kind of. like I had that. antagonistic energy in class, but I just. I don't know. I just. I knew how to I knew dialogue. I knew. how people spoke. But I think a lot of. it's to do because I was like in my. family I didn't speak my language.

So then I was like. sit at family events and then I'm like. watching. You know what I mean? I can. see that in hindsight. Like I would observe and I would like. piece and I know how to pick tone and. energy and I feel it cuz I have to. You know what I'm saying? So I think. that's where it came from. And then. I stopped and then I got the picture. back up at 16. So to get back in the game, but during. that time I got into acting and and then. I got into that too, improv, which is. actually writing. on your feet. So then I was.

honing that skill set. So when I got. back to play writing again. it was easy. Er. Tell us about some of. the improv cuz I feel like that's such a. fascinating skill and I love how you. said writing on your feet. Like that's a. that's a cool way of thinking about it. and I feel like improv almost demands so. much from an artist in a way that other. work doesn't. How how would you Is there. Is there like a funny moment of improv. that you did with a group or something a. story that you went through that you're. like, "Oh, I remember that and that was. a moment where I was like, oh, I can. write on my feet. I can actually do.

this.". I I think I I we're was about in class. and then um Evelyn told me and Marcus. they were just like, "You guys are. messing about. We're in the community. class." And then he said, "You're in the. community class then if you're good. enough to get to the YPs.". Young professionals. And then like he. was just like, "Oh, like you guys don't. get it." And then they went on stage and. they just acted and I watched it and I. was like, "Copy. I get it. I understand what you're. doing. I understand." And then after. that point I got it cuz I needed to see. it. Go, "All right, cool. I I I I I get you.

I get you. I get you.". What I love about it is that you just. let it go. You're not holding on. I have. moments that my friends remind me if I. see them go, "Oh, yeah, remember when. you brought out that iron?". Oh, like. you know what I mean? As a prop. But it's I just had this rule is that. once you're in your head you're dead. Yeah, yeah. So you just got And also. it's like It's like what you said, like. improv is yes and. Mhm. So you can't. reject. You know what I'm saying? So. it's just like If someone says something. crazy, you just got to go with it. You. know what I mean? And you go, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah." And then also someone. doesn't know how to do it. I learned how.

to drive it. So today is if you didn't. know how to do it, I'd be like, "Yeah, like why are you nodding like that?". Why are you nodding like And I have to. respond and I cuz I'm agreeing with you. About what? I'm agreeing with you based. on what you said about um What exactly. did I say then? You know what I mean? And then And then. you yeah and then you build You feel me? And then And then like you clock how to. like. Yeah. And that's real dialogue, too, right? Like yeah. Exactly cuz you're listening. You're interrupting and listening. You're not just. But you're then by doing that you're. playing a character that doesn't listen. Mhm. Or listens too closely that they. don't.

They hear and they're not listening. Yeah. They're trying to find And then so. you're building that character through. those interactions and then you're. honing it through the interactions and. then you land. All right, cool. Bang. So it's It's like. So that's how I kind of learned. how to do it. More It's more that. Yeah. Don't know. I don't It's hard to like. describe that. Yeah, yeah. I I don't. know why I'm going down this road but. you mentioned it and I'm I'm listening. so I was like. You said you're an Arsenal fan. Yeah, go. on. I'm a United fan.

You've been an Arsenal fan forever. What's your What's been your favorite. team at Arsenal over the years? Oh, man. I'd have to say like um. my favorite. was Adams, right? Yeah. Keown? Keown, Winterburn, Overmars. When they bought That was. crazy. Parlour? This was like '98. Like, come. on, man. That was like. That was like But that's when I fell in. love. Do you understand? I was like, "These Oh my god." Like. Everyone was just Everyone was just.

firing. So, I just I just I don't know. And. also, it's my local team, innit? So, then it was just like. Say if we won a cup, the area was happy. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's not. like That's where it came from. It's. like say There was a time when we didn't. win a cup for 9 years, and then we did. FA Cup, and I I watched it at Holloway. and all that kind of stuff, and then. And the next day, it was like there was. all Arsenal fans outside of windows, people like You know when they dusty. vans, they write in stuff on the dusty. vans? It was just everyone was happy. Even if you weren't an Arsenal fan, you. were just happy The area was happy. Yeah. So, it was that was the It was a.

close connection, and then I don't know. It was cool, the fact that I could go to. games. Obviously, the Carling Cup games, cuz all the other games were hard to. get. I went to Marc Overmars. testimonial, actually. But like it was. like It was like I don't know. You just. felt. like a community. Like when the when. thing when they scored high, we'd have. the upper the upper table just rock. Yeah. You think it would break. I said, "There's a bit of danger." You know what. I'm saying? There was just It was just. like And then it's like my mom's friend. used to give me tickets when she went. away. So, then I'd watch like wicked games or. rubbish games, but I was part of it from.

like young. You know what I mean? You. could get a ticket even if you couldn't. afford it. You know what I'm saying? So, it was I just fell in love with it. during that age, yeah. And you had a lot. of happy days, but I think you had a lot. of unhappy days as well. Stressful. I. don't want to put people out there, cuz. this is a public forum, but it was. stress. It was stress. But like. I I can. I'm very I'm very I see like I'm very. child of Wenger. like I can see I'm very. stubborn. Like I very like a lot of. how Arsenal is is in me, I feel like. Cuz it's not it's bigger than just.

football. Like they have a philosophy, do you know what I mean? They have a. style. That era had a style. In this. they had a style. And I just respected. it. Do you know what I'm saying? And I. just And I think it's the guy into a. school in Islington. And the Islington. team Yeah. is the one. And then you're like literally looking. at the sun. in the paper the next day in school and. then it's the Invincibles. And they're talking about your local. team. It change it I think. it makes you think like. Yeah, yeah. We're the guys. At such a formative age, you know what I mean? So. Yeah, yeah. I think there's a bit of.

that. Well, that's where I struggled. because so I always say this that every. Indian person that moved to England in. like the 70s and 80s, I mean my dad, they only support. Manchester United or Liverpool because. those are the big clubs at the time. Like those are the clubs winning. everything. And so I support United. because of that. I never lived in. Manchester. And so I never had a happy day in the. town cuz I still almost have to like shy. away from saying I was a United fan cuz. I lived right in between Highbury and. Spurs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's where I grew up in Wood Green,

like right in between. And so I never. got to go out and celebrate in the town. because I didn't live in Manchester. And. so I always like grew up in fear of like. oh I can't tell anyone what I follow and. like what I do and. Why isn't there a lot of Indian players. in football? I've always wanted to know. that. That's a That's a great question, you. know? And I think it's because a lot of. parents don't you know if if a if an. Indian kid told their parent they wanted. to be a football player, I mean I just. got to look at these two and go what. what do you think what do you think the. parents would have said? What do you. think the parents would have said? Yeah, definitely not. No matter how good they.

were. I was telling Ross to be one of. our mates his I'm calling him out here. His kids like supposedly quite decent at. football, like and I told him yesterday. I was like mate you got to let this kid. chase football like chase the dream and. I don't know if as a culture I think our. parents worked so hard and they wanted. us to have safety And so they didn't. want the kids to do anything that felt. unsafe. So acting would also be a no-go. You don't see that many South Asian. people in acting. I mean, it's growing. now for sure, especially the London. scene, but. acting, media, anything that was.

uncertain or unsafe, Indian parents. generally were like, "No.". They didn't want us to be a part of it. cuz they just wanted us to not have the. struggle they did. And so they wanted us. to feel safety, security, and so if you. can get a good job, right? That makes. sense. If you could get a good job that. paid the bills to care of you, they were. happy. They just wanted you to be safe. That's interesting. I'm interested in. like how cultural um. values dictate what the path are because. the demographic is they should be lots. of. In the like if you look at it as a. demographically, you know what I'm. saying? Yeah. Everyone plays at school.

and then it gets called off. Like I. remember with my parents, too. It's like. they they want you to play, they want. you to be sporty, but they don't want. you to take it that seriously. I had. friends at my school that were amazing. at cricket, like incredible cricket. players that were playing for England. under 21s, England under 18s, and then. went off to be accountants because their. parents wouldn't let them like, you. know, follow the dream. And so. it's it's really interesting seeing who. pushes back through that as well. Like. some people just go, "No, I'm going to. try anyway." And some people fold and. and let it go. But I'm hop- I'm hoping.

it changes. I'm hoping it changes. Great. Yeah. What were What were some. cultural things that you think held you. back? I mean, you've you've talked a bit. about the racism you experienced. You. know, for me when I when I was hearing. about that, I thought that doesn't sound. easy when you add it to the other. bullying and shaming you were talking. about earlier. Like, what was it like. navigating that? Um what specifically? Well, you talked. about what From what I've heard, what. you've talked about is like it took you. a long time to realize that you felt. darker than the people that you were. around.

And so there was this whole and you felt. that they made you feel bad for that. When I got into secondary and I was more. predominantly black school, that's when. I realized that I was darker than the. average black person that I grew up. around or I was around. And then they. would tell me. it was a kind of culture shock, but then. I was darker than a lot of people in my. family. Mhm. So then it was even that. made me feel a bit different. And so then I was just like, "Oh, yeah, I don't really. know what's going on." And then but then. obviously like.

at that age you kind of go through. racism, but you're in a predominantly. black space. You're not you go through. colorism. And then like you go out of it and then. mean like. got good grades and then start going to. a different school like more middle. class upper class school then you deal. with you see racism. Mhm. But you see people do things you're. like, "What's that?" That's weird. What's that? What's weird? You haven't. really felt like you're you've got the. right to go, "Oh, that's that." You know. what I'm saying? Mhm. And you ain't got. no one to talk to that understands. what's happening. Mhm.

Then it just started getting a bit more. the more the more like kind of. more into the workforce the more that. you would face it. Yeah. And the more asleep people are to. it. Mhm. And you got to call it out. What I used to say is that like um cuz. one time like I was getting not getting. roles cuz of acting and that cuz of and. then I was like, "Oh, yeah." I was. making all these excuses and then my. agent at the time was Irish. And he was like, "Yeah, well, that is. cuz you're black.". I said, "What do you mean?" He said, "It's cuz you're black.". He said, "It doesn't have to tell anyone. else. You should be getting It doesn't. matter. You should be black.".

I was like and I was like allowed to. kind of like accept it. And then I would tell people. it was racism and they kind of would. wouldn't believe me. Then when I said, "Oh, my Irish agent. said it." they're like, "Oh, is it?" So. I realized in when you're black. you feel. you don't have the disease. but you feel the dis- symptoms. but you're not allowed to diagnose it. It has to be someone outside of yourself.

that says that's what's happening and. that means it's more valid. You know what I'm saying? Usually the. people that it's come from. Because your seeing is too biased. because you have the symptoms. So that's what I realized about it. Like. you're just going through it you're like. oh right that's kind of nuts. I can't. really even say it. And that's what my. subconscious is going like yeah if I say. it. He's got a chip on his shoulder. That's. why they say he's got a chip on his. shoulder bro. I mean no chips on my. shoulder bro. Like do you know what I. mean? It's nuts. Like it's nuts what. people are saying. It's like it's common. and people are like and so I think.

that's what it is. You're like just. navigating. all of those things. Like so it took me. a long it took me a long time to figure. it out. Yeah. I'm still figuring it out. Yeah I feel like that's something that. you don't ever figure out because it's. like I love how you described that. Never heard it described like that but. the idea of how. because you have the symptoms you can't. be the one to diagnose it but you can't. be the one to express it which feels so. difficult because it's almost like this. is my reality but you need someone else. to validate your reality.

100%. And that is a. that is a really interesting prison to. live in. I could say Jay like what do. you what do you love in life? What do I. love? Like away from like family. Like. what do you love? Football. Football. Imagine my comment. they go hey Jay why do people don't like. football? Yeah and I'll be like yeah I don't know. So when people go why do people don't. like black people? Why would I know? Yeah you don't know. yeah. So then that's what I'm saying it's like. there's something is it's a it's. gaslighting. Yeah yeah. At the same cuz. it's like I don't how am I supposed to.

but then when I initiate it and say this. has happened I'm not believed. Mhm. But then I'm supposed to report about it. when it's happening to me from there to. justify what they're doing. Mhm. It's it's a whole like it doesn't really. make sense what's happening. If I go. this is happening no one that's not true. and then they they'll have a whole. lawyer or someone like a professor that. has a whole dossier and then now if he. says it cuz he wrote 80 pages of waffle. they believe him. Yeah. But I told you.

You're just saying that his word his. word is worth more than mine. And that. in that is racism. I'll say this. It's not worth it. It's just not worth. anything to you. And I had to really. learn that my word is worth something to. me. To me. And so then like I just I just. move like that. So I just don't really. like kind of engage with the narratives. cuz it's just people just making up. things that protect what they like about. it. Cuz you only things are kept because. they like something about it. Cuz if.

they didn't they'd get rid of it. They'd change the culture. You see how. they change other things. Yeah. You. change the culture. There's something. that it protects I feel. Yeah, I find when I'm talking to you I. find that you've kind of. really worked on like making peace with. how you feel about yourself. And and how. you feel about your views and how you. feel about your art. Like there seems to. be this. autonomy and independence in saying as. you were saying earlier. even when you were given a bad grade you. were like, "Nah, nah, but I know this is.

good.". And even what you were saying before. where you were like, "It gave you space. to fail in private because you were. like, 'Nah, nah, I know that I'm working. on myself.'" So it feels like you've. really worked on having this internal. peace. How hard is that as your career. kind of does the opposite, right? So. it's like you're getting more and more. focused on giving yourself peace, which. is an amazing skill like I'm I'm loving. to see it on display and I know. everyone's going to appreciate seeing. it. And at the same time it's like. you're you're doing bigger and bigger. things. So you're more and more exposed.

to other people's opinions. How have you. managed to or or how are you managing to. continue to kind of hold on to that core. of that 9-year-old and that 15-year-old? I mean like I think I always just have. it like it's just mine. Yeah. So it's. not something but I think. it's like what happens is is how I I've. done things that causes a ruckus or. chaos. In my sphere. And so like you just got to accept that. you're a bit chaotic. You know what I mean? It's like It's. like It's like.

there's something That doesn't mean. that's you, but there's something there. that you have to look at. If it's nuts. like that, you have to look at it. Cool. like. What Where is that? Like cool, what's. that? And then you get closer to being like. cool with it or then it will quiet down. But there's something that I'm not. looking at. If it goes a bit mad or you. care too much what people think. Do you. know what I'm saying? It's like you have. to accept that. Just go all right, cool. What Why is that? What's happening. there? I feel like. But yeah, no, it's It's been Last few. years has been It's been wild. But like.

it's been like. I've done it in a very quiet way. But. it's been wild It's been wild in the. sense of what happens and and stuff like. that. But that's what happens at the. like the narratives that I've been a. part of are powerful. And like and decisions I've made to like. stand on things that I believe in or. even basically like a lot of the I know. what I like. And I like what I like. If. people don't like it, I'm like. Yo, you're entitled I would want to If I. care, I would want to know why you don't. like it. But I like what I like and I I. stand on decisions I'm I make and I. think then that.

spreads. I don't know, maybe it's that's. a bit different to what how people. handle their careers in this day and. age. So, I don't know, but that's just. me guessing. I don't have a big. landscape on whatever decision people. are making. Of course. Yeah, what does. it feel like to see some of those like. 9-year-old, 15-year-old dreams come. true? Like what does that feel like in. reality? Like what does that actually. look like? Calm. Normal. I knew it. Um I know it.

Like. if I Minute I get the idea, I'm like all. right, cool. There. Boom. That's when I. get excited. All right, we on. Now let's work to it. So, when you're. working to it, you when you get there, it costs so much. You know? It costs so. much. If you want something that like. you really want, the price is so high. that you're just a bit like, "Ah, cool.". Mhm. You're not seeing it as. for the sheen that you saw in the. perspective at 15, at 9. You're seeing it, all right, that cost.

me this, that cost me that. I had to wake up 4:00 a.m. here, I had. to do this night, that I had to grind. here, I had to do this night, shoot, I. had to do this night. You're seeing the. cost it takes. You're feeling the cost. it takes. So, when you land and arrive. All right, cool, there was turbulence. Mhm. Oh, you got it. I did? You just did. Yeah. what I'm saying? And then and then but. the excitement comes from like feeling. like you can do it before you see all of. it. If that makes sense. Like the full. kind of picture, cuz you're only seeing. the good, that's why you go there.

But then it every like everything's. balanced. That's all it is. It's not. like it's bad, it's just like it's. everything. Yeah. Yeah, I love I love. that statement you just said, like you. only see the good, that's why you go. there. And then when you go there, you see all. of it, but you realize that all of it. was part of getting you there. It was. never possible to get there without. everything else. Like it was never. part of it you you're only seeing the. good cuz like like entices you. It's. like what people say about sex, like how. sex is like a way for your genes to keep. going. Mhm. Like it's a way It's like a. create The body is created this organism.

to keep going, so then you have this. pleasure out of it. Or So, then it's. like. like it's kind of like, "Oh, you got Ah, yeah." And then when you go in there, I'm not I'm not saying sex is bad. Like. sex is great. What are you going to You go You go in. there full of it. You go in there full. of it. I find that when you go on those. journeys, yeah, there's something about. the badness in it that you have to face. in yourself. And it's whether you take. the lesson, and if you don't take that. lesson. you will meet it again. Mhm. You will. meet it again until it lets you go. And.

then when you meet and accept it, sometimes you realize what I've realized. that like, "Ah, I don't even want that. good now.". Mhm. Part of it was me figuring out. something in me that I didn't really. know that I wanted to figure out. Mhm. You know what I'm saying? But like. that was probably the majority of it. Mhm. You know what I'm saying? And. the sex impulse tells you go there. Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? It's. like, do that. When did you get You said. when you have an I'm going to do a. little bad impersonation, but you like. when you get the idea it's like boom. So, where's the. where's the Definitely from Wood Green.

Yeah, yeah, definitely from Wood Green. Where's the. When did you get the idea for the. kitchen? And like because I know that. project's taken a long time to come to. life, right? It's like 8 years or. something, right? Seven? Uh 10. 10, yeah, all right. 10 years I got the idea. in a barber shop in Holloway. I sit in the barber shop and then like. these guys were talking about. taking stuff, like these heists, a. million pound heists and this is Danny. Ocean and I were talking. But they were. talking about actually doing this. Yeah, yeah, they were just chatting. I'm. like, these guys are talking. And then. like this I know it's something was on.

the TV and I was like, yeah, that's the. that's us that's us. Let's do that. And then I was like, right, that's it. And then in that. moment I was like, I'd love to see that. film. Of people like going into like diamond. jewel stores and like robbing stuff. I. was like, I'd love to see that. Just in. the barber shop chilling cuz like my. barber just. kept on putting appointments before me. even though I made an appointment. So, I'll be sitting in there the whole half. a day. And then like so then I was like, oh, I'd love to see that. And then like and then I never saw him. again. Ever. And I was like, what happened to. him? And he's like, yeah, he went.

And then like. I was like. I couldn't shake it. I was like. it was thrilling, but there was a cost. And I was like I'm 22. in a barber shop. Like I chill and I was like there's. something about that. Then I did a bit. more research and I realized that like, oh, they're getting paid like. they're paying they're stealing millions. of pounds worth of diamonds, but they're. getting paid 200 pound. I was like. something in that. That says where we're at in this world.

and what's going on in London. Where they don't even know the value of. what they're robbing. They think it's. worth 200. And they're willing to risk their life. and their freedom for it. I don't to what's what's going on there. And just kept digging. So, I just look over there and then then. I'm a like where I grew up like how we. grew up like obviously do like the. professional jobs like you do like. Harry and Paul and the psycho villains. and all of that. But then I would have. like a whole other career where we just. make YouTube videos and we just kill. with the people and just make stuff.

So, then there there was a time when. like cuz I wrote on skins and stuff and. there was a time when they were like oh. everyone wanted to do meetings and talk. about what my ideas were and I was like. I don't I'm tired of these coffees, man. Like And so then I was like all right. and I got. the team together. um director and a producer and that that. we's that we's building with and then. like. and then I was like all right. let's just make it. So, I asked my barber. um he's in the film actually. I know. like yeah he's in the film. He's in the. film and then I asked him. Is he a barber in the film? No no no. he's just in the film constantly. He's.

one of them. He's one of the residents. He's one of the main residents. But this. is why this is why so I went to the. barber he he closed on Wednesdays. So, I. was like all right. bro like like let's use your shop cuz I. want basically it started as Reservoir. Dogs in a barber shop. All right. Yeah. So, then I was like all right like can. we use your shop to shoot? He said yeah. of course of course of course of course. Then I like paying people. He said I. have a free I was like no man like. please. And then he was like obviously didn't. have a budget. I think we like 200 pound. each and we just shot something. We got new actors in it so I didn't need. a crew.

And then like and he was like don't cut. me out of this. Don't cut me out of this. I was like no. bro I got you. He said no when it blows. keep me in. I need to stay involved. I. was like no bro I got you I got you. So, that's how it kind of started and then. it evolved. Mhm. It kept on evolving. from then. Wow. I love that. I love. hearing how like ideas come about and I. appreciate that you have that memory. Did you actually sit down with people. who'd done those heists or did you meet. some people who'd actually gone through. with it? the guys I met the guy I met a couple. guys that did stuff like that. And it was just like I think I went.

there and it was like pretty it was. pretty simple on the actual heist but. it's like for me it was about the. mentality. Mhm. Which I knew I. understood. But it was like kind of being around the. people and understanding just like. hanging with them. Hanging with them and the people that. are like in the news and that's why I. said I chilled with them. And it was like this is that and the. other, but they I think. them kind of guys like. they. we understand each other cuz I kind of. go into the industry like all right, listen, I'm just doing what I want. Like I'm just going to go in there and I.

think that's how that's the energy that. they have. Um but yeah, no, they were they're. interesting people. Well, what did you. learn about them? Do you feel they were. just they're just trying to survive or. they're trying to or they're sold a. dream or what's kind of motivating. them to do that? I don't know. I think. they just they just do it cuz like it's. just what part of the operation is what. they do, is what they know, is their. reality, is their it's that's what they. know. That's how they've chose to fight. whether they've been the older brother. or been the only boy in the family or. whatever the reason is that they've gone.

down that path. They did it and they. have a level of intelligence that means. they've been able to organize an. operation. And like talk to people and. communicate and this and that and like I. like they they're like but that's. they're just doing that in this realm. You know what I'm saying? It's like. I found I found how they think more. interesting than what they do. And. that's what I wanted to explore in this. It's like. exposing the thought and the principles. behind how they live and what their. values are. And why and how it's connected to.

and if they people are really true to. it. So basically like someone like. Staples in the film, he doesn't do anything criminal to per. se, yeah. But it's like he has the. mentality. and the values. Do you know what I'm. saying? It's like. he's this guy he thinks the enemy isn't. the other postcode or the other block. The enemy is the system. And he engages with them how he how we. would see a a kid like that engage with. the other block. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the.

postcode. He goes it's you lot And he. just engages him like that. But that's a powerful energy. It's a. powerful mentality. It's a leader. Yeah. So, I kind of was just interested in. that and how those people think and how. that can be how can motor and an. a kind of like a cultural identity. Mhm. And I felt that kind of like London had. that energy of like, "Bro, we do what we. want." Like, if you're really from. there. If you're really from there. And I feel. you have that energy, but you're just a. monk in that. You know what I mean? You're like zen.

But you're like, "Hey, it's me." But. it's not really like but you're doing it. for good things, but it's not I think. London it's a I always felt London was a. special city. Yeah, I do, too. A very. special city, but our sometimes our. humility Mhm. and the. class ceiling, Mhm. yeah, stops us from like. doing what we want to do. Mhm. Like. people are like, "There's a glass. ceiling." And I'm like, "It's made of. glass.". You could break it. Is that how like it's made of get. something? Yeah. You know what I mean?

And I feel like what I was around was. basically what I grew up around was that. mentality. Mhm. We're going to make it. work. We're going to make it happen. And. not in an arrogant way, we just cuz we. want it to happen. Yeah. We just we mean. it. It's sincerity. Mhm. You mean it. Like we just want it to happen. Yeah. And like I mean it's more than us. And I. feel like London and then I researched. about London, about the Blitz and how. the mentality of like. um when London was bombed. Mhm. for the first time, how like people were scared and then. after it they were like, "Oh, we.

survived." Yeah. And how it built a. resilience in the city. Mhm. Like a kind. of resilience that I feel like it's. still here. Mhm. Like because of the. class system and that that keep calm, carry on mentality, we kind of squash it. and like. like a very like regional with how with. our. dreams. Mhm. We think, "Oh, yeah, if we. got this, then that's enough." Because. said person said that's all you can get. Mhm. Who is this person? That's how I feel. Who Who are you Mhm. to limit me?

That doesn't make sense to me. Yeah. Do. you think people are scared to dream or. is it scared to or they're accepting a. limit or what what how would you. articulate. the one of the big moments I had, one of. the big breakthroughs I feel in a script. was like I randomly like So like I did. Black Mirror when I was 22. 4 years later I like it blew in America, yeah. Yeah, it's huge. It's still I mean. It's not It went nuts in America. Netflix wasn't didn't wasn't a thing. So I did that I did this TV show on the. and then. I did a thing that crossed over in. America. So I was in New York.

And then like um. it was years after I did it. It was Mayweather Pacquiao fight around. then. So I I had a photo shoot. So I. stayed at a photo shoot and then I was. like oh I've got to watch the fight. here. So I stayed in this flat in. Bed-Stuy and I was chilling. And then I was just a I was in New York. Like I was in New York. Going to I went. to the church, went to the brunch. I was. going everywhere. I was I was rolling. with to the parties, went to everywhere. And then I was like and I was I don't. know I was walking around and there's a. massive poster of Biggie in Brooklyn.

And I looked at it I was like. they really loved themselves. This is someone that's come from there. and they've pushed that. I don't think. none of them would we wouldn't see our. heroes of now. on that pedestal on that platform. We. wouldn't see them as. who they are majority of the time. I said huh. I came back home. Now I used to like go Cali Pool. But I used to run from my place to go. Cali Pool. I used to get a lot of things. from my jogs.

So I'd run there. It's a 10-minute jog. and I would look around I'm like. it's the same demographic as New York. Literally same demographic. What's the. difference? Why does New York feel like New York New. York and then London feels. And I was running running around I was. like these guys don't believe in. themselves. I'm going to believe in myself. And I think my career has shifted but. also I think the. I just feel I want that for London. Yeah. I want that. We're global. We're playing. world-class rent. Mhm. I want. world-class results from this city. Do.

you know what I'm saying? So, like, but. for whatever reason we're just like, "All right, no, no, no." It's like. I just don't I don't believe in that. I. don't believe in that. And I feel like. New York is just decided Mhm. with this. And I think if London has decided with. this, I think everything will flourish. And I think a lot of it came from that. If we're being honest about who we are. as opposed to. kind of hiding and kind of suppressing. and kind of this keep calm Harry carry. on sheen. that we're pretending to be. Where we're actually as a culture very.

quite cocky. Mhm. Or sure. about who we are what we stand for. Even. the fact that like when you grow up in. London like you really still stay. hanging out with your friends that you. grew up with. Yeah. Do you know what I'm. saying? It's like it's your because. that's where it is. You know what I'm. saying? And and um. that's a level there's a level of. conviction and values Mhm. that I feel. we're not honest about publicly. And I. want I want it more I want it more for. London. Yeah, I love that, man. I I. relate to so much of that as someone who. considers myself through and through. London born and raised, university,

school, everything. All my best friends. are here. You know, and obviously I don't live. here anymore, but when I'm back it's. like to me. yeah, London raised me and you have that. kind of affinity to this city in such a. special way. But yeah, I I feel similar to you that. I feel often people think if you if you. dream bigger or you think beyond or you. are pursuing the limitless, it's almost. seen as less than. It's seen as like, "No, no, no, don't don't try that. Like.

that's that's not worth it. It's not. worth it." Or when we feel we have to. present ourselves to others, we're like, "No, no, you shouldn't even have to do. that. You should It should just happen.". And it's like, "Well, no, sometimes it. takes a bit of work and convincing and. pushing the boundaries as you're saying. as well." And so I can relate to relate. to all of that. And and I feel the same. way. I feel the same way. London is. fully global and London has so much. incredible talent in all these different. industries. And I think it needs to be. shared globally, too. We don't need to. stay just here. Yeah, and I don't I.

don't think so. I think I I think we've. got a lot to say. And we've got interesting perspective. And I just want to. I want more of it. Like a lot of time I. do things I was like, "Come on, then.". And I may mess it up, but at least I at. least I went for it. At least I went for it. And I and I believed in it. And then. hopefully someone after me refine it. So then I can learn something. And I'll. go for it. Like do you know what I mean? It's like that's the whole point. That's. the whole point. Like just go for it. It's not about you. It's about your. ideas.

What you can hear and what you can let. through. That's what this is, man. And so. what you doing? Like what are you. listening to? What radio station you. listen to? What ideas you letting out? That's how I see it. Yeah. How do you. get I'm intrigued I loved how you talked. about how the idea for the kitchen. formed. How do you get curious. and. critique your own ideas? Cuz I'm sure. you have ideas popping at you all the. time. How do you kind of like filter it down. to be like, "Oh, this is an idea that I.

really love." versus "I'm going to park. that. I'm going to take that from here.". Like walk me through what's happening in. your mind cuz I feel like when you do. have a idea that you're sure of and you. go, "Yeah, that's the one." It seems so. clear, but I'm guessing you have a. million ideas before you get that. It's it's it's it's clear when you know. it's clear. Yeah, that's what I mean. I'm thinking that time in that before. the. true clarity, you can't it's like. you just can't shake it off. Mhm. You can't stop thinking about it. You. can't stop thinking about it. You can't. stop thinking about it. You keep going. You keep going. Keep going.

And then it goes, "Ah, I got I got to do. it." And what I really truly I have. there's loads of ideas, but like but. then I read like like I loads of ideas, but then like someone ends up doing it. Mhm. Like do you know what I mean? It's. like and then you're like and I when. someone ends up doing it, I get really. happy. You're like ah cool I don't have. to do it. They did it. Like I don't I don't I don't see it as. mine. It seems what I hear and what I. can see. Like I think No Gimmicks said in the. interview one time like Desert Island. Disc and that. He said like they asked him about like I. can't remember the war one of them songs.

he made. They were like what's it like? He said. it's like fishing. And you go in there by the shore and. you're just waiting and you're waiting. and you're just what? You feel me or like or Michael Jackson. described it one time where like he was. saying how like he was writing. He's writing a song and they were like. oh Michael like go bed like you're. tired. He's like I can't. He said. Michael go bed. Like can't. Like why? He was like I can't because if I go bed. God will give the song to Prince. And they like you like you get it. Like. it's not like.

it's not mine. It's what. my expertise, my hours, my perspective, my. I may have an idea but I'm not the right. um. I haven't had the right upbringing to. really actualize it. Like it's all these. factors that come to. you letting it through. Do you know what. I'm saying? So like I can see things. like oh yeah that's a great idea but I'm. like I'm not that's not. I'm not sure if I'm able to give that. So a lot of time when I act and that how. I define it a lot of times is there's.

stuff I want to say and there's stuff I. want to help people say. Acting is me helping someone say. something. Because I'm like oh I really want to say. that too but I haven't got time. To like. Do you know what I'm saying? So I'm like. ah cool I'll just. I'll help you say it cuz I believe in. you. So like ah well this is like ah. okay now stuff I realized oh I'm. I am the one that is supposed to say. this. I can say this. And then you have. to check yourself and go how much are. you thinking about yourself? How big is. your mentality? You like it could be. limiting or like you mean is like. there's a whole process. It that's why.

it's taken me time but I think. when I did Skins. when I wrote on Skins. I had a thing like well in my career. that was like, all right, cool. Do I. want to be a great singer or do I want. to sing great songs? Yeah, and I think my career shifted. where I was like, I want to sing great. songs. And then I realized in that. process you become a great singer. So, when Skins when you're inheriting. characters, you're singing a great song, essentially. And then I realized in this. process I've had to learn how to make a. song. You know what I'm saying? How do I have. to create a character? How do I have to. create relationship design? How do I. have to create structure? Like, you have.

to learn all that in order to get to the. standard that I like. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's not. you can release it. But I wouldn't cuz I just I have a. higher standard for myself and the stuff. I like. And I want. me and my friends to like what I make or. what I help someone make. I I love what you said, man. And it's so. interesting like I'm when I'm listening. to someone speak on the podcast, I'm always just trying to like sense. that what energy kind of connects. everything they're saying. And every.

time you speak and every time the way. you answer stuff is. is counterintuitive in a good way. because I hear peace and calm through. all of it. Like even for you to just say. right now that when someone makes. something that I had an idea about, you accept that with peace that oh, that's not my idea. It wasn't meant to. be mine. Where a lot of us see someone make an. idea come that we maybe one day had. randomly and we're like, they did my. idea. Like, I wish, you know, I could. have been the person or whatever. We. often feel a bit of competitiveness, comparison, and you have actually the.

opposite where it's a sense of peace and. like, actually that's great for them. Good for them. they made it cuz I want. to see it. I want to see it. Like, like I want to. see it. Like, and it's that it's the. reality of like, oh yeah, to be to where. like I'm the one to make the idea in. that certain kind of level that. costs a lot. Like, so if someone does it and they. weren't able to pay the price, I'm going. to sit front row and be a fan of it. Do. you know what I'm saying? And like, back. then I'll buy the DVD. Do you know what. I'm saying? I I would like I would. support it cuz I'm just happy it exists. I'm just happy I just want things to.

exist. But I think the world that we. kind of come into is really fake. And then everyone just said, "This is. this. This is that." I'm like, "This is. people decided that.". I just decided something different. And. I think other people just decide. something different. And and I love. seeing people make decisions. I know you I know you know this and I. hope you know this. That is beautiful, man. That That is That mindset is is. like top notch. That's it. That's. another level of thinking. Um I wouldn't. see it that way. But I hear you. I. accept that. I'm learning how to say. thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm just saying it to you. I I love that. because I think if we could all live in. that way where we could all be happy for. what bringing things into existence. Yeah, man. Whether it's brought by us or. brought by others. That's That's a. beautiful state to live in. To make. something that doesn't exist to exist is. incredible. Mhm. I think it's insane. Yeah. So I used to I used to I used to. have this mentality back in the day. people used to go like I was like I. don't know if I was not saying it or. whatever. But like but like be like if. someone said, "Oh, you can't do this.". I'm like, "A man and a woman have sex, yeah? And they make a baby. That is so.

incredible." Mhm. It's insane. It's the I don't know what I'm saying. Like I just Like I just Don't you think. that's the most insane That's really. difficult to have Like it's really. difficult. For us it's it's a really. difficult thing. It's a difficult. process. It's all these other thousand. guys that are trying to get in there. too. You're coming in like hey, I'm here. Like I just I just It's I don't know. I. I It makes me. I celebrate.

simple things. Like I remember at at. school I used to look up in the sky. I'm. like. I can't lie. This interview is making me. realize I was a special kid. But I look at the sky and go, "Bro, like. ain't it sick that planes can fly?". Yeah. But that is sick. "It's so heavy." Yeah. It's so heavy. There's so many people. There's so many. bags. What's going on? Like I would just go to this playground. and be like. "What's going on here? This is This is. wild." And I just was for I just used to. just think that's one of the most. amazing things ever. Like, that's why I.

always wanted to fly on the Concorde and. I never got round to it cuz it got done. by the time I got there, but. even though I fast you there was a. faster one? Mhm. Wow. Like, you know. what I mean? It's just like. Yeah, to marvel at It's a wow because. it's common it doesn't mean it's still. not wow. Yeah, yeah. And I think because there's a lot of it. people then disregard it's specialness. because there's a lot of it. Yeah. I. just don't do that. Yeah, really yeah we've lost that. experience of awe. and fascination when you have things. that surprise you because everything. around you is making the most difficult.

things look easy. Yeah. Like, AI, VR, like I mean today you know you could go. on and on. Like, everything's becoming. so accessible. Yeah, and the ed out the. ed out of this kitchen. we we call it is land. When you're staying in is. Yeah, yeah. this is what is like. and then like so when you're in is land. that is amazing cuz that. a big metal box that has 300 people with. like 800 kilos of luggage. going from. San Francisco to London is incredible.

Mhm. That is amazing. And I just kind of I always go I where. am I? I'm in is land. Am I there? Am I there? Because then you're in just perception. land or whatever you think it is or. whatever your past pain or whatever it. is with this crap. Mhm. No crap is valid. But like you should. stay in that. Yeah. is It's powerful. With your. mindset and the amount of calm and peace. there is in your life internally. internally. You're you're you're you're thinking. like a monk honestly. I swear.

Yeah, because it's it's the mindset. piece man. It's it's the mindset. I'm. not guessing right. It's the mindset. piece like. you know, when I asked you. every question I've asked you the things. that have come out of your mind your. mouth. peace and calm. And it's come naturally. It's not like. you're trying to be Zen. Like, it's just. coming out cuz that's where you're. trying to live. And so that's what it. means like in the modern day where you. know, we're not trying to live a. particular monk life in that sense. externally, but there's a sense of peace.

within. There's a sense of calm within. And I love seeing it in other people. I. always say, one of the other people I saw it in. during an interview was Kobe Bryant. Like, when I sat with him and I. interviewed him, he had so much gravitas and so much calm. and zen around him. And he wasn't. spewing like verses or trying to sound, you know, spiritual. He wasn't He wasn't. doing that. Same way as you're not doing. that. But, it was a natural part of that. about their presence. Yeah, I appreciate that. a So, I I I I respect it. I love seeing. it in other people. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. I mean that. Um, I want to dive into uh and I love I.

love this idea about what is and what. isn't and what could have been, what. should have been, what what would have. been. And a lot of us live in that what. if. If someone's listening right now, and they're listening to you, and I'm. I'm I know this for a fact. Anyone who's. listened to you this far today, if. you're still listening to the episode, which I know you are, I know that people are going to be. moved. I know people are going to be. inspired. I know there's a lot of people. going to be going, "Oh my god, I didn't. know he'd been through all of that.". And, you know, like skins and like just. writing and the challenges and the.

stress, what would you like people to know about. you that maybe you think they don't know. or or understand about you that maybe. you've never really been able to talk. about or share or or express? I don't. know, cuz I'm not I don't I struggle. with like my perception. Like, I don't. really cuz. cuz a lot of the fame. it's not like I chose to be this famous. It kind of came as a product of the. work, and it was a surprise product. Like, I did a film and then.

a year later I was at the Oscars. I. mean, so it was like. it was like, "Whoa.". Um, I'm not really I think I get the. vibe where I'm like, "People don't get. me. in America, anyway.". And then in England, I think people do. get me. But, they still cuz they get me, they go. they don't understand how I've done it. Um I don't I'm not really I'll keep it. real I've learned how to not be as. invested. in how people perceive me. Mhm. But. I just not invested in it cuz then. you're consistently.

Yeah, I mean it. Like that curated like. I've been there. It's not I'm not. sitting there like I'm more holier than. thou. Like I've been there I've been in. it trying to. trying to look a certain way. You know. what I mean? Like I I was just like well. was I happy or not? So like I don't know about if. I from you if you want to go and ask. questions and that I'll be open to you. and I'll I'll be able to elaborate. I. would love to. Do you know what I'm. saying? But for me I don't go like. cuz every if I really engage with people. mentally I could not get to where I've. got to. Yeah. Yeah. You could not get to where.

I've got to. So as a lot of that that a. lot of that is in that. Of that kind of being so like. That's what I think. Do you know what. I'm saying? But. I'm open. No. No. No. as well. Do you know what I'm saying? No. No. No. I I hear what you're saying. and and I don't I don't uh. you know, I think that it's it's tricky. because you're right that you can either. get so lost in cultivating and crafting. and curating. how you're perceived and then still. people won't perceive you that way even. if you do all of that.

Yeah. Or you can kind of let it go and and it. kind of flows in its own direction and. then you've made peace with that which. which I think is probably the healthier. option because at least you can live and. breathe. I'll give you an example, right? So I. was. I'm in my life I didn't really but I. can't came in this game like I didn't. know watch films. I watched like Batman. and Robin. I said I'm not really I'm. just living life. Do you know what I'm. saying? I'm a kid. about Val Kilmer? Yeah. Yeah. They took. him like they took him to George. Clooney. Do you know what I'm saying? You looking like that like just I'm. watching life like films that come out. You know what I mean? So.

when I got into the industry it was like. talking about this art house from this. art house from this this this this that. and the other. And I remember HMV had. this deal where you can black buy £1 £2. films. So I'll just buy loads of films and I. would just watch all the people that. people spoke about that. Like the legends like Mel Street, Daniel. Day Lewis, like. Shane Meadows, Paddy Considine, like all. these people that people were like. around that time around. 07 that people just obsessed about. But what time I'm watching and then I. would go, "Oh, like all right, cool. I. watch the acting performances. All. right, okay, that's.

you're clearly really good at what you. do. But. so what? Like what for? You know what I mean? And I realized I. cared more about that than how great you. were at. something that was aimless. or purposeless. Then I realized great didn't mean. anything. Being really great at your job, being. really good didn't mean It didn't mean. it It had no emotion to it. So I said to. myself, "This is really great.". And then I obviously I'd watch all those.

That's those films and I went for that. And then And what happens when you go. for that is a bit of a prison. Then you. watch your work back and you're just. critiquing yourself. You're not enjoying it. You're just. critiquing, critiquing in your head in. your head in your head in your head. Then I had to go, "Yo, I can't keep. doing this. I can't Every time I do a. job just kind of. Cuz I'm always I always used to be like. improv like Think about the whole week. I'll do an improv and the whole week I. should have done this. I should have. done that. I should have done this this. All right, next week I'm going to do. this. And then And I was like, "This isn't.

This isn't enjoyable." And then I got to. a place where I was like, "Oh, don't try. and be good. Try and be honest.". Like. What I say truth is. what happened. Honestly is how you feel. about what happened. So that's how I. felt like I was just like, "Yo, like. this is how I feel. This is how I feel. like." A minute I go for something. that's honest. I'll do a something at work and then a. year later you watch it back and it's. you in a completely different space that. you was a year ago and you wouldn't have. done it that way. But I just go.

That's how I felt. Mhm. That's the. honesty at that point. That's how I felt. That's where I was. at. If I can't it's not now. Time is as. important as you. Like it's not like the time is there. The time like. the time where you was at got you there. Yeah, I know a lot of jobs it's like I'm. the best person for the job after the. job. Mhm. You know what I'm saying? It's like and. you have to make peace. Cuz the amount you grew cuz you learned. how to do it. And now you go, "Ah, if. you give me now. and you it's it's like a annoying thing.

to be in. So, but it's like you have to. go like that's how I felt. I was honest. If I was honest, I can always walk away. and go put my head up like that's how I. felt. Yeah. And so, that's what I go for. like in terms of everything. I go, "Yo, that's where I'm at, man. That's how I. feel, man. That's like it's And then I. yeah and then if I say something. different 4 years later like, "Oh, you. know what?" Yeah, I grew in it. Cuz it's. not it's like it's like. I went through something and then my. mentality and my something shifted. I. changed my mind. So, it's not it's not.

like That's that's how really what I. engage with now is just going, "Yo, like. any other like micromanagement of my my. perception. Ah, I'm too meticulous Mhm. for me to. really go in that lane. Cuz then I will. really micromanage it. So, then I was. like, "Well, what's Just be real." And. then and people that get it will get it. People that don't, that's what they're. supposed to do. You know what I mean? Yeah. I I I mean I'm glad I asked that. question cuz I love where you took it. and I think. what I'm intrigued by by what you said.

is what is what are the projects that. you're now and I don't mean specifics. Like I don't need you to name stuff that. you're working on, but what is it that. you want your work to mean today as you. are writing, as you're producing, as. you're now in charge of the story? Obviously, you've been selective over. roles you've played, but I mean now that. you're telling your own stories, writing. your own stories, producing them, which. you've been doing since day one, but now. doing it at this level, what do you want. it to mean? What do you want people to. feel? What are the things you'd like. people to. it to be failure.

I don't think I can. it, yeah? Because that will rob them. from. their experience, right? But what I want. people to feel about the stuff I make, what I write, and produce, and direct, and anything I do in my life, yeah? Is the goal. someone to take it in, call their friend and go, "Hey, you seen. this? This is mad." Like. and then and then and they get. points from their friend.

because they. have shared something Yeah. that You. know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You. know what I'm saying? It's like you know. there's a song that's amazing and you're. like, "This is mad." Yeah. And then now. forever. You're going to rate that. Like you're going, "Oh, I introduced you. to that." You know what I'm saying? Like. you feel like, yeah, like I got it like. I want my. work to feel like that. I want it to. feel to share it to There's an. excitement. There's like. There's a crackle to it. Like I want. there to be like. I want it to be shareable cuz I do think. sometimes a lot of work is there's some. stuff to share and there's stuff you.

don't. Yeah. It could be as good as. great as you want. There's stuff that. you want to share and stuff you don't. want to share. There's a lot of. depressing stuff I do not want to share, but they are excellent. It's incredible. But you just have. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And you. take it what you take into for whatever. reason. And I do love the fact that. people go, "Yo, this is This makes me. feel something. This makes me This makes. me want to move." You know what it is? You know what it is? I want to make. music that makes people want to dance. Mhm. And how I What I mean by that is. like kind of like you can't. intellectualize why someone dances.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm. saying? It's just they do, they move. Mhm. You know what I'm saying? And I. want to just move people. Move people to. go, "I'm going to do that." Or I want to. do this. Or. like I want to share this. I want to I. want to There's something that comes. after it. That means you've That's bigger than any. adjective. Mhm. You know what I'm saying? Cuz a lot of. times a lot of people's feelings are. just adjectives. The stuff that you say on Twitter. Mhm. They're not stuff that's what you're. actually feeling. Mhm. So that's that's where That's where I'm. at really. Great answer, man. Great answer. I The. reason why I love that is when I start.

when I first made my first ever video. and people said, "Why did you make it?". I said, "Cuz I wanted someone to send it. to their friend and say, 'That's what we. were talking about.'". Yeah, that's that's me. Like, "That's what we were talking. about." And I didn't know how to We. didn't know how to But that that video. helped explain Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. what. I was going through. But Daniel, you've. been amazing. I've got a final five. We. do this with every guest. These final. five have to be answered in one word to. one sentence maximum. Yeah. Yeah. So, Daniel, these are your final five. The. first question is, "What is the best. advice you've ever heard, received, or. given?".

I've got one professionally, but I've. got one personally. I used to reject it. as a kid this advice, but now I'm older. I get the more I'm realizing how much is. my mom is. always saying everything matters. Mhm. Everything every little matters. And I would let I wouldn't focus on. details. I wouldn't focus on details. And then. now I'm older I'm realizing the detail. isn't about the detail. This is about. what it says about you. Mhm. And how. easily you can show up on everything. else if you just practice simple. details.

And she goes, "Everything little. matters." She says, "Everything little. matters.". I mean that. I love that. That's great, man. We've. never had that and I fully agree. All. right, question number two. What is the. worst advice you've ever heard, received, or given? I can't remember specific, but I can. remember how it made me feel and how I. reacted to it in my head when they said. it. When they Basically it was just. saying, "Accept less." Mhm. Basically what the principle was. And I. think I just erase it when people say. that. Like, "Oh, you know you're not supposed. to like, you know, this or.

that person deserve" Basically they're. basing that person deserves more. Mhm. I. think everyone deserves more. Mhm. I love that. Do you know what I mean? It's not like I just believe So, if you. decide that you want more then you can. get it. If you don't, then you chill. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It's not. like and I feel like when people are. communicating subconsciously. communicating a hierarchy Mhm. that they. win out of that doesn't benefit me. I was going to chat in rubbish. But like. I can't it's that is I think it's. acceptless. Mhm. Love that. All right,

question number three. What's the first. thing you do when you wake up and the. last thing you do when you go to bed? I pray. Mhm. What's the prayer? Just thanks. Thanks. I really I got into that. I used to be with my mom as a kid. She made me read the Bible every night. She used to read the proverb of the day. You know they got like 31 chapters in. there. I used to read it as a kid. And then like I don't know I got into a. place I was just like nah man. There was. one time I had to audition and I really.

wanted this audition and I weren't. really on that. And then I really wanted this audition. I just prayed. Who am I chatting to? What is going on here? Like. I was in New York. I remember I really. wanted it. I was like why did I feel to. do that? And I just ignored it and just kind of. carried on with my life. It was like. 2016 2017 I was like. And then like I think I got into a place. and I was like you know what. it makes me just stay Mhm. Yeah man. Thanks. Focus on what I thank. And like what I'm.

grateful for. Mhm. And then like humility. Cuz my ego can get wild sometimes so. teaches me how to just chill. And then. and listen to myself. Yeah. I think. God's in you. I don't think it's God's. above you. It's not big brother. Mhm. Like in 84. Mhm. I love that. I'm going. to take that as question four cuz that's. followed up fifth and final question. Uh if you could create one law in the. world that everyone had to follow, what. would it be? If you have been proven in one way shape.

or form. to hate someone or group of people. your punishment is to live with them for. a year. Mhm. Anyone. Even like Twitter hate anything. Go on then. You do your That's like 9-5. or whatever, boom, boom, boom. You go live with them for a year. And. it's being there. I think that's just off top. I don't. really like. Yeah, that's a great answer, man. Yeah, I like that a lot. Yeah, that's that's.

that's what that is. I like that you went there. It's a great. answer. It's dope. Yeah, appreciate it. I know. Appreciate you, man. My guy. Thank you, man. If you loved this episode, you'll. really enjoy my episode with Selena. Gomez on befriending your inner critic. and how to speak to yourself with more. compassion. My fears are only going to. continue to show me what I'm capable of. The more that I face my fears, the more. that I feel I'm gaining strength, I'm. gaining wisdom, and I just want to keep.

doing that.